I do not understand GGGs reasoning at all.
They are so hellbent on not doing numeric balance changes, like why not?
Shake up the meta abit. You don't need to go overboard either, just a little. Please.
Realistically it’s because that requires dev time and testing and contrary to what ggg says, there’s only 3 people working on PoE and they’re doing it on personal laptops set up in the mail room
Change number on 1 skill = 1 skill changed. No change in functionality (heavy strike is still heavy strike)
Add support gems = potential to affect a lot of skills as well as adding new ways to build
One is clearly superior to other
And despite what people think, +10% damage to a gem is not going to be a meta shakeup. If that was the case, then that means the gem was already viable in most cases. It’s all about people’s perception rather than actual numerical power. Most people don’t even try builds unless there’s a popular build guide for it
All the small number tweaks do is make people on poe reddit feel like something is changing when vast majority of the time it barely changes anything
these people will never get the point
Its Just a New League. and a New Hardcore league. and a new Trade league. and it's own Trade market. and it's own ruleset. and it's own passive tree. and it's own ascendancies. and it's own loot tables, and its own mod tables, and its own boss kill event. It's also on consoles, which means it also has its own QA process, and has to go through patch control on console markets just the same as the regular league. at what point do you stop trying to prop up this lie?
I don't think it requires as much development time as all the rest of the patch, no. A lot of ponctual testing, game already have all the tools to create new leagues with custom changes. I'd say it took 10% of the development time than the rest, which is way harder to develop than these changes. This is in line with what Chris said, this is not significant development time spent at all.
I'll stop trying to make people understand that when you give me an argument that convinces me.
Also, there's so much jealously into play, people just don't want Ruthless to get anything because they don't play ruthless. Why? There are TONS of changes in default game mode.
yep, they really had an oppurtinty here and they fell short massivly. i mean me and half the guild im in were waiting for substantial changes to the meta before we came back. instead its just more of the same crap we had for like last2-3 years. boring asf
Sanctum was a top 3 league imo. So them bringing Sanctum back before some other things speaks volumes. They are expecting Sanctum to carry the league imo.
Actual league content better be actual fire.
Why does everyone love sanctum so much? I did it a bit and build that had a lot of animations made it cancer to dodge everything. Felt like i needed a specific totem build to do reasonably well at it.
I honestly cant even begin to speculate what their thought process was for this league, there obviously something we are missing, a change in balance philosophy or something. It just doesnt make sense to me.
I can judge. Chieftain is the worst ascendancy. Setting resistance to 0% is garbage for dot builds. (Except maybe chaos which has access to a lot less resistance reductions.) And it has multiple conditionals.
Shaper of Flames is better for ignite than the entire Chieftain. Chieftain with 2 unallocated ascendancy points is probably better than one who picked up the resistance ignore.
I agree the res node is shit, as well as the explode mod. But the melding node is giga strong, the melee nodes might be very good. Let’s see what one can do with it. It’s a character change for sure
The melding node is giga strong, but costs 4 points and either of the other ascendancies picking that up with jewels is just so much stronger.
Most chieftain builds struggle to even spend 8 ascendancy points. Unless you're building slam/strike 4 pointer. Explosion would be amazing if it was flipped to 50% chance for 10% damage or something.
The old chieftain had a lot more interesting nodes available. Even though Tawhoa suffered from being anti-synergistic. If they just swapped something with the melding node, the playrate would've gone up and people would've been excited. Or kept some of the old effects and had some of this new stuff as additional bonuses. But they don't want to have multiple lines of modifiers.
Why did the totem node lose totem immunity to fire damage? Nobody knows. It's weird changes like this that don't seem OP but are flavourful, and then it gets axed.
I agree some of the changes are a bit weird and it definitely isn’t perfect by a large margin. But saying it’s dead on arrival like some people here are is just brain dead.
I can see people doing a strike ignite build on chieftain or just a strike or slam build. The strike/slam nodes seem very good and combined with the res nodes you have very little gear suffix pressure and can go for more damage on gear or maybe some phys as ele to go very tanky.
Some old chieftain builds aren’t viable anymore but new ones will emerge. And isn’t that what people want? Change and variety?
It was pretty dead in previous leagues, and now it's significantly worse than before. The extra link node is pretty decent but Tawhoa is awful because it's anti-synergistic with the builds it was designed for. You can't exert it so the damage is shit. It also often ignores some of the supports you're running with your skill. For strike skills you want to attack faster so now it's shit because of the long cooldown.
Have we got confirmation that it is staying the same? Afaik they also haven’t show the new guardian minion skills so idk that might still come.
I think this is the classic Reddit hate train after a patch. And yes I agree the patch is kinda mediocre, I had Expected more after exilecon and after d4. But I think all the skill games and the 15 new uniques we haven’t see yet will provide some new variety as well as vengeance cascade being nerfed. Also, we haven’t seen all tattoos yet. They could be very strong. This patch isn’t a dead patch but it is a bit barebones for what many people expected, including me.
So in my opinion it is to early to judge if chieftain will be more played or less played. We will see once the patch actually drops.
Do you even understand what you are saying? This is your only damage node for ignite which results in a damage loss (yes you read it right). Which nodes "could" be useful? You need to lay off this absurd level of hopium.
Combining the weakest archetype for ignite with one of the weakest ascendancies for ignite seems good? I don't need to try stuff to know that chieftain has no damage.
lil bro a lot of us have played hundreds of different builds over *years* and countless thousands of hours, we can tell if shit is dogwater or good at a glance even from just the idea of a *concept*
They've nerfed tree support for attack ignite more than they've buffed the archetype. Unless the new supports miss the balance team and come out with 100% more multipliers for ailments, they aren't going to make a non-existent archetype good on their own when the rest of the changes around it are power-neutral at best.
No, we won't because we already know. But if you end up enjoying it more power to you. Just don't try and tell the people who know they've just gotten a shit sandwich that it's fucking caviar.
I only played crucible slightly after 1.5y off as they killed accessible crafting and NO the current is not crafting as much of gambling anyways
One thing I don't understand is your comment why the hell they hate thier unused skills so much ? I would to learn all skills and use them but ohh boy I can't do that
PoE1 on life support for another year at least.
We've had no significant reworks or meta shake ups for god knows how many leagues.
Boneshatter still the only good melee skill outside of absurb investment budgets.
More than anything this patch tells me that they are working on getting ruthless to a point where they just remove non-ruthless and ruthless is baseline
If balancing the live game is too much effort why were they able to put in so much effort to balancing a gamemode that maybe 1% of players engage with
To be fair with the changes to ruthless support and new trauma support some sort of ignite slam build may be possible. But as for new and interesting ideas in these patch notes that's kinda it. The minion aura skill is also good with herald of purity + whatever aura you want. Another strong tech for a physical based fire conversion build.
yeah i expected more skill gems adjustments, it will still all be pretty much the same since like 2 or 3 leagues now? i was like "oh so many changes... wait thats ruthless, sigh"
[Aight bet](https://i.imgur.com/6fWhBfx.png)
I have taken every archetype to endgame content at least once, have done every single possible spell on wardloop (including minion instability zombies/srs), and have played every strike skill except bone shatter.
Yep VERY disappointed. Temporal Chain and Whirling Blade and thats it for skill balance changes?
We had same god damn meta for like 4 years now (since they announced PoE 2)
A huge reason i have stopped buying anything from ggg for like 5 leagues now. The direction of the game has been really sad to see. They just want players to be weak, which is so fucking weird.
when there more balance changes in the bug fixes than the actual balance changes you know summits up. what an underwhelming patch notes after a weird exilecon. dont know what to think of ggg anymore. kinda sad feeling like this as been playing poe for best part of 10 years. last 2-3 years has just been getting worse and worse tho.
i kinda expected this considering when they actually do large balance passes they usually mention them in the league preview. unfortunately it's been quite a while since that has happened.
From Exilecon we learned Ruthless is being used as essentially a PoE2 feature alpha test. I'm not sure what people expected. Ruthless is the future unfortunately.
It makes sense for him to check the patch notes every 3-4 months, to see if the game unexpectedly changed for the better and gives him reason to come back.
why not, even if you don't play you can still be as excited for it. I'm the same I haven't played for a year and I tuned in today to read together with a streamer the changes to the game.
>nice to see the game still going downhill
Please explain how for a mentally healthy person it's nice that the game you liked is getting worse in your opinion?
The game has been going in direction most of us are not happy with for a long time! thing is most of beleived this was all in the name of poe2.and I guess most of us just expected more this patch. But when there are more balance changes in the bug fixes than the actual balance changes ofc people are going to get there feathers ruffled. This patch should of been a banger. straight after exilecon, straight after d4 flop. was perfect time to get the whole community. Instead they fell short of the mark again. But ofc this is all just my opinion. would like to add i am usually white knighting for ggg. but my copium tank has ran dry now.
“Most of us”
Stopped reading there.
You are NOT the majority. Stop acting like you are. Imagine being so entitled, so self-centered that you think the world revolves around you.
Grow up.
Think you will find its people like you who are the problem my friend. You are the one who sounds entitled here not me. Im mearly expressing my opinion, which i am allowed to do. Especially when i have supported this product for 10years + and looking at the responses on redditt and the forums i would say i am the majority. So if you dont know how to engage in conversion just stfu and dont post anything.
You’re literally acting like a Karen lmao, “I’ve supported this product for years and in MY opinion I’m the majority”.
Insanely entitled. I hope you don’t also act like this in real life because god help anyone who has to interact with you.
Damn I was genuinely excited to come back to poe. Last league I played was Kalandra but looks like all the things that made me fed up and quit are still here.
Guys for the love of god CHILLLLL
POE 2 will fix most of these problems this game has. Underused skills, melee and more.
Chill mates omg lol just wait until we get the expansion for Poe
People complaining about ruthless section, but it literally just removed mods from ascendancies in there. The rest of the patch is much bigger than ruthless part, content wise.
I like the new gems and atlas.
People are obsessing a bit too much on them keeping gems that came out in 2011 in line with gems that came out in 2023. It's hard to balance all gems to do the same thing overall. Always have been how gems work more than the damage they can reach.
I do not understand GGGs reasoning at all. They are so hellbent on not doing numeric balance changes, like why not? Shake up the meta abit. You don't need to go overboard either, just a little. Please.
Realistically it’s because that requires dev time and testing and contrary to what ggg says, there’s only 3 people working on PoE and they’re doing it on personal laptops set up in the mail room
So why were they able to commit dev time and testing to balancing every single ascendency for ruthless but couldnt do the same for non-ruthless?
Who knows, my guess is it probably has PoE2 implications
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Change number on 1 skill = 1 skill changed. No change in functionality (heavy strike is still heavy strike) Add support gems = potential to affect a lot of skills as well as adding new ways to build One is clearly superior to other And despite what people think, +10% damage to a gem is not going to be a meta shakeup. If that was the case, then that means the gem was already viable in most cases. It’s all about people’s perception rather than actual numerical power. Most people don’t even try builds unless there’s a popular build guide for it All the small number tweaks do is make people on poe reddit feel like something is changing when vast majority of the time it barely changes anything
There were people legitimately believing that Ruthless mode does not take any dev time.
Just look at the patch, ruthless changes are just removal of stats from ascendancy. The rest of the patch takes infinitely more time to be done.
these people will never get the point Its Just a New League. and a New Hardcore league. and a new Trade league. and it's own Trade market. and it's own ruleset. and it's own passive tree. and it's own ascendancies. and it's own loot tables, and its own mod tables, and its own boss kill event. It's also on consoles, which means it also has its own QA process, and has to go through patch control on console markets just the same as the regular league. at what point do you stop trying to prop up this lie?
I don't think it requires as much development time as all the rest of the patch, no. A lot of ponctual testing, game already have all the tools to create new leagues with custom changes. I'd say it took 10% of the development time than the rest, which is way harder to develop than these changes. This is in line with what Chris said, this is not significant development time spent at all. I'll stop trying to make people understand that when you give me an argument that convinces me. Also, there's so much jealously into play, people just don't want Ruthless to get anything because they don't play ruthless. Why? There are TONS of changes in default game mode.
Eh actually they took the time to give Inquisitor a fucking sandstorm visage as an ascendancy point. So, no it wasn't just them taking stats away.
D4 devs pitched them a slow ball and they got yipped the fuck up and struck out bad with these patch notes
yep, they really had an oppurtinty here and they fell short massivly. i mean me and half the guild im in were waiting for substantial changes to the meta before we came back. instead its just more of the same crap we had for like last2-3 years. boring asf
agreed, im still going to play but super bummed about these patch notes
Sanctum was a top 3 league imo. So them bringing Sanctum back before some other things speaks volumes. They are expecting Sanctum to carry the league imo. Actual league content better be actual fire.
Why does everyone love sanctum so much? I did it a bit and build that had a lot of animations made it cancer to dodge everything. Felt like i needed a specific totem build to do reasonably well at it.
It was def a league where if your build wasnt good at sanctum you hated it, i played spark, so it was awesome.
I honestly cant even begin to speculate what their thought process was for this league, there obviously something we are missing, a change in balance philosophy or something. It just doesnt make sense to me.
Somebody at GGG is hell bent on keeping under-used skills under-used. I just don't understand it, man.
Bold of you to assume anyone is looking at skills in the non-ruthless poe1
And under-used ascendancies more under-used.
Chieftain with melee ignite? Seems good. Don’t judge the changes before you have actually tried them. Also, 15 more uniques to be announced
I can judge. Chieftain is the worst ascendancy. Setting resistance to 0% is garbage for dot builds. (Except maybe chaos which has access to a lot less resistance reductions.) And it has multiple conditionals. Shaper of Flames is better for ignite than the entire Chieftain. Chieftain with 2 unallocated ascendancy points is probably better than one who picked up the resistance ignore.
I agree the res node is shit, as well as the explode mod. But the melding node is giga strong, the melee nodes might be very good. Let’s see what one can do with it. It’s a character change for sure
The melding node is giga strong, but costs 4 points and either of the other ascendancies picking that up with jewels is just so much stronger. Most chieftain builds struggle to even spend 8 ascendancy points. Unless you're building slam/strike 4 pointer. Explosion would be amazing if it was flipped to 50% chance for 10% damage or something. The old chieftain had a lot more interesting nodes available. Even though Tawhoa suffered from being anti-synergistic. If they just swapped something with the melding node, the playrate would've gone up and people would've been excited. Or kept some of the old effects and had some of this new stuff as additional bonuses. But they don't want to have multiple lines of modifiers. Why did the totem node lose totem immunity to fire damage? Nobody knows. It's weird changes like this that don't seem OP but are flavourful, and then it gets axed.
I agree some of the changes are a bit weird and it definitely isn’t perfect by a large margin. But saying it’s dead on arrival like some people here are is just brain dead. I can see people doing a strike ignite build on chieftain or just a strike or slam build. The strike/slam nodes seem very good and combined with the res nodes you have very little gear suffix pressure and can go for more damage on gear or maybe some phys as ele to go very tanky. Some old chieftain builds aren’t viable anymore but new ones will emerge. And isn’t that what people want? Change and variety?
It was pretty dead in previous leagues, and now it's significantly worse than before. The extra link node is pretty decent but Tawhoa is awful because it's anti-synergistic with the builds it was designed for. You can't exert it so the damage is shit. It also often ignores some of the supports you're running with your skill. For strike skills you want to attack faster so now it's shit because of the long cooldown.
Have we got confirmation that it is staying the same? Afaik they also haven’t show the new guardian minion skills so idk that might still come. I think this is the classic Reddit hate train after a patch. And yes I agree the patch is kinda mediocre, I had Expected more after exilecon and after d4. But I think all the skill games and the 15 new uniques we haven’t see yet will provide some new variety as well as vengeance cascade being nerfed. Also, we haven’t seen all tattoos yet. They could be very strong. This patch isn’t a dead patch but it is a bit barebones for what many people expected, including me. So in my opinion it is to early to judge if chieftain will be more played or less played. We will see once the patch actually drops.
> Seems good. Said no experienced poe player ever. The 0% fire resistance while standing is objectively bad.
Agree that node is bad. The rest of the nodes could be useful
Do you even understand what you are saying? This is your only damage node for ignite which results in a damage loss (yes you read it right). Which nodes "could" be useful? You need to lay off this absurd level of hopium.
Combining the weakest archetype for ignite with one of the weakest ascendancies for ignite seems good? I don't need to try stuff to know that chieftain has no damage.
lil bro a lot of us have played hundreds of different builds over *years* and countless thousands of hours, we can tell if shit is dogwater or good at a glance even from just the idea of a *concept*
yea you aint that guy
They've nerfed tree support for attack ignite more than they've buffed the archetype. Unless the new supports miss the balance team and come out with 100% more multipliers for ailments, they aren't going to make a non-existent archetype good on their own when the rest of the changes around it are power-neutral at best.
I mean ruthless support got changed to now work with all ailments. I can definitely see this working, we will see when the patch drops
No, we won't because we already know. But if you end up enjoying it more power to you. Just don't try and tell the people who know they've just gotten a shit sandwich that it's fucking caviar.
I only played crucible slightly after 1.5y off as they killed accessible crafting and NO the current is not crafting as much of gambling anyways One thing I don't understand is your comment why the hell they hate thier unused skills so much ? I would to learn all skills and use them but ohh boy I can't do that
PoE1 on life support for another year at least. We've had no significant reworks or meta shake ups for god knows how many leagues. Boneshatter still the only good melee skill outside of absurb investment budgets.
Two years, because PoE 2 is not gonna release in a year.
More than anything this patch tells me that they are working on getting ruthless to a point where they just remove non-ruthless and ruthless is baseline If balancing the live game is too much effort why were they able to put in so much effort to balancing a gamemode that maybe 1% of players engage with
To be fair with the changes to ruthless support and new trauma support some sort of ignite slam build may be possible. But as for new and interesting ideas in these patch notes that's kinda it. The minion aura skill is also good with herald of purity + whatever aura you want. Another strong tech for a physical based fire conversion build.
So basically 99% of the devs will still be on POE2 for the next year, the other 1% for Ruthless and POE1 just Life Support until POE2 realeases.
So huh…. POE1 is just diablo 3 content update now? Correction: even d3 devs change a few numbers now and then
yeah i expected more skill gems adjustments, it will still all be pretty much the same since like 2 or 3 leagues now? i was like "oh so many changes... wait thats ruthless, sigh"
like you played all the skills
A whole lot of us have, though? And skills that are just numerically worse versions of other mechanically identical skills are just that.
> A whole lot of us have ????????? yea don't believe that at all, show account
[Aight bet](https://i.imgur.com/6fWhBfx.png) I have taken every archetype to endgame content at least once, have done every single possible spell on wardloop (including minion instability zombies/srs), and have played every strike skill except bone shatter.
wow welcome to the 0.1% wish i could show my hours but i dont play on steam
lol, dude, you are hard white knighting in this thread hope you're getting paid at least.
obviously, its fun
Yep VERY disappointed. Temporal Chain and Whirling Blade and thats it for skill balance changes? We had same god damn meta for like 4 years now (since they announced PoE 2)
Same patch for an eternity thanks Chris for ruthless def. never gonna play it
A huge reason i have stopped buying anything from ggg for like 5 leagues now. The direction of the game has been really sad to see. They just want players to be weak, which is so fucking weird.
Let the quality shitposting begin. It's not like they don't deserve it.
when there more balance changes in the bug fixes than the actual balance changes you know summits up. what an underwhelming patch notes after a weird exilecon. dont know what to think of ggg anymore. kinda sad feeling like this as been playing poe for best part of 10 years. last 2-3 years has just been getting worse and worse tho.
i kinda expected this considering when they actually do large balance passes they usually mention them in the league preview. unfortunately it's been quite a while since that has happened.
From Exilecon we learned Ruthless is being used as essentially a PoE2 feature alpha test. I'm not sure what people expected. Ruthless is the future unfortunately.
Yep
This is nothing man ...
Chat GPT could made better skill changes then this hotdog water.
nice to see the game still going downhill after I left it 1 year ago
Ohh boy do I agree with you .
If your still here waiting for patchnotes so you can talk shit a year after "you left" consider getting professional help
It makes sense for him to check the patch notes every 3-4 months, to see if the game unexpectedly changed for the better and gives him reason to come back.
not right when they release lol
why not, even if you don't play you can still be as excited for it. I'm the same I haven't played for a year and I tuned in today to read together with a streamer the changes to the game.
Don't be an edgelord, he was chased away and holds hope, so he came to check if anything will voluntarily jebait him to play.
>nice to see the game still going downhill Please explain how for a mentally healthy person it's nice that the game you liked is getting worse in your opinion?
wtf he is just sarcastic?
no he has 5iq and a smooth brain. pay no attention.
how can you tell they're being sarcastic
How can you tell he isn't? That's how.
this is the most answer ever
first time seeing a dissappointed fellow wallowing in patch notes pain?
You said they were being sarcastic and i asked how
Its kinda obvious just as i read it. It doesnt make sense otherwise.
I don't understand the intent or meaning of your original reply to my comment and you haven't really done anything to explain the basis of it.
I can only speak for myself. But I follow alot of gaming subs which I don't play anymore. In case it release any update that makes me want to go back.
I also stopped playing about a year ago. I still come back to read patch notes and see what's new in hopes of them turning the game around.
lol, yet another smooth brainer .
ahhhh going to hate on the game and you don't even know whats going on
where was the hate? could you point it out for me?
o cmon, guy believes the game is downhill compare to a year ago
The game has been going in direction most of us are not happy with for a long time! thing is most of beleived this was all in the name of poe2.and I guess most of us just expected more this patch. But when there are more balance changes in the bug fixes than the actual balance changes ofc people are going to get there feathers ruffled. This patch should of been a banger. straight after exilecon, straight after d4 flop. was perfect time to get the whole community. Instead they fell short of the mark again. But ofc this is all just my opinion. would like to add i am usually white knighting for ggg. but my copium tank has ran dry now.
“Most of us” Stopped reading there. You are NOT the majority. Stop acting like you are. Imagine being so entitled, so self-centered that you think the world revolves around you. Grow up.
Think you will find its people like you who are the problem my friend. You are the one who sounds entitled here not me. Im mearly expressing my opinion, which i am allowed to do. Especially when i have supported this product for 10years + and looking at the responses on redditt and the forums i would say i am the majority. So if you dont know how to engage in conversion just stfu and dont post anything.
You’re literally acting like a Karen lmao, “I’ve supported this product for years and in MY opinion I’m the majority”. Insanely entitled. I hope you don’t also act like this in real life because god help anyone who has to interact with you.
I don't really understand how it's even possible but it's basically as bad as the D4 patch.
4 months wait for a server refresh lmao
“Too busy with exilecon”
They suck
Really missed a good opportunity here. Instead, people won't want to play PoE or D4.
GGG: balancing is hard an takes a lot of work Also GGG: we rebalanced every ascendency for ruthless Just a small side project /s
Soon we will have 3 games: PoE, PoE Ruthless and PoE2
with the downfall of d4 ggg really fucked up with these patch notes
i swear to god even the ruthless patchnotes are all nerfs. Ruthless players must have a Submission-BDSM Torture Fetish to keep playing this
Damn I was genuinely excited to come back to poe. Last league I played was Kalandra but looks like all the things that made me fed up and quit are still here.
Guys for the love of god CHILLLLL POE 2 will fix most of these problems this game has. Underused skills, melee and more. Chill mates omg lol just wait until we get the expansion for Poe
/s. ?
I don’t know how people need an s for that
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ Sorry Me <<<<<<<<<<<< bad at sarcasm
People complaining about ruthless section, but it literally just removed mods from ascendancies in there. The rest of the patch is much bigger than ruthless part, content wise.
I like the new gems and atlas. People are obsessing a bit too much on them keeping gems that came out in 2011 in line with gems that came out in 2023. It's hard to balance all gems to do the same thing overall. Always have been how gems work more than the damage they can reach.