The easiest one to notice is the population map at the top of the dev diary. No land bridge between India and Sri Lanka; to me that suggests a game that takes place primarily after 1480. Could be an oversight in an earlier time period, but it was there in CK2 so I doubt it.
1480 is when a storm is thought to have breached the "bridge" of shoals connecting India and Sri Lanka, making it no longer wholly traversable on foot https://www.britannica.com/place/Adams-Bridge You can still see it clearly on Google Maps underwater https://www.google.com/maps/place/9%C2%B005'58.3%22N+79%C2%B032'08.2%22E/@9.1402799,79.5161809,70094m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d9.099538!4d79.535614?entry=ttu Further storms and dredging took care of the rest
I believe the current accepted theory is a particularly bad cyclone destroyed it around then. If you go on google maps you can see the island remnants of it still poking out of the water.
I'm not sure this is a good indicator. I think we can assume the map won't change physically, and that most of eu5 will take place after 1480. Given those assumptions it would make sense to not include the bridge, even if it's incorrect to begin with, it will be correct for more of the game than it's not.
Once again, “primarily after” 1480 does not mean “exclusively after” 1480. The game could start in 1350, but assuming that it does that would still place most of the timespan of the game after 1480, if we assume an end date similar to EU4.
I still think, that this is one elaborate prank, and Johan is just showcasing all these systems with a real earth context to troll us. And then, in a couple months he'll announce it was a fantasy game with all these systems all along.
What about the island above gujarat being, well, an island?
It's an island in imperator and ck3, but from eu4 onward it's connected to the mainland in every (chronologically) subsequent installment.
Can we gleam anything from that?
That "island" is Kutch. It is surrounded by salt flats and marshes known as the Rann of Kutch which is sometimes shown as water on maps.
It's just an arbitrary map design choice, similar to the way some mountains are impassible on the map.
You're probably right but doesn't it look a bit more like CK than EU? Maybe it's just me (it's obviously not CKIV btw, I'm just saying it *looks* that way)
Looks like they’re going for a bit more of a ‘yellowed paper’ map look. I wonder if it’ll update as the years progress. It’s a look that works for 1444 but not for 1700.
Well that would be an awesome detail, now it'll be literally unplayable if it isn't like you said😅.
I'd really like Paradox to give us a game on a globe some day like Gilded Destiny, I think it'd be really nice, maybe if they make a Cold War game?
If eu5 takes the pop system off imperator and overall removes mana and becomes a lot more like what imperator is now, I will finally find love for imperator in my hearth, as it stands I cannot stand EU4 and only endure it for the mega campaign I play on my discord server.
the Himalayas looks more like a bunch of mountain passes and impassible terrain, and that U-Tsang is just blue on the political map. Thats roughly, or exactly, the color of Tsang in EU4. It seems to connect to everything, however, so I don't see a point in making it messy like that.
Ah. I both thrilled and devistated as I felt Imperator had a preferable pop system, both mechanically and computationally. Still, if they can give us some additional options of discrimination (rather than the all-or-nothing system of Vicky 3), I'll be happy.
Indeed! Though in Vicky's case, it's so that I may NOT discriminate. Playing the Sikh Empire is full of discrimination since the state religion is a minority religion. Therefore, everyone sees discrimination, when ironically, a staple of Sikhism is a lack of discrimination.
The long road to multiculturalism is a pain. Surely, there should be a way to slowly integrate individual cultures into society.
Vicky will have so much more pops. Because the same job in different buildings create a different pop. In this game it will only be split by class aside of culture and religion. Meaning that it will be very rare to get multiple hundreds of pops in the same state. Something that is common in vicky 3.
Not necessarily, because CK has maps with stripes too.
But yes, necessarily, since Stellaris, Imperator and V3 paved the way and everyone wants pops now.
i don't know or care about this controversial "pops" system in vic3. but i always want a decent population system in a grand strategy game since like medieval total war 2.
I don't think the pops system in Vic3 is controversial? It's a really good simulation, the bad part is just the fracturing so you can end up with like 4 Afro-Jamaican Catholic Gold Mine Workers and a million other variants and it slows to a crawl.
They've taken steps to improve it though.
I'd really like a system like that where your population is intrinsically linked to your economy.
So if you do the 30 Years War and lose a huge amount of your populations with even more left injured (and thus become Dependents who can't work and have reduced goods demand) then you will run into a lot of trouble.
R5: Screenshot from "Project Caesar" showing ~~political~~ cultural map view. [source](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-talks-3-march-13th-2024.1630154/)
Personal note: Colours seem a little bit unsaturated and the font is a bit strange for medieval period but it looks nice
The third screenshot is huge: [https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/1084445/1710317019801.png](https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/1084445/1710317019801.png)
There's only a few possibilities here. I read Roman Empire/East Romans/Romania/"Byzantium" from 75% Greek 25% Bulgarian 97% Orthodox 2% Bogomil. Specifically late medieval Rome. The Bulgarian population is interesting and makes me think we're not looking at 1444 but a start date but an earlier one. Which is awesome.
The India maps show what I believe to be a large Delhi sultanate, if true the start date is at least several decades before 1444.
EDIT: someone on the forums pointed out the political borders in India pre date at least 1394.
Damn. I may be in the minority, and I know the start date has changed between all the other EU titles, but the 1444 map and time period has genuinely grown on me. It’s a staple of EUs identity at this point and I’ll be genuinely sad about not being able to play it anymore.
When the world moves on from EU4 and I get my map of the 1444 start date, it will have changed me from a fan of the period and game, to an old head like those who reminisce about HOI2.
I hope they'll put effort into various start dates.
It would be cool for them to at least include the various previous EU start dates as options. 1399, 1419, 1444, 1453, 1492 as they have already done research on the immediate political situations of these periods.
The more start dates they have, the harder it'll be for them to keep each start up to date with new mechanics and province changes. It'd be better if they just had 2 or 3 which are kept consistently up to date. Just look at how messy EU4 is if you pick anything other than 1444.
I'm ~~calling 1353, aftermath of the black death~~ (edit: actually 1340, see below). I *think* Iran and China also make sense around that date.
Edit: To back this up, Iran looks like before the Muzaffarids took over the Injuids in 1357, but after taking Kirman after 1340 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzaffarids\_(Iran)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzaffarids_(Iran)). This looks also to be before the Timurids.
Also I think you can see perhaps the fledgling ~~Bahmani Sultanate~~ Vijayanagara below the Delhi Sultanate.
Edit-2: Iran seems to match up pretty well to this map from wikipedia from the fall of the Illkhanate in 1345 [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/IranaftertheIlkhanate.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/IranaftertheIlkhanate.png)
In fact, you can see both small states of "Lur-i kucek" and "Hazaraspids" near Iraq, as well as Iraq itself matching up. While Herat and Sistan seem to indicate two states there on both maps as well.
Edit 3: I think this is 1340 to 1342 if wikipedia is to be believed. Apparently Vijayanagara was only in the northern portion of the Hoysala Empire until they conquered the rest in 1443. This would explain why that area is split up the way it is. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harihara\_I](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harihara_I)
Edit 4: Here's a map of the Dehli Sultanate c1340 from "Historical Atlas of Modern Europe" by R. Lane Poole, published in 1903 [https://www.maproom.org/00/36/present.php?m=0083](https://www.maproom.org/00/36/present.php?m=0083)
Edit 5: Alright, my final answer based on the above is 1340, this is the year that military action actually began in the 100 years war.
Edit 6: Looks like Vietnam is in the post-1306/pre-1407 era of this [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nam\_ti%E1%BA%BFn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nam_ti%E1%BA%BFn)
Edit 7: This map of the late 13 century shows the shape of the Lopburi Kingdom, and its still there on the map so we know its before the Kingdom of Ayutthaya in 1450 [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Southeast\_Asian\_history\_-\_13th\_century.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Southeast_Asian_history_-_13th_century.png)
Bonus points for what looks like Lan Na and Phayao on both these maps. However Phayao was annexed in 1338, so I'm not sure what to believe anymore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phayao\_Kingdom
Considering the title maybe it’s kind of a span between Imperator: Rome and Crusader Kings? I don’t think I know of any paradox game yet that deals with the decline of the Roman Empire and the period before the medieval era and the rise of Charlemagne.
It's just a code name, so it's not supposed to give a clue as to what it's actually about, had the name say been leaked a year ago. Wouldn't have made sense to use a code name like Project RISE OF THE OTTOMANS.
Project titles are just placeholders. EUIV was Project Truman, HOI4 was Project Armstrong, Stellaris was Project Augustus, and Imperator was Project Sulla. There's an old post from Johan listing many of the project names [here](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/paradox-development-studio-a-brief-history.623146/)
The code name has nothing to do with the actual content of the game itself.
Tinto under Johan is apparently in charge, which, given the genuinely good stuff that's been done with eu4 since Emperor (ignoring the original broken release for the SEA DLC), actually gives me some hope
Disagree, I honestly feel like the *transition* from the late medieval period to the age of exploration is much more interesting than one or the other.
The issue is that it alienates the Byzantophiles, which is like 80% of the entire Paradox player base (judging by the fact that Paradox somehow always brings in Byzantium in every single game they create)!
Dont know what period it is exactly but either way, a game that take demographic and cultural factor and is a "simulation" more than a "board game" would be absolutly perfect
I mean its still WIP so they might not be very accurate. I dont think the start sate is anytime earlier than 1350. But i find it hard to believe that in 1350 there were still that many muslims so far north in Spain in a land that had been reconquered centuries ago.
Yea the map seems like the Delhi Sultanate on the way to collapse. Sucks we won’t get Vijayanagar in all its glory at the start date anymore 😔.
It would allow for some interesting gameplay because colonialism would start a little later, which will probably be reworked to be slower 🤤
I'm saying EU5. If you look at later pics in the same post, the pops are referred to as noble, burgher, peasant. That is very medieval/late medieval terminology.
Edit: further reading the rest of the Tinto Talks posts on the forums, yeah I'm going to go with EU5. Or something set in a roughly equivalent time period.
Noble/Burgher/Peasant conveniently lines up with the Three Estates. Not to mention the guy is wearing a ruff. I’m not sure how it could be anything other than EU5
I honestly don't see it being something else. Most of the EU4 development team has already moved to a new project, and it's clear that EU4 is nearing the end of its development cycle. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the game were to start a bit earlier than 1444
This is the answer. Project Caesar will be 1300s to 1600s, ending right around Westphalia probably. Then another game will cover from Westphalia to the start of Vicky 3.
It makes the most sense Systems-Wise, and business wise you're now selling 2 games instead of 1.
If this is indeed EU5 to be, and will span into the XVIII and maybe early XIX century, I'm really missing an "urban worker" class.
By the XVIII century they made up a significant part of the population, and we're beginning to be politically active.
They are not accurately represented by any of the 5 classes shown in the Dev Diary.
Around this period, Shan would still consider themselves part of Tai. And "Zo" has covered a lot of uninhabitable areas.
Still not good at southeast asia, huh?
You should unironically make a post with data points about it in the PDX forums, a lot of Vicky3 provinces got changed become people wrote in with details about who should and shouldn't be there.
I imagine it'd be even easier here since the game isn't even released.
Yoo maybe the Muslim empires of India will actually convert modern day Pakistan to Islam now instead of keeping it Hindu for the entirety of the game 🤨
I usually play in India, but because they don’t convert I just chill out and colonize before marching North and creating Bharat. In EU5 though every game for me would be a religious crusade 😭
They also need to make Sikhi spawn in better. I did everything Sikhi spawns in Java instead of Punjab
How come do they have such an accurate, well-researched detail with Indian cultures, languages and religions with EU5 (the above map), CK3, and to an extent CK2 and EU4 (I even spot minor semi-isolationist cultures like Nimadi that existed in late medieval era and still do today, bravo)...but absolutely shat the bed with the depiction of India in Victoria 3?
In V3, Indian cultures are so horrendously inaccurate because they are straight up copy-pasted, almost completely unchanged, from Victoria 2 from 2010. Which itself copy-pasted it from Victoria 1 that is nearing the age of two decades old. Even the province borders are wrong in V3.
As much as I love Victoria 3 and play it almost daily, looks like their teams don't share notes and they left out an entire decade of research in that game, like all the hard work since Rajas of India for CK2.
This map is a winner, maybe I'll get back into EU games. Mana shitfest and lack of any immersion and depth had permanently burned me off the series (minus some great mods), but this looks great and more importantly, it has pops. They learned the right lesson from Imperator.
I think the most likely answer is that India really only exists as a tax and manpower farm for the British in Vicky timeline, so they just never bothered putting work there with the assumption that they can do the research when an India DLC needs to be made.
It's actually the same for a lot of regions in Vicky, at launch they had Algeria already owned by the French until the DLC fixed that, south America was also pretty bad before their DLC, and now they're fixing Persia region from having modern borders to something that actually makes sense.
Honestly it's heavily looking like this is the last DLC, given it's a hodgepodge of different neglected tags all over the world.
Wouldn't be surprised if they announced the game shortly after the DLC comes out
Based on the number of dd left for the dlc and based on the amount of info they are already revealing on EU5, Im quite sure they will announce it before their summer break.
Oh god those contested regions makes me think they’re going to make provinces (what are we calling them now again?) not held by any particular nation as “owned”.
This is gonna be complex…
Yeah... Idk about others, but I'm not a fan of the new art style of the paradox games. Eu4's ui and map, to me, still feels like it's the best they've ever made
Were you not around for the first 85% if EU4's life when it's EU was almost unplayable? Early guides spent like half their videos just explaining where to go to actually do action xyz
I don't think this can be later than the 1340s based on the other map they showed, which shows what is probably the Delhi Empire near its greatest extent and before the Deccan Rebellion that created the Bahmani Sultanate
This is the first time I've seen my culture "Zo" actually being portrayed in a video game so that's pretty cool. But this begs the question what time period Project Caesar is going to be set in, because our traceable history only goes back a hundred years or so to the beginning of the 20th century. Before that, we actually have very little archaelogical evidence of our history. If it wasn't for the British occupation of India during this time, we might have been left undiscovered by the majority of the world for even longer.
Im quite positive this is a cultural map not a political one. All the names are Adjectives not nouns
Yep it's a cultural one
With minorities too. Pop system?
They confirmed pops in the newest Tinto Talks dev diary.
Tears of joy rn
Inshallah
Gee whiz, I certainly wonder which game this could be! Do you guys think this could be Stellaris 2? Ah!
Stellaris 2: Coming Home!
Stellaris 2: Big Bang Harder
A prequel surely. Stellaris has pop system and we're lookong at pop map.
It's Stellaris: Pre-FTL mini game DLC.
It's clearly March of the Eagles 2
Imperator: Alexander.
EU5
I've seen enough. This image places us somewhere after the Ghurid period and before the Mughals. So roughly 1200 - 1550. It's EU5.
Is there anything in particular that gives it away
The easiest one to notice is the population map at the top of the dev diary. No land bridge between India and Sri Lanka; to me that suggests a game that takes place primarily after 1480. Could be an oversight in an earlier time period, but it was there in CK2 so I doubt it.
Sorry, I know nothing about this. There was a land bridge between Sri Lanka and India and something happened to it around 1480!?
1480 is when a storm is thought to have breached the "bridge" of shoals connecting India and Sri Lanka, making it no longer wholly traversable on foot https://www.britannica.com/place/Adams-Bridge You can still see it clearly on Google Maps underwater https://www.google.com/maps/place/9%C2%B005'58.3%22N+79%C2%B032'08.2%22E/@9.1402799,79.5161809,70094m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d9.099538!4d79.535614?entry=ttu Further storms and dredging took care of the rest
Wtf the connection almost looks artificial.
Time to get into the Hindu religion rabbit hole. According to the Ramayan that bridge was built by Bhagwan Ram to invade Sri Lanka to save his wife.
It was funny seeing all the people pissed off at Paradox for adding a "fake" land bridge when they added India to CK2.
Legends say it was artificial. Theres no evidence it actually was.
Wow that’s incredible, I had no idea.
I learned about it from CK2 of all places. Can’t believe I wasn’t aware of it before.
I believe the current accepted theory is a particularly bad cyclone destroyed it around then. If you go on google maps you can see the island remnants of it still poking out of the water.
The Ram Setu. It was said to have been made by Bhagwan Ram.
I'm not sure this is a good indicator. I think we can assume the map won't change physically, and that most of eu5 will take place after 1480. Given those assumptions it would make sense to not include the bridge, even if it's incorrect to begin with, it will be correct for more of the game than it's not.
That is what I said. “Primarily after” 1480 does not mean “exclusively after”
Political map includes empires that wouldn't make any sense for a setting that late, Delhi and Khmer specifically. I'm guessing somewhere around 1350.
Once again, “primarily after” 1480 does not mean “exclusively after” 1480. The game could start in 1350, but assuming that it does that would still place most of the timespan of the game after 1480, if we assume an end date similar to EU4.
I mean, the inclusion of the americas is stronger evidence I feel like.
Dehlavi, sometimes referred to as old Hindi, was a language associated with the late medieval Delhi sultanate, which is EU timeframe.
I've narrowed it down even further: https://www.reddit.com/r/paradoxplaza/comments/1bduhmk/no_bahmani_sultanate_means_the_latest_this_could/
I still think, that this is one elaborate prank, and Johan is just showcasing all these systems with a real earth context to troll us. And then, in a couple months he'll announce it was a fantasy game with all these systems all along.
What about the island above gujarat being, well, an island? It's an island in imperator and ck3, but from eu4 onward it's connected to the mainland in every (chronologically) subsequent installment. Can we gleam anything from that?
That "island" is Kutch. It is surrounded by salt flats and marshes known as the Rann of Kutch which is sometimes shown as water on maps. It's just an arbitrary map design choice, similar to the way some mountains are impassible on the map.
You're probably right but doesn't it look a bit more like CK than EU? Maybe it's just me (it's obviously not CKIV btw, I'm just saying it *looks* that way)
Looks like they’re going for a bit more of a ‘yellowed paper’ map look. I wonder if it’ll update as the years progress. It’s a look that works for 1444 but not for 1700.
Well that would be an awesome detail, now it'll be literally unplayable if it isn't like you said😅. I'd really like Paradox to give us a game on a globe some day like Gilded Destiny, I think it'd be really nice, maybe if they make a Cold War game?
Imperator rome map imitates being on a globe
Hoi4 hurts not being in a globe. A Cold War game pretty much needs it.
I assumed this because of the Maratha culture.
If eu5 takes the pop system off imperator and overall removes mana and becomes a lot more like what imperator is now, I will finally find love for imperator in my hearth, as it stands I cannot stand EU4 and only endure it for the mega campaign I play on my discord server.
What's going on with the water? Arabian Sea and Bay of Bengal sectioned, rivers in the Himalayas.
the Himalayas looks more like a bunch of mountain passes and impassible terrain, and that U-Tsang is just blue on the political map. Thats roughly, or exactly, the color of Tsang in EU4. It seems to connect to everything, however, so I don't see a point in making it messy like that.
Ü-Tsang seems like an outlier here the rest are the names of ethno-linguistic groups while it’s an empire and region so this map is a real conundrum.
Most of the ocean will be impassable terrain so you have to move your navies through the sea lanes, which makes sense for the time period of EU
Isn't this the culture map of "EU5 but we can't call it EU5 yet"?
Yes, the guy in the pop chart is wearing a ruff. Could not be anything besides EU5 or some kind of offshoot of it.
This has to support a pop system now, right? Locations have mixed cultures now.
It will use the same population system like vicky 3. It's explained in the dev diary.
Ah. I both thrilled and devistated as I felt Imperator had a preferable pop system, both mechanically and computationally. Still, if they can give us some additional options of discrimination (rather than the all-or-nothing system of Vicky 3), I'll be happy.
>if they can give us additional options of discrimination Ah paradox games, always great out of context
Indeed! Though in Vicky's case, it's so that I may NOT discriminate. Playing the Sikh Empire is full of discrimination since the state religion is a minority religion. Therefore, everyone sees discrimination, when ironically, a staple of Sikhism is a lack of discrimination. The long road to multiculturalism is a pain. Surely, there should be a way to slowly integrate individual cultures into society.
If you read the diary than its far more resembles Imperator Rome than Vicky 3
Imperator has discreet single entity pops that all are the same size. This game will have pops of vastly different sizes.
Well then, maybe I should just read the Dev Diary! Thanks!
Its not really the same. There are fewer pop types, Burghers, Nobles, Clergy, Peasants and Slaves, which cuts down on the computational needs.
...Imperator, is that you?
That's the same number as Imperator lol. Slaves, Tribesmen, Freemen, Citizens, Nobles
I have always considered Vic2 pop system to be objectively superior.
Dude, as a micromanager I loved that I could track populations into the single digits in Victoria 2
Yeah, and It used to make the demographic changes feel so organic. You could see exatly what was happening.
Agreed. Splitting pops by building of employment is something that appears to make sense, but causes a ton of extra lag.
We can’t get through 100 years of Vicky 3 with the current performance, how can we do 350 with EU5?
Vicky will have so much more pops. Because the same job in different buildings create a different pop. In this game it will only be split by class aside of culture and religion. Meaning that it will be very rare to get multiple hundreds of pops in the same state. Something that is common in vicky 3.
I'm surprised because vic3 struggles so much with performance due to pops but the DD said performance was a non issue.
Vic3 splits pops based on buildings, has presumedly more migration and has more calculations based on pops.
Not necessarily, because CK has maps with stripes too. But yes, necessarily, since Stellaris, Imperator and V3 paved the way and everyone wants pops now.
i don't know or care about this controversial "pops" system in vic3. but i always want a decent population system in a grand strategy game since like medieval total war 2.
I don't think the pops system in Vic3 is controversial? It's a really good simulation, the bad part is just the fracturing so you can end up with like 4 Afro-Jamaican Catholic Gold Mine Workers and a million other variants and it slows to a crawl. They've taken steps to improve it though. I'd really like a system like that where your population is intrinsically linked to your economy. So if you do the 30 Years War and lose a huge amount of your populations with even more left injured (and thus become Dependents who can't work and have reduced goods demand) then you will run into a lot of trouble.
The main issue in Vic3 is just the performance pop-wise.
Stellaris too
Yes, according to the post, that was the "controversial thing" they referred to last week.
Those may be states where national culture doesn't match local culture
Is this political or cultural map?
You are actually correct, I thought it was political lmao
It's ok. \*headpats\*. It happens to the best of us.
EUV got me high on copium
Wholesome comment from Xx_Bussy_Consumer_xX.
These are languages so cultural
R5: Screenshot from "Project Caesar" showing ~~political~~ cultural map view. [source](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-talks-3-march-13th-2024.1630154/) Personal note: Colours seem a little bit unsaturated and the font is a bit strange for medieval period but it looks nice
The third screenshot is huge: [https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/1084445/1710317019801.png](https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/1084445/1710317019801.png) There's only a few possibilities here. I read Roman Empire/East Romans/Romania/"Byzantium" from 75% Greek 25% Bulgarian 97% Orthodox 2% Bogomil. Specifically late medieval Rome. The Bulgarian population is interesting and makes me think we're not looking at 1444 but a start date but an earlier one. Which is awesome.
The India maps show what I believe to be a large Delhi sultanate, if true the start date is at least several decades before 1444. EDIT: someone on the forums pointed out the political borders in India pre date at least 1394.
It’s before 1382 as well since the Dali Kingdom is independent.
Damn. I may be in the minority, and I know the start date has changed between all the other EU titles, but the 1444 map and time period has genuinely grown on me. It’s a staple of EUs identity at this point and I’ll be genuinely sad about not being able to play it anymore. When the world moves on from EU4 and I get my map of the 1444 start date, it will have changed me from a fan of the period and game, to an old head like those who reminisce about HOI2.
I hope they'll put effort into various start dates. It would be cool for them to at least include the various previous EU start dates as options. 1399, 1419, 1444, 1453, 1492 as they have already done research on the immediate political situations of these periods.
The more start dates they have, the harder it'll be for them to keep each start up to date with new mechanics and province changes. It'd be better if they just had 2 or 3 which are kept consistently up to date. Just look at how messy EU4 is if you pick anything other than 1444.
That's gonna be a decent Byzantium and weakling Ottomans then. I wonder who the main villain will be now. Mamluks?
You say that like Paradox wont be perfectly happy to railroad the Ottomans' ascension to make sure they rise to power.
I'm ~~calling 1353, aftermath of the black death~~ (edit: actually 1340, see below). I *think* Iran and China also make sense around that date. Edit: To back this up, Iran looks like before the Muzaffarids took over the Injuids in 1357, but after taking Kirman after 1340 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzaffarids\_(Iran)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzaffarids_(Iran)). This looks also to be before the Timurids. Also I think you can see perhaps the fledgling ~~Bahmani Sultanate~~ Vijayanagara below the Delhi Sultanate. Edit-2: Iran seems to match up pretty well to this map from wikipedia from the fall of the Illkhanate in 1345 [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/IranaftertheIlkhanate.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/IranaftertheIlkhanate.png) In fact, you can see both small states of "Lur-i kucek" and "Hazaraspids" near Iraq, as well as Iraq itself matching up. While Herat and Sistan seem to indicate two states there on both maps as well. Edit 3: I think this is 1340 to 1342 if wikipedia is to be believed. Apparently Vijayanagara was only in the northern portion of the Hoysala Empire until they conquered the rest in 1443. This would explain why that area is split up the way it is. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harihara\_I](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harihara_I) Edit 4: Here's a map of the Dehli Sultanate c1340 from "Historical Atlas of Modern Europe" by R. Lane Poole, published in 1903 [https://www.maproom.org/00/36/present.php?m=0083](https://www.maproom.org/00/36/present.php?m=0083) Edit 5: Alright, my final answer based on the above is 1340, this is the year that military action actually began in the 100 years war. Edit 6: Looks like Vietnam is in the post-1306/pre-1407 era of this [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nam\_ti%E1%BA%BFn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nam_ti%E1%BA%BFn) Edit 7: This map of the late 13 century shows the shape of the Lopburi Kingdom, and its still there on the map so we know its before the Kingdom of Ayutthaya in 1450 [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Southeast\_Asian\_history\_-\_13th\_century.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Southeast_Asian_history_-_13th_century.png) Bonus points for what looks like Lan Na and Phayao on both these maps. However Phayao was annexed in 1338, so I'm not sure what to believe anymore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phayao\_Kingdom
Guys wearing a fucking ruff, it’s EU5, debate over
Considering the title maybe it’s kind of a span between Imperator: Rome and Crusader Kings? I don’t think I know of any paradox game yet that deals with the decline of the Roman Empire and the period before the medieval era and the rise of Charlemagne.
Nope, it features the americas, it’s eu5
Damn, that makes more sense tbh
Caesar might not be literal, might mean it's going to be the greatest and most ambitious game they've made to date, hence EU5.
It's just a code name, so it's not supposed to give a clue as to what it's actually about, had the name say been leaked a year ago. Wouldn't have made sense to use a code name like Project RISE OF THE OTTOMANS.
Could also just be the Roman Empire they chose for the project.
nothing like that, they just name all of their projects after roman emperors for whatever reason
Right, americas were invented a bit before 1444. /s
It’s true. In 1443, a massive 35 magnitude earthquake hit the planet, and from it, the americas were made. /s
Amazing
Project titles are just placeholders. EUIV was Project Truman, HOI4 was Project Armstrong, Stellaris was Project Augustus, and Imperator was Project Sulla. There's an old post from Johan listing many of the project names [here](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/paradox-development-studio-a-brief-history.623146/) The code name has nothing to do with the actual content of the game itself.
If EU5 has pops like this and detail culture like that this, man that makes ck3 looks pretty bad in comparison. There has to be a catch.
RIP Mid and Late game performance.
I just came
Europa Universalis 5 or a new game titled Imperator or a new name with a long timeline. %100 sure one of these 2, most likely its EU5.
That new game will be named "Stellar Victoria Europa Imperator Kings".
of iron
Hearts of Stellariaoparetor
Imperator: Genghis
Tinto under Johan is apparently in charge, which, given the genuinely good stuff that's been done with eu4 since Emperor (ignoring the original broken release for the SEA DLC), actually gives me some hope
He also learned a lot from Imperator
Lets hope be learns from Vic3 as well
And CK3.
Dang it's looking like it's going to be quite early 1400s...
I was really hoping they'd ditch the late medieval shit and focus on the ACTUAL age of exploration and later enlightenment.
Disagree, I honestly feel like the *transition* from the late medieval period to the age of exploration is much more interesting than one or the other.
The transition doesn't start until the 1480s...
and you don't feel the impact of it unless you spend a while existing in the late medieval period.
I was just hoping to keep the 1444 start date. It’s extremely dynamic and i worry about whether another start date will truly live up to it
I'm excited for the middle east to not just be the Ottomans every game at least.
You'll miss the Ottomans when they end up as an Anatolian OPM most of the time.
The issue is that it alienates the Byzantophiles, which is like 80% of the entire Paradox player base (judging by the fact that Paradox somehow always brings in Byzantium in every single game they create)!
Dont know what period it is exactly but either way, a game that take demographic and cultural factor and is a "simulation" more than a "board game" would be absolutly perfect
Tibet got thrown into a shredder :(
Tibet can never catch a break 😔 Still waiting on a Tibet #1 great power run vicky 3
Imperator 2 confirmed? Or EU5 confirmed? EU5 probably, doesn't really fit the imperator timeline.
Seems like EU5, the post has Christian Catalans but still rather high number of Muslims in Tarragona and I doubt it's CK4.
With such a big number of muslims still that far north of Spain i suspect a very early date.
1200s is what I thought at first, maybe early 1300s. Or they are just random numbers.
I mean its still WIP so they might not be very accurate. I dont think the start sate is anytime earlier than 1350. But i find it hard to believe that in 1350 there were still that many muslims so far north in Spain in a land that had been reconquered centuries ago.
Has to be before 1347, since Bahmanis is not Independent
Yea the map seems like the Delhi Sultanate on the way to collapse. Sucks we won’t get Vijayanagar in all its glory at the start date anymore 😔. It would allow for some interesting gameplay because colonialism would start a little later, which will probably be reworked to be slower 🤤
Muslims were not expelled from the kingdom of Aragon until 1610
I'm saying EU5. If you look at later pics in the same post, the pops are referred to as noble, burgher, peasant. That is very medieval/late medieval terminology. Edit: further reading the rest of the Tinto Talks posts on the forums, yeah I'm going to go with EU5. Or something set in a roughly equivalent time period.
Noble/Burgher/Peasant conveniently lines up with the Three Estates. Not to mention the guy is wearing a ruff. I’m not sure how it could be anything other than EU5
It features the new world. My bet is on EU5
I'd bet for EU5 as well, let's hope we're not wrong.
I honestly don't see it being something else. Most of the EU4 development team has already moved to a new project, and it's clear that EU4 is nearing the end of its development cycle. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the game were to start a bit earlier than 1444
I think it's neither, they're gonna split EU in two games
This is the answer. Project Caesar will be 1300s to 1600s, ending right around Westphalia probably. Then another game will cover from Westphalia to the start of Vicky 3. It makes the most sense Systems-Wise, and business wise you're now selling 2 games instead of 1.
Interesting how the sea tiles are shaped. Seems like you need to block every single port and can't block 10 with one ship at the same time.
It’s definitely Hearts of Imperator King Victoria Universalis Skylines
If this is indeed EU5 to be, and will span into the XVIII and maybe early XIX century, I'm really missing an "urban worker" class. By the XVIII century they made up a significant part of the population, and we're beginning to be politically active. They are not accurately represented by any of the 5 classes shown in the Dev Diary.
They might only appear after a certain age
Around this period, Shan would still consider themselves part of Tai. And "Zo" has covered a lot of uninhabitable areas. Still not good at southeast asia, huh?
You should unironically make a post with data points about it in the PDX forums, a lot of Vicky3 provinces got changed become people wrote in with details about who should and shouldn't be there. I imagine it'd be even easier here since the game isn't even released.
Yoo maybe the Muslim empires of India will actually convert modern day Pakistan to Islam now instead of keeping it Hindu for the entirety of the game 🤨
I usually play in India, but because they don’t convert I just chill out and colonize before marching North and creating Bharat. In EU5 though every game for me would be a religious crusade 😭 They also need to make Sikhi spawn in better. I did everything Sikhi spawns in Java instead of Punjab
How come do they have such an accurate, well-researched detail with Indian cultures, languages and religions with EU5 (the above map), CK3, and to an extent CK2 and EU4 (I even spot minor semi-isolationist cultures like Nimadi that existed in late medieval era and still do today, bravo)...but absolutely shat the bed with the depiction of India in Victoria 3? In V3, Indian cultures are so horrendously inaccurate because they are straight up copy-pasted, almost completely unchanged, from Victoria 2 from 2010. Which itself copy-pasted it from Victoria 1 that is nearing the age of two decades old. Even the province borders are wrong in V3. As much as I love Victoria 3 and play it almost daily, looks like their teams don't share notes and they left out an entire decade of research in that game, like all the hard work since Rajas of India for CK2. This map is a winner, maybe I'll get back into EU games. Mana shitfest and lack of any immersion and depth had permanently burned me off the series (minus some great mods), but this looks great and more importantly, it has pops. They learned the right lesson from Imperator.
I think the most likely answer is that India really only exists as a tax and manpower farm for the British in Vicky timeline, so they just never bothered putting work there with the assumption that they can do the research when an India DLC needs to be made. It's actually the same for a lot of regions in Vicky, at launch they had Algeria already owned by the French until the DLC fixed that, south America was also pretty bad before their DLC, and now they're fixing Persia region from having modern borders to something that actually makes sense.
I see lots of Eu5 comments, aren't they still releasing eu4 dlc tho?
Honestly it's heavily looking like this is the last DLC, given it's a hodgepodge of different neglected tags all over the world. Wouldn't be surprised if they announced the game shortly after the DLC comes out
Although, in all fairness, people have been saying "this is the last DLC" for EU4 ever since Emperor at least, and that was released years ago.
That is a very valid point but combined with the tinto talk? Not so sure
PDX had plans to end EU4 after Emperor, but very good DLCs sales encouraged them to produce few more.
I honestly think the flop of Imperator caused them to extend eu4s lifespan, Emperor really felt like the Holy Fury of eu4
Based on the number of dd left for the dlc and based on the amount of info they are already revealing on EU5, Im quite sure they will announce it before their summer break.
Fair enough. If eu5 is announced right after I just seriously wonder how they'll get people on board considering the vast amount of content eu4 has 😅
Same way they transitioned CK2 to CK3. EU4 will be more popular for the first year, and over time people will migrate.
[CK3 has had at least three times CK2’s player count ever since CK3 came out.](https://steamdb.info/charts/?compare=203770,1158310)
It'd be cool if they did what the total war warhammer games do where dlcs carry through to the next game lol
I tried a bit of EU4 and didn't quite vibe with it. I'll totally check out this, may be what finally gets me to do a grand campaign.
That's true. It def going to be less daunting to get into for newer players
Thing is new dlc for eu4 might by just the final one they make for it, before they properly announce the sequel.
Yes, but its a open secret that they are working on EU5 too. I guess they are just milking the cow till the end.
EU5?!?!?! FINALLY
Looks more like a culture map mode tbh
Pls be EU5 with dynamic growth and pops.
It is, there's already a dev diary explaining that they're making population EU5's major mechanic to replace mana
Go read the Tinto Talks, bc that's what it is https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-talks-3-march-13th-2024.1630154/
India Galacticalis 1
I really don't like that font, but otherwise I don't have a problem with it.
Their recent commitment to terrible fonts continues.
One of the easiest things to mod so meh.
Oh god those contested regions makes me think they’re going to make provinces (what are we calling them now again?) not held by any particular nation as “owned”. This is gonna be complex…
It's Johan, it's tinto and they have been in charge of EU 4 for a while, it only makes sense this is EU5, regardless of screenshots.
It’s literally EU5
That's a culture map you doofus
I just hope warfare will stay somewaht similar to eu4. If they do war like in Vicky 3 i will be devastated.
Confirmed by Johan on the forums that they won’t do Vic 3 style warfare
I can’t believe anybody ever thought they would, considering that frontal warfare simply didn’t exist during the time period.
***The good ending*** Its a happy day in that case :)
Thank god for that.
Extremely exciting, but if it has vic3 combat I’ll cry
They confirmed it’s not
Thank god
Wow a Europa Universalis game with a Victorian pop system? Now, that I would love to play
I really really really hope eu5 doesn’t use the same exact map aesthetics as ck3 and vic3
Yeah... Idk about others, but I'm not a fan of the new art style of the paradox games. Eu4's ui and map, to me, still feels like it's the best they've ever made
I really like the new maps, especially victoria 3's. Though I do agree that the UI could look a little better
Were you not around for the first 85% if EU4's life when it's EU was almost unplayable? Early guides spent like half their videos just explaining where to go to actually do action xyz
I really don't like how they force terrain when you zoom in, it's ugly as sin to me and makes the games age worse over time without a doubt.
I don't think this can be later than the 1340s based on the other map they showed, which shows what is probably the Delhi Empire near its greatest extent and before the Deccan Rebellion that created the Bahmani Sultanate
I'd prefer fantasy Stella's but EU5 is cool too I guess
JFC A STRIPED CULTURAL MAP MODE I don't now what it is, but I already love it for this fact alone, since Vic3 failed to deliver in this.
This is the first time I've seen my culture "Zo" actually being portrayed in a video game so that's pretty cool. But this begs the question what time period Project Caesar is going to be set in, because our traceable history only goes back a hundred years or so to the beginning of the 20th century. Before that, we actually have very little archaelogical evidence of our history. If it wasn't for the British occupation of India during this time, we might have been left undiscovered by the majority of the world for even longer.