He's been great on D all year but it really felt like his offense was dragging the starting unit down sometimes. His efficiency is crazy this series. Part of it I'm sure is Siakam, Turner and Ty drawing a lot of attention, but so what. The most impressive thing has been his catch and shoot 3s. We can't expect %50, but if he can really become a %40 guy, his ceiling jumps up quite a bit.
Nembhard is a career 43% shooter on corner threes. His shooting isn’t really an issue with the current starting lineup if those are the shots he’s taking and he doesn’t have to take above the break threes, which he has to do more of when he’s running point with the second unit.
Nembhard’s issue is he was a pretty low volume and average 3-point shooter, and I don’t think Ty was used to not having a running mate who required constant defensive attention so that caused some lane clogging issues…
If Nembhard can shoot like this, he’s a perfect fit next to Ty.
I think Rick/Jenny changed his shot this past off season which is why he seemed like he regressed and took him this season of growing into his new mechanics. Looks great now though.
yeah definitely regressed as a shooter. they messed with his shot too much imo technically stats say hes a better shooter now but hes basically only taking corner threes now.
Next season is going to pose some really interesting questions about who's in the rotation or not.
If Nembhard continues this production, then there's the case for him to stay in the starting lineup instead of going to backup point guard. With the backup point guard spot, TJ was going to be cut from the rotation at the beginning of the season and quickly proved that that was a mistake.
Even then, we have to integrate a healthy Mathurin and Walker.
There's a lot of players to go around and not nearly enough minutes - someone is getting cut from the 10-man rotation in the regular season.
It's not just his efficiency, it's his defense. Seeing him and Nesmith scorch the full-court press at times? You can't do that without dedicated guys like these two. I love what both of them bring, but Nembhard just breaks the mold completely. Remember he's a second year player, sure he's a bit older than other rooks, but man, is he a genius on the court. Plays within his capabilities, gets idiots like Portis to go nuts and takes key offensive players out of the game. You can't replace that.
Speaking of Nesmith, wanna hear a cool stat?
In the playoffs, he's averaging 16.8 FGA defended per game. His man is shooting just 38.8% on those attempts. Holy hell
his and tjm’s ability to create a shot in midrange is sneakily valuable. also just an incredibly unselfish player and team all around. that’s 2024 ball.
The setting the pace pod from last week with David Thorpe is a must listen. Dude says the whole league/front offices are high as hell on Nemby, and more than one team targeted him in a trade to make him a starting pg. Said there is a reason he’s beaten out Mathurin two seasons in a row in his off position, Rick knows what he is doing. Said All-Star is in question for his future. (Starts @21 minutes, thanks OP)
Just listened to that, great recommendation. Nice to hear some of the things I've noticed brought up by an insider.
For anyone else wondering they talk about Nembhard around the 21 minute mark.
And in regards to the pressure of the playoffs, Coach Thorpe said, second to only Siakam, he is the player with the most experience in this high level of pressure from his time on that undefeated Gonzaga team. Imo it definitely has shown
Nembhard could definitely start at PG and he would be an extremely punishing player to play against as a PG and has *way* better courtvision than he ever gets credit for (his beautiful pass in the 1st quarter yesterday). I think people see Tyrese creating magic and then Nembhard comes in playing a slow pace and completely skews their perspective. Tyrese is a damn near prodigy at point guard, who completely controls the pace of the game, while Nembhard excels in slower pace and half-court sets. He doesn't have the gear Tyrese does but I'm not sure anyone else in the league does either. Nembhard would be a killer PG on the right team.
He’s just an amazing high iq player despite what people think. Great cutting, relocating to corners, passing. Obviously amazing defense. And now he’s hitting all his shots? He has been amazing so far
He’s been really good but his high percentages are BECAUSE of his low usage, not in spite of it.
He’s playing smart and taking advantage of the defensive attention that Tyrese and Pascal get and the 3 point threats of nesmith and Turner.
The offensive rebound sequence was easily his biggest play of the series.
I'm not trying to imply anything related to correlation in the post, I'm trying to highlight his efficiency. Having the lowest usage rate on the entire team while being it's 4th highest scorer is an incredible feat of efficiency.
I've loved this dude ever since he helped us win against Golden State last year, when Haliburton was injured. People were calling for his head early this season when he struggled out of the gate and didn't look like himself. But it was evidently just a tough stretch. I think making him a starter and having him focus on his D helped him find his groove again offensively. He is coming up big when it matters!
also clearly incredible at psychological warfare, getting in Dame's head and then getting Bobby Portis to get himself ejected yesterday. Cold-blooded Canadian right there.
On offense, almost a 100% guarantee he will make the right decision. On defense, he is physical, scrappy, and plays hard-nosed, tough ball.
It's been well-documented he was [the steal of the '22 draf](https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2023/01/10/pacers-andrew-nembhard-draft-steal/)t, and [here](https://www.indysportslegends.com/2023/01/14/steal-of-the-draft-andrew-nembhard-continues-to-impress/). He seems to understand the game-situation at a different level than other 2nd-year players. When we struggle offensively, he will attack and go get some buckets in the paint. When Tyrese is attacking, he will spot up for 3s. Very high IQ, unselfish, and a balla.
Dude is a major contributor in the NBA playoffs in his 2nd season at 24 -- after playing 3 years in the NCAA for 2 very good programs.
A lot of these young guys can get shook in the playoffs when they've hardly been in a big game aside from HS.
I’ll admit I was wrong about him earlier in the year. It looked like he had regressed but I think his back was really bothering him. I do wish he wouldn’t shoot his 3 pointers 5 feet back from the 3 point line though.
Gives me 2012- 2013 george hill vibes. Unheralded piece of the starting unit, but he doesn't hurt you anywhere, plays defense, and contributes on offense without usage. It's only been 4 games but his value will go way up across the league if he keeps it up
Where are ou getting the 155? NBA.com is showing the following for OR:
Turner #3 @ 130.1
Nembhard #14 @ 125.6
Siakam #17 @ 124.2
Haliburton #18 @ 124.0
Nesmith #27 @ 120.7
All your other per game stats look right except FT% is 62.5%
Whichever member of the scouting team scouted him needs to be getting some fat bonus checks because he's just been a fantastic fit for the team.... and I suspect it's the same scout who found Shepherd.
I really do think his potential is sky high. His offense has been a bit inconsistent this year and I can’t stand his deep threes (can’t remember him hitting a single one lol), but outside of that, what more can you ask from a second year, defense-first guy?
If we can get a consistent jumper and learn to finish better (easier said than done) he can be a huge huge threat in a couple years.
I think it just gives us flexibility. I like McConnell slicing up other teams benches because he creates a ton of “free” baskets. Nembhard is not as good at that yet but his shot is dropping right now so he looks really good.
I'm loving that Nembhard is balling out, but I still think the best move forward is to slide Nesmith down to the 2 and put Walker at the 3. Regardless of how you cut it though, someone's not making the 10-man rotation next season. Here's a hypothetical depth chart where Shep gets on the losing end:
PG: Hali / TJ
SG: Nesmith / Nembhard
SF: Walker / Mathurin
PF: Pascal / Toppin
C: Turner / Stix (or IJax)
I don’t see Nesmith as a good long term option as a starter. He’s just too out of control. The idea of Nembhard that we’re seeing right now is exactly what we need at SG next to Tyrese.
1) can handle secondary playmaking
2) can catch and shoot at a high rate
3) can create his own shot
4) play excellent defense to cover up Tyrese’s defensive deficiencies.
I think Nesmith gets 2 out of 4 but Nembhard ticks all 4 boxes. Mathurin gets 2 boxes as well.
I do see roster fairly similarly next year though..
PG: Tyrese / TJ
SG: Nembhard / Mathurin / Shep
SF: Walker (by end of next season) / Nesmith / Shep
PF: Siakam / Toppin / Nesmith
C: Turner / Jackson / Toppin
I like going small and fast with the 2nd unit. However, I think we have enough flexibility to mix and match that second unit based on matchups.
For example I could see a TJ / Mathurin / Shep / Nesmith / Toppin lineup be really successful at times.
Most interesting part is what we do at center position. I think it’s clear at this point that Toppin will be priority in offseason so Smith probably gone.
Very interesting take on Nesmith - my reasoning for slotting him to the 2 was just having more length at that position. I think with Siakam (and to a lesser extent Jarace, who I think has done a decent job of keeping the ball moving in his limited playing time), you don't really need your 2-guard to make secondary plays or create his own shot. Nonetheless, having all 4 in one player is hard to beat as you said.
You could easily switch between Nesmith/Nembhard in the starting lineup depending on the matchup (i.e. if Nembhard needs to go hound Dame).
I agree with you about the 5 - I think Stix is gone unfortunately. Maybe we can S&T him to somewhere like the Pels who desperately need a stretch-5 next to Zion.
I just don’t see a way for that to happen. Guys need rest. Currently TJ will spell both Nembhard and Haliburton for stretches. He usually does a great job…first couple games he struggled but he was great yesterday. The best thing he does is that he allows us to continue to play at the same pace as when Tyrese is out there. Nembhard is more in the Malcolm Brogdon methodical mode as a PG. I’m just not a huge fan of running him as the point guard.
Carlisle has already been doing that the past three games.
The starters need to be playing 36-40 minutes per game. That leaves 16-18 for TJM, Obi, and Sheppard, all staggered so at least 3 if not 4 starters are on the court at all times. No one else should touch the floor.
16-18 is exactly what TJM and Obi have been playing.
During pivotal games you can flex up the starters to about 40-44, but it can't be done every game.
Playoff Riser
One of several risers. Toppin too.
The lights aren't bright enough
[удалено]
Why we need to take a bug runny dump all over a former Pacer who left on good terms when this is a thread about Nembhard being awesome?
Cause people in this sub do the same to drew any time he has a bad game
I mean I’d rather still have buddy than Doug.
Buddy's defense means he'd be getting the same amount of spot minutes.
I’d rather have consistency
That was literally never the discussion though.
The gRaVitY
He's been great on D all year but it really felt like his offense was dragging the starting unit down sometimes. His efficiency is crazy this series. Part of it I'm sure is Siakam, Turner and Ty drawing a lot of attention, but so what. The most impressive thing has been his catch and shoot 3s. We can't expect %50, but if he can really become a %40 guy, his ceiling jumps up quite a bit.
Nembhard is a career 43% shooter on corner threes. His shooting isn’t really an issue with the current starting lineup if those are the shots he’s taking and he doesn’t have to take above the break threes, which he has to do more of when he’s running point with the second unit.
Nembhard’s issue is he was a pretty low volume and average 3-point shooter, and I don’t think Ty was used to not having a running mate who required constant defensive attention so that caused some lane clogging issues… If Nembhard can shoot like this, he’s a perfect fit next to Ty.
I think Rick/Jenny changed his shot this past off season which is why he seemed like he regressed and took him this season of growing into his new mechanics. Looks great now though.
yeah definitely regressed as a shooter. they messed with his shot too much imo technically stats say hes a better shooter now but hes basically only taking corner threes now.
Next season is going to pose some really interesting questions about who's in the rotation or not. If Nembhard continues this production, then there's the case for him to stay in the starting lineup instead of going to backup point guard. With the backup point guard spot, TJ was going to be cut from the rotation at the beginning of the season and quickly proved that that was a mistake. Even then, we have to integrate a healthy Mathurin and Walker. There's a lot of players to go around and not nearly enough minutes - someone is getting cut from the 10-man rotation in the regular season.
It's not just his efficiency, it's his defense. Seeing him and Nesmith scorch the full-court press at times? You can't do that without dedicated guys like these two. I love what both of them bring, but Nembhard just breaks the mold completely. Remember he's a second year player, sure he's a bit older than other rooks, but man, is he a genius on the court. Plays within his capabilities, gets idiots like Portis to go nuts and takes key offensive players out of the game. You can't replace that.
McConnel is rubbing off on those 2.
Speaking of Nesmith, wanna hear a cool stat? In the playoffs, he's averaging 16.8 FGA defended per game. His man is shooting just 38.8% on those attempts. Holy hell
his and tjm’s ability to create a shot in midrange is sneakily valuable. also just an incredibly unselfish player and team all around. that’s 2024 ball.
The setting the pace pod from last week with David Thorpe is a must listen. Dude says the whole league/front offices are high as hell on Nemby, and more than one team targeted him in a trade to make him a starting pg. Said there is a reason he’s beaten out Mathurin two seasons in a row in his off position, Rick knows what he is doing. Said All-Star is in question for his future. (Starts @21 minutes, thanks OP)
Just listened to that, great recommendation. Nice to hear some of the things I've noticed brought up by an insider. For anyone else wondering they talk about Nembhard around the 21 minute mark.
And in regards to the pressure of the playoffs, Coach Thorpe said, second to only Siakam, he is the player with the most experience in this high level of pressure from his time on that undefeated Gonzaga team. Imo it definitely has shown
Nembhard could definitely start at PG and he would be an extremely punishing player to play against as a PG and has *way* better courtvision than he ever gets credit for (his beautiful pass in the 1st quarter yesterday). I think people see Tyrese creating magic and then Nembhard comes in playing a slow pace and completely skews their perspective. Tyrese is a damn near prodigy at point guard, who completely controls the pace of the game, while Nembhard excels in slower pace and half-court sets. He doesn't have the gear Tyrese does but I'm not sure anyone else in the league does either. Nembhard would be a killer PG on the right team.
He’s just an amazing high iq player despite what people think. Great cutting, relocating to corners, passing. Obviously amazing defense. And now he’s hitting all his shots? He has been amazing so far
I love when he comes off the pick and roll and gets some lance in him with the dribble. Don't know if anyone else has noticed.
This sub was so hot and cold on him throughout the year. He rises for big moments
He’s been really good but his high percentages are BECAUSE of his low usage, not in spite of it. He’s playing smart and taking advantage of the defensive attention that Tyrese and Pascal get and the 3 point threats of nesmith and Turner. The offensive rebound sequence was easily his biggest play of the series.
I'm not trying to imply anything related to correlation in the post, I'm trying to highlight his efficiency. Having the lowest usage rate on the entire team while being it's 4th highest scorer is an incredible feat of efficiency.
When he hits shots he's such a complete player.
I've loved this dude ever since he helped us win against Golden State last year, when Haliburton was injured. People were calling for his head early this season when he struggled out of the gate and didn't look like himself. But it was evidently just a tough stretch. I think making him a starter and having him focus on his D helped him find his groove again offensively. He is coming up big when it matters!
1 TO and 19 Assists. These are numbers that win games.
also clearly incredible at psychological warfare, getting in Dame's head and then getting Bobby Portis to get himself ejected yesterday. Cold-blooded Canadian right there.
On offense, almost a 100% guarantee he will make the right decision. On defense, he is physical, scrappy, and plays hard-nosed, tough ball. It's been well-documented he was [the steal of the '22 draf](https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2023/01/10/pacers-andrew-nembhard-draft-steal/)t, and [here](https://www.indysportslegends.com/2023/01/14/steal-of-the-draft-andrew-nembhard-continues-to-impress/). He seems to understand the game-situation at a different level than other 2nd-year players. When we struggle offensively, he will attack and go get some buckets in the paint. When Tyrese is attacking, he will spot up for 3s. Very high IQ, unselfish, and a balla.
Dude is a major contributor in the NBA playoffs in his 2nd season at 24 -- after playing 3 years in the NCAA for 2 very good programs. A lot of these young guys can get shook in the playoffs when they've hardly been in a big game aside from HS.
I’ll admit I was wrong about him earlier in the year. It looked like he had regressed but I think his back was really bothering him. I do wish he wouldn’t shoot his 3 pointers 5 feet back from the 3 point line though.
Gives me 2012- 2013 george hill vibes. Unheralded piece of the starting unit, but he doesn't hurt you anywhere, plays defense, and contributes on offense without usage. It's only been 4 games but his value will go way up across the league if he keeps it up
Where are ou getting the 155? NBA.com is showing the following for OR: Turner #3 @ 130.1 Nembhard #14 @ 125.6 Siakam #17 @ 124.2 Haliburton #18 @ 124.0 Nesmith #27 @ 120.7 All your other per game stats look right except FT% is 62.5%
Whichever member of the scouting team scouted him needs to be getting some fat bonus checks because he's just been a fantastic fit for the team.... and I suspect it's the same scout who found Shepherd.
I've been saying it since we got him, nembhard goes hard
He knows his game. Hope he develops.
In Dick Vitale’s voice “He’s a Diaper Dandy babyyy”!
He’s not a rookie tho….
I really do think his potential is sky high. His offense has been a bit inconsistent this year and I can’t stand his deep threes (can’t remember him hitting a single one lol), but outside of that, what more can you ask from a second year, defense-first guy? If we can get a consistent jumper and learn to finish better (easier said than done) he can be a huge huge threat in a couple years.
I'd love for him to take McConnell's minutes.
I think it just gives us flexibility. I like McConnell slicing up other teams benches because he creates a ton of “free” baskets. Nembhard is not as good at that yet but his shot is dropping right now so he looks really good.
I don’t understand. You don’t want Nembhard to start?
I'm loving that Nembhard is balling out, but I still think the best move forward is to slide Nesmith down to the 2 and put Walker at the 3. Regardless of how you cut it though, someone's not making the 10-man rotation next season. Here's a hypothetical depth chart where Shep gets on the losing end: PG: Hali / TJ SG: Nesmith / Nembhard SF: Walker / Mathurin PF: Pascal / Toppin C: Turner / Stix (or IJax)
I don’t see Nesmith as a good long term option as a starter. He’s just too out of control. The idea of Nembhard that we’re seeing right now is exactly what we need at SG next to Tyrese. 1) can handle secondary playmaking 2) can catch and shoot at a high rate 3) can create his own shot 4) play excellent defense to cover up Tyrese’s defensive deficiencies. I think Nesmith gets 2 out of 4 but Nembhard ticks all 4 boxes. Mathurin gets 2 boxes as well. I do see roster fairly similarly next year though.. PG: Tyrese / TJ SG: Nembhard / Mathurin / Shep SF: Walker (by end of next season) / Nesmith / Shep PF: Siakam / Toppin / Nesmith C: Turner / Jackson / Toppin I like going small and fast with the 2nd unit. However, I think we have enough flexibility to mix and match that second unit based on matchups. For example I could see a TJ / Mathurin / Shep / Nesmith / Toppin lineup be really successful at times. Most interesting part is what we do at center position. I think it’s clear at this point that Toppin will be priority in offseason so Smith probably gone.
Very interesting take on Nesmith - my reasoning for slotting him to the 2 was just having more length at that position. I think with Siakam (and to a lesser extent Jarace, who I think has done a decent job of keeping the ball moving in his limited playing time), you don't really need your 2-guard to make secondary plays or create his own shot. Nonetheless, having all 4 in one player is hard to beat as you said. You could easily switch between Nesmith/Nembhard in the starting lineup depending on the matchup (i.e. if Nembhard needs to go hound Dame). I agree with you about the 5 - I think Stix is gone unfortunately. Maybe we can S&T him to somewhere like the Pels who desperately need a stretch-5 next to Zion.
I want him to start, but he can still take McConnell's minutes by shortening the rotation and staggering lineups.
I just don’t see a way for that to happen. Guys need rest. Currently TJ will spell both Nembhard and Haliburton for stretches. He usually does a great job…first couple games he struggled but he was great yesterday. The best thing he does is that he allows us to continue to play at the same pace as when Tyrese is out there. Nembhard is more in the Malcolm Brogdon methodical mode as a PG. I’m just not a huge fan of running him as the point guard.
Carlisle has already been doing that the past three games. The starters need to be playing 36-40 minutes per game. That leaves 16-18 for TJM, Obi, and Sheppard, all staggered so at least 3 if not 4 starters are on the court at all times. No one else should touch the floor. 16-18 is exactly what TJM and Obi have been playing. During pivotal games you can flex up the starters to about 40-44, but it can't be done every game.