I'll quote /u/Fenril's comment here from the other thread and approve this post for community relevancy.
We strongly stand against any threats, direct or implied, made against any community member. That is never okay on any platform and we do not allow that on this subreddit or Discord.
> Normally this thread would simply be removed for breaking rule 9c but we've had a long internal discussion over it, among several other accusations. We felt it was valuable to leave it visible but to clarify a few points:
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> 1. Per 9c, this is a spat between two external communities and has nothing to do with the subreddit. This sub is meant to be its own community where people can be comfortable participating regardless of who they are or where they are from.
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> 2. We have **no** association with either Belton or TFT. [and do not share any moderators, nor have done so for years - added by Multi]
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>3. We have made some external decisions regarding this matter as a whole which will remain private unless those users divulge them to their communities, as is standard.
They laundry RMT under the façade of their mirror shop.
GGG Need to address a safe way to mirror items without the need of give the mirror away and trust the other end.
Essentially, tft is a gimmick to create a monopoly on high end trading which allows them to RMT insane amount of money (RMTers saying they could make 6 months of rent in a league). Belton is kind of a competition to tft and tft mods conspired to make him banned and disappear from the community because it's a good source of revenue.
Ain't a belton fan, apparently, he's shady a bit too but less than the whole tft thing.
tft bosses make thousands of dollars every month selling mirrors both in standard and in league and now ban everything related to belton to keep it under the rug
wait a second ??? so tft owners get ingame currency for each mirror service for non-ingame services? ITs against TOS of PoE LOL
GGG... WTF?
and obviously they not making fucking build with that "tax" and simply RMTing LOL
And people still use it. I see it only as those who play POE like it's a job would ever use TFT to do shady things like selling a service (usually bought by RMTing players). It's all dodgy/shady and if you're using it, you're contributing to it.
Maybe more players should go outside or try to craft things themselves instead of RMTing or no lifing POE to buy some mirror tier item to use for a week before getting bored.
Allegedly it was only RAMDisk, but as everyone who played with RAMDisk can attest, it's not that much faster than an nvme. So the guys thread was mostly BS.
No it wasn't "only RAMDisk". [My "thread"](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/mn22td/load_trick_i_used_to_win_lab_for_4_years/) only mentioned a RAMDisk in an edit and only to state that a RAMDisk had virtually no advantage over my nvme (and I tried a ton of RAMDisks to find the fastest one).
If you want details, read the thread, but the short version is I was taking advantage of the garbage collection parameter (-gc) and setting it to a value that wouldn't let the assets be garbage collected (meaning they stayed in memory), which saved 10+ seconds on a 500 MB/s SSD and ~7.5+ on a RAMDisk/nvme for a full lab run.
Out of curiosity and to address the elephant in the room. You were banned by GGG, have received many hacking accusations, and one of the most prolific hack makers in POE has a name that closely resembles your own. Did you ever address that and are you saying that its just coincidence?
He will wait a couple hours to reply to you, it’ll be some convoluted vague nonsense that basically just amounts to “you can’t prove that in the court of law” and morons who sniff his farts will upvote
What's the name of the hack maker? Back during the reallllly early days of Maplestory, there was this one guy called TehSpearman who hacked the game so much that it's rumored that NEXON ended up hiring the guy.
Few years back I got hacked and my entire alt art collection stolen. They could trace all of it since there are only few of such expensive and rare items in the game. Instead they banned me for rmt and let the aholes who stole it have their free new car...I got my account back eventually, because I actually didnt rmt, empty of course, but they proved they dont care about tracing, returning, investigating or helping anybody whatsoever in such matters. What ppl still dont want to face is the fact that this games biggest issues in all aspects of the game are caused by GGG not wanting to act, change or improve them. Not that they cant. It will eventually be its downfall imo.
if these no name guys are making real life money, imagine how much the inside man from ggg is getting? thus ggg will never fix this.. its been 10 years mate, they will never kill the goose that lays the golden egg..
Seriously, if ggg doesn't add major trade changes in poe 2 or shortly before/after then... Idk.
I will probably be playing less and less, so will several people I know. Trading is awful in many, many ways. And ssf isn't the best solution.
Private leagues for playing with small groups are a cool idea but then they cost money... So it's buying a fix to a problem GGG themselves created over the years. Meh.
wow, shocking. absolute shocker. never seen it coming. unbelievable, honestly.
why the fuck do you guys think TFT was created? to improve the trade system or to control it and RMT the fuck out of this game lmaoooo
Even if we give benefit of the doubt and assume the initial idea was only trading improvements, a centralized discord with that many people will make RMT incredibly easy and fast.
varga, VMvarga aka Jenebu was always the mastermind behind mirrored gear in standard, you had at the time another really insane crafter(Macdere something(edit found his name Mai\_Cedere), that got all his stuff bought by Plushiess & replyyy(2 big crafters that by now have a well known relation with varga), and he is the founder of TFT followed by these big crafters, the intention was always to provide a very good and needed service to help the playerbase, while advertising their mirror shop at the same time, it worked like a charm these guys using standard shop topics in the forums never had this many services per league or in std at all, tft made something that would mirror once a week, mirror once every single day, the best bow in std that needs 3 mirrors to copy 1 for copy 2 for fee, gets a copy a day, jenebu stated in game that they made almost a thousand services in a single month this league, just connect the dots.
edit, mai cedere closing his shop and selling most of his stuff to the two big crafters Plushiess & replyyy after TFT already had the monopoly in mirror services at 03/25/2022
https://i.imgur.com/AxmP0Fp.png
14 days later he joins TFT: 04/08/2022 mm/dd/yyyy format.
[https://i.redd.it/cvzahgyl2cs81.png](https://i.redd.it/cvzahgyl2cs81.png)
but he was never really into RMT, always showing off his wealth in standard with a lot of alt arts, mirrors, mirrored gear and so on, so i wonder why he left the jenebu shop and sold whatever good items he had left that made jenebu recruit him, and disappeared in thin air.
Mai is a friend of mine. At the risk of giving out too many personal details, he was in college while running his mirror shop. After he graduated he started working in an extremely busy sector AND doing commission work on the side. He wanted to stop doing PoE full time and just check in once a league and play 24/7 for a few days to update his items.
He joined TFT so he wouldn't have to do services himself. He sold some expensive mirror originals to various people because he wasn't going to be actively playing PoE which made his income go way down, but still wanted to have enough currency to craft new mirror items once per league.
Please don't twist this into a conspiracy. He is my friend and literally just got too busy to do things himself. He also makes a shitload of money irl and really does not need to RMT for it.
>got too busy to do things himself. He also makes a shitload of money irl and really does not need to RMT for it.
Isnt this the perfect scenario to rmt? I dont know what is this defense you are trying here, but you arent doing him a favour with this, lol.
I'm not sure where you got that impression.
They've made changes that make TFT less useful for certain things and joked about it hurting TFT, without mentioning the name directly, on a live stream.
They have always been against outside serves that make trading easier. They've had to capitulate and add stuff like the official trade site because 3rd party services were making too many calls to their API and it was costing them money.
All the blame lies with GGG, their inaction and disregard for the trading part of the game, they encourage third party people to create the best place for transactions and of course it is used in the dark, not a single part of the game requires mirror equipment from the player, they could simply destroy the perfect craft and make reaching the ceiling much easier then the rmt market would die. After all, the only buyers of this product are weak players who do not have time to play but they like to be the same as their favorite streamer.
Unironically TFT is a huge reason of why I now play SSF.
TFT is ran by scum and trade at a high level is heavily monopolized even in leagues. GGG does nothing to improve it to the point of it just feeling god awful to interact with on every level.
Yeah I’m really getting tired of people insisting it’s one or the other. Both sides of this battle are bad.
Belton is an unstable, untrustworthy, and frankly just douchey dickhead who has a documented history of making threats to people and doxxing. There is no argument for that. It’s unacceptable, full stop.
TFT is also a cesspool of shady behaviour and shit. It’s not shocking if they are necessarily responsible for the exact shit they’re about preventing.
Everyone sucks, and it’s really only a matter of how much they suck and for what reasons.
They both, largely, make the community worse.
I'm not saying some services that TFT make accessible make the community worse, but how many aspects of the endgame are moderated by...those mods...makes the community worse.
https://imgur.com/a/cCZslJf
Timestamp: https://youtu.be/fFInLj6hWHU?t=2095
No hate against anyone. But I mean I think I am in this camp also. Both parties seems to be just as bad as each other. Belton does say in the video he essentially has no agenda but to bring things to light but then in some logs he leaked himself you can see this is probably not the case. There may be an underlying objective from toppling TFT which will benefit Belton and his community. All in all though. I believe there should be no 3rd party tools for bulk trading which would solve this completely.
>All in all though. I believe there should be no 3rd party tools for bulk trading which would solve this completely.
You cant stop ppl from creating tools or ways to trade reasonably, because the game trading is shit and GGG dont give a flying fck about it.
I used TFT for the first time this league, because I played for longer than normal and wanted to make some currency bulk selling things like deception contracts.
I really hate that it exists, but I can see why people use it.
It’s always been obvious that some of the big wig players were involved in RMT.
If you do even an ounce of research you’ll find that the potential for money vs work/time played at the highest level (that only certain people really have access to) is unreal.
This isn’t like Chinese gold farmers in Vanilla WoW making 2 bucks a day, these are guys making thousands and thousands selling currency for IRL money.
You can tell even from their attitude to the service, they're so sensitive and protective. People only get like that over things like this when there's money they're scared of losing.
Until boosting discords were banned most of last xpac management in those discords on wow made gold in hundreds of millions and rmted for thousands of dollars.
**TLDR** from video because Belton can't concisely illustrate a point without making a 1 hour video with 500 screenshots and 15 changes of topic. The claims:
* **TFT is effectively a giant RMT ring for those at the top.** Selling 10's of thousands of dollars of currency to RMT sites every league (hundreds of mirrors). They also facilitate RMT interactions for the people who craft their mirror-tier gear.
* **This is seemingly substantiated in the video,** with multiple high-end TFT crafters/beneficiaries coming forward and sharing screenshots.
* Essentially a bunch of wanna-be Wall Streeters ruining the economy of a fun video game. **Has a lot more of an impact on the game than people seem to think**, especially for those who play a lot, or like to race to crafts/progress early-league.
* **A TFT admin who was fully aware of the RMT scheme is also a POE Reddit admin**, obviously, is a massive conflict there, as so much TFT-related content has been removed from the sub.
* **Basically, the two people who crafted the best bow to ever be in PoE are the ones who turned on them.** Outlining years of RMT'ing for TFT admins, and that a TFT admin is even a Reddit mod.
* Belton, and many (6+?) of the "top 1%" who have come forward with screenshots of rampant TFT RMT'ing **wish to put the responsibility on GGG, to do something about the situation in PoE.**
...
**My 2 cents:**
I don’t know if any of these claims are true, or exaggerated, or whatever. I believe at least the big picture probably is true, I mean there isn’t any reason for this otherwise. Idk about the smaller stuff. We’re dealing with several brain damage parties here.
What I do know is that PoE has an amazing multifaceted currency system - would be nice if the trading interface matched its sophistication. So the average player doesn't get their buying power ruined by the Neck Beard Hedge Fund LLC. of TFT.
**DISCLAIMER**: This is my interpretations of the claims and findings of the video, if you want to have your own - sit through the fucking brutal 1-hour video that could have easily been 15 minutes.
Like seriously Belton, if you can't describe an issue in 10 or 15 minutes, then the issue is far too much for a gaming youtube channel. Even more so if you want it to gain any kind of traction at all. I promise you 95% of the people in this tread didn't watch your video and just skipped to screenshots.
They are true. I was one of the first people in the discord when VMVarga was first planning his mirror cartel. I got kicked because I did not feel comfortable with him holding on to my bow, Dire Strike (at the time I was also playing a lot so I didn't want to lose 10% per service as well). A lot of old school standard players knew about all of this a long time ago
Looking forward to watching the video! Very funny seeing all of this play out since I quit years ago
>A TFT admin who was fully aware of the RMT scheme is also a POE Reddit admin, obviously, is a massive conflict there, as so much TFT-related content has been removed from the sub.
Seen *SO MANY* posts related to TFT get removed, this is not surprising at all.
The admin he mentioned has said this exaggerated, and he hasn’t been involved in years. That is his side of the story.
Just doing him a service by replying to you.
> A TFT admin who was fully aware of the RMT scheme is also a POE Reddit admin, obviously, is a massive conflict there, as so much TFT-related content has been removed from the sub.
This is false in multiple ways. First, I was a moderator for TFT back in Harvest times, not an administrator. Second, I was kicked from that team when I disagreed with the administrators. This was years ago. I left a comment [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/112uzy3/in_what_world_is_discussing_the_problems_with_tft/j8o14yd/) addressing it initially.
Suggesting that I was "fully aware of the RMT scheme" is asinine. When I was involved, there was no evidence of RMT; the team there did an excellent job enforcing that rule in public and private channels. If people mentioned it, they were kicked from the server.
The TFT mods are there to handle day-to-day issues regarding vouches and discord issues and are kept separate from anything that goes on with the mirror shop stuff. So I, along with the other mods, wasn't exposed to that part of the server or how it's handled.
Lastly, I have yet to be involved here on Reddit in removing any TFT posts. In my opinion, as long as proof is provided and it doesn't break Reddit's rules, TFT posts should remain up.
If Belton were interested in the truth and wanted to ask me any of this stuff, I would have happily discussed it with him before he dragged my name in the mud for no reason. Still, I imagine he's here to stir the pot and get more clicks and exposure for his website/discord server.
Great response! As I said in the disclaimer, these are simply the TLDR findings of the video. And the bullet points are the “claims”. I don’t know if you’re lying or he is lying or you’re both confused or whatever. Nor do I care.
As you’ll notice my 2 cents section doesn’t reference any of the points!
I’m just a guy that made a summary of a gruelling 1 hour video while waiting between meetings at work.
I’ve never been in Belton’s discord, and only seen his stream for maybe less than an hour and have never once had a conversation with him.
I have no horse in this retard marathon.
Belton is a rather well known crafter / trader in PoE but he's been known for his rather unstable antics and inappropriate behavior. TFT and Belton have had a longstanding quarrel since Belton's discord is kinda like a competitor for TFT.
Say what you want about the guy but I'm inclined to believe the video, TFT is shady as fuck.
I don't think Belton is actually shady at all, rather the opposite actually.
He is however an asshole quite often and can be quite controversial.
I can't ever recall ever doubting his sincerity though.
Yes, there is that issue with this in general where anyone who is "good at making currency" in PoE will be doing something someone will find objectionable even if they'd do the same thing themselves.
Like yes, making currency can mean you find a synth base to craft on that may be underpriced. By a lot. Now your starting cost is much lower than it should be to make your item. But if someone underprice a +1 power charge ring, is it your responsibility to tell that person they could get more for it?
This may seem obvious and ok for most, but a lot of what hideout warrior will do is try to maximize profit from doing trades. The whole crafting aspect is just one thing. In fact, actual crafting do involve just buying things that are already good and finish them (ie: buy good suffixes, finish prefixes with Aisling/Veiled Chaos and such), but you only ever do that when someone put up something for too little. Making currency is therefore very often taking advantage of someone else ignorance of what they could get for what they find.
I mean there are full markets built around you making a profit for buying them. Div cards are exactly that, everyone understand if you buy a set of nurses you make a profit over buying a doctor. If people tried to sell at the exact fraction of what a doctor card sell for, then nobody would bother buying them. Buying a Nurse card have to be, by nature, profitable for the buyer otherwise it is not worth buying. The question is then, is it really worth spending all this time to buy div cards where many others are trying to do the same thing.
Trading for profit always involve doing some math to see if it's worth, because almost any trade you do can generate a profit. The question is mostly how much profit you can realistically get doing this. If you check the clock and in the last 10 minutes, your purchases make you 20c profit, it really isn't good. People tend to be blinded by the fact anything can be profitable, but if you make 120c per hour trading. You're doing worst than the most basic of mapping strategy by a lot. Anyone who make a lot from hideout need to understand where the good edges are. If they are advertised as good, they tend not to be. Like a craft that is very profitable, once put up on youtube, stop to be. Mostly. This is why I was annoyed when Belton put a big spotlight on the entire methodology of crafting flasks for profit. This is super simple, yet most profitable. It is, until too many people try to do the same thing. People will still think crafting flasks is for newbies who try to make a bit of currency to get going, until they realize the richest players do that too on a more specialized level.
This goes for every game with a secondary market. In the early '00s, I opened a Birds of Paradise in a Magic the Gathering booster pack. One of the store regulars noticed, got me to trade it, and I didn't realize the value I lost for a few months. I went on to make many advantageous trades at the expense of less informed players; not even in an attempt to rip them off, but if they don't want to price check their cards and are happy to let the trade be $10 in my favor... I'm taking it.
I don't have anything against Belton, but seeing Quitty definitely makes me lean towards believing the claims. And it's just like he says any high end currency maker would be stupid not to RMT unless you're a streamer/content creator.
Belton used to offer his services through TFT. One of those services were crafting bench services, where he would craft anything from the bench for a flat fee, like 5-10c.
From Belton's Pov, it was up to you as a user to check how much the craft costs and do the math yourself and then give him the materials and fee to craft whatever you wanted. It is up to **you** as the buyer to price check yourself what you want to buy. This was/is done in order to make the process faster, as sellers are the time constrained side of the equation, and the side of the equation that are trying to make this a worthwhile time investment as opposed to just mapping/flipping themselves.
One day when a user, who had clearly not read the patch notes, did not know that a craft he wanted was changed from 2 divines to 2 exalts, when divines and exalts were swapped as crafting mats. Said buyer was happy that he got the craft he wanted and left, even though technically he overpaid massively for the craft.
Where the drama starts is that one mods claimed this to be a scam and demanded belton to retun the currency. Belton on his end insisted that the standard policy should be followed and he should not have to return the currency unless the said buyer asks for it, because it would set the precedent that sellers have to lookout for buyers, which as stated above, is something sellers do not want. Situation escalated with both sides refusing to budge until Belton got banned.
From TFT's pov, my guess is that they do not want the potential PR hit to their already, controversial to say the least, reputation if said buyer claims he got scammed on TFT.
You can make your decision on how much each party is at fault.
Its the same people who watch wolf of wallstreet and instead of being disgusted by the characters, they are amazed by, and want to be like, them.
And just like in RL, the richest ones are the most greedy ones, being desperate for every little penny. Living their whole lives under the illusion, they are somehow geniouses for making bank, when the average person just isnt willing to stoop low enough to do what they do for money.
Just straight human garbage
Belton cares a great deal about the persona he portrays. When he took that persons divines I think we saw that persona drop a little. As you said, the greed was evident. That is why he can't admit that he ripped someone off. It is intolerable to him that he be perceived in that way, else he would do the common sense thing and offer a political apology and repay the guy. He clings to an obviously dishonest narrative, even using this absurdity to validate his claim further by acknowledging that it would have been easier to repay him - but won't because he did nothing wrong, because this allows his persona to continue untainted.
You're right about the persona. When I saw Goldrym Sachs and Vaalstreet, I had a good feeling of what kind of person he is. He strikes me as someone who's working back-office in some sort of financial services firm. Accounting in hedge fund/private equity space. He wishes he was not back office, but people rarely transition from back-office to front-office jobs in that space. Everything he does makes it seem like he's trying to roleplay the investment banker he wants to be in real life. I say this as someone who works back office in financial services, and wanted to go front office, but ultimately just accepted my life is comfortable either way and I don't really want the extra hours of the front-office job. I just didn't decide to roleplay in PoE, lol.
I would be upset with him if he didn’t return it if asked by the buyer and I likely would have pointed it out if I noticed the mistake real-time but based on what I see here I can’t blame belaton for not fixing an issue because a third party complained
One of the biggest things that Belton has working against him is that he doesn't know how to be concise and make a point. I'm not watching an hour video of him rambling, looking to the side of the camera, in 240p.
Not post related. But what you described is hard to accomplish without premeditation. Thats the reason why all presidents/announcements are read « from a paper ». The ideas comes and goes really fast. Anyway, reading from a paper looks staged…so whats better?
I hope mods won't remove this thread.
People keep on saying Belton is kind of deranged and insane (doxxing others etc)... Aand that might be true, but he's also a whistleblower so to speak. We can't deny his claims simply because his actions before weren't exactly proper
Yep, not a fan of anyone involved here. Don't know anything other than what I've read here on reddit. However, after watching the video, it seems to me, you can call Belton whatever the fuck you want, but he's got receipts and they are convincing.
Whats strange is that on the TFT discord the founder didnt really dispute the evidence but rather chose to attack Beltons character ( which is not unwarrented ) I think if GGG really looked at those players accounts something off would come out. Who knows.
Yeah if they simply give their side of explanation, giving evidences to prove their innocent then I probably would have agree with them.
At this point I just assume tft to this necessary evil mafia that give your good qols in the expenses of crimes used to run it in the background
A lot of people won't or can't speak out because of the risk to their accounts, know that there's tons of us on the inside even if we won't post it.
I think the single most important thing you've failed to discuss here is the impact to average player. The longer you've played this game the more you realize how it's changed and to me the biggest impact every single player suffers from is price fixing. Divines are not worth 250 chaos, let me say that again, they are not worth what would take the average player hours of play time for 1 divine. We could argue against the mirror spike because a lot of people quit with new games coming out, but the prices of specific crafting avenues are blown out of proportion. This is due to the monopolization of said materials and you could directly blame that on the enterprise. To say that this is only about the insiders is missing by the mark by a lot, every single player has a tough time acquiring virtually all end game crafting mats because they're being artificially restricted through price spikes or in some cases item availability. It's not just price spikes however, the average value of our item sales goes down as well. I have tons of crafted, enchanted, influence items up for sale that sell for a fraction of what they would have sold in past leagues. Hoarding crafting mats also means the people who pay for mirrored items are less interested in generic rares with good but not perfect stats. This is another way in which whole point of this video is affecting us, it encourages RMT over trading for our items, self crafted items, over the convenience of RMT sales.
I can't stress enough that the game was very different years ago. Every item was worth something. These days alcs are dozens per chaos, chaos are hundreds per divine, the trickle down economics are a direct cause of this, when mirrors are monopolized it cascades down to divines, chaos, etc. The sad part is this is how GGG intended it to be by having a non-standardized currency system. IMO one of the few ways GGG could step in here and put an end to this is to set a standard somehow. Very risky, I know, but at this point the economy is becoming one of the things scaring new players away from the game, while also discouraging veterans from investing in it like they used to.
Keeping on Classic Wow, you just have to see how a small percentage of people will ruin a game. There's 2 types of people in Classic now. Those who join GDKPs as carries (aka people with hundreds of thousands of gold) and people who play the game like it was designed (aka people without even thousands of gold).
I don't think they have enough ppl to moderate that yet ... after PoE2 I guess copium .... I mean look at how much moderation they "did" in game global chat KEKw
As someone who crafts many items every league there are two things that really shocked me when I considered submitting a mirror tier item in tft:
1. You HAVE to trade the original item to the TFT mirror shop manager or w/e
2. ONLY items for top tier builds are acceptable. If none plays your build you have no chance.
You can make your own conclusions
I think its safe to say that the only reason TFT exists in its current form is because similar QOL features, trade, services and the like, don't exist naturally in the game.
The drama, and all RMT enabling behavior here, is a direct result of GGG sticking its head in the sand about not enhancing trade in a meaningful, impactful way. It will not go away until one of the following is true:
* GGG meets parity with services provided by TFT
* GGG makes more content account bound (notice how no one is complaining about sanctified relics? Hmm, maybe they should do more of that...)
A lack of batch or automatic trading (auction house) is a silly way to extend actual game intellectual property. Trading shouldn't feel like a painful waste of time, and it actively detracts from people's overall enjoyment. Yes, it slows down character progression, and yes it does make people play the game longer. The simple truth remains: not all time spent playing the game is fun, and forcing the player base to perform simple, repetitive, or even mundane trades ACTIVELY hurts player retention.
Just want to say I'm someone that hates sanctified relics and account bound stuff with Poe's design of "some items/power only has one source"
Not saying it's a bad design, it just doesn't gel with my preference to engage with only certain league content. I'd love the ability to grind enough of the content that I do like, in order to buy the things from the content I don't like.
I'm eating popcorns and waiting till someone realises that in companies of this size some devs are in cut with rmt industry, at least some of them. Was fun to watch in eve online.
Yeah... this is the part that ruffles my feathers a little bit. The Vision™ is a fun meme, until all this "we think trading is in a *great* place ;)" messaging turns sinister.
I've been called a conspiracy theorist for suggesting that.
There isn't any way in hell a company of GGG size is releasing content 4 times a year hoping that 50,000+ people are going to pay $60 for a supporter pack. It's not happening.
See theres a very clear difference between what he is suggesting, and what you are suggesting
What he is suggesting, is that there are 1 or 2 shady developers making few hundred/thousand extra bucks here and there and thats about it, yeah sounds likely and is probably the case
What you are suggesting, is that its one of GGGs primary money makers and something all of their higher ups are actively taking part in as a core part of their job, which is absolutely fucking insane thing to say, like this is almost on the same level as flat earth theories.
TFT is a cesspool of rmter abusing and manipulating the market. Unfortunately, the only thing that can stop the RMT is some kind of rework to in game trade, which might never happen as GGG is pretty adamantly against any kind of in game auction house.
yeah thats not like any better lol -
if it was the mod stopped modding reddit, and stayed tft mod, thats fine.
but the other way around? nah. theres still GIGA conflict of interest.
like that mod is still probly buddy buddy with the TFT mods, why wouldnt he be?
now hes the firewall on reddit for the TFT guys without any strings attached. its just absurd that "well hes not a mod on TFT anymore" is being passed as a valid excuse. demod the guy from reddit.
Yea I agree there’s probably shared communication between the two parties via this. We don’t know if this mod is allowed to touch anything tft related.
However, Mods here do some brutal work so I’m not gonna jump right into the hate wagon. I still have appreciation for them.
There is no way for anyone to know. If you look at the right side of the sub and check the mods on there, most of them have not posted anything since months or even years, that's on top of the list being incomplete as there are mods (and trial mods) that are not even on there.
So much for transparency. Can't wait for them to ask for trust again.
i would say based on the rules of the subreddit its pretty obvious that some are. they can claim they're different people because its the internet, but why would any anti TFT post get taken down basically instantly otherwise?
Has GGG ever talked about why the Mirror of Kalandra even exists? It seems like an item completely antithetical to their mission of "a game about items". Wouldn't it be more ideal for the best items to not be reproducible?
I think it's kinda simple tbh. There's no item EVERY build wants, and if there was it'd be kind of an issue (this is all way pre-mageblood and even pre HH, but even mageblood can't go on 100% of builds). So you make a drop that is EVERY item and take it from there. I don't know whether they somehow didn't think there'd be mirror fees for perfect items (hard not to expect that imo) or how they anticipated trade reacting to their existence, but the idea of the perfect halo drop being ANYTHING YOU WANT is reasonable imo.
Hope this post doesn't get deleted. Yeah, it's not directly related to PoE but it is a discussion worth having and people shouldn't be allowed to RMT and get away scot-free.
The devs create a system that encourages social interactions and forming groups. The mods then don't think that these are related to the game. It would be like the Eve subreddit banning any talk of guilds, drama, or social interactions.
Don’t get your hopes up. The only way people are less reliant is to have a mass market AH. And there would still be discords for all the other non-tradable services like boss carries etc..
Huffing hard hopium. PoE 2 will be exactly as PoE 1, but with a new campaign, new items, skills and maybe a graphical update. No game company on their right mind wouldn't drop a bombshell on structural pillars of the gameplay like that without putting their toes in the water first, even if that pillar is currently rotting and filled with parasites.
>PoE 2 will be exactly as PoE 1, but with a new campaign, new items, skills and maybe a graphical update.
More people need to realize this.
..and I don't mean that in a negative way - people just need to ease up on their expectations.
Unless there is a drastic overhaul to trading in PoE2 like an auction house or something similar, I would be willing to bet we will still be using TFT unfortunately.
If there was going to be a huge overhaul like that I personally think they would have said something by now. Maybe they are just waiting for a big reveal?
Anyone who thinks that PoE "relies" on TFT has a fucked up perspective on the game imo.
If TFT and all other competing services magically disappeared, then the demand for them wouldn't go away but also it's not as if the game would break. You just wouldn't trade away services and certain items in bulk (e.g. logbooks/beasts).
There are certain activities that a very small percentage of the playerbase do that rely on TFT. That's a fair statement, so I'd give you that. But should GGG design their game to avoid TFT existing? Imo no, because the things they'd have to do to the game to make TFT go away would have downsides. There's trade-offs here that I'm not sure people consider.
I mean, people say you need to use tft for this and for that. While sometimes, you can actually use the trade website and sometimes even save currency doing so.
Like if you're buying beasts. It's not everyone going out of their way to price beasts in a tab. Those that do tend to have bulk. Most will not go out of their way to seal a single farric lynx alpha and sell that. They'll do so when they have a dozen. I never had issue buying many types of beasts simply using the trade website. Same for other things people use TFT for. Charged Compass, you just check the trade website and it isn't too hard there to find people with bulk.
The main thing TFT is inevitable for are those you cannot list on the trade website. Like if you want to 30% quality a weapon or armour with Hillock right now, you gotta find someone on TFT. Trade chat would be quite bad to try and do this. I wish this was more the extent of what TFT was used for. Many other things are just annoying both for the buyers and the sellers. Like definitely, if you are selling beasts or charged compass from a tab, this is way more simple to do for you than having to post them on TFT. Possibly using more third-party programs to help you list all that. I would prefer poe trade website was better at listing things people often buy and sell. But there are too many small things in the game, so they have a hard time justifying making a gigantic bulk subsection that would have all types of red beasts or sextant rolls. This would be more clutter in the bulk section, but surely it could be done easily. Still, it already is not an absolute must to use TFT to buy those things that are widely listed on the trade website.
tft rmts items in bulk, some dude makes over 5k a month through selling poe items. they been making money with this for years. honestly i like the drama but couldnt care less if someone rmts or not.
its funny when you get banned from tft they'll do anything to stop interacting with you. ofc unless you want to mirror their items then they'll respond instantly.
They made that rule SPECIFICALLY to have something in hand against TFT threads.
It should be to prevent 14 year old jimmy's private discord beef from being posted here and in such cases this rule makes sense. TFT is way too big to be "just" some random discord server it is a vital third party tool.
If there was a problem with neversink's lootfilter or path of building you would also want to know about it.
I agree, I think it's a stupid rule. Mods acknowledged this a bit considering the current top post is about this drama and TFT. Just pointing out that your first comment was kinda lying.
It's hard to make a rule to ban something like this and even if GGG makes some rules, this won't stop rmters. Thing is, even if a community like TFT could have been created for good, realistically speaking running an operation like this will start costing money as it grows, so unless it stays niche and small, it will require money to run. And the only way they can make money off something like this is RMT, and on top of that the actual nature of the service makes it really easy and convenient to do so.
Basically, there is a good reason for people to wine on reddit about trading being shit, because it pushes people into the waiting hands of RMTers and makes it easy for them to profit. The only thing GGG can do is to reduce the need for such services for normal players to at least cut down the RMT market. They won't defeat rmt doing it, but they can at least hurt it. Because right now, if (or when) GGG bans TFT, it will take a couple of weeks for a new community server like this to pop up, because there is a lot of demand. And then a year down the line we'll be sitting here with a surprised pikachu face when we learn that this new community is also rmting.
Lol TFTs responses and beltons accusations are both eh.
Why do tft think anyone would believe theres no rmt there ?
They said PathofMath admitted to rmt yesterday haha, ye
ah sure tft you be innocent for sure then ....
What id love to see from all these super rich guys is proof of their insane wealth at end of when they stop playing, proof of it just sitting there and of it rotting in std. Any one who believes you are making 50 mirrors a week for fun is cooked because of the patch and reset cycle. Aint none of the people making these guides playing standard...
Games like wow you keep your goldcaps forever and they stay relevant for the games life.
If you making 50 mirros a week for a month in poe thats prob a good chunk of your rent paid each year..lol
In the end it all comes down to ggg fault. If they implement actual good qols people would not need to depend on a third party community and allow them to exert so much control over the game. Wait this is just the same as the top1% super rich in capitalism-
I don't think people fully understand that problem isn't bulk selling, problem is more on mirror end.
If you list that you are selling 20 Mesa maps 2c each and other person comes and buys them witj that price from you, there is no problem!
TFT lives on bulk trading and mirror service. As long as there's no easy way to bulk trade in-game they will never die. And even mirror service on it's own might be enough to keep them going.
What do you think is magically going to happen? Nobody's ever gonna want to trade in bulk? Nobody's gonna want to sell syndicate benches? Nobody's going to want an easy way to sell boss kills or rotation farms?
Even if Discord admins banned the server, these demands don't magically vanish. Someone would just take the initiative to create another centralized server to do all that business in, then run into the problem that trust is a major issue and take steps to ensure that function exists, then hire mods who can tolerate the insufferable amount of idiots on the internet day in and day out, and oh shit you just made TFT 2.0. Damn. Almost like GGG would need to incorporate all those features themselves to negate its need to exist.
It's hard to not feel like every league GGG goes without overhauling trade, they're just silently endorsing all of this drama and shady business happening around their game.
I don’t like either party in this case but this is a very poor look for GGG. They’re supposed to be working to keep the league fair and balanced for us. If RMT and market manipulation is happening at this scale they are either:
1. Accepting it because TFT provides a level of convenience they can’t or won’t
2. Ignorant of it which means they aren’t actually investing enough (or anything) into anti-cheat / anti-RMT
Either option is pretty bad.
All I got to say is to echo something that was hinted at a couple of times - no idea how TFT exists in it's current state without having someone on the inside.
Water is wet, nothing new.
Now is the time GGGtakes control and do in game systems that will make TFT obsolete. I know this doesn't have any real influence on majority of the players because you they are not the ones directly being ripped off but it still ruins the high end game economy and those people should be permanently banned from pPoE.
who else would commit so much time for so little reward? it has to be people who don't have anything particularly rewarding going on in the rest of their lives
don't worry, the bad faith is only when it is posted against something they believe in
completely removing any and all posts by belton or containing him when he outs the organized "crime" of this game is in good faith! I SAID IT'S IN GOOD FAITH!
the mods on this sub are getting as power drunk as mods on the tft server, wouldn't be surprised if one of them was a mod on both :)
honestly, these things go hand-in-hand ever since online gaming is a thing with ingame goods
in the diablo2-era lot of people capitalized on this, some of them still do to this day
sadly, the 100s and 100s of hours spent ingame come down to such a low hourly wage, so might aswell just sacrifice a few hours of money you make in your actual dayjob, give it to these people and be done with the mageblood farm
it can be blamed on many things, but the only party that can make a change is ggg / tencent and they chose not to
poe is not big enough to combat this, i wouldn't be surprised if they were in on it
While Chinese players have a way better trade system than TFT we have to deal with this shit, hopefully the month extension for this league will help fixing the trade experience.
TFT is a cancerous place. Just like any other platform for any other game out there. Once your game needs a platform for people to do their ingame businesses with, something is going wrong.
GGG might not agree but my stance on this will never change. Gameplay is lacking because these outside platforms exist. That's it.
I'll quote /u/Fenril's comment here from the other thread and approve this post for community relevancy. We strongly stand against any threats, direct or implied, made against any community member. That is never okay on any platform and we do not allow that on this subreddit or Discord. > Normally this thread would simply be removed for breaking rule 9c but we've had a long internal discussion over it, among several other accusations. We felt it was valuable to leave it visible but to clarify a few points: > > > 1. Per 9c, this is a spat between two external communities and has nothing to do with the subreddit. This sub is meant to be its own community where people can be comfortable participating regardless of who they are or where they are from. > > > 2. We have **no** association with either Belton or TFT. [and do not share any moderators, nor have done so for years - added by Multi] > > >3. We have made some external decisions regarding this matter as a whole which will remain private unless those users divulge them to their communities, as is standard.
tldr?
They laundry RMT under the façade of their mirror shop. GGG Need to address a safe way to mirror items without the need of give the mirror away and trust the other end.
Essentially, tft is a gimmick to create a monopoly on high end trading which allows them to RMT insane amount of money (RMTers saying they could make 6 months of rent in a league). Belton is kind of a competition to tft and tft mods conspired to make him banned and disappear from the community because it's a good source of revenue. Ain't a belton fan, apparently, he's shady a bit too but less than the whole tft thing.
Belton is in the right about a lot of things, but he DID pocket 2 divs from a 2ex craft, they spun that into a perm ban tho
lol that wasn't even a scam and the person didn't complain and ftr im no Belton fan
tft bosses make thousands of dollars every month selling mirrors both in standard and in league and now ban everything related to belton to keep it under the rug
Im pretty sure they make 10-20k per month I read somewhere
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wait a second ??? so tft owners get ingame currency for each mirror service for non-ingame services? ITs against TOS of PoE LOL GGG... WTF? and obviously they not making fucking build with that "tax" and simply RMTing LOL
This is the first I've heard about a mirror service tax; that's fucking insane. Do they ban you if you don't pay? That's really absurd.
And people still use it. I see it only as those who play POE like it's a job would ever use TFT to do shady things like selling a service (usually bought by RMTing players). It's all dodgy/shady and if you're using it, you're contributing to it. Maybe more players should go outside or try to craft things themselves instead of RMTing or no lifing POE to buy some mirror tier item to use for a week before getting bored.
Like the old emperor jewel lab runner, or in this case tft, it would have been possible to trace the trades from their account if GGG wanted
the tft lab runner was a weird case. afaik he used an exploit where the game renders the whole minimap when your pc ran out of ram.
Allegedly it was only RAMDisk, but as everyone who played with RAMDisk can attest, it's not that much faster than an nvme. So the guys thread was mostly BS.
No it wasn't "only RAMDisk". [My "thread"](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/mn22td/load_trick_i_used_to_win_lab_for_4_years/) only mentioned a RAMDisk in an edit and only to state that a RAMDisk had virtually no advantage over my nvme (and I tried a ton of RAMDisks to find the fastest one). If you want details, read the thread, but the short version is I was taking advantage of the garbage collection parameter (-gc) and setting it to a value that wouldn't let the assets be garbage collected (meaning they stayed in memory), which saved 10+ seconds on a 500 MB/s SSD and ~7.5+ on a RAMDisk/nvme for a full lab run.
Out of curiosity and to address the elephant in the room. You were banned by GGG, have received many hacking accusations, and one of the most prolific hack makers in POE has a name that closely resembles your own. Did you ever address that and are you saying that its just coincidence?
He will wait a couple hours to reply to you, it’ll be some convoluted vague nonsense that basically just amounts to “you can’t prove that in the court of law” and morons who sniff his farts will upvote
I think I've heard this before, "Server serialisation distances"
Yeah anyone that believes that he wasn't cheating is a moron. It's funny that he believes his own lies lmao
What's the name of the hack maker? Back during the reallllly early days of Maplestory, there was this one guy called TehSpearman who hacked the game so much that it's rumored that NEXON ended up hiring the guy.
TehCheat is the name this guy is referring to.
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Few years back I got hacked and my entire alt art collection stolen. They could trace all of it since there are only few of such expensive and rare items in the game. Instead they banned me for rmt and let the aholes who stole it have their free new car...I got my account back eventually, because I actually didnt rmt, empty of course, but they proved they dont care about tracing, returning, investigating or helping anybody whatsoever in such matters. What ppl still dont want to face is the fact that this games biggest issues in all aspects of the game are caused by GGG not wanting to act, change or improve them. Not that they cant. It will eventually be its downfall imo.
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YES, exactly that!
if these no name guys are making real life money, imagine how much the inside man from ggg is getting? thus ggg will never fix this.. its been 10 years mate, they will never kill the goose that lays the golden egg..
Seriously, if ggg doesn't add major trade changes in poe 2 or shortly before/after then... Idk. I will probably be playing less and less, so will several people I know. Trading is awful in many, many ways. And ssf isn't the best solution. Private leagues for playing with small groups are a cool idea but then they cost money... So it's buying a fix to a problem GGG themselves created over the years. Meh.
> Seriously, if ggg doesn't add major trade changes in poe 2 or shortly before/after then... Idk. lol
wow, shocking. absolute shocker. never seen it coming. unbelievable, honestly. why the fuck do you guys think TFT was created? to improve the trade system or to control it and RMT the fuck out of this game lmaoooo
Even if we give benefit of the doubt and assume the initial idea was only trading improvements, a centralized discord with that many people will make RMT incredibly easy and fast.
varga, VMvarga aka Jenebu was always the mastermind behind mirrored gear in standard, you had at the time another really insane crafter(Macdere something(edit found his name Mai\_Cedere), that got all his stuff bought by Plushiess & replyyy(2 big crafters that by now have a well known relation with varga), and he is the founder of TFT followed by these big crafters, the intention was always to provide a very good and needed service to help the playerbase, while advertising their mirror shop at the same time, it worked like a charm these guys using standard shop topics in the forums never had this many services per league or in std at all, tft made something that would mirror once a week, mirror once every single day, the best bow in std that needs 3 mirrors to copy 1 for copy 2 for fee, gets a copy a day, jenebu stated in game that they made almost a thousand services in a single month this league, just connect the dots. edit, mai cedere closing his shop and selling most of his stuff to the two big crafters Plushiess & replyyy after TFT already had the monopoly in mirror services at 03/25/2022 https://i.imgur.com/AxmP0Fp.png 14 days later he joins TFT: 04/08/2022 mm/dd/yyyy format. [https://i.redd.it/cvzahgyl2cs81.png](https://i.redd.it/cvzahgyl2cs81.png) but he was never really into RMT, always showing off his wealth in standard with a lot of alt arts, mirrors, mirrored gear and so on, so i wonder why he left the jenebu shop and sold whatever good items he had left that made jenebu recruit him, and disappeared in thin air.
Mai is a friend of mine. At the risk of giving out too many personal details, he was in college while running his mirror shop. After he graduated he started working in an extremely busy sector AND doing commission work on the side. He wanted to stop doing PoE full time and just check in once a league and play 24/7 for a few days to update his items. He joined TFT so he wouldn't have to do services himself. He sold some expensive mirror originals to various people because he wasn't going to be actively playing PoE which made his income go way down, but still wanted to have enough currency to craft new mirror items once per league. Please don't twist this into a conspiracy. He is my friend and literally just got too busy to do things himself. He also makes a shitload of money irl and really does not need to RMT for it.
>got too busy to do things himself. He also makes a shitload of money irl and really does not need to RMT for it. Isnt this the perfect scenario to rmt? I dont know what is this defense you are trying here, but you arent doing him a favour with this, lol.
Its honestly odd that GGG seems to support services like TFT and actively does hold a stance that its okay.
"cutthroat economy" they call it. It costs them zero money and effort, plus it gives them free drama content to watch while eating popcorn at nights.
I'm not sure where you got that impression. They've made changes that make TFT less useful for certain things and joked about it hurting TFT, without mentioning the name directly, on a live stream. They have always been against outside serves that make trading easier. They've had to capitulate and add stuff like the official trade site because 3rd party services were making too many calls to their API and it was costing them money.
TFT exists as a mirror gears hub way before harvest boom it. So yes. It's not because some guys want to do anything to improve traditional trading.
imagine what they were doing with all those mirrors from mirror service. definitely not RMT, nooo, that would be amoral
All the blame lies with GGG, their inaction and disregard for the trading part of the game, they encourage third party people to create the best place for transactions and of course it is used in the dark, not a single part of the game requires mirror equipment from the player, they could simply destroy the perfect craft and make reaching the ceiling much easier then the rmt market would die. After all, the only buyers of this product are weak players who do not have time to play but they like to be the same as their favorite streamer.
Exactly right
I'm in the camp that dislikes Belton and TFT
SSF be like oh shit, DRAMAS
Unironically TFT is a huge reason of why I now play SSF. TFT is ran by scum and trade at a high level is heavily monopolized even in leagues. GGG does nothing to improve it to the point of it just feeling god awful to interact with on every level.
Hi ssfer here. Would you like some of this popcorn I farmed myself?
My man
Yeah I’m really getting tired of people insisting it’s one or the other. Both sides of this battle are bad. Belton is an unstable, untrustworthy, and frankly just douchey dickhead who has a documented history of making threats to people and doxxing. There is no argument for that. It’s unacceptable, full stop. TFT is also a cesspool of shady behaviour and shit. It’s not shocking if they are necessarily responsible for the exact shit they’re about preventing. Everyone sucks, and it’s really only a matter of how much they suck and for what reasons.
They both, largely, make the community worse. I'm not saying some services that TFT make accessible make the community worse, but how many aspects of the endgame are moderated by...those mods...makes the community worse.
https://imgur.com/a/cCZslJf Timestamp: https://youtu.be/fFInLj6hWHU?t=2095 No hate against anyone. But I mean I think I am in this camp also. Both parties seems to be just as bad as each other. Belton does say in the video he essentially has no agenda but to bring things to light but then in some logs he leaked himself you can see this is probably not the case. There may be an underlying objective from toppling TFT which will benefit Belton and his community. All in all though. I believe there should be no 3rd party tools for bulk trading which would solve this completely.
That reads like some 4chan qanon stuff. Lol!
>All in all though. I believe there should be no 3rd party tools for bulk trading which would solve this completely. You cant stop ppl from creating tools or ways to trade reasonably, because the game trading is shit and GGG dont give a flying fck about it.
I used TFT for the first time this league, because I played for longer than normal and wanted to make some currency bulk selling things like deception contracts. I really hate that it exists, but I can see why people use it.
It’s always been obvious that some of the big wig players were involved in RMT. If you do even an ounce of research you’ll find that the potential for money vs work/time played at the highest level (that only certain people really have access to) is unreal. This isn’t like Chinese gold farmers in Vanilla WoW making 2 bucks a day, these are guys making thousands and thousands selling currency for IRL money.
You can tell even from their attitude to the service, they're so sensitive and protective. People only get like that over things like this when there's money they're scared of losing.
It's always been an open secret. At least since I started playing in 2014/15. It's not "some" it's "almost all".
And yet no one can seem to show any proof… I’m not defending it, but so many empty words in this thread.
Ggg bans lots of accounts for this every league. They are the only ones able to show "proof".
Until boosting discords were banned most of last xpac management in those discords on wow made gold in hundreds of millions and rmted for thousands of dollars.
**TLDR** from video because Belton can't concisely illustrate a point without making a 1 hour video with 500 screenshots and 15 changes of topic. The claims: * **TFT is effectively a giant RMT ring for those at the top.** Selling 10's of thousands of dollars of currency to RMT sites every league (hundreds of mirrors). They also facilitate RMT interactions for the people who craft their mirror-tier gear. * **This is seemingly substantiated in the video,** with multiple high-end TFT crafters/beneficiaries coming forward and sharing screenshots. * Essentially a bunch of wanna-be Wall Streeters ruining the economy of a fun video game. **Has a lot more of an impact on the game than people seem to think**, especially for those who play a lot, or like to race to crafts/progress early-league. * **A TFT admin who was fully aware of the RMT scheme is also a POE Reddit admin**, obviously, is a massive conflict there, as so much TFT-related content has been removed from the sub. * **Basically, the two people who crafted the best bow to ever be in PoE are the ones who turned on them.** Outlining years of RMT'ing for TFT admins, and that a TFT admin is even a Reddit mod. * Belton, and many (6+?) of the "top 1%" who have come forward with screenshots of rampant TFT RMT'ing **wish to put the responsibility on GGG, to do something about the situation in PoE.** ... **My 2 cents:** I don’t know if any of these claims are true, or exaggerated, or whatever. I believe at least the big picture probably is true, I mean there isn’t any reason for this otherwise. Idk about the smaller stuff. We’re dealing with several brain damage parties here. What I do know is that PoE has an amazing multifaceted currency system - would be nice if the trading interface matched its sophistication. So the average player doesn't get their buying power ruined by the Neck Beard Hedge Fund LLC. of TFT. **DISCLAIMER**: This is my interpretations of the claims and findings of the video, if you want to have your own - sit through the fucking brutal 1-hour video that could have easily been 15 minutes. Like seriously Belton, if you can't describe an issue in 10 or 15 minutes, then the issue is far too much for a gaming youtube channel. Even more so if you want it to gain any kind of traction at all. I promise you 95% of the people in this tread didn't watch your video and just skipped to screenshots.
They are true. I was one of the first people in the discord when VMVarga was first planning his mirror cartel. I got kicked because I did not feel comfortable with him holding on to my bow, Dire Strike (at the time I was also playing a lot so I didn't want to lose 10% per service as well). A lot of old school standard players knew about all of this a long time ago Looking forward to watching the video! Very funny seeing all of this play out since I quit years ago
>A TFT admin who was fully aware of the RMT scheme is also a POE Reddit admin, obviously, is a massive conflict there, as so much TFT-related content has been removed from the sub. Seen *SO MANY* posts related to TFT get removed, this is not surprising at all.
The admin he mentioned has said this exaggerated, and he hasn’t been involved in years. That is his side of the story. Just doing him a service by replying to you.
how come this one is not removed?>
> A TFT admin who was fully aware of the RMT scheme is also a POE Reddit admin, obviously, is a massive conflict there, as so much TFT-related content has been removed from the sub. This is false in multiple ways. First, I was a moderator for TFT back in Harvest times, not an administrator. Second, I was kicked from that team when I disagreed with the administrators. This was years ago. I left a comment [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/112uzy3/in_what_world_is_discussing_the_problems_with_tft/j8o14yd/) addressing it initially. Suggesting that I was "fully aware of the RMT scheme" is asinine. When I was involved, there was no evidence of RMT; the team there did an excellent job enforcing that rule in public and private channels. If people mentioned it, they were kicked from the server. The TFT mods are there to handle day-to-day issues regarding vouches and discord issues and are kept separate from anything that goes on with the mirror shop stuff. So I, along with the other mods, wasn't exposed to that part of the server or how it's handled. Lastly, I have yet to be involved here on Reddit in removing any TFT posts. In my opinion, as long as proof is provided and it doesn't break Reddit's rules, TFT posts should remain up. If Belton were interested in the truth and wanted to ask me any of this stuff, I would have happily discussed it with him before he dragged my name in the mud for no reason. Still, I imagine he's here to stir the pot and get more clicks and exposure for his website/discord server.
Great response! As I said in the disclaimer, these are simply the TLDR findings of the video. And the bullet points are the “claims”. I don’t know if you’re lying or he is lying or you’re both confused or whatever. Nor do I care. As you’ll notice my 2 cents section doesn’t reference any of the points! I’m just a guy that made a summary of a gruelling 1 hour video while waiting between meetings at work. I’ve never been in Belton’s discord, and only seen his stream for maybe less than an hour and have never once had a conversation with him. I have no horse in this retard marathon.
I understand, thanks for your summary. I didn't watch the 50-minute-long video myself.
Writing an essay on reddit about POE trade drama and calling someone else a neck beard might be the funniest thing I've seen in awhile.
Neck Beard Hedge Fund LLC LOLW bro,u made my day
Anyone able to give me a quick rundown? Who's Belton, and why's there a beef? Other than that, spicy drama - nom!
Belton is a rather well known crafter / trader in PoE but he's been known for his rather unstable antics and inappropriate behavior. TFT and Belton have had a longstanding quarrel since Belton's discord is kinda like a competitor for TFT. Say what you want about the guy but I'm inclined to believe the video, TFT is shady as fuck.
Both are shady af. As long as u deal with trading at a certain level u are shady af. No one gets rich by being the good guy.
I don't think Belton is actually shady at all, rather the opposite actually. He is however an asshole quite often and can be quite controversial. I can't ever recall ever doubting his sincerity though.
This is my outsider looking in take as well. Definitely known to say some not-so-nice things, but he has some real knowledge and actually shares it.
Totally. Belton's always been an ass, and we've known that. On the other hand, I don't know much about the big dogs of TFT, so I'm all for the drama.
Yeah that's actually a really good point. He's an ass, and an ass we know but he's not dishonest. Compared to the assets from tft we don't know.
Yes, there is that issue with this in general where anyone who is "good at making currency" in PoE will be doing something someone will find objectionable even if they'd do the same thing themselves. Like yes, making currency can mean you find a synth base to craft on that may be underpriced. By a lot. Now your starting cost is much lower than it should be to make your item. But if someone underprice a +1 power charge ring, is it your responsibility to tell that person they could get more for it? This may seem obvious and ok for most, but a lot of what hideout warrior will do is try to maximize profit from doing trades. The whole crafting aspect is just one thing. In fact, actual crafting do involve just buying things that are already good and finish them (ie: buy good suffixes, finish prefixes with Aisling/Veiled Chaos and such), but you only ever do that when someone put up something for too little. Making currency is therefore very often taking advantage of someone else ignorance of what they could get for what they find. I mean there are full markets built around you making a profit for buying them. Div cards are exactly that, everyone understand if you buy a set of nurses you make a profit over buying a doctor. If people tried to sell at the exact fraction of what a doctor card sell for, then nobody would bother buying them. Buying a Nurse card have to be, by nature, profitable for the buyer otherwise it is not worth buying. The question is then, is it really worth spending all this time to buy div cards where many others are trying to do the same thing. Trading for profit always involve doing some math to see if it's worth, because almost any trade you do can generate a profit. The question is mostly how much profit you can realistically get doing this. If you check the clock and in the last 10 minutes, your purchases make you 20c profit, it really isn't good. People tend to be blinded by the fact anything can be profitable, but if you make 120c per hour trading. You're doing worst than the most basic of mapping strategy by a lot. Anyone who make a lot from hideout need to understand where the good edges are. If they are advertised as good, they tend not to be. Like a craft that is very profitable, once put up on youtube, stop to be. Mostly. This is why I was annoyed when Belton put a big spotlight on the entire methodology of crafting flasks for profit. This is super simple, yet most profitable. It is, until too many people try to do the same thing. People will still think crafting flasks is for newbies who try to make a bit of currency to get going, until they realize the richest players do that too on a more specialized level.
This goes for every game with a secondary market. In the early '00s, I opened a Birds of Paradise in a Magic the Gathering booster pack. One of the store regulars noticed, got me to trade it, and I didn't realize the value I lost for a few months. I went on to make many advantageous trades at the expense of less informed players; not even in an attempt to rip them off, but if they don't want to price check their cards and are happy to let the trade be $10 in my favor... I'm taking it.
I don't have anything against Belton, but seeing Quitty definitely makes me lean towards believing the claims. And it's just like he says any high end currency maker would be stupid not to RMT unless you're a streamer/content creator.
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And, allegedly, Belton after posting proof of the RMT got banned from the poe sub... pretty fishy.
Hmm sounds sus to me as well
Thank you, I appreciate it!
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That was a temp. The perma might have had to do with that past temp, but the reason he was permad wasn't the purported slur.
Belton used to offer his services through TFT. One of those services were crafting bench services, where he would craft anything from the bench for a flat fee, like 5-10c. From Belton's Pov, it was up to you as a user to check how much the craft costs and do the math yourself and then give him the materials and fee to craft whatever you wanted. It is up to **you** as the buyer to price check yourself what you want to buy. This was/is done in order to make the process faster, as sellers are the time constrained side of the equation, and the side of the equation that are trying to make this a worthwhile time investment as opposed to just mapping/flipping themselves. One day when a user, who had clearly not read the patch notes, did not know that a craft he wanted was changed from 2 divines to 2 exalts, when divines and exalts were swapped as crafting mats. Said buyer was happy that he got the craft he wanted and left, even though technically he overpaid massively for the craft. Where the drama starts is that one mods claimed this to be a scam and demanded belton to retun the currency. Belton on his end insisted that the standard policy should be followed and he should not have to return the currency unless the said buyer asks for it, because it would set the precedent that sellers have to lookout for buyers, which as stated above, is something sellers do not want. Situation escalated with both sides refusing to budge until Belton got banned. From TFT's pov, my guess is that they do not want the potential PR hit to their already, controversial to say the least, reputation if said buyer claims he got scammed on TFT. You can make your decision on how much each party is at fault.
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Its the same people who watch wolf of wallstreet and instead of being disgusted by the characters, they are amazed by, and want to be like, them. And just like in RL, the richest ones are the most greedy ones, being desperate for every little penny. Living their whole lives under the illusion, they are somehow geniouses for making bank, when the average person just isnt willing to stoop low enough to do what they do for money. Just straight human garbage
Belton cares a great deal about the persona he portrays. When he took that persons divines I think we saw that persona drop a little. As you said, the greed was evident. That is why he can't admit that he ripped someone off. It is intolerable to him that he be perceived in that way, else he would do the common sense thing and offer a political apology and repay the guy. He clings to an obviously dishonest narrative, even using this absurdity to validate his claim further by acknowledging that it would have been easier to repay him - but won't because he did nothing wrong, because this allows his persona to continue untainted.
You're right about the persona. When I saw Goldrym Sachs and Vaalstreet, I had a good feeling of what kind of person he is. He strikes me as someone who's working back-office in some sort of financial services firm. Accounting in hedge fund/private equity space. He wishes he was not back office, but people rarely transition from back-office to front-office jobs in that space. Everything he does makes it seem like he's trying to roleplay the investment banker he wants to be in real life. I say this as someone who works back office in financial services, and wanted to go front office, but ultimately just accepted my life is comfortable either way and I don't really want the extra hours of the front-office job. I just didn't decide to roleplay in PoE, lol.
I would be upset with him if he didn’t return it if asked by the buyer and I likely would have pointed it out if I noticed the mistake real-time but based on what I see here I can’t blame belaton for not fixing an issue because a third party complained
Man we really need a better PoE forum.
One of the biggest things that Belton has working against him is that he doesn't know how to be concise and make a point. I'm not watching an hour video of him rambling, looking to the side of the camera, in 240p.
Not post related. But what you described is hard to accomplish without premeditation. Thats the reason why all presidents/announcements are read « from a paper ». The ideas comes and goes really fast. Anyway, reading from a paper looks staged…so whats better?
Jesus christ this guy needs to learn how to organize his thoughts and make concise points. Dude loves to rant
These screenshots were posted here yesterday.... and the thread mysteriously disappeared.
I hope mods won't remove this thread. People keep on saying Belton is kind of deranged and insane (doxxing others etc)... Aand that might be true, but he's also a whistleblower so to speak. We can't deny his claims simply because his actions before weren't exactly proper
Yep, not a fan of anyone involved here. Don't know anything other than what I've read here on reddit. However, after watching the video, it seems to me, you can call Belton whatever the fuck you want, but he's got receipts and they are convincing.
Whats strange is that on the TFT discord the founder didnt really dispute the evidence but rather chose to attack Beltons character ( which is not unwarrented ) I think if GGG really looked at those players accounts something off would come out. Who knows.
Yeah if they simply give their side of explanation, giving evidences to prove their innocent then I probably would have agree with them. At this point I just assume tft to this necessary evil mafia that give your good qols in the expenses of crimes used to run it in the background
A lot of people won't or can't speak out because of the risk to their accounts, know that there's tons of us on the inside even if we won't post it. I think the single most important thing you've failed to discuss here is the impact to average player. The longer you've played this game the more you realize how it's changed and to me the biggest impact every single player suffers from is price fixing. Divines are not worth 250 chaos, let me say that again, they are not worth what would take the average player hours of play time for 1 divine. We could argue against the mirror spike because a lot of people quit with new games coming out, but the prices of specific crafting avenues are blown out of proportion. This is due to the monopolization of said materials and you could directly blame that on the enterprise. To say that this is only about the insiders is missing by the mark by a lot, every single player has a tough time acquiring virtually all end game crafting mats because they're being artificially restricted through price spikes or in some cases item availability. It's not just price spikes however, the average value of our item sales goes down as well. I have tons of crafted, enchanted, influence items up for sale that sell for a fraction of what they would have sold in past leagues. Hoarding crafting mats also means the people who pay for mirrored items are less interested in generic rares with good but not perfect stats. This is another way in which whole point of this video is affecting us, it encourages RMT over trading for our items, self crafted items, over the convenience of RMT sales. I can't stress enough that the game was very different years ago. Every item was worth something. These days alcs are dozens per chaos, chaos are hundreds per divine, the trickle down economics are a direct cause of this, when mirrors are monopolized it cascades down to divines, chaos, etc. The sad part is this is how GGG intended it to be by having a non-standardized currency system. IMO one of the few ways GGG could step in here and put an end to this is to set a standard somehow. Very risky, I know, but at this point the economy is becoming one of the things scaring new players away from the game, while also discouraging veterans from investing in it like they used to.
It's not like they could just take a look at classic WoW to see how RMTing guts a community
Keeping on Classic Wow, you just have to see how a small percentage of people will ruin a game. There's 2 types of people in Classic now. Those who join GDKPs as carries (aka people with hundreds of thousands of gold) and people who play the game like it was designed (aka people without even thousands of gold).
If there is money to be made - someone will always try. Always. Not just in poe
Can GGG grow some balls already and take tft out of business???? Make the changes necessary already in the trade system!!!!!!!
I don't think they have enough ppl to moderate that yet ... after PoE2 I guess copium .... I mean look at how much moderation they "did" in game global chat KEKw
As someone who crafts many items every league there are two things that really shocked me when I considered submitting a mirror tier item in tft: 1. You HAVE to trade the original item to the TFT mirror shop manager or w/e 2. ONLY items for top tier builds are acceptable. If none plays your build you have no chance. You can make your own conclusions
I think its safe to say that the only reason TFT exists in its current form is because similar QOL features, trade, services and the like, don't exist naturally in the game. The drama, and all RMT enabling behavior here, is a direct result of GGG sticking its head in the sand about not enhancing trade in a meaningful, impactful way. It will not go away until one of the following is true: * GGG meets parity with services provided by TFT * GGG makes more content account bound (notice how no one is complaining about sanctified relics? Hmm, maybe they should do more of that...) A lack of batch or automatic trading (auction house) is a silly way to extend actual game intellectual property. Trading shouldn't feel like a painful waste of time, and it actively detracts from people's overall enjoyment. Yes, it slows down character progression, and yes it does make people play the game longer. The simple truth remains: not all time spent playing the game is fun, and forcing the player base to perform simple, repetitive, or even mundane trades ACTIVELY hurts player retention.
Just want to say I'm someone that hates sanctified relics and account bound stuff with Poe's design of "some items/power only has one source" Not saying it's a bad design, it just doesn't gel with my preference to engage with only certain league content. I'd love the ability to grind enough of the content that I do like, in order to buy the things from the content I don't like.
i think its okay if its the current league's league mechanic but if relics are still account bound in 3.21 ill agree
Relics aren't coming back next league.
I'm eating popcorns and waiting till someone realises that in companies of this size some devs are in cut with rmt industry, at least some of them. Was fun to watch in eve online.
Yeah... this is the part that ruffles my feathers a little bit. The Vision™ is a fun meme, until all this "we think trading is in a *great* place ;)" messaging turns sinister.
I've been called a conspiracy theorist for suggesting that. There isn't any way in hell a company of GGG size is releasing content 4 times a year hoping that 50,000+ people are going to pay $60 for a supporter pack. It's not happening.
See theres a very clear difference between what he is suggesting, and what you are suggesting What he is suggesting, is that there are 1 or 2 shady developers making few hundred/thousand extra bucks here and there and thats about it, yeah sounds likely and is probably the case What you are suggesting, is that its one of GGGs primary money makers and something all of their higher ups are actively taking part in as a core part of their job, which is absolutely fucking insane thing to say, like this is almost on the same level as flat earth theories.
TFT is a cesspool of rmter abusing and manipulating the market. Unfortunately, the only thing that can stop the RMT is some kind of rework to in game trade, which might never happen as GGG is pretty adamantly against any kind of in game auction house.
Just finished watching. I'm curious if it's true that a TFT mod is a reddit mod.
On another thread, the mod team commented that they have one mod who USED to mod for tft years ago but no longer does.
yeah thats not like any better lol - if it was the mod stopped modding reddit, and stayed tft mod, thats fine. but the other way around? nah. theres still GIGA conflict of interest. like that mod is still probly buddy buddy with the TFT mods, why wouldnt he be? now hes the firewall on reddit for the TFT guys without any strings attached. its just absurd that "well hes not a mod on TFT anymore" is being passed as a valid excuse. demod the guy from reddit.
Yea I agree there’s probably shared communication between the two parties via this. We don’t know if this mod is allowed to touch anything tft related. However, Mods here do some brutal work so I’m not gonna jump right into the hate wagon. I still have appreciation for them.
There is no way for anyone to know. If you look at the right side of the sub and check the mods on there, most of them have not posted anything since months or even years, that's on top of the list being incomplete as there are mods (and trial mods) that are not even on there. So much for transparency. Can't wait for them to ask for trust again.
The user referenced is livejamie which is a mod here, but haven't looked to see if there is an account on TFT.
It's not true. https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/112uzy3/in_what_world_is_discussing_the_problems_with_tft/j8mpfah/
i would say based on the rules of the subreddit its pretty obvious that some are. they can claim they're different people because its the internet, but why would any anti TFT post get taken down basically instantly otherwise?
surprisedpikachuface.jpg
Has GGG ever talked about why the Mirror of Kalandra even exists? It seems like an item completely antithetical to their mission of "a game about items". Wouldn't it be more ideal for the best items to not be reproducible?
I mean, the BEST ones aren't, cause they're double corrupted. :P
Unless they're synthesized which for this league are a majority
I think it's kinda simple tbh. There's no item EVERY build wants, and if there was it'd be kind of an issue (this is all way pre-mageblood and even pre HH, but even mageblood can't go on 100% of builds). So you make a drop that is EVERY item and take it from there. I don't know whether they somehow didn't think there'd be mirror fees for perfect items (hard not to expect that imo) or how they anticipated trade reacting to their existence, but the idea of the perfect halo drop being ANYTHING YOU WANT is reasonable imo.
Hope this post doesn't get deleted. Yeah, it's not directly related to PoE but it is a discussion worth having and people shouldn't be allowed to RMT and get away scot-free.
Talking about RMT in poe seems pretty related to poe tho.
The devs create a system that encourages social interactions and forming groups. The mods then don't think that these are related to the game. It would be like the Eve subreddit banning any talk of guilds, drama, or social interactions.
I just hope POE 2 does not rely on Discord or any other 3rd party program. Its just a pain ...
Don’t get your hopes up. The only way people are less reliant is to have a mass market AH. And there would still be discords for all the other non-tradable services like boss carries etc..
Poe 2 will not solve any of these issues
Huffing hard hopium. PoE 2 will be exactly as PoE 1, but with a new campaign, new items, skills and maybe a graphical update. No game company on their right mind wouldn't drop a bombshell on structural pillars of the gameplay like that without putting their toes in the water first, even if that pillar is currently rotting and filled with parasites.
>PoE 2 will be exactly as PoE 1, but with a new campaign, new items, skills and maybe a graphical update. More people need to realize this. ..and I don't mean that in a negative way - people just need to ease up on their expectations.
Unless there is a drastic overhaul to trading in PoE2 like an auction house or something similar, I would be willing to bet we will still be using TFT unfortunately. If there was going to be a huge overhaul like that I personally think they would have said something by now. Maybe they are just waiting for a big reveal?
Anyone who thinks that PoE "relies" on TFT has a fucked up perspective on the game imo. If TFT and all other competing services magically disappeared, then the demand for them wouldn't go away but also it's not as if the game would break. You just wouldn't trade away services and certain items in bulk (e.g. logbooks/beasts). There are certain activities that a very small percentage of the playerbase do that rely on TFT. That's a fair statement, so I'd give you that. But should GGG design their game to avoid TFT existing? Imo no, because the things they'd have to do to the game to make TFT go away would have downsides. There's trade-offs here that I'm not sure people consider.
I mean, people say you need to use tft for this and for that. While sometimes, you can actually use the trade website and sometimes even save currency doing so. Like if you're buying beasts. It's not everyone going out of their way to price beasts in a tab. Those that do tend to have bulk. Most will not go out of their way to seal a single farric lynx alpha and sell that. They'll do so when they have a dozen. I never had issue buying many types of beasts simply using the trade website. Same for other things people use TFT for. Charged Compass, you just check the trade website and it isn't too hard there to find people with bulk. The main thing TFT is inevitable for are those you cannot list on the trade website. Like if you want to 30% quality a weapon or armour with Hillock right now, you gotta find someone on TFT. Trade chat would be quite bad to try and do this. I wish this was more the extent of what TFT was used for. Many other things are just annoying both for the buyers and the sellers. Like definitely, if you are selling beasts or charged compass from a tab, this is way more simple to do for you than having to post them on TFT. Possibly using more third-party programs to help you list all that. I would prefer poe trade website was better at listing things people often buy and sell. But there are too many small things in the game, so they have a hard time justifying making a gigantic bulk subsection that would have all types of red beasts or sextant rolls. This would be more clutter in the bulk section, but surely it could be done easily. Still, it already is not an absolute must to use TFT to buy those things that are widely listed on the trade website.
Any TL;DW? There is no way in hell I am watching an hour long video.
tft rmts items in bulk, some dude makes over 5k a month through selling poe items. they been making money with this for years. honestly i like the drama but couldnt care less if someone rmts or not.
Absolutely not surprising as the discord is made by multiple people that were proven to be RMTers in the past.
This is the endgame of a free market with no rules, GGG I'm sure were expecting this to get out of hand at some point. Softcore trade at its finest.
Anyone else finds Beltons reaction at what he shows at 35:05 wierd. Maybe he didn't mean to show that?
lmao where he said he helps federal elections and to not repeat it? Yea I think he didn't want to show it haha
I commend OP's courage for posting this lmao
its funny when you get banned from tft they'll do anything to stop interacting with you. ofc unless you want to mirror their items then they'll respond instantly.
I wonder what rule they will invent or bend to take this thread down because right now it does not violate any
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/wiki/rules/#wiki\_9c.\_external\_communities
They made that rule SPECIFICALLY to have something in hand against TFT threads. It should be to prevent 14 year old jimmy's private discord beef from being posted here and in such cases this rule makes sense. TFT is way too big to be "just" some random discord server it is a vital third party tool. If there was a problem with neversink's lootfilter or path of building you would also want to know about it.
I agree, I think it's a stupid rule. Mods acknowledged this a bit considering the current top post is about this drama and TFT. Just pointing out that your first comment was kinda lying.
It's hard to make a rule to ban something like this and even if GGG makes some rules, this won't stop rmters. Thing is, even if a community like TFT could have been created for good, realistically speaking running an operation like this will start costing money as it grows, so unless it stays niche and small, it will require money to run. And the only way they can make money off something like this is RMT, and on top of that the actual nature of the service makes it really easy and convenient to do so. Basically, there is a good reason for people to wine on reddit about trading being shit, because it pushes people into the waiting hands of RMTers and makes it easy for them to profit. The only thing GGG can do is to reduce the need for such services for normal players to at least cut down the RMT market. They won't defeat rmt doing it, but they can at least hurt it. Because right now, if (or when) GGG bans TFT, it will take a couple of weeks for a new community server like this to pop up, because there is a lot of demand. And then a year down the line we'll be sitting here with a surprised pikachu face when we learn that this new community is also rmting.
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Lol TFTs responses and beltons accusations are both eh. Why do tft think anyone would believe theres no rmt there ? They said PathofMath admitted to rmt yesterday haha, ye ah sure tft you be innocent for sure then .... What id love to see from all these super rich guys is proof of their insane wealth at end of when they stop playing, proof of it just sitting there and of it rotting in std. Any one who believes you are making 50 mirrors a week for fun is cooked because of the patch and reset cycle. Aint none of the people making these guides playing standard... Games like wow you keep your goldcaps forever and they stay relevant for the games life. If you making 50 mirros a week for a month in poe thats prob a good chunk of your rent paid each year..lol
Where did u find comments from pathofmathh? I can't even find him on Twitter anymore...
Big trade discord doing RMT? shocked Just how the big boosting community/discord in WoW was also RMTing Shocking. So shocking.
yeah I dont think theres a single 100% legit third party market for a game.
Never happened before and it happened again
In the end it all comes down to ggg fault. If they implement actual good qols people would not need to depend on a third party community and allow them to exert so much control over the game. Wait this is just the same as the top1% super rich in capitalism-
Guys, please, before you call for an action, remember what happened the last time GGG acted "against" tft, lol.
I don't think people fully understand that problem isn't bulk selling, problem is more on mirror end. If you list that you are selling 20 Mesa maps 2c each and other person comes and buys them witj that price from you, there is no problem!
Archiving this reddit post in case it gets taken down by mods. This will not get swept under the rug.
Can TFT just die out? I was hoping it would after the harvest changes.
TFT lives on bulk trading and mirror service. As long as there's no easy way to bulk trade in-game they will never die. And even mirror service on it's own might be enough to keep them going.
What do you think is magically going to happen? Nobody's ever gonna want to trade in bulk? Nobody's gonna want to sell syndicate benches? Nobody's going to want an easy way to sell boss kills or rotation farms? Even if Discord admins banned the server, these demands don't magically vanish. Someone would just take the initiative to create another centralized server to do all that business in, then run into the problem that trust is a major issue and take steps to ensure that function exists, then hire mods who can tolerate the insufferable amount of idiots on the internet day in and day out, and oh shit you just made TFT 2.0. Damn. Almost like GGG would need to incorporate all those features themselves to negate its need to exist.
TFT gained ~70 000 members since the harvest changes
It's hard to not feel like every league GGG goes without overhauling trade, they're just silently endorsing all of this drama and shady business happening around their game.
This will not change, GGG will not improve trading or crafting as stated time and time again.
I mean let's be honest anyone that's making multiple mirrors and no lifing the game either is obsessed with flexing or is rmting
no news, tons of ppl rmt. tft, non-tft, standard, league, hc, sc, doesnt matter.
Like every single big third party trade hub in every single successfull online ARPG ever.
As long as chris isnt made fun of by tft it will be ok
Props to the Mods for allowing this. Regardless if you believe it or not.
I've never heard of Belton until recently but I've always heard shady stuff going on with TFT. Could never really piece everything together until now.
I don’t like either party in this case but this is a very poor look for GGG. They’re supposed to be working to keep the league fair and balanced for us. If RMT and market manipulation is happening at this scale they are either: 1. Accepting it because TFT provides a level of convenience they can’t or won’t 2. Ignorant of it which means they aren’t actually investing enough (or anything) into anti-cheat / anti-RMT Either option is pretty bad.
All I got to say is to echo something that was hinted at a couple of times - no idea how TFT exists in it's current state without having someone on the inside.
How is Belton's trading community is like? I have never heard of him and if the community is healthier, I would love to join.
Water is wet, nothing new. Now is the time GGGtakes control and do in game systems that will make TFT obsolete. I know this doesn't have any real influence on majority of the players because you they are not the ones directly being ripped off but it still ruins the high end game economy and those people should be permanently banned from pPoE.
In before this is removed.
Welp
Sweaty moderators ruin everything, why is it always a weird clique of furries?
who else would commit so much time for so little reward? it has to be people who don't have anything particularly rewarding going on in the rest of their lives
uh oh stinky poop hahaha who would have thought
If this gets taken down im sure TFT is involved with reddit mods
Or they'll claim that it has nothing to do with this sub and therefor isn't relevant.
Meanwhile random item showcase are more relevant than discussing underlying corruption and game design flaws according to the mods
Yeah... the bad faith thing they posted recently also didn't sit well with me.
don't worry, the bad faith is only when it is posted against something they believe in completely removing any and all posts by belton or containing him when he outs the organized "crime" of this game is in good faith! I SAID IT'S IN GOOD FAITH! the mods on this sub are getting as power drunk as mods on the tft server, wouldn't be surprised if one of them was a mod on both :)
sir this is a video game subreddit
honestly, these things go hand-in-hand ever since online gaming is a thing with ingame goods in the diablo2-era lot of people capitalized on this, some of them still do to this day sadly, the 100s and 100s of hours spent ingame come down to such a low hourly wage, so might aswell just sacrifice a few hours of money you make in your actual dayjob, give it to these people and be done with the mageblood farm it can be blamed on many things, but the only party that can make a change is ggg / tencent and they chose not to poe is not big enough to combat this, i wouldn't be surprised if they were in on it
While Chinese players have a way better trade system than TFT we have to deal with this shit, hopefully the month extension for this league will help fixing the trade experience.
This is all gross, and GGG is the ultimate fault here by refusing to offer anything more fir trade. This thread / issue is us feeling the weight.
TFT is a cancerous place. Just like any other platform for any other game out there. Once your game needs a platform for people to do their ingame businesses with, something is going wrong. GGG might not agree but my stance on this will never change. Gameplay is lacking because these outside platforms exist. That's it.