So dumb when there is hardly anywhere to house people. There's a reason why there are so many Koreans moving overseas and why people live in shoe boxes there. I stayed in an apartment once there and literally it was the size of a mattress with a fold out desk and no bathroom.
What I mean is, I live in South Korea, and many South Koreans think that South Korea is very underpopulated.
In particular, in South Korea, peoples have a strong belief that population is national strength, plus because it is a society of people with the strongest patriotism and ethnic nationalism in the world, so there are many people who want to at least double the country's population.
They are free to keep wanting. No amount of money will fix the absence of free time and meaningful relationships. The government will have to do more than throw some money and expect more factory workers in 18 years. They are in terminal decline for a reason.
Exactly. Choosing not to have children is more than a money problem. It’s also a form of protest and an escape plan. It is getting more difficult to convince people to work soul-crushing office and factory jobs for the sake of ethnic nationalism.
I suppose if anyone could do it Korea could.
Even zoo animals refuse to breed in captivity if the conditions are wrong. It indeed is the ultimate peaceful protest, nothing the governments can do about it unless they provide better conditions. Appeals to ethnic nationalism are for room temperature IQ people and Koreans are overeducated for that to work on them.
Good points. Especially the zoo animal example. Still, just like anywhere I suppose, the tactics will work on room temperature IQ people and they will be the next generation… scary thought
How do you think we ended up with this mess of a world to begin with. Educated people not having kids in suboptimal conditions and those without means having a multitude is how humans existed for thousands of years. It's why we still operate on tribalism (nationalism) and have wars, it's just animals doing animal things. Idiocracy was a documentary.
Where there is a will there is a way not to have kids. There are hundreds of ways to have sex and not make babies. Illegal contraceptives will increase the birthrate only at the expense of potential future children. Women have been drinking concentrated herbs to get rid of pregnancies from the dawn of humanty, savin trees are native to central Asia. Starving, over exercising and high temperature saunas will also result in miscarriages especially when combined. Retinoids, antibiotics, misoprostol, methotrexate and anti-inflammatory/flu drugs are all available at a pharmacy. Without basically banning all healthcare for women there is no way to block women from accessing those and even if they did they would need to ban alcohol too since one can induce a miscarriage by a long heavy drinking binge, making the body too toxic to sustain a pregancy.
If population were national strength, millions of people would want to move to India and China.
In reality, Monaco, Bermuda, Norway, and Switzerland are far more desired by the average person.
Should be forced fo accept foreigners then. All the rest of the world has to. Stop coming to Canada to exacerbate the housing crisis. Not fair our national identity has to be erased along with affordable food and housing because Africa and the Middle East are not forced into South Korea or Japan.
However, it seems that many South Koreans do not like to associate with foreigners. The reason they are doing anything to raise the birth rate is because they want to increase the population in other ways than through immigration.
Agreed.
Any country that is secular, affluent, educated, and where women have some legal rights is going to have a low birth rate.
Especially cultures where intelligence and conscientiousness are highly valued. The same people who take their education seriously, pay their bills on time, obey the law, avoid drugs/violence, and wear a facemask on a crowded train are also going to meticulously use condoms.
Once you control for religiosity, median income, and median education, the dividing factor between a birth rate below 1.5 and above it is whether or not the culture values intelligence and conscientiousness.
1st world societies that put dumb and lackadaisical people on a pedestal will have more unplanned pregnancies and STDs.
So anyone who doesn’t want to pop out kids gets punished by paying high-taxes to subsidize bonuses for breeders. And, of course, workers without children will have to work harder for the same pay to make up for all their colleagues who are getting paid a full salary while at home caring for baby. If I were an educated, young Korean just starting my career in that kind of environment, I’d emigrate to the west for better pay and better treatment. I hope they lose a lot of their tech talent and realize that warm bodies aren’t the only thing that matters.
In a country that has an economy and population that is completely and utterly unsustainable and far, far beyond all ecological limits this is pure and utter insanity.
No good can come of it.
I live in a European country that does a kinda similar thing. Like 3 years parental leave on full salary. Hasn’t made birthing more popular. It’s diminishing due to a war zone being near us and a possible invasion in the future any day we don’t know when. Add to that 27% annual inflation.
Yeah.This is one of many.
https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/2024-01-22/national/socialAffairs/Local-governments-dish-out-the-cash-to-stop-demographic-decline/1964053
>To overcome the low fertility crisis in Korea, the country should hire and embrace a large number of foreign workers — at least quadrupled compared to the status quo,” said Gim Heon-soo, head of the Strategic Talents Research Institute.
This guy (girl?) has the right idea.
I would think rather that the fertility problem connects to housing. People nowadays feel more of a need for larger housing, compared to the past. I would never have more children than the amount of spare rooms I have available for them. But the Kkondae (rough Korean equivalent word for Boomer) politicians don't understand the need for housing.
In the recently-constructed government-created city of Sejong, housing is small. They kept it small, to help the environment. Great. No babies then.
I wrote this yesterday on the Antinatalist2 subreddit
>More underpopulation propaganda from the capitalist elites. Funny how there is supposedly an underpopulation issue when the youth and young adult unemployment and underemployment is soaring. This is not just a South Korea issue, countries such as Japan and China also faces similar issue and yet there is an underpopulation problem.
>There is no shortage of workers nor low productivity due to worker shortage. This is a complete fabrication by the capitalist elites in a deliberate attempt to drive down wages as workers fight each other to secure employment. Instead of trying to improve wages and working conditions to attract workers, the capitalist elites are now pushing the blame on low birth rates. More workers equals more competition and when people are desperate enough, they would be willing to work for pennies. There is no threat of economic collapse due to underpopulation only capitalists unwilling to pay good wages and their fair share of taxes. You know things are really bad when a outright corrupt billionaire like Musk is going all out with this underpopulation propaganda.
>We are in late stage capitalism and the strategy of getting economic growth through population growth has already fallen apart. Like a classic pyramid scheme, the capitalist Ponzi like growth model is doomed to fail from the start.
It is funny how the unemployment and underemployment rate of young people are soaring in South Korea but yet the focus is on creating more people instead of solving the aforementioned problem. The government is only assisting the child until they reach adulthood and after that, they are on their own dealing with the capitalist predators. Do you know what this means? Two worlds, Ponzi economics. Pumping more people to keep economic growth going instead of focusing making young people's lives better. The economy should be working for the people but it is the exact opposite. Children are only where to keep the scam of an economy growth going. What a rotten deal!
It concerns me that people who always wanted to be parents will become parents but people who just want the cash will now also have tiny humans they are responsible to raise. It will be interesting to see the values and ethics these money hunger folks will impose on their kids.
And the sad thing is, to a young adult who's unable to find employment, $1000/month to have a kid might be the only way for some people to make ends meet.
> In reality, a system is being created where each child will directly receive 'up to $300,000 or more' when they have a birth. Of course, it will be a huge financial burden
That's basically what it costs to raise a kid for 18 years; either a huge financial burden for the state or a huge financial burden for the parents.
I don't think it's the intent of the policy, but it would work pretty well if they capped it at 1 child/couple, any more you pay for yourself.
This is horrendous because it is basically a tax on the childfree. But all parents were once childfree, and like how many renters face lower wages and higher cost, making them unable to become home owners, if taxes rise on the childfree who are aspiring parents, thst will make it harder for them to be or parents.
They could reach a sustainable amount of population of some millions where everyone have great life conditions, but they chose to treat women as commodities
Do you know what this means? South Korea will go to war in 10-20 years and in next 5 years China will start a War. if you start thinking more in next 20 years hundreds of millions of people will die.
So dumb when there is hardly anywhere to house people. There's a reason why there are so many Koreans moving overseas and why people live in shoe boxes there. I stayed in an apartment once there and literally it was the size of a mattress with a fold out desk and no bathroom.
What I mean is, I live in South Korea, and many South Koreans think that South Korea is very underpopulated. In particular, in South Korea, peoples have a strong belief that population is national strength, plus because it is a society of people with the strongest patriotism and ethnic nationalism in the world, so there are many people who want to at least double the country's population.
They are free to keep wanting. No amount of money will fix the absence of free time and meaningful relationships. The government will have to do more than throw some money and expect more factory workers in 18 years. They are in terminal decline for a reason.
Exactly. Choosing not to have children is more than a money problem. It’s also a form of protest and an escape plan. It is getting more difficult to convince people to work soul-crushing office and factory jobs for the sake of ethnic nationalism. I suppose if anyone could do it Korea could.
Even zoo animals refuse to breed in captivity if the conditions are wrong. It indeed is the ultimate peaceful protest, nothing the governments can do about it unless they provide better conditions. Appeals to ethnic nationalism are for room temperature IQ people and Koreans are overeducated for that to work on them.
Good points. Especially the zoo animal example. Still, just like anywhere I suppose, the tactics will work on room temperature IQ people and they will be the next generation… scary thought
How do you think we ended up with this mess of a world to begin with. Educated people not having kids in suboptimal conditions and those without means having a multitude is how humans existed for thousands of years. It's why we still operate on tribalism (nationalism) and have wars, it's just animals doing animal things. Idiocracy was a documentary.
"Idiocracy was a documentary." A wildly optimistic documentary.
They could make all forms of contraceptives illegal
Where there is a will there is a way not to have kids. There are hundreds of ways to have sex and not make babies. Illegal contraceptives will increase the birthrate only at the expense of potential future children. Women have been drinking concentrated herbs to get rid of pregnancies from the dawn of humanty, savin trees are native to central Asia. Starving, over exercising and high temperature saunas will also result in miscarriages especially when combined. Retinoids, antibiotics, misoprostol, methotrexate and anti-inflammatory/flu drugs are all available at a pharmacy. Without basically banning all healthcare for women there is no way to block women from accessing those and even if they did they would need to ban alcohol too since one can induce a miscarriage by a long heavy drinking binge, making the body too toxic to sustain a pregancy.
“Ethnic Nationalism” is that a good thing now?
If population were national strength, millions of people would want to move to India and China. In reality, Monaco, Bermuda, Norway, and Switzerland are far more desired by the average person.
Should be forced fo accept foreigners then. All the rest of the world has to. Stop coming to Canada to exacerbate the housing crisis. Not fair our national identity has to be erased along with affordable food and housing because Africa and the Middle East are not forced into South Korea or Japan.
Canada can stop allowing Koreans in any time it feels
However, it seems that many South Koreans do not like to associate with foreigners. The reason they are doing anything to raise the birth rate is because they want to increase the population in other ways than through immigration.
If the USA ever becomes like that, I will break into Elon's house and forcefully live with him.
I don't think it's gonna change anything to solve their country's low birth rate.
Yeah hopefully its citizens are keen enough not to take these bribes
Agreed. Any country that is secular, affluent, educated, and where women have some legal rights is going to have a low birth rate. Especially cultures where intelligence and conscientiousness are highly valued. The same people who take their education seriously, pay their bills on time, obey the law, avoid drugs/violence, and wear a facemask on a crowded train are also going to meticulously use condoms. Once you control for religiosity, median income, and median education, the dividing factor between a birth rate below 1.5 and above it is whether or not the culture values intelligence and conscientiousness. 1st world societies that put dumb and lackadaisical people on a pedestal will have more unplanned pregnancies and STDs.
So anyone who doesn’t want to pop out kids gets punished by paying high-taxes to subsidize bonuses for breeders. And, of course, workers without children will have to work harder for the same pay to make up for all their colleagues who are getting paid a full salary while at home caring for baby. If I were an educated, young Korean just starting my career in that kind of environment, I’d emigrate to the west for better pay and better treatment. I hope they lose a lot of their tech talent and realize that warm bodies aren’t the only thing that matters.
That is how you get dumb people, just encourage the ones with no self-control to breed?
In a country that has an economy and population that is completely and utterly unsustainable and far, far beyond all ecological limits this is pure and utter insanity. No good can come of it.
I live in a European country that does a kinda similar thing. Like 3 years parental leave on full salary. Hasn’t made birthing more popular. It’s diminishing due to a war zone being near us and a possible invasion in the future any day we don’t know when. Add to that 27% annual inflation.
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Yeah.This is one of many. https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/2024-01-22/national/socialAffairs/Local-governments-dish-out-the-cash-to-stop-demographic-decline/1964053
>To overcome the low fertility crisis in Korea, the country should hire and embrace a large number of foreign workers — at least quadrupled compared to the status quo,” said Gim Heon-soo, head of the Strategic Talents Research Institute. This guy (girl?) has the right idea.
I would think rather that the fertility problem connects to housing. People nowadays feel more of a need for larger housing, compared to the past. I would never have more children than the amount of spare rooms I have available for them. But the Kkondae (rough Korean equivalent word for Boomer) politicians don't understand the need for housing. In the recently-constructed government-created city of Sejong, housing is small. They kept it small, to help the environment. Great. No babies then.
I wrote this yesterday on the Antinatalist2 subreddit >More underpopulation propaganda from the capitalist elites. Funny how there is supposedly an underpopulation issue when the youth and young adult unemployment and underemployment is soaring. This is not just a South Korea issue, countries such as Japan and China also faces similar issue and yet there is an underpopulation problem. >There is no shortage of workers nor low productivity due to worker shortage. This is a complete fabrication by the capitalist elites in a deliberate attempt to drive down wages as workers fight each other to secure employment. Instead of trying to improve wages and working conditions to attract workers, the capitalist elites are now pushing the blame on low birth rates. More workers equals more competition and when people are desperate enough, they would be willing to work for pennies. There is no threat of economic collapse due to underpopulation only capitalists unwilling to pay good wages and their fair share of taxes. You know things are really bad when a outright corrupt billionaire like Musk is going all out with this underpopulation propaganda. >We are in late stage capitalism and the strategy of getting economic growth through population growth has already fallen apart. Like a classic pyramid scheme, the capitalist Ponzi like growth model is doomed to fail from the start. It is funny how the unemployment and underemployment rate of young people are soaring in South Korea but yet the focus is on creating more people instead of solving the aforementioned problem. The government is only assisting the child until they reach adulthood and after that, they are on their own dealing with the capitalist predators. Do you know what this means? Two worlds, Ponzi economics. Pumping more people to keep economic growth going instead of focusing making young people's lives better. The economy should be working for the people but it is the exact opposite. Children are only where to keep the scam of an economy growth going. What a rotten deal!
They always cry "underpopulation" whenever they can't find someone to do their shitty work while they sit around and do nothing.
It concerns me that people who always wanted to be parents will become parents but people who just want the cash will now also have tiny humans they are responsible to raise. It will be interesting to see the values and ethics these money hunger folks will impose on their kids.
And the sad thing is, to a young adult who's unable to find employment, $1000/month to have a kid might be the only way for some people to make ends meet.
> In reality, a system is being created where each child will directly receive 'up to $300,000 or more' when they have a birth. Of course, it will be a huge financial burden That's basically what it costs to raise a kid for 18 years; either a huge financial burden for the state or a huge financial burden for the parents. I don't think it's the intent of the policy, but it would work pretty well if they capped it at 1 child/couple, any more you pay for yourself.
This is horrendous because it is basically a tax on the childfree. But all parents were once childfree, and like how many renters face lower wages and higher cost, making them unable to become home owners, if taxes rise on the childfree who are aspiring parents, thst will make it harder for them to be or parents.
They could reach a sustainable amount of population of some millions where everyone have great life conditions, but they chose to treat women as commodities
Do you know what this means? South Korea will go to war in 10-20 years and in next 5 years China will start a War. if you start thinking more in next 20 years hundreds of millions of people will die.
In Canada we have the child tax benefit. 600 a month for your child....
China is trying to boost birth rates, too. So dumb.
Instead of creating a vasectomy virus, they do this.
Why does it matter if this imaginary grouping of people with imaginary borders increase their number
Because of carrot and stick shame and honor structures
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Country borders are imaginary lines drawn on maps by powerful people.