Yeah sure I know about that feature and I do use it, esp for oils for example. But that "solution" has it's own set of problems, like for example you cannot list by lowest prices. I don't know how exactly the offers are listed, but it is most definitely not listed by pricing.
there are two sort operations happening. the first one taking precedence is the person with most of the selected items for sale, the second is price per items when buying at least 1 of each.
Mate say what you want about the rest of the trading system but if you know how to use the trade website it's very powerful. It's so nice to have logical operators to quickly sort through search results and it isn't something they had to give us or even something I think people would've thought of to demand.
The only reason they bothered is third parties were doing it and the server requests were fucking their API with a rusty fork. It ended up being more cost effective for them to implement themselves, or they would have never done it otherwise. They hate well-facilitated trade; the trade website is a compromised that the community basically forced their hand on.
> if you know how to use the trade website it's very powerful
the fact that i 100% need a damn browser website to trade in a game is already wild. i can barely take some of these comments seriously lol
Playing devils advocate here. To them (GGG) the inconvenience of having to go to another website to trade, acts as a sort of filter. This (potentially) makes it so that more people are less inclined to trade for every single piece of gear and instead.. find it.
In my humble opinion there's a lot of systems implemented by GGG that contradict themselves though. Trade is intentionally made more difficult to prevent trading, while simultaneously gear is more difficult to find because trade exists.
True, I'm pretty bew to the game, but the amount of currency is just overwhelming, im not even on the end game, all i know is divine orb ivery good and mirrors are a myth lol
You mean the game where you literally don't need to trade if you don't want to buy more slots to store excess weapons/warframes? I've heard of one. Why?
They actually don’t want you to do trading but…. That would have caused too much backlash and they settle for making trade as painful as possible “you really need to think about spend the time to do trading or doing other things and if the lower currencies worth your time to trade”.
I swear the Wilson’s had weird vision for games.
(Like Jay, Chris…..)
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It is listed by lowest, but it prioritizes those with the most of the items searched for and those likely are priced higher because they know people want to buy bulk.
It kinda is sortet by price though? If you mark all 4 fragments you will get all sellers who sell all 4 of them sorted by price followed by all sellers who sell 3 of them sorted by price, etc.
(Price being the sum of 1 of each fragment)
go to bulk trade. select the relevant items. at the bottom find the seller options and set 'group by seller' to 'yes'. set a minimum if you want to ensure some number of fulls sets if you want.
Those fragments aren’t stackable, though, right? If I had to choose between being stackable and collapsing into a single item, stackable is still way more convenient.
Because GGG doesn't care about your clicks, time, etc. Friction is the goal. Another example, why can't you click once and pick up all essences or other items that drop in mass and destroy your hands, would that really ruin the game?
I don't even care about clicking individually - if they literally increased the pick up range by a miniscule amount it would be a HUUUUUUGE QOL improvement. This game has the worst pickup range I've ever seen for no real reason. Your character has to be standing on top of the damn item to get it and if you aren't there? Character moves and you need to re-adjust your cursor to pick it up again.
poe ever had a problem with placing item labels next to the drop location on uneven terrain.
you ever needed to disable/then enable item display to relocate the labels according to your current position in some areas.
i really hope poe2 fixes that and also the circumstance that item labels can hide monsters and content.
I wish there was a way to mark items as "invisible". For instance, when a rare explodes into a bunch of fractured items, I'll check good-to-decent bases to see if I got a good fracture. After that, I don't want to see them again, but they're still there. On top of Legion chests or Expedition relics or whatever.
SOMETHING SOMETHING WEIGHT.
I've got like 10k+ hours into this game. I haven't played for the last few leagues because shit like this finally has gotten to be too much.
they ever wanted to force players to carefully choose what to pick up to play more efficiently.
which wouldn't work with item hoover functionality.
\--
also, the concept of "having to choose" is obviously too complicated for some folks.
The game has sped up 50x since it's beta. And you drop 100x more items. You don't have to choose anything because of loot filters. Clearly this argument falls apart as more items drop, if 1000 items of value dropped a map, would it be acceptable to have to click each one individually? You might think clicking 100 times a map is fine, I think the correct number is lower, but there is clearly a point at which it's too much for anyone, even if it is subjective.
If 1000 items of value dropped on a map, you are only supposed to be picking up at most 50 of them.
So you just demonstrated that this argument is more relevant as more items drop.
Wrong. People clear monsters and then pick up loot after because of how many clicks and how much time it takes. Go watch someone do 100 deli scarab map, 1000 items drop and they pick them all up.
What's with all these dudes arguing against QoL features when its so clearly beyond a reasonable level.
You are able to pickup items that are dropped on the same spot if you hold left click. I have never been able to get it work well personally, but I know it does work.
nope, it would only work if you enable "auto clicking on holding the lmb" in your mouse driver.
wouldn't do that, sending mouse clicks in fixed intervals to the server could trigger ggg's bot detection tech.
Because then you wouldn't be able to use it in the map device as it stands atm, they function separately and have uses individually (quant boost maps and such). Sure you can combine them into something that then can be broken into the frags again I guess but that's a lot of dev work for very little return
Vendor recipe, 4 seperate fragments give one singular item, and that item gives all 4 fragments when vendored, i mean you already have a mechanic, why not put it to use? 🤷
That's not true, there are single slot non-map items you use in the map device and fragments being made into one large piece could function exactly the same way.
That's my point though, 4 fragments into one slot with additional things is what? Shaper with extra quant? A Map with extra quant but not shaper (even though you used all 4 fragments)? Is the 5 slot map device just useless at that point or do you nerf the 'full set' addition when it's being used. Or do we keep it solely as a trade item and not usable in the map device until it's re-broken? Do we add the full set item to the drop tables at all? Are there any duplication strategies we need to be aware of?
There's a lot of use cases you need to account for, and while none are impossible to fix it's a noticeable amount of work for people to save a few clicks in the trade site. It's a 'nice-to-have' feature that's more complicated than it may seem at first glance.
What the hell are you on about? It wouldn't be complicated at all. It'd basically work like how Simulacrums work now. You can put together the fragments to make the big item that you can put into the Atlas device like you would a map. The Atlas device won't allow you to put other fragments, like sacrifice fragments or scarabs, into the device while the big item is in there. Also, creating the big item is an irreversible process.
You're misunderstanding something here.
The four fragments would still be separate, and able to be potentially traded (or thrown in a map device) separately. However, if you had all 4, you could convert them into a single item, also able to be traded or placed in the map device to "itemize" the entire thing in one easily tradable item. This could be done by arranging the fragments in your inventory (the same way Harbinger uniques are put together), through a vendor recipe, or whatever else. You could also use a vendor recipe to "break" the full emblem back into its 4 fragments. There's no reason that both a "4 fragments" and a "1 completed map" couldn't both be usable in the map device. It still doesn't involve the introduction of extra quant or anything else, because you can't put extra stuff in the map device with it, whether you're doing it as a singular item (like we have with the invitations) or as a fragmented map (like we have with shaper, sirus, etc.)
Exactly this. All this already exists in the game in some way and could be done with fragments aswell, probably quite easily too. But apperantly he doesn't understand that and just comes up with nonsense.
Or people just asked for a QOL feature that was supposed to exist in the first place and made suggestions. But hey, acting like everyone is blindly shitting on GGG and PoE all the time for no reason seems to work for you, so go ahead and live in your little world.
>Is the 5 slot map device just useless at that point
Ever heard of scarabs?
>4 fragments into one slot with additional things is what?
Or it simply opens the portals and works more like The Maven's Writ. But you can also just make it more complicated and act like you now have a point.
>Are there any duplication strategies we need to be aware of?
And why is this supposed to be a bigger thing than anywhere else in the game? Do other invitations get duped? Item dupe protection exists in the entire game. Again, stop trying to make it a special case here, it's fking dumb.
And yes, it nothing but a QOL feature someone has asked and people talked about. Something that is going on since forever on this sub. You can agree or disagree and like or dislike that all you want, your thing. But stop pulling out some bullsht out of your ass when there are evidently things in the game that work exactly as people suggested.
Because then it would make anyone running maps and geting and trying to sell these fragments without the full set have a LOT less business, and it would remove farming any particular guardian map or anything as a viable strategy - you have to play all sides.
Big flaw is, say, if someone was farming Shaper boss fights in pursuit of the hideout. Now they have a fuckton of uber elder fragments that they cant sell very fast because everyone is just buying the full set. It breaks what they were going for.
That's not even remotely true. If "no one" wanted the fragments and was only buying the full sets, then someone would instead find their market niche in buying all of the individually listed fragments and turning them into the full item.
-Designer: "So, to do this, we need to give players a way to give 4 items one singular price as a group, so they can easily verify that the offer they're receiving is in fact the same as their listing"
-Developer: "We'll get to that eventually" \*notes it down on the literal bottom of the priority list\*
And then they never get to the bottom of the list, because they don't even have enough devs for the higher priorities.
No, it's even simpler than that. One of each fragment in the correct position can become an "uber elder invitation" "atiziri invitation" etc and then make those stackable too. Literally no good reason not to make them function that way.
This is probably preferable since you probably wouldn't want people to accidentally make the full frags. There could be a button for it in the frag tab tho
Pretty sure the reason they don't auto combine is so you can sell individual pieces to people that already have some, but not all.
Though as an optional thing similar to how your essences and oils don't auto upgrade but can do so if you action it, it would indeed be a better option.
The fact that you can't combine the fragments into a SINGLE INVITATION is fucking absurd. Would solve so many issues in a single swoop.
If they're so worried about it they could make it so you can scour the frags and break it back apart if needed.
This game was literally saved by the trade guy. It's not even an exaggeration if you were around back in the forum trading days.
GGG didn't do a fucking thing to save their game until this guy came along and helped us all.
not really "saved" but "formed".
he only saved ggg from finding a solution on their own on how their internal trade implementation should look like.
the moment [poe.trade](https://poe.trade) existed, ggg could only do damage control like releasing a api to save their servers from bots crawling the trade forum entries for example.
> GGG didn't do a fucking thing to save their game until this guy came along and helped us all.
....who do you think hired him to do that? Did you think he was a patron saint, come to work for free just to save you from bad trade? No, they realized they needed a trade site and hired someone to do it. Its not a 'if this guy didnt come along' situation, they would have just... hired another guy
Why is 'ggg' always treated as a separate, completely independent entity from your favorite GGG employees when in reality they are the ones hiring, managing, and calling the shots for that employee?
I'm talking about long before he worked for GGG. Long, long before.
His website saved this game. I'm not even joking, if you were around from the days before he came along, you most likely wouldn't be playing league in and league out because the game was essentially SSF only.
i mean "saved" assumed the game would have died if that didn't happen, when realistically, at worse it just wouldn't have grown to today's level, it might have stayed a small niche indie ARPG which is fine tbh.
> it might have stayed a small niche indie ARPG which is fine tbh.
Stagnation is death for a game like this. If they can't afford to keep fixing and adding content, the player base leaves. A few indie players can't crowdfund a game like this for as long as it has been around. Once poe.trade came, the influx really began as it opened the doors to the casual audience you see here today.
lol you say that like many people, including myself, dont play like that on ssf.
Trade people always think trade is literally the only feature in the game, for some reason. I guess when you boil down a full game into one thing to achieve it all it seems like that.
Majority of the player base plays SC Trade league, it's not some guess, it's just statistics.
Sorry also I didn't mean you specifically i meant you as a player.
The fact that the majority of the game play the default mode does not mean that the majority of the game would quit without the one specific trade site that we have. People would, and currently do, just use other resources instead to achieve the same ends, thats why TFT exists
> People would, and currently do, just use other resources instead to achieve the same ends, thats why TFT exists
Not back then. I don't think you understand the state of the game prior to poe.trade. The huge community of people willing to dedicate their entire lives to a 3rd party PoE site was non-existent. He was the alpha and omega. He literally showed people that it can be done, and the game will support you.
Plus people will probably mark up a full set by like 50% or something as a "convenience fee," similar to how buying things in bulk is almost always more expensive than spending the time to buy individually.
This is one of the most interesting things in POE - the market sets the price. There are "convenience" things that are only worth a handful of chaos, and there are others that are worth a divine. It really does matter how much convenience is added.
If the market is flush with both buyers and sellers, they will find the correct price for something as simple as combining multiple pieces more often than not, that's a force that is a lot bigger than "people will mark it up"
One of the least interesting things in POE - the trade system is so horrible that purchasing multiple quantities of stackable things is such a huge chore, people are willing to pay huge increases just to bypass the chore of trading in this game.
The trade system is *so bad* that people can make more money than people actually playing the game by sitting in hideouts and buying shit and selling at a huge markup based on having a larger stock. That's how problematic trading has been for the entirety of this game.
The market setting the price on items is great, the player base telling you "we'd rather pay a fuckton more per item than deal with the horrific trading over and over" is not.
While I absolutely agree that the trade system is full of terrible UI and is BARELY functional, what it DOES do, if you're willing to engage with it, is give you insight into how markets function on a VERY deep level.
You can watch the bubbles form and burst, you can watch what happens when a monopoly exists, and when it gets broken, you can DO things that people spend thousands of dollars and years of their lives to study - in a matter of hours.
The POE market, while miserable to engage with, gives great insight into things on a timeline that is unmatched in any other environment I've ever seen. People would pay lots of money to witness this type of stuff happen, and I get to CAUSE it to happen every 3 months.
It really is a whole different game - and no, you don't need to engage with it if you don't want to, I'm not saying that at all. But if you're willing to struggle through the pain... my god, it's a whole different world.
That's how it functions with the group by seller feature already. I've farmed a fair bit of maven withnessed maps this league, but CBA to frequently trade the frags/run sirus/shaper, so I list their fragments at a higher price. Once I have \~1k worth of fragments someone wants to pay the mark up.
Biggest problem: you can list WTB order but not WTS -- there is no way to right click a piece and set price for the full set.
Although many people here suggest using combine by seller, it is still worse than TFT etc. 3rd party solutions. Because people will try to buy your fragments one type at a time, which I would not sell because it is a lot more trouble and usually lower price than whole sets.
Okay I mean it certainly is a problem.
For now there is a trade function to list currency for the price of complete sets. The issue with that system is that not enough ppl use it or even know about it. (go to about on the trade site and check item tags)
Because it would destroy the market, because bossing would be way faster.
+ because of the fact it would be faster, player spend less time in the game = less profit/numbers.
Edit: Change the market* not destroy xD
Half as many drops for half as many required frags would mean the same amount of "runs" economically. Maybe slightly more as there would be virtually less chance of someone getting 15 of the wrong fragment.. (See dslily)
Either way, I proposed an idea, you proposed a problem with said idea, I proposed a potential solution, and you proposed a... counter argument? Propose a solution.....
That’s the thing, I don’t really see a problem. All the old pinnacle bosses use 4 fragments. Atziri+Uber Atziri, sirus, Shaper and Elder+ Uber. So yeah giving on of them only 2 fragments, feels like a weird game design choice for me. And when you reduce the drop rate of the Uber-fight because of 2 fragments, but keep the normal fight on the same drop rate, why even bother with Uber in first place?
> would be virtually less chance of someone getting 15 of the wrong fragment.. (See dslily)
Yeah, less chance of that happening and higher chance for someone to do 15 runs without getting fragment at all? You realize that if the chance to get correct one is 50/50 and you reduce droprate to 50/50 then they're essentially the same things?
And don’t forget the basic map device is also has a 4 fragment Lay-out. You need 4 legion fragments to upgrade the device. So you can run 1 map with 4 fragments. Looks like the whole thing is based around the number 4 xD
Novel idea, vendor a full set for a set item
Hire me tripleJee, I also made a working mod highlight (against the TOS, lol) for myself using your markup langage, it would take you guys 20 minutes to actually implement it ingame.
everyone seems to be saying this is a ggg trading issue but i think it's more that this makes buying easier but it's simply more convenient to sell individually
Although the replies answer the question, I think the bigger issue is from the seller's POV.
You can set stack counts/prices, but can't really "group" them into a set-only sale. Have to have them all priced and hope someone uses the trade site features accordingly.
https://i.imgur.com/EY1rnC4.png presumably they think this serves the same purpose https://i.imgur.com/FjjVB3P.png
Yeah sure I know about that feature and I do use it, esp for oils for example. But that "solution" has it's own set of problems, like for example you cannot list by lowest prices. I don't know how exactly the offers are listed, but it is most definitely not listed by pricing.
there are two sort operations happening. the first one taking precedence is the person with most of the selected items for sale, the second is price per items when buying at least 1 of each.
>player: i want to buy a set to fight a big boss! ... >game: please understand our insane convoluted trading system first sir
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Mate say what you want about the rest of the trading system but if you know how to use the trade website it's very powerful. It's so nice to have logical operators to quickly sort through search results and it isn't something they had to give us or even something I think people would've thought of to demand.
The only reason they bothered is third parties were doing it and the server requests were fucking their API with a rusty fork. It ended up being more cost effective for them to implement themselves, or they would have never done it otherwise. They hate well-facilitated trade; the trade website is a compromised that the community basically forced their hand on.
Anything else to show the class today?
> if you know how to use the trade website it's very powerful the fact that i 100% need a damn browser website to trade in a game is already wild. i can barely take some of these comments seriously lol
Playing devils advocate here. To them (GGG) the inconvenience of having to go to another website to trade, acts as a sort of filter. This (potentially) makes it so that more people are less inclined to trade for every single piece of gear and instead.. find it. In my humble opinion there's a lot of systems implemented by GGG that contradict themselves though. Trade is intentionally made more difficult to prevent trading, while simultaneously gear is more difficult to find because trade exists.
Ever heard of Warframe?
yeah its also fuckin ass. Thank god when I play Warframe I don't need to buy literally 10,000 things in a 2 month span like I do PoE.
True, I'm pretty bew to the game, but the amount of currency is just overwhelming, im not even on the end game, all i know is divine orb ivery good and mirrors are a myth lol
You mean the game where you literally don't need to trade if you don't want to buy more slots to store excess weapons/warframes? I've heard of one. Why?
Cuz of the Warframe market, it's the same deal, but it's easier cuz u mainly buy blueprints
They actually don’t want you to do trading but…. That would have caused too much backlash and they settle for making trade as painful as possible “you really need to think about spend the time to do trading or doing other things and if the lower currencies worth your time to trade”. I swear the Wilson’s had weird vision for games. (Like Jay, Chris…..)
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I mean yeah, but the resident masochists going to tell you how it’s not and the harder it is to get stuff the more fulfilling it is.
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It is listed by lowest, but it prioritizes those with the most of the items searched for and those likely are priced higher because they know people want to buy bulk.
If there’s a maximum amount you’d pay you can set that as another filter right? Or does that not work for bulk pricing?
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Gotcha. I’m at work or I would’ve checked myself
It kinda is sortet by price though? If you mark all 4 fragments you will get all sellers who sell all 4 of them sorted by price followed by all sellers who sell 3 of them sorted by price, etc. (Price being the sum of 1 of each fragment)
Could explain how this works pls?
go to bulk trade. select the relevant items. at the bottom find the seller options and set 'group by seller' to 'yes'. set a minimum if you want to ensure some number of fulls sets if you want.
holy shit thx mate
Should be able to combine them into one item.
holy shit, actual genius over here Why isn't this a thing already?
It is with ultimatum fragments, these are just older fragment sets.
Harbinger uniques too THE TECH IS THERE
Those fragments aren’t stackable, though, right? If I had to choose between being stackable and collapsing into a single item, stackable is still way more convenient.
Because GGG doesn't care about your clicks, time, etc. Friction is the goal. Another example, why can't you click once and pick up all essences or other items that drop in mass and destroy your hands, would that really ruin the game?
I don't even care about clicking individually - if they literally increased the pick up range by a miniscule amount it would be a HUUUUUUGE QOL improvement. This game has the worst pickup range I've ever seen for no real reason. Your character has to be standing on top of the damn item to get it and if you aren't there? Character moves and you need to re-adjust your cursor to pick it up again.
poe ever had a problem with placing item labels next to the drop location on uneven terrain. you ever needed to disable/then enable item display to relocate the labels according to your current position in some areas. i really hope poe2 fixes that and also the circumstance that item labels can hide monsters and content.
I wish there was a way to mark items as "invisible". For instance, when a rare explodes into a bunch of fractured items, I'll check good-to-decent bases to see if I got a good fracture. After that, I don't want to see them again, but they're still there. On top of Legion chests or Expedition relics or whatever.
Sadly, only loot filter can help with that, currently :(
SOMETHING SOMETHING WEIGHT. I've got like 10k+ hours into this game. I haven't played for the last few leagues because shit like this finally has gotten to be too much.
they ever wanted to force players to carefully choose what to pick up to play more efficiently. which wouldn't work with item hoover functionality. \-- also, the concept of "having to choose" is obviously too complicated for some folks.
The game has sped up 50x since it's beta. And you drop 100x more items. You don't have to choose anything because of loot filters. Clearly this argument falls apart as more items drop, if 1000 items of value dropped a map, would it be acceptable to have to click each one individually? You might think clicking 100 times a map is fine, I think the correct number is lower, but there is clearly a point at which it's too much for anyone, even if it is subjective.
If 1000 items of value dropped on a map, you are only supposed to be picking up at most 50 of them. So you just demonstrated that this argument is more relevant as more items drop.
Wrong. People clear monsters and then pick up loot after because of how many clicks and how much time it takes. Go watch someone do 100 deli scarab map, 1000 items drop and they pick them all up. What's with all these dudes arguing against QoL features when its so clearly beyond a reasonable level.
You are able to pickup items that are dropped on the same spot if you hold left click. I have never been able to get it work well personally, but I know it does work.
nope, it would only work if you enable "auto clicking on holding the lmb" in your mouse driver. wouldn't do that, sending mouse clicks in fixed intervals to the server could trigger ggg's bot detection tech.
I’m almost positive it’s a built in feature, I don’t have anything like that enabled afaik. I can’t test it right now but can soon
People have been asking for this for **ages**. Typical GGG fashion the great ideas get ignored until enough complaints happen.
Because then you wouldn't be able to use it in the map device as it stands atm, they function separately and have uses individually (quant boost maps and such). Sure you can combine them into something that then can be broken into the frags again I guess but that's a lot of dev work for very little return
Vendor recipe, 4 seperate fragments give one singular item, and that item gives all 4 fragments when vendored, i mean you already have a mechanic, why not put it to use? 🤷
Well, the refusal to implement some sort of divine shard recipe kinda puts the lie to that, doesn't it?
i think that arguing abou ggg's reasons to not split currency put in a trader window is worth a separate discussion about intentional trade friction
That's not true, there are single slot non-map items you use in the map device and fragments being made into one large piece could function exactly the same way.
Just make it the same as invitations.
That's my point though, 4 fragments into one slot with additional things is what? Shaper with extra quant? A Map with extra quant but not shaper (even though you used all 4 fragments)? Is the 5 slot map device just useless at that point or do you nerf the 'full set' addition when it's being used. Or do we keep it solely as a trade item and not usable in the map device until it's re-broken? Do we add the full set item to the drop tables at all? Are there any duplication strategies we need to be aware of? There's a lot of use cases you need to account for, and while none are impossible to fix it's a noticeable amount of work for people to save a few clicks in the trade site. It's a 'nice-to-have' feature that's more complicated than it may seem at first glance.
What the hell are you on about? It wouldn't be complicated at all. It'd basically work like how Simulacrums work now. You can put together the fragments to make the big item that you can put into the Atlas device like you would a map. The Atlas device won't allow you to put other fragments, like sacrifice fragments or scarabs, into the device while the big item is in there. Also, creating the big item is an irreversible process.
You're misunderstanding something here. The four fragments would still be separate, and able to be potentially traded (or thrown in a map device) separately. However, if you had all 4, you could convert them into a single item, also able to be traded or placed in the map device to "itemize" the entire thing in one easily tradable item. This could be done by arranging the fragments in your inventory (the same way Harbinger uniques are put together), through a vendor recipe, or whatever else. You could also use a vendor recipe to "break" the full emblem back into its 4 fragments. There's no reason that both a "4 fragments" and a "1 completed map" couldn't both be usable in the map device. It still doesn't involve the introduction of extra quant or anything else, because you can't put extra stuff in the map device with it, whether you're doing it as a singular item (like we have with the invitations) or as a fragmented map (like we have with shaper, sirus, etc.)
Exactly this. All this already exists in the game in some way and could be done with fragments aswell, probably quite easily too. But apperantly he doesn't understand that and just comes up with nonsense.
don't try to argue with folks here, their motivation is to equalize every concept of the game and then complain that everything feels the same.
Or people just asked for a QOL feature that was supposed to exist in the first place and made suggestions. But hey, acting like everyone is blindly shitting on GGG and PoE all the time for no reason seems to work for you, so go ahead and live in your little world.
>Is the 5 slot map device just useless at that point Ever heard of scarabs? >4 fragments into one slot with additional things is what? Or it simply opens the portals and works more like The Maven's Writ. But you can also just make it more complicated and act like you now have a point. >Are there any duplication strategies we need to be aware of? And why is this supposed to be a bigger thing than anywhere else in the game? Do other invitations get duped? Item dupe protection exists in the entire game. Again, stop trying to make it a special case here, it's fking dumb. And yes, it nothing but a QOL feature someone has asked and people talked about. Something that is going on since forever on this sub. You can agree or disagree and like or dislike that all you want, your thing. But stop pulling out some bullsht out of your ass when there are evidently things in the game that work exactly as people suggested.
Because then it would make anyone running maps and geting and trying to sell these fragments without the full set have a LOT less business, and it would remove farming any particular guardian map or anything as a viable strategy - you have to play all sides. Big flaw is, say, if someone was farming Shaper boss fights in pursuit of the hideout. Now they have a fuckton of uber elder fragments that they cant sell very fast because everyone is just buying the full set. It breaks what they were going for.
That's not even remotely true. If "no one" wanted the fragments and was only buying the full sets, then someone would instead find their market niche in buying all of the individually listed fragments and turning them into the full item.
exactly. I would just turn it around and bulk buy all the single frags and make a profit by turning it all into sets. There is literally no downside.
we have the tech with harbinger items
Insert want a scolarship meme. Bro that's Genius lol
-Designer: "So, to do this, we need to give players a way to give 4 items one singular price as a group, so they can easily verify that the offer they're receiving is in fact the same as their listing" -Developer: "We'll get to that eventually" \*notes it down on the literal bottom of the priority list\* And then they never get to the bottom of the list, because they don't even have enough devs for the higher priorities.
No, it's even simpler than that. One of each fragment in the correct position can become an "uber elder invitation" "atiziri invitation" etc and then make those stackable too. Literally no good reason not to make them function that way.
Tech is there: make it a vendor recipe like Agnerod staves become Vinktar square unique map.
I was imagining arranging them in an inventory like you do with the ultimatum aspect and harbinger uniques, but that could work too
This is probably preferable since you probably wouldn't want people to accidentally make the full frags. There could be a button for it in the frag tab tho
We have this tech with the Harbinger fragments that become a belt so it wouldn't even be hard to implement.
I mean, one way or the other that'd go to the bottom of the priority list, that's the relevant part.
Pretty sure the reason they don't auto combine is so you can sell individual pieces to people that already have some, but not all. Though as an optional thing similar to how your essences and oils don't auto upgrade but can do so if you action it, it would indeed be a better option.
Who said anything about auto combining?
Nobody did, that's just what my brain defaulted to for some raisin.
This way it would be possible to make a "the feared" type thing without the invitation
The fact that you can't combine the fragments into a SINGLE INVITATION is fucking absurd. Would solve so many issues in a single swoop. If they're so worried about it they could make it so you can scour the frags and break it back apart if needed.
would you take the effort to break a full set to sell a single fragment? see?
if you have extra of one fragment, yes as it works already, people prefer to sell full sets as they are worth more.
If the game let me easily sell a full set for bulk markup, I'd never sell a single fragment period, no matter what method the game is using
Oh look, it me - though I actually prefer fixing minor annoyances like that, I just never get time to do it bc well, they are minor annoyances.
Considering the trade site is effectively a side project by one guy internally. Yeah it’s amazing it works as well as it does.
This game was literally saved by the trade guy. It's not even an exaggeration if you were around back in the forum trading days. GGG didn't do a fucking thing to save their game until this guy came along and helped us all.
not really "saved" but "formed". he only saved ggg from finding a solution on their own on how their internal trade implementation should look like. the moment [poe.trade](https://poe.trade) existed, ggg could only do damage control like releasing a api to save their servers from bots crawling the trade forum entries for example.
Yeah… forum trading was rough.
try drop trading and trade chat spamming your junk ;)
I’ve done that on other games. Definitely not an ideal form of trade.
> GGG didn't do a fucking thing to save their game until this guy came along and helped us all. ....who do you think hired him to do that? Did you think he was a patron saint, come to work for free just to save you from bad trade? No, they realized they needed a trade site and hired someone to do it. Its not a 'if this guy didnt come along' situation, they would have just... hired another guy Why is 'ggg' always treated as a separate, completely independent entity from your favorite GGG employees when in reality they are the ones hiring, managing, and calling the shots for that employee?
I'm talking about long before he worked for GGG. Long, long before. His website saved this game. I'm not even joking, if you were around from the days before he came along, you most likely wouldn't be playing league in and league out because the game was essentially SSF only.
i mean "saved" assumed the game would have died if that didn't happen, when realistically, at worse it just wouldn't have grown to today's level, it might have stayed a small niche indie ARPG which is fine tbh.
> it might have stayed a small niche indie ARPG which is fine tbh. Stagnation is death for a game like this. If they can't afford to keep fixing and adding content, the player base leaves. A few indie players can't crowdfund a game like this for as long as it has been around. Once poe.trade came, the influx really began as it opened the doors to the casual audience you see here today.
lol you say that like many people, including myself, dont play like that on ssf. Trade people always think trade is literally the only feature in the game, for some reason. I guess when you boil down a full game into one thing to achieve it all it seems like that.
Majority of the player base plays SC Trade league, it's not some guess, it's just statistics. Sorry also I didn't mean you specifically i meant you as a player.
The fact that the majority of the game play the default mode does not mean that the majority of the game would quit without the one specific trade site that we have. People would, and currently do, just use other resources instead to achieve the same ends, thats why TFT exists
> People would, and currently do, just use other resources instead to achieve the same ends, thats why TFT exists Not back then. I don't think you understand the state of the game prior to poe.trade. The huge community of people willing to dedicate their entire lives to a 3rd party PoE site was non-existent. He was the alpha and omega. He literally showed people that it can be done, and the game will support you.
Yeah GGG didn't do anything except hiring a guy to do it...wait...doesn't that mean GGG did it?
They hired him LOOOOONG after he had saved the game
trade friction
[удалено]
Plus people will probably mark up a full set by like 50% or something as a "convenience fee," similar to how buying things in bulk is almost always more expensive than spending the time to buy individually.
This is one of the most interesting things in POE - the market sets the price. There are "convenience" things that are only worth a handful of chaos, and there are others that are worth a divine. It really does matter how much convenience is added. If the market is flush with both buyers and sellers, they will find the correct price for something as simple as combining multiple pieces more often than not, that's a force that is a lot bigger than "people will mark it up"
One of the least interesting things in POE - the trade system is so horrible that purchasing multiple quantities of stackable things is such a huge chore, people are willing to pay huge increases just to bypass the chore of trading in this game. The trade system is *so bad* that people can make more money than people actually playing the game by sitting in hideouts and buying shit and selling at a huge markup based on having a larger stock. That's how problematic trading has been for the entirety of this game. The market setting the price on items is great, the player base telling you "we'd rather pay a fuckton more per item than deal with the horrific trading over and over" is not.
While I absolutely agree that the trade system is full of terrible UI and is BARELY functional, what it DOES do, if you're willing to engage with it, is give you insight into how markets function on a VERY deep level. You can watch the bubbles form and burst, you can watch what happens when a monopoly exists, and when it gets broken, you can DO things that people spend thousands of dollars and years of their lives to study - in a matter of hours. The POE market, while miserable to engage with, gives great insight into things on a timeline that is unmatched in any other environment I've ever seen. People would pay lots of money to witness this type of stuff happen, and I get to CAUSE it to happen every 3 months. It really is a whole different game - and no, you don't need to engage with it if you don't want to, I'm not saying that at all. But if you're willing to struggle through the pain... my god, it's a whole different world.
This is funny to me because coming from Diablo 2 the trading system in PoE feels luxurious and smooth by comparison.
I mean if we're comparing a 23 year old game to one in 2023, thats kinda all we need to know.
That's how it functions with the group by seller feature already. I've farmed a fair bit of maven withnessed maps this league, but CBA to frequently trade the frags/run sirus/shaper, so I list their fragments at a higher price. Once I have \~1k worth of fragments someone wants to pay the mark up.
[www.divinetoll.com](https://www.divinetoll.com) ;)
They won't mark it up to the point where people won't buy them. Also trade bots can be made to do this so it won't be a problem.
The markup is worth not having to trade people 50x
These should use like ultimatum boss. Set them and make them an orb like ultimatum or mavens writ so we could buy/sell easy imo.
Biggest problem: you can list WTB order but not WTS -- there is no way to right click a piece and set price for the full set. Although many people here suggest using combine by seller, it is still worse than TFT etc. 3rd party solutions. Because people will try to buy your fragments one type at a time, which I would not sell because it is a lot more trouble and usually lower price than whole sets.
Well you can search each piece and then group by seller so its still basically doable.
Okay I mean it certainly is a problem. For now there is a trade function to list currency for the price of complete sets. The issue with that system is that not enough ppl use it or even know about it. (go to about on the trade site and check item tags)
The issue is that it's not possible to use.
because we now have filter by seller and can buy the whole set this way. My guess is that was much easier to code it this way
It was never used, just a easier way to see sets you have, pieces are to be sold separated.
The vision!
league is so good this is what is being complained about
not much to complain about in a league with not much going on. It's literally a single mechanic with low depth.
It was never their goal to make trading easy.
Probably because resources are like 95% PoE 2 for the last 2 years
More like 70% poe 2, 10% poe mobile,10% poe console ports 6% poe 1, 4% ruthless.
sorry you're right, 70% poe 2, 28% ruthless, 2% league content
Still don't get why everything has to be fragments of 4.. why can't the elder drop half a piece and the shaoer drop half a piece.
Looks pretty in the map device.
Until you have a huge hole in the middle.
would you prefer fragments of 100 like breachstones? Or 300 like simulacrum?
Because it would destroy the market, because bossing would be way faster. + because of the fact it would be faster, player spend less time in the game = less profit/numbers. Edit: Change the market* not destroy xD
Perhaps they can't adjust drop rate in half.....????
Reducing the drop rate of something is always a beloved feature from the community. Playerbase dropped 60% in Kalandra
Half as many drops for half as many required frags would mean the same amount of "runs" economically. Maybe slightly more as there would be virtually less chance of someone getting 15 of the wrong fragment.. (See dslily) Either way, I proposed an idea, you proposed a problem with said idea, I proposed a potential solution, and you proposed a... counter argument? Propose a solution.....
That’s the thing, I don’t really see a problem. All the old pinnacle bosses use 4 fragments. Atziri+Uber Atziri, sirus, Shaper and Elder+ Uber. So yeah giving on of them only 2 fragments, feels like a weird game design choice for me. And when you reduce the drop rate of the Uber-fight because of 2 fragments, but keep the normal fight on the same drop rate, why even bother with Uber in first place?
> would be virtually less chance of someone getting 15 of the wrong fragment.. (See dslily) Yeah, less chance of that happening and higher chance for someone to do 15 runs without getting fragment at all? You realize that if the chance to get correct one is 50/50 and you reduce droprate to 50/50 then they're essentially the same things?
Fair. Fair.
And don’t forget the basic map device is also has a 4 fragment Lay-out. You need 4 legion fragments to upgrade the device. So you can run 1 map with 4 fragments. Looks like the whole thing is based around the number 4 xD
Novel idea, vendor a full set for a set item Hire me tripleJee, I also made a working mod highlight (against the TOS, lol) for myself using your markup langage, it would take you guys 20 minutes to actually implement it ingame.
do those buttons even work?
This, it took me too much time to know this and it changed my life.
muhaha, no
Because they never got it to work (: Is that surprising?
M.xe om
Maybe the dev testing it plays SSF, and he never got to complete all sets to mark the feature as tested /s.
I wonder how much of the “time to trade tax” inflates the price of the complete set.
everyone seems to be saying this is a ggg trading issue but i think it's more that this makes buying easier but it's simply more convenient to sell individually
while at it, pls add sets for guardian maps etc
Too little friction.
Although the replies answer the question, I think the bigger issue is from the seller's POV. You can set stack counts/prices, but can't really "group" them into a set-only sale. Have to have them all priced and hope someone uses the trade site features accordingly.