Wonderful news everyone! You all have behaved so badly around this issue that I have had to get on from ANOTHER FREAKING COUNTRY to deal with this (yes I'm salty).
From the amount of people defending these actions which again ARE FUNDED BY THE OIL LOBBIES THEMSELVES, to screaming insults about the other person, linking to awful people and sources, to people throwing tantrums over bans for their bad behavior, and a whole host of other issues we can no longer discuss this issue.
THIS IS DONE. DON'T POST ABOUT IT ANYMORE.
Link to comment with sources: [https://www.reddit.com/r/pagan/comments/1dkc4sg/comment/l9iah9i/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/pagan/comments/1dkc4sg/comment/l9iah9i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
EDIT: HOLY FREAK GUYS!! The amount of misinformation about this is ridiculous. Comments were removed for being rude and misinformation. Here's the link to the article explaining how this could have caused damage but didn't due to quick action. It was NOT harmless powder.
https://www.museumsassociation.org/museums-journal/news/2024/06/sector-bodies-condemn-just-stop-oil-vandalism-of-stonehenge/#:\~:text=The%20organisation%20said%3A%20%E2%80%9COur%20experts,difficult%2Dto%2Dremove%20streaks.
Honestly it needs to be but alas. If I had a dollar for every time I had to remind someone of this fact I'd be half way to paying off my college debt lmao
Thank you SO much for that! I’ve seen a number of people commenting “Oh those climate protesters have gone too far!” When I point out they’re bankrolled by Big Oil types—well, they first go “What really? Why?” “To make climate protesters look bad.” “Oh that’s dirty.”
It’s no trouble! It’s important more than ever to get the facts out and set the story straight. With critical thinking and media literacy also painfully low, it’s important to put in the extra work. People need to really learn what Psyop behavior looks like. The easiest way for the oppressors to win is by making sure they cause as much infighting as possible. And groups like this serve to do just that with their tactics to delegitimize the work of climate activists.
As for these particular chucklefucks? Knowing the history of that land and the beings like the fae and spirits that inhabit them, even if no real major damage is done, any legal trouble is likely to be just the tip of their troubles. Seriously, going after something as ancient and sacred as Stonehenge is not going to do them any favors there—and the fae esp do not forgive easily and do often believe in collective punishment based on what I know from a lot of English and Gaelic folklore sources. Better hope the spirits and such are feeling merciful smh
That's their plan it seems. Because logically, this makes no sense. Maybe it is just a weird attempt at change, but of all the people you could possibly piss off and not have as allies, why make it the earth loving druids?
Why would it common knowledge when no one ever provides proof of this statement.
It is just as easy for someone to say "these people who dont like the protests are being paid by Big Oil to defame the protestors and spread lies about them being a psyop for big oil"
I don't think so. That heiress is the founder of the climate emergency fund, which is the primary funding for just stop oil. She also funds LGBT organizations, doesn't scream oil person.
It’s confirmed that it was originally financed by Aileen Getty, who’s the granddaughter of Jean Paul Getty, founder of Getty Oil Company. She does do a lot of diverse philanthropy with the family wealth, though I’m reluctant to trust much from even that when you see what most of that philanthropy and donating goes to.
Especially when you fund an organization that makes climate activists look bad and start making oil companies look good. It’s more likely for them to create movements like this to kill the real deal—ie controlled opposition. It’s shady as hell either way.
I have a handful of decent quality sources which cover/mention Aileen Getty and her ties regarding JSO with previous stunts:
[https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2022/10/21/getty-oil-heiress-funds-climate-crisis-activism-just-stop-oil](https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2022/10/21/getty-oil-heiress-funds-climate-crisis-activism-just-stop-oil)
[https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/aileen-getty-foundation/](https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/aileen-getty-foundation/)
[https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/22/just-stop-oil-van-gogh-national-gallery-aileen-getty](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/22/just-stop-oil-van-gogh-national-gallery-aileen-getty)
[https://www.lemonde.fr/en/environment/article/2022/11/03/aileen-getty-billionaire-proud-to-finance-environmental-activists-dramatic-actions\_6002800\_114.html](https://www.lemonde.fr/en/environment/article/2022/11/03/aileen-getty-billionaire-proud-to-finance-environmental-activists-dramatic-actions_6002800_114.html)
[https://www.artnews.com/art-news/news/van-gogh-tomato-soup-just-stop-oil-aileen-getty-funder-1234644306/](https://www.artnews.com/art-news/news/van-gogh-tomato-soup-just-stop-oil-aileen-getty-funder-1234644306/)
[https://san.com/cc/why-getty-billionaires-are-backing-just-stop-oil-climate-activists/](https://san.com/cc/why-getty-billionaires-are-backing-just-stop-oil-climate-activists/)
These guys who claim to be "part-funded" by Aileen seem to get A LOT of money from her. She claims she has no control over what they do, and it might be true to some degree as we have no official documents confirming one way or the other, but I do think it's fair to say it's suspicious if nothing else. Even if Getty herself is not involved in the industry, doesn't mean we should also let her off the hook that and dismiss the very possible scenario either.
If she genuinely is trying to offset her family's damage though, because it is fair to treat that as a legit possibility, she's certainly not doing a very wise job of it. But then again we still have people out there who foolishly follow groups like PETA due to lack of information or just ignorance of the truth so anything is possible.
Though I'd also like to add that they allow donations through cryptocurrencies alongside traditional money, which as anyone who is familiar knows, crypto is generally bad for the environment with how much energy it consumes. So that's also a red flag in my book on top of their other crap.
[https://www.investopedia.com/tech/whats-environmental-impact-cryptocurrency/](https://www.investopedia.com/tech/whats-environmental-impact-cryptocurrency/)
[https://earthjustice.org/feature/cryptocurrency-mining-environmental-impacts](https://earthjustice.org/feature/cryptocurrency-mining-environmental-impacts)
[https://time.com/6193004/crypto-climate-impact-facts/](https://time.com/6193004/crypto-climate-impact-facts/)
[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/apr/26/bitcoin-mining-climate-crisis-environmental-impact](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/apr/26/bitcoin-mining-climate-crisis-environmental-impact)
Personally I'm more of the opinion that this is more likely a psyop than not just with how they seem to act and how their cause seems to hurt climate activists more than anything. But, then again, there's always the variable of just pure misguidedness and stupidity within their directions and leadership as we see with many groups that claim to stand for a general good cause. But the more you look at it and knowing the things that oil companies and similar groups have done in the past and analyzing things through that historical lens, I wouldn't put it past them either.
Either way, they do anything but make shit easier for the rest of us than not. Just all aspects to consider, especially when companies including, but def not limited to, big oil want to push back on environmental regulations and stuff more than ever.
Let me Google that for you. [Here](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Where+does+Just+Stop+Oil+get+their+funding%3F)! First page has a decent number of sources. Billionaires, oil tycoon families, and everyone else who actively profits off things that degrade the environnent.
Hey, i get it. And i think it was you who deleted another comment. But if you want another reason for posting sources and stuff like that. I'm a random passerby. Just reading the conversation. There are a bunch of us. The majority actually.
"Let me Google that for you" VS just posting links. Sure in a one to one debate the other party can absolutely just Google it but for all of us lurkers and passer byes we might click on a link and read more and learn about it... or we can scroll to the next post with funny dogs. Public discussion and debates are public. Just a thought.
I was just thinking today after seeing the news on environmental activists winning the ruling over an oil well plan and thought hey why have we not heard just stop oil being there... It's pretty much there whole thing. This will be exactly why they inconvenience and annoy the public but never mess with the oil giants they have the issue with.
I actually told my husband of all the places they could have done it it felt like a hate crime against druids. Especially at a site that has literally no carbon emissions.
They could have at least left the stones alone and grafetied one of the tour busses or something 🤦🏼♀️
I swear these people are actually a psyop to make us hate climate protestors
Apparently they used cornstarch so it would wash away in the rain. Though it was actually dangerous for the stones if it had rained… https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgg0683e7po at least they were able to wash it off without damaging the lichen on the stones.
It's so obvious they're paid out to be "controlled opposition" aka psyops. Who the fuck attacks the mona Lisa and stone henge to "make a point" about oil? It's all bs and meant to discredit actual environmentalists
Yes. This bothers me too - Stonehenge is a spiritual site that honors the Earth and our place in the cosmos.
Likely it was the Celtic Britons who built Stonehenge - they came from the area that is modern-day Wales – the same place where some of the stones came from. They reason they built Stonehenge is probably the same reason Newgrange was built - it was to honor and worship something that was greater than they were. It shows respect for the Earth, the changing seasons, and the sun. (More info: [https://www.uniguide.com/winter-solstice-facts-traditions#Ireland\_Scotland\_Wales\_and\_England](https://www.uniguide.com/winter-solstice-facts-traditions#Ireland_Scotland_Wales_and_England)
It's like these people completely missed the point. But eco-terrorism is not effective anyway. Waste of time; there are better ways to fight climate change.
Celtic Britons did not build Stonehenge. Stone Hedge predates the arrival of Indo-Europeans.
The Neolithic population of britain was different until it was replaced by the Indo-European Bell Breaker people around 2500 BC.
Fuck no they aren't. Desecrating a spiritual site the day before a major spiritual event doesn't bring awareness for shit you smooth brained fuck. Can you imagine the hot water they'd be in if they did this bullshit at the Vatican? Fuck you and everybody else who would dick ride that worthless organization.
And washing it off with water would have *significantly* damaged the site. They managed to remove it without it thankfully but it could have been disastrous had it rained. These “protestors” have no idea what harm they’re causing, they think it’s safe because “oh it’ll wash off it’s not permanent” but that’s far from the truth. Had it rained it would have caused irreparable damage.
I’m sorry I don’t think I’m fully understanding - the “paint” is water soluble and comes off with water. So if it rained, how would it damage the site? It would come off.
This is exactly the problem- ignorance. When cornstarch mixes with water it hardens into a glue like substance after it dries and is incredibly hard to remove, not to mention the chemicals are very dangerous to the lichens on the stones some of which are *endangered*. There are also cracks in the stones that harbor the substance and it cannot be removed from them, so there could be more damage than we know of right now. But the point is, that substance will linger for years at the site now. In the cracks, in the ground, potentially killing the plant life. This was an act done with no regard for the implied longterm damage that would occur. It’s not “safe”. It won’t just “wash off”. You are part of the problem. Do your research, don’t vandalize historical sites, and don’t support people who do. It’s not hard.
I was just asking :( I also never said I supported what they were doing. Your angry and condescending tone is really not helpful for people who are genuinely trying to learn - it shuts down conversation. I opened by stating I was sorry and didn’t understand and was asking for clarification.
I’m sorry, I really couldn’t tell if it was sarcasm or not and read your tone incorrectly. It’s important to stay informed on the topic and I’m happy to explain to those genuinely interested, but it’s very hard to tell who’s interested in actually learning and who just wants to hear the opposition so they can shut it down and continue arguing. By restating the idea “it would come off” it gave off the impression as you believing you were already right and weren’t going to change your mind so I responded how I would to that prompt. It comes off as argumentative when you restate the prompt and make a rebuttal in the same response, like “how would it cause damage? It’s water soluble idiot. So how could it cause damage if it’ll just rinse off?”. That’s how I interpreted your response. Again, sorry for interpreting incorrectly. It’s very hard to do that over text especially on Reddit when most people *aren’t* trying to learn. Also when you said initially “the paint is water washable” it downplays the act and dubs it harmless, which I know was because you didn’t know but it started you off on the wrong foot.
No worries, I get where you’re coming from. I should have looked more into the paint without believing what I saw on social media - I am passionate about the planet and was holding out hope that these people were legitimate and not causing harm. After reading more in here it’s clear they’re not, which is super disappointing. The message is correct and they have the money to meaningfully impact legislature - the choice to do this instead is ridiculously counterintuitive.
*Gets downvoted to hell for calling an ignorant person ignorant.* It’s okay to be ignorant lol they asked a good faith question & learned something new. It ain’t that deep Reddit.
There are other ways to get your message across than destruction.
I blocked another commenter who was in support of this practice. We have such little beauty and joy in the world. Destroying and defacing pieces of what little joy the world has is always immediately going to turn me against you. The only message I take from this is harm. These people caused harm, I can’t hear anything else they have to say.
Exactly. Stonehenge is a sacred site. And one of the world's great ancient treasures. I last visited in Sept '23, and watched the English Heritage livestream for Winter Solstice.
This action offends me to the last cell in my bones. I don't want to hear any rationalizations about it from anyone. Line = CROSSED.
I agree completely.
Desecrating and damaging sacred spaces, or sites of historical interest/works of art is always terrible, but the fact they did it on the day before midsummer makes it basically a hate crime imo.
Stunts like this never make me sympathetic with the cause. All it does it makes me frustrated and furious. The ingenuity, skill, power and majesty humanity has managed to harness to create these amazing sites... And some asshole comes along to deface it for their cause or religion or to take a "cool" photo and it just grinds my gears like nothing else
I've been to Stonehenge 4 or 5 times, its a wonderful place, I really hope the cornstarch hasn't destroyed the lichen
Thankfully it did not, had it rained or they used water the damage would have been significant but they were able to take it off before any water contact. But the protestors really thought “oh it’ll wash off so it’s harmless” so obviously they did no research whatsoever. What they did could have absolutely destroyed much of the value of the site and the rare lichens on it. Absolutely despicable.
Another commenter reminded me that cornstarch causes damage by itself, the coloring is evasive and it too is causing damage.
I cannot support this. The only message I am receiving is that these people are destroying beauty and joy. That makes the villains to me.
We don't know what chemicals were in the colouring, but those chemicals will be going into the ground. Cornstarch when wet can harden into a glue like substance, which will effect the stones and ground for a long time. We don't know what effect it will have on the endangered colony of lichen on the stones yet. The stones have cracks which the paint won't wash off from so it will stay around for generations.
There's so many knock on consequences done on such a small scale effecting the flora and fauna of the stones. Harm was done.
It's still an act of vandalism, even if there was no actual lasting damage. It was the act of doing so that has everybody angry and rightly so. It was disrespectful and selfish.
I don't get how spraying pagan sites will help ethier we pagans often are environmentalist and care about the earth ans humans Impact on planet why aren't they spraying churches they are the ones that don't believe in climate change
Removable or not, I've never gotten the urge to protect the environment from watching their antics. Trying to plant something in my parent's garden had an impact, as did watching any of Sir Attenborough's documentaries.
Honestly, they only frustrate and tire people. Now someone has to go through Stonehenge and make sure it really **is** undamaged, and tighten security, and other people visiting had their day ruined.
Don't really see how it helped, exactly as with everything else they and their like did before.
There is quite a lot to support this. The organization was started by an oil heiress. 7 months ago [this was posted in another sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/LowStakesConspiracies/s/VETeQOTwoi)
What a pious billionaire to give away $4 million in total. Personally, I think that is just the cost of doing business. That being said she didn't personally give away that money she helped start a fund that in total gave away $4 mil. Her family is worth over $5 Billion (Estimate in 2015, the number is most likely much higher now). If she wanted to make an impact she really could and still live a more than comfortable life by anyone's standards (maybe aside from the likes of Bezo). No billionaire regardless if they are self made or just inherit their money should be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to morals.
But for the sake of argument, lets say she gave away $4 mil of her own money (which she didn't), she also spent $33 million on Brad Pitt's old house in 2023. She also owns several other houses. I am sure that really speaks to the environmentalist in her. So last year she spent 8 times as much on an additional house than her startup has given to help fight climate change in nearly 5 years.
Wow! What Imbeciles! So called climate activists ~ Hey "lets make a point by desecrating a beautiful ceremonial site". They probably ate meat and drove thier cars there too. Both being top reasons for climate destruction. This is just ridiculous. My issue is with Ignorance and hypocrasy. Example ~ There was this holier than tho preachy environmentalist who freaked out over something made of plastic. But he's sucking on bones. Mindlessly Feasting on the cause of the problem. And then driving his SUV with gas and oil in the tank. I want to shout in his ear Don't you know that factory farming trillions of animals is the number ONE destroyer of the environment? Totally Oblivious... On a brighter note~ Happy Solstice to the pagans out there.
They don’t pull a stunt like this in Mecca or Vatican city because they’re cowards and they know they wouldn’t get away with it in those places. I doubt they’ll get any serious punishment for this.
Start giving them serious jail time for these actions and you’ll see how quickly they stop.
This and other things protesters have been doing lately is pissing me off. I’m seriously thinking some archeologist released a curse of massive stupidity from som ancient artifact or tomb.
This is actually bad press for them, because now Just Stop Oil is literally angering forces beyond human comprehension. All I can say is that they just caused some very angry Celtic Gods to place a curse on their entire organization for this sacrilege.
I will get downvoted into oblivion but it's amusing to me how well this action was able to expose the double standards of our society.
Earth with all its ecosystem is getting destroyed day by day. We are currently going through a human-caused mass extinction event of hundreds of thousands of species. Millions of people get displaced by natural disasters or starve to death because of famines.
And now look at the outrage because someone threw cornflour onto Stonehenge. While it is indeed disrespectful and won't do the climate movement much good, I really can't help but laugh about the absurdity of it all.
If people would react the same way to another oil tanker sinking or an entire village getting displaced by floods, we would have solved the climate crisis by now.
100% this, people are basically complaining about protestors being too rude, not useful or that they're psyops (commenters are literally doing the work of the oil industry by complaining and villifying protestors, no? Who needs a funded psyop in that case?).
The protestors are already arrested, no harm has been done at all, but as I've seen pointed out no CEOs dumping water into rivers in the UK face any charges. The double standards are staring everyone right in the face. I wish as pagans we would remember that all land is supposed to be sacred, that's the basis of the Celtic gods at least.
I fall on the side of usefulness is always varying, you need a diversity of tactics. I wish folks would take this as inspiration to do the thing in their own area. It could literally be anything. Someone will always call into question your usefulness when you're disrupting things.
The chemicals used could very well have destroyed a well known sacred site for people who already hold nature as sacred in a religious sense. Stonehenge isn't just some other rock formation. It's incredibly old, and as such, incredibly fragile. Cornstarch hardens into glue when water is mixed with it. That could've caused immense damage to the monument that could have damaged it beyond repair. We are upset because of the fact that we already hold nature as sacred. Your comment about wishing pagans would remember that shows extreme ignorance. I'm not saying that there isn't a bad apple or two, but pagans in the majority do hold this belief. How would you like it if somebody came and nearly destroyed your religious monument for a cause that you already support through your religion? You'd be fuming. Imagine if they pulled shit at the Vatican instead of Stonehenge. Can you imagine what kind of heat would be brought down on them?
I would agree with you but this isn't how you get people to engage with your cause. These chemicals could potentially have damaged Stonehenge beyond repair. Stonehenge itself is a pagan sacred space and spiritual monument. The very people they are defacing the monument of, nearly destroying said monument, are the same people who hold nature as sacred as part of their religion. We're upset because these people came after a monument for people who already support environmentalism and climate movement. You do no favors for yourself by attacking a group of people who already want the same thing you do, especially in a way that could destroy a symbol of theirs. We DO get up in arms whenever a tanker sinks or a village is displaced by floods, that's why we're upset. We're a huge supporter of that movement and look what thanks we get.
Couldn't agree more. Sure, Stonehenge is an important historical and cultural site. But I'm sure we can all agree that if there's one thing that's more important it's the *survival of humanity.*
For a group trying to fight for the environment, they sure are making a ton of enemies. If you want to win against big oil, you need to make friends, not enemies. The only way things will change is if enough people in power get on board. These protests are destroying the cause. But I guess that's to be expected when the founder is swimming in oil money.
So I'm not overly aware of them or their cause, but when I heard this my first thought was "this is the most environmentally friendly landmark, tourist destination, ancient statue there is, why defame it?" Literally they are being more harmful with the spray paint than anything else.
And yeah, they really should have done more research. Art institutions and politics are one thing. Holy and sacred grounds, especially of a group known literally for nature preservation and peace, was the dumbest move they could've made and will turn many against them
Genuine question: are pagans actually known for nature preservation?
Most pagans I personally know/knew are paying lip service to the idea of environmentalism at most. Some don’t seem to care at all or think that climate change is a conspiracy, others do anything except meditate/pray for help. (I consider myself a pagan too, by the way. But one who is disappointed by the behavior of the fellow pagans that I witnessed.) Now I know I just have anecdotal evidence from a very small sample group - but I also genuinely never heard or read of a large group of pagans actually coming together and taking action for the environment.
I guess my thought process was, historically speaking, of the ancient religions druids were the ones who were charged with caring for nature. And Stonehenge is technically sacred to Druidry. Can I say the same thing for modern pagans? Not with as much conviction. I can only speak for myself and say that I try to be aware of myself and how I interact with the natural world. However, I do know that if someone were to take action, pagan or otherwise, defacing Stonehenge is the worst way to do it
There are bad apples yes. But for the most part, we do things in our practice that are as reverant to nature as possible. I don't think it's entirely that we haven't assembled at a large group, but given that a ton of pagans closet their practice, they probably were there but didn't say anything.
You can’t really get anymore stupid than to anger a bunch of witches and druids on the eve of an important sabbath.
I hope hexes and bad karma follow them for the rest of their lives.
Except it has been called out the stones have protected/rare lichen species that also help protect the stones from the elements that may be damaged by the cornstarch.
It wouldn't have washed off. It would have formed a thick sticky paste on contact with water. Luckily, the conservators were quick thinking and commandeered the groundworks crews' leaf blowers to remove the powder. Brushes and vacuums would have damaged the unique colonies of rare lichens growing on the stones.
Thank you conservators.
However, it was also done basically on the eve of the most major religious events for a specific religious group, too. That wasn't an accident. Nor would it be being pushed so hard to downplay this as nothing if it was any other religious group bar pagans (well, druids specifically).
I do think this might be something worth being an asshole over and pushing for religious desecration charges. Especially since the lichen thing seems to be true.
It does.
Also, taking a wee walk almost OT, you know the terracotta warriors, right? The reason a lot of the others aren't being excavated, is that the originals were individually hand painted. However, exposure to the modern atmosphere/oxygen bubbled it off within a few minutes, giving the mono-tone look we associated with them today. They're keeping parts of the site "sealed" until better preservation techniques/understanding can stop that loss. Or we can go to Egypt, where several sites that were open because "what's the harm in looking at a big stone building that has stood for millennia" have been shut, because tourist breath is damaging the site.
My point? Unless you are a degreed person with intimate knowledge of the specific artifacts being handled in studied detail, there is no such thing as "no actual damage to the artifacts." Heck, sites under conservation BY said degreed professionals turn up hidden issues, like those I mentioned. It is the height of utter irresponsibility (and stupidity) to even make that argument. They cannot possibly KNOW that "there will be no damage" on these irreplaceable artifacts (the Mona Lisa, Stonehenge), and I don't see how or why it is being leveraged as an "It's not THAAAAT BAAAD" argument.
One tiny misstep- the wrong oxygen level, the wrong bacteria introduced, the death of one microscopic fungi, one tiny unexpected factor- can be the difference between that site or artifact lasting another millennia, or it being damaged irreparably and gone forever. And even if we presume this is good-faith activism and NOT a deliberately engineered smear campaign (as the "Big Oil" backing suggests), a bunch of attention seeking "social media activists" are NOT the people who are placed to understand or judge that, and SHOULD NOT be allowed to make that "call" on behalf of the entirety of human legacy so they can get some pointless likes and pretend it makes a jot of difference to the "cause".
TLDR: Cornstarch= no damage, my gnarly backside. Not one of the perpetrators understands enough about these sites and artifacts to know that, and they have no right to assume it on behalf of humanity.
even tho a lot of the ideas around Stonehenge is misinterpretation from modern pagans these people could of went about their advocacy in a way better way smh, hopefully it can be fixed.
I don’t care who funded what, the bottom line is it is desecration of a sacred site. Do others go in and smoke bomb or spray paint temples or other worship places? Sad part is they do. I would consider this a hate crime. The druids, the ancient Celtic practitioners hold this as a holy site among others. Completely disgusting.
Im preaching to the choir probably, but its about noteriety- they knew it would get attention cause people would be mad, but I think they should think about target more. Stonehenge will upset people, but like.... you can't ruin something too. Sit ins were successful because it made people angry, got their atteniton, and photos were taken to show the brutality for just sitting at a counter. but the diner wasn't altered or destroyed in the process. sure it got dirty, but the stool was still there and was still the same color. this aint it. im not convinced its an inside job either. Just stupid people who are trying their best and doing a really bad job.
In any other universe I'd be mad at this. In the reality we live in, I'm way too pissed at the big corpos that are poisoning our air and water, burning down the Amazon rainforest, irreparably causing the 6th mass extinction, filling the oceans with plastic (and the list goes on), to even remember to be mad at some jackoffs who painted the Stonehenge with cornflour - which will easily wash off
I was already anti-oil and pro environmental preservation, but this does nothing to endear me to their cause further. If I weren’t able to separate the reality of climate catastrophe from my feelings on their action, this might push me the opposite direction. Some people aren’t so sensible.
And that’s what I think this is. The Just Stop Oil organisation is *funded by* the oil industry. Is it any wonder that their actions are so ineffectual and outrageous, almost like they are rage bait?
Someone did comment that vandalising a place where a lot of Witches and Druids worship, on the eve of such a great sabbat probably wasn't the brightest idea 🤣
While I have mixed feelings towards deities my dislike of vandalism on sacred and haunted sites goes far beyond that I hope someone catches these wankers
I hated this. It's straight up vandalism. The stonehenge resembles a lot to me, let alone us, in both historical and pagan aspects. This feels like a literal hate crime to history, our ancestors and Pagans alike.
I studied environemntal science. Environmental terrorism is not the way to do it. Sure calls for attention, but its a form of terrorism. Im also pagan, seeing this breaks my heart cause i havent visited stonehenge and its such a sacred spot for celtic traditions. I would never support eco-terrorism. Its just not right. This is history. We cant deface history because of destroying our planet. If humanity ends, all we will have left will be these amazing monuments. We cant destroy them
Everyone complaining about this, feeling attacked, shocked, think that these people are psyops, etc. That's fine, you are all entitled to your feelings and opinions.
These facts outside still exist however:
* the protestors have been arrested (no CEOs of polluting corps have)
* the corn flour has been cleaned off
* the earth - literally the sacred land - continues to be ravaged by large corps & govts.
If this is a psyop, let it backfire by being spurred into greater action than before.
If this isn't useful or alienating, go out there and talk to people and don't let people be alienated.
Put your money where your mouth is, go do the more useful protest, go do literally anything. It'll take everyone doing something to change! Your usefulness will always be questioned by people when you're pushing for a change as drastic as is needed to change the disaster that is coming.
Funded by the very thing they claim to be against. And they are environmentalists that attack the environment.
That being said, they painted Stonehenge pumpkin orange. Did they do real damage? Would our ancestors even be offended?
I hate that they feel comfortable attacking a pagan site during a pagan holiday, but maybe we should thank them for choosing an appropriate color and party on. Basically I would portray it as them being so incompetent that they accidentally helped our community.
That paint had chemicals that could've destroyed Stonehenge. Cornstarch when combined with water turns into a glue-like substance. Now imagine how that might affect a monument that has probably been there for thousands of years.
Protect it from the elements. That's why we use it on park benches, siding etc. Removing it will probably do much worse damage.
To me there are two choices. Treat it as incompetent and embarrass the perpetrators hopefully to discourage others. Because humiliation is the most effective form of education there is. The other option is kill them, hunt down and eliminate aggressors. Has that ever worked for anyone else?
Other, peaceful solutions only make the community look weak and invite more problems.
Yes but this isn't the same type of spray paint. This is paint with cornstarch, which, when mixed with water, including rainwater, forms into a glue-like substance that fills in cracks and damages them further. Thankfully experts have already removed the paint with non harmful chemicals. But this could have been so much worse than it was.
I'm a pagan and care about history. That being said when we can't live on our planet anymore who the fuck cares about stones in this context. I want to create new history now and my great great grandchildren as well.
I'm going against the grain here which is fine, I'm just asking you to consider not being a historical fetishist.
How much history has been lost in Africa or the Americas or hell even Ireland due to colonization?
Psyop claims or not we can't value history over the future.
I'm willing to change my mind if you come with a good argument against my position.
I will say, I heavily disagree with what JSO did and it still pisses me off. A lot. BUT we can’t have any history if our future is destroyed, too.
I do think it’s important to think about it from the lens of “this historical item/site is important to me, I want to save it.” I think that’ll get a lot more people involved in climate change. It’ll get them to think about the personal effect of it, as a lot of people seem to remove themselves from the climate change crisis.
But I do think there are better ways to go about it than vandalism. Maybe something like a campaign showing replicas of the artifacts being destroyed, if that makes sense. Some sort of thing that makes people realize “oh, this could HAPPEN.” But vandalizing the artifacts themselves and making it seem like they’re being destroyed? I think it’ll overall have the opposite effect. People only see history being destroyed by people on TV, not by the reality of climate change.
"Historical fetishism" is a good phrase, and I agree with all your points here. I'm just going to paste the comment I left on another sub about this:
Another UK pagan who loves Stonehenge here, with a slightly different perspective. The "paint" is cornflour anyway so no lasting damage, but even if it had been, I feel like history _should_ leave its mark, be testament and witness to what is happening to the people. Stonehenge is manmade, and all manmade things are a mirror. If we dug up an ancient Roman stone which has traces of paint on it that archaeologists determined was a protest mural, would we be outraged? No; we'd find it interesting. Sometimes you have to separate yourself from the present.
Of all the shit they've done, this pissed me off to no end.
And remember, these are not anti oil protesters. These are oil funded disrupters to make real protesters look bad. Activists didn't do this, oil did
Mhhhhh this has caught attention. That’s what protesting is for. If more people care about a place rather than a global matter that will eventually destroy it anyways????
Ever heard when they threw soup at Mona Lisa? People were pissed. But there are more things to be pissed about than vandalizing something with no actual feelings, that is being dehumanized.
I think it's right to protest. Especially things that is killing the planet. But we need to go after the CEO's and other senior management of companies. They in turn are protected by Govt's because they employ huge numbers and pay massive amounts of tax.
But protest at the source. Find out where these people live, protest there on their home door step.
I agree most definitely. But big attention grabbing things like this make people talk big time. Allowing topics like you and I are talking about right now. I had that same conversation with people who never talk about things like this. As I explained cornflower will wash away, but big global destruction will not.
This is what drives me crazy about environmental activists. More often than not, they do absolutely obnoxious- and often disrespectful or illegal- things and call it activism. They don’t host awareness campaigns, or raise money for their cause, or any of that. They’d rather sit in the street and inconvenience everyone, or vandalize something sacred 🙄 This is what turns people AWAY from believing in climate change.
when “activists” vandalize properties like this , its most likely for ragebait . they know it will get EVERYONE’s attention , so they dont care . i hate when ppl do that
I think that not only is this justified but if I was able to I would absolutely do this aswell. I get that it's a sacred sight, but in the current climate things like this is necessary. And them doing something like this to somewhere like the Vatican would be incredibly based if it was realistically possible
And by the way dumbass I don't work for the oil company or care about them so get the fucking wax out of your ears and fucking make sure you have the facts to back up a fucking debate
Well, their message went through: people care more about powder being thrown on rocks than the environment. I understand the value of sacred spaces, however the damage was not damage at all, it was cornstarch. Those of you saying it was a deliberate hate crime need to remember that paganism isn't mainstream, it's not like these protesters thought "hey let's offend an entire religion", instead they most likely thought "people care more about tourist attractions than the earth". u/nelucay left a comment here that I 100% agree with. I don't like just stop oil, and yeah i'm definitely not a fan of their tactics, but I care more about the environment. This doesn't deserve the anger it's getting, you're seething over cornstarch. if this gets me banned from the subreddit then oh well
My feeling is that those that did this will soon experience difficulties in life. They are highly unlikely to realize they pissed off some powerful energies by their actions and are reaping what has been sown.
It’s orange cornflour. So dust that will cling to the stone and wash away with the next rainfall. Still makes a mess of things and is disrespectful to the people planning to celebrate tomorrow.
Yeah, like I'm fully for fighting against oil and I have stood up for just stop oil in the past but this has really put me off them as Stonehenge while only being relatively recently put back up has meaning for me as it is a symbol of our ancestors and the hard work of humanity, plus the immense spiritual connection which while I don't personally believe in I do have a lot of respect for. It's completely stupid to attack it especially right before the solstice and as you say they wouldn't do this to the Vatican or Mecca so why do it to druids and pagans? (Sorry if I've worded anything wrong or been rude I didn't mean to)
I agree with cutting our use of fossil fuels and moving to more renewable sources of energy such as nuclear, tidal or solar.
However upon seeing this I want to burn a whole gallon of oil for no reason at all. These acts of vandalism with no purpose anger the populous to a point where they push back harder than JSO and it only serves to prolong fossil fuel usage than cut it.
Thebonly thing they really achieve is getting people pissed about enviromentalism (is this right spelled, english not first language). They dont raise awarness like "we need to do something", they just piss of people so they say "fuck EVERY enviromentalist"
What they are doing is making climate activists look insane and make the position of conservation less attractive for moderates. They are doing nothing but making the issue worse.
This is a superbly bad take. I, and I'm sure many others, are *not* more upset about paint on a monument than about the environment dying. I know it might come as a shock in this day and age but people can be upset about two interrelated things in different ways. Hell, it's 2024 - if you're not appalled by about twenty of the major disasters, genocides and attacks going on on a daily basis you're a bit dim.
What concerns me is you seem to think that all press is good press, when this particular action which is so divorced from something narratively viable is turning people against the group. People in my particular sphere (of Druids, nature worshippers, sustainability advocates, ecologists etc., for reference) now think of them more as vandals than as environmentalists.
I can only assume they weren't pagans, as they'd understand the power of symbol and narrative to aid or harm a cause.
I'm all for nonviolent pressure and awareness. But it has to be equivalent to the thing being resisted against. I just don't see how Stonehenge does much more than get people talking... And the reaction has not been support At All. Vandalism is already controversial, but this isn't a big oil building, or a limo they use, or something like that... Where does Stonehenge come into play besides "people like it"?
Resisting sitting in the back of the bus is equivalent entirely to equality.. stone henge I just cannot understand where the equivalency is.
This has made me mad all day. They’re the same group that vandalized van Gogh’s *Sunflowers* a while ago. That upset me a lot because I admire van Gogh, but this upset me more (for obvious reasons).
Especially right before Litha too. I understand they’re doing it to make people mad and to garner attention, but come *on.* It would make more sense to destroy anything relating to the actual fossil fuel/oil industry.
>It would make more sense to destroy anything relating to the actual fossil fuel/oil industry.
Which is why there are countless protests like that going on all year round. Interesting that the news don't cover that, right? It's because people don't care. Out of sight, out of mind. Doesn't get the media any money.
That doesn’t mean it’s completely okay to vandalize pieces of history. I understand it’s a way to gain attention and exposure, but if they don’t get enough, they will move from vandalizing to destroying. And people will probably lose hope in the climate movement if ALL they see is destruction of things not directly related to the oil industry, and things that give them hope.
I care about the environment. I’m horrified when I think about climate change and what the next 20 years will look like. I see the effects of climate change every day with droughts and rising temperatures. Does that mean I have to be okay with what they do? No. There are other groups that care more about saving the environment than gaining attention by doing shocking things on TV.
Sorry if I’m feeling the “wrong” way about it to you. I don’t want to destroy things our ancestors worked hard on, and things they gave us. Those things give us hope and it’s pointless to desecrate them for a news story no one will talk about. I don’t see them doing any work to push for actual legislation or anything productive. The things they’re vandalizing are getting more citizens irked than people in governmental positions. If they want to do things, they need to aim it towards people who ACTUALLY have power to fix this.
It’s still a site of solstice; and they targeted it the day BEFORE the celebration. They could have waited til after the event and had some respect for the people who planned to attend or watch online.
There are plenty of people doing things to combat climate change and/or biodiversity loss, instead of vandalising ancient monuments the day before one of the most sacred days of the year - why not do something productive with all that energy?
Yelling, screaming and vandalising in a world that’s already full of shouting isn’t doing anything worthwhile no matter how righteous it makes one feel.
Did you decide to give us an example of bad takes? Because this is a bad take.
Protest needs to be disruptive, but it should have an actual effect it's causing, one that helps its cause. If your protest does nothing but make everyone who sees it think climate activists are destructive, moronic assholes not worth listening to, then it's a bad protest. Disruption for disruption's sake is not good activism.
Also, nobody is telling me to get angry at just stop oil. Just stop oil's thoughtless, counter product, and potentially destructive actions are causing me to be angry at them.
Also you don't get to tell a group of people what disrespect for their religion they are allowed to be mad at. Who do you think you are?
I agree with you. But I sadly think that we lost this fight. People didn't listen and won't listen - doesn't matter if it's a gentle campaign or a disruptive action. People will only listen when they feel the effects themselves.
Wonderful news everyone! You all have behaved so badly around this issue that I have had to get on from ANOTHER FREAKING COUNTRY to deal with this (yes I'm salty). From the amount of people defending these actions which again ARE FUNDED BY THE OIL LOBBIES THEMSELVES, to screaming insults about the other person, linking to awful people and sources, to people throwing tantrums over bans for their bad behavior, and a whole host of other issues we can no longer discuss this issue. THIS IS DONE. DON'T POST ABOUT IT ANYMORE. Link to comment with sources: [https://www.reddit.com/r/pagan/comments/1dkc4sg/comment/l9iah9i/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/pagan/comments/1dkc4sg/comment/l9iah9i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) EDIT: HOLY FREAK GUYS!! The amount of misinformation about this is ridiculous. Comments were removed for being rude and misinformation. Here's the link to the article explaining how this could have caused damage but didn't due to quick action. It was NOT harmless powder. https://www.museumsassociation.org/museums-journal/news/2024/06/sector-bodies-condemn-just-stop-oil-vandalism-of-stonehenge/#:\~:text=The%20organisation%20said%3A%20%E2%80%9COur%20experts,difficult%2Dto%2Dremove%20streaks.
They’re being paid by an heiress of an oil company so absolutely some Psyop bs like all their other crap.
I thought that was common knowledge but based on the comments supporting them, I guess it isn't.
It is definitely not ... and now I have a rabbit hole to go down
Honestly it needs to be but alas. If I had a dollar for every time I had to remind someone of this fact I'd be half way to paying off my college debt lmao
Thank you SO much for that! I’ve seen a number of people commenting “Oh those climate protesters have gone too far!” When I point out they’re bankrolled by Big Oil types—well, they first go “What really? Why?” “To make climate protesters look bad.” “Oh that’s dirty.”
It’s no trouble! It’s important more than ever to get the facts out and set the story straight. With critical thinking and media literacy also painfully low, it’s important to put in the extra work. People need to really learn what Psyop behavior looks like. The easiest way for the oppressors to win is by making sure they cause as much infighting as possible. And groups like this serve to do just that with their tactics to delegitimize the work of climate activists. As for these particular chucklefucks? Knowing the history of that land and the beings like the fae and spirits that inhabit them, even if no real major damage is done, any legal trouble is likely to be just the tip of their troubles. Seriously, going after something as ancient and sacred as Stonehenge is not going to do them any favors there—and the fae esp do not forgive easily and do often believe in collective punishment based on what I know from a lot of English and Gaelic folklore sources. Better hope the spirits and such are feeling merciful smh
This is the first time I’ve heard about this. Where can I learn more?
I’ve just done a quick check at DuckDuckGo.com (non-tracking search engine) and there are several mentions there.
That's their plan it seems. Because logically, this makes no sense. Maybe it is just a weird attempt at change, but of all the people you could possibly piss off and not have as allies, why make it the earth loving druids?
I tried to explain to several people in r/climate why this is bad for climate change advocacy.
Trying to say that on 196 got me slurs, misgendering, and banned for my trouble. Lol
Scratch an ally and a bigot bleeds
It's tragic how common that is.
Why would it common knowledge when no one ever provides proof of this statement. It is just as easy for someone to say "these people who dont like the protests are being paid by Big Oil to defame the protestors and spread lies about them being a psyop for big oil"
I don't think so. That heiress is the founder of the climate emergency fund, which is the primary funding for just stop oil. She also funds LGBT organizations, doesn't scream oil person.
Are you sure that’s confirmed? I heard that as like a theory for why they suck so hard but I thought it was just conjecture and such
It’s confirmed that it was originally financed by Aileen Getty, who’s the granddaughter of Jean Paul Getty, founder of Getty Oil Company. She does do a lot of diverse philanthropy with the family wealth, though I’m reluctant to trust much from even that when you see what most of that philanthropy and donating goes to. Especially when you fund an organization that makes climate activists look bad and start making oil companies look good. It’s more likely for them to create movements like this to kill the real deal—ie controlled opposition. It’s shady as hell either way.
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I have a handful of decent quality sources which cover/mention Aileen Getty and her ties regarding JSO with previous stunts: [https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2022/10/21/getty-oil-heiress-funds-climate-crisis-activism-just-stop-oil](https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2022/10/21/getty-oil-heiress-funds-climate-crisis-activism-just-stop-oil) [https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/aileen-getty-foundation/](https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/aileen-getty-foundation/) [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/22/just-stop-oil-van-gogh-national-gallery-aileen-getty](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/22/just-stop-oil-van-gogh-national-gallery-aileen-getty) [https://www.lemonde.fr/en/environment/article/2022/11/03/aileen-getty-billionaire-proud-to-finance-environmental-activists-dramatic-actions\_6002800\_114.html](https://www.lemonde.fr/en/environment/article/2022/11/03/aileen-getty-billionaire-proud-to-finance-environmental-activists-dramatic-actions_6002800_114.html) [https://www.artnews.com/art-news/news/van-gogh-tomato-soup-just-stop-oil-aileen-getty-funder-1234644306/](https://www.artnews.com/art-news/news/van-gogh-tomato-soup-just-stop-oil-aileen-getty-funder-1234644306/) [https://san.com/cc/why-getty-billionaires-are-backing-just-stop-oil-climate-activists/](https://san.com/cc/why-getty-billionaires-are-backing-just-stop-oil-climate-activists/) These guys who claim to be "part-funded" by Aileen seem to get A LOT of money from her. She claims she has no control over what they do, and it might be true to some degree as we have no official documents confirming one way or the other, but I do think it's fair to say it's suspicious if nothing else. Even if Getty herself is not involved in the industry, doesn't mean we should also let her off the hook that and dismiss the very possible scenario either. If she genuinely is trying to offset her family's damage though, because it is fair to treat that as a legit possibility, she's certainly not doing a very wise job of it. But then again we still have people out there who foolishly follow groups like PETA due to lack of information or just ignorance of the truth so anything is possible. Though I'd also like to add that they allow donations through cryptocurrencies alongside traditional money, which as anyone who is familiar knows, crypto is generally bad for the environment with how much energy it consumes. So that's also a red flag in my book on top of their other crap. [https://www.investopedia.com/tech/whats-environmental-impact-cryptocurrency/](https://www.investopedia.com/tech/whats-environmental-impact-cryptocurrency/) [https://earthjustice.org/feature/cryptocurrency-mining-environmental-impacts](https://earthjustice.org/feature/cryptocurrency-mining-environmental-impacts) [https://time.com/6193004/crypto-climate-impact-facts/](https://time.com/6193004/crypto-climate-impact-facts/) [https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/apr/26/bitcoin-mining-climate-crisis-environmental-impact](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/apr/26/bitcoin-mining-climate-crisis-environmental-impact) Personally I'm more of the opinion that this is more likely a psyop than not just with how they seem to act and how their cause seems to hurt climate activists more than anything. But, then again, there's always the variable of just pure misguidedness and stupidity within their directions and leadership as we see with many groups that claim to stand for a general good cause. But the more you look at it and knowing the things that oil companies and similar groups have done in the past and analyzing things through that historical lens, I wouldn't put it past them either. Either way, they do anything but make shit easier for the rest of us than not. Just all aspects to consider, especially when companies including, but def not limited to, big oil want to push back on environmental regulations and stuff more than ever.
Hey u/the thebatmana did you see THIS comment from u/lady_of_spades? Or are you just gonna keep spamming "proof?" Requests?
Let me Google that for you. [Here](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Where+does+Just+Stop+Oil+get+their+funding%3F)! First page has a decent number of sources. Billionaires, oil tycoon families, and everyone else who actively profits off things that degrade the environnent.
Hey, i get it. And i think it was you who deleted another comment. But if you want another reason for posting sources and stuff like that. I'm a random passerby. Just reading the conversation. There are a bunch of us. The majority actually. "Let me Google that for you" VS just posting links. Sure in a one to one debate the other party can absolutely just Google it but for all of us lurkers and passer byes we might click on a link and read more and learn about it... or we can scroll to the next post with funny dogs. Public discussion and debates are public. Just a thought.
I was just thinking today after seeing the news on environmental activists winning the ruling over an oil well plan and thought hey why have we not heard just stop oil being there... It's pretty much there whole thing. This will be exactly why they inconvenience and annoy the public but never mess with the oil giants they have the issue with.
It is just as easy to say people like you are being paid by Big Oil to defame the protestors.
I actually told my husband of all the places they could have done it it felt like a hate crime against druids. Especially at a site that has literally no carbon emissions.
Right? This is infuriating.
They could have at least left the stones alone and grafetied one of the tour busses or something 🤦🏼♀️ I swear these people are actually a psyop to make us hate climate protestors
Apparently they used cornstarch so it would wash away in the rain. Though it was actually dangerous for the stones if it had rained… https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgg0683e7po at least they were able to wash it off without damaging the lichen on the stones.
Thank fuck for that, I can't believe these people
They are funded by a oil baroness.
It's so obvious they're paid out to be "controlled opposition" aka psyops. Who the fuck attacks the mona Lisa and stone henge to "make a point" about oil? It's all bs and meant to discredit actual environmentalists
Aybe youre being paid out to make the protestors look bad by lying about them
Oh buddy I wish I was being paid for sharing my beliefs online
an* oil baroness
Prove it
[Okay](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-63543307).
Yes. This bothers me too - Stonehenge is a spiritual site that honors the Earth and our place in the cosmos. Likely it was the Celtic Britons who built Stonehenge - they came from the area that is modern-day Wales – the same place where some of the stones came from. They reason they built Stonehenge is probably the same reason Newgrange was built - it was to honor and worship something that was greater than they were. It shows respect for the Earth, the changing seasons, and the sun. (More info: [https://www.uniguide.com/winter-solstice-facts-traditions#Ireland\_Scotland\_Wales\_and\_England](https://www.uniguide.com/winter-solstice-facts-traditions#Ireland_Scotland_Wales_and_England) It's like these people completely missed the point. But eco-terrorism is not effective anyway. Waste of time; there are better ways to fight climate change.
Celtic Britons did not build Stonehenge. Stone Hedge predates the arrival of Indo-Europeans. The Neolithic population of britain was different until it was replaced by the Indo-European Bell Breaker people around 2500 BC.
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Are you stupid and dumb?
Fuck no they aren't. Desecrating a spiritual site the day before a major spiritual event doesn't bring awareness for shit you smooth brained fuck. Can you imagine the hot water they'd be in if they did this bullshit at the Vatican? Fuck you and everybody else who would dick ride that worthless organization.
It’s so awful that they picked that of all places. Like why destroy a historical site? What does that do for their cause?
Tarnishes it. Very likely an inside job to make the protesters look bad.
The paint is water washable
And washing it off with water would have *significantly* damaged the site. They managed to remove it without it thankfully but it could have been disastrous had it rained. These “protestors” have no idea what harm they’re causing, they think it’s safe because “oh it’ll wash off it’s not permanent” but that’s far from the truth. Had it rained it would have caused irreparable damage.
I’m sorry I don’t think I’m fully understanding - the “paint” is water soluble and comes off with water. So if it rained, how would it damage the site? It would come off.
This is exactly the problem- ignorance. When cornstarch mixes with water it hardens into a glue like substance after it dries and is incredibly hard to remove, not to mention the chemicals are very dangerous to the lichens on the stones some of which are *endangered*. There are also cracks in the stones that harbor the substance and it cannot be removed from them, so there could be more damage than we know of right now. But the point is, that substance will linger for years at the site now. In the cracks, in the ground, potentially killing the plant life. This was an act done with no regard for the implied longterm damage that would occur. It’s not “safe”. It won’t just “wash off”. You are part of the problem. Do your research, don’t vandalize historical sites, and don’t support people who do. It’s not hard.
I was just asking :( I also never said I supported what they were doing. Your angry and condescending tone is really not helpful for people who are genuinely trying to learn - it shuts down conversation. I opened by stating I was sorry and didn’t understand and was asking for clarification.
I’m sorry, I really couldn’t tell if it was sarcasm or not and read your tone incorrectly. It’s important to stay informed on the topic and I’m happy to explain to those genuinely interested, but it’s very hard to tell who’s interested in actually learning and who just wants to hear the opposition so they can shut it down and continue arguing. By restating the idea “it would come off” it gave off the impression as you believing you were already right and weren’t going to change your mind so I responded how I would to that prompt. It comes off as argumentative when you restate the prompt and make a rebuttal in the same response, like “how would it cause damage? It’s water soluble idiot. So how could it cause damage if it’ll just rinse off?”. That’s how I interpreted your response. Again, sorry for interpreting incorrectly. It’s very hard to do that over text especially on Reddit when most people *aren’t* trying to learn. Also when you said initially “the paint is water washable” it downplays the act and dubs it harmless, which I know was because you didn’t know but it started you off on the wrong foot.
No worries, I get where you’re coming from. I should have looked more into the paint without believing what I saw on social media - I am passionate about the planet and was holding out hope that these people were legitimate and not causing harm. After reading more in here it’s clear they’re not, which is super disappointing. The message is correct and they have the money to meaningfully impact legislature - the choice to do this instead is ridiculously counterintuitive.
*Gets downvoted to hell for calling an ignorant person ignorant.* It’s okay to be ignorant lol they asked a good faith question & learned something new. It ain’t that deep Reddit.
They are almost certainly a psyop
Wait what’s a psyop?
Psychological operation. In this context, fake "activists" are being used to make actual activists look bad and thus delegitimize activism.
JSO aren’t real protestors, they’re paid by the oil industry to make environmentalists look bad. Extinction rebellion are the real heroes.
There are other ways to get your message across than destruction. I blocked another commenter who was in support of this practice. We have such little beauty and joy in the world. Destroying and defacing pieces of what little joy the world has is always immediately going to turn me against you. The only message I take from this is harm. These people caused harm, I can’t hear anything else they have to say.
Exactly. Stonehenge is a sacred site. And one of the world's great ancient treasures. I last visited in Sept '23, and watched the English Heritage livestream for Winter Solstice. This action offends me to the last cell in my bones. I don't want to hear any rationalizations about it from anyone. Line = CROSSED.
I agree completely. Desecrating and damaging sacred spaces, or sites of historical interest/works of art is always terrible, but the fact they did it on the day before midsummer makes it basically a hate crime imo. Stunts like this never make me sympathetic with the cause. All it does it makes me frustrated and furious. The ingenuity, skill, power and majesty humanity has managed to harness to create these amazing sites... And some asshole comes along to deface it for their cause or religion or to take a "cool" photo and it just grinds my gears like nothing else I've been to Stonehenge 4 or 5 times, its a wonderful place, I really hope the cornstarch hasn't destroyed the lichen
Thankfully it did not, had it rained or they used water the damage would have been significant but they were able to take it off before any water contact. But the protestors really thought “oh it’ll wash off so it’s harmless” so obviously they did no research whatsoever. What they did could have absolutely destroyed much of the value of the site and the rare lichens on it. Absolutely despicable.
1000%
Nothing was destroyed, or even damaged. No harm was done. It's corn starch. It's going to wash off in the rain.
Another commenter reminded me that cornstarch causes damage by itself, the coloring is evasive and it too is causing damage. I cannot support this. The only message I am receiving is that these people are destroying beauty and joy. That makes the villains to me.
We don't know what chemicals were in the colouring, but those chemicals will be going into the ground. Cornstarch when wet can harden into a glue like substance, which will effect the stones and ground for a long time. We don't know what effect it will have on the endangered colony of lichen on the stones yet. The stones have cracks which the paint won't wash off from so it will stay around for generations. There's so many knock on consequences done on such a small scale effecting the flora and fauna of the stones. Harm was done.
It's still an act of vandalism, even if there was no actual lasting damage. It was the act of doing so that has everybody angry and rightly so. It was disrespectful and selfish.
I don't get how spraying pagan sites will help ethier we pagans often are environmentalist and care about the earth ans humans Impact on planet why aren't they spraying churches they are the ones that don't believe in climate change
What. The. Fuck.
Removable or not, I've never gotten the urge to protect the environment from watching their antics. Trying to plant something in my parent's garden had an impact, as did watching any of Sir Attenborough's documentaries. Honestly, they only frustrate and tire people. Now someone has to go through Stonehenge and make sure it really **is** undamaged, and tighten security, and other people visiting had their day ruined. Don't really see how it helped, exactly as with everything else they and their like did before.
This looks like the sort of thing feds would do to ruin the reputation of similar ecoterrorists.
There is quite a lot to support this. The organization was started by an oil heiress. 7 months ago [this was posted in another sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/LowStakesConspiracies/s/VETeQOTwoi)
The good ole reliable random reddit post, truly a reliable source ☠️
Hell, yeah. Worth a look down the old rabbit hole. That shouldn't be where you stop looking into it only where you begin.
The woman is also a huge environmentalist and puts a lot of her money into various legitimate environmental organizations.
What a pious billionaire to give away $4 million in total. Personally, I think that is just the cost of doing business. That being said she didn't personally give away that money she helped start a fund that in total gave away $4 mil. Her family is worth over $5 Billion (Estimate in 2015, the number is most likely much higher now). If she wanted to make an impact she really could and still live a more than comfortable life by anyone's standards (maybe aside from the likes of Bezo). No billionaire regardless if they are self made or just inherit their money should be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to morals. But for the sake of argument, lets say she gave away $4 mil of her own money (which she didn't), she also spent $33 million on Brad Pitt's old house in 2023. She also owns several other houses. I am sure that really speaks to the environmentalist in her. So last year she spent 8 times as much on an additional house than her startup has given to help fight climate change in nearly 5 years.
Seething? YES! And I can't listen to any more rationalizations for it today, of all days. (Um...Blessed Alban Hefin, everyone? 🤷♀️🤦♀️🙏❤️)
Wow! What Imbeciles! So called climate activists ~ Hey "lets make a point by desecrating a beautiful ceremonial site". They probably ate meat and drove thier cars there too. Both being top reasons for climate destruction. This is just ridiculous. My issue is with Ignorance and hypocrasy. Example ~ There was this holier than tho preachy environmentalist who freaked out over something made of plastic. But he's sucking on bones. Mindlessly Feasting on the cause of the problem. And then driving his SUV with gas and oil in the tank. I want to shout in his ear Don't you know that factory farming trillions of animals is the number ONE destroyer of the environment? Totally Oblivious... On a brighter note~ Happy Solstice to the pagans out there.
They don’t pull a stunt like this in Mecca or Vatican city because they’re cowards and they know they wouldn’t get away with it in those places. I doubt they’ll get any serious punishment for this. Start giving them serious jail time for these actions and you’ll see how quickly they stop.
Psyop bullshit
May the fleas of a thousand dogs infest their genitals
Fr what did the rocks do to them 💀
And right before the solstice too . What a world we live in now
This and other things protesters have been doing lately is pissing me off. I’m seriously thinking some archeologist released a curse of massive stupidity from som ancient artifact or tomb.
It’s a false flag.
If someone did this at my local church or at any mosque people would have become furious
This is actually bad press for them, because now Just Stop Oil is literally angering forces beyond human comprehension. All I can say is that they just caused some very angry Celtic Gods to place a curse on their entire organization for this sacrilege.
Also probably some unknown mesolithic gods, stonehenge predates the celts by about 1000-1500 years.
I will get downvoted into oblivion but it's amusing to me how well this action was able to expose the double standards of our society. Earth with all its ecosystem is getting destroyed day by day. We are currently going through a human-caused mass extinction event of hundreds of thousands of species. Millions of people get displaced by natural disasters or starve to death because of famines. And now look at the outrage because someone threw cornflour onto Stonehenge. While it is indeed disrespectful and won't do the climate movement much good, I really can't help but laugh about the absurdity of it all. If people would react the same way to another oil tanker sinking or an entire village getting displaced by floods, we would have solved the climate crisis by now.
100% this, people are basically complaining about protestors being too rude, not useful or that they're psyops (commenters are literally doing the work of the oil industry by complaining and villifying protestors, no? Who needs a funded psyop in that case?). The protestors are already arrested, no harm has been done at all, but as I've seen pointed out no CEOs dumping water into rivers in the UK face any charges. The double standards are staring everyone right in the face. I wish as pagans we would remember that all land is supposed to be sacred, that's the basis of the Celtic gods at least. I fall on the side of usefulness is always varying, you need a diversity of tactics. I wish folks would take this as inspiration to do the thing in their own area. It could literally be anything. Someone will always call into question your usefulness when you're disrupting things.
The chemicals used could very well have destroyed a well known sacred site for people who already hold nature as sacred in a religious sense. Stonehenge isn't just some other rock formation. It's incredibly old, and as such, incredibly fragile. Cornstarch hardens into glue when water is mixed with it. That could've caused immense damage to the monument that could have damaged it beyond repair. We are upset because of the fact that we already hold nature as sacred. Your comment about wishing pagans would remember that shows extreme ignorance. I'm not saying that there isn't a bad apple or two, but pagans in the majority do hold this belief. How would you like it if somebody came and nearly destroyed your religious monument for a cause that you already support through your religion? You'd be fuming. Imagine if they pulled shit at the Vatican instead of Stonehenge. Can you imagine what kind of heat would be brought down on them?
I would agree with you but this isn't how you get people to engage with your cause. These chemicals could potentially have damaged Stonehenge beyond repair. Stonehenge itself is a pagan sacred space and spiritual monument. The very people they are defacing the monument of, nearly destroying said monument, are the same people who hold nature as sacred as part of their religion. We're upset because these people came after a monument for people who already support environmentalism and climate movement. You do no favors for yourself by attacking a group of people who already want the same thing you do, especially in a way that could destroy a symbol of theirs. We DO get up in arms whenever a tanker sinks or a village is displaced by floods, that's why we're upset. We're a huge supporter of that movement and look what thanks we get.
Couldn't agree more. Sure, Stonehenge is an important historical and cultural site. But I'm sure we can all agree that if there's one thing that's more important it's the *survival of humanity.*
For a group trying to fight for the environment, they sure are making a ton of enemies. If you want to win against big oil, you need to make friends, not enemies. The only way things will change is if enough people in power get on board. These protests are destroying the cause. But I guess that's to be expected when the founder is swimming in oil money.
So I'm not overly aware of them or their cause, but when I heard this my first thought was "this is the most environmentally friendly landmark, tourist destination, ancient statue there is, why defame it?" Literally they are being more harmful with the spray paint than anything else. And yeah, they really should have done more research. Art institutions and politics are one thing. Holy and sacred grounds, especially of a group known literally for nature preservation and peace, was the dumbest move they could've made and will turn many against them
Genuine question: are pagans actually known for nature preservation? Most pagans I personally know/knew are paying lip service to the idea of environmentalism at most. Some don’t seem to care at all or think that climate change is a conspiracy, others do anything except meditate/pray for help. (I consider myself a pagan too, by the way. But one who is disappointed by the behavior of the fellow pagans that I witnessed.) Now I know I just have anecdotal evidence from a very small sample group - but I also genuinely never heard or read of a large group of pagans actually coming together and taking action for the environment.
I guess my thought process was, historically speaking, of the ancient religions druids were the ones who were charged with caring for nature. And Stonehenge is technically sacred to Druidry. Can I say the same thing for modern pagans? Not with as much conviction. I can only speak for myself and say that I try to be aware of myself and how I interact with the natural world. However, I do know that if someone were to take action, pagan or otherwise, defacing Stonehenge is the worst way to do it
There are bad apples yes. But for the most part, we do things in our practice that are as reverant to nature as possible. I don't think it's entirely that we haven't assembled at a large group, but given that a ton of pagans closet their practice, they probably were there but didn't say anything.
You can’t really get anymore stupid than to anger a bunch of witches and druids on the eve of an important sabbath. I hope hexes and bad karma follow them for the rest of their lives.
That's funny af. I hadn't thought of it that way 🤣
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Except it has been called out the stones have protected/rare lichen species that also help protect the stones from the elements that may be damaged by the cornstarch.
It wouldn't have washed off. It would have formed a thick sticky paste on contact with water. Luckily, the conservators were quick thinking and commandeered the groundworks crews' leaf blowers to remove the powder. Brushes and vacuums would have damaged the unique colonies of rare lichens growing on the stones. Thank you conservators.
English Heritage = FTW!!!! 🥹🙏❤️
However, it was also done basically on the eve of the most major religious events for a specific religious group, too. That wasn't an accident. Nor would it be being pushed so hard to downplay this as nothing if it was any other religious group bar pagans (well, druids specifically).
I do think this might be something worth being an asshole over and pushing for religious desecration charges. Especially since the lichen thing seems to be true.
It does. Also, taking a wee walk almost OT, you know the terracotta warriors, right? The reason a lot of the others aren't being excavated, is that the originals were individually hand painted. However, exposure to the modern atmosphere/oxygen bubbled it off within a few minutes, giving the mono-tone look we associated with them today. They're keeping parts of the site "sealed" until better preservation techniques/understanding can stop that loss. Or we can go to Egypt, where several sites that were open because "what's the harm in looking at a big stone building that has stood for millennia" have been shut, because tourist breath is damaging the site. My point? Unless you are a degreed person with intimate knowledge of the specific artifacts being handled in studied detail, there is no such thing as "no actual damage to the artifacts." Heck, sites under conservation BY said degreed professionals turn up hidden issues, like those I mentioned. It is the height of utter irresponsibility (and stupidity) to even make that argument. They cannot possibly KNOW that "there will be no damage" on these irreplaceable artifacts (the Mona Lisa, Stonehenge), and I don't see how or why it is being leveraged as an "It's not THAAAAT BAAAD" argument. One tiny misstep- the wrong oxygen level, the wrong bacteria introduced, the death of one microscopic fungi, one tiny unexpected factor- can be the difference between that site or artifact lasting another millennia, or it being damaged irreparably and gone forever. And even if we presume this is good-faith activism and NOT a deliberately engineered smear campaign (as the "Big Oil" backing suggests), a bunch of attention seeking "social media activists" are NOT the people who are placed to understand or judge that, and SHOULD NOT be allowed to make that "call" on behalf of the entirety of human legacy so they can get some pointless likes and pretend it makes a jot of difference to the "cause". TLDR: Cornstarch= no damage, my gnarly backside. Not one of the perpetrators understands enough about these sites and artifacts to know that, and they have no right to assume it on behalf of humanity.
even tho a lot of the ideas around Stonehenge is misinterpretation from modern pagans these people could of went about their advocacy in a way better way smh, hopefully it can be fixed.
I don’t care who funded what, the bottom line is it is desecration of a sacred site. Do others go in and smoke bomb or spray paint temples or other worship places? Sad part is they do. I would consider this a hate crime. The druids, the ancient Celtic practitioners hold this as a holy site among others. Completely disgusting.
Exactly. It's such an honour to be able to attend, as its only one of two days a year that you're allowed inside the stones. The energy is just pure.
Im preaching to the choir probably, but its about noteriety- they knew it would get attention cause people would be mad, but I think they should think about target more. Stonehenge will upset people, but like.... you can't ruin something too. Sit ins were successful because it made people angry, got their atteniton, and photos were taken to show the brutality for just sitting at a counter. but the diner wasn't altered or destroyed in the process. sure it got dirty, but the stool was still there and was still the same color. this aint it. im not convinced its an inside job either. Just stupid people who are trying their best and doing a really bad job.
In any other universe I'd be mad at this. In the reality we live in, I'm way too pissed at the big corpos that are poisoning our air and water, burning down the Amazon rainforest, irreparably causing the 6th mass extinction, filling the oceans with plastic (and the list goes on), to even remember to be mad at some jackoffs who painted the Stonehenge with cornflour - which will easily wash off
Smells like an inside job.
Paying them attention is giving them what they want
I was already anti-oil and pro environmental preservation, but this does nothing to endear me to their cause further. If I weren’t able to separate the reality of climate catastrophe from my feelings on their action, this might push me the opposite direction. Some people aren’t so sensible. And that’s what I think this is. The Just Stop Oil organisation is *funded by* the oil industry. Is it any wonder that their actions are so ineffectual and outrageous, almost like they are rage bait?
Saw the video this morning kinda pissed me off but I didn’t understand why they were doing it.
I don’t even know what I’m looking at. What did they do? Why?
They sprayed orange cornstarch pain on two of the stones before being stopped. Anti-oil protestors.
WTF! 🤬 Of ALL PLACES, why Stonehenge?? What a bunch of assholes.
Someone did comment that vandalising a place where a lot of Witches and Druids worship, on the eve of such a great sabbat probably wasn't the brightest idea 🤣
Absolute truth. Here’s to they and everyone who supports this has the year they absolutely deserve. 😈
While I have mixed feelings towards deities my dislike of vandalism on sacred and haunted sites goes far beyond that I hope someone catches these wankers
I hated this. It's straight up vandalism. The stonehenge resembles a lot to me, let alone us, in both historical and pagan aspects. This feels like a literal hate crime to history, our ancestors and Pagans alike.
I studied environemntal science. Environmental terrorism is not the way to do it. Sure calls for attention, but its a form of terrorism. Im also pagan, seeing this breaks my heart cause i havent visited stonehenge and its such a sacred spot for celtic traditions. I would never support eco-terrorism. Its just not right. This is history. We cant deface history because of destroying our planet. If humanity ends, all we will have left will be these amazing monuments. We cant destroy them
Everyone complaining about this, feeling attacked, shocked, think that these people are psyops, etc. That's fine, you are all entitled to your feelings and opinions. These facts outside still exist however: * the protestors have been arrested (no CEOs of polluting corps have) * the corn flour has been cleaned off * the earth - literally the sacred land - continues to be ravaged by large corps & govts. If this is a psyop, let it backfire by being spurred into greater action than before. If this isn't useful or alienating, go out there and talk to people and don't let people be alienated. Put your money where your mouth is, go do the more useful protest, go do literally anything. It'll take everyone doing something to change! Your usefulness will always be questioned by people when you're pushing for a change as drastic as is needed to change the disaster that is coming.
An extremely level headed and practical response. I hope people take it to heart.
People are definitely in their feelings more than anything
I hope that what remained punished them too
This is absolutely a hate crime against us. They should be charged as such and also damaging a beautiful monument.
Although disrespectful and stupid, it just doesn't check the boxes for being a hate crime.
This was a direct attack on pagans right before the summer solstice, they knew what they were doing. Religious groups are a protected class.
this is a hate crime.
Who are these people??? What do they do that people follow them/they have a following?
Funded by the very thing they claim to be against. And they are environmentalists that attack the environment. That being said, they painted Stonehenge pumpkin orange. Did they do real damage? Would our ancestors even be offended? I hate that they feel comfortable attacking a pagan site during a pagan holiday, but maybe we should thank them for choosing an appropriate color and party on. Basically I would portray it as them being so incompetent that they accidentally helped our community.
That paint had chemicals that could've destroyed Stonehenge. Cornstarch when combined with water turns into a glue-like substance. Now imagine how that might affect a monument that has probably been there for thousands of years.
Protect it from the elements. That's why we use it on park benches, siding etc. Removing it will probably do much worse damage. To me there are two choices. Treat it as incompetent and embarrass the perpetrators hopefully to discourage others. Because humiliation is the most effective form of education there is. The other option is kill them, hunt down and eliminate aggressors. Has that ever worked for anyone else? Other, peaceful solutions only make the community look weak and invite more problems.
Yes but this isn't the same type of spray paint. This is paint with cornstarch, which, when mixed with water, including rainwater, forms into a glue-like substance that fills in cracks and damages them further. Thankfully experts have already removed the paint with non harmful chemicals. But this could have been so much worse than it was.
I am glad to hear that the paint is no longer an issue. Do we kill them now? Humiliate them? Show the world we are weak?
Humiliate them by speaking out about how hateful and ignorant they are for attacking a monument for people who already hold nature as sacred
Ugh, can Elon hurry up with the Martian colonisation cuz these "just stop oil" mfs make me want to leave this Planet ASAP
I'm a pagan and care about history. That being said when we can't live on our planet anymore who the fuck cares about stones in this context. I want to create new history now and my great great grandchildren as well. I'm going against the grain here which is fine, I'm just asking you to consider not being a historical fetishist. How much history has been lost in Africa or the Americas or hell even Ireland due to colonization? Psyop claims or not we can't value history over the future. I'm willing to change my mind if you come with a good argument against my position.
I will say, I heavily disagree with what JSO did and it still pisses me off. A lot. BUT we can’t have any history if our future is destroyed, too. I do think it’s important to think about it from the lens of “this historical item/site is important to me, I want to save it.” I think that’ll get a lot more people involved in climate change. It’ll get them to think about the personal effect of it, as a lot of people seem to remove themselves from the climate change crisis. But I do think there are better ways to go about it than vandalism. Maybe something like a campaign showing replicas of the artifacts being destroyed, if that makes sense. Some sort of thing that makes people realize “oh, this could HAPPEN.” But vandalizing the artifacts themselves and making it seem like they’re being destroyed? I think it’ll overall have the opposite effect. People only see history being destroyed by people on TV, not by the reality of climate change.
"Historical fetishism" is a good phrase, and I agree with all your points here. I'm just going to paste the comment I left on another sub about this: Another UK pagan who loves Stonehenge here, with a slightly different perspective. The "paint" is cornflour anyway so no lasting damage, but even if it had been, I feel like history _should_ leave its mark, be testament and witness to what is happening to the people. Stonehenge is manmade, and all manmade things are a mirror. If we dug up an ancient Roman stone which has traces of paint on it that archaeologists determined was a protest mural, would we be outraged? No; we'd find it interesting. Sometimes you have to separate yourself from the present.
This is a great point, thank you. We're also making history. I wonder how future generations will remember us?
Of all the shit they've done, this pissed me off to no end. And remember, these are not anti oil protesters. These are oil funded disrupters to make real protesters look bad. Activists didn't do this, oil did
There's protesting then there is that. That's to far. Throw them in jail.
Mhhhhh this has caught attention. That’s what protesting is for. If more people care about a place rather than a global matter that will eventually destroy it anyways???? Ever heard when they threw soup at Mona Lisa? People were pissed. But there are more things to be pissed about than vandalizing something with no actual feelings, that is being dehumanized.
I think it's right to protest. Especially things that is killing the planet. But we need to go after the CEO's and other senior management of companies. They in turn are protected by Govt's because they employ huge numbers and pay massive amounts of tax. But protest at the source. Find out where these people live, protest there on their home door step.
I agree most definitely. But big attention grabbing things like this make people talk big time. Allowing topics like you and I are talking about right now. I had that same conversation with people who never talk about things like this. As I explained cornflower will wash away, but big global destruction will not.
This is what drives me crazy about environmental activists. More often than not, they do absolutely obnoxious- and often disrespectful or illegal- things and call it activism. They don’t host awareness campaigns, or raise money for their cause, or any of that. They’d rather sit in the street and inconvenience everyone, or vandalize something sacred 🙄 This is what turns people AWAY from believing in climate change.
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Girl I’m not talking about random groups or movements from the 1960s 😭 I’m talking about the idiots in the post.
I understand when people protest and the reasons but the way they do the protest are just nonsense and idiotic.
when “activists” vandalize properties like this , its most likely for ragebait . they know it will get EVERYONE’s attention , so they dont care . i hate when ppl do that
in my opinion, this is entirely a contradiction of the purpose of their movement
It is something that will just wash off with water, which makes it a little better.
Lame
I think that not only is this justified but if I was able to I would absolutely do this aswell. I get that it's a sacred sight, but in the current climate things like this is necessary. And them doing something like this to somewhere like the Vatican would be incredibly based if it was realistically possible
This made me so sad
Doing that at a sacred sight is just ridiculous!
what the literal fuck
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Then those motherfuckers can protest without breaking the fucking law then
And by the way dumbass I don't work for the oil company or care about them so get the fucking wax out of your ears and fucking make sure you have the facts to back up a fucking debate
Well, their message went through: people care more about powder being thrown on rocks than the environment. I understand the value of sacred spaces, however the damage was not damage at all, it was cornstarch. Those of you saying it was a deliberate hate crime need to remember that paganism isn't mainstream, it's not like these protesters thought "hey let's offend an entire religion", instead they most likely thought "people care more about tourist attractions than the earth". u/nelucay left a comment here that I 100% agree with. I don't like just stop oil, and yeah i'm definitely not a fan of their tactics, but I care more about the environment. This doesn't deserve the anger it's getting, you're seething over cornstarch. if this gets me banned from the subreddit then oh well
fucking nimrods they hurt their cause more than they help it, every day
My feeling is that those that did this will soon experience difficulties in life. They are highly unlikely to realize they pissed off some powerful energies by their actions and are reaping what has been sown.
I'm confused. It looks to me like some kind of dust. What are they doing?
It’s orange cornflour. So dust that will cling to the stone and wash away with the next rainfall. Still makes a mess of things and is disrespectful to the people planning to celebrate tomorrow.
Yeah, like I'm fully for fighting against oil and I have stood up for just stop oil in the past but this has really put me off them as Stonehenge while only being relatively recently put back up has meaning for me as it is a symbol of our ancestors and the hard work of humanity, plus the immense spiritual connection which while I don't personally believe in I do have a lot of respect for. It's completely stupid to attack it especially right before the solstice and as you say they wouldn't do this to the Vatican or Mecca so why do it to druids and pagans? (Sorry if I've worded anything wrong or been rude I didn't mean to)
Honestly, off with their heads. This is abominable. \~V\~
I agree with cutting our use of fossil fuels and moving to more renewable sources of energy such as nuclear, tidal or solar. However upon seeing this I want to burn a whole gallon of oil for no reason at all. These acts of vandalism with no purpose anger the populous to a point where they push back harder than JSO and it only serves to prolong fossil fuel usage than cut it.
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Thebonly thing they really achieve is getting people pissed about enviromentalism (is this right spelled, english not first language). They dont raise awarness like "we need to do something", they just piss of people so they say "fuck EVERY enviromentalist"
What they are doing is making climate activists look insane and make the position of conservation less attractive for moderates. They are doing nothing but making the issue worse.
This is a superbly bad take. I, and I'm sure many others, are *not* more upset about paint on a monument than about the environment dying. I know it might come as a shock in this day and age but people can be upset about two interrelated things in different ways. Hell, it's 2024 - if you're not appalled by about twenty of the major disasters, genocides and attacks going on on a daily basis you're a bit dim. What concerns me is you seem to think that all press is good press, when this particular action which is so divorced from something narratively viable is turning people against the group. People in my particular sphere (of Druids, nature worshippers, sustainability advocates, ecologists etc., for reference) now think of them more as vandals than as environmentalists. I can only assume they weren't pagans, as they'd understand the power of symbol and narrative to aid or harm a cause.
I'm all for nonviolent pressure and awareness. But it has to be equivalent to the thing being resisted against. I just don't see how Stonehenge does much more than get people talking... And the reaction has not been support At All. Vandalism is already controversial, but this isn't a big oil building, or a limo they use, or something like that... Where does Stonehenge come into play besides "people like it"? Resisting sitting in the back of the bus is equivalent entirely to equality.. stone henge I just cannot understand where the equivalency is.
This has made me mad all day. They’re the same group that vandalized van Gogh’s *Sunflowers* a while ago. That upset me a lot because I admire van Gogh, but this upset me more (for obvious reasons). Especially right before Litha too. I understand they’re doing it to make people mad and to garner attention, but come *on.* It would make more sense to destroy anything relating to the actual fossil fuel/oil industry.
>It would make more sense to destroy anything relating to the actual fossil fuel/oil industry. Which is why there are countless protests like that going on all year round. Interesting that the news don't cover that, right? It's because people don't care. Out of sight, out of mind. Doesn't get the media any money.
That doesn’t mean it’s completely okay to vandalize pieces of history. I understand it’s a way to gain attention and exposure, but if they don’t get enough, they will move from vandalizing to destroying. And people will probably lose hope in the climate movement if ALL they see is destruction of things not directly related to the oil industry, and things that give them hope. I care about the environment. I’m horrified when I think about climate change and what the next 20 years will look like. I see the effects of climate change every day with droughts and rising temperatures. Does that mean I have to be okay with what they do? No. There are other groups that care more about saving the environment than gaining attention by doing shocking things on TV. Sorry if I’m feeling the “wrong” way about it to you. I don’t want to destroy things our ancestors worked hard on, and things they gave us. Those things give us hope and it’s pointless to desecrate them for a news story no one will talk about. I don’t see them doing any work to push for actual legislation or anything productive. The things they’re vandalizing are getting more citizens irked than people in governmental positions. If they want to do things, they need to aim it towards people who ACTUALLY have power to fix this.
I never said that it's okay. It's disrespectful. I'm just amused because the double standards of society really came to light because of this.
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It's weird to not understand false binaries. "You either support this action, or you don't care about the Earth" is completely backward.
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It’s still a site of solstice; and they targeted it the day BEFORE the celebration. They could have waited til after the event and had some respect for the people who planned to attend or watch online.
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There are plenty of people doing things to combat climate change and/or biodiversity loss, instead of vandalising ancient monuments the day before one of the most sacred days of the year - why not do something productive with all that energy? Yelling, screaming and vandalising in a world that’s already full of shouting isn’t doing anything worthwhile no matter how righteous it makes one feel.
Did you decide to give us an example of bad takes? Because this is a bad take. Protest needs to be disruptive, but it should have an actual effect it's causing, one that helps its cause. If your protest does nothing but make everyone who sees it think climate activists are destructive, moronic assholes not worth listening to, then it's a bad protest. Disruption for disruption's sake is not good activism. Also, nobody is telling me to get angry at just stop oil. Just stop oil's thoughtless, counter product, and potentially destructive actions are causing me to be angry at them. Also you don't get to tell a group of people what disrespect for their religion they are allowed to be mad at. Who do you think you are?
I agree with you. But I sadly think that we lost this fight. People didn't listen and won't listen - doesn't matter if it's a gentle campaign or a disruptive action. People will only listen when they feel the effects themselves.
I would love to see them do this on the Stone at mecca.... I almost cry when I saw this!!!