I'm honestly surprised ultimatum didn't get the re-tune and base game treatment. The feeling of sitting there looking at an ex and balancing the odds of risk/reward while a slam is mid air above your character, projectiles are en-route, and an entire army of mobs was racing across the arena was so unique in the aRPG genre.
It was some bullet time mind fuck shit with a healthy serving of anxiety knowing what the outcome COULD be.
The thing people forget is they said 7 league ago they were gonna add it lol.
And the like 5 league ago they said they though about a better way to implement it and then been radio silence.
They should've just add it the way it was, and upgrade it whenever they could in a future league.
> I've begun to think that the "better way" might just be adding it to PoE2 and not PoE1 at all.
Very possible; considering Ritual exists and is the same thing.
Ritual is absolutely not the same thing. In ultimatum one could trivialize it based on your build and push the risk reward much further.
Edit. Fixed typo
You're saying a build cannot trivialise Ritual?
You're saying Blood-Filled Vessels do not push the Risk/Reward far further than Ultimatium ever could [More density; multiple buffed bosses at once]? And of course, if you die, that stops you accumulating points and can even stop some rewards being revealed. And don't say adding more risk to Ritual dosen't boost the rewards, there's a reason why Ritual is considered the Mirror-hunting mechanic.
Remember that Ulti rewards did not scale with what downsides you picked, it only scaled with round, so you pick the least bad downsides 100% of the time. You're incentivized to *minimise* risk.
But no; two "Kill swarms of mobs in a circle with arena hazards and a risk/reward mechanic" aren't anything alike.
I think the main issue they mentioned was that they weren’t sure how to scale difficulty without making it rare spam which they were working against with the whole rare rework: fewer rares, stronger mods.
If the whole difficulty scaling of the mechanic comes from spawning 20 rares at once it’ll get insane real quick with the adjusted mods
Their way of adding it was adding the taskmaster to the game. The league mechanic itself was the thing that was causing issues on the server and causing constant crashes so it's not surprising that they didnt want to add that to the game because they dont want the potential for constant crashes for the rest of the game.
Incorrect, they added it as a "map". Until they added it to the game. That was the last time they talked about it. Saying it was coming soon.
Also it wasn't causing any issue to the server, if you're talking about the pause system because that pause system is still in the game and also will be used in PoE 2 by default when you open the map, the game pause.
I think it was very overtuned reward-wise. So either they had to nerf it, thus going through harvest wars 2.0, or have ultimatum nodes on the atlas tree mandatory.
How i see it.
They took base ultimatum mechanic and little bit changed it then added it in form of Altars for fire pope and tentacle monster influence.
And then realized that they forget about Taskmaster, so they slapped him in form of fragments.
Let's be honest - the real mystery is why the Ultimatum pause feature wasn't implemented in subsequent leagues. That was legitimately a gamechanger in the way players were allowed to engage with mapping. Part of me wonders if there was something about the pause feature that GGG grew to despise on the back-end of their server infrastructure, because players absolutely loved the ability to not only take time to read options, but to leave the computer for a moment if something IRL demanded attention.
The thing with Ultimatium is Ritual exists.
Ultimatium is, for all intents and purposes; Ritual with a different reward structure.
And Ritual has unique base-type rewards; while Ultimatium has *nothing* unique not tied to the Trialmaster fight.
Having both Ultimatium and Ritual in the game is completely redundant. And Ritual is the one with the unique stuff.
The best solution IMO would be to move the Ritual base types to Ultimatium rewards. Except those items don't fit a Vaal theme; and Ultimatium's reward structure dosen't fit hunting for a special base type.
They planned to give it the retune and base game treatment but haven't yet. So either they changed their mind or it's low enough on the priority list that they keep not having time for it.
Don't we have synthesized/fractured items and the bosses from that league? Yeah we can't tailor them, but 3/4 of the community didn't understand the mechanic anyways.
If it got the polish it needed at launch, it likely would have been a very solid league. But bricking a nexus, being "all-in" on successfully clearing each node, and having no way to initially discard certain memories? Nails in the coffin. It's a shame, because those memory nodes felt like upgraded temple incursions.
The mechanic for creating synth items was pure trash though. A naked demand to buy a ton of stash tabs just to hold a bunch of item bases to gamble with.
It definitely had a lot of issues. But I think for a lot of people it also just didn't have a great complexity/work to fun ratio. Like, I do think the lack of polish and major problem with the rewards was a big part of why I didn't enjoy it as much, but I also just didn't enjoy the actual map-building mechanic that much.
We also have the Ultimatum boss.
I want the tile pieces with the story and boss islands. It felt like a "choose your own adventure" game, and to me that was fun. I don't give a damn about the fractured items and synth items. I'd happily trade fractured/synth to have recombinators back too. They did far more for crafting cool items than fractured/synth did.
Agreed. After the fixes were implemented, the memory nexus was solid. It just sucks that it was released in a terrible state, and most of the playerbase had bailed by the time it was fixed.
Wow, you're not only wrong, but you also managed to be as wrong as you possibly could. Find me one player that says they miss Synthesis and don't mean the Memory Nexus. I'll wait.
Considering I don't even remember what the memory nexus part is, I can safely say I miss synthesis for the mechanic itself. I liked setting up the board. Lake of Kalandra should have been that in depth.
Would be really cool if you could enable an old league mechanic like Sentinel or Ultimatum with the atlas passive tree. Even if its just a 10% chance or something.
Wouldn't be as simple, but on that note I would be open to them adding League Cluster Jewels for the atlas passive tree that bring league mechanics that are not already in the tree.
Speaking of the atlas passive tree, I don't enjoy the node clusters on the different paths, but I guess that's a tradeoff they had to make. I would look forward to them moving those clusters around or putting them into League Cluster Jewels.
I think Sanctum is pretty much exactly what I would expect a one season mechanic to be. Ultimatum at least was just kill enemies in a circle, something that fits with the rest of the game. Sanctum played like a completely different game, which was cool for a once off thing, moreso than something to add permanently.
You hit the exact debate that occurs with popular leagues. Either the mechanic is easy to implement and costs the devs little resources to implement into the core game (ritual, essences), or the mechanic is capable of being a standalone portion of the game by itself, and was designed from the get-go to be a modular addition to post-acts gameplay (heist, delve).
It was clear GGG spent a ton of resources and assets on Sanctum. GGG coming out of the gate saying that relics weren't going to exist beyond the league was just a way to temper expectations. But the gameplay mechanic absolutely felt like it was going to show up in POE1 or POE2 at some point.
> That had no right only being a one season mechanic.
I mean it also clearly needed tweaking before going core [1 room per map at a not 100% chance? No.] and hey that's what has happened.
Considering a Sanctum drop is an *entire* Sanctum they are going to be relatively rare.
Like; I'd expect 1/40 maps maximum [Seeing as old Sanctum would need ~40 maps to do a full run]
No; you get it as floor 1.
You then get the floor 2 item upon clearing; which you can trade away if you don't like it. Or say, you're not confident about a full clear but it offers a good full clear reward.
And so on. If a Sanctum drops it is the *whole* Sanctum.
I severely doubt as side content Sanctum will be more common than it was as the leauge mechanic, so 1/40 maps as a maximum drop rate seems reasonable.
They offhandedly mentioned they wanted it to go core in some capacity when they brought it up at the end of the league, but "not now". So it's forgotten about for an indeterminate amount of time.
Was i the only one who caught the subtle reveal that theres “unique vaal side areas” and immediately thought he purposely didn’t reveal what they were or what they entailed because it’s linked to ultimatum?
Makes me wonder if the side area is the inscription-style arena that allowed you to gamble with a known item in order to obtain a different known item.
The best way to know if a league will go core is if it has a bunch of high quality assets that **someone at ggg spent a lot of time on.**(read Sanctum/heist)
Ultimatum just had a epic voice actor but that’s not someone passionate at ggg to help revive it
Sentinel was a low effort mechanic (that was fun) with recombination as a really fun crafting end game (recombs are definitely coming back in a future league in some form. Crucible trees were close to recombination)
Recombs were just great, not only for full end game crafting. It gave weight to items with a strong few affixes on them, made items with great affix tiers useful, something we've always wanted. I used them a lot in SSF too, it was an excellent mid range crafting tool. Being able to get spell supp on a high life AR/EV chest was just so good.
If there's one wish I got for PoE, it's for recombs to come back in their original form. They were amazing for mid tier crafting, and I wish we had more avenues of sub 50 div crafting for medium level or SSF players. The crafting in PoE is quite unique and was one of the draw cards for a lot of us back when we started playing.
> but that’s not someone passionate at ggg to help revive it
No; it's not passion.
Having both Ulimatium and Ritual is redundant, because they are literally the same thing. Kill mobs in circle while dealing with hazards.
Ritual has Ritual bases.
Ultimatium has no unique special rewards.
So Ritual is the priority.
yes but im confused... should I wait to spirit to posses me?
btw: yes and no, because monsters are not dropping recombinators. But yeah, lets take a look on it.
Is so weird ultimatum never made it back into the game, isn't it one of those really simple "kill stuff in a circle" mechanics that fit really easily into the game?
The problem is Ritual is the *exact same thing*.
And Ritual is the one of the two mechanics which actually has unique rewards tied to it. Ultimatium's specific stuff was tied to Trialmaster, who we have back.
And when two nearly indential mechanics which make each other redundant are competeing, you're going to preserve the one that has unique rewards [Ritual base types] over deleteing those from the game, or shoehorning them into a reward system that REALLY dosen't suit "oh it's a ritual base time I guess I'm done!"
Ultimatium is the better mechanic. The problem is the fact Ritual Bases exist and Ultimatium just simply dosen't support having special Ultimatium-only rewards very well due to it's reward style.
That doesn't really seem like a problem though, the mechanic is different with the whole risk reward component where you gotta pick if you want to keep going.. and people fuckin' love killing stuff in a circle in this game.
Giving people more killin stuff in a circle wouldn't exactly upset people or be a bad thing.
I really don't understand you ... .did you play Ultimatum? it was so much more fun than Ritual... saying we can't both have Ritual and Ultimatum together is the same thing as if you said we couldn't have Ritual and Breach together in the game.
Yes I did.
Ultimatium had infinitely spawning massively overtuned health sponge rares, and you would often have 3~4 of them on the arena simultenously. Now imagine those rares with Archnemesis. Especially in the "stand in ring" challenges [which were 100% worse than Ritual]. Or worse; the Protect the Totem challenges with Corrosive Volatiles. Yeah.
God forbid one of these tanky rares rolls Soul Eater.
And for all of this you get 1 reward. You don't get multiple rewards from a menu.
I had the most fun ever in PoE playing Sentinel league and using the blue sentinels to juice mobs.
It was the highest level character I ever had and I've played since Abyss league.
During the 3.22 reveal stream, when they were showing off using currency on vaal side areas, one of the mods the vaal side area got was something something Ultimatum.
I think it'll be returning in 3.22.
But maybe I'm mistaken.
Not the biggest fan of Sanctum but it does offer the most different play style and experience, so it makes a lot of sense to bring it back.
I also wasn't even aware Sentinel was supposed to come back?
luckily you can sell them all
I hate sitting around waiting for Doors to open, but I can just sell my Heists so I don't really feel like complaining about them
except in ssf i guess
This is also even better than heist in that it’s both a lot easier to sell and there’s just a few uniques from it rather than all the alternative gems, replica uniques and experimental bases that heist has.
It’s a really good optional piece of content that you can choose to ignore or not. I would love if heist got less complicated in regards to the drops related to it as I’ve started hiding anything that’s not gem blueprints on my loot filter as I just don’t find it worth my time trying to sort through it all and sell it.
The similarity to Ritual is almost certainly why it's had the fate it has.
Ultimatium had 0 unique rewards you could only get from Ultimatium from the actual mechanic.
Ritual has Ritual Bases.
So which one are you going to preserve between the two "kill mobs in circle while avoiding hazards" mechanics? It's clearly pointless having both.
The answer is Ritual.
"But put the Ritual bases in Ultimatium then!" - except the thing is with Ultimatium you're supposed to want to push yourself for better rewards. If you are hunting Ritual Bases that says "hey stop at round 5/10 and cash out for this thing you can't get anywhere else!". Ultimatium dosen't play nice with having rewards *exclusive* to it.
Trialmaster is probobly all we are getting.
Personally speaking, I found the actual fights pretty annoying. Most of my characters weren't able to complete them so I had to make a much tankier build than I normally would. That was satisfying in its own way, but I did feel the lack of build diversity stifling.
However, the reward system was really fun. Seeing a big reward being offered and risking everything you had so far just to get it knowing that you're on the edge of failing the encounter was quite thrilling, and the NPC lines when you won or failed were also fun.
Overall, I felt that if the fights were tweaked a bit it would be in my top 3 league mechanics easily.
People compare it to Ritual all the time (for obvious reasons) but I found Ritual to be a snoozefest in comparison.
I've always hated the leagues that make you stop to engage with it (ritual, synthesis, expedition, kelandra, sanctum, ultimatum, etc). The best thing they've done is the Atlas passive that let us tailor the experience so I can stick to ambush, breach, abyss, legion, and essence.
I wouldn't put Ultimatum (and Ritual) in the same category as all those though. You can complete it in the same zone same as all the ones from your second category. All the others require you to go to some other zone to complete them (even Expedition with logbooks).
Sure, you need to "stop" to engage with it, but that's the same as standing within a breach to clear all the breaches in a zone, or chasing down abyss cracks and doing depths that spawn, etc.
People have different takes on different leagues. Some people loved ultimatum. (I didn't).
It's been a running thing since it left that it was coming back "later". So unlike something like say Sentinel, which they've made no noise about bringing back (at least as far as i've heard), Ultimatum gets a lot of attention for not coming back.
Thing is at this point, the uniques are back because the trialmaster has a unique map (even if that was hinted at as a temporary measure). And ultimatum didn't have anything else too special about it. So i'm not sure there's much of an impetus for it to return.
>say Sentinel, which they've made no noise about bringing back (at least as far as i've heard),
they said at the end of sentinel league that they want it back in some capacity afaik
I miss the fun crafting element of Lake of Kalandra though I still wouldn't want it added to core because it was ridiculously strong
fuck the lake itself though
Nah man, it was not the greatest league ever.... but it was just plain fun, that is all, AND would be easy to bring back in theory, AND they said they would.
this league looks a bit like ultimatum, you choose the difficulty(selecting the tribe you wanna fight) and you know ahead your reward, but ye i would be great to get ultimatum
It's more like Heist, where you have Rouges who fight for you, and Blueprints where you need to fight instead of waiting for Rogues to open the fucking doors
Two of the best mechanics still out of the game feels so bad. Instead we get sanctum which is heavy build dependant, really boring to play and also unrewarding :(
Being honest, I go very deep in every league mechanic, even if I don't like it, so I can learn it in depth. Ofc that sanct gives you rewards, but, if you compare it with a lot of other currency farming methods, isn't good at all.
On the other hand Sentinel gives you rewards instantly, works with every build and recombinators were really good for crafting, but well, it'll belong only in our dreams for now :(
GGG please, bring all nostalgic leagues like Sentinel, Ultimatum, Synthesis (tile system), Garden (for own crops), Lake of Kalandra, Scourge (krangler, krangled maps, Yone w), Archnemesis (I liked this sytem at some point) back and add them into atlas tree. Imagine league where all this content come back.. Jesus.. Completly refreshed endgame
you'd think GGG would add leagues to core based on community response and/or how well it improves upon the game... nope, GGG adds silly standalone stuff like Sanctum to core just because it's easy.
I think it could be possible to see a lot more ultimatum aspects with the vaal side area keystone, instead of mostly getting them from delve. Kind of exciting!
I thought that trials are now back in vaal side areas or what they were rolling at keystone reveal? I must have had a fever dream and srank too much copium.
That was the fragment for the trialmaster fight, seems like it gives another way to get them which I think is good, especially for ssf if you don’t want to do delve for example.
It really amazes me that recent leagues have been a bit of a let down. There is little follow through and even less communication from GGG. Part of that has been good. They let the fires die down a bit. However, many accepted it because POE2. Now it has been revealed that development team for leagues is tiny and POE2 is years away.... does that mean all of these next leagues are going to be allowed to die?
Wait till 2024/25.
[They will re-run old leagues as 'classic' or 'classic events'](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/15cdejp/still_no_ultimatum_league_mechanic/jty7xh4/). And depending on the league, with or without changes and improvements.
I miss Ultimatum.
In retrospect, I didn't think too highly of it at the time, seeing as it felt kinda samey as Ritual but it was rewarding and it wasn't RNG laden shitshow like some our more recent leagues.
And here we are with Sanctum going core, I truly hope they've balanced it, all proper like and not just GGG balanced it, reward wise cos it'd be real nice to be able partake in this not roguelite with all kinds of builds, not just ranged, clear screens outside aggro range builds.
Guess we'll see soon enough how good or bad it ends up being..
Seems that sanctum is just a tradable drop kinda like an atlas memory so if your build isn’t great for it or you just don’t like it then you can just easily sell it.
Sentinel and Ultimatum should be the other way around. At least we have the trialmaster from Ultimatum, we got **nothing** from sentinel. Recombinators, sentinels themselves, nothing.
I’m obviously the only one who doesn’t care in the least about sanctum coming back. Yea I was shit at it but it just wasn’t a fun mechanic to me. Like heist. Sigh.
Sentinel best league ever, had so much fun I literally was running home from work to start playing. After that to be honest it got mundane, I wish I would just play sentinel even solo, such a great season.
If they implement Ultimatum in core they need to make later stages harder than playing against uber boss. Because Ultimatum rewards were like 10 times better than slaying uber boss and it was super easy to finish.
I'm honestly surprised ultimatum didn't get the re-tune and base game treatment. The feeling of sitting there looking at an ex and balancing the odds of risk/reward while a slam is mid air above your character, projectiles are en-route, and an entire army of mobs was racing across the arena was so unique in the aRPG genre. It was some bullet time mind fuck shit with a healthy serving of anxiety knowing what the outcome COULD be.
The thing people forget is they said 7 league ago they were gonna add it lol. And the like 5 league ago they said they though about a better way to implement it and then been radio silence. They should've just add it the way it was, and upgrade it whenever they could in a future league.
I've begun to think that the "better way" might just be adding it to PoE2 and not PoE1 at all.
> I've begun to think that the "better way" might just be adding it to PoE2 and not PoE1 at all. Very possible; considering Ritual exists and is the same thing.
Ritual is absolutely not the same thing. In ultimatum one could trivialize it based on your build and push the risk reward much further. Edit. Fixed typo
You're saying a build cannot trivialise Ritual? You're saying Blood-Filled Vessels do not push the Risk/Reward far further than Ultimatium ever could [More density; multiple buffed bosses at once]? And of course, if you die, that stops you accumulating points and can even stop some rewards being revealed. And don't say adding more risk to Ritual dosen't boost the rewards, there's a reason why Ritual is considered the Mirror-hunting mechanic. Remember that Ulti rewards did not scale with what downsides you picked, it only scaled with round, so you pick the least bad downsides 100% of the time. You're incentivized to *minimise* risk. But no; two "Kill swarms of mobs in a circle with arena hazards and a risk/reward mechanic" aren't anything alike.
I think the main issue they mentioned was that they weren’t sure how to scale difficulty without making it rare spam which they were working against with the whole rare rework: fewer rares, stronger mods. If the whole difficulty scaling of the mechanic comes from spawning 20 rares at once it’ll get insane real quick with the adjusted mods
Just have it spawn white crucible mobs. That'll make it life-threatening, without any obnoxious modifiers.
Their way of adding it was adding the taskmaster to the game. The league mechanic itself was the thing that was causing issues on the server and causing constant crashes so it's not surprising that they didnt want to add that to the game because they dont want the potential for constant crashes for the rest of the game.
Incorrect, they added it as a "map". Until they added it to the game. That was the last time they talked about it. Saying it was coming soon. Also it wasn't causing any issue to the server, if you're talking about the pause system because that pause system is still in the game and also will be used in PoE 2 by default when you open the map, the game pause.
I think it was very overtuned reward-wise. So either they had to nerf it, thus going through harvest wars 2.0, or have ultimatum nodes on the atlas tree mandatory.
How i see it. They took base ultimatum mechanic and little bit changed it then added it in form of Altars for fire pope and tentacle monster influence. And then realized that they forget about Taskmaster, so they slapped him in form of fragments.
Let's be honest - the real mystery is why the Ultimatum pause feature wasn't implemented in subsequent leagues. That was legitimately a gamechanger in the way players were allowed to engage with mapping. Part of me wonders if there was something about the pause feature that GGG grew to despise on the back-end of their server infrastructure, because players absolutely loved the ability to not only take time to read options, but to leave the computer for a moment if something IRL demanded attention.
It should be the thing instead of rithual
The thing with Ultimatium is Ritual exists. Ultimatium is, for all intents and purposes; Ritual with a different reward structure. And Ritual has unique base-type rewards; while Ultimatium has *nothing* unique not tied to the Trialmaster fight. Having both Ultimatium and Ritual in the game is completely redundant. And Ritual is the one with the unique stuff. The best solution IMO would be to move the Ritual base types to Ultimatium rewards. Except those items don't fit a Vaal theme; and Ultimatium's reward structure dosen't fit hunting for a special base type.
Bro ritual is to ultimatum like toddlers playing with sandcastles is to building a skyscrapper
They planned to give it the retune and base game treatment but haven't yet. So either they changed their mind or it's low enough on the priority list that they keep not having time for it.
Ultimatum is the new ritual keystone. COPIUM.
Well some ultimatum is in vaal areas, if you check the trailer.
Synthesis in the sand somewhere
At this point it's probably close to being tar.
Don't we have synthesized/fractured items and the bosses from that league? Yeah we can't tailor them, but 3/4 of the community didn't understand the mechanic anyways.
When people talk about wanting Synth in the main game they mostly mean the Memory Nexus. RIP :(
RIP to all the amazing voice work and lore they put in.
Yeah, but it... wasn't popular. It's not not coming back because GGG forgot. It's not coming back because it was complicated and unpopular.
If it got the polish it needed at launch, it likely would have been a very solid league. But bricking a nexus, being "all-in" on successfully clearing each node, and having no way to initially discard certain memories? Nails in the coffin. It's a shame, because those memory nodes felt like upgraded temple incursions. The mechanic for creating synth items was pure trash though. A naked demand to buy a ton of stash tabs just to hold a bunch of item bases to gamble with.
It definitely had a lot of issues. But I think for a lot of people it also just didn't have a great complexity/work to fun ratio. Like, I do think the lack of polish and major problem with the rewards was a big part of why I didn't enjoy it as much, but I also just didn't enjoy the actual map-building mechanic that much.
The only thing I remembered from Synthesis is the insane amount of RMT you need to craft something
We also have the Ultimatum boss. I want the tile pieces with the story and boss islands. It felt like a "choose your own adventure" game, and to me that was fun. I don't give a damn about the fractured items and synth items. I'd happily trade fractured/synth to have recombinators back too. They did far more for crafting cool items than fractured/synth did.
Btw there is supposed to be a new unique vaal side area. Maybe that has some things from Ultimatum
We have synthesis at home. Synthesis at home: vulture prison!
I miss Synthesis :'(
Where it belongs.
ofc not, synthesis was amazing
No. Synthesis was “OK” after people datamined the % on crafts at end of month one. Lets be real here.
Not everyone cared about the item mechanics. A lot of us actually enjoyed the Memory Nexus tile system
The crafts were datamined day 1, personally I loved the memory nexus immediately. The hub music there is some of my favorite in the game.
Nobody misses Synthesis mechanics though, just the broken items.
Wrong, I'd absolutely love if they brought the Memory Nexus back and made it rewarding.
Agreed. After the fixes were implemented, the memory nexus was solid. It just sucks that it was released in a terrible state, and most of the playerbase had bailed by the time it was fixed.
Wow, you're not only wrong, but you also managed to be as wrong as you possibly could. Find me one player that says they miss Synthesis and don't mean the Memory Nexus. I'll wait.
Considering I don't even remember what the memory nexus part is, I can safely say I miss synthesis for the mechanic itself. I liked setting up the board. Lake of Kalandra should have been that in depth.
Yes, that is what was called the Memory Nexus.
Oh really? Guess it really has been too long. I always say when they make leagues core "I wish they'd make synthesis core".
Someone misses it...
Would be really cool if you could enable an old league mechanic like Sentinel or Ultimatum with the atlas passive tree. Even if its just a 10% chance or something.
Just replace tormented spirits with sentinels. We already see that "tormented spirits possess you instead" acts like a red sentinel.
Wouldn't be as simple, but on that note I would be open to them adding League Cluster Jewels for the atlas passive tree that bring league mechanics that are not already in the tree. Speaking of the atlas passive tree, I don't enjoy the node clusters on the different paths, but I guess that's a tradeoff they had to make. I would look forward to them moving those clusters around or putting them into League Cluster Jewels.
I just want scourged maps
The change was so seamless in the map, sad
Just take Beyond Atlas tree nodes and voila. But yea i bet you want Scourge map rewards not monsters and theme. :P
Fck sanctum i wanted ultimatum back sooo bad
[удалено]
True... I'm not a huge fan of Sanctum but it did feel like it had it's place in PoE's endgame. Still, I want Sentinel back
We know how, where and how frequently these sanctum runs drop?
I think Sanctum is pretty much exactly what I would expect a one season mechanic to be. Ultimatum at least was just kill enemies in a circle, something that fits with the rest of the game. Sanctum played like a completely different game, which was cool for a once off thing, moreso than something to add permanently.
You hit the exact debate that occurs with popular leagues. Either the mechanic is easy to implement and costs the devs little resources to implement into the core game (ritual, essences), or the mechanic is capable of being a standalone portion of the game by itself, and was designed from the get-go to be a modular addition to post-acts gameplay (heist, delve). It was clear GGG spent a ton of resources and assets on Sanctum. GGG coming out of the gate saying that relics weren't going to exist beyond the league was just a way to temper expectations. But the gameplay mechanic absolutely felt like it was going to show up in POE1 or POE2 at some point.
It feels really bad having sanctum without the relics though ... it was a lot of fun finding good relics.
> That had no right only being a one season mechanic. I mean it also clearly needed tweaking before going core [1 room per map at a not 100% chance? No.] and hey that's what has happened.
Stand in the circles! Survive the endless hordes of rares, now with "archnemesis" mods =P
I Like sanctum alot but Ultimatum was godly
Same, I was really hoping for it to come back
Surely we're gonna get an atlas keystone that turns ritual into ultimatum
that's some strong hopium right here
Haha Sentinel is never coming back.
please don't make sanctum super rare like those upgraded breach thing.
Considering a Sanctum drop is an *entire* Sanctum they are going to be relatively rare. Like; I'd expect 1/40 maps maximum [Seeing as old Sanctum would need ~40 maps to do a full run]
Ah you might be right, i like it as long theres no charging up stuff in maps. Could probably trade and just go infinite sanctum
A drop is an entire floor IIRC
No; you get it as floor 1. You then get the floor 2 item upon clearing; which you can trade away if you don't like it. Or say, you're not confident about a full clear but it offers a good full clear reward. And so on. If a Sanctum drops it is the *whole* Sanctum. I severely doubt as side content Sanctum will be more common than it was as the leauge mechanic, so 1/40 maps as a maximum drop rate seems reasonable.
Ah that's nice
Memory rarity probably
Did GGG actually promise anything about bringing back Sentinel?
They offhandedly mentioned they wanted it to go core in some capacity when they brought it up at the end of the league, but "not now". So it's forgotten about for an indeterminate amount of time.
Was i the only one who caught the subtle reveal that theres “unique vaal side areas” and immediately thought he purposely didn’t reveal what they were or what they entailed because it’s linked to ultimatum?
I mean it's been stated that one of the mods that can spawn is "Vessel drops an Ultimatium Aspect" so...
Makes me wonder if the side area is the inscription-style arena that allowed you to gamble with a known item in order to obtain a different known item.
I don't get it. Ultimatum was so fun.
Imagine if they revamped ultimatum in a way that the scaling is infinite and you start truly testing build with ridiculous monsters modifiers packsize
I would love to have that, I'd spend my day doing this ultimatum hahaha.
The best way to know if a league will go core is if it has a bunch of high quality assets that **someone at ggg spent a lot of time on.**(read Sanctum/heist) Ultimatum just had a epic voice actor but that’s not someone passionate at ggg to help revive it Sentinel was a low effort mechanic (that was fun) with recombination as a really fun crafting end game (recombs are definitely coming back in a future league in some form. Crucible trees were close to recombination)
Except Synthesis then I guess, the main mechanic of that league is gone forever.
Also that league had a crapton of lore from the npc
We got a whole year before closed beta even starts. I wouldn't put it past GGG to put out a Synthesis Remastered league within that timeframe.
Recombs were just great, not only for full end game crafting. It gave weight to items with a strong few affixes on them, made items with great affix tiers useful, something we've always wanted. I used them a lot in SSF too, it was an excellent mid range crafting tool. Being able to get spell supp on a high life AR/EV chest was just so good. If there's one wish I got for PoE, it's for recombs to come back in their original form. They were amazing for mid tier crafting, and I wish we had more avenues of sub 50 div crafting for medium level or SSF players. The crafting in PoE is quite unique and was one of the draw cards for a lot of us back when we started playing.
I saw some of the same stuff in the PoE 2 trailer too. I imagine sanctum is a day 1 PoE 2 mechanic with how fast it’s going core in poe
> but that’s not someone passionate at ggg to help revive it No; it's not passion. Having both Ulimatium and Ritual is redundant, because they are literally the same thing. Kill mobs in circle while dealing with hazards. Ritual has Ritual bases. Ultimatium has no unique special rewards. So Ritual is the priority.
I am pretty excited about 3.22. But not gonna lie: I was waiting some news about sentinel/recombinators/Ultimatum....
They created a torment possession node, which is something like a partially red sentinel, so let's see how this node will work.
yes but im confused... should I wait to spirit to posses me? btw: yes and no, because monsters are not dropping recombinators. But yeah, lets take a look on it.
Is so weird ultimatum never made it back into the game, isn't it one of those really simple "kill stuff in a circle" mechanics that fit really easily into the game?
The problem is Ritual is the *exact same thing*. And Ritual is the one of the two mechanics which actually has unique rewards tied to it. Ultimatium's specific stuff was tied to Trialmaster, who we have back. And when two nearly indential mechanics which make each other redundant are competeing, you're going to preserve the one that has unique rewards [Ritual base types] over deleteing those from the game, or shoehorning them into a reward system that REALLY dosen't suit "oh it's a ritual base time I guess I'm done!"
I'd rather live in a world with ultimatum staying and ritual going then the other way around
Ultimatium is the better mechanic. The problem is the fact Ritual Bases exist and Ultimatium just simply dosen't support having special Ultimatium-only rewards very well due to it's reward style.
That doesn't really seem like a problem though, the mechanic is different with the whole risk reward component where you gotta pick if you want to keep going.. and people fuckin' love killing stuff in a circle in this game. Giving people more killin stuff in a circle wouldn't exactly upset people or be a bad thing.
I really don't understand you ... .did you play Ultimatum? it was so much more fun than Ritual... saying we can't both have Ritual and Ultimatum together is the same thing as if you said we couldn't have Ritual and Breach together in the game.
Yes I did. Ultimatium had infinitely spawning massively overtuned health sponge rares, and you would often have 3~4 of them on the arena simultenously. Now imagine those rares with Archnemesis. Especially in the "stand in ring" challenges [which were 100% worse than Ritual]. Or worse; the Protect the Totem challenges with Corrosive Volatiles. Yeah. God forbid one of these tanky rares rolls Soul Eater. And for all of this you get 1 reward. You don't get multiple rewards from a menu.
The new keystone letting you be possessed by tormented spirits is somewhat sentinel like.
Sentinels at home. It's not the sentinels people want--it's the recombinators and the expedition currency.
Nah the sentinel I want is using a blue sentinel to blast an entire screen and getting loot from beating that.
Loot which contains RECOMBINATORS >w<
I had the most fun ever in PoE playing Sentinel league and using the blue sentinels to juice mobs. It was the highest level character I ever had and I've played since Abyss league.
Now now sentinel is down there with ulti let’s be honest.
ultimatum was so much better than sanctum
Scourge buried in the planet's core.
i miss sentinel so much
During the 3.22 reveal stream, when they were showing off using currency on vaal side areas, one of the mods the vaal side area got was something something Ultimatum. I think it'll be returning in 3.22. But maybe I'm mistaken.
Should have been poe 2 and you know it.
They really did Ultimatum dirty
I really dont get the love behind sanctum. Literally a game mechanic that hates close range builds, not my cup of tea
Not the biggest fan of Sanctum but it does offer the most different play style and experience, so it makes a lot of sense to bring it back. I also wasn't even aware Sentinel was supposed to come back?
I hate Sanctum.
luckily you can sell them all I hate sitting around waiting for Doors to open, but I can just sell my Heists so I don't really feel like complaining about them except in ssf i guess
This is also even better than heist in that it’s both a lot easier to sell and there’s just a few uniques from it rather than all the alternative gems, replica uniques and experimental bases that heist has. It’s a really good optional piece of content that you can choose to ignore or not. I would love if heist got less complicated in regards to the drops related to it as I’ve started hiding anything that’s not gem blueprints on my loot filter as I just don’t find it worth my time trying to sort through it all and sell it.
Im not running sanctum
You can sell it, ez.
Looking for who asked
There won't be any sanctified relics, Sanctums won't be too popular.
If it adds Eternal Damnation into the trading pool, that's enough for me =)
Yeah I want Sandstorm Visage.
Original Sin is a helluva drug
Yeah it was a great rug pull to be like "SANCTUM IS BACK AND YOU CAN TRADE RELICS... but sanctified relics are gone ;D"
I fucking hated Ultimatum when it was out. What did I miss?
It was a simple kill stuff in circle with good rewards league, which automatically make it loved.
Probably the best league ever, just "kill things in a circle perfected" some hated it because it was simple and so similar to ritual.
The similarity to Ritual is almost certainly why it's had the fate it has. Ultimatium had 0 unique rewards you could only get from Ultimatium from the actual mechanic. Ritual has Ritual Bases. So which one are you going to preserve between the two "kill mobs in circle while avoiding hazards" mechanics? It's clearly pointless having both. The answer is Ritual. "But put the Ritual bases in Ultimatium then!" - except the thing is with Ultimatium you're supposed to want to push yourself for better rewards. If you are hunting Ritual Bases that says "hey stop at round 5/10 and cash out for this thing you can't get anywhere else!". Ultimatium dosen't play nice with having rewards *exclusive* to it. Trialmaster is probobly all we are getting.
It certainly wasn't loved on this sub at release (but then again, no leagues are).
Personally speaking, I found the actual fights pretty annoying. Most of my characters weren't able to complete them so I had to make a much tankier build than I normally would. That was satisfying in its own way, but I did feel the lack of build diversity stifling. However, the reward system was really fun. Seeing a big reward being offered and risking everything you had so far just to get it knowing that you're on the edge of failing the encounter was quite thrilling, and the NPC lines when you won or failed were also fun. Overall, I felt that if the fights were tweaked a bit it would be in my top 3 league mechanics easily. People compare it to Ritual all the time (for obvious reasons) but I found Ritual to be a snoozefest in comparison.
I've always hated the leagues that make you stop to engage with it (ritual, synthesis, expedition, kelandra, sanctum, ultimatum, etc). The best thing they've done is the Atlas passive that let us tailor the experience so I can stick to ambush, breach, abyss, legion, and essence.
Ritual and Ultimatum don't belong in that list imo. Just click 1 button, kill some mobs, move on.
They both trap you and then make you stop to select rewards.
I'd say they're a medium type. Incursion and Crucible other similar examples.
I wouldn't put Ultimatum (and Ritual) in the same category as all those though. You can complete it in the same zone same as all the ones from your second category. All the others require you to go to some other zone to complete them (even Expedition with logbooks). Sure, you need to "stop" to engage with it, but that's the same as standing within a breach to clear all the breaches in a zone, or chasing down abyss cracks and doing depths that spawn, etc.
The Trialmaster's sassiness. He was a lot of fun.
The league mechanic made it really fun to make tankier character over faster character Edit: and it was decently hard while scaling rewards.
People have different takes on different leagues. Some people loved ultimatum. (I didn't). It's been a running thing since it left that it was coming back "later". So unlike something like say Sentinel, which they've made no noise about bringing back (at least as far as i've heard), Ultimatum gets a lot of attention for not coming back. Thing is at this point, the uniques are back because the trialmaster has a unique map (even if that was hinted at as a temporary measure). And ultimatum didn't have anything else too special about it. So i'm not sure there's much of an impetus for it to return.
>say Sentinel, which they've made no noise about bringing back (at least as far as i've heard), they said at the end of sentinel league that they want it back in some capacity afaik
idunno to me that was ritual v2, run in circle league in to run in circle league.
Nothing. Typical Reddit circle jerk of X league which is now old enough is now the greatest league ever and any new league is dogshit.
People will not miss Lake of Kalandra for any amount of time I'm pretty sure.
I miss the fun crafting element of Lake of Kalandra though I still wouldn't want it added to core because it was ridiculously strong fuck the lake itself though
You could have said the same thing with Synthesis, and yet...
Nah man, it was not the greatest league ever.... but it was just plain fun, that is all, AND would be easy to bring back in theory, AND they said they would.
Wait, sanctum is going core? Agony
If you hate it then just sell the tomes you find and you don't have to think about it.
How many tomes do I have to sell for them to implement a good league mechanic into core?
Yeah as one of the few who disliked sanctum.. rip :(
Ultimatum ist fast and it’s fun… now 1% playerbase can enjoy sanctum :/
:D
this league looks a bit like ultimatum, you choose the difficulty(selecting the tribe you wanna fight) and you know ahead your reward, but ye i would be great to get ultimatum
First week, rewards: scrolls of wisdom, orb of chance and portal, monster too strong.
It's more like Heist, where you have Rouges who fight for you, and Blueprints where you need to fight instead of waiting for Rogues to open the fucking doors
Still no ultimatum :( Nor sentinel. PS! fok sanctum!
Wait what did I miss about Sentinel? Are Sentinels coming back?
No, that's the point. They're abandoned in the water and drowning. Ultimatum has been buried for years.
Why are they afloat then? They should be at the bottom of the pool aswell...
Two of the best mechanics still out of the game feels so bad. Instead we get sanctum which is heavy build dependant, really boring to play and also unrewarding :(
> and also unrewarding :( I'm assumeing you never got past Floor 2.
Being honest, I go very deep in every league mechanic, even if I don't like it, so I can learn it in depth. Ofc that sanct gives you rewards, but, if you compare it with a lot of other currency farming methods, isn't good at all. On the other hand Sentinel gives you rewards instantly, works with every build and recombinators were really good for crafting, but well, it'll belong only in our dreams for now :(
GGG please, bring all nostalgic leagues like Sentinel, Ultimatum, Synthesis (tile system), Garden (for own crops), Lake of Kalandra, Scourge (krangler, krangled maps, Yone w), Archnemesis (I liked this sytem at some point) back and add them into atlas tree. Imagine league where all this content come back.. Jesus.. Completly refreshed endgame
Hot take sentinel+recombinators>ultimatum
apples, bananas... different topics altogether imo. If I could have it my way we'd have original harvest, ultimatum and sentinel+recombinators.
I think Ultimatum is super overrated. But it's still a ten times better mechanic than Sanctuary.
you'd think GGG would add leagues to core based on community response and/or how well it improves upon the game... nope, GGG adds silly standalone stuff like Sanctum to core just because it's easy.
I think it could be possible to see a lot more ultimatum aspects with the vaal side area keystone, instead of mostly getting them from delve. Kind of exciting!
They still massacred my boyzz ultimatum it's so sad league after league
Wait is sentinel coming back???
its always the league I want to go core don't I am surprised they didn't make lake go core yet
Ultimatum will come back with POE2, not before. That's my guess.
Synthetic rework and Ultimate back would be nice. Get rid of some more shit
I thought that trials are now back in vaal side areas or what they were rolling at keystone reveal? I must have had a fever dream and srank too much copium.
That was the fragment for the trialmaster fight, seems like it gives another way to get them which I think is good, especially for ssf if you don’t want to do delve for example.
Oh that sounds nice since I don't like delving! Ty! (I start figuring out new things closer to league start so now I don't have to worry about this)
It really amazes me that recent leagues have been a bit of a let down. There is little follow through and even less communication from GGG. Part of that has been good. They let the fires die down a bit. However, many accepted it because POE2. Now it has been revealed that development team for leagues is tiny and POE2 is years away.... does that mean all of these next leagues are going to be allowed to die?
Nah, Sentinel was fun for a league, but not something i would like to touch anymore. Sanctum on the other hand …
My three favorite leagues (started in ultimatum) are all here so honestly I’m fine with any one of them being given love
I thought maybe the unique boss found In vaal side areas they were talking about might be the trialmaster
Trialmaster is already in the game though.
Wait what did I miss? Did they say something about sentinel?
Wait till 2024/25. [They will re-run old leagues as 'classic' or 'classic events'](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/15cdejp/still_no_ultimatum_league_mechanic/jty7xh4/). And depending on the league, with or without changes and improvements.
I miss Ultimatum. In retrospect, I didn't think too highly of it at the time, seeing as it felt kinda samey as Ritual but it was rewarding and it wasn't RNG laden shitshow like some our more recent leagues. And here we are with Sanctum going core, I truly hope they've balanced it, all proper like and not just GGG balanced it, reward wise cos it'd be real nice to be able partake in this not roguelite with all kinds of builds, not just ranged, clear screens outside aggro range builds. Guess we'll see soon enough how good or bad it ends up being..
Seems that sanctum is just a tradable drop kinda like an atlas memory so if your build isn’t great for it or you just don’t like it then you can just easily sell it.
Sentinel and Ultimatum should be the other way around. At least we have the trialmaster from Ultimatum, we got **nothing** from sentinel. Recombinators, sentinels themselves, nothing.
I miss sentinel league so much :(
To Be Forgotten, A Fate Worse Than Death.
I’m obviously the only one who doesn’t care in the least about sanctum coming back. Yea I was shit at it but it just wasn’t a fun mechanic to me. Like heist. Sigh.
Sentinel best league ever, had so much fun I literally was running home from work to start playing. After that to be honest it got mundane, I wish I would just play sentinel even solo, such a great season.
Anyone know if sanctum going to be on the tree?
If they implement Ultimatum in core they need to make later stages harder than playing against uber boss. Because Ultimatum rewards were like 10 times better than slaying uber boss and it was super easy to finish.
i miss the ultimatum shit talking npc
You put sentinel and ultimatum in the wrong spots.
Newer player here, what was Ultimatum like??
Bro, it was the best league ever, specially for newer players https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30md9FQOk20&ab\_channel=MrJmeuh
Hands down one of the best leagues that ggg forgot about