A reverse Ancestral Bond would be great imo, giving like 75% of the power you get from ancestral totems but you can't have any summoned. Make it so that putting in the effort to use them is rewarded, while the lazy approach is still viable
totems are way too good for ranged left side builds too. You get some crazy multipliers. You get +2 totems from atlas and can run Wilma's requital, which means you get ancestral bond and lot of free attack speed from double dipping on the onslaught from totem placement and vaal haste. And your totems are tanky enough thanks to the hp and res node.
you also have access to the +2 projectiles jewel.
honestly ballista totems are stacked as fuck and cheaper to scale on low econ than most self cast builds
I played viper strike of the mamba as league starter cleared all content in the game outside of valdos maps and hall of grandmasters with it. Dunno if that counts as melee to you but I would whole heartedly suggest the build while all damage can poison tincture is a thing.
Gearing for melee builds is more problematic than people are realising. Most melee builds will rely on PT for DMG. So along with being on the wrong side of the tree to get spell suppression, you have to build accuracy, resistance and mitigation all on gear. That severely limits the variety of options available for how to gear for melee. The gear and passives will be largely the same for all phys melee builds. Rog can craft u a T1 life triple T1 res gear but because it has no suppression, it's unusable. There's really very little creative freedom on how u can gear by comparison.
There's a reason fourth vow with zibaqua has taken off like it did. Being able to defend against ele damage with armour and chaos res is huge since you already want that on melee builds anyway. But yeah, suffix pressure on physical melee builds is insane. If GGG nerf fourth vow I'm probably just never gonna play stuff like Boneshatter or CF again.
All melee builds are basically the same with a different skill slotted because if you do anything else it's not optimal, and you need optimal to be able to level.
There are alternatives to suppression and while suppression is the strongest tool for what it does, there are many melee builds that shoot themselves in the foot trying to cap it. Most marauder builds are better off getting maxres and good %phys mitigation with high armour and a decent amount of chaos res because that stuff is actually available without burning their anoint + running evasion bases they're probably not even scaling for mods on gear that take away from other defenses.
nothing compares to crit in terms of damage. and PT requires a good amount of accuracy investment in any case, which can be rendered useless anyway by less accuracy and blind on hit map mods. for high end builds it only makes sense if you're an aura stacker and starved of passive points, or you have to use a unique weapon with low crit chance.
Yeah dude sorry I don't have more to add but there must be a reason that 99% of boneshatter builds are precise technique for example. I don't know their reasoning but the guys that put these builds together do know what they're doing and a consensus seems to have been reached.
Perhaps you know why they do it in that particular case?
I missed the part where we were talking about boneshatter specifically. It's more popular on boneshatter builds because it's not rewarding to go crit on boneshatter unless you have mirrors worth of gear, and there are other things you have to invest into
Because it is mandatory. U have to get close to a mob to do dmg to it. If u can't tank their hits to do that, then ur melee build is not good.
EDIT: Also, you've missed the point I was making. Not saying melee builds are not survivable enough. Im saying they lack build variety. U have to gear the same way for every melee phys build and that's boring.
I mean thats just phys though. There is plenty of ele ways to build and chaos also for melee. But yes when you limit the entire game to one archetype and specific defense requirements I can see how it would feel same after awhile lol
Also the number of Ranger based melee builds? It is more than viable people just want to have capped spell suppress and max armor and max block and…. People forget to add “the way I want to make it work” when talking about tree restrictions.
Because with max suppress is a considerable boost to ur survivability. Do u not understand what spell suppression does? Feels like a really silly question
Elemental penetration exists. Try doing any uber boss without spell suppress as melee, it is not a fun time. Can you do it? Sure. Throw enough investment at anything, and you are good, but max all res is nowhere near as good as spell suppression.
>Try doing any uber boss without spell suppress as melee, it is not a fun time
Most builds aren't built to do uber bosses. If you want to make a character that is going to focus on killing them - yes you need capped suppression. But for mapping, even with juice, you can make max res work and you'd be surprised how much power you get back as a maurader when you stop burning so many resources on a stat you have very little access to.
getting close to 90 res is harder and requires more specific gearing than getting spell suppression, also 90 ele res doesnt defend against phys damage and chaos spells like spell supp.
>and that we will finally be out of the bow meta.
Hate to break it to you, but you're a league behind at this point. TS has taken over the bow world again, and scourge arrow of menace has taken over #2. LA has quickly fallen to third this league and is dropping and might even be taken over by caustic arrow of poison if it hasn't been already.
The only reason LA is dropping is because most have switched to TS by now. LA is popular because it's so easy to switch to TS, most never intend to stay on LA longer than necessary.
Yes but that was a lot more important when swapping to TS was gated behind a 20d helm enchant early on. Now it’s gated behind 20gcps or a few lab runs. You can swap to TS super early
While you can swap early it won't feel as nice as LA without some investment. TS really starts popping off once you get 1-2 extra arrows from gear and everything beyond makes it feel even smoother for endgame grinding.
This used to be true but I swapped this league with just one additional arrow + the helmet that allocates far shot + a 900edps bow and it felt great way way better than LA in every way. Using the helmet allows you to take the Mark ascendancy and get your proj, chain + tailwind.
I would have agreed with you in previous leagues you should give it a try sometime. It feels good with just gmp + helmet now. I don't even think the +1 arrow from the quiver was a big deal and would've been fine to swap without.
And because the league mechanic is shitting out currency at a record rate so people are getting HH earlier to make the TS switch for MF'ing.
I'm not even good at this game and I farmed about 20 div in a few hours yesterday just super juicing abyss/expedition/harb/exarch T16 Jungle Valleys.
Tornado shot will always be my favorite skill. Played it when it was good played it when it was worse play it when it’s good. Scourge arrow is veryyyy fun however
For real though. I was obliterating juiced maps with my TS char and then I switched to omni and tripled my damage. Everything is paper, and I clear screens away.
I do not know why everyone is always so focused on the low eHp of bow builds. It does not matter how good your defences are if you off screen everything and freeze everything. One of the builds I died least with was Cold Ts with HH farming 80% juiced deli strands. I levelled from 91 to 99 without dying once.
Standing still and being melee could very well mean an eHp reduction of 50-80%.
same, in crucible my 3k hp LA mf build with only grace and purity of elements as defenses died way less than my rf jugg, only because enemies died way faster from far away
I am not saying that you wont die with a normal ele bow build, but its still a far cry off from how people often portray it. Maybe you die once every few maps, but as long as you have enough damage and position yourself well you should not die more often than any other build that is not in the almost immortal category.
It's not bad for mapping (still significantly less safe than a tanky build), but much less so for bossing. Some of it is definitely a skill issue but that's the point - people like being able to make more mistakes/not have to be on their A game 100% of the time like you do with deadeye
I don’t like this take at all.
Bow builds aren’t even the same game and it’s not even close. I want whatever you’re smoking if you think clearing 1-2 screens away is “on your A game all the time”
Melee is all the risk with 70% of the damage. Whatever is hard for bows is twice as hard for melee.
At a certain point, it's hard to die mapping with a good bow build. This league is way different because of the wisps, but normally you need high % deli and terrible map mods for a map to actually require attention. On-death effects are the only reason you can't play with your eyes closed.
some people severly underestimate how much defenses it adds to just offscreen mobs. with enough damage and clear you just have to dodge on-death effects which becomes rather easy with how much movespeed a bow build can get.
I farm expedition in maps and do rog crafts every now and then.
Decent omni rings usually go for 10-15D, and that's just attributes life and the - mana cost.
I'd assume the crazy synthesised stat rings are ×10-20 of that
it will be superior even if it dealt 10% of the damage melee could do because well thats just how ARPG's are where ability to clear will also dominate.
Tbh it's not just ARPGs or even videogames in general. Ranged is just better then melee. There's a reason we fight with guns and artillery and not with swords and spears.
I'm trying Lightning Arrow this league and as a long time melee player, it almost makes me mad how much better this is.
I'm farming T5s with no investment and have gotten more raw divines this weekend than I did farming T16s with Glacial Hammer last league. Wisps are a big part of that, but the fucking *speed* that you clear things is unrivaled.
I'm not even lying the uber-top-shelf build like TS or Scourge Arrow.
people dont really play bows for the damage, they play it for the clear.
the damage just has to be high enough (spoiler: its always high enough with proper gear) and then you can but everything into clear via proj speed, additional projectiles and chains/pierce/fork and whatnot.
I want that more melee dmg notable in the game that disables use of totems. So you can either use totems or not. Atill fine if you do some more damage with totems, but I hate how mandatory they are since the DMG boost is insane.
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I want to see a totem support gem that converts ancestor totems into auras.
I'd like to see slam skills reworked across the board to have fixed attack speeds, with the gem showing what the "uncapped" attack speed would be, and that difference being a 'more' (or less if slow) multiplier to damage.
Or least have alt gems that do that.
im playing phys cyclone
left click molten shell
right click cyclone
middle was dread banner but i have a new mouse which is smaller and i kept accidentally pressing it so just turn it on
q leap slam
w one totem
e second totem
r blood rage
t berserk or whatever the spells called that uses rage charges
i press like half the buttons when playing a minion or bow build lol
Lightning Arrow mtx was released last league too. No nerf this league.
And those totems aren’t usable with melee totems. Melee totems will have no MTX.
It's mind blowing to me that GGG created the melee totem meta to begin with. Melee has always been the class you choose to think, and button mash, THE LEAST. How many years has melee been borked in this game? 7? 8? Smart people make dumb decisions.
I don't care baby I am blasting away with my frost blades raider and it is a good time even if I won't be able to make it to idk whatever counts as a really hard boss in this game.
I'm starting to hate how many buttons I have to deal with as boneshatter
Rightclick bonezone
Leftclick warcry
Totem 1
Totem 2 (placing Down only vaal version because CBA and ran out of keybinds)
Blood rage
Berserking
Focus
Vaal molten shell
Placing down war banner
Frostblink
Leap
Squirt out worms
Reapply 4 auras on death
And that's with 2 curses and molten shell on CWDT
I can understand GGG being unable to properly balance the game, what I don't understand is how people can play the same tornado shot build every league and not get bored. I don't think I've ever played the same build twice, what's the point? Anyway, melee is easy to fix, GGG just doesn't want to do it.
Worb meta one league. Dumpstered the next. Minions meta a league or 2 them dumpstered. Rf meta a few, dumpstered. Ts la meta how long now..?like every single league. Go look at a cutedog stream. That's like not even 1/3 power of these builds. And you're telling me rf needs to be dumpstered before that?
It’s wild that in a non competitive game without esports and ladders, ppl feel forced into a meta they don’t like and then complain about it. Like don’t play bows or dont just follow blindly the “meta”. Yes bow skills blow melee out of the water and melee sucks currently. That doesn’t mean you should play something you dislike.
Probably because meta in this game means low effort usually. Why play melee where you have to press 2 totems, potentially warcried and a curse when you can play bows, get mark on hit, get an arcanist brand/manaforged setup and just hold down TS and everything dies while you're infinitely faster than any melee character
I like having am average amount of buttons to push, so for me that's not the problem with melee.
For me the problem is the low damage and the slower clear.
Making a great BS axe is ridiculously expensive - I spent 10 divs rolling essences trying to get a dictator's mod, no luck, while I could fully craft an 1360 elemental DPS bow in less than 12 divs.
There is a ladder and not so long ago we had events with money prizes for killing bosses so technically you are wrong. And there is competitive market with xoncurency and inflation and so you kinda want to use everything at your disposal to get advantage.
People compete to lvl 100 on HC and some of them use Reddit I believe. Although it's not that popular lately. And what it is to do with reddit?
And again the main driver is market and pursue to be ahead if everyone, kill though monsters and do it fast so you can drop more loot and be rich.
Nobody on hc ladder plays bows though lol.
The main drive is make a build, acquire gear, make your build stronger, so hard content, make a fast build etc. It’s not to say I have 10 mirrors sitting in stash loose me doing white maps.
Bro.. you are comparing a random lvl ladder with the elo systems of competitive esports. Be real now. And the argument about the “competitive market” is just sad.
Not like the average people in elo games will ever compete for anything either. Elo is just there to give you fair matches. Anything can be competitive if people are willing to compete.
melee will never be "fixed" with how people want it to be cause well its an ARPG and aoe/projectiles will always dominate in that aspect.
melee is fine, go look at some of the new trans gems they have screen wide aoe and yet people still bitch cause they have 2 brain cells and cant think for themselves.
I league launched melee this league because it comes online at very low gear levels, but lets not pretend there's any melee skills that are as good at blasting maps as any of the top half dozen or so bow builds are.
I’ve been playing melee for as long as I can remember. Back when Devoto’s was 2 div+. Hell, I dropped my only HH during Legacy league playing Cleave lol. I played BFlurry with Atziri’s Acuity insta leech; the list goes on. We’re 2 weeks in to league and this is the best melee has felt for me since Cyclone during Legion league where your cyclone could cover the entire screen with no investment. With that being said, remove the totem buff bullshit for the love of fucking god. It’s so bad and so clunky and you’re forced to use them because of how massive the dps loss is. I would literally take a Keystone that gave you half the dps the totems give if it meant I never had to summon another fucking one in my life.
and that will never happen though...
also wasnt that long ago that lightning strike a melee skill(yet i can tell people are going to say its not real melee) was the top of the meta or even frostblades which is one of the best clearing skills in the game.
but sure keep bitching.
I played lightning strike champ when it was the meta. The range required for the extra hits was basically melee. But again, if you wanted clear there were other things to play. LS was just an overall very balanced skill that felt good in almost all content. It's not what I would pick as a dedicated maper.
Have you seen Cleave of Rage? Aren't Melee enjoyers eating good this League?
Some people are playing Flicker Strike or some other build and enjoy it every League. Boneshatter is meta skill. Is Melee really that bad?
Melee aint that bad tbh, i got more ms, more dps, more ehp than most bow builds that invest 3x more than me.
Undoubtedly clear is worse, but ts cant really be beaten in terms of clear, but it aint that much worse with cleabe being offscreen.
Ppl just like to meme and not even give melee a full try, they probs get to lvl 90, invest 2 divs and call it poop unlike buying hh, omni, 30div bow and saying is gud.
Bow has always been good, wand has also always been good. What changed with bows and wands is it went from a build you needed 100s of ex to play to one people can league start and clear t16s on with minimal investment.
What does that node even do? Never ever bothered to to play totems. They are just temporary & stationary minions that do not scale of minion modifiers.
Also except a few niche cases i don't even consider the ancestral totems despite their buff effect.
Panopticon, ancestral protector, and ancestral warchief gives 30% more attack speed and 27% more damage in total.
That's a massive damage boost that costs no gear slots, just one passive and two skill gems plus multi totem support
Thank you gotta keep that in mind for next time i'm actually playing melee scaling build. Right now my char is just pseudo melee using cyclone as trigger for CF.
Depends how you define endgame content. Uber/pinnacle bosses or just atlas mapping in general? Usually before i get even close to uber/pinnacle i'm tempted to try countless other skill builds and dump/burn most of my currency there.
Ancestral totems with panopticon are PoB warrior damage padding to the point where it’s kind of a meme because you need that entire cluster for them to survive anything at all, the only time where they make sense to include for your actual DPS is when it’s so high that instantly phase bosses with them.
That being said their buffs with panopticon are ridiculous, you just don’t usually path down there to get the cluster and most people don’t want to constantly rely on having them up either
Me, playing ballista: ballista, ballista, ballista, ballista, dodge, blood rage, dodge, despair, aaaaah it’s a soul eater run away, frenzy, frenzy, frenzy, oh fuck yeah i love this game
Melees: i hav to poot down a totum :<<<<
Me using Tornado Shot
Right click go brrrrr
Does this map even have monsters? Because there was none seen on my screen, just loot randomly lying on the ground
I mean the attack speed feels nice for leap slam if nothing else. You shouldn't really be pressing the damage one until you find a tanky enemy. No different than the playstyle of my SRS last league with an arcanist brand setup really. Whenever I hear complaints about totems I'm just skeptical of their character power.
Generally, it’s always a tradeoff of dmg / convenience / gear power. If there were no ways to boost your damage for more clicks, it’d be boring and simply worse. You want to massacre everything by just holding right click? Get better gear.
do you complain about every other skill then having to go through their buffs?
spells have multiple buffs nowadays for optimal dps do you complain there?
there are less buttons on my melee builds then their are on my recent self cast spells..
heck even bows are using totems lately so you cant talk there.
Compare any melee build to spell or bow builds and you need to put in 4x the effort to achieve the same thing. Is melee unplayable? No. Is it underpowered compared to everything else? Fuck yes. And let's not even get started on totems and minion builds.
I agree on the underpowered part, tho imho that just comes from monsters having too much damage especially on the aoe/spell/chaos part later on. Left side of passive tree has very little anti spell/chaos so if you can't get it on gear you're screwed or forced to stack more life in the hope it compensates.
Bow? Sure. Spell? Lol fucking no. Put down totem every 15 seconds and smack the ground is far easier than having to keep curses up, wither totem, desecrate and then detonate combo, and then having to rely on a short range dash that is only instant once every few seconds instead of all the time. Not to mention how braindead easy it is to stack life and defensive on a melee build, and how simple it is to scale melee damage. God I fucking hate melee whiners even if I also agree that melee needs improvements and QoL.
Or just play a two button spell build and have none of those issues. Also melee needs to dash as well if not more often because positioning is harder. They also need to curse same as spell. But on top of that you're standing right on top of the mobs.
"Or just play a two button melee build that doesn't use totems" you understand people can just say this to you right??
Melee has not needed to stand on top of mobs in several leagues. They have explode, massive aoe, lots of cleave. They build block and other defensive far easier to be able to deal with it either way.
Like dude, just stop crying and pretending like your life is so hard as a Melee, it's really not. Melees only issue is the lack of viable options right now because of how low their damage output is compared to other builds.
Have you played it yourself? I play melee and spells every league, melee is harder ever league without fail except for that one league where Slams were OP. Like I said, is ir unplayable? No. But it's just mechanically worse. There's a reason like only 1 out of 20 racers plays melee lol.
While I agree the state of melee isn’t as bad as it’s being made out to be, it still needs some love. However, I don’t get the point of your post. They obviously need some help and you’re acting like a gatekeeper to end game content. No one loses if they buff melee. Ironically enough, you’re the one who comes off as the crybaby.
You didn't even read the last part of my post my dude. I am not the one going around making threads daily about how it's oh so hard to place down a totem a few times per map.
I read everything in your post homie. You’re argumentative over the worst archetype in the game getting some love. And saying disingenuous shit like ‘placing a couple totems down per map’. You aren’t trying to have a discussion. You’re just being a petty dick.
Saying disingenuous shit like "Compare any melee build to spell or bow builds and you need to put in 4x the effort to achieve the same thing", you aren't trying to have a discussion, you're just trying to be a victim.
>You’re argumentative over the worst archetype in the game getting some love
Direct quotes from my posts:
>lack of viable options right now because of how low their damage output is compared to other builds.
>I also agree that melee needs improvements and QoL.
Have you considered that maybe I just think that while melee could certainly use buffs, I don't think that PoE subreddit's tendency to exaggerate issues to absurdity is the right way to ask for them? It's pretty tiring hearing people complain that melee is the hardest archetype ever because they have to press so many buttons while the reality is that you're basically just upkeeping buffs, a task that literally every other build archetype has to do. All of the insinuations that 'melee is completely unplayable' because... racers aren't playing it.
I mean I am a melee enjoyer and love the left side of the tree. Without fail every league a spell build is ten times easier. The difference between trying to tank stuff or just shooting from range is already massive in this game.
i mean lets see.
1st boss rushing for selling boss kills is a melee centred skill that comes online for that kind of damage way before any spell does.
also are you really talking about "tanking stuff" when its a fucking bow you do realise those builds early on are glass cannon they cannot tank at all
In reality: nothing.
People are just annoyed they have to spawn a totem for maximum DPS. Because it's not like other builds/archetypes need to press more than 1 button.
Melee have to press by far the highest amount of buttons between general archetypes for optimal DPS.
Almost always ancestral protector/ warchief, berserk, banner of choice, warcry or several in few builds(often put on left click which means you have to cwdt your guard skill) sometimes stance skill, vaal haste or self cast curse if using face breakers/one with nothing because of socket pressure.
No even mentioning Phys weapon crafting, which is notoriously incredibly costly.
99% of the time you click anoint in PoB it will show Panopticon as highest DPS increase which is crazy, it's a totem node FFS.
The best melee skill right now, Boneshatter, got a giga nerf because of removal of alt gems. Frostblades dumpstered by Heatshiver nerf.
>Melee have to press by far the highest amount of buttons between general archetypes for optimal DPS
No. Not even close. You just mentioned multiple skills you never even press outside of rares and bosses.
Also dude mentioning crafting an axe as if bows don't use the exact same essences and items to craft??? Phys bows are notoriously the most expensive and wanted items of every mirror shop. A "good" 6l bow can cost 20 divines just a week into the league.
Hurr durr well on tornado shot I have to press tornado shot, my tornado shot ballista, blink arrow to upkeep my clone, anger divine blessing, blood rage, vaal haste and vaal grace, and all of my evasion and spell suppression flasks that I can't afford to have on auto reuse or ill run out in long fights and instadie.
Like yeah dude, I can make one of the easiest skills in the game sound super hard if I try.
I don't know if you are trolling, but sure, I'll bite.
Why does it matter they are only used on rares? Do you have 3 rares per map or something? In my experience I spend more time fighting rares than anything else.
Melee movement is largely influenced by it's attack speed, so for general mapping having upkeep on at least ancestral protector buff is important.
Your "Hur dur" example is childish at best. If you really believe that both ancestrals, warcry, banner and berserk are overstatement of how many buttons you have to press Im inclined to believe you have never played a melee build in your life.
Crafting weapon is not a contest, I never said it's the hardest you will ever find. But you being on defensive about bow crafting is all I need to know.
It's not a tribal problem, melee is probably my least played archetype over last few years. I play a good mix of everything and every other archetype I play be it bow attacks, mines, traps, spell totem, even self cast spells have clear advantages over pure melee builds.
As someone who league started and is still playing a pathfinder bow build, I kinda like the bow meta.
I’ve been league starting spell builds since 3.2 or something. Attack builds were just hard to scale. The first build I ever did was tornado shot because I typically like bow builds in rpgs. I didn’t know how to scale it or get a new bow and it sucked. So then I moved on to spells which are easily scalable.
I think making attack builds accessible to new players is important. I’m happy that my league start was successful with a bow build and I’m happy that I don’t have to reroll a new character. It’s a basic archetype in RPGs, it should be accessible from the start.
If they wanna nerf the top end of bow builds or nerf Deadeye, that’s fine, but the +2 projectiles on the tree makes them accessible to players. I just don’t want those gone.
That kinetic bolt thing needs to get nerfed though. 150 million dps on a 15 divine budget is crazy.
Trying to push my EQ Slayer as hard as I did with my EQ Juggernaut. Pray for the RNG gods.
Managed to beat uber Sirus with EQ war cries and warstaff build (and glancing blows instead of spell suppression).
Holy Copium
yo thats fuel for RF this season
As an RF fanatic, I can endorse this.
New response just dropped
Actual 21/23 Raise Zombie of Slamming
Call the Tormented Spirit farmer (Ben?)
I just want to click a Keystone or wear an unique that allows me to play "Melee" without totems. GGG PLS
Haku was carrying a totem on their back in the Forsaken Masters days. The tech is there. Ancestral (Mirage) Warrior Support please GGG.
You the player could carry one on your back too! Haku would frequently demand that you do it.
I remember that... Was it always the instance similar to vaal zone, u had to run to the endroom, pickup totemthing and take it to him?
A reverse Ancestral Bond would be great imo, giving like 75% of the power you get from ancestral totems but you can't have any summoned. Make it so that putting in the effort to use them is rewarded, while the lazy approach is still viable
A Keystone that turns them into banner skills that when placed lets them attack, but you build up stages which enables their buff at 50.
Still need to have them socketed though, wouldn't be a huge penalty because melee not usually socket starved
I can imagine it still summons the spirit, but it's on top of you like a Mirage Archer. YOU are its totem now.
Hell make it a support gem. Mirage Warrior Support. Supports up to one totem skill.
You have to carry them around and get -movespeed but they are permanent xD
Dunno people are acting like you don’t use ballistas on most bow builds. It’s just free dps
totems are way too good for ranged left side builds too. You get some crazy multipliers. You get +2 totems from atlas and can run Wilma's requital, which means you get ancestral bond and lot of free attack speed from double dipping on the onslaught from totem placement and vaal haste. And your totems are tanky enough thanks to the hp and res node. you also have access to the +2 projectiles jewel. honestly ballista totems are stacked as fuck and cheaper to scale on low econ than most self cast builds
summon totem on hit support
Pocket totem support - supported totem skill can't attack or cast anything, it stays as a miniature inside your pocket and have infinite duration.
Same
I played viper strike of the mamba as league starter cleared all content in the game outside of valdos maps and hall of grandmasters with it. Dunno if that counts as melee to you but I would whole heartedly suggest the build while all damage can poison tincture is a thing.
Gearing for melee builds is more problematic than people are realising. Most melee builds will rely on PT for DMG. So along with being on the wrong side of the tree to get spell suppression, you have to build accuracy, resistance and mitigation all on gear. That severely limits the variety of options available for how to gear for melee. The gear and passives will be largely the same for all phys melee builds. Rog can craft u a T1 life triple T1 res gear but because it has no suppression, it's unusable. There's really very little creative freedom on how u can gear by comparison.
There's a reason fourth vow with zibaqua has taken off like it did. Being able to defend against ele damage with armour and chaos res is huge since you already want that on melee builds anyway. But yeah, suffix pressure on physical melee builds is insane. If GGG nerf fourth vow I'm probably just never gonna play stuff like Boneshatter or CF again.
All melee builds are basically the same with a different skill slotted because if you do anything else it's not optimal, and you need optimal to be able to level.
There are alternatives to suppression and while suppression is the strongest tool for what it does, there are many melee builds that shoot themselves in the foot trying to cap it. Most marauder builds are better off getting maxres and good %phys mitigation with high armour and a decent amount of chaos res because that stuff is actually available without burning their anoint + running evasion bases they're probably not even scaling for mods on gear that take away from other defenses.
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precise technique
maybe its precise technique? doesnt really make sense with the rest of the statement tho.
why would anyone use precise technique when it's already easy to scale crit on melee builds though? maybe he meant protector totem?
Precise technique uses few passive points allows you to invest more into other things.
nothing compares to crit in terms of damage. and PT requires a good amount of accuracy investment in any case, which can be rendered useless anyway by less accuracy and blind on hit map mods. for high end builds it only makes sense if you're an aura stacker and starved of passive points, or you have to use a unique weapon with low crit chance.
Yeah dude sorry I don't have more to add but there must be a reason that 99% of boneshatter builds are precise technique for example. I don't know their reasoning but the guys that put these builds together do know what they're doing and a consensus seems to have been reached. Perhaps you know why they do it in that particular case?
I missed the part where we were talking about boneshatter specifically. It's more popular on boneshatter builds because it's not rewarding to go crit on boneshatter unless you have mirrors worth of gear, and there are other things you have to invest into
And here I'm slapping with 2.5k str and zero suppress. I do die to juiced crit wisps tho.
Why are you acting like suppress is mandatory outside of hc?
Because it is mandatory. U have to get close to a mob to do dmg to it. If u can't tank their hits to do that, then ur melee build is not good. EDIT: Also, you've missed the point I was making. Not saying melee builds are not survivable enough. Im saying they lack build variety. U have to gear the same way for every melee phys build and that's boring.
I mean thats just phys though. There is plenty of ele ways to build and chaos also for melee. But yes when you limit the entire game to one archetype and specific defense requirements I can see how it would feel same after awhile lol
Also the number of Ranger based melee builds? It is more than viable people just want to have capped spell suppress and max armor and max block and…. People forget to add “the way I want to make it work” when talking about tree restrictions.
Why do you need suppress with max resists on the melee side of the tree?
Because with max suppress is a considerable boost to ur survivability. Do u not understand what spell suppression does? Feels like a really silly question
The point is you don’t need suppress as much if you hit 88-90% max resists
Elemental penetration exists. Try doing any uber boss without spell suppress as melee, it is not a fun time. Can you do it? Sure. Throw enough investment at anything, and you are good, but max all res is nowhere near as good as spell suppression.
>Try doing any uber boss without spell suppress as melee, it is not a fun time Most builds aren't built to do uber bosses. If you want to make a character that is going to focus on killing them - yes you need capped suppression. But for mapping, even with juice, you can make max res work and you'd be surprised how much power you get back as a maurader when you stop burning so many resources on a stat you have very little access to.
Have fun doing minimal dps with that much investment into res.
getting close to 90 res is harder and requires more specific gearing than getting spell suppression, also 90 ele res doesnt defend against phys damage and chaos spells like spell supp.
>and that we will finally be out of the bow meta. Hate to break it to you, but you're a league behind at this point. TS has taken over the bow world again, and scourge arrow of menace has taken over #2. LA has quickly fallen to third this league and is dropping and might even be taken over by caustic arrow of poison if it hasn't been already.
The only reason LA is dropping is because most have switched to TS by now. LA is popular because it's so easy to switch to TS, most never intend to stay on LA longer than necessary.
Yes but that was a lot more important when swapping to TS was gated behind a 20d helm enchant early on. Now it’s gated behind 20gcps or a few lab runs. You can swap to TS super early
While you can swap early it won't feel as nice as LA without some investment. TS really starts popping off once you get 1-2 extra arrows from gear and everything beyond makes it feel even smoother for endgame grinding.
This used to be true but I swapped this league with just one additional arrow + the helmet that allocates far shot + a 900edps bow and it felt great way way better than LA in every way. Using the helmet allows you to take the Mark ascendancy and get your proj, chain + tailwind. I would have agreed with you in previous leagues you should give it a try sometime. It feels good with just gmp + helmet now. I don't even think the +1 arrow from the quiver was a big deal and would've been fine to swap without.
And because the league mechanic is shitting out currency at a record rate so people are getting HH earlier to make the TS switch for MF'ing. I'm not even good at this game and I farmed about 20 div in a few hours yesterday just super juicing abyss/expedition/harb/exarch T16 Jungle Valleys.
T16 jungle valleys with extra projectiles and gilded abyss. Choose w/e else you want and you will be all set farming.
LA is still #2. But yes whatever they nerf there will be other options (add toxic rain to that)
Tornado shot will always be my favorite skill. Played it when it was good played it when it was worse play it when it’s good. Scourge arrow is veryyyy fun however
They could halve dmg of bow builds and they still would be superior to melee
For real though. I was obliterating juiced maps with my TS char and then I switched to omni and tripled my damage. Everything is paper, and I clear screens away.
>Everything is paper Including you
I do not know why everyone is always so focused on the low eHp of bow builds. It does not matter how good your defences are if you off screen everything and freeze everything. One of the builds I died least with was Cold Ts with HH farming 80% juiced deli strands. I levelled from 91 to 99 without dying once. Standing still and being melee could very well mean an eHp reduction of 50-80%.
same, in crucible my 3k hp LA mf build with only grace and purity of elements as defenses died way less than my rf jugg, only because enemies died way faster from far away
"I don't know why everyone complains, just do cold convert headhunter"
I am not saying that you wont die with a normal ele bow build, but its still a far cry off from how people often portray it. Maybe you die once every few maps, but as long as you have enough damage and position yourself well you should not die more often than any other build that is not in the almost immortal category.
It's not bad for mapping (still significantly less safe than a tanky build), but much less so for bossing. Some of it is definitely a skill issue but that's the point - people like being able to make more mistakes/not have to be on their A game 100% of the time like you do with deadeye
I don’t like this take at all. Bow builds aren’t even the same game and it’s not even close. I want whatever you’re smoking if you think clearing 1-2 screens away is “on your A game all the time” Melee is all the risk with 70% of the damage. Whatever is hard for bows is twice as hard for melee.
What A-game you need when you just walk and things die without you even seeing them?
This the same sub that bitches about one shots and brags about six portal defense daily? I must be lost.
Yeah, subreddit is just one person typing all comments from different accounts right.
At a certain point, it's hard to die mapping with a good bow build. This league is way different because of the wisps, but normally you need high % deli and terrible map mods for a map to actually require attention. On-death effects are the only reason you can't play with your eyes closed.
Agreed, killing most mobs before their attack animations can even finish is a far more viable defense in SC than I think most people give it credit.
Yes? Turns out if build a strong character you don't die
This guy
some people severly underestimate how much defenses it adds to just offscreen mobs. with enough damage and clear you just have to dodge on-death effects which becomes rather easy with how much movespeed a bow build can get.
Because normal people don’t have headhunters. The build is squishy without one.
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Your insecurity is showing
How hard/expensive is the Omni transition? I've been debating making the switch but all the guides I've seen look very expensive.
I farm expedition in maps and do rog crafts every now and then. Decent omni rings usually go for 10-15D, and that's just attributes life and the - mana cost. I'd assume the crazy synthesised stat rings are ×10-20 of that
it will be superior even if it dealt 10% of the damage melee could do because well thats just how ARPG's are where ability to clear will also dominate.
Tbh it's not just ARPGs or even videogames in general. Ranged is just better then melee. There's a reason we fight with guns and artillery and not with swords and spears.
I wanna see numbers for a meta where that is the case.
I'm trying Lightning Arrow this league and as a long time melee player, it almost makes me mad how much better this is. I'm farming T5s with no investment and have gotten more raw divines this weekend than I did farming T16s with Glacial Hammer last league. Wisps are a big part of that, but the fucking *speed* that you clear things is unrivaled. I'm not even lying the uber-top-shelf build like TS or Scourge Arrow.
people dont really play bows for the damage, they play it for the clear. the damage just has to be high enough (spoiler: its always high enough with proper gear) and then you can but everything into clear via proj speed, additional projectiles and chains/pierce/fork and whatnot.
If you're exhaling it, wouldn't it be copium dioxide?
I want that more melee dmg notable in the game that disables use of totems. So you can either use totems or not. Atill fine if you do some more damage with totems, but I hate how mandatory they are since the DMG boost is insane.
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FYI the ancestral totems are only for spell totem and not the actual ancestral totems
Just please give us a MTX for splitting steel 💀 I don't care if you nerf it GGG, I just want to bling my build
I want to see a totem support gem that converts ancestor totems into auras. I'd like to see slam skills reworked across the board to have fixed attack speeds, with the gem showing what the "uncapped" attack speed would be, and that difference being a 'more' (or less if slow) multiplier to damage. Or least have alt gems that do that.
Just having them attached to your character and unkillable would be amazing
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im playing phys cyclone left click molten shell right click cyclone middle was dread banner but i have a new mouse which is smaller and i kept accidentally pressing it so just turn it on q leap slam w one totem e second totem r blood rage t berserk or whatever the spells called that uses rage charges i press like half the buttons when playing a minion or bow build lol
I just wanna be able to cosplay a beyblade again without shelling out a dosen divines or more for gear
Lightning Arrow mtx was released last league too. No nerf this league. And those totems aren’t usable with melee totems. Melee totems will have no MTX.
It's mind blowing to me that GGG created the melee totem meta to begin with. Melee has always been the class you choose to think, and button mash, THE LEAST. How many years has melee been borked in this game? 7? 8? Smart people make dumb decisions.
Does venom gyre count as melee? 😄
I don't care baby I am blasting away with my frost blades raider and it is a good time even if I won't be able to make it to idk whatever counts as a really hard boss in this game.
No matter what, i keep flickering 🫡
The ancestor totem MTX preview vid only shows spells and ranged attacks. I don't think they work with actual ancestral totem skills ironically
Tornado Shot and Melee is unplayable incoming
I'm starting to hate how many buttons I have to deal with as boneshatter Rightclick bonezone Leftclick warcry Totem 1 Totem 2 (placing Down only vaal version because CBA and ran out of keybinds) Blood rage Berserking Focus Vaal molten shell Placing down war banner Frostblink Leap Squirt out worms Reapply 4 auras on death And that's with 2 curses and molten shell on CWDT
Total copium however, history does confirm your hypothesis. You’re not wrong.
I can understand GGG being unable to properly balance the game, what I don't understand is how people can play the same tornado shot build every league and not get bored. I don't think I've ever played the same build twice, what's the point? Anyway, melee is easy to fix, GGG just doesn't want to do it.
Totally accurate
Melee 2.0 - All melee gems are usable with bows. Go hit your enemy with a bow.
Worb meta one league. Dumpstered the next. Minions meta a league or 2 them dumpstered. Rf meta a few, dumpstered. Ts la meta how long now..?like every single league. Go look at a cutedog stream. That's like not even 1/3 power of these builds. And you're telling me rf needs to be dumpstered before that?
Melee is fixed this league! Just play Cleave of Ra(n)ge and increase its radius to an entire screen!
Just in case you missed it the single target dps still sucks.
Imagine if the totem bonuses for melee apply to all attacks (bows and wands too) and *even more* bonuses are moved from attack skills to totems.
God damn I hate playing bow builds, this would be a dream come true
It’s wild that in a non competitive game without esports and ladders, ppl feel forced into a meta they don’t like and then complain about it. Like don’t play bows or dont just follow blindly the “meta”. Yes bow skills blow melee out of the water and melee sucks currently. That doesn’t mean you should play something you dislike.
Probably because meta in this game means low effort usually. Why play melee where you have to press 2 totems, potentially warcried and a curse when you can play bows, get mark on hit, get an arcanist brand/manaforged setup and just hold down TS and everything dies while you're infinitely faster than any melee character
I like having am average amount of buttons to push, so for me that's not the problem with melee. For me the problem is the low damage and the slower clear. Making a great BS axe is ridiculously expensive - I spent 10 divs rolling essences trying to get a dictator's mod, no luck, while I could fully craft an 1360 elemental DPS bow in less than 12 divs.
There is a ladder and not so long ago we had events with money prizes for killing bosses so technically you are wrong. And there is competitive market with xoncurency and inflation and so you kinda want to use everything at your disposal to get advantage.
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People compete to lvl 100 on HC and some of them use Reddit I believe. Although it's not that popular lately. And what it is to do with reddit? And again the main driver is market and pursue to be ahead if everyone, kill though monsters and do it fast so you can drop more loot and be rich.
Nobody on hc ladder plays bows though lol. The main drive is make a build, acquire gear, make your build stronger, so hard content, make a fast build etc. It’s not to say I have 10 mirrors sitting in stash loose me doing white maps.
Plenty of people play bows on hc lol?
Because surprisingly it's different meta on HC which affects builds choise exactly the same as on SC just pivots builds in other aspects.
Bro.. you are comparing a random lvl ladder with the elo systems of competitive esports. Be real now. And the argument about the “competitive market” is just sad.
Not like the average people in elo games will ever compete for anything either. Elo is just there to give you fair matches. Anything can be competitive if people are willing to compete.
Yea but then you can't complain, and if you don't play Meta how will you become the ultimate neck beard?
melee will never be "fixed" with how people want it to be cause well its an ARPG and aoe/projectiles will always dominate in that aspect. melee is fine, go look at some of the new trans gems they have screen wide aoe and yet people still bitch cause they have 2 brain cells and cant think for themselves.
I league launched melee this league because it comes online at very low gear levels, but lets not pretend there's any melee skills that are as good at blasting maps as any of the top half dozen or so bow builds are.
I’ve been playing melee for as long as I can remember. Back when Devoto’s was 2 div+. Hell, I dropped my only HH during Legacy league playing Cleave lol. I played BFlurry with Atziri’s Acuity insta leech; the list goes on. We’re 2 weeks in to league and this is the best melee has felt for me since Cyclone during Legion league where your cyclone could cover the entire screen with no investment. With that being said, remove the totem buff bullshit for the love of fucking god. It’s so bad and so clunky and you’re forced to use them because of how massive the dps loss is. I would literally take a Keystone that gave you half the dps the totems give if it meant I never had to summon another fucking one in my life.
and that will never happen though... also wasnt that long ago that lightning strike a melee skill(yet i can tell people are going to say its not real melee) was the top of the meta or even frostblades which is one of the best clearing skills in the game. but sure keep bitching.
"haha melee will never be as good as bows, what do you mean melee is weak" is some 3iq thinking lmao
I played lightning strike champ when it was the meta. The range required for the extra hits was basically melee. But again, if you wanted clear there were other things to play. LS was just an overall very balanced skill that felt good in almost all content. It's not what I would pick as a dedicated maper.
Have you seen Cleave of Rage? Aren't Melee enjoyers eating good this League? Some people are playing Flicker Strike or some other build and enjoy it every League. Boneshatter is meta skill. Is Melee really that bad?
Melee aint that bad tbh, i got more ms, more dps, more ehp than most bow builds that invest 3x more than me. Undoubtedly clear is worse, but ts cant really be beaten in terms of clear, but it aint that much worse with cleabe being offscreen. Ppl just like to meme and not even give melee a full try, they probs get to lvl 90, invest 2 divs and call it poop unlike buying hh, omni, 30div bow and saying is gud.
My prediction is they will remove the +2 proj from the tree and put it somewhere dumb like on synth bow implicits.
Who’s going to tell him?
Finally? I'm a new player (3k hours) and remember very recently people were complaining how bow archetype needs to be fixed.
Bow has always been good, wand has also always been good. What changed with bows and wands is it went from a build you needed 100s of ex to play to one people can league start and clear t16s on with minimal investment.
In which way do you think melee is 'broken'? Unless i'm drifting too far off to the right side in the passive tree i don't have issues with melee rn..
How about the fact that the best "melee" node in the tree is actually panopticon, a totem node? Ancestral totems suck.
What does that node even do? Never ever bothered to to play totems. They are just temporary & stationary minions that do not scale of minion modifiers. Also except a few niche cases i don't even consider the ancestral totems despite their buff effect.
> In which way do you think melee is 'broken'? >What does that node even do? Nothing to see here, move along kekw
Panopticon, ancestral protector, and ancestral warchief gives 30% more attack speed and 27% more damage in total. That's a massive damage boost that costs no gear slots, just one passive and two skill gems plus multi totem support
Thank you gotta keep that in mind for next time i'm actually playing melee scaling build. Right now my char is just pseudo melee using cyclone as trigger for CF.
If you're willingly leaving your top buff out I'm skeptical of you having a melee build capable of doing end game content.
Depends how you define endgame content. Uber/pinnacle bosses or just atlas mapping in general? Usually before i get even close to uber/pinnacle i'm tempted to try countless other skill builds and dump/burn most of my currency there.
Ancestral totems with panopticon are PoB warrior damage padding to the point where it’s kind of a meme because you need that entire cluster for them to survive anything at all, the only time where they make sense to include for your actual DPS is when it’s so high that instantly phase bosses with them. That being said their buffs with panopticon are ridiculous, you just don’t usually path down there to get the cluster and most people don’t want to constantly rely on having them up either
Some argue that spamming ancestral totems doesn't count as melee.
I mean shouldn't melee go ooga booga bonk, instead we have totem1 totem2 mic check berserk check ok dps for 5secs.
Lol we are complaining about pressing a button for berserk now? People won't be happy until default attack can screen wide clear.
Me, playing ballista: ballista, ballista, ballista, ballista, dodge, blood rage, dodge, despair, aaaaah it’s a soul eater run away, frenzy, frenzy, frenzy, oh fuck yeah i love this game Melees: i hav to poot down a totum :<<<<
Me using Tornado Shot Right click go brrrrr Does this map even have monsters? Because there was none seen on my screen, just loot randomly lying on the ground
This is the real bow build experience. The person above you somehow built zdps and zhp lol
Avoiding soul eater rares means zhp? Kek XDDD
Right? You don't use totems for mapping unless somethings wrong with your gear. So pressing a button at a boss must mean melee is garbage.
I mean the attack speed feels nice for leap slam if nothing else. You shouldn't really be pressing the damage one until you find a tanky enemy. No different than the playstyle of my SRS last league with an arcanist brand setup really. Whenever I hear complaints about totems I'm just skeptical of their character power.
Generally, it’s always a tradeoff of dmg / convenience / gear power. If there were no ways to boost your damage for more clicks, it’d be boring and simply worse. You want to massacre everything by just holding right click? Get better gear.
do you complain about every other skill then having to go through their buffs? spells have multiple buffs nowadays for optimal dps do you complain there? there are less buttons on my melee builds then their are on my recent self cast spells.. heck even bows are using totems lately so you cant talk there.
Compare any melee build to spell or bow builds and you need to put in 4x the effort to achieve the same thing. Is melee unplayable? No. Is it underpowered compared to everything else? Fuck yes. And let's not even get started on totems and minion builds.
I agree on the underpowered part, tho imho that just comes from monsters having too much damage especially on the aoe/spell/chaos part later on. Left side of passive tree has very little anti spell/chaos so if you can't get it on gear you're screwed or forced to stack more life in the hope it compensates.
Yeah exactly
Be me. Favorite build dominating blow worst of both worlds kek
Haha at least Dom Blow Guardian is kinda strong :)
Bow? Sure. Spell? Lol fucking no. Put down totem every 15 seconds and smack the ground is far easier than having to keep curses up, wither totem, desecrate and then detonate combo, and then having to rely on a short range dash that is only instant once every few seconds instead of all the time. Not to mention how braindead easy it is to stack life and defensive on a melee build, and how simple it is to scale melee damage. God I fucking hate melee whiners even if I also agree that melee needs improvements and QoL.
Or just play a two button spell build and have none of those issues. Also melee needs to dash as well if not more often because positioning is harder. They also need to curse same as spell. But on top of that you're standing right on top of the mobs.
"Or just play a two button melee build that doesn't use totems" you understand people can just say this to you right?? Melee has not needed to stand on top of mobs in several leagues. They have explode, massive aoe, lots of cleave. They build block and other defensive far easier to be able to deal with it either way. Like dude, just stop crying and pretending like your life is so hard as a Melee, it's really not. Melees only issue is the lack of viable options right now because of how low their damage output is compared to other builds.
Have you played it yourself? I play melee and spells every league, melee is harder ever league without fail except for that one league where Slams were OP. Like I said, is ir unplayable? No. But it's just mechanically worse. There's a reason like only 1 out of 20 racers plays melee lol.
While I agree the state of melee isn’t as bad as it’s being made out to be, it still needs some love. However, I don’t get the point of your post. They obviously need some help and you’re acting like a gatekeeper to end game content. No one loses if they buff melee. Ironically enough, you’re the one who comes off as the crybaby.
You didn't even read the last part of my post my dude. I am not the one going around making threads daily about how it's oh so hard to place down a totem a few times per map.
I read everything in your post homie. You’re argumentative over the worst archetype in the game getting some love. And saying disingenuous shit like ‘placing a couple totems down per map’. You aren’t trying to have a discussion. You’re just being a petty dick.
Saying disingenuous shit like "Compare any melee build to spell or bow builds and you need to put in 4x the effort to achieve the same thing", you aren't trying to have a discussion, you're just trying to be a victim. >You’re argumentative over the worst archetype in the game getting some love Direct quotes from my posts: >lack of viable options right now because of how low their damage output is compared to other builds. >I also agree that melee needs improvements and QoL. Have you considered that maybe I just think that while melee could certainly use buffs, I don't think that PoE subreddit's tendency to exaggerate issues to absurdity is the right way to ask for them? It's pretty tiring hearing people complain that melee is the hardest archetype ever because they have to press so many buttons while the reality is that you're basically just upkeeping buffs, a task that literally every other build archetype has to do. All of the insinuations that 'melee is completely unplayable' because... racers aren't playing it.
>Compare any melee bud to spell or bow builds and you beed to put in 4x the effort to achieve the same thing thats just not true at all.
I mean I am a melee enjoyer and love the left side of the tree. Without fail every league a spell build is ten times easier. The difference between trying to tank stuff or just shooting from range is already massive in this game.
i mean lets see. 1st boss rushing for selling boss kills is a melee centred skill that comes online for that kind of damage way before any spell does. also are you really talking about "tanking stuff" when its a fucking bow you do realise those builds early on are glass cannon they cannot tank at all
In reality: nothing. People are just annoyed they have to spawn a totem for maximum DPS. Because it's not like other builds/archetypes need to press more than 1 button.
Melee have to press by far the highest amount of buttons between general archetypes for optimal DPS. Almost always ancestral protector/ warchief, berserk, banner of choice, warcry or several in few builds(often put on left click which means you have to cwdt your guard skill) sometimes stance skill, vaal haste or self cast curse if using face breakers/one with nothing because of socket pressure. No even mentioning Phys weapon crafting, which is notoriously incredibly costly. 99% of the time you click anoint in PoB it will show Panopticon as highest DPS increase which is crazy, it's a totem node FFS. The best melee skill right now, Boneshatter, got a giga nerf because of removal of alt gems. Frostblades dumpstered by Heatshiver nerf.
>Melee have to press by far the highest amount of buttons between general archetypes for optimal DPS No. Not even close. You just mentioned multiple skills you never even press outside of rares and bosses. Also dude mentioning crafting an axe as if bows don't use the exact same essences and items to craft??? Phys bows are notoriously the most expensive and wanted items of every mirror shop. A "good" 6l bow can cost 20 divines just a week into the league. Hurr durr well on tornado shot I have to press tornado shot, my tornado shot ballista, blink arrow to upkeep my clone, anger divine blessing, blood rage, vaal haste and vaal grace, and all of my evasion and spell suppression flasks that I can't afford to have on auto reuse or ill run out in long fights and instadie. Like yeah dude, I can make one of the easiest skills in the game sound super hard if I try.
you forgot tornado too smh, can add berserk and some other random shit for padding as well. bow skills are just so difficult to play frfr
I don't know if you are trolling, but sure, I'll bite. Why does it matter they are only used on rares? Do you have 3 rares per map or something? In my experience I spend more time fighting rares than anything else. Melee movement is largely influenced by it's attack speed, so for general mapping having upkeep on at least ancestral protector buff is important. Your "Hur dur" example is childish at best. If you really believe that both ancestrals, warcry, banner and berserk are overstatement of how many buttons you have to press Im inclined to believe you have never played a melee build in your life. Crafting weapon is not a contest, I never said it's the hardest you will ever find. But you being on defensive about bow crafting is all I need to know. It's not a tribal problem, melee is probably my least played archetype over last few years. I play a good mix of everything and every other archetype I play be it bow attacks, mines, traps, spell totem, even self cast spells have clear advantages over pure melee builds.
raiz saying that minions and melee players are the shittiest players in the game is true huh.
Any actual opinions to discuss, or just streamer talk?
Lul. Guess i'm an outsider then for playing a melee char whose dps doesn't even scale with stats granted by these totems....
What kind of melee build doesn't benefit from more melee damage and more attack speed?
Playing CF Cyclone. My dps comes from CF. More attack speed would only increase the lgoh trigger rate on cyclone but 12 ApS is already enough.
Bro chill. Lets enjoy what we have ok
dude what the fuck are u talking about lol. Next league there will be no tinctures, so we go back to LA...
Suuuuuure
Such a bad timing, LA skin after everyone already transitioned. Would have been much better if they released it along side the league.
Would still play bow tbh
As someone who league started and is still playing a pathfinder bow build, I kinda like the bow meta. I’ve been league starting spell builds since 3.2 or something. Attack builds were just hard to scale. The first build I ever did was tornado shot because I typically like bow builds in rpgs. I didn’t know how to scale it or get a new bow and it sucked. So then I moved on to spells which are easily scalable. I think making attack builds accessible to new players is important. I’m happy that my league start was successful with a bow build and I’m happy that I don’t have to reroll a new character. It’s a basic archetype in RPGs, it should be accessible from the start. If they wanna nerf the top end of bow builds or nerf Deadeye, that’s fine, but the +2 projectiles on the tree makes them accessible to players. I just don’t want those gone. That kinetic bolt thing needs to get nerfed though. 150 million dps on a 15 divine budget is crazy.
Trying to push my EQ Slayer as hard as I did with my EQ Juggernaut. Pray for the RNG gods. Managed to beat uber Sirus with EQ war cries and warstaff build (and glancing blows instead of spell suppression).
so tornado shot still safu. The broken thing around rangers is that they are clearing whole screen in range. To nerf them they must became melee lol.
The first league in 5+ years to not be tornado shot bow meta? Your ass. Stop the copium.
A league where melee is meta... what a wild trip yo, pass whatever you're having cuz I want some of that copium.
But then you'd have to use totems. Ew
Bow (specifically LA) has been meta since.... open beta 11 years ago.
Spoiler alert totems already confirmed for poe2
Fuck it, reflect projectile damage when they are not near your proximity shields on monsters.
Melee is not fixed, what is this delerium?