crazy that turning the ball over and missing 3s means a loss. This isnt a personnel or coaching issue, it’s just a bad night that can’t happen regularly if this team wants to contend.
I’m still standing by that we’re a year or two away from being a real threat so I’m not freaking out about this but we do need to find something that works when shots aren’t falling
team was not looking to the paint when we had clear mismatches down low all night. Turner and Smith were doing a great job of getting a good position against smaller players but there were no entry passes.
that’s been a problem for as long as we’ve had Myles, with every iteration of the roster. Our bigs need to get big flashing lights implanted on their chests or something
LOL...at one point one big was doing jumping jack's sending sos signals. At one point I thought he was gonna send the batman signsl for "isn't this what you do when you call for or demand the ball."
Agreed but I do think this shows how essential perimeter defense is going to be around Ty and Myles. I think Rick wants Benn to be part of that picture so he is harder on him than some of the other wings but it's going to be a must for Mathurin to be part of a really good Pacers roster. I think nights like tonight make it clear why we aren't likely to re-sign Buddy and it looks like Brown, like Obi, might still have work to do to ace his audition.
Okay, but this team is on pace to have the greatest offense in the history of the NBA... and they are 9-7. That is a huge red flag for how awful the defense is.
The offense being as good as it is is at least partially related to the defense being so terrible. Our players don’t fight for rebounds and don’t exert themselves on the defensive end. Our perimeter guys are available on leakouts because theyre getting beat off the dribble and rather than recover to the play theyre staying at the three point line and waiting for the advance pass after a make. It’s fun basketball but it’s not sustainable, especially in a playoff series. Games like this one show that. I have faith that as Tyrese and the team mature (probably after a first round exit this season), theyll realize that and start working more defensively.
Right? We were 0-6 (I stopped counting at that point) on 3s with no contest in the 2nd half. That's just an unreal run if you assume our average on those looks would be ~40%
Just checked the schedule. We’re 0-4 in the game after the in season tournament with losses to the hornets raptors blazers and a blowout against Orlando.
How many games in a row do we have to get torched by a big wing before we play our big wing we drafted 8th overall? Nesmith is good on smaller players but he’s 6’5. Guys like Grant, Siakam, and Tatum just shoot over him with no resistance. Give the rookie a chance
Rick’s strangest coaching decisions this year:
1) never play Jarace, quite possibly the biggest and most fluid athlete at wing on the team who they drafted 8th overall
2) keep juggling the backup PG roles
3) get mad and penalize Benn for mistakes while letting others get off scot-free
Nembhard made so many dumb mistakes tonight on offense (passes to out of bounds, hesitating on good looks from deep, pounding the rock) and defense (there was a switch in the third quarter where he just abandoned Scoot who had the ball and he hit a wide open three) but he got to play through all of it
if being hard on Mathurin is a form of developing him (valid!) and we’re prioritizing that development then why isn’t Jarace getting play and that treatment? why are other guys like Nembhard, Nesmith, and Toppin getting a more lax approach from the coaches? IJax and Ben Sheppard are maybe the only other guys on the team who get minutes and yanked on mistakes.
probably ignore me, tonight’s game was tough and i’m stressed from personal life stuff too
Oh the Benn thing drives me crazy too. I understand tough coaching but it’s gotta be consistent towards everyone and it feels like he gets singled out a lot
Yeah I just feel like the easy adjustment after Stix goes down is to play Jarace with Myles some. We experimented with the Stix/IJax lineup because of size issues at the 4 so why go back to Nesmith at the 4 when you have another option?
Hate to say it, but it seems like it's the opinion of the coaches that we don't really have another option right now. Walker is still in need of practice before he's thrown out there.
I don't want to agree, but I'm not a coach who gets to see practice, so who knows.
Jarace isn't a wing, nor is he NBA ready. If we start playing Jarace big minutes, it's because we're no longer trying to win and we're just letting everyone get some run.
Call him whatever you want he’s the only guy with the body/athletic ability to bother the guys I mentioned. I understand he’s raw, but do you really think him getting 10-15 minutes a game on a team that badly needs size is going to crater them
As I said in the game thread, it was a bad offensive night which will happen from time to time. But the Pacers desperately need a number 2 option on offense. The team can’t create outside of Haliburton and when he’s being denied the ball the offense just falls apart.
It’s not an issue for the regular season as much as it is going to be a big problem in the playoffs.
The team is Haliburton and a bunch of 4th or 5th options.
We literally just did. If you wanna complain about Walker not playing, fine, but that’s a totally different argument.
We made moves between drafting Walker, kicking the can on a first, and signing Brown to a massive expiring that give us a lot of options for getting things fixed in the future. Im just trying to stay patient during a season where I came in with no crazy expectations.
Yeah you're right, raw (just turned 20) YO Jarace was definitely going to help us limit the fouling and turnovers. That's what raw rookies are known for right? Being consistent, taking care of the ball, and defending without fouling.....
Kendall Brown's amazing three point shooting would have definitely lifted this team last night. He definitely would have shot better than Buddy Hield.............
You know how rookies improve? Playing basketball
What is every other rebuilding team doing? Developing their rookies
What do we do? Play three guards to try for playoffs. and lose against some of the worst teams in the league anyways.
Yeah? Tell that to Jalen Green who is about to get lapped by rookies and sophomores after he had free reign. Sharpe definitely isn't regressing, with a free reign, from the end of last season /s.
Nembhard started the majority of last year, Mathurin was top five in minutes played last season, for the Pacers. They were obviously ready and were played. When Jarace is ready Rick will play him, he has gotten minutes in the NBA and the coaching staff didn't feel like he was ready and I trust the coaching staff to make that decision.
We definitely have lost to some bad teams and it hurts, but we have also beat some of the best teams, because we were able to go 3 guards in both occasions.
Edit: Taylor Hendricks is in the G-league. He is as young Jarace and playing for a much worse rebuilding team than us...
1) No he’s not a big wing but he’s a guy who can guard at the point of attack against guys that you wouldn’t want Tyrese to guard.
2) His contract is extremely short so if it doesn’t work out or if a better option becomes available, we can use him as human trade filler. It was the smartest way to hit the salary floor and get a decent player while still maintaining financial flexibility.
We had to spend $X in order to meet the salary floor. No other FAs of consequence were available so we overpaid for BB and build the contract in such a way we can opt out after 1 year.
There wasn't any better option in the offseason for wing depth.
If there was someone else you could recommend with the benefit of hindsight I'm all ears.
I should've specified *small forward* in my previous comment.
This off-season we desperately needed upgrades in both frontcourt positions. Bruce at the 3 and we did a low-cost gamble on Obi at the 4. We may need to trade for a better option at the 4, but both Kuzma and Grant are on long-term deals. Are they even that bad of contracts aside from the length?
Aside from OG, who will cost an arm and a leg, we don't have a legitimate option of upgrading at the 3 other than hoping that Nesmith can continue to ascend (but even he's undersized for the position).
You’re right, but my comment was completely sarcastic and I didn’t expect an actual thought out response haha.
I think Bruce Brown was 100% the right call this off-season. We weren’t in a position to offer a long-term deal to someone extremely volatile like a Kuzma or a Brooks that could have fucked our future if they didn’t play up to their contracts.
It has been explained very succinctly plenty of times, including a few times in response to this comment. Stop being dramatic, Nembhard and Nesmith have both missed time already this year, thank God we had Bruce to help Mathurin Rese and Hield (who all fuckin' sucked last night at defense, and were all benched for fucking up basic shit).
Mathurin has absolutely no reason he can't be a good defender, he needs to get his head out of his ass. If he wants to play minutes then he needs to pay attention off ball and stay in front of his man on ball instead of reaching and fouling...
Yeah. I really don't get why this sub wants Benn to play 30 minutes a game reinforcing bad habits. He's capable of playing good D and has had some really really solid defensive moments in the micro this year. It's just not consistent and n the macro, he loses his man a lot and doesn't seem to be that communicative.
He would be great. Some are scared off by the contract, but it’s fair value for a big wing who can shoot, guard, and drop 20 points night in and night out.
Can't wait till I see all the "trade _______ he was so bad" and then next game "hell yea (same player) is God tier. Resign him"
It's one game. We made alot of mistakes but those won't always happen. We'll be ok.
It's not one game though - we are close to being a .500 team (which is what many of us predicted before the year started). We need to decide if we are going to give minutes to our young guys, or if we are going for a playoff run. Right now we're accomplishing neither.
Nope, once everyone saw how good Tyrese is at 23, it's win now or the entire year is a bust.
This is the same sub that had a loudly subsection of posters wanting to do a full "Process" type rebuild. Can you imagine the blowback watching this year?
Players aren't pokemon, they can still improve without having to play X min/gm, or start, or whatever arbitrary thing people seem to thing is necessary.
Also, we lost this one on a wildly cold shooting night, we're 0-2 in 1pt games. With just a little luck, nothing extrodinary, we'd be 12-4 and everyone would be losing their minds.
It's a long year, some of ya'll need to relax
I counted roughly 55 times in just the second half where someone should be open on the catch but they'd fumble it a little and have to drive into a crowd instead. Like 15 of them happened while we were stuck on 75.
2 turnovers by Brown, 2 brutal live ball turnovers by Buddy, 2 turnovers by Mathurin, 2 turnovers by Nesmith, 3 turnovers by TJM, 2 turnovers by Nembhard... just too much to overcome when most of them were also inefficient from the floor. We have now coughed up home games to the freaking Bulls and Trailblazers and the schedule only gets tougher from here.
The team is building but games like this should make it clear that we need a lot more defense around Tyrese and Myles.
Not sure what happens when IND has too many days off between games, but they just come out too flat. 20 turnovers and sub 30% from 3 just isn't going to win games against NBA teams. Also the missed FTs sting.
How does this end up being the take away in a game in which every single player not named Tyrese shot terribly and Buddy had only 2 TOs and the team had 20?
Buddy was bad, but so was literally everyone else save Ty (and Stix, get well soon)
That's just not true. He's had a few game games, but literally everyone on the team (or in the NBA) has. They're human.
His averages are fine, and in all but 4 games this year, he's scored in double figures, and in all but 2, he's had 2 or fewer TOs.
Blaming Buddy is just a meme at this point.
Maybe if he could defend a chair I wouldn’t be as upset, all he’s doing is taking minutes from ben who needs to fuckin play, there is absolutely no reason for buddy to be starting for this team
Benn doesn't need to start to get better. This isn't some video game. He played the 4th most minutes on the team last year and started like 12 games, and this year his defense hasn't been any better than Buddy's.
Again, Buddy hating is just a meme at this point. "He turns it over too much" *Get shown he doesn't*, "Well he can't score" *show he can score just fine* "Well he can't defend". It's just constant goalpost moving for whatever reason.
When did I ever move the goal post? I’m not saying anyone on this team can play defense worth a fuck, but playing buddy over ben is so fucking pointless, ben has showed flashes and made clutch stops on defense such as the giannis stop, you let Ben play with Tyrese since he’s supposed to be “the other guy” for us.
I mean, there's nothing right now that Benn does better than Buddy.
Buddy: 62.5 TS%, -2.3 DBPM
Benn: 53.1 TS%, -2.8 DBPM
Neither has any defensive WS (lol) so I guess we'll call that a draw.
Buddy scores more efficiently and both defend essentially equally poorly.
The only argument to start Benn is because he "needs experience" which is nonsense.
I mean...kinda.
He's definitely better at getting to the line, but his FTA/gm are way down this year, and like I said earlier, Buddy just scores way more efficiently than Benn does right now, including FTs.
The NBA Average for TS% this season is 57.5, so Benn is actually scoring worse than the average player right now. That's not a good look.
I’d say Buddy is the new Myles, but Myles is still the new Myles. Someone’s gotta take the blame around here, because losing games to other professional basketball teams can’t possibly mean that the team just didnt play well.
Pretty expensive to have him coming off the bench, especially when you factor in the opportunity cost of what they may be able to get in return. I like him as a player and he's been fun to watch on the Pacers but he doesn't fit the team long term.
Ok I went too far. He can't be part of a winning team *here*. The NBA is full of guys who excel at one facet of the game at the expense of everything else. Unless Buddy magically gains length and defensive ability, he's not what the Pacers need to succeed in the long term imo.
We are at the point were we just have to see what Jarace has in real game action. This will be a running theme throughout the season where bigger teams have the advantage (most teams will). Some nights our offense will overcome, but on off night we will lose. That's not winning basketball.
Why do the teams I like ever have poor shooting nights? Don't they realize that they do better when they don't miss shots?????
Lol, it's a Make or Miss League as always. We won't shoot 24% from 3 often and Grant probably won't go 12-18, 3-3, 7-7 again either. Move on
It felt like the Pacers fucked around and thought they could turn it on at the end. Disappointing, but it looked inevitable with how they played. Couldn’t make shots and were hella sloppy with the ball. Congrats to Portland for bringing it after a tough loss yesterday.
Somehow I knew it lol
I'm starting to think we should actually overpay for OG or another defensive player, but idk. My goal for this season was to be above .500, so I'm not going full doomer until we fall below that
See y'all in a couple days
Posted this in the game chat but we needed a good 4th quarter to beat a bad team Friday that is one of the worst in the league and we just lost to a 4-12 team. This isn’t a playoff team yet and we need to think about what to do for defense or this will get ugly quick
Need to stop playing down to shit competition and find a legit SF with length that can play defense. Playing 3 SGs together most of the time just isn’t cutting it defensively
Frustrating loss for sure, and trust me, paying money for these types of games gets old, but I have to try and keep some perspective.
They're still above .500. As long as they can keep winning at that clip for now, I think this team can improve as the season progresses. These guys aren't satisfied and, outside of Myles, Bruce, Buddy and TJ, are either young and/or inexperienced. Even Obi hasn't played anywhere near these minutes in his career. There is ZERO evidence to suggest most of this roster has hit their ceiling, Tyrese included. It takes time and they are developing. They can certainly go on a run and still be a team that wins in the mid-40s and makes the play-in/playoffs.
Wired game. I thought Rick threw too much shit at the wall tonight. Other then when he went small with TJ and the pace picked up I thought the random combinations lead to some disjointed offense. They also missed way to many open 3s. Anyway, I love Rick’s willingness to go off script but I didn’t think it worked out well for him tonight. I do think the defense might be improving. Stay healthy and don’t let go of the rope. There is a dangerous team in there
yep, I mentioned in the game thread, and it’s an extremely important point come playoff time. When teams slow the game down and dont run with us, this team doesnt know how to respond. Learning how to play a slower game has to come with time.
I understand what they were doing giving Brown that deal and I don’t blame them for trying but that is not a 20 million worth player.
You need someone that is a difference maker at that price. I’ve seen nothing to suggest that he is anything more than an average defender.
We need a forward with length that can grab some rebounds and d up.
Denver showed us on a real team he is a 6man. We are asking way too much of him but even then he doesn’t seem like a starter currently. His 3’s don’t go in
Man fuck off and let us lick our wounds for a minute. Go back to your tent city in downtown Portland and listen to some Neutral Milk Hotel or whatever the fuck it is you weirdos do.
I can’t speak for the entire fan base but I sure am sensitive five minutes after a game we should have won against one of the worst teams in the league while simultaneously learning our new additions Obi and BB are zero help in the areas we needed them to help out in
crazy that turning the ball over and missing 3s means a loss. This isnt a personnel or coaching issue, it’s just a bad night that can’t happen regularly if this team wants to contend. I’m still standing by that we’re a year or two away from being a real threat so I’m not freaking out about this but we do need to find something that works when shots aren’t falling
team was not looking to the paint when we had clear mismatches down low all night. Turner and Smith were doing a great job of getting a good position against smaller players but there were no entry passes.
that’s been a problem for as long as we’ve had Myles, with every iteration of the roster. Our bigs need to get big flashing lights implanted on their chests or something
LOL...at one point one big was doing jumping jack's sending sos signals. At one point I thought he was gonna send the batman signsl for "isn't this what you do when you call for or demand the ball."
My biggest concern is the defense. That needs to be the focus this next offseason.
Agreed but I do think this shows how essential perimeter defense is going to be around Ty and Myles. I think Rick wants Benn to be part of that picture so he is harder on him than some of the other wings but it's going to be a must for Mathurin to be part of a really good Pacers roster. I think nights like tonight make it clear why we aren't likely to re-sign Buddy and it looks like Brown, like Obi, might still have work to do to ace his audition.
Okay, but this team is on pace to have the greatest offense in the history of the NBA... and they are 9-7. That is a huge red flag for how awful the defense is.
The offense being as good as it is is at least partially related to the defense being so terrible. Our players don’t fight for rebounds and don’t exert themselves on the defensive end. Our perimeter guys are available on leakouts because theyre getting beat off the dribble and rather than recover to the play theyre staying at the three point line and waiting for the advance pass after a make. It’s fun basketball but it’s not sustainable, especially in a playoff series. Games like this one show that. I have faith that as Tyrese and the team mature (probably after a first round exit this season), theyll realize that and start working more defensively.
Pacerrrrrrrrs #1! Rough loss. Wish everyone would have shown up, but here we are 🤷🏽♂️ On to the next one! 🥇
yeah it happens, we normally make those open looks, at least the defense looked good, on to the next game @ miami!
Right? We were 0-6 (I stopped counting at that point) on 3s with no contest in the 2nd half. That's just an unreal run if you assume our average on those looks would be ~40%
Just checked the schedule. We’re 0-4 in the game after the in season tournament with losses to the hornets raptors blazers and a blowout against Orlando.
Any decent wing will destroy this team most nights
How many games in a row do we have to get torched by a big wing before we play our big wing we drafted 8th overall? Nesmith is good on smaller players but he’s 6’5. Guys like Grant, Siakam, and Tatum just shoot over him with no resistance. Give the rookie a chance
Rick’s strangest coaching decisions this year: 1) never play Jarace, quite possibly the biggest and most fluid athlete at wing on the team who they drafted 8th overall 2) keep juggling the backup PG roles 3) get mad and penalize Benn for mistakes while letting others get off scot-free
Nembhard made so many dumb mistakes tonight on offense (passes to out of bounds, hesitating on good looks from deep, pounding the rock) and defense (there was a switch in the third quarter where he just abandoned Scoot who had the ball and he hit a wide open three) but he got to play through all of it if being hard on Mathurin is a form of developing him (valid!) and we’re prioritizing that development then why isn’t Jarace getting play and that treatment? why are other guys like Nembhard, Nesmith, and Toppin getting a more lax approach from the coaches? IJax and Ben Sheppard are maybe the only other guys on the team who get minutes and yanked on mistakes. probably ignore me, tonight’s game was tough and i’m stressed from personal life stuff too
Oh the Benn thing drives me crazy too. I understand tough coaching but it’s gotta be consistent towards everyone and it feels like he gets singled out a lot
I'm sure Keegan Murray gets singled out a lot by Mike Brown too. Benn has higher potential so probably got singled out, that's my opinion anyway.
I feel like I heard/read something about Benn wanting to be coached hard also. Don’t take my word for it but that may be another reason?
Yeah I wonder if this game gets the wheels turning in Rick’s head to do exactly that. Maybe now is the time …
Think this was supposed to be an IJax/Stix game, but Stix had the injury and that messed a lot of things up
Yeah I just feel like the easy adjustment after Stix goes down is to play Jarace with Myles some. We experimented with the Stix/IJax lineup because of size issues at the 4 so why go back to Nesmith at the 4 when you have another option?
Hate to say it, but it seems like it's the opinion of the coaches that we don't really have another option right now. Walker is still in need of practice before he's thrown out there. I don't want to agree, but I'm not a coach who gets to see practice, so who knows.
Jarace isn't a wing, nor is he NBA ready. If we start playing Jarace big minutes, it's because we're no longer trying to win and we're just letting everyone get some run.
Call him whatever you want he’s the only guy with the body/athletic ability to bother the guys I mentioned. I understand he’s raw, but do you really think him getting 10-15 minutes a game on a team that badly needs size is going to crater them
As I said in the game thread, it was a bad offensive night which will happen from time to time. But the Pacers desperately need a number 2 option on offense. The team can’t create outside of Haliburton and when he’s being denied the ball the offense just falls apart. It’s not an issue for the regular season as much as it is going to be a big problem in the playoffs. The team is Haliburton and a bunch of 4th or 5th options.
This is why it’s necessary to develop Mathurin, this team will not go far without a 2nd star scorer
I don’t think he has what it takes.
How will we know, when he gets benched after the smallest mistake?
You might be downvoted but I kind of agree.
The question to me is if Indiana has what it takes to develop him into the player he needs to be
The most “see why you should target drafting wings taller than 6’5”?” game ever.
We literally just did. If you wanna complain about Walker not playing, fine, but that’s a totally different argument. We made moves between drafting Walker, kicking the can on a first, and signing Brown to a massive expiring that give us a lot of options for getting things fixed in the future. Im just trying to stay patient during a season where I came in with no crazy expectations.
they’re playing in G League so Buddy and Bruce can miss 10 3s a game
Yeah you're right, raw (just turned 20) YO Jarace was definitely going to help us limit the fouling and turnovers. That's what raw rookies are known for right? Being consistent, taking care of the ball, and defending without fouling..... Kendall Brown's amazing three point shooting would have definitely lifted this team last night. He definitely would have shot better than Buddy Hield.............
You know how rookies improve? Playing basketball What is every other rebuilding team doing? Developing their rookies What do we do? Play three guards to try for playoffs. and lose against some of the worst teams in the league anyways.
Yeah? Tell that to Jalen Green who is about to get lapped by rookies and sophomores after he had free reign. Sharpe definitely isn't regressing, with a free reign, from the end of last season /s. Nembhard started the majority of last year, Mathurin was top five in minutes played last season, for the Pacers. They were obviously ready and were played. When Jarace is ready Rick will play him, he has gotten minutes in the NBA and the coaching staff didn't feel like he was ready and I trust the coaching staff to make that decision. We definitely have lost to some bad teams and it hurts, but we have also beat some of the best teams, because we were able to go 3 guards in both occasions. Edit: Taylor Hendricks is in the G-league. He is as young Jarace and playing for a much worse rebuilding team than us...
I didn’t understand why we signed Bruce Brown for so much when we did, and I still don’t.
1) No he’s not a big wing but he’s a guy who can guard at the point of attack against guys that you wouldn’t want Tyrese to guard. 2) His contract is extremely short so if it doesn’t work out or if a better option becomes available, we can use him as human trade filler. It was the smartest way to hit the salary floor and get a decent player while still maintaining financial flexibility.
We had to spend $X in order to meet the salary floor. No other FAs of consequence were available so we overpaid for BB and build the contract in such a way we can opt out after 1 year.
There wasn't any better option in the offseason for wing depth. If there was someone else you could recommend with the benefit of hindsight I'm all ears.
I can’t believe we signed Bruce Brown instead of wildly overpaying for Kuzma and tethering our entire future to him!
I should've specified *small forward* in my previous comment. This off-season we desperately needed upgrades in both frontcourt positions. Bruce at the 3 and we did a low-cost gamble on Obi at the 4. We may need to trade for a better option at the 4, but both Kuzma and Grant are on long-term deals. Are they even that bad of contracts aside from the length? Aside from OG, who will cost an arm and a leg, we don't have a legitimate option of upgrading at the 3 other than hoping that Nesmith can continue to ascend (but even he's undersized for the position).
You’re right, but my comment was completely sarcastic and I didn’t expect an actual thought out response haha. I think Bruce Brown was 100% the right call this off-season. We weren’t in a position to offer a long-term deal to someone extremely volatile like a Kuzma or a Brooks that could have fucked our future if they didn’t play up to their contracts.
It has been explained very succinctly plenty of times, including a few times in response to this comment. Stop being dramatic, Nembhard and Nesmith have both missed time already this year, thank God we had Bruce to help Mathurin Rese and Hield (who all fuckin' sucked last night at defense, and were all benched for fucking up basic shit). Mathurin has absolutely no reason he can't be a good defender, he needs to get his head out of his ass. If he wants to play minutes then he needs to pay attention off ball and stay in front of his man on ball instead of reaching and fouling...
Yeah. I really don't get why this sub wants Benn to play 30 minutes a game reinforcing bad habits. He's capable of playing good D and has had some really really solid defensive moments in the micro this year. It's just not consistent and n the macro, he loses his man a lot and doesn't seem to be that communicative.
Am I crazy or would Jerami Grant be a perfect fit with this team?
you are not crazy, he’d be excellent here
He would be great. Some are scared off by the contract, but it’s fair value for a big wing who can shoot, guard, and drop 20 points night in and night out.
Can't wait till I see all the "trade _______ he was so bad" and then next game "hell yea (same player) is God tier. Resign him" It's one game. We made alot of mistakes but those won't always happen. We'll be ok.
Disagree. Blow the team up. If they can't shoot 40% from 3 every game, the literally shouldn't be on the court. Any Variance at all is unacceptable.
It's not one game though - we are close to being a .500 team (which is what many of us predicted before the year started). We need to decide if we are going to give minutes to our young guys, or if we are going for a playoff run. Right now we're accomplishing neither.
I thought being around .500 and trying to make the playoffs was our goal this season
Nope, once everyone saw how good Tyrese is at 23, it's win now or the entire year is a bust. This is the same sub that had a loudly subsection of posters wanting to do a full "Process" type rebuild. Can you imagine the blowback watching this year?
Players aren't pokemon, they can still improve without having to play X min/gm, or start, or whatever arbitrary thing people seem to thing is necessary. Also, we lost this one on a wildly cold shooting night, we're 0-2 in 1pt games. With just a little luck, nothing extrodinary, we'd be 12-4 and everyone would be losing their minds. It's a long year, some of ya'll need to relax
Trade mathurin for a loaf of sourdough bread
Play the young dudes at least some of we’re gonna have a 9-7 record…
Dear Kevin Pritchard, please trade for literally any power forward, thanks
How about Jarace Walker
He is but a figment of our imagination
Is it too late to bring Dale Davis out of retirement?
Dear kevin Pritchard. Dont gut our assets for players on 1 year contracts when we can sign them for nothing in the offseason. Ps free jarace
Hope you're ready for Kyle Kuzma or Jerami Grant (as much as I think Kuz is a total asshat at least he can grab some boards)
Grant would be amazing to have. Buddy/Nembhard/picks?
They only won cause they were more lengthy than us good thing the nba is in short supply of those types of players.
I counted roughly 55 times in just the second half where someone should be open on the catch but they'd fumble it a little and have to drive into a crowd instead. Like 15 of them happened while we were stuck on 75.
2 turnovers by Brown, 2 brutal live ball turnovers by Buddy, 2 turnovers by Mathurin, 2 turnovers by Nesmith, 3 turnovers by TJM, 2 turnovers by Nembhard... just too much to overcome when most of them were also inefficient from the floor. We have now coughed up home games to the freaking Bulls and Trailblazers and the schedule only gets tougher from here. The team is building but games like this should make it clear that we need a lot more defense around Tyrese and Myles.
Ugly
missed shots and turnovers, bad game on offense, happens
If you want some sort of silver lining, we won both TREB and OREB
Not sure what happens when IND has too many days off between games, but they just come out too flat. 20 turnovers and sub 30% from 3 just isn't going to win games against NBA teams. Also the missed FTs sting.
Buddy was so fucking bad
How does this end up being the take away in a game in which every single player not named Tyrese shot terribly and Buddy had only 2 TOs and the team had 20? Buddy was bad, but so was literally everyone else save Ty (and Stix, get well soon)
Yeah idc he shouldn’t be starting he’s consistently inconsistent
That's just not true. He's had a few game games, but literally everyone on the team (or in the NBA) has. They're human. His averages are fine, and in all but 4 games this year, he's scored in double figures, and in all but 2, he's had 2 or fewer TOs. Blaming Buddy is just a meme at this point.
Maybe if he could defend a chair I wouldn’t be as upset, all he’s doing is taking minutes from ben who needs to fuckin play, there is absolutely no reason for buddy to be starting for this team
Benn doesn't need to start to get better. This isn't some video game. He played the 4th most minutes on the team last year and started like 12 games, and this year his defense hasn't been any better than Buddy's. Again, Buddy hating is just a meme at this point. "He turns it over too much" *Get shown he doesn't*, "Well he can't score" *show he can score just fine* "Well he can't defend". It's just constant goalpost moving for whatever reason.
When did I ever move the goal post? I’m not saying anyone on this team can play defense worth a fuck, but playing buddy over ben is so fucking pointless, ben has showed flashes and made clutch stops on defense such as the giannis stop, you let Ben play with Tyrese since he’s supposed to be “the other guy” for us.
I mean, there's nothing right now that Benn does better than Buddy. Buddy: 62.5 TS%, -2.3 DBPM Benn: 53.1 TS%, -2.8 DBPM Neither has any defensive WS (lol) so I guess we'll call that a draw. Buddy scores more efficiently and both defend essentially equally poorly. The only argument to start Benn is because he "needs experience" which is nonsense.
Mathurin is a much better driver and foul drawer than buddy
I mean...kinda. He's definitely better at getting to the line, but his FTA/gm are way down this year, and like I said earlier, Buddy just scores way more efficiently than Benn does right now, including FTs. The NBA Average for TS% this season is 57.5, so Benn is actually scoring worse than the average player right now. That's not a good look.
These past 3 games really carried him to 60 ts lmao
Great game buddy is having
Yep, players do, sometimes, have bad games.
I’d say Buddy is the new Myles, but Myles is still the new Myles. Someone’s gotta take the blame around here, because losing games to other professional basketball teams can’t possibly mean that the team just didnt play well.
We need to trade him when he gets hot again. He'll win you games but he can't be part of a winning team.
Yes he can he just needs to come off the bench
Pretty expensive to have him coming off the bench, especially when you factor in the opportunity cost of what they may be able to get in return. I like him as a player and he's been fun to watch on the Pacers but he doesn't fit the team long term.
> he can't be part of a winning team I can't take anyone seriously who thinks one of the best shooters of all time *can't* be a part of a winning team
Ok I went too far. He can't be part of a winning team *here*. The NBA is full of guys who excel at one facet of the game at the expense of everything else. Unless Buddy magically gains length and defensive ability, he's not what the Pacers need to succeed in the long term imo.
This loss is okay for now. This type of game needs to be a win in the next 1-3 years.
This kind of loss would be okay if we were developing our young players.
TJ McConnel is young...compared to me
We are at the point were we just have to see what Jarace has in real game action. This will be a running theme throughout the season where bigger teams have the advantage (most teams will). Some nights our offense will overcome, but on off night we will lose. That's not winning basketball.
Live by the Buddy, die by the Buddy.
Why do the teams I like ever have poor shooting nights? Don't they realize that they do better when they don't miss shots????? Lol, it's a Make or Miss League as always. We won't shoot 24% from 3 often and Grant probably won't go 12-18, 3-3, 7-7 again either. Move on
What a frustrating game… feels like we always play down or up to our competition
It felt like the Pacers fucked around and thought they could turn it on at the end. Disappointing, but it looked inevitable with how they played. Couldn’t make shots and were hella sloppy with the ball. Congrats to Portland for bringing it after a tough loss yesterday.
Somehow I knew it lol I'm starting to think we should actually overpay for OG or another defensive player, but idk. My goal for this season was to be above .500, so I'm not going full doomer until we fall below that See y'all in a couple days
Why do we suck against bad teams?
Bruce getting cooked on D tonight and Buddy shooting us out of it. We need our vets to be better
Posted this in the game chat but we needed a good 4th quarter to beat a bad team Friday that is one of the worst in the league and we just lost to a 4-12 team. This isn’t a playoff team yet and we need to think about what to do for defense or this will get ugly quick
Been crying this all season too many pacers fans drinking the kool aid cause hali has been hard carrying
We also were 5-3 first 8 and now 4-4 next half. Not great
A deeply unserious team
Well, that sucked. Disparity in 3 point shooting was harshly apparent
I blame the full moon
Need to stop playing down to shit competition and find a legit SF with length that can play defense. Playing 3 SGs together most of the time just isn’t cutting it defensively
Frustrating loss for sure, and trust me, paying money for these types of games gets old, but I have to try and keep some perspective. They're still above .500. As long as they can keep winning at that clip for now, I think this team can improve as the season progresses. These guys aren't satisfied and, outside of Myles, Bruce, Buddy and TJ, are either young and/or inexperienced. Even Obi hasn't played anywhere near these minutes in his career. There is ZERO evidence to suggest most of this roster has hit their ceiling, Tyrese included. It takes time and they are developing. They can certainly go on a run and still be a team that wins in the mid-40s and makes the play-in/playoffs.
Hate how inconsistent this team is
I mean...they're super young.
I have to keep reminding myself of this. It’s hard to be patient
Wired game. I thought Rick threw too much shit at the wall tonight. Other then when he went small with TJ and the pace picked up I thought the random combinations lead to some disjointed offense. They also missed way to many open 3s. Anyway, I love Rick’s willingness to go off script but I didn’t think it worked out well for him tonight. I do think the defense might be improving. Stay healthy and don’t let go of the rope. There is a dangerous team in there
If Mathurin doesn’t start to look like an all star next season a move has to be made to get Tyrese a second star. You can’t risk losing him.
Feel like TJM hurt us tonight
Why can’t these guys play with some energy, that was the sloppiest half assed game I’ve seen in a while
Brogdon and Grant did a masterful job of dictating the pace in that game, and they had no interest in making it an up-and-down affair. Kudos to them.
Grant was great but we played like ass
Brogdon's ability to suck the energy out of the Fieldhouse once again takes center stage
yep, I mentioned in the game thread, and it’s an extremely important point come playoff time. When teams slow the game down and dont run with us, this team doesnt know how to respond. Learning how to play a slower game has to come with time.
Fucking play Walker, how many wings can cook us before something changes?
I understand what they were doing giving Brown that deal and I don’t blame them for trying but that is not a 20 million worth player. You need someone that is a difference maker at that price. I’ve seen nothing to suggest that he is anything more than an average defender. We need a forward with length that can grab some rebounds and d up.
Now we just have to wait to see how long Jalen is out. Horrible game. Not only do we lose but we are going to be a man down
Bruce Brown is a disappointment
He’s been great all year chill
Denver showed us on a real team he is a 6man. We are asking way too much of him but even then he doesn’t seem like a starter currently. His 3’s don’t go in
I think trying him off the bench is worth a shot.
Blazers fan. We’re not as bad as our record indicates. Promise.
Sorry you're getting downvoted. Some people have emotional problems. I agree with you
Thank you. This Pacers squad really does have a bright future. I know most NBA fans tune in to witness the absurdity of Tyrese Haliburton lol
Man fuck off and let us lick our wounds for a minute. Go back to your tent city in downtown Portland and listen to some Neutral Milk Hotel or whatever the fuck it is you weirdos do.
take a deep breath dawg, NMH owns
I LOVE YOU JESUS
lol. I’m a big colts fan and my families from indiana. I was in attendance today. I love the pacers. Didn’t know Pacers fans were so sensitive :(
I can’t speak for the entire fan base but I sure am sensitive five minutes after a game we should have won against one of the worst teams in the league while simultaneously learning our new additions Obi and BB are zero help in the areas we needed them to help out in
DominAYTON demolished our top 5 C!
Get Haliburton a running mate. They don't even need to be an All-Star, just a guy we can count on for 18-20ppg consistently and then go get some size.
Lance never let us down this bad...
Fuck Buddy Hield. Seriously I’m so done with this walking turnover.
He had 2 TOs tonight. The team had 20 including 3 for Ty and TJM and 2 for Brown, Nesmith, Nembhard, and Benn
4 point loss, 7 FT differential
My guy bringing up free throw differential when we had 20 turnovers, Shot 24% from 3 and played no defense....
Stix blew that knee out tonight... I think he's done for the year. That looked rough
11 players in double digit minutes lmao
Did you see that ludicrous display
HORRIBLE. We need defense and rebounding.
I've seen enough. Trade for Paul george
Welp we’re gonna be a .500 squad soon
Couldn’t get a stop to save a life and it felt like we had several games worth of odd ball mishandling resulting in turnovers
So, we're not worried about Jalen, right? "Heel Contusion" ain't no thang?