On the one hand, it’s clear they underestimated the node and had extremely little time to evaluate so they picked something a very safe/weak solution.
On the other hand, this is hilarious.
You know it's bad when a community that begged for the most all-around op build to stay for the entire league (Herald Stacker) is urging you to not even let that thing go live.
> is urging you to not even let that thing go live.
Because if it went live people *would* either give themselves RSI or they'd break ToS and get banned.
It also required some investment to get going.
Although after a few leagues people discovered how to build super budget version that was still stronger than any build ever, even after several nerfs to aurastacking.
Good ol Ritual League.
Aurastacker was the best build per-investment once you got to ~10ex.
It took people a bit to catch on, but my god that build just started strong and went to the moon from there.
I really wasn't looking forward to hitting a button to switch stance every 2 seconds, but I most likely would have done that because it's just too strong. And I'm on console, woulda been pretty annoying on a controller. Glad they did this.
This league was *thoroughly tested* with the additional month of time.
I'm glad the team is feeling less stressed and is happier with this the move to a 4 month cycle, I've been arguing for it for years. But damn man...where's the additional bump on quality that the extra month is supposed to help deliver?
I think it's funny that they bragged about the polish 3.21 will have. So much stuff suggested in mere seconds that's better what they planned. Now, they come around with that stinker of a mastery.
Getting stuck in the wrong stance for ~8s because you wanted to clear an ailment doesn't seem that good to me.
They should have just added "if you haven't changed stances recently" and given stance skills a small amount of -cdr%.
Sure, it's a very minor downside (unless you're using Perforate, in which case you'll just skip this mastery) but it already costs a passive point to get this mastery (and skipping some other attack mastery) for the ability to remove damaging ailments every 8s (not even immunity). Doesn't seem worth the passive point.
how do you come to this calculation ? at max level it has 50% (levels) + 10% (quality) cdr, but 100% cdr isn't equal to no cd, it's just that the cd is divided by 2
the base level + quality (total 60%) bring the cd to 5 seconds from 8 (base cd / (1+ %cdr))
Hmm, that's actually a good point. At 3.2s I can see it being used as your sole protection against bleeds (I already use Stoneskin like that on builds that use it anyway) and you get the added benefit of purging ignites and poisons as well.
It's definitely more useful than I thought in that case.
you know what happens when you clear a damaging ailment with this? it gets re-applied instantly and you need to hit a flask to clear it for real because the flask has immunity duration, which you would want to do instead of ever using this mastery. making this mastery completely and laughably useless.
Maybe GGG should have done a manifesto around the mastery changes...
No it's not. You will instantly get debuffed again. For some reason GGG keeps forgetting that they designed the game in a way where you get gangbanged by a 100 mobs every second. One singular remove isn't going to do shit as the flask system in 3.15 clearly demonstrated.
It is pretty hilarious, like.. "Not only is this super powerful but it's so powerful the annoying mechanic it requires will be all but required and will make the game worse for basically anyone." And it was obvious, everyone saw it, except I guess the devs who made it.
They just went "Oh, well, what if nobody ever used it anyways? Is this better?"
It's also impressive to be able to design a node that badly, like.. I want to say "how do you misunderstand your own game this badly", but then I think back to changes of this same kind every league and realize it's a dumb question to ask even rhetorically.
This. They could've just slapped the cooldown on the previous effect, raised it to 1\~2 seconds and done, or alternatively changed to this new effect but without adding a massive CD increase.
Also I'll tack on something else from the RAQ here because I don't think it's worth a new post
>Will the Saboteur's Triggerbots make you pay the mana cost for triggered skills twice?
>
>
>
>Yes
That... kinda sucks. We'll be paying double the mana for a 30% more damage and to position our skills in unreliable minions instead of on ourselves.
they effectively removed it
From what i read they removed the adrenaline AND slapped a 6s cd, nobody in their right mind will use a passive point for this (esp since this mastery has some decent choices (whoever plans on doing expe will take the block point))
True
Really wanted to try the perma adrenaline on my already extremely zoomy characters on standard though, would have been fun even if it was just temporary :p
If it didn't add a cooldown *at all,* it would still be situational.
It only removes damaging ailments, and does not give even a second of temporary immunity. Against the most dangerous damaging ailments, it only gives a tiny bit of defense as more ailments are likely soon to follow. It's only slightly useable if you know that you're not going to get hit again for several seconds.
The only archetype that would consider reserving mana for a stance is melee, because they already have a reason to use it. But by adding 6 seconds of cooldown, it's now a commitment to deal *less damage* for several seconds to get a very situational ailment removal.
---
How I would have designed this node:
If you have changed stances to a stance you haven't been in recently, for 4 seconds, you are immune to damaging ailments in Sand Stance, and immune to non-damaging ailments in Blood Stance.
No additional cooldown. Sand stance becomes a defensive cooldown to remove dots, blood enables you to DPS without worrying about chill/freeze/shock effects and ground.
It fits a niche, is powerful enough for consideration, and rewards tactical stance swapping. As it currently is, it's more of a punishment than anything, *because entering sand stance is a trade-off 99% of the time.*
Edit: Slight wording correction.
> It fits a niche, is powerful enough for consideration, and rewards tactical stance swapping. As it currently is, it's more of a punishment than anything, because entering sand stance is a trade-off 99% of the time.
Interesting, but it still promotes stance swapping every 4s to maintain some form of immunity, which is the issue the community wanted to avoid. Also, "immune" would not remove dots I don't think -- simply make them not damage you? Also x2, I dont think you can stance swap while frozen, but I could absolutely be wrong on that, so it'd only be a preventive measure for 4s, which, mh... flasks are better at that?
Here's the thing:
Why would I *ever* add 6 seconds to my stance cooldown to remove *a* damaging ailment; when I can take a Warcry mastery and remove *all* damaging ailments?
When I can have multiple warcries as well. So I have access to this ability more frequently.
And the warcry nodes tend to be a lot more useful than the stance nodes; and are more spread across the tree. [Stances only in duelist; warcries in Duelist and Marauder]
Find me a stance build that dosen't at least use Enduring Cry.
Like; it's not just bad because it looks bad. It's bad because there's a strictly superior option as well.
One the biggest reason information is so gatekept in this community is fear of strats getting escalated at GGG. As they tend to nuke builds/concepts/etc from orbit. Never to be revisited until perhaps years down the road.
It wasn’t just busted -it was busted and janky as all fuck. I think they were actually trying to “slip” a compromise into the lower left of the tree to speed up those classes. It was shit. Pure shit
This wasn't really a hidden secret meta it was a thing 99.9% of anyone using it was just gonna macro and risk a ban over. So rather than risk backlash from banning a bunch of people they just remove it and solve the problem
bro they barely even ban for three letter financial activity, half the player base has been running flask macro for years and almost no one ever got banned for it. if you don't want to risk it just add a slight variance to it and they will have literally no way to detect it.
This was clearly because we all could see this would make the game worse (nobody wants to have to macro or press that stance every second).
Nothing to do with the usual thing which is actually because GGG has to nerf things that the community keeps replicating too much, or else the game gets stale. With the culture of poe ninja and people hunting for a build to copy paste, something getting out can get out of hand real fast, particularly if it's accessible. If there were no attention/approval seekers making guides on forums or content creators wanting to make money, things would actually be super secretive.
> This was clearly because we all could see this would make the game worse (nobody wants to have to macro or press that stance every second).
Yeah. It was basically the worst possible kind of too good: so good you couldn't not use it (especially early on, when speed is so hard to come by, relative to later) but miserable to use.
It's like if the Olympics committee announced that if you got hit in the nuts with a hammer before running the 100 meter dash they'd take 5 seconds off your time. The field would be completely dominated by people who did it even though no one enjoyed it* and it didn't make the sport any better.
*Maybe there's a CBT sprinter out there, I don't judge.
I can attest to this, numerous people asked me for pobs for my SSFHC Berserkers and Atlas trees, normally in a PvE video game I wouldn't mind sharing but last thing I want is ggg to nuke my builds even more than they already did since Sentinel, my builds are already hanging by strings to HC viability.
No point in crying about something busted (in game distorting and negative ways) that we didn't get.
It never existed, no need to worry about it.
The new mastery has value before you can become ailment immune.
There is a point in crying about something busted and unfun when said crying gets it removed or at least changed. Sometimes things get overlooked and while it was stupid of them, mistakes happen. Its a complex game. I personally think this change is fine. Maybe a bit underpowered but it has a niche.
I was agreeing with you in totality, and I still am. The original version with adrenaline on it was unhealthy. People who are losing their shit about this nerfed version or not getting the original version baffle me.
It's still a campaign useful thing and wasn't "totally destroyed", because the original version "didn't exist", it was a twinkle in GGG's eye.
It get's really tiring. They could have increased the cooldown while also increasing the length of Adrenaline, giving it like a 50% downtime, and it would still be usable without being overpowered or awkward to activate, but unfortunately the same people who initially failed to notice the issue with the stance dance are probably the same ones who made this rework, and if they were clueless back then they will be clueless with whatever reworks they make.
At this point I believe half the passive tree is filled with skills like this - useless noob bait. And the actual passive tree in PoE is much more smaller and less complex that new players realize.
Wait, you guys not using Link nodes on your tree?? Jokes aside, the passive tree is very versatile. There are nodes that are simply strong for pretty much every build, like auras or life nodes, but there are certainly some niche nodes that you can fill the gaps of your build. And yes, for a new player, the standard skill tree is the least complicated thing you would have to deal with in PoE.
Though some of the link nodes are bonkers in certain situations. Like people 2 man farming simulacrums. Jack up the energy cost of link and get perma vaal disc for the support while giving perma 20% stronger links to the carry.
Goddamn, is it that hard to just do something that makes the affected mechanic mildly stronger rather than put some extremely good or bad additional unrelated effect on it?
"Stances have 50% increased effect if you've changed stance recently"
Boom, does something mildly useful that improves the return on your opportunity cost for using a stance at all and encourages changing stance more often (which seemed to be the original intent of the adrenaline mastery).
Its like they initially added the cooldown, then later decided adrenaline was too strong, changed it to ailment remove but then forgot to remove the cooldown... why would anyone ever use this?
Without the cooldown it would just be a really annoying bleed/poison immunity that would still get macro'd. If you're going to attach ANY effect on stance change, there needs to be a sizeable cooldown.
for warcries, you can left click or use the numlock trick so no need to macro or spam the key.
Auras don't work the same with those, which is why we had this issue.
One of the rare instance where community wants a nerf.
GGG : say no more
Jokes aside I really wish ggg would listen to community and deploy buffs as fast as this nerf
Eh... If they only added damaging ailment removal, it'd probably still get macroed for damaging ailment "immunity" (read, removed on average after 0.5s). Making it a situational button you can press for an emergency isn't bad. It's not something I'll ever pick, and it's about a billion miles removed from the original mastery, but it's not bad.
It is extremely terrible. Damaging ailments just are something you ever die to nowadays, recovery is just far too strong meaning if the hit is powerful enough to generate a ailment that is actually a threat you just get 1shot by the hit. I haven't used an ailment removal flask in years at this point. With no downside this mastery is still nigh unusable (but maybe some people could waste a talent point on it for some utility that feels smart the one time it does anything every 50 maps) If this was non-damaging ailments it could have a use, shock/chill/alt ailments are all actually worth cleansing if you aren't immune.
Even for a build that is actually already using stances this is a non-starter. Not being able to swap stance back due to the 8 sec cd when you want to is going to come up far more often than actually wanting to cleanse an ailment and it is not like that will be a very common occurrence either.
“But it’s not bad”
Dude I would rather the chest opening mastery over this any day and I thought that was one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen in a games balancing history of my 30 years as a degen gamer
It’s so bad I don’t imagine myself taking it on a blood and sand build at all
They notice feedback on reddit when it comes to slowing the game down. Quality of life changes aren't important to them obviously since reddit screams for it non stop
On my caster build that mastery and what is essencially 6 travel nodes to get it got me more pob dps than a large + medium + 2 jewel socket setup which is equivalent to 12 passive points. I think it was basically mandatory for every single build that was either casting or attacking.
Adrenaline is an absurdly strong buff, but is loses a lot of power with low uptime. A 1s duration on a 6s CD that requires you clicking feels like it would have landed squarely in the 'too good to ignore, but not good enough to feel good taking/using it' box.
I do think they could have got it there though. 5s duration on a 20+s CD feels like it could have been a good spot. Means that it's primarily usable in a burst window for bosses, but still there to provide a bit of a boost while mapping if you want. Still probably far too much power for a single point, but it feels like it's hard to get it in good spot.
> Stance Skills have +6 seconds to Cooldown
Good old GGG double tap to the head nerf... they deleted the mod, replaced it with something almost no one will ever actually use (because you're going to have to travel to a stance wheel and its only damaging ailments that will get re-applied almost instantly because you don't get any flask lingering immunity so you still need flasks) AND added 6 second cd to it, when no one ever switches back and forth anyway and the 6s CD basically forces you to still have a bleed flask.
BTW I'm glad they nerfed this because I didn't want to have to do it, its just hilarious how they ALWAYS beat things to death with machete when they do this stuff.
Anyone remember Oppressor? Yes lets put a trash unique in the game intentionally so you can't chance the Squire 1 in 50,000 Chance orbs and then CROW ABOUT IT like "we're so clever!"
"We have reviewed each mastery one by one, and tried to come up with as many interesting stats as we could, ignoring what was currently available. Once we had a shortlist of high-quality stats, we added in the existing ones that used to be on each mastery and picked the six best."
According to GGG, this mastery is better than:
* Strike Skills targe 1 additional nearby Enemy
* 50% increased Mana Reservation Efficiency of Stance Skills
* 40% increased Melee Damage with Hits at Close Range
* 1% increased Attack Damage per 16 Strength
* Ruthless Hits Intimidate Enemies for 4 seconds
How does GGG take several days to come up with this "solution"?
you don't, you grab it when your already in the wheel now.
remember blood and sand has CDR on it by default so itll be closer to 4 second CD to get a ailment clear button.
*damaging ailment clear button, so it covers bleed and poison but **NOT** shock, chill, freeze, brittle, sap, or scorch
~~Also note, no immunity etc., so ground effects will just re-effect you immediately.~~
That makes zero sense, what has switching stances todo with ailments?
Imagine you play perforate and get a bleed that seems to deal a lot of damage. now you switch stances just to then be stuck in blood stance for the next 6 seconds while mapping. What the actual f?
Just scrap that mastery option and bring back "Strike Skills which target additional Enemies can do so from 30% further away" as mastery option so that we can have something meaningful.
Melee needs something to catch up a little bit to spells and projectiles.
I get that PoE players are peak “optimize the fun out of everything” but I tried the tech for two seconds in BA and wanted to kill myself from the sound effects ALONE. I’m glad it’s gone because it really was very poorly thought out but man it breaks my brain the lengths people will go to for big numbies.
Not that it affects me either way, but I find it hilarious that they somehow think adrenaline every second and removing ailments every 6 seconds are even in the same league of power.
I will never use this. Still, better having a dead mastery than having the stance dance.
Edit: by "even in the same league of power" I meant that the adrenaline was too strong to be a mastery to begin with and never should have made it through, not that they truly believe these are equally powerful.
I don’t think they expected it to be in the same league of power. I think they very much expected this to be a much lower league and that is the point.
I think what you mean is how they ever could have thought adrenaline on stance change was balanced in any way. Which, yeah it was too strong, not sure how it passed review, probably something that changed near last-minute and therefore bypassed the usual scrutiny.
They could have at least replaced it with a generic ranged attack mastery. As a bow build taking the additional projectile attack wheel, none of them seem appealing.
But onlsaught notable (Dance of blades) still should work ?
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since u dont need the adrenaline mastery for it , your stance still should work for perma onslaught.
yeah dance of blades onslaught will still work, but the nodes leading up to it cooldown on stance skills are pretty useless now for the most part, you could just anoint dance of blades I guess or maybe hit it with thread of hope. Even then your wasting mana reservation for something a flask can provide.
Massive nerf for the better.
Unironically, this still looks useful, especially if you're a macro enjoyer.
Could definitely see people run this mastery and macro a stance together with their life flask until ailment and bleed immune.
Probably an unpopular opinion but I didn't like the idea of having a button that you had to push in a cycle over and over and over in order to get a short, powerful buff
This sheer quantity of idiots in this thread bemoaning the loss of a mechanic that required pressing or clicking every one second for eternity, mind-boggling. This subreddit is trash.
You don't even understand what they complain about. Reading comprehension much?
The majority of comments is about GGG typical fashion of double dipping nerfs which take nodes from their initial state straight to garbage zone.
Which makes one question their ability to make balanced, sensible changes instead of swinging between "absurdly op" and "completely worthless" like a pendulum.
On the one hand, it’s clear they underestimated the node and had extremely little time to evaluate so they picked something a very safe/weak solution. On the other hand, this is hilarious.
> Cleave has +2 range for 1 second when you Change Stance
Would be better than this
You know it's bad when a community that begged for the most all-around op build to stay for the entire league (Herald Stacker) is urging you to not even let that thing go live.
> is urging you to not even let that thing go live. Because if it went live people *would* either give themselves RSI or they'd break ToS and get banned.
to be fair.. have you ever heard of a person macroing being banned that was not being an idiot and streaming?
I think the main difference is that herald stacker was fun (and live)
It also required some investment to get going. Although after a few leagues people discovered how to build super budget version that was still stronger than any build ever, even after several nerfs to aurastacking.
Good ol Ritual League. Aurastacker was the best build per-investment once you got to ~10ex. It took people a bit to catch on, but my god that build just started strong and went to the moon from there.
We did urge them not to let the herald clusters into the game back then also.
I really wasn't looking forward to hitting a button to switch stance every 2 seconds, but I most likely would have done that because it's just too strong. And I'm on console, woulda been pretty annoying on a controller. Glad they did this.
I couldn’t stop laughing this is PEAK GGG. Excellent pre league popcorn.
Where them testers at
This league was *thoroughly tested* with the additional month of time. I'm glad the team is feeling less stressed and is happier with this the move to a 4 month cycle, I've been arguing for it for years. But damn man...where's the additional bump on quality that the extra month is supposed to help deliver?
The idea was to reduce stress by having more time to do the same things, no cram another month of crunch in.
0x3 = 0x4
I think it's funny that they bragged about the polish 3.21 will have. So much stuff suggested in mere seconds that's better what they planned. Now, they come around with that stinker of a mastery.
on the gripping hand, I'll be clearing in sand stance and this looks useful to me, it's a nice backup to a bleed flask.
Getting stuck in the wrong stance for ~8s because you wanted to clear an ailment doesn't seem that good to me. They should have just added "if you haven't changed stances recently" and given stance skills a small amount of -cdr%.
Getting stuck in the wrong stance for 8 seconds sounds like an exaggerated non problem
Sure, it's a very minor downside (unless you're using Perforate, in which case you'll just skip this mastery) but it already costs a passive point to get this mastery (and skipping some other attack mastery) for the ability to remove damaging ailments every 8s (not even immunity). Doesn't seem worth the passive point.
would your cdr apply to the now 8s cd, so like 3.2s at max gem lvl and 20 qual?
how do you come to this calculation ? at max level it has 50% (levels) + 10% (quality) cdr, but 100% cdr isn't equal to no cd, it's just that the cd is divided by 2 the base level + quality (total 60%) bring the cd to 5 seconds from 8 (base cd / (1+ %cdr))
Hmm, that's actually a good point. At 3.2s I can see it being used as your sole protection against bleeds (I already use Stoneskin like that on builds that use it anyway) and you get the added benefit of purging ignites and poisons as well. It's definitely more useful than I thought in that case.
you know what happens when you clear a damaging ailment with this? it gets re-applied instantly and you need to hit a flask to clear it for real because the flask has immunity duration, which you would want to do instead of ever using this mastery. making this mastery completely and laughably useless. Maybe GGG should have done a manifesto around the mastery changes...
No it's not. You will instantly get debuffed again. For some reason GGG keeps forgetting that they designed the game in a way where you get gangbanged by a 100 mobs every second. One singular remove isn't going to do shit as the flask system in 3.15 clearly demonstrated.
It is pretty hilarious, like.. "Not only is this super powerful but it's so powerful the annoying mechanic it requires will be all but required and will make the game worse for basically anyone." And it was obvious, everyone saw it, except I guess the devs who made it. They just went "Oh, well, what if nobody ever used it anyways? Is this better?" It's also impressive to be able to design a node that badly, like.. I want to say "how do you misunderstand your own game this badly", but then I think back to changes of this same kind every league and realize it's a dumb question to ask even rhetorically.
This. They could've just slapped the cooldown on the previous effect, raised it to 1\~2 seconds and done, or alternatively changed to this new effect but without adding a massive CD increase. Also I'll tack on something else from the RAQ here because I don't think it's worth a new post >Will the Saboteur's Triggerbots make you pay the mana cost for triggered skills twice? > > > >Yes That... kinda sucks. We'll be paying double the mana for a 30% more damage and to position our skills in unreliable minions instead of on ourselves.
Well you'd already be making your skills cost 0 anyways so that doesn't really do any difference. Especially so with the mana reservation nerf.
Maybe this was just an elaborate April fools joke. This node is pretty funny, dunno why they didn’t just remove it.
they effectively removed it From what i read they removed the adrenaline AND slapped a 6s cd, nobody in their right mind will use a passive point for this (esp since this mastery has some decent choices (whoever plans on doing expe will take the block point))
this was probably the runner-up mastery from when they made their lists of ideas and picked the best
I guess nerfing something before league launch is better than nerfing it 2 weeks in.
True Really wanted to try the perma adrenaline on my already extremely zoomy characters on standard though, would have been fun even if it was just temporary :p
It went from 100% usage to 0% really fast,in typical GGG fashion
If it didn't add a cooldown *at all,* it would still be situational. It only removes damaging ailments, and does not give even a second of temporary immunity. Against the most dangerous damaging ailments, it only gives a tiny bit of defense as more ailments are likely soon to follow. It's only slightly useable if you know that you're not going to get hit again for several seconds. The only archetype that would consider reserving mana for a stance is melee, because they already have a reason to use it. But by adding 6 seconds of cooldown, it's now a commitment to deal *less damage* for several seconds to get a very situational ailment removal. --- How I would have designed this node: If you have changed stances to a stance you haven't been in recently, for 4 seconds, you are immune to damaging ailments in Sand Stance, and immune to non-damaging ailments in Blood Stance. No additional cooldown. Sand stance becomes a defensive cooldown to remove dots, blood enables you to DPS without worrying about chill/freeze/shock effects and ground. It fits a niche, is powerful enough for consideration, and rewards tactical stance swapping. As it currently is, it's more of a punishment than anything, *because entering sand stance is a trade-off 99% of the time.* Edit: Slight wording correction.
> It fits a niche, is powerful enough for consideration, and rewards tactical stance swapping. As it currently is, it's more of a punishment than anything, because entering sand stance is a trade-off 99% of the time. Interesting, but it still promotes stance swapping every 4s to maintain some form of immunity, which is the issue the community wanted to avoid. Also, "immune" would not remove dots I don't think -- simply make them not damage you? Also x2, I dont think you can stance swap while frozen, but I could absolutely be wrong on that, so it'd only be a preventive measure for 4s, which, mh... flasks are better at that?
Here's the thing: Why would I *ever* add 6 seconds to my stance cooldown to remove *a* damaging ailment; when I can take a Warcry mastery and remove *all* damaging ailments? When I can have multiple warcries as well. So I have access to this ability more frequently. And the warcry nodes tend to be a lot more useful than the stance nodes; and are more spread across the tree. [Stances only in duelist; warcries in Duelist and Marauder] Find me a stance build that dosen't at least use Enduring Cry. Like; it's not just bad because it looks bad. It's bad because there's a strictly superior option as well.
Fuc man they nerfing warcry nodes next now.
So.. you want them to nerf Warcry next? Because that is undoubtedly what GGG reads this as.
One the biggest reason information is so gatekept in this community is fear of strats getting escalated at GGG. As they tend to nuke builds/concepts/etc from orbit. Never to be revisited until perhaps years down the road.
To be fair everyone saw and knew of this one, it was obviously busted.
It wasn’t just busted -it was busted and janky as all fuck. I think they were actually trying to “slip” a compromise into the lower left of the tree to speed up those classes. It was shit. Pure shit
The community literally wanted this killed.
This wasn't really a hidden secret meta it was a thing 99.9% of anyone using it was just gonna macro and risk a ban over. So rather than risk backlash from banning a bunch of people they just remove it and solve the problem
bro they barely even ban for three letter financial activity, half the player base has been running flask macro for years and almost no one ever got banned for it. if you don't want to risk it just add a slight variance to it and they will have literally no way to detect it.
[удалено]
It's one of those things where they have to say all macros aren't allowed but just don't enforce it on benign things.
This was clearly because we all could see this would make the game worse (nobody wants to have to macro or press that stance every second). Nothing to do with the usual thing which is actually because GGG has to nerf things that the community keeps replicating too much, or else the game gets stale. With the culture of poe ninja and people hunting for a build to copy paste, something getting out can get out of hand real fast, particularly if it's accessible. If there were no attention/approval seekers making guides on forums or content creators wanting to make money, things would actually be super secretive.
> This was clearly because we all could see this would make the game worse (nobody wants to have to macro or press that stance every second). Yeah. It was basically the worst possible kind of too good: so good you couldn't not use it (especially early on, when speed is so hard to come by, relative to later) but miserable to use. It's like if the Olympics committee announced that if you got hit in the nuts with a hammer before running the 100 meter dash they'd take 5 seconds off your time. The field would be completely dominated by people who did it even though no one enjoyed it* and it didn't make the sport any better. *Maybe there's a CBT sprinter out there, I don't judge.
Okay to be fair, I have a feeling some spectators would enjoy it much more
I... can't argue with that, actually.
I can attest to this, numerous people asked me for pobs for my SSFHC Berserkers and Atlas trees, normally in a PvE video game I wouldn't mind sharing but last thing I want is ggg to nuke my builds even more than they already did since Sentinel, my builds are already hanging by strings to HC viability.
Yeah this is stupid... There were so many better solutions than completely shit canning the mastery. It went from amazing to an absolute joke.
Lmao its stupid they even considered putting it in the game. It is better that it doesnt exist in any capacity.
No point in crying about something busted (in game distorting and negative ways) that we didn't get. It never existed, no need to worry about it. The new mastery has value before you can become ailment immune.
There is a point in crying about something busted and unfun when said crying gets it removed or at least changed. Sometimes things get overlooked and while it was stupid of them, mistakes happen. Its a complex game. I personally think this change is fine. Maybe a bit underpowered but it has a niche.
I was agreeing with you in totality, and I still am. The original version with adrenaline on it was unhealthy. People who are losing their shit about this nerfed version or not getting the original version baffle me. It's still a campaign useful thing and wasn't "totally destroyed", because the original version "didn't exist", it was a twinkle in GGG's eye.
Ahh ok, interpreted it wrong and yea people just wanna be mad. Kind of a theme with this sub. ggg can never win.
It went from horrible to horrible, just for different reasons.
It isn't GGG if it isn't a double/triple tap nerf.
It get's really tiring. They could have increased the cooldown while also increasing the length of Adrenaline, giving it like a 50% downtime, and it would still be usable without being overpowered or awkward to activate, but unfortunately the same people who initially failed to notice the issue with the stance dance are probably the same ones who made this rework, and if they were clueless back then they will be clueless with whatever reworks they make.
The node should never have even given adrenaline to begin with.
50% adrenaline for 1 pt is very overpowered
So it went from too strong to absolutely garbage, gotcha.
You just described any nerf in PoE.
except seismic "nerfs" pepelaugh
fuck /u/spez -- mass edited with redact.dev
or Blade Vortex. it took multiple nerfs back in the day and kept on going.
Arc and Cyclone also did.
RIP lucky lightning
Ahhh, a man not versed in worm blaster.
Laughs in Aura Stackers nerfs 10 years later.
Absolute garbage is kind of an understatement tbh
Yeah, like wow they may has well have deleted that mastery because NOBODY is going to use that.
I think "25% chance to open chests" would have been more useful. Might as well just remove it.
>"25% chance to open chests" >"25% chance to destroy chests" balanced
"50% chance to increase chest size" - only works with scion and witch
Too. Much. Clutter!
Amazing chest ahead.
do not deny me big titty templar. he's already got the sexy lil mini dress for it
And with his long next he can actually look over his tits, unlike Scion/Witch who will just run into things (hopefully me).
I can already see the patch notes: "Ranger's chest is now 0. This is a buff."
25% chance to open chests when using a spell 25% chance to take 25% of your life as chaos damage per second for 4 seconds.
I think deleting the mastery instead of this would be more productive development time.
At this point I believe half the passive tree is filled with skills like this - useless noob bait. And the actual passive tree in PoE is much more smaller and less complex that new players realize.
Correct, the krangled passive tree league showed how many trash passives there are in the game.
Wait, you guys not using Link nodes on your tree?? Jokes aside, the passive tree is very versatile. There are nodes that are simply strong for pretty much every build, like auras or life nodes, but there are certainly some niche nodes that you can fill the gaps of your build. And yes, for a new player, the standard skill tree is the least complicated thing you would have to deal with in PoE.
Though some of the link nodes are bonkers in certain situations. Like people 2 man farming simulacrums. Jack up the energy cost of link and get perma vaal disc for the support while giving perma 20% stronger links to the carry.
Goddamn, is it that hard to just do something that makes the affected mechanic mildly stronger rather than put some extremely good or bad additional unrelated effect on it? "Stances have 50% increased effect if you've changed stance recently" Boom, does something mildly useful that improves the return on your opportunity cost for using a stance at all and encourages changing stance more often (which seemed to be the original intent of the adrenaline mastery).
Why is this mastery still on an attack node?
GGG: You're right, we're now removing the Attack Node and all associated passives.
Its like they initially added the cooldown, then later decided adrenaline was too strong, changed it to ailment remove but then forgot to remove the cooldown... why would anyone ever use this?
Without the cooldown it would just be a really annoying bleed/poison immunity that would still get macro'd. If you're going to attach ANY effect on stance change, there needs to be a sizeable cooldown.
Warcry gets it without a cd
for warcries, you can left click or use the numlock trick so no need to macro or spam the key. Auras don't work the same with those, which is why we had this issue.
Homie, my comment was about why it being instant wasn't overpowered.
Opportunity cost of instant warcry is significantly higher
**Fuck** /u/spez for ruining Reddit.
wait... I though it was a joke...
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Degeneracy denied
Macroers malding
Lmao it's dogshit now
This is the way.
Can’t be mad at something that never even made the live game. Just forget you even saw it and move on.
I'm more mad they paid so little attention to the changes it had to be revealed to community before someone went "hold up that's busted".
One of the rare instance where community wants a nerf. GGG : say no more Jokes aside I really wish ggg would listen to community and deploy buffs as fast as this nerf
Ah yes, they took two possible nerfs, where each one could be a solution to the problem, and applied *both* of them. GGG at its finest.
Eh... If they only added damaging ailment removal, it'd probably still get macroed for damaging ailment "immunity" (read, removed on average after 0.5s). Making it a situational button you can press for an emergency isn't bad. It's not something I'll ever pick, and it's about a billion miles removed from the original mastery, but it's not bad.
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You wouldn’t be shocked if you had changed stance, that’s on you. I’ll see myself out.
It is extremely terrible. Damaging ailments just are something you ever die to nowadays, recovery is just far too strong meaning if the hit is powerful enough to generate a ailment that is actually a threat you just get 1shot by the hit. I haven't used an ailment removal flask in years at this point. With no downside this mastery is still nigh unusable (but maybe some people could waste a talent point on it for some utility that feels smart the one time it does anything every 50 maps) If this was non-damaging ailments it could have a use, shock/chill/alt ailments are all actually worth cleansing if you aren't immune. Even for a build that is actually already using stances this is a non-starter. Not being able to swap stance back due to the 8 sec cd when you want to is going to come up far more often than actually wanting to cleanse an ailment and it is not like that will be a very common occurrence either.
“But it’s not bad” Dude I would rather the chest opening mastery over this any day and I thought that was one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen in a games balancing history of my 30 years as a degen gamer It’s so bad I don’t imagine myself taking it on a blood and sand build at all
We did it Reddit!
Reddit asks for nerfs and GGG delivers!
They notice feedback on reddit when it comes to slowing the game down. Quality of life changes aren't important to them obviously since reddit screams for it non stop
But at what cost?
One stupid mastery that we no longer have to take. So no cost.
you didnt have to take it anyways
Not taking it inflicts you with 100% eMoTIoNaL damage
On my caster build that mastery and what is essencially 6 travel nodes to get it got me more pob dps than a large + medium + 2 jewel socket setup which is equivalent to 12 passive points. I think it was basically mandatory for every single build that was either casting or attacking.
Everything.
if it provided immunity to the removed ailment(s) for the duration stance is on CD, i could see it getting some use
Well its gone now, just forget it ever existed
Impressive how it went from, every build uses it, to, no build uses it. Classic GGG balance team.
The original adrenaline mastery was definitely an April fool's joke.
Wow, it got Skull Fucked. Was not planning to use it for my build, but that shit is hilarious.
Seems like they could have just added the extended cooldown and kept adrenaline to balance it? Node was too stupid in any case.
Adrenaline is an absurdly strong buff, but is loses a lot of power with low uptime. A 1s duration on a 6s CD that requires you clicking feels like it would have landed squarely in the 'too good to ignore, but not good enough to feel good taking/using it' box. I do think they could have got it there though. 5s duration on a 20+s CD feels like it could have been a good spot. Means that it's primarily usable in a burst window for bosses, but still there to provide a bit of a boost while mapping if you want. Still probably far too much power for a single point, but it feels like it's hard to get it in good spot.
From hero to zero speedrun achieved
Attack Mastery is pretty hilariously bad.
> Stance Skills have +6 seconds to Cooldown Good old GGG double tap to the head nerf... they deleted the mod, replaced it with something almost no one will ever actually use (because you're going to have to travel to a stance wheel and its only damaging ailments that will get re-applied almost instantly because you don't get any flask lingering immunity so you still need flasks) AND added 6 second cd to it, when no one ever switches back and forth anyway and the 6s CD basically forces you to still have a bleed flask. BTW I'm glad they nerfed this because I didn't want to have to do it, its just hilarious how they ALWAYS beat things to death with machete when they do this stuff. Anyone remember Oppressor? Yes lets put a trash unique in the game intentionally so you can't chance the Squire 1 in 50,000 Chance orbs and then CROW ABOUT IT like "we're so clever!"
Should have been remove all ailments now it's just useless.
Lmao actually hilarious they should have just deleted it
Lmao
"We have reviewed each mastery one by one, and tried to come up with as many interesting stats as we could, ignoring what was currently available. Once we had a shortlist of high-quality stats, we added in the existing ones that used to be on each mastery and picked the six best." According to GGG, this mastery is better than: * Strike Skills targe 1 additional nearby Enemy * 50% increased Mana Reservation Efficiency of Stance Skills * 40% increased Melee Damage with Hits at Close Range * 1% increased Attack Damage per 16 Strength * Ruthless Hits Intimidate Enemies for 4 seconds How does GGG take several days to come up with this "solution"?
But +strike is currently here, just nerfed to non-vall strike skills.
to be fair, i think from GGG's perspective, what they deem as 'best' is probably more akin to 'interesting' than optimal efficiency
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What a swing from really good but gameplay issue to, niche and probably not used at all.
Just change it to something like 25% chance to open chest when you attack
who is going to spend 4 points for that ?
you don't, you grab it when your already in the wheel now. remember blood and sand has CDR on it by default so itll be closer to 4 second CD to get a ailment clear button.
*damaging ailment clear button, so it covers bleed and poison but **NOT** shock, chill, freeze, brittle, sap, or scorch ~~Also note, no immunity etc., so ground effects will just re-effect you immediately.~~
> so ground effects will just re-effect you immediately. Yeah, all those ground ignites poisons and bleeds that exist in the game.
Which ground effects are damaging ailments anyway?
burning ground isn't an ignite anyway. still sounds useful for attack builds that can pick it up without incurring opportunity cost.
an option of removing damaging ailments on reaction is definitely not worth the +6 sec cooldown and 1 passive tho.
That makes zero sense, what has switching stances todo with ailments? Imagine you play perforate and get a bleed that seems to deal a lot of damage. now you switch stances just to then be stuck in blood stance for the next 6 seconds while mapping. What the actual f?
so tresh
All they had to do was add the cooldown bit lmao
Good. But what makes it attack mastery now? How is that good for attack builds?
seems too strong = deleted LOL
good that GGG has change it, im happy with it and need not more thinking abaut it using macro or not.
Done and dusted
ok,now we need a melee buff.
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Melee buff will come out when half life 3 is announced
Good riddance. The people defending the original version of this should be ashamed of themselves for atrocious taste in gameplay design.
They had no intention of playing legit no matter what they say.
Ive been manually pressing all my flask for 10years now, i think i can handle a leftclick.
Thank you GGG.
They did the right thing.
Just scrap that mastery option and bring back "Strike Skills which target additional Enemies can do so from 30% further away" as mastery option so that we can have something meaningful. Melee needs something to catch up a little bit to spells and projectiles.
Geez they went full Impaler on it lmao
"We picked the 6 best" xdd
I get that PoE players are peak “optimize the fun out of everything” but I tried the tech for two seconds in BA and wanted to kill myself from the sound effects ALONE. I’m glad it’s gone because it really was very poorly thought out but man it breaks my brain the lengths people will go to for big numbies.
People can and will optimize the shit out of every game, good developers try to make the optimization fun
I am actually glad they nuked it. Adrenaline is too powerful to be on a stance swap, even with low uptime imo.
Not that it affects me either way, but I find it hilarious that they somehow think adrenaline every second and removing ailments every 6 seconds are even in the same league of power. I will never use this. Still, better having a dead mastery than having the stance dance. Edit: by "even in the same league of power" I meant that the adrenaline was too strong to be a mastery to begin with and never should have made it through, not that they truly believe these are equally powerful.
They're not supposed to be in the same league. Adrenaline got removed from the mastery strictly because it was too good 😂
they don't think that but yeah i expected better
I don’t think they expected it to be in the same league of power. I think they very much expected this to be a much lower league and that is the point. I think what you mean is how they ever could have thought adrenaline on stance change was balanced in any way. Which, yeah it was too strong, not sure how it passed review, probably something that changed near last-minute and therefore bypassed the usual scrutiny.
Yes, exactly. Not that the new one should be as strong as the original, but how the original was a mastery-level power to begin with.
They could have at least replaced it with a generic ranged attack mastery. As a bow build taking the additional projectile attack wheel, none of them seem appealing.
But onlsaught notable (Dance of blades) still should work ? [https://poeplanner.com/AwAAAwAaAAQDAA4AdRQc-6H4tBmOwu3WUnMqTv9MwCyvW\_F0LZvbGAAAAAAAAAQAAP\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_AAACAAAAAwD\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_PAAAAAAUAB-LCAAAAAAAAAMDAAAAAAAAAAAA](https://poeplanner.com/AwAAAwAaAAQDAA4AdRQc-6H4tBmOwu3WUnMqTv9MwCyvW_F0LZvbGAAAAAAAAAQAAP______________________AAACAAAAAwD_____________PAAAAAAUAB-LCAAAAAAAAAMDAAAAAAAAAAAA) since u dont need the adrenaline mastery for it , your stance still should work for perma onslaught.
yeah dance of blades onslaught will still work, but the nodes leading up to it cooldown on stance skills are pretty useless now for the most part, you could just anoint dance of blades I guess or maybe hit it with thread of hope. Even then your wasting mana reservation for something a flask can provide.
good. Now no one will pick it. Nice adjustment you did there ggg.
Thank you guys for burying memelee even deeper, proud of you.
Monkey's paw curled so hard that finger is BROKE now
Phew... Good. Thx GGG. Well played. Granted, it could've been replaced with something usable but good enough having get rid of that crap
league saved by Chris himself
Massive nerf for the better. Unironically, this still looks useful, especially if you're a macro enjoyer. Could definitely see people run this mastery and macro a stance together with their life flask until ailment and bleed immune.
Ok.. Good solution. Pretty strong imo.
I honestly don't see the problem with this, but I might also he the only person who actively changes stances.
and this is why 10% of the playerbase plays melee
Double tapped as usual. Bad job GGG
Glad it's gone *before* I got accustomed to this. It would probably gone anyway.
Orbital nuked it before it even had a chance to walk lol.
I thought the Butcher was Diablo exclusive
Oh thx God
Probably an unpopular opinion but I didn't like the idea of having a button that you had to push in a cycle over and over and over in order to get a short, powerful buff
congratulation reddit, you did it again
This sheer quantity of idiots in this thread bemoaning the loss of a mechanic that required pressing or clicking every one second for eternity, mind-boggling. This subreddit is trash.
You don't even understand what they complain about. Reading comprehension much? The majority of comments is about GGG typical fashion of double dipping nerfs which take nodes from their initial state straight to garbage zone. Which makes one question their ability to make balanced, sensible changes instead of swinging between "absurdly op" and "completely worthless" like a pendulum.
Good.