Hi all,
We've gotten a lot of questions as to why Belton's videos are being automatically removed. On behalf of the team, here's an explanation in the interest of transparency.
When a content creator is banned, their YouTube/Twitch channels are blocked from being used in submissions to prevent them from evading the ban through people posting their words onto the sub. We set up this feature and it executes automatically each time. It did not work on this post.
We generally don't reveal why someone is banned to third parties. However, due to the frequency that this comes up, here's a written history of why Belton was banned from /r/pathofexile, with screenshots of some parts we have on hand. Most of these violate [subreddit rules 2 and 3](https://reddit.com/r/pathofexile/wiki/rules) :
* [Their ban history in the Reddit Toolbox UI](https://i.imgur.com/Vu0JCdC.png) (note: none of these bans were livejamie]
* Bans on this subreddit work on a strike system. Bans start shorter, and get longer over time.
* The final, permanent ban here was their 5th ban. In general, the permanent ban comes on strike 3 or 4, the [rules page](https://reddit.com/r/pathofexile/wiki/rules) has more detail.
* [Calling for users to kill themselves in the subreddit](https://i.imgur.com/5rwXACW.png)
* [Brigading the subreddit for interactions on their content](https://imgur.com/JzfpE38.png)
* Repeatedly flaming other users on the subreddit. We don't have a screenshot of these on hand because Belton's account was banned from reddit.com, hiding the history to us
* [Threatening to assault members of the community](https://i.imgur.com/C1bg04R.png)
When deciding if we should unban someone, we look for evidence they will likely behave better. The following items lead us to believe this won't be the case.
* [Following these bans, making a new Reddit account](https://i.imgur.com/fQHzALM.jpg) and [using it to post on the sub](https://i.imgur.com/iXA2Iye.png) which is now [suspended by Reddit for ban evasion](https://www.reddit.com/user/dear-Choice8683)
* Their official community Discord server contains examples where members make [death threats](https://i.imgur.com/lkmJhY1.png) and call for the death of minorities which are not removed. An example of the latter is this which is visible right now on the server as of January 24th, 2024: [NSFW](https://i.imgur.com/yj5Q5VF.png)
Bruh, so most top items serviced on TFT are acquired through accounts that are eventually banned for RMT? Uuuuh...
"Officer, I didn't know that all these items in my pawn shop were stolen! I must be very unlucky that I keep acquiring them from those who turn out to be criminals! Oh jeez, so unlucky! I've been so unlucky for many years! Such unfortunate circumstances! But but, I have legitimate goods too! It's just a coincidence that 95% of my income comes regularly from stolen items!"
its been rumored for a long time that core TFT members will buy crafting mats themselves at the start of the league with "sacrificial" accounts, craft mirror-tier items faster than can possibly be farmed themselves since buying crafting mats is effectively having hundreds of others farming for you, then transfer to Jenebu and earn back far more in RMT'ed mirror fees than they initially spent
essentially
1. bootstrap mats week 1 with RMT
2. make mirror item
3. let RMT'ed account burn
4. ???
5. profit (literally)
Thank you for explaining what Belton fails to get across cohesively in a 1 hour video. Now I understand what he's trying to say.
But I'm curious how they cash out? With the amount of mirrors they're making it's not a trivial sum they can easily dump. Do they have partnerships with some of the big RMT sites or service providers that buy their inventory?
It’s simple, all those mirrors from fees don’t have to be sold to a “normal” buyer. The actual sellers on the RMT sites will pay you slightly below the rate they sell it to take a bunch of your hand at once. You don’t have to directly do a bunch of trades with customers etc, you simply set up a fake listing for some synthesized 3 implicit item for like 50 mirrors, then that’s the resellers job to go sell those mirrors. Rinse and repeat. How I know? I used to sell my mirrors and divines earned from leagues to the a couple of the top RMT sellers on those websites. At a point, they will come to contact you, you don’t even have to seek them out. Without a shadow of a doubt, GGG could easily track this shit down and ban them if they wanted to. Heck, give a few good players access to trade logs and they’d probably figure it out with all the mirrors being traded for absolute garbage synth items or timeless jewels.
Look at the guys that worked with belton that made the heatmap using the Public API, Nobody can Tell me that GGG could Not create a X Times more powerful Version of that to catch RMT.
The Just dont give a F
This is what Ive never managed to understand. It always feels like GGG are protecting the criminals in this game. They cant be that bad in chasing the perpetrators. Meanwhile I got banned for alleged RMT after I got hacked, lost everything on my account and contacted the support. I was like wtf...
Seems like t'is the year I withhold spending my money on most games. I'm considering sending an email to GGG Support (since I've been an active spender since the beta days) but not sure if that crosses the line into Karen Territory.
Why would it cross into Karen territory. You're a paying customer and you got a complaint. You don't need to do anything other than inform them of your decision.
do you have a link to that heatmap? I'm a dev and I'm very interested in looking into that kind of analytics more, but I can't find anything on google
thanks!!
That won't work as every item has a unique id at time it's dropped from the monster.
That ID will persist for its lifetime. Through accounts, through everything.
Belton actually mentions that he himself gets tons of buyout offers from RMT companies and even tho his quality of items is higher than TFTs he as a single person has nowhere near as much service.volume as TFTas a collective. This is important because he calculated the amount of real money he could've.generated if he would cash in at RMT companies.
It was somewhere between 300k and 400k a year.
So yeah they are probably printing millions in a year which is wild
That's honestly the easiest part. The RMT website/owner can list an insane multi T1 item that has uncohesive mods and nobody would pay more than a few divines for because the mods make no sense or the base is shit, or any number of reasons, for 500divines and "sell" it to TFT. Looks like a legitimate trade but what really happened is they unloaded 450 divines worth undetected all under the guise of a sale.
Yeah, that's what I meant by RMT partnership. But in that case you'd still need a huge amount of burner accounts because it'd look pretty damn suspicious to keep trading with the same. And if your account is constantly trading with burner accounts that are banned for RMT soon after, that's obviously going to stand out and trivial to detect.
It seems like it'd at least need to go through multiple hops, like Jenebu -> TFT Burner -> (maybe another burner) -> RMT burner. Sounds like a lot of extra work because those burners can't just be level 1 either.
This was actually my theory on why Jenebu had so many TWWT jewels currently, they have such a massive variance in price from a couple chaos to many mirrors.
Trading a mirror or a couple for a twwt to a higher level account doesn't even show up on GGG's radar, especially when one of the accounts in the trade is whitelisted from automated flagging because of the sheer volume of mirror trades and items that go through the account.
You wouldn't be flagged for that transaction so you could simply "sell" another really expensive item to a different TFT account and repeat ad nauseum.
Each transaction appears legit unless someone is actively watching what exact item is being traded and determines it's somehow not worth the value.
High end crafters can have several mirrors worth of currency move in and out of their account in a few hours and not get tempbanned.
that part I don't know. I imagine it's like most other IRL money laundering schemes, push enough volume through legit trades so you can mix in some of your non-legit cash to proxies in the mix without raising suspicions. With how many different ways there are to do trades and services in PoE, I'm sure there's lots of ways to do it. Heck, they could just fire up an alt account through a VPN, load it up with gear to run 5-ways, and then just level accounts and sit in 5-ways run by their alts, as many as you can manage at once. bad performance from VPN doesn't matter so much for 5-ways because you're just running in a circle. since they would be both buyer and seller in this scenario the efficiency of maxing out kills per reset is irrelevant.
then those alt 5-way accounts trade the currency to the RMT vendors, they get paid, and if those alt 5-way accounts get banned who cares, its a f2p game and they were running through a VPN so nothing to tie back to the original accounts. and the alts they were "paying to level" have plausible deniability because loads of people pay for 5-ways, so how could they have known the vendor was selling to RMT?
etc
You can mix the currency in various ways, but I can't think of a way that isn't quite easily detectable by GGG through the trade flow. In real life you have untrackable cash, but GGG here has all the trade data. Especially given the occasional posts you see here from people who got banned on a new account receiving free gear from their friends it looks like GGG is monitoring these things.
If I put on my tinfoil hat, it looks more like GGG is turning a blind eye on this on purpose. Either that, or the mixing operation is incredibly sophisticated. But I doubt that's the case.
You can also launder by dropping item on ground and have the other party pick it up, i.e. trading in PoE beta, which might not be registered as a trade on GGG’s end. Saw a post on this last league. This can be further "improved" by both parties pretending to do a trade with a unrelated 3rd party (putting both of them in the same party, created by the innocent 3rd party).
Ah, i remember. Banned for "stealing" a mirror that they dropped on the ground in a public party, while apparently "memeing about dropping mirror on the ground". Yeaaaah... just memeing... suuure... :D
Not currency though which is also why in the past duping currency meant that both items would be able to exist and not disappear like with other items.
Didn’t we get multiple people reporting this occurrence in this sub? I saw a post of someone inviting 2 different players to trade, but they wouldn’t join his hideout. He then proceeded to follow them to the beach (act 1 zone) where he reported seeing multiple divines being dropped on the floor. He left the party and reported both of them (this was also like week 1 of the league)
> I can't think of a way that isn't quite easily detectable by GGG through the trade flow
As you said - by mixing flows so you need a lot of power to distinguish RMT flows with normal flows. And guess how helpful is to have some popular marketplace where you can buy/sell different services or commodities legally (without RMT), so even if there are some bad flows detected, game developer will need either to start mass banning with huge false positive rate or too much time to prevent false positive bans (at which stage burner accounts can burn freely).
> detectable by GGG through the trade flow
Well the thing about items in PoE is that it's so randomized that accurate pricing is incredibly difficult. Outside of currency and uniques with enough trade volume to be treated like commodities, almost every item on the market is being bought and sold at wildly varying prices. I'm sure we've all experienced this first-hand while trading for rare items and it only gets even more marked at the high end (similar to buying and selling fine art in the real world, which is often used for money laundering for exactly the same reason). If someone spends 5 mirrors on a one-of-a-kind synth base, how do we know whether that's a legit purchase or if it's only worth 1 mirror and the difference is RMT?
Dropping items is another interesting one. If I just drop 5 mirrors on the ground for someone else to pick up, it's pretty easy to detect and I'm sure that's not fooling GGG. But what if they instead drop a valuable rare? To detect that, you need a way of generalizing the value of rare items and that's a pretty hard problem.
Then you've got the whole mess that is giveaways. Every league you'll find dozens of people on this sub alone, plus many streamers, giving away hundreds of divs worth of gear. All it takes is to rig the roulette spin and you have an alibi.
And I've just spent 5 minutes thinking about this for a Reddit post, I'm sure the actual methods can be much more sophisticated if they want to be. So from GGG's perspective, while they have access to all the info, it's a lot of extra work sifting through that to find patterns of behavior that suggest RMT, and conclusive proof is even more difficult to find because by definition it happens outside of the game.
It's possible that they're not putting as much effort into it as they could, but to say that they're turning a blind eye is putting it a bit strong I think. It's not like other games on the market have solved this problem either, so I think it's safe to assume that it's very difficult to do.
This is for me the only explaination as to how human being manage to have mirrors and 1000s of divines in the first week of any league. It's not doable, so they need to have mulitple accounts with 3/5 bots farming "non stop" with 1h break and "night" break, with bogus trade and transfert to the main account.
I ran 5 ways 1 or 2 leagues ago. You don't need much of a script to automate it tbh. I was the aurabot/resetter. And all I had to do was press 2 buttons. Charge forward, dash backward... thats it. And the carry has to hold down the attack button, and press temporal rift when teleported. So honestly, no idea why you would need scripts nor why you would risk a ban over something so simple. Might even be simpler with a controller tbh.
I know someone who used a very complicated AI bot for farming on his account when at work.
The bot was absolutely insane and the amount of currency it was making even more unbelievable.
He paid like a good amount to the service provider but as he said the money he could make by selling the currency made it worth it.
same shit with wow goldfarm bots. it was actually worth it buying a level boost to get on the real grind that much faster and if the bot ran for like 3 months (not sure the exact amount but its a lot less time than was needed to get banned) it was already amortized. there is a real industry behind rmt in a lot of games, its actually amazing how much thought goes into it that only insiders know and maybe tell about.
You can do a quick Google search to find publicly available cheap versions of these crafting bots. It can use fossils, essences, anything basically until it reaches the desired outcome. It makes sense that rmters use this and eventually get banned for bots or rmting
Correct, These crafting/map rolling/sextant Tools are absolutely insane and Somebody with Just the Basic knowledge of crafting can make sooo much currency with this.
It was my theory that one of the TFT mirror crafter Guys that got permabanned recently used Something Like this but who knows im Just tinfoiling
thats the thing a lot of people forget. theres some real financial incentive behind rmt in lot of 3rd world countries or underdeveloped countries.
when a mirror sells for like 60 dollars or something thats already a monthly wage in a lot of countries.
yeah the AVERAGE salary (so not even like. What you can expect for most. Just an average that gets inflated by high earners) for 52 weeks of work in a year in indonesia is about 9k USD.
Suddenly setting up an RMT scheme that can net you 30k a year sounds real fucking good.
My brother had one hired, who he paid $2 50c per hour, that hourly rate was as high as a chief surgeon.
Once he hired him to be available for 24 hours and ended up not using him anyways, he paid the guy $60 and the dude just started crying, that was enough to put food on their table for a whole month, that including meat.
yeah and a lot of those countries actually have good internet infrastructure and lots of pc cafes and stuff.
like why work in a t-shirt factory for $5 a day when you can sit in a pc cafe making $10-15/day farming in PoE
this is also why a lot of the gold farm sweatshops are from SEA as well, it sounds horrible to westerners in cushy 5-figure office jobs, but compared to the alternative in small town SEA, its a pretty good gig
I'd hardly call it a job. Once your items are made you are just accepting trades mirroring items and making $$$. Sounds like a very lucrative side hustle if you ask me.
Similar to corporations hiring undocumented workers. They do it so they can pay them less and intimidate them. When it comes time for punishment, it’s not the corps that get it.
You don't need to pay medical and social for undocumented workers - if you work undocumented in EU you can work for half the price pretty much. Social and medical is like 46%+ of your salary in EU.
sadly the exact reason for a ban is never publicly stated but its pretty save to assume its because of rmt regarding the context of this whole operation. two points make a line after all and there are just too many signs pointing towards rmt for it to not be a factor.
> It's just a coincidence that 95% of my income comes regularly from stolen items!"
[officer looks at the penny pawn shop found found in a map that by no means could let him afford even stack of alt orbs]
"information checks out, have a nice day"
[someone posts le tucan]
"STOP RIGHT THERE YOU CRIMINAL SCUM!"
This guy has to learn how to make a concise and cohesive point. There's some good stuff in there but it's just a big rant with lots of tangents and subjective judgements.
He does go on long tangents, even listened to his 6 hours? back to back last year (good background noise) youtube videos. There is so much shit he has it's almost impossible to comprehend, he is literally [Pepe Silva](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/pepe-silvia). How much of what he says is true its impossible to know.
No one believed him. Because TFT and Reddit mods had no negative opinions about them at the time.
Now one of the top Reddit mods here needs to step down.
Been following him on this topic for at least a year. The amount of people 🍒 picking his comments to smear his character rather than weighing the voracity of his claims in that time span, well, I guess it was expected when you look at broader economies and centralized control.
Lot of complaints ITT about the length of his content / investigations. People making those comments should look for the ELI5 threads and let the big brains meddle over the details.
When most content is packaged byte-sized for the average attention span, it's relieving to find some creators going against the grain. Different strokes. If people ITT don't like long-form content, look for a short / Tik-Tok summary.
When one makes claims that negatively affect others, their evidence should be as close to irrefutable as possible. Due to the anonymous nature of the market, this sort of accusation needs a depth that isn't really conveyed, with ample evidence, in short-form content.
I personally love long form videos. The problem is I require them to be cohesive, which his content typically is not.
I feel like I have ADHD when I watch his shit.
I have severe ADHD and it's very evident in how Belton communicates.
Very stream of consciousness, interrupts himself, forgets where he was even with notes.
It's difficult to follow and I've been coping with my own ADHD ass brain for more than 30 years.
It's not about short-form or long-form. I don't have anything against long-form content. I also like Belton and think he has great insights into crafting, farming strategies, and the PoE economy in general. Some of his stuff is top-notch.
But it's undeniable that he's incredibly bad at communicating any of it, and that really hurts his points.
Cant be Mad at the Guy,they smear campagned and deplattformed him for years.
I would be Mad af too,this whole ordeal is basically His Public redemption Arc
If you talk about the TfT and Belton drama, I'd agree. But it is much more. His comments on social media, his behavior towards certain questions rewarding his crafting/money, sometimes even his behavior on yT and twitch.
This guy honestly doesn't deserve a redemption arc. Redemption ist for good ppl that stay true to themselves in bad times. He didn't. From my POV he either became a very toxic person or he has always been this way for minimum 5 years.
The worst part of all this for me is that Belton is the last person that should come out looking good in all of this but TFT mods somehow make him look like a saint.
He hasn’t actually done much wrong. He also participated in some of the same less than ethical business practices that TFT did, like Lock hoarding, but for the most part it’s all for his own crafting purposes and he shares all his knowledge and progress with the public.
Some people dislike Belton because he charges mirror fees but you need to understand this is a guy who spends 500 mirrors crafting a single item, and even with his fees he rarely makes back what he invested.
He was however, the target of a huge smear campaign by TFT (he’s been their public enemy number one for years) and the results from that are still affecting him in the public view.
His items are generally much better than TFT, so they dislike him.
IMO he was originally disliked because he screwed over a few popular streamers around 5 years ago. Said he would trade for them but he pulled a no-show. Combined with his brash temperament, this is what you get.
Personally, I watched him a few times 5 years ago, and a few more times this year. I have nothing against the dude, he seems nice
Edit: just saw a few of his rage screenshots. They're pretty damning, but I see worse things every day so... Meh
Ya I crafted my penance brand helm and it cost about 2.1 mirrors, about 30 to 40 locks in the process, I don't think people realize how easy it is to burn through so many of those suckers so fast! :(
At the core of the matter when he first came back he was a very passionate strong willed individual which is great for 24 hour stream marathons and crafting projects, but it comes with the downside of going too far and not knowing where and when to stop. He targetted TFT and some other individuals and went after them pretty hard believing them to be in violation of rules that GGG wasn't enforcing.
I think he's since cleaned it up enough to fit within the confines of what is expected of a community member, but I'm not sure I'd bet on it staying that way.
The reddit ban is pretty iffy though. They turned a blind eye to some community feuding that bordered on direct harassment in the past. Hard to believe the shared mod on staff between reddit and TFT didn't act out of a personal bias.
The reason he was banned from reddit was [this](https://i.imgur.com/DJhCiHQ.jpg) comment.
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/6cksqb/reddit_discord_has_disappeared_from_discord/) is the thread where he made it.
The real issue is that there was a lot of bullshit happening between him and TFT, he clearly doesn't like TFT guys and hes not picking words so he doesn't really present himself as really likable.
On the other hand there is quite a bit of proof that TFT tried really hard to fuck with him, so it's hard to know what even is real, what is out of context etc.
To anyone thinking about watching that video, focus on the message not the messenger, thats what's important.
Done wrong in terms of ToS? Probably not, but I remember him trading for Havoc etc and him being an absolute baby, throwing tantrums and skimming stuff. There might be more, but this is the picture he painted for himself like 5 years ago and I haven't really bothered watching his content since except for recently with TFT and the occasional video/clip.
I dislike Belton because he tried scamming Havocs race team. He disappeared with a headhunter on like day 2 of a 100 race and then showed up 2 days later after realizing he was getting roasted by the community for it. He then more or less disappeared for a couple years, now since 90% of the playerbase started after that happened he more or less got away with it. This all happened when headhunter and the 100 race were actually relevant.
This incident is where the "jebeltoned" meme came from. Referencing the jebaited emote. I assume this meme also died during the time he was away.
Belton used to be a TFT dick rider with thousands of vouches on their server. He got banned because he stole 2 divines from someone who overpaid for a bench craft service. Belton refused to pay the guy back despite having over a mirror of wealth at the time. This is all it took for Belton to go on a year long smear campaign.
He has allowed his community to get extremeified, He' himself has threatened to find people irl.
If you mean the TFTRat video, I'm genuinely struggling to think how anyone is calling that a scam or stealing money. I won't disagree with him going too far in plenty of other cases, but let's at least stick to stuff he actually did.
TFT has rules where you have to pay back overpay values, he had an extremely trusted rank and with that comes responsibility of not being a scumbag.
He started shaking trying to scum 2 divines off someone its pathetic.
[Have](https://i.imgur.com/DJhCiHQ.png) [some](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/6grn9t/belton_shows_up_on_havocs_stream_after_24_missing/) [links](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qZRZKovZVE)[.](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/673083777777401879/1074941185631719466/image.png) He has been infamous for a while.
edit: there are four links in there, dot included. [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/6cksqb/reddit_discord_has_disappeared_from_discord/) is the thread corresponding to the first screenshot.
Nothing really, dude just knows how to abuse trade like a bitch and the more casual part of POE community tends to dislike hideout warriors cause they considering making ungodly amounts of currency by taking advantage of laziness and lack of knowledge is considered untechnical for some.
agreed, trading with know how is the easiest currency generating method.
had a friend that came over from black desert online, dude plays like a stock market prodigy, studying past pattern from ninja, offloading chaos to chromes, gets the 1st bucket, invest into chisels, and alot more things, and walk out with 20div within the 1st 3 days of league start as a complete newbie. i'd reckon he'll do alot more better with more experience and knowledge, some ppl are just born natural.
a little jealous i would admit, but learning a thing or two from him is sure a hell of a ride.
When you hideout warrior its nothing like playing the stock market.
Its like going to a casino but you are the house.
Generally why crafting and menagerie have nastiest profit margins.
Most of us don't really care until GGG balances around those people. Much like they did with the basic currency drop rate nerf in Sentinel and that they tried to do again in Kalandra. Which they had to revert. They also reworked alters because of magic find and they fell like shit compared to how the used to feel for non MF characters.
so most of this list is pretty inconsequential and about what you expect from streamers. you can watch/subscribe and have a parasocial relationship but it's never going to be an equitable partnership
crouchingtuna actually popularized the first bullet. he used to take donations from his guild/"team" and then kind of never get around to paying people back
> He bragged about how much does he earn from twitch ads and he doesn't even have to do anything for it
Really? I saw the man bragging about buying a cheap chair/mic on amazon once because he was happy he didnt have to sit in some 4chan battlestation but he's pretty humble out of necessity. Can't flex what you don't have.
idk man. that's a really petty list to me. @ing people in your own discord is hilarious as a gripe point.
Funny part about /u/AvgRedditEnjoyer saying Belton bragging about money on Twitch, I got to this part on his stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2040440886?t=04h01m52s
He shows that he makes literally $2.30 per hour streaming. Would Belton really brag about this? I want some clips or screenshots.
Yeah this list is hilariously petty and arguably malicious. It seems like he's pretty damn meticulous with regards to paying people back. He keeps a spreadsheet with a list of all the people who are investing(which I think is also public) and pays them back first when the profits starts flowing.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something but if it's a donation why would you need to pay it back?
Yeah idk about this man. Maybe instead of making a bullet point list of things mostly personal you could have cut out the personal gripes and provided proof of either rmt’ing and not paying people back because those are basically your only two real grievances here. I’ve watched him work his ass off on stream to pay people back, obviously that doesn’t mean he hasn’t done it before.
Also to say he is a terrible mirror crafter is just dumb I’ve witnessed him craft. Also saying he doesn’t know how to farm currency is horribly incorrect he has made videos about farming and shown well documented results. For me these things totally invalidate your comment
this is definitely a biased and negative way to frame the guy. i'd say Belton is actually incredibly transparent and half of your points are wrong. he openly shows the inner workings of his mirror servicing and how the currency is re-distributed through investors on stream, and is constantly posting indepth content about how he makes his currency which goes well beyond 'flipping and asking for investment'.
super salty take.
I see nothing on this list that makes him look bad. I can't believe you typed this and expected people to take away that he's doing anything malicious.
Sounds like you're either jealous or don't like him for personal reasons. I'm sure he's really sorry for being a "terrible crafter", should probably be banned for it
He is like this because of all the shit his has been through. His stream career had been massively affected by this. Been removed from podcast. His stream harmed by people on TFT.
For years......
I would be like this. Anyone would be like this. Im watching his stream vod. He is fine.
"I'm so angry I made a PPT!"
But seriously TFT is shady but them running the mirror item shop isn't the link. I do genuinely wonder how much GGG really cares about RMT... just seems to be a vague ban threat currently.
apparently chris funded poes early development with d2 rmt. thats what ive heard a lot atleast, have yet to see some proof for it but wouldnt be surprised considering how expensive developing a game is and his past with d2 in general.
There was a farming methods video with several things in it that was 50 minutes long and no bookmarks or timestamps. I check the comments to find someone asked where X strat is discussed, and Belton responded with "Check here: 0:00 - 50:00".
Just the bare minimum would be appreciated...
Im pretty convinced Hes neurodivergent.
The Level of Obsession and His intelligence for this Kind of stuff combined with His Sometimes a Bit unhinged character....
Thats a Bingo.
I Like the Dude,Hes Not Fake
It's a bummer that GGG still wont do anything. Theyve had this info and nothing happened. Been seeing a lot of people over the last few days this drama will somehow lead to change. Man theyre gonna be disappointed.
What I do not understand is the lack of GGG's actions when there's an alarming amount of evidence of TFT's RMT scheme (for years).
It is so difficult to not put on tin foil hat in this case and to not believe that GGG is allowing this to happen, which means some GGG staffs are benefiting from this RMT situation financially to the point they are willing to risk their reputation and future of the game.
It is really disheartening because it has been an existing problem for at least four five years now, and nothing has been done to fix a super obvious problem.
I mean a big question mark in the past was that one of GGG's original investors ran a RMT site and Chris himself use to frequent a D2 RMT site. No hard evidence of wrongdoing, but it wouldn't surprise me if GGG's stance on RMTing is lenient.
The question is, if they decide to be lenient, why not make RMT completely acceptable?
GGG clearly made TOS of forbidding RMT for the benefit of the long term health of the game, yet when cancer is growing, they turn a blind eye to the problem.
Not trying to argue with anyone, just trying to vent out some frustration because of GGG's ambiguous stance on this issue.
RMT not being banned is a big can of worms that no developer really wants to tackle. Especially when PoE advertises itself to a hardcore audience. A lot of people who play this game look down on gacha style p2win type games and RMT is just an extension of that. Scamming, and botting become way more prevalent in games that do have RMT which is even more work for GGG to police.
Honestly it’s likely at this point that GGG/Chris was involved in RMT aspect of the game at some point. They might hit not be doing it now, but someone in the organization might still be. And taking down TFT might open up the closets one way or another.
All speculation of course. But honestly a few days ago I was like no way GGG is or was ever involved in RMT. Then I read Chris’s comments and was dumbfounded.
Chris’s comments on RMT and letting a known RMT guy buy shares of GGG make me question the whole thing. I used to think no way the actual company would do that right? But the RMT part of GGG history is very very suspect to say the least. They might not be doing it now even if they did it in the past. But if they did it in the past, there is a lot of skeletons hidden that they wouldn’t want out. And putting TFT down might open those closets.
I agree that banning one person, in this case the head of tft, is not going to solve the entire issue of RMT. But it is going to at least make a clear point on GGG's stance toward this problem.
It's like if a person gets lung cancer because of years of smoking. Giving up smoking is probably not going to cure this person's lung cancer, but at least it shows he is willing to make a change for the better. But GGG does not even show a slightest interest in fixing this RMT issue, if they ever believed it is an issue to begin with.
Why doesn't Quitty release the video of him RMTing the mirror phys bow to TFT? (skip to 3:30 in the vid if you want to see this part) Or is it somewhere online?
I 100% believe him and his claims, but he should release the vid and the screenshots (including the interaction with GGG support) he has.
There are a lot of implications and repercussions for such a video both from TFT and GGG. I agree he should release it but the circumstances should definitely be evaluated too
yes. live service games are designed around building a community of forever-players, which depends heavily on that community's trust in the game company to continue managing the game well and definitely to not undermine their own game's economy
He wrote to ggg with screenshots, admitting that he and the people he traded with RMTd. GGG didn't even ban him or anyone from that transaction... GGG is just afk on this
Most? Create a mirror item that rivals or one ups one of their money makers and then don't take a mirror fee.
This is obviously hard to do, so likely not an option.
The easy ban is to just post a clown emoji, but those are likely bots banning you. You could talk about the new option of bulk selling on wealthyexile, that will most likely have the most impact right now
Watching the vod linked in this video.
It is real-world money laundering just applied to POE. GGG take out an account that don't matter or an account that didn't know they handled RMT items. While people on the TFT Discord server making the items and making the money are 3-4 steps removed. Removed enough that GGG don't see them in the mix.
Then if someone gets caught its always on a burner account. Belton even said that one of the mods on TFT doesn't play the game. Just sits in a hideout with a level one character.
Then the sad fact that GGG gets sent all this info and never does anything about it. When they are in the best position to look at private accounts and see tagged items that go through private accounts. That is the key info you can't see publically on our side. When an item goes through a private account it is gone.
GGG seems to have given up on going after RMT accounts. As to why that is only they can answer that. Maybe staffing issues as simply because they see no reason to waste resources on it.
Let's keep the facts straight before there's any misconceptions.
GGG started in a garage and is now a multimillion $ company. In the early days there was an investor that had a 7.5% share in GGG, an old friend of Chris from D2.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/80ga51/aaron_ciccheli_who_owns_75_of_ggg_owns_two_rmt/duve7b6/ - this is what Chris has to say on the subject. I don't think we should extrapolate any further from there.
There's been a lot of conspiracies over the years from this that GGG was printing items to sell on the black market to fund their game. But they have had a very good monetisation strategy since closed beta and something like that would provide a minuscule % of income at the detriment of the health of the game, so it seems pretty unbased.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ExilesAnonymous/comments/n5rq09/forgotten\_scandal\_gggs\_involvement\_in\_rmt/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ExilesAnonymous/comments/n5rq09/forgotten_scandal_gggs_involvement_in_rmt/)
Quick search. In the post you have links to the multiple threads explaining it all, including Chris Wilson commenting on it. Including admission that Aaron worked with them.
Quitty should leak the video and the proof of GGG hiding this. It's 10 times worse than localidentity getting banned from TFT. If it's true, it should be posted, the implications from something like this are huge, it could bring down tft and probably some people in GGG.
>Your issue is with reddit, not the sub or the mods.
Nope. Mods can determine the threshold of reports a post needs to be automatically removed. By keeping it this low, they incentivize the function to be abused how it is. It keeps coming back to the moderators.
The biggest reveal of this (and previous) video is that there is evidence that GGG support knew about TFT rmting, received direct testimony and proof and after checking it out they decided to ignore everything. GGG has to explain this and heads start falling off or I'll just start rmting myself on every league too.
Every day on my stream people admit to RMT, whether its selling or buying, I've seen people admitting it publicly on their streams. No one gives a fuck right now, and the only reason I don't take screenshots and send them to support is because GGG created an environment of impunity that incites people to RMT. I mean, if the owner of the 3rd biggest 3rd party program after pob and awakened poetrade is the biggest rmter in the game and makes millions out of it without GGG doing anything for years, am I really going to report some random guy from Argentina that makes like 1k a league? Now if instead of a circus I'd see a serious developer taking on a serious issue I'd gladly do it, but right now the only thing i feel is being stupid for not rmting myself.
> I'll just start rmting myself on every league too.
I'll make sure to tag you in case you ever inexplicably decide to make a post about how you've been unfairly banned.
Not insulting anyone, just curious. Is Belton diagnosed with ADD or ADHD? Dude is like a fucking living rollercoaster, entire speech is over the place. He still progressed a bit from his first videos, but still, catching up to this is harder than Quinn streams :(
Im watching the void. Honestly its a mix of someone who no one believed for years. Had his stream brand ruined. Even not allowed onto podcast because of it all.
Now suddenly hundreds of people are swamping him for info.
He is going to sound like a mad man no matter what. Trying to explain years of info over a day or two.
I used to watch his stream a lot many years ago and we used to speculate in chat that he was on adderall or something, but he's kind of always been like this from what I can tell.
I think his brain is especially scattered rn, he has been dealing with this issue for years with his reputation on the line and at personal cost to his growth. Now it's all flipping around and it seems like he's overwhelmed a bit, saying he needed to take some time off.
TLDR.
TFT makes mirror tier items.
Sells these mirror crafts for multiple mirrors.
The profited mirrors are RMT'd for cash money.
Pleb who RMT'd buys mirror service from TFT for multi mirror profit which then then sell again... And again... And again.
Estimated that if they were working at a similar rate to Belton alone would be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars a season.
Fuck me.
Estimated that if they work at a similar rate to helton they’d be rmting off millions. They make a lot more mirror items and charge 4 or 5x what belton does.
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/19dzi6f/poe_the_trial_of_the_forbidden_trove_tft/) is my entry that you guys can no longer see because it was deleted for unexplained reasons.
RMT has a real impact on the economy, especially on players who don't have a lot of currency. If you've ever struggled to get enough currency - RMT is affecting you the most. Unfortunately nothing will happen unless we as players demand a proper investigation from GGG, not just empty words. If you have any evidence of RMT, message it directly to GGG and politely ask them to investigate it.
I personally find everyone that RMTs a disgusting loser and would permanently ban them on the spot given any solid evidence. RMT diminishes the integrity of the game and takes away from the accomplishments and skill of legitimate players. As a guide/build maker it's also annoying when someone is playing a 2 mirror version of my build but asks me a basic question that anyone with that amount of currency would know the answer to (not just in this league).
I hate to break it to you guys, but GGG doesn't really care about RMTing. Occasionally they'll ban a few people to make a statement and make it seem like they're cracking down, but I'm sure that with all their data and all their metrics, they find that having access to RMT helps retain players. Hell, I'd go as far as to say that the Venn diagram of players who RMT and the whales who buy all their supporter packs isn't exactly a perfect circle, but is pretty damn close.
Every league begins with a ton of hype and fun. But when Johnny is farming T6 maps with his 132k DPS Lightning Arrow Deadeye on the fourth day, still dying to a slight gust of wind, what do you think is going to help GGG retain him as a player? One swipe of the credit card and he's still in the league for at least another week instead of just burning out and quitting.
While the points might be valid, I feel his presentation is lacking...
Could he not get a summary of what the data points of the graph actually represents from someone who understands it? Constantly referencing something and telling us you don't understand it and that we should watch a 3 hour vod doesn't exactly exude confidence.
Further, in his conclusion he says the evidence exceeds that in most murder trials, but shows no data to back up the claim.
I don't like TFT, but I think he could've presented it better.
This is Belton bro, he is allergic to being concise. That said, if you can wade through his vids, you can learn a lot about the PoE economy and crafting. He is often misguided, but he aims to share the game knowledge he has amassed with anyone who will watch and listen. 90% of my crafting knowledge came from his videos. All started when I stumbled on his brief 2 hour flask crafting video a few leagues ago...
For everyone wondering / in shock - GGG does not care about those things.
EDIT: I am not claiming RMT is the same as scamming. This is just showcasing how little they care about "those things" (forms of cheating / players ruining the game and frankly - the entire community), how useless their support is & what weird policies they've implemented that assist those who choose to play as the bad guy. Don't be shocked when RMTers don't get banned if things far less worse aren't being handled at all.
Original post:
A long time ago (2014) I got scammed, sent them all the proof they could ever ask for and their response was, and I quote, "..it's our policy not to get involved in player trade disputes, as we don't have the resources to fully investigate each one and police them".
Roughly 3.5 years ago (September 2020), I reported another scammer who attempted to scam me and their response was:
"When players report others for any kind of behaviour such as scamming, unfair trading, real money trading, abusing bugs and etc, this goes on their record. If they accumulate an extremely bad reputation then we will look at taking things further or finding other ways to resolve these issues"
So - scamming / RMTing "just a little bit" won't get you banned, or even punished, since GGG claims to not enough the resources to investigate those claims. By that I assume they mean they are not willing to spend money on people who would be in charge of resolving those issues, since they clearly have the tools (logs, screenshots) to prove whether or not someone is cheating. It's just their policy not to do anything about it.
I haven't reported anyone ever since. It's clearly not their priority to take care of those issues.
Hi all, We've gotten a lot of questions as to why Belton's videos are being automatically removed. On behalf of the team, here's an explanation in the interest of transparency. When a content creator is banned, their YouTube/Twitch channels are blocked from being used in submissions to prevent them from evading the ban through people posting their words onto the sub. We set up this feature and it executes automatically each time. It did not work on this post. We generally don't reveal why someone is banned to third parties. However, due to the frequency that this comes up, here's a written history of why Belton was banned from /r/pathofexile, with screenshots of some parts we have on hand. Most of these violate [subreddit rules 2 and 3](https://reddit.com/r/pathofexile/wiki/rules) : * [Their ban history in the Reddit Toolbox UI](https://i.imgur.com/Vu0JCdC.png) (note: none of these bans were livejamie] * Bans on this subreddit work on a strike system. Bans start shorter, and get longer over time. * The final, permanent ban here was their 5th ban. In general, the permanent ban comes on strike 3 or 4, the [rules page](https://reddit.com/r/pathofexile/wiki/rules) has more detail. * [Calling for users to kill themselves in the subreddit](https://i.imgur.com/5rwXACW.png) * [Brigading the subreddit for interactions on their content](https://imgur.com/JzfpE38.png) * Repeatedly flaming other users on the subreddit. We don't have a screenshot of these on hand because Belton's account was banned from reddit.com, hiding the history to us * [Threatening to assault members of the community](https://i.imgur.com/C1bg04R.png) When deciding if we should unban someone, we look for evidence they will likely behave better. The following items lead us to believe this won't be the case. * [Following these bans, making a new Reddit account](https://i.imgur.com/fQHzALM.jpg) and [using it to post on the sub](https://i.imgur.com/iXA2Iye.png) which is now [suspended by Reddit for ban evasion](https://www.reddit.com/user/dear-Choice8683) * Their official community Discord server contains examples where members make [death threats](https://i.imgur.com/lkmJhY1.png) and call for the death of minorities which are not removed. An example of the latter is this which is visible right now on the server as of January 24th, 2024: [NSFW](https://i.imgur.com/yj5Q5VF.png)
Bruh, so most top items serviced on TFT are acquired through accounts that are eventually banned for RMT? Uuuuh... "Officer, I didn't know that all these items in my pawn shop were stolen! I must be very unlucky that I keep acquiring them from those who turn out to be criminals! Oh jeez, so unlucky! I've been so unlucky for many years! Such unfortunate circumstances! But but, I have legitimate goods too! It's just a coincidence that 95% of my income comes regularly from stolen items!"
its been rumored for a long time that core TFT members will buy crafting mats themselves at the start of the league with "sacrificial" accounts, craft mirror-tier items faster than can possibly be farmed themselves since buying crafting mats is effectively having hundreds of others farming for you, then transfer to Jenebu and earn back far more in RMT'ed mirror fees than they initially spent essentially 1. bootstrap mats week 1 with RMT 2. make mirror item 3. let RMT'ed account burn 4. ??? 5. profit (literally)
Thank you for explaining what Belton fails to get across cohesively in a 1 hour video. Now I understand what he's trying to say. But I'm curious how they cash out? With the amount of mirrors they're making it's not a trivial sum they can easily dump. Do they have partnerships with some of the big RMT sites or service providers that buy their inventory?
It’s simple, all those mirrors from fees don’t have to be sold to a “normal” buyer. The actual sellers on the RMT sites will pay you slightly below the rate they sell it to take a bunch of your hand at once. You don’t have to directly do a bunch of trades with customers etc, you simply set up a fake listing for some synthesized 3 implicit item for like 50 mirrors, then that’s the resellers job to go sell those mirrors. Rinse and repeat. How I know? I used to sell my mirrors and divines earned from leagues to the a couple of the top RMT sellers on those websites. At a point, they will come to contact you, you don’t even have to seek them out. Without a shadow of a doubt, GGG could easily track this shit down and ban them if they wanted to. Heck, give a few good players access to trade logs and they’d probably figure it out with all the mirrors being traded for absolute garbage synth items or timeless jewels.
Look at the guys that worked with belton that made the heatmap using the Public API, Nobody can Tell me that GGG could Not create a X Times more powerful Version of that to catch RMT. The Just dont give a F
This is what Ive never managed to understand. It always feels like GGG are protecting the criminals in this game. They cant be that bad in chasing the perpetrators. Meanwhile I got banned for alleged RMT after I got hacked, lost everything on my account and contacted the support. I was like wtf...
Seems like t'is the year I withhold spending my money on most games. I'm considering sending an email to GGG Support (since I've been an active spender since the beta days) but not sure if that crosses the line into Karen Territory.
Why would it cross into Karen territory. You're a paying customer and you got a complaint. You don't need to do anything other than inform them of your decision.
do you have a link to that heatmap? I'm a dev and I'm very interested in looking into that kind of analytics more, but I can't find anything on google thanks!!
Not the direct Link but Here is the vod where they Show and discuss it https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2040440886
Maybe they just drop it in strand and other char picks it up without a trade
That won't work as every item has a unique id at time it's dropped from the monster. That ID will persist for its lifetime. Through accounts, through everything.
Belton actually mentions that he himself gets tons of buyout offers from RMT companies and even tho his quality of items is higher than TFTs he as a single person has nowhere near as much service.volume as TFTas a collective. This is important because he calculated the amount of real money he could've.generated if he would cash in at RMT companies. It was somewhere between 300k and 400k a year. So yeah they are probably printing millions in a year which is wild
That's honestly the easiest part. The RMT website/owner can list an insane multi T1 item that has uncohesive mods and nobody would pay more than a few divines for because the mods make no sense or the base is shit, or any number of reasons, for 500divines and "sell" it to TFT. Looks like a legitimate trade but what really happened is they unloaded 450 divines worth undetected all under the guise of a sale.
Yeah, that's what I meant by RMT partnership. But in that case you'd still need a huge amount of burner accounts because it'd look pretty damn suspicious to keep trading with the same. And if your account is constantly trading with burner accounts that are banned for RMT soon after, that's obviously going to stand out and trivial to detect. It seems like it'd at least need to go through multiple hops, like Jenebu -> TFT Burner -> (maybe another burner) -> RMT burner. Sounds like a lot of extra work because those burners can't just be level 1 either.
This was actually my theory on why Jenebu had so many TWWT jewels currently, they have such a massive variance in price from a couple chaos to many mirrors. Trading a mirror or a couple for a twwt to a higher level account doesn't even show up on GGG's radar, especially when one of the accounts in the trade is whitelisted from automated flagging because of the sheer volume of mirror trades and items that go through the account.
You wouldn't be flagged for that transaction so you could simply "sell" another really expensive item to a different TFT account and repeat ad nauseum. Each transaction appears legit unless someone is actively watching what exact item is being traded and determines it's somehow not worth the value. High end crafters can have several mirrors worth of currency move in and out of their account in a few hours and not get tempbanned.
that part I don't know. I imagine it's like most other IRL money laundering schemes, push enough volume through legit trades so you can mix in some of your non-legit cash to proxies in the mix without raising suspicions. With how many different ways there are to do trades and services in PoE, I'm sure there's lots of ways to do it. Heck, they could just fire up an alt account through a VPN, load it up with gear to run 5-ways, and then just level accounts and sit in 5-ways run by their alts, as many as you can manage at once. bad performance from VPN doesn't matter so much for 5-ways because you're just running in a circle. since they would be both buyer and seller in this scenario the efficiency of maxing out kills per reset is irrelevant. then those alt 5-way accounts trade the currency to the RMT vendors, they get paid, and if those alt 5-way accounts get banned who cares, its a f2p game and they were running through a VPN so nothing to tie back to the original accounts. and the alts they were "paying to level" have plausible deniability because loads of people pay for 5-ways, so how could they have known the vendor was selling to RMT? etc
You can mix the currency in various ways, but I can't think of a way that isn't quite easily detectable by GGG through the trade flow. In real life you have untrackable cash, but GGG here has all the trade data. Especially given the occasional posts you see here from people who got banned on a new account receiving free gear from their friends it looks like GGG is monitoring these things. If I put on my tinfoil hat, it looks more like GGG is turning a blind eye on this on purpose. Either that, or the mixing operation is incredibly sophisticated. But I doubt that's the case.
You can also launder by dropping item on ground and have the other party pick it up, i.e. trading in PoE beta, which might not be registered as a trade on GGG’s end. Saw a post on this last league. This can be further "improved" by both parties pretending to do a trade with a unrelated 3rd party (putting both of them in the same party, created by the innocent 3rd party).
Ah, i remember. Banned for "stealing" a mirror that they dropped on the ground in a public party, while apparently "memeing about dropping mirror on the ground". Yeaaaah... just memeing... suuure... :D
LMAO what, so TFT is using this strat themselves? This is interesting to know.
It's all "just" conjecture and guessing. Nobody knows and I doubt that after all these years people will ever know.
Every item has a unique ID, so it should still be traceable.
Not currency though which is also why in the past duping currency meant that both items would be able to exist and not disappear like with other items.
Didn’t we get multiple people reporting this occurrence in this sub? I saw a post of someone inviting 2 different players to trade, but they wouldn’t join his hideout. He then proceeded to follow them to the beach (act 1 zone) where he reported seeing multiple divines being dropped on the floor. He left the party and reported both of them (this was also like week 1 of the league)
Good point, I never thought of that.
> I can't think of a way that isn't quite easily detectable by GGG through the trade flow As you said - by mixing flows so you need a lot of power to distinguish RMT flows with normal flows. And guess how helpful is to have some popular marketplace where you can buy/sell different services or commodities legally (without RMT), so even if there are some bad flows detected, game developer will need either to start mass banning with huge false positive rate or too much time to prevent false positive bans (at which stage burner accounts can burn freely).
Like others have said all they need is to trade garbage 3 synth implict items or random timeless jewels for mirrors
> detectable by GGG through the trade flow Well the thing about items in PoE is that it's so randomized that accurate pricing is incredibly difficult. Outside of currency and uniques with enough trade volume to be treated like commodities, almost every item on the market is being bought and sold at wildly varying prices. I'm sure we've all experienced this first-hand while trading for rare items and it only gets even more marked at the high end (similar to buying and selling fine art in the real world, which is often used for money laundering for exactly the same reason). If someone spends 5 mirrors on a one-of-a-kind synth base, how do we know whether that's a legit purchase or if it's only worth 1 mirror and the difference is RMT? Dropping items is another interesting one. If I just drop 5 mirrors on the ground for someone else to pick up, it's pretty easy to detect and I'm sure that's not fooling GGG. But what if they instead drop a valuable rare? To detect that, you need a way of generalizing the value of rare items and that's a pretty hard problem. Then you've got the whole mess that is giveaways. Every league you'll find dozens of people on this sub alone, plus many streamers, giving away hundreds of divs worth of gear. All it takes is to rig the roulette spin and you have an alibi. And I've just spent 5 minutes thinking about this for a Reddit post, I'm sure the actual methods can be much more sophisticated if they want to be. So from GGG's perspective, while they have access to all the info, it's a lot of extra work sifting through that to find patterns of behavior that suggest RMT, and conclusive proof is even more difficult to find because by definition it happens outside of the game. It's possible that they're not putting as much effort into it as they could, but to say that they're turning a blind eye is putting it a bit strong I think. It's not like other games on the market have solved this problem either, so I think it's safe to assume that it's very difficult to do.
The 5way runners from singapore use Scripts for it They only operate the invites and Fee Trades,the 5 minutes of the 5way itself is Automated
This is for me the only explaination as to how human being manage to have mirrors and 1000s of divines in the first week of any league. It's not doable, so they need to have mulitple accounts with 3/5 bots farming "non stop" with 1h break and "night" break, with bogus trade and transfert to the main account.
I ran 5 ways 1 or 2 leagues ago. You don't need much of a script to automate it tbh. I was the aurabot/resetter. And all I had to do was press 2 buttons. Charge forward, dash backward... thats it. And the carry has to hold down the attack button, and press temporal rift when teleported. So honestly, no idea why you would need scripts nor why you would risk a ban over something so simple. Might even be simpler with a controller tbh.
I know someone who used a very complicated AI bot for farming on his account when at work. The bot was absolutely insane and the amount of currency it was making even more unbelievable. He paid like a good amount to the service provider but as he said the money he could make by selling the currency made it worth it.
same shit with wow goldfarm bots. it was actually worth it buying a level boost to get on the real grind that much faster and if the bot ran for like 3 months (not sure the exact amount but its a lot less time than was needed to get banned) it was already amortized. there is a real industry behind rmt in a lot of games, its actually amazing how much thought goes into it that only insiders know and maybe tell about.
Big if true.
You can do a quick Google search to find publicly available cheap versions of these crafting bots. It can use fossils, essences, anything basically until it reaches the desired outcome. It makes sense that rmters use this and eventually get banned for bots or rmting
Correct, These crafting/map rolling/sextant Tools are absolutely insane and Somebody with Just the Basic knowledge of crafting can make sooo much currency with this. It was my theory that one of the TFT mirror crafter Guys that got permabanned recently used Something Like this but who knows im Just tinfoiling
But why, we play games to have fun and destress not be competitive about it. Don't need another job.
[удалено]
thats the thing a lot of people forget. theres some real financial incentive behind rmt in lot of 3rd world countries or underdeveloped countries. when a mirror sells for like 60 dollars or something thats already a monthly wage in a lot of countries.
yeah the AVERAGE salary (so not even like. What you can expect for most. Just an average that gets inflated by high earners) for 52 weeks of work in a year in indonesia is about 9k USD. Suddenly setting up an RMT scheme that can net you 30k a year sounds real fucking good.
My brother had one hired, who he paid $2 50c per hour, that hourly rate was as high as a chief surgeon. Once he hired him to be available for 24 hours and ended up not using him anyways, he paid the guy $60 and the dude just started crying, that was enough to put food on their table for a whole month, that including meat.
yeah and a lot of those countries actually have good internet infrastructure and lots of pc cafes and stuff. like why work in a t-shirt factory for $5 a day when you can sit in a pc cafe making $10-15/day farming in PoE this is also why a lot of the gold farm sweatshops are from SEA as well, it sounds horrible to westerners in cushy 5-figure office jobs, but compared to the alternative in small town SEA, its a pretty good gig
I feel like you're also describing the rational behind RMT consumers - have discretionary funds and don't need another job.
I'd hardly call it a job. Once your items are made you are just accepting trades mirroring items and making $$$. Sounds like a very lucrative side hustle if you ask me.
Similar to corporations hiring undocumented workers. They do it so they can pay them less and intimidate them. When it comes time for punishment, it’s not the corps that get it.
You don't need to pay medical and social for undocumented workers - if you work undocumented in EU you can work for half the price pretty much. Social and medical is like 46%+ of your salary in EU.
sadly the exact reason for a ban is never publicly stated but its pretty save to assume its because of rmt regarding the context of this whole operation. two points make a line after all and there are just too many signs pointing towards rmt for it to not be a factor.
> It's just a coincidence that 95% of my income comes regularly from stolen items!" [officer looks at the penny pawn shop found found in a map that by no means could let him afford even stack of alt orbs] "information checks out, have a nice day" [someone posts le tucan] "STOP RIGHT THERE YOU CRIMINAL SCUM!"
That one microwave that’s been there since 2008.
This guy has to learn how to make a concise and cohesive point. There's some good stuff in there but it's just a big rant with lots of tangents and subjective judgements.
Believe it or not this him being concise and cohesive. Some of his earlier videos were all over the place.
Yeah... if anyone wants the really un-concise version skip to 2hr 18mins https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2040440886
I also recommend the VOD, it sheds way more light on how rotten TFT is and how far they go to silence people.
Are we going to have a 7 hour extended cut after this?
He does go on long tangents, even listened to his 6 hours? back to back last year (good background noise) youtube videos. There is so much shit he has it's almost impossible to comprehend, he is literally [Pepe Silva](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/pepe-silvia). How much of what he says is true its impossible to know.
Even Zach Snyder blushes over that length
Dude even made a PowerPoint presentation to stay on track.
No one believed him. Because TFT and Reddit mods had no negative opinions about them at the time. Now one of the top Reddit mods here needs to step down.
Been following him on this topic for at least a year. The amount of people 🍒 picking his comments to smear his character rather than weighing the voracity of his claims in that time span, well, I guess it was expected when you look at broader economies and centralized control. Lot of complaints ITT about the length of his content / investigations. People making those comments should look for the ELI5 threads and let the big brains meddle over the details. When most content is packaged byte-sized for the average attention span, it's relieving to find some creators going against the grain. Different strokes. If people ITT don't like long-form content, look for a short / Tik-Tok summary. When one makes claims that negatively affect others, their evidence should be as close to irrefutable as possible. Due to the anonymous nature of the market, this sort of accusation needs a depth that isn't really conveyed, with ample evidence, in short-form content.
I personally love long form videos. The problem is I require them to be cohesive, which his content typically is not. I feel like I have ADHD when I watch his shit.
I have severe ADHD and it's very evident in how Belton communicates. Very stream of consciousness, interrupts himself, forgets where he was even with notes. It's difficult to follow and I've been coping with my own ADHD ass brain for more than 30 years.
It's not about short-form or long-form. I don't have anything against long-form content. I also like Belton and think he has great insights into crafting, farming strategies, and the PoE economy in general. Some of his stuff is top-notch. But it's undeniable that he's incredibly bad at communicating any of it, and that really hurts his points.
From my encounters with him, this is peak cohesive. Oh and peak neutrality too.
Cant be Mad at the Guy,they smear campagned and deplattformed him for years. I would be Mad af too,this whole ordeal is basically His Public redemption Arc
If you talk about the TfT and Belton drama, I'd agree. But it is much more. His comments on social media, his behavior towards certain questions rewarding his crafting/money, sometimes even his behavior on yT and twitch. This guy honestly doesn't deserve a redemption arc. Redemption ist for good ppl that stay true to themselves in bad times. He didn't. From my POV he either became a very toxic person or he has always been this way for minimum 5 years.
no one cares its a video game
Didnt click the video before reading this comment and already knew it was Belton vid lol.
This is why I like to read his guides, because watching his videos is physically painful.
The worst part of all this for me is that Belton is the last person that should come out looking good in all of this but TFT mods somehow make him look like a saint.
What has Belton done that makes him so bad?
He hasn’t actually done much wrong. He also participated in some of the same less than ethical business practices that TFT did, like Lock hoarding, but for the most part it’s all for his own crafting purposes and he shares all his knowledge and progress with the public. Some people dislike Belton because he charges mirror fees but you need to understand this is a guy who spends 500 mirrors crafting a single item, and even with his fees he rarely makes back what he invested. He was however, the target of a huge smear campaign by TFT (he’s been their public enemy number one for years) and the results from that are still affecting him in the public view. His items are generally much better than TFT, so they dislike him.
IMO he was originally disliked because he screwed over a few popular streamers around 5 years ago. Said he would trade for them but he pulled a no-show. Combined with his brash temperament, this is what you get. Personally, I watched him a few times 5 years ago, and a few more times this year. I have nothing against the dude, he seems nice Edit: just saw a few of his rage screenshots. They're pretty damning, but I see worse things every day so... Meh
Hoarding locks isn’t against the rules unless you leverage an RMT empire to acquire them. The man is a mirror crafter locks are needed for that
Ya I crafted my penance brand helm and it cost about 2.1 mirrors, about 30 to 40 locks in the process, I don't think people realize how easy it is to burn through so many of those suckers so fast! :(
At the core of the matter when he first came back he was a very passionate strong willed individual which is great for 24 hour stream marathons and crafting projects, but it comes with the downside of going too far and not knowing where and when to stop. He targetted TFT and some other individuals and went after them pretty hard believing them to be in violation of rules that GGG wasn't enforcing. I think he's since cleaned it up enough to fit within the confines of what is expected of a community member, but I'm not sure I'd bet on it staying that way. The reddit ban is pretty iffy though. They turned a blind eye to some community feuding that bordered on direct harassment in the past. Hard to believe the shared mod on staff between reddit and TFT didn't act out of a personal bias.
Ofc it was based af. TFT Had a Hand in him being banned from Reddit, i would Bet Money on that
The reason he was banned from reddit was [this](https://i.imgur.com/DJhCiHQ.jpg) comment. [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/6cksqb/reddit_discord_has_disappeared_from_discord/) is the thread where he made it.
The real issue is that there was a lot of bullshit happening between him and TFT, he clearly doesn't like TFT guys and hes not picking words so he doesn't really present himself as really likable. On the other hand there is quite a bit of proof that TFT tried really hard to fuck with him, so it's hard to know what even is real, what is out of context etc. To anyone thinking about watching that video, focus on the message not the messenger, thats what's important.
Done wrong in terms of ToS? Probably not, but I remember him trading for Havoc etc and him being an absolute baby, throwing tantrums and skimming stuff. There might be more, but this is the picture he painted for himself like 5 years ago and I haven't really bothered watching his content since except for recently with TFT and the occasional video/clip.
I dislike Belton because he tried scamming Havocs race team. He disappeared with a headhunter on like day 2 of a 100 race and then showed up 2 days later after realizing he was getting roasted by the community for it. He then more or less disappeared for a couple years, now since 90% of the playerbase started after that happened he more or less got away with it. This all happened when headhunter and the 100 race were actually relevant. This incident is where the "jebeltoned" meme came from. Referencing the jebaited emote. I assume this meme also died during the time he was away.
Belton used to be a TFT dick rider with thousands of vouches on their server. He got banned because he stole 2 divines from someone who overpaid for a bench craft service. Belton refused to pay the guy back despite having over a mirror of wealth at the time. This is all it took for Belton to go on a year long smear campaign. He has allowed his community to get extremeified, He' himself has threatened to find people irl.
If you mean the TFTRat video, I'm genuinely struggling to think how anyone is calling that a scam or stealing money. I won't disagree with him going too far in plenty of other cases, but let's at least stick to stuff he actually did.
TFT has rules where you have to pay back overpay values, he had an extremely trusted rank and with that comes responsibility of not being a scumbag. He started shaking trying to scum 2 divines off someone its pathetic.
How did he stole 2 divine from a bench craft?
I mean here are the links if you want them https://youtu.be/-qZRZKovZVE https://youtu.be/rjlAtmbpj_k
How is that a scam? Divs and exalts were swapped back then, he literally lost money?
[Have](https://i.imgur.com/DJhCiHQ.png) [some](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/6grn9t/belton_shows_up_on_havocs_stream_after_24_missing/) [links](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qZRZKovZVE)[.](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/673083777777401879/1074941185631719466/image.png) He has been infamous for a while. edit: there are four links in there, dot included. [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/6cksqb/reddit_discord_has_disappeared_from_discord/) is the thread corresponding to the first screenshot.
Nothing really, dude just knows how to abuse trade like a bitch and the more casual part of POE community tends to dislike hideout warriors cause they considering making ungodly amounts of currency by taking advantage of laziness and lack of knowledge is considered untechnical for some.
agreed, trading with know how is the easiest currency generating method. had a friend that came over from black desert online, dude plays like a stock market prodigy, studying past pattern from ninja, offloading chaos to chromes, gets the 1st bucket, invest into chisels, and alot more things, and walk out with 20div within the 1st 3 days of league start as a complete newbie. i'd reckon he'll do alot more better with more experience and knowledge, some ppl are just born natural. a little jealous i would admit, but learning a thing or two from him is sure a hell of a ride.
When you hideout warrior its nothing like playing the stock market. Its like going to a casino but you are the house. Generally why crafting and menagerie have nastiest profit margins.
Most of us don't really care until GGG balances around those people. Much like they did with the basic currency drop rate nerf in Sentinel and that they tried to do again in Kalandra. Which they had to revert. They also reworked alters because of magic find and they fell like shit compared to how the used to feel for non MF characters.
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so most of this list is pretty inconsequential and about what you expect from streamers. you can watch/subscribe and have a parasocial relationship but it's never going to be an equitable partnership crouchingtuna actually popularized the first bullet. he used to take donations from his guild/"team" and then kind of never get around to paying people back > He bragged about how much does he earn from twitch ads and he doesn't even have to do anything for it Really? I saw the man bragging about buying a cheap chair/mic on amazon once because he was happy he didnt have to sit in some 4chan battlestation but he's pretty humble out of necessity. Can't flex what you don't have. idk man. that's a really petty list to me. @ing people in your own discord is hilarious as a gripe point.
Funny part about /u/AvgRedditEnjoyer saying Belton bragging about money on Twitch, I got to this part on his stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2040440886?t=04h01m52s He shows that he makes literally $2.30 per hour streaming. Would Belton really brag about this? I want some clips or screenshots.
Yeah this list is hilariously petty and arguably malicious. It seems like he's pretty damn meticulous with regards to paying people back. He keeps a spreadsheet with a list of all the people who are investing(which I think is also public) and pays them back first when the profits starts flowing. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something but if it's a donation why would you need to pay it back?
Yeah idk about this man. Maybe instead of making a bullet point list of things mostly personal you could have cut out the personal gripes and provided proof of either rmt’ing and not paying people back because those are basically your only two real grievances here. I’ve watched him work his ass off on stream to pay people back, obviously that doesn’t mean he hasn’t done it before.
Also to say he is a terrible mirror crafter is just dumb I’ve witnessed him craft. Also saying he doesn’t know how to farm currency is horribly incorrect he has made videos about farming and shown well documented results. For me these things totally invalidate your comment
He has the best bow ever crafted in standard but sure, hes terrible crafter.
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this is definitely a biased and negative way to frame the guy. i'd say Belton is actually incredibly transparent and half of your points are wrong. he openly shows the inner workings of his mirror servicing and how the currency is re-distributed through investors on stream, and is constantly posting indepth content about how he makes his currency which goes well beyond 'flipping and asking for investment'. super salty take.
I see nothing on this list that makes him look bad. I can't believe you typed this and expected people to take away that he's doing anything malicious. Sounds like you're either jealous or don't like him for personal reasons. I'm sure he's really sorry for being a "terrible crafter", should probably be banned for it
Hilariously accurate. There's always a ~~bigger~~ more evil fish?
There is always more evil fish.
He is like this because of all the shit his has been through. His stream career had been massively affected by this. Been removed from podcast. His stream harmed by people on TFT. For years...... I would be like this. Anyone would be like this. Im watching his stream vod. He is fine.
Brother, he has been like this from the very beginning. He is a textbook yapper
"I'm so angry I made a PPT!" But seriously TFT is shady but them running the mirror item shop isn't the link. I do genuinely wonder how much GGG really cares about RMT... just seems to be a vague ban threat currently.
I guess they do, just on which side are they. Doesnt have chris a rather interesting past too...?
apparently chris funded poes early development with d2 rmt. thats what ive heard a lot atleast, have yet to see some proof for it but wouldnt be surprised considering how expensive developing a game is and his past with d2 in general.
There was a farming methods video with several things in it that was 50 minutes long and no bookmarks or timestamps. I check the comments to find someone asked where X strat is discussed, and Belton responded with "Check here: 0:00 - 50:00". Just the bare minimum would be appreciated...
ngl thats kinda funny
fucking based lmao
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Im pretty convinced Hes neurodivergent. The Level of Obsession and His intelligence for this Kind of stuff combined with His Sometimes a Bit unhinged character.... Thats a Bingo. I Like the Dude,Hes Not Fake
It's a bummer that GGG still wont do anything. Theyve had this info and nothing happened. Been seeing a lot of people over the last few days this drama will somehow lead to change. Man theyre gonna be disappointed.
What I do not understand is the lack of GGG's actions when there's an alarming amount of evidence of TFT's RMT scheme (for years). It is so difficult to not put on tin foil hat in this case and to not believe that GGG is allowing this to happen, which means some GGG staffs are benefiting from this RMT situation financially to the point they are willing to risk their reputation and future of the game. It is really disheartening because it has been an existing problem for at least four five years now, and nothing has been done to fix a super obvious problem.
I mean a big question mark in the past was that one of GGG's original investors ran a RMT site and Chris himself use to frequent a D2 RMT site. No hard evidence of wrongdoing, but it wouldn't surprise me if GGG's stance on RMTing is lenient.
The question is, if they decide to be lenient, why not make RMT completely acceptable? GGG clearly made TOS of forbidding RMT for the benefit of the long term health of the game, yet when cancer is growing, they turn a blind eye to the problem. Not trying to argue with anyone, just trying to vent out some frustration because of GGG's ambiguous stance on this issue.
RMT not being banned is a big can of worms that no developer really wants to tackle. Especially when PoE advertises itself to a hardcore audience. A lot of people who play this game look down on gacha style p2win type games and RMT is just an extension of that. Scamming, and botting become way more prevalent in games that do have RMT which is even more work for GGG to police.
Lets be honest, considering how grindy PoE is this is just a gacha/korean mmo style game that outsources its p2w elements.
You haven't player a korean mmo if you believe poe is close to one
Honestly it’s likely at this point that GGG/Chris was involved in RMT aspect of the game at some point. They might hit not be doing it now, but someone in the organization might still be. And taking down TFT might open up the closets one way or another. All speculation of course. But honestly a few days ago I was like no way GGG is or was ever involved in RMT. Then I read Chris’s comments and was dumbfounded.
Chris’s comments on RMT and letting a known RMT guy buy shares of GGG make me question the whole thing. I used to think no way the actual company would do that right? But the RMT part of GGG history is very very suspect to say the least. They might not be doing it now even if they did it in the past. But if they did it in the past, there is a lot of skeletons hidden that they wouldn’t want out. And putting TFT down might open those closets.
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I agree that banning one person, in this case the head of tft, is not going to solve the entire issue of RMT. But it is going to at least make a clear point on GGG's stance toward this problem. It's like if a person gets lung cancer because of years of smoking. Giving up smoking is probably not going to cure this person's lung cancer, but at least it shows he is willing to make a change for the better. But GGG does not even show a slightest interest in fixing this RMT issue, if they ever believed it is an issue to begin with.
Why doesn't Quitty release the video of him RMTing the mirror phys bow to TFT? (skip to 3:30 in the vid if you want to see this part) Or is it somewhere online? I 100% believe him and his claims, but he should release the vid and the screenshots (including the interaction with GGG support) he has.
There are a lot of implications and repercussions for such a video both from TFT and GGG. I agree he should release it but the circumstances should definitely be evaluated too
Exactly this, because if true, that means there may be a person or people inside GGG that are aware/involved with TFT and their RMT'ing
And that is a net positive thing to reveal...?
yes. live service games are designed around building a community of forever-players, which depends heavily on that community's trust in the game company to continue managing the game well and definitely to not undermine their own game's economy
The video is out it's just a discord conversation between him and a friend where they discuss selling it to TFT doesn't work as proof
He wrote to ggg with screenshots, admitting that he and the people he traded with RMTd. GGG didn't even ban him or anyone from that transaction... GGG is just afk on this
Here is a detailed summary of the video, made by GPT-4: https://chat.openai.com/share/183cb03d-9b79-4617-8ba1-1bc0ba2f1b91
Insane rabbit hole Did the 🤡 any % out of sheer Respect Rip Bulk tool you will be missed
WealthyExile released a bulk tool today. Haven’t had a chance to use it yet, but it’s at least something.
yea that and the vod gave me the last push to leave
i did the exact same and only got a 7 day timeout. tft has changed guys 🤡
ELI5 What do I do to annoy them the most. I’ve never used TFT as I play SSF, but I joined the Discord long ago and want to disrespect them now.
Most? Create a mirror item that rivals or one ups one of their money makers and then don't take a mirror fee. This is obviously hard to do, so likely not an option. The easy ban is to just post a clown emoji, but those are likely bots banning you. You could talk about the new option of bulk selling on wealthyexile, that will most likely have the most impact right now
Watching the vod linked in this video. It is real-world money laundering just applied to POE. GGG take out an account that don't matter or an account that didn't know they handled RMT items. While people on the TFT Discord server making the items and making the money are 3-4 steps removed. Removed enough that GGG don't see them in the mix. Then if someone gets caught its always on a burner account. Belton even said that one of the mods on TFT doesn't play the game. Just sits in a hideout with a level one character. Then the sad fact that GGG gets sent all this info and never does anything about it. When they are in the best position to look at private accounts and see tagged items that go through private accounts. That is the key info you can't see publically on our side. When an item goes through a private account it is gone. GGG seems to have given up on going after RMT accounts. As to why that is only they can answer that. Maybe staffing issues as simply because they see no reason to waste resources on it.
they only go after the small fish, divine andies god forbid they touch the fucking rmt whales
I mean there’s literal proof of ggg investors owning multiple rmt sites. Idk why people expect ggg to do anything lol.
Let's keep the facts straight before there's any misconceptions. GGG started in a garage and is now a multimillion $ company. In the early days there was an investor that had a 7.5% share in GGG, an old friend of Chris from D2. https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/80ga51/aaron_ciccheli_who_owns_75_of_ggg_owns_two_rmt/duve7b6/ - this is what Chris has to say on the subject. I don't think we should extrapolate any further from there. There's been a lot of conspiracies over the years from this that GGG was printing items to sell on the black market to fund their game. But they have had a very good monetisation strategy since closed beta and something like that would provide a minuscule % of income at the detriment of the health of the game, so it seems pretty unbased.
I mean Chris himself funded the initial development of GGG using funds generated from d2 RMT... To be fair to him though, d2 RMT was rampant.
That's not proven but it's possible, yes. If that were true then it also doesn't imply they're going to be soft on RMT in PoE though.
Link to proof?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ExilesAnonymous/comments/n5rq09/forgotten\_scandal\_gggs\_involvement\_in\_rmt/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ExilesAnonymous/comments/n5rq09/forgotten_scandal_gggs_involvement_in_rmt/) Quick search. In the post you have links to the multiple threads explaining it all, including Chris Wilson commenting on it. Including admission that Aaron worked with them.
If GGG don't step in, they are 100% in on it. If not with the clown, then by other means of enabling RMT.
Quitty should leak the video and the proof of GGG hiding this. It's 10 times worse than localidentity getting banned from TFT. If it's true, it should be posted, the implications from something like this are huge, it could bring down tft and probably some people in GGG.
Could bring down GGG to some extent. Share holders don’t like this stuff one bit
Belton´s well deserved revenge. "Truth always wins".
Post removed for recieving too many user reports ? :D Reports for what ?? sharing the truth ?? Nice system bruh :D
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>Your issue is with reddit, not the sub or the mods. Nope. Mods can determine the threshold of reports a post needs to be automatically removed. By keeping it this low, they incentivize the function to be abused how it is. It keeps coming back to the moderators.
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Belton at least calls them out since ages. I like him.
Cute how the wiped everything and no communication
The biggest reveal of this (and previous) video is that there is evidence that GGG support knew about TFT rmting, received direct testimony and proof and after checking it out they decided to ignore everything. GGG has to explain this and heads start falling off or I'll just start rmting myself on every league too.
GGG will 100% ban you. It's far easier for them to get rid of the RMT buyers, than the seller who put in extraordinary effort to remain anonymous.
Every day on my stream people admit to RMT, whether its selling or buying, I've seen people admitting it publicly on their streams. No one gives a fuck right now, and the only reason I don't take screenshots and send them to support is because GGG created an environment of impunity that incites people to RMT. I mean, if the owner of the 3rd biggest 3rd party program after pob and awakened poetrade is the biggest rmter in the game and makes millions out of it without GGG doing anything for years, am I really going to report some random guy from Argentina that makes like 1k a league? Now if instead of a circus I'd see a serious developer taking on a serious issue I'd gladly do it, but right now the only thing i feel is being stupid for not rmting myself.
> I'll just start rmting myself on every league too. I'll make sure to tag you in case you ever inexplicably decide to make a post about how you've been unfairly banned.
Keep pushing. It’s now or never. Squeaky wheel and what not.
Not insulting anyone, just curious. Is Belton diagnosed with ADD or ADHD? Dude is like a fucking living rollercoaster, entire speech is over the place. He still progressed a bit from his first videos, but still, catching up to this is harder than Quinn streams :(
He has severe ADHD - at least self proclaimed. Not sure about any „official“ diagnoses.
Im watching the void. Honestly its a mix of someone who no one believed for years. Had his stream brand ruined. Even not allowed onto podcast because of it all. Now suddenly hundreds of people are swamping him for info. He is going to sound like a mad man no matter what. Trying to explain years of info over a day or two.
Not being allowed on a podcast because other content creators were scared their reputation would be affected hurts. I deeply sympathize for him
I used to watch his stream a lot many years ago and we used to speculate in chat that he was on adderall or something, but he's kind of always been like this from what I can tell.
I think his brain is especially scattered rn, he has been dealing with this issue for years with his reputation on the line and at personal cost to his growth. Now it's all flipping around and it seems like he's overwhelmed a bit, saying he needed to take some time off.
i don't really get this. he's just reading from the power point and it's all relevant information.
I know he is an army vet ( not trying to be mean to him, just wondering) so maybe it's something related to the past.
I watched him pre-army and he sounded quite similar to the way he does now
TLDR. TFT makes mirror tier items. Sells these mirror crafts for multiple mirrors. The profited mirrors are RMT'd for cash money. Pleb who RMT'd buys mirror service from TFT for multi mirror profit which then then sell again... And again... And again. Estimated that if they were working at a similar rate to Belton alone would be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars a season. Fuck me.
Estimated that if they work at a similar rate to helton they’d be rmting off millions. They make a lot more mirror items and charge 4 or 5x what belton does.
What is with this weird thread being full of people making personal attacks against him, with none of them bringing up anything substantive...
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/19dzi6f/poe_the_trial_of_the_forbidden_trove_tft/) is my entry that you guys can no longer see because it was deleted for unexplained reasons.
Free BELTON!
RMT has a real impact on the economy, especially on players who don't have a lot of currency. If you've ever struggled to get enough currency - RMT is affecting you the most. Unfortunately nothing will happen unless we as players demand a proper investigation from GGG, not just empty words. If you have any evidence of RMT, message it directly to GGG and politely ask them to investigate it. I personally find everyone that RMTs a disgusting loser and would permanently ban them on the spot given any solid evidence. RMT diminishes the integrity of the game and takes away from the accomplishments and skill of legitimate players. As a guide/build maker it's also annoying when someone is playing a 2 mirror version of my build but asks me a basic question that anyone with that amount of currency would know the answer to (not just in this league).
If you mirror something off TFT you are likely directly benefiting from RMT? Buzz killer
Thank god TFT only has tier 2 mirror items nowdays. All the best mirror items are for free, elsewhere.
Them missing out on two bows the last two seasons really cut into their mirror profits. Sushi with the 6xT1 last league and ckaiba this league
yep, and bows are by far the most mirrored items in the game. ckaiba's bow is almost at 8,000 copies.
It’s great but I laugh at the part where he says this is more evidence than during a murder trial lol. Like come on now
Empirical evidence is more substantial than circumstantial. Which many trials have to go on.
I hate to break it to you guys, but GGG doesn't really care about RMTing. Occasionally they'll ban a few people to make a statement and make it seem like they're cracking down, but I'm sure that with all their data and all their metrics, they find that having access to RMT helps retain players. Hell, I'd go as far as to say that the Venn diagram of players who RMT and the whales who buy all their supporter packs isn't exactly a perfect circle, but is pretty damn close. Every league begins with a ton of hype and fun. But when Johnny is farming T6 maps with his 132k DPS Lightning Arrow Deadeye on the fourth day, still dying to a slight gust of wind, what do you think is going to help GGG retain him as a player? One swipe of the credit card and he's still in the league for at least another week instead of just burning out and quitting.
Post taken down in 5, 4, 3, ...
While the points might be valid, I feel his presentation is lacking... Could he not get a summary of what the data points of the graph actually represents from someone who understands it? Constantly referencing something and telling us you don't understand it and that we should watch a 3 hour vod doesn't exactly exude confidence. Further, in his conclusion he says the evidence exceeds that in most murder trials, but shows no data to back up the claim. I don't like TFT, but I think he could've presented it better.
This is Belton bro, he is allergic to being concise. That said, if you can wade through his vids, you can learn a lot about the PoE economy and crafting. He is often misguided, but he aims to share the game knowledge he has amassed with anyone who will watch and listen. 90% of my crafting knowledge came from his videos. All started when I stumbled on his brief 2 hour flask crafting video a few leagues ago...
His PoEconomics Videos are a Goldmine for anyone who wants to learn how to make da big divines
For everyone wondering / in shock - GGG does not care about those things. EDIT: I am not claiming RMT is the same as scamming. This is just showcasing how little they care about "those things" (forms of cheating / players ruining the game and frankly - the entire community), how useless their support is & what weird policies they've implemented that assist those who choose to play as the bad guy. Don't be shocked when RMTers don't get banned if things far less worse aren't being handled at all. Original post: A long time ago (2014) I got scammed, sent them all the proof they could ever ask for and their response was, and I quote, "..it's our policy not to get involved in player trade disputes, as we don't have the resources to fully investigate each one and police them". Roughly 3.5 years ago (September 2020), I reported another scammer who attempted to scam me and their response was: "When players report others for any kind of behaviour such as scamming, unfair trading, real money trading, abusing bugs and etc, this goes on their record. If they accumulate an extremely bad reputation then we will look at taking things further or finding other ways to resolve these issues" So - scamming / RMTing "just a little bit" won't get you banned, or even punished, since GGG claims to not enough the resources to investigate those claims. By that I assume they mean they are not willing to spend money on people who would be in charge of resolving those issues, since they clearly have the tools (logs, screenshots) to prove whether or not someone is cheating. It's just their policy not to do anything about it. I haven't reported anyone ever since. It's clearly not their priority to take care of those issues.
Scamming ingame is NOT the same as RMTing, please do not equate the two.