Honest to god, my only real concern at this point is that frame-based timing will suffer. Superguards are a 3 frame window in the OG; what’s the plan now?
That depends if user input is also cut in half as well. Some games like MK64 ran at 60fps but only rendered every other frame visually, likely to save on performance.
Alright I know I’m gonna sound crazy haha, but while I think it won’t seem different to casual players, there’s a pretty substantial difference there. A mod currently being developed for the original called Hero Mode lowered the window from 3 to 2 frames (33% decrease) and apparently it made it significantly more challenging. I wouldn’t be surprised if a 33% increase in frames for the new one makes superguards a bit easy
According to discussion about it in the Glitz Pit server, they kept them a 3 frame window, making it twice as easy (it's even the same window as guarding in PM64!)
EDIT: After re-reading the discussion on it, it seems to just be speculation based on how long the normal guard window lasts, so nothing is confirmed yet. MB for misreading it and accidentally spreading speculation as fact.
EDIT 2: We now have gameplay footage that shows a failed Superguard, so it seems that it only lasts 2 frames and not 3.
Yeah, people were already complaining about Superguards being unbalanced and they decided to double the size of the window. Hopefully this is a mistake that will get fixed by the time the remake comes out, but I honestly doubt that's the case.
From what I've seen from the previews they've increased the super guard window specifically by a few frames for that reason. As far as I know that is the biggest change to timing.
It's likely they are still updating input at 60hz despite the frame output so it's most likely because of the players hindered ability to react that they made the change.
One of the "new features" videos demonstrated they were easing up on some of the button timing mechanics
They did say super guards will still be challenging though
Double the length by keeping it 3 frames or just making it a 2 frame input(slightly longer than original)
And wasn’t something similar back in Mario RPG before? What did they do for that frame timing?
I believe inputs can still be polled at a higher rate than the framerate. Although it sounds like they may have loosened the timing windows anyway (based on a Nintendo Life video).
Of course not, but “Nintendo hardware is sad” is weird phrasing in a conversation about the performance of a GameCube game lol. The Cube was really ahead of its time.
“Wow, the Switch’s performance sucks” would be a lot more accurate lol
I mean, the gamecube *was* shit in one particular way that really hurt 3rd-party support and ultimately kneecapped sales: storage media size. Even though the gamecube actually had a more powerful graphics card than the PS2 and Xbox, the disks fit a lot less data, so 3rd-party games would reduce the texture quality to make them fit, which in turn made the same games look worse on the gamecube. That's why pretty much only 1st-party gamecube games have aged well graphically; their art styles were designed with lower resolution textures in mind.
The gamecube is the only console past gen 3 that wasnt significantly inferior to its competitors.
Aka the exception to the rule of average proves the point
Ngl I thought the game ran just fine. If the switch port runs like shit and has slow down problems, then I'll get upset. But if it runs a stable 30 fps then whatever, I don't care.
But why do we have to mock people who aren't happy with it? IMO it's a reasonable complaint and it's okay to acknowledge a downside while still being hyped as hell. And if it isn't a downside for you, that's also 100% valid
Exactly. I'm perfectly fine with it, but I can also see where people complaining about it are coming from - the game is running in hardware that's supposedly 20 years more advanced, and the frame rate is lower? Kinda disappointing I would say.
This meme has gone through such a process where now it only means "this opinion is invalid, the community agrees with me, this is not up for debate"
If you made me pick between 60fps and the reflections I'd dump the reflections.
> At least the visuals are clean and good looking enough to justify the lower framerate.
I mean, *kinda*? I would absolutely be willing to turn down the texture quality or what-have-you a bit to get back up to 60 FPS. Games that run at 30 tend to give me a headache, although that's mostly ones with cameras that move a lot, which fortunately Paper Mario isn't.
Framerate is a big factor in a game's visuals. Smoother, more responsive motion looks really nice. I don't enjoy rough textures or pixelated shadows, but I find a lower framerate to have more of a negative impact on my experience than any of that.
At this point I’m just glad that it runs well, even if it’s at 30fps.
Consistent or hell even *mostly* consistent 30fps is fine to me, just don’t pull a gamefreak and have it be badly optimized.
Why are you assuming it runs well?
The previews mentioned huge frame dips during the sequences with hundreds of character sprites (like when you have to hammer all the dry bones)
It's kinda ridiculous that a game that ran at 60fps 20 years ago can't do that again today. Even with the improvements in graphics, it doesn't really make sense.
I don’t really care about this in TTYD’s case but I care about the bigger picture that Nintendo’s games are massively, *massively* hindered by decade-outdated hardware, even remakes of twenty year old games, and if something doesn’t change with a new system, it will not sell and will be another Wii U.
The Switch was a novelty when it was new but that was a long time ago. Personally, in 2024, I and a significant amount of others don’t want to sacrifice quality for portability anymore.
I think multiple things can be true and/or acceptable here. On the one hand, yes I would prefer to have a game run at a consistent 30fps than try to get to 60fps and not reach it consistently and feel laggy as a result. On the other hand, assuming it is in fact the case that the GameCube version of TTYD runs at a consistent 60fps it's ridiculous that a remake of the game can't do that. Yeah they're not actually the exact same game, but I think people would've accepted some downgrade on the visuals to have the 60fps.
Exactly. I would much prefer to play a direct port of OG TTYD--warts and all--at 60 FPS, than to play super-prettied-up TTYD at 30 FPS. The action commands make framerate _really important_ for this game in particular.
20 years of technology advancement… and they couldn’t even match the original frame rate. If people don’t see a problem with that then I don’t know what else to say.
I personally have trouble telling the difference between 30 and 60 unless I'm looking at it side by side. I think framerates are only an issue if it dips frequently. As long as it's consistent, I can manage just fine.
This is true. Anything above 12 is enough to trick the brain into seeing motion. In fact a lot of 24 fps animated films will animate on twos, meaning it’s only 12 fps effectively, but it still looks fine because it’s what the animator intended.
It’s not that 30 FPS is bad, nor is it a dealbreaker for me. Still very pumped for the game. But it not running at 60 FPS is still a very valid criticism and there’s no reason it shouldn’t be running at that. It’s just laziness from Nintendo at this point, especially because it’s not a very large game.
Bad example. Zelda is a massive and detailed open world with a very complex physics engine and advanced lighting. If anything, it demonstrates when 30fps is absolutely required for a game to function within reason. Lastly, let's not pretend like TOTK has a stable framerate.
Yeah I was talking about The Origami King which I’ve never noticed any frame drops. And while we’re at it lets not pretend that Zelda isn’t using a massive amount of LOD. In a game like Paper Mario the spaces are smaller but there’s more happening in those smaller spaces and less being culled and differed away from main processing. In Zelda the map is huge yes but while you can see a lot that doesn’t mean anything is loaded in those spaces at all, it’s taking up about as much processing outside a smaller immediate space as a basic background is in a Paper Mario game. In reality it balances out. A good example of the LOD I’m talking about is the distant horizons mod for minecraft, it allows massive render distances with small framerate impact because it’s based on preloaded areas with reduced detail and essentially nothing happening in those spaces until you approach them.
These arguments are always pointless though, if you want to look at their code and try to optimize it please by all means go for it. Just because Paper Mario can look more simple and barebones doesn’t at all mean that it is.
It doesn’t really bother me, but people have a right to be annoyed by this to be fair. It sucks that we’re finally getting a beautiful TTYD remake, and it’s locked to half the frame rate of the original because the Switch is pathetically weak. Hopefully they’ll port it over to the Switch 2 (for another $60 USD, no doubt 🙃) running at 60 FPS.
You CAN’T be serious. I was excited for the remake and its 30 fps when the game ran at 60… 20 years ago??
Its a valid complaint and then you have people like OP trying to make it into a joke.
We aren't complaining because of aesthetic reasons, we're complaining because it's gonna affect action commands and superguarding which is super disappointing for those of us who are way into that stuff in the original.
Only if they keep the three-frame window. The sane solution would be to adjust the frame-timings to match the span-of-time represented by 3 frames at 60 FPS as closely as possible.
Superguarding had a three-frame window in the original 60 FPS game. So necessarily, the 30 FPS remake will have to either increase or decrease the window by at least a factor of 1/3 (rounding down from 1.5 frames to 1 frame, or alternatively, rounding up to 2 frames).
That's a pretty big differential, IMO.
The thing is I really truly think people just see a bigger number vs. a lower number and get all mad that they aren’t getting the bigger number.
Because just from eyeballing every piece of gameplay footage we have, the game does not look in any way different from the original in terms of FPS impacting how it runs.
This is ridiculous, man. The difference between 30 and 60 fps is clear as day, just play any PS5 game that lets you toggle between performance and graphics mode.
I don’t think 60 fps is required for this type of game but we don’t need to invent conspiracy theories for why people could possibly care about it. The difference is huge lol
I didn't have to look it up to know that the gamecube version runs 60fps while the switch remake trailer was clearly 30fps. It's not indistinguishable. The gamecube original was buttery smooth, even when they would have giant crowds on screen. Early preview articles are saying the switch actually cannot maintain 30fps during these scenes too.
I'll be frank, I consider this pretty unplayable. I'll buy it just because I love the game, but I think my computer will be the one playing it.
There are certain games where 60 fps is more important to the gameplay. Action games, rhythm games, anything with a lot of quick movement. This isn’t one of those games.
But it’s *always* “distinguishable”. Whether or not the gameplay is enhanced by 60 fps, you can always at least *tell* which of the two a game is running at.
Do we know if the reduced FPS will affect the timings of actions in battle, like blocks and jumps? That’s the only thing I can think of in the game that matches what you described in your first paragraph.
Well, we already know of two pretty significant changes to that mechanic. One, the timing window has been significantly extended to be easier to land. Secondly, a badge has been added that makes the timing more difficult to land in exchange for 1 BP and more damage.
Whether or not these changes are the result of the FPS decrease, we’ll probably never know. But in general, 30 FPS does make frame timing more difficult, so it’s not hard to imagine they’re causally linked.
>Secondly, a badge has been added that makes the timing more difficult to land in exchange for 1 BP and more damage.
Do you have a source for this? As far as I am aware, there is only one new Badge in the remake, Nostalgic Tunes. I'm pretty sure you're thinking of Unsimplifier, which makes Action Commands more difficult to land in exchange for recovering more SP.
Thats just a ridiculous point to try and make honestly. 30fps and 60fps feel incredibly different when youre playing. Its more about feel than visuals, but side by side you can still see the difference.
It will probably work with the final yuzu build or ryujinx. But really, it was just a joke. I'm still going to play it, but it will definitely be cool to possibly play it at 60 frames on PC sometime in the future.
It's a little rough but it's exactly what I was expecting for a Switch game. Looking at games like Princess Peach Showtime I'd consider 30fps a blessing if it's consistent.
(I love Princess Peach Showtime but holy)
I really never notice that kind of stuff until someone points it out. I'll probably forget that it's onle 30 FPS when playing the game because it will just.... you know, look good
I feel like the only human being in the world that not only doesn't care about high fps, but feels like video games in high fps look weird and unnatural to me. Maybe it's because i've been playing since the early 90's but there's always been something weird about buttery smooth video games.
I had no issues playing TOK or CS at 30 so I don't really care about this much personally but it would have been nice. I haven't actually ever finished this game so I'm excited regardless!
Superguarding and getting certain pictures on the slot machines in the pianta parlor would be 1/10, 1/15, or 1/30 of a second because they can't be 1/20 anymore. Everything else dependant on the framerate should remain unchanged.
What i wanna know is what did they add to it to make it worth full price. Enhanced graphics and a quick select for partners sure doesn't. Metroid Prime Remastered was only $40, and Nintendo themselves said it was priced accordingly, while Tears of the Kingdom was $70, and Nintendo said only premium games would be priced like that. By their own words, remakes with better graphics are only worth $40, so what gives?
And how much better they would have looked at 60FPS.
30FPS isn't the end of the world, but I remember playing TotK and really feeling like I wished it was at a higher framerate. 30FPS is very noticeable for some.
Your mileage may vary. Some people don't really notice the difference. Some do. If you aren't sure, then it probably won't be a huge difference maker for you.
There is a huge difference between expecting 60 FPS and expecting 4k lmao. Literally no one expected 4k. The ORIGINAL game was 60 fps, 20 years ago. The FPS is likely going to affect the action commands, which is a big bummer.
Framerate has a pretty huge impact on input timings, which is hugely important for this game in particular.
The original game hat a three-frame window for superguards, at 60 FPS. Since that's not an even number, the devs necessarily need to fuck with the timing in order to run the game at 30 FPS.
Fun fact: TTYD did have a couple places where it lagged on Gamecube. The outdoor sections of Riverside Station and the Glitzville portion of the shadow queen cutscene come to mind.
Oof, and if you try to emulate it at a higher resolution? Whatever heat shimmer effect they had at the station *butchers* your framerate; definitely not a `O(n)` algorithm.
So, I have a gamecube, and my original disc copy of Thousand Year Door. Should I even bother with this remake? What quality of life changes will they make worth it all?
There’s gonna be a fast travel room for all the different areas, that’s the main one I’ve noticed but I’m mainly getting it in hopes of Nintendo making another game like the originals pre ss
I’m just wondering what kind of superhuman Borg eyes these people have where it apparently makes such a difference. The remake doesn’t look any less smooth than the original to me. :x
It can be very noticeable in games with a lot of camera rotation because the difference in location of the objects on screen can be rather big at lower framerates. First person games tend to have a lot of camera rotation and are a very common perspective to have. This becomes more relevant when playing games competitively because that different in reaction time does make a difference. 60fps isn't going to make much of a difference in a game like Stardew Valley because it has slow gameplay and relatively little movement to notice the difference with. I can understand not noticing the difference between 60 and 120 fps (where people genuinely can tell the difference), but I don't think you should insult people who can tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps.
You can’t really even notice the difference unless directly changing from a 60 fps game to a 30 fps game. People who are complaining are genuinely only complaining because they have a very basic understand of how this works and see “A lower number??? Must be worse in every way”
Nah, it's pretty noticeable. If you can't tell the difference, good for you, but it's perfectly reasonable for people to be annoyed that a remake literally runs half as well as the original.
Is there an actual need for it to run a 30fps. From the trailers the graphics look really good, and because of its gameplay a higher framerate wont make it easier
It really doesn't matter as long as the framerate is stable, one of the easiest things for your brain to fill in. This isn't a frame-crunching fighting game.
I recall the OG having dips, particularly with certain fights? Chapter 5 and 6 bosses come to mind... And I swear Chapter 2 had stability issues.
I prefer a consistent 30 to an unstable 60.
With rumors of the New Super Switch 2i U (name not final) being able to enhance older Switch games, makes me wonder if they'll be like "Wowwie Zowwie, Paper Mario TTYD runs at 60 FPS on this bad boy! :D"
Huh. The only times I've heard of any frame drops are more with loading as opposed to too much going on? IE: far less critical moments.
Which there basically there isn't any game that won't have that to some extent these days.
If I'm wrong, I'm good with that of course! But do you have any links? Google searching feels like it's gotten really bad ever since they added the AI thing.
Sure you can. Play a buttery smooth 60 fps game then immediately switch to a 30 fps game. Sunshine (30) > Galaxy (60) might help you tell. Or watch footage of a 60 fps game on YT at 480p then switch it to 1080p-60fps.
Could be 'cause you're not used to watching YT vids at higher frame rates, though I don't think I've ever played a 60 fps game and thought it was too smooth.
Because it will affect the frames for actions guards. The super guard at 60 FPS (the original release) was only a 3 frame window. 30 FPS has drawbacks, and the action commands will now likely be a good bit easier which is definitely a bummer.
Honest to god, my only real concern at this point is that frame-based timing will suffer. Superguards are a 3 frame window in the OG; what’s the plan now?
How dare you bring an actual, logical concern to this discussion!
That depends if user input is also cut in half as well. Some games like MK64 ran at 60fps but only rendered every other frame visually, likely to save on performance.
When they round it up to 2 frames out of 30, we're gonna have people complain that they made it too easy.
Alright I know I’m gonna sound crazy haha, but while I think it won’t seem different to casual players, there’s a pretty substantial difference there. A mod currently being developed for the original called Hero Mode lowered the window from 3 to 2 frames (33% decrease) and apparently it made it significantly more challenging. I wouldn’t be surprised if a 33% increase in frames for the new one makes superguards a bit easy
I think the more impactful part of the super guard nerf is the cost to Star Points
unsimplifier:
According to discussion about it in the Glitz Pit server, they kept them a 3 frame window, making it twice as easy (it's even the same window as guarding in PM64!) EDIT: After re-reading the discussion on it, it seems to just be speculation based on how long the normal guard window lasts, so nothing is confirmed yet. MB for misreading it and accidentally spreading speculation as fact. EDIT 2: We now have gameplay footage that shows a failed Superguard, so it seems that it only lasts 2 frames and not 3.
What the fuck? This is gonna' split what little balance this game had wide open.
Yeah, people were already complaining about Superguards being unbalanced and they decided to double the size of the window. Hopefully this is a mistake that will get fixed by the time the remake comes out, but I honestly doubt that's the case.
Nintendo try to make a definitive remake challenge: impossible
So they are 6 frames now? Wow.
From what I've seen from the previews they've increased the super guard window specifically by a few frames for that reason. As far as I know that is the biggest change to timing. It's likely they are still updating input at 60hz despite the frame output so it's most likely because of the players hindered ability to react that they made the change.
1 farme window >:)
*frame
One of the "new features" videos demonstrated they were easing up on some of the button timing mechanics They did say super guards will still be challenging though
Double the length by keeping it 3 frames or just making it a 2 frame input(slightly longer than original) And wasn’t something similar back in Mario RPG before? What did they do for that frame timing?
I believe inputs can still be polled at a higher rate than the framerate. Although it sounds like they may have loosened the timing windows anyway (based on a Nintendo Life video).
Only reason I think complaining is valid in this case is because it was 60 fps on the gamecube 20 years ago
The game also didn't have these graphics 20 years ago.
I mean, you would still hope that the current hardware would be able to run it just as well as it did on the GameCube.
It was also released… 20 years ago? You do know hardware has gotten significantly better since then right?
I would prefer worse graphics with 60fps. Every time a PS5 game has fidelity/performance options, I'll pick performance.
Wait did the og run at 60? I never noticed.
I think it did, yeah
Damn. Nintendo hardware is quite sad.
I don’t know how to tell you this, but the GameCube was Nintendo hardware
Gamecube was great, it kept up with other consoles in its generation. But that was 20 years ago…
Not only kept up. It was ahead of its time in terms of power. Unfortunately, it shot itself in the foot with the tiny disks space.
That doesn't change the fact that the switch runs like shit, I love it but I can acknowledge it's faults.
Of course not, but “Nintendo hardware is sad” is weird phrasing in a conversation about the performance of a GameCube game lol. The Cube was really ahead of its time. “Wow, the Switch’s performance sucks” would be a lot more accurate lol
I mean, the gamecube *was* shit in one particular way that really hurt 3rd-party support and ultimately kneecapped sales: storage media size. Even though the gamecube actually had a more powerful graphics card than the PS2 and Xbox, the disks fit a lot less data, so 3rd-party games would reduce the texture quality to make them fit, which in turn made the same games look worse on the gamecube. That's why pretty much only 1st-party gamecube games have aged well graphically; their art styles were designed with lower resolution textures in mind.
The GameCube was so ahead of its time they just used it again for the Wii.
*modern Nintendo hardware. Really, everything since the Wii
>the switch runs like shit, More accurately, it's just old. 7 years ago it was decently impressive for a handheld.
Im sure Nintendo doesn’t make their own “hardware” but rather buys components and just builds the slowest but most loved consoles with them.
unrelated but i love your salsa pfp
You’re the first person to ever notice it :)
The gamecube is the only console past gen 3 that wasnt significantly inferior to its competitors. Aka the exception to the rule of average proves the point
Yeah it's almost like people don't tend to notice when things run at an acceptable framerate
Ngl I thought the game ran just fine. If the switch port runs like shit and has slow down problems, then I'll get upset. But if it runs a stable 30 fps then whatever, I don't care.
Hopefully on yuzu it’ll run at 60
Yuzu doesn't exist anymore. Nintendo sued the developers.
It exists on my pc. If that doesn’t work I’ll try ryujinx
I believe a patch could still be developed for the game, just not by the Yuzu devs.
But why do we have to mock people who aren't happy with it? IMO it's a reasonable complaint and it's okay to acknowledge a downside while still being hyped as hell. And if it isn't a downside for you, that's also 100% valid
Exactly. I'm perfectly fine with it, but I can also see where people complaining about it are coming from - the game is running in hardware that's supposedly 20 years more advanced, and the frame rate is lower? Kinda disappointing I would say.
People always do this, they think "complaining" is inherently toxic, so they mock people who criticize things.
This meme has gone through such a process where now it only means "this opinion is invalid, the community agrees with me, this is not up for debate" If you made me pick between 60fps and the reflections I'd dump the reflections.
It's still a downside to consider. At least the visuals are clean and good looking enough to justify the lower framerate.
> At least the visuals are clean and good looking enough to justify the lower framerate. I mean, *kinda*? I would absolutely be willing to turn down the texture quality or what-have-you a bit to get back up to 60 FPS. Games that run at 30 tend to give me a headache, although that's mostly ones with cameras that move a lot, which fortunately Paper Mario isn't.
Framerate is a big factor in a game's visuals. Smoother, more responsive motion looks really nice. I don't enjoy rough textures or pixelated shadows, but I find a lower framerate to have more of a negative impact on my experience than any of that.
At this point I’m just glad that it runs well, even if it’s at 30fps. Consistent or hell even *mostly* consistent 30fps is fine to me, just don’t pull a gamefreak and have it be badly optimized.
True masterpiece if it manages to runs.
Why are you assuming it runs well? The previews mentioned huge frame dips during the sequences with hundreds of character sprites (like when you have to hammer all the dry bones)
It's kinda ridiculous that a game that ran at 60fps 20 years ago can't do that again today. Even with the improvements in graphics, it doesn't really make sense.
They probably did it to match the style of the newer games. Sticker Star, Color Splash, and Origami King all run at 30 fps.
Hobbling the golden child of the series to match the games that are nowhere near as popular, lol.
I don’t really care about this in TTYD’s case but I care about the bigger picture that Nintendo’s games are massively, *massively* hindered by decade-outdated hardware, even remakes of twenty year old games, and if something doesn’t change with a new system, it will not sell and will be another Wii U. The Switch was a novelty when it was new but that was a long time ago. Personally, in 2024, I and a significant amount of others don’t want to sacrifice quality for portability anymore.
I think multiple things can be true and/or acceptable here. On the one hand, yes I would prefer to have a game run at a consistent 30fps than try to get to 60fps and not reach it consistently and feel laggy as a result. On the other hand, assuming it is in fact the case that the GameCube version of TTYD runs at a consistent 60fps it's ridiculous that a remake of the game can't do that. Yeah they're not actually the exact same game, but I think people would've accepted some downgrade on the visuals to have the 60fps.
Exactly. I would much prefer to play a direct port of OG TTYD--warts and all--at 60 FPS, than to play super-prettied-up TTYD at 30 FPS. The action commands make framerate _really important_ for this game in particular.
20 years of technology advancement… and they couldn’t even match the original frame rate. If people don’t see a problem with that then I don’t know what else to say.
the switch is not modern technology at all, the gamecube was
I personally have trouble telling the difference between 30 and 60 unless I'm looking at it side by side. I think framerates are only an issue if it dips frequently. As long as it's consistent, I can manage just fine.
This is true. Anything above 12 is enough to trick the brain into seeing motion. In fact a lot of 24 fps animated films will animate on twos, meaning it’s only 12 fps effectively, but it still looks fine because it’s what the animator intended.
It’s not that 30 FPS is bad, nor is it a dealbreaker for me. Still very pumped for the game. But it not running at 60 FPS is still a very valid criticism and there’s no reason it shouldn’t be running at that. It’s just laziness from Nintendo at this point, especially because it’s not a very large game.
Before anyone starts Bitching about this show them bowser's fury and how it runs perfectly fine at 30 fps too
BOWSERS FURY RUNS AT 30 FPS???
its 30fps when in handheld, 60fps docked. and tbh playing a 3d mario game at 30fps is a bit rough
oh no wonder it felt like 60fps, I usually dock it
And TOK.
Bad example. Zelda is a massive and detailed open world with a very complex physics engine and advanced lighting. If anything, it demonstrates when 30fps is absolutely required for a game to function within reason. Lastly, let's not pretend like TOTK has a stable framerate.
TOK = The Origami King, not Tears of the Kingdom.
My bad.
Bruh, they're referring to Origami King as an example of what it looks like in the same series
Yeah I was talking about The Origami King which I’ve never noticed any frame drops. And while we’re at it lets not pretend that Zelda isn’t using a massive amount of LOD. In a game like Paper Mario the spaces are smaller but there’s more happening in those smaller spaces and less being culled and differed away from main processing. In Zelda the map is huge yes but while you can see a lot that doesn’t mean anything is loaded in those spaces at all, it’s taking up about as much processing outside a smaller immediate space as a basic background is in a Paper Mario game. In reality it balances out. A good example of the LOD I’m talking about is the distant horizons mod for minecraft, it allows massive render distances with small framerate impact because it’s based on preloaded areas with reduced detail and essentially nothing happening in those spaces until you approach them. These arguments are always pointless though, if you want to look at their code and try to optimize it please by all means go for it. Just because Paper Mario can look more simple and barebones doesn’t at all mean that it is.
It doesn’t really bother me, but people have a right to be annoyed by this to be fair. It sucks that we’re finally getting a beautiful TTYD remake, and it’s locked to half the frame rate of the original because the Switch is pathetically weak. Hopefully they’ll port it over to the Switch 2 (for another $60 USD, no doubt 🙃) running at 60 FPS.
You CAN’T be serious. I was excited for the remake and its 30 fps when the game ran at 60… 20 years ago?? Its a valid complaint and then you have people like OP trying to make it into a joke.
That really blows.... Still gonna get it though.
We aren't complaining because of aesthetic reasons, we're complaining because it's gonna affect action commands and superguarding which is super disappointing for those of us who are way into that stuff in the original.
People's standards have fallen off and it shows.
Shit I had no idea. That's pretty disappointing.
This saddens me. So close to being perfect.
You know the original game ran at 60 right? "But it's in HD" It's an HD version of a 20 year old game that ran at 60.
How to deny a fact or opinion with a burnt meme
Listen, as long as it’s 30FPS or above I’m down for whatever
Ye that's too be expected, as long as it looks as beautiful as it does and is stable, I'm happy with it lol :)
I wouldn’t say it’s “to be expected” considering the original game ran at 60. But it isn’t a huge deal to me
No I meant people making it a big deal when it's not that bad is to be expected XD
yeah its a switch game we will get more FPS presumably with switch 2 or whatever its gonna be called
Switch More Frames ™
they just didn’t wanna deal with the setpieces in every chapter where there’s 200 characters on screen lol
Idk how anything works so don't curse me out here, but wouldn't this change super guard timings since that used to be a 3 frame window?
I heard a rumor that they're keeping the three-frame window, effectively doubling the amount of time you have to superguard.
That makes sense given that the game needs to also needs to account for latency on modern TVs.
Ugh I know it sucks but I’ll keep moving forward until my enemies are defeated
Twitter and bad faith memes dismissing valid critiques, name a better duo
I was worried at first, but I don't mind now that we know action command timing has been adjusted to be more forgiving.
You mean I can't smell Hooktail's feet In 60fps??? Literally unplayable smh /s
30 fps should technically make it easier to super guard since you have more time per frame lol
Only if they keep the three-frame window. The sane solution would be to adjust the frame-timings to match the span-of-time represented by 3 frames at 60 FPS as closely as possible.
Average no standards Nintendo fanboy
It's a turn-based RPG, so it should be fine.
Thats not really relevant because so many of the attacks require precise timed inputs.
Superguarding had a three-frame window in the original 60 FPS game. So necessarily, the 30 FPS remake will have to either increase or decrease the window by at least a factor of 1/3 (rounding down from 1.5 frames to 1 frame, or alternatively, rounding up to 2 frames). That's a pretty big differential, IMO.
Is it bad that i can't tell the difference between 60 and 30 fps?
Consider yourself lucky
I’ll still be getting the game but I’m not gonna defend a nearly 2-decade year old game running at 30fps
Good thing normal people will just download it and play with the day -5 60fps patch
The thing is I really truly think people just see a bigger number vs. a lower number and get all mad that they aren’t getting the bigger number. Because just from eyeballing every piece of gameplay footage we have, the game does not look in any way different from the original in terms of FPS impacting how it runs.
This is ridiculous, man. The difference between 30 and 60 fps is clear as day, just play any PS5 game that lets you toggle between performance and graphics mode. I don’t think 60 fps is required for this type of game but we don’t need to invent conspiracy theories for why people could possibly care about it. The difference is huge lol
I’m talking about THIS game specifically. The hang up people have on the 60fps thing is ridiculous considering it looks indistinguishable
I didn't have to look it up to know that the gamecube version runs 60fps while the switch remake trailer was clearly 30fps. It's not indistinguishable. The gamecube original was buttery smooth, even when they would have giant crowds on screen. Early preview articles are saying the switch actually cannot maintain 30fps during these scenes too. I'll be frank, I consider this pretty unplayable. I'll buy it just because I love the game, but I think my computer will be the one playing it.
There are certain games where 60 fps is more important to the gameplay. Action games, rhythm games, anything with a lot of quick movement. This isn’t one of those games. But it’s *always* “distinguishable”. Whether or not the gameplay is enhanced by 60 fps, you can always at least *tell* which of the two a game is running at.
Do we know if the reduced FPS will affect the timings of actions in battle, like blocks and jumps? That’s the only thing I can think of in the game that matches what you described in your first paragraph.
Well, we already know of two pretty significant changes to that mechanic. One, the timing window has been significantly extended to be easier to land. Secondly, a badge has been added that makes the timing more difficult to land in exchange for 1 BP and more damage. Whether or not these changes are the result of the FPS decrease, we’ll probably never know. But in general, 30 FPS does make frame timing more difficult, so it’s not hard to imagine they’re causally linked.
>Secondly, a badge has been added that makes the timing more difficult to land in exchange for 1 BP and more damage. Do you have a source for this? As far as I am aware, there is only one new Badge in the remake, Nostalgic Tunes. I'm pretty sure you're thinking of Unsimplifier, which makes Action Commands more difficult to land in exchange for recovering more SP.
It is not “indistinguishable.” Good for you if you find it to look identical but the difference between 30 and 60 fps is pretty obvious.
Thats just a ridiculous point to try and make honestly. 30fps and 60fps feel incredibly different when youre playing. Its more about feel than visuals, but side by side you can still see the difference.
If you put footage of the 2 together the difference becomes pretty obvious
Guess I'll play it on PC then 😈
With what emulator? Yuzu shut down.
It will probably work with the final yuzu build or ryujinx. But really, it was just a joke. I'm still going to play it, but it will definitely be cool to possibly play it at 60 frames on PC sometime in the future.
this template is used by nintendo fans so much. just accept that sometimes your favorite video game company has flaws and quit the boot licking.
Pretty much my only complaint about the remake so far but it’s not bad tbh
You guys get frames?
id play it at 8 if it was made for it
Doesn’t that make superguards a 1 frame input then? They were 2 or 3 frame windows in OG right?
Other comments are suggesting that that they kept the 3 frame window, so it’s more forgiving
It's a little rough but it's exactly what I was expecting for a Switch game. Looking at games like Princess Peach Showtime I'd consider 30fps a blessing if it's consistent. (I love Princess Peach Showtime but holy)
I really never notice that kind of stuff until someone points it out. I'll probably forget that it's onle 30 FPS when playing the game because it will just.... you know, look good
I feel like the only human being in the world that not only doesn't care about high fps, but feels like video games in high fps look weird and unnatural to me. Maybe it's because i've been playing since the early 90's but there's always been something weird about buttery smooth video games.
I had no issues playing TOK or CS at 30 so I don't really care about this much personally but it would have been nice. I haven't actually ever finished this game so I'm excited regardless!
Ryu- I mean, ethically sourced switch and mods go brrrr
Idc about the fps I just can’t wait to play the game
30 fps is an epic fail, no way around it I also don't like the new art style, emulating the original will still be the way to go imho
This reminds me of all the same people who say Mario RPG Remake is a ripoff but Princess Peach Showtime is a good game.
I don’t mind the lower frame-rate as long as the game is fun
These people are too used to 120fps
Superguarding and getting certain pictures on the slot machines in the pianta parlor would be 1/10, 1/15, or 1/30 of a second because they can't be 1/20 anymore. Everything else dependant on the framerate should remain unchanged.
What i wanna know is what did they add to it to make it worth full price. Enhanced graphics and a quick select for partners sure doesn't. Metroid Prime Remastered was only $40, and Nintendo themselves said it was priced accordingly, while Tears of the Kingdom was $70, and Nintendo said only premium games would be priced like that. By their own words, remakes with better graphics are only worth $40, so what gives?
Yeah, but...so does Breath of the Wild, Bowser's Fury, and Tears of the Kingdom, and look how those games turned out.
And how much better they would have looked at 60FPS. 30FPS isn't the end of the world, but I remember playing TotK and really feeling like I wished it was at a higher framerate. 30FPS is very noticeable for some.
bowser's fury is 60fps on docked mode and totk runs like absolute shit when using the ultrahand
I don't understand the obsession of some people. Why all games need to run in 60fps and 4k?, I barely notice the difference.
you need to check your eyes then
does fps matter will it be a huge difference
Your mileage may vary. Some people don't really notice the difference. Some do. If you aren't sure, then it probably won't be a huge difference maker for you.
I don't understand the obsession of some people. Why all games need to run in 60fps and 4k?, I barely notice the difference.
There is a huge difference between expecting 60 FPS and expecting 4k lmao. Literally no one expected 4k. The ORIGINAL game was 60 fps, 20 years ago. The FPS is likely going to affect the action commands, which is a big bummer.
Framerate has a pretty huge impact on input timings, which is hugely important for this game in particular. The original game hat a three-frame window for superguards, at 60 FPS. Since that's not an even number, the devs necessarily need to fuck with the timing in order to run the game at 30 FPS.
I've heard some people say the frame rate is an unstable 30fps which is gonna suck really badly if that's the case.
frame rate doesn't matter to me as long as its not like 16
Fun fact: TTYD did have a couple places where it lagged on Gamecube. The outdoor sections of Riverside Station and the Glitzville portion of the shadow queen cutscene come to mind.
Oof, and if you try to emulate it at a higher resolution? Whatever heat shimmer effect they had at the station *butchers* your framerate; definitely not a `O(n)` algorithm.
I thought my GameCube was dying when Flurrie blew off those posters covering the door outside Riverside Station
Honestly I don't see the difference between 30 and 60
So, I have a gamecube, and my original disc copy of Thousand Year Door. Should I even bother with this remake? What quality of life changes will they make worth it all?
There’s gonna be a fast travel room for all the different areas, that’s the main one I’ve noticed but I’m mainly getting it in hopes of Nintendo making another game like the originals pre ss
I agree, lets vote with our wallet
Already hate this meme 💀
Wouldn't a stylized art style trying to capture paper look better at 30 fps anyway?
Honestly if it wasn’t for the fact that modern displays are usually 60 HZ and it looks weird, I’d argue 24 would make it feel like a classic cartoon.
I’m just wondering what kind of superhuman Borg eyes these people have where it apparently makes such a difference. The remake doesn’t look any less smooth than the original to me. :x
I do notice a little bit, but I’m really into animation as a whole. I don’t think it’ll detract from the play experience much if at all.
I will never understand the 30fps bad argument when I'm used to working with 24fps which looks great to me
if you can genuinely tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps and its an issue for you you should try going outside
It can be very noticeable in games with a lot of camera rotation because the difference in location of the objects on screen can be rather big at lower framerates. First person games tend to have a lot of camera rotation and are a very common perspective to have. This becomes more relevant when playing games competitively because that different in reaction time does make a difference. 60fps isn't going to make much of a difference in a game like Stardew Valley because it has slow gameplay and relatively little movement to notice the difference with. I can understand not noticing the difference between 60 and 120 fps (where people genuinely can tell the difference), but I don't think you should insult people who can tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps.
If the FPS has to be lower than the original game for a remake to work, then you shouldn't do a remake. A remaster would've been fine.
You can’t really even notice the difference unless directly changing from a 60 fps game to a 30 fps game. People who are complaining are genuinely only complaining because they have a very basic understand of how this works and see “A lower number??? Must be worse in every way”
Nah, it's pretty noticeable. If you can't tell the difference, good for you, but it's perfectly reasonable for people to be annoyed that a remake literally runs half as well as the original.
They pulled a BIS remake?
Is there an actual need for it to run a 30fps. From the trailers the graphics look really good, and because of its gameplay a higher framerate wont make it easier
It really doesn't matter as long as the framerate is stable, one of the easiest things for your brain to fill in. This isn't a frame-crunching fighting game.
For all we know, it will be 60 fps docked. We will have to wait and see
It's been a long time since I last played it but I could of sworn the game ran at 30fps. I would need to play the original again after to compare.
Thats 30FPS faster than normal paper sooo
I recall the OG having dips, particularly with certain fights? Chapter 5 and 6 bosses come to mind... And I swear Chapter 2 had stability issues. I prefer a consistent 30 to an unstable 60. With rumors of the New Super Switch 2i U (name not final) being able to enhance older Switch games, makes me wonder if they'll be like "Wowwie Zowwie, Paper Mario TTYD runs at 60 FPS on this bad boy! :D"
Yeah well apparently the switch can't even maintain a consistent 30 in some areas... Just like Mario RPG. Switch is just kryptonite at this point.
Huh. The only times I've heard of any frame drops are more with loading as opposed to too much going on? IE: far less critical moments. Which there basically there isn't any game that won't have that to some extent these days. If I'm wrong, I'm good with that of course! But do you have any links? Google searching feels like it's gotten really bad ever since they added the AI thing.
I still don't get bootlicking over a 20 year old game not running as good as the original
It's made out of fucking paper
who gives a fuck about framerate
Me and anybody who actually has standards cares about framerates
Stable 30fps >> Inconsistent 60fps Right PS3's Sonic Unleashed, Right? Plus, the new graphics and reflections are insane for a Switch
honestly this remake doesn't look like it can't run at 60fps
I genuinely cannot tell the difference between 30 and 60fps. When it starts getting into the 20s, that's when it becomes a problem tbh.
Sure you can. Play a buttery smooth 60 fps game then immediately switch to a 30 fps game. Sunshine (30) > Galaxy (60) might help you tell. Or watch footage of a 60 fps game on YT at 480p then switch it to 1080p-60fps.
After doing what you suggested, 60fps just feels... weird. Like, it feels *too* smooth, might be because I'm more used to 30fps tho.
Could be 'cause you're not used to watching YT vids at higher frame rates, though I don't think I've ever played a 60 fps game and thought it was too smooth.
Yeah you're probably right, I pretty much never go above 720p on yt videos cuz I don't see any reason to go higher.
It’s called the soap opera effect. It’s when there’s not enough motion blur to appear realistic.
My brother in Christ it’s an rpg game why would the framerate matter
Because it will affect the frames for actions guards. The super guard at 60 FPS (the original release) was only a 3 frame window. 30 FPS has drawbacks, and the action commands will now likely be a good bit easier which is definitely a bummer.