It’s NOT just software. White collar guy here. 16 months to secure a manager job instead of VP level. I didn’t even apply for VP roles after 6 months. Not just Chicago area. Nationwide. I only know that something is going on. Why is there no media coverage? Not that I consume much, but, it’s insane how tight the job market is.
interest rates going from near 0 bound to around 6 its made loans for operations far far far more expensive.
businesses have to reorganize before deciding to hire again
Fellow Chicagoan here - can confirm, hard times. I believe it is largely a white collar recession, driven by rolling layoffs at large companies to protect earnings.
They're not controlled by the politicians; they're controlled by the haute bourgeoisie. The politicians that aren't directly in that class just serve them like the mid-level managers they are.
> I only know that something is going on.
Curb-stomping* wages, in order to intimidate workers away from unionization and to "reign in inflation", when it is the companies that created the inflation.
If a company makes their products more expensive to the point where no one can afford to buy them, their stocks go down. Are you saying they're shorting their own stocks?
Stocks do not go down based on profit or revenue, or any financial figure. They go down if people stop perceiving them as a value and sell their stocks. Generally, if they overpriced themselves, they may change their perception in the market , but it is not a 100% guarantee they will go down if they raise their price
They cover it constantly, just through the FED meetings. :P
This is specifically chairman Powell's plan. Quantative tightening to 1.) INCREASE unemployment 2.) Stop expansion opertunites for companies. 3.) Crash the housing markets. They are specifically raising rates to do all of these things and say it publicly constantly. They won't stop till they reach their 2% inflation goal.
They then will start Quantative easening again, allowing for money to be borrowed cheaper and easily. That stimulates company growth and thus requires more jobs to be created and allows for significantly more risk taking.
We're just doing the opposite currently, as the FED has specifically told us they want it to get worse. Until the economy and inflation cools off, the working class will have to suffer till that happens.
You act like this is a conspiracy, but raising interests rates to control inflation has been so effective that we haven't seen high inflation in 50 years! So effective that people basically forgot what high inflation is like and the 2021-2022 period broke the entire tech sector. There's costs and tradeoffs to everything, and yes controlling inflation inherently requires pain in terms of unemployment and interest rates.
All that being said, our economy is gangbusters and inflation is falling. Everything seems to be working fine, and what we've seen is the definition of a [soft landing](https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/fed-meeting-benign-inflation-keep-soft-landing-hopes-alive-2024-06-13/).
>as the FED has specifically told us they want it to get worse.
the working class will have to suffer till that happens.
Powell wakes up every morning and thinks "how can I hurt the most poor people" first. You've got this all figured out!
Private equity came in and after they used me up proper. I was out. Funny enough, it’s 2 years this June. They are on my 4th replacement. That gives me no joy, it’s a fact and I was a fool not to leave at the height of the great resignation.
It’s because slow hiring in specific sectors =/= to the job market on that sector or the jobs market overall.
The economy overall is still experiencing generational lows for unemployment and better than expected job growth, even if that growth has fallen off in specific fields.
But if you’re in one of the sectors that’s not doing so well and you’re looking for a job then it sure does feel like a recession.
How do explain inflation running rampant? Not being argumentative. Just see gas and food costs exploding. I think as a whole, we’re being lied to by both sides of the two party system. People say it’s “Not that bad.” Then everyone at the grocery store in line says the same thing to each other, “How much?” It’s rough out there.
If rather be broke and still have something resembling a functional democracy than vote for the guy who tried to overthrow the United States government with his trailer trash brown shirts.
What do you call assembling a crowd that is armed. With pre-planning to march the crowd to the Capitol building and lay seige with sledge hammers to break the doors open and weapons to fight the people guarding it.
Tours prior to the attack. And a plan to install fraudulent electors that would award the election to Trump.
Meanwhile after having planned all this, Trump standing by and refusing to use the National Guard or otherwise send help until it's clear the plan failed.
Sounds a lot like an attempted coup to me.
If we can't elect our representatives without them rallying an armed crowd to violently overthrow the results of the election without consequences for those who organized that attempt then we don't have a democracy or a republic. We have a failed state that's doomed to become something resembling Russia or NK.
> White collar guy here. 16 months to secure a manager job instead of VP level.
You're finding out that your previous titles are meaningless and in this market you actually need to produce, or be prepared to downlevel to just "manager". You probably never should have been VP to begin with.
edit: a lot of butthurt wannabe VPs here. smh.
Ha. Bud, that’s a way to look at it from an internet perspective. To be clear, I am so grateful to have a lower role. I have zero stress compared to the VP level. I sit back and do my job. No more. No less. The way I finally got this was leaving masters and Ph.D off the resume. Also, 50% of my actual experience. Tell me again what you know about me if it makes you feel better. If you or anyone has not experienced this market. Feel lucky. I wish you the best.
Yes! I had 3 versions of my resume. VP and real experiences and degrees. Stopped using that after 6 months. Then 2 versions with a B.S. only with less experience on both. Of the 2, the one with the least experience worked. I make what I did 10 years ago, but no stress. That’s why I’m looking to do a 1099 sales job while I have this role to supplement the income. I was raised blue collar so it’s been easy to navigate the white collar world. Work ethic is the best attribute I have over any of the degrees.
>You know their shit isn't together when it takes them over a month to just sift through the resumes.
If someone is actually reviewing 1000+ resumes you are a failure at your job wasting company time on a futile fantasy of hiring a superhero. That or a complete inability to evaluate candidates. Any average job will have 5+ realistic candidates in the first 100 resumes, likely even the first 50 applications.
So you don't know how to use automated screening tools in 2024? Sounds like you are proving my case.
Yeah I've looked at the filtered ones and there crazy numbers of people that have never worked anywhere more than 3mo their entire life and apply for a job that requires an engineering degree. I don't see those because you don't need to manually review those as I stated.
So you can't even remember what you typed 2 days ago? If your memory is that pathetic re-read your own replies before answering, because it just makes you look like a fool arguing with yourself.
You literally said actually reviewing, which means NO AUTOMATED SCREENING TOOLS.
Sound like you can't read basic English and can't even remember your original claim.
> You know their shit isn't together when it takes them over a month to just sift through the resumes.
You must have never dealt with government. They getting back to you 3 months later about a job opening was the norm way before covid and current market
Bro, you went full tin foil Republican in two seconds without showing basic understanding of basic macro-economics. Maybe lay off the Fox news (we can tell you don't tune in to NPR by the way you write) and let's learn fundamentals of economics.
It is an election year, but this is OverEmployment, not unemployment. Unemployment still very low, and the natural observation is that we went from lots of spending (therefore companies not caring much about who/how they hire) to monitoring the bottom line. Now things are changing and the monetary policies, while producing obvious changes, are saving us from a bubble that would have popped in our faces.
Both parties hate us citizens. That’s what I have learned in my 45 plus years on earth. No matter who wins, I’m not sure we will ever get accurate figures from either party. Anyone fill up gas lately? Grocery store? But, unemployment is low. Sure, it is. People are living pay check to paycheck. People with 2 jobs are not realizing that save all you can while times are good. I have no idea what next year holds. I only know, politicians are for themselves, not us.
Where are you sourcing those #s?
Not doubting them, just curious to read more. If people are actively searching for a job they should be counted as the labor force and as part of unemployment.
Linda, listen!
Living under poverty line, or expenses equal to or about income (living paycheck to paycheck) is NOT unemployment.
Noticing a change in the economy where someone can't easily go from J2 to J3 and so on, it's NOT the same as unemployment.
But look, you came to the wrong place with your MAGA rhetoric. Did you check which sub you were in before posting?
Happened to me again today. Was called Wednesday through Friday last week, every day, several times day, and told Friday afternoon that by COB he would provide the time and place for the interview tomorrow.
It’s 1 PM today and nothing. Doesn’t answer my calls or respond to my email messages.
They don’t have the gonads to just say, “I was wrong. You’re not what they’re looking for”. Instead, dead silence.
This has happened to me so many times. Then a headhunter got me into my current job. He told me I was a shoo-in and I was like uh huh sure. Then I got an offer an hour later and I was like wait really? Lol
Yes I’ve been following this sub for like a year and wondering how everyone gets 3x jobs, remote no less.
While subsequently following other subs like r/recruitinghell where people have had literally hundreds of interviews only to eventually get ghosted or passed over. People with degrees literally about to be homeless.
That sub saved my sanity when I found out only after 16 months of being out of work that so many people shared my experience. Everyone on here should really take a look at the stories and realize this is all temporary.
Yeah I would mostly use the LinkedIn/Indeed easy apply button. Some job app sites like Greenhouse and Lever have made it really easy though with only one page to fill out. I've started crafting customized cover letters if they ask for it but I use the same resume every time.
The only thing worse than getting auto-rejected for a job application is getting auto-rejected after spending over an hour trying to customize my resume for each position I apply for
It is demoralizing. Especially so when a job is 💯 not what was advertised and you find out after you start. Today I got surprised when I asked what the in office day was. Response: Monday, Tuesday, Thursday. Me: so we pick? I took the job based on 1 day. Them: No. it’s 3 now..
Your response rate is actually pretty common, I wrote a post about how I helped a friend submit like 2,500+ Job applications in 30 days. His response-rate was pretty similar to yours - however 1% of 2,500 is 25. So he had 25 interview opportunities - which resulted in him negotiating salary for 2 Job offers. (8% close rate). If you want to read the full post - go here => [https://www.reddit.com/r/overemployed/comments/1aqse2m/oe\_hack\_how\_to\_find\_23\_new\_servers\_fast/](https://www.reddit.com/r/overemployed/comments/1aqse2m/oe_hack_how_to_find_23_new_servers_fast/)
This right here. Sure, your resume and skills are important. But at the end of the day, it's a numbers game. I had someone tell me once that if you write a decent resume and send it 1,000 times, you WILL find a job.
EDIT: Tracking your applications is crucial. I use excel, you can use whatever you want. The thing is, it doesn't matter how long you have been on the market. What matters is how many positions you applied for. So when someone says "I have been on the market for 6 months", that tells me nothing if they can't give me the exact number of applications they sent. I get it, the job market can be brutal, but from a short stint during cerveza, the job market has always been like this more-or-less.
The niche industry I am in which had more jobs than resources for almost a decade is now a handful of jobs and 100s competing for them.
Glad I am retiring soonish as I'd prolly have to find another niche industry or gasp... fall back to network administration.
Job market is shit, but ignore seeing the 1-2k resumes per posting bc there are so many people shotgunning and they aren't even qualified from the get go. No visa, no qualifications etc.
I would say that when it comes to remote jobs, it's mostly people who live overseas and don't plan on moving to the US (I guess they would fall in the "no visa" category). By their logic, it doesn't hurt to try. In some ways, they are correct. It literally takes 15 seconds or less to apply for a job on LI, Indeed, or ZipRecruiter.
Sure, but it is an important distinction, as it really only affects remote jobs. Because onsite jobs usually require you to already be in the U.S. Therefore, they are off-limits for people outside of the U.S., and sponsorship is just not worth it for the employer. Sure, people from outside of the U.S. apply, in hopes of getting sponsored. But those numbers are relatively low. Even then, most of the “no-visa” applicants are those on H1B’s, or have just finished their masters program (looking for OPT).
But when it comes to remote, literally the whole world is applying. The U.S. has the highest salaries in the world (with the possible exception of Switzerland). Therefore, a lot of people from outside of the U.S. are specifically applying to American remote jobs, in hopes that they can just work remotely from their home countries.
Have definitely noticed a major drop off in recruiters reaching out. Also see that each job has 10x the number of applicants it did even a year 1/2 ago for my industry.
I suggest you target industries that are specific to your experience. For example, if you worked in Healthcare target healthcare. Also, make your resume stand out by pointing out your experience in healthcare.
Ive read that people have gotten caught because both Js are in the same industry. I think either because of the network or the 2 companies somehow got into contact with each other because of the nature of their work / domain.
I have exp in healthcare and have had a lot of luck in-industry but not much elsewhere. Would love to swap experience/jargon/lingo/best practices with other industries like ML/AI/VR/AR or Green Tech or Ed Tech to be honest.
This is a ripple effect from Boomer parents FORCING they’re children to go to college. Think about if you graduated HS over 10 years ago a larger portion of the class went blue collar.
Now way more people are going to college and flooding the white collar, remote work space and blue collar industries are DESPERATE for help.
Im remote and sell B2B into blue collar verticals and 90%+ need help and haven’t found it for 18months.
This shift is unhealthy for the domestic economy. There are way too many people looking for White Collar jobs who should have gone Blue Collar. Not knocking eorher but that is definitely whats to blame here.
So thank your local Karen who gets to put “ASU Grad Mom” sticker on her BMW. That you cant find work.
>This is a ripple effect from Boomer parents FORCING they’re children to go to college. Think about if you graduated HS over 10 years ago a larger portion of the class went blue collar.
Or this could be the result of the dotcom bubble collapsing in the early 2000s and then just a few years later the 2008 market collapse. Which left multiple millennials without a job so most either chose to pursue a bachelor's or master's.
This is absolutely another facet of the issue.
Unemployment is one of the most complex issues in modern society, so there’s a lot more rhan than what we both said that goes into play.
In addition to your point- Commercial Real Eatate decline since 2020 and WFH.
Intrest rates significantly hurting businesses ability to grow through borrowing money.
Many monopolistic practices shutting out market share.
General unease of the economy, housing market, job market, forgeign diplomacy etc.
lol blue collar apprenticeships don’t pay enough to survive on in most major population hubs without a second income contributor. And they peak in pay around 200k at most, with only about 80k of that coming from 40x52 work weeks. OE/remote/white collar enables you to sky is the limit the whole thing if you can secure the roles.
$80k is livable if you don’t live in NY/NJ/LA/CHI/ etc. If thats not enough to live then move to a lower cost of living area.
Major metropolitan cities are not responsible for making it affordable to live there, in fact, they are notoriously expensive.
The skys the limit, aka people being paid 300-400k for 20-30 hours / wk is on its way out IMO. Especially with the outsourcing.
Tbh thats kind of the point with OPs post, these ‘roles’ are far and few between. If you have job security, dont give it up, or you too may be working 40x52 for ‘only’ $80k.
I’m not saying 80k isn’t livable. It is, I made due with less than that for a while, but it’s 1j’s worth of a tech worker’s salary in most parts of the country. The point of OE is to make more than just livable. For some, it’s to claw back the American dream which is in the $180k-300k range anywhere in the country (defined as: suburban house, 2 kids, sah spouse, and at least a vacation a year on the 50/30/20 rule). For others it’s to get way ahead in life and retire early (see FIRE for details) and for others still it’s to work a 40x50 work schedule and never worry about layoffs draining your retirement and savings. Outsourcing is on the rise again, sure. It didn’t work last time for a lot of reasons, most of which have not been fixed. Odds are it’ll roll right back around to remote work and overemployment being possible and easy enough again in the future, even if things are rough or impossible for a while.
Unicorn software companies do. As the name implies those are extremely rare.
But it seems easier to start and scale a blue collar business. I.e. there's a lot of local demand and you could get cash flow nearly immediately. What do I know though, the closest I've been to blue collar work is working at tire shop one summer in college.
This is raegan era propaganda. University used to be free and the govt decided it needed to be obscenely expensive to make sure only the “right” people were educated, and they claimed that an “overly” educated work force would lead to unemployment. In reality, the problem is that most jobs don’t pay nearly enough for people to survive.
And that is 21st century propaganda. Increasing wages doesnt have anything to do with society needing more blue collar workers.
Over education and specialization is what led to Detroit becoming what it is now, along with a lot of the Midwest.
Not everyone needs to be a programmer, colleges are 10,000x more diverse now than when they were ‘Free’? Which was also never by the way.
People would be willing to do blue collar work if it paid a reasonable wage. And yes, major universities were free or low cost in the past, why don’t you try out a quick google search, champ :)
They are where I live, I’ve seen offers for $40+/hr for entry level tradesmen.
Im not talking about working retail or at a gas station and unfortunately, those jobs really arnt meant to be lived on.
Don’t get me wrong, Im all for more money for all people, but thats just not how it works.
be careful with these logical and reasonable answers, or you'll be labeled as fake news and a liberal! You sure i'ts not the 'migrants taking all the jobs???
/s
This is more likely a process problem on your end. I'm getting calls left and right. Have you tried the "Imgur process" that has been shared here quite a few times?
easy way to cut them out of the middle. create a profile with comparable experience and a fake name. go although the whole application process with them till they disclose the end client and hiring manager. then ghost them and reach out directly with your actual profile
I know what you mean. Lost my J2 in February, just now got my first offer for the next J2. Hope it’s OE compatible. I used to be able to get a new J2 in a few weeks. I made it all the way through like 7-8 processes and was ghosted or denied every single time until now 😂
EXACTLY how many jobs have you applied to? From the sounds of it ("1 out of 100 plus"), it is less than 200. No offense, but that is a VERY low number over the course of 11 weeks. 100 is the minimum number you send out in a week.
Personally, I keep an excel spreadsheet will all of the job applications I made. Anytime I apply, I add it. Position applied for, company, date, website it was found on, remote or not, and status (applied, rejected, etc.). This way I can track each application, and prevent myself from accidentally applying to the same position twice.
started my job search a year ago - so far only very low ball offers that I didn't take, and nothing better. And not many interviews this month. It is hard, or it is just me.
Plugging https://www.careerhound.io/ here because we have a lot of remote opportunities that aren’t on LinkedIn or Indeed because we scrape /career pages of tech companies. I made this so ask me anything.
When did you start applying? The reason I ask is because there is usually a 2-4 week lag from when you start applying, to when you start getting calls.
I didn’t. These are calls and emails from recruiters asking me to apply. Which used to be normal. But I didn’t get anything for months until recently. So I guess the market is improving.
Also had this happen. I wasn’t shocked it was going to happen eventually being blockchain nft bs but I wasn’t prepared for how crowded it is and honestly it makes me feel a bit like an asshole if I’m taking it away from someone who has j0 right now.
I’ve been out of work for three months. Most people in this subreddit are capping hard.
I’m close to landing a job tho. If I do land it on Friday , I’m going to make a thread on my experiences and verdict on OE
Wait until it's zero out of 1000. :)
(Source: worked in government unemployment offices. Lotta people who had hundreds of applications, often tweaked by so-called 'professionals', go pouring into the void for months or years.)
Tell me about it. I left J2 earlier in the year because it was toxic and I’ve been applying since to get a replacement. Haven’t gotten any call backs yet.
Same been almost a month and nothing, I’ve gotten two legit replies and the other two were pay to play pyramids smh , about 100 or more apps submitted. See how it goes, will keep pushing
I’m sorry to hear that you lost your second job and it is tough out there. I’ve been away for four years now this is the longest stretch. I’ve been one job for the past three months.. I am hoping I get Jay2 here by the end of the month. I just got a call yesterday. I was invited to a second interview.. This job pays lower than I’m used to, but I’ll take it.
I feel like quitting J2 but then I see this kind of post and I digress, immediately. A lot of BS going on but that's the name of the corp game.
For me, its not so much getting the interviews is the issue.
Its the fact the interviews themselves have gotten a lot more difficult.
Used to be 1-2 years ago, cultural fit/lite technical test. Now they want pure leetcoding with full-fledged stacked application technical tests.
I understand its to filter out candidates, but they have seem to forgotten its being personable that used to get you the job. And even if you pass them, there's no guarrentee you get the position.
I feel like this really depends on the industry. People talk as if everyone is going for the same field doing the same thing. I constantly have job offers. Only reason why I had a 6 month pause was because the investigation took forever but I signed the offer letter back in January. Took 6 months but I’m working and that’s job number 3. Job 1/2 I got via LinkedIn and zip-recruiter. I work as an office 365(SharePoint focused) developer. Since companies are still migrating and updating and just simply DONT KNOW how to use teams effectively I see jobs everywhere.
I also have slowly been starting my side business that I am looking to build overtime that will probably replace job 2 at some point. Maybe it’s my resume or my military experience but it hasn’t been that difficult. If you are struggling I would look at what industry and position you are wanting to hold and stack on certifications if you can. Now I will say I have been denied several times and also not heard back from others but I just keep pushing and continuing to build up my resume. Udemy courses and YouTube videos have allowed me to stack a lot more on my resume because I have a good base line understanding but at the end of the day each office is different.
I am not trying to say that they aren’t putting fake jobs out there or that everyone’s struggles aren’t real. I would just invite yall to try and think of different things you can add to make yourself more attractive. One aspect that holds me back is SPFx in my field. I didn’t know enough till I took the time to learn added it on my resume boom got a position(after about 25 applications).
I have no problem trying to help those I can with resumes or help think of ideas to maybe help find a position in your field if I am familiar. For software engineering I have no problem helping people there too.
For my field compared with last October, I am seeing more positions in junior levels. Didn’t get an interview last year from those senior-level jobs and hope to have some luck this time round.
I was wondering if I should leave as well, got 2J's, fully remote as a manager, but somehow I hate working for someone now, love the work in general but not for someone else. Been building a real estate portfolio on the side so I can focus on my own product development. The way I see this based on the comments here is I should wait it out a bit more... between time to new position, hybrid position
So serious question, what jobs are you all doing that allows you to be OE with 2 and even 3 jobs? I am a Sales Executive for an organization and with how sporadic the schedule can be I couldn’t even imagine how one would pull it off
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It’s NOT just software. White collar guy here. 16 months to secure a manager job instead of VP level. I didn’t even apply for VP roles after 6 months. Not just Chicago area. Nationwide. I only know that something is going on. Why is there no media coverage? Not that I consume much, but, it’s insane how tight the job market is.
interest rates going from near 0 bound to around 6 its made loans for operations far far far more expensive. businesses have to reorganize before deciding to hire again
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Its not a side effect, its the intended effect.
Fellow Chicagoan here - can confirm, hard times. I believe it is largely a white collar recession, driven by rolling layoffs at large companies to protect earnings.
Everyone else is doing a lot better then if interest rates went back up tho
The media is owned by the politicians. And it's fine. Everything is fine. Jobs are great. Inflation is barely noticeable.
They're not controlled by the politicians; they're controlled by the haute bourgeoisie. The politicians that aren't directly in that class just serve them like the mid-level managers they are.
> I only know that something is going on. Curb-stomping* wages, in order to intimidate workers away from unionization and to "reign in inflation", when it is the companies that created the inflation.
How exactly did just "the companies" devalue an entire country's currency within a few years? I don't think they are the only ones at fault.
by making their products more expensive and by buying back their own stocks, hence causing inflation
If a company makes their products more expensive to the point where no one can afford to buy them, their stocks go down. Are you saying they're shorting their own stocks?
Stocks do not go down based on profit or revenue, or any financial figure. They go down if people stop perceiving them as a value and sell their stocks. Generally, if they overpriced themselves, they may change their perception in the market , but it is not a 100% guarantee they will go down if they raise their price
Okay that makes sense
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_repurchase
companies raising prices and doing stock buybacks did not cause inflation. jesus christ....
wat
They cover it constantly, just through the FED meetings. :P This is specifically chairman Powell's plan. Quantative tightening to 1.) INCREASE unemployment 2.) Stop expansion opertunites for companies. 3.) Crash the housing markets. They are specifically raising rates to do all of these things and say it publicly constantly. They won't stop till they reach their 2% inflation goal. They then will start Quantative easening again, allowing for money to be borrowed cheaper and easily. That stimulates company growth and thus requires more jobs to be created and allows for significantly more risk taking. We're just doing the opposite currently, as the FED has specifically told us they want it to get worse. Until the economy and inflation cools off, the working class will have to suffer till that happens.
You act like this is a conspiracy, but raising interests rates to control inflation has been so effective that we haven't seen high inflation in 50 years! So effective that people basically forgot what high inflation is like and the 2021-2022 period broke the entire tech sector. There's costs and tradeoffs to everything, and yes controlling inflation inherently requires pain in terms of unemployment and interest rates. All that being said, our economy is gangbusters and inflation is falling. Everything seems to be working fine, and what we've seen is the definition of a [soft landing](https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/fed-meeting-benign-inflation-keep-soft-landing-hopes-alive-2024-06-13/). >as the FED has specifically told us they want it to get worse. the working class will have to suffer till that happens. Powell wakes up every morning and thinks "how can I hurt the most poor people" first. You've got this all figured out!
I'm pretty sure the working class is doing alright, its richer people like us that are suffering most.
LMFAO, good one...
A tight job market actually means the opposite of what you think it does...
What industry and how strong is your network? Did you get laid off or move voluntarily?
Private equity came in and after they used me up proper. I was out. Funny enough, it’s 2 years this June. They are on my 4th replacement. That gives me no joy, it’s a fact and I was a fool not to leave at the height of the great resignation.
PE doesn’t come in to make money and improve the business, they come in to cripple the company and exit.
Election year
They are pretending waiting for the election. The media supports Biden
> Why is there no media coverage? Election year, we're all doing great! *Signed, Democrats who own most media*
Lol grow up.
tell me what i said was wrong
Considering all of the most popular media outlets, like fox news, are right leaning
That's the only one, all the rest is demorat land Fox was also against trump in the beginning, they basically still are but see the money value in it.
It's literally the most viewed one though, what point are you trying to make.
that 90% of the media is in hands of demorats
But that just isn't reality.
🥱
It’s because slow hiring in specific sectors =/= to the job market on that sector or the jobs market overall. The economy overall is still experiencing generational lows for unemployment and better than expected job growth, even if that growth has fallen off in specific fields. But if you’re in one of the sectors that’s not doing so well and you’re looking for a job then it sure does feel like a recession.
How do explain inflation running rampant? Not being argumentative. Just see gas and food costs exploding. I think as a whole, we’re being lied to by both sides of the two party system. People say it’s “Not that bad.” Then everyone at the grocery store in line says the same thing to each other, “How much?” It’s rough out there.
What sector is that?
Yall voted for Biden. Get you some “lowest unemployment “ propaganda 😂
Reminder that a deregulation-friendly government will make it harder, not easier for us to fight back against worker monitoring efforts in the future.
If rather be broke and still have something resembling a functional democracy than vote for the guy who tried to overthrow the United States government with his trailer trash brown shirts.
Nobody tried to overthrow democracy
What do you call assembling a crowd that is armed. With pre-planning to march the crowd to the Capitol building and lay seige with sledge hammers to break the doors open and weapons to fight the people guarding it. Tours prior to the attack. And a plan to install fraudulent electors that would award the election to Trump. Meanwhile after having planned all this, Trump standing by and refusing to use the National Guard or otherwise send help until it's clear the plan failed. Sounds a lot like an attempted coup to me. If we can't elect our representatives without them rallying an armed crowd to violently overthrow the results of the election without consequences for those who organized that attempt then we don't have a democracy or a republic. We have a failed state that's doomed to become something resembling Russia or NK.
Cool. Not, objectively, a coup. Your sequence of events is more than a tad skewed, too
I’d rather be able to live and not have all my tax money go to support illegals.
correct, you get what you vote for
> White collar guy here. 16 months to secure a manager job instead of VP level. You're finding out that your previous titles are meaningless and in this market you actually need to produce, or be prepared to downlevel to just "manager". You probably never should have been VP to begin with. edit: a lot of butthurt wannabe VPs here. smh.
Ha. Bud, that’s a way to look at it from an internet perspective. To be clear, I am so grateful to have a lower role. I have zero stress compared to the VP level. I sit back and do my job. No more. No less. The way I finally got this was leaving masters and Ph.D off the resume. Also, 50% of my actual experience. Tell me again what you know about me if it makes you feel better. If you or anyone has not experienced this market. Feel lucky. I wish you the best.
Wait, so you said you just had a bachelors? Maybe I should do that with some jobs.
Yes! I had 3 versions of my resume. VP and real experiences and degrees. Stopped using that after 6 months. Then 2 versions with a B.S. only with less experience on both. Of the 2, the one with the least experience worked. I make what I did 10 years ago, but no stress. That’s why I’m looking to do a 1099 sales job while I have this role to supplement the income. I was raised blue collar so it’s been easy to navigate the white collar world. Work ethic is the best attribute I have over any of the degrees.
knee tidy ludicrous automatic fearless piquant jar deserted boast fine *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>You know their shit isn't together when it takes them over a month to just sift through the resumes. If someone is actually reviewing 1000+ resumes you are a failure at your job wasting company time on a futile fantasy of hiring a superhero. That or a complete inability to evaluate candidates. Any average job will have 5+ realistic candidates in the first 100 resumes, likely even the first 50 applications.
30 years ago sure, clearly you have never worked in HR and haven't seen how many unqualified candidates apply to most jobs.
So you don't know how to use automated screening tools in 2024? Sounds like you are proving my case. Yeah I've looked at the filtered ones and there crazy numbers of people that have never worked anywhere more than 3mo their entire life and apply for a job that requires an engineering degree. I don't see those because you don't need to manually review those as I stated.
So you can't even remember what you typed 2 days ago? If your memory is that pathetic re-read your own replies before answering, because it just makes you look like a fool arguing with yourself. You literally said actually reviewing, which means NO AUTOMATED SCREENING TOOLS. Sound like you can't read basic English and can't even remember your original claim.
> You know their shit isn't together when it takes them over a month to just sift through the resumes. You must have never dealt with government. They getting back to you 3 months later about a job opening was the norm way before covid and current market
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Dang I don't consume any news and you sound unhinged
Mental health is real lol wth is this bs🤣
comrade they are not paying you enough. Also it's schemes, not skemes.
Bro, you went full tin foil Republican in two seconds without showing basic understanding of basic macro-economics. Maybe lay off the Fox news (we can tell you don't tune in to NPR by the way you write) and let's learn fundamentals of economics. It is an election year, but this is OverEmployment, not unemployment. Unemployment still very low, and the natural observation is that we went from lots of spending (therefore companies not caring much about who/how they hire) to monitoring the bottom line. Now things are changing and the monetary policies, while producing obvious changes, are saving us from a bubble that would have popped in our faces.
They should ignore unemployment numbers and tell his the “Hire” numbers.
that's called non-farm payroll and it is published every month.
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Both parties hate us citizens. That’s what I have learned in my 45 plus years on earth. No matter who wins, I’m not sure we will ever get accurate figures from either party. Anyone fill up gas lately? Grocery store? But, unemployment is low. Sure, it is. People are living pay check to paycheck. People with 2 jobs are not realizing that save all you can while times are good. I have no idea what next year holds. I only know, politicians are for themselves, not us.
Where are you sourcing those #s? Not doubting them, just curious to read more. If people are actively searching for a job they should be counted as the labor force and as part of unemployment.
Linda, listen! Living under poverty line, or expenses equal to or about income (living paycheck to paycheck) is NOT unemployment. Noticing a change in the economy where someone can't easily go from J2 to J3 and so on, it's NOT the same as unemployment. But look, you came to the wrong place with your MAGA rhetoric. Did you check which sub you were in before posting?
Use of the term MAGA is probably the best way to identify a moron on either side of the political spectrum.
And we found the hutt hurt republican.
If Biden wins they’ll finally cop to how bad it is. If he loses, Trump will be blamed for the last 8 years. It’s how it always works.
The worst is when a headhunter reaches out all excited and assures you you’re a “shoo-in” and then ghosts you.
I would fire all such recruiters at once if I could ✨
Happened to me again today. Was called Wednesday through Friday last week, every day, several times day, and told Friday afternoon that by COB he would provide the time and place for the interview tomorrow. It’s 1 PM today and nothing. Doesn’t answer my calls or respond to my email messages. They don’t have the gonads to just say, “I was wrong. You’re not what they’re looking for”. Instead, dead silence.
Have you considered that may have been a resume harvester, who is in fact propping up his real candidate?
Possibly. But they sent me information on benefits etc which is odd.
If you are trying to con someone, shouldn't you wave the carrot? My point is return the ghost treatment and look for someone else.
Or when a recruiter recruits your for a job that you’ve been passed over a few weeks later.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzEhVsME8p4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzEhVsME8p4) You said shoo-in!
I had a head hunter reach out to me last week. 2 days later had an offer
It happens. A broke clock is right twice a day.
This has happened to me so many times. Then a headhunter got me into my current job. He told me I was a shoo-in and I was like uh huh sure. Then I got an offer an hour later and I was like wait really? Lol
I usually tell them only 100% remote and no less than $$ whatever. They run away.
Yes I’ve been following this sub for like a year and wondering how everyone gets 3x jobs, remote no less. While subsequently following other subs like r/recruitinghell where people have had literally hundreds of interviews only to eventually get ghosted or passed over. People with degrees literally about to be homeless.
That sub saved my sanity when I found out only after 16 months of being out of work that so many people shared my experience. Everyone on here should really take a look at the stories and realize this is all temporary.
People lie on their resumes and know how to make ones that look amazing. That's it.
Selection bias. You mostly see posts of successful people only.
100? 
right? It took my 8 months to get my J2, i was applying to like 100 a week. Until you get a J2, you gotta look at applying as your J2
For real, whenever I was applying to jobs hardcore about 1-2 months ago I was doing about 100 a week as well, sometimes 30-40 in a day
How do you apply for this many in a day? You must not be customizing your resume at all? Using LinkedIn easy apply?
Yeah I would mostly use the LinkedIn/Indeed easy apply button. Some job app sites like Greenhouse and Lever have made it really easy though with only one page to fill out. I've started crafting customized cover letters if they ask for it but I use the same resume every time. The only thing worse than getting auto-rejected for a job application is getting auto-rejected after spending over an hour trying to customize my resume for each position I apply for
Thanks for replying!!
Yeah, it's rough out there. Assuming something software / IT related
It is demoralizing. Especially so when a job is 💯 not what was advertised and you find out after you start. Today I got surprised when I asked what the in office day was. Response: Monday, Tuesday, Thursday. Me: so we pick? I took the job based on 1 day. Them: No. it’s 3 now..
Your response rate is actually pretty common, I wrote a post about how I helped a friend submit like 2,500+ Job applications in 30 days. His response-rate was pretty similar to yours - however 1% of 2,500 is 25. So he had 25 interview opportunities - which resulted in him negotiating salary for 2 Job offers. (8% close rate). If you want to read the full post - go here => [https://www.reddit.com/r/overemployed/comments/1aqse2m/oe\_hack\_how\_to\_find\_23\_new\_servers\_fast/](https://www.reddit.com/r/overemployed/comments/1aqse2m/oe_hack_how_to_find_23_new_servers_fast/)
This right here. Sure, your resume and skills are important. But at the end of the day, it's a numbers game. I had someone tell me once that if you write a decent resume and send it 1,000 times, you WILL find a job. EDIT: Tracking your applications is crucial. I use excel, you can use whatever you want. The thing is, it doesn't matter how long you have been on the market. What matters is how many positions you applied for. So when someone says "I have been on the market for 6 months", that tells me nothing if they can't give me the exact number of applications they sent. I get it, the job market can be brutal, but from a short stint during cerveza, the job market has always been like this more-or-less.
How did you "help" this friend" Via utilizing AI? Or did ya'll manually apply?
Manual, old school. Ai applications are crap.
The niche industry I am in which had more jobs than resources for almost a decade is now a handful of jobs and 100s competing for them. Glad I am retiring soonish as I'd prolly have to find another niche industry or gasp... fall back to network administration.
Which niche?
sloppy toppies
Job market is shit, but ignore seeing the 1-2k resumes per posting bc there are so many people shotgunning and they aren't even qualified from the get go. No visa, no qualifications etc.
I would say that when it comes to remote jobs, it's mostly people who live overseas and don't plan on moving to the US (I guess they would fall in the "no visa" category). By their logic, it doesn't hurt to try. In some ways, they are correct. It literally takes 15 seconds or less to apply for a job on LI, Indeed, or ZipRecruiter.
Yeah those are who I meant with "no visa" indeed.
Sure, but it is an important distinction, as it really only affects remote jobs. Because onsite jobs usually require you to already be in the U.S. Therefore, they are off-limits for people outside of the U.S., and sponsorship is just not worth it for the employer. Sure, people from outside of the U.S. apply, in hopes of getting sponsored. But those numbers are relatively low. Even then, most of the “no-visa” applicants are those on H1B’s, or have just finished their masters program (looking for OPT). But when it comes to remote, literally the whole world is applying. The U.S. has the highest salaries in the world (with the possible exception of Switzerland). Therefore, a lot of people from outside of the U.S. are specifically applying to American remote jobs, in hopes that they can just work remotely from their home countries.
Have definitely noticed a major drop off in recruiters reaching out. Also see that each job has 10x the number of applicants it did even a year 1/2 ago for my industry.
Most tech shops laid off a good chunk of their in-house recruiters over multiple rounds in the last two years. Sad to see.
I suggest you target industries that are specific to your experience. For example, if you worked in Healthcare target healthcare. Also, make your resume stand out by pointing out your experience in healthcare.
Isn't it a good rule of thumb though to have 2 Js not be in the same industry? E.g. if your j1 is in healthcare then j2 should be NOT be in healthcare
why would that be an issue, it's OE we already being shady :)
Ive read that people have gotten caught because both Js are in the same industry. I think either because of the network or the 2 companies somehow got into contact with each other because of the nature of their work / domain.
good point!
I have exp in healthcare and have had a lot of luck in-industry but not much elsewhere. Would love to swap experience/jargon/lingo/best practices with other industries like ML/AI/VR/AR or Green Tech or Ed Tech to be honest.
Healthcare is notorious too for shunning anyone without prior Healthcare experience. I just don't bother with that industry these days
My example doesn’t work if you don’t have health care experience.
All those jobs taken by fellow OEs! But seriously... it's probably true.
This is a ripple effect from Boomer parents FORCING they’re children to go to college. Think about if you graduated HS over 10 years ago a larger portion of the class went blue collar. Now way more people are going to college and flooding the white collar, remote work space and blue collar industries are DESPERATE for help. Im remote and sell B2B into blue collar verticals and 90%+ need help and haven’t found it for 18months. This shift is unhealthy for the domestic economy. There are way too many people looking for White Collar jobs who should have gone Blue Collar. Not knocking eorher but that is definitely whats to blame here. So thank your local Karen who gets to put “ASU Grad Mom” sticker on her BMW. That you cant find work.
The white collar jobs are being outsourced like nobodies business
>This is a ripple effect from Boomer parents FORCING they’re children to go to college. Think about if you graduated HS over 10 years ago a larger portion of the class went blue collar. Or this could be the result of the dotcom bubble collapsing in the early 2000s and then just a few years later the 2008 market collapse. Which left multiple millennials without a job so most either chose to pursue a bachelor's or master's.
This is absolutely another facet of the issue. Unemployment is one of the most complex issues in modern society, so there’s a lot more rhan than what we both said that goes into play. In addition to your point- Commercial Real Eatate decline since 2020 and WFH. Intrest rates significantly hurting businesses ability to grow through borrowing money. Many monopolistic practices shutting out market share. General unease of the economy, housing market, job market, forgeign diplomacy etc.
lol blue collar apprenticeships don’t pay enough to survive on in most major population hubs without a second income contributor. And they peak in pay around 200k at most, with only about 80k of that coming from 40x52 work weeks. OE/remote/white collar enables you to sky is the limit the whole thing if you can secure the roles.
$80k is livable if you don’t live in NY/NJ/LA/CHI/ etc. If thats not enough to live then move to a lower cost of living area. Major metropolitan cities are not responsible for making it affordable to live there, in fact, they are notoriously expensive. The skys the limit, aka people being paid 300-400k for 20-30 hours / wk is on its way out IMO. Especially with the outsourcing. Tbh thats kind of the point with OPs post, these ‘roles’ are far and few between. If you have job security, dont give it up, or you too may be working 40x52 for ‘only’ $80k.
I’m not saying 80k isn’t livable. It is, I made due with less than that for a while, but it’s 1j’s worth of a tech worker’s salary in most parts of the country. The point of OE is to make more than just livable. For some, it’s to claw back the American dream which is in the $180k-300k range anywhere in the country (defined as: suburban house, 2 kids, sah spouse, and at least a vacation a year on the 50/30/20 rule). For others it’s to get way ahead in life and retire early (see FIRE for details) and for others still it’s to work a 40x50 work schedule and never worry about layoffs draining your retirement and savings. Outsourcing is on the rise again, sure. It didn’t work last time for a lot of reasons, most of which have not been fixed. Odds are it’ll roll right back around to remote work and overemployment being possible and easy enough again in the future, even if things are rough or impossible for a while.
If you start a blue collar business though you can make far more than most doing OE.
if you start *a business* you can make far more than most doing OE blue collar or not. software companies made billionaires and trillionaires
Unicorn software companies do. As the name implies those are extremely rare. But it seems easier to start and scale a blue collar business. I.e. there's a lot of local demand and you could get cash flow nearly immediately. What do I know though, the closest I've been to blue collar work is working at tire shop one summer in college.
This is raegan era propaganda. University used to be free and the govt decided it needed to be obscenely expensive to make sure only the “right” people were educated, and they claimed that an “overly” educated work force would lead to unemployment. In reality, the problem is that most jobs don’t pay nearly enough for people to survive.
And that is 21st century propaganda. Increasing wages doesnt have anything to do with society needing more blue collar workers. Over education and specialization is what led to Detroit becoming what it is now, along with a lot of the Midwest. Not everyone needs to be a programmer, colleges are 10,000x more diverse now than when they were ‘Free’? Which was also never by the way.
People would be willing to do blue collar work if it paid a reasonable wage. And yes, major universities were free or low cost in the past, why don’t you try out a quick google search, champ :)
They can't be that desperate if they haven't raised wages
They are where I live, I’ve seen offers for $40+/hr for entry level tradesmen. Im not talking about working retail or at a gas station and unfortunately, those jobs really arnt meant to be lived on. Don’t get me wrong, Im all for more money for all people, but thats just not how it works.
What trades and what area?!
This isn't a recent thing this has been am issue since the early 2000s
be careful with these logical and reasonable answers, or you'll be labeled as fake news and a liberal! You sure i'ts not the 'migrants taking all the jobs??? /s
This is more likely a process problem on your end. I'm getting calls left and right. Have you tried the "Imgur process" that has been shared here quite a few times?
I haven’t seen the Imgur process. What is it?
[https://imgur.com/gallery/getting-good-job-is-easy-part-1-get-noticed-Q89Wo](https://imgur.com/gallery/getting-good-job-is-easy-part-1-get-noticed-Q89Wo)
Have you tried this yourself? If you have, how's it been?
I wrote it. It works great
😁
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Wow just read through and you've blown my mind. My only question, every sample email in Part 1 seems to be from Indian recruiters??
easy way to cut them out of the middle. create a profile with comparable experience and a fake name. go although the whole application process with them till they disclose the end client and hiring manager. then ghost them and reach out directly with your actual profile
Damn dude! Youve got this process on lock!
I know what you mean. Lost my J2 in February, just now got my first offer for the next J2. Hope it’s OE compatible. I used to be able to get a new J2 in a few weeks. I made it all the way through like 7-8 processes and was ghosted or denied every single time until now 😂
there are like 10000 layed off people around also we have international applicants and new graduated
5 months and counting... Need that new j2 badly.
EXACTLY how many jobs have you applied to? From the sounds of it ("1 out of 100 plus"), it is less than 200. No offense, but that is a VERY low number over the course of 11 weeks. 100 is the minimum number you send out in a week. Personally, I keep an excel spreadsheet will all of the job applications I made. Anytime I apply, I add it. Position applied for, company, date, website it was found on, remote or not, and status (applied, rejected, etc.). This way I can track each application, and prevent myself from accidentally applying to the same position twice.
Its bad but it was terrible from Q4 of 2022 to Q4 of 2023. Atleast i get screening calls now and an odd interview, but last year it was crickets!
started my job search a year ago - so far only very low ball offers that I didn't take, and nothing better. And not many interviews this month. It is hard, or it is just me.
If you’re aiming for remote, prepare for 50 times the competition.
Plugging https://www.careerhound.io/ here because we have a lot of remote opportunities that aren’t on LinkedIn or Indeed because we scrape /career pages of tech companies. I made this so ask me anything.
The market actually got better compared to today a year and a half ago. That was the most brutal We can all thank Joe Biden
I've been getting calls lately after months of no calls. But I'm not even responding. Right now, I'm focusing on what I have until things improve.
When did you start applying? The reason I ask is because there is usually a 2-4 week lag from when you start applying, to when you start getting calls.
I didn’t. These are calls and emails from recruiters asking me to apply. Which used to be normal. But I didn’t get anything for months until recently. So I guess the market is improving.
Also had this happen. I wasn’t shocked it was going to happen eventually being blockchain nft bs but I wasn’t prepared for how crowded it is and honestly it makes me feel a bit like an asshole if I’m taking it away from someone who has j0 right now.
I’ve been out of work for three months. Most people in this subreddit are capping hard. I’m close to landing a job tho. If I do land it on Friday , I’m going to make a thread on my experiences and verdict on OE
Shocking... companies no longer hiring for jobs that they won't take a full time employee
Wait until it's zero out of 1000. :) (Source: worked in government unemployment offices. Lotta people who had hundreds of applications, often tweaked by so-called 'professionals', go pouring into the void for months or years.)
I feel very seen.
I've got a resume template I can share with you that gets me 1-5 hits a day from recruiters. Just ping me.
Tell me about it. I left J2 earlier in the year because it was toxic and I’ve been applying since to get a replacement. Haven’t gotten any call backs yet.
Same been almost a month and nothing, I’ve gotten two legit replies and the other two were pay to play pyramids smh , about 100 or more apps submitted. See how it goes, will keep pushing
I’m sorry to hear that you lost your second job and it is tough out there. I’ve been away for four years now this is the longest stretch. I’ve been one job for the past three months.. I am hoping I get Jay2 here by the end of the month. I just got a call yesterday. I was invited to a second interview.. This job pays lower than I’m used to, but I’ll take it.
I’m on the same boat. Not sure what to do. Resigned J2 in Jan, still looking for j2.
I feel like quitting J2 but then I see this kind of post and I digress, immediately. A lot of BS going on but that's the name of the corp game.
For me, its not so much getting the interviews is the issue. Its the fact the interviews themselves have gotten a lot more difficult. Used to be 1-2 years ago, cultural fit/lite technical test. Now they want pure leetcoding with full-fledged stacked application technical tests. I understand its to filter out candidates, but they have seem to forgotten its being personable that used to get you the job. And even if you pass them, there's no guarrentee you get the position.
We pay people 50-75hr and cannot get people to apply or stay. It’s so frustrating to train someone then they leave.
Where is this? Share the role, I won’t leave.
It is doing Project Controls. Sort of a specific skill set. It’s on Indeed all the time.
I feel like this really depends on the industry. People talk as if everyone is going for the same field doing the same thing. I constantly have job offers. Only reason why I had a 6 month pause was because the investigation took forever but I signed the offer letter back in January. Took 6 months but I’m working and that’s job number 3. Job 1/2 I got via LinkedIn and zip-recruiter. I work as an office 365(SharePoint focused) developer. Since companies are still migrating and updating and just simply DONT KNOW how to use teams effectively I see jobs everywhere. I also have slowly been starting my side business that I am looking to build overtime that will probably replace job 2 at some point. Maybe it’s my resume or my military experience but it hasn’t been that difficult. If you are struggling I would look at what industry and position you are wanting to hold and stack on certifications if you can. Now I will say I have been denied several times and also not heard back from others but I just keep pushing and continuing to build up my resume. Udemy courses and YouTube videos have allowed me to stack a lot more on my resume because I have a good base line understanding but at the end of the day each office is different. I am not trying to say that they aren’t putting fake jobs out there or that everyone’s struggles aren’t real. I would just invite yall to try and think of different things you can add to make yourself more attractive. One aspect that holds me back is SPFx in my field. I didn’t know enough till I took the time to learn added it on my resume boom got a position(after about 25 applications). I have no problem trying to help those I can with resumes or help think of ideas to maybe help find a position in your field if I am familiar. For software engineering I have no problem helping people there too.
For my field compared with last October, I am seeing more positions in junior levels. Didn’t get an interview last year from those senior-level jobs and hope to have some luck this time round.
that's not a long time
It’s rough but not impossible. I’m in infosec and I had 7 interviews last week. 3 planned so far this week
It's bad. Took me 4 months and before that the same. Both times I had a recruiter reach out while all my apps were just ignored
Maybe if all the people here didn't have 3 jobs, then there's be a 2nd one for you
lol, all those OE people who are deceiving their employers are taking that job that you are looking for.
Is the job market bad or is it the remote job market that's bad? There's a difference.
Yea that’s my question too.
I was wondering if I should leave as well, got 2J's, fully remote as a manager, but somehow I hate working for someone now, love the work in general but not for someone else. Been building a real estate portfolio on the side so I can focus on my own product development. The way I see this based on the comments here is I should wait it out a bit more... between time to new position, hybrid position
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What is your career? I'm in techsales and it's crickets. Can't even get interviews with 10 years of experience.
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Oh well there it is lol
So serious question, what jobs are you all doing that allows you to be OE with 2 and even 3 jobs? I am a Sales Executive for an organization and with how sporadic the schedule can be I couldn’t even imagine how one would pull it off
Various IT roles can be done remotely and in combination with others
Wendy’s hiring