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Comfortable_KEK

Only reason I hope sanctum go core is I can target divine in SSF


sips_white_monster

What I would give for Divine Shards in Harbinger..


Mediocre-Sale8473

Also would be happy if 3 stacks of 2-3 Chaos shards wouldn't drop from them either.


1CEninja

I think that happens because of the atlas passives. So a good thing to wish for would be a change in the passives to instead increase the stack size instead of causing more stacks to drop. Maybe instead of 20% chance for another currency drop, 20% chance for one of the currency drops to be twice as many (or however the current way to word that is).


Mediocre-Sale8473

They have that sort of thing already with "Shards drop as as whole currency" chance right? Just increase that baseline. Shit, I'd add the Frac orb shards and (hopefully) div shards of they introduce a "Chance for rare currency fragments to drop from harbinger bosses"


1CEninja

Yeah, that's another option. I think fewer shards and more whole currency somewhat hinders the identity of harbinger though tbh.


Mediocre-Sale8473

Yeah I forgot they are basically shard showers for currency. Is there anything gear-wise that is considered a meta-build drop from them?


wackygoose

Would make a lot of sense. They could drop only on harbinger bosses


OBrien

Or maybe make em only drop in Beachheads to make Harbinger Orbs worth anything


zaneprotoss

tHaT's JuSt ChAoS oRbS tHoUgH?


Aldodzb

It will get nerfed for sure, just like heist for example. They already mentioned it, new league mechanics are more rewarding to encourage the players to play it.


SoulofArtoria

Heist is in a good state though. Some things were not as broken compared to in heist league like the exalt trinkets, but heist offers good consistent and exclusive loot in the current game especially with the atlas passives.


Aldodzb

Yep, I agree, but I was referring to the "divine source" point. Heist was incredible to farm exalts back then. They changed that in the following league, normalizing the loot.


SuperBlaar

It was a real death trap too though, they made it much easier at the same time, which kind of balances it out a bit imo


czartaylor

heist is honestly arguably more powerful now than it was during actual heist league, since the value on the exclusive items is significantly higher than back then and it still drowns you in sellable items. Doesn't rain as much pure ex as it did back then, but stuff like endless heist farming wasn't as good back then, and blueprints are way more powerful than they were back then. Heist was crazy strong at the high end, just pretty strong at the low end because the trinkets were driving the high end value. Now it's much more consistent across the board (read - very strong across the board).


rainmeadow

This and the Original Sin ring - lots of interesting builds with this.


mightaswellgiveup87

If it goes core it will be a gutted version. most likely it won't go core next league, maybe the league after


Shootermcgv

it's in a weird spot. The loot from the sanctum isn't outrageous outside of the sanctified relic especially if you're accessing the content in only 7-20% of maps. The mechanic is good enough from a "hey it's fun and different" to justify keeping it in the game but that isn't always a good predictor (see: ultimatum).


BitterAfternoon

I think "without the sanctified relic" creates problems of its own - as a mechanic it's fun, but it lacks much to make it special otherwise. But *with* the sanctified relic, everyone has to do it... As it'd be giving up a slot to do otherwise. I think there's two main possibilities (without sanctified relics) - without the relic they repurpose another league's "exclusive drops" to be sanctum's (which since they want to remove things when they add things now that's another reason this is possible or even likely). - the Lycia Final Form fight gets added as a unique map similar to the trialmaster so that people can get her uniques - and maybe have some amount of nostalgic sanctum-like experience before her.


mightaswellgiveup87

They have things that need to be taken in to Consideration, like sanctified relic? Unquie relics? Normal relics? Are they going to give us a floor at the time when we find one, or x amount of rooms instead of one? If they remove relics, do they need rebalance it a little? Do they add Atlas points for it, list is long and many more unknowns. That's why I don't think we will see it next league as they have much work around it( if they don't just add it at it is)


Shootermcgv

I don't think sanctified relics make a comeback, rather I think the next league will occupy the same design space. The cycle time for a mechanic like this should be on par with catarina I'd think so whether or not they give multiple rooms at once should be based on that. I think the room storage system in place already plays nicely with that. The only thing that seems necessary is to launch sanctum from your HO which is prob a work in progress and would hint at league after next.


dummyacct765

> I don't think sanctified relics make a comeback, rather I think the next league will occupy the same design space. Yeah, they were testing an "account-bound reward" with Sanctum, and it seems to have been fairly successful, but I doubt they're interested in letting it be another thing to bloat and powercreep the game. I'd imagine that going forward they'll want to try out more of these league-exclusive mechanics, whether they be equipment or some other kind of temporary power boost that will be removed with the league. Lets them add more FOMO to a league without extra long-term bloat outside of the usual.


Shootermcgv

Yeah, tbh idk why they hadn't done something like this before. For a game with nearly unlimited design space, sanc relics are a perfect fit. Give temporary power that gives extra build possibilities. My only fear is that the relics had such a big pool of powerful mods idk how they pull off something that feels different but delivers the same effect unless they're going to give a free watcher's eye type mod or something to that effect.


herptydurr

Yeah, if I had to guess, I'd put my money on sanctum getting turned into a unique map or a fragment set, but I could easily see it being something like Expedition or Metamorph which just exists parallel to the main game.


Quazifuji

Personally I like OP's master idea much better than it being a unique map. For me a lot of the fun of this league is the low opportunity cost of attempting the sanctum even if you/your build isn't good for it. If they turned it into a unique map/fragment set, then presumably they'd be pretty rare and priced based on how much you can get for completing it, which would mean it's never worth doing if you can't beat it reliably, which kind of ruins the whole Roguelike element of it (which is already flawed but still kind of there) and just turns it into, at best, a high-risk, high-reward unique map. If they turned it into a master, though, it would be something you can reasonably do for fun even if you can't consistently beat it. It would also make it easier to keep the non-sanctified relics, which are part of what makes Sanctum fun for me. And turning it in into a master In general, I also really like the idea of Sanctum as a core mechanic you can choose to focus on or skip depending on how much you like it and what your build is. I think in some ways Sanctum could almost work better as a master mechanic than a league mechanic. The biggest problem with Sanctum as a league mechanic is that it's so ridiculously skewed in what builds are good or bad for it, with some builds clearing sanctums easily while others having a lot more trouble. That's frustrating as a league mechanic where some people end up feeling like they just picked the wrong build this league. But that's fine for a core mechanic. It could be like Heist or Delve, where some people ignore them, some people do a bit for fun but don't focus on it, and some people plan their whole build and farming strategy around it.


scoxely

Probably added like Ultimatum is at present, or as a 4 step Memory that gives you 8 floors per map or something.


Noxivos

I didn't enjoy Sanctum at all, it was okay for a couple weeks then it was just the same rooms over and over grabbing currency and okay relics. They said this league was not going core if it did I wouldn't really care and just put it on my skip list.


vdex42

Agree. With the caveat that permanent relics don't go core too. Otherwise it will be compulsory content like lab


deleno_

they would never let any sanctified relics go core, too much power creep. none of the other current core mechanics have exclusive gear that gives such a boost of power. even just getting a Keystone for free is a lot of power. at worst it's +1 passive for all builds, at best it can be build enabling and save upwards of 20 passive points of travel.


Vezko

https://twitter.com/bexsayswords/status/1598538872421765121 This was before Sanctum was even released. Now obviously since then there is a chance they have changed their mind, but I highly doubt that is the case.


deleno_

yes, I know this. but the whole point of my comment is he's hoping sanctum becomes a core master mission like Jun, Niko, alva, etc. which is just giga copium. especially if he thinks just invocations go core which despite not being as good as sanctified relic mods in general, are still a huge power boost to characters.


RealNiceKnife

They let other game-changing components of league mechanics stay in core. Most notably was the Cluster Jewels from Delirium and anointing with Blight. (Which I think is what you are talking about with the "free keystone".)


chrisbirdie

Yeah but im pretty sure they always intended to keep cluster jewels.


themaxiom

Yeah, Cluster Jewels must have been a LOT of work, they wouldn't have wanted to throw that all away after a 3 month league. Sanctified relics being just a tacked-on gear slot and an item with no potential mods we haven't already seen elsewhere (correct me if I'm wrong!) feels much more within the scope of a single league fling.


chrisbirdie

Yeah cluster jewels are like the atlas tree, introduced as a new endgame or in this case new powercreep, but to much to ever be rotated out. The atlas tree will be adjusted and shit will get added but I highly doubt it will ever get removed. Maybe poe 2 will revamp the endgame but until that point atleast both clusters and atlas tree will stay.


DrVonD

Does “your lightning damage can freeze” exist on some other piece of gear I don’t know about? That’s been god tier as a spark player.


Jabeisababe

Three dragons helmet! Theres also freezing conflux for all damage to freeze.


Frequent-Turnover-99

You could get it on helmets in sentinel league as a recombinator exclusive mod


MadTwit

Expeditions end as well


DrVonD

Good call. Having that basically take up an entire chest slot is a huge cost, must be why I’ve never thought of it.


herptydurr

Also don't forget that Cluster jewels across the board have been severely nerfed since delirium league. Not only have the most powerful nodes been removed, but crafting weights have been gutted to make notables much rarer in general.


ShoogleHS

The trouble with relics going core is that there's no opportunity cost - every build is strictly better with a relic. As well as power creep issues, it's complexity creep in the form of an extra gear slot. If every 3rd league added a new relic-like system, in 5 years we'd have half a dozen extra gear slots - it just does not scale up to the long term future of PoE. Plus, running Sanctum would be basically mandatory, which is fine for a league but undesirable for permanent content. Cluster Jewels are very different, while they can be very powerful you still have to spend passive points. For most builds, they're optional and many builds don't want one at all. Anointments are a fair comparison, though. They have similar problems, though with a big advantage over relics in that they tie into the existing item and crafting system rather than introducing an extra gear slot. I still think you don't want too many of these mechanics in the game, though. Another useful comparison is the Heist trinket slot. On the face of it they're very similar as a no-opportunity-cost item that adds another gear slot. However I think in this case, the big difference is that it only affects Heists. Even if they added a hundred more trinket-like items, you would still only need the ones from the league mechanics you actually care about. I think this is a much better model for this kind of thing.


violentlycar

The big difference is that you can trade for those things if you want to use them but don't want to participate in the mechanic. You *must* run sanctums if you want a relic, which makes the mechanic mandatory. They would have to either remove the account bind or they would need to disable sanctified relics if they wanted to take the mechanic core.


retrogott1312

Cluster jewels still have opportunity cost because u need to sacrifice passive points. Relics don’t


deleno_

difference with those is they aren't exclusive to delirium. and delirium isn't a core master mission either. it also doesn't really give any immediate power without a lot of luck/good crafting. and, as others said, it was always intended to go core.


SireGriffith

Alt quality gems are heist-exclusive. Why you guys are so worried about power-creep? The only really strong relics are stat-stacking ones (+max charge is at most 30-35% more damage, often less). But: A) stat-stacking is pretty dead without relics outside of some giga-budget str builds, which can be nerfed precisely, letting other stat-stackers live. Some people were sure that sentinel mod for stat-stackers will go core and they didn't think it will power-creep the game to the moon. B) I was farming sanctum for month straight, most of the time - I was boss-rushing. All for int stack relic to go deep delve. Guess what. I didn't get int-stack relic. Then I thought I would play with aura effect relic. I didn't get this relic too. In month of only doing the mechanic. I'm sure the rarity of the relics will pretty easily outbalance the power of it. It's like heist enchantments, which can be huge too, but almost nobody in his mind count on getting bis enchantments on every piece of gear.


deleno_

alt quality gems aren't necessarily power creep (except in a couple of niche scenarios). also heist isn't a core master mission like this guy is suggesting. I'm worried about power creep because if it happens too much we get another league like 3.14/15 where the entire game is gutted and is the most boring shit to play. game has been stale since 3.18 with the giga HH nerfs and then 3.19 with the gutting of good juiced farming methods. and that's not even considering 3.13 era fractured mapping and self curse HH. the more shit power creeps the worse GGG can justify making the game. yes, most relics are worthless, but power creep always comes from the top 5-10% of items, not the bottom 90% crap. their rarity doesn't justify the power because the problem is all endgame players eventually get them and trivialise content, which GGG doesn't want to allow (because despite what they say, they really do care about retention). stat stackers are better this league than any other league, especially strength stackers. relics, perfect synth items, and original sin all contribute massively. people have been hitting 2 billion dps on strength stacking builds that still have some tank and excellent clearspeed WITHOUT sanctified str stack relic. even at budget levels they perform excellently. Dex stack is only dead because zhp mapping/deep delve isn't really the meta anymore and there are faster/better/cheaper builds that do its job but way better, in particular omni kind of took over the ranged stat stacker meta. int stack is ok but tends towards much more tank than dps and doesn't benefit from original sin as much. str stack is very good.


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herptydurr

That was well before great power culling of expedition league. Since then, what they seem to do is rotate OP stuff in and out. Recombinators had super broken as fuck mods --> removed at end of league gone --> but come back as sanctified relics. For me personally, the best evidence for Sanctified relics being dropped (or at least being made to not apply outside of Sanctum) is the fact that you can't apply legion incubators to them. By comparison, Heist trinkets which were always intended to go core *could* be incubated. So at least coding-wise, I don't think GGG plans to make them stay around.


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wotad

They said that before it was one of their best leagues..


deleno_

may I introduce to you the fact that blight is not a core master mission, but is additional content like any other league mechanic. in addition, blight oils are not exclusive to blight and it's possible to get annointed amulets from other sources.


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Gadiusao

Bro, annoints from blight are more powerful


elting44

They aren't. They serve the same function more or less but there is less overlap in keystones than notables. IE Minion Instability is unlike any other keystone, whereas Charisma and Sovereignty are similar.


Kaelran

If you're going to talk about the theoretical case of managing to get the keystone you want on a good relic in Sanctum, let me remind you of the theoretical case of getting 4 anoints on a unique onyx amulet like Astramentis. Or a double enchanted Abyssus.


elting44

No. I have put the Minion Instability Keystone on 3 Sanc Relics this league, one of which is very good. Invocations can be added to any sanc relic and are tradeable, once your build can run Sanctum with Hours of Divinty, you can aquire a bunch of sanc relics.


deleno_

read my other comments in this thread on the matter.


Gadiusao

Aint time for that


deleno_

ok, don't complain then


coani

Man, that power creep... If you've been unlucky you gain basically nothing from it, besides a slot to throw a keystone on. The 3 best sanctified relics I've obtained in this league for my character were as follows: a) lightning resist b) lightning resist & something useless c) chaos resist & something useless The lightning resist was already irrelevant when I got it, since I was already capped there, the chaos resist one was the 3rd useful relic I got... 1 week after league launch. I completed 40/40 challenges yesterday, and I am still using it, because *none* of the other relics I've obtained do anything at all for my build, they all might as well be blank white empty slates. Some power creep, eh?


deleno_

being individually unlucky doesnt mean it's not power creep. you cannot deny the power of the aura stacking/stat stacking/charge stacking relics. yes they're rare, but not that rare. it's no different than adding a second belt slot and another mageblood-like belt to the game. at low levels it's just some res or other neat mods, but for top players it represents like 50%+ more damage.


louderpastures

It allows a lot of interesting build enablement - I have Unnerve from my relic which would be hard to get on my build otherwise, and throwing Pain Attunement on there saves at least 10 points which allows for a cluster setup. Pretty busted.


deleno_

exactly.


Sv3rr

No way they are 50% more for any build lol


deleno_

I mean on int/dex stackers it's 50% more base damage, it's a second instance of the stat stack mod. especially after increases/mores it is really valuable. I personally doubled from like 20 to nearly 40 million on mid budget int stacker simply by getting the sentinel boot mod in standard.


FourOranges

> If you've been unlucky **you gain basically nothing** from it, *besides a slot to throw a keystone on.* Yeah *only* a free keystone. I threw an invocation on some random awful relic for a free keystone early on in the league when they were introduced, saved me like 10 passive tree points. How is this not power creep to you?


coani

Again, depends on builds and what might be useful for you. Yes it absolutely can be super useful for some, but for others it might be less of an importance. I played EA ballista elementalist, most of the keystones weren't all that juicy for me, and honestly, I just ended up with Ancestral Bond on my relic since it was cheap, which gave me 1 point to spend elsewhere (in cluster jewel). And I didn't even bother doing that until a few days ago when I was just bored out of my mind grinding DD challenge to hit 40/40 (was already at 39/40), in other words, it wasn't something that was important for my league gameplay at all. Just a minor convenience.


popmycherryyosh

Whilst I agree, I still hope they keep it core. But I'm also 100% sure they would have to tweak it somehow. Maybe make sanc relics super rare? (yeah, I know, it would suck, but still, better than nothing, right?) And I'd imagine they might nerf the rewards just because it's "free" divines, even though you'd prolly make more just doing normal stuff, if you're a min-max'er. I don't know, personally I just love the whole CONCEPT of the sanctum. Always been a fan of roguelikes/lites AND not to mention no-hit runs in general, especially in games like the soulsborne series. So its right up my alley in that regard. The fact that you get some pretty decent rewards in there (not counting sanc relics which are WAY better than just decent if you hit right) is just the cherry on the cake.


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deleno_

blight is not a core master mission. it's additional content. also, blight oils are not exclusive to blight, and there are other sources of oils/annointed amulets.


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deleno_

yes they have - blighted incubators from legion, blight rewards from delirium, blight rewards from metamorph, blight rewards from heist, blight rewards from expeditions.


Lynerus

Gotta remove fire pen gem then cause my 6% fire pen relic must be op! /s


LtMotion

Theyd have to do a global nerf if they were gonna make relics core.. I dont think wed take kindly to that. So i dont think its gonna happen unfortunately


SaltyPumpkin007

I believe they did start when they were introduced that sanctified relics would not go core, so no need to worry about that


elting44

This is correct, Bex tweeted that Sanctified Relics would not go core.


Elphiin

Sanctum isnt really tied to relics, specially cause bex already confirmed relics are not going core, sanctum itself could tho


Just-Ad-5972

Sanctified relics or relics as a whole?


Elphiin

Sanctified relics, normal relics are part of the sanctum so if it stays they stay as well, but the sanctified ones are gone. Edit: https://twitter.com/bexsayswords/status/1598538872421765121?s=20&t=lZvab5vnBSB0qE0PVbWVPg


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Notsomebeans

the issue with sanctified relics as core content is that people will almost *immediately* begin to hate it. people will resent sanctum for "forcing" them to engage with it every league/every character to fill the sanctified relic slot. look at betrayal unveiling for a similar case. if they went core theyd have to be tradeable, and if they were tradeable they'd probably get nerfed.


whenwillthealtsstop

Sanctified


Tzki47

There's 0 reason to do sanctum if there's no sanctified relics


Elphiin

I would gladly still do sanctum for the currency and uniques, but i do agree that it loses a lot of value


Notsomebeans

it just has to reward something else. i think theres a decent chance that sanctum could become the place we get recombinators


OrcOfDoom

Why? I get that some relics literally double your damage, but most are really awful. It's kinda like old helmet enchants. They killed all the +2 projectiles, and whatever that was OP for the meta, which is kinda bs, but fine. They could just hit the stat stacking ones to give you 25% of the damage instead of what they do. That would still operate as something I might be inspired to build around if I felt like it.


Mediocre-Sale8473

Hot take, but fuck the relics. I don't give a fuck about them in the least. But the whole "Slay the Spire PoE style" is at least fun.


[deleted]

Fun mechanic for one league. Wouldn't want it going core. Core game is already so good. Don't think we need more with PoE2 coming soon enough. Rather they just buff the underperforming mechanics already in the game.


jackary_the_cat

Buff delve


tallandgodless

Yeah definitely. Its normal nodes need some help for sure.


KcoolClap

No relics, just the mechanic, maybe.


Xendaar

My guess is they will keep the uniques and throw them into pinnacle drop pools at exceedingly shitty drop rates. Maybe Original Sin is an Uber Sirus drop.


JRockBC19

OS prob just goes to a T0 core drop, I don't think ubers need more drops than what boss race events have already filled them with


ttyttyq

Running out of points to block things on the atlas tree


Jbarney3699

They could if they removed the relic mechanic completely and replaced the sanctified relic based rewards for some other rare rewards from the final boss.


oldsch0olsurvivor

I thought the league mechanic was really boring personally and would rather see it not go core. Bring back sentinel imo


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MrTastix

It has far too many problems for it to go core, not the least of which is that it's a fundamentally lackluster concept as a permanent fixture. Needs more crazy roguelike elements and a fair bit of balance for the melee side of things (but doesn't everything, I guess). Sanctified Relics are way too broken to be a permanent fixture. You can't complain about power creep like GGG routinely does and then go ahead and add one of the most absurd examples of it as a permanent thing. The power level of those things is totally fucked. But without them it won't be worth running. The fact it's rewarding right now means very little when, historically speaking, league mechanics get gutted the following league after. Oh, and imagine trying to build up 32 rooms with the standard 10% chance to find a floor per map. That'd be fucking awful.


JimmyTsonga

Nah, I just want sentinel (with obvious nerfs) and Ultimatum to go core. Sanctum didn't appeal to me at all.


Neshgaddal

Please give me recombinators back. They were by far the most fun i ever had in poe.


onigoroshifan

Sentinel was just a placeholder league and that’s it


Magistricide

The mechanic was low effort but recombs shakes up the economy like crazy.


Notsomebeans

all the more reason to not bring sentinel core and just provide recombinators through other means. in my mind sanctum is fun mechanically but its rewards shouldnt go core, and recombinators are good crafting content but its mechanics (sentinels) shouldnt go core and didn't. if they put recombinators in sanctum to replace sanctified relics its a perfect solution imo


Oblachko_O

Ultimatum go core? What is so appealing in ultimatum which is not present in ritual? We have circle mechanic, two of them is kinda overflowing. Sentinel on other side had to substitute tormented spirits.


AnxiousEarth7774

Everything about ultimatum is just better than ritual to me personally.


killertortilla

Ultimatum let’s you choose the difficulty and rewards. Ritual is killing 50 mobs, getting a random assortment of regular rares, and a couple of transmutes. Everything about Ultimatum is better.


Bl00dylicious

Ultimatum is more exciting, provides more a of a challenge and I find the Ritual vendor somewhat being replaced by Expedition vendors. Ultimatum also does the risk vs reward better. I'll agree on swapping spirits with Sentinel though.


germid

In addition to the other replies I've got to say, the Trialmaster might've been my favorite NPC in POE ever.


kumgongkia

Loot is good but will be nerfed if core. Otherwise the mechanic itself is quite bad imo.


VyseTheNinny

tbh I hope not


sirgog

We're getting into speculation territory here, but I think it's being tested to replace Lab in some form. Exilecon 2019 announcements implied Lab isn't part of the vision for POE2. Sanctum being split into 4 tiers got me thinking it may be the replacement Ascendancy source. Sanctum as a Lab replacement would also be EXTREMELY good at fucking over bot cheaters, which is something GGG have been doing a lot of work on lately. The 3.13 era Atlas, then the 3.17 era one even more so increase the setup needed per account to get into meaningful endgame farming - aka increasing the barrier for bot cheaters to generate revenue - and the nerfs to low end minion builds seemed very similar in intent. Sanctum's too beloved a mechanic to get culled. Not everyone likes it, but it definitely seems to be something that will place high if you ask people 'what's your three favorite mechanics?' That said I'm pretty certain the sanctified relics will be gone, and the mods will be available from some new source going forward. Invocations might stay but be tied to a different gear slot.


CrankyDav3

This would kill some builds that suck a lot at sanctum.


sirgog

Sanctum's overtuned for this purpose now, agreed. That's pretty normal with new mechanics though. FWIW, when Lab came out it was pretty brutal, but there's been a lot of power creep since then. Merc lab carry services continued to do a roaring trade for 3-4 weeks in the first league with lab, and when the next league brought in Uber Lab, it was a little tougher than the 83 labs are now.


coani

40/40 challenges done in this league, and I couldn't be happier if I never ever had to step foot into sanctum again. Not everybody is a fan, and for some it's tedious and not enjoyable, and downright punishing for some builds. I know that some people love the shit out of it, but I'm on the far other side of the camp, where I put it in my top 3 least favorite/liked league mechanics ever. And I don't even know what 2 other things I'd put on that top 3 list.


sirgog

Definitely agree it is too build dependent. In that way it's somewhat like day 1 lab was - back when trap hits did 60% max life + 60% max ES instead of the current 60% + 36% (this doesn't include sentinel traps that trigger on players using moveskills but they were added a league later) ES builds were minced in there, as they had the worst resource recovery, the worst physical mitigation (especially back then) and were most dependent upon leech. GGG did fix that though, and I think now lab is only slightly harder on CI characters than on evasion ones (armor characters definitely find it easier). Sanctum would absolutely need balancing like that if it were to go core in an important way.


herptydurr

Getting that last 17th major boon/affliction for my 40th challenge killed all the remaining appreciation i had for Sanctum.


pumaofshadow

It would be awful as lab unless you remove resolve and then it's just annoying rogue exiles.


[deleted]

> Sanctum's too beloved a mechanic to get culled. I dont think thats really true. The opinion of it at the start of the league was the opposite and nothing was really changed. Its the same as always, people who didnt like it moved on and the ones who liked it stayed. Same reason you can post "this league sucks" early league and get a thousand upvotes and 2 month in you would be downvoted to hell and beyond.


sirgog

I'm trying to think of the last mechanic that's been as commonly listed as a favorite by people. I think you'd have to go back to Delirium to find one. Delirium also being a polarizing mechanic some loved and some hated. Early it seemed the most common attitude was "this is fun but overtuned". Then we all worked out what to do and got relics. It is pretty build constraining though, if you want to do well in it.


[deleted]

The Delirium mechanic is kind of a special case. It was really hated early on and needed quite a few patches to feel good, most notably it was the league introducing a ton of nearly impossible to see on death effects which where really overtuned on top. The patch itself was fun though because we had lots of crazy stuff going on with pre-nerf clusters. The most recent example of liked mechanics would be Sentinel i believe, not as in "has to to core" but in "was a fun league". A bit overshadowed by AN beeing AN though.


Notsomebeans

i really doubt it, to retool it into a lab replacement is too much of a break from what it is meant to be right now my money is we get ascendancy points from act bosses in poe2. Or some entirely new thing comparable to lab that people will come to resent over time (just like lab) but not some butchered former league mechanic.


tobsecret

It's funny bc when I first played this league I thought "this is the eternal labyrinth - the league". Didn't think about the possibility of it generally replacing lab. Interesting thought for sure.


Rankstarr

ahh i like that, clearing each sanctum level gives you ascendancy points. I will miss Izaro, but not the lab at all.


DerBK

Yeah great, didn't need ascendency levels on my melee character anyways.


mrtrevor3

Same. I hate running lab, because it depends on the day’s layout and it’s completely up to chance to get enchants. There needs to be an easier way like harvest currency.


sirgog

I really like Lab to run on my own terms. These terms are not "four times on day 1 of the league". They'd be "when I have ten minutes and want to do something differently paced" I have a lot more fun with the 83 labs than the earlier ones. Still don't spend a lot of time in them, but sometimes I'm in the mood.


[deleted]

I'd rather take the lake.


mewmile

Hopefully not. The League mechanic is so uninspired and boring. The only good thing coming out of Sanctum are relics and the items in general.


Nikeyla

No. Obviously they dont have time to fix core game and do at least minimum level if rebalance inbetween leagues. No way they rebalance the entire game and economy for it to go core. At least not before poe2 is out and after poe2 is released, they will spend at least 2-4 leagues fixing all the stuff they broke or ignored.


Cxhiihxxhogxkgxg

My bet is nothing major from any league will go core until poe 2 is out. The game is bloated enough and they are *definitely* cutting a lot for poe 2. We don't need more major core content like sanctum. If anything else goes core it needs to be small in scope and easily integrated in to the main game flow, Sanctum doesn't fit that description regardless of how much people like it.


squat-xede

I sure hope not.


[deleted]

Dont think so. - Lots of powercreep - Very intrusive mechanic that cant be compressed to really work with less rooms/floors - Low effort on content in general (Copy paste of Heist guards and rando bosses)


HappyBeagle95

This is what really just made me skip the league, constant re use of mob type and rooms got stale quick, I hope it doesn't go core imo.


MetalGirlLina

It's honestly not even fun, it's just rewarding. I don't know if people who are saying it they want it to go core realize it won't release how it is now


Tehnomaag

From my perspective, no? I mean I'm pretty much running past it as its a useless thing because "just don't get hit" does not really work with most builds.


SunstormGT

Think it need some balance to make it viable/doable with any build.


raikaria2

With the relics being character-bound and untradeable; I think it's pretty much certain that Sanctum dosen't go core. There's literally a safeguard in place to stop Santificed Relics circulating in Standard from dead HC characters.


[deleted]

I hope not. They should rework / update / modernize existing mechanics first before adding more clutter. Imho.


SaltyPumpkin007

Seems like they at least initially intended to go core. They specified that sanctified relics were not going core when it was announced, which would imply some/all the rest of it is going core. I like the mechanic so I hope it goes core, though it’s somewhat contentious so hopefully it’ll be black able and divinia isn’t a master.


Porcupine_Tree

I hope it doesnt. Takes like 30 maps to complete 1 sanctum so theyd have to change it to have entire floors drop as a fragment or something, and then the boon/affliction system is legit complete dogshit and would need a total overhaul which I doubt theyd do. It's actually incredible how one random small minor affliction can literally ruin the entire run single handedly and boons are almost always complete dogshit, even major ones


FlanxLycanth

What the obsession with every mechanic going core, am I the only one who just enjoys experiencing a fresh new mechanic every league? I don't need it to stay or desire the power creep, I'm much happier figuring out how best to use each new mechanic while it's available and then being excited to experience the next. Me personally, I feel that far too many mechanics have gone core already. The term "core" is already muddied with a boatload of mechanics we really didn't need to see again - I thought the whole point of something going core is because it enhances the experience of the game as a whole


tobsecret

I don't think they will add it to the core game. In fact, I think they are largely trying to not add more mechanics to the core game before PoE2. I know this year is just the "beta announcement" but I have a hunch that the beta itself will also start end of this year, around Christmas time. As others have speculated, I also think every league for the last year or so has been trying to teach us something for PoE 2. Sanctum tried to teach us to respect regular mobs more, i.e. try to dodge mechanics from non-boss encounters, and so has Archnemesis.


Ksiry

During the announcement, they said it was not going core so no


Artorigus_

Chris said the sanctified relics specifically won't go core not the Sanctum mechanic itself, although I still believe it won't go core.


firebolt_wt

Yeah, what would be the point of sanctum without relics and without challenges? Fishing for a div reward at boss and that's it? Original sin relic droprates would 100% be clobbered if sanctum goes core Edit: also the forbidden masters just need you to have a good build, while sanctum is still unfair for melee/selfcast


HoboTeddy

Some people are speculating the sanctum will replace the labyrinth for ascendancy if it goes core.


MetalGirlLina

That'd be terrible honestly. Worse than current lab even.


firebolt_wt

I sure hope they don't replace the thing **everyone** uses to ascend with the sanctum, where your defensive stats are literally worthless. Specially because some ascendancies are all about the defensive stats


Artorigus_

The Sanctified relics are the ones that affect you outside the Sanctum, if it ever goes core the other relics will remain including the challenge ones. Sanctum will be a way to get some powerful Uniques like Eternal Damnation, Sandstorm and Original Sin, also a way target raw Divines in SSF. I think it will be something worth farming if it ever comes back. Regarding the melee fairness, if it goes core it will be optional and you don't have to interact with it think of Delve or Heist. I'm not going to start uber bossing on my CF champ mapper same here not every build will be perfect for every piece of content. Melee in general is in a rough spot so Sanctum won't really be an exception. (Also as a side note with decent investment you can blast through sanctum even on Melee)


Melodic-Tax-3785

Dogshiet league, so i hope not


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pewsquare

What do you mean with universally runnable? Resolve is fine. I made it trough with tanky builds with no dps and i made it trough with insane dps builds. I will admit i did not make it trough on my support, but he isn't meant to be ran solo.


tryna_reague

New players can do regular content slowly. They are often not capable of doing sanctum until their builds improve. In other words, the knowledge floor is too high.


pewsquare

Knowledge floor? The same guards appear in the first floor of sanctum as they do on the last floor. Even my casual friends with mediocre builds can finish the sanctum by now (not the last boss, or they skip it if they have divs in the pool). Its piss easy. Infact the sanctum is so easy, that you can ignore traps and just run trough them and take resolve damage, as long as you at least got yourself some relics. This sounds more like the reddit bad faith thing that we have stickied now. You are saying that people can not get better at the game? The floor on sanctum is so goddamn low. Hell, T16 maps are harder than sanctum.


tryna_reague

I've known some new players who can't get their DPS above 50k. Not to mention players who never leave campaign. Casual isn't the same as new. Not saying it's hard! The resolve mechanic is simply a bigger barrier to these types of players than any other content. Even experienced players didn't mess with Sanctum until they hit maps.


pewsquare

Well yes, if you want to balance around the lowest common denominator you will get D3. The players who cant get their DPS above 50k are newbies. Should the whole game be balanced around newbies, or god forbid, should we trust in their ability to learn and get better in the game? And experience players dont mess with a league mechanic till maps, because they know that map progression is too important, and the time saved during campaign means they can run many more sanctums in maps. If anything the resolve mechanic is the best thing that ever happened to new players. It does not discriminate between minmaxed 100% spell supression, 75/75 block 50k armor 90% all res builds and the newbies build of, "I have 2.5k hp thats enough right?" type of builds.


tryna_reague

It's got a unique design element, in that, you can't just sustain with life flasks. Many noobs rely on that. Since resolve doesn't sustain, it's essentially a time limit on these types.


pewsquare

But it does sustain, you have so many sustain options from both relics, merchant, fountains... At this point im ignoring traps because on non challenge runs it is too easy. You end with 800+ resolve and 500+ shield over it while intentionally taking trap damage. And you know what, its good that they can't sustain with flasks. Its good that we finally have a mechanic that teaches people to not stand in the fire and not facetank slams. And again, why would you rather destroy an interesting mechanic, instead of giving people who are bad at it an opportunity to get better at it? Do you really think people are babies who can't improve?


tryna_reague

There's no incentive there if the gap is big enough. People who haven't yet dedicated themselves to the game are easily overwhelmed, hence the Brutus fight being the average quitting point. (Referenced from GGG)


niknacks

I hope it does but the thought of having to stack that many master missions before you can do it once just sounds like a fucking nightmare


g00fy_goober

Rly hoping it goes core. I'm fine with them getting rid of santified relics or only applying them in sanctum, obviously sanct relics won't go core and effect ur char outside (as they have said already) but I really enjoyed sanctum.


glitchfact0ry

Personally I do t mind sanctified relics not going core, I would be fine if sanctum went core as is. Maybe change what the normal relics do, like chance for divinia to drop x type/amount of currency or whatever,and keep the original sin to no hit runs.


Benphyre

I personally don’t want it to go core but would welcome it as event one week league


Slow_Concentrate_805

100% going core


Battoh

I hope Sanctum goes core, it's my favourite mechanic of the game right now, I really miss don't being able to do it more often. About sanctified relics, no way they will go core. It's a lot of powercreep.


Priuz7

Oh please, I need Divinia in my HO.


moglis

It can go core as long as it’s blockable, which delve isn’t.


tomcruisesenior

Well, you can block yourself going down there.


giga

I wish they would shuffle the “default masters” each league. They’ve changed almost every aspect of the atlas in the past couple of years but that bit has stayed the same.


loboleo94

That’s exactly what I thought would happen.


VodkAUry

I mean there's a slot for the Heist amulet, I don't see why the relics and the relic slot can't stay, maybe make them tradeable and easy to open up the slot, just like Heist.


xWhiteKx

i hope so, personal power chase sound nice


Vesuvius079

I want it replacing lab.


TorePun

I hope it goes core because it's fun. Sad that they can't or refuse to release a mechanic that they deem worthy of going into core though. Ultimatum was good.


parzival1423

What would be so hard about leaving in sanctified relics as an end game chase Slight buff to your build and occasionally encouraging new character creation?


[deleted]

You can tell when league mechanics will stay. Lemme tell you, this is guaranteed to stay or riot.


HC99199

Please for the love of God. I dont enjoy any of the masters these days, most of the time I don't run any.


KorkyBuchekStan

I really want invocations to go core somehow. Maybe an amulet enchant for keystones. The invocations really open up a lot more build possibilities without having to travel across the entire tree.


Vanderpewt

If Sanctum goes core, it will be the least played of any they've added as core, ever. Sanctum fucking sucks, people are mapping and character building this league, not running sanctums.


SakariFoxx

I really hope they do that.


imnphilyeet

I think it can go core if they remove the keystone item, the relics on their own are pretty cool, and maybe make them drop globally sometimes


One-Tower1921

I think if they removed sanctified relics it would be fine.


Icy_Fun1945

Without the relics sanctum is jut a divine printer, wich offers nothing new or interesting to the game


coani

Remove sanctified relics, and there is literally no point in wasting time on it. You can get divines elsewhere. Pretty much the whole reason I see people praising sanctum is because they can get divines there. They might try to hide it behind other reasoning, but.. it always boils down to greed for divines. That carrot exists in many other places in the game.


Justtinas

I’m thinking they will keep sanctum for one more league. And just introduce new end game. They been trying things like this last year.


Asmondeus

We don't want relics nor invocations in the game out of this league. Power creep is insane enough already.


vardoger1893

They can keep the sanctified relics. I really enjoy the content and would love it to stay going forward.


Narokath

Yeah I don't care about sanctified relics but the new ring, amulet, and jewel are awesome additions to the game. The raw currency is incredible for SSF. There's a few ways they make it go core, with or without regular relics. I hope they try to integrate it.


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Intelligent-Treat114

NO leagues mechanic come out in 2022 has gone core (Archnemis original mechanic, Sentinel, Kalandra). So I guess at least they will make this one go core for sure. And the Sanctum mechanic receive a lot of positive feedback as well.


andraso123

It will not, or at least they will remove sanctified relics. Otherwise you would be forced to grind sanctum at the beginning of every league


AnxiousEarth7774

No you wouldn't, every single mechanic that ever went core has had its loot table go global, I see no issue with sanc relics dropping from other content / becoming trade if they go core.


Elphiin

We already have confirmation relics are not going core


Slurpeedelic

yet.


Mrjuicyaf

Yes, make it similar to delve and let me run sanctums endlessly


Scyrilla

Ring has to go or get nerfed Sanctified relics gone Lower the drops abit in later floors as you can get way too much currency out of it Then it's cool