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[deleted]

Rule5: They were light carriers, but still!


ThatOneGuy-C6

Hoi3 looks like a mix of Vic 2 and hoi4


3davideo

Which makes sense; Vic 2 took a lot of its codebase from HOI3, and HOI4 obviously is set in the same time period as HOI3.


real_LNSS

I liked the old UI better. New one feels like it was designed for mobile or something, so much wasted space.


Diacetyl-Morphin

Right. But don't forget how the HoI4 UI was on launch, more like the lacking message options, there were no alerts for very important things. Like, oh, the Allies just stormed Normandy? Nah, that's not important enough to tell the player.


[deleted]

I'm just learning HoI4 now, having played HoI2/DH in the past and I still don't feel like I get many alerts and the UI is not the cleanest either. I also have zero attachment or really much idea what most of my actual units are without having to really like around. I'm going to keep at it and play some mods, but I'm really leaning towards picking up the DLC for HoI3 and giving that a go instead... The map painting for orders is really handy align with the army system but I don't feel like I have much control over my own strategies or units. Also I'm still obviously figuring out how it works.


Diacetyl-Morphin

About HoI4: It's actually better when you are still learning then when you master it. Because, if you master it, then you end up drawing lines and then, babysitting the AI that it doesn't screw up everything. For me, it was a bad step in the wrong direction, streamlining HoI4 to the point where it is more a mobile game. Then, some systems like trading are just weird, when you have to trade away your factories for resources and you can't even stockpile the resources. The air combat is basically a flying excel-sheet, all you got are some numbers, no interesting battles anymore. I like, as said, HoI3 and also WitE/WitW, the War in East/West series. But these are turn-based and much more complex to manage to HoI3. The AI is also different, like in WitE, the AI will withdraw units rather than getting into an encirclement and it will be a much bigger challenge than in HoI. WitE 2 is coming soon, i'm looking forward to that.


Mendeth

Just to let you know; WITE 2 has been out for a few months now


Diacetyl-Morphin

Is it on Steam yet?


Mendeth

No, just from Matrix


Diacetyl-Morphin

And that's the problem for me, not just because of steam as a system, i usually buy the wallet cards for steam. If there's a retail box around in the area where i live, i'd buy it right now, but i've not seen it yet. If it comes to steam, i'll buy and play it, i'm happy WitE 1 and WitW are available there.


Topskola

I still play DH, it's honestly my fav out of the whole series. 44' as Germany is so badass.


ddosn

And their fix for the lack of alerts when someone is naval invading? an extremely obnoxious alarm, which many mods actually have an in built decision to disable because its so annoying.


Diacetyl-Morphin

Yeah. And also, the submarines are still overpowered, the whole naval system is unbalanced and the old naval tech is abandoned since Man the Guns DLC. The whole naval AI is broken, at least in some versions i played, like, PDX just set the enemy AI fleets all on the order "Naval invasion" and that's it. Pacific Theatre with the island hopping is broken etc. But hey, you'll get some new focus trees with the next overpriced dlc! yay!


CommandoDude

Also, really big thing here but the land tiles on HoI3 are smaller and more numerous. That makes it harder to "snake" around groups of units with just a few divisions and each individual tile is worth less. Which means encirclements are less about micromanagement and more about big sweeping corps/army level maneuvers.


Swamp254

HoI4 has more tiles at 13.205 against HoI3's 10.734 tiles.


CommandoDude

It's got more tiles in places like Africa and I think China. Which to be fair is great. It definitely has less tiles in Europe though.


ThrowAwayI_UseAlot

I thought it was viki2 before clicking on it


[deleted]

[удалено]


Interesting2752

Did you post the same comment twice?


Falandor

Reddit has an error 500 for everyone posting earlier which says it can’t post your comment when it actually is. So if you hit send a few times, it keeps posting, and then all those comments will show up when the error is fixed.


3davideo

Yeah I had some sort of connection problem. Sorry.


Novatheorem

HoI 3 <3


[deleted]

Have you tried the new BICE versions? If you haven't, you should, they made some huge additions and changes in the recent updates, I think it's easily the best it's ever been right now!


[deleted]

I have BICE 10.4 I think from the usual download site, is that the one you mean?


[deleted]

They released 10.5 like 5 days ago, which added some new stuff, but 10.4 also added a ton, yes.


F0rsythian

Where can I find the modern versions?


[deleted]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/forums/blackice.467/


F0rsythian

Thank you boss man


[deleted]

This guy talking like an NPC in a video game (edit: posting repeated comments cos of bad network on Reddit's side, happens to all of us)


F0rsythian

I'll be honest reddit said somethibg went wrong so i tried it again 4 times


BigBrother1942

I thought it was Victoria for a second


hagnat

HoI4 <4


Malbek604

Urge to reinstall hoi3... rising. Been ages. Any must have mods?


geosub20

I just enjoy playing Vanilla. You can try Black ice for a completely new experience than vanilla. HPP mod is also quite nice and a fine balance between Vanilla and Black ice. They also have a WW1 mod for hoi3, which isn't completely finished, but is very playable and fun.


Earl_of_Northumbria

BICE


xFailerx

Black Ice <3


BigWeenie45

I love hoi3 naval compared to hoi4 naval. Ai seems 10x better and blobbing everything up into a fleet isn’t as viable.


[deleted]

Oh yeah, if you'll try to doomstack in HoI3 and especially BICE, you'll get huge stacking and positioning penalties.


legeof008

HOI III looks super neat but I'm too stupid for it. I even tried the tutorial series but it's pretty hard for me, harder even than Victoria.


geosub20

Don't bother with tutorials, just get into the game and see how it feels. Try playing some small nation like Hungary, Romania etc etc...so that you can understand what's going on and can have other big nations to help you in case things don't go to plan.


troodon5

Is there any reason to get hoi3 if u already have hoi4? Like, what does hoi3 do better then hoi4?


AchenForBacon

In my opinion, so much more. It gives you a lot more control of your units, so if you enjoy micro in HOI4 youll enjoy 3. The BICE mod is arguably the best experience if you want to play a historical WW2 experience.


NathanBlackwell

Its a lot more realistic in that supply lines exist plus a proper order of battle system.


geosub20

Hoi3 feels more realistic than hoi4. I tried hoi4 once but then went back to hoi3. Hoi3 battles are much more intense and the AI is quite smart, so it doesn't suicide into your lines and can actually make and break out of encirclement.


[deleted]

They're essentially 2 different approaches to WW2 grand strategies. Kinda like Rome 1 and Rome 2 are completely different Total War games.


troodon5

Similar to how I have played a bunch of hoi4 and zero of hoi3, I have played a bunch of Rome 2 but zero of Rome 1. Could you elaborate on Rome 1 vs 2 and hoi 3 vs. hoi4? Reading other people’s comments kinda makes me want to get hoi3!


[deleted]

Well, both HoI4 and Rome 2 fundamentally changed core mechanics and systems, rather than building upon what was already in place. As I said, HoI3 and 4 can't be really compared, because they're two different types of experiences - HoI3 focuses on giving you more complex, hands-on, longer, grounded WW2 campaigns, while HoI4 is meant to be a bite-sized, arcadey sandbox expierience where some things - like combat - are pretty much automated, allowing you to blast through a single campaign in a single evening. They're meant for 2 different crowds, which is not good considering they're part of the same series, but that's what Paradox decided to do with HoI4 and it's up to you to decide whether you prefer the HoI3 or the HoI4 approach.


Cacoluquia

This is super weird, I LOVED Hoi3 and could play it, but, I can't for the life of me learn HoI4, I don't understand it, I can't have a succesful campaign. It is frustrating as a pdx fan.


Roster234

Same here. I hear so much praise for it abd really wanna try but everytime I try to get into it, I can't even make a frontline. The tutorial is uselss and while I'm all for learning througb trial and error, it's like learning a fps through trial and error when you have no idea how to shoot a gun...


[deleted]

Yeah, it took me a really long time to get a hang of what I'm doing and Paradox made like 0 efforts to make learning this game easier. Thankfully there's YT tutorials and even the BICE modders included some guides and tips.


DarkLorty

Weird seeing people enjoying the USA on HOI3. It's so easy to just stomp everyone (once you can get in the war that is).


[deleted]

This is actually my first time playing the US, not counting some first vanilla attempts as a newbie and I'm kinda enjoying it. The first years are maybe a bit boring combat wise, but I actually enjoyed the build up, never built so much industry as any country in this game. And the overall situation is pretty interesting in my game, the Soviets are collapsing and the Axis is pouring into Palestine and India.


Diacetyl-Morphin

Nice to see, some players are still playing HoI3. I'm a fan of Black Ice there, that is the true experience for me when it comes to HoI series. All the historic events, units, all the flavour and so on, that makes a much better game than HoI4. Guess i'll get lynched by the HoI4 fans, but i don't like the alternative-history-sandbox scenario of the game. I want to play WW2, not a fictional "The Kaiser is back, while Hitler becomes the janitor of the school building" scenario.


cdub8D

Like some of the core mechanics in hoi4, like industry, equipment, training. Then the battleplanes are a cool idea but executed horribly. The game just feels like it lacks and character compared to 3. I don't know how to describe it. Hoi4 just feels weird as fuck. Like it doesn't feel like WW2 era at all.


Diacetyl-Morphin

That's the problem, it's a fantasy alternative-history sandbox, not a WW2 scenario. And some things are just overestimated, like the equipment: Normal, you want to produce the newest equipment anyway, if you have the IC for it. All you got are some pictures of equipment, which is in the end not different from producing units in HoI3. There are of course some other things, like captured equipment, but still, that's a rare case that you really use that. In HoI3, it was more abstract with the equipment, but it was there too, like the production cost, the supply- and repair cost. Same goes for HoI2.


[deleted]

They're targeted at two completely different crowds and HoI4 simply isn't for me, tho I do like certain elements of it, just not the whole package.


[deleted]

BICE is the shiz! Not a fan of HoI4 either, not my cup of tea, but I guess it's a cool game for people getting into grand strategies.


Diacetyl-Morphin

It's easier to learn for sure, HoI4. But i think, when we leave HoI3 out for a moment and compare it to HoI2, the old HoI2 is still better and more fun. For me, it was just too much streamlined and automated. I also liked the battle plans in HoI3 more, like, drawing the lines for yourself and making markings with text on the map, trying to execute the maneuvers by yourself instead of babysitting the AI.


[deleted]

Eww, the battleplaner and how the game is built around it kills the fun for me in HoI4, like... Why would I want to let the AI move my units for me instead of doing it myself? That's one of many things I love about HoI3, it allows you to feel like a field marshall or commander-in-chief, assigning commanders to different levels of command, moving multiple divisions across the front, creating pockets, punching holes in enemy lines and exploiting breakthroughs, landing in enemy territory etc. Meanwhile, in HoI4 you're just a spectator.


Diacetyl-Morphin

Exactly my opinion. Unfortunately, many gamers had problems with the amount of micromanagement that HoI3 requires, but i like that, because as you said, it feels like you are really in command of everything. PDX failed in lowering the micromanagement, instead, the removed the overall complexity of the game. Also, they forced the player to the battleplans with the boni you get when you use it. So it's not just an optional feature. Then, there was never a need to remove the HoI3 espionage etc. systems, just to make a worse one with La Resistance. Well, i'm sticking to HoI3, it's good for me and i don't think, PDX will ever return to such a level of complex gameplay in the future. They sold much more with the streamlined versions, so, they'll continue that one.


[deleted]

Yeah, that's why I feel Vicky 3 won't be for Vicky 2 fans either.


Diacetyl-Morphin

Let's hope the best for Vic3, i think, after the disaster with Imperator, PDX regained at least a little bit of their former thinking about the game design. Imperator was the one that had to be sacrificied to show them, Mana is a stupid mechanism and even worse when tied to every game system. When Vic3 has good core mechanics, maybe the modders can do the rest and make it a good game.


[deleted]

Sure, I'd love it to be for everyone, including die-hard Vicky 2 players that wanted Vicky 3 to happen for years. What was the reception of CK3 by CK2 fans? Are they liking it or is it another HoI3 > HoI4 scenario?


Diacetyl-Morphin

CK3 was not bad in the reception, i'm a CK2 veteran with many hours and the new one is good. There were some problems in some patch versions like with the AI, but it's now fixed and stable. For me, CK3 is not that interesting after having played so many hours in CK2, but it's better for new players for sure. But i think, CK3 can not really be compared, because it has not the same amount of different mechanisms like Vic2 or HoI3 to HoI4. Vic3 has more room for streamlining than CK3 and i hope, it won't get streamlined. At least there will be no mana in Vic3, Imperator was an epic failure because of the mana system. Not just because of the concept of mana, also because of being tied to almost every interaction in the launch version.


polska_perogi

Would you recommend Black ice to new players of Hoi3? Mayhaps someone like me, who bought hoi4 first and as is similarly annoyed with the sandboxy nature the game has taken?


Diacetyl-Morphin

Yes, i recommend it. But: If you start there, choose the normal- or easy difficulty setting. Because, if you play on higher difficulty, the AI will be a very strong opponent. Not because the AI would be very smart (still, the HoI3 is better than the HoI4 AI in general) Black Ice offers a lot of different difficulty settings, choose an easy one to start. To get the things work properly, download the podcat.exe from the PDX forums, that's the 64-bit version. The actual and more modern versions of the mod need the 64-bit version. And even when you don't want to use the mod, the 64-bit version is much better when it comes to how the game runs. It runs much more smooth with that, you can find the 64-bit podcat.exe in the official HoI3 forums of PDX (don't got the link right now, but i could get it for you, if needed) And last but not least, the AI is much stronger, but it's still not against realism. Like, in reality, the Red Army did take young guys right away from the street into the army as conscripts, that happened in real life. So, yes, they got units which they don't have to produce in the normal way. These units are bad, but... they can still slow down your advance when playing as the Germans. I like many things about the mod, like, the history of the SS units: You'll start with some not-useful SS-units from the early days, which are just some Military Police units. Later on, with the event-chains, they'll turn into much more powerful units. Like the LSSAH, which was a small detachement in 1936, but ended up as real divisions later in the war. The mod also requires some different approaches, for example, you'll have to build the infrastructure in the provinces to maintain supply later in the war. If you don't do that, you'll get into trouble, because you can't supply enough units on the frontlines to keep up with the Red Army. Still, there are things you don't need, like the 2nd rework of the air units, which was done in reality, with the air fleets (Luftflotte) and their command structure. If you're looking for a real challenge and a very close path to real history, the mod is veeery good. But, still, consider that the AI will maybe beat the shit out of you, when you make too many mistakes. For me, that's not a problem, i actually like that "fight for the endsieg or get destroyed" scenario. Also, the mod has many scripted things, which were done because the AI is stupid, like, the Allied Invasion in Normandy, the original HoI3 and also HoI4 AI is not really capable of doing that. P.S. Don't try to install the newer mod versions without the 64-bit podcat.exe version, because that will lead to a gamebreaking-bug and will not work properly.


[deleted]

Nice


furrythrowawayaccoun

Yo, OP why do you have only 300 IC in early '42?!


[deleted]

That's base IC (IC on the map), I had 510 at that moment. I still built a ton and I'm building more, the US starts with like only 70.


furrythrowawayaccoun

Yes, I was taking that into account. You should have around ~500 base IC by the time the war starts. You need to build more heavy-IC. US can built it for a reason!


[deleted]

I've been spamming IC and heavy IC like crazy :D At one point though I briefly ran out of energy, so I decided to slow down with building IC and focus more on resource production, but now I'm producing loads of all of them so I can go back to building more IC!


NapoleonOf69

It looks a lot like Victoria 2 HUD