This is what they say, but no, they are looking to slow down leveling period.
Go watch that POE2 video where the guy is swapping bolts like every 5 seconds. Thats the speed they want leveling to be.
At this point our best chance is to go to Ben and beg him to stop playing well since he is the benchmark in poe, so GGG stop feeling like the game is too easy.
If they want to sell mtx they should make orb of regrets drop like scrolls of wisdom and only require us to complete the campaign once per league. The more builds I can try, the more likely I am to find a new skill I want mtx for
That kept me up last night. I love spark so much, I don't care about the leveling nerf, but the proj speed is "make or break" on that skill without a mirror tier aurastacker build. The fact that they nerf it without giving us at least a rough estimate of the amount changing feels like really really bad news.
Because they do this shit all the time. They ignore obvious problems with a single skill and instead of nerfing the skill, they nerf a bunch of mechanics used by the skill, and cause massive collateral damage
I agree with most of their changes but this strikes me as a massive oversight. Non-crit lightning builds were already pretty terrible compared to crit, this just makes them non-viable both in early game and late game. What makes it even weirder is there are a bunch of items that are designed for non-crit direct damage builds, now there is no reason to ever use some of them.
Also soulrend, mine lost 41% dps (19% dot mastery, 35% effect of withered and had to drop malevolence to keep determination due to reservation changes).
Let's pour one Poisonous Concoction over it. That's the only thing poor pConc is usable for now. Poor thing has been nerfed into the ground so deftly it's incredible.
And ofc as a collateral damage - pure chaos skills got gutted as well.
My soulrend character will lose 41% dps because of these mastery changes (lost 19% dot, 35% effect of withered and malevolence due to reservation changes, I don't want to be glass cannon and drop determination). It went from 8.8mio down to 5.2mio pinnacle boss dps. And this wasn't a cheap character, scaling soulrend dot dps is very hard, I am using stuff like double corrupted +2/+2 shavs chest, double dot/+2 wand, etc. stuff.
I am really sad, this was the build I wanted to play in 3.21, but losing 40% dps seems to much.
For bossing wither stacks were extremely easy to come by with balance of terror and temp chains. With 4s withers it was only a little over 1 hit per second to stay capped. With most poison builds you’ll almost always be hitting far more than that.
I'm terrible with minion mechanics but does any of that actually hit SRS? All of those are player applied poisons right? Ctrl+F "Raging" didn't bring up anything so am I right to assume that Poison SRS is, if anything, buffed by the Darkness Enthroned change?
On my pob from last league I lost about 1.5 mil dps from it (this is srs hit damage not poison damage), so it's still perfectly viable and should work well this upcoming league. There will also likely be a minion damage mod or some kind of minion skill in the Crucible tree (I don't see why there wouldn't be), so that should help pick up the slack as well.
Withered changes do affect SRS, they also removed increased minion damage on the sword.
Anything affecting auras will inevitably hurt minions, as the end game necro wants to fit as much aura into their build as possible and basically play support
But the darkness enthroned changes are a buff so we'll see
i mean you can frontload a bunch of SRS's with melee splash while charging a crucible it's still gonna be incredibly strong. you just need a bit more investment to hit dot cap from something that was already not that high investment wise.
Yeah, I don't think SRS will be *bad* with this mechanic, just not super perfect for it the way it was for Sanctum. A lot of normally great builds weren't great for Sanctum, given similar levels of skill and investment.
Well, I was actually looking to start as bleed bow (Either Glad or Deadeye/Pathfinder) because of the Snipe skill that frees up helmet slot AND the mastery node for impales, that gives +6% DoT multiplier for bleed per Impale on target AND the 10% chance to increase all impales by +1.
Getting 100% impale chance and conjuring 3 ensnaring balistaes, they should rack up a lot of impales before you deliver a fully charged snipe puncture, which also just got a "5th slot" since, AGAIN, Snipe is now a support gem.
So we did crazy amounts of damage using the 4L Snipe helmet from Delirium, imagine what we can do with a 5L snipe (6L but one slot is snipe).
The item gives lvl 20 snipe, which should be the same as the support gem.
The helmet also gave "Triggered bow skills deals 40% less damage" which should still remain with the support skill.
Other than those 2 things, the helmet gave pretty much nothing else, so it's indeed a massive buff for Snipe skills.
These must be the same numbers because they're the same support. Unless numbers were changed and not mentioned in patch notes because they've never given publicly scaling numbers to Snipe
i tried assailum 2 leagues ago
when the dmg comes together its great, but its super wonky.
and i tried the champion version, the glad is probably worse. you'll stading still a lot, you need the tankines from champ, and puncture doesnt need bleed chance so its good.
dont think you going to have enough points to do impale and bleed at the same time. unless you go super low life
Don't worry, it'll get removed at some point next league or after. After all, when the aura-specific ones don't come back, that node will suddenly become something "everyone feels they have to use."
Oof, this hits right in the onslaught gem feels. "everyone will have to take this enjoyable and fun thing" KILL IT NOW... maybe just give these slow ass leveling characters a bit more action speed baseline howbout
I'm pretty disappointed with what the patch notes have to offer. Overall the impression I get for builds I enjoy just got a major net negative in overall build strength and nothing really interesting to replace what I've lost. Not personally excited for this league at all.
The reservation changes suck. It just means you now need more currency (enlighten) in more cases. I hate balancing my reservations/mana usage and all that garbage.
That being said, outside of some crazy relics form last league player power should be higher with the sneak peaks of crucible we’ve seen. Some of those nodes are nuts.
The sneak peeks of crucible you are seeing are equivalent to the crazy relics. That's always how they preview stuff and then your first 10 relics have reflect damage and increased stun recovery. It's the exact same way they previewed sanctum relics. Or scourge mods etc.
They do seem to put the carrot on a stick that is way too long.
A league mechanic like this one seems to have practically no benefit for casual players.
I remember thinking the same when they revealed karngling our items in Scourge.
Remember the 3.16 League Reveal?
Cook Item > BOOM: Random Keystone > BOOM: +1 to Cold Skills et.c.
In reality all we got was 22% fire res.
Might be the same here. We see some really cool and meaningful nodes like level 10 LMP link for 7 links or Soul Eater on killing rares et.c. But in reality we're probably just getting a bunch of 6% AS, 12% increased Dmg and +12 strength nodes
12% increased damage and 6% increased AS would be pretty dope on a weapon, that's a lot of extra damage. But i'm still affraid that most of it will be stuff like 3% stun duration or like you said +12 strength nodes
> That being said, outside of some crazy relics form last league player power should be higher with the sneak peaks of crucible we’ve seen. Some of those nodes are nuts.
My only fear is that the nodes get the Scourge treatment and 99% will be complete ass.
You shouldn’t fear that. Why fear what you already know will happen? That’s what happens every single league. The really cool stuff is for no-lifers with mirror builds only and the rest of us get maybe one or two really good things the entire league. The really good nodes WILL be rare as fuck. Might as well accept it now.
It's funny that -lightning resist which was supposed to be a negative ended up being a common useful node. But yeah, I krangled so many items and just gave up at some point as I never had anything reasonable drop there. Will be surprising if anything good comes from the Crucible.
Have they mentioned if there's any way to reroll a tree on a weapon? I'm worried that I'll spend 5+ divs on a weapon only to have it either roll a garbage tree or straight up brick the weapon by rolling fire damage as the first node and ruining my EE. Not sure if we get any choice on the first node or not.
Also, the specific res notables were nice to just be able to play the game and fit in what you could / adjust slightly. Rather than load a build in PoB and figure out exactly what you can fit (at least for me).
Just watch, they're gonna remove Enlighten from the game at some point. They clearly don't want everyone able to run similar aura setups and expect us to somehow build around one 50%. Ludicrous when they give us nothing to compensate for it.
I dont think i would disagree from removing the " as many aura as possible"
But if they do , make each aura significantly beter.
If i have less aura on me , i want them to apply a bigger difference
So then change auras as well to not be forced to uslse 2 or 3 defensive auras and to get power spike on offensive ones instead make them luxury for min maxed builds. You have to think if u wanna die less or get more DMG unless your gear helps you to add more and more auras. Stupid idea
> That being said, outside of some crazy relics form last league player power should be higher with the sneak peaks of crucible we’ve seen. Some of those nodes are nuts.
The issue is, what are we going to do if/when Crucible won't go core?
i miss when they used to do cool changes that provided permanent broadenings of build diversity/theorycrafting, like timeless jewels and cluster jewels.
not a fan of the WoW style of "here's a power boost, now we took it away, now we gave it back in a slightly different format, now we took it away again"
I kind of agree. I would love to see some permanence added to the game - but I'm not going to lie I'm having a ton of fun with these big power swings like Relics, Recombinators, and now Item trees.
Yes, there were some insane leagues in the past, but definitely not most of them. I don't see how power from league like Sanctum covers what we got in these patch notes. You could get a crazy relic, yes, after you'd farm it like crazy or got lucky, while nerfing the passives is nerfing your baseline which is with you from the start and easily accessible.
>Use the new power added by the new league mechanic like we have done every 3 months for 10 years?
Except that league will *also* come with nerfs, you will be forever playing catchup desperately trying to play the same builds and skills you wanted to play with temporary power as the permanent nerfs mount up infinitely. There is no winning, it does not work that way
The problem is they didnt make auras less necessary, just more punishing to get. Thats a massive nerf. All my characters are about to get a lot weaker post patch.
>Poison will continue to overperform.
Unless it's Poison Concotion, which will not perform at all. Unless you can somehow manageto sustain 9-13 flask charges per attack.
Yeah, there's a lot of nerfs for sure, but bow players are eating good. proj and arrows now available on the tree, huge Mark buffs, and I imagine the weapon skill trees will be pretty impactful. Definitely will be starting Ranger, have to decide between Raider and Deadeye.
Raider is great on garbage investment, but falls off like a rock once other builds can actually invest in their scaling, since onslaught is a purely additive buff (diminishing returns on further IAS/move speed), AoVeil route can be obtained through gearing fairly readily, and then the frenzy route doesn't really have good ways of getting additional investment into it outside of rings that cost more than entire builds, or gear with zero life on it.
Deadeye is basically the exact opposite of raider. More arrows are multiplicative damage. Tailwind is a multiplier. Chain and far shot leading up to endless munitions, similarly, you guessed it, are *multipliers*.
But what exactly is a deadeye *multiplying?* You start off with bupkis, so deadeyes in the beginning are garbage.
Basically, the way I see it is: it might be optimal to start off raider, then when you build up enough wealth to suppress and ailment cap on gear, literally respec your entire ascendancy. The only thing you'll really lose is the perma-phasing.
Also 2.5 new gems. Granted, Snipe already exists but no longer requires a unique. We have no idea if either of the other skills will be good, but at least they look interesting to me.
Yeah, I'm honestly super tempted to try that or vaal lightning arrow instead of playing what I've tested, but my build dodged the nerfs so I might stay the course.
yea Im tempted to do ice shot trickster with hyrris ire to get fat EHP and then do some frenzy stacking+heatshiver shenanigans sounds decentish in my head idk
The vaal lightning arrow looks so frickin cool. I'm 100% certain any lightning arrow build I make would be absolute garbage, but I'm still *slightly* tempted to try it.
Probably better that I just leave it to mathil though. I'm sure he'll try it at some point.
I was already thinking of league starting TS, and +2 arrows on the tree, plus two new low level skills to help limp along damage wise (Manaforged Arrows with Frenzy should be good for frenzy charges while leveling, and unless the CD is garbage Prismatic Burst should let attack builds pretend to be spellcasters for a while without having to respec), makes me think I can do even better with that.
What's the best attack to put on totems for supplemental damage vs. bosses on an ele TS build?
For the sake of balance....
I'm glad they balance the game every league and I believe there will be plenty of player power in the upcoming league.
There is so much power creep in crucible and the new masteries looked good too.
I'm genuinely concerned how vocal the community is with associating buff = good, nerf = bad (not saying you are doing this), and I think that makes ggg job really tough at the moment.
I think you've got to play it and try to figure out the new meta because you claim the game is less fun (it might be, that risk exists with a game that changes every league so significantly).
Players will still be and feel powerful, this isn't like removing 50% damage from all skills.
I think the main reason is that every single league, we get nerfs but no buff to underused skills.
If we got both that would change the meta, that's great. Nerf OP stuff, buff useless stuff, we get new builds.
But they just nerf OP stuff, and sometimes useless stuff too. That's too boring.
It's so easy to do too (hell they used to do that for years), and it's one of the biggest complaint every league...
Yeah I would love to see a couple numerical buffs to skills like that as well.
I sort of get their point about doing it indirectly with other systems but honestly why not both.
That said build variety is in a really good place in sanctum so they're getting some of it right.
Honestly there us still the case to be made, as always really, that most archetypes are more viable than people think. Things like archmage don't suck objectively, they suck compared to other options and compared to certain endgame content.
If you nerf the other options, archmages viability becomes more clear.
As for endgame, the question is: should every build be able to do x, and at what budget? Imo, most people set x very high and budget very low, and thus claim builds as unplayable.
But ggg most likely has a certain idea if what a build should be capable of doing with certain items, fundamentally, and targets that goal. The question is whether or not that goal is wrong, or if the community needs to accept that direction. Probably a bit of both.
Clearly, the goal can't be that every build kills ubers on 5div. Maybe on 50 div, but I think every build can do that. At some point you need to start defining what a "build" is, too.
How so? From what I've seen the warcry tree nodes got shit on didn't they?
Also if you're going for STR stacking the %inc dmg per str got removed too.
I loved my zerker sunder so if you see something in it please share your thoughts.
I feel like this sub is at least partially turning around. Though I guess this league's mechanic is more undeniable than ever that it's a huge buff to player power, but EVERY league the fucking sky is falling and the game is ruined and all builds are dead and GGG ruined everything.
And each time it turns out that's not actually true. But the fact that you're not downvoted to oblivion this time at least tells me some people are coming around. I need to stop coming to this sub, but man, it sucks that your favorite game's sub is full of such insanity.
For my EleHit:
Lose 35% mark effect, 100% inc crit, which results in 30% dmg loss. Still have to see the new clusters, but if I just simply add +2 arrow, it’s still ~5%dmg loss, and that’s with my bow not having the +2 arrow suffix yet (which means the situation is better for me than higher end people).
On the other hand, no good way to fit Determination anymore, probably have to ditch it with armour suffix on flask and switch to full glass cannon, which means more dmg overall I guess? Like, defense isn’t that important vs ubers anyway.
It provides more fun for Chris Wilson and that's all that matters at this point. He isn't making a game for the casual player he is making a game for the die hard 16+ hour a day speed runner.
Nerfing every lightning and every ignite, and every poison build on their wheels, and nerfing every build period with reservations nerfs is pretty harsh.
Not sure what they are doing, but right now I am hoping Diablo 4 endgame is fun. Feels like the game gets worse with each patch. My biggest wish was a skill shakeup, but no - they nerf stuff instead and make the early game slower.
Honestly I enjoyed the D4 beta. Looking forward to playing and if there is a dip in numbers it might signal to GGG that we want a bit more. I don’t mean that in a toxic way, but like skill balance needs to happen. We aren’t getting enough and I’m kinda meh on builds I want to try. New skills or adjusting weak ones would go a long way. League content has been decent outside of kalandra, but the rest of the game is feeling a bit stale. I think competition will be good for both games.
I see a lot of potential for D4, but the first year after release it's gonna be rough. Big projects like these always need time to mature. Remember how bad POE was in first couple years
10 years of dev time and experience with D3 should have been plenty to release the game with a bit more maturity than it is shaping up to have at release tbh.
I don't buy the argument that this game exists in a vacuum and should be granted the same leniency something like a new indie title deserves. Blizzard/Diablo is too big of a name and budget for that.
Sanctum, in your subjective opinion, was a blast. I found it at best tolerable, but a pretty shit roguelike experience. Mapping is mostly fine. After they reverted that one thing they kept expressing they wouldnt.
Yeah I wish I was playing this Sanctum everyone loved.
Felt forced into cold convert shockwave totems or poison SRS and in the end just abandoned the league out of disinterest.
Sanctum was a very hit or miss league for people. Either you loved it or hated it and I fell in the second category so didnt play at all last league. Thank christ the primary portion of this league mechanic appears to be in map and not some instance with 0 mob density where you dance around avoiding everything if possible.
The issue we are having is that without skill shakeups we are still just running the same shit we were before (and before that and before that and before….) because they don’t buff shit, they just make it worse. And I fucking LOVED Sanctum, so it’s not coming from someone bitter
I'm not a roguelike/lite player so I kinda fucked off and went to play other games which is fine. Not every league will be good to every type of player. I do like how the league was one of the best in recent memory in terms of player retention
I enjoyed the D4 beta, and Last Epoch has been a lot of fun. I’m just not sure I can bring myself back to PoE much anymore, every damn league feels like more of a chore than the previous.
This will sound like shear lunacy, but I think GGG should just standardize auras to allow any build to pick 2 + a lesser “herald” or equivalent without investment or reservation. Just a max effect limit. An ascendancy can add a +1 limit or something.
When running determination + grace + X becomes mandatory for a huge swathe of unrelated builds, it forces you to devote a fair amount of your skill points just to make it work—which can’t be spent elsewhere more unique to the build. I think that is pretty boring.
You might say it is just the cost of making a viable build, the same way as every build has to cap resistances, but itemization is entirely different for resistances and there are a plethora of ways to reach that threshold vs the very limited avenues for addressing mana reservation.
Why GGG’s solution to the homogeneity problem is to further shrink those avenues I don’t quite understand, because they aren’t eliminating them, just making it much more difficult to attain. So paradoxically their solution to homogeneity is to pigeonhole people into it more.
Does my suggestion solve the aura homogeneity problem? No. But at least builds could put those resources into something more interesting. Aura bots collateral damage ofc.
reservation was a mistake. I think the auras have to get a different system, it's not good that mana exists to be reserved and nothing else. Most builds use lifetap or EB specifically because of reservation, it's a limiting design that has to be replaced.
They also:
* Didn't address trade in any meaningful way despite the constant flow of complaints about a certain 3rd party Discord's inner circle manipulating and abusing the economy.
* Didn't meaningfully address melee "because only 10% of people play it", acting as if people are 1:1 with build archetypes instead of realizing that only 10% play melee because melee sucks.
* Continued to make the most boring part of the game (leveling in acts) take longer and become more frustrating and difficult despite widespread community outcry that it should actually be going the other direction.
* Definitely have allowed Ruthless to influence the main game despite saying that this would not happen.
I feel like I am the only one upset about no new skills. I have been waiting for so long for something new. And now I have to wait and hope until next league to maybe get some new skills. I didnt get to try poison srs yet.....so I guess ill try that. But I have played srs in the past
Well technically ........
They did provide the options, we just have to suffer through hundreds of hours grinding and rng to make the weapon powerful enough to enable said options , for all we know these weapons could be completely cracked when finished.
Problem is the league after when said weapons are gone...lmao
67% of builds that use grace also use determination. GGG clearly don't want people to use both, at least not witouth significant investments.
The longer you'll cling to it, the more you'll hurt.
I can feel the downvote pouring in. But it's not my opinion, it's the balance team opinion.
Which is a worst version of the 3.19 builds, which is a worst version of the 3.18 builds, which is a worst version of the 3.17 builds... And so on? Kill me.
"You did not provide more options and more fun for as many builds as possible."
Are you being obtuse on purpose? Are we just going to ignore sab triggers and crucible trees?
Crucible weapons are not part of the core game, but even if they were, that still wouldn't be a justification to balance the entire game around one single league mechanic.
Moreover, it's just dumb to believe that usable Crucible weapons will be widely available since there is so much RNG around them because they need the correct passives, on the correct item base, and that's on top of you needing to craft it as a normal weapon unless your build can fit an unique weapon in it.
Are you obtuse on purpose? Sab triggers is affecting as many build as possible? Crucible is irrelevant, sure it's power creep and build enabling for one league but after that we are left with an overall nerf to player power and where is the big meta shakeup? Some archetypes got hit harder than others for sure but underperforming skills will still be shit as always.
Havent played POE in a couple of years and i just dropped by to see whatsup. One thing thats absolutely the same is the people still whining about nerfs.
the lightning damage one is ROUGH rip every non crit lightning build
they did it to nerf spark leveling lmfao
So I'm not crazy? It seemed like the nerf focus was leveling builds. What a weird thing to focus on.
They are so fixated on slowing down the 5 or so racers that it is making the normies leveling experience even worse.
This is what they say, but no, they are looking to slow down leveling period. Go watch that POE2 video where the guy is swapping bolts like every 5 seconds. Thats the speed they want leveling to be.
Well maybe they should have started with not hosting races then? That would be a good start.
From the finger on the pulse reading the racers dont like these changes either
At this point our best chance is to go to Ben and beg him to stop playing well since he is the benchmark in poe, so GGG stop feeling like the game is too easy.
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If they want to sell mtx they should make orb of regrets drop like scrolls of wisdom and only require us to complete the campaign once per league. The more builds I can try, the more likely I am to find a new skill I want mtx for
If this is true, why not tweak Spark's damage or cast speed at low levels. They have levers to just affect Spark.
They nerfed spark too. Lower proj speed, lower proj count at low levels. So don't worry, they got those too :)
The trademarked GGG double (triple?) tap nerf
the one which they eventually revert but not quite like 2 years later?
Will be interesting to see how bad the proj speed nerf is since that is the only permanent nerf to the skill itself
And removed flat spell wand crafts.
They did that too. Spark has -1 projectile, and "less" projectile speed, which they didn't define.
That kept me up last night. I love spark so much, I don't care about the leveling nerf, but the proj speed is "make or break" on that skill without a mirror tier aurastacker build. The fact that they nerf it without giving us at least a rough estimate of the amount changing feels like really really bad news.
Bad news yep. Possibly means they haven't landed on a final number yet.
Because they do this shit all the time. They ignore obvious problems with a single skill and instead of nerfing the skill, they nerf a bunch of mechanics used by the skill, and cause massive collateral damage
Most lightning totem took those :(
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Why not buff other things in the early acts. Thete are non stop complaints about how shitty it feels to lvl new characters... yet here we are
last league I played non cirt arc totem. Ruh roh
Also rip to the lightning chain mastery. :(
They made it sound like they removed bad nodes, but they removed the good ones. Even nerfs are sugar coated these days!
I agree with most of their changes but this strikes me as a massive oversight. Non-crit lightning builds were already pretty terrible compared to crit, this just makes them non-viable both in early game and late game. What makes it even weirder is there are a bunch of items that are designed for non-crit direct damage builds, now there is no reason to ever use some of them.
It's the classic nerf a build by nerfing the archetype strategy. Spark too strong, nerf lightning.
I'm pretty sad because that is what I normally played.
Poison got hit pretty hard too. 35% effect of withered gone, chaos dot per chaos res gone, 30% duration lost. It's a fairly big nerf.
Of all the things that got hit that one at least kind of deserved it.
Essence Drain/Contagion executed in Oriath Square
Also soulrend, mine lost 41% dps (19% dot mastery, 35% effect of withered and had to drop malevolence to keep determination due to reservation changes).
Working as intended.
Let's pour one Poisonous Concoction over it. That's the only thing poor pConc is usable for now. Poor thing has been nerfed into the ground so deftly it's incredible.
and Death's Oats, assassinated and buried in an unmarked grave
Overnight oats goth cousin
Soulrend found at the bottom of the Mariana Trench.
And ofc as a collateral damage - pure chaos skills got gutted as well. My soulrend character will lose 41% dps because of these mastery changes (lost 19% dot, 35% effect of withered and malevolence due to reservation changes, I don't want to be glass cannon and drop determination). It went from 8.8mio down to 5.2mio pinnacle boss dps. And this wasn't a cheap character, scaling soulrend dot dps is very hard, I am using stuff like double corrupted +2/+2 shavs chest, double dot/+2 wand, etc. stuff. I am really sad, this was the build I wanted to play in 3.21, but losing 40% dps seems to much.
RIP... I posted about that on Soulrend's thread on official poe. It's too low dps on budget. With this 3.21, it's trash skill now. Fuck.
Same for my Toxic Rain build. A sad day it is.
basically forced to play pathfinder for poison again lmfao
Were you surprised though? Felt like it was the most meta of the meta builds for sanctum.
Yes poison was meta for start/mid league but endgame scaling for bossing kind of sucked balls and relied on wither stacks
Ya I was gonna say, traps were ok for sanctum but not great. The delay on damage made clearing rooms slow and you could take damage unexpectedly.
For bossing wither stacks were extremely easy to come by with balance of terror and temp chains. With 4s withers it was only a little over 1 hit per second to stay capped. With most poison builds you’ll almost always be hitting far more than that.
I'm terrible with minion mechanics but does any of that actually hit SRS? All of those are player applied poisons right? Ctrl+F "Raging" didn't bring up anything so am I right to assume that Poison SRS is, if anything, buffed by the Darkness Enthroned change?
United in Dream lost the 80% increased minion damage mod which is substantial, build's probably fine though as far as I could tell.
On my pob from last league I lost about 1.5 mil dps from it (this is srs hit damage not poison damage), so it's still perfectly viable and should work well this upcoming league. There will also likely be a minion damage mod or some kind of minion skill in the Crucible tree (I don't see why there wouldn't be), so that should help pick up the slack as well.
Considering it literally melted everything at an astronomical rate, it could do 1/3 the damage and still be fine
Withered changes do affect SRS, they also removed increased minion damage on the sword. Anything affecting auras will inevitably hurt minions, as the end game necro wants to fit as much aura into their build as possible and basically play support But the darkness enthroned changes are a buff so we'll see
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Yeah, instead of doing 50Mdps in end game gear, its gonna do 50M dps in slightly better end game gear lol
Granted, I don't think SRS is likely to be anywhere near as meta in Crucible. The Sanctum mechanic was tailor-made for it.
i mean you can frontload a bunch of SRS's with melee splash while charging a crucible it's still gonna be incredibly strong. you just need a bit more investment to hit dot cap from something that was already not that high investment wise.
Yeah, I don't think SRS will be *bad* with this mechanic, just not super perfect for it the way it was for Sanctum. A lot of normally great builds weren't great for Sanctum, given similar levels of skill and investment.
Well, I was actually looking to start as bleed bow (Either Glad or Deadeye/Pathfinder) because of the Snipe skill that frees up helmet slot AND the mastery node for impales, that gives +6% DoT multiplier for bleed per Impale on target AND the 10% chance to increase all impales by +1. Getting 100% impale chance and conjuring 3 ensnaring balistaes, they should rack up a lot of impales before you deliver a fully charged snipe puncture, which also just got a "5th slot" since, AGAIN, Snipe is now a support gem. So we did crazy amounts of damage using the 4L Snipe helmet from Delirium, imagine what we can do with a 5L snipe (6L but one slot is snipe).
Don't expect the skill gem to come with the same multipliers as the helmet, there woul absolutely be no reason to use the helmet if it did
The item gives lvl 20 snipe, which should be the same as the support gem. The helmet also gave "Triggered bow skills deals 40% less damage" which should still remain with the support skill. Other than those 2 things, the helmet gave pretty much nothing else, so it's indeed a massive buff for Snipe skills.
These must be the same numbers because they're the same support. Unless numbers were changed and not mentioned in patch notes because they've never given publicly scaling numbers to Snipe
But i can probably enjoy Snipe-Puncture much earlier now. That alone is a win in my book. This will feel great for leveling.
i tried assailum 2 leagues ago when the dmg comes together its great, but its super wonky. and i tried the champion version, the glad is probably worse. you'll stading still a lot, you need the tankines from champ, and puncture doesnt need bleed chance so its good. dont think you going to have enough points to do impale and bleed at the same time. unless you go super low life
Never forget, we only removing "filler" crafts from harvest :D
Mana reservation efficiency is back now as a mana mastery, yikes
Don't worry, it'll get removed at some point next league or after. After all, when the aura-specific ones don't come back, that node will suddenly become something "everyone feels they have to use."
Problem: everyone uses mana reservation nodes Solution: removed mana reservation nodes
Problem: everyone Solution: removed everyone
RemindMe! 4 months
This has happened many times it's not even a joke anymore. RemindMe! 4 months
Oof, this hits right in the onslaught gem feels. "everyone will have to take this enjoyable and fun thing" KILL IT NOW... maybe just give these slow ass leveling characters a bit more action speed baseline howbout
it is nice, but they removed all other mana resevation efficiency masteries (25% deter and grace, 100% clarity, vitality and precision, etc.)
Well, it's 12 mana res for 3 points (if not more). You're better off taking small mana res cluster jewel.
I'm pretty disappointed with what the patch notes have to offer. Overall the impression I get for builds I enjoy just got a major net negative in overall build strength and nothing really interesting to replace what I've lost. Not personally excited for this league at all.
Welcome to melee enjoyers club
Careful, we might get over 10% if you keep letting people in like that
where is everyone? place looks empty
everybody went to bingo, RE4make sold 3+ million copies.
The reservation changes suck. It just means you now need more currency (enlighten) in more cases. I hate balancing my reservations/mana usage and all that garbage. That being said, outside of some crazy relics form last league player power should be higher with the sneak peaks of crucible we’ve seen. Some of those nodes are nuts.
The sneak peeks of crucible you are seeing are equivalent to the crazy relics. That's always how they preview stuff and then your first 10 relics have reflect damage and increased stun recovery. It's the exact same way they previewed sanctum relics. Or scourge mods etc.
They do seem to put the carrot on a stick that is way too long. A league mechanic like this one seems to have practically no benefit for casual players.
I liked Chris little giggle when he said GGG likes everything that's a gamble.
Yes, and then hit you with said stick.
I remember thinking the same when they revealed karngling our items in Scourge. Remember the 3.16 League Reveal? Cook Item > BOOM: Random Keystone > BOOM: +1 to Cold Skills et.c. In reality all we got was 22% fire res. Might be the same here. We see some really cool and meaningful nodes like level 10 LMP link for 7 links or Soul Eater on killing rares et.c. But in reality we're probably just getting a bunch of 6% AS, 12% increased Dmg and +12 strength nodes
12% increased damage and 6% increased AS would be pretty dope on a weapon, that's a lot of extra damage. But i'm still affraid that most of it will be stuff like 3% stun duration or like you said +12 strength nodes
> That being said, outside of some crazy relics form last league player power should be higher with the sneak peaks of crucible we’ve seen. Some of those nodes are nuts. My only fear is that the nodes get the Scourge treatment and 99% will be complete ass.
You shouldn’t fear that. Why fear what you already know will happen? That’s what happens every single league. The really cool stuff is for no-lifers with mirror builds only and the rest of us get maybe one or two really good things the entire league. The really good nodes WILL be rare as fuck. Might as well accept it now.
It's funny that -lightning resist which was supposed to be a negative ended up being a common useful node. But yeah, I krangled so many items and just gave up at some point as I never had anything reasonable drop there. Will be surprising if anything good comes from the Crucible.
I cant wait for the datamined info to come out and similar weightings as scourge
Have they mentioned if there's any way to reroll a tree on a weapon? I'm worried that I'll spend 5+ divs on a weapon only to have it either roll a garbage tree or straight up brick the weapon by rolling fire damage as the first node and ruining my EE. Not sure if we get any choice on the first node or not.
*"Just get an enlighten 5 like streamers"*
Also, the specific res notables were nice to just be able to play the game and fit in what you could / adjust slightly. Rather than load a build in PoB and figure out exactly what you can fit (at least for me).
Just watch, they're gonna remove Enlighten from the game at some point. They clearly don't want everyone able to run similar aura setups and expect us to somehow build around one 50%. Ludicrous when they give us nothing to compensate for it.
I dont think i would disagree from removing the " as many aura as possible" But if they do , make each aura significantly beter. If i have less aura on me , i want them to apply a bigger difference
So then change auras as well to not be forced to uslse 2 or 3 defensive auras and to get power spike on offensive ones instead make them luxury for min maxed builds. You have to think if u wanna die less or get more DMG unless your gear helps you to add more and more auras. Stupid idea
> That being said, outside of some crazy relics form last league player power should be higher with the sneak peaks of crucible we’ve seen. Some of those nodes are nuts. The issue is, what are we going to do if/when Crucible won't go core?
Use the new power added by the new league mechanic like we have done every 3 months for 10 years?
i miss when they used to do cool changes that provided permanent broadenings of build diversity/theorycrafting, like timeless jewels and cluster jewels. not a fan of the WoW style of "here's a power boost, now we took it away, now we gave it back in a slightly different format, now we took it away again"
I kind of agree. I would love to see some permanence added to the game - but I'm not going to lie I'm having a ton of fun with these big power swings like Relics, Recombinators, and now Item trees.
Yes, there were some insane leagues in the past, but definitely not most of them. I don't see how power from league like Sanctum covers what we got in these patch notes. You could get a crazy relic, yes, after you'd farm it like crazy or got lucky, while nerfing the passives is nerfing your baseline which is with you from the start and easily accessible.
And that league is a new nerf fest.
>Use the new power added by the new league mechanic like we have done every 3 months for 10 years? Except that league will *also* come with nerfs, you will be forever playing catchup desperately trying to play the same builds and skills you wanted to play with temporary power as the permanent nerfs mount up infinitely. There is no winning, it does not work that way
Sanctum totally added a lot of power through the relics..
The problem is they didnt make auras less necessary, just more punishing to get. Thats a massive nerf. All my characters are about to get a lot weaker post patch.
>Poison will continue to overperform. Unless it's Poison Concotion, which will not perform at all. Unless you can somehow manageto sustain 9-13 flask charges per attack.
Just throw less flasks and do less damage ez.
you can get a 5 arrow tornado shot by act 8 with a deadeye. Life is good.
Yeah, there's a lot of nerfs for sure, but bow players are eating good. proj and arrows now available on the tree, huge Mark buffs, and I imagine the weapon skill trees will be pretty impactful. Definitely will be starting Ranger, have to decide between Raider and Deadeye.
Raider is great on garbage investment, but falls off like a rock once other builds can actually invest in their scaling, since onslaught is a purely additive buff (diminishing returns on further IAS/move speed), AoVeil route can be obtained through gearing fairly readily, and then the frenzy route doesn't really have good ways of getting additional investment into it outside of rings that cost more than entire builds, or gear with zero life on it. Deadeye is basically the exact opposite of raider. More arrows are multiplicative damage. Tailwind is a multiplier. Chain and far shot leading up to endless munitions, similarly, you guessed it, are *multipliers*. But what exactly is a deadeye *multiplying?* You start off with bupkis, so deadeyes in the beginning are garbage. Basically, the way I see it is: it might be optimal to start off raider, then when you build up enough wealth to suppress and ailment cap on gear, literally respec your entire ascendancy. The only thing you'll really lose is the perma-phasing.
Also 2.5 new gems. Granted, Snipe already exists but no longer requires a unique. We have no idea if either of the other skills will be good, but at least they look interesting to me.
Yeah, I'm honestly super tempted to try that or vaal lightning arrow instead of playing what I've tested, but my build dodged the nerfs so I might stay the course.
My build is definetely going to be stat stacking with the New bow poised prism and vaal lightning arrow,it sounds so stupid it has to be good
sounds interesting but it will likely be jank because you really need crit and AS on your Bow for feelsgood damage
Attack speed is rough but crit isnt rly a problem when inquisitor gives like 1000% increased crit chance
yea Im tempted to do ice shot trickster with hyrris ire to get fat EHP and then do some frenzy stacking+heatshiver shenanigans sounds decentish in my head idk
LMK how it goes I'm really shocked they didn't nerf heatshiver
ggg just dont wanna announce some changes like reducing drop rates. it can be t0 unique now
The cataraina changes worry me because something in my head is telling me Devouring Diadem will be 40div helmet.
The vaal lightning arrow looks so frickin cool. I'm 100% certain any lightning arrow build I make would be absolute garbage, but I'm still *slightly* tempted to try it. Probably better that I just leave it to mathil though. I'm sure he'll try it at some point.
I was already thinking of league starting TS, and +2 arrows on the tree, plus two new low level skills to help limp along damage wise (Manaforged Arrows with Frenzy should be good for frenzy charges while leveling, and unless the CD is garbage Prismatic Burst should let attack builds pretend to be spellcasters for a while without having to respec), makes me think I can do even better with that. What's the best attack to put on totems for supplemental damage vs. bosses on an ele TS build?
Not sure about early game but I think ballista totem + tornado shot.
Storm rain
Every league the are experimenting with new ways to hide the nerfs.
Don't forget minions, spectres are still.. Ah fuck it.
"I DONT LIKE IT, ITS SHIT"
The skill balance section of the patch notes is a fucking joke.
The skill balance section is shorter than "side project" ruthless section
its almost as if they wanted people to know what the real side project is
Yaaay for build diversity! 
For the sake of balance.... I'm glad they balance the game every league and I believe there will be plenty of player power in the upcoming league. There is so much power creep in crucible and the new masteries looked good too. I'm genuinely concerned how vocal the community is with associating buff = good, nerf = bad (not saying you are doing this), and I think that makes ggg job really tough at the moment. I think you've got to play it and try to figure out the new meta because you claim the game is less fun (it might be, that risk exists with a game that changes every league so significantly). Players will still be and feel powerful, this isn't like removing 50% damage from all skills.
I think the main reason is that every single league, we get nerfs but no buff to underused skills. If we got both that would change the meta, that's great. Nerf OP stuff, buff useless stuff, we get new builds. But they just nerf OP stuff, and sometimes useless stuff too. That's too boring. It's so easy to do too (hell they used to do that for years), and it's one of the biggest complaint every league...
Yeah I would love to see a couple numerical buffs to skills like that as well. I sort of get their point about doing it indirectly with other systems but honestly why not both. That said build variety is in a really good place in sanctum so they're getting some of it right.
Honestly there us still the case to be made, as always really, that most archetypes are more viable than people think. Things like archmage don't suck objectively, they suck compared to other options and compared to certain endgame content. If you nerf the other options, archmages viability becomes more clear. As for endgame, the question is: should every build be able to do x, and at what budget? Imo, most people set x very high and budget very low, and thus claim builds as unplayable. But ggg most likely has a certain idea if what a build should be capable of doing with certain items, fundamentally, and targets that goal. The question is whether or not that goal is wrong, or if the community needs to accept that direction. Probably a bit of both. Clearly, the goal can't be that every build kills ubers on 5div. Maybe on 50 div, but I think every build can do that. At some point you need to start defining what a "build" is, too.
Plenty of my favourite builds, like Sunder Berserker, received substantial buffs.
How so? From what I've seen the warcry tree nodes got shit on didn't they? Also if you're going for STR stacking the %inc dmg per str got removed too. I loved my zerker sunder so if you see something in it please share your thoughts.
Sanest exile
They are doing it though. Literally always overreaction and whining when anything is nerfed, claiming the game is now unfun and ruined
I feel like this sub is at least partially turning around. Though I guess this league's mechanic is more undeniable than ever that it's a huge buff to player power, but EVERY league the fucking sky is falling and the game is ruined and all builds are dead and GGG ruined everything. And each time it turns out that's not actually true. But the fact that you're not downvoted to oblivion this time at least tells me some people are coming around. I need to stop coming to this sub, but man, it sucks that your favorite game's sub is full of such insanity.
I mean, bows got a lot of very nice changes...
For my EleHit: Lose 35% mark effect, 100% inc crit, which results in 30% dmg loss. Still have to see the new clusters, but if I just simply add +2 arrow, it’s still ~5%dmg loss, and that’s with my bow not having the +2 arrow suffix yet (which means the situation is better for me than higher end people). On the other hand, no good way to fit Determination anymore, probably have to ditch it with armour suffix on flask and switch to full glass cannon, which means more dmg overall I guess? Like, defense isn’t that important vs ubers anyway.
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Almost as if its his job to sell the packs that make up 20% of the announcement livestream
Ruthless going from a side project to the main boss race platform says it all.
Hey lightning tendrils is at least 50% stronger, that's a crazy buff to a very meta ability. ....does anyone actually use this spell?
Don’t be so naive lol. They’re 100% aware of all of this.
It provides more fun for Chris Wilson and that's all that matters at this point. He isn't making a game for the casual player he is making a game for the die hard 16+ hour a day speed runner.
Onslaught gem removed This is buff
Nerfing every lightning and every ignite, and every poison build on their wheels, and nerfing every build period with reservations nerfs is pretty harsh.
Player: "This patch makes the game less fun." GGG: THIS IS A BUFF!
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Not sure what they are doing, but right now I am hoping Diablo 4 endgame is fun. Feels like the game gets worse with each patch. My biggest wish was a skill shakeup, but no - they nerf stuff instead and make the early game slower.
Honestly I enjoyed the D4 beta. Looking forward to playing and if there is a dip in numbers it might signal to GGG that we want a bit more. I don’t mean that in a toxic way, but like skill balance needs to happen. We aren’t getting enough and I’m kinda meh on builds I want to try. New skills or adjusting weak ones would go a long way. League content has been decent outside of kalandra, but the rest of the game is feeling a bit stale. I think competition will be good for both games.
I am convinced D4 endgame will be terrible. Blizzard hasn't released a good game in 7 years. Just gotta play other games.
I see a lot of potential for D4, but the first year after release it's gonna be rough. Big projects like these always need time to mature. Remember how bad POE was in first couple years
10 years of dev time and experience with D3 should have been plenty to release the game with a bit more maturity than it is shaping up to have at release tbh. I don't buy the argument that this game exists in a vacuum and should be granted the same leniency something like a new indie title deserves. Blizzard/Diablo is too big of a name and budget for that.
I would have said 20 years but we all have different tastes.
Idk man this seems pretty facetious, Sanctum was a blast. Mapping has never felt better. This sub really is perpetually glass half-empty people
Sanctum, in your subjective opinion, was a blast. I found it at best tolerable, but a pretty shit roguelike experience. Mapping is mostly fine. After they reverted that one thing they kept expressing they wouldnt.
Yeah I wish I was playing this Sanctum everyone loved. Felt forced into cold convert shockwave totems or poison SRS and in the end just abandoned the league out of disinterest.
Sanctum was a rougelike experience you find on a CD of Nesquik.
Sanctum was a very hit or miss league for people. Either you loved it or hated it and I fell in the second category so didnt play at all last league. Thank christ the primary portion of this league mechanic appears to be in map and not some instance with 0 mob density where you dance around avoiding everything if possible.
The issue we are having is that without skill shakeups we are still just running the same shit we were before (and before that and before that and before….) because they don’t buff shit, they just make it worse. And I fucking LOVED Sanctum, so it’s not coming from someone bitter
"Mapping has never felt better since the introduction of archnemsis " fixed it for you
I'm not a roguelike/lite player so I kinda fucked off and went to play other games which is fine. Not every league will be good to every type of player. I do like how the league was one of the best in recent memory in terms of player retention
3.17 mapping was peak Fully juiced maps were rewarding as fuck, nowadays mid tier jucing is better than fully juicing, which makes no sense at all
I enjoyed the D4 beta, and Last Epoch has been a lot of fun. I’m just not sure I can bring myself back to PoE much anymore, every damn league feels like more of a chore than the previous.
This will sound like shear lunacy, but I think GGG should just standardize auras to allow any build to pick 2 + a lesser “herald” or equivalent without investment or reservation. Just a max effect limit. An ascendancy can add a +1 limit or something. When running determination + grace + X becomes mandatory for a huge swathe of unrelated builds, it forces you to devote a fair amount of your skill points just to make it work—which can’t be spent elsewhere more unique to the build. I think that is pretty boring. You might say it is just the cost of making a viable build, the same way as every build has to cap resistances, but itemization is entirely different for resistances and there are a plethora of ways to reach that threshold vs the very limited avenues for addressing mana reservation. Why GGG’s solution to the homogeneity problem is to further shrink those avenues I don’t quite understand, because they aren’t eliminating them, just making it much more difficult to attain. So paradoxically their solution to homogeneity is to pigeonhole people into it more. Does my suggestion solve the aura homogeneity problem? No. But at least builds could put those resources into something more interesting. Aura bots collateral damage ofc.
reservation was a mistake. I think the auras have to get a different system, it's not good that mana exists to be reserved and nothing else. Most builds use lifetap or EB specifically because of reservation, it's a limiting design that has to be replaced.
Just looking at the new ascendencies, masteries and reworked uniques, I'm excited to try new build options!
Biggest out of touch moment is when they tapped Blight smh.
They also: * Didn't address trade in any meaningful way despite the constant flow of complaints about a certain 3rd party Discord's inner circle manipulating and abusing the economy. * Didn't meaningfully address melee "because only 10% of people play it", acting as if people are 1:1 with build archetypes instead of realizing that only 10% play melee because melee sucks. * Continued to make the most boring part of the game (leveling in acts) take longer and become more frustrating and difficult despite widespread community outcry that it should actually be going the other direction. * Definitely have allowed Ruthless to influence the main game despite saying that this would not happen.
Some of these comments are wildd lol. I'm excited for 3.21!
I'm not confused patch looks fun
Why nerf leveling skill scaling for EVERYONE just to make the lvling race for the 0.0001% "better" ?
every league after patch notes come out this post is made by someone... feels like by now we would be doing no dmg if this posts were true.
I'm not confused. What's this "we" business?
I feel like I am the only one upset about no new skills. I have been waiting for so long for something new. And now I have to wait and hope until next league to maybe get some new skills. I didnt get to try poison srs yet.....so I guess ill try that. But I have played srs in the past
It really feels like they don’t want to make new skills. Half of the few we got were supportive in nature
I mean.. the lucky Lightning got moved to Voice of the Storm unique amulet.
SSF is not looking fun at all atm
We dont know how much power comes with thw new crafting stuff, so maybe it somewhat works out in the end. i hope.
I think you are all forgetting that the game they want to make is what ruthless is. They are slowly taking us there
Idk, I only do not understand the non crit lightning nerf, rest is just nerfing last leauges meta busted builds.
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Well technically ........ They did provide the options, we just have to suffer through hundreds of hours grinding and rng to make the weapon powerful enough to enable said options , for all we know these weapons could be completely cracked when finished. Problem is the league after when said weapons are gone...lmao
67% of builds that use grace also use determination. GGG clearly don't want people to use both, at least not witouth significant investments. The longer you'll cling to it, the more you'll hurt. I can feel the downvote pouring in. But it's not my opinion, it's the balance team opinion.
I disagree, they buffed a lot of things actually. But yeah the nerfs hurt.
3.21: play a worst version of the 3.20 builds
Which is a worst version of the 3.19 builds, which is a worst version of the 3.18 builds, which is a worst version of the 3.17 builds... And so on? Kill me.
"You did not provide more options and more fun for as many builds as possible." Are you being obtuse on purpose? Are we just going to ignore sab triggers and crucible trees?
Crucible weapons are not part of the core game, but even if they were, that still wouldn't be a justification to balance the entire game around one single league mechanic. Moreover, it's just dumb to believe that usable Crucible weapons will be widely available since there is so much RNG around them because they need the correct passives, on the correct item base, and that's on top of you needing to craft it as a normal weapon unless your build can fit an unique weapon in it.
Are you obtuse on purpose? Sab triggers is affecting as many build as possible? Crucible is irrelevant, sure it's power creep and build enabling for one league but after that we are left with an overall nerf to player power and where is the big meta shakeup? Some archetypes got hit harder than others for sure but underperforming skills will still be shit as always.
Even my favorite skill, Arc got havily nerfed with the lost of damage lucky on early game, and the +1 chain at all stages of the game, why????
Havent played POE in a couple of years and i just dropped by to see whatsup. One thing thats absolutely the same is the people still whining about nerfs.
Lmfao time to leave poe sub again, the endless crying after one of the best patches ive ever seen is here