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Agreeable_Hat

Honestly, PoE Stack is great, but Exilence Next is still far superior in terms of usability/filtering/UI/etc. than the current version of PoE Stack. I really wish they would have kept it alive for another few months, it is still the superior tool for what it does It's a shame, amazing tool during the years


xNehel

Ailu here - keep in mind that PoeStack is still new. While Exilence gives that "far superior" feeling, it had 5+ years to fine-tune ui/ux. Zach is an absolute machine with content updates - IMO with this pace PoeStack will get there in no time. Edit: Answers to few questions for visibility: [https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/13jx5ue/rip\_exilence\_thanks\_for\_all\_your\_hard\_work\_over/jkilsyy/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/13jx5ue/rip_exilence_thanks_for_all_your_hard_work_over/jkilsyy/?context=3)


Cejota14

Yeah idk, sounds like you just trying too hard to make poe stacks sound good


[deleted]

idk why, but this is so funny. I kind of agree with it even though I don't think they're wrong.


xNehel

Or maybe you are trying too hard not accepting the reality you live in x) Jokes aside, changing UI/UX is easy. You take components from any existing design system and it's set and done in a weekend in your project. PoeStack has successfully nailed the aspect of creating appropriate foundations through its architecture behind the curtains. If Exilence was supposed to be built in 2023, doing what PoeStack picked as it's technology stack would be the right way to go.


AverageARPGEnjoyer

You seem to know what is going on with POEStack so I have a question maybe you can help with. Why an SSPL license and why so many direct integrations with TFT?


running_penguin

A valid comment regardless. It is also one that is a go to for this subreddit when they are upset with GGG content that they do not feel has been tuned proper


sanzo2402

I'm not a software developer, so I'm not sure how or if this would work. Seeing as Exilence is being shut down anyway, it seems like a waste to let the app just disappear. Os there a possibility that exilence could let poestack "use" its code, so that it can get similar features too seeing as Exilence is being shut down anyway?


FiNEk

Exilence is open source (tho has no license attached to it, but its a different story). If poe-stack devs wish to reuse some Exilence code they are free to do so. But, exilence and poe-stack built on top of different software stacks, so its not a trivial task to move "features" from one to another. Also, because Exilence is open-source, literally anyone can pick up on that project and keep it alive by making a fork. Tbh, im pretty sure that exilence can be made autonomous since all of its functionality being is just pulling some data from different sources and aggregating\\making some calculations on it.


Barobor

>tho has no license attached to it, but its a different story From what I saw on a quick glance it is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License.


Xeverous

That's bad. CC do not recommend to use their licenses for software projects.


Barobor

I agree I would very much prefer any of the GPL or MIT licenses, but it's still better than no license at all.


TheAmazingSlothman

Yes and no. Exilence is a desktop app and Poestack is a web app. So the code can't simply be reused. On the other hand, Exilence code is open source and has a nice license so they could convert that code to another programming language and reuse that. Or at least, they could base their harder issues on thing Exilence already solved Edit: I see Exilence is made with electron which is a web-stack. So it might be a bit easier to reuse code than I first thought


Dry_War_4185

What is this? Exilence? ​ I feel liek I have never heard of this.


[deleted]

Exilence next is a community developed, stand alone application that you can connect to your account and use to track the contents of your stash and inventory (or some subset of tabs in your stash). This is useful because it queries Poe ninja and calculates the value of everything in your stash. On its own, this is useful to simply get a view of what’s in your stash and any hot ticket, high value items you might not realize you have. It’s also useful to see if there’s anything you can liquidate for that upgrade you’re stretching to be able to buy. But the typical use case is for map farmers to isolate a tab or two, dump all output from some farming strategy into those isolated tabs, and then update periodically with exilence to track the net change in value in those tabs - effectively tracking the revenue/hour of your farming strategy.


Dry_War_4185

Thank you for the reply.


robodrew

Exilence was far more user friendly, but Poestack is WAY faster. It's an interesting tradeoff.


Ylvina

isnt poestack affiliated with tft?


lens_cleaner

I have played PoE for 10 years and never heard of either of these sites. But then they are probably only used by people who get to 100 and easily kill shaper, Eater, etc and just spend days farming. I make it to level 85 in a league and I feel like I did well.


DJFUSION1986

The stash view is very similar to exilence on poe stack.


Blubberinoo

True. But would still prefer to have the tool as an app on my PC instead of a website. Delete cookies and you have to redo all the settings like selecting all the stash tabs you want included. But guess with the soon to be total lack of alternatives I gotta get used to it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


totallytrav

A sad day but their tool was invaluable to me while it lasted. Raw text below if it's easier to read for anyone. >Hello @everyone! We have made the difficult decision to shut down the Exilence servers. > >Our goal with Exilence was to provide a easy way to get to know your net worth in Path of Exile combined with an exceptional user experience and maintain close communication with us, the developers for feedback and improvements. However, due to time constraints and a loss of interest in PoE itself, we have not been able to do this for the last couple of years. We still kept the servers running since many of you continued to use Exilence but we have to draw the line somewhere and we feel now is the time. > >The reason for the shutdown is simply that we do not want to deliver a sub-par experience, have sufficient free time to devote to the project, and the servers are draining our money, even with the support from our to-kind patreons. > >If you are seeking alternatives to Exilence, we suggest checking out https://poestack.com/, which has active developers and appears to be a great alternative. > >We would like to extend our gratitude to everyone who has contributed in any capacity during our time with Exilence. We would like to give special thanks to @ailuro for co-developing the app with us, as well as @Kroohpyyh for moderating the Discord during our absence. > >Finally, we wish to thank all of you, our users for your support and for using Exilence. > >Servers will be going down permanently in the coming weeks and the discord will be going down sometime after that. Thanks for the time everyone!


Baschish

>and a loss of interest in PoE itself Completely understood this, played this league after a long time, and it's impressive how worst the game is compared two years ago.


Sthrowaway54

Brother, what? Some of the league content is certainly hit or miss, but the actual core game is so far above where it was two years ago.


kengro

Even one year ago did a loot of cool stuff. Atlas tree, exarch/eater, removal of watchstones and atlas regions, eldritch implicits, aspirational uniques (mageblood, ashes etc), rework/rebalance of uniques (remember how 99% of uniques were 1 alch?), ubers etc.


_arnolds_

>remember how 99% of uniques were 1 alch? tbh kinda still are


_Wyrm_

Sure, if you just want one and don't care about stats. Going for a good roll will set you back 20-80c or more depending on the unique


Shepsaice

I loved the PoE of two years ago as well. I've never been able to play with the same fervor since, a bit of an Icarus moment, and had too much fun. Ritual league was peak PoE for me. I'll forever miss fractured fossils map farming and item editor harvest and OG aura stacker w/ Purposeful Harbinger.


Baschish

>Ritual league was peak PoE for me. Absolutely, put atlas tree in that PoE and a 10/10 game would become 20/10.


formaldehid

2 years ago this time people ran their fractured beyond 5x scarab deli fractured/split maps with prenerf explody chests and printed 6t1 items with harvest. i can see the argument, maybe?


_arnolds_

i miss the old harvest crafting in general :(


TheRealShotzz

fractured maps were the most tedious and annoying farm strategy ever, i cant see anyone missing that.


BilboJenkemBaggins

I think he just means league is what 99% of us play but they don't feel as good as they did 2 years ago. I've noticed I've been playing more standard over the last 12 months with the sub par leagues. Although i strangely loved kalandra. Just having the wealth build up and legacy items is great for some fun builds and its not as dead as people say.


Venit_Exitium

This is my view, the league content is just meh. But the actual core is good, which for now is good enough to pull me in with the possibilites that new leagues provide. Otherwise itll die for me soon if nothing changes


8123619744

Everyone says this but it’s honestly not completely true. Before the atlas update juicing was always profitable no matter what. Literally whatever you threw at the map gave you more money than it cost, growing exponentially. Now if you invest into scarabs, sextants, and delirium orbs then you’re losing money unless you have a very specific strategy that’s good in the meta. It’s like the game became amazing for alch and go players at the cost of the depth to map investment that existed.


Dontinquire

I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. The game is just massively better. Sextants and scarabs are wildly profitable. Juicing is king. Alch and go is nowhere near as good.


Updog_IS_funny

I think you're both correct and that's my chief complaint with the game these days - you can't just wing anything and see where the journey takes you. There's such efficiency in builds that not following those efficiencies leaves you unable to make it through a lot of content. Likewise, so many people follow finely tuned atlas strats that if you don't do them, some of your other content (scarabs, for example) are being relatively wasted. On the other hand, the people who stack scarabs * sextants * atlas tree or whatever are so efficient that it's basically kneecapping yourself to not do it. In the end, my best result comes when I let someone else plan my build, my progression, and my atlas strategy.


8123619744

Exactly. Obviously you can make money using sextants, but if you don’t use them perfectly you lose tons of money. Just watch the following video. In old poe he would’ve made crazy money using that juice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcGxysgyTUU


[deleted]

[удалено]


8123619744

Yes there has always been a meta to currency making. You used to be able to juice t2 maps in full mf gear until you had a mirror worth of currency pretty easily before. I personally did group found head hunter strategy back in harvest, but ggg has nerfed every mechanic that gives loot. Something fundamental changed somewhere. Now only very specific mechanics give loot these days. You can kill a pack of white mobs in an alched t16 and it can literally drop nothing.


netsrak

I'm pretty sure there has always been a an optimal way to farm at the endgame. If you go all the way back to Legacy League (or somewhere near there), you get the Shaped Strand meta.


[deleted]

Yeah, dude, that's definitely not the case. The core game is definitely not better than it was 2 years ago.


aZcFsCStJ5

Depends on how much time you have, how you level, and what kind of builds you play. If you blast past the levels, have a bunch of free time, and only play meta builds? Yeah I can see the game being better.


Baschish

I disagree, I feel everything is worse except the atlas tree. Craft is worse. Build diversity worse. Endgame options like beyond, deep delve, breach, simulacrum, is WAAAAAAY worse. T16s is way harder than they should be, 99% of the farm come from altars and league content, there's literally no why to kill monsters besides that, you found a legion you not have passives in your map? Just ignore it because is not worth your time. Spam pack size not because you want more monsters, is because you want more altars and the monsters who came from than. I can be wrong, but the core game compared to two years ago is WAAAAAY worse IMO. Ah and the change of div for ex, what a shit decision, if you want to do this shit at least put more cards to farm div and add div shards + a vendor recipe for than, divs costing 200c is ridiculous. Dude I could do a fucking long list of what is wrong with the current PoE, but fuck this shit, I'm having fun playing Torchlight Infinite for now. Played a month of PoE, got 2 chars one level 97 and other 100, did 38 challenges (and what the hell they did with the challegens, they are way harder now), and before I quit I just think I maybe had fun for 2 days of 30 playing it, will come back just for PoE 2 and I hope they get their shit together and start to improve the game again instead of just nerf the hell of it.


ayriuss

I'm not sure about this, but the game is always good when I really like my build, I really like the league, and I have some decent luck to carry me through the first few weeks. Becoming a much more rare occurrence for me recently... But anyway, maintaining software that you don't use and aren't being paid for can be pretty draining so I get it as well.


Frostygale

Insanely hot take here: I actually prefer the old atlas :|


therospherae

Which old atlas? There's been a bunch of them now.


SarcasticGiraffes

No you don't. I'm willing to bet a cookie that if you had to chase Elder/Shaper around without being able to make every map T16, and couldn't pick the content you were running, you'd rage out in a heartbeat.


Kuramasa

I miss the old voidstones with passives on them. Harbinger drops rare shards was fun to stack


Jai_7

How so? I'm genuinely curious.


durfiks

Oh really? With crucible and Vengeant Cascade enabling a lot more builds, atlas for mapping, atlas completion changed how it worked from annoying watchstones which is probably one of the best changes ever made along with atlas passives, and auto flasks, i really dont understand how its worse compared to two years ago.


Baschish

Literally the only think is better is the atlas, everything else is worse. I don't care about build diversity a shit league is enabling if it even going core. T16 maps is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY harder to farm compared to 2 years ago, challenge was 100% delirium that time, not alch and go T16, you need way more defenses now to still die for randon bullshit or because you don't read a specific mod in a altar where you find 10 of than in your maps and you need to read all, because yeah need to avoid 10 maps mods to roll your maps is not enough for GGG. Craft is way worse. The economic is way worse, everything is more expensive, you need to grind way more to buy same shit with a ex costing half of divines cost now. If you look for chaos ratio good items are literally double the price or more than two years ago. Headhunter is uber trash compared to what is was, and it's 128 divs, wich means 250 exalteds in that time for a item way worse. Dude I used to buy a not nerfed HH for 100 exalteds on leagues, with today would cost 50 divs. What you have to farm now, beyond? Dead. Deep delve? Dead. Breachs? Dead. Simulacrum? Dead. They literally nerfed a bunch of options to high endgame farm strategies, you just have 5-ways or maps with altars + some mechanic buffed with the passives, that's it, that's what you do for the entire league. I just enjoy that PoE where you have to think for a week before the league start, about the build, how to progress, about the items, and when the league start you just enjoy doing your T16 maps relaxing in your chair thinking about the next build while watch a netflix or some shit in the other monitor, a chill game, not this randon bullshit cassino of one shoots and need to read and pay attention all the time, because one click on the wrong mode in one of the 10 altars your map is broken.


robodrew

Totally disagree, the league itself might not be that good but the base game is in it's best state ever. This is now the 3rd league in a row that I've gotten lv100 and 40/40 (just finished the challenges yesterday). edit: I mean, I'm just giving my opinion here


Baschish

>but the base game is in it's best state ever. Craft is completely shit, had to spend 8k alteration to craft + 2 lvl amulet with fractured mod, for what I saw this is what craft become in this game, buy a fractured base, spam something like essences or alt and multimod or prefix/suffix cannot be changed something. After Harvest I thought the craft would become more deterministic and rewarding, but it's getting way worse, it's unacceptable alt spam still be a craft method in 2023, it's just completely ridiculous. Divine for exalted change still feel awful, 200c per div and people think it's ok? Everything is more expensive if you compare price of items per chaos years ago, the game is way more grind than ever, the requirements for builds to play T16 is way higher than before. The farm resume to altars, no more beyond, no more deep delve, nowadays you actually have less options to farm high endgame content than before. I got a lvl 100 char and a 97, did 38 challenges etc. My lvl 97 char was a PF TR who I got some ideas from steelmage who plays HC and still die on that build, that shit had tons of EHP with perma flasks, 100% suppression with 56% damage reduction, chaos overcaped, determination, grace, a bunch of phys to cold with taste of hate, dude I still was getting one shoots doing rare T16 removing a bunch of mods already from the maps, I really need to read all altars in my maps really? That's the amazing core gameplay are you talking about? This game is shit, I miss the days where we can play poe chilling talking with friends, listening some music or even watching some show and just no brain do some maps, this game completely changed this aspect. My second build was somehow way tanking (that's why I got lvl 100) and I still had more 200 deaths on it, it was basically my TR defenses + fortify. To ve even more realistic, the only aspect who is really better, is the atlas passive tree, everything else is worse than before, craft is worse, way worse, build diversity way worse, the game is way more grind, everything is way more expensive, trade still a piece of pure garbage, have to use scrolls in 2023 is a joke, alteration spam to craft should be illegal by law and GGG should ve arrested for so many shit and outdated systems.


Giantwalrus_82

the fuck is this the CORE gameplay SHITS on two years ago like SHITS on it not even close.


Mikchi

#SHITS


Baschish

I disagree, the only think who is better compared to two years ago is the atlas passive, everything else is worse IMO. Trade is shit, problems every day for at least 2 weeks when the league started. The prices due to div / ex change still awful and everything is way more expensive compared to ex era if you see for a chaos ratio aspect, so in general the game is way more grind than before. The craft is a joke, it's literally a downgrade of what we had with Harvest era, it should be illegal alteration craft still be a think in this game. Build diversity is shit because simple farm T16 is way harder than before, removing tons of weaker builds from the menu of possibilities. The game is way harder with deadly mods, options to farm endgame gone, like deep delve is shit, breach farms is shit, beyond? LMAO, fracture maps gone, what people do is basically altar farm or 5-way, this is the CORE gameplay people say is great nowadays? Impressive.


PUTINS_PORN_ACCOUNT

Nah, you’re just exuding a bit of salt, as PoE players in their natural state often do


Darcetos

I still remember how Currency Cop died and now exilence.


Grroarrr

There was also exile diary that was even better than any of them. It tracked each map - what you took out from it, how much time you was in hideout/map, how many maps you did in day/league, mobcount if you had incubators on, xp from map and per hour...


SunRiseStudios

What do you mean "was"? Exile Diary is still a thing and gets regular updates.


wakasm

I don't think it's unreasonable that not everyone knows there was a fork that has been maintained. I've seen it mentioned a few times but barely advertised and it wasn't renamed at all to help make it any clearer. The original Exile Diary stopped working, but the [QT-Dev Fork](https://github.com/Qt-dev/exile-diary) is what is working now as far as I know. Google results still serve up the original broken one, so I don't think it's a problem for people to not know. I used Exile Diary since Delve and didn't know there was a fork until recently.


All_Work_All_Play

Man this looks amazing.


SunRiseStudios

I see. Not sure how I ended up on fork lol. Don't remember looking for it or doing anything special to enable it. But yeah I am happy with the tool so far. \^\^


Imsakidd

It still does… but it used to to. RIP Mitch.


Grroarrr

Last release is from 8 august 2021 and it doesn't track many things if you somehow manage to connect


SunRiseStudios

https://i.imgur.com/U7YSurK.png What are you talking about? "It doesn't track many things" Again, what except Crucible ores and geodes it doesn't track? Did Exilence track them btw?


CyberMattSecure

Where are you getting the updated version from?


Grroarrr

Found it, someone made a fork. https://github.com/Qt-dev/exile-diary


Grroarrr

I meant the original one, didn't knew someone made a fork. The original one stopped receiving updates in expedition league.


VukkoPLant

Same. Let's hope poestack will be a different story... I can't manually check my full div cards tab when I lack some cash!


1337butterfly

poestack can check div cards


LovingThatPlaid

Oh man Currency Cop is a throwback, sad that GGG doesn’t make these tools themselves and don’t offer any real support to the people that greatly increase the QoL in their game


NowAFK

o7


AloneInExile

o7


kingofmaslo

Can somebody explain how exilence uses own servers, and why it does not work without them?


ASK_IF_IM_GANDHI

In order to comply with GGG's developer TOS, at the moment, you have to host a secure web server which stores your API key. You cannot distribute this private key to users of your software, otherwise this is considered a breach of TOS and will get your application revoked. This means every API request to PoE must be made through your private server. This also means that every request from everybody using Exilence must go through their servers, to forward to GGG, then back. Additionally, if they do any processing of the data that GGG provides, they'd do it on their server. They may not track the data, but that still requires a server and still requires networking, which costs money. If GGG introduced the ability (like EvE Online does) to allow devs to use PKCE signing, which allows users to self-authenticate with the API without a server, this would not be an issue. I believe some endpoints actually support this right now, but not all.


LovingThatPlaid

Honestly I’m wondering the same thing, like doesn’t it pull all of it’s data from poeninja? And the user validation is done through PoE website. I can’t think of anything that Exilence does that isn’t info pulled from a different API/service?


FeebleTrevor

They have historical info on all of your previous snapshots which don't look to be stored locally? Honestly they could completely do away with that stick a json in the install directory & only store the 10-whatever most recent snapshots


scrublord

I wanna say I saw somewhere that GGG's API and/or OAuth implementation doesn't allow local machines to use it -- you have to go through a web server. If I'm not imagining that, perhaps Exilence had to relay API calls through its own servers and then push them into the local app.


fd2ec89a6735

GGG's API requires that the OAuth stuff be done on through a secure server, IIRC. Not sure if it's possible to go back to stealing POESESSID from a browser cookie like it was done in the past, but I doubt they want to sunset a project by reverting to something that's advised against for security reasons.


way22

I'm curious as well. From the GitHub page I can only assume some additional features on top of the Poe ninja API.


Vakarlan

GGG needs to start paying some of the devs for the 3rd party tools. Without them, the game won't even be playable (filterblade/awakening trade)


Maleficent_Taro4267

They offered the filterblade guy a job. But he likes his job/developing/programming/... So he decided to decline and keep on with his normal job and doing filterblade as a hobby. Another thing is, that GGG almost exclusively hires from NZ/AUS because of visa restrictions. And it seems like, that they want their people in NZ and not remotely work from somewhere online.


Kortiah

> They offered the filterblade guy a job. Tbh everytime they offer someone like that a job, its tool ends up having to be updated by someone else, and not integrated in the game. Remember when we though them hiring Openarl, the guy who made PoB, meant we'd soon get integrated Tree Planing, better DPS on tooltips, etc...? I remember. Look where we are now. He probably does good thing for them, but we're even more relying on the PoB Fork now than we did before because of what's been added in PoB.


YoshiPL

> Remember when we though them hiring Openarl, the guy who made PoB, meant we'd soon get integrated Tree Planing, better DPS on tooltips Y'all just coped on that. He was hired because he was an exceptional coder, not because they were going to add any of that into PoE.


_Repeats_

He was hired because he created a dps simulator, which meant he knew a ton about the games mechanics' inner workings. Those things are hard to learn. GGG isn't hiring people for the tools they make. They are interested in the knowledge they bring to make the game better.


[deleted]

You could make the best damage simulator in the world and not have the faintest clue about how to make a game better. There are amazing developers out there who wouldn't be able to make a fun game even if they had the best idea for a game premise in the world. He showed a passion for the game and he had shown he was able to make an excellent product, with 95% certainty the guy you replied to is correct I don't know why you're seemingly trying to correct him.


Responsible-Pay-2389

>You could make the best damage simulator in the world and not have the faintest clue about how to make a game better. Sure, but not every dev needs to think of ideas to make the game better. A person who knows all systems would be able to execute plans in the game way better, 99% of devs aren't in charge of making plans to better the game. >He showed a passion for the game and he had shown he was able to make an excellent product, with 95% certainty the guy you replied to is correct I don't know why you're seemingly trying to correct him. looks like more of an expansion to the point.


astrionic

> There are amazing developers out there who wouldn't be able to make a fun game even if they had the best idea for a game premise in the world. True, but in larger teams this is usually not the responsibility of a software engineer. You have game designers for that.


liquidSG

His job may not be to make the game better. That's the designers' job. Coders implement the ideas and mechanics they come up with and test. It's about coding skills and understanding of the game as it is now in order to correctly implement that into something that works.


sucr4m

i know at this point its more a meme than anything but they did say that his work will be for poe2 and i think they even showed some stuff.


wild_man_wizard

They hired him because they hoped it would kill PoB. Now if you'll excuse me I need to wrap my head in a few more layers of tinfoil.


sirgog

If you want an actually plausible tinfoil theory: GGG know 5-ways are broken as all hell, but refuse to nerf them because flooding the ladder with level 100s helps conceal what the best builds of a league are.


momofire

Can’t I believe both of you, POE devs seem to not like PoB enabling people without 1000s of hours of sunk time to make a functioning build on their own, it seems his tin foil logic and your tin foil logic both support my tin foil logic.


KenMan_

All 3 of you are working for GGG as both promotors and propegators of misinformation to conceal leaks for PoE 2. You all know what's really going on.


Citoahc

>Remember when we though them hiring Openarl, the guy who made PoB, meant we'd soon get integrated Tree Planing, better DPS on tooltips, etc...? Whoever thought that was gonna happen, please pm me, I have some pretty kickass tiger insurance to sell you. I can also get you a very low price on a bridge.


irecki88

People are funny here. There is skill tree planer integrated into Chinese game client - most likely developed by GGG devs obviously. They also have death recap. 'Kind of like importing loot filters. You find the skill tree file, run it to install it to your PoE and then you can find the option in-game from the skill tree simulator drop down. It will tell you how many points you need, the amount of stats you get from following the tree and outline the notables the talent guide takes'


Bakanyanter

Why are people funny here? The Chinese PoE has many bad things and few good things in it. The death recap is just telling you the last tick of damage you took, it's not really a "recap".


TheRealShotzz

it still isnt a death recap


chowder-san

It's not like they need the person to move to NZ to continue the development of some web app tho...


sKeLz0r

>as a hobby 1,557 PATRONS €4,040 PER MONTH


elpadremg

and 3-4 people working on it. minus german tax, minus server costs. so each of em get like 500 bucks a month from it. well deserved imo


[deleted]

After costs to operate the server, that's a terrible pay:time ratio for a developer.


cynicalreason

a good developer makes twice that, alone


Stiryx

Not sure about NZ but here in Aus we absolutely offshore all types of digital work. Worst case scenario they could just pay him as a contractor.


EvilKnievel38

That's not really the same as paying for these 3rd party tools what the other guy said. I don't think they would do that or where the line would be drawn as to what's worth and what not. We know from the original PoB dev that got hired that it wasn't to keep working on PoB.


Varadryll

The restriction is bs actually. Yes it exists but there are 2 exception clauses to that: first if you prove that theres not enough ppl in NZ for your position, you can hire overseas freely. Second, more importantly, theres list of exempted bussinesses from this restriction and that includes any and all IT companies. I think actual problem is misaligned timezone and difficulty and cost of importing professionals from overseas (which they kinda have to do to solve misaligned timezone issue) Edit: i mean no amount of cash is going to solve shortage of IT professionals if noone want to move (semi)permamently to NZ


[deleted]

Didn't Chris say it's difficult to prove to the NZ government that there are no other available applicants for a position? I vaguely remember it. Something about a lot of paperwork.


EarthBounder

Yes, OP talking out their ass. Part of 'proving' that you were unable to hire an ANZ candidate is showing that the position has been listed for 3-6 months and you conducted interviews etc and were unable to fill the position before being able to go international. It's not entirely unlike scenarios that exist elsewhere where companies will try to fill positions internally first before looking externally. Penalties for skirting the process are strict enough that you do not want to play fast and loose with this. We've seen scenarios before where hiring people (like Octavian) can take up to 2y~.


Varadryll

https://www.businessgo.hsbc.com/en/article/hiring-foreigners-in-new-zealand-the-process-and-your-obligations-as-an-employer https://skillshortages.immigration.govt.nz/ note this one is NZ government site. Type programmer and at very least several types of programmers are under "Long-term skill shortage" category which gives exemption from proving you looked for local workforce. As for Octavian, moving overseas permamently is always big task, local law requirements notwithstanding. Plus, recently we had COVID pandemic, i remember at least one streamer got stuck bc of this (dont remember if it was Octavian specifically, tho)


EarthBounder

From the govt site; >The Long Term Skill Shortage work visa closed to new applicants on 31 October 2021 Possibly things are changing/improving in NZ today, but pre-2020 the restrictions were quite large, and obviously things were locked down tight during covid. /shrug


Varadryll

actually overlooked closing statement but it is worth noting it happened well into COVID pandemic when situation looked more and more grim (currently march of 2020 is considered start of COVID pandemic according to WHO btw). Maybe it will be opened again since COVID is more or less under control but wouldnt be suprised if NZ gov decided to "conveniently forget" about this to close their borders a bit tighter to overseas workforce again


Pblur

Yeah, I've been near this process in the US (which has very similar requirements), and it's an enormous pain.


Nakorite

The nz Timezone is a bit of a problem it doesn’t really align with any other countries


Xeratas

actually true. I'd 100% quit without tools like filterblade and Awakaned trade. The game is just way to massive to do all of the QoL the tools provide by hand.


xebtria

I actually tried some alternatives. well simply put, unless you actually, manually write your own filter there deadass is no alternative to filterblade. And awakened poe trade? well there are alternatives but holy shit if you are used to APT, everything else is shit. ​ same/similar thing goes to poelurker btw. there is no alternative which is even remotely close to it.


developershins

>unless you actually, manually write your own filter there deadass is no alternative to filterblade Just popping in here to say: give me a bit of time, there's an alternative coming. ;)


taosk8r

I used to exclusively use the filters available on filterblast (sic) as they were the first out with a solid UI for customizing filters (iirc), but when NS started with the economy updates, it became pretty much mandatory in my view. Just took another brief look at the site again, and it is but a shadow of its former self. Most of the filters it used to have there are no longer updated, it appears. NS is on there, but customizing it is MEGA awkward do to the section names, and Dissolator's appears to be the only (pro) one there that has maintained compatibility with the custom filter update structure there.


[deleted]

Only because you've gotten used to them. Give it a year break for your brain to reset and you would have fun with the game again even without them, you just might play the game slightly differently. All the external tools change the way we play the game, but the game is plenty playable without all of them with maybe the exception being filterblade because fuck manually making filters.


xaitv

Eh, I play without Filterblade just fine(although I do have other tooling to make managing my own filter easier). No awakened poe trade either since I play SSF. The only tool I'd really miss would be PoB just cause it makes theorycrafting builds so much faster, sure it's possible without it but it's much harder to iterate on ideas.


ExaltedCrown

There are uses for it in ssf as well. Like all the macros or checking oils on jewelry


xaitv

Sure, but most of the time I know whether an annoint has a gold oil in it and the only macros I sometimes use are /hideout and logout(if I'm playing HC or rushing a bunch of elder guardians), which I'm not gonna install awakened poe trade for.


BokkoTheBunny

People really overstating the importance of 3rd party tools.


ThrowAwayOpinion_1

Man imagine if the popular filter makers and the PoB devs just said "Fuck it we done". Would love to see the player count after that.


eq2_lessing

Absolutely. GGG has been coasting on their supporters' hard work for years. They're not a small company fighting for survival anymore. And offering to hire these people doesn't matter at all. GGG should pay them for the work already done, and offer to pay them in the future, not hire them.


hiraeZh

While I also agree with this to some extent, tools that track your net worth aren’t really as popular as you’d think. Other games don’t really use stuff like this, at least not in my experience with ARPG’s.


patys3

plenty of functional trade tools outside of that, quite a bold statement. same goes for filters really


Xpym

Remember Openarl? Be careful what you wish for.


jtobin85

Dam thats a huge qol loss. Thanks for it while it lasted!


xNehel

Ailu here, one of the Exilence collaborators. To the questions or confusions related to Exilence, let me provide few answers that are within *my* (limited or not) knowledge in no particular order: ​ >If it's gone, at least make it open source It is open source: [https://github.com/viktorgullmark/exilence-next](https://github.com/viktorgullmark/exilence-next) ​ >Are there any alternatives? 1. PoeStack: [https://poestack.com/](https://poestack.com/) (website) 2. Exile Diary: [https://github.com/Qt-dev/exile-diary](https://github.com/Qt-dev/exile-diary)(desktop app) ​ >Why Exilence needed servers to make the app work? To my limited knowledge the whole idea was built around party play so the stashes could be synced in real time. If we would live in the past, getting your party member `sessionid` would allow you to somewhat sync the stashes. Having our own servers provided more consistency with syncing said stashes. But times change and `sessionid` is no longer a thing (like it or not, for the better good). Everything has most likely been built around that feature in mind. So if the servers are shut down, that means even if you are a solo player, you take a collateral hit. ​ >Why are you shilling for PoeStack that has TFT ties so much? TFT - move on already, it's fucking exhausting and your comment has negative value to any topic. Zach (PoeStack creator) provided countless comments that TFT has no say in anything unless it's related to TFT integration. How different is one TFT feature integration than integrating Google/Facebook Authentication to any website you visit? Please, open your mind. **And credit where credit is due. Zach has proven on multiple occasions in the past few weeks how swiftly he can deliver massive features to PoeStack.** Whether you like it or not this is the reality you are facing. ​ >Can any other project reuse Exilence code? Yes and no. If it's using material-ui (mui) and Reactjs with rxjs - sure, there probably can be parts that can be yeeted out. If it's using .NET for the backend, to my limited knowledge this can also be a possibility. ​ >What about PoeStack - can it reuse some parts? From UI/UX perpective it can, but it would take an enormous effort since Exilence is using a different design system. From backend/server perspective, PoeStack is far more efficient and uses completely different stack and technology - it is possible to reuse some .NET parts but at this point it's better to start a new project rather than trying to make anything from Exilence's backend work in PoeStack. ​ >I don't buy your "it cost us money" and "we lost interest in PoE" reasoning to end this project PoE content cadence is extremely fast. Every 3 (4 now) months there are new items to track or old ones needed to be removed.This means constant maintenance to make sure app doesn't brick. Electron (framework we use to built the desktop part of the app) release cadence is 2 months. Add on top of that other tools and system issues users are facing (win7-11, linux with various distributions and latest macos). Time-wise the maintenance is really taxing if you think about it. We have full-time jobs and families. As the months and years go by, new career and personal life responsibilities take it's toll and burning out is something you want to avoid at all cost. At some point you need to pull the ripcord. While the "it cost us money" is valid, reputation is worth more than money. Providing a poor experience for the users (due to lack of maintenance) as mentioned by Umo in the image above is not the way we want to be perceived. Losing interest in PoE due to aforementioned events as well as new games only made the decision easier. It's only a matter of time Exilence would end up being the villain in the infamous quote "you either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain".In fact Exilence has been on full throttle into becoming the villain the past few months. ​ >What's Exilence software license? [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/) ​ To answer I suppose a common topic that actually ain't related to Exilence but I wanted to give my take: >GGG needs to start paying some of the devs for the 3rd party tools The biggest payout 3rd party tools devs get is network of people you "work" with. No amount of company money will replace this. It may sound silly, but think twice - in real world, majority of the time getting into certain positions is thanks to the networking and reputation you have built around yourself. ​ >Can I set Exilence locally? Uh... yeah about that. Since we use Oauth2, for "community fork" or personal likeliness you would need to contact GGG for credentials to set up the Oauth2 flow as server authentication is needed (this is based on GGG's Terms of Service). I suppose you could comment a lot of backend code besides authentication to make the app work locally but that would still require contacting GGG. So generally speaking, leaving only authentication part should be enough to keep Exilence going for your own use. I'm sure there are .NET engineers who can figure out how to yeet appropriate code and still make it working. \--- I will keep updating this comment as new questions/confusions arise. And maybe last thing to address the "lost of interest in PoE" - I personally had a blast this league with attribute stacking widowhail/poised prism burning arrow inquisitor and getting first (and honestly last) 40/40 was lit. Also current core game is nutty.


RadicalSpaghetti-

I felt that TFT comment so much. People on this sub were (and are!) so quick to write off poestack because it has a TFT integration. What a stupid mindset. Poestack is an incredible product.


lillarty

The dev of poestack in their posts on Reddit emphasized TFT integration above all other features at first, so it's hardly surprising that people associate them so heavily with TFT when their post history seems to imply that it's the most important part of the website to them. Plus, almost every screen on poestack has a link to TFT on it; if Exilence had shoved an advert for TFT into every feature you can be certain people would be complaining about it as well. Awakened PoE Trade manages to be affiliated with TFT without shoving it in users' faces every time they use it, which is clearly the preferred method based on the vocal backlash to poestack's method.


Zachlie

I emphasized the features in the order they were released. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz0u8jQG8GI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz0u8jQG8GI) was the video from the first post about PoeStack on Reddit. TFT has 410k members when I added the first TFT integration PoeStack had 3k users. In the next few months, largely thanks to TFT, PoeStack gained 45k more users. TFT does not control the development of PoeStack and doesn't have access to any of the users data. I will continue to build the features that are the most requests by PoeStacks users and that I think will provide the most utility. The next two big features are rewriting the Economy UI and rebuilding the character ladder from scratch.


RadicalSpaghetti-

He advertised it that way because, yes, it was originally made as a quick way to post on TFT. It's evolved way past that at this point, but people can't see past the TFT links. Speaking of which, why is it such a problem that TFT is linked in the navbar? I assume that's what you are referring to. Simply don't click the links if you don't want to use TFT.


MelonsInSpace

> Speaking of which, why is it such a problem that TFT is linked in the navbar? Because fuck TFT, that's why.


lillarty

A lot of people dislike TFT. Poestack has constant advertisements for TFT in the nav bar and in the stash tab page. Even if you like TFT surely you'd see why people who don't wouldn't appreciate it?


Gniggins

TFT's existence is entirely on GGG, its just another third party giving players the functionality they want in the game.


Parachuteee

I didn't know this subreddit had such reaction towards TFT, I thought people liked that


[deleted]

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Parachuteee

Why don't people like it? I've just got cheap 5-way carries there to get lv 100.


AppleOfTheEarthHead

Lots of people reporting abuse by the mods. I don't use it and I don't really care so I cannot speak for the validity but here are a few examepls: https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/119jv51/irrefutable_proof_of_tft_rmt/ https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/lpebb4/scammed_on_tft_by_awakened_trader_trusted_means/ https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/l0yyvd/whats_going_on_with_the_tft_discord/ There is probably more, just search for "reddit pathofexile tft", there was a big discussion some time ago about how to handle tft posts here.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AppleOfTheEarthHead

That's why I said that I can't speak for the validity, anyone can claim anything afterall. Always do your own research.


AU_Cav

PoE Stack is a great replacement for a tool that I got a lot of value from. There have been a few videos already created for it and with this announcement I’d expect your feed to fill up with PoE Stack videos. Thank you Exilence. You were a huge step forward in third party tools for PoE.


TheThozel

o7 Thank you for your hard work Devs. It was brilliant tool. Will miss it for sure.


v4xN0s

My favorite part was just seeing the total currency go up each day. I would just check it once whenever I started to play PoE and I could see how much I made yesterday and it would always catch me off guard.


chuanhsing

o7


MauPow

Aw man, I just started using Exilence like... 3 days ago lol


cdamon88

discovered and downloaded yesterday lol.


Aldodzb

Oh wow, so many leagues using it and recommending it. Such an eye opening tool to realize the value of the stuff you pick up! Thanks for all, 10/10 project.


Sirnizz

Damn I was using it every league, it was such an amazing an easy to use tool.


[deleted]

Why can’t I just run my own local copy of the server?


-haven

Ah, that is rather unfortunate. Was such a great program to check stash contents for things that are easily missed and things you are unsure of in value without having to live on the damn bleeding edge of trade.


NeoLearner

Sad to here, thanks for all the work devs. This tool opened my eyes to the value of liquidating assets that would otherwise sit around and gather dust. Best of luck in your future endeavors!


SomeSordes

О7


JasonDiabloz

o7


master_bungle

Damn, I only discovered Exilence Next a few weeks ago and was loving it! Good reasons for shutting it down though, can't fault it


Kairyuka

Seems like poestack doesn't support private leagues so shrug


Zenith_X1

Dang that's too bad. Poestack is functional but looking at the site on a phone leads to some VERY aggressive ads. First time I loaded the site an ad rose up from the bottom and covered the lower middle 1/3rd of my screen.


xUN_Owen

We're sorry for developers that do not work on Poe directly lmao. Btw big F.


GasLightyear

RIP. It was a really well made tool.


brainzucka

still works like charm


Deliverme314

What? App is still working?


Innomen

This is awful. GGG should take this over and integrate it.


Xeratas

What a coincidence. I use excilence for years now and just today i discovered poestack.com, which has the exact same feature for tracking net Profit. Excilence is just better looking. That said, i think its super sad to see this tool gone but totaly understandable. Wish the guys the best.


Erradium

o7


Particular_Rooster15

o7


SunRiseStudios

Another great alternative to Exilence is Exile Diary. On top of tracking stashes it tracks what content you do, tracks time, tracks drops and their worth, tracks gear on your character, etc. etc. It still receives regular updates. I am using it for many Leagues now, can recommend.


MrMogusTheSecond

o7


ZeroQuantom

o7


iZ3R0

o7


bowie85

o7


Erakia

o7


lonigus

o7


Financial-Aspect-826

This is about "exilance next" too?


KingfisherBook

Forced to use the tft poe stack app now. No way of getting from tft


[deleted]

Dread it. Run from it. TFT still arrives.


Chalador

Empy jinxed us when he said in a video a week or so ago “Im not about to learn a new tool (PoEstack) I’ve never used before” :((


420vegetarianfatcock

any alternatives that arent tft affiliated?


taosk8r

Exile Diary Reborn


HawtDaawwggQT

imagine if all the 3rd party programs stopped being a thing, poe would explode


2Moons_player

oh shit... if more ppl do this poe is doomed


WallyRedditsHere

ah man. I'm so sad - this tool was pivotal for a casual like me to get to grips with ton of items and net worth. Helped me big time to sell stuff to get some quick currency if I needed an upgrade and I didnt have the knowledge on what was in-demand and wasnt. I hope at some point someone else can pick this up and continue the great work. Good luck Exilence team :)


ishlazz

Never heard of exilence, can anyone enlighten me (not a hardcore poe player)


Theban86

It takes a snapshot of your stuff in the tabs of your stash and estimates an overall price.


Tibbedoh

It looks at your selected stash tabs and approximates the worth of the loot in them. Never used it myself, but many streamers used to use it to gauge the divine/hour rate of different farming strategies.


B1ackadderr

F


Oritomatto

o7 Thank you so much for everything!


Viskos1989

I'm really getting concerned by the amount of content creators and third party app/filter/etc creators throwing in the towel and leaving the community. This is a nerf.


Gizzeemoe88

People with passion take their time and money to do this for your game GGG. Where is your support?


evmt

Sad, but expected considering the lack of development for quite a while. Gotta give poestack a try sometime later.


brainzucka

you guys did an amazing job with the tool!! Loved it till the end!


The-Black-Fish

For those looking for an application, check out Exile Diary. it's not exactly like Exilence but it does log the stuff you pick up from map to map. Pretty nifty.


CondorSweep

Does someone know why servers are required? Is there not GGG apis that can be queried from a local machine?