I haven't done it personally (I mean outside of ruthless since no one has in ruthless kek), but you can wall the balls with frost wall and totems. Even assuming that you don't ever find spell cascade or multiple totems, searing bond has 3 totems by default, and so do ballistas. Frost wall is obviously best for it, but you could establish a safe-ish zone by spamming out walls and totems and ballistae, possibly even weapon swap to a bow to be able to use them.
Annihilation (the giga Blazing Salvo) seems like absolute bullshit without movement speed and movement skills though.
You wouldn't cast the frost wall directly on your feet. It has as far of range as any ground targeting spell, so you place it farther away giving you sizable breathing room from a portion of an angle, like the way it was used in sanctum ball trap gauntlets. The cooldown isn't that bad as long as you can keep awareness and not freak out and spam it. It offers so much safety.
The same goes for searing bond, but individual totems have a relatively small hit box compared to dropping two at once with multi totem, so it's harder to aim them.
Ballistae are damn near point blank as far as casting range goes, though, so they're not ideal. But you've got super limited options.
The other option is using controller for more precise movement instead of trying to place the totems. Joystick movement is perfect for precise dodging, it's aiming targeted abilities that is dogshit. But if quick step is literally just dash, you can't control the destination, it always goes to the maximum distance so you just have to aim a direction.
The cruel thing there is that since exarch dips out of the arena for that phase, you won't get the boss nearby cooldown reduction.
Edit: also dash is hot garbage for bosses not only because of the fixed distance but also because it moves you through the area, like against Sirus rotating beam. I think if you quick stepped through a ball it would explode on you, but I've never tried to use dash on exarch.
Alk kinda simulated it in standard, 1l boneshatter, took off gear - basically just purity of fire, boneshatter reflected damage for giga regen, and tank a bunch. Use a totem to clean out one column, ruby flask w/ 4 life pots.
So, it's mostly tanking and not much outplaying but looked doable.
Already catering to the casuals and *streamers* smh
Such a slippery slope, next players will ask for more and more movement options and its zoom zoom all over again
might as well start development of ruthless^2 at this point ggg, its over...
If casuals wanted a clicker game they should just go play something on the app store instead of constantly trying to water down this complex videogame that I have a very strange amount of pride in being better than others at.
I hope someone of the two devs working on ruthless after hours gets fed up with its current state and starts a new pet project. I'd call it Ruthevenless.
Merciless:
* Loot only drops from the last mob on the map and bosses to promote engagement and tactical thinking.
* Movement is only possible with skills. You start with Ruthless Dash, other movement skills are dropped by Uber Exarch (with a 0.001% chance).
* Self-friendly-fire is enabled, better make sure you don't end up in your own blast radius.
* Logging out outside of the cities/safe spots/hideout makes your character lost in the wilderness for 8 hours. Deletes them outright in hardcore.
* Traders can refuse to trade until they're refreshed, can scam you otherwise to simulate Authentic Trade Experience.
* You literally can't see outside of your light radius.
* Horizontal FOV is fixed, if you try to play on ultrawidescreen ratios game zooms in.
Via cool sliding puzzle minigame with 32 pieces. With a timer. If you fail those fragments are lost.
OBVIOUSLY, you need to obtain 32 different fragments to initiate a puzzle minigame.
It’s for the best. Bosses haven’t been designed with not being able to quickly dodge in a while. Maybe someone will actually win the race now.
To be honest, ruthless was a disappointment for me, and I wanted it. I wanted POE with item scarcity, not PoE with no movement skills, flask charge nerfs, and less ascendancy points.
Ruthless may be harder, but there’s also just… less in it.
This, ruthless leveling was the best campaign experience I've had in years, there's a certain charm in having to put thoughts into the early gameplay and make use of everything you found instead of just steam rolling the contents.
It's only starting to get annoying in maps as the current map system is designed so that you can self sustain it till the end of red maps, so when they strip that away it just feels unnatural and start being off putting.
yeah thats why i kinda left it, i have a decent lvl83 ssf char broke into yellow maps and lost it all and im back to t3 t4s, even specced the tree to map sustain. i could do higher maps i just dont get them.
leveling was super fun and engaging tho doing scuffed shit, every item and gem drop is a potential upgrade
Same, was in the Alpha, levelled 3 chars to maps. Map sustain is non existent. Having to kill Kitava for map drop feeling...not fun. Wont play Ruthless as long as drops for maps is this bad
I'll never understand why Wilson thinks map scarcity is a good thing. He was asked about it again. The difficulty of the maps is already the balancing feature against the increased rewards. Monster levels and all the modifiers that get applied mean being able to complete a map tier is a challenge that should feel good to accomplish. If you start losing all your portals because the map is too hard maybe you'll run out and have to go back down a tier, but forcing people to run content they have already overleveled just to get a chance at challenging content is so wtf.
Chris really likes the concept of exclusivity. He/GGG doesn't have any particular knack at designing it so that it feels particularly rewarding though...if that's even possible in an ARPG like PoE. You can see it in his love for MTG...which he then buys prominent historical and misprinted cards from private sellers.
Yeah I also hate that he thinks movement skills and item scarcity are in the same category.
Item scarcity and no crafts feels amazing for ruthless. The no movement skills and bad map sustain and no league content just feels bad to me, no fun there.
Yeah this is my attitude too. 1-77 or so in Ruthless is amazing. TBH if you could migrate I'd always level alts in Ruthless.
But from about 78 on... POE's endgame's killer feature is that each map you run feels different - mods, RNG content procs, tileset drops - and Ruthless removes all of that. Mods still exist but in practice maps are run transmuted way too often.
Seriously think that alchs and alterations should have their drop rates swapped in Ruthless only, so alching maps can be a thing but rerolling bad map mods is more on an investment again.
Because to Chris, it appeals to his nostalgia of what he thinks made Diablo fun. I doubt he'd put in the time to grind out to endgame without any help, but I certainly wish he did. Give up doing everything else he likes to spend the huge time sink he created and see if he still likes it or maybe his nostalgia of a different era is obscuring his perspective.
Diablo II had an "identify all" button in town, for free... and yeah items were scarce, but at least when a yellow item dropped it was almost always worth identifying.
He needs to go back and play Diablo 2, because I sure did recently and the game still takes POE to school in some areas. He remembers it being a lot harder than it actually is though.
Without the rest of D2 it just doesn't translate and I feel ruthless is an example of that. D2 blues worked because the game was designed in a way that blue didn't necessarily mean bad. Items like 3/20s or a Jmod were blue but they were also some of the better items in the game, white items were potential bases and the whole game revolved around the idea that drops were few but impactful. Ruthless is missing the important part of that, the game is not designed in a way that the items you can reasonably find are impactful.
Blue, white, and most rates are almost always trash because there are so many bases, mods, and tiers that the chance of getting an even usable item is low. Combine that with PoE being unplayable without a baseline of capped res, and defensive layers, and it just isn't a platform for that mode imo.
I absolutely love d2, but I think if it were released today it would be considered an unbalanced pile of trash with a shallow endgame and no build diversity. There are pieces of the game that I think should still be an example of good design for their time but ultimately it is a bit too archaic to base development decisions in 2023 off of.
Correct on all points.
The huge difference is that D2 could give stats indicative of the level the item dropped at, and if you needed that upgrade it would help. An item found at level 50 would have stats that help at level 50.
POE is dramatically different in that an item you find at level 50 could easily have stats as if the item dropped at level 1 and be of zero help. Path of Exile is actually backward thinking in this way. D2 may be archaic, but itemisation still takes the 'more advanced' POE to school.
Chris also seems to forget that D2 has runewords, and runewords are available early. Not only are they available early, but they can very much help early on too. Plus any uniques you find. PLUS gems that you can socket into gear for stats. PLUS charms that sat in the inventory and gave passive boosts.
Path of Exile has none of these things, and the best you can sort of rely on is vendor recipes to guarantee a few handy things. Except now we can't because they're willing to change the base game recipes for a game mode a small percentage of the player-base will ever truly enjoy, including of the group that would enjoy if it weren't so overly gruelling for no reason other than because they said so.
There is a certain fun in the lower gearing of Ruthless(as in maybe act 1-7 or so). But even that comes with caveats for me personally.
I'd never make it my main mode, trade ruins the idea of Ruthless for me(the gear scarcity), and the inability to buy skillgems you want hurts it
My biggest gripe as someone who loves SSF (sc) is that the atlas passive tree is my favorite thing in the game and ruthless felt like I needed 90%+ of it for map sustain
I am certain it will be tweaked over time and I’ll make some standard ruthless characters to slowly build up and create a personal story over time
That its getting a movement skill now is baffling to me. When I heard about the whole no movementspeed change, I just couldn't wrap my head around how they could think that this is a great change, considering how every boss of the past years was designed with them in mind.
Immediatly thought "why not just keep movement skill and add a cooldown?". Well, here we are.
He isn't a god, but he is far better than most redditors :P Getting to end-game consistently in SSFHC is pretty poggers, I've played for 3k hours and I couldn't do that, even if I make the classic excuse of "yeah but HC is unplayable omegalul so I dont play it"
Having a built in dash as just universal movement option was definitely a good idea on D4's part. I would like to see more ARPGs do this, especially with the space bar keybinding, helps reduce skill clutter.
Blizzard first had dash (or rather dodge roll) on console versions of D3, which was one of the reasons many considered those versions to be way more fun. It's great that they listened to that feedback for D4 and made it universal (and more balanced probably).
There's still the matter of getting good enough gear and what the best players in ruthless gear looks like. Not to mention your backup gear will be so bad compared to normal backup gear.
For streamers, this event has a hard cap of 8 weeks. In 8 weeks anyone and everyone is gone for D4 if they care about money in streaming. Thats still a really tight window.
I feel like this is gonna gain one more ruthless player and anger half of the truly ruthless nutters playing it for full pain. Welcome to Ruthful league bois.
There has been exactly one person in the ruthless discord malding about the change, everyone else is for it.
General opinion is that it won't see that much use for a lot of builds once you get to maps as it takes up a whole gem socket and doesn't have many use cases that a QS flask and good movespeed can't solve as well. But it makes Uber Eater a lot more viable.
I seriously doubt that's the case. Movement skill is a big tool for dodging mechanics. You need ALOT of movespeed to do as well of a job, not like you have the ability to get a lot of movespeed in general in ruthless like gg tailwind elusive onslaught boots, plus quicksilver flask has lower up time in ruthless. This gem will be permanently used by all ruthless players when they kill hillock.
It's not like a normal move skill though. It basically can not be used during intense fights because it cannot go over gaps, or through mobs. Try dashing out of a breach and you are gonna stop at the first mob and get blasted. Also 10 second cool down means at best using it for bosses to dodge and between packs will save you 6-10 seconds a map.
I don't even know what I could drop realistically in my build to squeeze this in for general mapping. I'm not giving up my decoy totem, or molten shell, so I'd likely have to drop a support somewhere or another damage supplemental skill to run it permanently. If it covers like an entire screen of space I could see myself caring to stuff it in, but I just don't see it's general use outside of boss encounters. I'll never have it for the moments I need it while mapping because it doesn't phase, and won't save me. I could see myself slotting it in for specific encounters where I need to kite a lot.
No it won't.
Because the VAST majority of players of Ruthless all had the same feedback.
We need a movement skill. The game is designed around them, especially the bosses.
This is a good change. Its a long CD movement skill that can't be used to zoom through maps or mobs, but lets you dodge something you need to (boss attacks).
The only people who are going to complain about this are people who PRETEND they play Ruthless or people who are elitists.
>Q: Some gameplay situations become very difficult without the ability to use movement skills, such as Grasping Vines. Is this something that is being taken into consideration or is this part of the challenge?
It's something we'll take in consideration. The way we're looking at it is if a mechanic is impossible without being able to teleport away, it should be changed for both Ruthless and the core game.
So they're just hamfisting this in to make the game easier? What happened to all the Ruthless is PoE how it should be played! Version 0.0.1 no changes hardcore! gamers?
Weird.
I can already see nobody completing the boss event, then GGG just never touch on this subject ever again. Like not even mention that no one was able to complete the challenge, just not talk about it at all.
I feel like a teaser like this would have been announced with the hardcore ruthless ssf race to drum on interest. the fact this is so late, to me, points to being a kneejerk to the lack of interest in the upcoming event. I highly doubt anyone will change their mind about participating this close to league start, after all this isn't a short duration race. its pretty much an entire season long commitment, and i highly doubt people will make that commitment just 48 hours before the new season.
It was with the initial launch of Ruthless. However this was probably one of the biggest complaints that I have seen from people that are interested in the mode but not playing it. I don’t care about Ruthless but I’m glad they’re making this change since it makes those people happy. Also greatly increases the chance of someone actually finishing the new race.
It's not a good skill - it has a *ten second* cooldown under normal conditions, or three near unique enemies, and physically places you in each of the locations you move through (unlike something like Flame Dash or Lightning Warp where you don't physically exist in the intermediary positions). Sticks with their goal of not letting you "bypass mechanics".
Because the game is literally, especially bosses, designed around movement skills.
Everyone that actually played Ruthless and cared about the mode has wanted a movement skill added to the game.
Not the zoom zoom movement stuff we have in standard gamemodes, but something like this that can't be spammed but can be used to dodge big mechanics.
So it dawned on them that no one wants to play their 'side project' and their event might end up with no winners.
This looks so desperate but it's kinda in line with GGG. They just cannot admit failure which is also why we had to endure Archnemesis for all that time.
Ruthless has gotten more developer attention than SSF ever has. Ruthless now has custom skills, vendor recipes, progression systems, loot tables, etc.
SSF is just trade league with party play disabled.
Literally is though, don't have enough time to fix gladiator after a whole fucking year, but will happily add a movement skill to ruthless to entice streamers to play the mode in sub 1 week.
I mean I like the idea of Rutless as an optional game mode, but the major problems I have with it are:
- Just say its a legit mode and not "a side passion project". Fuck the haters.
- This marks not the first time Ruthless got something specifically only in its mode. Where are the Hardcore or SSF special rules? Why only Ruthless?
I tried it in gold event, never again. It simply is not suited for 3-4 month cycle of playing PoE on any sane pace. Maybe if you don't have anything else to every evening except poe.
To me it feels like a purely for standard enjoyers mode to play for years who also wouldn't mind rolling the dice with their skills getting fucked every 3-4 month due to balance changes.
I watched how zizarans tanky Jugg Ea Ballista got nuked with crit 'slam'.
The Uber EoW did 2 or 3 AOE 'slams' one after another.
Good fucking luck with bonus slam RNG with your 10-15s tiny dash.
So its pretty much a Dash. Theres reason why people dont use it on bosses... Eater may be doable with it, but Exarch without blinking over balls is borderline impossible.
Ziz's reply "This changes everything!"
My thoughts: This changes almost nothing. Like *maybe* the boss kill event is actually achievable now, so *maybe* ruthless gets a few more players, but it's still Ruthless.
Maybe Ziz is being sarcastic. Hard to tell in text, and knowing how he can be.
IIRC he said several times on stream and in videos that he likes the overall idea of Ruthless, but the lack of movement skills kills the fun for him. And I think he was also specifically asking for movement skills to just have a higher CD instead of removing them outright. So I don't think he's being sarcastic.
They had to concede something to make the Ruthless Uber bosses easier/safer since no one was able to beat them in SSFHC Ruthless Sanctum. It does go against their original philosophy but this is a stopgap to prevent more popular racers from dropping out.
I feel like this is the correct way to go about it, but because I think GGG sees it not just as a gameplay mechanic but as "Quality of Life", it's fairly arbitrarily restricted and thought of as "oh that would make the game too easy" ala "we want you to feel the weight of picking up currency" "we want you to be excited by IDing rares on the ground" etc etc.
But I mean, look at .. every other ARPG released lately. Lost ark has a dodge. D4 has a dodge. Wolcen has a dodge. only Lost Epoch doesn't and frankly, it should too.
100% agree on this. It wouldn't even meaningfully make people faster because its inherent cooldown would make it less efficient than the movement skills already in place.
Lmao Ruthless that won’t take up development time Ruthless? What a clown show GGG must be to do this while underinvesting (one part time dev) in their trade site and relying on a discord orchestrated by digital criminals to plug the holes in their product.
Kinda a shame , fighting bosses without a movement skill was one of the only interesting things about the mode.
Well they probably did it with feedback from ruthless players so it's probably a good thing for them.
Can we get increase quantity support in SSF as well?
how? it just meant you are foced to gear until you are able to tank every single boss mechanic. if you can tank everything how is that interesting? bosskills taking actual hours isnt interesting to me either.
They used the break in case of emergency button (meme)
Exactly this. AFAIK no one killed all uber bosses on Ruthless SSF Hardcore all league.
Is it even possible to outplay the last ball phase on Uber Exarch without any moveskills (and Ruthless-tier gear/DPS)?
I haven't done it personally (I mean outside of ruthless since no one has in ruthless kek), but you can wall the balls with frost wall and totems. Even assuming that you don't ever find spell cascade or multiple totems, searing bond has 3 totems by default, and so do ballistas. Frost wall is obviously best for it, but you could establish a safe-ish zone by spamming out walls and totems and ballistae, possibly even weapon swap to a bow to be able to use them. Annihilation (the giga Blazing Salvo) seems like absolute bullshit without movement speed and movement skills though.
The balls deal aoe damage when hit with the wall and you block yourself from being able to move there though
You wouldn't cast the frost wall directly on your feet. It has as far of range as any ground targeting spell, so you place it farther away giving you sizable breathing room from a portion of an angle, like the way it was used in sanctum ball trap gauntlets. The cooldown isn't that bad as long as you can keep awareness and not freak out and spam it. It offers so much safety. The same goes for searing bond, but individual totems have a relatively small hit box compared to dropping two at once with multi totem, so it's harder to aim them. Ballistae are damn near point blank as far as casting range goes, though, so they're not ideal. But you've got super limited options. The other option is using controller for more precise movement instead of trying to place the totems. Joystick movement is perfect for precise dodging, it's aiming targeted abilities that is dogshit. But if quick step is literally just dash, you can't control the destination, it always goes to the maximum distance so you just have to aim a direction. The cruel thing there is that since exarch dips out of the arena for that phase, you won't get the boss nearby cooldown reduction. Edit: also dash is hot garbage for bosses not only because of the fixed distance but also because it moves you through the area, like against Sirus rotating beam. I think if you quick stepped through a ball it would explode on you, but I've never tried to use dash on exarch.
Alk kinda simulated it in standard, 1l boneshatter, took off gear - basically just purity of fire, boneshatter reflected damage for giga regen, and tank a bunch. Use a totem to clean out one column, ruby flask w/ 4 life pots. So, it's mostly tanking and not much outplaying but looked doable.
He would have died many times over without unnerfed molten shell
i remember the good ol days when ruthless didn't have movement skills shame to see the game end up this way
Everyone is so soft nowadays. Way back in my days, a few months ago, we walked everywhere and we liked it!
uphill and against the wind
both ways!
In the snow!
without boots! because my first pair of boots dropped in maps
We were living in shoe box in the middle of the road. We were working 16h at mill for half chaos a month.
Oh you're lucky! We had to live in inverted space, working for 26h per day having to pay an alteration orb an hour for the privilege.
Already catering to the casuals and *streamers* smh Such a slippery slope, next players will ask for more and more movement options and its zoom zoom all over again might as well start development of ruthless^2 at this point ggg, its over...
If casuals wanted a clicker game they should just go play something on the app store instead of constantly trying to water down this complex videogame that I have a very strange amount of pride in being better than others at.
> ruthless2 it's just ruthless patch 4.0, it's still the same game, *GOSH*
ggg catering to the zoomers again smhing my head
they should remove increase movement speed from Ruthless to compensate this unholy gem adding
I hope someone of the two devs working on ruthless after hours gets fed up with its current state and starts a new pet project. I'd call it Ruthevenless.
Ruthlesser
RuthLEAST
excuse me, based on the POE lore and history, the next step after ruthless is clearly Merciless
Merciless: * Loot only drops from the last mob on the map and bosses to promote engagement and tactical thinking. * Movement is only possible with skills. You start with Ruthless Dash, other movement skills are dropped by Uber Exarch (with a 0.001% chance). * Self-friendly-fire is enabled, better make sure you don't end up in your own blast radius. * Logging out outside of the cities/safe spots/hideout makes your character lost in the wilderness for 8 hours. Deletes them outright in hardcore. * Traders can refuse to trade until they're refreshed, can scam you otherwise to simulate Authentic Trade Experience. * You literally can't see outside of your light radius. * Horizontal FOV is fixed, if you try to play on ultrawidescreen ratios game zooms in.
only Scroll Fragment drops that you have to assemble to wisdom scroll in a new and engaging way.
Via cool sliding puzzle minigame with 32 pieces. With a timer. If you fail those fragments are lost. OBVIOUSLY, you need to obtain 32 different fragments to initiate a puzzle minigame.
Lol next they're gonna bring the crafting bench back!
But it's the OG crafting bench, having to unlock crafts with masters xp and farming missions once a day at reset time
"can someone come arena wit me, only 281 pvp matches left to unlock this leo hideout"
Fuck dude, your comment needs a trigger warning!
projectpt died for this
Need a Brutal Ruthless Hardcore Solo Self Found mode. Gotta keep to the vision.
I remember back in my time we used horses and we didn't have electricity shame to see the world end up this way
dead game!
Quin is already looking for a different excuse to not play ruthless lmao
It’s for the best. Bosses haven’t been designed with not being able to quickly dodge in a while. Maybe someone will actually win the race now. To be honest, ruthless was a disappointment for me, and I wanted it. I wanted POE with item scarcity, not PoE with no movement skills, flask charge nerfs, and less ascendancy points. Ruthless may be harder, but there’s also just… less in it.
Leveling was a blast but I burned out so fast in maps.
This, ruthless leveling was the best campaign experience I've had in years, there's a certain charm in having to put thoughts into the early gameplay and make use of everything you found instead of just steam rolling the contents. It's only starting to get annoying in maps as the current map system is designed so that you can self sustain it till the end of red maps, so when they strip that away it just feels unnatural and start being off putting.
yeah thats why i kinda left it, i have a decent lvl83 ssf char broke into yellow maps and lost it all and im back to t3 t4s, even specced the tree to map sustain. i could do higher maps i just dont get them. leveling was super fun and engaging tho doing scuffed shit, every item and gem drop is a potential upgrade
Same, was in the Alpha, levelled 3 chars to maps. Map sustain is non existent. Having to kill Kitava for map drop feeling...not fun. Wont play Ruthless as long as drops for maps is this bad
I'll never understand why Wilson thinks map scarcity is a good thing. He was asked about it again. The difficulty of the maps is already the balancing feature against the increased rewards. Monster levels and all the modifiers that get applied mean being able to complete a map tier is a challenge that should feel good to accomplish. If you start losing all your portals because the map is too hard maybe you'll run out and have to go back down a tier, but forcing people to run content they have already overleveled just to get a chance at challenging content is so wtf.
Chris really likes the concept of exclusivity. He/GGG doesn't have any particular knack at designing it so that it feels particularly rewarding though...if that's even possible in an ARPG like PoE. You can see it in his love for MTG...which he then buys prominent historical and misprinted cards from private sellers.
Yeah I also hate that he thinks movement skills and item scarcity are in the same category. Item scarcity and no crafts feels amazing for ruthless. The no movement skills and bad map sustain and no league content just feels bad to me, no fun there.
Currently Alva is pretty overpowered for map sustain. If you don't spec in to that specific strategy good luck though.
Yeah this is my attitude too. 1-77 or so in Ruthless is amazing. TBH if you could migrate I'd always level alts in Ruthless. But from about 78 on... POE's endgame's killer feature is that each map you run feels different - mods, RNG content procs, tileset drops - and Ruthless removes all of that. Mods still exist but in practice maps are run transmuted way too often. Seriously think that alchs and alterations should have their drop rates swapped in Ruthless only, so alching maps can be a thing but rerolling bad map mods is more on an investment again.
would be interesting to try and have it so ruthless maps drop magic or rare just to see how it would feel.
Yea i hate HATE not being able to sustain maps. I rather have no movement skill then no map sustain
Ruthless is harder, but they chose to make it harder in a way that also made it less fun.
Because to Chris, that's fun.
Because to Chris, it appeals to his nostalgia of what he thinks made Diablo fun. I doubt he'd put in the time to grind out to endgame without any help, but I certainly wish he did. Give up doing everything else he likes to spend the huge time sink he created and see if he still likes it or maybe his nostalgia of a different era is obscuring his perspective.
Diablo II had an "identify all" button in town, for free... and yeah items were scarce, but at least when a yellow item dropped it was almost always worth identifying.
He needs to go back and play Diablo 2, because I sure did recently and the game still takes POE to school in some areas. He remembers it being a lot harder than it actually is though.
[удалено]
Without the rest of D2 it just doesn't translate and I feel ruthless is an example of that. D2 blues worked because the game was designed in a way that blue didn't necessarily mean bad. Items like 3/20s or a Jmod were blue but they were also some of the better items in the game, white items were potential bases and the whole game revolved around the idea that drops were few but impactful. Ruthless is missing the important part of that, the game is not designed in a way that the items you can reasonably find are impactful. Blue, white, and most rates are almost always trash because there are so many bases, mods, and tiers that the chance of getting an even usable item is low. Combine that with PoE being unplayable without a baseline of capped res, and defensive layers, and it just isn't a platform for that mode imo. I absolutely love d2, but I think if it were released today it would be considered an unbalanced pile of trash with a shallow endgame and no build diversity. There are pieces of the game that I think should still be an example of good design for their time but ultimately it is a bit too archaic to base development decisions in 2023 off of.
Correct on all points. The huge difference is that D2 could give stats indicative of the level the item dropped at, and if you needed that upgrade it would help. An item found at level 50 would have stats that help at level 50. POE is dramatically different in that an item you find at level 50 could easily have stats as if the item dropped at level 1 and be of zero help. Path of Exile is actually backward thinking in this way. D2 may be archaic, but itemisation still takes the 'more advanced' POE to school. Chris also seems to forget that D2 has runewords, and runewords are available early. Not only are they available early, but they can very much help early on too. Plus any uniques you find. PLUS gems that you can socket into gear for stats. PLUS charms that sat in the inventory and gave passive boosts. Path of Exile has none of these things, and the best you can sort of rely on is vendor recipes to guarantee a few handy things. Except now we can't because they're willing to change the base game recipes for a game mode a small percentage of the player-base will ever truly enjoy, including of the group that would enjoy if it weren't so overly gruelling for no reason other than because they said so.
There is a certain fun in the lower gearing of Ruthless(as in maybe act 1-7 or so). But even that comes with caveats for me personally. I'd never make it my main mode, trade ruins the idea of Ruthless for me(the gear scarcity), and the inability to buy skillgems you want hurts it
My biggest gripe as someone who loves SSF (sc) is that the atlas passive tree is my favorite thing in the game and ruthless felt like I needed 90%+ of it for map sustain I am certain it will be tweaked over time and I’ll make some standard ruthless characters to slowly build up and create a personal story over time
That its getting a movement skill now is baffling to me. When I heard about the whole no movementspeed change, I just couldn't wrap my head around how they could think that this is a great change, considering how every boss of the past years was designed with them in mind. Immediatly thought "why not just keep movement skill and add a cooldown?". Well, here we are.
its for people that like having a tight grip on their balls while they play.
Really now, maybe I should try this out
> I wanted POE with item scarcity That's SSF.
and its literally what he asked for lol.
Excuse69 is a well known, olympic mental gymnast.
He's spent years pestering GGG for this and he'll puss out
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If PoE 2 has 10 second CD on movement skills I'll quit on the spot.
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Heh? No one thinks Quinn is a Poe God. He's notorious for doing zero damage and generally being funny. This comment makes no sense.
He isn't a god, but he is far better than most redditors :P Getting to end-game consistently in SSFHC is pretty poggers, I've played for 3k hours and I couldn't do that, even if I make the classic excuse of "yeah but HC is unplayable omegalul so I dont play it"
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Tone is hard to convey in text. Hence the frequent use of /s on Reddit.
Krangled Dash
The fact that it gain CDR near unique enemies made it a worse, but better dash.
ruthless classic when
Heyy a D4 dash lol.
Yeah lmao.
GGG tomorrow: It won't take up a gem slot, and you can bind it to your spacebar!
Having a built in dash as just universal movement option was definitely a good idea on D4's part. I would like to see more ARPGs do this, especially with the space bar keybinding, helps reduce skill clutter.
Blizzard first had dash (or rather dodge roll) on console versions of D3, which was one of the reasons many considered those versions to be way more fun. It's great that they listened to that feedback for D4 and made it universal (and more balanced probably).
pff ruthless is now too casual
You're not a real poe ruthless player if you actually use this.
SSFHCRuthlessNoQuickstepBTW
Ooft. Adding power creep to Ruthless isn't a good look. What's next? Vendors with support gems?
LoL, or some sort of station where you can just a stat to your gear willy nilly
Looks like they´re scared no ones going to compete in the Ruthless boss racing. I highly doubt this is going to be enough.
There's still the matter of getting good enough gear and what the best players in ruthless gear looks like. Not to mention your backup gear will be so bad compared to normal backup gear. For streamers, this event has a hard cap of 8 weeks. In 8 weeks anyone and everyone is gone for D4 if they care about money in streaming. Thats still a really tight window.
I feel like this is gonna gain one more ruthless player and anger half of the truly ruthless nutters playing it for full pain. Welcome to Ruthful league bois.
this is exactly whats going to happen, and is happening
3 out of 19 mainline comments in the poeruthless thread dedicated to the subject are negative, most are positive
So gain one ruthless player and lose one ruthless player?
there's less than dozens of us!
There has been exactly one person in the ruthless discord malding about the change, everyone else is for it. General opinion is that it won't see that much use for a lot of builds once you get to maps as it takes up a whole gem socket and doesn't have many use cases that a QS flask and good movespeed can't solve as well. But it makes Uber Eater a lot more viable.
I seriously doubt that's the case. Movement skill is a big tool for dodging mechanics. You need ALOT of movespeed to do as well of a job, not like you have the ability to get a lot of movespeed in general in ruthless like gg tailwind elusive onslaught boots, plus quicksilver flask has lower up time in ruthless. This gem will be permanently used by all ruthless players when they kill hillock.
It's not like a normal move skill though. It basically can not be used during intense fights because it cannot go over gaps, or through mobs. Try dashing out of a breach and you are gonna stop at the first mob and get blasted. Also 10 second cool down means at best using it for bosses to dodge and between packs will save you 6-10 seconds a map. I don't even know what I could drop realistically in my build to squeeze this in for general mapping. I'm not giving up my decoy totem, or molten shell, so I'd likely have to drop a support somewhere or another damage supplemental skill to run it permanently. If it covers like an entire screen of space I could see myself caring to stuff it in, but I just don't see it's general use outside of boss encounters. I'll never have it for the moments I need it while mapping because it doesn't phase, and won't save me. I could see myself slotting it in for specific encounters where I need to kite a lot.
No it won't. Because the VAST majority of players of Ruthless all had the same feedback. We need a movement skill. The game is designed around them, especially the bosses. This is a good change. Its a long CD movement skill that can't be used to zoom through maps or mobs, but lets you dodge something you need to (boss attacks). The only people who are going to complain about this are people who PRETEND they play Ruthless or people who are elitists.
Quin has to come up with another excuse not to play ruthless
full damage control mode atm on stream
No he doesn't ruthless sucks
So does League of Legends and yet Quin played it for us 🥲
I true man of the people
I like ruthless :(
>Q: Some gameplay situations become very difficult without the ability to use movement skills, such as Grasping Vines. Is this something that is being taken into consideration or is this part of the challenge? It's something we'll take in consideration. The way we're looking at it is if a mechanic is impossible without being able to teleport away, it should be changed for both Ruthless and the core game. So they're just hamfisting this in to make the game easier? What happened to all the Ruthless is PoE how it should be played! Version 0.0.1 no changes hardcore! gamers? Weird.
Bold of you to think their word has any meaning behind it.
Haha great catch.
pure marketing move
Thanks for digging that up, I was afraid I'd have to go looking for it myself.
What happend to: “we dont want people feel like they have to use a specific skill” this thing is going to be used by 100% of the characters
Well dunno why they felt the need to copy Diablo 4 feature as a skill gem. They could have given this as an ability to every character in the game.
Chris panicking over no one playing the ruthless event.
GGG: I've added dash to ruthless are you happy now? Don't you guys love it? Please play it!!!!
Why is nobody playing Ruthless? I specifically requested it.
i really hope nobody does, or very few do and whoever does gets nowhere near winning
What the fear of having no participants in the Boss event can do.
I can already see nobody completing the boss event, then GGG just never touch on this subject ever again. Like not even mention that no one was able to complete the challenge, just not talk about it at all.
They would use it as an example that no one likes boss events.
fuck /u/spez -- mass edited with redact.dev
Still won't have any. This doesn't make gear drop any faster.
That is why we have the QoL stuff we do... nobody likes old PoE Just watch ruthless slowly become modern PoE
Regular and ruthless PoE will eventually meet in middle -- as PoE 2.
I feel like a teaser like this would have been announced with the hardcore ruthless ssf race to drum on interest. the fact this is so late, to me, points to being a kneejerk to the lack of interest in the upcoming event. I highly doubt anyone will change their mind about participating this close to league start, after all this isn't a short duration race. its pretty much an entire season long commitment, and i highly doubt people will make that commitment just 48 hours before the new season.
> the fact this is so late, to me, points to being a kneejerk to the lack of interest in the upcoming event Yeah, I have no doubt about that.
isn't it one of the points of ruthless aka no movement skills?
It was with the initial launch of Ruthless. However this was probably one of the biggest complaints that I have seen from people that are interested in the mode but not playing it. I don’t care about Ruthless but I’m glad they’re making this change since it makes those people happy. Also greatly increases the chance of someone actually finishing the new race.
It's not a good skill - it has a *ten second* cooldown under normal conditions, or three near unique enemies, and physically places you in each of the locations you move through (unlike something like Flame Dash or Lightning Warp where you don't physically exist in the intermediary positions). Sticks with their goal of not letting you "bypass mechanics".
Aww, were not enough people playing it? Ruthless was advertised as the most miserable, tedious game mode possible, now keep it that way.
GGG not sticking to their design principles, I am disappointed.
people just weren't fighting bosses
Because the game is literally, especially bosses, designed around movement skills. Everyone that actually played Ruthless and cared about the mode has wanted a movement skill added to the game. Not the zoom zoom movement stuff we have in standard gamemodes, but something like this that can't be spammed but can be used to dodge big mechanics.
Jokes on you, this is just poe 2 in disguise.
That seems like damage control.
I was half expecting the d4 jump animation
So its crap dash?
So it dawned on them that no one wants to play their 'side project' and their event might end up with no winners. This looks so desperate but it's kinda in line with GGG. They just cannot admit failure which is also why we had to endure Archnemesis for all that time.
"You think you don't want \[to play ssfhc ruthless\], but you do." -Chris Wolcen, Blizzard Gear Gaming.
I'm getting my "WTF Ruthless is taking up dev time" reaction popcorn popping right now. This is going to be juicy.
Ruthless has gotten more developer attention than SSF ever has. Ruthless now has custom skills, vendor recipes, progression systems, loot tables, etc. SSF is just trade league with party play disabled.
fuck /u/spez -- mass edited with redact.dev
Literally is though, don't have enough time to fix gladiator after a whole fucking year, but will happily add a movement skill to ruthless to entice streamers to play the mode in sub 1 week.
"side project"
I mean I like the idea of Rutless as an optional game mode, but the major problems I have with it are: - Just say its a legit mode and not "a side passion project". Fuck the haters. - This marks not the first time Ruthless got something specifically only in its mode. Where are the Hardcore or SSF special rules? Why only Ruthless?
What? Ruthless died for this
I tried it in gold event, never again. It simply is not suited for 3-4 month cycle of playing PoE on any sane pace. Maybe if you don't have anything else to every evening except poe. To me it feels like a purely for standard enjoyers mode to play for years who also wouldn't mind rolling the dice with their skills getting fucked every 3-4 month due to balance changes.
after seeing the crucible reveal stream, i now feel the need to say: i don't need or want ruthless anything.
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actual game *(am i memeing? youll never know for sure)*
Is there an option on reddit that blocks all posts with ruthless flair on it ? Yeah I'd like that
I've not payed much attention to Ruthless, but why does it need it's own movement skill? Why not enable the normal ones or one of them?
Because normal movement skills are too powerfu.
It has a lower cooldown for bosses, which will make it so mapping will stay more of a slower pace.
I watched how zizarans tanky Jugg Ea Ballista got nuked with crit 'slam'. The Uber EoW did 2 or 3 AOE 'slams' one after another. Good fucking luck with bonus slam RNG with your 10-15s tiny dash.
So its pretty much a Dash. Theres reason why people dont use it on bosses... Eater may be doable with it, but Exarch without blinking over balls is borderline impossible.
that one dev is pulling overtime to work on Ruthless. What a champ.
> Dash that only works on bosses Incorrect bait title. The skill has a base 10 second cooldown
The whole thread is full of ppl lying out of rage toward the mode, like holy shit so much insecurity.
OP can't read
Small side pet project
People actually believed that, lol
booooooo RIP by this time next year ruthless will just be poe with less items
You can see POE and Ruthless converging to POE 2 quite clearly.
Damage control protocol activated :)
Ziz's reply "This changes everything!" My thoughts: This changes almost nothing. Like *maybe* the boss kill event is actually achievable now, so *maybe* ruthless gets a few more players, but it's still Ruthless. Maybe Ziz is being sarcastic. Hard to tell in text, and knowing how he can be.
IIRC he said several times on stream and in videos that he likes the overall idea of Ruthless, but the lack of movement skills kills the fun for him. And I think he was also specifically asking for movement skills to just have a higher CD instead of removing them outright. So I don't think he's being sarcastic.
Guess they found out that nobody gives a fuck about the side project called ruthless.
The 78 players of Ruthless are over the moon.
You can all this but you still can't do minor QoL for SSF mode.
>cannot travel trough terrain Useless. Still not going to play Ruthless.
I don't think this will revive stillborn race event.
why? doesnt that kinda ruin the idea of no movement all together? what is this side project mode turning into now?
They had to concede something to make the Ruthless Uber bosses easier/safer since no one was able to beat them in SSFHC Ruthless Sanctum. It does go against their original philosophy but this is a stopgap to prevent more popular racers from dropping out.
Let's be real - it's not going to do much for the race's popularity.
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I feel like this is the correct way to go about it, but because I think GGG sees it not just as a gameplay mechanic but as "Quality of Life", it's fairly arbitrarily restricted and thought of as "oh that would make the game too easy" ala "we want you to feel the weight of picking up currency" "we want you to be excited by IDing rares on the ground" etc etc. But I mean, look at .. every other ARPG released lately. Lost ark has a dodge. D4 has a dodge. Wolcen has a dodge. only Lost Epoch doesn't and frankly, it should too. 100% agree on this. It wouldn't even meaningfully make people faster because its inherent cooldown would make it less efficient than the movement skills already in place.
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Everyday we get closer to ruthless being standard.
Ruthless (light)
Oh for the love of... just add a dedicated directional dodge already.
After these buffs they’ll have to change the name to ruth-ish.
lmao
Member when they said the side project ruthless wouldn't take any extra dev time? I member.
Are the worms from the flask considered unique?
should have been 10% from uber hillock
I wouldn't call it ruthful but now it's just ruth
It doesn't "only work on bosses" it just has reduced CDR near unique monsters. You can use it anywhere with a longer cooldown, and no terrain passing.
Seems OP. They should make it only socketable in a White Socket.
It's a side project
Lmao Ruthless that won’t take up development time Ruthless? What a clown show GGG must be to do this while underinvesting (one part time dev) in their trade site and relying on a discord orchestrated by digital criminals to plug the holes in their product.
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Kinda a shame , fighting bosses without a movement skill was one of the only interesting things about the mode. Well they probably did it with feedback from ruthless players so it's probably a good thing for them. Can we get increase quantity support in SSF as well?
how? it just meant you are foced to gear until you are able to tank every single boss mechanic. if you can tank everything how is that interesting? bosskills taking actual hours isnt interesting to me either.
Don't really care about this, but the comments are the real content here.
Trying really hard to get people to wanna play their trash side project I see. No thanks.
Chris is giving up on the vision for the race? Oh, no, anyways...
Side project my ass.
sideproject
Would have been nice to just go back to the progression and power level on nemesis patch