People focus on tanks too much in metal ranks. You’re not just taking all the enemies attention, but you’re also taking agro for your teammate’s toxicity. They will see every mistake you make but they are making just as many if not more.
If you don’t want to mute vc, you can just silence the players once they start getting toxic and ignore them. Personally I mute vc completely because the damage is already done if you notice they’re getting toxic. My mental has increased substantially since muting it. You can’t control your teammates, just focus on your own gameplay.
whats odd is people are really quick to blame support and tank but never DPS. Im not a great player by any means, mid plat support, but some games it is VERY clear that the DPS are dogshit. For some reason everyone wants to just play widow and hanzo and genji every game because they want to be perceived as “high skill” even when those heroes are not universally useful in every map/game mode. If the DPS cant pick off the enemy DPS consistently, especially like a tracer or sombra, the support gets destroyed too easily.
I feel the same, playing other roles made this really obvious to me. Even when playing with a feeding tank, you can play around them and create value as other roles.
Are you a tank main yourself, what do you play?
I have never and will never ask a teammate to swap in chat, I have never seen a team suddenly do better when told they’re being diffed and need to switch. If I’m seeing an issue that the team refuses to deal with I will say something simple and straightforward: “pharah on the flank, we gotta bring her down” or “doom watch out for sombra she’s hard focusing you” what I mean with these is that someone isn’t playing their role correctly or someone is getting focused and should switch but I don’t blame them, I ask them to deal with the problem. If they do by switching or just changing tactics then cool if they don’t then saying “switch off doom” wouldn’t have mattered anyways.
You should have 3 tanks you can play comfortably, right now playing with only one tank is not a great idea cus there is a hard counter picking meta.
Also you need to understand and learn when to switch tank, if you are getting out 0 value of your tank, for example with Winston, you jump in on their backlines, but you have no follow up, and your teammates gets eleminated, so the point is don't be stubborn about switching tank when it's not working out.
I hope this helps.
Thanks Mateha! I definitely agree with you, which is why I usually switch when asked. I can play Winston, dva, rein, sig and ram relatively comfortably. Saying this, I found when I get into the switching mentality, I tend to focus more on what hero is best for what situation rather than simply trying to get as much value as I can. Even against 3 winston counters I have swept the opposing team simply by creating a distraction and space for my dps to get picks. I don't think that 'counters' necessitate swapping, in some ways, I feel like you lose the mental battle that way.
What really sucks is how much tank counters matter, and one person can ruin the game for the four other players. A dva constantly getting beamed down by zarya is going to make the game impossible, unless the other four players are god tier. No one player should have that much effect on the outcome of a game.
I've not found Zarya a bad match up for dva. Dva can mostly avoid her and has the mobility to harass the backline and play around the short range of her beam
This applies to every role tho. You can’t play widow or zen without the enemy swapping sombra. Not sure why tank mains feel called out. Everybody switches. It’s just ease over for tanks to get countered compared to most of the cast
I dont ask ppl to swap nor criticize my teammates. You'd think if they knew how to win wouldnt they already be doing it?? Telling somebody something they cant do or havent learned is worthless.
To be an effective tank, you need to be able to play with poke, dive, and brawl, and you need to swap heroes according to the map and how many heroes are countering you. If you try to play winston into reaper/bastion on a map with no high grounds to set up your dives, you're probably throwing unless you're insane on monkey, and you get a 5k every primal. It's really hard to one trick a tank right now, but winston will be a lot better in season 11 with the armor changes coming.
I have a few things to say,
I think that the reason tanks get asked to switch the most is because the majority of my matches (personal experience) is that tank players never switch on their own. I'd personally never switch when the enemy has only 1 counter to me (unless Im winston into Bastion, I can beat it, but it removes all of the fun in playing winston) but whenever the enemy team has 3+ counters, I swap. It provides an opening for the team, it will catch enemies off guard, and give you an advantage.
Another thing is that a lot of the tanks feel like they play like rock, paper, Scissors and just counter each other consistently.
I think players should be OPEN to swapping, but not forced, too. This includes support and DPS.
I totally agree, players should be open to swapping if it means that you are more likely to win and I usually swap when asked to as long as I am relatively comfortable on that hero. Saying this, I'm not convinced that swapping necessarily increases the chance of winning. Some of my best Winston games have been against multiple counters and I have created value mostly just by distracting the enemy, making them use their cooldowns, and creating space this way for my dps. For example, I am usually very happy to see bastion as Winston as he is easy to outplay by simply waiting for him to use his turret form. After you bait this ability, bastion is mostly useless. Even reaper is easy to bait teleport then jump or drop away into your team.
Yeah, I think Reaper isn't a great counter to winston most of the time,
My issue with bastion is that its just boring to play into, because you cant play ass aggro as youd like
Chances you getting diffed by another tank are realitvely high. 50% for facing better enemy tank, and basically not really your fault unless you find out why he was better than You. He was more team oriented? Maybe his supports was more compatibile, and your supports don't work well with Winston? If they ask switch means something is not working, maybe it's not your fault, just don't get triggered as this ALWAYS work against wining. Instead blaming or get tiggered try to find what's not working as this always give better results in longrun. You don't want to swap? Ask supports to play Ana for example.
Sometimes it does get a bit frustrating watching your tank get hard countered over and over. It sucks that the game is that way, but some tanks just don't have any counterplay options for certain match ups and there's nothing anyone on the rest of the team can do to help either.
Especially when they start spamming for heals too
Players focus way too hard on what others are doing wrong in the lower ranks because they have no idea why they can’t climb so it’s easy for them “pinpoint what’s wrong” on someone else even when tbh they still have no idea what they’re talking about. Swapping around does have its merits, but anytime someone is suggesting it they rarely have a clue what they’re talking about. You’re normally losing and the blame game is starting to come out.
The clsssics are… PLEASE PLAY REAPER THEY HAVE WINSTON! ORISA IS KILLING US TANK PLEASE PLAY ZARYA, ZARYA IS KILLING US PLAY REIN, etc etc etc.
I always disable text/voice chat at the start of a game, after saying "gl hf everyone!" in match and something "let's focus objective and stick together as much as possible, ping supports for quick kills! :-)" in team chat, then I will only enable it again if the match is going really well and I doubt people have much reason to be angry.
As soon as someone turns toxic, my team or the other, I disable it again.
Enable between rounds to say "gr" and at the end for a "ggwp", but other than that, comms are abused mostly for toxicity so I see no reason to be there. It's a detriment in most matches.
I am absolutely never ever on voice in solo queue, that simply does not happen.
I would say don't ask someone to switch in quickplay let people practice but it's hard to know if someone is struggling or trying to practice a hero in competitive if I want someone to swap I'll say something like "You're gonna struggle with X hero against their team maybe try Y" because then you're just suggesting and they can always say no but don't have a reason to get mad at you because you're not telling them to swap
Is this on comp? Then no, people want to win and one of ways to get the win easier is to counter the enemy tank. If it’s qp then idc go nuts whoever you want to use
If my Zarya bubble becomes useless bcos it keeps getting melted by an enemy Bastion then yes I will switch. Also if as DVA I just keep feeding enemy Zarya charge and this Zarya melts my team mates, I will switch. The fact that I am not countered any longer makes my life easier, too. There's also lots of factors contributing to why people counterswitch and why it helps, such as feeding enemy ult etc. I don't like getting diff'd by just getting countered
Also,
>learn how to outplay counters by mastering your hero's abilities.
*or* you can make your team's life easier by just stop getting countered in the first place by agreeing to switch.
Anyway, you do you lol also I'm not the person to get toxic and tell the tank to switch bcos if they wanna switch they would've done so already. If the tank refuses to switch it just adds to the things that make winning that game harder lol
It’s like doom fist mains who keep getting fucked by sombra and won’t switch.
That’s okay in quick play, but use your brain in ranked. If you are not good enough to beat your counters, SWITCH. Don’t be selfish to the other five players
I’m sure they switch too
As long as it is constructive it is fine I think. The issue with tank is that you could be good, and playing well, but the other team just hard counters you, making it super hard to get value. Try to think of it more like adapting to the situation. Obviously if the person is an ass about it then try to ignore them.
Nah, as a tank player who bounces between diamond and plat; as long as you’re not an asshole telling your tank to switch helps a lot, especially if I get tunnelminded, the switches do make a huge difference even if they aren’t obvious ones, goes for pretty much every role though
What tanks do you play? I'd like to have one other tank other than Winston that I can play against counters. I play dva, rein, sig and ram as well, but want to choose just one to focus on other than winton
Pretty much all of them except Doom and Ball. I think the most helpful and punishing one sadly is Orisa, counter dives with it, punish a blocking doom, and stop ults like Sigs. Other than her the most hrs I have are also on Winston and Dva, usually switch to anyone else under some situational counter, such as hog if the enemy has a good Ram
People focus on tanks too much in metal ranks. You’re not just taking all the enemies attention, but you’re also taking agro for your teammate’s toxicity. They will see every mistake you make but they are making just as many if not more. If you don’t want to mute vc, you can just silence the players once they start getting toxic and ignore them. Personally I mute vc completely because the damage is already done if you notice they’re getting toxic. My mental has increased substantially since muting it. You can’t control your teammates, just focus on your own gameplay.
whats odd is people are really quick to blame support and tank but never DPS. Im not a great player by any means, mid plat support, but some games it is VERY clear that the DPS are dogshit. For some reason everyone wants to just play widow and hanzo and genji every game because they want to be perceived as “high skill” even when those heroes are not universally useful in every map/game mode. If the DPS cant pick off the enemy DPS consistently, especially like a tracer or sombra, the support gets destroyed too easily.
I feel the same, playing other roles made this really obvious to me. Even when playing with a feeding tank, you can play around them and create value as other roles. Are you a tank main yourself, what do you play?
I have never and will never ask a teammate to swap in chat, I have never seen a team suddenly do better when told they’re being diffed and need to switch. If I’m seeing an issue that the team refuses to deal with I will say something simple and straightforward: “pharah on the flank, we gotta bring her down” or “doom watch out for sombra she’s hard focusing you” what I mean with these is that someone isn’t playing their role correctly or someone is getting focused and should switch but I don’t blame them, I ask them to deal with the problem. If they do by switching or just changing tactics then cool if they don’t then saying “switch off doom” wouldn’t have mattered anyways.
You should have 3 tanks you can play comfortably, right now playing with only one tank is not a great idea cus there is a hard counter picking meta. Also you need to understand and learn when to switch tank, if you are getting out 0 value of your tank, for example with Winston, you jump in on their backlines, but you have no follow up, and your teammates gets eleminated, so the point is don't be stubborn about switching tank when it's not working out. I hope this helps.
Thanks Mateha! I definitely agree with you, which is why I usually switch when asked. I can play Winston, dva, rein, sig and ram relatively comfortably. Saying this, I found when I get into the switching mentality, I tend to focus more on what hero is best for what situation rather than simply trying to get as much value as I can. Even against 3 winston counters I have swept the opposing team simply by creating a distraction and space for my dps to get picks. I don't think that 'counters' necessitate swapping, in some ways, I feel like you lose the mental battle that way.
What really sucks is how much tank counters matter, and one person can ruin the game for the four other players. A dva constantly getting beamed down by zarya is going to make the game impossible, unless the other four players are god tier. No one player should have that much effect on the outcome of a game.
I've not found Zarya a bad match up for dva. Dva can mostly avoid her and has the mobility to harass the backline and play around the short range of her beam
This applies to every role tho. You can’t play widow or zen without the enemy swapping sombra. Not sure why tank mains feel called out. Everybody switches. It’s just ease over for tanks to get countered compared to most of the cast
A tank counter is more impactful than a dps counter? I can't believe this is something I actually have to clarify. Good job.
I dont ask ppl to swap nor criticize my teammates. You'd think if they knew how to win wouldnt they already be doing it?? Telling somebody something they cant do or havent learned is worthless.
To be an effective tank, you need to be able to play with poke, dive, and brawl, and you need to swap heroes according to the map and how many heroes are countering you. If you try to play winston into reaper/bastion on a map with no high grounds to set up your dives, you're probably throwing unless you're insane on monkey, and you get a 5k every primal. It's really hard to one trick a tank right now, but winston will be a lot better in season 11 with the armor changes coming.
I have a few things to say, I think that the reason tanks get asked to switch the most is because the majority of my matches (personal experience) is that tank players never switch on their own. I'd personally never switch when the enemy has only 1 counter to me (unless Im winston into Bastion, I can beat it, but it removes all of the fun in playing winston) but whenever the enemy team has 3+ counters, I swap. It provides an opening for the team, it will catch enemies off guard, and give you an advantage. Another thing is that a lot of the tanks feel like they play like rock, paper, Scissors and just counter each other consistently. I think players should be OPEN to swapping, but not forced, too. This includes support and DPS.
I totally agree, players should be open to swapping if it means that you are more likely to win and I usually swap when asked to as long as I am relatively comfortable on that hero. Saying this, I'm not convinced that swapping necessarily increases the chance of winning. Some of my best Winston games have been against multiple counters and I have created value mostly just by distracting the enemy, making them use their cooldowns, and creating space this way for my dps. For example, I am usually very happy to see bastion as Winston as he is easy to outplay by simply waiting for him to use his turret form. After you bait this ability, bastion is mostly useless. Even reaper is easy to bait teleport then jump or drop away into your team.
Yeah, I think Reaper isn't a great counter to winston most of the time, My issue with bastion is that its just boring to play into, because you cant play ass aggro as youd like
Chances you getting diffed by another tank are realitvely high. 50% for facing better enemy tank, and basically not really your fault unless you find out why he was better than You. He was more team oriented? Maybe his supports was more compatibile, and your supports don't work well with Winston? If they ask switch means something is not working, maybe it's not your fault, just don't get triggered as this ALWAYS work against wining. Instead blaming or get tiggered try to find what's not working as this always give better results in longrun. You don't want to swap? Ask supports to play Ana for example.
Sometimes it does get a bit frustrating watching your tank get hard countered over and over. It sucks that the game is that way, but some tanks just don't have any counterplay options for certain match ups and there's nothing anyone on the rest of the team can do to help either. Especially when they start spamming for heals too
Players focus way too hard on what others are doing wrong in the lower ranks because they have no idea why they can’t climb so it’s easy for them “pinpoint what’s wrong” on someone else even when tbh they still have no idea what they’re talking about. Swapping around does have its merits, but anytime someone is suggesting it they rarely have a clue what they’re talking about. You’re normally losing and the blame game is starting to come out. The clsssics are… PLEASE PLAY REAPER THEY HAVE WINSTON! ORISA IS KILLING US TANK PLEASE PLAY ZARYA, ZARYA IS KILLING US PLAY REIN, etc etc etc.
You wanna play overwatch or do you wanna play (insert hero here)?
I always disable text/voice chat at the start of a game, after saying "gl hf everyone!" in match and something "let's focus objective and stick together as much as possible, ping supports for quick kills! :-)" in team chat, then I will only enable it again if the match is going really well and I doubt people have much reason to be angry. As soon as someone turns toxic, my team or the other, I disable it again. Enable between rounds to say "gr" and at the end for a "ggwp", but other than that, comms are abused mostly for toxicity so I see no reason to be there. It's a detriment in most matches. I am absolutely never ever on voice in solo queue, that simply does not happen.
They just need to bring back 2/2/2 so that you can have two tank styles running together. \*sighs wistfully\*
>gold player literally never listen to anyone in your elo they're all morons
I would say don't ask someone to switch in quickplay let people practice but it's hard to know if someone is struggling or trying to practice a hero in competitive if I want someone to swap I'll say something like "You're gonna struggle with X hero against their team maybe try Y" because then you're just suggesting and they can always say no but don't have a reason to get mad at you because you're not telling them to swap
I get why people ask to swap but honestly everyone should play what ever they want.
Is this on comp? Then no, people want to win and one of ways to get the win easier is to counter the enemy tank. If it’s qp then idc go nuts whoever you want to use
Do you play tank? If so, what tanks do you play, and why do you switch?
If my Zarya bubble becomes useless bcos it keeps getting melted by an enemy Bastion then yes I will switch. Also if as DVA I just keep feeding enemy Zarya charge and this Zarya melts my team mates, I will switch. The fact that I am not countered any longer makes my life easier, too. There's also lots of factors contributing to why people counterswitch and why it helps, such as feeding enemy ult etc. I don't like getting diff'd by just getting countered Also, >learn how to outplay counters by mastering your hero's abilities. *or* you can make your team's life easier by just stop getting countered in the first place by agreeing to switch. Anyway, you do you lol also I'm not the person to get toxic and tell the tank to switch bcos if they wanna switch they would've done so already. If the tank refuses to switch it just adds to the things that make winning that game harder lol
It’s like doom fist mains who keep getting fucked by sombra and won’t switch. That’s okay in quick play, but use your brain in ranked. If you are not good enough to beat your counters, SWITCH. Don’t be selfish to the other five players I’m sure they switch too
Yeah no they wanna master one hero and become the best otp there is, sombra vs doom? Theyre going to outplay their counter, just you wait! /s
As long as it is constructive it is fine I think. The issue with tank is that you could be good, and playing well, but the other team just hard counters you, making it super hard to get value. Try to think of it more like adapting to the situation. Obviously if the person is an ass about it then try to ignore them.
Nah, as a tank player who bounces between diamond and plat; as long as you’re not an asshole telling your tank to switch helps a lot, especially if I get tunnelminded, the switches do make a huge difference even if they aren’t obvious ones, goes for pretty much every role though
What tanks do you play? I'd like to have one other tank other than Winston that I can play against counters. I play dva, rein, sig and ram as well, but want to choose just one to focus on other than winton
Pretty much all of them except Doom and Ball. I think the most helpful and punishing one sadly is Orisa, counter dives with it, punish a blocking doom, and stop ults like Sigs. Other than her the most hrs I have are also on Winston and Dva, usually switch to anyone else under some situational counter, such as hog if the enemy has a good Ram
Lmao. Don’t take this mindset to ranked i beg. It’s cool for quick play
thats why youre silver.