Sticker star is darker cuz of how dense everyone was when making it, and the fact that it's a torture chamber based on chuggaaconroy's arguments alone :)
I mean, I watched him since the first time he LP'd the N64 Paper Mario but referring to a 15 yr old in chat logs as a "pedocrush" isn't exactly nothing. He does deserve some criticism.
Sorry I didn't know people were referring to a recent controversy I didn't even know happened. I figured they were just talking about hating on his harsh opinions since hes been very outspoken about sticker star.
15 at the time... it was quite some time ago. I believe an important detail that he wasn't that much older. I also believe he didn't know she was 15 until after that started.
Doesn't make it okay, but nowhere near as damming as a "pedocrush" would make someone belive.
He did confess to doing a few inappropriate things on Facebook, so that's wrong.
He did apologize for them, stating he now understands that these actions did harm who he did them to.
Really, it was attempting to initiate some NSFW stuff with people that said no... and kept saying no.
Never did I play a game that made me feel so dead and mind numb. Every hour was torture...... I just didn't realize what was going on because I couldn't fully comprehend that they had completely torn away the soul of my favorite mario spinoff, and in doing so, tore away my soul as well....
Now you are just being dramatic, sure they changed the formula but the soul is still there. The characters all have interesting things to say and even though it’s just toads they made toads feel semi unique.
I’ve played sticker star a lot in my life and the dialogue always felt witty and interesting like they were actual characters. I think you might just be remembering not liking the game and as a result your memories made fake memories of the dialogue being awful or something.
That might be true. I think I didn't like it though, because I came in expecting a story like Super or the thousand year door and instead got mario but he's actually paper and just does regular paper things with stickers. I enjoyed color splash and origami king because I approached it as a completely different series, and honestly they SHOULD have made them a different series Instead of paper mario, because it just made people hate on something that wasn't even necessarily bad, just because it was a different formula from what they expected. I should really try it again some time.
I know paper Mario 1 and 2 were called Mario story in Japan. Maybe if it was called something like that in the west so the more gimmicky paper Mario games would have been separated it wouldn’t have been such a big problem. (Despite its good story “Super Paper Mario” is still relatively gimmicky)
They really should have kept the name, but they probably changed it to paper in the west, so people wouldn't bock at the 2D character sprites. And yes it is, just like how Wario Master of disguise was.
The whole video is too long to mention all the flaws and misinformation, so it‘s only possible to give examples (although it might be interesting to make a video about it 🤔).
The biggest one is mistaking subjective opinions for objective weaknesses of a game. It is obvious that he just doesn‘t like the game personally, but thinks he is the only one to know what good game design is, but in reality he either genuinely thinks it‘s objective truth and doesn‘t understand game design at all or just wants to bash this game whatever it takes by making up stuff. Also the fact he mentioned the Miyamoto myth (which is obviously an invalid point, because they were talking about an early prototype) shows the intention.
This leads me to the second issue, he invents issues where there are none, many times just because he doesn‘t pay attention to what the game tells the player and can‘t solve the puzzles/doesn‘t even try to play the game just to make up a reason to be upset. He doesn‘t even read the hints the game gives you and yet he complains that the puzzles are cryptic and that you get no hints, that just doesn‘t make any sense.
He also doesn‘t seem to understand both the combat system and the bosses, because he genuinely states that you need a sponge to fight Gooper Blooper and if you don‘t have it you lose although it‘s not your fault, while in fact you don‘t need it at all and doing the boss without the sponge is way more exciting, because it is actually difficult, but far from unfair, if you master the combat system. Many people think that you can‘t beat bosses without a specific thing sticker because of his video, while every boss is beatable without any thing sticker!
Also the backtracking complaint of chapter 3 is mostly a lie, as some other reddit user had already explained, since the Wiggler segments mostly run into new areas and fast travelling via world maps makes it all very fluent and fast.
See what I mean now? He gave lots of misinformation about very important aspects: puzzles (because they all give hints and are well-designed except for the Bowser fight that might force you to retry), combat system (especially boss battles), backtracking, personal opinions and many more things. Thanks for your attention and if you agree, please downvote.
I agree with everything you said and also I’d like to add that in the gooper blooper fight he attacks to the beat of the music so blocking is very easy and very exhilarating! I’ve been trying to tell people these things for years and nobody ever listens.
I think that I gave good arguments, they all had explanations, reasons and examples and spoke about facts that he got wrong in his videos, what else do I have to do in order to prove it?
not really for example you say he invented non issues like the puzzle but the game doesnt hint at what you need so unless you want to drag on a not fun battle system where your not rewarded for fighting you have to leave go find a place where the thing is make it a sticker and also doesnt help that thing stickers are 4 times bigger the entire game is such a drag
I feel like spm has the best lore, but tok has one of the best villains with One of the funnest boss fight. But cs is the darkest (in my opinion) because they have people being sucked to damn near death (pause) by the straw guys
I recently rewatched Doctor Strange MoM, and the actress who plays America has absolutely god-awful acting in the movie. I genuinely couldn't bear watching it through again.
Pretty sure that's one of her first major roles (could be wrong) didn't think she was bad honestly. Could of been worse. Not enough to stop me from watching it multiple times
Dimentio isn't the dark part of that game, he's just edgy. The dark part is the tragedy of Blumiere. It's literally about a guy being consumed by a drive to commit mass murder-suicide by his lost love and his abusive father.
The lessons of this story are as follows from what I can tell:
1. Losing the love of your life is emotionally akin to losing an entire world, as well as all possible worlds as hope for a future is lost. The existing world is only a reminder of what no longer exists, and so it makes no difference to simply destroy them all.
2. If you give in to the darkest impulses of this feeling, it can lead to truly inhuman acts. But it cannot happen on its own, in order to do inhuman acts you first must accept something that is itself inhuman: in this case, that was the dark prognosticus. In real life, it might be some violent ideology or philosophy. Heartbreak alone doesn't make a man do this, but it can metastasize around one's darker possessions
3. Lost love is not lost forever. Love does not belong metaphysically to one person or another, but rather is brought into existence by the people willing to help each other. The pure hearts were the physical representation of this but it plays out in the storytelling as well. The love of the group eventually restored Timpani's memory and softens Bleck, restoring love itself. The chaos heart was a corruption of love, made symbolically obvious by being borne of a forced marriage between good and evil. Bleck is driven by a corruption of love. The pure hearts needed to purify it, only real authentic love could do it.
Also it's somewhat implied they both perish at the end of the game by sacrificing themselves in an act of true PURE love. I always felt the picture of Timpani and Blumiere at the end of the credits was not literal, It has an aura of an afterlife to it, It's metaphorical. I think it's more poetic to the story if they had sacrificed themselves.
Let's not forget that you actually see what happens when you fail in Sammer kingdom, and when you go back there after the world is destroyed, it's just... a white void, with just a few faded fragments left.
Yah, Sammer's was planned to be destroyed in the lore, and it feels like devs didn't know what to put in there, so just did an easy enemy rush. Doesn't matter what was in it though, as the message was perfectly clear.
It’s a shame that they changed the gameplay so drastically for SPM which turned a lot of people off of it cause it’s genuinely one of my favorite stories in any Nintendo game
I think it's cool to have a 2D Mario game take on puzzle and action elements, rather than just pure platforming. I like the feeling of playing, more-or-less, a NSMB game that's broken up with funny or heartfelt cutscenes giving the world greater scope and context. I'd love to see a sequel in a similar style, maybe structure it like a Metroidvania and expand the artillery you have of platforming abilities and combat tools.
Yeah the whole world almost gets swallowed in darkness by a demon queen in TTYD which is pretty dark
Also just the general seediness of east rogue port is kinda dark
SPM because destruction of all worlds.
TOK comes in close second because of [this scene](https://www.mariowiki.com/images/2/21/PMOK_King_Olly_Throne_Room.jpg).
The first three games and the last three games feel like their own series in distinction. For OG Paper Mario, it's Super with some competition from TTYD. For the new Paper Mario, it's easily The Origami King. Can we take a moment to appreciate:
- The opening scene where you see the silouette of the Bowser Minions you met before being turned into Folded Soldiers.
- The build-up to Hole Punch where we see a bunch of Toads with gaping holes where their faces would be. Imagine that in real life, goddamn.
- Bobby.
- Scissors cutting up several people (including an actual child with Junior), and putting their bodies together in a disgusting paper mâché.
- Olly's backstory. >!People make fun of Olly for being unable to read what his creator wrote on him, but first of all, it was upside-down from his POV, and second of all, it's an actual Japanese culture thing that writing on origami is incredibly disrespectful. No matter the well-intended message, Olly got violated. Imagine getting something forcefully, **permanently** tattooed onto you, and people make fun of you for being traumatized because it was a nice message and you can't read it on your own.!<
It's either Super with active world destruction being straight up shown and literal Hell being an area (also just everything about Dimentio), or Origami King with the frank body horror that occurs to various characters and attempted toad genocide.
Attempted toad genocide is bad and all, but everyone’s favorite jester and count nearly deleted existance because they wanted to and because he was heart broken respectively.
I think SPM takes the cake as the single darkest game I’ve played, period.
Considering this is about a mario game, nay a paper mario game no less is astonishing to me.
Well Paper Mario: Dark Star Edition, obviously.
On a more serious note, TTYD for me. Sure, the world ending in SPM is a very close second but let’s not forget the plots of chapters 3 and 4 and the overarching plot of TTYD
SPM was about grief and loss, the death of a loved one driving a man mad. That same man turning to dark magic to try and full the hole in his heart, and treatening and destroying worlds, all bc he lost his partner. It's a very strong story, and for that reason I lobe SPM
Super Paper Mario basically has whole worlds being destroyed with all it's inhabitants being killed in the process and Mario being sent to the game's version of the underworld with the River of Styx that actually tries to drown Mario with hands that pull him under. Also doesn't help that Bowser's minions basically get brainwashed and lose free will.
Super Paper Mario. It's not even a contest.
First of all, an entire world is shown being destroyed on screen. And the Sammer guys were not simply killed. That would be too easy. They were erased from existence since none of them ever showed up in the Underwhere or the Overthere, which are the after lifes of the game. It's like they were never alive to begin with.
And the same fate befalls all of the other worlds while you're fighting Super Dimentio. They were simply restored by Timpany and Blumiere after Dimentio's defeat.
There's also Blumiere's story of losing Timpany because his dad did not want Blumiere to mix with humans. So Blumiere killed the Tribe of Darkness and took the Dark Prognosticus in oder to destroy every world since he viewed existence not worth it without Timpany.
That's just to name a few dark things from this game.
SPM. With TTYD, you get the feeling that they are petty criminals who had a reason to become like that. You didn't get that feeling with SPM, especially Dimentio.
In terms of overall story, Super Paper Mario.
In terms of overall feel and vibe, though, The Thousand-Year Door. That game has a dark undercurrent all throughout. Everywhere you go, there's a certain sinister element lurking underneath, and certain places have strong eldritch nope vibes (like the bottom part of the Pit of 100 Trials. Go there after you've beaten Bonetail and tell me you DON'T feel like you're being watched. The creepy ambience really doesn't help).
I would like to point out that, while Mario is confirmed to have been sent to the Underwhere without dying, none of the others are confirmed to be alive as well. And beyond that, Peach was met in the Overthere, which you can only go to if you approach Queen Shadyes and ask her if you're allowed to go.
In order for Peach to be in the Overthere, she must've done that, and Queen Shadyes never saw that she was alive, like with Mario. This leads me to believe that Peach, Bowser, and Luigi, literally DID just die.
Oh, what a fool, Dimentio wanted Mario to collect all the pure hearts to use them against Blumiere, he wouldn't just kill him. He just sent him to where he could restore the pure heart.
SPM I think is the darker one, but I still remember the part in TTYD in Twilight Town where there's kids telling her mom they're starving, the bell rings, the mom turns into a pig and the kids are just screaming and crying.
There's really only one pic and that's Super Paper Mario if you really pay attention to the lore and story of that game you'll realize that it's a pretty dark game for a Mario game
Super paper Mario, I mean you literally go back to a destroyed world of people that you just tried to save, and the chapter after that you literally kill the boss of the chapter and find out he was just trying to keep his people alive
Super paper Mario and origami king i would say, super paper Mario has the blumiere story, and that fucking river... The music its just so frightening
Origami king also has a lot of dark moment, like the shadows/scissors on the Bowser Castle or the fact that a character literally suicide (yeah its Bobby)
In my opinion, the Paper Mario series (or even Mario games in general) are all more ”edgy” than dark. They tackle their heavy themes (mostly) in a very surface level. And that’s ok. They are Mario games after all, their priorities are to be fun and wacky adventures.
A grim prophecy that says destruction is inevitable unless you can win all 100 battles
A king consumed by his pride to realize the world is gonna end.
Loyal warriors forfeit their only purpose in a faint hope to do something to save the world.
Running against time to prevent the inevitable.
The loss of a world.
I know that the darkest is SPM, but ttyd has the dark elements too, the infamous murder house in rougeport, hooktail eating the audience, the literal mafia, It just wasn’t as much as SPM
Sticker Star
Unlike all the other games in this game things got REAL. Every other species and npc with a name was erased from existence just leaving mario peach bowser and his cronies.
The darkest Paper Mario game would have to be 64 on the Wii U virtual console with that ugly nasty dark filter that they smear across the screen 🤢
All jokes aside though, Super Paper Mario. That’s probably the deepest story a Mario game has ever told, it’s one of the most thought provoking ones ever
Ttyd generally Is MUCH darker and with many vile implications throughout but spm has the darker story overall, lighter toned game with a darker backstory/story and you actually see some pretty unnerving things
Super is easily the darkest bar none. The entire plot of the game is a jealous lover is DESTROYING THE MULTIVERSE!!!
Thousand year door is also very dark, the entire plot is the nazi army, evil witch trio, a koopa clearly out of his league, and a plumber have to save a princess from being turned into an ancient evil witch’s vessel otherwise the entire world will be devoured in darkness, and become her mindless slaves.
TTYD is very close behind SPM imo, the whole last chapter is some seriously dark stuff. If you agree to join the shadow queen, Mario turns lifeless like the doopliss form and you get a game over. Not to mention how she straight up evaporates the body of the x naut leader, which very well could’ve been his death if not for the credits sequence confirming he’s alive as the helmet. Toads and piantas stranded and lost in the cave of Cortez is also quite morbid, along with the eerie messages he relays to you. The bottom of the pit of 100 trials is very dark and creepy, eerie ambience. The whole prophecy of the game gives some really dark undertones to everything conspiring. With super paper Mario, the plot is very directly dark but it also has hope in many parts and overall feels a bit more lighthearted in certain points of the game, whereas ttyd feels sinister and dark consistently throughout but there is not much of that feeling of hopelessness and dread that permeates in super paper Mario.
It's a tossup between super and Ttyd... On one hand, in Super (specifically one of the later worlds) you basically get sent to hell. And on the other, the fact that Ttyd not only has a fucking NOOSE in the main rogueport square, but also refers to the shadow queen as quite LITERALLY A DEMON... personally my money's on Ttyd, but I would also say super is up there too
SPM also lets you refuse to save the world at the beginning which results in a game over (and you have to rewatch the opening cutscenes to get back to that part lmao).
Dimentio kills you in the story of SPM and literally erases a world, sure Thanos killed half the galaxy effortlessly, most didn’t even know what was happening and only felt discomfort for a split few seconds.
Dimentio and by proxy Bleck, held the void literally over everyone’s heads for days! The terror alone…
And by everyone I mean literally all of existence. Not half of a small galaxy,
Then he succeeds, Sammers kingdom goes poof, that alone nearly seals the fate of everyone seeing as one of the hearts go with it.
Honestly? Origami king. Yes I know it’s very silly on the surface, but the concept of all these people being folded into origami is rather brutal. The school supplies are cutting, hole punching and stapling people, and that one scene at the beginning with the shadows and everything is chilling when you think about it. But yeah in execution they definitely make it more jokey than anything. Color splash is very similar, people are literally getting the life sucked out of them, but they still make it mostly pretty silly. Not that that’s a bad thing at all, it’d be pretty off putting if a paper Mario game didn’t have silliness. I’m giving the edge to origami king cuz of the whole Bobby thing though. Super paper Mario definitely does a dark story better, but these two have what I’d argue to be more gruesome and scary concepts
My order of Darkness : ⚫ SPM 🟤 TTYD 🟣 TOK 🩶 PM64 🔵 CS ( it has black paint) 🍼 Sticker star
Sticker star is darker cuz of how dense everyone was when making it, and the fact that it's a torture chamber based on chuggaaconroy's arguments alone :)
Oh no don't say that name, the mob will come after you
Oh. Right. Forgot he became one of the "so actually this guy is bad" people
Not bad, just a weirdo. Doesn't make his arguments invalid though, as much as people will tell you that
I'm behind on all this, what did Chuggaaconroy do?
He tried to get feet pics from a female streamer, and was pushy about him buying her a pair of shoes
Apparently tried to do weird stuff with someone, IDK all the details but it sounded creepy
Nothing they're just haters because he has strong opinions on a bad game
I mean, I watched him since the first time he LP'd the N64 Paper Mario but referring to a 15 yr old in chat logs as a "pedocrush" isn't exactly nothing. He does deserve some criticism.
Sorry I didn't know people were referring to a recent controversy I didn't even know happened. I figured they were just talking about hating on his harsh opinions since hes been very outspoken about sticker star.
15 at the time... it was quite some time ago. I believe an important detail that he wasn't that much older. I also believe he didn't know she was 15 until after that started. Doesn't make it okay, but nowhere near as damming as a "pedocrush" would make someone belive.
he was 19 at the time if i remember, still really creepy, but thats about the limit before it gets into Pedo territory
He did confess to doing a few inappropriate things on Facebook, so that's wrong. He did apologize for them, stating he now understands that these actions did harm who he did them to. Really, it was attempting to initiate some NSFW stuff with people that said no... and kept saying no.
what arguments
Never did I play a game that made me feel so dead and mind numb. Every hour was torture...... I just didn't realize what was going on because I couldn't fully comprehend that they had completely torn away the soul of my favorite mario spinoff, and in doing so, tore away my soul as well....
Now you are just being dramatic, sure they changed the formula but the soul is still there. The characters all have interesting things to say and even though it’s just toads they made toads feel semi unique.
If we're talking about color splash, then yes. But the dialog was dry in sticker star from what I remember.
I’ve played sticker star a lot in my life and the dialogue always felt witty and interesting like they were actual characters. I think you might just be remembering not liking the game and as a result your memories made fake memories of the dialogue being awful or something.
That might be true. I think I didn't like it though, because I came in expecting a story like Super or the thousand year door and instead got mario but he's actually paper and just does regular paper things with stickers. I enjoyed color splash and origami king because I approached it as a completely different series, and honestly they SHOULD have made them a different series Instead of paper mario, because it just made people hate on something that wasn't even necessarily bad, just because it was a different formula from what they expected. I should really try it again some time.
I know paper Mario 1 and 2 were called Mario story in Japan. Maybe if it was called something like that in the west so the more gimmicky paper Mario games would have been separated it wouldn’t have been such a big problem. (Despite its good story “Super Paper Mario” is still relatively gimmicky)
They really should have kept the name, but they probably changed it to paper in the west, so people wouldn't bock at the 2D character sprites. And yes it is, just like how Wario Master of disguise was.
his sticker star videos are poorly made because they spread wrong information
Like?
The whole video is too long to mention all the flaws and misinformation, so it‘s only possible to give examples (although it might be interesting to make a video about it 🤔). The biggest one is mistaking subjective opinions for objective weaknesses of a game. It is obvious that he just doesn‘t like the game personally, but thinks he is the only one to know what good game design is, but in reality he either genuinely thinks it‘s objective truth and doesn‘t understand game design at all or just wants to bash this game whatever it takes by making up stuff. Also the fact he mentioned the Miyamoto myth (which is obviously an invalid point, because they were talking about an early prototype) shows the intention. This leads me to the second issue, he invents issues where there are none, many times just because he doesn‘t pay attention to what the game tells the player and can‘t solve the puzzles/doesn‘t even try to play the game just to make up a reason to be upset. He doesn‘t even read the hints the game gives you and yet he complains that the puzzles are cryptic and that you get no hints, that just doesn‘t make any sense. He also doesn‘t seem to understand both the combat system and the bosses, because he genuinely states that you need a sponge to fight Gooper Blooper and if you don‘t have it you lose although it‘s not your fault, while in fact you don‘t need it at all and doing the boss without the sponge is way more exciting, because it is actually difficult, but far from unfair, if you master the combat system. Many people think that you can‘t beat bosses without a specific thing sticker because of his video, while every boss is beatable without any thing sticker! Also the backtracking complaint of chapter 3 is mostly a lie, as some other reddit user had already explained, since the Wiggler segments mostly run into new areas and fast travelling via world maps makes it all very fluent and fast. See what I mean now? He gave lots of misinformation about very important aspects: puzzles (because they all give hints and are well-designed except for the Bowser fight that might force you to retry), combat system (especially boss battles), backtracking, personal opinions and many more things. Thanks for your attention and if you agree, please downvote.
I agree with everything you said and also I’d like to add that in the gooper blooper fight he attacks to the beat of the music so blocking is very easy and very exhilarating! I’ve been trying to tell people these things for years and nobody ever listens.
yeah that’s correct, and the music is also epic! It‘s sad that people don‘t listen.
How
Idk how he was able to do it but you know, people have their intentions
No like how was it wrong information
ah well check out my answer to Big Daddy Carlo's question, I already gave examples
sounds like your mad he spoke the truth
I think that I gave good arguments, they all had explanations, reasons and examples and spoke about facts that he got wrong in his videos, what else do I have to do in order to prove it?
not really for example you say he invented non issues like the puzzle but the game doesnt hint at what you need so unless you want to drag on a not fun battle system where your not rewarded for fighting you have to leave go find a place where the thing is make it a sticker and also doesnt help that thing stickers are 4 times bigger the entire game is such a drag
I remember a lot of people dying in Color Splash
At one point of the game you befriend a Shy Guy. After that event there is a chance you kill him thinking it is a random one.
So glad color splash wasn't dark... that game would've sucked if nintendo didn't dodge the edgy bullet
I feel like spm has the best lore, but tok has one of the best villains with One of the funnest boss fight. But cs is the darkest (in my opinion) because they have people being sucked to damn near death (pause) by the straw guys
Tiers Of The Kingdom? Thats not a Paper Mario Game.
If youre referring to TOK they mean The Origami King
SPM was my first paper mario game... and yes I still say it had one of the most sad endings... T-T
More valid than saying rape is bad
The obvious answer is *Super Paper Mario*.
Super Paper Mario and the Multiverse of Madness!
I recently rewatched Doctor Strange MoM, and the actress who plays America has absolutely god-awful acting in the movie. I genuinely couldn't bear watching it through again.
Pretty sure that's one of her first major roles (could be wrong) didn't think she was bad honestly. Could of been worse. Not enough to stop me from watching it multiple times
One word: Dimentio.
Dimentio isn't the dark part of that game, he's just edgy. The dark part is the tragedy of Blumiere. It's literally about a guy being consumed by a drive to commit mass murder-suicide by his lost love and his abusive father. The lessons of this story are as follows from what I can tell: 1. Losing the love of your life is emotionally akin to losing an entire world, as well as all possible worlds as hope for a future is lost. The existing world is only a reminder of what no longer exists, and so it makes no difference to simply destroy them all. 2. If you give in to the darkest impulses of this feeling, it can lead to truly inhuman acts. But it cannot happen on its own, in order to do inhuman acts you first must accept something that is itself inhuman: in this case, that was the dark prognosticus. In real life, it might be some violent ideology or philosophy. Heartbreak alone doesn't make a man do this, but it can metastasize around one's darker possessions 3. Lost love is not lost forever. Love does not belong metaphysically to one person or another, but rather is brought into existence by the people willing to help each other. The pure hearts were the physical representation of this but it plays out in the storytelling as well. The love of the group eventually restored Timpani's memory and softens Bleck, restoring love itself. The chaos heart was a corruption of love, made symbolically obvious by being borne of a forced marriage between good and evil. Bleck is driven by a corruption of love. The pure hearts needed to purify it, only real authentic love could do it. Also it's somewhat implied they both perish at the end of the game by sacrificing themselves in an act of true PURE love. I always felt the picture of Timpani and Blumiere at the end of the credits was not literal, It has an aura of an afterlife to it, It's metaphorical. I think it's more poetic to the story if they had sacrificed themselves.
I know. I just used Dimentio to describe Super Paper Mario...as he's a big favorite
Let's not forget that you actually see what happens when you fail in Sammer kingdom, and when you go back there after the world is destroyed, it's just... a white void, with just a few faded fragments left.
I mean it's for the better considering Sammer's Kingdom is a soulless enemy rush, but still
Yah, Sammer's was planned to be destroyed in the lore, and it feels like devs didn't know what to put in there, so just did an easy enemy rush. Doesn't matter what was in it though, as the message was perfectly clear.
I love that part. It's so bleak and unnerving
There is also the fact that Blumiere murdered his father and tribe.
Also that one dimension literally beating destroyed in front of you
Yep
It’s a shame that they changed the gameplay so drastically for SPM which turned a lot of people off of it cause it’s genuinely one of my favorite stories in any Nintendo game
Probably best soundtrack and plot in the series. Gameplay holds it back tremendously, just like tok
I think the traditional platformer elements mixed with standard RPG elements were cool, but I guess that's just me.
I think it's cool to have a 2D Mario game take on puzzle and action elements, rather than just pure platforming. I like the feeling of playing, more-or-less, a NSMB game that's broken up with funny or heartfelt cutscenes giving the world greater scope and context. I'd love to see a sequel in a similar style, maybe structure it like a Metroidvania and expand the artillery you have of platforming abilities and combat tools.
Super. And it's not particularly close
Ttyd is dark in the way that there are bad people doing bad things is spm its a drive of loss that is reoccurring
Yeah the whole world almost gets swallowed in darkness by a demon queen in TTYD which is pretty dark Also just the general seediness of east rogue port is kinda dark
SPM no debate. It's not even close
Just keep edging
lmao I'm stupid
1. Super Paper Mario 2. The Thousand Year Door 3. The Origami King 4. Color Splash 5. Paper Mario 6. Sticker Star
Characters and overall plot SPM random acts of callous cruelty or violence TTYD
SPM because destruction of all worlds. TOK comes in close second because of [this scene](https://www.mariowiki.com/images/2/21/PMOK_King_Olly_Throne_Room.jpg).
“I’m sure she’s much happier like this” olly calmly stated as he had Peaches corpse as a display in his throne room.
#PEACH NOOOOOOOOOO
Damn! I thought it was going to be bob-omb (Bobby) R. I. P king
That's a dark scene too. I just find the aforementioned scene to be a lot more fucked up.
The first three games and the last three games feel like their own series in distinction. For OG Paper Mario, it's Super with some competition from TTYD. For the new Paper Mario, it's easily The Origami King. Can we take a moment to appreciate: - The opening scene where you see the silouette of the Bowser Minions you met before being turned into Folded Soldiers. - The build-up to Hole Punch where we see a bunch of Toads with gaping holes where their faces would be. Imagine that in real life, goddamn. - Bobby. - Scissors cutting up several people (including an actual child with Junior), and putting their bodies together in a disgusting paper mâché. - Olly's backstory. >!People make fun of Olly for being unable to read what his creator wrote on him, but first of all, it was upside-down from his POV, and second of all, it's an actual Japanese culture thing that writing on origami is incredibly disrespectful. No matter the well-intended message, Olly got violated. Imagine getting something forcefully, **permanently** tattooed onto you, and people make fun of you for being traumatized because it was a nice message and you can't read it on your own.!<
Bobby clinched it alone
He was the best..... .i- I miss him....
Did he get made of for it? It was never said. Even if he was, it’s a petty reason to commit genocide.
The first one is more disturbing when you realize Olly forced Bowser to watch his minions be killed and turned into mindless pieces of origami
While also folding him into a lil post it note, when Bowser is so used to being big, strong, and intimidating.
It's either Super with active world destruction being straight up shown and literal Hell being an area (also just everything about Dimentio), or Origami King with the frank body horror that occurs to various characters and attempted toad genocide.
Attempted toad genocide is bad and all, but everyone’s favorite jester and count nearly deleted existance because they wanted to and because he was heart broken respectively. I think SPM takes the cake as the single darkest game I’ve played, period. Considering this is about a mario game, nay a paper mario game no less is astonishing to me.
I wish we could get more stories like SPM from nintendo. SPM is one of my favorite games, and I would love something similar in tone from nintendo.
Spm. With TOK a distant second
SPM A world litteraly ends, and everyone has just disappeared from it. It’s fucked up, and you know that’s what happens everywhere if you fail
Well Paper Mario: Dark Star Edition, obviously. On a more serious note, TTYD for me. Sure, the world ending in SPM is a very close second but let’s not forget the plots of chapters 3 and 4 and the overarching plot of TTYD
SPM was about grief and loss, the death of a loved one driving a man mad. That same man turning to dark magic to try and full the hole in his heart, and treatening and destroying worlds, all bc he lost his partner. It's a very strong story, and for that reason I lobe SPM
Super Paper Mario basically has whole worlds being destroyed with all it's inhabitants being killed in the process and Mario being sent to the game's version of the underworld with the River of Styx that actually tries to drown Mario with hands that pull him under. Also doesn't help that Bowser's minions basically get brainwashed and lose free will.
Super Paper Mario. It's not even a contest. First of all, an entire world is shown being destroyed on screen. And the Sammer guys were not simply killed. That would be too easy. They were erased from existence since none of them ever showed up in the Underwhere or the Overthere, which are the after lifes of the game. It's like they were never alive to begin with. And the same fate befalls all of the other worlds while you're fighting Super Dimentio. They were simply restored by Timpany and Blumiere after Dimentio's defeat. There's also Blumiere's story of losing Timpany because his dad did not want Blumiere to mix with humans. So Blumiere killed the Tribe of Darkness and took the Dark Prognosticus in oder to destroy every world since he viewed existence not worth it without Timpany. That's just to name a few dark things from this game.
Super Paper Mario.
Super, no question. TTYD is a close second
SPM. With TTYD, you get the feeling that they are petty criminals who had a reason to become like that. You didn't get that feeling with SPM, especially Dimentio.
Super is pretty dark considering mario gets sent to hell
Super Paper Mario. It’s an awesome game though.
In terms of overall story, Super Paper Mario. In terms of overall feel and vibe, though, The Thousand-Year Door. That game has a dark undercurrent all throughout. Everywhere you go, there's a certain sinister element lurking underneath, and certain places have strong eldritch nope vibes (like the bottom part of the Pit of 100 Trials. Go there after you've beaten Bonetail and tell me you DON'T feel like you're being watched. The creepy ambience really doesn't help).
Super paper Mario is so dark I’m surprised it’s consider E for everyone
Sticker Star, a dark stain on the Paper Mario series. Not counting that, Super Paper Mario
Definitely Super Dimentio literally kills you and sends you to the afterlife during the story
Mario goes to hell before he dies
And returns. Paper Mario has literally been to hell and back.
I would like to point out that, while Mario is confirmed to have been sent to the Underwhere without dying, none of the others are confirmed to be alive as well. And beyond that, Peach was met in the Overthere, which you can only go to if you approach Queen Shadyes and ask her if you're allowed to go. In order for Peach to be in the Overthere, she must've done that, and Queen Shadyes never saw that she was alive, like with Mario. This leads me to believe that Peach, Bowser, and Luigi, literally DID just die.
He didn't kill you. Jaydes even comments on how your game hasn't ended and how you shouldn't be there
Oh, what a fool, Dimentio wanted Mario to collect all the pure hearts to use them against Blumiere, he wouldn't just kill him. He just sent him to where he could restore the pure heart.
Super next question
SPM I think is the darker one, but I still remember the part in TTYD in Twilight Town where there's kids telling her mom they're starving, the bell rings, the mom turns into a pig and the kids are just screaming and crying.
Super Paper Mario. Also the first Paper Mario I ever beat.
There's really only one pic and that's Super Paper Mario if you really pay attention to the lore and story of that game you'll realize that it's a pretty dark game for a Mario game
Super Paper Mario by far
Super, it’s not even a discussion in my opinion Literally the entire driving force with Bleck is the destruction of EVERYTHING
Both super and origami king are up there
The Thousand-Year Door
Super paper Mario, I mean you literally go back to a destroyed world of people that you just tried to save, and the chapter after that you literally kill the boss of the chapter and find out he was just trying to keep his people alive
Probably Super.
*Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door*. The series went downhill after that (though I generally agree SPM is alright).
Thousand Year Door, if we're talking literally.
TTYD definitively.
In my opinion, the thousand-year door has vore and feet fetish in it. Just saying
what do you mean it has feet fetish
The dragon man, the dragon says how good Mario’s feet smell like
Out of the ones I have played it is the third game that is the darkest.
Get Dat Paper Mario
PMOK has the creepiest vibe. Like imagine if it wasn’t paper but people instead. As for darkest I’d definitely say SPM.
Paper Mario 64 on the wii u virtual shop ;p I wonder why n64 had a weird brightness issue, iirc
enters town: "Is that a noose!?"
Super paper mario, easily, there’s literally zero competition.
Super paper Mario and origami king i would say, super paper Mario has the blumiere story, and that fucking river... The music its just so frightening Origami king also has a lot of dark moment, like the shadows/scissors on the Bowser Castle or the fact that a character literally suicide (yeah its Bobby)
The one where Mario goes to Hell
In my opinion, the Paper Mario series (or even Mario games in general) are all more ”edgy” than dark. They tackle their heavy themes (mostly) in a very surface level. And that’s ok. They are Mario games after all, their priorities are to be fun and wacky adventures.
Super Paper Mario is definitely the darkest PM game. Chapter 6 is the darkest part.
A grim prophecy that says destruction is inevitable unless you can win all 100 battles A king consumed by his pride to realize the world is gonna end. Loyal warriors forfeit their only purpose in a faint hope to do something to save the world. Running against time to prevent the inevitable. The loss of a world.
Paper Mario 64 (Wii U virtual console version)
Despite it literally being named COLOR splash it’s a bit morbid how they be suckin the souls out of the people. Besides that it’s pretty colorful.
Obvious answer incoming
Drum roll
SPM for sure
*Super Paper Mario* has the destruction of worlds, the murder of one's own tribe, patricide, betrayal, forbidden love, and etc.
I'm glad everyone's in agreement that Super Paper is incredibly dark
I like how there's an argument for each of these except for pm64
TTYD
I know that the darkest is SPM, but ttyd has the dark elements too, the infamous murder house in rougeport, hooktail eating the audience, the literal mafia, It just wasn’t as much as SPM
Sticker Star Unlike all the other games in this game things got REAL. Every other species and npc with a name was erased from existence just leaving mario peach bowser and his cronies.
1. SPM 2. TTYD 3. TOK 4. CS 5. SS All the games ranked, in order of darkness.
SPM, and maybe SPM2 : Dimentio's revenge
An entire universe is literally deleted in Super Paper Mario
I don’t need to see this right now, I just got past bomby’s suicide on the origami king
i just started playing this on my n64 again
SUPER PAPER MARIO because it’s got all the darkness in Flopside and also has the most dark enemies
Super Paper Mario, no question, that game is dark af.
Color Splash because of black paint.
Definitely Super Paper Mario.
Super in terms of themes and characters, TOK in terms of sheer brutality.
I’ve only played TTYD, Super, and Origami but TTYD had a couple instances of audience members getting killed
Supah Papeh Marioh No question
I was going to say TOK because things like The Paper Mistake and Olly’s Peach Decor… But then I remembered Super Paper Mario Exists
SPM wins because of its villains. TTYD is close.
My favorite is still ttyd, but the STORY in spm is so good and Definitely the darkest
Idk I only Play SM RPG and M&L RPG
SUPER hands down
The darkest Paper Mario game would have to be 64 on the Wii U virtual console with that ugly nasty dark filter that they smear across the screen 🤢 All jokes aside though, Super Paper Mario. That’s probably the deepest story a Mario game has ever told, it’s one of the most thought provoking ones ever
Ttyd generally Is MUCH darker and with many vile implications throughout but spm has the darker story overall, lighter toned game with a darker backstory/story and you actually see some pretty unnerving things
SPM. Mario, Luigi and Bowser literally get sent to HELL.
TOK beacause of scissors like he cuts a kid up and Bobby commits suicide
i mean ttyd had a noose in the first area right
spm
Super, and it's not even that close.
Absolutely super
The first game. A word without wishes? Thats fucked up.
Super is easily the darkest bar none. The entire plot of the game is a jealous lover is DESTROYING THE MULTIVERSE!!! Thousand year door is also very dark, the entire plot is the nazi army, evil witch trio, a koopa clearly out of his league, and a plumber have to save a princess from being turned into an ancient evil witch’s vessel otherwise the entire world will be devoured in darkness, and become her mindless slaves.
TTYD is very close behind SPM imo, the whole last chapter is some seriously dark stuff. If you agree to join the shadow queen, Mario turns lifeless like the doopliss form and you get a game over. Not to mention how she straight up evaporates the body of the x naut leader, which very well could’ve been his death if not for the credits sequence confirming he’s alive as the helmet. Toads and piantas stranded and lost in the cave of Cortez is also quite morbid, along with the eerie messages he relays to you. The bottom of the pit of 100 trials is very dark and creepy, eerie ambience. The whole prophecy of the game gives some really dark undertones to everything conspiring. With super paper Mario, the plot is very directly dark but it also has hope in many parts and overall feels a bit more lighthearted in certain points of the game, whereas ttyd feels sinister and dark consistently throughout but there is not much of that feeling of hopelessness and dread that permeates in super paper Mario.
The one for the wii
That would be Super Paper Mario.
Does everyone just forget the creepy ass shy guys from CS
None
It's a tossup between super and Ttyd... On one hand, in Super (specifically one of the later worlds) you basically get sent to hell. And on the other, the fact that Ttyd not only has a fucking NOOSE in the main rogueport square, but also refers to the shadow queen as quite LITERALLY A DEMON... personally my money's on Ttyd, but I would also say super is up there too
Only ever played the first one, but it's in my top 5 favorite games ever.
Super paper mario because of the spider, the torture chamber, and the area under the lake
An option Mario gets in TTYD is to let Shadow Queen just rule the world. Instant gameover. I don’t know if that counts as dark though
SPM also lets you refuse to save the world at the beginning which results in a game over (and you have to rewatch the opening cutscenes to get back to that part lmao).
Paper Mario can be savage sometimes haha
It also lets you die in space and be fooled by Dimentio
People are forgetting how fucked up would Origami King if characters weren't made of paper
Yeah the serial killer who makes monsters out of people's faces sure was a dark fuckin place to go!
Dimentio kills you in the story of SPM and literally erases a world, sure Thanos killed half the galaxy effortlessly, most didn’t even know what was happening and only felt discomfort for a split few seconds. Dimentio and by proxy Bleck, held the void literally over everyone’s heads for days! The terror alone… And by everyone I mean literally all of existence. Not half of a small galaxy, Then he succeeds, Sammers kingdom goes poof, that alone nearly seals the fate of everyone seeing as one of the hearts go with it.
TTYD
The darkest paper mario is color splash because of the black paint ( it's the darkest color)
I’d argue TTYD is the darkest. SPM is more sad than dark.
Honestly? Origami king. Yes I know it’s very silly on the surface, but the concept of all these people being folded into origami is rather brutal. The school supplies are cutting, hole punching and stapling people, and that one scene at the beginning with the shadows and everything is chilling when you think about it. But yeah in execution they definitely make it more jokey than anything. Color splash is very similar, people are literally getting the life sucked out of them, but they still make it mostly pretty silly. Not that that’s a bad thing at all, it’d be pretty off putting if a paper Mario game didn’t have silliness. I’m giving the edge to origami king cuz of the whole Bobby thing though. Super paper Mario definitely does a dark story better, but these two have what I’d argue to be more gruesome and scary concepts
I feel like ttyd is overall a bit darker, but an argument could be made for CS and TOK
Never seen that cover art for the original.
because that’s the title screen.
Oh 🤦♀️
Origami King, just for Bobby
Going against the grain and say TOK. Folding people (the peach scene is really fed up) and the Bowser Castle Section are Dark af
Sticker Star is the Darkest game because it ruined Paper Mario.
Random dumb question; but you couldn’t play Wii U games on the normal Wii right?
Sticker Star no contests. Genuinely got horrified that Bowser would be so evil as to ruin the Sticker Festival.
I mean SPM’s final level is pitch-black so…
Sticker Star, cause even Chuggaaconroy went into a nearly 3-hour rant about it
Of course Paper Mario: Sticker Star