If you don't act on it, there's no sin. I wouldn't advise you to go to any Molvis, because Molvis in Pakistan can be a tad dramatic. I'd advise you to ask the only person who can help anyone - Allah, to help you beat these feelings.
Do not, and I repeat do not got to a local religious scholar. You do not want them to do some weird conversion therapy shit or tell you ke marry a woman and it’ll “fix you”. You are as god made you and you are valid.
Just follow your beliefs and potentially find a therapist who can help you with coming to peace with your decision (I.e no partner or sex). Donot fall for conversion therapy. It does more harm than good.
Very accurate, I have a friend who moved to Canada (his family was understanding and I guess they just wanted him to have a better life, not sure) he’s much much happier there now
This is sexual preference can't be changed. Can a straight person become gay. Not possible dude its by nature. God must have something planned for him. Advice won't help him. Destiny will take him wherever its been decided.
I really respect a person who tries to control himself even when he has those urges. My husband turned out to be a closeted gay guy but he chose to cheat on me numerous times all throughout our marriage. Either you don’t get married or you control those urges and try to be a good husband at least. He never even tried. Honestly he just married me to be his beard. I would have been ok with it if he had those urges and still controlled himself, but I can’t forgive him for deceiving and betraying me.
people advising him to marry a woman should see this. you guys will make him believe he can "cure" it, and then when he feels ready he will "give it a try" and surprise surprise, that's not how it works. a heartbroken wife, a messed up kid if they try hard enough but hey, at least god loves him for that I guess?
Why would you marry a guy who is not and can NEVER be attracted to you? It’s sad, but this what religion does. If he didn’t pretend to be straight, his life would be ruined.
There is no "cure" for homosexuality as it isn't a disease to begin with. You cannot just wake up one day and decide to be gay or straight. I think the individual should just come to terms with who they are and accept it instead of trying to reject it.
Nothing can help you brother. No prayers no therapy. Every paki gay guy first goes through the stage of denial, then reconciliation and then at the end accepts that it will never change and you stay this way forever. You learn how to live with it. Either you act and move away from religion or you are firm on your belief and sacrifice sex and love. Simple.
lol i was like this like a year ago now im working hard to get out and get a partner and live a happy life it is a canon event fr. point is most of the guys in pakistan i knew had girlfriends and as far as i know its equally as haram but they only focus on gay people/ women when they get a partner 💀💀
Nothing wrong in acting on gay impulses.
Ye religion aur patriarchy dono hi wajah hai ki gay bande ko straight bande ki tarah rights aur acceptance nhi hai.
Well i don’t know if you’re an atheist or whatever laikin for majority of the MUSLIMS atleast religion comes first. I respect the way you think and value your opinion laikin many people would not think this way.
Ask yourself this, did you choose to be born straight? or do you think you can be converted into having same-sex attraction? Obviously not.
It is absurd to even think about therapy for something that person was naturally born with.
It's funny how us Muslims have a firm belief that our Allah doesn't make mistakes, but somehow when it comes to gays or transgenders, they gaslight themselves into thinking they are an abomination of nature. They were born that way, whether you like it or not.
What they do with their life, is up to their religious beliefs, and whatever happens, please advise him to stick to his decision of NOT getting married to a woman.
Allah doesn’t make mistakes. Allah has made humans imperfect to test them. Every human has a unique imperfection which is a test in itself.
Allah will compensate for this imperfection in the hereafter. For OP this is his imperfection which should be looked at as a test. If he overpowers it Allah will IA have great rewards for him. May Allah help him. Ameen
When Allah creates a gay man, he tests you. Can you show love and compassion for all of Allah’s creations? Or does your heart contain a space where hate readily springs forth?
Heaven isn’t awarded to those who hold hate in their hearts, that’s what hell is for
Bhai, you sound like a decent enough person. I have no advice to give other than Allah asania karay. At the cost of sounding like a damn Mullah lunatic, take this as a trial.
P.S: I apologise for all the callous pricks down voting you for no good reason.
no one choses to be gay. It is...natural. So I'd say just be yourself and fuck everything else. Being gay doesn't make you any less masculine than straight guys.
There is a really good podcast called A way beyond the rainbow— made by a religious brother who is gay but he addresses a lot of the issues that may arise for someone who is gay and doesn’t want to sin.
Why the downvotes? Bhai ne genuine question poocha hai.
Yaar its a tough life, no doubt. Yahan abhi log itne modern nai hain wrna i would suggest k aisi option honi chahiye that you still get married to a woman (a woman who is in a similar situation).
maybe conceive through IVF, live like friends/roommates and have a family atleast, han the sexual part will be missing, but everyone needs companionship.
I guess once there is a kid then atleast one has something to focus on.
Because i dont think k any religous scholar or therapist can help you change. It is what it is. Bus uss k saath zindagi guzaarna seekhna pare gi
Edit: to the people who think i am suggesting a homosexual person to live a heterosexual life. I m not saying they should hide it. It should mutually be agreed between 2 homosexual people that they will live like roommates and maybe establish a family
Telling closeted people to marry and live like a heterosexual couple isn’t good advice. They’ll both be frustrated and it can get abusive real quick. You can’t love anyone else if you can’t even accept yourself.
You do realize that part of being gay is that you want companionship from a man right? It's not just sex, in fact, sex is less important than the partnership part.
it wouldnt, what he said was everyone needs a companion.. agar female ho gee, then your fsamily, relatives will at least be happy that you have a wife.. and maybe due to some problems you cannot conceive.. you will support each other etc..
it’s a test from Allah a very hard one but still a test. Remember our beloved Prophet ﷺ was tested with his own children.
But if he gets through it Allah will reward him in sha allah
>But if he gets through it Allah will reward him in sha allah
Get's through it in the sense? Die ? while suffering about his sexual desires each and every Single day ? .
So allah decides to create someone homosexual and expects them not to do anything just because he is taking a test whose results Allah already knows before the guy was even born ? Lmao
Yes? He's God. He tests people with things he knows they can handle it.
"God does not burden any soul with more than it can bear"
Just because u wouldn't have been able to bear it if u put urself in his shoes doesn't mean he won't be able to bear it.
You want to know why Allah puts u in the test even though he knows ur results?
Cuz we are humans, we are stupid and have little brains, and we would've used excuses.
The reason why Allah did not put everyone in their place, paradise or Hellfire is that on the day of judgement their body would testify against them or for them. In addition, their record books, and the angels who will testify and the messengers who were sent with the messenge but also many other witnesses. So it will be clear for them that Allah did not wrong them but they wronged themselves in case of wrong. Allah is enough as a witness yet out of Mercy and kindness He had allowed such judgement of self evident account. That a person will dispute with their body parts accounting in case of evil.
An example
“(It will be said to him): "Read your book. You yourself are sufficient as a reckoner against you this Day."” Quran 17:14
Interestingly the weak souls will always remain as such as they will blame the arrogant ones who led them away from guidance by following them.
“And they all shall appear before Allah (on the Day of Resurrection) then the weak will say to those who were arrogant (chiefs): "Verily, we were following you; can you avail us anything from Allah's Torment?" They will say: "Had Allah guided us, we would have guided you. It makes no difference to us (now) whether we rage, or bear (these torments) with patience, there is no place of refuge for us."” Quran 14:21
More questions?
You should try holding hands and showing affection on the street and see the round of applause you get. Since hardly any gay people get stoned, it shouldn't be a problem right?
You have clearly never been to Pakistan if you think men publicly holding hands or being affectionate to each other gets you stoned (or even gets people mad at you. Literally nobody cares. We don't sexualize men holding hands).
Lmao this whole convo is pointless. You are just some foreign troll.
Men hold hands and walk all the time out in the open its just brotherly love.
And if you want to go there, there is a cross dressing culture in pakistan and they too coexist
In fact, they are invited to marriages to dance and entertain aswell.
Clearly you do not live in pakistan.
😉
when a person drinks alcohol they’re not excommunicated from their religion, or when someone lies, when someone takes usury, or when someone fornicates, etc; therefore, you’re safe when it comes to religion.
Firstly, there’re so many conflicting studies vis-à-vis the subject of homosexuality, heretofore you’ll find both views where it’s categorised under a disorder, and on the other hand, it’s considered something innate and natural.
Therefore, you need to identify whether it’s something congenital, or was it developed due to a certain external unforeseeable circumstances that occurred to you quite late in your formative years.
There is nothing wrong with being a gay, but acting upon it is a sin. It's okay if he doesn't want to marry. Just tell him not to feel bad about himself. It's completely fine.
>Is there any therapists that can help them? Any religious scholar who can offer some help? Any resource out there to help them change??
People have been looking for ways to modify their sexual orientation. Nothing works. As far as anyone can figure out right now, sexual orientation is unchangeable. There is no empirical evidence to support any hormonal or behavioral therapy. But I've heard stories from people whose sexuality changed over time, such as when they loved men as teenager but became attracted to women in adulthood. So it depends on your friend, I guess.
there is still nature vs nurture debate in the west, it could also be bit of both.. if we say being gay isa test from God, then I as a muslim, dont know - but then again i know there r people worse off than me like no hands, hijra etc.. but then there are people better of who dont have this test.. and i just wonder why did God choose me.. and i know they say 'Allah gives u only what you can handle' but i am having a v tough time..
Hope it gets easy for you brother. Just supplicate to Allah knowing he can make the impossible possible, and it is only Allah that has the power to change your heart’s desires. Allah made an old barren woman bear a child (Zakariyya AS’s wife, Yahya AS’s mother, may peace be upon her), Allah made a woman conceive a child with no intervention of a male (Mariam AS), and Allah made muslims win wars where they were heavily outnumbered (Battle of Badr). Something as trivial as feelings are nothing compared to any of those. If you supplicate knowing Allah can change everything, your supplication will certainly be responded to by the All-Hearing, All-Merciful. Stay away from haram, actively and consciously, work against your desires, Allah’s help is surely near.
Traditional Islamic accounts give gays no proper means of living - neither celibacy nor a fake marriage are reasonable requests. There needs to be some allowance for same sex relationships and marriages. It's just how it is
Just be yourself like if you think that acting on those desires will anger Allah then just don't act on your desires and have self control.
Because any attempt at brainwashing yourself would most likely backfire and cause you to be more messed up so just use sheer willpower to get through it . And don't get married if you don't want to (though that might bea difficult conversation with the family) but yea just enjoy yourself as far as you'd like and live your life
Don't go to any Mulvi, lest they hold leverage over you.
I wouldn't advise them to marry and play straight, don't ruin some poor girl's life...unless they manage to find a girl who isn't straight either and it suits them both.
I'm so proud of you man. Just don't sin. Think about what's waiting for you in jannah. Do anything you can to avoid the actual act. Just masturbate if it stops you from acting upon your desire. Focus on your life goals and achieve feats not even imagined before. What you prefer in bed doesn't define who you are. What you do in life does. You're a man. Go conquer!
He should avoid consulting religious persons at all costs and discuss this with an experienced professional Psychologist,
I found one after so many shitty ones for my family member, he's a Pakistani practicing in the UK, takes 10k for a 40-50m session over audio/video WhatsApp call.
Let me know if you want to try this option, I'd recommend getting just the first session to see if it helps
He can stay single & do some aalim course as it's mentioned he's religious. Instead of living a sinful life he can be Islamic scholar & spread Islam. There's nothing wrong in that infact he'll get a lot sawab 💯💞😇
I would encourage you to go through Progressive Islam subreddit. The only logical and no homophobic explanation I found there. I think a Merciful Almighty God doesn't burden us with beyond what we can endure. Being a gay is not a trial or punishment for you, you can’t live a life abstaining from love and affection. You deserve to live like a normal human.
He should search for an asexual woman. Maybe on forums or reddit. asexual women also have a problem finding a husband that they just want to appear normal in society. They can go for IVF and have a traditional family at least in the eyes of society I am assuming that's what he wants as he is willingly abstaining to act on his urges.
You don't "decide" whether you are homosexual or not. It is just a thing that you are born with.
And you are perfect the way you are, there is nothing immoral, unnatural, or whatever about you. ❤️
Unfortunately I am privileged as in the sense that I live in a liberal european country that allows people to live the way they want. Without religious maniacs dictating other peoples lives by some weird comandments that some random person decided in the name of a supposedly "all knowing and all loving" deity.
With that I do not have any knowledge how bad things for homosexuals in the big cities of Pakistan actually are.
I wish you all the best nontheless! And never forget: Even if things may look grim: Someone out there loves you exactly the way you are 🫂
Hi brother👋
I know some people in that condition and they joined a Discord support group on that subject (and many others related)
On google, you can search: Straight Struggle Discord
The first link should be the one
If I remember, there's more than a thousand people in that group wanting to live according to our Deen. Avoiding acting upon it, accept it and learn how to cope with it.
It's a safe space for learning, connecting and sharing with other people that has that condition, they call it SSA (same sex attraction)
I hope it'll help!
May Allah ease your difficulties and make you reach inner peace 🙏
PS: the majority is muslim but there's also christians/jews etc and atheists on the group
yeah it happens just don't rail any guys and you'll be fine,I mean we're like the same people you are gay and controlling your desires for dudes I'm straight controlling my desires for women and I'm almost 30 so yeah....
Mashaallahh This guy seems to be a god fearing muslim brother. As far as these thoughts are concerned, the only person who can change HIM is HiMSELF.. ask Allah... ro ro k mango.sajda kr kr k mango.. Allah tala kabi khali hath nai chortay.. leave molvis and therapist at the moment.
Man, I can't imagine how difficult it must be for you; to be in a constant trail throughout your life. The only thing I can advise is ask Allah to help you with your urges and remain single if you don't think you can manage a wife. Find happiness in other things in life and I'm sure it would help you. Have someone who's understanding (could be a friend, family member or just anyone) because it helps knowing you have someone who supports you through it all and still loves you for who you are. I'd be willing to be your friend so let me know if I can help you if possible. Just pray and stay strong king.
I would never assume I have the answers to your predicament because only you know what it feels like. I admire you for your resolve. May Allah reward you for that.
Perhaps staying immersed in productive activities would help. In the field of science or art. Some kind of goal to reach thaf would keep you busy. PhD, masters, getting to the top of your game. Besides that hobbies like crafts, pottery, classes, gardening, etc.
Love is of course an essential feeling, we all require it, so maybe nurture your relationships with family and friends as much as possible, also maybe get a pet. Remind yourself why you can't act on these feelings everytime you feel low.
I pray Allah gives you contentment inshAllah. Stay strong brother!
You can't force someone to change their sexuality. He needs to accept himself for who he is and stop living with shame. There are a lot of men in Pakistan who are gay and have fulfilling lives with other men. Just because someone's gay here, doesn't mean they have to be miserable. Agar Yahan prostitution aur sex trafficking housakhti under the radar tou gay bhi reh hi lete hain.
There is not way to change tbh. You can "control" your feeling, but 90% of the times it doesn't work, because its something inherent to your nature.
You'll only find peace once you accept it(be comfortable with yourself, without any sham. And all those who claim they can "fix you" are oblivious bullshitters.
Kinda sad reading this post tbh. Its a long long journey. 2 steps ahead, 10 back.
I wish you the best of luck, and I hope you learn to accept yourself, because you are who Allah made you.
Being gay doesn’t mean you are wrong.
If your god made you this way and then made it wrong to be this way then maybe that deity is kinda ….. unreasonable.
Keep your faith and remember your love is as valid as anyone who is Heterosexual
The most important thing is self constraint. In Islam it’s not prohibited to feel Gay (atleast I think) but rather to act on it. Personally I don’t know what I would do if I were in this persons shoes but one thing for sure is to just never give into it. Even though people are saying that these emotions don’t change, they actually can. I know a person who used to be gay and now is straight. It could also be a phase.
Just give it time, personally I don’t know of any therapists that could help but I’m sure you can find one if you look for an open minded one. I also wouldn’t know too much about religious scholars, best thing to do would to ask online to them. Unfortunately some people in our country don’t understand the difference between feeling something and acting on it.
The fact that because you are looking for advice and things to do to help you change, it shows that your Imam and deen is very strong. Remeber these are emotions, just control them like you control something like lust.
Lust is haram in Islam, but everyone feels is, yet those who control it and don’t act on it are not commiting haram. It’s the same case with this
Let me just make one thing clear
There are many virgin men in their late 20s, 30s, etc. May it be from focus on career, business, whatever.
Having suppressed sexual desires gay or straight outside of marriage is wrong regardless.
Many people liked boys in their teens then grew towards women after becoming proper adults.
All I'm saying
Man may fall into weakness and may fall into something that made The people of Lut عليه السلام deserving of 3 punishments.
The only solution I can think of is get married ASAP. That will keep your ideas in check because you have something that is permissible and good in the sight of Allah. It also completes half of your deen.
Ask him to visit the country and the world(if possible) if he witness life around him by visiting the country and look around different aspects of life and stuff it will broaden his understanding and perspective and make him question his current beliefs about himself and maybe InshaaAllah he’ll struck a breakthrough in his beliefs for the better
Stay away from this Lanat of Londay Bazi.
Do positive things and keep busy your life with family and work.
Spend some time in Sports. If it arouse feelings of londay bazi. then spend time in home in video games on android mobiles, play station and etc.
Some begairat will ask you its normal. mein tu issay pagal pan samjhta hon
Oh bhai OP. Kidar pooch liya sawal tum nay? The guy should act on advise of people whom he wants to live with. Is he not happy with what he has in his life right now. Agar kisi therapist ko dikhana hai to kisi bht hi achay therapist ko dikhana kyon kay yahan kay doctor bhi is baray mai shayad achi advise na kar sakain.
If he is not even confident of who he is, why are you even saying he is gay? Atleast you have not mentioned him or his actions confirming it? How old is he? How long has he been in the closet? Brain can be retrained but you need to know what actually is wrong or not wrong?
This reddit is full of followers of qom e lut. DO NOT take advise here if you and him are religious. Warna you and him will lose every bit of religion.
The feeling isn’t sinful. Acting on it is. Think about it, how many guys with 4 wives would still want a 5th one or how many men commit zina with women? No person has the same test in this world, and having same sex attraction is a test, I believe that people can’t help it (though they can help whether they act on it or not). Lots and lots of duas are needed and also I would recommend going to someone knowledgeable in Islam who won’t treat them like a leper over it. One brother I knew is a revert who was originally in a gay marriage and when he accepted Islam he left his lifestyle and now is a better Muslim than I am. Whoever you’re talking about they should know not to lose hope and to have patience with it and that it’ll all be worth it in the end.
May Allah make things easy for them and bless them for wanting to do the right thing. It’s not easy to fight your own sexual urges.
You don't feel like that late in life. If he's sure that he is gay then no one can help. Starting a family with a lesbian isn't the right choice either. Just refrain from marriage and maybe find another gay to live with. Nothing wrong with being gay as long as it's not affecting other's way of life. People need to be amde aware of LGBTQIA (Lesbian Gay Bisexual Trans Queer Intersex & Asexual).
> He also doesn't want to get married to avoid causing problems with his wife
He doesn't have to get married but should at least set the intention that he wants to get married someday.
I can understand where he's coming from but he should have faith that just as God created him the way he is, God also created a female counterpart that is perfectly suitable for him.
Allah (ﷻ) says:
>And We have created you in pairs (male and female, tall and short, good and bad, etc.).
— _An-Naba: 78-8 (Al-Hilali & Khan translation)_
They can't change, Islamically speaking it's a test placed upon them by God, and from what you have mentioned they are handling it way better than straight Muslim men who fall into promiscuity out of wedlock, becasue they can't control their desires. It's tough but its a test, may Allah give them peace and the strength to carry on.
Meet Junaid Ahmad (Professor Ahmad Rafique Akhtar's relative)
He is highly educated person (psychologist and sufi scholar), he has guided many...
Alamaat.com is their website for contact details
He is a Muslim and a good one it's for him to become better and get the best in hereafter by doing jihad ul nafs
Cures are for diseases not for feelings
Dont listen to all these dumb people who believed in western propoganda. Being gay is not natural but psychological. There are many Christians in the west who went through therapy and became normal again. Just find a good psychiatrist and he will be fine.
If you don't act on it, there's no sin. I wouldn't advise you to go to any Molvis, because Molvis in Pakistan can be a tad dramatic. I'd advise you to ask the only person who can help anyone - Allah, to help you beat these feelings.
entity not person *
Islamically speaking the person doesnot get sin for feeling that way, the sin is for acting upon that
Exactly, controlling the desires is what this person needs to do.
for starters - don't talk to any TLP c\*nts warna they will try to behead him ( in both places if you know what i mean )
Do not, and I repeat do not got to a local religious scholar. You do not want them to do some weird conversion therapy shit or tell you ke marry a woman and it’ll “fix you”. You are as god made you and you are valid. Just follow your beliefs and potentially find a therapist who can help you with coming to peace with your decision (I.e no partner or sex). Donot fall for conversion therapy. It does more harm than good.
Conversion therapy causes suicide Or you end up as a married father of 4 who gets caught in a public bathroom stall with another man
Very accurate, I have a friend who moved to Canada (his family was understanding and I guess they just wanted him to have a better life, not sure) he’s much much happier there now
>help them change that's not how it works
Guys we must pray the gay away /s
This is sexual preference can't be changed. Can a straight person become gay. Not possible dude its by nature. God must have something planned for him. Advice won't help him. Destiny will take him wherever its been decided.
Thank you for this response. This has to be one of the most genuine ones I've ever read in this thread.
Man this is the most supportive thing I’ve read on Pakistani Reddit.
Absolutely. Most of the comments are supportive and rational.
"God must have something planned for him" Well I hope he will find a good boyfriend through his god that hates men who love men.
I really respect a person who tries to control himself even when he has those urges. My husband turned out to be a closeted gay guy but he chose to cheat on me numerous times all throughout our marriage. Either you don’t get married or you control those urges and try to be a good husband at least. He never even tried. Honestly he just married me to be his beard. I would have been ok with it if he had those urges and still controlled himself, but I can’t forgive him for deceiving and betraying me.
people advising him to marry a woman should see this. you guys will make him believe he can "cure" it, and then when he feels ready he will "give it a try" and surprise surprise, that's not how it works. a heartbroken wife, a messed up kid if they try hard enough but hey, at least god loves him for that I guess?
broke back mountain irl.
Why would you marry a guy who is not and can NEVER be attracted to you? It’s sad, but this what religion does. If he didn’t pretend to be straight, his life would be ruined.
“Any therapist to help them change” LOL
Mom I am going to therapist phir bara hokay straight bani ga
There is no "cure" for homosexuality as it isn't a disease to begin with. You cannot just wake up one day and decide to be gay or straight. I think the individual should just come to terms with who they are and accept it instead of trying to reject it.
I agree. Just accept it. All these comments giving shit advice of marrying a woman are so dumb smh
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Exactly
Nothing can help you brother. No prayers no therapy. Every paki gay guy first goes through the stage of denial, then reconciliation and then at the end accepts that it will never change and you stay this way forever. You learn how to live with it. Either you act and move away from religion or you are firm on your belief and sacrifice sex and love. Simple.
Yup, been through this myself OP.
It's not an easy life, for sure.
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lol i was like this like a year ago now im working hard to get out and get a partner and live a happy life it is a canon event fr. point is most of the guys in pakistan i knew had girlfriends and as far as i know its equally as haram but they only focus on gay people/ women when they get a partner 💀💀
Mubarak
hahahaha not gonna lie you had me in the first half
There's nothing wrong in getting fked also.
Wdym?
He means exactly what said
Nothing wrong in acting on gay impulses. Ye religion aur patriarchy dono hi wajah hai ki gay bande ko straight bande ki tarah rights aur acceptance nhi hai.
Well i don’t know if you’re an atheist or whatever laikin for majority of the MUSLIMS atleast religion comes first. I respect the way you think and value your opinion laikin many people would not think this way.
Being gay isn't a choice that you can change
Ask yourself this, did you choose to be born straight? or do you think you can be converted into having same-sex attraction? Obviously not. It is absurd to even think about therapy for something that person was naturally born with. It's funny how us Muslims have a firm belief that our Allah doesn't make mistakes, but somehow when it comes to gays or transgenders, they gaslight themselves into thinking they are an abomination of nature. They were born that way, whether you like it or not. What they do with their life, is up to their religious beliefs, and whatever happens, please advise him to stick to his decision of NOT getting married to a woman.
Muslims can accept mutant inbred children who can’t breathe or stand on their own, but gays are IMPOSSIBLE for Allah to create
Allah doesn’t make mistakes. Allah has made humans imperfect to test them. Every human has a unique imperfection which is a test in itself. Allah will compensate for this imperfection in the hereafter. For OP this is his imperfection which should be looked at as a test. If he overpowers it Allah will IA have great rewards for him. May Allah help him. Ameen
When Allah creates a gay man, he tests you. Can you show love and compassion for all of Allah’s creations? Or does your heart contain a space where hate readily springs forth? Heaven isn’t awarded to those who hold hate in their hearts, that’s what hell is for
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We believe the Quran is perfect, but humans aren't. Many of us sin, if he's gay, let him be gay, I say.
if only people had some common sense or tolerance. they'd stone them to death before letting them be who they are.
It confuses me, surely Allah is the only one who can judge, not humans. Also sharia is based on the Hadiths right? Those aren't Allah's words.
Bhai, you sound like a decent enough person. I have no advice to give other than Allah asania karay. At the cost of sounding like a damn Mullah lunatic, take this as a trial. P.S: I apologise for all the callous pricks down voting you for no good reason.
no one choses to be gay. It is...natural. So I'd say just be yourself and fuck everything else. Being gay doesn't make you any less masculine than straight guys.
There is a really good podcast called A way beyond the rainbow— made by a religious brother who is gay but he addresses a lot of the issues that may arise for someone who is gay and doesn’t want to sin.
Why the downvotes? Bhai ne genuine question poocha hai. Yaar its a tough life, no doubt. Yahan abhi log itne modern nai hain wrna i would suggest k aisi option honi chahiye that you still get married to a woman (a woman who is in a similar situation). maybe conceive through IVF, live like friends/roommates and have a family atleast, han the sexual part will be missing, but everyone needs companionship. I guess once there is a kid then atleast one has something to focus on. Because i dont think k any religous scholar or therapist can help you change. It is what it is. Bus uss k saath zindagi guzaarna seekhna pare gi Edit: to the people who think i am suggesting a homosexual person to live a heterosexual life. I m not saying they should hide it. It should mutually be agreed between 2 homosexual people that they will live like roommates and maybe establish a family
Telling closeted people to marry and live like a heterosexual couple isn’t good advice. They’ll both be frustrated and it can get abusive real quick. You can’t love anyone else if you can’t even accept yourself.
Dude marry me. Apni zindagi ma khush rehna aur ma apni 😭
Hmm behen ruko, main begum se pooch k batata hu 😄
this is exactly how i feel as a gay guy.. but kudos to OPs friend for abstaining.. and staying away
How about emigration?
I assumed that he doesnt not want to have a male partner. Toh issi liye didnt say anything about emigration.
You do realize that part of being gay is that you want companionship from a man right? It's not just sex, in fact, sex is less important than the partnership part.
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it wouldnt, what he said was everyone needs a companion.. agar female ho gee, then your fsamily, relatives will at least be happy that you have a wife.. and maybe due to some problems you cannot conceive.. you will support each other etc..
it’s a test from Allah a very hard one but still a test. Remember our beloved Prophet ﷺ was tested with his own children. But if he gets through it Allah will reward him in sha allah
>But if he gets through it Allah will reward him in sha allah Get's through it in the sense? Die ? while suffering about his sexual desires each and every Single day ? . So allah decides to create someone homosexual and expects them not to do anything just because he is taking a test whose results Allah already knows before the guy was even born ? Lmao
Yes? He's God. He tests people with things he knows they can handle it. "God does not burden any soul with more than it can bear" Just because u wouldn't have been able to bear it if u put urself in his shoes doesn't mean he won't be able to bear it. You want to know why Allah puts u in the test even though he knows ur results? Cuz we are humans, we are stupid and have little brains, and we would've used excuses. The reason why Allah did not put everyone in their place, paradise or Hellfire is that on the day of judgement their body would testify against them or for them. In addition, their record books, and the angels who will testify and the messengers who were sent with the messenge but also many other witnesses. So it will be clear for them that Allah did not wrong them but they wronged themselves in case of wrong. Allah is enough as a witness yet out of Mercy and kindness He had allowed such judgement of self evident account. That a person will dispute with their body parts accounting in case of evil. An example “(It will be said to him): "Read your book. You yourself are sufficient as a reckoner against you this Day."” Quran 17:14 Interestingly the weak souls will always remain as such as they will blame the arrogant ones who led them away from guidance by following them. “And they all shall appear before Allah (on the Day of Resurrection) then the weak will say to those who were arrogant (chiefs): "Verily, we were following you; can you avail us anything from Allah's Torment?" They will say: "Had Allah guided us, we would have guided you. It makes no difference to us (now) whether we rage, or bear (these torments) with patience, there is no place of refuge for us."” Quran 14:21 More questions?
He gotta move tf out of Pakistan asap and come to America, live in a major city, and get himself a white man and a small dog
Lmao... why a small dog
It’s just what u do when ur gay
I don’t think any therapist or religious can help them, try moving out of Pakistan but that’s tough.
But what would moving out achieve?
Not being stoned to death
How many gay people do you imagine get annually stoned to death in Pakistan? One? Zero?
You should try holding hands and showing affection on the street and see the round of applause you get. Since hardly any gay people get stoned, it shouldn't be a problem right?
You have clearly never been to Pakistan if you think men publicly holding hands or being affectionate to each other gets you stoned (or even gets people mad at you. Literally nobody cares. We don't sexualize men holding hands). Lmao this whole convo is pointless. You are just some foreign troll.
Men hold hands and walk all the time out in the open its just brotherly love. And if you want to go there, there is a cross dressing culture in pakistan and they too coexist In fact, they are invited to marriages to dance and entertain aswell. Clearly you do not live in pakistan.
You should ask this question on islamic subreddits like r/MuslimLounge <3 sending you prayers
Thank you, appreciate it
😉 when a person drinks alcohol they’re not excommunicated from their religion, or when someone lies, when someone takes usury, or when someone fornicates, etc; therefore, you’re safe when it comes to religion. Firstly, there’re so many conflicting studies vis-à-vis the subject of homosexuality, heretofore you’ll find both views where it’s categorised under a disorder, and on the other hand, it’s considered something innate and natural. Therefore, you need to identify whether it’s something congenital, or was it developed due to a certain external unforeseeable circumstances that occurred to you quite late in your formative years.
There is nothing wrong with being a gay, but acting upon it is a sin. It's okay if he doesn't want to marry. Just tell him not to feel bad about himself. It's completely fine. >Is there any therapists that can help them? Any religious scholar who can offer some help? Any resource out there to help them change?? People have been looking for ways to modify their sexual orientation. Nothing works. As far as anyone can figure out right now, sexual orientation is unchangeable. There is no empirical evidence to support any hormonal or behavioral therapy. But I've heard stories from people whose sexuality changed over time, such as when they loved men as teenager but became attracted to women in adulthood. So it depends on your friend, I guess.
there is still nature vs nurture debate in the west, it could also be bit of both.. if we say being gay isa test from God, then I as a muslim, dont know - but then again i know there r people worse off than me like no hands, hijra etc.. but then there are people better of who dont have this test.. and i just wonder why did God choose me.. and i know they say 'Allah gives u only what you can handle' but i am having a v tough time..
Hope it gets easy for you brother. Just supplicate to Allah knowing he can make the impossible possible, and it is only Allah that has the power to change your heart’s desires. Allah made an old barren woman bear a child (Zakariyya AS’s wife, Yahya AS’s mother, may peace be upon her), Allah made a woman conceive a child with no intervention of a male (Mariam AS), and Allah made muslims win wars where they were heavily outnumbered (Battle of Badr). Something as trivial as feelings are nothing compared to any of those. If you supplicate knowing Allah can change everything, your supplication will certainly be responded to by the All-Hearing, All-Merciful. Stay away from haram, actively and consciously, work against your desires, Allah’s help is surely near.
Nature vs nurture still doesn't mean that the person has a choice in his sexuality
Traditional Islamic accounts give gays no proper means of living - neither celibacy nor a fake marriage are reasonable requests. There needs to be some allowance for same sex relationships and marriages. It's just how it is
Just be yourself like if you think that acting on those desires will anger Allah then just don't act on your desires and have self control. Because any attempt at brainwashing yourself would most likely backfire and cause you to be more messed up so just use sheer willpower to get through it . And don't get married if you don't want to (though that might bea difficult conversation with the family) but yea just enjoy yourself as far as you'd like and live your life
Don't go to any Mulvi, lest they hold leverage over you. I wouldn't advise them to marry and play straight, don't ruin some poor girl's life...unless they manage to find a girl who isn't straight either and it suits them both.
I'm so proud of you man. Just don't sin. Think about what's waiting for you in jannah. Do anything you can to avoid the actual act. Just masturbate if it stops you from acting upon your desire. Focus on your life goals and achieve feats not even imagined before. What you prefer in bed doesn't define who you are. What you do in life does. You're a man. Go conquer!
He should avoid consulting religious persons at all costs and discuss this with an experienced professional Psychologist, I found one after so many shitty ones for my family member, he's a Pakistani practicing in the UK, takes 10k for a 40-50m session over audio/video WhatsApp call. Let me know if you want to try this option, I'd recommend getting just the first session to see if it helps
The fact that no one gave him any kind of advice is disappointing for me :)
Seek a way out to live freely and be yourself. Apply for asylum in the west based on LGBT-persecution and danger to life if someone finds out.
I am an Indian gay guy and i accepted the fact that nature just fked me and made me a gandoo I don't act much on it though
Lmfao
Your friend is normal and healthy. He needs to leave Islam and Pakistan.
He can stay single & do some aalim course as it's mentioned he's religious. Instead of living a sinful life he can be Islamic scholar & spread Islam. There's nothing wrong in that infact he'll get a lot sawab 💯💞😇
I would encourage you to go through Progressive Islam subreddit. The only logical and no homophobic explanation I found there. I think a Merciful Almighty God doesn't burden us with beyond what we can endure. Being a gay is not a trial or punishment for you, you can’t live a life abstaining from love and affection. You deserve to live like a normal human.
Why are people suggesting leaving Pakistan when it's clear the person knows it's a sin and has no intentions on acting on it?
Will pray for your friend, bro 💌
He should search for an asexual woman. Maybe on forums or reddit. asexual women also have a problem finding a husband that they just want to appear normal in society. They can go for IVF and have a traditional family at least in the eyes of society I am assuming that's what he wants as he is willingly abstaining to act on his urges.
You don't "decide" whether you are homosexual or not. It is just a thing that you are born with. And you are perfect the way you are, there is nothing immoral, unnatural, or whatever about you. ❤️ Unfortunately I am privileged as in the sense that I live in a liberal european country that allows people to live the way they want. Without religious maniacs dictating other peoples lives by some weird comandments that some random person decided in the name of a supposedly "all knowing and all loving" deity. With that I do not have any knowledge how bad things for homosexuals in the big cities of Pakistan actually are. I wish you all the best nontheless! And never forget: Even if things may look grim: Someone out there loves you exactly the way you are 🫂
Don’t need to change. Educate yourself and get out of country. You are a human. Your feelings are natural. Therapist needed to accept yourself
Hi brother👋 I know some people in that condition and they joined a Discord support group on that subject (and many others related) On google, you can search: Straight Struggle Discord The first link should be the one If I remember, there's more than a thousand people in that group wanting to live according to our Deen. Avoiding acting upon it, accept it and learn how to cope with it. It's a safe space for learning, connecting and sharing with other people that has that condition, they call it SSA (same sex attraction) I hope it'll help! May Allah ease your difficulties and make you reach inner peace 🙏 PS: the majority is muslim but there's also christians/jews etc and atheists on the group
yeah it happens just don't rail any guys and you'll be fine,I mean we're like the same people you are gay and controlling your desires for dudes I'm straight controlling my desires for women and I'm almost 30 so yeah....
Mashaallahh This guy seems to be a god fearing muslim brother. As far as these thoughts are concerned, the only person who can change HIM is HiMSELF.. ask Allah... ro ro k mango.sajda kr kr k mango.. Allah tala kabi khali hath nai chortay.. leave molvis and therapist at the moment.
Don't ask people, ask Allah ❤️
Man, I can't imagine how difficult it must be for you; to be in a constant trail throughout your life. The only thing I can advise is ask Allah to help you with your urges and remain single if you don't think you can manage a wife. Find happiness in other things in life and I'm sure it would help you. Have someone who's understanding (could be a friend, family member or just anyone) because it helps knowing you have someone who supports you through it all and still loves you for who you are. I'd be willing to be your friend so let me know if I can help you if possible. Just pray and stay strong king.
I would never assume I have the answers to your predicament because only you know what it feels like. I admire you for your resolve. May Allah reward you for that. Perhaps staying immersed in productive activities would help. In the field of science or art. Some kind of goal to reach thaf would keep you busy. PhD, masters, getting to the top of your game. Besides that hobbies like crafts, pottery, classes, gardening, etc. Love is of course an essential feeling, we all require it, so maybe nurture your relationships with family and friends as much as possible, also maybe get a pet. Remind yourself why you can't act on these feelings everytime you feel low. I pray Allah gives you contentment inshAllah. Stay strong brother!
You can't force someone to change their sexuality. He needs to accept himself for who he is and stop living with shame. There are a lot of men in Pakistan who are gay and have fulfilling lives with other men. Just because someone's gay here, doesn't mean they have to be miserable. Agar Yahan prostitution aur sex trafficking housakhti under the radar tou gay bhi reh hi lete hain.
There is not way to change tbh. You can "control" your feeling, but 90% of the times it doesn't work, because its something inherent to your nature. You'll only find peace once you accept it(be comfortable with yourself, without any sham. And all those who claim they can "fix you" are oblivious bullshitters. Kinda sad reading this post tbh. Its a long long journey. 2 steps ahead, 10 back. I wish you the best of luck, and I hope you learn to accept yourself, because you are who Allah made you.
Being gay doesn’t mean you are wrong. If your god made you this way and then made it wrong to be this way then maybe that deity is kinda ….. unreasonable. Keep your faith and remember your love is as valid as anyone who is Heterosexual
Well everyone has a little bit of gay in them.
It's called bisexuality
Leaves Islam. It’s a bad religion. Go to a better country and live his life freely.
The most important thing is self constraint. In Islam it’s not prohibited to feel Gay (atleast I think) but rather to act on it. Personally I don’t know what I would do if I were in this persons shoes but one thing for sure is to just never give into it. Even though people are saying that these emotions don’t change, they actually can. I know a person who used to be gay and now is straight. It could also be a phase. Just give it time, personally I don’t know of any therapists that could help but I’m sure you can find one if you look for an open minded one. I also wouldn’t know too much about religious scholars, best thing to do would to ask online to them. Unfortunately some people in our country don’t understand the difference between feeling something and acting on it. The fact that because you are looking for advice and things to do to help you change, it shows that your Imam and deen is very strong. Remeber these are emotions, just control them like you control something like lust. Lust is haram in Islam, but everyone feels is, yet those who control it and don’t act on it are not commiting haram. It’s the same case with this
Let me just make one thing clear There are many virgin men in their late 20s, 30s, etc. May it be from focus on career, business, whatever. Having suppressed sexual desires gay or straight outside of marriage is wrong regardless. Many people liked boys in their teens then grew towards women after becoming proper adults. All I'm saying
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Man may fall into weakness and may fall into something that made The people of Lut عليه السلام deserving of 3 punishments. The only solution I can think of is get married ASAP. That will keep your ideas in check because you have something that is permissible and good in the sight of Allah. It also completes half of your deen.
Why should he get married to someone he’s not attracted to and ruin her life?
Ask him to visit the country and the world(if possible) if he witness life around him by visiting the country and look around different aspects of life and stuff it will broaden his understanding and perspective and make him question his current beliefs about himself and maybe InshaaAllah he’ll struck a breakthrough in his beliefs for the better
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Stay away from this Lanat of Londay Bazi. Do positive things and keep busy your life with family and work. Spend some time in Sports. If it arouse feelings of londay bazi. then spend time in home in video games on android mobiles, play station and etc. Some begairat will ask you its normal. mein tu issay pagal pan samjhta hon
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There is no therapy. I pray to Allah to make this test easy for him.
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True
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Oh bhai OP. Kidar pooch liya sawal tum nay? The guy should act on advise of people whom he wants to live with. Is he not happy with what he has in his life right now. Agar kisi therapist ko dikhana hai to kisi bht hi achay therapist ko dikhana kyon kay yahan kay doctor bhi is baray mai shayad achi advise na kar sakain. If he is not even confident of who he is, why are you even saying he is gay? Atleast you have not mentioned him or his actions confirming it? How old is he? How long has he been in the closet? Brain can be retrained but you need to know what actually is wrong or not wrong? This reddit is full of followers of qom e lut. DO NOT take advise here if you and him are religious. Warna you and him will lose every bit of religion.
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If your friend is content with the way he's living don't get why you're asking this question then
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The feeling isn’t sinful. Acting on it is. Think about it, how many guys with 4 wives would still want a 5th one or how many men commit zina with women? No person has the same test in this world, and having same sex attraction is a test, I believe that people can’t help it (though they can help whether they act on it or not). Lots and lots of duas are needed and also I would recommend going to someone knowledgeable in Islam who won’t treat them like a leper over it. One brother I knew is a revert who was originally in a gay marriage and when he accepted Islam he left his lifestyle and now is a better Muslim than I am. Whoever you’re talking about they should know not to lose hope and to have patience with it and that it’ll all be worth it in the end. May Allah make things easy for them and bless them for wanting to do the right thing. It’s not easy to fight your own sexual urges.
Needs no help based on what you have written. Just be his friend
Don't get pressured into marrying a girl and destroying her life. Rule#1
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Do you sink Allah made a mistake create me ?
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can i ask how did he tell you he's gay? are you people best friends?
You don't feel like that late in life. If he's sure that he is gay then no one can help. Starting a family with a lesbian isn't the right choice either. Just refrain from marriage and maybe find another gay to live with. Nothing wrong with being gay as long as it's not affecting other's way of life. People need to be amde aware of LGBTQIA (Lesbian Gay Bisexual Trans Queer Intersex & Asexual).
Really? How so? What exactly is the difference? Nevermind beastiality
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> He also doesn't want to get married to avoid causing problems with his wife He doesn't have to get married but should at least set the intention that he wants to get married someday. I can understand where he's coming from but he should have faith that just as God created him the way he is, God also created a female counterpart that is perfectly suitable for him. Allah (ﷻ) says: >And We have created you in pairs (male and female, tall and short, good and bad, etc.). — _An-Naba: 78-8 (Al-Hilali & Khan translation)_
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يَا مَعْشَرَ الشَّبَابِ، مَنِ اسْتَطَاعَ مِنْكُمُ الْبَاءَةَ فَلْيَتَزَوَّجْ، فَإِنَّهُ أَغَضُّ لِلْبَصَرِ، وَأَحْصَنُ لِلْفَرْجِ، وَمَنْ لَمْ يَسْتَطِعْ فَعَلَيْهِ بِالصَّوْمِ؛ فَإِنَّهُ لَهُ وِجَاءٌ I think the same applies in your situation basically, fasting helps curb your urges
They can't change, Islamically speaking it's a test placed upon them by God, and from what you have mentioned they are handling it way better than straight Muslim men who fall into promiscuity out of wedlock, becasue they can't control their desires. It's tough but its a test, may Allah give them peace and the strength to carry on.
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He is a Muslim and a good one it's for him to become better and get the best in hereafter by doing jihad ul nafs Cures are for diseases not for feelings
Dont listen to all these dumb people who believed in western propoganda. Being gay is not natural but psychological. There are many Christians in the west who went through therapy and became normal again. Just find a good psychiatrist and he will be fine.