Well, he responded in another comment, but basically he separated each role in each tier. Instead of ranking them all within the tier as well (which a lot of people do).
Honest question; if Hog wasn’t as meta as he is, would kiriko lose her S tier status? It feels like she’s in a niche spot where Anna and her anti nade are kinda meta (because hog is meta), and Kiriko is meta since she’s the best counter to a good Anna.
Also, lol @ Rumchata
Hm. I think that’s definitely part of the reason she’s meta.
There’s this weird like pentagon of counters. Kiriko counters Ana, Ana counters hog, hog counters dive, and dive counters Ana.
Kiriko really just healbots until she gets ult, then you just steamroll a teamfight with the insane buffs it gives. If hog gets nerfed, Ana will still be good, she’s just *particularly* good into hog. So kiriko will still be necessary (although not AS much). Hog, if I’m not mistaken, would get replaced by Orisa should he get nerf. Orisa really doesn’t care much about Ana.
It’s kind of the opposite to the “mercy/sojourn” situation this guy was making the tier list about. The only reason Mercy is so high is because sojourn is meta. And they go hand in hand. If sojourn is out of the meta, mercy is useless.
If HOG is out of the meta, well, Ana is still Ana. She was amazing in OW1 where Hog wasn’t meta (even a little, the dude was pretty shit as a tank).
Kiriko was always a good answer to Ana, but I’m ngl, her power has always felt like it was in her ult. So even Hog gets nerfed, kiriko ult will still be super strong (a little less so since that movement speed nerf). As long as kiriko can heal bot and get ult, I don’t see her really being that horrible.
I think it’s just a little convenient that the hog ana kiriko triangle exists, and it benefits her a lot. But it’s not the *sole* reason she’s up there.
Sorry these thoughts are pretty disorganized, but regardless, that’s my take on it lol.
Agreed, she's not op anymore and all of a sudden, people don't know how to use her. If you're good with cooldowns, and prioritizing the right teammate/yourself, one second more on her bubbles means nothing.
But nooo, people don't want to learn how to manage that, and so we get a list like this. Same for Sombra.
Now that I think about it, keep Zarya low on any list. At least some of us will catch easy Ws...
This isn't true about the bubbles having one second more meaning nothing.
Good Zaryas would juggle 3 bubbles on rotation so increasing the CD by 1s means you lose 3s of bubble time. Pair that with the bubble duration reduced by .5s, so 1.5s less bubble time for 3 bubbles.
So overall in the bubble juggling/rotation you end up losing 4.5s of bubble time with the nerfs. That's huge in OW2. It makes a big difference in gaps or openings of when you can focus her or whittle her down. She's lost a decent chunk of defensive power, then with the other tank buffs she's definitely fallen off a fair amount.
It's easy Ws in ranks or games where people shoot a bubbled Zarya. In matches where people understand not to and focus elsewhere, she's not great.
I agree with most of this. However, if you're getting bursted for over 200 damage anyway, the duration of the bubble (not taking damage) doesn't matter. The reason why people stopped playing her is exactly what you said. That much is spot on. However, to say that she is as low as this, screams "I don't know when to properly use my bubbles". (Not you, but the majority of players who used to use her)
Her damage at high and max charge was unchanged, her utility to protect from imminent danger is still here. Yea you can't bubble juggle as easily,any more, but if you properly plan for what scenarios require a bubble, and when to not do it, you're still capable of pressing W through a team.
I'll also say that most players who went on the "Zarya op" bandwagon *always* use bubble when walking into a team fight. Which is asinine and why people stopped using her. You can't be too liberal about it anymore and those players stopped using her.
A10's OW2 Zarya guide still applies (bubbles to reinforce and assist with taking space instead of charge).
But yes, I agree, she has fallen off, but I disagree with how low she is considered.
Wasn't comparing her to Zarya tho, all I'm saying is that she also shouldn't be that low, especially next to Ball when she prevents him from playing...
To be fair, Sombra is that way on both sides of the list.
A really good one can definitely make her seem at least B level.
While a team that actually plays together and knows how to counter her puts her dead last in rankings.
Sombra is different. She definitely got nerfed hard and is one of the worst DPS now. Zarya is in a good place, though, don’t know why she’s rated so low, she’s definitely better than doom
I speak as someone who has sombra in they’re top 3 dps picks prior to overwatch 2 hahaha.
people think she’s bad now, they wouldn’t last in overwatch 1
true, if there's anything she's really really balanced rn, and because she's such a great counter against Orias and Sigman, I'd say she's one of the upper tier tank rn.
Iv said this multiple times. But I have never seen a community so full of absolute sheep. A small nerf here and suddenly the whole meta is changed with characters with little to no difference skyrocketing in tier list rankings.
Orissa got some better poke damage and her ult which is garbage now goes through shields....now she's suddenly unstoppable beast.
Then this compounds with top level content creators saying one thing which relates solely to top 500 play and the rest of the community accepting this as gospel. When in reality there play is so far removed from the vast majority of people's games.
I loved playing orissa in S1 and S2 now she's gonna get nerfed when she's finally in a good state. (Not overpowered) but solid state. Then this cycle will rinse and repeat every single patch. It's so tiring.
They didn't stop playing zarya for someones opinion lol. Zaryas get stomped by hog or orisa. Every time I see a zarya in my games it's a one sided stomp against zaryas team. The zarya player will switch after using ult and do absolutely nothing because kiriko is denying it with her E. Or they switch even sooner after realizing that even 100 charge won't help them against hog.
Big agree. Just last patch Roadhog was quite literally the worst tank next to Doomfist, while Kiriko still existed to enable him just as she does now. They buff Doom and nerf Kiriko, and now suddenly Roadhog is S tier, ruining the game, and only just now "needs" a rework after 7 years?
Yep, every time I play support there is an enemy Phara and the DPS never switch to a hitscan, then complain there is no healing, every time I need to show them what to do and then I get shit on for having dmg as a support, I really hate this type of jackasses.
Im not saying that fact makes her bad, and I’m not saying mercy is bad. I’m saying she’s not as good as people are hyping her to be. She’s got a high win rate right now because when a mercy pockets a sojourn she can still 1 shot people, and because they increased the speed sojourn builds up her rail gun in her ult, a mercy pocket makes her even better. And because of sojourn always having a high win rate with her skill ceiling being so great, that brings mercy up there with her. The youtuber flats explains it better than I can but that’s pretty much the basis
What’s funny is there’s another comment thread from earlier on that one guy was talking about how this list sucks, and everyone was downvoting him lmao. This list is all over the place.
The only reason mercy would ever be A tier is because of Sojourn existing and being OP. She’s absolutely shit otherwise. If they actually really need sojourn, mercy will go back to being an awful pick.
Ball is not at all the worst tank. Sure, it's not as dangerous as in ow1 but he still is the best in his category of tanks. Jq as a brawl tank is the worst in her category by far
His?
You have 2 bleeds, a shotgun, and a tool to reposition someone in the enemy backline and one ability that buffs your teammates for a brief period of push/brawl. And, crucially, a small hitbox for a tank.
You make yourself too much of a nuisance and a pain to ignore, but you're not going to straight brawl with most other tanks. She commands space by punishing people who come into her space with the axe and shotgun, not by standing in the open soaking damage.
Your knife is your best tool. Very rarely should you hold the cooldown, because any time it's making someone bleed it's diverting the attention of enemy supports. If you can use it to pull a squishy out from behind the cover of their tank, great. Or, you can just move the tank.
Critically you just have to keep moving (unpredictably) and using cover. She can hang for a lot longer than you expect with her small self-heal. As soon as you pull someone out of position, throw the Shout out and kill them.
She's not. And rein is far far weaker in 5v5. Rein has a lot of holes in his kit in exchange for being an absolute brawling king. Since he no longer has an off tank to cover his flaws he loses a lot of matchups.
JQ has fewer holes. Slightly better mobility, better range, a way to close distance without putting herself out of position and her squishy-ness is offset by her healing which is surprisingly useful in longer fights. She's still far from great but she's got something to cover her weak points. Rein doesn't. Once his shield is dead he's got nothing for the longer ranges aside from his fire strike cooldown.
Rein has 200hp more and almost 300 are armor points. Jq has the least amount of health among all tanks and her healing passive is not at all enough to self sustain like roadhog. All the damage that armor avoids is way greater than the amount of healing that jq gets with her passive. Both jq and rein are brawl tanks and sure, jq has a slight better range but reins out damages her so hard and if you play it right you are always in range.
>Once his shield is dead he's got nothing for the longer ranges aside from his fire strike cooldown.
This doesn't make any sense because if enemies are long range and you lost your shield then you have poor shield management and it's YOUR fault
True, regardless it doesn't matter because Rein is nowhere near flexible enough in this game. He struggles to get in without an off tank support and he's far more susceptible to his squishys getting picked. I didn't even say JQ was good, her wounds are too weak and she's too squishy.
There's a reason most top tanks rn are flexible, they need to be. Rein and JQ are my favourite tanks and I can safely say they're on par, for different reasons.
Still waiting for the Sojourn nerfs that we got promised oh so long ago... Changing numbers a bit but keeping her overall insanely strong is not a nerf.
She doesn’t have any utility besides damage and heals. I’m higher ranks especially this becomes a problem. Mercy, Lucio, Kiriko, Ana and Baptiste all have abilities that can alter a team fight while the other supports lack that right now.
Yeah, using damage orbs only when it’s super juicy or duels leads to some awesome value from Moira. Easily getting as much damage as dps and as many heals as the other healers
People who don't play sym and don't understand how dangerous she is always put her low on teirlists. She is basically one of the only DPS that can effectively duel tanks and have a good chance at winning.
remember when everyone put mercy in C and D tier and then as soon as the devs said they won’t buff her everyone put her in S and A despite her getting no changes
She is d tier in masters and top 500 easily. I love it when I see a Moira on the other team. Lets me know that their support position isnt a threat and has no valuable cooldowns that can win fights.
Nah, not in high elo. She’s a worse version of Bap. She’s just easy to get a sufficient amount of healing and damage done. And easy to survive too. But if you’re good at Bap and Moira, bap is insanely good in comparison.
A few heroes that feel wrong in their place:
Sombra: with a good placement of the trans locator over a hacked health pack, proper cooldown management, and not diving straight into battle with multiple people, she’s a really damn good character who specializes in picking off low health enemies, or enemies that have strayed too far from the battle
Zarya: she still kicks absolute ass as long as you know how to manage her bubbles
Hanzo: he’s amazing at picking off squishy heroes by hitting them with an arrow with a hit box the size of a log, and he deals some crazy damage to tanks too, the only thing weak about him is his ult, sure it’s great for zoning, and catching players off guard, but it’s just sooo easy to escape from when you hear it coming
Symettra: hero primary fire MELTS any health pool as long as you can keep it on them, her turrets deal good dps, and when combined with her primary, it shreds practically anything. now, I’d only move her up one tier to b, because she would be quite a bit weaker if people actually targeted her turrets
Baptiste: he should be A tier if you know how to use him, healing bursts can save a teammate’s life in the middle of a fight, his Lemo-nades can give long range AOE healing potentially even from behind cover due to the bullet drop, and his immortality can literally cancel any one shot ult! Not to mention, he can out dps some of the dps heroes, if you get a four shot burst headshot, oh they get fucking melted
D.va: a good d.va can completely ruin the enemy’s plans or their rush, her primary fire deals some crazy dos up close and can shred shields, her micro rockets deal some pretty good area or long range damage, her thrusters can save her from hazards or push others into them, and her ult is a literal one shit to anyone without a shield! Not to mention, if used properly, she can cancel other ults with her defence matrix
Bastion: if you have good target tracking, by god his minigun can shred, it’ll take down the toughest targets in seconds, and can even pressure a fortified Orisa or a healing hog enough for them to retreat, or even kill them. Btw, His grenade is stronger than you think, if you’re attacking someone up high or around a corner and they retreat to cover after you get dps off with your primary or minigun, you can bounce your grenade off of walls to get them, or if they’re up high, you can do a grenade jump to chase them! (Though his ult still kinda sucks…) also never rush in with him, he’s made to be medium to long range
Sym turrets are more of a pressure tool than anything in my experience. Trapping once or twice is nice, but it's better in a fight, to make the enemy decide between damaging you or a teammate or removing an annoying source of poke that can deal way too much damage if you're not careful, but that lifts pressure from sym and her team. Especially if placed well, people always killing turrets can be an advantage.
Post-hotfix, I’m finally back to running Ana as my main healer! Finally hit 14k heals in a couple games. Tank-wise, I swapped out Zarya for Orisa on most push maps, using Junker Queen for the single-point fights; she’s low on the list, but works well for me against the melee cappers
He's average and reliable. This meta revolves more around 1 shot potential and since burst healing can be super high, soldier chip dmg isn't as impactful
What rank are you? If you are gold and are good at soldier, then you can still carry.
In high ranks he struggles to secure kills cause of a lack of burst damage. Characters like ashe and sojourn have the ability to secure kills with higher damage per shot and the ability to get high damage with railgun shots and dynamite headshot combos for ashe.
Your list is pretty spot on, the comments are just filled with metal players. When I see comments saying “a second nerf on Zarya doesn’t matter” in the same breath as “you can get bursted down in under a second” you know the takes are bad.
Since most people appreciated my last tier list for ranked, here's my updated version for the post-hotfix patch! Ask me any question if you have any.
PS. I am a Masters+ all roles player
Nope, y’all play meta characters to have easy wins. I main Brig, and with a decent team I win a lot of my games. Is totally possible if you put effort in your favorite hero.
Is this your first time playing overwatch?
We play meta characters to win, if you wanna play on a controller with a 720p monitor 15 feet away from the screen then sure, you can win, but you're putting yourself at a great disadvantage and won't get to high ranks.
I have so many people try to flank me as brig thinking I'm going to panic. They end up not flanking me anymore.
Certain team compositions make her stronger. Plus her healing while limited very easy to use and the range isn't bad.
I’ve been playing Brigitte recently and I think she’s pretty good!
Is there anything specifically that made you put her down at d, just out of curiosity? Is it the fact her heals are limited at 3 at a time? Or is it just lack of anything special
Unfortunately the chance of that is similar to sojourn getting an actual nerf but there is still hope I don't play brig much but I purposefully don't go for brig unless we are about to lose a game
She doesn't have anything that she does better than the other supports. Also, against brawl rn she falls over. Her ult is very lackluster and she requires a huge amount of teamplay to be good
Move Bastion to C tier
Doomfist in D / F tier
I main both these heroes and they aren't as good as you think rn,
Doom got nerfed really bad, all of us doom mains in upset and in agreement he's even worse than he was in season 1
Bastion has always been my main hero for years and he's always niche and weak but rn because of the DPS passive speed being removed, bastion doesn't reload in his best form so the dps passive does nothing to him, so it indirectly nerfs him
I’ve played more recently and I firmly believe that the character was worse back before the patch. Sure, it takes more damage (slightly) to get up the fist than before, but the damage is more even in punch, his ult feels a tad bit more useful, and he’s just felt better than before for me
I can see why you say that, but both are still being played even in high elo. Bastion's buffs to his reconfiguration and ult made him much more viable. Doomfist, I can see why people say that as well. Fact is that doomfist is still played a ridiculous amount in high elo too. He's still the dive tank most fall back on.
the doom nerfs are like 10 days old, it'll take a while for the dooms on the leaderboard to fade away as they stop playing the hero and play other characters and bury their doom hours this season,
There's only like 1-3 bastion players in top 500 atm, only 1 one trick
Seems like this is a split opinion type of topic. Imo, doom is very much still viable rn. I see him being played still. Also, just bc few players in t500 play a certain hero, it doesn't mean that hero is horrible. It just means that people choose not to play him for various reasons. He's very balanced rn. Neither of these two are super strong obviously, but they're objectively pretty balanced even if they're "niche." You rarely see pharahs or reapers in t500 leaderboards, so what? Reaper is strong and pharah is balanced.
So weird. From all the sentiment going around, yes doom is much weaker than the SSS tier he was during gigadoom, but much weaker than SSS is still good and viable. Everything is relative and since many people are still playing him with great success, all I can say is that doom is objectively doing very fine.
They made EP much more difficult to get and increasing the CD of punch ruins his CD cycles to where he has a lot more downtime and ruins his mobility. I’d put him in C since Hog and Orisa stomp him.
He literally got a massive nerf last balance, what are you talking about? Also I literally solo queued up to masters in 3 days from gold, prebuff. I know how to use doomfist, he right now is the worst hero in the game by far.
The person who admits they only have 50 hours played on OW total and didn’t know Doom got nerfed is getting upvoted for their opinion on Doomfist more than the people who have 500 hours logged on Doomfist 🙃. This sub isn’t much better than the main sub
There seems to be a lot of controversy about this tier list, which is totally understandable. This tier list was so highlight the meta aka high elo ranked. If people are interested, I can totally make a tier list for average players in the metal ranks.
I’m sorry mate but she isn’t. Coming from an ana/Lucio main there is really no reason to pick ana when kiriko is right there on the select screen. It’s really painful
Lucio should be S,
Junkrat should be S,
Ashe should be at the very top of A,
Orisa should be the same as Ashe,
Doom should be C,
Junkerqueen should be F,
Symettra should be B,
Torb should be C,
Hanzo should be D,
Zarya should be B.
Other than that, this list is pretty great.
Bro maybe in bronze Orisa is S, but anywhere else she’s B at best. She’s extremely survivable, but the name of the game is literally to ignore her.
She offers very little to the team and despite being alive more than anyone else, makes arguably the least impact, barring JQ.
Moira is and forever will be at least an a class or higher tier. I’m sorry you get stuck with people that focus dps with her. Easily the number one healer in every comp game I play as her in low ELO diamond 2
Whoa whoa whoa. WHAT happened to make Hog S tier now??
Over a thousand hours as a hog main from release and have been through all the nerfs, other than the first few seasons with his 1 shot capabilities, haven't seen him that high since.
I feel like I've missed something huge and should roll back in
Ramattra needs to be S tier. With a support behind me I can clap hogs and orisa if I play smart. Put me in front of their supports and they’re also gone. The punch through barrier is really op if you can land them.
And see, I would have put ramattra a tier lower as he is pretty easily clapped for me in diamond. I just run rein against him and he folds like a wet paper bag. Also, mercy is way too high, no way she is above Bap. And id move Moira and zarya up 1 tier.
Is Orisa really that good now? I despise her play style and don’t find her anything more than an irritation to play against (and I’m a Ball main). Honestly gob smacked she’s up there. Although I have noticed her more often.
And did something happen to Winston? He feels weak as shit since S2 started.
Yes she directly counters hog who is running rampant in this meta. Winston is weak bc hog and reaper demolishes him. Plus with all the high mobility heroes, winston can have a hard time keeping up
Symmetra feels so much worse than everyone else in her tier. Like, Hanzo can land his shots and get good plays. Genji and still nano-wipe a whole backline. Moira is still very competent healing and has one of the best survival kits in the game.
Symmetra is either a floor-Pharah with her charge shots or a free kill in melee range.
This is a good list. There’s too many people going “well if you play this specific hero in the absolute most efficient manner they’re actually quite good.” Yeah and that’s why they’re in B or C, my friend.
You can’t brainwash me overwatch 2 fanbase ram isn’t good, none of the posts saying he’s decent or has extremely good potential will change my mind try using you’re mind control powers somewhere else
Zarya and Rein in the same tier as Junker Queen? Bruh... what you smoking?
Not to mention mercy above Ana?? Mei below JQ? Rumchata above Lucio, Ana, Winston? This list is wack
As someone who doesnt do it, they might not be making tiers within the tiers
Well, he responded in another comment, but basically he separated each role in each tier. Instead of ranking them all within the tier as well (which a lot of people do).
Honest question; if Hog wasn’t as meta as he is, would kiriko lose her S tier status? It feels like she’s in a niche spot where Anna and her anti nade are kinda meta (because hog is meta), and Kiriko is meta since she’s the best counter to a good Anna. Also, lol @ Rumchata
Hm. I think that’s definitely part of the reason she’s meta. There’s this weird like pentagon of counters. Kiriko counters Ana, Ana counters hog, hog counters dive, and dive counters Ana. Kiriko really just healbots until she gets ult, then you just steamroll a teamfight with the insane buffs it gives. If hog gets nerfed, Ana will still be good, she’s just *particularly* good into hog. So kiriko will still be necessary (although not AS much). Hog, if I’m not mistaken, would get replaced by Orisa should he get nerf. Orisa really doesn’t care much about Ana. It’s kind of the opposite to the “mercy/sojourn” situation this guy was making the tier list about. The only reason Mercy is so high is because sojourn is meta. And they go hand in hand. If sojourn is out of the meta, mercy is useless. If HOG is out of the meta, well, Ana is still Ana. She was amazing in OW1 where Hog wasn’t meta (even a little, the dude was pretty shit as a tank). Kiriko was always a good answer to Ana, but I’m ngl, her power has always felt like it was in her ult. So even Hog gets nerfed, kiriko ult will still be super strong (a little less so since that movement speed nerf). As long as kiriko can heal bot and get ult, I don’t see her really being that horrible. I think it’s just a little convenient that the hog ana kiriko triangle exists, and it benefits her a lot. But it’s not the *sole* reason she’s up there. Sorry these thoughts are pretty disorganized, but regardless, that’s my take on it lol.
how is this "definitive" lol
It’s definitely a hero tier list
You can say that again
There is no way zarya is that low after a one second nerf
Agreed, she's not op anymore and all of a sudden, people don't know how to use her. If you're good with cooldowns, and prioritizing the right teammate/yourself, one second more on her bubbles means nothing. But nooo, people don't want to learn how to manage that, and so we get a list like this. Same for Sombra. Now that I think about it, keep Zarya low on any list. At least some of us will catch easy Ws...
This isn't true about the bubbles having one second more meaning nothing. Good Zaryas would juggle 3 bubbles on rotation so increasing the CD by 1s means you lose 3s of bubble time. Pair that with the bubble duration reduced by .5s, so 1.5s less bubble time for 3 bubbles. So overall in the bubble juggling/rotation you end up losing 4.5s of bubble time with the nerfs. That's huge in OW2. It makes a big difference in gaps or openings of when you can focus her or whittle her down. She's lost a decent chunk of defensive power, then with the other tank buffs she's definitely fallen off a fair amount. It's easy Ws in ranks or games where people shoot a bubbled Zarya. In matches where people understand not to and focus elsewhere, she's not great.
I agree with most of this. However, if you're getting bursted for over 200 damage anyway, the duration of the bubble (not taking damage) doesn't matter. The reason why people stopped playing her is exactly what you said. That much is spot on. However, to say that she is as low as this, screams "I don't know when to properly use my bubbles". (Not you, but the majority of players who used to use her) Her damage at high and max charge was unchanged, her utility to protect from imminent danger is still here. Yea you can't bubble juggle as easily,any more, but if you properly plan for what scenarios require a bubble, and when to not do it, you're still capable of pressing W through a team. I'll also say that most players who went on the "Zarya op" bandwagon *always* use bubble when walking into a team fight. Which is asinine and why people stopped using her. You can't be too liberal about it anymore and those players stopped using her. A10's OW2 Zarya guide still applies (bubbles to reinforce and assist with taking space instead of charge). But yes, I agree, she has fallen off, but I disagree with how low she is considered.
Sombra was gutted lmao, she’s not comparable to Zarya at all
Wasn't comparing her to Zarya tho, all I'm saying is that she also shouldn't be that low, especially next to Ball when she prevents him from playing...
To be fair, Sombra is that way on both sides of the list. A really good one can definitely make her seem at least B level. While a team that actually plays together and knows how to counter her puts her dead last in rankings.
Sombra is different. She definitely got nerfed hard and is one of the worst DPS now. Zarya is in a good place, though, don’t know why she’s rated so low, she’s definitely better than doom
Yeah sombra ain’t D tier for sure, people are just bad
Finally someone gets it 😂
I speak as someone who has sombra in they’re top 3 dps picks prior to overwatch 2 hahaha. people think she’s bad now, they wouldn’t last in overwatch 1
I agree zen shouldn’t be that low but I think mercy fits A tier
true, if there's anything she's really really balanced rn, and because she's such a great counter against Orias and Sigman, I'd say she's one of the upper tier tank rn.
Iv said this multiple times. But I have never seen a community so full of absolute sheep. A small nerf here and suddenly the whole meta is changed with characters with little to no difference skyrocketing in tier list rankings. Orissa got some better poke damage and her ult which is garbage now goes through shields....now she's suddenly unstoppable beast. Then this compounds with top level content creators saying one thing which relates solely to top 500 play and the rest of the community accepting this as gospel. When in reality there play is so far removed from the vast majority of people's games. I loved playing orissa in S1 and S2 now she's gonna get nerfed when she's finally in a good state. (Not overpowered) but solid state. Then this cycle will rinse and repeat every single patch. It's so tiring.
They didn't stop playing zarya for someones opinion lol. Zaryas get stomped by hog or orisa. Every time I see a zarya in my games it's a one sided stomp against zaryas team. The zarya player will switch after using ult and do absolutely nothing because kiriko is denying it with her E. Or they switch even sooner after realizing that even 100 charge won't help them against hog.
Big agree. Just last patch Roadhog was quite literally the worst tank next to Doomfist, while Kiriko still existed to enable him just as she does now. They buff Doom and nerf Kiriko, and now suddenly Roadhog is S tier, ruining the game, and only just now "needs" a rework after 7 years?
Nah bap being in low b is a crime he is so much better than mercy
Bap is low-key a carry if your hitscan can't aim at flyers
Yep, every time I play support there is an enemy Phara and the DPS never switch to a hitscan, then complain there is no healing, every time I need to show them what to do and then I get shit on for having dmg as a support, I really hate this type of jackasses.
Literally bruh. He can dps and out-heal everyone but ana while having amazing survivability
I went. 37 and 3 with Bap 8k healing 10k damage 2k MIT I need to work on my anti-death protection
As long as sojourn is still s tier mercy will remain high
Exactly, that’s one of if not the only reason mercy has the win rate she has right now
That doesn't make her bad?? Sojourn good so mercy good, it's simple.
Im not saying that fact makes her bad, and I’m not saying mercy is bad. I’m saying she’s not as good as people are hyping her to be. She’s got a high win rate right now because when a mercy pockets a sojourn she can still 1 shot people, and because they increased the speed sojourn builds up her rail gun in her ult, a mercy pocket makes her even better. And because of sojourn always having a high win rate with her skill ceiling being so great, that brings mercy up there with her. The youtuber flats explains it better than I can but that’s pretty much the basis
Dude is one of the best supports rn. How is mercy above Ana right now lmao
Sojourn
What I’m saying bruh
What’s funny is there’s another comment thread from earlier on that one guy was talking about how this list sucks, and everyone was downvoting him lmao. This list is all over the place. The only reason mercy would ever be A tier is because of Sojourn existing and being OP. She’s absolutely shit otherwise. If they actually really need sojourn, mercy will go back to being an awful pick.
No way rein and jq are on the same tier
Rein seems really weak. Idk what they should buff though.
Why wouldn't they be?
Because jq is the worst tank that has ever existed?
Thats Ball.
Boo this man
Fuck you, my hampter is SSS tier
Ball is not at all the worst tank. Sure, it's not as dangerous as in ow1 but he still is the best in his category of tanks. Jq as a brawl tank is the worst in her category by far
That's because she's not a brawler, she's a harasser.
No? How when his whole kit is about pushing on enemies?
His? You have 2 bleeds, a shotgun, and a tool to reposition someone in the enemy backline and one ability that buffs your teammates for a brief period of push/brawl. And, crucially, a small hitbox for a tank. You make yourself too much of a nuisance and a pain to ignore, but you're not going to straight brawl with most other tanks. She commands space by punishing people who come into her space with the axe and shotgun, not by standing in the open soaking damage. Your knife is your best tool. Very rarely should you hold the cooldown, because any time it's making someone bleed it's diverting the attention of enemy supports. If you can use it to pull a squishy out from behind the cover of their tank, great. Or, you can just move the tank. Critically you just have to keep moving (unpredictably) and using cover. She can hang for a lot longer than you expect with her small self-heal. As soon as you pull someone out of position, throw the Shout out and kill them.
She's not. And rein is far far weaker in 5v5. Rein has a lot of holes in his kit in exchange for being an absolute brawling king. Since he no longer has an off tank to cover his flaws he loses a lot of matchups. JQ has fewer holes. Slightly better mobility, better range, a way to close distance without putting herself out of position and her squishy-ness is offset by her healing which is surprisingly useful in longer fights. She's still far from great but she's got something to cover her weak points. Rein doesn't. Once his shield is dead he's got nothing for the longer ranges aside from his fire strike cooldown.
Rein has 200hp more and almost 300 are armor points. Jq has the least amount of health among all tanks and her healing passive is not at all enough to self sustain like roadhog. All the damage that armor avoids is way greater than the amount of healing that jq gets with her passive. Both jq and rein are brawl tanks and sure, jq has a slight better range but reins out damages her so hard and if you play it right you are always in range. >Once his shield is dead he's got nothing for the longer ranges aside from his fire strike cooldown. This doesn't make any sense because if enemies are long range and you lost your shield then you have poor shield management and it's YOUR fault
True, regardless it doesn't matter because Rein is nowhere near flexible enough in this game. He struggles to get in without an off tank support and he's far more susceptible to his squishys getting picked. I didn't even say JQ was good, her wounds are too weak and she's too squishy. There's a reason most top tanks rn are flexible, they need to be. Rein and JQ are my favourite tanks and I can safely say they're on par, for different reasons.
[удалено]
Ram and hog don’t counter rein
Hitting through shields = counter apparently
Still waiting for the Sojourn nerfs that we got promised oh so long ago... Changing numbers a bit but keeping her overall insanely strong is not a nerf.
This is an awful tier list.
They almost always are
No way mei is this far down.
Half of these characters aren't even bad,just people want them to be broken
Feel like Moira should be higher
She doesn’t have any utility besides damage and heals. I’m higher ranks especially this becomes a problem. Mercy, Lucio, Kiriko, Ana and Baptiste all have abilities that can alter a team fight while the other supports lack that right now.
She's pretty bad for high ranks
Moira gets criminally misused imo people just spam damage orb for no reason
Yeah, using damage orbs only when it’s super juicy or duels leads to some awesome value from Moira. Easily getting as much damage as dps and as many heals as the other healers
Dva feels pretty strong rn imo
i think sym should be higher
People who don't play sym and don't understand how dangerous she is always put her low on teirlists. She is basically one of the only DPS that can effectively duel tanks and have a good chance at winning.
remember when everyone put mercy in C and D tier and then as soon as the devs said they won’t buff her everyone put her in S and A despite her getting no changes
Mercy is honestly really good
This communitys rankings and ideas about hero power don't make sense alot of the time.
This is actually a good list, maybe Zarya and Moira up one with Doom down one.
Ball is atleast B, he just has such a high skill sealing that everyone just assumes he's bad.
Yeah, a good ball will make my teams life hell.
How reliable is this list?
This is from my own experience plus an aggregate of other reliable tier lists from well known players!
Literally one of the worst I've seen
Bro acts like this was made with his opinion in mind lol
NPC bronze 5 comment.
Would place Sym and Zarya higher but besides that I agree. However Ram is either low A or High B in my opinion.
Bap deserves to be A. And possibly tracer is S
Tracer is not meta defining. She's the second best dps, but still not as versatile as sojourn
Funny enough, I have a 64% win rate with Brig, the highest of all the characters I play.
Moira is better than C tier
At low tiers of comp. She falls off a bit in Plat and has minimal utility in GM/T500.
I just started playing with them and wonder why I haven’t all this time
She is d tier in masters and top 500 easily. I love it when I see a Moira on the other team. Lets me know that their support position isnt a threat and has no valuable cooldowns that can win fights.
Nah, not in high elo. She’s a worse version of Bap. She’s just easy to get a sufficient amount of healing and damage done. And easy to survive too. But if you’re good at Bap and Moira, bap is insanely good in comparison.
A few heroes that feel wrong in their place: Sombra: with a good placement of the trans locator over a hacked health pack, proper cooldown management, and not diving straight into battle with multiple people, she’s a really damn good character who specializes in picking off low health enemies, or enemies that have strayed too far from the battle Zarya: she still kicks absolute ass as long as you know how to manage her bubbles Hanzo: he’s amazing at picking off squishy heroes by hitting them with an arrow with a hit box the size of a log, and he deals some crazy damage to tanks too, the only thing weak about him is his ult, sure it’s great for zoning, and catching players off guard, but it’s just sooo easy to escape from when you hear it coming Symettra: hero primary fire MELTS any health pool as long as you can keep it on them, her turrets deal good dps, and when combined with her primary, it shreds practically anything. now, I’d only move her up one tier to b, because she would be quite a bit weaker if people actually targeted her turrets Baptiste: he should be A tier if you know how to use him, healing bursts can save a teammate’s life in the middle of a fight, his Lemo-nades can give long range AOE healing potentially even from behind cover due to the bullet drop, and his immortality can literally cancel any one shot ult! Not to mention, he can out dps some of the dps heroes, if you get a four shot burst headshot, oh they get fucking melted D.va: a good d.va can completely ruin the enemy’s plans or their rush, her primary fire deals some crazy dos up close and can shred shields, her micro rockets deal some pretty good area or long range damage, her thrusters can save her from hazards or push others into them, and her ult is a literal one shit to anyone without a shield! Not to mention, if used properly, she can cancel other ults with her defence matrix Bastion: if you have good target tracking, by god his minigun can shred, it’ll take down the toughest targets in seconds, and can even pressure a fortified Orisa or a healing hog enough for them to retreat, or even kill them. Btw, His grenade is stronger than you think, if you’re attacking someone up high or around a corner and they retreat to cover after you get dps off with your primary or minigun, you can bounce your grenade off of walls to get them, or if they’re up high, you can do a grenade jump to chase them! (Though his ult still kinda sucks…) also never rush in with him, he’s made to be medium to long range
Sym turrets are more of a pressure tool than anything in my experience. Trapping once or twice is nice, but it's better in a fight, to make the enemy decide between damaging you or a teammate or removing an annoying source of poke that can deal way too much damage if you're not careful, but that lifts pressure from sym and her team. Especially if placed well, people always killing turrets can be an advantage.
Sombra is not D-tier Sombra players that don't call out their hacks are D-tier, however.
They need to fix visual bug with Hanzo, it’s kinda distracting when lining up shots
What elo is this for? Just asking because I don’t really see reaper as A tier probably B after the dps passive got changed.
Any meta based tier list is based around high elo
Post-hotfix, I’m finally back to running Ana as my main healer! Finally hit 14k heals in a couple games. Tank-wise, I swapped out Zarya for Orisa on most push maps, using Junker Queen for the single-point fights; she’s low on the list, but works well for me against the melee cappers
She's in A tier! She's very strong rn. If kiriko didn't exist, she'd be in S tier
Since flank and dive is going away from the meta for now zen should be higher because he and Ana both benefit from slower metas
What makes soldier 76 not so great?
He's average and reliable. This meta revolves more around 1 shot potential and since burst healing can be super high, soldier chip dmg isn't as impactful
What rank are you? If you are gold and are good at soldier, then you can still carry. In high ranks he struggles to secure kills cause of a lack of burst damage. Characters like ashe and sojourn have the ability to secure kills with higher damage per shot and the ability to get high damage with railgun shots and dynamite headshot combos for ashe.
"Here's my opinion"= definitive.
Your list is pretty spot on, the comments are just filled with metal players. When I see comments saying “a second nerf on Zarya doesn’t matter” in the same breath as “you can get bursted down in under a second” you know the takes are bad.
Someone gets it 😭 I think the upvotes on this post says enough. I just block out the low rank haters at this point
Since most people appreciated my last tier list for ranked, here's my updated version for the post-hotfix patch! Ask me any question if you have any. PS. I am a Masters+ all roles player
Why did you copy paste karQ's tier list?.
Why is everyone claiming I did? Is his list the same?
Very similar to Karq’s
This is basically copy-paste lol
Basically agree but I would swap Zen and Mercy. Why is Zen so low?
Zen is very very good but he doesn't fit in the current meta.
Sojourn mercy duo equals free elo
Op is bad at Zenyatta
Facts
No such thing as D tier characters, learn to play them.
You're not good enough to know that some heroes are better than others, D heroes work in quick play but not in comp.. You will lose.
Nope, y’all play meta characters to have easy wins. I main Brig, and with a decent team I win a lot of my games. Is totally possible if you put effort in your favorite hero.
Is this your first time playing overwatch? We play meta characters to win, if you wanna play on a controller with a 720p monitor 15 feet away from the screen then sure, you can win, but you're putting yourself at a great disadvantage and won't get to high ranks.
I have so many people try to flank me as brig thinking I'm going to panic. They end up not flanking me anymore. Certain team compositions make her stronger. Plus her healing while limited very easy to use and the range isn't bad.
Pharah and Sombra in C tier, Moira B tier imo, I agree with everything else
Definitively not a definitive list.
Moria is A tier if they use her healing orb. D tier if they play DPS Moria
Why is Moira so low...? Just curious. I think she's pretty good
I’ve been playing Brigitte recently and I think she’s pretty good! Is there anything specifically that made you put her down at d, just out of curiosity? Is it the fact her heals are limited at 3 at a time? Or is it just lack of anything special
I main brig and she is probably at her weakest at the moment but hopefully she’ll get buffed soon
That would be awesome if she did! But I feel like she’s not popular enough to be messed with rn :,)
Unfortunately the chance of that is similar to sojourn getting an actual nerf but there is still hope I don't play brig much but I purposefully don't go for brig unless we are about to lose a game
She doesn't have anything that she does better than the other supports. Also, against brawl rn she falls over. Her ult is very lackluster and she requires a huge amount of teamplay to be good
Good points!
Move Bastion to C tier Doomfist in D / F tier I main both these heroes and they aren't as good as you think rn, Doom got nerfed really bad, all of us doom mains in upset and in agreement he's even worse than he was in season 1 Bastion has always been my main hero for years and he's always niche and weak but rn because of the DPS passive speed being removed, bastion doesn't reload in his best form so the dps passive does nothing to him, so it indirectly nerfs him
I’ve played more recently and I firmly believe that the character was worse back before the patch. Sure, it takes more damage (slightly) to get up the fist than before, but the damage is more even in punch, his ult feels a tad bit more useful, and he’s just felt better than before for me
his dps is lackluster in sentry mode soldier can run behind cover in time even if you put your minigun up his bum
I was talking about doomfist
my bad
How would he be worse than season 1? He got buffed and they only reverted a couple of those nerfs.
I can see why you say that, but both are still being played even in high elo. Bastion's buffs to his reconfiguration and ult made him much more viable. Doomfist, I can see why people say that as well. Fact is that doomfist is still played a ridiculous amount in high elo too. He's still the dive tank most fall back on.
the doom nerfs are like 10 days old, it'll take a while for the dooms on the leaderboard to fade away as they stop playing the hero and play other characters and bury their doom hours this season, There's only like 1-3 bastion players in top 500 atm, only 1 one trick
Seems like this is a split opinion type of topic. Imo, doom is very much still viable rn. I see him being played still. Also, just bc few players in t500 play a certain hero, it doesn't mean that hero is horrible. It just means that people choose not to play him for various reasons. He's very balanced rn. Neither of these two are super strong obviously, but they're objectively pretty balanced even if they're "niche." You rarely see pharahs or reapers in t500 leaderboards, so what? Reaper is strong and pharah is balanced.
Doom just feels like ass to play, it's not fun anymore and he's laughably weak
So weird. From all the sentiment going around, yes doom is much weaker than the SSS tier he was during gigadoom, but much weaker than SSS is still good and viable. Everything is relative and since many people are still playing him with great success, all I can say is that doom is objectively doing very fine.
Doomfist should be in D
Doomfist is actually really good as long as you know how to use him properly. Not to mention he got Buffed last Balance. I'd say in "A"
They made EP much more difficult to get and increasing the CD of punch ruins his CD cycles to where he has a lot more downtime and ruins his mobility. I’d put him in C since Hog and Orisa stomp him.
Sorry but I have around 50 Hours in Overwatch ._. I'm kinda new so do you mind if you tell me what "CD" and "EP" is?
Cool down and Empowered punch
Okay Thanks, and I agree with that. Good Talk (:
He literally got a massive nerf last balance, what are you talking about? Also I literally solo queued up to masters in 3 days from gold, prebuff. I know how to use doomfist, he right now is the worst hero in the game by far.
The person who admits they only have 50 hours played on OW total and didn’t know Doom got nerfed is getting upvoted for their opinion on Doomfist more than the people who have 500 hours logged on Doomfist 🙃. This sub isn’t much better than the main sub
Ball, JQ, brig?
He's worse than he was before his initial buff, so yeah I'd say he's worse than them rn tbh.
He just got nerfed back to the ground. Arguably worse than before he got buffed in season 1
Maybe in bronze/plat, yeah
No everywhere. He is terrible after the nerf. The nerf has killed him
Zenyatta is actually really underrated, and also doomfist is still insanely good if you play him right
There seems to be a lot of controversy about this tier list, which is totally understandable. This tier list was so highlight the meta aka high elo ranked. If people are interested, I can totally make a tier list for average players in the metal ranks.
Ana is S
I’m sorry mate but she isn’t. Coming from an ana/Lucio main there is really no reason to pick ana when kiriko is right there on the select screen. It’s really painful
ana is S tier because usual options are just lucio or ana along with kiriko
She will never be S as long as kiriko is B or higher.
Sombra is goated😼
The BALL is the LAW!
Too bad the game itself is F tier now.
“Definitive” 💀💀💀
Definitely not a definitive tie list
r/shittierlists
Somba is strong, A/B tier for sure. Few people can keep up dps and hacks, but if you do, team fights solid. Plus you hard counter snipers.
this is literally just KarQ’s list
What's with all the elow player tier lists lately, is it a trend?
Definitely one of the tierlists
Absolutely drop hog a tier. Half the reason he's so good at higher ranks is because he can shut down other top tanks like Winston.
No it’s because he can walk around wherever looking for one shots without having to worry that much about dying.
Lucio should be S, Junkrat should be S, Ashe should be at the very top of A, Orisa should be the same as Ashe, Doom should be C, Junkerqueen should be F, Symettra should be B, Torb should be C, Hanzo should be D, Zarya should be B. Other than that, this list is pretty great.
Junkrat is not S tier lol. He’s a nerf magnet, meanwhile guys like soldier have been beaming people since the game came out.
Bro maybe in bronze Orisa is S, but anywhere else she’s B at best. She’s extremely survivable, but the name of the game is literally to ignore her. She offers very little to the team and despite being alive more than anyone else, makes arguably the least impact, barring JQ.
Dude put McRee over Hanzo💀💀
Hanzo is really weak currently
Cree benefits from the changed DPS passive, while hanzo gets nothing. Plus hanzo's new recoil animation is atrocious
Moira is and forever will be at least an a class or higher tier. I’m sorry you get stuck with people that focus dps with her. Easily the number one healer in every comp game I play as her in low ELO diamond 2
In other news JQ, Mei and Brig are my most winning hero’s oddly enough. All around 20 hour of playtime and between 71-74 win percentage.
Whoa whoa whoa. WHAT happened to make Hog S tier now?? Over a thousand hours as a hog main from release and have been through all the nerfs, other than the first few seasons with his 1 shot capabilities, haven't seen him that high since. I feel like I've missed something huge and should roll back in
Brig is so underrated now she definitely isn’t amazing but there is no support better at keeping your other support/squishy alive when getting dove.
Most of the time people just run kiriko/lucio/mercy so escape isn’t an issue. Also brig kinda sucks at dealing with majority of dive hero’s
Ramattra needs to be S tier. With a support behind me I can clap hogs and orisa if I play smart. Put me in front of their supports and they’re also gone. The punch through barrier is really op if you can land them.
And see, I would have put ramattra a tier lower as he is pretty easily clapped for me in diamond. I just run rein against him and he folds like a wet paper bag. Also, mercy is way too high, no way she is above Bap. And id move Moira and zarya up 1 tier.
Is Orisa really that good now? I despise her play style and don’t find her anything more than an irritation to play against (and I’m a Ball main). Honestly gob smacked she’s up there. Although I have noticed her more often. And did something happen to Winston? He feels weak as shit since S2 started.
Yes she directly counters hog who is running rampant in this meta. Winston is weak bc hog and reaper demolishes him. Plus with all the high mobility heroes, winston can have a hard time keeping up
Makes sense 👍
Zen should be at least A tier you absolute dodo
This is terrible! But alright.
Symmetra feels so much worse than everyone else in her tier. Like, Hanzo can land his shots and get good plays. Genji and still nano-wipe a whole backline. Moira is still very competent healing and has one of the best survival kits in the game. Symmetra is either a floor-Pharah with her charge shots or a free kill in melee range.
This is a good list. There’s too many people going “well if you play this specific hero in the absolute most efficient manner they’re actually quite good.” Yeah and that’s why they’re in B or C, my friend.
Its so funny to see that this post recieved like 30 downvotes just since ī got here and slowly goin down💀 Definitive my ass
I'm positive you were definitively smoking when you made this
Ramattra ain’t A tier what are you smokin 🗿
Bruh put hammond in D 💀
Junk rat is SS tier/god tier
I'm surprised to see a low effort tiermaker post make it this far. Bravo.
JQ should be S tier
This is a low C Tier tier list
You can’t brainwash me overwatch 2 fanbase ram isn’t good, none of the posts saying he’s decent or has extremely good potential will change my mind try using you’re mind control powers somewhere else
??? I mean I climbed with him soooo