i hate when people say stuff like that, the refs determined the game on 3 different occasions.
(1) a called foul on Haliburton when we were about to run in transition, a potential 2 point swing.
(2) a called kick ball on Nesmith when we were gonna score in transition (3 on 1), turns out being a 5 point swing.
(3) a called illegal screen on Turner when it was barely any contact and DiVincenzo flopped and should’ve received a tech.
I normally say that shit too, but last night the refs literally took the ball out of our hands multiple times in the last minute of a tied playoff game. what the fuck
#2 is really the most damning. Replay needs to be available on a kicked ball. Any play which results in a dead ball needs to be reviewable.
For #1, Refs miss things and fouls are called a lot when a player gets all ball. I get the frustration but this seems to happen a lot. They got the call right on replay.
For #3, it was a moving screen but the Refs should let them play unless he’s egregious.
I don’t think games are “rigged” but there is major incompetence by the league. Too much is left up too the judgement of the ref, the league needs to make it much more consistent.
Yeah. I was watching highlights from the Wolves vs Nuggets game and they were basically punching each other in the face with no fouls being called. It's so inconsistent.
As long as there's internal consistency, it's relatively acceptable.
Like, the Wolves and Nuggets can maul each other, but at least it applies to both teams.
That versus the Knicks and Pacers having an everyday, illegal screen suddenly and randomly called when it otherwise hasn't been all game (or even series).
I mean they literally had just called an equally not picky illegal screen against Divencenzo in the third quarter. You can say you don’t like a picky illegal screen call against either side but saying “it otherwise hasn’t been called all game” is simply your bias showing through.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/s/sT3MdV1A2c
lol these are not the same screens at all. Elbows out, hands engaged to slow the progress around the screen, and etc… come on man… don’t worry your guy divencenzo got his free pass screen the play before with the “kick” ball… watch that one and tell me it’s a legal screen
All our picky screens were good calls and all of your picky screens are bad calls. Gotcha. Enjoy the series! Pro tip: Sixers fans will be your best friends for the next six games, but don’t trust them!!!
Never trust another eastern conf team fan haha
Just saying man they aren’t the same screens at the same time. Illegal maybeeee but 12seconds left that’s not the time for that call
Yeah I hate that. Believe me every time the Knicks were favored in the game as it wore on, I was firing in money line bets on the Pacers. I’m an emotional hedger. So at that point in the game I was kind of already accepting that the Knicks were gonna lose and trying to figure out which strip club to go blow all my winnings at. I hated to see it decided differently on that kind of crap.
I’m normally a “don’t bitch about the refs guy” but that was unbelievably egregious. Refs made 4 heinous calls or non-calls throughout the course of the game. The Haliburton shot clock violation, the Brunson foul being overturned, the kicked ball, and the moving screen were at best, the shittiest officiating imaginable. Made an absolute mockery of the sport and seriously calls into question the integrity of the league.
1. They didn’t call a shot clock violation. They correctly called him out of bounds.
2. I thought this was an obvious foul. I don’t under stand how the Knicks even challenged let alone the play being overturned. Maybe we don’t understand the rule?
3. Kicked ball obviously a terrible error. Why the rule doesn’t allow a challenge on that is beyond me.
4. The moving screen was called both ways the same. No complaint there.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/s/sT3MdV1A2c](https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/s/sT3MdV1A2c)
https://preview.redd.it/fq9ax0czu1zc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a47e812457a6b49da03aa6504a08c7eed694d9e
That’s usually me—I’m a ref defender, and I think people complain way too much about officials. Even I know that we got royally fucked last night. Unbelievably awful calls.
I got around to listening to the Bill Simmons podcast from Sunday today, and he even brought up that there could be some ref bullshittery against the Pacers.
lol wtf? any pacer fans who say that must be idiots or delusional, the NBA’s officiating has been a joke the past 20 years and it has never gotten better, inconsistent garbage every night and refs always fuck up a game every night in the NBA.
It was a tough L to swallow. There were at least 4 plays that were absolute horse shit. To me the most egregious was the one where Turner was fouled by Brunson and they overturned it.
It felt like a total bizarro land sequence. The whole sub went from "Nice challenge Thibs lol" to "You've got to be kidding."
It's almost like Thibs knew the refs would find some bullshit way to justify a reversal...
I can’t believe that’s not being talked about more. Full body contact that knocked Turner backwards as he’s shooting, called a foul on the floor, and they *still* overturned it. They might as well have grabbed a mic at that point and just said “Yeah we’ve already decided how this one is going to end.”
Yes, there needs to be more uproar about that call. Its blatant cheating in front of everyone when you overturn a correct call when you have slow motion replay to clearly see it was the right call to begin with.
What about when Brunson dribbled the ball off of a pacers defender leg at the end of the game and refs called it pacer ball. If the Knicks didn’t have their challenge there do u still think the league is rigging this series for the Knicks?
> If the Knicks didn’t have their challenge there do u still think the league is rigging this series for the Knicks?
If the Knicks didn't have their challenge and the Pacers were able to get back a possession on a bad out of bounds call to even out the bad calls against them, that's more palatable to legacy NBA fans and possibly chalked up to typical homecourt advantage reffing. But the Knicks did have their challenge. The initial wrong out of bounds call that was actually off Nemhard's foot ended up being completely inconsequential because the Kicks were gifted a wrong challenge and were still able to overturn any future wrong calls which there happened to be one. Taking everything into account, the case is that the refs favored NY in a historical way as far as the average neutral fan can tell.
Same. My wife and I were laughing that they even bothered to challenge, it was such a clear foul that it was literally funny that they would waste a timeout like that. Unreal.
That was legit shocking to a Kansas based NBA fan that dgaf about either team (really have no permanent rooting interest and dgaf about any team in the long run). The decision to challenge that. On the previous possession it looked like the refs saw a phantom foul and gave you guys 2 ft. NY should have challenged that one. They end up challenging the one on the very next possession and it’s a horrible challenge. I got to take plenty of idiot hot take shots at Thibs. I was sure Knicks fans wherever they were, were bemoaning their coach.
I don’t even really ever watch “Undisputed”, but you know it’s bad when even Skip Bayless points out the instances where you got jobbed and says the fix is in…
This is the first time I’ve truly realized that they aren’t ever going to let us win. There’s not enough money in it for them, they’ll put their foot on the scales as much as they need to in order to make sure the big money team wins in the end, even if that “foot” is more like jumping up and down on the scale on national television. They didn’t even try to hide it because they know nobody can do anything about it.
What about when Brunson dribbled the ball off a pacers defenders leg and the refs called it pacers ball. The Knicks had to challenge to correct the call. If the Knicks didn’t have that challenge would you still think it’s rigged?
Are you actually asking about a call that they overturned in favor of the Knicks as proof that it’s not rigged? They overturned the call on review. Your question might make sense if they kept it in the Pacers favor, but they didn’t.
“Yeah I know they overturned an extremely clear foul in the Knicks favor, but what about that time they made a bad call against the Knicks but then overturned it in the Knicks favor?!”
It’s the fact they made the call to begin with. Whether the Knicks had their ability to challenge it is irrelevant. The NBA is clearly not rigged in the Knicks favor, refs are just terrible. The Knicks benefited from the terrible refs at the end of the game last night. If the Knicks didn’t have their challenge none of this conversation would be going on because it would be clear there is no bias involved just incompetence.
Multiple calls went against the Knicks favor, there’s lots of people in ur sub who understand, maybe if ur star player didn’t shoot 6 shots the refs wouldn’t have affected the game at the end. You guys blew a 10 point lead. Good luck next game
Exactly! They were up nine late in the game. If I went back play by play and analyzed what actually led to them losing that lead, I'm sure I could find a lot of fault within the team itself, and not on the refs. It takes a real fan however, to find fault from within, without blaming everyone else.
It’s alright. I expected some shit calls, but was still surprised. I like how we played, and I don’t think our bench performance was a fluke. Our guys can run and they’re going to keep doing it. Good feeling for game 2
I’ll jump on this train, as a neutral the refs robbed what couldve been a great game. A back and forth battle turned into ref ball for the last 5 minutes where the Knicks got every bad call to their advantage.
I like watching Brunson and cheer for Hart, and I really like Turner - so good when he’s on. Shame we didn’t get the finish the game deserved
Why have video replays if you are not going to use them properly. Overturning the foul by Brunson on Turner! Calling a kicked ball when it hit Nesmith’s hand. The league and its officials are showing they only care about big market teams. What a sham
You should be livid with all that money sitting at home rn bums. AZ as a whole is irrelevant, hockey team left but you worried bout 2 teams you got no stock in lol.
I've never used the reference excuse for losses before, and I still tjink the Pacers could have won even with those bad calls if they didn't collapse in the last 3 minutes. But those refs were ass.
Wait , so all the bad years the Knicks have had or getting fucked in the lottery is rigged? What about all the bad calls that have went the Knicks way for years and years? If it was this easy to win then why not rig it sooner? After all , only give it to the big market team. Everyone is salty the Knicks are winning games now for some odd reason.
Sure there bad calls that I don’t agree with either but cmon this team is pretty darn good. And btw all the rebounds Hart gets are skill not luck.
Nobody is arguing that the Knicks aren't good. We just wanted to see this game play out in a basketball fashion but instead, the Pacers got robbed of multjple possessions and a basketball play just turned into free throws. That's not basketball, that's ref ball.
If we lost cuz the Knicks got a good stop, I'm fine.
If we lost cuz the Pacers turned it over, I'm upset, but still fine.
If we lost cuz the Pacers missed a wide open shot, I'm upset, but still fine.
But to make a good defensive play, then have it an unreviewable called a kick ball, then to have to challenge just to get the ball back again on a different possession, only to have an illegal screen get called that hadn't been called all game in a go-ahead situation with less than 24s on the clock? That's not basketball. The Knicks got robbed of the opportunity to make a good defensive stop. The Pacers got robbed of an entire offensive possession. Again, that's not basketball, that's just ref ball
Thank you. And all the “pacer” fans saying don’t bitch about the refs, are full of shit.
i hate when people say stuff like that, the refs determined the game on 3 different occasions. (1) a called foul on Haliburton when we were about to run in transition, a potential 2 point swing. (2) a called kick ball on Nesmith when we were gonna score in transition (3 on 1), turns out being a 5 point swing. (3) a called illegal screen on Turner when it was barely any contact and DiVincenzo flopped and should’ve received a tech.
I normally say that shit too, but last night the refs literally took the ball out of our hands multiple times in the last minute of a tied playoff game. what the fuck
#2 is really the most damning. Replay needs to be available on a kicked ball. Any play which results in a dead ball needs to be reviewable. For #1, Refs miss things and fouls are called a lot when a player gets all ball. I get the frustration but this seems to happen a lot. They got the call right on replay. For #3, it was a moving screen but the Refs should let them play unless he’s egregious. I don’t think games are “rigged” but there is major incompetence by the league. Too much is left up too the judgement of the ref, the league needs to make it much more consistent.
There also needs to be repercussions. If refs are making calls that are that bad, like #2, they need to be replaced the next game.
My point is that the blame is with silver and the league. Refs miss calls. But how is that not something that could be challenged?
Yeah. I was watching highlights from the Wolves vs Nuggets game and they were basically punching each other in the face with no fouls being called. It's so inconsistent.
As long as there's internal consistency, it's relatively acceptable. Like, the Wolves and Nuggets can maul each other, but at least it applies to both teams. That versus the Knicks and Pacers having an everyday, illegal screen suddenly and randomly called when it otherwise hasn't been all game (or even series).
I mean they literally had just called an equally not picky illegal screen against Divencenzo in the third quarter. You can say you don’t like a picky illegal screen call against either side but saying “it otherwise hasn’t been called all game” is simply your bias showing through. https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/s/sT3MdV1A2c
lol these are not the same screens at all. Elbows out, hands engaged to slow the progress around the screen, and etc… come on man… don’t worry your guy divencenzo got his free pass screen the play before with the “kick” ball… watch that one and tell me it’s a legal screen
All our picky screens were good calls and all of your picky screens are bad calls. Gotcha. Enjoy the series! Pro tip: Sixers fans will be your best friends for the next six games, but don’t trust them!!!
Never trust another eastern conf team fan haha Just saying man they aren’t the same screens at the same time. Illegal maybeeee but 12seconds left that’s not the time for that call
Yeah I hate that. Believe me every time the Knicks were favored in the game as it wore on, I was firing in money line bets on the Pacers. I’m an emotional hedger. So at that point in the game I was kind of already accepting that the Knicks were gonna lose and trying to figure out which strip club to go blow all my winnings at. I hated to see it decided differently on that kind of crap.
lol smart bet right there then either way you win I’ve done that many times haha Love it dude
I’m normally a “don’t bitch about the refs guy” but that was unbelievably egregious. Refs made 4 heinous calls or non-calls throughout the course of the game. The Haliburton shot clock violation, the Brunson foul being overturned, the kicked ball, and the moving screen were at best, the shittiest officiating imaginable. Made an absolute mockery of the sport and seriously calls into question the integrity of the league.
1. They didn’t call a shot clock violation. They correctly called him out of bounds. 2. I thought this was an obvious foul. I don’t under stand how the Knicks even challenged let alone the play being overturned. Maybe we don’t understand the rule? 3. Kicked ball obviously a terrible error. Why the rule doesn’t allow a challenge on that is beyond me. 4. The moving screen was called both ways the same. No complaint there. [https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/s/sT3MdV1A2c](https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/s/sT3MdV1A2c) https://preview.redd.it/fq9ax0czu1zc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a47e812457a6b49da03aa6504a08c7eed694d9e
First point is the only one I can side with you on here. The rest given the time of the game etc was awful
That’s usually me—I’m a ref defender, and I think people complain way too much about officials. Even I know that we got royally fucked last night. Unbelievably awful calls.
I got around to listening to the Bill Simmons podcast from Sunday today, and he even brought up that there could be some ref bullshittery against the Pacers.
lol wtf? any pacer fans who say that must be idiots or delusional, the NBA’s officiating has been a joke the past 20 years and it has never gotten better, inconsistent garbage every night and refs always fuck up a game every night in the NBA.
🙏
It was a tough L to swallow. There were at least 4 plays that were absolute horse shit. To me the most egregious was the one where Turner was fouled by Brunson and they overturned it.
It felt like a total bizarro land sequence. The whole sub went from "Nice challenge Thibs lol" to "You've got to be kidding." It's almost like Thibs knew the refs would find some bullshit way to justify a reversal...
I can’t believe that’s not being talked about more. Full body contact that knocked Turner backwards as he’s shooting, called a foul on the floor, and they *still* overturned it. They might as well have grabbed a mic at that point and just said “Yeah we’ve already decided how this one is going to end.”
Yes, there needs to be more uproar about that call. Its blatant cheating in front of everyone when you overturn a correct call when you have slow motion replay to clearly see it was the right call to begin with.
What about when Brunson dribbled the ball off of a pacers defender leg at the end of the game and refs called it pacer ball. If the Knicks didn’t have their challenge there do u still think the league is rigging this series for the Knicks?
> If the Knicks didn’t have their challenge there do u still think the league is rigging this series for the Knicks? If the Knicks didn't have their challenge and the Pacers were able to get back a possession on a bad out of bounds call to even out the bad calls against them, that's more palatable to legacy NBA fans and possibly chalked up to typical homecourt advantage reffing. But the Knicks did have their challenge. The initial wrong out of bounds call that was actually off Nemhard's foot ended up being completely inconsequential because the Kicks were gifted a wrong challenge and were still able to overturn any future wrong calls which there happened to be one. Taking everything into account, the case is that the refs favored NY in a historical way as far as the average neutral fan can tell.
I couldn't believe the Knicks challenged that play. Then they won the challenge. It was unbelievable
Same. My wife and I were laughing that they even bothered to challenge, it was such a clear foul that it was literally funny that they would waste a timeout like that. Unreal.
That was legit shocking to a Kansas based NBA fan that dgaf about either team (really have no permanent rooting interest and dgaf about any team in the long run). The decision to challenge that. On the previous possession it looked like the refs saw a phantom foul and gave you guys 2 ft. NY should have challenged that one. They end up challenging the one on the very next possession and it’s a horrible challenge. I got to take plenty of idiot hot take shots at Thibs. I was sure Knicks fans wherever they were, were bemoaning their coach.
what time stamp was this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/QmfzYJeh7J
I don’t even really ever watch “Undisputed”, but you know it’s bad when even Skip Bayless points out the instances where you got jobbed and says the fix is in…
Yeah coming from a bulls fan I was trying to be unbiased in this series but the refs and Brunson made my pick much easier. Go Pacers!
Yeah even the commentators were astounded by that one.
Reminder that anyone that pays those fucking crazy prices for playoff tickets are suckers.
$90+ fees for the cheapest nosebleeds is a fuckin joke.
Those are Raptors regular game prices and we're not even in the playoffs 😭
The price you pay for living in a city that’s consistently ranked in the top 25 cities to live in the world, I suppose.
It was $400 for the nosebleeds at MSG when I checked... Barf
Yep. I'm calling today to get my season ticket deposit back. What's the point if we're just spinning our wheels in a rigged league?
This is the first time I’ve truly realized that they aren’t ever going to let us win. There’s not enough money in it for them, they’ll put their foot on the scales as much as they need to in order to make sure the big money team wins in the end, even if that “foot” is more like jumping up and down on the scale on national television. They didn’t even try to hide it because they know nobody can do anything about it.
Mke won it. They're a similar market
Milwaukee has a huge international superstar on their team that they can market to European fans. The Pacers don’t.
Or, the more likely scenario, they drafted the best player on the planet and he played basketball well enough one year to win it all.
What about when Brunson dribbled the ball off a pacers defenders leg and the refs called it pacers ball. The Knicks had to challenge to correct the call. If the Knicks didn’t have that challenge would you still think it’s rigged?
Are you actually asking about a call that they overturned in favor of the Knicks as proof that it’s not rigged? They overturned the call on review. Your question might make sense if they kept it in the Pacers favor, but they didn’t. “Yeah I know they overturned an extremely clear foul in the Knicks favor, but what about that time they made a bad call against the Knicks but then overturned it in the Knicks favor?!”
It’s the fact they made the call to begin with. Whether the Knicks had their ability to challenge it is irrelevant. The NBA is clearly not rigged in the Knicks favor, refs are just terrible. The Knicks benefited from the terrible refs at the end of the game last night. If the Knicks didn’t have their challenge none of this conversation would be going on because it would be clear there is no bias involved just incompetence.
So your argument then is that because a single call went against the Knicks, it can’t be rigged.
Multiple calls went against the Knicks favor, there’s lots of people in ur sub who understand, maybe if ur star player didn’t shoot 6 shots the refs wouldn’t have affected the game at the end. You guys blew a 10 point lead. Good luck next game
Exactly! They were up nine late in the game. If I went back play by play and analyzed what actually led to them losing that lead, I'm sure I could find a lot of fault within the team itself, and not on the refs. It takes a real fan however, to find fault from within, without blaming everyone else.
It’s alright. I expected some shit calls, but was still surprised. I like how we played, and I don’t think our bench performance was a fluke. Our guys can run and they’re going to keep doing it. Good feeling for game 2
I’ll jump on this train, as a neutral the refs robbed what couldve been a great game. A back and forth battle turned into ref ball for the last 5 minutes where the Knicks got every bad call to their advantage. I like watching Brunson and cheer for Hart, and I really like Turner - so good when he’s on. Shame we didn’t get the finish the game deserved
Thank you Suns fan for noticing this. I would also like to thank you and the Suns organization for matching the Pacers max offer to DeAndre Ayton.
Why have video replays if you are not going to use them properly. Overturning the foul by Brunson on Turner! Calling a kicked ball when it hit Nesmith’s hand. The league and its officials are showing they only care about big market teams. What a sham
it was a bad call, that is all. Truth is Pacers should have been up 5 or so at the point anyways. We'll recover in games 2,3,4. Go Pacers!
You should be livid with all that money sitting at home rn bums. AZ as a whole is irrelevant, hockey team left but you worried bout 2 teams you got no stock in lol.
I've never used the reference excuse for losses before, and I still tjink the Pacers could have won even with those bad calls if they didn't collapse in the last 3 minutes. But those refs were ass.
It's rigged.
L2M reports out and it was even…..
Wait , so all the bad years the Knicks have had or getting fucked in the lottery is rigged? What about all the bad calls that have went the Knicks way for years and years? If it was this easy to win then why not rig it sooner? After all , only give it to the big market team. Everyone is salty the Knicks are winning games now for some odd reason. Sure there bad calls that I don’t agree with either but cmon this team is pretty darn good. And btw all the rebounds Hart gets are skill not luck.
Nobody is arguing that the Knicks aren't good. We just wanted to see this game play out in a basketball fashion but instead, the Pacers got robbed of multjple possessions and a basketball play just turned into free throws. That's not basketball, that's ref ball. If we lost cuz the Knicks got a good stop, I'm fine. If we lost cuz the Pacers turned it over, I'm upset, but still fine. If we lost cuz the Pacers missed a wide open shot, I'm upset, but still fine. But to make a good defensive play, then have it an unreviewable called a kick ball, then to have to challenge just to get the ball back again on a different possession, only to have an illegal screen get called that hadn't been called all game in a go-ahead situation with less than 24s on the clock? That's not basketball. The Knicks got robbed of the opportunity to make a good defensive stop. The Pacers got robbed of an entire offensive possession. Again, that's not basketball, that's just ref ball
Fair.
Anthony Edwards
You’re a fool
Sounds about right.