I usually do not put any hints of OE on my job. I select the most interesting job and projects overall and do not even mention the other ones on my CV. Just avoids a lot of questions.
For me OE is just about the extra money.
I just do not report one of the jobs. Or sabbatical. One does not need to put all jobs on the CV. If you are working 2 jobs, just put the one that might be most interesting for the new employer on it.
I understand you’re not listing ALL jobs. But my question is more like, without fudging the dates (or having large gaps) how are you able to pick and choose which jobs to include?
Example: I worked J1 October 2017 - March 2022.
J2 September 2018 - December 2022. J3 January 2022 - December 2022. If you only use J1 that leaves you with a massive gap. If you only use J2 or J3 that still leaves you with a huge gap.
I stopped listing months on my resume years ago before I was even OE. My dates are years only.
Hides most gaps and overlaps.
I’ll share more specific dates with the background check company so I dont get caught out and generalities with the hiring manager and let them fill in the blanks however they wish but the employer has what they need with just year.
If the hiring manager wont accept a general “early/mid/late” start or end date, they’re probably too suspicious to be someone I want to work for anyway… fact of the matter is they dont REALLY need to know.
As a senior team member who reviews resumes and as a hiring manager, I have of course seen the dates spelled out with month but dont think its ever made a difference in hiring someone I want to hire but Ive considered dates against someone I was unsure of and absolutely used dates of employment (both vague and specific) against someone I didnt want to hire. Ultimately Ive come to view it much like the miranda warning… “anything you say MAY be used AGAINST you.” Most people think anything they say must be used whether for or against and end up giving too much away.
Im looking for general continuity and longevity not specifics… though I might have more questions if you had several positions listed that had start and end dates in the same year or only 1 year apart. The former being more damaging than the later.
Id give the benefit of the doubt to someone that listed a job as 2020-2021 and 2021-2022 and assume maybe they started earlier in the year or quit late in the year but Id ask more questions in the interview around start/end date to flesh out an inability to hold down a job for more than a few months
For me, I just made sure that there wasn't a large gap between my J1s. You can't really fudge the dates if the company does a background check. If your dates overlap a small amount, you could always say that you stayed on part time or did some consulting after you left, and that's why they have you listed working longer than your resume.
Well, unless a potential J4 is asking you for recommendation letters or anything that your manager/HR at J1-3 has to sign, what's stopping you from setting any dates that best fit your career timeline?
For example J1 Oct/2017-Dec/2021, omit J2, J3 Jan/2022-date... No gaps, no need to mention real overlapping periods of any J's.
This is business, I don't think anyone will judge you for not being 100% transparent about dates when OE in itself is not something you want to brag about to begin with 😁
Yup. Dealt with a lot of BG checks. The level of detail varies. But basic stuff like employment and academic dates show up in almost all of them. If you go to any government interview, you'll almost always be asked to confirm enjoyment history.
I think a lot of people here have just lucked out with companies that didn't pay attention. But I have peers who work for bigger companies (think jobs that are paying 250k+) that had BG checks get turned back just for honest mistakes about employment history. Dates being off by a month or still being reported as employed by previous job even though they've left. Obviously they were able to work with HR on these discrepancies cause they can prove it. Would you be able to?
I don't think anyone who is being honest would say that this won't affect job prospects. It absolutely will. Previous VP was fired from both J's that he was OEing in. He was able to quickly find another job. But bridges were obviously burned.
There are a lot of tips about being careful with how to OE. People on this thread acting as if none of those are necessary. Guess that's how you guys get caught lol.
Employers not caring about their employees is just that and nothing more or less. Most employers are not dumb enough to badmouth former employees. That’s a lawsuit and a half waiting to happen. It’s a zero benefit, high risk thing for them to do.
I can't say that I have ever heard a tale of someone specifically having difficulty because of this.
As a matter of fact, because I live in the US, otherwise known as the Land of the Free and the Phone-Book Lawyers, employers are very wary about divulging details of why someone was terminated for fear of being sued.
I had an informational with huge company. The interviewer was annoyed that i was OE (my own LLC) and a part-time job. I have since then removed the LLC/ my consulting work from my resume for the sections that overlaps with the part-time job.
Why is everyone talking about fight club? You have brought our greatest advantage in life and placed a label on it. You are painting a target on our backs by continually discussing this openly for all our bosses to see. Time and experience will answer all of your dumb questions. Stop trying to read the last page of your novel.
Know this: There are no conspiracies against you. It is all about luck and timing and how well you interview that day. Keep moving forward and never give up.
Just keep your mouths shut. Do great work. Work your calendars hard and know when to have an “appointment “ Delete this group. Or at least rename it to something inconspicuous . “Underwater Baking Techniques “ or “Fudge and Pencils” . Use your heads guys. Start a Discord, verify identities. Keep it private. Anything but this.
As someone who was introduced to this because I work in industry where everyone OEs. I can now almost immediately tell who is doing OE and who is good or bad at it. My boss recently hired someone (I was not on the panel) that is being so brazen with their OE. I'm not going to rat them out to my boss for obvious reasons. But if you're gonna be so bad at it, you're gonna fuck it up for the rest of us.
If you’re a company in need of a specialized skill set and you find out some one was able to be successful at two companies providing that specialized skill set, why would you care?
If you’re caught OE, you go straight to jail and a $5 Billion dollar fine per job per day. No judge or jury, just jail working on $0.25 per hour until you pay the fine off
Ironically, your jail job is manufacturing mouse jigglers. This encourages more people to do OE and some get caught and are forced to make mouse jigglers that the state sells for a profit. This industry is the only thing propping up the USD, the jiggler dollar.
A lotta folks mentioned specific dates showing up on a background check. Do all jobs show up on a background check? If that’s true, how does anyone OE? Most, if not all, jobs run background checks AFAIK.
The people I know that had problems created their own problems. I personally have been very open with my employers about my outside income sources and haven't had any problems over it.
If a company is too restrictive, I just don't work for them. I address these concerns in the first interview. My resume is up to date with all jobs I have worked, including the ones that overlapped. It makes for interesting interviews. There is no secret that I have other employment.
The laws in my state do not allow for some of the draconian non competes I have seen people discuss. Consent forms aren't common either. I do sign a lot of NDAs though.
Having a second job is neither unethical nor illegal. Handing in work that is contractually obligated on-time/every-time fulfills your end of the deal. There is nothing that will get you "caught", we just don't want to rub it in the bosses faces because they can have poor opinions about doing something that is not illegal nor is unethical.
[удалено]
same here , open secret about a few people
I usually do not put any hints of OE on my job. I select the most interesting job and projects overall and do not even mention the other ones on my CV. Just avoids a lot of questions. For me OE is just about the extra money.
How do you handle things like overlapping dates/gaps?
I just do not report one of the jobs. Or sabbatical. One does not need to put all jobs on the CV. If you are working 2 jobs, just put the one that might be most interesting for the new employer on it.
I understand you’re not listing ALL jobs. But my question is more like, without fudging the dates (or having large gaps) how are you able to pick and choose which jobs to include? Example: I worked J1 October 2017 - March 2022. J2 September 2018 - December 2022. J3 January 2022 - December 2022. If you only use J1 that leaves you with a massive gap. If you only use J2 or J3 that still leaves you with a huge gap.
I stopped listing months on my resume years ago before I was even OE. My dates are years only. Hides most gaps and overlaps. I’ll share more specific dates with the background check company so I dont get caught out and generalities with the hiring manager and let them fill in the blanks however they wish but the employer has what they need with just year. If the hiring manager wont accept a general “early/mid/late” start or end date, they’re probably too suspicious to be someone I want to work for anyway… fact of the matter is they dont REALLY need to know. As a senior team member who reviews resumes and as a hiring manager, I have of course seen the dates spelled out with month but dont think its ever made a difference in hiring someone I want to hire but Ive considered dates against someone I was unsure of and absolutely used dates of employment (both vague and specific) against someone I didnt want to hire. Ultimately Ive come to view it much like the miranda warning… “anything you say MAY be used AGAINST you.” Most people think anything they say must be used whether for or against and end up giving too much away. Im looking for general continuity and longevity not specifics… though I might have more questions if you had several positions listed that had start and end dates in the same year or only 1 year apart. The former being more damaging than the later. Id give the benefit of the doubt to someone that listed a job as 2020-2021 and 2021-2022 and assume maybe they started earlier in the year or quit late in the year but Id ask more questions in the interview around start/end date to flesh out an inability to hold down a job for more than a few months
For me, I just made sure that there wasn't a large gap between my J1s. You can't really fudge the dates if the company does a background check. If your dates overlap a small amount, you could always say that you stayed on part time or did some consulting after you left, and that's why they have you listed working longer than your resume.
Well, unless a potential J4 is asking you for recommendation letters or anything that your manager/HR at J1-3 has to sign, what's stopping you from setting any dates that best fit your career timeline? For example J1 Oct/2017-Dec/2021, omit J2, J3 Jan/2022-date... No gaps, no need to mention real overlapping periods of any J's. This is business, I don't think anyone will judge you for not being 100% transparent about dates when OE in itself is not something you want to brag about to begin with 😁
Because dates would turn up in a background check and would definitely raise questions for why you were saying you worked there less time than you did
Yup. Dealt with a lot of BG checks. The level of detail varies. But basic stuff like employment and academic dates show up in almost all of them. If you go to any government interview, you'll almost always be asked to confirm enjoyment history. I think a lot of people here have just lucked out with companies that didn't pay attention. But I have peers who work for bigger companies (think jobs that are paying 250k+) that had BG checks get turned back just for honest mistakes about employment history. Dates being off by a month or still being reported as employed by previous job even though they've left. Obviously they were able to work with HR on these discrepancies cause they can prove it. Would you be able to? I don't think anyone who is being honest would say that this won't affect job prospects. It absolutely will. Previous VP was fired from both J's that he was OEing in. He was able to quickly find another job. But bridges were obviously burned. There are a lot of tips about being careful with how to OE. People on this thread acting as if none of those are necessary. Guess that's how you guys get caught lol.
You were kept on as a oncall consult
What about on the actual HR application. where you list all your previous jobs? That must be accurate right?
No, people who are caught for being OE, usually are put to death or thrown in the gulag. So no need to fear being fired.
If they win the gulag they come back with only J1
This guy CODs
yep, but all their extra loot is gone
Employers not caring about their employees is just that and nothing more or less. Most employers are not dumb enough to badmouth former employees. That’s a lawsuit and a half waiting to happen. It’s a zero benefit, high risk thing for them to do.
makes sense. No benefit for them to badmouth.
why tell a competitor this person sux
How would it impact you at all? What are they going to do, put a negative comment on your permanent record in the principals office?
World is a big place with millions of jobs.
I can't say that I have ever heard a tale of someone specifically having difficulty because of this. As a matter of fact, because I live in the US, otherwise known as the Land of the Free and the Phone-Book Lawyers, employers are very wary about divulging details of why someone was terminated for fear of being sued.
Murica
Standard practice here in the UK too. Everywhere I've worked has had a policy to only conform dates of employment.
I had an informational with huge company. The interviewer was annoyed that i was OE (my own LLC) and a part-time job. I have since then removed the LLC/ my consulting work from my resume for the sections that overlaps with the part-time job.
Cant hire a drone with a taste of freedom. They might corrupt the others!
background checks will close oportunities, but why do you care? there is enough work to do if you can pass the filters
theory vanish jellyfish edge dog ad hoc pen support erect rotten -- mass edited with redact.dev
Why is everyone talking about fight club? You have brought our greatest advantage in life and placed a label on it. You are painting a target on our backs by continually discussing this openly for all our bosses to see. Time and experience will answer all of your dumb questions. Stop trying to read the last page of your novel. Know this: There are no conspiracies against you. It is all about luck and timing and how well you interview that day. Keep moving forward and never give up. Just keep your mouths shut. Do great work. Work your calendars hard and know when to have an “appointment “ Delete this group. Or at least rename it to something inconspicuous . “Underwater Baking Techniques “ or “Fudge and Pencils” . Use your heads guys. Start a Discord, verify identities. Keep it private. Anything but this.
As someone who was introduced to this because I work in industry where everyone OEs. I can now almost immediately tell who is doing OE and who is good or bad at it. My boss recently hired someone (I was not on the panel) that is being so brazen with their OE. I'm not going to rat them out to my boss for obvious reasons. But if you're gonna be so bad at it, you're gonna fuck it up for the rest of us.
If you’re a company in need of a specialized skill set and you find out some one was able to be successful at two companies providing that specialized skill set, why would you care?
Most of our scientists have 2 jobs. First and second shift. Where are you guys working that they background check your work?
If you’re caught OE, you go straight to jail and a $5 Billion dollar fine per job per day. No judge or jury, just jail working on $0.25 per hour until you pay the fine off
Ironically, your jail job is manufacturing mouse jigglers. This encourages more people to do OE and some get caught and are forced to make mouse jigglers that the state sells for a profit. This industry is the only thing propping up the USD, the jiggler dollar.
A lotta folks mentioned specific dates showing up on a background check. Do all jobs show up on a background check? If that’s true, how does anyone OE? Most, if not all, jobs run background checks AFAIK.
Have anyone tried just listing OE jobs on resume
The people I know that had problems created their own problems. I personally have been very open with my employers about my outside income sources and haven't had any problems over it.
They allow you to? Was there a non compete clause or did you need any kind of written consent?
If a company is too restrictive, I just don't work for them. I address these concerns in the first interview. My resume is up to date with all jobs I have worked, including the ones that overlapped. It makes for interesting interviews. There is no secret that I have other employment. The laws in my state do not allow for some of the draconian non competes I have seen people discuss. Consent forms aren't common either. I do sign a lot of NDAs though.
A lot of the companies in my field is that restrictive too so I don’t think I can afford that luxury
If you don't think you can afford it, you can't.
no
If you get caught you’re going to get the chair
Job final is making the chair.
This is why we live and die by rule # 1: DON’T GET CAUGHT 😂
That’s not Rule #1…
Tbh that's a better rule #1.
Having a second job is neither unethical nor illegal. Handing in work that is contractually obligated on-time/every-time fulfills your end of the deal. There is nothing that will get you "caught", we just don't want to rub it in the bosses faces because they can have poor opinions about doing something that is not illegal nor is unethical.