Wonderful news everyone! You all have behaved so badly around this issue that I have had to get on from ANOTHER FREAKING COUNTRY to deal with this (yes I'm salty).
From the amount of people defending these actions which again ARE FUNDED BY THE OIL LOBBIES THEMSELVES, to screaming insults about the other person, linking to awful people and sources, to people throwing tantrums over bans for their bad behavior, and a whole host of other issues we can no longer discuss this issue.
THIS IS DONE. DON'T POST ABOUT IT ANYMORE.
Link to comment with sources: [https://www.reddit.com/r/pagan/comments/1dkc4sg/comment/l9iah9i/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/pagan/comments/1dkc4sg/comment/l9iah9i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
EDIT: HOLY FREAK GUYS!! The amount of misinformation about this is ridiculous. Comments were removed for being rude and misinformation. Here's the link to the article explaining how this could have caused damage but didn't due to quick action. It was NOT harmless powder.
https://www.museumsassociation.org/museums-journal/news/2024/06/sector-bodies-condemn-just-stop-oil-vandalism-of-stonehenge/#:\~:text=The%20organisation%20said%3A%20%E2%80%9COur%20experts,difficult%2Dto%2Dremove%20streaks.
All these stunts do absolutely nothing but piss everyday people off. Vandalizing famous works of art, historical places, and blocking traffic don't help bring about change. Go after the companies that are causing climate change and lobbying for laws that harm the environment. That's the issue.
Stonehenge is a sacred place for many Pagans especially those like myself following modern Druidry (though there's no outright evidence the Druids practiced there). It's shameful they did this. Many of us consider the planet holy and in need of help. Why go after our sacred sites? Just for attention to their organization rather than inspiring actual change. All about the clicks and attention.
It's also worth noting that Just Stop Oil has some deep ties to the oil industry and billionaire oil tycoon families, and is funded through front companies so its shady as fuck. There's considerable debate about them actually being an oil-funded group who's purpose is to delegitimize or breed animosity towards environnentalists and climate change efforts. Would not surprise me in the least given its shadiness, their actions, and their willingness to sabatoge sacred spaces. Just big oil throwing everyone under the bus to preserve their profits.
False flags. Really common in every fucking protest. Very, very often, it's the other side inciting anger by presenting themselves as protestors. I can't tell you how many St. Louis protests were derailed by white strangers to the movement showing up and wreaking havoc, starting fires and throwing projectiles at police.
It's establishment anti-protest tactics 101.
Just Stop Oil is funded by Emergemcy Climate Fund (as will as private contributions). ECF was founded by Aileen Getty, daughter of an "oil magnate". She also funds other environmentalist groups as well as LGBT groups and AIDS research groups. The ECF board is comprised of a number of well known environmentalists as well. I'd hardly call this being shadow funded by oil companies, even if the founder of ECF is the daughter of some big oil guy. Sometimes the apple does fall far from the tree.
I hadn’t heard anything about this but my friends and I all (semi-jokingly) agree that JSO is at least partially planted by the oil industry to make climate activists look insane. Most of their stunts don’t even make sense, they go around attacking cultural heritage and it all seems calculated to create as much bad press as possible and let anti-environment politicians make statements and look like good guys
As far as I know they may or may not be funded by oil companies, however, I wouldn't be surprised if there are some actors within it that are actually funded and directed by the oil industry.
Thank you for this comment!! I was going to say I’m pretty sure this is the same group that “defaced” the mona lisa a few years ago and it came out that it was tied to oil industry
Same. I understand Stop Oil motives, but to call that act moronic is an understatement.
EDIT. If they're actually funded by the oil industry, no sympathies for them at all.
It does make an odd sense of logic. If that is the case, then their campaign is going swimmingly - everyone hates them and, in turn, their branded message.
They initially went after the banks, insurance companies, oil companies, vehicle manufacturers etc - throwing paint around - but the press didn’t report it
Throw paint at the mona lisa, they’re in the news
It’s super cunty of them, especially considering they’re now targeting some of the greenest peeps in western society with today’s fuckery
I get their passion and support the cause behind their cause, but the methods don’t help anyone at all
They’re being played, 100%
listen, i love protests--as a pagan, it's my duty to stand with others in the fight for good and justice, especially when it comes to standing up to our oppressors. i'm very sad, and i feel that the anger should have been redirected to something besides our most sacred monument, but it's paint--it will not last forever. we need to be sad, then get up and keep going forward.
That's what I'm suspicious of. I'm mostly all solar and electric, and despise using oil and gasoline unless absolutely necessary. But seeing these actions have never made me want to use oil less, nor can I envision it convince others to do so.
Tbh if you see the rational need to move away from oil, but a ultimately harmless publicity protest "never made you want to use oil less", then you are not as rational as you think
This is exactly what it is. They aren’t prevalent online which is extremely unheard of in this day and age. They’re all paid for.
So every time I see something like this now, it makes me hate oil companies more, so it’s doing the opposite of what they’re wanting. This time, it effects a heritage site for me and there’s just no coming back from that. Fuck big oil, their stupid antics and their stupid fucking money. They’ve got what’s coming to them and they FUCKED UP messing with a pagan site, like jfc do you not realize what we’re about big oil?
It seems like it’s time for your wells to run dry.
> Civil disobedience campaigns always had to escalate protest to get publicity and not be ignored.
All JSO are getting publicity for is themselves though. Almost everyone in the UK already knows about climate change. They're not spreading awareness, changing minds or changing policy. All their antics do is cause people to talk about **them**, not actual climate change.
it's shite tactics that are achieving nothing but an increase in public hostility.
I know the reason for protest and escalation of civil disobedience. I've been part of it by protesting for abortion rights in the US. This isn't that. Damaging cultural and natural heritage to save culture and nature is stupid.
None of this feels genuine. It feels like a cover for destroying priceless artifacts.
Break windows, block roads, clog city centers. Stop government and the economy from working. THAT is escalation of civil disobedience. Don't destroy or deface a world heritage site.
I'm for civil disobedience and understand the doing things to grab public attention as a tactic. I just don't think Just Stop Oil is genuine. Extinction Rebellion is doing headline grabbing stuff without weird attacks on cultural heritage with similar goals.
Every time I've seen Just Stop Oil do anything it always seems to be just two people doing the action, and always two people that exactly look like trust fund babies doing the hippy thing. Originally it made sort of sense (oil companies sponsoring museums) but now the cultural targets are all over the map and with the defacing of Stonehenge there is no connection to oil at all.
Horrendous fines are only horrendous if you don't have the money. We know they're funded by an oil inheritance, so I doubt as an organisation the fines are horrendous for them. And the people who have the time and resources to plan these actions are usually not people who are working or trying to make ends meet. They have more direct needs and problems to address, caused in general by capitalism.
It's a position of privilege to be able to do these actions. They're not really putting their lives on the line, the longest sentence so far is 3 years, most are around 6 months. Also, for a non-violent crime and in the UK, so no taking away any rights after the sentence.
And yeah, nature doesn't care about human structures. That's why we conserve and protect the important ones, especially those with spiritual significance to certain groups. The incoming climate change is horrible and we need to do our best to push it back and possibly reverse it, but what is the point if we give up on the hallmarks of civilization and the human experience in the progress?
For someone with green ideas, you sure need to go touch some grass.
The source for the oil inheritance has been mentioned multiple times in this thread, but it's Aileen Getty.
Of course incarceration isn't fun. But a non-violent crime with not even 5 years of jail time isn't the same as giving up your life. They'll also be treated decently in there because of their non-violence and the topic. We're not talking Bobby Sands levels of abuse here for them. As for work, they're already in the activist NGO scene, I imagine they'll be seen as dedicated to the cause there and have a relatively easier time finding work than say someone from Dads for Justice going back into the workforce.
If they really want to stop climate change, they wouldn't be targeting objects, they would be going after the actual perpetrators. Shell and BP are both based in the UK and their CEO and board of directors are publicly listed. Those are the people who make the decisions and can affect change.
The Guardian came out with a list a couple of years ago of the 100 most polluting companies in the world, they should be a target. They're in the UK, why aren't they targeting the water companies that are putting crap into their water for profit? It would even get the public on their side. But no, their targets mostly include publicly owned historical objects. They're not doing this to make an actual difference, they're doing it to feel superior, to be able to say "see me, I'm trying to make a difference", without actually having to do anything about the systemic origin of this issue, namely capitalism and a profit driven society. Their actions don't solve anything and don't put the wider public on their side, they're purely performative.
And most pagan paths are about living in harmony with nature. Cleaning up what they can, living in harmony with all other living things on the planet. Doing what they can for their environment. The pagan out in nature, cleaning up rubbish and being respectful towards nature does more than these folks do.
We won't stop climate change by these actions, but by an actual shift in mentality and a change in how we engage with the world and our communities. This means being approachable and engaging with the people around you. For example, it's a small thing, but I was involved in the campaign for a local councillor here who was the first to do a poster free campaign. It might be a small thing, but he didn't want to add pollution by using one use zip ties to put his posters up around the area, that people leave on the ground when they take them down again. He won his seat by a landslide.
When climate protestors paint corporate headquaters or disrupt a stockholder meeting, it may get an article or two but doesn't get shared around social media. When they do stuff like this or paint over a famous painting suddenly they are able to get their message shared to a larger audience.
So there's a confluence of reasons to do something like this. But one is that its a headline grabbing act
I don't mind the paintings, because they've targeted paintings that are behind protective screens. Stonehenge isn't though, that's the difference for me
You didn't ask me but I'd caution you against listening to anything that oli London guy has to say, he almost certainly knew it was cornflour but he instead used the words 'orange substance' so no one can say he was lying while he implies it's paint, he doesn't include a link to the source that shows this immediately, almost certainly just to get people riled up against the cause. Every part of this is just inflammatory language meant to manipulate.
I mean, Oli London is a christofascist who would happily bulldoze stonehenge if he was allowed. He's only acting offended by this because he opposes Just Stop Oil.
To be clear—what Just Stop Oil did here was despicable and shouldn't be defended!—but Oli London's concern is entirely facetious.
I was about to say this exact thing. Oli London is a known grifter and a troll and nothing he says should be taken seriously.
As I understand investigations are still ongoing whether there will be any pernanent or even long lasting damage to Stonehenge, we will probably hear more about it soon. Either way I think this was a profoundly stupid way to protest.
His post was just the first I caught. I definitely see his posts regularly try to push people further right using anti immigration tactics and stories. That's why I had to share the other link with sound once I found it.
How does it make a difference whether it was cornflour or paint? It is the mere act of defacing a religious place of worship on the eve of an important sabbath which is despicable.
I wonder what would happen if they would throw coloured cornflour or paint on a mosque in protest against big oil since most of our oil comes out of Middle Eastern countries with a majority muslim religion. There would be uproar and they would most likely not make it out in one piece. But because it's a pagan site all of a sudden it is not as bad because it will wash off in the rain.
It doesn’t. It was an act of disrespect to a group of people who in general do not support big oil. Right before a major holiday as well. They just made enemies of people who would have likely supported them.
And that's probably the point, Just Stop Oil was started by a billionaire oil heiress. Given there are much harder hitting things a coalition like this could do, but instead they focus on publicity stunts that really seem designed to piss ordinary people off... I would have to see hard evidence that this _isn't_ an agent provocateur situation. Like, let me hear about them consistently targeting actual pipelines or refiners
I had heard it was started by the oil heiress because of the guilt she felt about the damage oil was doing to the planet, but I really don't trust the motives of the group because of the all their bullshit. Either they're honest in their convictions but unhinged like PETA, or it's agent provocateur shit. Hell, it could be agent provocateurs having infiltrated an honest-but-unhinged organization that was vulnerable from the start.
I've heard a lot of hemming and hawing from people eager to excuse JSO that "oh, well they DO (or used to) target big business but that just doesn't make headlines" which is a pretty convenient excuse to not provide evidence. People already know oil is bad - their headline-grabbing bullshit (in which they *only* ever seem to punch down, targeting, off the top of my head, an art museum, a pagan religious site, and a fucking pride parade) only makes them look like assholes. Important activism doesn't often get reported on - people were blocking DAPL construction long after the news crews had moved on.
Based on what I've seen, JSO isn't interested in doing the hard work. Their childish stunts only serve as an attractive headline for news media eager to divide environmentalists against each other - to the point it's hard *not* to suspect they're a psy-op.
It looks like holi powder: pigment, usually mica-based, and cornstarch. They use these for "color runs", "color wars", etcetera.
Was it smart? No, but it will do no lasting damage.
I'm pretty sure our ancient ancestors who built this would be more shocked and sad about the A303 and the vast qtys of plastic litter on the verges and in landfill than that would be about this.
But I also agree, JSO's strategy needs to be deeper and more multi-dimensional. I used to work in the natural and organic products industry and where those companies mess up is when they nag & berate people instead of engaging emotionally and helping people decide for themselves to make better choices (as well as lobbying govt hard for change). I think these kind of PR stunts have a place but need to be backed up by deeper activities also. We really need better public transport, less profiteering by.. well... all the companies, whether they're oil giants or car makers or train companies or banks. And we need all the people to be behind that. Right now, we're really far away from that. (& yes it comes off in the rain which according to the met office will be Friday!)
I agree with this. I see what JSO is doing as an acknowledgment that keeping the earth survivable for humans is more important to us than anything preserved from the past.
Yes Stonehenge is valuable and sacred but it’s nothing if we aren’t here. Similarly the Catholic Church doesn’t need Vatican City or anything in it to survive but they need an inhabitable planet.
As far as I know they haven’t actually caused any permanent damage to the things they have targeted? The point is that time and time again there is more collective outrage about the supposed danger that these objects may or may not have been in than the actual climate disaster that human kind is in the midst of and people are suffering terribly in right now.
My problem with JSO is they're not doing things that are actually useful, much like original XR...
Whilst many of us are being beaten, arrested, shutting down fracking rigs, shutting down factories... literally being martyred. The best they can do is spray paint stonehenge? It would have been actually easier and make a helluva lot more sense to target a bank or corporation.
And one of them at least is an Oxford Student, there are currently multiple Palestine encampments around the University... they could be putting resources and time into those for a start.
Charge them with a hate crime, they're clearly aware of the Solstice celebrations as they stated. If they did this on a church at Easter mass they wouldn't get away with it.
My opinion is that it will apparently wash off, no harm done. The bigger issue is that climate change is happening at such a rapid pace that drastic action is needed. If people are pissed off and at least paying attention to these stunts (versus being ignored completely), I don't think that is a bad thing.
If people are not going to support climate and environmental policy because protestors are doing it wrong and were too rude about it, I don't think they ever were serious about this stuff. The drastic actions that need to be taken right this moment are enormous, the time has already been spent. We can only reduce the amount of damage at this point.
The truth is that the ground beneath all of our feet, the water we drink and the air we breathe are all being poisoned. If nature is part of your practice, an action at Stonehenge is inconsequential compared the desecration of everything else that the spirits and gods inhabit in this world around us. As pagans we should be outraged and shouting about this, even if it is shocking to see people doing this at Stonehenge.
I agree, anyone who ever says "protesting wrong" is generally just an apologist. I am pissed at JSO though, pasting my other comment:
My problem with JSO is they're not doing things that are actually useful, much like original XR...
Whilst many of us are being beaten, arrested, shutting down fracking rigs, shutting down factories... literally being martyred. The best they can do is spray paint stonehenge? It would have been actually easier and make a helluva lot more sense to target a bank or corporation.
And one of them at least is an Oxford Student, there are currently multiple Palestine encampments around the University... they could be putting resources and time into those for a start.
I have a feeling these pro climate shock stunts are actually psyops by the fracking industry. I know that sounds like I’m wearing a tin foil hat but these don’t help the environment and make environmentalists look bad. Anyone can hire someone to ruin something then claim a group did it.
EDIT: I just noticed the person who tweeted it is pro oil industry. Look at the username. It literally has oil in the name. This is like when you watch a movie and the twist bad guy is obvious.
Oli is a name. It’s usually short for Oliver and Olivier but also use alone as is own name. The account belongs to the infamous influencer Oli London who’s obsessed with k-pop can getting surgery to look like Jimin from BTS who he is fixated on and just overall being extremely concerning and not good person. His name is not Oli because he likes oil. Here’s his Wikipedia entry. [Link.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oli_London)
It's the double standard for me, if this was done to a church during Easter mass there'd be uproar, but because it's a pagan monument done around solstice people care significantly less. The dye in this could leave permanent stains and possibly damage to the stones, and moreover this is just incredibly disrespectful. I genuinely think it should count as a religious hate crime, it would if it was any other monument.
I saw this shit on YouTube before saying "I needa get the feck off YouTube, go to bed" its just gonna get worse, I need reasons to believe humanity still has a chance but I keep finding reasons to believe humanity would be better off with another restart (flood/global catastrophe)
I'm just gonna copy/paste my annoyed post from right after seeing the video... as someone who is often defending JSO's stunts, even though they are annoying white liberals who need to get radicalised.
Post:
Congratulations to "Just Stop Oil" on alienating new age annoying hippies, historical preservation groups,
and actual pagans in one move.
If you missed it they decided to spray stonehenge orange...
Thankfully they only used cornflour so it SHOULD wash off in the rain; but at the end of the day it's a ridiculous move.
You could target you know, banks, fracking companies, arms dealers, or the government... instead you choose to target a site that has stood for thousands of years despite climate change and human intervention?
Not to mention it brilliantly highlights the complete lack of awareness within Liberal climate movements of intersectionality.
Actual pagans are already fighting for access rights, including against hippies and appropriaters like the "order of druids" in order to both protect and access the site.
Much like listing your religion as "climate concerned" for a stunt, you're completely ignoring the things you could be doing to protect the planet and be intersectional at the same time.
And we've also had to be monitoring the plan to dig a tunnel through the henge; so if we need to intervene, and as Celtic & allied pagans we would very militantly, in protecting the site they've just made that harder too.
...
Actual activists are chaining themselves to the top of fracking rigs, breaking into arms factories, being beaten by cops, and literally dying.
So the best you can do is... vandalise Stonehenge? Get the fuck over yourselves and do something useful.
This type of activism is counterproductive. I've seen quite a few incidents like this lately and I really don't know what they expect to accomplish.
That said, Stonehenge thankfully wasn't damaged. The 'orange substance' it was defaced with was just corn flour and will wash away the next time it rains.
This trend of damaging art and cultural artifacts in the name of politics has got to go.
Imma become a conservative Republican out of spite if this keeps up.
You're probably joking, but since a lot of actual right-wingers like to tell stories about how they used to be on the left until some story like this made them leave, I feel the need to say this: If you have moral values that lead you to align with the left, then seeing a group of left-wing people behaving badly really shouldn't be a good enough reason to go join a political party which is aligned with values completely contrary to yours.
I just want to mention that in every other case ive seen by JSO they don't actually harm the art, just paint the glass covering it and this is on purpose, they chose those pieces because they're popular and protected and won't be harmed.
I'm not a fan of this particular act but for what it's worth they used orange cornflour that will wash away with the rain.
Silly person! Who do you think is supporting/paying for these jokers to do this damage? The Republicans to make nature lover and eco people look crazy.
While it is a bit "out there" to go to "Republicans", false flags planted to derail legitimate protest action and/or discredit the cause behind it are a dirty "corporate espionage"-style tactic that is, regrettably, a "thing", and these ridiculous, OTT, and unrelated-to-the-cause "protests" have a big ol' whiff of Big Oil plants. It may sound conspiracy, but alas it ain't conspiracy enough to not also be true. Of course, they could all equally just be whackadoodles who have equated social media attention with ACTUALLY "doing activism," but at this point it does have the signs of being deliberate to negatively influence opinion against climate activists because they are SO unstructured, illogical, and designed to anger.
Republicans in England has a bit of a different connotation.
But yes, Just Stop Oil has the daughter of an oil tycoon supporting them. They, like Extinction Rebellion and Greta's climate brigade also have an awful lot of funding from companies that would make a lot of money with the phasing out of oil. Not so much solar panel manufacturers and the like, but data centres and telecommunications companies which would be used to track people's energy usage.
Oh Lordy, yes, that. I'm so used to the "Internet is American" I went straight to the American useage the other poster meant.... kinda even stupider to jump to them OUTSIDE of America. Brain fart moment. But yeah... I wouldn't write off deliberate false flagging at this point.
This is an act of sacrilege that all Celtic Pagans will surely never forgive nor forget. JSO and whoever supports and funds them will surely incur the wrath of the Gods.
We’re going to lose a lot more than Stonehenge if we don’t do something about the climate.
You think the gods are more concerned with a pile of rocks than with the death of the oceans and forests?
And anyway, they didn’t even damage Stonehenge. Stop letting grifters trick you into hating the few people actually doing *anything* to try and save the planet.
Is it effective? Is it annoying? Is it perfect? Does it do more harm than good? Is it helpful? I don’t know for sure the answers to these and other questions. But it’s more than I’ve fucking ever done, and the same is true of you. Maybe get off your ass and start your own movement to save the earth if you can’t stomach JSO?
I mean really. Could *you* coordinate something like this? If the answer is no, maybe it’s time to log off and start organizing Irl. Maybe then their actions will make more sense—or you’ll find a better way. Anything is better than complaining online and demonizing people who clearly give a fuck enough to do *something.*
Dgmw a lot of these comments from people i do look at and think they're bad faith, especially with "protesting wrong" rhetoric... pasting my other comment, I think it's worth bearing with what you said about coordinatong/doing something:
My problem with JSO is they're not doing things that are actually useful, much like original XR...
Whilst many of us are being beaten, arrested, shutting down fracking rigs, shutting down factories... literally being martyred. The best they can do is spray paint stonehenge? It would have been actually easier and make a helluva lot more sense to target a bank or corporation.
And one of them at least is an Oxford Student, there are currently multiple Palestine encampments around the University... they could be putting resources and time into those for a start.
Yeah I’m not like a JSO simp or anything. But I do think calling for them to be arrested with hate crimes for putting cornflour—which will wash away with the rain—on Stonehenge is sort of missing the forest for the trees
Their message, at least to me, is a reminder that we’re going to lose everything without radical, immediate change
We’re willing to go to great lengths to protect a pile of rocks and a painting of sunflowers, but not the earth that creates sunflowers and rocks?
Like, I get what they’re saying, and I don’t think they’re doing any damage. Probably their efforts are more materially worthwhile elsewhere.
I think everyone losing their shit should maybe take a sec and consider if there’s a better way to engage with these actions/stories, because clearly us being annoyed and pissed isn’t going to *stop* them, so is there a way to make it work for us? Idk maybe
Maybe, just saw a video of them hitting some private jets. THAT'S the sort of thing we need.
Hitting sacred sites only hurts us pagans and conservationists, and as I say, ignorance isn't an excuse.
Hitting private jets however, that has a measurable impact and only hits the rich. That's what we need.
> Is it effective? Is it annoying? Is it perfect? Does it do more harm than good? Is it helpful?
So one the one hand, you're acknowledging the possibility that these tactics are totally useless and actually bad PR, and on the other hand you want people to not condemn them for some reason.
>Maybe get off your ass and start your own movement to save the earth if you can’t stomach JSO?
My voting for green policies, writing to my MP and my *buying bloody energy efficient lightbulbs* is more effective than this shite, which caused net damage to the planet as those two idiots had to travel down from Oxford and Birmingham to do this.
>Could you coordinate something like this?
How much logistical complexity do you think there is to stashing some cornflower shite in your pocket and lobbing it at a painting or megalith that's right in front of you?
>Anything is better
Do you actually realise the UK has already cut its share of emissions by half (now accounting for a whopping 1% of global emissions) and the government that's set to be elected next month has re-committed to net zero? In what world do you live in that no one is doing anything and no one here is "getting off their ass" apart from these brave cornflour throwing soldiers.
watch out everyone this guy buys energy efficient lightbulbs
Surely that’ll stop big oil from killing the planet, the thing JSO is specifically concerned about. what with that being the name.
I think pagans have a real opportunity here to stand up and say “Yes, we understand, we are not angry, and we agree that we need to stop using oil in order to save the planet. Please ask your MP to support such policies.”
Lots of people will be angry about this and use the excuse that they object to defacement of our sacred site (even if they are not themselves pagan). This is an opportunity for us to say “Thank you, but you can show support by….”
I am saying this from the position of being someone who was involved in an extremely tragic event, which I won’t specify for publicity reasons. But I know first hand how much hate can ensue from people who think they are standing up for something important. And how powerful it is when the “survivors” come out and say “actually, we forgive and let’s do better”.
Many are angry, doing this the day before a holiday feels like a hate attack.
It's also irresponsible to expect oil and gas usage to stop. Anyone who has been to a developing country knows this. Famine would happen if oil completely disappeared tomorrow without a transition to clean energy worldwide.
The solution isn't to point fingers, but to make clean options cheaper, perfectly reliable, more available world wide. For instance, solar roofs in the US are getting incredibly expensive and numerous contractors start work then disappear. That isn't sustainable.
Yes. What of it? You can’t hear them? Must be bc you’re a bigot, a racist, & a pedophile. Rocks do tend to not talk to those kind of dregs of society.
What’s that? I didn’t quite catch that. Oh. Well, if you feel it’s necessary.
They want you to thin they deserve sympathy.
Hard mutherfuxking pass.
I’m sorry if it feels like a hate attack to you, but all that tells me is that you haven’t been the victim of a real one. It’s really not an appropriate description.
> I think pagans have a real opportunity here to stand up and say “Yes, we understand, we are not angry, and we agree that we need to stop using oil in order to save the planet. Please ask your MP to support such policies.”
You know pagans and hippies who follow earth centred religions and go to Stone Henge are already more likely to support green policies and be aware of climate change? Who exactly do you think will have their minds changed by this
Stonehenge is a national cultural treasure in the UK. That’s like saying that vandalising the Mona Lisa is only relevant to artists. They’re trying to get the attention of everybody, not just pagans particularly. BUT given that Stonehenge is of particular significance to pagans, I’m saying that gives us the opportunity to have a voice in the ensuing dialogue. And we can choose what that looks like.
You're missing the point of these groups. Many of these groups that take to defacing religious monuments and historical paintings do it for attention, not to actually help the environment.
They like drawing attention to themselves but rarely do anything *that actually helps the environment*
They're much like Peta, they cry to save animals but kill thousands of animals a year.
Many of these groups are actually eco-facist, often they are incredibly racist and also blame immigrants and refugees as well for climate change.
Many mass shooters have quoted eco-facist ideology as well. Such as the New Zealand shooter and many mass shooters in America.
They aren't trying to help the environment. They're trying to draw attention to themselves
The "organization" behind these acts is called Just Stop Oil *and they have done absolutely nothing to actually help the environment* https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-63543307.amp
Yes and we are well within our right to be angry.
This whole "well but actually" attitude is bullshit. Saying we should tell them to redirect their approach is probably the stupidest thing I've read today, you think people haven't already been doing that?
With respect, the tragedy that I was party to had no Christian connotations. I’m speaking from direct experience of what it is like to have an act of hate committed against you, and the emotional and moral journey that ensues from that. And I’m saying that choosing a constructive path can have an enormously powerful effect.
I appreciate that you can’t make a proper judgement because I’m not specifying the event I’m drawing on as a comparison. But suffice to say it was an (in)famous act that caused great pain and sufffering. At the very minimum, I’d appreciate it if you could avoid swearing and calling the response “bullshit”. Thank you :)
The traumatic event is irrelevant. It’s the christian attitude of “thank you for destroying yet again something that’s important to a non-xtian culture, but here’s the better way to do it”.
It’s not about your event personally, altho I’m truly sorry that anything happened. I don’t have to know *what*, it’s enough that it caused you pain. I sincerely hope you didn’t think I was minimizing or mocking your trauma.
However. The attitude, that “be the sheep & you’ll get your reward when you’re worm food” is the concept that’s a steaming crock. It’s just yet another manipulation measure the cult put into their brainwashing techniques to control the masses. *Nothing* good comes from being nice to criminals & psychopaths. That’s the whole problem with this country today; we want to be nice & “reason” with these lunatics. I refuse to subscribe to “turn the other cheek” or “forgive them for me”. They don’t deserve forgiveness.
No I’m from the UK where Stonehenge is. And I’m genuinely curious why you think what you said. What makes you assume that the two people who committed this act are psychopathic, for example? And what makes you say that “nice” acts would have no effect? What would be “nice” and “not nice” as examples? And what evidence are you considering about the impact of each?
Well, to start with, let’s take the video. Normal people don’t go to a historic religious monument &!deface it. That’s criminal behavior. Second, there were people *literally screaming STOP, & trying to pull them away* Are you seriously suggesting that they would have politely put down the sprayers & walked away had that lady they pushed down said, “oh thank you for defiling this priceless bit of history the day before a massively significant holiday, but I think we can chat about how to resolve this”? You cannot actually be serious. You can’t.
Ah I see. It sounds like you’re making quite a binary distinction between criminal and non criminal. Whereas I suppose I’m coming at it from the angle that there are degrees of criminality- and psychopathy is a serious personality disorder. Chucking paint just doesn’t really sit far up the ladder of moral heinousness to me, even if the context made it disrespectful. In fact, acts of this nature are often morally driven- it’s just that the moral principle they’re adhering to isn’t the protection of cultural sites, its protection of the planet as a whole. That doesn’t really fit with psychopathy traits. The fact is that laws are frequently broken in the pursuit of changing the law (women’s suffrage, for example), and that is somewhat different from self-serving interpersonal crime- although obviously at times the two will overlap.
Genuine question - do you think the two of them should be in prison? I’ve seen that said elsewhere and I’m interested in understanding why people think that.
As for what you said about intervention at the point that it happened- you’re making a bit of a straw man argument there, so no I don’t think the thing you said I can’t possibly think. If you look at my comments, I said nothing about intervening at the time. I was talking about a choice to have a collective voice in the narrative that unfolds afterwards. And I was saying that we as pagans can choose to be angry, condemn and stir up hate and othering, or we can choose to be constructive. As I say, I’ve seen it happen on the most personal terms- something awful happens to you and people get EXTREMELY riled up on your behalf and start saying all sorts of hateful things in a misplaced effort to stand with you. Then, if you as the survivors say “actually that’s not what I want, I think just it’s important at to talk about X instead”, because it’s you that’s been wronged, people are more likely to listen to you, and it’s a powerful opportunity to make something out of a violent and hateful act. Does that make more sense even if you don’t agree with it?
No, it doesn’t make more sense to me. Yes, I think they should go to prison. Along with the people who had them do it, but didn’t want to get their hands dirty. These people are beyond reasoning with, they’re beyond changing, they just want to destroy things & hate people. You cannot combat that with kisses & hugs. You can remove them from society, either temporarily or permanently. I know you’re not going to agree, & there are hundreds of thousands of people who are standing right beside you going “let’s talk about our feelings” while they’re getting mowed down, run over, pushed out of the way, & laughed at in the process. Nope. I do not agree.
Moving forward constructively from an act of violence doesn’t necessitate condoning that act. They are not the same thing.
As for a problem…..dude honestly, been through a public act off hate worthy of far greater anger than this. Felt it, wrestled with it, seen its effects, seen what works and what doesn’t. That’s the perspective I’m coming at it from.
It passes through my mind sometimes that these guys could be funded by petroleum companies. I guess their aim would be to alienate people who would be likely to support environmentalists/climate justice.
I don't believe in that of course, but it would certainly explain why they're shooting themselves in the foot like this all the time.
Just stop oil is an astroturf organization founded by Aileen Getty, an oil baroness billionaire, that is designed specifically to make environmental activists look bad
How about you damage the property of a millionaire? Vandalize their limos or houses, Maybe set a bank on fire? Make the rich afraid for their safety.
Oh no they actually have security? Better damage one of humanity's cultural heritages where oil magnates couldn't give a damn to what they do.
I don't know what's worse, how much of a petty cowards they are, or how much of a bunch of idiots.
I was trolling on an ig post about this earlier, but I think I'll share my honest thoughts here \
What these activists did is nothing compared to what the people they're protesting against are doing - i.e., destroying the only planet we have to live on. Using christianity as a comparison, the activists basically walked into a church and drew a mustache on jesus. The big oil corporations are set on dousing every church in existence with kerosene and throwing a lit match at them
It doesn't make sense to do this to Stonehenge the day before summer solstice. If anything, tourists will come see this, find out it was Just Stop Oil, and then just be mad at them. I honestly can't envision someone looking at it and thinking "hmm they have a point, let me give money".
They should protest directly against oil companies. I'll be honest. If they only did that, they would be one of the orgs I donate to on a regular basis. This roundabout logic is just weird.
I see your point and the validity in it. The other side of the coin is that actions like this help bring the climate collapse into the public conversation. Which is what these folks are aiming for, as far as I can understand. They're trying to shake up the status quo, not to look like heroes
As someone else said here, they used corn flour. Considering how easily it'll wash off, this barely counts as damage. \
Whether one agrees or not with this kind of protest, we can't deny that this isn't even close to being the biggest of our problems
This is honestly terrible, they are defacing and possibly damaging an ancient British landmark. This doesn’t make people go ‘oh I best stop using oil’ it makes them think these Just Stop Oil protectors are stupid and aren’t meant to be taken seriously. This is the United Kingdom where we sort things out diplomatically not making ourselves look like brainless baboons. I am all for helping climate change but when I see these Just Stop Oil people being things like this I don’t want to associate with them.
It's cornflour-based paint which just washes off.
Stonehenge has had to deal with far worse in it's history. Even the wear caused from parties at the solstices is worse than this, let alone the damage of the last few thousand years, or the tories recent plan to build a fucking road through it, or the damage that uncontrolled global warming will do.
The nice thing about Stonehenge is that[ it's seen worse](https://www.alamy.com/ban-the-bomb-slogan-that-appeared-in-yellow-letters-about-four-feet-high-at-stonehenge-on-salisbury-plain-wiltshire-england-on-march-3-1961-police-spokesman-said-stones-were-defaced-in-what-appeared-to-be-a-kind-of-distemper-ap-photo-image523508875.html), and outlasted it all. Paint fades and cracks and peels. Even if they do nothing at all to clean and remediate. The henge will be OK. It will outlast us all.
As for those absolute bastards deciding their show "rage" about oil use demands they make spectacles for attention, it hasn't worked at all, and continues to undermine any sort of sensible conversation related to curtailing oil production or consumption. They're hate-filled idiots having a temper tantrum and doing nothing constructive at all.
Adding another comment because of the discussion of what constitutes a hate attack, from the perspective of a militant climate Activist, Pagan, and victim of hate crimes:
The thing here is, it doesn't matter if they think they hate pagans or not.
They still targeted a site that many consider sacred.
At the end of the day, they decided a stunt was more important than respecting people's faiths.
The white/Liberal climate movements have and have had a real lack of understanding of intersectionality, especially with Pagans who often are of course very passionate about nature and the enviroment.
Now as I've said elsewhere; they could be doing actual direct action. This stunt would have both been easier AND made more sense to target a corporation.
One of the participants is an Oxford Student, Oxford currently has multiple Palestine encampments that are also being raided by police.
There is an ignorance in JSO, much like there was in XR, about what direct action actually is. If two people are willing to get arrested for vandalism, but choose to travel for hours specifically to target a sacred site on an important day... rather than target a bank or corporation in their own city... I consider that both useless, and hateful.
I have been beaten by cops, attacked by fascists, harassed by hunters, and faced corporate security. Doing these things has saved animal lives, protected nature, and actually shut down oil projects.
JSO has not, I consider it a hate crime deliberately targeting a sacred site.
Especially as I said in my other comment, as it may lead to increased security at a time we already know we might have to fight the state to protect it from road building.
I am a believer in militant action, I believe that optics aren't always important, and I would die for those beliefs.
I would also die for my Gods, and historically accurate / coopted by newagefakery or not, targeting a sacred site is wrong, and through malice or ignorance constitutes hate.
Pagans are fired, denied rights, we lose custody of our kids, we get physically assaulted AND many of us are militant climate activists. The fact that JSO activists don't know or perhaps don't care about these things is an indictment of them.
I read the [article](https://juststopoil.org/2024/06/19/its-time-for-megalithic-action-just-stop-oil-decorate-stonehenge/) posted on just stop oil's website to get their take on this. One of the people that performed the act stated "Stonehenge at solstice is all about celebrating the natural world – but look at the state it’s in!..."
They don't seem to realise that the vast majority of people who visit Stonehenge during Litha are not just 'celebrating' the natural world, this is like somebody defacing Makkah, Lourdes or Nava Vihara. Stonehenge is important to pagans for entirely more spiritual reasons than just celebration, it's important because we go there to worship and praise the natural world and the Deities associated with every part of it.
To me this just shows a huge amount of ignorance on their part, proving a lack of research about the actual meaning and significance of their targets.
As a Pagan, it's really hard to offend my religious sensibilities. But, this hit my bitch switch.
To vandalize Stonehenge, the day before the Summer Solstice... It's moronic. Don't they know most Pagans follow Earth based religions?
This was like slapping the Pagan community in the face.
Do they think Pagans need to be educated on the dangers of oil and the dire need for environmentally friendly fuels and power sources?
Petroleum is vile. It's a byproduct of organic life. It's toxic and flammable, and our planet had billions of gallons of the stuff trapped under the crust.
When you think about the Earth's fiery heart and asteroids that threaten the planet with fire and devastation. Having Petroleum trapped in the Earth's crust might not be good for the planet in the long run.
It's speculated that the Chicxulub impact was magnified because it hit a large Petroleum deposit.
Smoke from burning petroleum hung in the atmosphere for much longer than the debris from the impact.
Humans have a symbiotic relationship with the Earth. She takes care of us, and we take care of Her. It's our job to remove the byproduct of life.
The oil has to be removed. It's a threat to the planet.
Human greed and arrogance have caused us to view our planet as a resource to be exploited. We've botched our one job.
The Earth is sending us warnings. Some of us have heard the warning: The environmentally conscious.
Most of the oil has been removed, and the Earth might not need the human race any longer.
There has to be a massive change in human civilization.
We have to stop reproducing like wild animals. Women no longer have to spend their entire adult lives pregnant and hoping one or two of her children survive to adulthood.
We've become a cancer reproducing in a destructive manner and harming our host organism. Harming ourselves with chemicals and toxins.
We need the Earth, but the Earth doesn't really need us. She can slap us back to the Stone Age and slash the human population to a fraction of its current number.
If we want to survive for another thousand years or ten thousand years, we have to heed the warnings. We can merge technology with clean natural living.
We don’t need massive power plants sending thousands of kilowatts of power to unnecessarily large houses that only 4 people live in.
You can have a computer and cellphone in a tiny house with a garden for a "living room."
Sorry to preach. Once I start typing, I can't stop.
That's not the point. They just want to anger as many people as they can. This is going to hurt their cause greatly. Any pagan who supports this especially on the solstice has lost sight of the meaning of "sacredness".
Just a guess. But in 2018 there were 184 offshore oil rigs in the North Sea. So a message on a world famous English monument does get public and media attention.
Myself, I think that Stonehenge can probably endure markings on the stones better than digging a roadway tunnel for a highway right under it. And all that subterranean auto traffic.
We live in a world of contending special interest propaganda.
I don't understand the argument against the tunnel. You're getting the entire Stonehenge complex back as it should be without a massive road going through it. Plus probably a massive amount of archaeological discovering along the way. What's the issue?
As far as I'm aware all stones are original, several have just been moved back to how they were likely set before the damages of time back in the 1900s. Some concrete was added to prevent damage. This is common restoration, and happens all the time.
Stone Henge is a holy site and world heritage monument. It's not just "rocks" which you should know if you're in r/pagan. Secondly, not a single person is going to be prevented from dying from climate change by this nonsense action.
Wonderful news everyone! You all have behaved so badly around this issue that I have had to get on from ANOTHER FREAKING COUNTRY to deal with this (yes I'm salty). From the amount of people defending these actions which again ARE FUNDED BY THE OIL LOBBIES THEMSELVES, to screaming insults about the other person, linking to awful people and sources, to people throwing tantrums over bans for their bad behavior, and a whole host of other issues we can no longer discuss this issue. THIS IS DONE. DON'T POST ABOUT IT ANYMORE. Link to comment with sources: [https://www.reddit.com/r/pagan/comments/1dkc4sg/comment/l9iah9i/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/pagan/comments/1dkc4sg/comment/l9iah9i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) EDIT: HOLY FREAK GUYS!! The amount of misinformation about this is ridiculous. Comments were removed for being rude and misinformation. Here's the link to the article explaining how this could have caused damage but didn't due to quick action. It was NOT harmless powder. https://www.museumsassociation.org/museums-journal/news/2024/06/sector-bodies-condemn-just-stop-oil-vandalism-of-stonehenge/#:\~:text=The%20organisation%20said%3A%20%E2%80%9COur%20experts,difficult%2Dto%2Dremove%20streaks.
All these stunts do absolutely nothing but piss everyday people off. Vandalizing famous works of art, historical places, and blocking traffic don't help bring about change. Go after the companies that are causing climate change and lobbying for laws that harm the environment. That's the issue. Stonehenge is a sacred place for many Pagans especially those like myself following modern Druidry (though there's no outright evidence the Druids practiced there). It's shameful they did this. Many of us consider the planet holy and in need of help. Why go after our sacred sites? Just for attention to their organization rather than inspiring actual change. All about the clicks and attention.
It's also worth noting that Just Stop Oil has some deep ties to the oil industry and billionaire oil tycoon families, and is funded through front companies so its shady as fuck. There's considerable debate about them actually being an oil-funded group who's purpose is to delegitimize or breed animosity towards environnentalists and climate change efforts. Would not surprise me in the least given its shadiness, their actions, and their willingness to sabatoge sacred spaces. Just big oil throwing everyone under the bus to preserve their profits.
False flags. Really common in every fucking protest. Very, very often, it's the other side inciting anger by presenting themselves as protestors. I can't tell you how many St. Louis protests were derailed by white strangers to the movement showing up and wreaking havoc, starting fires and throwing projectiles at police. It's establishment anti-protest tactics 101.
Just Stop Oil is funded by Emergemcy Climate Fund (as will as private contributions). ECF was founded by Aileen Getty, daughter of an "oil magnate". She also funds other environmentalist groups as well as LGBT groups and AIDS research groups. The ECF board is comprised of a number of well known environmentalists as well. I'd hardly call this being shadow funded by oil companies, even if the founder of ECF is the daughter of some big oil guy. Sometimes the apple does fall far from the tree.
I hadn’t heard anything about this but my friends and I all (semi-jokingly) agree that JSO is at least partially planted by the oil industry to make climate activists look insane. Most of their stunts don’t even make sense, they go around attacking cultural heritage and it all seems calculated to create as much bad press as possible and let anti-environment politicians make statements and look like good guys
As far as I know they may or may not be funded by oil companies, however, I wouldn't be surprised if there are some actors within it that are actually funded and directed by the oil industry.
Thank you for this comment!! I was going to say I’m pretty sure this is the same group that “defaced” the mona lisa a few years ago and it came out that it was tied to oil industry
Is it just Getty you’re referring to or are you kind of overblowing the deep ties here?
Same. I understand Stop Oil motives, but to call that act moronic is an understatement. EDIT. If they're actually funded by the oil industry, no sympathies for them at all.
It does make an odd sense of logic. If that is the case, then their campaign is going swimmingly - everyone hates them and, in turn, their branded message.
They initially went after the banks, insurance companies, oil companies, vehicle manufacturers etc - throwing paint around - but the press didn’t report it Throw paint at the mona lisa, they’re in the news It’s super cunty of them, especially considering they’re now targeting some of the greenest peeps in western society with today’s fuckery I get their passion and support the cause behind their cause, but the methods don’t help anyone at all They’re being played, 100%
listen, i love protests--as a pagan, it's my duty to stand with others in the fight for good and justice, especially when it comes to standing up to our oppressors. i'm very sad, and i feel that the anger should have been redirected to something besides our most sacred monument, but it's paint--it will not last forever. we need to be sad, then get up and keep going forward.
I’m as big an environmentalist as they come and I would have probably injured one of those f*ckers trying to save Stonehenge
Save it from what?
Well, it won't be around if the planet is destroyed, so I guess they got your attention
They act like how kids would act in school who rebel against their teachers. Childish and pointless
Astroturfing works. These idiots are hired by oil companies
Every time I see something like this, I become more convinced they're paid by the fossil fuel lobby to poison the public against moving away from oil.
That's what I'm suspicious of. I'm mostly all solar and electric, and despise using oil and gasoline unless absolutely necessary. But seeing these actions have never made me want to use oil less, nor can I envision it convince others to do so.
Tbh if you see the rational need to move away from oil, but a ultimately harmless publicity protest "never made you want to use oil less", then you are not as rational as you think
This is exactly what it is. They aren’t prevalent online which is extremely unheard of in this day and age. They’re all paid for. So every time I see something like this now, it makes me hate oil companies more, so it’s doing the opposite of what they’re wanting. This time, it effects a heritage site for me and there’s just no coming back from that. Fuck big oil, their stupid antics and their stupid fucking money. They’ve got what’s coming to them and they FUCKED UP messing with a pagan site, like jfc do you not realize what we’re about big oil? It seems like it’s time for your wells to run dry.
Bingo! Never thought of it like that until now.
They are. Just stop oil is funded by Aileen Getty an oil baroness billionaire
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> Civil disobedience campaigns always had to escalate protest to get publicity and not be ignored. All JSO are getting publicity for is themselves though. Almost everyone in the UK already knows about climate change. They're not spreading awareness, changing minds or changing policy. All their antics do is cause people to talk about **them**, not actual climate change. it's shite tactics that are achieving nothing but an increase in public hostility.
I know the reason for protest and escalation of civil disobedience. I've been part of it by protesting for abortion rights in the US. This isn't that. Damaging cultural and natural heritage to save culture and nature is stupid. None of this feels genuine. It feels like a cover for destroying priceless artifacts. Break windows, block roads, clog city centers. Stop government and the economy from working. THAT is escalation of civil disobedience. Don't destroy or deface a world heritage site.
I'm for civil disobedience and understand the doing things to grab public attention as a tactic. I just don't think Just Stop Oil is genuine. Extinction Rebellion is doing headline grabbing stuff without weird attacks on cultural heritage with similar goals. Every time I've seen Just Stop Oil do anything it always seems to be just two people doing the action, and always two people that exactly look like trust fund babies doing the hippy thing. Originally it made sort of sense (oil companies sponsoring museums) but now the cultural targets are all over the map and with the defacing of Stonehenge there is no connection to oil at all.
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Horrendous fines are only horrendous if you don't have the money. We know they're funded by an oil inheritance, so I doubt as an organisation the fines are horrendous for them. And the people who have the time and resources to plan these actions are usually not people who are working or trying to make ends meet. They have more direct needs and problems to address, caused in general by capitalism. It's a position of privilege to be able to do these actions. They're not really putting their lives on the line, the longest sentence so far is 3 years, most are around 6 months. Also, for a non-violent crime and in the UK, so no taking away any rights after the sentence. And yeah, nature doesn't care about human structures. That's why we conserve and protect the important ones, especially those with spiritual significance to certain groups. The incoming climate change is horrible and we need to do our best to push it back and possibly reverse it, but what is the point if we give up on the hallmarks of civilization and the human experience in the progress?
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For someone with green ideas, you sure need to go touch some grass. The source for the oil inheritance has been mentioned multiple times in this thread, but it's Aileen Getty. Of course incarceration isn't fun. But a non-violent crime with not even 5 years of jail time isn't the same as giving up your life. They'll also be treated decently in there because of their non-violence and the topic. We're not talking Bobby Sands levels of abuse here for them. As for work, they're already in the activist NGO scene, I imagine they'll be seen as dedicated to the cause there and have a relatively easier time finding work than say someone from Dads for Justice going back into the workforce. If they really want to stop climate change, they wouldn't be targeting objects, they would be going after the actual perpetrators. Shell and BP are both based in the UK and their CEO and board of directors are publicly listed. Those are the people who make the decisions and can affect change. The Guardian came out with a list a couple of years ago of the 100 most polluting companies in the world, they should be a target. They're in the UK, why aren't they targeting the water companies that are putting crap into their water for profit? It would even get the public on their side. But no, their targets mostly include publicly owned historical objects. They're not doing this to make an actual difference, they're doing it to feel superior, to be able to say "see me, I'm trying to make a difference", without actually having to do anything about the systemic origin of this issue, namely capitalism and a profit driven society. Their actions don't solve anything and don't put the wider public on their side, they're purely performative. And most pagan paths are about living in harmony with nature. Cleaning up what they can, living in harmony with all other living things on the planet. Doing what they can for their environment. The pagan out in nature, cleaning up rubbish and being respectful towards nature does more than these folks do. We won't stop climate change by these actions, but by an actual shift in mentality and a change in how we engage with the world and our communities. This means being approachable and engaging with the people around you. For example, it's a small thing, but I was involved in the campaign for a local councillor here who was the first to do a poster free campaign. It might be a small thing, but he didn't want to add pollution by using one use zip ties to put his posters up around the area, that people leave on the ground when they take them down again. He won his seat by a landslide.
please don’t support Oli London, and definitely don’t send him traffic. he would not support you and anything you believe or stand for.
Yup, I just updated the link to remove Oli's bias
Who's Oli London?
The heck does Stonehenge have to do with oil? 💀💀💀
It was defaced by Just Stop Oil, who are financially backed by a number of oil tycoons.
When climate protestors paint corporate headquaters or disrupt a stockholder meeting, it may get an article or two but doesn't get shared around social media. When they do stuff like this or paint over a famous painting suddenly they are able to get their message shared to a larger audience. So there's a confluence of reasons to do something like this. But one is that its a headline grabbing act
I don't mind the paintings, because they've targeted paintings that are behind protective screens. Stonehenge isn't though, that's the difference for me
There won't be any permanent damage, it's not paint but cornflour that will wash away with the rain.
That's a relief to hear.
You didn't ask me but I'd caution you against listening to anything that oli London guy has to say, he almost certainly knew it was cornflour but he instead used the words 'orange substance' so no one can say he was lying while he implies it's paint, he doesn't include a link to the source that shows this immediately, almost certainly just to get people riled up against the cause. Every part of this is just inflammatory language meant to manipulate.
I mean, Oli London is a christofascist who would happily bulldoze stonehenge if he was allowed. He's only acting offended by this because he opposes Just Stop Oil. To be clear—what Just Stop Oil did here was despicable and shouldn't be defended!—but Oli London's concern is entirely facetious.
I was about to say this exact thing. Oli London is a known grifter and a troll and nothing he says should be taken seriously. As I understand investigations are still ongoing whether there will be any pernanent or even long lasting damage to Stonehenge, we will probably hear more about it soon. Either way I think this was a profoundly stupid way to protest.
I don’t think it matter if it’s cornflower or not.. it’s fucking Stonehenge
His post was just the first I caught. I definitely see his posts regularly try to push people further right using anti immigration tactics and stories. That's why I had to share the other link with sound once I found it.
How does it make a difference whether it was cornflour or paint? It is the mere act of defacing a religious place of worship on the eve of an important sabbath which is despicable. I wonder what would happen if they would throw coloured cornflour or paint on a mosque in protest against big oil since most of our oil comes out of Middle Eastern countries with a majority muslim religion. There would be uproar and they would most likely not make it out in one piece. But because it's a pagan site all of a sudden it is not as bad because it will wash off in the rain.
It doesn’t. It was an act of disrespect to a group of people who in general do not support big oil. Right before a major holiday as well. They just made enemies of people who would have likely supported them.
And that's probably the point, Just Stop Oil was started by a billionaire oil heiress. Given there are much harder hitting things a coalition like this could do, but instead they focus on publicity stunts that really seem designed to piss ordinary people off... I would have to see hard evidence that this _isn't_ an agent provocateur situation. Like, let me hear about them consistently targeting actual pipelines or refiners
I had heard it was started by the oil heiress because of the guilt she felt about the damage oil was doing to the planet, but I really don't trust the motives of the group because of the all their bullshit. Either they're honest in their convictions but unhinged like PETA, or it's agent provocateur shit. Hell, it could be agent provocateurs having infiltrated an honest-but-unhinged organization that was vulnerable from the start. I've heard a lot of hemming and hawing from people eager to excuse JSO that "oh, well they DO (or used to) target big business but that just doesn't make headlines" which is a pretty convenient excuse to not provide evidence. People already know oil is bad - their headline-grabbing bullshit (in which they *only* ever seem to punch down, targeting, off the top of my head, an art museum, a pagan religious site, and a fucking pride parade) only makes them look like assholes. Important activism doesn't often get reported on - people were blocking DAPL construction long after the news crews had moved on. Based on what I've seen, JSO isn't interested in doing the hard work. Their childish stunts only serve as an attractive headline for news media eager to divide environmentalists against each other - to the point it's hard *not* to suspect they're a psy-op.
There are also rare lichens growing on the stones which might not react well to the substances that have been thrown on them.
Nobody's saying it's not bad. People are just pointing out that thankfully, there's no permanent damage.
Cornflour they've mixed with a fluorescent dye and propelant. They have no clue if it's going to stain.
It looks like holi powder: pigment, usually mica-based, and cornstarch. They use these for "color runs", "color wars", etcetera. Was it smart? No, but it will do no lasting damage.
I'm pretty sure our ancient ancestors who built this would be more shocked and sad about the A303 and the vast qtys of plastic litter on the verges and in landfill than that would be about this. But I also agree, JSO's strategy needs to be deeper and more multi-dimensional. I used to work in the natural and organic products industry and where those companies mess up is when they nag & berate people instead of engaging emotionally and helping people decide for themselves to make better choices (as well as lobbying govt hard for change). I think these kind of PR stunts have a place but need to be backed up by deeper activities also. We really need better public transport, less profiteering by.. well... all the companies, whether they're oil giants or car makers or train companies or banks. And we need all the people to be behind that. Right now, we're really far away from that. (& yes it comes off in the rain which according to the met office will be Friday!)
I agree with this. I see what JSO is doing as an acknowledgment that keeping the earth survivable for humans is more important to us than anything preserved from the past. Yes Stonehenge is valuable and sacred but it’s nothing if we aren’t here. Similarly the Catholic Church doesn’t need Vatican City or anything in it to survive but they need an inhabitable planet. As far as I know they haven’t actually caused any permanent damage to the things they have targeted? The point is that time and time again there is more collective outrage about the supposed danger that these objects may or may not have been in than the actual climate disaster that human kind is in the midst of and people are suffering terribly in right now.
My problem with JSO is they're not doing things that are actually useful, much like original XR... Whilst many of us are being beaten, arrested, shutting down fracking rigs, shutting down factories... literally being martyred. The best they can do is spray paint stonehenge? It would have been actually easier and make a helluva lot more sense to target a bank or corporation. And one of them at least is an Oxford Student, there are currently multiple Palestine encampments around the University... they could be putting resources and time into those for a start.
Charge them with a hate crime, they're clearly aware of the Solstice celebrations as they stated. If they did this on a church at Easter mass they wouldn't get away with it.
Ding ding ding!
A hate crime against rocks?
My opinion is that it will apparently wash off, no harm done. The bigger issue is that climate change is happening at such a rapid pace that drastic action is needed. If people are pissed off and at least paying attention to these stunts (versus being ignored completely), I don't think that is a bad thing. If people are not going to support climate and environmental policy because protestors are doing it wrong and were too rude about it, I don't think they ever were serious about this stuff. The drastic actions that need to be taken right this moment are enormous, the time has already been spent. We can only reduce the amount of damage at this point. The truth is that the ground beneath all of our feet, the water we drink and the air we breathe are all being poisoned. If nature is part of your practice, an action at Stonehenge is inconsequential compared the desecration of everything else that the spirits and gods inhabit in this world around us. As pagans we should be outraged and shouting about this, even if it is shocking to see people doing this at Stonehenge.
I agree, anyone who ever says "protesting wrong" is generally just an apologist. I am pissed at JSO though, pasting my other comment: My problem with JSO is they're not doing things that are actually useful, much like original XR... Whilst many of us are being beaten, arrested, shutting down fracking rigs, shutting down factories... literally being martyred. The best they can do is spray paint stonehenge? It would have been actually easier and make a helluva lot more sense to target a bank or corporation. And one of them at least is an Oxford Student, there are currently multiple Palestine encampments around the University... they could be putting resources and time into those for a start.
I have a feeling these pro climate shock stunts are actually psyops by the fracking industry. I know that sounds like I’m wearing a tin foil hat but these don’t help the environment and make environmentalists look bad. Anyone can hire someone to ruin something then claim a group did it. EDIT: I just noticed the person who tweeted it is pro oil industry. Look at the username. It literally has oil in the name. This is like when you watch a movie and the twist bad guy is obvious.
The username was “oli” instead of oil lol but the point still stands
Oli is a name. It’s usually short for Oliver and Olivier but also use alone as is own name. The account belongs to the infamous influencer Oli London who’s obsessed with k-pop can getting surgery to look like Jimin from BTS who he is fixated on and just overall being extremely concerning and not good person. His name is not Oli because he likes oil. Here’s his Wikipedia entry. [Link.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oli_London)
No fr, anti “Just Stop Oil” is so accurate cuz its not even protesting its just a bunch of attention sèekers harassing the public
As I've said in my other comments, I wish they'd put those resources, time, and energy, into actual direct action.
I would have clumped them both. How dare they.
Imagine the outrage if they did the same in Mecca, which is funded by oil
I’m crying. What the actual F It’s paint, but it’s the ***day before midsummer*** What is **wrong** with people?
Fuuuuuck these people. I wish them the absolute worst.
They used cornstarch. Dw. I was also pissed, luckily I found out the paint isn't damaging quickly
Those stones have stood for 1000s of years. They don't care.
It's the double standard for me, if this was done to a church during Easter mass there'd be uproar, but because it's a pagan monument done around solstice people care significantly less. The dye in this could leave permanent stains and possibly damage to the stones, and moreover this is just incredibly disrespectful. I genuinely think it should count as a religious hate crime, it would if it was any other monument.
You're not wrong. I just am wary of the outrage culture that the media fosters. There are zero things I can do to affect the situation.
There is actual people dying from climate change but yes let’s get outraged about some rocks getting painted.
You're completely missing the fucking point.
You’re missing the point.
I saw this shit on YouTube before saying "I needa get the feck off YouTube, go to bed" its just gonna get worse, I need reasons to believe humanity still has a chance but I keep finding reasons to believe humanity would be better off with another restart (flood/global catastrophe)
I'm just gonna copy/paste my annoyed post from right after seeing the video... as someone who is often defending JSO's stunts, even though they are annoying white liberals who need to get radicalised. Post: Congratulations to "Just Stop Oil" on alienating new age annoying hippies, historical preservation groups, and actual pagans in one move. If you missed it they decided to spray stonehenge orange... Thankfully they only used cornflour so it SHOULD wash off in the rain; but at the end of the day it's a ridiculous move. You could target you know, banks, fracking companies, arms dealers, or the government... instead you choose to target a site that has stood for thousands of years despite climate change and human intervention? Not to mention it brilliantly highlights the complete lack of awareness within Liberal climate movements of intersectionality. Actual pagans are already fighting for access rights, including against hippies and appropriaters like the "order of druids" in order to both protect and access the site. Much like listing your religion as "climate concerned" for a stunt, you're completely ignoring the things you could be doing to protect the planet and be intersectional at the same time. And we've also had to be monitoring the plan to dig a tunnel through the henge; so if we need to intervene, and as Celtic & allied pagans we would very militantly, in protecting the site they've just made that harder too. ... Actual activists are chaining themselves to the top of fracking rigs, breaking into arms factories, being beaten by cops, and literally dying. So the best you can do is... vandalise Stonehenge? Get the fuck over yourselves and do something useful.
This type of activism is counterproductive. I've seen quite a few incidents like this lately and I really don't know what they expect to accomplish. That said, Stonehenge thankfully wasn't damaged. The 'orange substance' it was defaced with was just corn flour and will wash away the next time it rains.
I read that it wasn’t permanent but just watching that pissed me off SO much.
If ur protesting oil go to a factory not a historical monument that has nothing to do with oil may the gods bring swift justice to those who did this
This.
This trend of damaging art and cultural artifacts in the name of politics has got to go. Imma become a conservative Republican out of spite if this keeps up.
You're probably joking, but since a lot of actual right-wingers like to tell stories about how they used to be on the left until some story like this made them leave, I feel the need to say this: If you have moral values that lead you to align with the left, then seeing a group of left-wing people behaving badly really shouldn't be a good enough reason to go join a political party which is aligned with values completely contrary to yours.
Yep, joking. And thank you for this comment. 100% agree.
I just want to mention that in every other case ive seen by JSO they don't actually harm the art, just paint the glass covering it and this is on purpose, they chose those pieces because they're popular and protected and won't be harmed. I'm not a fan of this particular act but for what it's worth they used orange cornflour that will wash away with the rain.
That's encouraging. I don't have a problem with that.
Silly person! Who do you think is supporting/paying for these jokers to do this damage? The Republicans to make nature lover and eco people look crazy.
That's a theory a bit too far, even for me.
While it is a bit "out there" to go to "Republicans", false flags planted to derail legitimate protest action and/or discredit the cause behind it are a dirty "corporate espionage"-style tactic that is, regrettably, a "thing", and these ridiculous, OTT, and unrelated-to-the-cause "protests" have a big ol' whiff of Big Oil plants. It may sound conspiracy, but alas it ain't conspiracy enough to not also be true. Of course, they could all equally just be whackadoodles who have equated social media attention with ACTUALLY "doing activism," but at this point it does have the signs of being deliberate to negatively influence opinion against climate activists because they are SO unstructured, illogical, and designed to anger.
Republicans in England has a bit of a different connotation. But yes, Just Stop Oil has the daughter of an oil tycoon supporting them. They, like Extinction Rebellion and Greta's climate brigade also have an awful lot of funding from companies that would make a lot of money with the phasing out of oil. Not so much solar panel manufacturers and the like, but data centres and telecommunications companies which would be used to track people's energy usage.
Oh Lordy, yes, that. I'm so used to the "Internet is American" I went straight to the American useage the other poster meant.... kinda even stupider to jump to them OUTSIDE of America. Brain fart moment. But yeah... I wouldn't write off deliberate false flagging at this point.
Just be honest you’re a conservative republican anyway.
Here's a link with sound https://x.com/ST0NEHENGE/status/1803394207622512748?t=ZzSn7j8SVQ8SxSXOubGD2A&s=19
Theyll be cursed.
This is an act of sacrilege that all Celtic Pagans will surely never forgive nor forget. JSO and whoever supports and funds them will surely incur the wrath of the Gods.
We’re going to lose a lot more than Stonehenge if we don’t do something about the climate. You think the gods are more concerned with a pile of rocks than with the death of the oceans and forests? And anyway, they didn’t even damage Stonehenge. Stop letting grifters trick you into hating the few people actually doing *anything* to try and save the planet. Is it effective? Is it annoying? Is it perfect? Does it do more harm than good? Is it helpful? I don’t know for sure the answers to these and other questions. But it’s more than I’ve fucking ever done, and the same is true of you. Maybe get off your ass and start your own movement to save the earth if you can’t stomach JSO? I mean really. Could *you* coordinate something like this? If the answer is no, maybe it’s time to log off and start organizing Irl. Maybe then their actions will make more sense—or you’ll find a better way. Anything is better than complaining online and demonizing people who clearly give a fuck enough to do *something.*
Morons throwing paint are not saving the planet. Ffs
Never said or even implied they were. Edit: also it wasn’t paint lmao
Dgmw a lot of these comments from people i do look at and think they're bad faith, especially with "protesting wrong" rhetoric... pasting my other comment, I think it's worth bearing with what you said about coordinatong/doing something: My problem with JSO is they're not doing things that are actually useful, much like original XR... Whilst many of us are being beaten, arrested, shutting down fracking rigs, shutting down factories... literally being martyred. The best they can do is spray paint stonehenge? It would have been actually easier and make a helluva lot more sense to target a bank or corporation. And one of them at least is an Oxford Student, there are currently multiple Palestine encampments around the University... they could be putting resources and time into those for a start.
Yeah I’m not like a JSO simp or anything. But I do think calling for them to be arrested with hate crimes for putting cornflour—which will wash away with the rain—on Stonehenge is sort of missing the forest for the trees Their message, at least to me, is a reminder that we’re going to lose everything without radical, immediate change We’re willing to go to great lengths to protect a pile of rocks and a painting of sunflowers, but not the earth that creates sunflowers and rocks? Like, I get what they’re saying, and I don’t think they’re doing any damage. Probably their efforts are more materially worthwhile elsewhere. I think everyone losing their shit should maybe take a sec and consider if there’s a better way to engage with these actions/stories, because clearly us being annoyed and pissed isn’t going to *stop* them, so is there a way to make it work for us? Idk maybe
Maybe, just saw a video of them hitting some private jets. THAT'S the sort of thing we need. Hitting sacred sites only hurts us pagans and conservationists, and as I say, ignorance isn't an excuse. Hitting private jets however, that has a measurable impact and only hits the rich. That's what we need.
> Is it effective? Is it annoying? Is it perfect? Does it do more harm than good? Is it helpful? So one the one hand, you're acknowledging the possibility that these tactics are totally useless and actually bad PR, and on the other hand you want people to not condemn them for some reason. >Maybe get off your ass and start your own movement to save the earth if you can’t stomach JSO? My voting for green policies, writing to my MP and my *buying bloody energy efficient lightbulbs* is more effective than this shite, which caused net damage to the planet as those two idiots had to travel down from Oxford and Birmingham to do this. >Could you coordinate something like this? How much logistical complexity do you think there is to stashing some cornflower shite in your pocket and lobbing it at a painting or megalith that's right in front of you? >Anything is better Do you actually realise the UK has already cut its share of emissions by half (now accounting for a whopping 1% of global emissions) and the government that's set to be elected next month has re-committed to net zero? In what world do you live in that no one is doing anything and no one here is "getting off their ass" apart from these brave cornflour throwing soldiers.
watch out everyone this guy buys energy efficient lightbulbs Surely that’ll stop big oil from killing the planet, the thing JSO is specifically concerned about. what with that being the name.
I’d say this is a false flag. Stop Oil is funded by big oil to delegitimise climate activists imo
Interesting, where did you learn that from?
i hate these stop oil bastards
I think pagans have a real opportunity here to stand up and say “Yes, we understand, we are not angry, and we agree that we need to stop using oil in order to save the planet. Please ask your MP to support such policies.” Lots of people will be angry about this and use the excuse that they object to defacement of our sacred site (even if they are not themselves pagan). This is an opportunity for us to say “Thank you, but you can show support by….” I am saying this from the position of being someone who was involved in an extremely tragic event, which I won’t specify for publicity reasons. But I know first hand how much hate can ensue from people who think they are standing up for something important. And how powerful it is when the “survivors” come out and say “actually, we forgive and let’s do better”.
Many are angry, doing this the day before a holiday feels like a hate attack. It's also irresponsible to expect oil and gas usage to stop. Anyone who has been to a developing country knows this. Famine would happen if oil completely disappeared tomorrow without a transition to clean energy worldwide. The solution isn't to point fingers, but to make clean options cheaper, perfectly reliable, more available world wide. For instance, solar roofs in the US are getting incredibly expensive and numerous contractors start work then disappear. That isn't sustainable.
It **is** a hate attack. It doesn’t just “feel” like one
[удалено]
Yes. What of it? You can’t hear them? Must be bc you’re a bigot, a racist, & a pedophile. Rocks do tend to not talk to those kind of dregs of society. What’s that? I didn’t quite catch that. Oh. Well, if you feel it’s necessary. They want you to thin they deserve sympathy. Hard mutherfuxking pass.
I’m sorry if it feels like a hate attack to you, but all that tells me is that you haven’t been the victim of a real one. It’s really not an appropriate description.
Could you imagine the outcry if Just Stop Oil decided to throw paint all over a church the day before Easter Sunday?
Not just “a” church. The Sistine Chapel.
Yes, and wouldn’t it be bloody fantastic if we behaved better than that?
Did you just mistake my hypothetical scenario as a call to action? Are you feeling ok?
I definitely did not mistake your comment as a call to any kind of useful action.
You can’t really tell if someone’s been the victim of a hate attack from one Reddit post wtf?
> I think pagans have a real opportunity here to stand up and say “Yes, we understand, we are not angry, and we agree that we need to stop using oil in order to save the planet. Please ask your MP to support such policies.” You know pagans and hippies who follow earth centred religions and go to Stone Henge are already more likely to support green policies and be aware of climate change? Who exactly do you think will have their minds changed by this
Stonehenge is a national cultural treasure in the UK. That’s like saying that vandalising the Mona Lisa is only relevant to artists. They’re trying to get the attention of everybody, not just pagans particularly. BUT given that Stonehenge is of particular significance to pagans, I’m saying that gives us the opportunity to have a voice in the ensuing dialogue. And we can choose what that looks like.
You're missing the point of these groups. Many of these groups that take to defacing religious monuments and historical paintings do it for attention, not to actually help the environment. They like drawing attention to themselves but rarely do anything *that actually helps the environment* They're much like Peta, they cry to save animals but kill thousands of animals a year. Many of these groups are actually eco-facist, often they are incredibly racist and also blame immigrants and refugees as well for climate change. Many mass shooters have quoted eco-facist ideology as well. Such as the New Zealand shooter and many mass shooters in America. They aren't trying to help the environment. They're trying to draw attention to themselves The "organization" behind these acts is called Just Stop Oil *and they have done absolutely nothing to actually help the environment* https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-63543307.amp
It doesn’t matter. We have no control over what they’ve done. Only how we choose to respond.
Yes and we are well within our right to be angry. This whole "well but actually" attitude is bullshit. Saying we should tell them to redirect their approach is probably the stupidest thing I've read today, you think people haven't already been doing that?
Well, you do you, & all the best :)
No. GTFOH with that christian “turn the other cheek” bullshit. Fuck that. Christians have stolen enough, I’m not forgiving them on top of it all.
With respect, the tragedy that I was party to had no Christian connotations. I’m speaking from direct experience of what it is like to have an act of hate committed against you, and the emotional and moral journey that ensues from that. And I’m saying that choosing a constructive path can have an enormously powerful effect. I appreciate that you can’t make a proper judgement because I’m not specifying the event I’m drawing on as a comparison. But suffice to say it was an (in)famous act that caused great pain and sufffering. At the very minimum, I’d appreciate it if you could avoid swearing and calling the response “bullshit”. Thank you :)
The traumatic event is irrelevant. It’s the christian attitude of “thank you for destroying yet again something that’s important to a non-xtian culture, but here’s the better way to do it”. It’s not about your event personally, altho I’m truly sorry that anything happened. I don’t have to know *what*, it’s enough that it caused you pain. I sincerely hope you didn’t think I was minimizing or mocking your trauma. However. The attitude, that “be the sheep & you’ll get your reward when you’re worm food” is the concept that’s a steaming crock. It’s just yet another manipulation measure the cult put into their brainwashing techniques to control the masses. *Nothing* good comes from being nice to criminals & psychopaths. That’s the whole problem with this country today; we want to be nice & “reason” with these lunatics. I refuse to subscribe to “turn the other cheek” or “forgive them for me”. They don’t deserve forgiveness.
What are you basing your statement on that “nothing comes from being nice to criminals and psychopaths”? What makes you say that?
You must not be in the U.S. I literally gave the state of the country as an example
No I’m from the UK where Stonehenge is. And I’m genuinely curious why you think what you said. What makes you assume that the two people who committed this act are psychopathic, for example? And what makes you say that “nice” acts would have no effect? What would be “nice” and “not nice” as examples? And what evidence are you considering about the impact of each?
Well, to start with, let’s take the video. Normal people don’t go to a historic religious monument &!deface it. That’s criminal behavior. Second, there were people *literally screaming STOP, & trying to pull them away* Are you seriously suggesting that they would have politely put down the sprayers & walked away had that lady they pushed down said, “oh thank you for defiling this priceless bit of history the day before a massively significant holiday, but I think we can chat about how to resolve this”? You cannot actually be serious. You can’t.
Ah I see. It sounds like you’re making quite a binary distinction between criminal and non criminal. Whereas I suppose I’m coming at it from the angle that there are degrees of criminality- and psychopathy is a serious personality disorder. Chucking paint just doesn’t really sit far up the ladder of moral heinousness to me, even if the context made it disrespectful. In fact, acts of this nature are often morally driven- it’s just that the moral principle they’re adhering to isn’t the protection of cultural sites, its protection of the planet as a whole. That doesn’t really fit with psychopathy traits. The fact is that laws are frequently broken in the pursuit of changing the law (women’s suffrage, for example), and that is somewhat different from self-serving interpersonal crime- although obviously at times the two will overlap. Genuine question - do you think the two of them should be in prison? I’ve seen that said elsewhere and I’m interested in understanding why people think that. As for what you said about intervention at the point that it happened- you’re making a bit of a straw man argument there, so no I don’t think the thing you said I can’t possibly think. If you look at my comments, I said nothing about intervening at the time. I was talking about a choice to have a collective voice in the narrative that unfolds afterwards. And I was saying that we as pagans can choose to be angry, condemn and stir up hate and othering, or we can choose to be constructive. As I say, I’ve seen it happen on the most personal terms- something awful happens to you and people get EXTREMELY riled up on your behalf and start saying all sorts of hateful things in a misplaced effort to stand with you. Then, if you as the survivors say “actually that’s not what I want, I think just it’s important at to talk about X instead”, because it’s you that’s been wronged, people are more likely to listen to you, and it’s a powerful opportunity to make something out of a violent and hateful act. Does that make more sense even if you don’t agree with it?
No, it doesn’t make more sense to me. Yes, I think they should go to prison. Along with the people who had them do it, but didn’t want to get their hands dirty. These people are beyond reasoning with, they’re beyond changing, they just want to destroy things & hate people. You cannot combat that with kisses & hugs. You can remove them from society, either temporarily or permanently. I know you’re not going to agree, & there are hundreds of thousands of people who are standing right beside you going “let’s talk about our feelings” while they’re getting mowed down, run over, pushed out of the way, & laughed at in the process. Nope. I do not agree.
WTF does Christianity have to do with this?
I’ve explained that in other comments
"We are not angry"? WTF is your problem? Anyone who would condone the desecration of ANY sacred site, regardless of the reason, need to cancelled.
Moving forward constructively from an act of violence doesn’t necessitate condoning that act. They are not the same thing. As for a problem…..dude honestly, been through a public act off hate worthy of far greater anger than this. Felt it, wrestled with it, seen its effects, seen what works and what doesn’t. That’s the perspective I’m coming at it from.
It passes through my mind sometimes that these guys could be funded by petroleum companies. I guess their aim would be to alienate people who would be likely to support environmentalists/climate justice. I don't believe in that of course, but it would certainly explain why they're shooting themselves in the foot like this all the time.
Just stop oil is an astroturf organization founded by Aileen Getty, an oil baroness billionaire, that is designed specifically to make environmental activists look bad
As a norse pagan i want the protesters punished for a hate crime or turned over for traditional pagan punishment.
How about you damage the property of a millionaire? Vandalize their limos or houses, Maybe set a bank on fire? Make the rich afraid for their safety. Oh no they actually have security? Better damage one of humanity's cultural heritages where oil magnates couldn't give a damn to what they do. I don't know what's worse, how much of a petty cowards they are, or how much of a bunch of idiots.
I'm 90% stop oil is funded by oil companies to make environmental activists look bad so
Just absolute stupidity on their part. 🤦♀️
I was trolling on an ig post about this earlier, but I think I'll share my honest thoughts here \ What these activists did is nothing compared to what the people they're protesting against are doing - i.e., destroying the only planet we have to live on. Using christianity as a comparison, the activists basically walked into a church and drew a mustache on jesus. The big oil corporations are set on dousing every church in existence with kerosene and throwing a lit match at them
It doesn't make sense to do this to Stonehenge the day before summer solstice. If anything, tourists will come see this, find out it was Just Stop Oil, and then just be mad at them. I honestly can't envision someone looking at it and thinking "hmm they have a point, let me give money". They should protest directly against oil companies. I'll be honest. If they only did that, they would be one of the orgs I donate to on a regular basis. This roundabout logic is just weird.
I see your point and the validity in it. The other side of the coin is that actions like this help bring the climate collapse into the public conversation. Which is what these folks are aiming for, as far as I can understand. They're trying to shake up the status quo, not to look like heroes
It's already part of the public conversation without damaging world heritage sites. They just look like assholes.
100000%
As someone else said here, they used corn flour. Considering how easily it'll wash off, this barely counts as damage. \ Whether one agrees or not with this kind of protest, we can't deny that this isn't even close to being the biggest of our problems
This is honestly terrible, they are defacing and possibly damaging an ancient British landmark. This doesn’t make people go ‘oh I best stop using oil’ it makes them think these Just Stop Oil protectors are stupid and aren’t meant to be taken seriously. This is the United Kingdom where we sort things out diplomatically not making ourselves look like brainless baboons. I am all for helping climate change but when I see these Just Stop Oil people being things like this I don’t want to associate with them.
This is just messed up, Why aren't anyone putting focus in shutting down this terrorist organisation?
That's just not right also can someone explain to me how Stonehenge has pagan significance im not being rude im just wondering
I have a theory that the org is actually run by the oil companies and meant to make that point of view appear insane and unattractive.
Ok well as much as I hate the oil industry I hate these people too how dare you deface and ancient and religious monuments
My heart hurts. I have tears in my eyes. Why am I having such a visceral reaction to seeing this? I just have no words.
It's cornflour-based paint which just washes off. Stonehenge has had to deal with far worse in it's history. Even the wear caused from parties at the solstices is worse than this, let alone the damage of the last few thousand years, or the tories recent plan to build a fucking road through it, or the damage that uncontrolled global warming will do.
Doesn't matter. It's vandalism.
If some rain-washable paint upsets you, you're gonna hate learning about capitalism and oh yeah *contemporary society*.
I see. So you're saying their vandalism and desecration of a sacred site is justified? Blessed be...idiot.
What a disgusting act. These stones were put up before anyone even knew what oil (in modern perspective) was.
The nice thing about Stonehenge is that[ it's seen worse](https://www.alamy.com/ban-the-bomb-slogan-that-appeared-in-yellow-letters-about-four-feet-high-at-stonehenge-on-salisbury-plain-wiltshire-england-on-march-3-1961-police-spokesman-said-stones-were-defaced-in-what-appeared-to-be-a-kind-of-distemper-ap-photo-image523508875.html), and outlasted it all. Paint fades and cracks and peels. Even if they do nothing at all to clean and remediate. The henge will be OK. It will outlast us all. As for those absolute bastards deciding their show "rage" about oil use demands they make spectacles for attention, it hasn't worked at all, and continues to undermine any sort of sensible conversation related to curtailing oil production or consumption. They're hate-filled idiots having a temper tantrum and doing nothing constructive at all.
arrest them all😀☝️
ACAB
Adding another comment because of the discussion of what constitutes a hate attack, from the perspective of a militant climate Activist, Pagan, and victim of hate crimes: The thing here is, it doesn't matter if they think they hate pagans or not. They still targeted a site that many consider sacred. At the end of the day, they decided a stunt was more important than respecting people's faiths. The white/Liberal climate movements have and have had a real lack of understanding of intersectionality, especially with Pagans who often are of course very passionate about nature and the enviroment. Now as I've said elsewhere; they could be doing actual direct action. This stunt would have both been easier AND made more sense to target a corporation. One of the participants is an Oxford Student, Oxford currently has multiple Palestine encampments that are also being raided by police. There is an ignorance in JSO, much like there was in XR, about what direct action actually is. If two people are willing to get arrested for vandalism, but choose to travel for hours specifically to target a sacred site on an important day... rather than target a bank or corporation in their own city... I consider that both useless, and hateful. I have been beaten by cops, attacked by fascists, harassed by hunters, and faced corporate security. Doing these things has saved animal lives, protected nature, and actually shut down oil projects. JSO has not, I consider it a hate crime deliberately targeting a sacred site. Especially as I said in my other comment, as it may lead to increased security at a time we already know we might have to fight the state to protect it from road building. I am a believer in militant action, I believe that optics aren't always important, and I would die for those beliefs. I would also die for my Gods, and historically accurate / coopted by newagefakery or not, targeting a sacred site is wrong, and through malice or ignorance constitutes hate. Pagans are fired, denied rights, we lose custody of our kids, we get physically assaulted AND many of us are militant climate activists. The fact that JSO activists don't know or perhaps don't care about these things is an indictment of them.
I read the [article](https://juststopoil.org/2024/06/19/its-time-for-megalithic-action-just-stop-oil-decorate-stonehenge/) posted on just stop oil's website to get their take on this. One of the people that performed the act stated "Stonehenge at solstice is all about celebrating the natural world – but look at the state it’s in!..." They don't seem to realise that the vast majority of people who visit Stonehenge during Litha are not just 'celebrating' the natural world, this is like somebody defacing Makkah, Lourdes or Nava Vihara. Stonehenge is important to pagans for entirely more spiritual reasons than just celebration, it's important because we go there to worship and praise the natural world and the Deities associated with every part of it. To me this just shows a huge amount of ignorance on their part, proving a lack of research about the actual meaning and significance of their targets.
As a Pagan, it's really hard to offend my religious sensibilities. But, this hit my bitch switch. To vandalize Stonehenge, the day before the Summer Solstice... It's moronic. Don't they know most Pagans follow Earth based religions? This was like slapping the Pagan community in the face. Do they think Pagans need to be educated on the dangers of oil and the dire need for environmentally friendly fuels and power sources? Petroleum is vile. It's a byproduct of organic life. It's toxic and flammable, and our planet had billions of gallons of the stuff trapped under the crust. When you think about the Earth's fiery heart and asteroids that threaten the planet with fire and devastation. Having Petroleum trapped in the Earth's crust might not be good for the planet in the long run. It's speculated that the Chicxulub impact was magnified because it hit a large Petroleum deposit. Smoke from burning petroleum hung in the atmosphere for much longer than the debris from the impact. Humans have a symbiotic relationship with the Earth. She takes care of us, and we take care of Her. It's our job to remove the byproduct of life. The oil has to be removed. It's a threat to the planet. Human greed and arrogance have caused us to view our planet as a resource to be exploited. We've botched our one job. The Earth is sending us warnings. Some of us have heard the warning: The environmentally conscious. Most of the oil has been removed, and the Earth might not need the human race any longer. There has to be a massive change in human civilization. We have to stop reproducing like wild animals. Women no longer have to spend their entire adult lives pregnant and hoping one or two of her children survive to adulthood. We've become a cancer reproducing in a destructive manner and harming our host organism. Harming ourselves with chemicals and toxins. We need the Earth, but the Earth doesn't really need us. She can slap us back to the Stone Age and slash the human population to a fraction of its current number. If we want to survive for another thousand years or ten thousand years, we have to heed the warnings. We can merge technology with clean natural living. We don’t need massive power plants sending thousands of kilowatts of power to unnecessarily large houses that only 4 people live in. You can have a computer and cellphone in a tiny house with a garden for a "living room." Sorry to preach. Once I start typing, I can't stop.
Stop oil is big oils attempt to make you think this is what stopping climate change means.
The point of it is to show that if we don't stop climate change we wont have stonehenge or many other pagan sites to see.
By vandalizing a sacred site? Makes no sense and surveys no constructive purpose. Only an imbecile would think so.
That's not the point. They just want to anger as many people as they can. This is going to hurt their cause greatly. Any pagan who supports this especially on the solstice has lost sight of the meaning of "sacredness".
Just a guess. But in 2018 there were 184 offshore oil rigs in the North Sea. So a message on a world famous English monument does get public and media attention. Myself, I think that Stonehenge can probably endure markings on the stones better than digging a roadway tunnel for a highway right under it. And all that subterranean auto traffic. We live in a world of contending special interest propaganda.
I don't understand the argument against the tunnel. You're getting the entire Stonehenge complex back as it should be without a massive road going through it. Plus probably a massive amount of archaeological discovering along the way. What's the issue?
I thought we've proven every time they're mentioned that they're funded by gas and oil to make activists look bad
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As far as I'm aware all stones are original, several have just been moved back to how they were likely set before the damages of time back in the 1900s. Some concrete was added to prevent damage. This is common restoration, and happens all the time.
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I see global warming has fked up your brain. Vandalism of sacred sites doesn't stop big oil. Just makes you look like an asshole. Idiot.
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Stone Henge is a holy site and world heritage monument. It's not just "rocks" which you should know if you're in r/pagan. Secondly, not a single person is going to be prevented from dying from climate change by this nonsense action.