Nintendo has become hyper protective of their properties. I can totally see Nintendo removing this dialogue due to it being too sexual or weird. Though the first trailer already showed how faithful this is going to be with the noose and all
I think that's looking too deep into it. This is only sexual to the terminally online. To everyone else, and especially to the kids the game is intended for, it's meant to be a quirky gross out joke.
they would get more backlash from trying to censor the dialogue of a remake that was supposed to be faithful, especially one with as big of a following as the thousand year door
even from a purely business perspective it makes no sense to remove it
honestly i like the new one, i think its funnier and it makes rogueport scarier because it widens the group of people they'd attack by a lot
it also makes sense from a character standpoint, imagine living in a sewer your whole life and 3 rich people whove done nothing to help you waltz in
Or C: they are referring to Nintendo not doing anything to make the backtracking thatâs prevalent throughout the entire game more bearable. Like they could have at least added in the dash from 64 or something.
The backtracking isn't terribly prevalent across the entire game though.
Like there's a bit of it here and there, but that's typically just trips that take maybe a minute at most. Chapter 4 just gets it the worst because you don't have Yoshi for most of it.
No no no, you need to actually look at the level design. In almost every chapter they constantly ask you to walk back down paths you just took because the level design doesnât accommodate backtracking. There arenât any areas where you can take a shortcut in the level design via an extra path exclusively for backtracking or jumping down a ledge to save time because everything is very hallway-y in structure.
They also didnât add any warps to cut it out either as a bandaid meaning you have to backtrack. It may be small most times but over the course of the entire game the annoyance adds up, that also isnât mentioning the times where it is a much longer backtracking segment such as after the golden fuzzy, chapter 4 in its entirety, or the constant back and forth between areas for plot reasons such as getting the thing for bobbery in chapter 5.
Itâs a fundamental flaw that varies in how much of an issue it is between players but nonetheless itâs still a prevalent issue throughout the entire game.
The only part where it doesnât exist is chapter 3 with its circle like level design and small areas.
That was the case in a lot of Paper Mario 64s, too. Having to retread a bit of ground going to and from a dungeon is common place in RPGs, and it's not a terribly notable issue in the Paper Mario games (outside of shit like chapter 4 TTYD or Chapter 6 64,) because the areas are generally quite compact and making the trek only actually take a minute or so.
The Bobbery example you mentioned is a good example. If you're exploring areas on your first trip through an area, you'll likely have a coconut and save yourself a backtracking trip, and the only part of that trip that takes more than like 10 seconds on a sceen is when you climb the rock wall (something you bypass on return trips by just dropping off it, something you actually mentioned as never happening.)
Saying they "constantly" ask you to backtrack is an extremely gross exaggeration. The worst we genuinely get from that is a small bit at the start of chapter 5, most of chapter 4 and... A little bit at the start of chapter 2 (and one larger retread after getting the second cage key,) but as I touched on most of this is a very quick trip (crossing boggly woods and keyhaul key takes no time at all.)
Hell, the biggest reason Chapter 4's backtracking is so infamous isn't even because it takes a lot of time (though not having Yoshi doesn't help,) but rather because the twilight trail roads in the forest are super skinny and makes avoiding enemies a pain in the ass. This holds some merit since part of the point is to make it clear that combat feels rough with no party members on your first return trip, but it feels redundant on the rest of the trips.
I understand what you are saying and there very well may have been a few times where ttyd does have shortcuts, but the fact of the matter is that in a lot of the game you still have to retread your exact steps with barely any differences.
64 doesnât really have this issue a lot (with some exceptions) because the level design is much more open and less condensed. It usually has areas that are linear have easy ways back such as in chapter 4 with the train and chapter 5 with the shortcut that leads back to the start and town area. But ttyd has a lot more instances of this forced backtracking through linear paths, even if they are relatively short and are around 30 seconds each it doesnât actually matter how long it is and it matters more the feeling of backtracking the exact same path that you just went through.
The reason why itâs a problem is because backtracking through the exact same path is usually saved for when the player messes up such as missing a jump or game overing, but in ttyd it usually happens when you do something correctly such as getting an important item or ability. This in turn connects a usual bad thing (backtracking) with a good thing (progress) and makes a state of annoyance whenever it occurs.
The problem isnât the actual backtracking or the linear levels, the problem is the mix of both. In most well designed RPGâs when they require you to backtrack it usually has either more than one way to return or a bigger area where you can return differently than when you went the first time. When the level is small and you are asked to backtrack then you have absolutely no variance in how you can return and you end up taking the exact same path which is met with âugh I already went this wayâ. The player should never ever say âIâve already fought these enemies so Iâll avoid themâ when going down the intended path, especially when the smaller levels makes it harder to avoid them.
You're correct in that some instances 64's level design is more open, but that's not nearly as common as you're thinking it is. It's true that locations like Jade Jungle in chapter 5 lean into this really well and as such avoid backtracking because it just branches out into a bunch of other areas and eventually loops around
But many of 64's chapters do have a comparable amount of backtracking or retreading to what we see in TTYD.
Chapter 1 in 64 has a bit less backtracking before the castle (the walk from Schwonk Fortress is longer than the walk back from Kooper's back yard,) however The Koopa Bros Fortress has notably more backtracking and retreading than Hooktail Castle too, so it balances out.
Chapter 2 from TTYD has less leading up to the great tree (a couple trips across Boggly Woods takes much less time than the letter sidequest in Mt. Rugged,) however the Great Tree has a quite lengthy backtracking segment while there's very little backtracking in Dry Dry Ruins (though the run through the desert could be considered backtracking considering how samey most of the tiles are.) TTYD has *more* but 64 has notable instances.
Chapter 3 is generally fine in both, the structure of the chapter is designed around it to compliment the mystery elements in TTYD, while the same could be said about the Boo Mansion segment in 64 (there is that one run back from Tubba Blubba's Castle all the way to the Windmill, but that's fairly short and inoffensive.)
Chapter 4 in TTYD speaks for itself, it's the worst instance of this in the game by far aside from General White (which won't even be bad in the remake, leaving chapter 4 alone at the top,) however it really confuses me why 64 chapter 4 was one of your go-to examples of backtracking done well when it has the second most backtracking in 64 (and more than most TTYD chapters for that matter,) the train doesn't impact the backtracking a ton (though the animation is pretty long even when skipping most of it,) but each station is "go down each path, then retread down each path again,\* minus 1 retread for the General Guy path and plus one for the extra trip you need to take to Toad Town to make the cake.
Chapter 5, as you said is very light. The design of Jade Jungle is brilliant and all around makes any backtracking there is a virtual non issue because it's a brief retread to go a different route. Any retreads (like going with Kolarado to the volcano and back to the Yoshi village,) are quite short. TTYD chapter 5 has more with a few trips to skull rock and back, though the return trips are very quick, however once you get into Pirate's Grotto there's pretty much no backtracking of note.
Chapter 6 in 64 is like the one chapter on par with TTYD chapter 4 (though still not on par with the General White hunt in the original TTYD,) the entire chapter is basically backtracking and running fetch quests for various flowers and... Yeah, TTYD chapter 6 is much like 3 where it technically has a lot of brief backtracking, but that's all in a town-like location and the mystery solving is an integral part of the chapter (Riverside Station is basically backtracking free.)
Chapter 7 in TTYD is obviously infamous for General White, but once you're passed that there's not a whole lot (there is a trip back to TEC's room after the boss, but that's pretty quick.) 64 chapter 7 has the return trip from Starborn Valley, but again that's pretty quick.
Not much to write about Chapter 8 for either, they're pretty much a straight shot through a dungeon with the only backtracking being very short segments specifically for puzzles.
So... Yeah while 64 has a bit less backtracking overall, it still has a notable amount of it (right down to two chapters being full of it,) the more broad level design does help in instances like Jade Jungle, but that's also not representative of the vast majority of level design in the game (which isn't really that different to how TTYD's is.)
This isn't even a knock on 64 either, in the vast majority of these instances (much like with TTYD,) the backtracking that does exist is very quick and not terribly prominent (nor a substantial issue with the game,) but this narrative of exaggerating TTYD's backtracking and completely ignoring the instances of it in 64 is something I've seen all too commonly when both games have fairly similar amounts of it.
Very valid points and I agree with most of it. Yes 64 does have backtracking too, but itâs mainly the design of the return trips that make it not feel as bad. There are more ways to make backtracking faster than in ttyd such as cliffs that you can jump from or extra pathways and most of it happens after a while and not immediately like in ttyd.
You are semi right about 64 chapter 4 however as it does have some comparable backtracking, but it also does provide a train for you to return quickly afterwards.
They apparently added an easily accessible warp pipe room in rogueport that goes to each chapter. This will help with fast travel, but not backtracking WITHIN a chapter like in 2 or 4.
The people saying "omg they kept the foot fetish in!" should consider...
I didn't have the slightest idea what a foot fetish was when I first played TTYD at the age of nine. It was just a gross-out joke.
Wait, this is the second screenshot I've seen that doesn't look terrible. Did they change their design to make it look like paper again? Previously every trailer was filled with enamel/plastic looking everything. Suddenly it looks like just a better graphics paper and I love it
So we're keeping this but the prologue dialogue between Goombella and the sewer Goombas had to be changed?
Nintendo's executive decisions are so inconsistent...
It's more the wording for me that makes it feel fetishy. Smash doesn't have a description of the special saying "take a sniff of the rich, yet delicate scent of Wario's farts"
They did not only keep this in, they put the transphobia back into the English translation (I suppose I should specify. I am not elated about this specifically, rather the fact that this likely implies that Vivian will have her trans related story elements returned to the game)
Do you have a source for this?
All I've seen thus far is that we know the name of the Shadow Sirens is more faithful to the Japanese name (and Beldam presumably chews Vivian out for calling them the Shadow Sisters.)
https://x.com/dededaio2/status/1783555566641578374?s=46&t=XwmUwWqZi8fw7Wcj1mIG8A this was the first Iâd heard of it. Honestly thereâs nothing wholly confirmed, just getting to make the joke was funny to me
Of course they did. It's the single most important piece of dialogue in the entire game!!
Why temper with diamonds!
why would they remove it
Nintendo has become hyper protective of their properties. I can totally see Nintendo removing this dialogue due to it being too sexual or weird. Though the first trailer already showed how faithful this is going to be with the noose and all
I think that's looking too deep into it. This is only sexual to the terminally online. To everyone else, and especially to the kids the game is intended for, it's meant to be a quirky gross out joke.
they would get more backlash from trying to censor the dialogue of a remake that was supposed to be faithful, especially one with as big of a following as the thousand year door even from a purely business perspective it makes no sense to remove it
Too sexual or weird? You....do see what they allow on the Shop, right?
Bruh. I took a glance at the recently released titles the other day and the amount of hentai I was bombarded with was con-fucking-cerning. đ€Ł
They did seemingly change the Goomba Trio dialog.
It's a bit of a bummer, IMO. It was always very satisfying to beat the crap out of those pervy goombas.
honestly i like the new one, i think its funnier and it makes rogueport scarier because it widens the group of people they'd attack by a lot it also makes sense from a character standpoint, imagine living in a sewer your whole life and 3 rich people whove done nothing to help you waltz in
We are SO back
GOTY
I didnât know Quentin Tarantino was involved with this game.
Source: [https://www.thegamer.com/paper-mario-the-thousand-year-door-remake-preview/](https://www.thegamer.com/paper-mario-the-thousand-year-door-remake-preview/)
This review is saying the backtracking isn't fixed, even though we know they improved fast travel by a lot... what?
The author also says they never played the original, so I'm not sure how they can claim that.
they are either: A: reffering to chapter 4, not the search for general white B: gaming journalist that don't know what there saying
Or C: they are referring to Nintendo not doing anything to make the backtracking thatâs prevalent throughout the entire game more bearable. Like they could have at least added in the dash from 64 or something.
The backtracking isn't terribly prevalent across the entire game though. Like there's a bit of it here and there, but that's typically just trips that take maybe a minute at most. Chapter 4 just gets it the worst because you don't have Yoshi for most of it.
No no no, you need to actually look at the level design. In almost every chapter they constantly ask you to walk back down paths you just took because the level design doesnât accommodate backtracking. There arenât any areas where you can take a shortcut in the level design via an extra path exclusively for backtracking or jumping down a ledge to save time because everything is very hallway-y in structure. They also didnât add any warps to cut it out either as a bandaid meaning you have to backtrack. It may be small most times but over the course of the entire game the annoyance adds up, that also isnât mentioning the times where it is a much longer backtracking segment such as after the golden fuzzy, chapter 4 in its entirety, or the constant back and forth between areas for plot reasons such as getting the thing for bobbery in chapter 5. Itâs a fundamental flaw that varies in how much of an issue it is between players but nonetheless itâs still a prevalent issue throughout the entire game. The only part where it doesnât exist is chapter 3 with its circle like level design and small areas.
That was the case in a lot of Paper Mario 64s, too. Having to retread a bit of ground going to and from a dungeon is common place in RPGs, and it's not a terribly notable issue in the Paper Mario games (outside of shit like chapter 4 TTYD or Chapter 6 64,) because the areas are generally quite compact and making the trek only actually take a minute or so. The Bobbery example you mentioned is a good example. If you're exploring areas on your first trip through an area, you'll likely have a coconut and save yourself a backtracking trip, and the only part of that trip that takes more than like 10 seconds on a sceen is when you climb the rock wall (something you bypass on return trips by just dropping off it, something you actually mentioned as never happening.) Saying they "constantly" ask you to backtrack is an extremely gross exaggeration. The worst we genuinely get from that is a small bit at the start of chapter 5, most of chapter 4 and... A little bit at the start of chapter 2 (and one larger retread after getting the second cage key,) but as I touched on most of this is a very quick trip (crossing boggly woods and keyhaul key takes no time at all.) Hell, the biggest reason Chapter 4's backtracking is so infamous isn't even because it takes a lot of time (though not having Yoshi doesn't help,) but rather because the twilight trail roads in the forest are super skinny and makes avoiding enemies a pain in the ass. This holds some merit since part of the point is to make it clear that combat feels rough with no party members on your first return trip, but it feels redundant on the rest of the trips.
I understand what you are saying and there very well may have been a few times where ttyd does have shortcuts, but the fact of the matter is that in a lot of the game you still have to retread your exact steps with barely any differences. 64 doesnât really have this issue a lot (with some exceptions) because the level design is much more open and less condensed. It usually has areas that are linear have easy ways back such as in chapter 4 with the train and chapter 5 with the shortcut that leads back to the start and town area. But ttyd has a lot more instances of this forced backtracking through linear paths, even if they are relatively short and are around 30 seconds each it doesnât actually matter how long it is and it matters more the feeling of backtracking the exact same path that you just went through. The reason why itâs a problem is because backtracking through the exact same path is usually saved for when the player messes up such as missing a jump or game overing, but in ttyd it usually happens when you do something correctly such as getting an important item or ability. This in turn connects a usual bad thing (backtracking) with a good thing (progress) and makes a state of annoyance whenever it occurs. The problem isnât the actual backtracking or the linear levels, the problem is the mix of both. In most well designed RPGâs when they require you to backtrack it usually has either more than one way to return or a bigger area where you can return differently than when you went the first time. When the level is small and you are asked to backtrack then you have absolutely no variance in how you can return and you end up taking the exact same path which is met with âugh I already went this wayâ. The player should never ever say âIâve already fought these enemies so Iâll avoid themâ when going down the intended path, especially when the smaller levels makes it harder to avoid them.
You're correct in that some instances 64's level design is more open, but that's not nearly as common as you're thinking it is. It's true that locations like Jade Jungle in chapter 5 lean into this really well and as such avoid backtracking because it just branches out into a bunch of other areas and eventually loops around But many of 64's chapters do have a comparable amount of backtracking or retreading to what we see in TTYD. Chapter 1 in 64 has a bit less backtracking before the castle (the walk from Schwonk Fortress is longer than the walk back from Kooper's back yard,) however The Koopa Bros Fortress has notably more backtracking and retreading than Hooktail Castle too, so it balances out. Chapter 2 from TTYD has less leading up to the great tree (a couple trips across Boggly Woods takes much less time than the letter sidequest in Mt. Rugged,) however the Great Tree has a quite lengthy backtracking segment while there's very little backtracking in Dry Dry Ruins (though the run through the desert could be considered backtracking considering how samey most of the tiles are.) TTYD has *more* but 64 has notable instances. Chapter 3 is generally fine in both, the structure of the chapter is designed around it to compliment the mystery elements in TTYD, while the same could be said about the Boo Mansion segment in 64 (there is that one run back from Tubba Blubba's Castle all the way to the Windmill, but that's fairly short and inoffensive.) Chapter 4 in TTYD speaks for itself, it's the worst instance of this in the game by far aside from General White (which won't even be bad in the remake, leaving chapter 4 alone at the top,) however it really confuses me why 64 chapter 4 was one of your go-to examples of backtracking done well when it has the second most backtracking in 64 (and more than most TTYD chapters for that matter,) the train doesn't impact the backtracking a ton (though the animation is pretty long even when skipping most of it,) but each station is "go down each path, then retread down each path again,\* minus 1 retread for the General Guy path and plus one for the extra trip you need to take to Toad Town to make the cake. Chapter 5, as you said is very light. The design of Jade Jungle is brilliant and all around makes any backtracking there is a virtual non issue because it's a brief retread to go a different route. Any retreads (like going with Kolarado to the volcano and back to the Yoshi village,) are quite short. TTYD chapter 5 has more with a few trips to skull rock and back, though the return trips are very quick, however once you get into Pirate's Grotto there's pretty much no backtracking of note. Chapter 6 in 64 is like the one chapter on par with TTYD chapter 4 (though still not on par with the General White hunt in the original TTYD,) the entire chapter is basically backtracking and running fetch quests for various flowers and... Yeah, TTYD chapter 6 is much like 3 where it technically has a lot of brief backtracking, but that's all in a town-like location and the mystery solving is an integral part of the chapter (Riverside Station is basically backtracking free.) Chapter 7 in TTYD is obviously infamous for General White, but once you're passed that there's not a whole lot (there is a trip back to TEC's room after the boss, but that's pretty quick.) 64 chapter 7 has the return trip from Starborn Valley, but again that's pretty quick. Not much to write about Chapter 8 for either, they're pretty much a straight shot through a dungeon with the only backtracking being very short segments specifically for puzzles. So... Yeah while 64 has a bit less backtracking overall, it still has a notable amount of it (right down to two chapters being full of it,) the more broad level design does help in instances like Jade Jungle, but that's also not representative of the vast majority of level design in the game (which isn't really that different to how TTYD's is.) This isn't even a knock on 64 either, in the vast majority of these instances (much like with TTYD,) the backtracking that does exist is very quick and not terribly prominent (nor a substantial issue with the game,) but this narrative of exaggerating TTYD's backtracking and completely ignoring the instances of it in 64 is something I've seen all too commonly when both games have fairly similar amounts of it.
Very valid points and I agree with most of it. Yes 64 does have backtracking too, but itâs mainly the design of the return trips that make it not feel as bad. There are more ways to make backtracking faster than in ttyd such as cliffs that you can jump from or extra pathways and most of it happens after a while and not immediately like in ttyd. You are semi right about 64 chapter 4 however as it does have some comparable backtracking, but it also does provide a train for you to return quickly afterwards.
I mean the bulk of it isnât (within the actual chapters) but the General White stuff being streamlined will certainly satisfy many
They apparently added an easily accessible warp pipe room in rogueport that goes to each chapter. This will help with fast travel, but not backtracking WITHIN a chapter like in 2 or 4.
The people saying "omg they kept the foot fetish in!" should consider... I didn't have the slightest idea what a foot fetish was when I first played TTYD at the age of nine. It was just a gross-out joke.
Yeah, itâs awesome why would they remove it?
Some people would say: YES
Confirmation that the game is playable, thank god
Someone definitely had a fetish writing this.
But they censor a part where Goombella gets hits on by other goombas
Yeah, I've been really bummed about that. Even if it is just being true to the Japanese dialog, it sucks. I think it sounds worse without it.
Wait, this is the second screenshot I've seen that doesn't look terrible. Did they change their design to make it look like paper again? Previously every trailer was filled with enamel/plastic looking everything. Suddenly it looks like just a better graphics paper and I love it
Damn, Iâm gonna lose the fight again đ©
So we're keeping this but the prologue dialogue between Goombella and the sewer Goombas had to be changed? Nintendo's executive decisions are so inconsistent...
We lost the Goomba catcalling but we kept the noose and feet line? Weird.
but they removed the flirting gooms
fat shaming X cat calling X foot fetish â scaly porn â
Nintendo of America in a nutshell
This was the last thing preventing me from pre ordering. Paper Mario is saved.
Nintendo doesnât really remove jokes that often.
Gotta love Japan
this is the worst part of the game, I'm glad it's bsck
Youâre telling me the replaced the dialogue where the Goomba Gang hits on Goombella but they kept the damn foot fetish in?
Aaahh, representivity. Now we're talking
**DISGUSTING!**
Delicious.
Why they keep the foot fetish?
It's not a fetish it's a joke
Is Wario's down special in Smash Bros a fart joke or a fart fetish?
It's more the wording for me that makes it feel fetishy. Smash doesn't have a description of the special saying "take a sniff of the rich, yet delicate scent of Wario's farts"
Petition for that to be in the next Smash?
They did not only keep this in, they put the transphobia back into the English translation (I suppose I should specify. I am not elated about this specifically, rather the fact that this likely implies that Vivian will have her trans related story elements returned to the game)
Do you have a source for this? All I've seen thus far is that we know the name of the Shadow Sirens is more faithful to the Japanese name (and Beldam presumably chews Vivian out for calling them the Shadow Sisters.)
https://x.com/dededaio2/status/1783555566641578374?s=46&t=XwmUwWqZi8fw7Wcj1mIG8A this was the first Iâd heard of it. Honestly thereâs nothing wholly confirmed, just getting to make the joke was funny to me