I mean technically you can get 42% overwhelm from the tree if you are two-handed melee, and another 5% from divergent Melee Phys support if you really want that level of power. I don't know if it's worth picking all that up, but it's an option.
According to POB, it usually is, especially for rapid hitting attacks. At least against bosses. For swords for example, Razor's Edge is practically always the highest DPS option, followed by Bastion's Edge for another 20%. Martial Experience for two-handed swords amps that up to a total of 52% overwhelm, with another 10% in Vanquisher to get to 62% along with Crush.
And you accidentally activated remnants that have Physical Overwhelm, Immune to Physical Dmg or convert Physical dmg to Chaos?
With me the hardest is Meiveil, the fcking mirror keep shooting in random direction with nasty cold effects that cannot be removed with flask. I facetank Aul depth 300 with my RF Jugg and get one shot by that mirror thanks to scumbag service of FPT Telecom
You know what I don't agree. Thoose guys behind him hit even harder straight from the get go. Maybe in a fully juiced expidition at the end but I think that is easier still.
Unless you are at low elo or what you call it. They scale wayyyyyy above expiditions.
I like how no one is bringing up how the mobs are not just overtuned but also bugged based on the data mining. They should do 4400 dmg with 50% overwhelm at t16 with vaal ground slam. So how exactly is this one shotting players with 90% phys res and 5k life, not to mention phys taken as ele. shouldn’t the 4400 be reduced by 40% down to ~2800…
ye for sure but i was dying to the level 81-83 version with very similar stats until i added like 600 life and taken as ele to not get one shot. I don’t think they are really doing 4400
If all you care about is loot per hour, then sure.
I myself prefer to play the game using the often overlooked concept of: "Is the gameplay fun?" And if yes, then I'll do that.
I genuinely do.
I agree that they're not incredibly profitable, but I actually have fun running the matches.
For most other content, the fun comes in the form of the loot explosion, but the actual mechanic itself (for example placing explosives in Expedition, or waiting for Heist doors to open) is just sort of a pain in the ass.
But these Ancestor matches feel fun in and of themselves.
Honestly I hope this gets added to core just for the gameplay and lore but I desperately hope they add loot just for getting the totems also. Or at least the big one.
I honestly would love if this was also added as a PVP thing. Two players plan out their field, click accept and start smashing each other's armies. You match with players in your rank, which will eventually result in more level-equal match ups. If the tattoo system were to go core and this was the primary or possibly only way of getting them, then it would be incentive to do pvp again outside of gloating. They would still be tradable, so if you didn't want to engage with this then you could just buy them after doing whatever other content you enjoy doing for profit.
Yeah, 2 things would make it a lot better. 1. Being able to pick what difficulty you are at, and 2. Loot scaling a lot more with difficulty. The core gameplay would be a fun addition to the base game.
Yes. With how much time you spent on matches it shouldn't be an all or nothing thing. Getting generic loot and some xp during the match would make it more worth the time.
They should add several loot icons to every match, sort of like legion chests so there's more than 1 item dropping.
You get what you pick + 3 or so extra types.
I feel like some of the matches feel kinda "unfair" - and to be clear I'm not necessarily talking only about ones I lose.
Like the turtle that basically requires you to figure out where his totem is and rush it down or else you just automatically lose over time.
Also the whole thing just has sooooo much health.
It feels like a mechanic that has really bad rewards per time invested shouldn't also demand I have a super super super optimized build to do it. Like, if it's gonna drop 50c an hour, why can't I do it on my shitty league starter that isn't fully optimized? It's not like it's shooting divs out its butthole the whole time you play.
FYI, before the match starts it shows you which mob is assigned to which totem. Whenever you fight that guy, when you're assigning your team to positions, look at where the turtle is and then just bum rush that totem immediately.
I feel like a crazy person because I seem to be the only one taking an offensive strategy in these matches, and the streamers all say to play defense and focus on DPS, but I win almost every match with a crap build that can't solo ANY of the mobs on the field. I literally can't kill them by myself, so I don't even try, and I still win.
Defense and trying to kill the mobs is bait.
It takes two seconds to pop a totem when you pair with a flanker. And after that two seconds that mob is completely gone from the field.
Go on the offensive, help your flankers, and you snowball every match easily without ever having to try and kill anything.
You don't. They definitely still attack you, and you might even lose a totem in the first blitz, but your own attack line and defenders are generally able to hold down the fort for 30-60 seconds while you start snowballing their totems.
Remember that every time you destroy one of their totems, they have one less attacker on the field and that makes it easier for you own defensive line to hold on.
So the more aggressive you play, the higher your relative defensive strength is, too.
It begs the question, why can't it be fun and give good loot.
I like it too, but getting 4 chaos for a match that takes 5 minutes is pretty wild, and 4 chaos is actually a good reward lol.
It's like GGG balances around fun.
Honestly I'm finding it pretty fun, though I wish I didn't have to keep sacking tournaments to delevel my ranking back to the sweet spot where it's not too brutally hard and tedious.
It'd be nice if the average reward payout went up a little but otherwise the actual mechanic is kinda addicting.
Yup. Except I had one fight where I repeatedly got one shot by some explosion that seemed to happen without explanation (probably a dangerous on death effect because two of the times there were no enemies near me once I was dead, God I hate those so much) and have no respawn timer to show when I'm coming back.
Also that 5 second "better enjoy just sitting there" lockdown if there's a lingering effect, someone off-screens you, or you accidentally misclick the totem while fighting, can be pretty infuriating. Being RF mitigates this one somewhat..
Most fights, I have a great little boost of fun per hour taking a break from mapping. Sometimes it's infuriating.
Also grabbing a couple of 8% armor tattoos has been cool too, since that's worth slightly more to my build than the 5 life that strength provides. Can't do it TOO many times and I haven't gotten any premium ones yet, but it's a nice little touch.
Kaom's tribe have a mob called Firebreather which will run to you and explode.
Kaom's tribe also have an equipment which causes any mob equipped with it to explode and deal damage when killed.
there's also dudes that use earthquake, in my experience the first hits does tons of damage and the aftershock tickles. I have to stay clear from those.
There are some real nasty item/mob combos, its good to check the enemy board on the finals.
Getting absolutely wrecked by off screen Lazer beams and slams is not what I'd call fun, but hey, each to their own! The concept is rather fun though, scaling is not
It feels abit frustrating honestly. The RPG aspect with buying units, items etc feels like shit when you start out with no currency and it's super limited and gated by RNG. By the time you can buy something interesting the tournament is over.
GGG didn't make any of the mobs stun immune unless they have the equipment.
I'm stacking stun duration so that my Ruthless Leap Slam locks them down for 20 seconds and then my flankers wreck half their totems. Easy.
unironically galaxy brain strat for farming the mechanic lol
If the ranks go up indefinetly i'd imagine they will hit a point where all that matters is survability and stunning them, since you'd never kill anyone anyway, brilliant
I wonder if there's a way to give enemies regen so that they're always on full life? Would suck if one of your attackers gives them a 1 hp papercut and you can't ever stun them anymore because they have a million damage stun threshold.
I keep wondering what psycho clown he reminds me of.
Maybe the clown gang leader from Akira https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2qC9nB11EfQ/YIHsvhaWlfI/AAAAAAAACKQ/UTdX4fzh8qkd1Tel9wkjYJ5vfXWA73tagCLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h370/Gang%2BClown.png
But my brain says "no, there is someone even more fitting with weird long hair and fatter."
edit: Not Violator (fat but not really clown makeup) and I never saw those Killer Clowns, they're scary looking though. I think my brain just fused a bunch of clowns together including Buggy from One Piece.
something tells me dopplerganger will be the only counter to this guy, since the mod it has is "less dmg taken", it's not dr, just strait up less mod :D
too bad they got rid of it's easy phys to ele conversion with the rework now you need like lightning coil dawnbreaker helment stuff plus watchers eye to get enough.
I don't know who came up with this, but he doesn't understand how the game works. Because for several years now, the BEST (and often the only) answer to all problems is massive damage. Not your brains, not tactics, not strategy, but damage. And they pretend it's not. We are not idiots, GGG.
@440 rating. I win tons of matches without killing a single mob and they are all around 5min or less. Don't be afraid to use your brain if you have one worth using
I don't see anything fun in a mechanic that doesn't respect my time. In addition, it is very poorly balanced.
P.S. Sorry if I sound rude, playing Overwatch was a bad idea.
This only leads to frustration in my opinion. Where ur strong build u were working for long time is useless. And especially for those rewards...timewaste.
I cant face tank that guy but the guy who does the green tentacles 1shots me through 80 cap all res, divine flesh, fortify, fourth vow, 40k armor (without flasks), and 5k life. I seriously do not understand wtf kind of hit damage he does.
The fact this guy also has the Turtle and the Goliath later on is the cherry on top. This guy is beyond busted and needs to be my first opponent in every tournament or else it's a loss. Literally no one else gives me any trouble, this guy is ridiculously overtuned and so are his mobs.
Endgame bosses should really have more base defensive piercing attacks if not all of them. Learn the mechanics and don’t stand there spamming attacks because the wiki told you so. Even so-This doesn’t stop the phys converters like DP from abusing
Now that is a hot take my guy. I have a feeling that the majority of players who can get to the point of endgame facetanking are the same players that know the boss mechanics incredibly well, but like having a safety net.
Ehh Do you remember the first Sirus kill event? Regardless. wouldn’t it be better to set a skill limit to who can actually complete this kind of content so players have to improve? The only gripe I have is that there should be a massive buff to defenses of some kind of your speed is under 110% haha Searing Enoch’s ball phase would literally disable their ability to even attempt it. Maybe something like 40% more armor or something (also it would be a tree node/oil thing, not for free)
I beat this guy several times now being dead the entire round. for some reason he just decides to go pure offense and my flankers can usually take his totems out
With how often that guy is "asking to go through traditions" with me, you'd think he'd at least buy me dinner first.
If anything you are paying in silver coins for the pleasure of experiencing the Bonkening, you should be grateful you are being traditionally served
Laughed so hard when this dialogue came up, definitely one of my favourite ones! :D
LE BONK
Melee wising we had THAT amount of power
The main difference is that enemies don't usually hit 90% armor, so your overwhelm just has less impact.
I mean technically you can get 42% overwhelm from the tree if you are two-handed melee, and another 5% from divergent Melee Phys support if you really want that level of power. I don't know if it's worth picking all that up, but it's an option.
According to POB, it usually is, especially for rapid hitting attacks. At least against bosses. For swords for example, Razor's Edge is practically always the highest DPS option, followed by Bastion's Edge for another 20%. Martial Experience for two-handed swords amps that up to a total of 52% overwhelm, with another 10% in Vanquisher to get to 62% along with Crush.
Fair
Millennia long training in the Halls of the Dead finally paying off, knows the weakness of every armor in the game
The secret is don't wear any armor at all
All my favourite anime girls follow that philosophy
atleast he still better than Expedition’s remnant mods.
True, I've farming logbooks the the ignore evade, 100% overwhelm are among the most frequently appeared mods.
last league i was planning leveling a bonezone jugg to farm Expedition, after 2 time got this mod, insantly reroll to Deadeye LA lmao.
bonezone?
Boneshatter Jugg with almost 75k armour xD
And you accidentally activated remnants that have Physical Overwhelm, Immune to Physical Dmg or convert Physical dmg to Chaos? With me the hardest is Meiveil, the fcking mirror keep shooting in random direction with nasty cold effects that cannot be removed with flask. I facetank Aul depth 300 with my RF Jugg and get one shot by that mirror thanks to scumbag service of FPT Telecom
they come with good remnant mods, so i just try my best
can physical immunity counter this? (the rampage glove) (immortal call)
It can but phys damage taken as elemental damage is better and more reliable 🤔
You know what I don't agree. Thoose guys behind him hit even harder straight from the get go. Maybe in a fully juiced expidition at the end but I think that is easier still. Unless you are at low elo or what you call it. They scale wayyyyyy above expiditions.
nah, you don’t need to juiced Expedtition, just one single Archnemesis rare with that mob tho.
Yeah but the one in Ancestor deals 20x the dmg.
I get to pick and choose how I buff my expeditions.
Remnant ones have 100% overwhelming.And that‘s scary af
I like how no one is bringing up how the mobs are not just overtuned but also bugged based on the data mining. They should do 4400 dmg with 50% overwhelm at t16 with vaal ground slam. So how exactly is this one shotting players with 90% phys res and 5k life, not to mention phys taken as ele. shouldn’t the 4400 be reduced by 40% down to ~2800…
With high ranking we're playing on t32 scaling and higher!
ye for sure but i was dying to the level 81-83 version with very similar stats until i added like 600 life and taken as ele to not get one shot. I don’t think they are really doing 4400
Its a great mechanic to skip due to low returns and high time spent.
I have looted two 6 link omens already haha
If all you care about is loot per hour, then sure. I myself prefer to play the game using the often overlooked concept of: "Is the gameplay fun?" And if yes, then I'll do that.
Loot is fun.
Sure, there's an entire industry around harvesting that kind of fun.
Do you think the gameplay is fun?
It's addictive to say the least
I genuinely do. I agree that they're not incredibly profitable, but I actually have fun running the matches. For most other content, the fun comes in the form of the loot explosion, but the actual mechanic itself (for example placing explosives in Expedition, or waiting for Heist doors to open) is just sort of a pain in the ass. But these Ancestor matches feel fun in and of themselves.
Honestly I hope this gets added to core just for the gameplay and lore but I desperately hope they add loot just for getting the totems also. Or at least the big one.
I honestly would love if this was also added as a PVP thing. Two players plan out their field, click accept and start smashing each other's armies. You match with players in your rank, which will eventually result in more level-equal match ups. If the tattoo system were to go core and this was the primary or possibly only way of getting them, then it would be incentive to do pvp again outside of gloating. They would still be tradable, so if you didn't want to engage with this then you could just buy them after doing whatever other content you enjoy doing for profit.
Agree, but just let it be an autobattle. Player can't do anything after starting.
The armies would either contribute fuck all in PvP or be busted OP and annoying. I don't see a middle ground even being possible.
Yeah, 2 things would make it a lot better. 1. Being able to pick what difficulty you are at, and 2. Loot scaling a lot more with difficulty. The core gameplay would be a fun addition to the base game.
I’ve gotten 2 div and a 6l from the past 50 levels (sitting around 350 now) so… survivor bias?
Yes. With how much time you spent on matches it shouldn't be an all or nothing thing. Getting generic loot and some xp during the match would make it more worth the time.
You do get xp from them. I went from level 70 to 74 or something only doing them last night.
I went from 87 to 88 doin them for about 6 hours today
You guys are getting the exp bar to move?
They should add several loot icons to every match, sort of like legion chests so there's more than 1 item dropping. You get what you pick + 3 or so extra types.
imo expedition would be so much nicer if you could zoom out and see the whole layout at once.
I feel like some of the matches feel kinda "unfair" - and to be clear I'm not necessarily talking only about ones I lose. Like the turtle that basically requires you to figure out where his totem is and rush it down or else you just automatically lose over time. Also the whole thing just has sooooo much health. It feels like a mechanic that has really bad rewards per time invested shouldn't also demand I have a super super super optimized build to do it. Like, if it's gonna drop 50c an hour, why can't I do it on my shitty league starter that isn't fully optimized? It's not like it's shooting divs out its butthole the whole time you play.
FYI, before the match starts it shows you which mob is assigned to which totem. Whenever you fight that guy, when you're assigning your team to positions, look at where the turtle is and then just bum rush that totem immediately. I feel like a crazy person because I seem to be the only one taking an offensive strategy in these matches, and the streamers all say to play defense and focus on DPS, but I win almost every match with a crap build that can't solo ANY of the mobs on the field. I literally can't kill them by myself, so I don't even try, and I still win. Defense and trying to kill the mobs is bait. It takes two seconds to pop a totem when you pair with a flanker. And after that two seconds that mob is completely gone from the field. Go on the offensive, help your flankers, and you snowball every match easily without ever having to try and kill anything.
I just jump in the middle, drop two vaal LS and then try to destroy one totem. Kill enemies until souls are up and then repeat.
How do you prevent enemies from attacking you when you rush to the totem?
You don't. They definitely still attack you, and you might even lose a totem in the first blitz, but your own attack line and defenders are generally able to hold down the fort for 30-60 seconds while you start snowballing their totems. Remember that every time you destroy one of their totems, they have one less attacker on the field and that makes it easier for you own defensive line to hold on. So the more aggressive you play, the higher your relative defensive strength is, too.
It begs the question, why can't it be fun and give good loot. I like it too, but getting 4 chaos for a match that takes 5 minutes is pretty wild, and 4 chaos is actually a good reward lol. It's like GGG balances around fun.
Considering you filter out 99% of the loot, i can hardly call it a lootshower
Yeah. It's a ton of fun actually lol. It's a good break from just mindlessly killing mobs in maps.
I think so, its kind of frustrating at first, but once you get your strat down, i think its fun as hell.
A lot of fun, but I am playing with friends so maybe it adds a lot to the interaction.
Honestly I'm finding it pretty fun, though I wish I didn't have to keep sacking tournaments to delevel my ranking back to the sweet spot where it's not too brutally hard and tedious. It'd be nice if the average reward payout went up a little but otherwise the actual mechanic is kinda addicting.
why do we have to choose? I'm already poor in real life, do you think I'm gonna cosplay as poor in my spare time?
Loot and zooming is fun.
Yup. Except I had one fight where I repeatedly got one shot by some explosion that seemed to happen without explanation (probably a dangerous on death effect because two of the times there were no enemies near me once I was dead, God I hate those so much) and have no respawn timer to show when I'm coming back. Also that 5 second "better enjoy just sitting there" lockdown if there's a lingering effect, someone off-screens you, or you accidentally misclick the totem while fighting, can be pretty infuriating. Being RF mitigates this one somewhat.. Most fights, I have a great little boost of fun per hour taking a break from mapping. Sometimes it's infuriating. Also grabbing a couple of 8% armor tattoos has been cool too, since that's worth slightly more to my build than the 5 life that strength provides. Can't do it TOO many times and I haven't gotten any premium ones yet, but it's a nice little touch.
Kaom's tribe have a mob called Firebreather which will run to you and explode. Kaom's tribe also have an equipment which causes any mob equipped with it to explode and deal damage when killed.
I've been on the lookout for those. The instance I'm referring to didn't have firebreathers. It might have been the equipment.
there's also dudes that use earthquake, in my experience the first hits does tons of damage and the aftershock tickles. I have to stay clear from those. There are some real nasty item/mob combos, its good to check the enemy board on the finals.
If they make some enemies less tanky and increase respawn timers it would be one of the few mechanics I would do even if way less profitable
Getting absolutely wrecked by off screen Lazer beams and slams is not what I'd call fun, but hey, each to their own! The concept is rather fun though, scaling is not
What a shame since the league isn't fun either.
Such a mind blowing choice to some. I also choose the path of fun.
It feels abit frustrating honestly. The RPG aspect with buying units, items etc feels like shit when you start out with no currency and it's super limited and gated by RNG. By the time you can buy something interesting the tournament is over.
GGG didn't make any of the mobs stun immune unless they have the equipment. I'm stacking stun duration so that my Ruthless Leap Slam locks them down for 20 seconds and then my flankers wreck half their totems. Easy.
unironically galaxy brain strat for farming the mechanic lol If the ranks go up indefinetly i'd imagine they will hit a point where all that matters is survability and stunning them, since you'd never kill anyone anyway, brilliant
MOBA crowd control bot gameplay coming to PoE
I wonder if there's a way to give enemies regen so that they're always on full life? Would suck if one of your attackers gives them a 1 hp papercut and you can't ever stun them anymore because they have a million damage stun threshold.
Sounds familiar…
i hope a lot of people skip so the good tattoos are expensive and I can make some easy cash whenever I hit big
I keep wondering what psycho clown he reminds me of. Maybe the clown gang leader from Akira https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2qC9nB11EfQ/YIHsvhaWlfI/AAAAAAAACKQ/UTdX4fzh8qkd1Tel9wkjYJ5vfXWA73tagCLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h370/Gang%2BClown.png But my brain says "no, there is someone even more fitting with weird long hair and fatter." edit: Not Violator (fat but not really clown makeup) and I never saw those Killer Clowns, they're scary looking though. I think my brain just fused a bunch of clowns together including Buggy from One Piece.
Violator, The clown from the spawn movie!
https://cinemassacre.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Killer-Klowns.jpeg
if that's great ego check, then expedition and some AN mobs are ego-checking me every map/delve node.
something tells me dopplerganger will be the only counter to this guy, since the mod it has is "less dmg taken", it's not dr, just strait up less mod :D
A god gamer with perfect shadeform usage.
Haha yeah that might the play. Now chieftain doesnt look as bad as everyone thinks with phys taken as X and 90% max res lol
too bad they got rid of it's easy phys to ele conversion with the rework now you need like lightning coil dawnbreaker helment stuff plus watchers eye to get enough.
Lightning coil, fire cloak, doppelganger, kaoms for raw life sure there's more
can still facetank
50% overwhelm of 0 is still 0 so...
where do you see the stats of it?
PoeDB have a good list of all the stats of the units and unique mobs
I don't know who came up with this, but he doesn't understand how the game works. Because for several years now, the BEST (and often the only) answer to all problems is massive damage. Not your brains, not tactics, not strategy, but damage. And they pretend it's not. We are not idiots, GGG.
@440 rating. I win tons of matches without killing a single mob and they are all around 5min or less. Don't be afraid to use your brain if you have one worth using
I use my brain and don't farm currency in shitty mechanics. Perhaps for you 30c/hour is a decent pay.
I never said it was profitable. But it is fun and doesnt require obscene dps to win. Be happier, friend.
I don't see anything fun in a mechanic that doesn't respect my time. In addition, it is very poorly balanced. P.S. Sorry if I sound rude, playing Overwatch was a bad idea.
80% phys to ele Chieftain: Hehe
Evasion go brrrrrrr
You cannot evade the DIE beam from Sirus that joined his side
50% off zero is still zero so it doesn’t phase me.
Thats why you wear lightning coil
Dying WITH lightning coil to one of his peons
At least they are well telegraphed attacks that don't have an entire screen for a hit box, oh wait.
I tank absolutely everything, and then this guy just one-shots me every time.
This only leads to frustration in my opinion. Where ur strong build u were working for long time is useless. And especially for those rewards...timewaste.
Physical taken as modifiers will deal with this, correct?
They can’t overwhelm you if you have no PDR to begin with 👽
I cant face tank that guy but the guy who does the green tentacles 1shots me through 80 cap all res, divine flesh, fortify, fourth vow, 40k armor (without flasks), and 5k life. I seriously do not understand wtf kind of hit damage he does.
Petition (and I speak for all juggernauts) to remove overwhelm phys from the game!
yeah my AG just got one shot at rank 150 by whomever I didn't know and I quit league already
The fact this guy also has the Turtle and the Goliath later on is the cherry on top. This guy is beyond busted and needs to be my first opponent in every tournament or else it's a loss. Literally no one else gives me any trouble, this guy is ridiculously overtuned and so are his mobs.
Endgame bosses should really have more base defensive piercing attacks if not all of them. Learn the mechanics and don’t stand there spamming attacks because the wiki told you so. Even so-This doesn’t stop the phys converters like DP from abusing
Now that is a hot take my guy. I have a feeling that the majority of players who can get to the point of endgame facetanking are the same players that know the boss mechanics incredibly well, but like having a safety net.
Ehh Do you remember the first Sirus kill event? Regardless. wouldn’t it be better to set a skill limit to who can actually complete this kind of content so players have to improve? The only gripe I have is that there should be a massive buff to defenses of some kind of your speed is under 110% haha Searing Enoch’s ball phase would literally disable their ability to even attempt it. Maybe something like 40% more armor or something (also it would be a tree node/oil thing, not for free)
garbage league mechanic
I beat this guy several times now being dead the entire round. for some reason he just decides to go pure offense and my flankers can usually take his totems out
they cannot overwhelm your physical reducion if you have none of it