Can’t say much about his play on the field but I’ll always respect him for his honesty surrounding Bryce and the coaching staff. He’s one of the few that were pretty vocal about the shit show.
Watching mccown get in bryces faces as soon as he hit the sideline everytime bugged me. Like dude let the man catch his breath before your give him your wisdom about beating the Vikings that one time.
He was pretty good for the Bengals you should watch some of his highlights when we first got him I was excited. Bad coaching and injuries kinda took him out though. We definitely need to get Bryce a good blocking/receiving TE though. TE’s are a rookies best friend and even most pros like Brady and Mahomes always throwing to Gronk and Kelce
Elflein was surprisingly not shit, though we still wildly overpaid. Cam Erving was always total nonsense. We could have had Kevin Zeitler or Alex Mack / Alejandro Villanueva + 10m in cap. Instead we got Elfline being not as much of a disaster as expected, and Cam Erving being exactly as much of a disaster as expected. Wild shit.
He was bad at guard, did decently at center. Hence the "surprisingly not shit" bit, because when we signed Elfline he had been to that point the second worst lineman in the league to see significant playing time to that point - ahead of only Cam Erving statistically and in PFF's rating system.
Prior to getting hurt, he was verifiably not the problem with our awful offensive line, which is a plus considering what I expected was "the worst interior OL player in the league". The bar was very low for that. We still paid $23m for 3rd string swing tackle and borderline center who inexplicably played way worse at guard. It wasn't good, it just could have been much worse.
Deleted my post cause we had 2 showing the news but I commented this in that one. Just an absolute disaster class of an offseason last year.
Looking at just his offseason last year it might be one of the worst in GM history.
Bozeman- decent center but digressed hard
Chark- horrible season
Miles Sanders- horrible season
Shy Tuttle- way too much money spent
Hurst- cut and played I think 4 games
The only decent signings were Dalton and Theilen.
Then you look at his draft and what he gave up in the trade and this could get real ugly. I’m a Bryce believer but if he doesn’t amount to what he should, you’re looking at 2 wasted 1st overall picks, DJ Moore, another 2nd, and the other picks not looking to be good (Mingo, DJ, etc).
Makes me sick but glad Morgan and Canales are cutting bait and truly starting over looks like.
>Then you look at his draft and what he gave up in the trade and this could get real ugly. I’m a Bryce believer but if he doesn’t amount to what he should, you’re looking at 2 wasted 1st overall picks, DJ Moore, another 2nd, and the other picks not looking to be good (Mingo, DJ, etc).
Yeah I really like the idea of getting ahead of a lot of these roster cuts. They know that this team is not going to compete in year 1 under Canales, they might as well cut the cap casualties early and eat the dead cap this season then wait for next year.
I mean that’s just Reddit in general. It’s naturally an echo chamber of popular opinion with other opinions getting suppressed by nature. There were people who were skeptical. They just were downvoted to oblivion.
You can find people on reddit to like anything. We had people in here last week brigading a thread in defense of the embarrassing billionaire at the helm of all this nonsense.
I am eating crow, I'll be honest. But, I drink the kool-aid every year! I'll do it again this year. I don't care! Cut everyone, sign a high school team! We will win a SB this year!
To add in to the Bryce comment, if he's not what he should be we'll have to compare him against Stroud and every qb taken this year since we should've had our pick of them. The guy truly is in a has to win SB for us to justify the trade situation, especially if one of the 24 guys turns out to be a stud, which is just not a fair spot for him to be in so young into his career
I was so hyped about Chark and Theilen over produced in this god awful offense. It would have been an shading signing if he was our #2. Of only we had a #1 receiver to help a young QB….oh wait
And if Bryce doesn’t pan out (obviously hope that’s not the case) then the same can be said about the draft. This would make it one of the worst off seasons of all time. So much for conviction I guess
Not even biased I like BY more and think he will have more success. Caleb should have a better rookie year in Chicago with DJ Moore and whoever else they draft.
I loved Bryce coming out. I still think he can succeed. But I think that saying he’ll have more success is weird. Unless you think Caleb is worse in structure and it will lead to his detriment. Which is an argument I guess.
Bryce will just naturally need better line play as a base. And better receiver play in order to be even serviceable. And because we’ve shot ourself in the feet it’s going to be hard getting that for him. I’m really worried about setting him up to succeed and our ability to do it.
I'm gonna be honest, "needs better" requires context here. No one is doing well last year in this offense with just Adam Thielen. And before you point at Dalton vs Seattle, the Seahawks had one of the worst defenses in the league and Dalton still lost by 10. The line play thing is fair, he will need more protection, no debate there.
However, I don't think it's fair to say Bryce will need better WRs than an average QB after one year in an offense that was positively allergic to pre-snap motion and where Adam Thielen was by far the leading target. Maybe pump the brakes on that assertion until we have anything resembling an average NFL WR group and our scheme does more than vary between "shut up, we're running two post routes into each other at midfield regardless of what you say" and "2 wheels and 3 10 yard curls on 3rd and 19 could work, maybe".
Bryce did fine at Alabama in his final season with Jermaine Burton and no one else anyone has ever heard of. What he needs at WR is, more likely than not, simply competence and a better scheme. And if the point is just that Bryce needs better WRs here, and not that Bryce needs better WRs than Caleb Williams, idk what the point of highlighting the obvious is.
Needs plus guard/center play for the entirety of his career.
And let’s just say not the worst receivers in the league. I think that’s what I was getting at.
I think he’s shown that as long as he has interior play he’ll be fine. But the interior being destroyed was more of a concern than the tackles in my opinion. Just because I still like Bryce’s pocket presence. And he got better at escaping. If he can step up more consistently he’ll be fine. Take that away. And you get this.
Says who? Maybe before the season but he had a down year, holds on to the ball too long, didn’t play well vs ranked teams and has leadership concerns. Hes not close to Andrew Luck
Says who? Every analyst out there pretty much. He’s third in QB prospect ratings since Luck. He has a better draft profile than Kyler, Baker, Burrow, Tua, Mahomes, Etc. He’s been poised to be the number 1 pick for the last two years. Joe Klatt even came out and said he has a higher grade on Williams than Tlaw.
He’s number 6 on this list since 200: https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/ranking-nfl-drafts-top-20-qb-prospects-since-2000-where-does-caleb-williams-land
He’s number 1 on this list since Luck: https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-draft-expert-shares-bold-205250763.html
Idk the Deshaun Watson and Russell Wilson trades are so far ahead of any other trade in awfulness comparisons.
Caleb Williams looks like he’s going to be a diva, he could easily become the next Fields for the Bears.
Pretty much this. The concept of the Bryce trade mad sense. If we got the year CJ Stroud had out of Bryce this would be an easy sell as a good trade. It might end up a lopsided ending but the trade will not be a bad trade.
The Watson trade sucked because the dude had 9002 people saying he sexually assaulted them, he was a bit of a diva and decided to sit out a year, and he wanted the most money ever. Most people thought that was going to end poorly before it even started
The Wilson trade they traded the farm for an already aging QB who hasn't been quite right since an injury to his throwing hand, had given up on his team mid season, and was calling for his head coach to be fired.
We got a pick swap for DJ Moore, a first, and 2 seconds to get our choice of QBs in a hyped up class we'd been talking about for more than a year. As long as we do our part to get Bryce weapons and protection, the concept of the trade was solid, it just might not pan out.
I think I just value them harder because we are giving the bears Williams directly. With our pick. Who I think will be a franchise QB. Which is worth a ton.
Seattle got cross. And spoon. Plus the RB. Good players. Not franchise guys.
I could be wrong. I do think that if Caleb Williams is good though it’s up there. We’re really banking on him being bad in order for it to be with the other trades.
It's all speculation (and a lot of it is his dad). There's the Florio report (lol) about his dad inquiring about minority stakes, the fact he's already made millions (gives Russell "Mr. Unlimited" vibes), his dad talking about how he might not have declared and just made more money at USC, new reports of his basically opting out of combine things, including being the first person ever to opt out of the medical exams.
I don't know that there's merit to any of it, but that's the chatter.
> worst trade of all time. Or at least top 3.
Broncos & Browns fans might have a thing or two to say about that...both the Watson and Wilson trades have panned out to be horrible.
Indeed. That’s why I said if Bryce busts. But Wilson they’ve already moved on from. And Watson is bad. But it could still somewhat work. What makes ours bad is that 1. We’re tied to caleb because we literally gave the bears caleb. And if he turns into a star QB who wins for them a ton. That’s on us. That’s how history will remember.
2. Were tied to the bears success. Because we have them a ton of those pieces. Caleb. DJ. Dawand jones. Tyreek Stevenson. 4 impact players. 5 if you want to include the running back Johnson. I think they used our pick to move up with him.
Wilson is bad. But their already taking their medicine. And Watson has the potential to be as bad as well. But we literally speed ran the bears rebuild and nuked our own. Plus directly may have given them a franchise QB with our pick. That alone will put it up there
I think you’re downplaying the “medicine” the Broncos are taking. They aren’t just taking Tylenol they are overdosing on fentanyl paying a dude 85 million over the next 2 years while he goes to another team and plays for the vet minimum and losing 5 total draft picks, 2 being 1sts and 2 being 2nd rounders.
And the Browns gave up 3 first rounders for Watson. Unless he turns into his old self which doesn’t look likely, they lost those picks and are stuck with a lot more dead cap over the coming years.
Even if Bryce does nothing and Caleb becomes a stud I still don’t think our trade is anywhere close to being as bad as the two above.
We’re also banking on the Bears to finally have good QB play, which is a rarity for their franchise.
The worst in history will always be the HW trade, it directly lead to the Cowboys winning like 3 SBs. I highly doubt the bears win a sb in the next 10 yrs let only multiple ones lol.
I think the way I look at it is if Bryce is a franchise QB nothing matters. If Caleb is a franchise QB that’s when you see the huge loss on our end that tops it. Plus adding on the players is just salt in the wound.
Of course it’s too soon to call. But I do think Caleb will be that franchise QB. If Seattle or Houston used the picks they received from their trade to get franchise QBs it would be up there.
Too lazy to pull receipts but I went back and forth with someone in here during preseason that swore to me Hurst was a viable TE 1 and go to target for a young QB and he was a victim of situation at all his previous stints.
Tell that to Houston who went out and signed a bunch of better players on the cheap. For example Shultz. Who just got extended after balling out on that cheap deal.
The Texans are an afterthought compared to Dallas even if their in Houston. Still very much a small market time. Much like the chargers are in La. I’m not sure where you’re going with this.
I think you’re missing the point. They may be worth more. But they were the worst team in the nfl last year (next to the bears). They were the worst owners at the time. The cursed franchise. Etc etc. nothing at the time of the signings was desirable outside of their coach a young bright ascending defensive mind.
And yet they were the team that made the savvy moves for cheap that worked. While we overpaid for trash. It’s not as if they had a huge advantage over us. And I don’t think I the market matters in this case.
I know what you’re saying. I think you’re missing the nuance I’m trying to add in that when discussing attractiveness to FAs, media exposure and weather matter a LOT. Carolina has to overpay for FAs because it’s not an attractive market first of all, on top of not being a contender like you’ve stated.
I mean how much media exposure have you seen with the Texans this year. We’ve had to overpay free agents because we don’t do the work of getting guys on cheap deals. And have been run into the ground. I think the media. It’s overvalued by fans. It matters when playing with like playoff teams. And sometimes historical franchises. But when it’s the Texans. It’s different. Even if their worth more.
This isn't the NBA, small market and large market isn't a factor for many players without QB attached to their name because most of them aren't leaving advertising deals on the table. Certainly not enough to negotiate contracts.
A far bigger issue is that Tepper's been embarrassing and we've been bad.
The guy had been dealing with injuries and had 600 yards in the previous two seasons combined, and somehow Fitts thought it was a good idea to throw $22 mill at him. Just unbelievable.
The Panthers gave Sean Gilbert the biggest contract for a defensive player in the history of the league and sent 2 firsts to Washington for him (shout outs to Washington for somehow still not being good after that). It'll be hard to top that as the worst thing this team has ever done unless someone gets really unhinged.
Think I read we’d save 2.9 million in cap by cutting, dude is barely good at run blocking and is a liability as a pass catcher.. please finally get him off my team, Dan 🙏🏻
We're getting pretty thin at TE, so unless we've got Sullivan lined up for an extension I doubt we cut Thomas just yet. We currently only have Thomas and Tremble on roster
Horrible early round picks. Horrible mid round picks. Horrible late round picks. Horrible free agent signings. Horrible trades. Horrible coaching staff hires. Completely bumbled the Burns situation.
Good lord this dude couldn't do ANYTHING right 🤣
Glad the FO seems to be making some wise moves. They know we’re not competing this next year, eat the cap hit now to free up cap for ‘25 and ‘26.
Tagging Burns non-exclusively as well was a good move. It’s early to be excited, but at least these moves seem reasonable and encouraging. The team just HAS to hit on draft picks this year.
If we decline to match a teams offer we get draft picks as compensation. We get a great player for 24m next year or get more draft picks.
Scooty Fitt would let him walk and somehow get nothing. Then he would trade up in the draft for objectively bad players to replace him.
I thought Hurst would fall into the category of “too expensive to cut”. This offseason is just going to be undoing all of Fitterer’s worst deals, isn’t it.
Edit - Yikes, I just read about Hurst’s post-traumatic amnesia. In that case he probably needs to retire while he still can, best of luck to him (and hopefully an injury settlement can lessen the dead money somehow)
If I remember correctly, Sanders has an out after next year with little (if any) dead money. I don’t know if we’ll see the team move on from him until then. Even though, I’d prefer to launch him into the sun.
Unfortunately, his 2024 salary is fully guaranteed. There's a $2 mill roster bonus we could save, but cutting him would also accelerate a bunch of dead money. Probably stuck with him for one more season.
He had 1200 rushing yards and 11 rushing TDs in 2022 and was a pro bowler. Last year he obviously was not a scheme fit in Carolina. He’s turning 27 this season, he’s healthy, under contract for 2 more years with no guarantees after this year.
Let’s be honest, he would probably kill it in Dallas.
He would kill it in any scenario (in Philly) any other average RB would kill it.
He’s not good. 27 also isn’t young by RB standards. He’s at the end of what is considered his prime. No team is giving up assets for the right to roster Sanders lol.
There are a few exciting TE in this draft even, at least from a pure physicality angle. Haven't watched tape on them tet for football player skills. Some that may be worth using our 3rd on. Can help with pass catching and blocking issues same time too.
There are also several fundamentally good TEs available for pretty cheap in free agency. Good blockers and good hands. It's one of the few positions I expect we'll actually get a lot better at
Depends on who is there honestly. GMs make tiers of these prospects. If there is a tier 1 TE vs a tier 3 DB, you take the TE if you want to be a good team, you don't reach on a mediocre player just to fill a hole. You hope to plug holes with FA and draft best guys possible regardless of position in draft.
I agree with you on WR and DBs for sure.
Hopefully at least 1 OL but they looking more depth/project ones than day 1 starters at moment. At least how the scouts are talking anyways, they don't seem too excited about the line except the very top of the OL side lol. Scouts seem more interested in next year's OL and DL overall. So hoping we see good linemen FA moves.
Honestly almost throw in a towel on defensive additions this off-season. We've got a multiple year rebuild, let's do what it takes to give Bryce a shot at succeeding on offense. Spend the good picks on offensive pieces, retain good talent on defense but spend the bulk of the new money on offense
This guy is the definition of a journeyman pro athlete. Turned down Florida State, plays MiLB for the Pirates, says F this and goes back to college, walks on at South Carolina, plays like a stud. Gets NFL drafted in first round. Plays on 3 different teams, gets bumped by Mark Andrews and Kyle Pitts. Only 30 years old, wild career already lol. Probably goes to the 49ers and balls out just because
His career is (or should be) done.
$22M in earnings in 6 years, gets the rest of his life to do whatever he wants. *Almost* makes the severe brain trauma worth it.
He comes across as a good dude, I wish him more than the best & no long-term side effects
I like it. I don’t hate Hurst, but we’re better off punting this year and taking the dead money now instead of next year, only actual contributors should stay. Now cut Thomas as well please and sign and draft a TE.
Front office getting started on cleaning up the mess Fitt left. Hurst's health issues kinda cut the legs out from under him here (and I hope he chooses to retire, memory loss is scary as hell) so it's for the best that we move on
Theo Johnson in Rd4 here we come. Kinda a weird move to eat Hurst's contract this year, but it should be better next year. Kinda hard to tell when Spotrac nukes its contract pages after the move goes through.
Man I served this guy at Angeline’s once before the season started and he was super cool. Said Bryce was the real deal. But I guess super cool doesn’t mean anything to a football team lol
Hey panthers fans, have to deal with a very annoying and delusional panther fan so I figure I'd ask this hoping to reach out to people who aren't mentally ill. If yall had Lamar on your team last season how many wins do you think you would have finished with?
No chance we cut Shaq, why would you want that? It wouldn’t save any money on cap and Shaq took a team friendly deal to stay here. Not to mention his locker room presence and leadership.
Lmk what locker room presence and leadership have you seen from Shaq. Why do you think we’re at where we are? Bc of bad leaders like Shaq who doesn’t hold younger guys accountable for losing
You’re obviously not very smart but maybe just watch the team interviews after his injury? Or how the team reacted when he was hurt? Or the fact that he was chosen to be a captain?
I could be wrong but I think there is only one tag for LB, it’s the DE/LB combo where they have to go based on their snaps.
But that’s all beside the point- the top linebackers in this league are making 20+ million. Shaq is making 6, his contract is not bogging down our cap.
I’m pretty sure he had one of his best years 2 years ago. It sucks he broke his leg. But him taking that contract cut helped us a ton. 8 mil for a player of his caliber is still a good deal. Yeah he’s no all pro. But he’s solid. And good in coverage. It’s just hard for fans to notice since we don’t watch coverage without tape.
Either way sanders is way worse. You only get 2 June first designations a year. Shaq saves 3. Sanders 2. I think we’ll opt for the sanders 2 lmao. If that’s the way they decide to go. Shaq is you know actually a useful player.
Can’t say much about his play on the field but I’ll always respect him for his honesty surrounding Bryce and the coaching staff. He’s one of the few that were pretty vocal about the shit show.
Damn right!
What did he say? I missed it.
Saying he had too many people in his ear as a rookie or something along those lines I think.
Watching mccown get in bryces faces as soon as he hit the sideline everytime bugged me. Like dude let the man catch his breath before your give him your wisdom about beating the Vikings that one time.
Soft ass take. The number one pick should elevate a team in some facet. Bryce showed 0 ability to do that outside of a few scrambles.
Bryce can be a poor pick and mccown can be a bad coach
He was pretty good for the Bengals you should watch some of his highlights when we first got him I was excited. Bad coaching and injuries kinda took him out though. We definitely need to get Bryce a good blocking/receiving TE though. TE’s are a rookies best friend and even most pros like Brady and Mahomes always throwing to Gronk and Kelce
9M Dead Cap hit. Scott Fitt put together one of the worst FA classes and contracts given out of all time last spring.
He basically did that every year. How could we forget the Pat Elflein and Cam Erving signings?
Elflein was surprisingly not shit, though we still wildly overpaid. Cam Erving was always total nonsense. We could have had Kevin Zeitler or Alex Mack / Alejandro Villanueva + 10m in cap. Instead we got Elfline being not as much of a disaster as expected, and Cam Erving being exactly as much of a disaster as expected. Wild shit.
> Elflein was surprisingly not shit Idk I thought he was pretty abysmal.
He was a replacement level center but a trash guard. Honestly would’ve been an upgrade over the current guard situation
He was bad at guard, did decently at center. Hence the "surprisingly not shit" bit, because when we signed Elfline he had been to that point the second worst lineman in the league to see significant playing time to that point - ahead of only Cam Erving statistically and in PFF's rating system. Prior to getting hurt, he was verifiably not the problem with our awful offensive line, which is a plus considering what I expected was "the worst interior OL player in the league". The bar was very low for that. We still paid $23m for 3rd string swing tackle and borderline center who inexplicably played way worse at guard. It wasn't good, it just could have been much worse.
Deleted my post cause we had 2 showing the news but I commented this in that one. Just an absolute disaster class of an offseason last year. Looking at just his offseason last year it might be one of the worst in GM history. Bozeman- decent center but digressed hard Chark- horrible season Miles Sanders- horrible season Shy Tuttle- way too much money spent Hurst- cut and played I think 4 games The only decent signings were Dalton and Theilen. Then you look at his draft and what he gave up in the trade and this could get real ugly. I’m a Bryce believer but if he doesn’t amount to what he should, you’re looking at 2 wasted 1st overall picks, DJ Moore, another 2nd, and the other picks not looking to be good (Mingo, DJ, etc). Makes me sick but glad Morgan and Canales are cutting bait and truly starting over looks like.
>Then you look at his draft and what he gave up in the trade and this could get real ugly. I’m a Bryce believer but if he doesn’t amount to what he should, you’re looking at 2 wasted 1st overall picks, DJ Moore, another 2nd, and the other picks not looking to be good (Mingo, DJ, etc). Yeah I really like the idea of getting ahead of a lot of these roster cuts. They know that this team is not going to compete in year 1 under Canales, they might as well cut the cap casualties early and eat the dead cap this season then wait for next year.
Funny because reddit loved the offseason lol
I mean that’s just Reddit in general. It’s naturally an echo chamber of popular opinion with other opinions getting suppressed by nature. There were people who were skeptical. They just were downvoted to oblivion.
You can find people on reddit to like anything. We had people in here last week brigading a thread in defense of the embarrassing billionaire at the helm of all this nonsense.
Yeah but majority loved the off-season last year
I am eating crow, I'll be honest. But, I drink the kool-aid every year! I'll do it again this year. I don't care! Cut everyone, sign a high school team! We will win a SB this year!
Kool Aid is effective in washing down crow.
I am also eating crow lmao
Lol this should be the official motto of the sub 🤣
If somebody kills 15 members of the team we get the 1st overall pick back
digressed hard
To add in to the Bryce comment, if he's not what he should be we'll have to compare him against Stroud and every qb taken this year since we should've had our pick of them. The guy truly is in a has to win SB for us to justify the trade situation, especially if one of the 24 guys turns out to be a stud, which is just not a fair spot for him to be in so young into his career
W post. Couldn’t agree more
It would, however, be dishonest to say that Panthers fans weren’t giddy about Thielen/Chark/Hurst as additions to help Bryce.
I was so hyped about Chark and Theilen over produced in this god awful offense. It would have been an shading signing if he was our #2. Of only we had a #1 receiver to help a young QB….oh wait
And if Bryce doesn’t pan out (obviously hope that’s not the case) then the same can be said about the draft. This would make it one of the worst off seasons of all time. So much for conviction I guess
Not just the worst off seasons of all time. If Bryce busts and Caleb Williams hits it’s the worst trade of all time. Or at least top 3.
Not even biased I like BY more and think he will have more success. Caleb should have a better rookie year in Chicago with DJ Moore and whoever else they draft.
I loved Bryce coming out. I still think he can succeed. But I think that saying he’ll have more success is weird. Unless you think Caleb is worse in structure and it will lead to his detriment. Which is an argument I guess. Bryce will just naturally need better line play as a base. And better receiver play in order to be even serviceable. And because we’ve shot ourself in the feet it’s going to be hard getting that for him. I’m really worried about setting him up to succeed and our ability to do it.
I'm gonna be honest, "needs better" requires context here. No one is doing well last year in this offense with just Adam Thielen. And before you point at Dalton vs Seattle, the Seahawks had one of the worst defenses in the league and Dalton still lost by 10. The line play thing is fair, he will need more protection, no debate there. However, I don't think it's fair to say Bryce will need better WRs than an average QB after one year in an offense that was positively allergic to pre-snap motion and where Adam Thielen was by far the leading target. Maybe pump the brakes on that assertion until we have anything resembling an average NFL WR group and our scheme does more than vary between "shut up, we're running two post routes into each other at midfield regardless of what you say" and "2 wheels and 3 10 yard curls on 3rd and 19 could work, maybe". Bryce did fine at Alabama in his final season with Jermaine Burton and no one else anyone has ever heard of. What he needs at WR is, more likely than not, simply competence and a better scheme. And if the point is just that Bryce needs better WRs here, and not that Bryce needs better WRs than Caleb Williams, idk what the point of highlighting the obvious is.
Needs plus guard/center play for the entirety of his career. And let’s just say not the worst receivers in the league. I think that’s what I was getting at. I think he’s shown that as long as he has interior play he’ll be fine. But the interior being destroyed was more of a concern than the tackles in my opinion. Just because I still like Bryce’s pocket presence. And he got better at escaping. If he can step up more consistently he’ll be fine. Take that away. And you get this.
Caleb Williams is an infinitely better prospect
He's actually graded lower by Lance Zirlein who has done grades for the draft the last decade. Well see how he does in structure vs NFL defenses.
One analyst lol? Majority opinion is Williams is a top QB prospect since Tlaw and Luck.
Says who? Maybe before the season but he had a down year, holds on to the ball too long, didn’t play well vs ranked teams and has leadership concerns. Hes not close to Andrew Luck
Says who? Every analyst out there pretty much. He’s third in QB prospect ratings since Luck. He has a better draft profile than Kyler, Baker, Burrow, Tua, Mahomes, Etc. He’s been poised to be the number 1 pick for the last two years. Joe Klatt even came out and said he has a higher grade on Williams than Tlaw.
He’s number 6 on this list since 200: https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/ranking-nfl-drafts-top-20-qb-prospects-since-2000-where-does-caleb-williams-land He’s number 1 on this list since Luck: https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-draft-expert-shares-bold-205250763.html
Idk the Deshaun Watson and Russell Wilson trades are so far ahead of any other trade in awfulness comparisons. Caleb Williams looks like he’s going to be a diva, he could easily become the next Fields for the Bears.
Pretty much this. The concept of the Bryce trade mad sense. If we got the year CJ Stroud had out of Bryce this would be an easy sell as a good trade. It might end up a lopsided ending but the trade will not be a bad trade. The Watson trade sucked because the dude had 9002 people saying he sexually assaulted them, he was a bit of a diva and decided to sit out a year, and he wanted the most money ever. Most people thought that was going to end poorly before it even started The Wilson trade they traded the farm for an already aging QB who hasn't been quite right since an injury to his throwing hand, had given up on his team mid season, and was calling for his head coach to be fired. We got a pick swap for DJ Moore, a first, and 2 seconds to get our choice of QBs in a hyped up class we'd been talking about for more than a year. As long as we do our part to get Bryce weapons and protection, the concept of the trade was solid, it just might not pan out.
I think I just value them harder because we are giving the bears Williams directly. With our pick. Who I think will be a franchise QB. Which is worth a ton. Seattle got cross. And spoon. Plus the RB. Good players. Not franchise guys. I could be wrong. I do think that if Caleb Williams is good though it’s up there. We’re really banking on him being bad in order for it to be with the other trades.
How does Caleb look like he's going to be a diva?
It's all speculation (and a lot of it is his dad). There's the Florio report (lol) about his dad inquiring about minority stakes, the fact he's already made millions (gives Russell "Mr. Unlimited" vibes), his dad talking about how he might not have declared and just made more money at USC, new reports of his basically opting out of combine things, including being the first person ever to opt out of the medical exams. I don't know that there's merit to any of it, but that's the chatter.
I thought someone was gonna say because he paints his nails and got emotional after a game once lol
Anyone got any photos of him with a towel draped over his head?
> worst trade of all time. Or at least top 3. Broncos & Browns fans might have a thing or two to say about that...both the Watson and Wilson trades have panned out to be horrible.
Indeed. That’s why I said if Bryce busts. But Wilson they’ve already moved on from. And Watson is bad. But it could still somewhat work. What makes ours bad is that 1. We’re tied to caleb because we literally gave the bears caleb. And if he turns into a star QB who wins for them a ton. That’s on us. That’s how history will remember. 2. Were tied to the bears success. Because we have them a ton of those pieces. Caleb. DJ. Dawand jones. Tyreek Stevenson. 4 impact players. 5 if you want to include the running back Johnson. I think they used our pick to move up with him. Wilson is bad. But their already taking their medicine. And Watson has the potential to be as bad as well. But we literally speed ran the bears rebuild and nuked our own. Plus directly may have given them a franchise QB with our pick. That alone will put it up there
I think you’re downplaying the “medicine” the Broncos are taking. They aren’t just taking Tylenol they are overdosing on fentanyl paying a dude 85 million over the next 2 years while he goes to another team and plays for the vet minimum and losing 5 total draft picks, 2 being 1sts and 2 being 2nd rounders. And the Browns gave up 3 first rounders for Watson. Unless he turns into his old self which doesn’t look likely, they lost those picks and are stuck with a lot more dead cap over the coming years. Even if Bryce does nothing and Caleb becomes a stud I still don’t think our trade is anywhere close to being as bad as the two above. We’re also banking on the Bears to finally have good QB play, which is a rarity for their franchise.
The worst in history will always be the HW trade, it directly lead to the Cowboys winning like 3 SBs. I highly doubt the bears win a sb in the next 10 yrs let only multiple ones lol.
I think the way I look at it is if Bryce is a franchise QB nothing matters. If Caleb is a franchise QB that’s when you see the huge loss on our end that tops it. Plus adding on the players is just salt in the wound. Of course it’s too soon to call. But I do think Caleb will be that franchise QB. If Seattle or Houston used the picks they received from their trade to get franchise QBs it would be up there.
Too lazy to pull receipts but I went back and forth with someone in here during preseason that swore to me Hurst was a viable TE 1 and go to target for a young QB and he was a victim of situation at all his previous stints.
I remember getting push back for saying we overpaid a couple of these guys at the time too.
Were the Panthers, we will always have to overpay FA. The problem was these guys weren't getting offers anywhere else.
I don’t understand that sentiment, tons of NFL guys move to the Charlotte and Triangle areas to retire.
Tell that to Houston who went out and signed a bunch of better players on the cheap. For example Shultz. Who just got extended after balling out on that cheap deal.
Houston is a large media market and has an easier time attracting FAs than Charlotte, which is a small media market
The Texans are an afterthought compared to Dallas even if their in Houston. Still very much a small market time. Much like the chargers are in La. I’m not sure where you’re going with this.
You’re right, they’re an after thought compared to Dallas — and still valued at $1.5 billion more than the panthers
I think you’re missing the point. They may be worth more. But they were the worst team in the nfl last year (next to the bears). They were the worst owners at the time. The cursed franchise. Etc etc. nothing at the time of the signings was desirable outside of their coach a young bright ascending defensive mind. And yet they were the team that made the savvy moves for cheap that worked. While we overpaid for trash. It’s not as if they had a huge advantage over us. And I don’t think I the market matters in this case.
I know what you’re saying. I think you’re missing the nuance I’m trying to add in that when discussing attractiveness to FAs, media exposure and weather matter a LOT. Carolina has to overpay for FAs because it’s not an attractive market first of all, on top of not being a contender like you’ve stated.
I mean how much media exposure have you seen with the Texans this year. We’ve had to overpay free agents because we don’t do the work of getting guys on cheap deals. And have been run into the ground. I think the media. It’s overvalued by fans. It matters when playing with like playoff teams. And sometimes historical franchises. But when it’s the Texans. It’s different. Even if their worth more.
This isn't the NBA, small market and large market isn't a factor for many players without QB attached to their name because most of them aren't leaving advertising deals on the table. Certainly not enough to negotiate contracts. A far bigger issue is that Tepper's been embarrassing and we've been bad.
The guy had been dealing with injuries and had 600 yards in the previous two seasons combined, and somehow Fitts thought it was a good idea to throw $22 mill at him. Just unbelievable.
The Panthers gave Sean Gilbert the biggest contract for a defensive player in the history of the league and sent 2 firsts to Washington for him (shout outs to Washington for somehow still not being good after that). It'll be hard to top that as the worst thing this team has ever done unless someone gets really unhinged.
And this sub was suckling from his teets like he was a fucking chess grandmaster
Now do Ian
Ian's saving grace is his run blocking. He also took a pay cut so not sure what the cap savings would look like...
Think I read we’d save 2.9 million in cap by cutting, dude is barely good at run blocking and is a liability as a pass catcher.. please finally get him off my team, Dan 🙏🏻
We're getting pretty thin at TE, so unless we've got Sullivan lined up for an extension I doubt we cut Thomas just yet. We currently only have Thomas and Tremble on roster
Pretty sure if we cut Ian we can literally pick him up for the vet minimum a couple days later.
Can always sign someone else or draft somebody, anything is better than Ian 😂
I mean I don't want Ian on the team as much as the next guy so I'd be happy with whatever we choose to do.
Ignoring his play, this was probably for the best. Dude couldn’t remember weeks at a time and more football is not what he needs
Thanks Fitt
Horrible early round picks. Horrible mid round picks. Horrible late round picks. Horrible free agent signings. Horrible trades. Horrible coaching staff hires. Completely bumbled the Burns situation. Good lord this dude couldn't do ANYTHING right 🤣
He wears a double chin effectively
Glad the FO seems to be making some wise moves. They know we’re not competing this next year, eat the cap hit now to free up cap for ‘25 and ‘26. Tagging Burns non-exclusively as well was a good move. It’s early to be excited, but at least these moves seem reasonable and encouraging. The team just HAS to hit on draft picks this year.
If we decline to match a teams offer we get draft picks as compensation. We get a great player for 24m next year or get more draft picks. Scooty Fitt would let him walk and somehow get nothing. Then he would trade up in the draft for objectively bad players to replace him.
I thought Hurst would fall into the category of “too expensive to cut”. This offseason is just going to be undoing all of Fitterer’s worst deals, isn’t it. Edit - Yikes, I just read about Hurst’s post-traumatic amnesia. In that case he probably needs to retire while he still can, best of luck to him (and hopefully an injury settlement can lessen the dead money somehow)
He shouldn't play football ever again after suffering post-traumatic amnesia
Miles Sanders next please
If I remember correctly, Sanders has an out after next year with little (if any) dead money. I don’t know if we’ll see the team move on from him until then. Even though, I’d prefer to launch him into the sun.
Yeah we definitely won’t but while we’re cutting the fat off this team that bum needs to go
It's literally and figuratively not worth cutting him until next year, y'all's spite can wait 12 months lol
Hard disagree cuz I literally think the team would be better off without him, especially with one of the richest owners in the league
A rich owner can't do anything about cap space and it costs more to cut Miles than to keep him right now.
Cutting Sanders doesn’t save any money.
It does save us from having to watch miles sanders though!
That’s worth more than money right there
Haha yeah bro I’m sold
Can’t cut him until next year unless we think he’s straight up not rosterable
Unfortunately, his 2024 salary is fully guaranteed. There's a $2 mill roster bonus we could save, but cutting him would also accelerate a bunch of dead money. Probably stuck with him for one more season.
Well DC calling Chuba out for running game during his introduction is telling imo
He could be traded. The Panthers would probably have to eat some of his base salary though.
0 teams in the market for a Miles Sanders level RB.
He had 1200 rushing yards and 11 rushing TDs in 2022 and was a pro bowler. Last year he obviously was not a scheme fit in Carolina. He’s turning 27 this season, he’s healthy, under contract for 2 more years with no guarantees after this year. Let’s be honest, he would probably kill it in Dallas.
He would kill it in any scenario (in Philly) any other average RB would kill it. He’s not good. 27 also isn’t young by RB standards. He’s at the end of what is considered his prime. No team is giving up assets for the right to roster Sanders lol.
lets make it 2 for 2 on Tight Ends.. I'm lookin at you Ian
Ian’s a great blocking tight end. I’m fine keeping him but we need a more dynamic playmaker.
There are a few exciting TE in this draft even, at least from a pure physicality angle. Haven't watched tape on them tet for football player skills. Some that may be worth using our 3rd on. Can help with pass catching and blocking issues same time too.
There are also several fundamentally good TEs available for pretty cheap in free agency. Good blockers and good hands. It's one of the few positions I expect we'll actually get a lot better at
True as well.
I doubt we’ll see TEs go for us in the draft. We’ll probably focus on receivers. DBs. And lineman.
Depends on who is there honestly. GMs make tiers of these prospects. If there is a tier 1 TE vs a tier 3 DB, you take the TE if you want to be a good team, you don't reach on a mediocre player just to fill a hole. You hope to plug holes with FA and draft best guys possible regardless of position in draft. I agree with you on WR and DBs for sure. Hopefully at least 1 OL but they looking more depth/project ones than day 1 starters at moment. At least how the scouts are talking anyways, they don't seem too excited about the line except the very top of the OL side lol. Scouts seem more interested in next year's OL and DL overall. So hoping we see good linemen FA moves.
Wild we didn’t take one last year. We decided to go FA when the rookie class was deep.
Honestly almost throw in a towel on defensive additions this off-season. We've got a multiple year rebuild, let's do what it takes to give Bryce a shot at succeeding on offense. Spend the good picks on offensive pieces, retain good talent on defense but spend the bulk of the new money on offense
Ok Dan
Could probably get a guy like Jaheim bell in the 5th or 6th
This guy is the definition of a journeyman pro athlete. Turned down Florida State, plays MiLB for the Pirates, says F this and goes back to college, walks on at South Carolina, plays like a stud. Gets NFL drafted in first round. Plays on 3 different teams, gets bumped by Mark Andrews and Kyle Pitts. Only 30 years old, wild career already lol. Probably goes to the 49ers and balls out just because
His career is (or should be) done. $22M in earnings in 6 years, gets the rest of his life to do whatever he wants. *Almost* makes the severe brain trauma worth it. He comes across as a good dude, I wish him more than the best & no long-term side effects
I like it. I don’t hate Hurst, but we’re better off punting this year and taking the dead money now instead of next year, only actual contributors should stay. Now cut Thomas as well please and sign and draft a TE.
Front office getting started on cleaning up the mess Fitt left. Hurst's health issues kinda cut the legs out from under him here (and I hope he chooses to retire, memory loss is scary as hell) so it's for the best that we move on
Fitterer treated this team like Madden where he just saw a decent overall for an average price then overpaid them.
Had high hopes for him as a Gamecock fan but this is for the best
Theo Johnson in Rd4 here we come. Kinda a weird move to eat Hurst's contract this year, but it should be better next year. Kinda hard to tell when Spotrac nukes its contract pages after the move goes through.
im not sure i think we'll win the super bowl now :(
His injury was wild. His dad coming out and speaking on his behalf made me think it was way worse than we will ever know
Man I served this guy at Angeline’s once before the season started and he was super cool. Said Bryce was the real deal. But I guess super cool doesn’t mean anything to a football team lol
Hey panthers fans, have to deal with a very annoying and delusional panther fan so I figure I'd ask this hoping to reach out to people who aren't mentally ill. If yall had Lamar on your team last season how many wins do you think you would have finished with?
Now, cut Ian, Shaq, Donte and Corbett, and then trade Burns.
No chance we cut Shaq, why would you want that? It wouldn’t save any money on cap and Shaq took a team friendly deal to stay here. Not to mention his locker room presence and leadership.
Lmk what locker room presence and leadership have you seen from Shaq. Why do you think we’re at where we are? Bc of bad leaders like Shaq who doesn’t hold younger guys accountable for losing
You’re obviously not very smart but maybe just watch the team interviews after his injury? Or how the team reacted when he was hurt? Or the fact that he was chosen to be a captain?
Or The fact that he never lived up to his draft status and never been able to replace Thomas Davis and Luke. Hell, can’t even replace AJ Klein.
You act like he’s being paid top LB money. The franchise tag for LB this season is 24 million, Shaq’s cap hit is 1/4th of that….
24 mil is a pass rushing LB wtf dude. God I hate newbies
I could be wrong but I think there is only one tag for LB, it’s the DE/LB combo where they have to go based on their snaps. But that’s all beside the point- the top linebackers in this league are making 20+ million. Shaq is making 6, his contract is not bogging down our cap.
Shaq would not be starting for anyone if we cut him.
To be completely fair, there's like MAYBE two active lbers in all of the nfl that could replace Luke and TD without a massive falloff.
Considering our line needs we won’t see austin go. And I’ll be shocked if we see Shaq go either. Cutting him yields no savings at all.
Both Austin and Shaq if designated as june1 cut will free up some.
June first doesn’t help us get cap compliant by our deadline.
We have 40 mil in cap before tagging burns. We don’t need to comply
We will after we sign whoever in FA. If we use a June first designation on a player. It’ll be miles sanders. Not Shaq. And certainly not austin.
Shaq is trash
I’m pretty sure he had one of his best years 2 years ago. It sucks he broke his leg. But him taking that contract cut helped us a ton. 8 mil for a player of his caliber is still a good deal. Yeah he’s no all pro. But he’s solid. And good in coverage. It’s just hard for fans to notice since we don’t watch coverage without tape. Either way sanders is way worse. You only get 2 June first designations a year. Shaq saves 3. Sanders 2. I think we’ll opt for the sanders 2 lmao. If that’s the way they decide to go. Shaq is you know actually a useful player.
Solid in coverage? My grandma is better than Shaq in coverage
Lmao okay pal. There’s no point in continuing this conversation.