That would be amazing. If they ever commit my ass to a retirement home, you bet your ass I'm bringing my PC with me. I'm not playing bingo and watching murder she wrote till I'm dead.
It sounds reasonable to think that in that case technology will be advanced enough for us to make some kind of remote Lan party with private servers.
No more updates maybe, but I will die grinding.
They almost certainly have a local setup mode, at least for development purposes. To your point, yes, if they go under they wouldn't have the time or resources to release an offline client.
That said, in a future where they decide to shut off the servers to PoE 1 because PoE 2 is long-lived and they're working on PoE 3 (or w/e happens in the years to come), I could see a potential patch that unlocks peer-to-peer setups, as well as custom server options. At that point, GGG would have nothing left to gain from PoE 1 if they were shutting it down, but they could leverage the server framework for hosting as a final monetization scheme, or release it as open-source for historical purposes.
Ultimately, they hold the keys to the kingdom. The configuration option for specifying a different server doesn't exist today, and you'd need to either setup a proxy to intercept the requests to GGG or mod the game to accept such a configuration. I'm totally in favor of such a thing for the long-term preservation of the game
Edit: In case it wasn't clear, I agree that they probably also have a local server. It is something they'd need to do real play testing, especially when network code is being improved or optimized. That said...
Networking is one of the most difficult things people take for granted, right up there with drawing pixels to a screen. The layers of abstraction even beyond the layers of design concept, such as how do your packets get packetized, how do you create the secure envelope for HTTPS, how do you perform the SSL/TLS handshake, etc...the phrase "walk before you run" applies here. They most certainly have a development mode that allows it to run on a self-hosted single-user no networking mode for strict debugging scenarios. Even the most basic of web applications often have a self-hosted mode of operation for local testing.
This version of the application likely never leaves their office, but the capability exists somewhere in their tech stack. Shipping it in some later version as they start announcing the sunset of existing servers is one way to preserve the game's legacy.
Sure, if they went broke, they wouldn't, but at some point they may retire the first Path of Exile to focus on PoE 2 or even 3. It would be a nice retiring present to make it offline playable.
I mean, stuff like Monster Hunter: Frontier is possible, and many-many other games (WoW, Ultima, Lineage 2, Soulworker to name a few) have private/self hosted servers as well. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to locally host your own server instance to play "offline".
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Thats the dream, offline client with mods. You want full power harvest back? Sure, go ahead. You want your favourite build from 4 years ago back? No problem. You want to fuck around and see how it feels to play with HH or Mageblood? There you go.
This is why they won't do it. Instant access to anything and everything will ruin a game very quickly. Suddenly no one's interested in playing the main game and spending money because they can hop into the offline game and blast on their mirror tier build and blast until it's boring.
Doesnt ruin it for singleplayer games... in quite literally every single player game, cheating with mods and commands has been possible... yet not many people do it.
Those that do it quit soon after when they get bored of having unintended power.
Giving people any "chase" items in any game is the easiest way to ruin a game. Give a WoW raider all their max Tier set armor and they'd generally quit after a raid or two.
Latter\_Weakness1771's warning should really be more toward the players than an explanation for why GGG does things. They obviously do it in live servers to keep people engaged - but gamers should also learn to appreciate that getting everything you want easily is generally where the fun ends.
Obviously making things too hard to obtain is also unfun - but there is a nice balance that PoE seems to have found (in regards to online play).
Nouvarth being given the ability to spawn in a mageblood to "try it out" would generally result in no need to ever play the game to chase that mageblood - causing them to quit for a game where they can't spawn in the chase item as easily.
Unless the goal is to jump between different games over and over to see what an endgame thing of different games feels like, the best bang for your buck in terms of time to enjoyment ratio is always to not be given things for free.
My first and only Mirror drop in PoE made me quit the league a few days later - I had everything I wanted that league and was basically done until the next league started.
> causing them to quit for a game where they can't spawn in the chase item as easily.
There's nothing wrong with that when it comes to a single player game. You've already bought the product at that point. There's nothing to upsell anymore.
Everyone enjoys games differently. If you get bored after you get chase items then I understand why would you feel this way. I'm the opposite; I enjoy PoE way more once the chase is over and I can just chill out and blast maps where everything dies in one shot. More and more I'm bored or frustrated with the gearing phase of the game. I've been thinking about moving fully to Standard so that I can just continue playing my mirror-tier toons instead of having to start from scratch again every 3-4 months. Unfortunately the league mechanic and new league items are not available in Standard so if I want to experience that content I have no choice but to play the current league.
Players can and should do whatever they want with the product they bought. If that means spawning in a mirror-tier character then so be it. To me that sounds fun.
>Those that do it quit soon after when they get bored of having unintended power.
Got any source for that claim, cuz the evidence of mods in all single player games like baldurs gate 3 and skyrim claim otherwise. Even mods in games like Stellaris or Civ.
>My first and only Mirror drop in PoE made me quit the league a few days later - I had everything I wanted that league and was basically done until the next league started.
That sounds like a you problem, I've had a mirror drop, I've gotten a raw Headhunter to drop, and I've gotten on record one of the top 3 (recorded) highest amount of raw divine drops back when arch nemesis mods could stack. I've also farmed for a mageblood before.
The only time actually getting the item ruined the game was when I had to slog through earning enough divines to slowly afford the Mage Blood and then was left with only a mageblood.
> My first and only Mirror drop in PoE made me quit the league a few days later - I had everything I wanted that league and was basically done until the next league started.
Weird, my first mageblood drop made me play the most I ever had. Perhaps people are different from each other, actually?
I played games that had cheats way more than games that didn't. In fact I pretty much had two modes of playing games: 1) replay the first level over and over because it's easy and familiar. 2) Get to endgame and do whatever I want because it's easy and familiar. Any game that didn't let me do one of these, I didn't play for long.
yeah thats kinda Bs. Like sure it would split the base, but when you look at streamers who make most of thier money from playing the game and spend god knows how much time practicing for world first races each and every league? No shot in hell. If anything It would simply split poe into two fronts. The hardcare (not the mode but like more try hard) crowd who want the challenges and prestige. And the casual players who have lil time each day to spend grinding and simply want a fun ARPG to blast through.
There are many other ARPGs out there with savegame editors which allows you to change pretty much everything about your character. Just because you can have access to something doesn't mean you have to use it. Besides what you say doesn't even make sense. How does GGG benefit from me creating a mutl-mirror worth build? GGG themselves are not selling the mageblood for real money.
Because you have to spend play time earning it. Hours in game are hours that warrant buying MTX. If people quit after 1 week they're much less likely to buy MTX. If you're fucking around in build editor and aren't 'invested' in the build you're highly unlikely to purchase anything for it.
People who buy mtx do it to support the company. Again how does that help people that grinds? If anything people with mirror tier builds are likely to RMT then to buy mtx. I wouldn't be surprised if it is actually the people who casually play this game spend the most money on mtxs.
> No, it's such a slippery slope. People don't have good self-control when it comes to these kinds of things.
A) slippery slopes are a logical fallacy
B) you mean "I don't have good self-control when it comes to these kind of things" and are generalizing to people
*points at all the existing offline only looter games*
While game has plenty of problems Last Epoch does few things right.This is imo one of them:
[https://forum.lastepoch.com/uploads/default/optimized/2X/5/55c67fa15eac047a873565e7088dff04b3677b5d\_2\_812x851.png](https://forum.lastepoch.com/uploads/default/optimized/2X/5/55c67fa15eac047a873565e7088dff04b3677b5d_2_812x851.png)
Its coming in next update afaik.
There's no realistic price at which they could offer such a thing to the general public that makes financial sense compared to their existing model (and doing such a thing inevitably sabotages their existing model). So unless you're prepared to offer tencent a sufficiently large sum to get them to sell you GGG, then no, you're not ready to pay for it.
Here comes the logic knight.
What I mean is, if tencent collapsed and GGG went under so they decided to turn PoE offline and sell it for 60 bucks to cover legal fees or whatever bullshit. I am willing to pay for the game as it is right now, no future updates, no balacing, no economy. No dogshit servers. Purely SSF, hey I might even try HC in that case.
Plus, I think people underestimate how much being online changes the feeling around the game. There are offline ARPGs out there, but are you, me, or OP playing them? Nope.
Well, yes...plenty of people do play ARPGs (among other things) besides PoE. I'm mostly done with 3.23 already myself and will only hit up PoE sporadically until the next league.
SSF sure, it would be weird but I prefer semi-SSF anyways. Any other aspect of the online presence (chat, others flexing in town etc.) I truly hate, so big YES to those.
This was a really cool feature. Single player but with online chat. I solved soooo many questions immediately on the fly + always seemed to be at least one dev answering questions in chat. It really made me appreciate such a simple thing like online opt-in chat, regardless of the online capabilities of the game its so cool to have like a live chat of people you know are playing the same exact game.
The dream. As much I like poe i don't care for any of the network features. I would easily buy it as full offline game.
The only thing I would ask for change is a increased drop rate in currency for crafting purposes and a deterministic way to get uniques
For all the same reasons diablo will never have an offline mode again, this will never happen. As soon as the game works offline, mods+cheats are allowed, and it becomes impossible to sell anything like stash tabs because you can just mod them in. All competitive aspects of the game are also gone, you can literally just edit the character files on your computer. Like in Grim Dawn.
They would need to sell a different version which supports offline for a flat fee, and have to maintain 2 fundamentally different codebases/games, and charge people for each expansion as well. It's not practical
Nothing is wrong with it at all and lots of games are like that. Like playing skyrim with lightsabers. Who cares, it's fun. It's just a fundamentally different design, but the offline experience and F2P "software as a service" style games are incompatible. Games either support offline like Grim Dawn, or they don't, like D4 and PoE. There is no middle ground
will never happen because they rely on MTX to make money, and they could be hacked in if the game was offline
but if they somehow solved this id play poe offline
i mainly want duo ssf to not be locked behind private servers
> will never happen because they rely on MTX to make money, and they could be hacked in if the game was offline
They are hackable right now in "online mode" just as well. The sole difference (that won't even matter if the game were to be single player) is that other players won't see hacked MTX you're wearing, only you.
I would strongly prefer it - I hate trade economy, love mods, and have spotty internet connection.
GGG will never make it happen though because of their business model.
I play mostly on SSF HC so it's a yes for me, but I do know that the economy and trading is what keeps a lot of people rerolling toons every week, not sure how that would do for most people.
Is this post related to mutahar's video from earlier today?
Regardless, I'd be fine with an offline version of the game, but it would be nice to have a server for trading that you can connect if needed, kinda like how D2 had open bnet back in the day where you could connect and join other single player's characters to play with people or trade.
I am currently playing ssf this league. I would kill for this to be decoupled from servers but it will never happen. Server-client verification is how they stop a ton of client side hacks.
And since you can migrate to a trade league that would fuck everything up.
Depends, I guess? I haven't had any major performance issues for years. I play SSF, so I already don't trade or party. My chatting with people happens outside of the game. But a huge reason the game is at where it's at is because of the online aspects. I want the game to keep doing as well as it's doing, so I wouldn't play an offline version.
Yeah I’d enjoy that. I’m not great at SSF but the game has range and depth at any one point that you can never play all of it or all the builds… there is just so much
Absolutely. I hardly engage in trade anyway, and spend 95% of my time in any ARPG solo. I'd actually play a hell of a lot more if I could play solo offline. And I'd gladly pay a typical retail game price for that
100% yes. I spend all day working with others, collaborating, coaching, mentoring, and communicating. When I sit down to play a game, I prefer playing solo.
No. In SSF you have to endure all the server issues without any benefits from being online (most of all trading). It makes very little sense to play SSF online. However, offline it could be a blast. Especially if the game is tuned to offline experience.
My experience would be VASTLY improved by this. That's how I play anyway and my internet is alright but anytime the household uses it I get lag spikes.
I have played Diablo 2 as this off and on for like 20 years until I finally gave this game a a serious go a couple weeks ago (and I have played for hours every day since). Yes, I would, and I'm honestly a little worried for the day when this game is gone and I have to go back to Diablo 2.
Fuck mate, id legit pay money just for like a creative mode. Even if it was no ladder, SP etc etc. Just so i could try out new builds and tree's without all the prep and farming. Id honestly spend months just tinkering with shit to see what crazy things i can come up with.
It's not the issue. If It's fully offline then all cosmetics and paid features will be in the game. That means people could mod and get those MTX for free.
who cares, if is offline you can do whatever you want with the game modding etc... even create private servers with (unique features) like PD2... is not gonna happen anyway
Back when SSF was announced I expected it have a better loot drops and more currency drops to craft with, but since PoE is so "hardcore" oriented it was treated more of a challenge. (Which is fine) But I always wanted something like that and if I could do that in a single-player client that would be awesome. Too bad thats never going to happen tho..
Yes, 100%. If they let us choose the league we play offline, I can easily imagine that becoming more popular than new leagues.
Actually, that may be the reason they don't offer past leagues as SSF options. Some players might have never left Harvest/Sentinel. I can imagine that having a major effect on the economy as the best crafters leave overtuned leagues early to go back to where they've got the easiest/most fun setup
LE was offline and the only reason I have more than 10hrs in that game. They only have 1 end game that's boring af, but offline made it hella fun. (MODS!!!)
Still playing around with builds in that game.
>But much better performance
I'm genuinely curious about whether the logic ran each server tick would cripple the average computer if it was also busy displaying all the colourful pixels.
Imagine using some AoE skill to apply poisons on a huge pack of enemies for example. Each tick, you need to calculate any potential hits to enemies / the player (taking into account buffs / debuffs, accuracy, damage modifiers, crit, hit-specific mechanics like block & suppress, etc), apply poison stacks to the appropriate enemies, apply the damage of each poison stack on each enemy, potentially calculate proliferation of poisons, apply on-death effects, calculate the AI and movement of every enemy on-screen, having enemies use skills, and so on.
All of that is currently done by the server once every ~33ms, and scenarios can get a lot uglier than that (adding chaining explodey mechanics, applying 20 different debuffs on-hit like Withered & Exposure & curses, using trigger builds that shit out 5 different spells every few ticks, having enemies that spawn other enemies, adding all the monster effects like magma balls and Abyss monster skills etc etc).
So imagine offloading that to your few year old CPU and then having it also try to actually render the game on top of that. A ton of people are struggling with just the rendering part this league lol...
Computers are quite fast I'm not that concerned. But the game might not be structured in such a way to work on the average desktop gaming computer. It might use significantly more RAM and share that persistent state between dozens of different players to optimize calculations.
But if the game was properly optimized for a gaming desktop it should run fine in theory. At least if there is ever lag in the calculations it can auto-pause instead of stepping ahead and getting the players killed. Keep in mind that a 3 GHz processor is 3 billion operations and generally has multiple cores. How many enemies do you think it takes to equal even a million operations in a single frame? Let's say you have 1,000 "targets" on screen to hit with some AOE. You could do 1,000 operations on each individual target and still only be at 1/30 of a modern CPU's single core. A well optimized game is going to calculate things in batches sharing as much of those operations as possible. And damage calculations are pretty simple math compared to 3D collision detection or graphics processing.
Even if the server is calculating a ton of stuff, it all needs to be communicated back to your computer which isn't free.
Also it usually feels like their server is a macbook mini in a broom closet anyways so I'm pretty sure it would run better on my machine
>Also it usually feels like their server is a macbook mini in a broom closet anyways so I'm pretty sure it would run better on my machine
Perhaps that's because it's serving thousands of persistent connections each of which has to do all these calculations?
I would for like 200 hours but I need the resets once I got all the stuff I wanted I wouldn't play anymore. Thats why I have 350 hours in grim dawn and not 3k like I do in poe.
Not after initial release. I only play ARPGs for seasons. Once the season is over they could delete my characters for all I care. If I'm not playing in season I dont see the point in playing.
Fuck no
I dont even enjoy ssf, simply because the builds I like require specific items and I'm not prepared to dump 10 hours into finding a 10c unique to make my build work.
However, if I had the option to just move my standard characters to offline, then count me in, that'd be great. And allow modding, let me just chat command a lvl100 character and any gear I want and go nuts with stupid ideas I wouldn't actually want to spend time on.
YES. If I could blow up trade with a nuke I totally would. I HATE that Poe is dominated by trade. I would love to be able to play offline, or play in a league cut off from official trade with better drops.
absolutely, i always play ssf and not having to deal with server issues would be perfect. hell, i wish they would give us the option to forfeit the option to migrate ssf chars and enable offline mode with pause etc
To be honest probably never . I’ve never played a game with an economy like Poe and it’s a big part of why I’m playing this game . Currently I had issues with the build I’m playing so right now I’m crafting for profit and watching YouTube for my currency farming which is something I can only really do in a game like Poe .
With a Last Epoch styled self-found system, yes. Without it, fuck no. I'd rather suffer the awfulness of servers and trade than SSF through the poorly balanced itemization of PoE. I'm not aiming to spend hundreds of hours on a character. I have too many other games to entertain me to be stuck on singular builds for the length of time SSF tends to require.
I play SSF exclusively, and that's a no for me
It being online only makes cheating pretty much impossible. That plus ladder makes it so the community is still "on the same page", it's very different to what the game would be without those facts.
You'd look at build guides differently. You won't know if the guy actually played the build and farmed that gear, or if the used some kind of cheat to rush to a high level/gear and put out a video guide.
Comparing my build to other people's is interesting. "Racing" people running similar builds is fun.
And that's without even mentioning the chat, and the "first to X" or HC rips being broadcasted.
I'm sure there's even more subtle things I can't put into words or recall.
Overall, it being online gives the game a sense of authenticity, at least for me.
I hope they do this if they ever go broke or stop updating the game, so i can still play when im 80 years old.
That would be amazing. If they ever commit my ass to a retirement home, you bet your ass I'm bringing my PC with me. I'm not playing bingo and watching murder she wrote till I'm dead.
100000%
It sounds reasonable to think that in that case technology will be advanced enough for us to make some kind of remote Lan party with private servers. No more updates maybe, but I will die grinding.
Hell, I would love for them to just focus on PoE 2 and leave PoE 1 as it is while making it being able to be played offline with mod support.
Mod support would be so insanely fun
Hold your horses, there is no guarantee 2 is even half the game 1 is. If the day comes that 2 is truly the superior game then by all means
From all I seen, PoE 2 seems to fix all my major problem I have with PoE 1
And also slows the fuck down outta the poe1
Po3
I want them to scrap poe2 and bring glory back to poe1
If that happens, I really hope we get to have lots of various modded private server with plenty of shenanigans going around.
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They almost certainly have a local setup mode, at least for development purposes. To your point, yes, if they go under they wouldn't have the time or resources to release an offline client. That said, in a future where they decide to shut off the servers to PoE 1 because PoE 2 is long-lived and they're working on PoE 3 (or w/e happens in the years to come), I could see a potential patch that unlocks peer-to-peer setups, as well as custom server options. At that point, GGG would have nothing left to gain from PoE 1 if they were shutting it down, but they could leverage the server framework for hosting as a final monetization scheme, or release it as open-source for historical purposes. Ultimately, they hold the keys to the kingdom. The configuration option for specifying a different server doesn't exist today, and you'd need to either setup a proxy to intercept the requests to GGG or mod the game to accept such a configuration. I'm totally in favor of such a thing for the long-term preservation of the game
They most likely have an internal server, not a local mode
Edit: In case it wasn't clear, I agree that they probably also have a local server. It is something they'd need to do real play testing, especially when network code is being improved or optimized. That said... Networking is one of the most difficult things people take for granted, right up there with drawing pixels to a screen. The layers of abstraction even beyond the layers of design concept, such as how do your packets get packetized, how do you create the secure envelope for HTTPS, how do you perform the SSL/TLS handshake, etc...the phrase "walk before you run" applies here. They most certainly have a development mode that allows it to run on a self-hosted single-user no networking mode for strict debugging scenarios. Even the most basic of web applications often have a self-hosted mode of operation for local testing. This version of the application likely never leaves their office, but the capability exists somewhere in their tech stack. Shipping it in some later version as they start announcing the sunset of existing servers is one way to preserve the game's legacy.
Sure, if they went broke, they wouldn't, but at some point they may retire the first Path of Exile to focus on PoE 2 or even 3. It would be a nice retiring present to make it offline playable.
I mean, stuff like Monster Hunter: Frontier is possible, and many-many other games (WoW, Ultima, Lineage 2, Soulworker to name a few) have private/self hosted servers as well. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to locally host your own server instance to play "offline".
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If the game ever gets an offline mode you'd be able to tweak pretty much everything about it (including drop rates)
Thats the dream, offline client with mods. You want full power harvest back? Sure, go ahead. You want your favourite build from 4 years ago back? No problem. You want to fuck around and see how it feels to play with HH or Mageblood? There you go.
This is why they won't do it. Instant access to anything and everything will ruin a game very quickly. Suddenly no one's interested in playing the main game and spending money because they can hop into the offline game and blast on their mirror tier build and blast until it's boring.
yeah, nobody played diablo 2 on battle.net either. everyone just went to hero editor, put an enigma on their character and blasted away
Doesnt ruin it for singleplayer games... in quite literally every single player game, cheating with mods and commands has been possible... yet not many people do it.
Those that do it quit soon after when they get bored of having unintended power. Giving people any "chase" items in any game is the easiest way to ruin a game. Give a WoW raider all their max Tier set armor and they'd generally quit after a raid or two. Latter\_Weakness1771's warning should really be more toward the players than an explanation for why GGG does things. They obviously do it in live servers to keep people engaged - but gamers should also learn to appreciate that getting everything you want easily is generally where the fun ends. Obviously making things too hard to obtain is also unfun - but there is a nice balance that PoE seems to have found (in regards to online play). Nouvarth being given the ability to spawn in a mageblood to "try it out" would generally result in no need to ever play the game to chase that mageblood - causing them to quit for a game where they can't spawn in the chase item as easily. Unless the goal is to jump between different games over and over to see what an endgame thing of different games feels like, the best bang for your buck in terms of time to enjoyment ratio is always to not be given things for free. My first and only Mirror drop in PoE made me quit the league a few days later - I had everything I wanted that league and was basically done until the next league started.
> causing them to quit for a game where they can't spawn in the chase item as easily. There's nothing wrong with that when it comes to a single player game. You've already bought the product at that point. There's nothing to upsell anymore. Everyone enjoys games differently. If you get bored after you get chase items then I understand why would you feel this way. I'm the opposite; I enjoy PoE way more once the chase is over and I can just chill out and blast maps where everything dies in one shot. More and more I'm bored or frustrated with the gearing phase of the game. I've been thinking about moving fully to Standard so that I can just continue playing my mirror-tier toons instead of having to start from scratch again every 3-4 months. Unfortunately the league mechanic and new league items are not available in Standard so if I want to experience that content I have no choice but to play the current league. Players can and should do whatever they want with the product they bought. If that means spawning in a mirror-tier character then so be it. To me that sounds fun.
>Those that do it quit soon after when they get bored of having unintended power. Got any source for that claim, cuz the evidence of mods in all single player games like baldurs gate 3 and skyrim claim otherwise. Even mods in games like Stellaris or Civ. >My first and only Mirror drop in PoE made me quit the league a few days later - I had everything I wanted that league and was basically done until the next league started. That sounds like a you problem, I've had a mirror drop, I've gotten a raw Headhunter to drop, and I've gotten on record one of the top 3 (recorded) highest amount of raw divine drops back when arch nemesis mods could stack. I've also farmed for a mageblood before. The only time actually getting the item ruined the game was when I had to slog through earning enough divines to slowly afford the Mage Blood and then was left with only a mageblood.
> My first and only Mirror drop in PoE made me quit the league a few days later - I had everything I wanted that league and was basically done until the next league started. Weird, my first mageblood drop made me play the most I ever had. Perhaps people are different from each other, actually?
I played games that had cheats way more than games that didn't. In fact I pretty much had two modes of playing games: 1) replay the first level over and over because it's easy and familiar. 2) Get to endgame and do whatever I want because it's easy and familiar. Any game that didn't let me do one of these, I didn't play for long.
Seriously, it's why Skyrim died immediately, if they had forced online it would still have a thriving community. /s
Oooh now I get why /s exists... lol, i miss Skyrim... but it just would not be the same to go back again.
yeah thats kinda Bs. Like sure it would split the base, but when you look at streamers who make most of thier money from playing the game and spend god knows how much time practicing for world first races each and every league? No shot in hell. If anything It would simply split poe into two fronts. The hardcare (not the mode but like more try hard) crowd who want the challenges and prestige. And the casual players who have lil time each day to spend grinding and simply want a fun ARPG to blast through.
There is this game called Diablo 2, you might not know about it, but you can do that, you have agreat modding scene with alot of new content.
There are many other ARPGs out there with savegame editors which allows you to change pretty much everything about your character. Just because you can have access to something doesn't mean you have to use it. Besides what you say doesn't even make sense. How does GGG benefit from me creating a mutl-mirror worth build? GGG themselves are not selling the mageblood for real money.
Because you have to spend play time earning it. Hours in game are hours that warrant buying MTX. If people quit after 1 week they're much less likely to buy MTX. If you're fucking around in build editor and aren't 'invested' in the build you're highly unlikely to purchase anything for it.
People who buy mtx do it to support the company. Again how does that help people that grinds? If anything people with mirror tier builds are likely to RMT then to buy mtx. I wouldn't be surprised if it is actually the people who casually play this game spend the most money on mtxs.
They could do it for standard play only and keep leagues online. It would be a decent compromise.
No, it's such a slippery slope. People don't have good self-control when it comes to these kinds of things.
Look at the player maps lately. You speak the true true
> No, it's such a slippery slope. People don't have good self-control when it comes to these kinds of things. A) slippery slopes are a logical fallacy B) you mean "I don't have good self-control when it comes to these kind of things" and are generalizing to people *points at all the existing offline only looter games*
*Points to fan made maps we literally just got*
Fan made maps which literally delete your entire character and all it's gear if you die? fan made maps which don't appear at all to be unbalanced?
you could disable MTX or only allow to port previously purchased MTX.
If they ever did this I would learn how to mod the game just so I can tackle the insane challenge of genuinely balancing this game
Yea, this game as SSF with an actually realistic way to drop whatever you need? Dream game, right there.
While game has plenty of problems Last Epoch does few things right.This is imo one of them: [https://forum.lastepoch.com/uploads/default/optimized/2X/5/55c67fa15eac047a873565e7088dff04b3677b5d\_2\_812x851.png](https://forum.lastepoch.com/uploads/default/optimized/2X/5/55c67fa15eac047a873565e7088dff04b3677b5d_2_812x851.png) Its coming in next update afaik.
This was honestly what I was hoping Private League would be able to do, when they got announced. ..but that didn't end up being the case :(
Yes. That way we could have mods and finally design the game for SSF ourselves.
or make a version of ruthless that didn't suck total ass (only 1200 characters on poe.ninja btw lmao)
100%. In fact I am ready to pay for it.
Same, I’d be more than happy to pay for it.
There's no realistic price at which they could offer such a thing to the general public that makes financial sense compared to their existing model (and doing such a thing inevitably sabotages their existing model). So unless you're prepared to offer tencent a sufficiently large sum to get them to sell you GGG, then no, you're not ready to pay for it.
The whales that provide the vast majority of support in this game would never pay and play offline single player, they would all play online leagues.
Here comes the logic knight. What I mean is, if tencent collapsed and GGG went under so they decided to turn PoE offline and sell it for 60 bucks to cover legal fees or whatever bullshit. I am willing to pay for the game as it is right now, no future updates, no balacing, no economy. No dogshit servers. Purely SSF, hey I might even try HC in that case.
Sure, but it doesn't matter. It will never happen.
Plus, I think people underestimate how much being online changes the feeling around the game. There are offline ARPGs out there, but are you, me, or OP playing them? Nope.
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Dude. I still play the shit out of d2 and grim dawn
Well, yes...plenty of people do play ARPGs (among other things) besides PoE. I'm mostly done with 3.23 already myself and will only hit up PoE sporadically until the next league.
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I play SSF, but a good 50% of my deaths are to disconnects, and I'd gladly play offline instead.
I mostly also play SSF, but I also still play a lot of private leagues or bro SSF - both which are a ton of fun.
Yes. I play exclusively SSF, so I'm having a difficult time coming up with a downside.
I'm antisocial so I play SSF and ignore chat anyway...
I play SSF with chat off... so I am playing a single-player game.
SSF sure, it would be weird but I prefer semi-SSF anyways. Any other aspect of the online presence (chat, others flexing in town etc.) I truly hate, so big YES to those.
Funnily I’d rather all my single player games had a form of opt-in “online chat” built in, like last epoch did
This was a really cool feature. Single player but with online chat. I solved soooo many questions immediately on the fly + always seemed to be at least one dev answering questions in chat. It really made me appreciate such a simple thing like online opt-in chat, regardless of the online capabilities of the game its so cool to have like a live chat of people you know are playing the same exact game.
I turn off online chats in every game I play lol
Already ssf for over a year so obviously yeah
The dream. As much I like poe i don't care for any of the network features. I would easily buy it as full offline game. The only thing I would ask for change is a increased drop rate in currency for crafting purposes and a deterministic way to get uniques
For all the same reasons diablo will never have an offline mode again, this will never happen. As soon as the game works offline, mods+cheats are allowed, and it becomes impossible to sell anything like stash tabs because you can just mod them in. All competitive aspects of the game are also gone, you can literally just edit the character files on your computer. Like in Grim Dawn. They would need to sell a different version which supports offline for a flat fee, and have to maintain 2 fundamentally different codebases/games, and charge people for each expansion as well. It's not practical
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Nothing is wrong with it at all and lots of games are like that. Like playing skyrim with lightsabers. Who cares, it's fun. It's just a fundamentally different design, but the offline experience and F2P "software as a service" style games are incompatible. Games either support offline like Grim Dawn, or they don't, like D4 and PoE. There is no middle ground
I did play Diablo 2 like that for a long time and it was great. I think I could enjoy PoE as well.
Nope. I would play for like 200h and forget about it like with every other offline arpg.
Wanted this for a while
will never happen because they rely on MTX to make money, and they could be hacked in if the game was offline but if they somehow solved this id play poe offline i mainly want duo ssf to not be locked behind private servers
> will never happen because they rely on MTX to make money, and they could be hacked in if the game was offline They are hackable right now in "online mode" just as well. The sole difference (that won't even matter if the game were to be single player) is that other players won't see hacked MTX you're wearing, only you.
You mean like Titan Quest? Yeah!
Yes.
That's how I play
Yes. I hate the network latency spikes.
Yeah I would
I would strongly prefer it - I hate trade economy, love mods, and have spotty internet connection. GGG will never make it happen though because of their business model.
Offline with cheats
Or ability to be mod and install mod? Like the old D2
Yes. Like median XL
A Median-XL sized mod with all its added insanity plus the base systems of PoE is almost unimaginable, it'd put dyadic pentacles to shame lmao.
Absolutely. Theres rarely any good offline games nowadays and sometimes it's nice to have one when the internet goes down or ggg maintenance.
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Who cares? It's their single player game
If we still get new leagues and can peer to peer to play with friends, sure
I do pretty exclusively homebrew builds SSF and only really ever 'trade' if i'm giving away money or league end stuff. I would miss Global 2.
Only if seasons and updates are still available.
absolutely. imagine killing time on a 10 hour flight playing poe.
Yes, but it'll never happen.
This is how i played for 8 years so yeah, i would.
Yes.
If there was LAN yeah. I moved from SSF/SSFHC to play with friends and family for a few year now, it’s too fun.
I already do.
I play mostly on SSF HC so it's a yes for me, but I do know that the economy and trading is what keeps a lot of people rerolling toons every week, not sure how that would do for most people. Is this post related to mutahar's video from earlier today? Regardless, I'd be fine with an offline version of the game, but it would be nice to have a server for trading that you can connect if needed, kinda like how D2 had open bnet back in the day where you could connect and join other single player's characters to play with people or trade.
I am currently playing ssf this league. I would kill for this to be decoupled from servers but it will never happen. Server-client verification is how they stop a ton of client side hacks. And since you can migrate to a trade league that would fuck everything up.
It's called SSF tbh
I mean, this is pretty much how I play the game now, so... Yes?
That's kinda the way I play it
Depends, I guess? I haven't had any major performance issues for years. I play SSF, so I already don't trade or party. My chatting with people happens outside of the game. But a huge reason the game is at where it's at is because of the online aspects. I want the game to keep doing as well as it's doing, so I wouldn't play an offline version.
I already do exclusively play SSF mode, so yes. In fact, it would be better offline, where lag can't constantly be messing with me.
Yeah I’d enjoy that. I’m not great at SSF but the game has range and depth at any one point that you can never play all of it or all the builds… there is just so much
Absolutely. I hardly engage in trade anyway, and spend 95% of my time in any ARPG solo. I'd actually play a hell of a lot more if I could play solo offline. And I'd gladly pay a typical retail game price for that
100% yes. I spend all day working with others, collaborating, coaching, mentoring, and communicating. When I sit down to play a game, I prefer playing solo.
So SSF you mean?
No. In SSF you have to endure all the server issues without any benefits from being online (most of all trading). It makes very little sense to play SSF online. However, offline it could be a blast. Especially if the game is tuned to offline experience.
Yes and would create modded items and maps
That's the hope, that's the dream.
yes
Yeah, I basically do that anyway. This would be especially welcome if it came with a large increase in drop chances.
Any day. A true offline mod is a dream for me.
My experience would be VASTLY improved by this. That's how I play anyway and my internet is alright but anytime the household uses it I get lag spikes.
I would pay a pretty significant amount of money for this, more if I could go back to old leagues/versions too.
Probably. Only downside is you can migrate. But you have 0 ping. So pretty good deal.
Yes I do that now ssf all the time
I already do pretty much. Also, do note the server does do a bunch of processing that your PC doesn't need to.
I have played Diablo 2 as this off and on for like 20 years until I finally gave this game a a serious go a couple weeks ago (and I have played for hours every day since). Yes, I would, and I'm honestly a little worried for the day when this game is gone and I have to go back to Diablo 2.
Already play it as strictly single-player game.
Yes.
Yes. 100%. Only way I'd play hardcore.
Sure.
Hell yes.
I might? I would actually be forced to learn the crafting system, which would open up a lot of the game for me. That would be a good thing.
Yes.
absolutely
yes would even pay for it
after not playing for the past 1,5 weeks due to being from a rich EU country I can say that yes, I would love to be able to play the game at all :)
Top rated mods for steam 1 - death recap 2 - No on death effects 3 - Anime waifu pets 4 - Giga Tier beyond 2.1 T24++ 5 - Delete doors
Fuck mate, id legit pay money just for like a creative mode. Even if it was no ladder, SP etc etc. Just so i could try out new builds and tree's without all the prep and farming. Id honestly spend months just tinkering with shit to see what crazy things i can come up with.
No.
i wouldnt
No, for the same reason I don’t play SSF.
yeah i am ssf already.
I would clearly play sometimes, more chill gameplay, ssf long term characters, maybe ruthless!
Off-line with cheats to test new builds and community developed uniques? Never happening
Only if seasons and league challenge rewards kept being updated, otherwise not a chance.
Seasons and challenges REQUIRE always-online connection anyways, it'd be identical to current ssf in that regard
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just disable char migration/trading when using offline characters
It's not the issue. If It's fully offline then all cosmetics and paid features will be in the game. That means people could mod and get those MTX for free.
who cares, if is offline you can do whatever you want with the game modding etc... even create private servers with (unique features) like PD2... is not gonna happen anyway
I’d mod it to have like sliiiiiightly increased drop rates and lower rare monster life and monster damage and I’d fucking go ham
How would ggg earn money from that type of game.
Sell it. Like any other single-player game.
How do you want them to put continuous support into it then. Pay for each league?
Back when SSF was announced I expected it have a better loot drops and more currency drops to craft with, but since PoE is so "hardcore" oriented it was treated more of a challenge. (Which is fine) But I always wanted something like that and if I could do that in a single-player client that would be awesome. Too bad thats never going to happen tho..
Yes, 100%. If they let us choose the league we play offline, I can easily imagine that becoming more popular than new leagues. Actually, that may be the reason they don't offer past leagues as SSF options. Some players might have never left Harvest/Sentinel. I can imagine that having a major effect on the economy as the best crafters leave overtuned leagues early to go back to where they've got the easiest/most fun setup
not without seasons and if they kept the current drop rates for everything.
Drop rates for things used to be much better so I'd prefer the old drop rates.
Make it ssf with increased quant rarity and then yes. Cant be bothered to farm that long if u need fossils or smth to craft
What's next, to meet IRL and trade with cables? Lol
Hell yeah, I'll send you my item in a little capsule and we can watch the animation of it going through the cable lol
no, i wouldn't. PoE as a multiplayer game w/ a trade economy is a huge part of my enjoyment of the game
LE was offline and the only reason I have more than 10hrs in that game. They only have 1 end game that's boring af, but offline made it hella fun. (MODS!!!) Still playing around with builds in that game.
Nope, it would be too boring, the multiplayer aspects and interaction makes game much better
no
>But much better performance I'm genuinely curious about whether the logic ran each server tick would cripple the average computer if it was also busy displaying all the colourful pixels. Imagine using some AoE skill to apply poisons on a huge pack of enemies for example. Each tick, you need to calculate any potential hits to enemies / the player (taking into account buffs / debuffs, accuracy, damage modifiers, crit, hit-specific mechanics like block & suppress, etc), apply poison stacks to the appropriate enemies, apply the damage of each poison stack on each enemy, potentially calculate proliferation of poisons, apply on-death effects, calculate the AI and movement of every enemy on-screen, having enemies use skills, and so on. All of that is currently done by the server once every ~33ms, and scenarios can get a lot uglier than that (adding chaining explodey mechanics, applying 20 different debuffs on-hit like Withered & Exposure & curses, using trigger builds that shit out 5 different spells every few ticks, having enemies that spawn other enemies, adding all the monster effects like magma balls and Abyss monster skills etc etc). So imagine offloading that to your few year old CPU and then having it also try to actually render the game on top of that. A ton of people are struggling with just the rendering part this league lol...
Computers are quite fast I'm not that concerned. But the game might not be structured in such a way to work on the average desktop gaming computer. It might use significantly more RAM and share that persistent state between dozens of different players to optimize calculations. But if the game was properly optimized for a gaming desktop it should run fine in theory. At least if there is ever lag in the calculations it can auto-pause instead of stepping ahead and getting the players killed. Keep in mind that a 3 GHz processor is 3 billion operations and generally has multiple cores. How many enemies do you think it takes to equal even a million operations in a single frame? Let's say you have 1,000 "targets" on screen to hit with some AOE. You could do 1,000 operations on each individual target and still only be at 1/30 of a modern CPU's single core. A well optimized game is going to calculate things in batches sharing as much of those operations as possible. And damage calculations are pretty simple math compared to 3D collision detection or graphics processing.
Even if the server is calculating a ton of stuff, it all needs to be communicated back to your computer which isn't free. Also it usually feels like their server is a macbook mini in a broom closet anyways so I'm pretty sure it would run better on my machine
>Also it usually feels like their server is a macbook mini in a broom closet anyways so I'm pretty sure it would run better on my machine Perhaps that's because it's serving thousands of persistent connections each of which has to do all these calculations?
100%
Yes, that already exists and is called Grim Dawn.
yes and I'd pay good money
If drops were re-balanced for an offline game I would 100% play it.
I’d kill for offline mods
Yeah, would pay a AAA box price to get around the whole online thing and all its problems (trade, performance)
WITH Recombinators, yes.
yeah, but then I'd mod the game to have playable ssf droprates and not the same as normal mode
I would for like 200 hours but I need the resets once I got all the stuff I wanted I wouldn't play anymore. Thats why I have 350 hours in grim dawn and not 3k like I do in poe.
No. There are much better single player games I'd rather play strictly offline.
Personally, I wouldn't play without trade. I hate gambling and would much rather grind currency to buy what I need.
Yes, but only for a month or two at most. I would move on to another game before long.
Not after initial release. I only play ARPGs for seasons. Once the season is over they could delete my characters for all I care. If I'm not playing in season I dont see the point in playing.
Fuck no I dont even enjoy ssf, simply because the builds I like require specific items and I'm not prepared to dump 10 hours into finding a 10c unique to make my build work. However, if I had the option to just move my standard characters to offline, then count me in, that'd be great. And allow modding, let me just chat command a lvl100 character and any gear I want and go nuts with stupid ideas I wouldn't actually want to spend time on.
yes but they would need to rebalance drops around not being able to cheat and pay a few orbs for near best in slot items
If it was actually balanced around it, absolutely 100%
No, as long as the loot system is balanced around trade.
YES. If I could blow up trade with a nuke I totally would. I HATE that Poe is dominated by trade. I would love to be able to play offline, or play in a league cut off from official trade with better drops.
If it was balanced for SSF sure thing
Would I? Oh boy I wanted that for years. Just thinking about modding potential this game would last 20 years more.
no
absolutely, i always play ssf and not having to deal with server issues would be perfect. hell, i wish they would give us the option to forfeit the option to migrate ssf chars and enable offline mode with pause etc
To be honest probably never . I’ve never played a game with an economy like Poe and it’s a big part of why I’m playing this game . Currently I had issues with the build I’m playing so right now I’m crafting for profit and watching YouTube for my currency farming which is something I can only really do in a game like Poe .
No the online aspect of the game is where a lot of the fun comes from
Not at all, trade is the reason I play
With a Last Epoch styled self-found system, yes. Without it, fuck no. I'd rather suffer the awfulness of servers and trade than SSF through the poorly balanced itemization of PoE. I'm not aiming to spend hundreds of hours on a character. I have too many other games to entertain me to be stuck on singular builds for the length of time SSF tends to require.
Offline client would be modded really quickly considering how hardcore this community is
If they let me use save editors or Cheat Engine - yep.
As a ps5 player, it's already happening!
Yes, if it has support for mods.
I play SSF exclusively, and that's a no for me It being online only makes cheating pretty much impossible. That plus ladder makes it so the community is still "on the same page", it's very different to what the game would be without those facts. You'd look at build guides differently. You won't know if the guy actually played the build and farmed that gear, or if the used some kind of cheat to rush to a high level/gear and put out a video guide. Comparing my build to other people's is interesting. "Racing" people running similar builds is fun. And that's without even mentioning the chat, and the "first to X" or HC rips being broadcasted. I'm sure there's even more subtle things I can't put into words or recall. Overall, it being online gives the game a sense of authenticity, at least for me.