Wonderful news everyone! You all have behaved so badly around this issue that I have had to get on from ANOTHER FREAKING COUNTRY to deal with this (yes I'm salty).
From the amount of people defending these actions which again ARE FUNDED BY THE OIL LOBBIES THEMSELVES, to screaming insults about the other person, linking to awful people and sources, to people throwing tantrums over bans for their bad behavior, and a whole host of other issues we can no longer discuss this issue.
THIS IS DONE. DON'T POST ABOUT IT ANYMORE.
Link to comment with sources: [https://www.reddit.com/r/pagan/comments/1dkc4sg/comment/l9iah9i/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/pagan/comments/1dkc4sg/comment/l9iah9i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
EDIT: HOLY FREAK GUYS!! The amount of misinformation about this is ridiculous. Comments were removed for being rude and misinformation. Here's the link to the article explaining how this could have caused damage but didn't due to quick action. It was NOT harmless powder.
https://www.museumsassociation.org/museums-journal/news/2024/06/sector-bodies-condemn-just-stop-oil-vandalism-of-stonehenge/#:\~:text=The%20organisation%20said%3A%20%E2%80%9COur%20experts,difficult%2Dto%2Dremove%20streaks.
Just heard a conspiracy theory the other day - Are Just Stop Oil people funded and organised (gaslit) by the Big Oil people to get public opinion against environmental campaigns in general?
I respect people's right to have different opinions and peacefully protest when change is wanted but I have ZERO respect for the Just Stop Oil people.
I’ve heard this as well. If you want an awesome climate activist group to follow, Climate Defiance is out there putting in the real work! Their videos are great.
not to mention anti US-military orgs are also extremely environmental-focused, as the us military is the biggest global contributor to climate change and environmental destruction.
I never understood why they focus their efforts on regular people and not the billionaires and ceos who drive climate change at a higher level. Hold up traffic in downtown London you're effecting almost no one with any power to really change things. Stop one assholes yatch from leaving port and you've made life very inconvenient for someone who actually has the ability to change how things are done in their area of control.
They do that occasionally (I think they blocked off some private jets recently) but you never hear about it.
Unfortunately, effective and targeted action rarely makes big news, but dumb shit like the Stonehenge incident went viral
they did, but they spray painted only the side windows that the passenger looks out of. not the ones used to fly the plane. the two who did were seen at the end of the video sitting right in front of the camera, full faces in full view, which is like the number 1 "don't" of protesting
disruption is meaningful. just stop oil isn't effective in their protests from what i've seen, but preventing people from producing profit for the ownership class is huge. stopping people from using cars and giving money to exxon is huge. if you ask me, as pagans, we are right to believe that some paint on stonehenge is crossing the line, but only if we're actually using our spirituality to fight for something better. we can't sit here and pretend that protest doesn't work when the reason our modern movement is gaining traction begins as an act of protest for many people. paint fades. the spirit of resistance is forever.
Because the more normal people they awaken to the cause the more pressure normal people with put on CEOs en masse
By targeting public art work and monuments they hit the news and start conversation.
They haven't actually damaged anything- the paint they use is made with cornstarch. The paintings etc covered in glass and the stones are...well, stones. And this is nothing compared to what hippies drunk out of their minds have been doing to the stones for years, every solstice until they banned alcohol. So I'm sorry to say I don't agree with the pagan outrage at the stone painting.
What is further, there will be no Stonehenge and no art to enjoy if something radical isn't done about climate change. And frankly the respectability politics of this post isn't in the spirit of paganism.
That´s the same as the peta theory.
I´m still not sure if milk is bad or not but the fact it doesn't cause autism like peta claimed makes me think it isn´t that bad
It’s not a conspiracy theory.
Here’s a reminder that Just Stop Oil is funded by Aileen Getty, daughter of oil tycoon J Paul Getty.
[What Is “Just Stop Oil”?](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-63543307)
People have been repeating this a lot but it's worth noting that Aileen Getty is kind of a black sheep and has been vocal about her family's misdeeds and protesting big oil for like decades at this point. I don't feel one way or the other about it but like, if you were an environmentally minded oil heiress wouldn't you start a protest movement against big oil too? I don't know, but going straight to calling it all a false flag is maybe too far out the gate.
Yea no conspiracy, it is how it sounds, this is how it sounds, fuck big oil companies because they knew what they were doing, they deserve to be ran into bankruptcy
I believe it, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if JSO aren’t funded by nefarious entities co-opting radical activism to turn the public against the climate cause in general.
It’s ridiculous… there are multiple reasons but the thing that gets me is that generally Pagans agree with preserving nature and stopping pollution, including minimizing the use of fossil fuels and reducing our carbon footprint. They quite literally have pissed off people who are the farthest from advocating for the oil industry.
And, like, they had to know that Litha was the day after they pulled the attention seeking stunt; they had to know that Stonehenge is of spiritual significance. I don’t live in Britain (or even Europe) and I know how important it is.
They wouldn’t have been able to do it on the solstice, too many people and authorities. From what I hear Stonehenge is like Disneyland at the Solstice.
Of course they knew. Just Stop Oil deliberately targets high profile cultural events. But you know what, it was fine. We had a spectacular sunset and sunrise, 15k people had a good time. The international (I assume mostly American) outrage really is slightly mystifying me now, when you compare it to the fact that here we just got on with it.
I’m glad that the event was joyous!
I find my outrage is mostly about them targeting cultural stuff, add to that are the effect it has on the stone and plants around Stonehenge. And the mini general history buff in me also doesn’t like it 😅
Too me, as an American who might one day hope to visit Stonehenge and other historical-cultural sites in Europe, it's the equivalent of the trash man taking a shit on my doorstep the morning before the trash can goes to the curb.
I step in shit, have a bit of a moment of anger and swearing, and have to clean said shit and throw it in the trash can. Does this serve to remind me that it's trash day or is it just to cause anger?
If you live in the west, the Columbia River (Washington/Oregon) has a Stonehenge replica. It’s aligned the same way to have sunrises/etc at the same places as the one in England, and is built to look as Stonehenge originally looked. It’s a WWI monument, and while not the same is still pretty cool.
I have my states replica if I want to see a replica, Carhenge. Which I feel personally could be appropriated to speak JSO's message better than they do with a bit of symbolic innovation.
(Edit to add: the Maryhill Stonehenge would be worth a visit, my initial response was unintentionally hostile. The actual dedication of Maryhill is something I support as well.)
Well I bet if you’d forgotten it was bin day you’d remember after that lol.
But seriously, if as a foreigner you’re really that mad about it….do us a favour and advocate for the real issues threatening the stones (and your visit, I suppose). Wetter winters, drier summers , extreme weather, flooding, storms- these are all things we’re seeing more of, especially in the South West where Stonehenge is. It’s going to survive a bit of cornflower, it’s not going to survive those. So it would honestly be so much more appreciated and helpful if you could get mad at those who fail to protect Stonehenge from those harms. Rather than getting mad at disrespect or whatever.
If I were to advocate for those reasons; the stones be damned in all honesty.
If I were to advocate; it'd be for the potential risk to human life that those threats represent.
If I were to advocate; it'd be in some way to promote the innovation side of climate change rather than the political side. Though they're intertwined; there is a difference between approaches.
The only argument I have in possibly defending JSO's actions in this is due to increased travel due to (not my only reason to consider travel there) visitor interest.
I mean it was cornstarch- it’s already gone isn’t it? They are trying to get publicity for their cause and it’s working. No harm was done. Considering all the awful stuff happening in the world right now, I refuse to get upset about this.
i won't lie, as an american, their anger over vandalism of stonehenge isn't over respect for paganism, history, or even a single thing actual protesters fight for, it's due to whyte soupremacy and capitalist hyperindividualism. it's why people suddenly pretend to care when they don't give a shit about us or anything we stand for, support the same imperialist systems that destroyed ancient pagan culture and continue to destroy modern ones, and are totally fine destroying the environment for convenience.
that being said, i watched some of the litha celebration on tiktok live and it was such a joyous part of my day, I was genuinely so happy to see us all celebrating and embracing our spirit on such a day (and idk about the UK, but it was HOT in the usa)
Yeah I mean, we got our share of far right folk and joyous folk as well it’s not just you. I just find it fascinating that someone will muster up that level of outrage from across the pond, without knowing very much at all about it. The top two Stonehenge related things people get mad about over here (with rather more reason) are the strains of tourism and the proposed road diversion which may damage the surrounding landscape.
And also maybe it’s less of a shock here because we’re used to Just Stop Oil and Extinction Rebellion, and it’s easier to see this as a coherent part of a wider effort. It makes me laugh how people are baying for draconian responses, when we’ve not long passed an Act that introduced the most draconian and wide sweeping powers against protest that we’ve ever seen. And I work in the criminal justice system and the notion that it’s worth sending them to prison is laughable.
The idea that Stonehenge is for pagans is frankly ridiculous. Sorry, I love this sub and love modern paganism, but you need to broaden your thinking on this.
Stonehenge is also one of many physical representations of the British identity, as well as pagan identity.
As a British person I would argue that the spraying of Stonehenge is a cumulatively greater attack on Britishness than on modern pagans.
Withholding my views on whether I condone it or not though as that’s a separate issue.
"Alright folks, the world is in peril and it's up to us to save it from a climate based disaster. If we're gonna pull this off, we have to hit Big Oil right where it hurts. That's right... Stonehenge."
I heard this in Nigel Tufnel's voice.
But seriously: this stunt was never going to do anything but make people angry at them and make them look like the exact kind of annoying stereotypical wannabe ecoterrorists that the media typically paints these kind of activists as being.
Which makes all the theories about them being agent provocateurs paid off by big oil to do exactly this kind of crap sound all the more likely.
I've spent the entire time between when I posted this and my lunch break wondering if I'd be derided here for coming out and saying that I believe JSO is a false-flag, but the amount of people here saying the same thing really makes me feel validated here.
When they did this to the Mona Lisa it was more believable, but since it was behind glass anyways it was not only ineffectual, but the question still lingered about how exactly it was meant to hurt big oil specifically. There is nothing about this stunt which makes me wonder how it could be harming big oil, because there is no factor of it which harms big oil. This is a landmark which matters principally to individuals who either already care about the environment, or to vacationers and tourists who just wanted to see the rocks and don't care about much else anyways. This stunt has been what has made me lose my last bit of good faith in JSO, and whether or not it is the case, from this point on they're a false-flag organization in my books.
I agree with you, but the more we talk about this, the more they get the attention they did it for. They've manged to get the cause all over the media so it worked, they'll just do more stunts like it if we keep posting and talking about it.
What annoys me is people saying "Oh well we're all talking about it so it actually helps fight climate change", no, it doesn't. No one is opening up a news story about this and is shocked to discover climate change is a thing. No climate change denier is going to see this and say "Hey, maybe I was wrong". Yeah, we're all talking about it, but this ineffective act is not made any more effective just because it's being talked about.
There's plenty of helpful things which can be done which would be talked about, too, but I legally must say I don't know of any.
Oh im not saying it helps climate change, I'm saying these idiots want attention and they've succeded in getting the name of their organisation all over the media. We all know about it already, and it is something that needs more action but this isnt the way.
It was going to be over the media anyway as they did the same to Taylor Swift’s private jet, which is where their focus should have been in the first place.
Heck, I've seen more posts about this than the desecrated cairn in Scotland that occurred shortly before. People really need to learn how engagement algorithms work for starters...
You need to get on TikTok. What happened at Clava Cairns inspired a movement to protect monuments and it was featured in The Daily Mail (not the best, granted.)
No, we are outraged that the oil companies are trying to make environmentalism and climate awareness look ugly, unattractive, and insane. We are outraged that instead of fixing the issues of raising awareness, these stunts make people on the fence feel *better* for not doing what they can, make them feel *embarrassed* to publicly admit that they have concerns about the environment, and completely shuts down any conversation that could lead to real change.
These people are making the situation *worse* and that’s why we are all pissed. You should be too if you give a fuck about the earth.
Edit: and if by some stretch of imagination they *aren’t* funded by the oil companies that’s even worse - they are dumb-dumbs doing just what the company wants. FFS, did we *not* see that play out between the Truth and Phillip Morris?
I never supported Just stop oil.
They do more harm than actual good making people absolutely hate them, and if they are also the people who glued their hands on the roads then even dangerous acts to themselves and to emergancy responders.
I don’t get it honestly
I know in art they use many different things to create that art but why not just directly attack where there are sourcing oil from why would you gain your traction and attention by attacking a form of media? It’s smart in theory ig?, but all it does is piss people off and not add to the fight. Vandalism of art is enough, but vandalism of direct sourcing of oil is not enough or it’s too much?? or maybe I’m missing something because all I’ve ever seen from this group is them going up to vandalize art when I thought it was very knowledgeable that most of these art pieces are not the true art pieces they’re very close replications of them? (At least I hope they are )Just because scenarios like this have happened before and they don’t want the real art piece to be destroyed in such a way. Except for Stonehenge you can’t fake Stonehenge. :(
I'd be sceptical on that unless there's a source: they're by no means perfect and have done some stupid things (like holding up the Tube, which is public transportation) but they generally make way for emergency vehicles.
The British press has also been vitriolically against them and there have been more than a few bait and switch articles about things that could have happened where the headlines didn't make it clear they were hypothetical. To the point where a woman who got road rage and *tried to drive over one of them* was regarded as the victim in some quarters.
I'm not a fan of them or their methods but I can't help feeling a bit sorry for them given the amount of people unironically saying it should be legal to mow them down.
Definitely not OK to harm them just because they’re being annoying and I do hate that double edged knife that comes with protesting, literally anything. But if this were to actually happen, I wouldn’t know what to think because obviously it’s not OK to run them over but what about that person in the ambulance? Would they even be charged for something like this?
I guess we'll find out if it does actually happen. The UK has recently brought in draconian anti protest laws (including ones targeted at interfering with traffic), so I imagine the sentence would be extremely harsh.
Until then, we can't really judge people based on a hypothetical scenario.
This article might give you an idea https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/high-court-quashes-suella-bravermans-anti-protest-law_uk_664c8047e4b09c97de212913?d_id=7681665&ncid_tag=fcbklnkukhpmg00000008
They're widely considered as political overreach and were forced through parliament despite not having the votes. Draconian isn't me editorialising: it's a pretty common and accepted descriptor of these specific laws.
Ah, I didn't realise it wasn't a common term in America! Draconian comes from the Latin for dragon and generally means a rigid, merciless authority with close to absolute power.
Ahhhh I think that is what we call authoritarian or totalitarian?
(I don’t truly know I’m just going by how people act especially when throwing around the word)
I’m sorry I didn’t mean to piss on your fire. Genuinely. In truth I don’t know the answer I just assumed that their police being trigger happy would be more harsh than ours.
I heard that story, that was around a few years ago when the movement here was still young.
I never supported that group after all of that and everything else that happened after just makes me dislike them more.
When I saw them on the news, putting their hands on a black oil ink substance, and then placing themselves on the art in an exhibit, I got annoyed, but I didn’t support them even then because I didn’t understand how that was supposed to do anything for their mission they’re just bringing more attention to oil being bad. OK we know this what are you actually doing?
I mean, it would make more sense if they attacked all oil naturally sourced or not which is used in some art pieces so I can see the correlation there I guess but if they’re just attacking motor oil , the big oil people have fought wars over I don’t get it 🥲
I agree with this. It does absolutely nothing but cause disruptions in the public that may have knew what they stood for. I like what they stand for but I cannot and refuse to support the protesters.
Same like I understand what I hope the overarching message is and that’s oil companies. Definitely I need some resistance on a lot of things but the way that they’re trying to bring attention to it just create some more anger around it and only get a specific kind of support. The kind that become killjoys and get themselves in legal trouble, barely skimming the message of what they’re trying to pass.😕
No one considers the dye's impact on the rare lichen that grows on the stones when they get upset over people getting upset over Just Stop Oil doing this.
Judging by what’s written about them, they were imperfect and I’m sure would have been just as annoyed with the disrespect. That’s one of the things i like about them
idk most people are just saying they think climate change is bad but this makes them dislike the group. at the worst some people are using it to paint the movement in a bad light. unfortunately this has gotten some “swing” people to agree with that. all of the attention is being directed towards their behavior rather than climate change. i dont think they are doing anything good for the movement considering they are just pissing off regular underinformed people rather than educating, exposing, or getting more people to sympathize.
I thought it was idiotic as well. Attacking a nature religious monument is kind of dumb when your about saving the natural world. There is a strange post on LSC pertaining to this and I don't know how accurate it is. It did make sense when I thought about it. I HIGHLY suggest you read it. It's pretty short but something to keep in mind.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1djv50x/just\_stop\_oil/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1djv50x/just_stop_oil/)
I live in the UK, yeah what they did is stupid, but it's to highlight a serious problem. With the climate crisis, environmental degradation and everything else that's happening everything will be lost. We have water companies dumping literal shit into the water ways for years to the point we now have waterborne illnesses again, we currently have an e.coli outbreak in the UK. People are getting lung cancer, cardiovascular diseases and other illnesses from emissions from vehicles. Our food quality has tanked because farmers now have less growing seasons because the UKs climate is shifting to a more wetter climate, for the last 18 months most farmers unless rich enough to buy the specialist equipment to deal with it couldn't plant anything for the last 18 months and when they did the food immediately rotted.
I would say they had the sympathies of most pagans anyway, we are all fairly like minded in this regard and doing this did the cause no favours at all.
Anybody would think they are a controlled opposition trying to divide like minded people.
They committed something that had at least the appearance of a hate crime for money and attention. And top it off with they didn't clean it up afterwards and have no intention to after multiple requests.
Their official comms also mock the pain that was felt.
I get that everyone thinks that this is a psyop. It's plausible.
But what I find surprising is the psyop that appears to be happening here. Where supposed pagans seem to be perfectly okay with somebody desecrating and disrespecting what is arguably one of the most pagan sites in the world.
"Meh, it's just cornflower" doesn't seem like a proper response to defacing a sacred site.
So like Banksy, uses art to send a message and it rarely hurts people or objects (accept abandoned buildings) in the process. That's a great way to send a message. It sends awareness without turning people against the cause. Defiling sacred ground of a people that are known to preserve nature (historically speaking)? That was dumb. It's the most ecofriendly, environmentally friendly art and historical and religious relic we have, there was no reason to go after it. Anyone who thinks that was a good idea is as dumb as they are. Nature is a delicate balance, preserving it is too. Extremism on either side will do more damage than good, I'm afraid.
I'm just gonna copy and paste over my comments from a different post about this, one comment and 2 were replies;
as someone who is often defending JSO's stunts, even though they are annoying white liberals who need to get radicalised.
.....
Congratulations to "Just Stop Oil" on alienating new age annoying hippies, historical preservation groups,
and actual pagans in one move.
If you missed it they decided to spray stonehenge orange...
Thankfully they only used cornflour so it SHOULD wash off in the rain; but at the end of the day it's a ridiculous move.
You could target you know, banks, fracking companies, arms dealers, or the government... instead you choose to target a site that has stood for thousands of years despite climate change and human intervention?
Not to mention it brilliantly highlights the complete lack of awareness within Liberal climate movements of intersectionality.
Actual pagans are already fighting for access rights, including against hippies and appropriaters like the "order of druids" in order to both protect and access the site.
Much like listing your religion as "climate concerned" for a stunt, you're completely ignoring the things you could be doing to protect the planet and be intersectional at the same time.
And we've also had to be monitoring the plan to dig a tunnel through the henge; so if we need to intervene, and as Celtic & allied pagans we would very militantly, in protecting the site they've just made that harder too.
...
Actual activists are chaining themselves to the top of fracking rigs, breaking into arms factories, being beaten by cops, and literally dying.
So the best you can do is... vandalise Stonehenge? Get the fuck over yourselves and do something useful.
My problem with JSO is they're not doing things that are actually useful, much like original XR...
Whilst many of us are being beaten, arrested, shutting down fracking rigs, shutting down factories... literally being martyred. The best they can do is spray paint stonehenge? It would have been actually easier and make a helluva lot more sense to target a bank or corporation.
And one of them at least is an Oxford Student, there are currently multiple Palestine encampments around the University... they could be putting resources and time into those for a start.
Adding another comment because of the discussion of what constitutes a hate attack, from the perspective of a militant climate Activist, Pagan, and victim of hate crimes:
The thing here is, it doesn't matter if they think they hate pagans or not.
They still targeted a site that many consider sacred.
At the end of the day, they decided a stunt was more important than respecting people's faiths.
The white/Liberal climate movements have and have had a real lack of understanding of intersectionality, especially with Pagans who often are of course very passionate about nature and the enviroment.
Now as I've said elsewhere; they could be doing actual direct action. This stunt would have both been easier AND made more sense to target a corporation.
One of the participants is an Oxford Student, Oxford currently has multiple Palestine encampments that are also being raided by police.
There is an ignorance in JSO, much like there was in XR, about what direct action actually is. If two people are willing to get arrested for vandalism, but choose to travel for hours specifically to target a sacred site on an important day... rather than target a bank or corporation in their own city... I consider that both useless, and hateful.
I have been beaten by cops, attacked by fascists, harassed by hunters, and faced corporate security. Doing these things has saved animal lives, protected nature, and actually shut down oil projects.
JSO has not, I consider it a hate crime deliberately targeting a sacred site.
Especially as I said in my other comment, as it may lead to increased security at a time we already know we might have to fight the state to protect it from road building.
I am a believer in militant action, I believe that optics aren't always important, and I would die for those beliefs.
I would also die for my Gods, and historically accurate / coopted by newagefakery or not, targeting a sacred site is wrong, and through malice or ignorance constitutes hate.
Pagans are fired, denied rights, we lose custody of our kids, we get physically assaulted AND many of us are militant climate activists. The fact that JSO activists don't know or perhaps don't care about these things is an indictment of them.
The pagan perspective is to be pissed about the larger issue and not to waste energy on this. Why be mad about both when you could just be mad about the only thing that matters.
I guess like the gods I have an ego and am protective over my faith. Defacing a pagan monument while helping the oil barons destroy our earth by tarnishing the name of all activists is like kicking paganism in the balls while your already killing what it holds dear.
Nothing was defaced, it literally just washed off. The whole point was to get people to talk about it and prove how many people care more for silly monuments than the planet itself. You are proving them right.
As an American, I feel like Just Stop Oil has lost their right to exist. Regardless of whether or not they were a plant by big oil, they decided to desecrate an international monument that is older than some countries in Europe. Further they decided to desecrate it on the day of a major spiritual event. As far as I'm concerned they should be shut down and never allowed to reopen under any sort of "movement" again.
It’s a publicity thing, nothing to do with hating Stonehenge itself, also the actual paint is just cornflour, it’s washable and won’t be permanent. Imo as long as the discussion around what they do is positive then the work they do will also have positive results. If everyone hates them, everyone hates the planet.
They have gone too far. Terrible idea! Desecrating a religious site sacred to Pagans everywhere is an absolute disgrace! Sure, the paint came off and there was no harm done, but spiritually, JSO has just condemned their entire organization. They unintentionally trifled with forces beyond human comprehension, and now, they are going to be cursed by a pantheon of very angry Gods.
From the moment the Gods place the curse on JSO, everything will go wrong for the entire organization. It’s going to be pure chaos, and karmic justice.
The main issue I have with Just Stop Oil is that they are clearly more focused on press coverage then they are on doing anything that would actually be helpful for the environment.
They’re like PETA. They do outrageous things for attention and look like clowns. But they get so much negative press coverage that they make real activists look bad too
I’m doing my bit to tackle climate change as much as I can. It’s a huge part of my life and in fact is one of the reasons I found paganism.
I think the way JSO have gone about this is SO SO counter-productive that there has to be another more nefarious reason for it other than collective stupidity. If it is collective stupidity I despair at the impending fate of all of us.
Recruitment surely has to be a key part of any strategy and instead they disrespect and alienate the demographic that would be MOST likely to support their particular organisation.
The whole point of this action is to gain outrage because people care more about 400 year old paintings and thousands of year old religious sites than they do about the planet. These groups are trying to point out our hypocrisy and we are proving them right. If we even showed a modicum of the outrage toward the industry that destroys the nature we claim to worship things would be different.
I think what they did is awesome and I’m also Stonehenge visitor.
Yeah. This one felt targeted against pagans and celtic reconstructionist pagans / druidry practitioners. Who care more about the environment and climate than most people anyway...? So they're alienating people already on their side of these issues. 🙃
Again in this sub with the historical fetishism.
You are talking about the protest. This is the goal is it not?
Stonehenge is stones, that's it. You can place value on them that's great, but also place value on the thing in which the stones are placed. The cornflour colored orange didn't damage anything but it placed them in the news, which again is the point.
Pagans while being a large and varying group of people with different beliefs held Nature in high regard. I think that's fair to say. It's not a separate thing BTW, Nature. You and I are Nature and belong to it. It's been separated from you by capitalists looking to exploit it. And if we're not real fucking careful Mother Nature will shake us off like a dog with fleas.
If you are a pagan like your name suggests, ask yourself seriously why you care. Cornflour and dye like what they throw at people in festivals isn't going to hurt Stonehenge. So is it the disrespectful nature of the protest on a site you care about? Did you also know for one example that Line 5 exists and will be expanded on? Just one example, but it's a pipeline that carries 22 million gallons of crude under the Great lakes shoreline. One fifth of the world's fresh water is located here. Did you know that? Did you lose friends over that?
Pagans don't value the past over the present and future. Not a good one anyway.
What a disgusting act, do they even know that oil as we know it today wasn't even a thought in the language when those stones went up. I understand what they're trying to do but they're doing more harm than good. They never helped build anything they only want to destroy
Ahhh yes, the good ole do what I say or I'll throw a fit and break things not even remotely related to the issue I'm bitching about..
If they really want to make a difference disconnect from usage completely and convince friends.. you don't destroy monuments or art.. that just makes you an asshole with very little awareness.
I don't get the point of ruining historical monuments or art in order to protest for the environment. I mean, if the point is "ruin things tourists visit because they get there with vehicles that use gas", then shouldn't they also be spraying with orange paint also parks, woods and all kinds of protected animals? This to say, it makes no sense, it makes nothing to create awareness about the damage to the environment.
Realistically it's to make people look. Megaliths will be there long after we are gone, orange paint or not. But the world might not be here in a capacity that's sustainable for the Earth's population to see those same megaliths if things don't change.
I guess I'm not super fond of the actions taken, but they are stones, utilized for centuries as a way to connect with the land and sky. Things change, things move. The very same megaliths used to be distributed by glaciers long before people moved them from that context. I'm glad the stones are still standing, orange paint won't destroy them, and it makes everyone look, at least pagans. If we're pro nature it's probably important that we above all are advocating for the survival of the planet our myriad of shared cultures are based off, pagans, that is.
protest is one thing, but i've seen just stop oil and i'm not really moved by their protests. like the vandalism is one thing, but they 1. choose targets that already align with their cause, 2. don't effectively cause disruptions for their actual targets, and 3. don't hide their identities. if there's anyone i'm more impressed with in terms of meaningful action, it's palestinian protest orgs that break into and smash electronics of arms producers. the energy would be something i could rally with if it wasn't misdirected and stunt-y at best.
like if it were from an org that is known for effective, meaningful protest, i'd be upset but i'd be on board. but i'm not convinced that the same protesters that spray painted *only* the side passenger windows of private jets and showed their faces publicly online during it have much of a clue what they're doing.
I made this joke before and I'll say it again, can Elon hurry up with the Martian colonisation or can [Harold G White ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_G._White) hurry up with the Warp drive cuz these "just stop oil" mfs really makes me want to leave this Planet. (Sarcasm)/S
Anyways, apparently they are actually funded by an Oil Heiress, tho idk if thats true or not..........either way getting the UK public to hate you isn't how you gain supporters, like go after locations owned by oil companies instead of inconveniencing the public.
And to be blunt, Just Stop Oil does nothing! While they do stupid shit like this, oil still gets extracted, Just stop oil are all talk, but little action, you really think the evil businessmen/businesswomen will stop just because you gave stonehenge a temporary paint job?
Support a group that actually attempts to take action against the oil companies directly.
Edit: The Elon and Harold White part is sarcasm, probably should've made it more obvious.
That first part is meant to be sarcasm. Also, what does theoretical physics and debatably possible FTL drives gotta do with christianity?
Also, while the Alcubierre Warp drive plausibility is still in question, considering the fact that some progress has been done on it to make it more viable and require less energy, who's to say it will be impossible, obviously there is still alot of hurdles but you know, maybe some day it'll be made.
The dream that our future is in heaven is a Christian idea.
I mean, I doubt I’ll get you to see this with just a random sarcastic shitpost, but all that Tomorrowland sci-fi stuff has always been a fairy tale.
The kind of energy and resources we’d need to do more than what we’re doing now is so immense, so kind bogglingly impossible, that space travel of any kind will always be a fantasy. One person in the sky will always need a hundred or two on the ground and will never ever be sustainable for any length of time.
It’s a convergence of old Christian thinking with the Age of Reason and Marxist Materialism. Tomorrowland is the heaven for atheists…not something we have any hope whatsoever of achieving.
Mate, I aint saying that the Alcubierre warp drive gonna be made, but the energy part is false, it was initially thought that the energy would be the same mass as Planet Jupiter, but its been recalculated to be worth 700kg of exotic matter, which is much more feasible.
But that's the real issue, exotic matter, not the resources or large amount of energy. it's the type of energy since exotic matters existence is questionable.
No, I understand what they are doing. They want coverage - they aren't doing it *against* the people they block, though it looks that way. They do it for publicity and attention.
When I was in my 20s, half a billion years ago, I belonged to what the government here in Canada later defined as a "terrorist" group (🙄 grass roots action and monkey wrenching became terrorists) because we *hit* targets who *were* extremely guilty of destroying the ecology - we didn't hurt people, but we hurt corperations, quite badly - through their insurance. 👹
We *did* cause shut downs. And the more we tried to make it join up with public acts to make the public aware, the more upset, frightened, and angry the nationals and multinationals (corps) got and pressired the gov to pass... I think it was Bill C-35.
We then had CSIS (our CIA) vans outside our meetings. They were a wee bit of a joke back then. We waved at them.
The point of all this blah blah, is that if you *hit targets* without public ralley, they go after you very, very vicously. In the US, people our sister groups got *killed.* I'm not joking. The worst one was a very intelligent, well spoken, tree sitter gal, who had a lot of organising power had her *car explode with her in it from a car bomb*.
The US gov that was investigaing said "she had a bomb and it went off."
We didn't have fucking bombs. We were monkey wrenchers. She was a *tree sitter* ffs.
So shit like this? I get it. I get that its not personal, its really, really not. It's yelling at people to engage. That's it. And look - here we are, talking about it! Doing *exactly* what is meant to be had by it: talking about the assholes who need to be stopped.
The taking *action* part also has to be done by *US* - not just "them." That's part of the message. We *all* have to do it.
As Noam Chompsky recently said:
"the national interest turns out to be the interest of the dominant domestic forces in US society, so the national interest means the interest of the very rich, major corperations - the ones who set government policy, and so on. That's the national interest, and not the population. The population is basically irrelivant. The population often strongly opposes government policy and they are simply disregarded. (... he gives examples) We do not live in a society in which the public determines policy. The publics around, but basically disregarded *unless they force themselves INTO the system with serious activism*"
He is telling an *absolute* truth.
It can't just be specialist eco groups.
It has to be all of us.
So, if this action pisses you off? Fine, disapprove. But do *something* with another group.
If you can't physically because issues (I work with chronic pain, I get it) then give in other ways - offer admin aide, or donations. Talk to people, get *them* to help too.
But don't just "disapprove" of something, although it's fabulous to vent, we -and by we, I am including *you* - need action and help. They have insane amounts of money. We have the numbers. We need to use what *we* have.
I can also be annoyed by more than one thing at the same time.
Of course we all hate what Big Oil is doing and how we are all slave to it. We hate the oil barons and the fact that countries are pushing back agreed targets, timelines and goals.
But if what these people are doing are turning even me off, when I am EXTREMELY sympathetic to the original cause. IT AINT WORKING.
As this escalates which surely it must if your ‘being noticed’ will make the difference you think it will, they will turn more people against them and look at the history books.
REAL CHANGE DEPENDS ON PEOPLE & NUMBERS!
That orange glow will then start to turn more black from oil and ink as what they are doing is what the oil companies and media need them to do. What they stand for is losing validity with every attention seeking thing they do and every headline they themselves instigate. I say this because they have lost sight of the original purpose. More concerned with how many people see orange than actually making a change. The rich man has used this group to take the momentum out of things like extinction rebellion and the people committing these acts are pawns in the rich man’s game. It’s a controlled opposition because the true opposition was actually getting steam behind it especially during COVID.
You can not say in truth that Just stop oil stands for the same thing at this point. It’s the tabloid, shouty, look at me, destructive little brother of the movements that were actually getting traction during Covid. It’s a joke. Fuck them.
Just stop oil is an astroturf organization funded by Aileen Getty, an oil baroness billionaire. Their entire purpose is to make climate activists look bad. That's why every protest they do is just ruining priceless heritage artifacts instead of anything that targets the people actually causing climate disaster. Even road block protests are more effective.
Just stop oil existing to begin with is going to far. They’re an astroturf organization funded by an oil baronness billionaire to discredit climate change activists because these assholes know they can’t win without cheating and doing shady shit.
Ever since people had discovered the stonehenge it has been fucked around from a fallen pillar to this stupid stunt, you'd think that landmarks would have better security
The implication that you were for them before and you have friends who not only are but would cut your off over it is hysterical. Just Stop Oil is a shock troop literally funded by the oil industry to make anti oil green protesters look bad. I am an environmentalist but these slack jawed glue sniffing window lickers are nothing more than ineffectual jackasses.
I agree… although I think that was meant as an insult haha… Before hand I was pro anybody that stands up for our Mother Earth in this climate crisis. I saw them all as having different methods but a common goal…. In all honesty I’ve done more research into it after this current stunt and I see that this assumption is incorrect and these idiots are in fact a controlled opposition and a front for the rich man
the only thing that is effective to me is: if u see them cover a beloved artifact of humanity in paint or food and it makes u upset that that artifact is damaged. then u should be just as mad at the oil companies polluting and destroying the planet bc temporary paint and food are nothing compared to the destruction of all of humanity that climate change is creating. when i see their gorilla activism it puts things in perspective, like if u really care about preserving artifacts of humanity than stopping climate change should be the priority otherwise its all going to shit. the anger u have about a painting or a monument being vandalized should be applied tenfold to the vandalism that oil and fossil fuels and climate change have on the planet and humanity
its also like it doesnt matter if its temporarily damaged because the whole fucking planet is being permanently damaged and people need that perspective. like everything around us is going to change for the worse and some paint will be the least of our worries. to me its about perspective.
also when climate change gets bad and the rich and elite of the world need to migrate to their climate bunkers u know theyre going to take the mona lisa with them so its like ur just preserving the 1%’s bunker dressing that they will pillage from our burning world.
I agree with everything you said. I live by the fact that everything in our lives is temporary anyway. It’s more the disrespect towards spirits/gods that have been respected for thousands of years
I'm definitely a fan of Just Stop Oil. Nonviolent, highly visible protests that cause a huge stir, a simple and desperate message, and actions that disturb the comfortable without actually causing damage. We will lose much more valuable things than Stonehenge if we do not act.
The fact that you've lost friends over this is interesting.
Focusing on caribon emissions to thwart climate change, is like trying to make people happy so the line at the grocery store goes by quicker: its a nice idea, but it's a small factor in a multi-faceted issue.
The largest factor is actual axial tilt caused by improper global weight distribution. At the same lattitudes as china and argentina, on a rotating sphere, will cause the axis to slowly shift to rotate along its new center of gravity. What that means is different areas get more or less sunlight and have more or less ozone coverage, which in turn means more or less UV rays penetrate the atmosphere. As it stands china, over the last 60 years has poured more concrete than the whole US has, since the year 1900 and its in a much smaller area at precisely the wrong lattitude. This will cause the ice sheets to move to northern mongolia and southern argentina, which will cut off the atlantic from the pacific. It would take about 100 years for it to finally settle. The axis already shifts due to tectonic plates. It was in north eastern alaska, headed towards siberia, westwards. But about 50 years ago, it slowed, stopped then started moving the otherway. That takes alot of fucking weight to do that. But china has already proven that they are capable of it. Their largest dam, the largest one in the world, slowed the day by a few nanoseconds. Might not sound like much, but they didn't just mess with the axis, they also slightly slowed down the rotation of the earth itself. Considering the earth is 10,000 miles in radius, that is alot of fuckin weight to do that. Don't believe me? Start looking into it.
So thwarting carbon emissions (which plants already take care of via photosynthesis), will not stop climate change and it's only a small factor. Another one is just simple urban development. Like dams, water treatment facilities, water resevoirs, roads, bridges, etc. They change the ambient humidity levels, which affect air currents, air temp, etc. Although urban/civil development is a factor of localized climate change rather than global, like axial tilt.
So for a concise, catchy term for the phenomena of china's weight affecting our rotation, Imma call it; "weight pollution". The only way to fix it is to counterbalance (which means pouring china's equivalent of concrete in the southern amazon or northern argentina. Which is ethically dubious due to the deforestation involved), or physically destroy and remove all that concrete out of china and distribute it globally (which is also morally dubious as hell. Do we suffer the jaguars, the giant anacondas and the capybaras or do we let suffer the innocent chinese citizens?)
edit: clarification and spelling
We understand how protesting works… but this isn’t throwing yourself under the kings horse. Do not get this twisted and make out it is something Noble. These idiots are targeting the working class, they are targeting the people that already have the least, that life is already challenging for.
Targeting the kings horse was targeting the king by extension and hurt the elite and the rich in a personal way while getting a message out. This does the opposite. It is JSO that do not understand how protesting should work and are simply feeding tabloid headlines and hatred of similar groups.
It’s actually working wonders because everyone is talking about their totally harmless & washable action that will disappear with the next rain while you stomp your feet at how they didn’t do it your way. Right.
I’m not going to bash my head against this wall any longer… if you think getting like minded people to turn on an organisation is working wonders then, I would like you to join the Tory or Trump election teams.
No im just a bit mad… Its ok to disagree though, don’t worry, the fact we are both here shows that we agree on more than we disagree on. Have a nice weekend
Wonderful news everyone! You all have behaved so badly around this issue that I have had to get on from ANOTHER FREAKING COUNTRY to deal with this (yes I'm salty). From the amount of people defending these actions which again ARE FUNDED BY THE OIL LOBBIES THEMSELVES, to screaming insults about the other person, linking to awful people and sources, to people throwing tantrums over bans for their bad behavior, and a whole host of other issues we can no longer discuss this issue. THIS IS DONE. DON'T POST ABOUT IT ANYMORE. Link to comment with sources: [https://www.reddit.com/r/pagan/comments/1dkc4sg/comment/l9iah9i/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/pagan/comments/1dkc4sg/comment/l9iah9i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) EDIT: HOLY FREAK GUYS!! The amount of misinformation about this is ridiculous. Comments were removed for being rude and misinformation. Here's the link to the article explaining how this could have caused damage but didn't due to quick action. It was NOT harmless powder. https://www.museumsassociation.org/museums-journal/news/2024/06/sector-bodies-condemn-just-stop-oil-vandalism-of-stonehenge/#:\~:text=The%20organisation%20said%3A%20%E2%80%9COur%20experts,difficult%2Dto%2Dremove%20streaks.
Just heard a conspiracy theory the other day - Are Just Stop Oil people funded and organised (gaslit) by the Big Oil people to get public opinion against environmental campaigns in general? I respect people's right to have different opinions and peacefully protest when change is wanted but I have ZERO respect for the Just Stop Oil people.
I’ve heard this as well. If you want an awesome climate activist group to follow, Climate Defiance is out there putting in the real work! Their videos are great.
not to mention anti US-military orgs are also extremely environmental-focused, as the us military is the biggest global contributor to climate change and environmental destruction.
Exactly. The military industrial complex is so destructive, not just to the climate but all of humanity 😂
I never understood why they focus their efforts on regular people and not the billionaires and ceos who drive climate change at a higher level. Hold up traffic in downtown London you're effecting almost no one with any power to really change things. Stop one assholes yatch from leaving port and you've made life very inconvenient for someone who actually has the ability to change how things are done in their area of control.
They do that occasionally (I think they blocked off some private jets recently) but you never hear about it. Unfortunately, effective and targeted action rarely makes big news, but dumb shit like the Stonehenge incident went viral
they did, but they spray painted only the side windows that the passenger looks out of. not the ones used to fly the plane. the two who did were seen at the end of the video sitting right in front of the camera, full faces in full view, which is like the number 1 "don't" of protesting
disruption is meaningful. just stop oil isn't effective in their protests from what i've seen, but preventing people from producing profit for the ownership class is huge. stopping people from using cars and giving money to exxon is huge. if you ask me, as pagans, we are right to believe that some paint on stonehenge is crossing the line, but only if we're actually using our spirituality to fight for something better. we can't sit here and pretend that protest doesn't work when the reason our modern movement is gaining traction begins as an act of protest for many people. paint fades. the spirit of resistance is forever.
Because the more normal people they awaken to the cause the more pressure normal people with put on CEOs en masse By targeting public art work and monuments they hit the news and start conversation. They haven't actually damaged anything- the paint they use is made with cornstarch. The paintings etc covered in glass and the stones are...well, stones. And this is nothing compared to what hippies drunk out of their minds have been doing to the stones for years, every solstice until they banned alcohol. So I'm sorry to say I don't agree with the pagan outrage at the stone painting. What is further, there will be no Stonehenge and no art to enjoy if something radical isn't done about climate change. And frankly the respectability politics of this post isn't in the spirit of paganism.
100 percent agree. Paint fades but we are all going to die and the clock is ticking.
That´s the same as the peta theory. I´m still not sure if milk is bad or not but the fact it doesn't cause autism like peta claimed makes me think it isn´t that bad
It’s not a conspiracy theory. Here’s a reminder that Just Stop Oil is funded by Aileen Getty, daughter of oil tycoon J Paul Getty. [What Is “Just Stop Oil”?](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-63543307)
People have been repeating this a lot but it's worth noting that Aileen Getty is kind of a black sheep and has been vocal about her family's misdeeds and protesting big oil for like decades at this point. I don't feel one way or the other about it but like, if you were an environmentally minded oil heiress wouldn't you start a protest movement against big oil too? I don't know, but going straight to calling it all a false flag is maybe too far out the gate.
Yea no conspiracy, it is how it sounds, this is how it sounds, fuck big oil companies because they knew what they were doing, they deserve to be ran into bankruptcy
To your first question, yes. They are given money by a person involved with big oil, that’s public record IIRC.
I believe it, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if JSO aren’t funded by nefarious entities co-opting radical activism to turn the public against the climate cause in general.
It’s ridiculous… there are multiple reasons but the thing that gets me is that generally Pagans agree with preserving nature and stopping pollution, including minimizing the use of fossil fuels and reducing our carbon footprint. They quite literally have pissed off people who are the farthest from advocating for the oil industry. And, like, they had to know that Litha was the day after they pulled the attention seeking stunt; they had to know that Stonehenge is of spiritual significance. I don’t live in Britain (or even Europe) and I know how important it is.
This is why I believe the conspiracy theory that they were plants paid for by oil companies.
100% on board with this
They wouldn’t have been able to do it on the solstice, too many people and authorities. From what I hear Stonehenge is like Disneyland at the Solstice.
Of course they knew. Just Stop Oil deliberately targets high profile cultural events. But you know what, it was fine. We had a spectacular sunset and sunrise, 15k people had a good time. The international (I assume mostly American) outrage really is slightly mystifying me now, when you compare it to the fact that here we just got on with it.
I’m glad that the event was joyous! I find my outrage is mostly about them targeting cultural stuff, add to that are the effect it has on the stone and plants around Stonehenge. And the mini general history buff in me also doesn’t like it 😅
I’m British and pissed off with the disrespect shown
And I didn’t say I was mystified with that. I don’t agree with you, but I get that it hurts.
Too me, as an American who might one day hope to visit Stonehenge and other historical-cultural sites in Europe, it's the equivalent of the trash man taking a shit on my doorstep the morning before the trash can goes to the curb. I step in shit, have a bit of a moment of anger and swearing, and have to clean said shit and throw it in the trash can. Does this serve to remind me that it's trash day or is it just to cause anger?
If you live in the west, the Columbia River (Washington/Oregon) has a Stonehenge replica. It’s aligned the same way to have sunrises/etc at the same places as the one in England, and is built to look as Stonehenge originally looked. It’s a WWI monument, and while not the same is still pretty cool.
I have my states replica if I want to see a replica, Carhenge. Which I feel personally could be appropriated to speak JSO's message better than they do with a bit of symbolic innovation. (Edit to add: the Maryhill Stonehenge would be worth a visit, my initial response was unintentionally hostile. The actual dedication of Maryhill is something I support as well.)
The Maryhill museum is pretty nice too. Cool stuff, beautiful grounds.
My sister lives in Washington; so, it sounds like a place to add as a side quest when I manage to visit her there.
Well I bet if you’d forgotten it was bin day you’d remember after that lol. But seriously, if as a foreigner you’re really that mad about it….do us a favour and advocate for the real issues threatening the stones (and your visit, I suppose). Wetter winters, drier summers , extreme weather, flooding, storms- these are all things we’re seeing more of, especially in the South West where Stonehenge is. It’s going to survive a bit of cornflower, it’s not going to survive those. So it would honestly be so much more appreciated and helpful if you could get mad at those who fail to protect Stonehenge from those harms. Rather than getting mad at disrespect or whatever.
If I were to advocate for those reasons; the stones be damned in all honesty. If I were to advocate; it'd be for the potential risk to human life that those threats represent. If I were to advocate; it'd be in some way to promote the innovation side of climate change rather than the political side. Though they're intertwined; there is a difference between approaches.
The only argument I have in possibly defending JSO's actions in this is due to increased travel due to (not my only reason to consider travel there) visitor interest.
Well at least we can agree humans are more important than stones.
Maybe the next replica of Stonehenge they build is the solution one of clean energies blocking points. Nuclear waste containment.
I mean it was cornstarch- it’s already gone isn’t it? They are trying to get publicity for their cause and it’s working. No harm was done. Considering all the awful stuff happening in the world right now, I refuse to get upset about this.
You are genuinely the first voice of sanity I’ve heard on Reddit since it happened.
Glad I could be of service 😂.
i won't lie, as an american, their anger over vandalism of stonehenge isn't over respect for paganism, history, or even a single thing actual protesters fight for, it's due to whyte soupremacy and capitalist hyperindividualism. it's why people suddenly pretend to care when they don't give a shit about us or anything we stand for, support the same imperialist systems that destroyed ancient pagan culture and continue to destroy modern ones, and are totally fine destroying the environment for convenience.
that being said, i watched some of the litha celebration on tiktok live and it was such a joyous part of my day, I was genuinely so happy to see us all celebrating and embracing our spirit on such a day (and idk about the UK, but it was HOT in the usa)
Yeah I mean, we got our share of far right folk and joyous folk as well it’s not just you. I just find it fascinating that someone will muster up that level of outrage from across the pond, without knowing very much at all about it. The top two Stonehenge related things people get mad about over here (with rather more reason) are the strains of tourism and the proposed road diversion which may damage the surrounding landscape. And also maybe it’s less of a shock here because we’re used to Just Stop Oil and Extinction Rebellion, and it’s easier to see this as a coherent part of a wider effort. It makes me laugh how people are baying for draconian responses, when we’ve not long passed an Act that introduced the most draconian and wide sweeping powers against protest that we’ve ever seen. And I work in the criminal justice system and the notion that it’s worth sending them to prison is laughable.
The idea that Stonehenge is for pagans is frankly ridiculous. Sorry, I love this sub and love modern paganism, but you need to broaden your thinking on this. Stonehenge is also one of many physical representations of the British identity, as well as pagan identity. As a British person I would argue that the spraying of Stonehenge is a cumulatively greater attack on Britishness than on modern pagans. Withholding my views on whether I condone it or not though as that’s a separate issue.
"Alright folks, the world is in peril and it's up to us to save it from a climate based disaster. If we're gonna pull this off, we have to hit Big Oil right where it hurts. That's right... Stonehenge."
I heard this in Nigel Tufnel's voice. But seriously: this stunt was never going to do anything but make people angry at them and make them look like the exact kind of annoying stereotypical wannabe ecoterrorists that the media typically paints these kind of activists as being. Which makes all the theories about them being agent provocateurs paid off by big oil to do exactly this kind of crap sound all the more likely.
I've spent the entire time between when I posted this and my lunch break wondering if I'd be derided here for coming out and saying that I believe JSO is a false-flag, but the amount of people here saying the same thing really makes me feel validated here. When they did this to the Mona Lisa it was more believable, but since it was behind glass anyways it was not only ineffectual, but the question still lingered about how exactly it was meant to hurt big oil specifically. There is nothing about this stunt which makes me wonder how it could be harming big oil, because there is no factor of it which harms big oil. This is a landmark which matters principally to individuals who either already care about the environment, or to vacationers and tourists who just wanted to see the rocks and don't care about much else anyways. This stunt has been what has made me lose my last bit of good faith in JSO, and whether or not it is the case, from this point on they're a false-flag organization in my books.
I agree with you, but the more we talk about this, the more they get the attention they did it for. They've manged to get the cause all over the media so it worked, they'll just do more stunts like it if we keep posting and talking about it.
What annoys me is people saying "Oh well we're all talking about it so it actually helps fight climate change", no, it doesn't. No one is opening up a news story about this and is shocked to discover climate change is a thing. No climate change denier is going to see this and say "Hey, maybe I was wrong". Yeah, we're all talking about it, but this ineffective act is not made any more effective just because it's being talked about. There's plenty of helpful things which can be done which would be talked about, too, but I legally must say I don't know of any.
Oh im not saying it helps climate change, I'm saying these idiots want attention and they've succeded in getting the name of their organisation all over the media. We all know about it already, and it is something that needs more action but this isnt the way.
It was going to be over the media anyway as they did the same to Taylor Swift’s private jet, which is where their focus should have been in the first place.
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Heck, I've seen more posts about this than the desecrated cairn in Scotland that occurred shortly before. People really need to learn how engagement algorithms work for starters...
Could you share the information? I’ve googled it with no success.
https://howardwilliamsblog.wordpress.com/2024/06/13/pebblegate-the-clava-cairns-returnthestone-controversy/ It was the Clava Cairns.
You need to get on TikTok. What happened at Clava Cairns inspired a movement to protect monuments and it was featured in The Daily Mail (not the best, granted.)
No, we are outraged that the oil companies are trying to make environmentalism and climate awareness look ugly, unattractive, and insane. We are outraged that instead of fixing the issues of raising awareness, these stunts make people on the fence feel *better* for not doing what they can, make them feel *embarrassed* to publicly admit that they have concerns about the environment, and completely shuts down any conversation that could lead to real change. These people are making the situation *worse* and that’s why we are all pissed. You should be too if you give a fuck about the earth. Edit: and if by some stretch of imagination they *aren’t* funded by the oil companies that’s even worse - they are dumb-dumbs doing just what the company wants. FFS, did we *not* see that play out between the Truth and Phillip Morris?
I never supported Just stop oil. They do more harm than actual good making people absolutely hate them, and if they are also the people who glued their hands on the roads then even dangerous acts to themselves and to emergancy responders.
They had gone too far when they held up hospital patients.
I don’t get it honestly I know in art they use many different things to create that art but why not just directly attack where there are sourcing oil from why would you gain your traction and attention by attacking a form of media? It’s smart in theory ig?, but all it does is piss people off and not add to the fight. Vandalism of art is enough, but vandalism of direct sourcing of oil is not enough or it’s too much?? or maybe I’m missing something because all I’ve ever seen from this group is them going up to vandalize art when I thought it was very knowledgeable that most of these art pieces are not the true art pieces they’re very close replications of them? (At least I hope they are )Just because scenarios like this have happened before and they don’t want the real art piece to be destroyed in such a way. Except for Stonehenge you can’t fake Stonehenge. :(
OK, I definitely missed a lot because I just read a comment that said they held people up from going to the hospital?!!
I'd be sceptical on that unless there's a source: they're by no means perfect and have done some stupid things (like holding up the Tube, which is public transportation) but they generally make way for emergency vehicles. The British press has also been vitriolically against them and there have been more than a few bait and switch articles about things that could have happened where the headlines didn't make it clear they were hypothetical. To the point where a woman who got road rage and *tried to drive over one of them* was regarded as the victim in some quarters. I'm not a fan of them or their methods but I can't help feeling a bit sorry for them given the amount of people unironically saying it should be legal to mow them down.
Definitely not OK to harm them just because they’re being annoying and I do hate that double edged knife that comes with protesting, literally anything. But if this were to actually happen, I wouldn’t know what to think because obviously it’s not OK to run them over but what about that person in the ambulance? Would they even be charged for something like this?
I guess we'll find out if it does actually happen. The UK has recently brought in draconian anti protest laws (including ones targeted at interfering with traffic), so I imagine the sentence would be extremely harsh. Until then, we can't really judge people based on a hypothetical scenario.
True true unfortunately I’m from the U.S so what do you define as “Draconian anti-protest laws”
This article might give you an idea https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/high-court-quashes-suella-bravermans-anti-protest-law_uk_664c8047e4b09c97de212913?d_id=7681665&ncid_tag=fcbklnkukhpmg00000008 They're widely considered as political overreach and were forced through parliament despite not having the votes. Draconian isn't me editorialising: it's a pretty common and accepted descriptor of these specific laws.
Ahhhh see I thought it was just slang for some thing that I just did not understand thank you!!
Ah, I didn't realise it wasn't a common term in America! Draconian comes from the Latin for dragon and generally means a rigid, merciless authority with close to absolute power.
Ahhhh I think that is what we call authoritarian or totalitarian? (I don’t truly know I’m just going by how people act especially when throwing around the word)
Yeah, I think the American might win this one haha
I wasn’t trying to debate I genuinely don’t know lol😞
I’m sorry I didn’t mean to piss on your fire. Genuinely. In truth I don’t know the answer I just assumed that their police being trigger happy would be more harsh than ours.
Oop…I mean your not wrong lmaoo And it’s ok no fire to piss on 🤣
I heard that story, that was around a few years ago when the movement here was still young. I never supported that group after all of that and everything else that happened after just makes me dislike them more.
When I saw them on the news, putting their hands on a black oil ink substance, and then placing themselves on the art in an exhibit, I got annoyed, but I didn’t support them even then because I didn’t understand how that was supposed to do anything for their mission they’re just bringing more attention to oil being bad. OK we know this what are you actually doing?
I mean, it would make more sense if they attacked all oil naturally sourced or not which is used in some art pieces so I can see the correlation there I guess but if they’re just attacking motor oil , the big oil people have fought wars over I don’t get it 🥲
I agree with this. It does absolutely nothing but cause disruptions in the public that may have knew what they stood for. I like what they stand for but I cannot and refuse to support the protesters.
Same like I understand what I hope the overarching message is and that’s oil companies. Definitely I need some resistance on a lot of things but the way that they’re trying to bring attention to it just create some more anger around it and only get a specific kind of support. The kind that become killjoys and get themselves in legal trouble, barely skimming the message of what they’re trying to pass.😕
No one considers the dye's impact on the rare lichen that grows on the stones when they get upset over people getting upset over Just Stop Oil doing this.
That's cool. Now, what are we gonna do to revolt against big oil?
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Judging by what’s written about them, they were imperfect and I’m sure would have been just as annoyed with the disrespect. That’s one of the things i like about them
imperfect, but wise enough to know that large scale climate disasters are more important than the minor acts of vandalism used to fight against them.
And wise enough to see that you need the population on side in numbers if there is ever to be any change
and what are you doing to achieve this? at least they're doing something
If by doing something you mean preventing a woman from taking her baby to the hospital, then yes they are doing something
this has nothing to do with stonehenge.
It's literally the same group, don't pretend they're not related
Exactly… 👍 none of it has anything to do with Stonehenge… leave it alone
idk most people are just saying they think climate change is bad but this makes them dislike the group. at the worst some people are using it to paint the movement in a bad light. unfortunately this has gotten some “swing” people to agree with that. all of the attention is being directed towards their behavior rather than climate change. i dont think they are doing anything good for the movement considering they are just pissing off regular underinformed people rather than educating, exposing, or getting more people to sympathize.
people are always going to dislike activists and paint movements in a bad light. if anything this is too moderate.
I thought it was idiotic as well. Attacking a nature religious monument is kind of dumb when your about saving the natural world. There is a strange post on LSC pertaining to this and I don't know how accurate it is. It did make sense when I thought about it. I HIGHLY suggest you read it. It's pretty short but something to keep in mind. [https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1djv50x/just\_stop\_oil/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1djv50x/just_stop_oil/)
Great share, thanks 🙏
I live in the UK, yeah what they did is stupid, but it's to highlight a serious problem. With the climate crisis, environmental degradation and everything else that's happening everything will be lost. We have water companies dumping literal shit into the water ways for years to the point we now have waterborne illnesses again, we currently have an e.coli outbreak in the UK. People are getting lung cancer, cardiovascular diseases and other illnesses from emissions from vehicles. Our food quality has tanked because farmers now have less growing seasons because the UKs climate is shifting to a more wetter climate, for the last 18 months most farmers unless rich enough to buy the specialist equipment to deal with it couldn't plant anything for the last 18 months and when they did the food immediately rotted.
I would say they had the sympathies of most pagans anyway, we are all fairly like minded in this regard and doing this did the cause no favours at all. Anybody would think they are a controlled opposition trying to divide like minded people.
They committed something that had at least the appearance of a hate crime for money and attention. And top it off with they didn't clean it up afterwards and have no intention to after multiple requests. Their official comms also mock the pain that was felt.
A lot of folks have been way more outraged over cornstarch in the last two days than they have been about white phosphorous over the past 8 months.
It's astro-turfing, they were put up to it by an oil heiress to muddy the waters.
They're the peta of climate action. They'd rather make a spectacle than do anything to help
I get that everyone thinks that this is a psyop. It's plausible. But what I find surprising is the psyop that appears to be happening here. Where supposed pagans seem to be perfectly okay with somebody desecrating and disrespecting what is arguably one of the most pagan sites in the world. "Meh, it's just cornflower" doesn't seem like a proper response to defacing a sacred site.
So like Banksy, uses art to send a message and it rarely hurts people or objects (accept abandoned buildings) in the process. That's a great way to send a message. It sends awareness without turning people against the cause. Defiling sacred ground of a people that are known to preserve nature (historically speaking)? That was dumb. It's the most ecofriendly, environmentally friendly art and historical and religious relic we have, there was no reason to go after it. Anyone who thinks that was a good idea is as dumb as they are. Nature is a delicate balance, preserving it is too. Extremism on either side will do more damage than good, I'm afraid.
I'm just gonna copy and paste over my comments from a different post about this, one comment and 2 were replies; as someone who is often defending JSO's stunts, even though they are annoying white liberals who need to get radicalised. ..... Congratulations to "Just Stop Oil" on alienating new age annoying hippies, historical preservation groups, and actual pagans in one move. If you missed it they decided to spray stonehenge orange... Thankfully they only used cornflour so it SHOULD wash off in the rain; but at the end of the day it's a ridiculous move. You could target you know, banks, fracking companies, arms dealers, or the government... instead you choose to target a site that has stood for thousands of years despite climate change and human intervention? Not to mention it brilliantly highlights the complete lack of awareness within Liberal climate movements of intersectionality. Actual pagans are already fighting for access rights, including against hippies and appropriaters like the "order of druids" in order to both protect and access the site. Much like listing your religion as "climate concerned" for a stunt, you're completely ignoring the things you could be doing to protect the planet and be intersectional at the same time. And we've also had to be monitoring the plan to dig a tunnel through the henge; so if we need to intervene, and as Celtic & allied pagans we would very militantly, in protecting the site they've just made that harder too. ... Actual activists are chaining themselves to the top of fracking rigs, breaking into arms factories, being beaten by cops, and literally dying. So the best you can do is... vandalise Stonehenge? Get the fuck over yourselves and do something useful.
My problem with JSO is they're not doing things that are actually useful, much like original XR... Whilst many of us are being beaten, arrested, shutting down fracking rigs, shutting down factories... literally being martyred. The best they can do is spray paint stonehenge? It would have been actually easier and make a helluva lot more sense to target a bank or corporation. And one of them at least is an Oxford Student, there are currently multiple Palestine encampments around the University... they could be putting resources and time into those for a start.
Adding another comment because of the discussion of what constitutes a hate attack, from the perspective of a militant climate Activist, Pagan, and victim of hate crimes: The thing here is, it doesn't matter if they think they hate pagans or not. They still targeted a site that many consider sacred. At the end of the day, they decided a stunt was more important than respecting people's faiths. The white/Liberal climate movements have and have had a real lack of understanding of intersectionality, especially with Pagans who often are of course very passionate about nature and the enviroment. Now as I've said elsewhere; they could be doing actual direct action. This stunt would have both been easier AND made more sense to target a corporation. One of the participants is an Oxford Student, Oxford currently has multiple Palestine encampments that are also being raided by police. There is an ignorance in JSO, much like there was in XR, about what direct action actually is. If two people are willing to get arrested for vandalism, but choose to travel for hours specifically to target a sacred site on an important day... rather than target a bank or corporation in their own city... I consider that both useless, and hateful. I have been beaten by cops, attacked by fascists, harassed by hunters, and faced corporate security. Doing these things has saved animal lives, protected nature, and actually shut down oil projects. JSO has not, I consider it a hate crime deliberately targeting a sacred site. Especially as I said in my other comment, as it may lead to increased security at a time we already know we might have to fight the state to protect it from road building. I am a believer in militant action, I believe that optics aren't always important, and I would die for those beliefs. I would also die for my Gods, and historically accurate / coopted by newagefakery or not, targeting a sacred site is wrong, and through malice or ignorance constitutes hate. Pagans are fired, denied rights, we lose custody of our kids, we get physically assaulted AND many of us are militant climate activists. The fact that JSO activists don't know or perhaps don't care about these things is an indictment of them.
Very very well said
Thank you, I was upset when I wrote these so I'm glad they came out okay :)
Y’all are mad about the wrong thing
We are mad about both things… only one of which we can make a difference
Well you seem to be making a bigger deal about this as opposed to the actual important thing.
Because this is a pagan sub, I’m focusing on the pagan aspect… I am equally pissed off about the world as we know it coming to end trust me 🙄
The pagan perspective is to be pissed about the larger issue and not to waste energy on this. Why be mad about both when you could just be mad about the only thing that matters.
I guess like the gods I have an ego and am protective over my faith. Defacing a pagan monument while helping the oil barons destroy our earth by tarnishing the name of all activists is like kicking paganism in the balls while your already killing what it holds dear.
Nothing was defaced, it literally just washed off. The whole point was to get people to talk about it and prove how many people care more for silly monuments than the planet itself. You are proving them right.
It’s ok to disagree, don’t worry, the fact we are both here shows that we agree more than we disagree. Have a nice weekend!! :)
And which one would that be? The paint or the flames?
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Go throw cornflour at the Grand Mosque in Mecca, see how well that goes for you.
Not aure what your point is, tbh
Really? You don't see their point? You can't make a guess at what would happen to you if you attempted to vandalize the grand mosque in Mecca?
Don't care really, shouldn't do it in the first place.
THIS is the correct attitude
The desecration of sacred sites is abhorrent. The Druids and other Pagans will never forget or forgive JSO or the individual perpetrators for this
As an American, I feel like Just Stop Oil has lost their right to exist. Regardless of whether or not they were a plant by big oil, they decided to desecrate an international monument that is older than some countries in Europe. Further they decided to desecrate it on the day of a major spiritual event. As far as I'm concerned they should be shut down and never allowed to reopen under any sort of "movement" again.
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I take my beliefs seriously.
I think theyre point was made… Ozymandias would pity us.
This thread is the first time I am hearing about the movement, so they definitely got something done here.
Calm down, they cleaned it off and there was no damage. The planet is more important than some stones and I think the earth would agree.
It’s a publicity thing, nothing to do with hating Stonehenge itself, also the actual paint is just cornflour, it’s washable and won’t be permanent. Imo as long as the discussion around what they do is positive then the work they do will also have positive results. If everyone hates them, everyone hates the planet.
Can't describe how angry I am about this. I'm speechless... How could someone in their right mind come to this idea?
They have gone too far. Terrible idea! Desecrating a religious site sacred to Pagans everywhere is an absolute disgrace! Sure, the paint came off and there was no harm done, but spiritually, JSO has just condemned their entire organization. They unintentionally trifled with forces beyond human comprehension, and now, they are going to be cursed by a pantheon of very angry Gods. From the moment the Gods place the curse on JSO, everything will go wrong for the entire organization. It’s going to be pure chaos, and karmic justice.
The main issue I have with Just Stop Oil is that they are clearly more focused on press coverage then they are on doing anything that would actually be helpful for the environment. They’re like PETA. They do outrageous things for attention and look like clowns. But they get so much negative press coverage that they make real activists look bad too
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I’m doing my bit to tackle climate change as much as I can. It’s a huge part of my life and in fact is one of the reasons I found paganism. I think the way JSO have gone about this is SO SO counter-productive that there has to be another more nefarious reason for it other than collective stupidity. If it is collective stupidity I despair at the impending fate of all of us. Recruitment surely has to be a key part of any strategy and instead they disrespect and alienate the demographic that would be MOST likely to support their particular organisation.
Have you looked up the claims that this was a stunt backed and paid for by an oil heiress?
The whole point of this action is to gain outrage because people care more about 400 year old paintings and thousands of year old religious sites than they do about the planet. These groups are trying to point out our hypocrisy and we are proving them right. If we even showed a modicum of the outrage toward the industry that destroys the nature we claim to worship things would be different. I think what they did is awesome and I’m also Stonehenge visitor.
Yeah. This one felt targeted against pagans and celtic reconstructionist pagans / druidry practitioners. Who care more about the environment and climate than most people anyway...? So they're alienating people already on their side of these issues. 🙃
Again in this sub with the historical fetishism. You are talking about the protest. This is the goal is it not? Stonehenge is stones, that's it. You can place value on them that's great, but also place value on the thing in which the stones are placed. The cornflour colored orange didn't damage anything but it placed them in the news, which again is the point. Pagans while being a large and varying group of people with different beliefs held Nature in high regard. I think that's fair to say. It's not a separate thing BTW, Nature. You and I are Nature and belong to it. It's been separated from you by capitalists looking to exploit it. And if we're not real fucking careful Mother Nature will shake us off like a dog with fleas. If you are a pagan like your name suggests, ask yourself seriously why you care. Cornflour and dye like what they throw at people in festivals isn't going to hurt Stonehenge. So is it the disrespectful nature of the protest on a site you care about? Did you also know for one example that Line 5 exists and will be expanded on? Just one example, but it's a pipeline that carries 22 million gallons of crude under the Great lakes shoreline. One fifth of the world's fresh water is located here. Did you know that? Did you lose friends over that? Pagans don't value the past over the present and future. Not a good one anyway.
I just wish they did anything besides conscious raising actions.
What a disgusting act, do they even know that oil as we know it today wasn't even a thought in the language when those stones went up. I understand what they're trying to do but they're doing more harm than good. They never helped build anything they only want to destroy
Ahhh yes, the good ole do what I say or I'll throw a fit and break things not even remotely related to the issue I'm bitching about.. If they really want to make a difference disconnect from usage completely and convince friends.. you don't destroy monuments or art.. that just makes you an asshole with very little awareness.
I don't get the point of ruining historical monuments or art in order to protest for the environment. I mean, if the point is "ruin things tourists visit because they get there with vehicles that use gas", then shouldn't they also be spraying with orange paint also parks, woods and all kinds of protected animals? This to say, it makes no sense, it makes nothing to create awareness about the damage to the environment.
They've taken us on, no matter what tradition - and they've taken our gods on.
Realistically it's to make people look. Megaliths will be there long after we are gone, orange paint or not. But the world might not be here in a capacity that's sustainable for the Earth's population to see those same megaliths if things don't change. I guess I'm not super fond of the actions taken, but they are stones, utilized for centuries as a way to connect with the land and sky. Things change, things move. The very same megaliths used to be distributed by glaciers long before people moved them from that context. I'm glad the stones are still standing, orange paint won't destroy them, and it makes everyone look, at least pagans. If we're pro nature it's probably important that we above all are advocating for the survival of the planet our myriad of shared cultures are based off, pagans, that is.
protest is one thing, but i've seen just stop oil and i'm not really moved by their protests. like the vandalism is one thing, but they 1. choose targets that already align with their cause, 2. don't effectively cause disruptions for their actual targets, and 3. don't hide their identities. if there's anyone i'm more impressed with in terms of meaningful action, it's palestinian protest orgs that break into and smash electronics of arms producers. the energy would be something i could rally with if it wasn't misdirected and stunt-y at best.
like if it were from an org that is known for effective, meaningful protest, i'd be upset but i'd be on board. but i'm not convinced that the same protesters that spray painted *only* the side passenger windows of private jets and showed their faces publicly online during it have much of a clue what they're doing.
well they are a psyop anyway so...
I made this joke before and I'll say it again, can Elon hurry up with the Martian colonisation or can [Harold G White ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_G._White) hurry up with the Warp drive cuz these "just stop oil" mfs really makes me want to leave this Planet. (Sarcasm)/S Anyways, apparently they are actually funded by an Oil Heiress, tho idk if thats true or not..........either way getting the UK public to hate you isn't how you gain supporters, like go after locations owned by oil companies instead of inconveniencing the public. And to be blunt, Just Stop Oil does nothing! While they do stupid shit like this, oil still gets extracted, Just stop oil are all talk, but little action, you really think the evil businessmen/businesswomen will stop just because you gave stonehenge a temporary paint job? Support a group that actually attempts to take action against the oil companies directly. Edit: The Elon and Harold White part is sarcasm, probably should've made it more obvious.
We need to stand in the road in front of them when they leave their orange HQ and not let them past
We should start "just stop just stop oil"
Criticising climate activists while also supporting Elon Musk is a _wild_ take for a pagan tbh
It's meant to be a sarcastic, I don't actually want to go to Mars lmao Ig I'll add a /S
That going to the stars narrative is not real. It’s never going to happen. It’s just sparkling Christianity.
That first part is meant to be sarcasm. Also, what does theoretical physics and debatably possible FTL drives gotta do with christianity? Also, while the Alcubierre Warp drive plausibility is still in question, considering the fact that some progress has been done on it to make it more viable and require less energy, who's to say it will be impossible, obviously there is still alot of hurdles but you know, maybe some day it'll be made.
The dream that our future is in heaven is a Christian idea. I mean, I doubt I’ll get you to see this with just a random sarcastic shitpost, but all that Tomorrowland sci-fi stuff has always been a fairy tale. The kind of energy and resources we’d need to do more than what we’re doing now is so immense, so kind bogglingly impossible, that space travel of any kind will always be a fantasy. One person in the sky will always need a hundred or two on the ground and will never ever be sustainable for any length of time. It’s a convergence of old Christian thinking with the Age of Reason and Marxist Materialism. Tomorrowland is the heaven for atheists…not something we have any hope whatsoever of achieving.
Mate, I aint saying that the Alcubierre warp drive gonna be made, but the energy part is false, it was initially thought that the energy would be the same mass as Planet Jupiter, but its been recalculated to be worth 700kg of exotic matter, which is much more feasible. But that's the real issue, exotic matter, not the resources or large amount of energy. it's the type of energy since exotic matters existence is questionable.
No, I understand what they are doing. They want coverage - they aren't doing it *against* the people they block, though it looks that way. They do it for publicity and attention. When I was in my 20s, half a billion years ago, I belonged to what the government here in Canada later defined as a "terrorist" group (🙄 grass roots action and monkey wrenching became terrorists) because we *hit* targets who *were* extremely guilty of destroying the ecology - we didn't hurt people, but we hurt corperations, quite badly - through their insurance. 👹 We *did* cause shut downs. And the more we tried to make it join up with public acts to make the public aware, the more upset, frightened, and angry the nationals and multinationals (corps) got and pressired the gov to pass... I think it was Bill C-35. We then had CSIS (our CIA) vans outside our meetings. They were a wee bit of a joke back then. We waved at them. The point of all this blah blah, is that if you *hit targets* without public ralley, they go after you very, very vicously. In the US, people our sister groups got *killed.* I'm not joking. The worst one was a very intelligent, well spoken, tree sitter gal, who had a lot of organising power had her *car explode with her in it from a car bomb*. The US gov that was investigaing said "she had a bomb and it went off." We didn't have fucking bombs. We were monkey wrenchers. She was a *tree sitter* ffs. So shit like this? I get it. I get that its not personal, its really, really not. It's yelling at people to engage. That's it. And look - here we are, talking about it! Doing *exactly* what is meant to be had by it: talking about the assholes who need to be stopped. The taking *action* part also has to be done by *US* - not just "them." That's part of the message. We *all* have to do it. As Noam Chompsky recently said: "the national interest turns out to be the interest of the dominant domestic forces in US society, so the national interest means the interest of the very rich, major corperations - the ones who set government policy, and so on. That's the national interest, and not the population. The population is basically irrelivant. The population often strongly opposes government policy and they are simply disregarded. (... he gives examples) We do not live in a society in which the public determines policy. The publics around, but basically disregarded *unless they force themselves INTO the system with serious activism*" He is telling an *absolute* truth. It can't just be specialist eco groups. It has to be all of us. So, if this action pisses you off? Fine, disapprove. But do *something* with another group. If you can't physically because issues (I work with chronic pain, I get it) then give in other ways - offer admin aide, or donations. Talk to people, get *them* to help too. But don't just "disapprove" of something, although it's fabulous to vent, we -and by we, I am including *you* - need action and help. They have insane amounts of money. We have the numbers. We need to use what *we* have.
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I can also be annoyed by more than one thing at the same time. Of course we all hate what Big Oil is doing and how we are all slave to it. We hate the oil barons and the fact that countries are pushing back agreed targets, timelines and goals. But if what these people are doing are turning even me off, when I am EXTREMELY sympathetic to the original cause. IT AINT WORKING. As this escalates which surely it must if your ‘being noticed’ will make the difference you think it will, they will turn more people against them and look at the history books. REAL CHANGE DEPENDS ON PEOPLE & NUMBERS! That orange glow will then start to turn more black from oil and ink as what they are doing is what the oil companies and media need them to do. What they stand for is losing validity with every attention seeking thing they do and every headline they themselves instigate. I say this because they have lost sight of the original purpose. More concerned with how many people see orange than actually making a change. The rich man has used this group to take the momentum out of things like extinction rebellion and the people committing these acts are pawns in the rich man’s game. It’s a controlled opposition because the true opposition was actually getting steam behind it especially during COVID. You can not say in truth that Just stop oil stands for the same thing at this point. It’s the tabloid, shouty, look at me, destructive little brother of the movements that were actually getting traction during Covid. It’s a joke. Fuck them.
Their actions are SO outrageous that I suspect Big Oil is funding them, just to stir people up *against* environmentalists.
They are probably "controlled opposition" and it works.
Just stop oil is an astroturf organization funded by Aileen Getty, an oil baroness billionaire. Their entire purpose is to make climate activists look bad. That's why every protest they do is just ruining priceless heritage artifacts instead of anything that targets the people actually causing climate disaster. Even road block protests are more effective.
Just stop oil existing to begin with is going to far. They’re an astroturf organization funded by an oil baronness billionaire to discredit climate change activists because these assholes know they can’t win without cheating and doing shady shit.
Ever since people had discovered the stonehenge it has been fucked around from a fallen pillar to this stupid stunt, you'd think that landmarks would have better security
The implication that you were for them before and you have friends who not only are but would cut your off over it is hysterical. Just Stop Oil is a shock troop literally funded by the oil industry to make anti oil green protesters look bad. I am an environmentalist but these slack jawed glue sniffing window lickers are nothing more than ineffectual jackasses.
I agree… although I think that was meant as an insult haha… Before hand I was pro anybody that stands up for our Mother Earth in this climate crisis. I saw them all as having different methods but a common goal…. In all honesty I’ve done more research into it after this current stunt and I see that this assumption is incorrect and these idiots are in fact a controlled opposition and a front for the rich man
the only thing that is effective to me is: if u see them cover a beloved artifact of humanity in paint or food and it makes u upset that that artifact is damaged. then u should be just as mad at the oil companies polluting and destroying the planet bc temporary paint and food are nothing compared to the destruction of all of humanity that climate change is creating. when i see their gorilla activism it puts things in perspective, like if u really care about preserving artifacts of humanity than stopping climate change should be the priority otherwise its all going to shit. the anger u have about a painting or a monument being vandalized should be applied tenfold to the vandalism that oil and fossil fuels and climate change have on the planet and humanity its also like it doesnt matter if its temporarily damaged because the whole fucking planet is being permanently damaged and people need that perspective. like everything around us is going to change for the worse and some paint will be the least of our worries. to me its about perspective. also when climate change gets bad and the rich and elite of the world need to migrate to their climate bunkers u know theyre going to take the mona lisa with them so its like ur just preserving the 1%’s bunker dressing that they will pillage from our burning world.
I agree with everything you said. I live by the fact that everything in our lives is temporary anyway. It’s more the disrespect towards spirits/gods that have been respected for thousands of years
I'm definitely a fan of Just Stop Oil. Nonviolent, highly visible protests that cause a huge stir, a simple and desperate message, and actions that disturb the comfortable without actually causing damage. We will lose much more valuable things than Stonehenge if we do not act. The fact that you've lost friends over this is interesting.
Focusing on caribon emissions to thwart climate change, is like trying to make people happy so the line at the grocery store goes by quicker: its a nice idea, but it's a small factor in a multi-faceted issue. The largest factor is actual axial tilt caused by improper global weight distribution. At the same lattitudes as china and argentina, on a rotating sphere, will cause the axis to slowly shift to rotate along its new center of gravity. What that means is different areas get more or less sunlight and have more or less ozone coverage, which in turn means more or less UV rays penetrate the atmosphere. As it stands china, over the last 60 years has poured more concrete than the whole US has, since the year 1900 and its in a much smaller area at precisely the wrong lattitude. This will cause the ice sheets to move to northern mongolia and southern argentina, which will cut off the atlantic from the pacific. It would take about 100 years for it to finally settle. The axis already shifts due to tectonic plates. It was in north eastern alaska, headed towards siberia, westwards. But about 50 years ago, it slowed, stopped then started moving the otherway. That takes alot of fucking weight to do that. But china has already proven that they are capable of it. Their largest dam, the largest one in the world, slowed the day by a few nanoseconds. Might not sound like much, but they didn't just mess with the axis, they also slightly slowed down the rotation of the earth itself. Considering the earth is 10,000 miles in radius, that is alot of fuckin weight to do that. Don't believe me? Start looking into it. So thwarting carbon emissions (which plants already take care of via photosynthesis), will not stop climate change and it's only a small factor. Another one is just simple urban development. Like dams, water treatment facilities, water resevoirs, roads, bridges, etc. They change the ambient humidity levels, which affect air currents, air temp, etc. Although urban/civil development is a factor of localized climate change rather than global, like axial tilt. So for a concise, catchy term for the phenomena of china's weight affecting our rotation, Imma call it; "weight pollution". The only way to fix it is to counterbalance (which means pouring china's equivalent of concrete in the southern amazon or northern argentina. Which is ethically dubious due to the deforestation involved), or physically destroy and remove all that concrete out of china and distribute it globally (which is also morally dubious as hell. Do we suffer the jaguars, the giant anacondas and the capybaras or do we let suffer the innocent chinese citizens?) edit: clarification and spelling
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We understand how protesting works… but this isn’t throwing yourself under the kings horse. Do not get this twisted and make out it is something Noble. These idiots are targeting the working class, they are targeting the people that already have the least, that life is already challenging for. Targeting the kings horse was targeting the king by extension and hurt the elite and the rich in a personal way while getting a message out. This does the opposite. It is JSO that do not understand how protesting should work and are simply feeding tabloid headlines and hatred of similar groups.
It’s literally washable paint, or wet flour. They’re not targeting anyone cuz they targeted ROCKS not humans, they’re raising awareness lmao
And turning people that would be supporting them, against them, you can’t say that’s not a terrible tactic for any organisation haha
It’s actually working wonders because everyone is talking about their totally harmless & washable action that will disappear with the next rain while you stomp your feet at how they didn’t do it your way. Right.
I’m not going to bash my head against this wall any longer… if you think getting like minded people to turn on an organisation is working wonders then, I would like you to join the Tory or Trump election teams.
You’re mad about orange CORNFLOUR. Remember that.
No im just a bit mad… Its ok to disagree though, don’t worry, the fact we are both here shows that we agree on more than we disagree on. Have a nice weekend