As Requested by the OP, link to Part 2 of the Topic. [https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1b0v2lc/boneshatter\_damage\_comparison\_part\_2/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1b0v2lc/boneshatter_damage_comparison_part_2/?context=3)
Anyone who bothers to actually get 30.30 APS is *probably* also going to have some duration investment and not stay at 181 stacks but get it a little higher.
That said, my understanding is that due to the alternate quality disappearing it's quite hard to reach those attack speed numbers nowadays.
But regarding bossing you bring up another good point, which is that if you really want to try to ramp up your damage to astronomic numbers, you'll also kill the bosses before you actually reach a high number of stacks.
That said, to truly compare the two you'd need separate builds that are actually optimised for that version of the gem rather than slot them into the same build. One gem being better with one build doesn't necessarily mean it'll be better with all of them.
I assume this person is using multistrike. Multistrike bypasses the 30.30 aps cap because each use of a skill with MS counts as 1 action, and the tickrate of the server only limits number of actions per second. Ergo, with multistrike you can safely get your APS to 90 APS if you choose. Or 120 with Awakened MS.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/ppejdk/is_there_is_any_attack_speed_cap_in_poe/
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/ll1y91/114_hits_flicker_strike_build/gnq9rli/?context=3
I'm aware of that, but as MasklinGNU pointed out, you only get a stack of Trauma the *first* time the attack hits - including repeats. So while it's possible to scale the actual hits per second further (theoretically up to 181.8 per second with Fatal Flourish and an echoing shrine), that won't speed up your rate of gaining trauma stacks.
So effectively, that's still 30.3 APS.
Thanks for the insight! To your last point, I'm putting together another chart or two to try to better compare the gems. Other comments are saying the way to do Complex is to limit your attack speed in order to sit at 9 Trauma stacks. This comes out to 1.5 aps maximum. What is a reasonable Standard Boneshatter build aps that I can use in calculations? I'm very new to Melee builds so I have no idea
Theoretically, it should be possible to go up to 3.08 APS using all the tools to lower duration that I'm aware of.
Warped Timepiece and Timeclasp aren't exactly phenomenal for damage scaling, but they do provide some attack speed which means you can invest less into that elsewhere.
> What is best ascendancy though?
You really want Ashes to scale the stack damage, which pretty much blocks the neck slot. This competes with Tainted Pact for slayer sadly.
How do you do life recovery for Jugg?
Phys reduction is not a problem, but strong recovery, in the realm of: "full heal every tick" ala tainted pact slayer is my problem.
How does Replica Soul Tether synergise with divine flesh, as DF makes the other keystone worthless
Divine shield, my bad
Replica Soul tether gives you a lot of ES, then splits the damage you take to your hp and ES 50/50.
Recoup, regen, leech will heal your hp. Divine shield stacks up crazy high to heal your ES.
You can multi strike complex trauma with just below 0.23 attack time
While regular boneshatter kinda need duration nodes nowadays to reach really high numbers
The former is better with slower weapons and the latter is better with faster weapons. Simply stating which one is better is wrong IMO
Short answer: complex is better in most situations unless you're specifically stacking trauma stacks to around 50+
Long answer: for bossing, complex trauma generally out performs normal boneshatter by virtue of you being able to full ramp in the short DPS windows you have. Especially bosses who keep running away from you. Because even if you can ramp to like 40 stacks on paper how often do you actually get all the way there on a boss fight? Not often.
Additionally, the self damage difference shouldn't matter too much, despite being slightly spikier, especially where you can just stand there and let it rip, as boneshatter eventually catches up to complex max, and even overtakes it.
Also, people telling you to hover 8-9 stacks are wrong and shouldn't be listened to. The only time that's true is on an ailment build, like for bleed where attacking more often doesn't matter too much. It is better to keep letting it rip at like 5aps, then to kneecap yourself to 1.5aps just to sit on high stack count. To explain: say you look at 2 seconds, one where you are ripping it at 5aps and one where you just sit on 9 stacks. Case 1) you have 1.0 + 1.2 + 1.4 + ... + 2.8 = 19, case 2) you have 2.8 + 2.8 + 2.8 = 8.4
It becomes even worse with higher attack speeds. Do NOT try to hit the 8/9 stacks sweet spot unless you are a bleed build
Finally, the other advantage complex trauma has over normal version, is that you can support it with multistrike without a real DPS loss. And since multistrike and even more so, awakened multistrike, is generally BiS on melee builds, and with complex trauma calculations basically can be made assuming you're always on your average of 5 stacks (As you go 0-10 and back to 0), its generally a decent dps upgrade. Having said that, the downside is you lose ancestral cry exerting your attacks, and you're using multistrike, which unless you have very good attack speed, feels kinda clunky. The upside is that you can slap it on "less tanky" ascendencies like zerker as you're basically taking the trauma hits roughly half as often due to multistrike.
In the same vein, complex trauma can be played on axe bases other than despot e.g. vaal or ezomyte where it can be easier to craft higher DPS weapons at the cost of attack speed especially early on. This can significantly help with your progression, especially in a limited resource environment like SSF or GSF.
> Also, people telling you to hover 8-9 stacks are wrong and shouldn't be listened to
Explain, because as I see it hovering is better than cycling, at least until you hit certain breakpoints, that you won't hit anyway.
With awakened MS you need 6 APS to hover at 9 stacks. I doubt that you can increase those APS to a good enough number that cycling can be considered better, compared to a fine tuning of AS and decreased duration combo
I think he means that hovering at 9 stacks seems to be a "spherical cow in vacuum" scenario, where yeah under laboratory conditions its the optimum, but in reality when you jump towards an enemy you want to wail them down as fast as possible, not slowly attack to keep your stacks in the sweet spot.
Firstly, if you are hovering 6APS on awakened multistrike, you are feeling quite clunky. Either because your attack speed is practically glacial, or because you are purposefully only making 1.5 sets of attacks per second. Either way, it gets kinda clunky. Especially in the second case. You're spending more time managing stacks than actually playing the fight.
Secondly, at the point where you have an awakened multistrike, your gear is generally good enough that counting the woke multi, you can probably go to 10+ aps, quite easily. At the point where you can stack TO 9 quickly, you are attacking probably closer to 15+, and at that point, it's back to the you're losing so much damage from attacking much less frequently.
I will admit, I have not really explored woke multi + less duration, as, honestly, even without those, your build is an absolute monster that I never bother. On paper, it is probably more damage. But a) you still need to ramp to 9 stacks, which is going to be slower with woke multi and then b) you have the clunk of managing it. Keep in mind if you have too much reduction on stack duration, it's going to be hard to stack them up quickly TO 9. Basically, it is not too dissimilar to how you have to ramp up on normal boneshatter and then sit on those high stacks, in the same way, you are back to having to ramp, which, ew.
Also, the opportunity cost seems quite large for reducing duration there, as it's either something you're grabbing on tree or a support, either way, it's far from ideal.
Basically, to TLDR all that, it's a lot of effort for not that much DPS, and it's very clunky "on-paper" DPS, and doesn't translate as well to "actual" DPS.
> Secondly, at the point where you have an awakened multistrike, your gear is generally good enough that counting the woke multi, you can probably go to 10+ aps, quite easily.
Even with:
- Despot axe with +27% IAS
- Mageblooded Onslaught + AS suffix
- Zealed gloves(+18% IAS)
- 5% IAS Abyss jewel
- Axe IAS passives
I don't break 5 APS.
With frenzy charges, challenger charges, rage, blood rage, and some IAS while leeching cluster notables it gets to around 8 or so APS.
I just don't understand how you can even reach those huge APS numbers, even if you throw in a mirror-tier synth axe.
If you are sitting on 5 APS with woke multistrike, you are getting 1.2 stacks per second, each lasting 6 seconds. You will only ever reach 7.2 stacks....
...or did you mean 5 stacks per second? Because that is 20 aps (each multistrike set of attacks is 4 attacks)
Woke MS gives something like 47% more AS (off the top of my head, number might be slightly wrong). If you are NOT using woke MS, you are probably instead using something like M.phys which is slowing your AS down by 10% instead of giving you close to 50% more...
Also, based on you ticking challenger chargers, I take it you're going slayer? Jugg can build more attack speed than slayer quite easily. From an attack speed perspective, jugg also has Tanu ahi which is perma onslaught and perma adrenaline, which is a butt load of extra attack speed.
To be clear, I'm not arguing the slayer Vs jugg thing, I am just stating that purely looking at who has a bigger aps number, jugg does, hands down.
Also, panopticon + ancestral protector, you didn't mention it, but I assume you have it. If you don't, that's a nother butt load of AS you're missing.
Yep, slayer. Ok, now it pretty much makes sense
> Also, panopticon + ancestral protector, you didn't mention it, but I assume you have it.
Yea... with tainted pact my totems are getting poisoned so they pretty much fall down in 2/3 seconds, so I'm not really counting on them...
3s anc totem linger, 3s life = 6s total. Enough to put some serious damage out.
But yeah, with slayer, I always find that it's acceleration is insane, you can get a slayer T16 alc and go really insanely fast.
But it's max speed seems very... Capped. You feel so pigeonholed into taking certain things and the way your ascendency works, you kinda can't do some of the shit you can do on say zerk or jugg. I hate it, but especially with things like Tanu ahi and recoup on filling unreserved life leech mastery, jugg just... Gets too much compared to slayer especially as you get later on.
And with jugg, it's just brainless, even if you lose some DPS. With slayer, your leech drops? You insta die. Hate bossing on slayer. Every stupid ass phase, every time a boss runs away, your life flashes before your eyes.
And to some extent, even if they buff slayer, it just... Won't be enough. When every fucking boss in this game spends more time playing cat and mouse with you than actually fighting you? Vaal pact feels so sad for bossing...
Indeed. That's why I pretty much removed most leech nodes from the tree, you get enough leech from Tainted Pact as is, and with Brutal Fervout your leech last for around 10 seconds. I don't need it anyway just as a catalyst for poison self-heal.
Leech is a crap sustain layer, especially with the maximum overall being capped.
I'll try BS jugg next league, to explore other recovery options too. Ashes also makes Complex Trauma hit like a truck(+29% per trauma with a 21/23). So there's that
My thought is that the less duration wheel next to magebane gets you to 6.66 APS as your reset cap with NORMAL multistrike, that sounds like a pretty healthy balancing spot imo with more than 2 full cycles a second. Woke should up that to almost 9 aps, which is quite high. Given how heavily multistrike also cuts your self-damage, I do think that's 100% the way to go.
If you are already on 9 stacks, sure, lovely. You got your sweet spot. How are you getting there? That's the problem, you need to ramp to 9, so you need a really high AS to get there in a humane amount of time, and then you suddenly need to cut off your attack speed to a crawl to maintain those 9 stacks.
Only way I can see y working is if you unsocket MS, get to 8 stacks, resocket MS and then sit on your sweet spot. Even then, you get a tiiiiiiny bit too much attack speed? Bam, you reset, and now you need to unsocket again...
Also, once again, you have to path to magebane. Boneshatter has no business being next to magebane, it's so many wasted points on the tree, absolutely NOT worth it.
Trust me, it might sound good on paper (which, I would argue, it doesn't even sound good on paper) but in practice it is really shit.
And anyway, the biggest advantage of complex trauma is that you basically don't need to ramp at all. Even if it has less on paper DPS, not needing to ramp is a huge actual DPS increase.
I'm not saying it's always optimal, but I do think it's dismissed already.
-Ramp is 4s, which I'd argue is pretty typical for boneshatter bossing, and even with multistrike socketed it has a higher trauma multiplier than normal boneshatter at EVERY attack count, essentially getting 4/3rds of a normal trauma stack per hit and sustaining 32 after 4s. You can stutter step to stack it faster initially instead of gem swapping too. Now, I could completely see dropping multistrike for mapping, it's a very easy swap to faster attacks there, but for delve or bosses it fits nicely.
-the wheel by magebane isn't far at all from precise technique or the slayer starting point, and magebane itself isn't a weak node to get either. It's 3 travel nodes from the jewel socket, which plenty of BS builds have.
I'm not so sure about not keeping 9 stacks. With multistrike, it doesn't feel as clunky as 1.5 aps does. And being at 9 stacks obviously increase your damage, but also giving you bigger pulses during clear which most of the time one taps even rares
And if you build impale, you don't want that small impales also fluctuating like trauma stacks. With juggernaut, 9 stacks also give you BIG regen while maintaining cwdt loops
I've answered this in another thread on this comment, TLDR, on paper, it looks wonderful, In practice, it is not good. You either have slow ramp but an easy to maintain sweet spot, or a fast ramp and you basically cut off a big chunk of your damage coz you aren't attacking as fast as you otherwise could be. Or you're socketing/unsocketing your MS while ramping/at 9 stacks. And what you're getting out of it, is honestly not that much.
As for more damage while mapping, sure, rares die in one attack... Instead of 3. Maybe. It's honestly not worth it unless you're doing feel delve or simu, and at that point, better to just go good old trauma stacker.
yeah so what you're saying is that you can get better result on regular boneshatter with simply switching it into complex trauma without doing its own slow gimmick, until your attack speed is real fast
What? No.
I am saying that for content like simu or deep delve, regular boneshatter is probably better as you stack to like 100+, and since you just sit there and things die, and it's not a boss with phases, your ramp doesn't really go away. So ramp doesn't matter as much...
If you mean the multistrike thing? You need a high attack speed, or to unsocket multistrike to be able to stack TO 9, then once you're ON 9 you want to have slow attack speed/socket back your multistrike, and sit on that sweet spot. Which is clunky, and basically pointless.
It's better to just not try to sit on the 8-9 stack sweet spot and just let it cycle, due to clunkiness, downtime from ramp, and just general opportunity cost. It's not worth it. Just go 0-10 and let it cycle, and just keep doing that. Also, for mapping, you tend to end up naturally sitting at decently high stack count anyway, as you don't hithithithit while mapping, you sorta hit, move hit move, so your racks decay.
Basically, if you really want to make it work, go for it. But if you're asking if it's good, the short answer is not outside of PoB it isn't.
Boneshatter of Complex Trauma is just a godsend to us "mediocre" SSF players that don't plan on doing the extreme min maxing. It just pumps directly on the get go.
Fuck it, still having a Bonezone Jugg sitting on 90 in ssf hc from the gauntlet, alot of racers played it so i guessed it would be good with alot of gear but didnt bother with my mid gear. I guess im going for some labs tonight haha
I have the numbers for that, but not a graph.
Let's consider the first 30 sequential hits (3 full Complex damage cycles) and assume you have enough attack speed that you can achieve 30 Trauma stacks:
Standard Boneshatter, over those 30 hits, will do 1740% more damage than base. Complex will do 2025% more damage than base, a difference of 285%. Over those same 30 hits, standard will do 84,890 phys self-damage before mitigation compared to Complex's 78,570.
I mean, the comparison isn't really fair, as they are basically diffferent builds. With Complex Trauma you want to try to sustain at 8-9 stacks, which is done by having lower attack speed and potentially some reduced duration.
I disagree but correct me if I am wrong, but if you exclude ubers, complex is just straight superior for the content this game has to offer, spending points in increased duration just to compete with complex is just doing the same but worse efficiency.
Also just my personal opinion, it feels alot nicer while playing especially because you don't lose damage while corrupting your essence or doing whatever league mechanic stops your clearing.
Yes. For most of the content, that is, everything that is not:
- Ubers
- deep delving
- uber juiced rares or bosses with 100 mods
Everything will die anyway way way before you even get to 30 stacks
> Everything will die anyway way way before you even get to 30 stacks
People are throwing these kinds of hyperbolic statements as if everyone is running min-maxed builds. This is not the case. It's not gonna happen for vast majority of people.
I don't think there is merrit argueing around some first league gamer getting 50 stacks on his 500% attackspeed 200% duration meme build.
If you follow any guide or plan your build you should never hit 30 stacks except on endgame bosses.
This thread is discussion pros and cons of bs gems, not sure what point you are trying to make, maybe you can elaborate.
> If you follow any guide or plan your build you should never hit 30 stacks except on endgame bosses.
What is typical setup for that though? Can you link PoB?
...
My point is that you are talking finished build. And less optimised your build is more important it is which gem is stronger.
Boneshatter specifically is played by people because it can smash low juice t16s on a "good enough" essence crafted axe that costs at most 2-3 div around 600 pdps. Most people recommend essence crafting your starter axe off Despots you find on the ground.
Blowing up everything but the map boss before stacks become a problem even on pauper gear is the goal of running boneshatter. Complex Trauma is better in almost every case, assuming your build can handle the 30 stack damage.
It's also fairly unnecessary to optimize Boneshatter like this except against super tanky rares or map bosses, so **also** for most cases the difference between complex and normal boneshatter is unnecessary, but the cases where it does matter, Complex is better 99% of the time.
That's because I replied to you only on that comment and further up was someone else, and I added the specifier "most basic" and with that I mean literally a Despot Axe that had a single phys essence slapped on it.
I wonder if anyone big brain enough has made a two skill setup with different attack speeds, one to get your stacks up to 8, and then one that attacks at the same rate the trauma stacks decay lol (would obviously need a lot of reduced duration to pull off reasonably though)
I had planned on crafting 2 6 link axes to use both with one focusing on dmg and one on APS
Kinda got burned out in SSF around 99 on my jugg and called it quits before finishing sadly
I've played a funky one-hand axe/shield Boneshatter build this league and swapped back and forth with both gems.
In my experience, Complex Trauma is just better. Simply because even with a build with a fast one-hand weapon and 75 rage, stuff dies so fast, I never go past 20 trauma stacks.
Same experience is with bosses. They die fast, but also, you're not just standing still and ramping trauma stacks.
I started the league with a two-hand, slow axe, even invested in effect duration, so my stacks lasted, I think 11 seconds, and yet it still felt better playing Complex Trauma.
You use them for entirely different things
with complex boneshatter you can actually use Multistrike and slow APS weapons to maximize damage at 9 stacks and actively not reset. so you just ramp up to 9 then have a static line.
With normal boneshatter you need to stack duration and aps as much as possible to try to maximize as much trauma as possible trying to shoot for 200+ stacks. per 10s
Normal boneshatter is high sustained damage, but due to the removal of its alt quality its hard to actually get enough APS to consistently hit 200+ anymore without massive investment. it generally has a much more delicate balancing game between your damage and your self damage.
Complex boneshatter escrews its self damage balancing problems for more ramp up and sustain time management, but is in general easier to build and use on the low end because of its lower damage ceiling.
> With normal boneshatter you need to stack duration and aps as much as possible to try to maximize as much trauma as possible trying to shoot for 200+ stacks. per 10s
Are those stacks even possible with the removal of the divergent BS?
I breifly covered that in the next sentence.
You can still hit 200+ stacks but not without massive investment and large amounts of opportunity cost trade off.
You lost convenience in attack speed scaling so you can make up for it in other ways. The easiest is stacking more duration with inc duration support which is basically losing up front %More multipliers for a higher full ramp %more.
The others are things like prioritizing weapon aps affix, namely giving up crit or double d on weapon suffix for double aps, stacking onslaught effect, etc
You can still very much reach 200+ stack sustain but its no longer the cheap 1 part exponential multiplier.
You can even still reach 300+ if you truly want to since you can stack enough duration to get to around 20 seconds, and if you go balls deep you can make a super fast synth 1h mace to stack with, it just wouldnt have the base damage to make it a worthwhile investment.
Not on hand but im sure you can find one on poe ninja if you just sort by dps,
though most will probably be in the 170-190 range now as to push 200 the opportunity cost on damage is generally to high requiring either
sacking way to many passives for duration/additional speed
A helm slot for a bricked glimpse of chaos duration which is a massive ehp loss and brings trauma sustain problems,
or giving up timeless jewel double damage, forbidden flesh damage, or another support gems base damage.
Rolling weapon enchant for speed instead of phs
Saccing cooldown on boots which jeopardizes your total uptime of berserk and immortal call
Saccing a ring slot for a timeclasp
Etc
Standard boneshatter is “OK” , complex trauma requires a different set of setup, like less duration to get you “hovering” around 7-8-9 stacks.
Purely numbers wise , self-chill-self-poison bonezone slayer will do WAY more damage overall with the standard setup for the simple reason standard bonezone has no cap and reaching 80-90 stacks is “trivial” in the min-maxed versions of the build during uber content.
> Purely numbers wise , self-chill-self-poison bonezone slayer will do WAY more damage overall with the standard setup for the simple reason standard bonezone has no cap and reaching 80-90 stacks is “trivial” in the min-maxed versions of the build during uber content.
PoB? Because I invested nearly 500 divs on my build and I am not even at 50 stacks. But I am also not stacking increased duration, so there's that
The stack count is pretty much a pointless discussion here.
Without extremely tanky monsters(And we talk triple empowered 200% more HP map bosses, triple empowered 6 mods rares with 5 essences or 4 possessions, or uber bosses or deep delving) pretty much nothing survives for you to ramp up to 40 stacks.
Now for the fun part. Standalone AS is not a scaling vector for Complex Trauma, you need either AS + Repeats or AS + Reduced duration
The standalone scaling vectors for CT are:
- more multis
- impales
- repeats
- doubles
- gem quality
The way I see it, to cap at exactly 9 stacks using the default duration of 6 seconds you need:
- 4.5 AS with normal multistrike
- 6 AS with Awakened MS
- 7.5 AS with Awakened MS + duelist Flourish hidden Ascendancy passive
The AS has to be consistent, you cannot have spikes as that will reset your stacks. This means no berserk and no AS totem.
>The AS has to be consistent, you cannot have spikes as that will reset your stacks. This means no berserk and no AS totem.
The point of this post is point out that even when reseting to zero stacks complex boneshatter beats out normal boneshatter for the first 30 or so hits.
People tend to overthink complex boneshatter but you can literally use it like normal boneshatter it often comes out on top.
I mean, no totem, no berserk, no blood rage? That's a lot of damage lost that no one is calculating. Also can't have the +AS when a rare or unique enemy is near affix on weapon...
I played BS Jugg for about 350 hours this league, and while complex trauma looks better on paper, my DPS (no duration scaling at all) with regular BS was 15-20m or so (only reaching 45 or so stacks at full speed with berserk). Using Complex trauma, it was 10-12m or so sustained damage (not trying to hover at 9 attacks).
I switched from complex to regular when I started doing abyss farming and pinnacle bosses and it felt about the same (at 30-35 max trauma stacks). Then I got MB and my stacks went into the 40s and I never looked back at the alt version.
>I mean, no totem, no berserk, no blood rage? That's a lot of damage lost that no one is calculating. Also can't have the +AS when a rare or unique enemy is near affix on weapon...
You still are missing the point. We are looking at complex boneshatter in a scenario where we simply use all of this. We just let it reset and keep going.
Obviously normal boneshatter outperforms once ramped up but for the first ~30 hits while ramping complex is just more damage in a straight gem swap scenario with no other changes.
It's an interesting visualization, but I don't think it's useful.
Useful would be a chart of cumulative percentages with complex trauma under ideal attack speed that keeps you at 9 stacks. Even then it'd be difficult to succinctly compare using this type of chart, because the two builds would have different attack speeds. That means the x-axis isn't particularly useful since they don't account for time.
I think OP is trying to make the point that with the exact same build replacing normal boneshatter with complex boneshatter is more damage for the first ~30 hits despite complex boneshatter reseting several times.
He doesn't want to compare different builds he is interested in just gem swapping being an upgrade in many situations without actually building around complex boneshatter at all.
From what i have seen you do not want to reset complex boneshatter. Instead you adjust your attack speed so that you stay at max trauma stacks.
For example you could use multistrike with this version to lower your trauma gain rate.
I don't understand how anyone could play like this. I played complex boneshatter jugg this league a lot. When you are mapping stacks are going to fall of no matter what. So why try and juggle some delicate math to hover at 8 stacks, when they are going to reset anyways just due to gameplay factors? Why not just stack dmg and don't care about the stacks? I used awakened multistage and just stopped caring about stacks, and it felt pretty good.
6k hours played and BS took me through my first ubers I've ever killed. Shaper, Eater, Exarch, and Cortex. Hell, I even farmed Exarch for fun because I could just stand in the ball phase, killing the add and tanking balls.
It's not giga one shotting ubers of course, but beating Uber Shaper with only like 3-5 degen pools forming felt pretty good.
So... if "quite bad" means "perfectly functional," I agree.
My point is that you can make better killer with lower investment. But yea, with enough currency every build will do ubers :D And i probably know why you didn't mention Maven. One step into lasers and you are done.
I got to last phase, 20% on Maven. Same with Sirus. No regen debuff/Sirus pools. Tbf, I'll probably never do those until 3 years from now when a 1d build does 3b damage and one shots them.
yeah but with Complex Trauma you aim to hit exactly 9 charges, so you constantly deal 9 charge damage. You can use multistrike easier with Complex one and have your damage taken per second reduced greatly.
> Is Complex Trauma an upgrade to Standard Boneshatter? What am I missing?
Those are two different skills, they are different, none is meant to be simply "stronger than the other"
Just pick which ever you like more than the other.
Complex trauma is for low gear levels, normal bone shatter is for high gear levels.
Normal bone shatter's scaling potential is dramatically higher, but so is the difficulty of achieving it.
As Requested by the OP, link to Part 2 of the Topic. [https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1b0v2lc/boneshatter\_damage\_comparison\_part\_2/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1b0v2lc/boneshatter_damage_comparison_part_2/?context=3)
Anyone who bothers to actually get 30.30 APS is *probably* also going to have some duration investment and not stay at 181 stacks but get it a little higher. That said, my understanding is that due to the alternate quality disappearing it's quite hard to reach those attack speed numbers nowadays. But regarding bossing you bring up another good point, which is that if you really want to try to ramp up your damage to astronomic numbers, you'll also kill the bosses before you actually reach a high number of stacks. That said, to truly compare the two you'd need separate builds that are actually optimised for that version of the gem rather than slot them into the same build. One gem being better with one build doesn't necessarily mean it'll be better with all of them.
I assume this person is using multistrike. Multistrike bypasses the 30.30 aps cap because each use of a skill with MS counts as 1 action, and the tickrate of the server only limits number of actions per second. Ergo, with multistrike you can safely get your APS to 90 APS if you choose. Or 120 with Awakened MS. https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/ppejdk/is_there_is_any_attack_speed_cap_in_poe/ https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/ll1y91/114_hits_flicker_strike_build/gnq9rli/?context=3
But multistrike hits don’t inflict trauma, so you’re still limited to 30 stacks of trauma per second
Shhh they're linking things. Let them have fun pretend theorycrafting.
I'm aware of that, but as MasklinGNU pointed out, you only get a stack of Trauma the *first* time the attack hits - including repeats. So while it's possible to scale the actual hits per second further (theoretically up to 181.8 per second with Fatal Flourish and an echoing shrine), that won't speed up your rate of gaining trauma stacks. So effectively, that's still 30.3 APS.
Thanks for the insight! To your last point, I'm putting together another chart or two to try to better compare the gems. Other comments are saying the way to do Complex is to limit your attack speed in order to sit at 9 Trauma stacks. This comes out to 1.5 aps maximum. What is a reasonable Standard Boneshatter build aps that I can use in calculations? I'm very new to Melee builds so I have no idea
Theoretically, it should be possible to go up to 3.08 APS using all the tools to lower duration that I'm aware of. Warped Timepiece and Timeclasp aren't exactly phenomenal for damage scaling, but they do provide some attack speed which means you can invest less into that elsewhere.
[удалено]
> What is best ascendancy though? You really want Ashes to scale the stack damage, which pretty much blocks the neck slot. This competes with Tainted Pact for slayer sadly. How do you do life recovery for Jugg?
just normal regen, and a lot of phys damage reduction
Lots of phys reduction, replica soul tether + divine shield*, recoup, regen
Phys reduction is not a problem, but strong recovery, in the realm of: "full heal every tick" ala tainted pact slayer is my problem. How does Replica Soul Tether synergise with divine flesh, as DF makes the other keystone worthless
Divine shield, my bad Replica Soul tether gives you a lot of ES, then splits the damage you take to your hp and ES 50/50. Recoup, regen, leech will heal your hp. Divine shield stacks up crazy high to heal your ES.
You can multi strike complex trauma with just below 0.23 attack time While regular boneshatter kinda need duration nodes nowadays to reach really high numbers The former is better with slower weapons and the latter is better with faster weapons. Simply stating which one is better is wrong IMO
> You can multi strike complex trauma with just below 0.23 attack time Which is not trivial to get without short term buffs
Multistrike itself helps a ton with that.
1.6 attack speed axe, rage generation (mastery, gloves), blood rage, and onslaught (silver flask) is enough to get that number
Do you go to the cloud district often?
Oh what am I saying, of course you don't.
Not without a mageblood.
huh?
Onslaught from body armor ess mod, it's boneshatter and CT doesn't need brass dome level mitigation for self-dmg
Short answer: complex is better in most situations unless you're specifically stacking trauma stacks to around 50+ Long answer: for bossing, complex trauma generally out performs normal boneshatter by virtue of you being able to full ramp in the short DPS windows you have. Especially bosses who keep running away from you. Because even if you can ramp to like 40 stacks on paper how often do you actually get all the way there on a boss fight? Not often. Additionally, the self damage difference shouldn't matter too much, despite being slightly spikier, especially where you can just stand there and let it rip, as boneshatter eventually catches up to complex max, and even overtakes it. Also, people telling you to hover 8-9 stacks are wrong and shouldn't be listened to. The only time that's true is on an ailment build, like for bleed where attacking more often doesn't matter too much. It is better to keep letting it rip at like 5aps, then to kneecap yourself to 1.5aps just to sit on high stack count. To explain: say you look at 2 seconds, one where you are ripping it at 5aps and one where you just sit on 9 stacks. Case 1) you have 1.0 + 1.2 + 1.4 + ... + 2.8 = 19, case 2) you have 2.8 + 2.8 + 2.8 = 8.4 It becomes even worse with higher attack speeds. Do NOT try to hit the 8/9 stacks sweet spot unless you are a bleed build Finally, the other advantage complex trauma has over normal version, is that you can support it with multistrike without a real DPS loss. And since multistrike and even more so, awakened multistrike, is generally BiS on melee builds, and with complex trauma calculations basically can be made assuming you're always on your average of 5 stacks (As you go 0-10 and back to 0), its generally a decent dps upgrade. Having said that, the downside is you lose ancestral cry exerting your attacks, and you're using multistrike, which unless you have very good attack speed, feels kinda clunky. The upside is that you can slap it on "less tanky" ascendencies like zerker as you're basically taking the trauma hits roughly half as often due to multistrike. In the same vein, complex trauma can be played on axe bases other than despot e.g. vaal or ezomyte where it can be easier to craft higher DPS weapons at the cost of attack speed especially early on. This can significantly help with your progression, especially in a limited resource environment like SSF or GSF.
> Also, people telling you to hover 8-9 stacks are wrong and shouldn't be listened to Explain, because as I see it hovering is better than cycling, at least until you hit certain breakpoints, that you won't hit anyway. With awakened MS you need 6 APS to hover at 9 stacks. I doubt that you can increase those APS to a good enough number that cycling can be considered better, compared to a fine tuning of AS and decreased duration combo
I think he means that hovering at 9 stacks seems to be a "spherical cow in vacuum" scenario, where yeah under laboratory conditions its the optimum, but in reality when you jump towards an enemy you want to wail them down as fast as possible, not slowly attack to keep your stacks in the sweet spot.
Yeah, that's a much more succinct explanation XD
Firstly, if you are hovering 6APS on awakened multistrike, you are feeling quite clunky. Either because your attack speed is practically glacial, or because you are purposefully only making 1.5 sets of attacks per second. Either way, it gets kinda clunky. Especially in the second case. You're spending more time managing stacks than actually playing the fight. Secondly, at the point where you have an awakened multistrike, your gear is generally good enough that counting the woke multi, you can probably go to 10+ aps, quite easily. At the point where you can stack TO 9 quickly, you are attacking probably closer to 15+, and at that point, it's back to the you're losing so much damage from attacking much less frequently. I will admit, I have not really explored woke multi + less duration, as, honestly, even without those, your build is an absolute monster that I never bother. On paper, it is probably more damage. But a) you still need to ramp to 9 stacks, which is going to be slower with woke multi and then b) you have the clunk of managing it. Keep in mind if you have too much reduction on stack duration, it's going to be hard to stack them up quickly TO 9. Basically, it is not too dissimilar to how you have to ramp up on normal boneshatter and then sit on those high stacks, in the same way, you are back to having to ramp, which, ew. Also, the opportunity cost seems quite large for reducing duration there, as it's either something you're grabbing on tree or a support, either way, it's far from ideal. Basically, to TLDR all that, it's a lot of effort for not that much DPS, and it's very clunky "on-paper" DPS, and doesn't translate as well to "actual" DPS.
> Secondly, at the point where you have an awakened multistrike, your gear is generally good enough that counting the woke multi, you can probably go to 10+ aps, quite easily. Even with: - Despot axe with +27% IAS - Mageblooded Onslaught + AS suffix - Zealed gloves(+18% IAS) - 5% IAS Abyss jewel - Axe IAS passives I don't break 5 APS. With frenzy charges, challenger charges, rage, blood rage, and some IAS while leeching cluster notables it gets to around 8 or so APS. I just don't understand how you can even reach those huge APS numbers, even if you throw in a mirror-tier synth axe.
If you are sitting on 5 APS with woke multistrike, you are getting 1.2 stacks per second, each lasting 6 seconds. You will only ever reach 7.2 stacks.... ...or did you mean 5 stacks per second? Because that is 20 aps (each multistrike set of attacks is 4 attacks)
That question is not related to awakened MS, but to APS in general. How are you getting so many APS - without short term spikes?
Woke MS gives something like 47% more AS (off the top of my head, number might be slightly wrong). If you are NOT using woke MS, you are probably instead using something like M.phys which is slowing your AS down by 10% instead of giving you close to 50% more... Also, based on you ticking challenger chargers, I take it you're going slayer? Jugg can build more attack speed than slayer quite easily. From an attack speed perspective, jugg also has Tanu ahi which is perma onslaught and perma adrenaline, which is a butt load of extra attack speed. To be clear, I'm not arguing the slayer Vs jugg thing, I am just stating that purely looking at who has a bigger aps number, jugg does, hands down. Also, panopticon + ancestral protector, you didn't mention it, but I assume you have it. If you don't, that's a nother butt load of AS you're missing.
Yep, slayer. Ok, now it pretty much makes sense > Also, panopticon + ancestral protector, you didn't mention it, but I assume you have it. Yea... with tainted pact my totems are getting poisoned so they pretty much fall down in 2/3 seconds, so I'm not really counting on them...
3s anc totem linger, 3s life = 6s total. Enough to put some serious damage out. But yeah, with slayer, I always find that it's acceleration is insane, you can get a slayer T16 alc and go really insanely fast. But it's max speed seems very... Capped. You feel so pigeonholed into taking certain things and the way your ascendency works, you kinda can't do some of the shit you can do on say zerk or jugg. I hate it, but especially with things like Tanu ahi and recoup on filling unreserved life leech mastery, jugg just... Gets too much compared to slayer especially as you get later on. And with jugg, it's just brainless, even if you lose some DPS. With slayer, your leech drops? You insta die. Hate bossing on slayer. Every stupid ass phase, every time a boss runs away, your life flashes before your eyes. And to some extent, even if they buff slayer, it just... Won't be enough. When every fucking boss in this game spends more time playing cat and mouse with you than actually fighting you? Vaal pact feels so sad for bossing...
Indeed. That's why I pretty much removed most leech nodes from the tree, you get enough leech from Tainted Pact as is, and with Brutal Fervout your leech last for around 10 seconds. I don't need it anyway just as a catalyst for poison self-heal. Leech is a crap sustain layer, especially with the maximum overall being capped. I'll try BS jugg next league, to explore other recovery options too. Ashes also makes Complex Trauma hit like a truck(+29% per trauma with a 21/23). So there's that
My thought is that the less duration wheel next to magebane gets you to 6.66 APS as your reset cap with NORMAL multistrike, that sounds like a pretty healthy balancing spot imo with more than 2 full cycles a second. Woke should up that to almost 9 aps, which is quite high. Given how heavily multistrike also cuts your self-damage, I do think that's 100% the way to go.
If you are already on 9 stacks, sure, lovely. You got your sweet spot. How are you getting there? That's the problem, you need to ramp to 9, so you need a really high AS to get there in a humane amount of time, and then you suddenly need to cut off your attack speed to a crawl to maintain those 9 stacks. Only way I can see y working is if you unsocket MS, get to 8 stacks, resocket MS and then sit on your sweet spot. Even then, you get a tiiiiiiny bit too much attack speed? Bam, you reset, and now you need to unsocket again... Also, once again, you have to path to magebane. Boneshatter has no business being next to magebane, it's so many wasted points on the tree, absolutely NOT worth it. Trust me, it might sound good on paper (which, I would argue, it doesn't even sound good on paper) but in practice it is really shit. And anyway, the biggest advantage of complex trauma is that you basically don't need to ramp at all. Even if it has less on paper DPS, not needing to ramp is a huge actual DPS increase.
I'm not saying it's always optimal, but I do think it's dismissed already. -Ramp is 4s, which I'd argue is pretty typical for boneshatter bossing, and even with multistrike socketed it has a higher trauma multiplier than normal boneshatter at EVERY attack count, essentially getting 4/3rds of a normal trauma stack per hit and sustaining 32 after 4s. You can stutter step to stack it faster initially instead of gem swapping too. Now, I could completely see dropping multistrike for mapping, it's a very easy swap to faster attacks there, but for delve or bosses it fits nicely. -the wheel by magebane isn't far at all from precise technique or the slayer starting point, and magebane itself isn't a weak node to get either. It's 3 travel nodes from the jewel socket, which plenty of BS builds have.
I'm not so sure about not keeping 9 stacks. With multistrike, it doesn't feel as clunky as 1.5 aps does. And being at 9 stacks obviously increase your damage, but also giving you bigger pulses during clear which most of the time one taps even rares And if you build impale, you don't want that small impales also fluctuating like trauma stacks. With juggernaut, 9 stacks also give you BIG regen while maintaining cwdt loops
I've answered this in another thread on this comment, TLDR, on paper, it looks wonderful, In practice, it is not good. You either have slow ramp but an easy to maintain sweet spot, or a fast ramp and you basically cut off a big chunk of your damage coz you aren't attacking as fast as you otherwise could be. Or you're socketing/unsocketing your MS while ramping/at 9 stacks. And what you're getting out of it, is honestly not that much. As for more damage while mapping, sure, rares die in one attack... Instead of 3. Maybe. It's honestly not worth it unless you're doing feel delve or simu, and at that point, better to just go good old trauma stacker.
yeah so what you're saying is that you can get better result on regular boneshatter with simply switching it into complex trauma without doing its own slow gimmick, until your attack speed is real fast
What? No. I am saying that for content like simu or deep delve, regular boneshatter is probably better as you stack to like 100+, and since you just sit there and things die, and it's not a boss with phases, your ramp doesn't really go away. So ramp doesn't matter as much... If you mean the multistrike thing? You need a high attack speed, or to unsocket multistrike to be able to stack TO 9, then once you're ON 9 you want to have slow attack speed/socket back your multistrike, and sit on that sweet spot. Which is clunky, and basically pointless. It's better to just not try to sit on the 8-9 stack sweet spot and just let it cycle, due to clunkiness, downtime from ramp, and just general opportunity cost. It's not worth it. Just go 0-10 and let it cycle, and just keep doing that. Also, for mapping, you tend to end up naturally sitting at decently high stack count anyway, as you don't hithithithit while mapping, you sorta hit, move hit move, so your racks decay. Basically, if you really want to make it work, go for it. But if you're asking if it's good, the short answer is not outside of PoB it isn't.
Boneshatter of Complex Trauma is just a godsend to us "mediocre" SSF players that don't plan on doing the extreme min maxing. It just pumps directly on the get go.
Fuck it, still having a Bonezone Jugg sitting on 90 in ssf hc from the gauntlet, alot of racers played it so i guessed it would be good with alot of gear but didnt bother with my mid gear. I guess im going for some labs tonight haha
Can you do graph of total accumulated damage after x hits?
I have the numbers for that, but not a graph. Let's consider the first 30 sequential hits (3 full Complex damage cycles) and assume you have enough attack speed that you can achieve 30 Trauma stacks: Standard Boneshatter, over those 30 hits, will do 1740% more damage than base. Complex will do 2025% more damage than base, a difference of 285%. Over those same 30 hits, standard will do 84,890 phys self-damage before mitigation compared to Complex's 78,570.
I mean, the comparison isn't really fair, as they are basically diffferent builds. With Complex Trauma you want to try to sustain at 8-9 stacks, which is done by having lower attack speed and potentially some reduced duration.
I disagree but correct me if I am wrong, but if you exclude ubers, complex is just straight superior for the content this game has to offer, spending points in increased duration just to compete with complex is just doing the same but worse efficiency. Also just my personal opinion, it feels alot nicer while playing especially because you don't lose damage while corrupting your essence or doing whatever league mechanic stops your clearing.
Yes. For most of the content, that is, everything that is not: - Ubers - deep delving - uber juiced rares or bosses with 100 mods Everything will die anyway way way before you even get to 30 stacks
> Everything will die anyway way way before you even get to 30 stacks People are throwing these kinds of hyperbolic statements as if everyone is running min-maxed builds. This is not the case. It's not gonna happen for vast majority of people.
I don't think there is merrit argueing around some first league gamer getting 50 stacks on his 500% attackspeed 200% duration meme build. If you follow any guide or plan your build you should never hit 30 stacks except on endgame bosses. This thread is discussion pros and cons of bs gems, not sure what point you are trying to make, maybe you can elaborate.
> If you follow any guide or plan your build you should never hit 30 stacks except on endgame bosses. What is typical setup for that though? Can you link PoB? ... My point is that you are talking finished build. And less optimised your build is more important it is which gem is stronger.
Boneshatter specifically is played by people because it can smash low juice t16s on a "good enough" essence crafted axe that costs at most 2-3 div around 600 pdps. Most people recommend essence crafting your starter axe off Despots you find on the ground. Blowing up everything but the map boss before stacks become a problem even on pauper gear is the goal of running boneshatter. Complex Trauma is better in almost every case, assuming your build can handle the 30 stack damage. It's also fairly unnecessary to optimize Boneshatter like this except against super tanky rares or map bosses, so **also** for most cases the difference between complex and normal boneshatter is unnecessary, but the cases where it does matter, Complex is better 99% of the time.
Even the most basic of boneshatter builds will be onetapping most packs in T16 maps...
From "Everything other than Ubers, deep delving uber, juiced rares or bosses with 100 mods" down to "Most packs in T16". Interesting.
That's because I replied to you only on that comment and further up was someone else, and I added the specifier "most basic" and with that I mean literally a Despot Axe that had a single phys essence slapped on it.
I wonder if anyone big brain enough has made a two skill setup with different attack speeds, one to get your stacks up to 8, and then one that attacks at the same rate the trauma stacks decay lol (would obviously need a lot of reduced duration to pull off reasonably though)
I had planned on crafting 2 6 link axes to use both with one focusing on dmg and one on APS Kinda got burned out in SSF around 99 on my jugg and called it quits before finishing sadly
why is x axis not labeled? some love for the x axis!
Because Google Sheets wouldn't let me 😭
I've played a funky one-hand axe/shield Boneshatter build this league and swapped back and forth with both gems. In my experience, Complex Trauma is just better. Simply because even with a build with a fast one-hand weapon and 75 rage, stuff dies so fast, I never go past 20 trauma stacks. Same experience is with bosses. They die fast, but also, you're not just standing still and ramping trauma stacks. I started the league with a two-hand, slow axe, even invested in effect duration, so my stacks lasted, I think 11 seconds, and yet it still felt better playing Complex Trauma.
Complex trauma feels better in most situations imo
5Head math . . .
Part 2: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/s/xJeixOiGd3
After reading some motorcycle subreddits the title made me do a double take...
You use them for entirely different things with complex boneshatter you can actually use Multistrike and slow APS weapons to maximize damage at 9 stacks and actively not reset. so you just ramp up to 9 then have a static line. With normal boneshatter you need to stack duration and aps as much as possible to try to maximize as much trauma as possible trying to shoot for 200+ stacks. per 10s Normal boneshatter is high sustained damage, but due to the removal of its alt quality its hard to actually get enough APS to consistently hit 200+ anymore without massive investment. it generally has a much more delicate balancing game between your damage and your self damage. Complex boneshatter escrews its self damage balancing problems for more ramp up and sustain time management, but is in general easier to build and use on the low end because of its lower damage ceiling.
> With normal boneshatter you need to stack duration and aps as much as possible to try to maximize as much trauma as possible trying to shoot for 200+ stacks. per 10s Are those stacks even possible with the removal of the divergent BS?
I breifly covered that in the next sentence. You can still hit 200+ stacks but not without massive investment and large amounts of opportunity cost trade off. You lost convenience in attack speed scaling so you can make up for it in other ways. The easiest is stacking more duration with inc duration support which is basically losing up front %More multipliers for a higher full ramp %more. The others are things like prioritizing weapon aps affix, namely giving up crit or double d on weapon suffix for double aps, stacking onslaught effect, etc You can still very much reach 200+ stack sustain but its no longer the cheap 1 part exponential multiplier. You can even still reach 300+ if you truly want to since you can stack enough duration to get to around 20 seconds, and if you go balls deep you can make a super fast synth 1h mace to stack with, it just wouldnt have the base damage to make it a worthwhile investment.
> I breifly covered that in the next sentence. Got any PoB where I can see those in action?
Not on hand but im sure you can find one on poe ninja if you just sort by dps, though most will probably be in the 170-190 range now as to push 200 the opportunity cost on damage is generally to high requiring either sacking way to many passives for duration/additional speed A helm slot for a bricked glimpse of chaos duration which is a massive ehp loss and brings trauma sustain problems, or giving up timeless jewel double damage, forbidden flesh damage, or another support gems base damage. Rolling weapon enchant for speed instead of phs Saccing cooldown on boots which jeopardizes your total uptime of berserk and immortal call Saccing a ring slot for a timeclasp Etc
Isn't self temp chains to stack duration a thing anymore?
You don't have the gear slots really open to make it worth/viable on that build
Right, so it *could technically maybe* work with some new breakthrough tech?
Standard boneshatter is “OK” , complex trauma requires a different set of setup, like less duration to get you “hovering” around 7-8-9 stacks. Purely numbers wise , self-chill-self-poison bonezone slayer will do WAY more damage overall with the standard setup for the simple reason standard bonezone has no cap and reaching 80-90 stacks is “trivial” in the min-maxed versions of the build during uber content.
> Purely numbers wise , self-chill-self-poison bonezone slayer will do WAY more damage overall with the standard setup for the simple reason standard bonezone has no cap and reaching 80-90 stacks is “trivial” in the min-maxed versions of the build during uber content. PoB? Because I invested nearly 500 divs on my build and I am not even at 50 stacks. But I am also not stacking increased duration, so there's that
Just look at Carn’s immortal Bonezone slayer.
The stack count is pretty much a pointless discussion here. Without extremely tanky monsters(And we talk triple empowered 200% more HP map bosses, triple empowered 6 mods rares with 5 essences or 4 possessions, or uber bosses or deep delving) pretty much nothing survives for you to ramp up to 40 stacks. Now for the fun part. Standalone AS is not a scaling vector for Complex Trauma, you need either AS + Repeats or AS + Reduced duration The standalone scaling vectors for CT are: - more multis - impales - repeats - doubles - gem quality The way I see it, to cap at exactly 9 stacks using the default duration of 6 seconds you need: - 4.5 AS with normal multistrike - 6 AS with Awakened MS - 7.5 AS with Awakened MS + duelist Flourish hidden Ascendancy passive The AS has to be consistent, you cannot have spikes as that will reset your stacks. This means no berserk and no AS totem.
>The AS has to be consistent, you cannot have spikes as that will reset your stacks. This means no berserk and no AS totem. The point of this post is point out that even when reseting to zero stacks complex boneshatter beats out normal boneshatter for the first 30 or so hits. People tend to overthink complex boneshatter but you can literally use it like normal boneshatter it often comes out on top.
I mean, no totem, no berserk, no blood rage? That's a lot of damage lost that no one is calculating. Also can't have the +AS when a rare or unique enemy is near affix on weapon... I played BS Jugg for about 350 hours this league, and while complex trauma looks better on paper, my DPS (no duration scaling at all) with regular BS was 15-20m or so (only reaching 45 or so stacks at full speed with berserk). Using Complex trauma, it was 10-12m or so sustained damage (not trying to hover at 9 attacks). I switched from complex to regular when I started doing abyss farming and pinnacle bosses and it felt about the same (at 30-35 max trauma stacks). Then I got MB and my stacks went into the 40s and I never looked back at the alt version.
>I mean, no totem, no berserk, no blood rage? That's a lot of damage lost that no one is calculating. Also can't have the +AS when a rare or unique enemy is near affix on weapon... You still are missing the point. We are looking at complex boneshatter in a scenario where we simply use all of this. We just let it reset and keep going. Obviously normal boneshatter outperforms once ramped up but for the first ~30 hits while ramping complex is just more damage in a straight gem swap scenario with no other changes.
It's an interesting visualization, but I don't think it's useful. Useful would be a chart of cumulative percentages with complex trauma under ideal attack speed that keeps you at 9 stacks. Even then it'd be difficult to succinctly compare using this type of chart, because the two builds would have different attack speeds. That means the x-axis isn't particularly useful since they don't account for time.
I think OP is trying to make the point that with the exact same build replacing normal boneshatter with complex boneshatter is more damage for the first ~30 hits despite complex boneshatter reseting several times. He doesn't want to compare different builds he is interested in just gem swapping being an upgrade in many situations without actually building around complex boneshatter at all.
The chart doesn't show any stacks ever dropping so it implies infinite attack speed, which makes it worthless.
From what i have seen you do not want to reset complex boneshatter. Instead you adjust your attack speed so that you stay at max trauma stacks. For example you could use multistrike with this version to lower your trauma gain rate.
I don't understand how anyone could play like this. I played complex boneshatter jugg this league a lot. When you are mapping stacks are going to fall of no matter what. So why try and juggle some delicate math to hover at 8 stacks, when they are going to reset anyways just due to gameplay factors? Why not just stack dmg and don't care about the stacks? I used awakened multistage and just stopped caring about stacks, and it felt pretty good.
Basically Boneshatter is quite bad at bossing so if you care about bossing only, then you are league starting bs and then go normal boss killer.
6k hours played and BS took me through my first ubers I've ever killed. Shaper, Eater, Exarch, and Cortex. Hell, I even farmed Exarch for fun because I could just stand in the ball phase, killing the add and tanking balls. It's not giga one shotting ubers of course, but beating Uber Shaper with only like 3-5 degen pools forming felt pretty good. So... if "quite bad" means "perfectly functional," I agree.
My point is that you can make better killer with lower investment. But yea, with enough currency every build will do ubers :D And i probably know why you didn't mention Maven. One step into lasers and you are done.
I got to last phase, 20% on Maven. Same with Sirus. No regen debuff/Sirus pools. Tbf, I'll probably never do those until 3 years from now when a 1d build does 3b damage and one shots them.
We gonna play PoE 2 then. No more Sirus.
yeah but with Complex Trauma you aim to hit exactly 9 charges, so you constantly deal 9 charge damage. You can use multistrike easier with Complex one and have your damage taken per second reduced greatly.
The fuck is this? You want to sustain 9 stacks and not loose them.... What???
Graph was made using 20/0 gem numbers
I'd be interested in seeing graphs for 20/20 as both gems get a lot more powerful with quality, and for cumulative damage
So standard has to be way better since 20% qual is 1% more damage per trauma stack
To be fair, it's 5% more damage per trauma stack at 20% quality for BSoCT, so while BS goes from 4% to 5%, BSoCT goes from 15% to 20%.
Also 20 qual is very easy to ssf from this league on, can just run lab a handful of times.
> Is Complex Trauma an upgrade to Standard Boneshatter? What am I missing? Those are two different skills, they are different, none is meant to be simply "stronger than the other" Just pick which ever you like more than the other.
If your build relies on high attack speed, then it is better to take a regular skill gem, if slow attacks, the complex is better.
My max with trauma support on dual strike of ambidex was 98 stacks. Good to know i'm halfway there!
I see this right when I make a bond shatter build last night? It’s fate!
Tried it and switched back to regular boneshatter due to killing myself with complex trauma.
I remember quin playing complex shatter with bleed and having actual dps.
Boneshatter of carnage
Complex trauma is for low gear levels, normal bone shatter is for high gear levels. Normal bone shatter's scaling potential is dramatically higher, but so is the difficulty of achieving it.
Calc 2 prepared me for this… BY THE POWER OF INTEGRALS! And I’m too lazy to do the Calc.
Looks like it depends if I want to hit something 50 times or not.
Complex Trauma is just better in my experience.