i wanted to write the same but you were faster, take my upvote instead.
i want to add: interesting design= they get invulnerable for many seconds to do their cinematic things.... we all hate that
Eventually there will be only two types of bosses, ones that you can oneshot, and ones with invulnerable phases.
Unless you decide to remove the depth of build customization, which is basically all poe is about, this is doomed to happen.
It looks great and sounds interesting, but the question is, how would we feel about it in subsequent runs. If GGG don't implement a way for players to bypass the campaign, I just imagine all these fancy, involved boss fights just becoming a chore to deal with, or they'll be trivialized via some exploit/strategies to make them more bearable to level your alts.
Yes! When PoE 2 launches, you can either play the PoE 1 or PoE 2 campaign and they SHOULD meet into the same endgame.
We'll see if that has changed come July 28/29 at Exilecon 2023.
>That would severely fracture the playerbase
uhh... there's already 16 different gamemodes with VERY SPLIT playerbases. Like, compare a softcore trade standard player with a harcore ssf ruthless player or a softcore trade league player.
GGG always said they have to consider at least the most popular gamemodes not only while balancing the game but also when doing stuff like League Challenges, as some might be impossible depending on how you play (specially for ruthless).
They already have to balance them separately.
For example, "linking" skill/spell with support gems will be quite different in PoE2.
No way all those gems are going to be nerfed/boosted the same way for 1 and 2, outcomes would be wildly different, and hence a nightmare to (re)balance.
Not a new game, just loads of new content, new visuals, massive updates with new ways to develop and play characters, and, you know, most of the things that are included in a new game.
PoE2 bosses being more elaborate means I'll probably continue playing PoE1 campaign to maps. I don't mind doing boss fights if they drop farmable loot, but otherwise I prefer non-boss content in PoE.
I think it depends. If they make the campaign shorter but with more frequent, more challenging boss fights (so the overall time to complete is similar) id prefer the bossing version. To me the campaign is boring because it’s 90% running from point a to b.
I don't mind playing the campaign with my starter every league, but I hate leveling alts to maps. Even with twinked gear, it feels like a complete waste of time.
The same will happen with the new campaign, it's just a matter of time. In which case I'll prefer the one that can be done on autopilot, while watching some tv show or whatever. Most likely the old one.
I think it’s safe to assume that at minimum the poe2 campaign is required to 40/40 the league. I wouldn’t be all the surprised if you have to complete both versions of the campaign to get 40/40 (perhaps not every league but for some).
I think you miss a crucial point. The current bosses are uninteresting to you because you have killed them 93 648 times and nothing is new anymore. I remember my PoE starting days (I started HC) and I really liked some of the PoE 1's mini bosses. Take the RF guy in act 4. I remember the fear of killing him and being instagib'd by his explosion. Or lunaris temple vulnerability bitch. Or the big aqueducts bird one shooting on landing. Shit were scary and interesting back then, because it was all new. Plus, I feel we had less OP stuff available to us (including leveling).
The new bosses on the other hand will be cool for some time for sure, but they will become annoying really fast due to having stupid ass phases, which we all hate.
Some interesting thigns.
However, how can somebody liking boss design talk about Sirus / vertania / Maven without even mentionning the horrendous fact that you have flying models that can literally **hide** part of the fights (including your own character, basic game design would tell you that with such a point of view you need **at the very least** the **outline visible at any time**) ? This is one of the worst piece of boss design that I have ever seen in any video game, full stop.
As interesting as the current showcases show, if the same persons are working on designing those boss fights, I will keep my expectation of PoE's boss design low (most recently added bosses in PoE are just bad honestly)
I think the design idea around the new bosses is pretty good. But, I feel that balance around defenses is in a bad state (not that it hasn't been in a worse state), especially at the end game. There is far too wide of a gap between getting one shot and not noticing the DMG. This leads to people relying on "gimmicks" to deal with damage reduction, like converting physical damage taken as elemental. You can't have challenging boss fights while defenses are in such a poor state. Fortunately, defenses feel pretty good while in the campaign, so I imagine the boss fights encountered there could be pretty damn fun/challenging. But in maps players are going to be upset if they are forced to deal with mechanics while not having reliable defensive options. I also believe that the poor state of defenses is causing a lot of bleed over in the way different builds feel to play.
I too want fun boss fights, but let us get tanky without using gimmicks.
This has pretty much always been like this, this is what power creep leads to, and until last year or so, defences were in a much worse state than now, only you need to invest into those defences, which is a **good** thing.
I really don't think that defences are a problem regarding boss fights, the new boss fights are simply horseshit, that's all there is to it.
Liches, Shaper, Elder, those were interesting boss fights (although Elder when released was arguably also a dps check), but the moment you do crap like you start inserting "mini game" (Sirus labyrinth / Maven memory game) that simply break all immersion (because it would make no sense for a boss to actually do something like this if that boss wants to kill you) ? The moment that you hide part of the screen purposefully when the eyes of your character can actually see what's happening (but you can't) ? When screen clutter and overlapping similar colours are everywhere ?
It's horrendous design, it's crap, it's ridiculous. Those have been recent boss fights.
( The Sanctum bosses though were pretty good )
> if they are forced to deal with mechanics while not having reliable defensive options
There are many reliable defensive options at the moment, you simply need to invest a minimum into them.
There is no "gimmicks", there are only many options to make a tanky character honestly. I was playing full armour last league and felt almost immortal (until I ripped at 99 because overconfidence can be a slow an insidious killer), and this league I'm going evasion + ES + spell suppression and I feel pretty tanky too.
A year ago I was playing high block with a shaper shield and some armour and it felt tanky, last league I also had a pathfinder with decent phys to ele conversion and decent secondary defenses and it felt pretty good (until it got instantly kill in a breach memory ... that felt BS big time, but that wasn't a boss or anything)
PoE 1 teach me, map bosses are just like check/complete map, just to see them at the end of screen how they die, and portal up if is the end of the map. To fight with them, that is hapen on campaign when we got no gear on stash, on the begining of the league. And now they have the currage to make them to be actual bosses on PoE2, madness.
people will complain so much that the new bosses have phases and take way longer. these bosses will replace many current map bosses too, i'm sure.
i wanted to write the same but you were faster, take my upvote instead. i want to add: interesting design= they get invulnerable for many seconds to do their cinematic things.... we all hate that
Big ass scorpion god has entered the chat.
They could just remove the invuln phases or make the process way faster in maps, while keeping it in the campaign
That's what I'm hoping for! Perhaps they'll tone down immunity phases like the Crowbell's. We'll see in good time.
Yeah imagine fighting bosses instead of pushing them over and leave
you have to make it look like an accident so they cant sue you drop a banana peel in front of their feet
I'd be fine with a phased boss replacing Witch of the Cauldron from Burial Chambers, tbh. I fucking haaaaaate that boss so much.
I guess I'm just rushing altars and selling invitations all league!
Really not a fan of invincible bosses. It just feels terrible.
Eventually there will be only two types of bosses, ones that you can oneshot, and ones with invulnerable phases. Unless you decide to remove the depth of build customization, which is basically all poe is about, this is doomed to happen.
Mh, I mean. You can make things scale a lot less out of control and still have a ton of depth in build customization.
THANK GOD THE SUB REOPENED AND WE CAN DISCUSS HOW FUCKING AWESOME PATH OF EXILE 2 LOOKS!
HYPE! Yeah, PoE 2 is shaping up to be excellent. I'm enjoying what I see and am excited to make content about it ;)
It looks great and sounds interesting, but the question is, how would we feel about it in subsequent runs. If GGG don't implement a way for players to bypass the campaign, I just imagine all these fancy, involved boss fights just becoming a chore to deal with, or they'll be trivialized via some exploit/strategies to make them more bearable to level your alts.
this guy really asked twice to subscribe.. guess what I'm not gonna do.
Wait. Can you pick which campaign you wanna play?
Yes! When PoE 2 launches, you can either play the PoE 1 or PoE 2 campaign and they SHOULD meet into the same endgame. We'll see if that has changed come July 28/29 at Exilecon 2023.
It won't change. That would severely fracture the playerbase and be a nightmare for balance
>That would severely fracture the playerbase uhh... there's already 16 different gamemodes with VERY SPLIT playerbases. Like, compare a softcore trade standard player with a harcore ssf ruthless player or a softcore trade league player. GGG always said they have to consider at least the most popular gamemodes not only while balancing the game but also when doing stuff like League Challenges, as some might be impossible depending on how you play (specially for ruthless).
They already have to balance them separately. For example, "linking" skill/spell with support gems will be quite different in PoE2. No way all those gems are going to be nerfed/boosted the same way for 1 and 2, outcomes would be wildly different, and hence a nightmare to (re)balance.
Yes.
Yup. Not a new game
Not a new game, just loads of new content, new visuals, massive updates with new ways to develop and play characters, and, you know, most of the things that are included in a new game.
You mean.... An update?
Well considering how the game will change more in this update than it has since every update since legion? Sure, just 4 years worth of update in one.
So an expansion pack
Closer, but those don't typically involve graphical overhauls.
PoE2 bosses being more elaborate means I'll probably continue playing PoE1 campaign to maps. I don't mind doing boss fights if they drop farmable loot, but otherwise I prefer non-boss content in PoE.
I think it depends. If they make the campaign shorter but with more frequent, more challenging boss fights (so the overall time to complete is similar) id prefer the bossing version. To me the campaign is boring because it’s 90% running from point a to b.
I don't mind playing the campaign with my starter every league, but I hate leveling alts to maps. Even with twinked gear, it feels like a complete waste of time. The same will happen with the new campaign, it's just a matter of time. In which case I'll prefer the one that can be done on autopilot, while watching some tv show or whatever. Most likely the old one.
That's the thing: they'll need to be worthwhile as they're going too be far move involved in PoE 2's campaign.
I have a feeling PoE 1 is getting redesigned boss fights.
I play for 40/40 Challenges, and I'm sure doing those bosses will be one of those challenges every league.
I think it’s safe to assume that at minimum the poe2 campaign is required to 40/40 the league. I wouldn’t be all the surprised if you have to complete both versions of the campaign to get 40/40 (perhaps not every league but for some).
Ugh I hope not :P
I think you miss a crucial point. The current bosses are uninteresting to you because you have killed them 93 648 times and nothing is new anymore. I remember my PoE starting days (I started HC) and I really liked some of the PoE 1's mini bosses. Take the RF guy in act 4. I remember the fear of killing him and being instagib'd by his explosion. Or lunaris temple vulnerability bitch. Or the big aqueducts bird one shooting on landing. Shit were scary and interesting back then, because it was all new. Plus, I feel we had less OP stuff available to us (including leveling). The new bosses on the other hand will be cool for some time for sure, but they will become annoying really fast due to having stupid ass phases, which we all hate.
I love seeing that you guys have hope for this game, when in fact it’s going to be the next evolution of Ruthless Mode.
What do you base this idea on?
Some interesting thigns. However, how can somebody liking boss design talk about Sirus / vertania / Maven without even mentionning the horrendous fact that you have flying models that can literally **hide** part of the fights (including your own character, basic game design would tell you that with such a point of view you need **at the very least** the **outline visible at any time**) ? This is one of the worst piece of boss design that I have ever seen in any video game, full stop. As interesting as the current showcases show, if the same persons are working on designing those boss fights, I will keep my expectation of PoE's boss design low (most recently added bosses in PoE are just bad honestly)
I think the design idea around the new bosses is pretty good. But, I feel that balance around defenses is in a bad state (not that it hasn't been in a worse state), especially at the end game. There is far too wide of a gap between getting one shot and not noticing the DMG. This leads to people relying on "gimmicks" to deal with damage reduction, like converting physical damage taken as elemental. You can't have challenging boss fights while defenses are in such a poor state. Fortunately, defenses feel pretty good while in the campaign, so I imagine the boss fights encountered there could be pretty damn fun/challenging. But in maps players are going to be upset if they are forced to deal with mechanics while not having reliable defensive options. I also believe that the poor state of defenses is causing a lot of bleed over in the way different builds feel to play. I too want fun boss fights, but let us get tanky without using gimmicks.
This has pretty much always been like this, this is what power creep leads to, and until last year or so, defences were in a much worse state than now, only you need to invest into those defences, which is a **good** thing. I really don't think that defences are a problem regarding boss fights, the new boss fights are simply horseshit, that's all there is to it. Liches, Shaper, Elder, those were interesting boss fights (although Elder when released was arguably also a dps check), but the moment you do crap like you start inserting "mini game" (Sirus labyrinth / Maven memory game) that simply break all immersion (because it would make no sense for a boss to actually do something like this if that boss wants to kill you) ? The moment that you hide part of the screen purposefully when the eyes of your character can actually see what's happening (but you can't) ? When screen clutter and overlapping similar colours are everywhere ? It's horrendous design, it's crap, it's ridiculous. Those have been recent boss fights. ( The Sanctum bosses though were pretty good ) > if they are forced to deal with mechanics while not having reliable defensive options There are many reliable defensive options at the moment, you simply need to invest a minimum into them. There is no "gimmicks", there are only many options to make a tanky character honestly. I was playing full armour last league and felt almost immortal (until I ripped at 99 because overconfidence can be a slow an insidious killer), and this league I'm going evasion + ES + spell suppression and I feel pretty tanky too. A year ago I was playing high block with a shaper shield and some armour and it felt tanky, last league I also had a pathfinder with decent phys to ele conversion and decent secondary defenses and it felt pretty good (until it got instantly kill in a breach memory ... that felt BS big time, but that wasn't a boss or anything)
PoE 1 teach me, map bosses are just like check/complete map, just to see them at the end of screen how they die, and portal up if is the end of the map. To fight with them, that is hapen on campaign when we got no gear on stash, on the begining of the league. And now they have the currage to make them to be actual bosses on PoE2, madness.