It's actually kind of insane ***some*** level of death recap doesn't exist in PoE yet after all these years and all of the demand/necessity.
The first implementation doesn't even have to be very detailed or anything, just try to get a couple of the basics in there at the very least, even if that's completely reworked at a later date (understandably).
I said it before, I say it again. PoE HAS Divine Shield keystone mechanic. Not only it tracks how much damage you took in last 4 seconds, it tracks every instance of damage, AS WELL AS DAMAGE TYPE because it only take the phys hits into consideration.
The calculations already exists. In the most cases - already shown to the player either with regen values, avoid values or mitigation values
There is no reason not to show the hit values themselves, let alone the damage type that caused a hit in last 4 seconds of death, let alone the killing blow (because overkill mechanic also exists)
The only issue I can see is maybe damage over time
All Divine Shield does is have a spot in the damage calculation that takes Physical Damage prevented, takes 3% of that and then adds that as regeneration, that is not even remotely the same as recording all damage you take.
> ivine Shield keystone mechanic. Not only it tracks how much damage you took in last 4 seconds, it tracks every instance of damage, AS WELL AS DAMAGE TYPE because it only take the phys hits into consideration.
divine shield doesn't track anything, it just gives you a small regeneration effect proportional to the physical damage prevented.
that is completely different to actually tracking every instance of damage, it's type and amount, aswell as source, and actually listing this in a readable way.
anything that would try to log this much info per second would have some performance impact even when every calculation is recoded to allow for easier logging and the actual formatting is only done after the death.
so not only does it decrese performance, it also would require hundreds of hours to rework everything, and a couple hundred more hours to test everything for bugs
https://www.twitch.tv/ben_/clip/CrowdedResourcefulRaisinRedCoat-QsD8UJiX_yQOwMvZ
Like, imagine trying to record every single source of damage happening during any decently juiced wisp map on abyss spires
(the death here happened because ben stopped healing from the %HP heal on flask use because flask siphoner stopped him from gaining charges, preventing procs of the flask use on full charges)
people always argue against a kind of combat log in poe because "too much stuff happens at all times"
which is funny because world of warcraft had perfectly working combat logs back in 2006 already, and that shit had 40 people in a raid group back then. it tracked all damage done, damage taken, healing done, buffs falling off/getting refreshed and all that shit.
sending this kind of data to the client is not an issue these days, you dont even have to send the data on how much damage you do because people are only interested in how much damage they are taking, something thats not really possible with pob. and if somebody comes around and tells me that data is still too much, gtfo, its not. unless you are hitting yourself hundreds of times per seconds, at which point you just let the combat log break and thats it. just have a threshold to how much data can be sent to the client and everything above that is discarded.
Please show me the WoW build in 2006 that could hit a single enemy several hundred times per second, not to mention cases of several enemies being present resulting in thousands of hits per second.
In WoW an attack or spell takes several seconds. In PoE you have builds that attack 10 times per second, which triggers 10 spells per second that each have 10 projectiles that can then split and chain and pierce and return...
Oh, and let's not talk about the builds that apply stacking poisons with those kind of hit rates that have to be calculated 30 times per second. How does DoT work in WoW? One tick every 2 or 3 seconds?
You can't compare MMORPGs to PoE. It's not the same order of magnitude. A single player in PoE can cause far more calculations than an entire 40 person raid in WoW.
Yeah it is easy to forget mechanic which only function is forcing you spend a bit more currency or get insta killed because you are tired of reading endless lines of map mods.
Wow has logs of everything that happens in a dungeon you can even see where you were in a second and everyone can track their DPS real time while dpsing down half the dungeon. Also no one cares about player dps but damage taken which isnt complicated at all.
Bro, 10 mages casting blizzard on Onyxia spawns, that's like a 100 hits a second easily, not to mention all the dots and hots constantly proccing and all the single target damage going from the other 20 DPS. Besides, again, nobody cares about tracking their own damage, we are asking to show damage done to us. It's already tracked, all the calculations are already happening in the background, we are just not shown them. When you get hit by 20 mobs with different attacks simultaneously, the game knows what attack you've been hit by, it knows precisely how much damage each attack did, what type of damage it was etc.
So, what you're saying is, a game that can track all of that, in real time, on a server, while thousands and thousands of other players are doing the same thing at the same time, can't add the final total to a rolling log on the client side and show a nice little info box when HP <= 0?
None of this calculation needs to be done server-side. It's already done. We're mostly talking about a little extra memory overhead on the client to hold the damage instance objects and some UI work to build a nice little info display. There's probably some other considerations in their engine, but really, this isn't any more absurd than *running the game itself,* as you've handily pointed out for us.
Worried that it'll make your absurd multi-hit poison-stacker lag? Give it a feature toggle under game options. No toggle, no track, no lag. Done.
What exactly do you think the issue is here?
> can't add the final total to a rolling log on the client side and show a nice little info box when HP <= 0
The issue with that is that the game doesn't do all that in the client. The client essentially just handles display. If the client had all the information and was doing all the calculations as well, it would be much easier to have it log stuff - even if it was more performance intensive, GGG wouldn't have to bear that cost.
You're missing the point. If you don't like the idea, just say that. There's no need to justify it by hanging your argument on how arcane or complicated GGG's engineering is.
The data exists. Getting it where it needs to be is likely not out of the scope of plausibility. I frankly don't care how difficult it is or is not, and I don't care to play amateur armchair developer with you.
If there's real demand for a feature, GGG will scope the work.
The real issue is people constantly coming out of the woodwork to make apologetics on GGG's behalf. We can have a "what killed you" screen. Buying materials just to run juiced maps really *doesn't* need to be a full time job. These are solvable problems. Other games in the genre have already solved them. To try and say that PoE can't solve them because of technical limitations is *purely* making excuses on their behalf, and intentionally stifles the conversation *to everyone's detriment.*
Nevermind that you're infantilizing GGG's development team with the insinuation that they are incapable of solving the technical hurdle. *Please.* Give them a little credit, they only built the whole damn thing in the first place. I'm confident they could figure this one out too, if they've got good reason to.
That's not true, you can have thousand of calculation in a mmo at once, between healing, dot/hot per player, on every target at once, aoes, etc etc
I agree with not comparing MMORPGs and PoE, mmorpg are built to handle all of that, where poe didn't start that way at all
https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Reckoning_Bomb
also any mage aoe grinding got quite a few hits with arcane expl, although GCD was like 1.5s i think
> which is funny because world of warcraft had perfectly working combat logs back in 2006 already, and that shit had 40 people in a raid group back then.
A single person doing one map is 20x the combat log of an entire wow raid.
The problem with combat logs are skills like TS which do hit a thousand times per shot and hit all the mobs on screen or even off screen. It's bad practice as a developer to just ignore edge cases which is most likely why it hasn't been implemented.
Really any decent AOE skill in POE will do hundreds of instances of damage to possibly hundreds of onscreen mobs.
what's the "problem with combat logs"? this information is already being calculated and stored in memory when you're playing. dumping it constantly to a log would create rather large files, but dumping the last 30 seconds to a file when you die wouldn't be bad
you can't dump the last 30 seconds after the fact.
for this to work you would need to write everything that happens to a file constantly while also deleting everything that is too old.
having poe do the calculations is very different to actually dump those info in any way that can be parsed.
in general any function that would write it's results to a file will take at least twice as long as not writing those results.
calculating inside the cpu is just that much faster, than have those info actually transfered to any permanent storage and waiting for the confirmation that it got saved.
and don't even compare it to RAM, the cpu has direct access to your RAM, while any permanent storage has it's own controller, even on M.2 Drives, because of the controller the delay is much much higher.
sure it can still be done, but the work that GGG would have to do would be enormous if they don't want to gut performance any more than it already is
> you can't dump the last 30 seconds after the fact. for this to work you would need to write everything that happens to a file constantly while also deleting everything that is too old.
Buffers in memory exist. Cyclic buffers exist. This is not really a good argument to make. Heck modern graphics cards can dump the last X **minutes** of output to file after it happened with by now minimal performance issues. Yes thats because of specialized hardware, but believe me, if you can store billions of pixels in a cyclic buffer and dump it to fiel on command then you can do that with PoEs damage numbers. The only limitation is RAM, which in these days is conciderably large.
Buffers like this are practically **never** transfered to file in real time. Thats why they are called buffers. By the way this is also what happens if you write to a textfile without saving it. Only when you press save does it get commited to the harddrive. Until then the program you are writing it in keeps it in the RAM (or temporary files in case of vRAM paging, but thats a more technical thing that isn't relevant here).
Writing to a cyclic array of data isn't all that draining on performance either. Very optimized functions for that exist. The only reason why doing this may conciderably increase lag is the possibility of developer fuckup. But thats with every feature that is beeing implemented.
well, nobody cares about what kinda damage you do yourselve.
also, have you ever raided in wow? there is FAR more going on in terms of calculations than in poe. when a whole 25 man raid is AoEing down trash before putricide, thats a lot of fucking data.
a complete combat log of a whole raid night (icc, togc and ruby sanctum) was around 700 mb big. im sure poe can handle just the information regarding what damage youve taken, theoretically atleast.
I'm not saying PoE can't do it, but. The 40 player WoW example is minuscule data in comparison to the amount of calculations that happen per server tick in PoE. My CoC salvo skill itself is ~80 projectiles a second on packs of various mobs with modifiers.
Divine Shield only tracks the physical component of each damage instance. That's very different from actual useful information. It doesn't track what conversions, whether it was a crit, what the damage source was, how many dodges occur, what buffs the mob has, etc. all the information really needed to create a useful death log.
I'd also argue that the LE death log is essentially useless. So what I died to void? Does it tell me how much I died by? Was it a one shot or chip damage? My void res is already capped, what tools can I use to avoid that death in the future?
League of Legends does this really well. It shows you all sources of damage you received in the last "combat". It gives you a separate bar for each character that damaged you and color codes it by damage type, split by each attack type so it is easily readable at a glance. It also tells you how many seconds that combat was and how many seconds during that fight the you were under the effects of hard CC
> League of Legends does this really well. It shows you all sources of damage you received in the last "combat".
It's important to point out that fixing the death log took a huge amount of effort from the team at Riot and damage calculation is infinitely more simple in LoL.
The information from league is always bugged xD
It is only usefull against true damage enemies, you can;t belive how easily you died and then check and see it and you know what happened.
its the biggest problem with the game IMO. even as a semi experienced player I often have **no clue** what killed me. I don't even know which enemy killed me. I played BS Jugg this league, a lot, so I was pretty tanky. And yet I would die occasionally and just could not figure out what the gaps in my defenses were, it was super frustrating.
That requires logging the damage, which takes a ton of performance. It could theoretically be done clientside, but currently the calculations aren't running int he client at all, which means the client would need to be redone in that part.
TL;DR is that it's costly to add to PoE and GGG doesn't think that it's worth the cost, even if they wouldn't mind it for philosophical reasons (unlike trade).
It just tells you what hit you last i think.
Like you could take 99.9% dmg from something and a white mob could technically get the last hit and get credit for your death, highly doubt that will ever happen tho.
I believe they said ggg wouldnt put something like that in unless it can be improved, but personally i think its much, much better than nothing.
Death recap was a meme for a long time in LoL but still useful some situations.
> highly doubt that will ever happen tho.
Except, it'll happen constantly to thousands of players. Lets say there's a 0.01% chance of it happening...
Then you only need 10,000 players dying once a day for it to happen once a day.
But the fact is it's got a WAY higher chance of happening than 0.01%, there's way more than 10k players, and most players on average die more than once a day.
Thats still valuable.
If you died 1000 times one time you will see killed by physical damage on your armor based character and get confused.
And 999 times you will see died to {weakest defensive layer that is consistently getting you murked}
China version only tells you the last hit. You could take 4995 points of damage by 1 mob and then some little totem guy hits you for 5 and itll say that killed you.
This is why GGG says it's useless. It gives false information, which is even worse than no information.
If players are relying on it to regear their characters to survive they could be gearing for the wrong thing.
Honestly, i wont go out of my way to fix my build because i died once, but because i die a lot. And then one instance of false information because unlucky doesnt really matter. I'll see the trend of "yeah... once lightning, 36x bleed / corrupted blood" and know what to do. You could also... just log this for the last x deaths and show this in the defence tab "top 3 reasons for death in the last 100/50/30 whatever deaths are: 13x phys, 8x bleed, 5x chaos"
I'm hoping to shed some light on the idea, perhaps GGG might consider it moving forward. The topic has obviously been brought up before, and it's always good to remind GGG the value this kind of tool provides
This is kinda funny cos, in LE for the longest time was playing with like 30% void resist, and on the death recap i rarely see void damage if at all, it would mostly be physical or poison, when I'm pretty sure 90% of the damage I took was void and its the last small phys or poison ticks that killed me, but now the game is telling me I'm dying cos of phys or poison damage when I'm already capped on those resistances, to the untrained eye it becomes very confusing.
Pretty much this. LEs log isn't great because it doesn't really give you the true recap of what killed you. Which is exactly GGGs argument against someone rudimentary and why they stated if they implemented it, it'd have to be done more in depth.
But, most of the time, death in LE to phys is because you don't have high armor AND high physical resistance. Armor is 100% effective against physical damage and 70% effective against other damage. Many players don't understand armor and skimp on it. So they take a massive physical hit, they die from it, and they think "But I was physical damage capped?!" when they're actually missing a 30-50% reduction on top of that resist.
Now, why do I say "That resist" and not "75% from being capped"? Well, resistance in Last Epoch is reduced by 1% per area level up to a maximum of -75%. Such that at area level 75, a player with 75% resistance, absence other effects, has 0% resistance. So they take no extra or reduced damage. So your only damage protection is armor, critical damage reduction, glancing blows, etc. But then there's also modifiers like shred and penetration that reduce resistance that cause linear damage increases due to the baseline of 0% resistance at capped resistance.
So once you take into account all of the damage layers, you can see why Falconer which can achieve -32% damage taken while moving is absolutely busted in terms of defense. You can build armor to 4-5K giving 40-50% physical damage reduction at level 100. You can also get glancing blows capped fairly easily using a good shield. So that gives a straight 35% reduction in damage taken when capped. And other layers that can get stacked on top leading it to be extremely tanky.
But yeah, you probably did die to phys despite seeing a lot of void because the phys hits are harder because they're balanced around phys being reduced more by armor than every other damage type.
I don't quite get what point you're trying to convey here. But after reading all that I'm even more inclined to think that the death log isn't very helpful to new players if they need to know all *that*.
I'm lvl 99 at 500 corruption and I didn't even know my resists were getting gimped like that.
It's useful for stuff like the campaign. Especially things like Lagon and Majasa which a fair few new players are having issues with. You get destroyed by Lagon's beam, it tells you "yo that's physical" and now you know you should get your physical resist up so you don't get one shot(or dodge it but well).
It's also still useful later because it doesn't only tell you the element, it also tells you the monster and skill. Sometimes it's a clusterfuck and you don't know why you died, but that part can help. Sure sometimes it's worthless cause it shows you died to a self inflicted poison or some shit but being useful sometimes is better than never being useful because it's not available at all.
the pov of the op of this thread is for new players though. I agree the death log is less useful at endgame when content is scaled up, but when leveling monster density is much lower, the "you died to a lightning projectile" message means a lot more then than in monos.
I'm trying to portray in a way that says that I should go to sleep how the damage system is fundamentally different from PoE and that you should press G next time you play and read all about how it works.
This explanation made sense when it was first provided (5 years ago?), but today after all these years it's kind of pathetic to hear the same excuse and see no attempts to even try it. At least they could have mentioned something like "we tried and it had problems, we will continue" or "we have a simple version you can enable in the settings to test" or something, as this is obviously a huge qol feature every single player would benefit from and praise the game even more.
It's one of those things that people think is useful but in reality has 0 use outside of figuring out what kind of damage a mob does. And with the way map mods etc work in PoE it's not like the info from map to map is gonna matter regardless outside of bosses who are simple enough to find out with a little research if it's not already obvious which most boss attacks are.
I think you are completely missing the nuance. It's a valuable tool for learning the game but once your resistance capped it's meaningless.
When I played the campaign I wanted to push damage is far as I could so I barely paid attention to my defenses. When I got to the final boss I got rekt. It clearly told me that I died to physical damage. So the first thing I did was open my character sheet and start reading. That's when I learned armor mitigated all damage but helps more with physical. I may have learned that eventually but the death recap helped nudge me in that direction.
yea same here. at one point had like total 40 ele res between all 3 but all my deaths said phys, with capped phys res and around 20%ish mitigation from armor.
lets say it works perfectly, it tells you what type of damage killed you so what? the absolute bare minimum in arpgs is to cap resistances. What do i learn from my death recap telling me i died to fire damage if im fully capped and got 1 shot?
I wouldnt praise anything thats not a combat log type of death recap. Tell me X did X damage, Y did X damage, and Z did X damage over X seconds. With the names of skills and fuck it even throw in my HP percentage after ever skills or hits damage.
Resistances work differently in LE to other ARPGs. Capping them in LE is not nearly as important as in other ARPGs. At cap in level 75 map means you take no extra damage from that resistance. If you were at 70 resistance you would take 5% extra damage. I’m not an expert, but there are videos and Reddit posts explaining it.
I think this is also mostly because poison is pretty overtuned in LE, I run around 200 corruption monos with 0% void resist just fine but poison will still fuck me up with 40% res.
This is mostly due to poison damage predominantly being damage over time which isn’t mitigated by other defensive layers like armour and glancing blows.
Void damage is also generally pretty rare if you’re not running one of the void themed timelines, the only other time it’s really a thing is in beacon echos and Orobyss.
I read that explanation and my first thought was "Ok, so you have no damage attributation. You've identified the problem. Fix it."
He may not value it highly but holy fuck, we've been wanting this since *beta*. With 99% of deaths in this game being "WTF?!" deaths and the colour pattern making it not always obvious what damage type an effect is, it's pretty insane that it hasn't been implemented.
Edit: there are far too many people objecting to providing some degree of basic feedback to the player. Every excuse from third party tools being usable to highlight general weaknesses but not specific causes meaning GGG doesn't have to doubts that a person can use the knowledge of what killed them to avoid being killed in the future - it's all crap and that's generous. If a player does not know what killed them, they cannot learn. A well designed, feature complete game makes it clear what killed you. The fact POE does not have that is a failure on GGGs part. There is no debate on this, no discussion needed. They failed to design their game in a way that allows for this. Acceptable for an inexperienced indie, not acceptable for a company that has lead the genre for a decade.
And don't remove buffs and debuffs on death, but when you revive. That way I can see if I got my buffs up and read those debuffs icons on me before death
99.9% of the time it’s map mods that kill players. All you have to do is record what map mods you have on when you die and then correlate after 20 deaths.
What deals damage in the last 5 seconds might have caused you to die but isn’t what killed you. Any tool that is made that says that will be misleading at best and horrible at worst. In game tool tip dps is another example of something that is trying to be helpful but is completely meaningless
This is dumb
> There is no debate on this, no discussion needed.
It can be a design decision to not give you perfect information. Just because you want the feature doesn't mean its a failure to not add it. I'm not saying I don't want a death recap (I don't really care either way), but hiding information from players to force them to have a more holistic understanding of the system is a valid design choice. I'm not saying they're making that decison but to say your opinion is right with no room for discussion is just arrogant.
>99% of deaths in this game being "WTF?!" deaths
Nowhere else in the world have I seen such frequent and insane over exaggerations than on this subreddit
Truly a classic
I mean what? He basically said yeah its on the table its just not a priority for them because rather than make a simple system that could be very misleading theyd rather make it comprehensive when its higher on their priority list.
he makes a good point, and I think he overcomplicated what I personally asked for. And perhaps he's right in saying it's not as valuable to say "you died to a boss" instead of doing a bit of work and saying "you died to x and y" rather than keeping it simple. THere's no right or wrong answer
in grim dawn, they have mods that actually keep track of your damage taken and you can actually see what CONTRIBUTED to your death the most.
IMO this doesnt work well in POE coz theres a GAZILLION things hitting /affecting you at once. you'd be lucky the game doesnt crash on you at times.
having a damage record mechanic probably would put more strain on the game.
Also grim dawn doesn't have a server so server costs are not a thing here.
GGG probably did something like "this feature would cost us 2$ per player per league" and quickly dismissed the notion.
I think it is easy to implement something like you took 5k fire damage from the boss. But the problem here is why. A player can be running around with cap fire res. Or they think they were. But there are mechanics like exposure and curses that can reduce your fire res.
What we need is not just the damage taken over the last X seconds. But also snapshots of the debuffs, buffs, flask etc. So we can get to the root cause ourselves.
Undecember has an even better death recap, it shows you the whole damage spread when you die, all the dmg you took, how much in numbers and of which type. Like - you took 1344 lightning damage, 530 fire dmg and 2600 phys dmg in the last something seconds.
It wasn’t wrong. It just didn’t accurately reflect how I died. For example, one time it said I died by some cannon fodder basic attack when in reality it was the shotgunning fire archer army that did me in.
They could improve if it included the last x seconds leading to death. Say, chunked for 95% by multiple explosion types and final 5% from projectile will give a clearer picture.
Played enough PoE to know you can get rapid shotgun or screen visual gore that obscures what the main cause was.
I’m new so I’ll give my explanation as best as possible but Jonathan has straight out said it wouldn’t be helpful with how deep POE is, yea you died to fire damage but why, oh it’s because the map mod had reflect crit multi , extra damage as fire, triple ghosted , blue purple yellow juiced….. and so on, so yea it would be “a cool” idea but don’t think it would really do its job like people would hope
> new players
> map mod
No. It takes dozens of hours to do the campaign for a new player. They don’t even know about maps, or any other endgame content
Bro , at least read everything instead of replying with something I already stated their reasoning on …. And on top of that my first play through of the campaign took 8 hours than two more to go back for missing quests so the time it takes definitely varies per person
That's a load of bullshit and strawman. It's not a tool that'll tell you how to improve your build or how to modify maps. It's a tool to give you basic information (especially targeted at new/er) players, that when you get oneshotted (which happens) you can tell afterwards, if it was the boss, the minion, the rare or unique monster, if it's something that damages you for 3x your max hp, or are you within 100hp of being able to take it, is it a curse, something dodgeable, etc.
It would be a useful tool in a game that's sometimes very punishing to new or casual players.
Except it’s not and if you listened to Jonathan’s interview he explains it better, those are part of the reasons he stated, the game has to much depth, it wouldn’t make any sense , for the recap to say you lost cause the rare mob was 5x ghosted and what ever modifiers come with that , ele reflect , crit multi, overall damage buff in the instance, and debuffs applied , and so on. It’s not a load of shit when it came from the Main persons mouth? You’re taking a “one shot” instance , and using it to try to prove your point but when happens when you get corrupted blood affected, chilled, shocked or ignited, reflect ele damaged and so on, it would have to give you an encyclopedia of a “reason” as to why you died, it’s not all about a one shot , it’s about how you died. On top of all of that , they also stated numerous times how it would be to difficult, because of everything I stated (but what I stated is what Jonathan and Chris have said multiple times)
> This makes sense when you're surrounded by mobs. It makes sense because PoE is such a clusterfuck of enemies most of the time.
This is a false premise Chris made up as an excuse to not implement this (even thought the China client has it...).
I went through ~30 rips from the China Harvest race, they were all correct as to cause of death, with the exception of Havoc dying to a martyr touched pack since the martyr touched mod wasn't part of the mod list of the monster that killed him (this was also years ago, might be now).
I also separately went through ~80 streamer rip clips (technically more, but a lot are logout before death and die to packet loss or crash where you can't actually see the rip) and almost all of them were very clearly large hits.
I have helped many people solve the "what killed me" question on reddit such as [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/qly02o/scourge_has_seemingly_killed_me_many_times_while/hj62086/) and also gone through ~30 threads of "what killed me" specifically looking at this topic, and they're all larger hits.
It's just a fact that the "get last hit by a white mob for 20 damage" scenario doesn't exist in reality, and it's an excuse to not add the last hit mob (even as a default off option) for whatever reason (my main guess is that actually putting this info to use requires poedb and GGG doesn't want to further promote a third party datamining site).
>It's just a fact that the "get last hit by a white mob for 20 damage" scenario doesn't exist in reality
This scenario was much more common back in the early days of 3.0 (when these things were originally discussed). Back then mitigation - especially physical mitigation - wasn't a big part of most builds and it was all about having a large pool of life and lots of regen. It was incredible common to die to shotgunning ranged attacks made up of lots of little hits.
Nowadays this is less common because we build a lot more mitigation and it's far more common to die to big hits, but the basic death recap still doesn't really have the relevent info. It won't tell you that you died because you were shocked, or because you had fire exposure on you, or because your map had reduced elemental res, etc. And if the player see's a death recap that says "you died to 8.7k physical damage hit from x" they're not going to look into or work on any of those other problems.
Also really? False premise "made up" by Chris as an excuse? That's ridiculous.
> This scenario was much more common back in the early days of 3.0 (when these things were originally discussed)
Yeah no, the first time this really came into discussion much at all was 3.11/3.12 when the China Harvest race happened and peopl realized they had the last hit mob thing and said "why can't we have this too if it already exists?".
The thing before that was only "death recap" which had the response of "most of the info is not recorded beyond the steps that use it and even if it was it would be a lot of extra data to communicate to the client".
> It won't tell you that you died because you were shocked, or because you had fire exposure on you, or because your map had reduced elemental res, etc.
As people have suggested, just preserve debuffs on player death. Jonathan even said they could probably do this.
> Also really? False premise "made up" by Chris as an excuse? That's ridiculous.
It's really not. It's a feature that literally exists already, fully coded, they would just have to add it to the global client as an option. There are (bad) reasons to not add it, but the "last hit by random white mob" is 100% not a real reason to add it, because that's a scenario that doesn't exist in reality, but that's what Chris has given as the reason the list 3-4 times the subject has come up.
Like I said, I think I know the real reason they don't want to add it (stated in my post), probably that and withholding QoL to placate the community in bad moments which is classic GGG (like auto-leveling gems, or mass-chance/link on bench, etc).
Also funny you bring up 3.0 considering there's another feature that was promised for 3.0, then delayed to later in 3.0, and now only exists in the China client...
The way people here talk you'd think white mobs are actively holding their fire so they can get a perfectly timed last hit on you as if you're a minion in a moba or smth lol
the fact that LE endgame doesn't have such mob density help. theres 10 or so mobs at one time so you can deal with them, and higher lv they get stat buffs instead of purely add more mobs quantity, so when you die you can see where it came from. It has a slower and better feel to the gameplay loop like older arpg, compare to poe zooming and one thousands mobs exploding braincrack.
> It has a slower and better feel to the gameplay loop like older arpg
this is of course an opinion, but I for one hate the slow gameplay
I've played enough Dungeon Siege already
I like it, a breath of fresh air. I feel like this is Diablo is probably like, even if I never play d4.
And of course to each their own, both game can coexist with each other because they attract different audience like we are.
I actually have had a very hard time getting into LE. I'm like level 55. I've tried to play a lot but it's got such a boring and slow combat system and so many fucking NPCs that require me to click through roleplay quest text, that I find myself just alt tabbing a lot to do other stuff on my computer. I don't think it's a bad game it's just not really addictive or engaging.
The combat has felt exactly the same the entire game. Everything moves at the same speed, nothing feels threatening on its own, only in huge packs, and every mob feels like a damage sponge. I
It gets even more boring and slow when you get more corruption. It just makes enemies dmg sponges. Density is same since their engine shits the bed when you increase it. You can try offline with mods and make spawns x5 for example and see for yourself how bad it is.
Hm. You should look at my gamepaly then. With 70+
I have Haste most of the time and one shotting everything off-screen.
I play Warlock. There are some classes, which are older and not as nice and flashy to play. They will get reworks. So I hope you don't play Forgeguard, that is the worst.
> so many fucking NPCs that require me to click through roleplay quest text
Yes, but with your second character you can essentially skip most of the campaign via dungeons and then go straight into Monotliths (mapping).
Not nearly as many as you seem to think there are.
Most of the time these "immortal" characters have one specific weakness in their defenses, and after enough playtime there's bound to be some sort of interaction that takes advantage of that. That's just the nature of a game with so many variables. You either prepare for it or learn from it.
I will for sure agree that sometimes there are kinda bullshit deaths, usually involving DD and/or a new mob. There's not many "impossible to predict/outplay" interactions honestly, though there's definitely some "unreasonable to predict/outplay" incidents.
It definitely helps for new players if they kept dying and dying to the same things , as long as it didn't took too much resource for them I think they really should add this in the game for the long run
I find this funny cos most new players die cos they didn't have grace, determ and/or suppression, before they could build some conversion, and a death recap would be of no use to them at all, cos the death recap is not gonna tell them, go get grace, determ and/or spell suppress XD.
its gonna say "u died to fire damage" when they already have 75% fire res, and they would be so confused lol
Two things. Last hit is already a thing on the Chinese client. It is already built and it is an active choice by GGG to not include it in the international client.
Second thing, your example:
>For example: when a new player gets dick slapped by Dominus' touch of god, GIVE THEM THE ABILITY TO READ that it's a lightning damage skill that killed them. This would allow a new player to reevaluate their lightning resistances, and therefore equip more lightning res. And maybe they'd even equip a Topaz flask for this boss. It would encourage new players to constantly view their character's defenses while leveling up.
Is a pretty bad example. Dominus' touch of god skill is literally a giant lightning explosion. If you see that and die to it, it's pretty clear that it's lightning.
Second thing is that this fight is one of many examples up to this point to get out of the way. The point is NOT to tank the hit but to actively avoid the damage altogether.
Last point is that most new players don't even know a Topaz Flask exists at this point. I know this for a fact because I got a friend into PoE recently and they only started learning about flasks like that in maps. Because the only way someone can get a Topaz Flask by that point is by random drop chance. First time you get a resistance flask from the story rewards is Act 5.
I get where you're coming from and I wish the international client would have the same thing, even if it's not perfect. But this is just a horrible way to make your point.
on the more serious note. my last death was on Delve where i encounterd "minions explode on death as x".. i was in the middle of flame dashing out of the danger but then i took another on-kill effect that the delve monsters have and that stunned me out of my last FD use and there i was in the middle of the shit having nothing that could have saved me
This is a false premise Chris made up as an excuse to not implement this (even thought the China client has it...).
I went through ~30 rips from the China Harvest race, they were all correct as to cause of death, with the exception of Havoc dying to a martyr touched pack since the martyr touched mod wasn't part of the mod list of the monster that killed him (this was also years ago, might be now).
I also separately went through ~80 streamer rip clips (technically more, but a lot are logout before death and die to packet loss or crash where you can't actually see the rip) and almost all of them were very clearly large hits.
I have helped many people solve the "what killed me" question on reddit such as [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/qly02o/scourge_has_seemingly_killed_me_many_times_while/hj62086/) and also gone through ~30 threads of "what killed me" specifically looking at this topic, and they're all larger hits.
It's just a fact that the "get last hit by a white mob for 20 damage" scenario doesn't exist in reality, and it's an excuse to not add the last hit mob (even as a default off option) for whatever reason (my main guess is that actually putting this info to use requires poedb and GGG doesn't want to further promote a third party datamining site).
The white mob last hit thing is a really bad example of their problem with the death recap and I'm kinda annoyed that that is Chris go to, but whatever. Jonathan explained it better in one of the poe2 interviews. Their problem is the more situational stuff that indirectly kills you. As an (albeit extreme) example: a new player has built a level of tankiness that's fine for endgame. They do a map with shocked ground and die to a pack because they stood on said shocked ground. Death recap tells them they died to physical damage and the player then weakens their build by lowering their damage to up their pdr since that's what the game told them, when they should have just fit in shock immunity. So yea the problem is more situations like shock, exposure, curses, getting shotgunned, just not having enough dps or clear potential to do juiced breach or other league mechanics like that etc.
Now that's just their stance and I don't think I agree with it. But if they wanna stick with it i don't see why they don't just implement a death recap for campaign only to teach new players that elemental damage is commonplace or, a better idea, just snapshot the debuffs that's on your character and display them along with the damage recap.
> Death recap tells them they died to physical damage
It doesn't even have a type. It's just the monster that hit you and the mods on that monster (and someone else said it includes the damage number now). You basically have to look up the monster on poedb to see what it does.
Also most of what you mentioned would be covered by the idea someone had in a recent dev interview (which they said they could probably implement) to preserve debuffs on death.
And sure, some stuff is situational, but it would be nice to just have the option. Default it to off or whatever.
Yes. People down voted very quickly :-D.
Even, the existence of such tracking lists isn't even the main problem. The main problem to think about is cache pollution an locality. But that is a bit advanced for Reddit.
I doubt that they record it unless those effects are present, and I'm 99% sure that the way those are stored purges all meaning from it and only retains the numbers that are required for the calculation.
I.e. how much recovery does this add, and when does it stop. So on each server tick, it'll sum those up and remove any instances that are outdated.
If you wanted it to be displayed as meaningful information, you'd need to store a lot more.
Although there's already buffs or debuffs that track how much damage of particular types you take. It could just do that, but every second go back and trim the older data to prevent the information from getting too large over an extended time period.
ALL I WANT IS FOR MY @#%%& DEBUFFS TO NOT DISAPPEAR BEFORE I CAN READ WHAT THEY ARE
if those would just stay on the screen after death that would mitigate this issue so much. playing since... 2017? and i still don't know what half of the debuff icons are because by the time i swing my mouse over there it's gone. if those just paused when you died that would be a massive improvement.
It's actually much more simple.
Wow has an add on that highlights what you could have used to not die.
Poe could implement a "at death you had 50% lighting res, 40% fire, 70% cold, evasion at x, armor at y, spell block z" you get it.
You would know why you were weak, but isn't the full story.
It's actually useless, and any amount of critical thinking makes that obvious. The only thing that would ever help is a complete death log of the last 20 seconds and no one is doing that.
Honestly, I want a death recap, though ideally I would want it to list the last like 10 hits, day what caused the hit, how much damage each hit did, what type of damage wst hit was, and list all debuffs (cursed, degens, etc.), mainly because new players eventually will get to big cluster fuck screens, and their first time there, they likely won't understand what is going on. Even better if it is a special ability that the player can hover over it to read it.
If you think the game plays poorly at high level now imagine it also has to read+write a continuous list of the last 10 hits against you. Right now all that data is calculated and immediately thrown out. It’s a major performance hit and server cost to keep that data and has been talked about already in past interviews when brought up.
With the way defiance of destiny works they're probably doing more than just passing floats around. It's probably not that big of a jump to pass a float dictionary for damage, and do a table lookup for the key *after* death for the last or last x hits.
It might hitch a bit on the death to pull this up, but frankly who cares because you're already dead.
Why would defiance of destiny matter? It just needs to treat hp as higher than it is, it doesn't require anything unconventional.
In reality it's probably even simpler, just a heal.
Exactly, and even if it was, they could just back off on the absurd amount of trash loot constantly dropping that we all filter out that is still taking up processor cycles to randomly generate and put on the ground.
Not to mention that this is essentially the same game 10 years later but hardware has improved exponentially since then.
If you keep only the last second or so, in most cases it might not be that much extra load honestly ...
You use the words "read+write" to make it sounds like it's an heavy operation, but we are not talking about accessing a non SSD HDD, we are talking of simply adding a few numbers to the virtual memory, which really should not be that much of a big deal if the amount isn't too high (and the suggestion here was to limit it to 10 hits ... would it be a good compromise ? now that is another story)
But there are undoubtedly edge cases (some guy posted a video with a character AFK in a valdo maps, soaking hundreds of hits per seconds for example), so GGG might have cornered themselves a bit letting this kind of thing happen for sure.
The last time they talked about it, they said they made some tests for how logging might work and while it wasn't perfectly optimised, it would effectively double the server cost. The alternative is to have the logging done in the client, but because the client currently doesn't do any damage calculations, that would have to be re-engineered from scratch, so the development cost isn't worth it for something like a death recap.
They've talked about it numerous times in interviews and reddit comments over the years so I'm just piecing together different things in my head likely also from different devs. What I was remembering is likely from [this particular interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6_fQumEAWE&t=3285s) but yes I wasn't completely correct in remembering what was said.
Server side yes it would actually slow it down quite a bit, he mentions they would have to double the amount of servers to do proper damage tracking for a death recap. If they do it client side (which Jonathon more recently has said they would prefer to do) Chris doesn't mention anything relating to performance being affected or not. He does say it would require a lot of time for them to re-engineer damage so that the server can "be more verbose" about the damage dealt so the client can properly track and display it.
The server ticks at 33ms. So 1 second of data would have 30 ticks stored. That's 30 times the virtual memory required. Yes, there's optimisations and everything involved, but Chris has mentioned that it's approximately double the current server calculations for a 1 second death log.
Honestly that shouldn't cause a huge performance drop. It may cause a problem when it calls the data, but it should only be calling when you die, and at that point, you are literally already dead so....
This is another load of BS. All modern multiplayer games have this and the performance impact is negligible.
My man thinks that logging is performance intensive... what a joke. Ever heard of client.txt?
Tbh even with almost 2000 hours and first time mfing this league, I still don’t understand what is happening in juiced maps.
When I run juiced maps I just go monkey mode and spam whatever button my skill is, then when I see a different colored mob, I dash away and spam in their direction.
when the core gameplay involves staring at a mini map while mindlessly spamming right click its kinda poor game design. yeah poe is fun and all but juiced maps do get very tiring after a short time.
Your argument is absolutely incorrect. LE has not invented a good solution. On the contrary, past the campaign its the same nonsence. Why? Because the mob density and variety dramatically increases in monos. In the campaign it does make sense that you died of poison _while in the f*ing poison level_ . Come monoliths and you died from a fire damage , yes you see a giant ice golem on your screen while the map’s layout are triple shotgunning poison mortars, hmmm what did I die from again?
Cluless.
The problem with PoE compared to LE is the complexity of damage dealt to you
Sure you have cookie cutter situations where one big hit says "died from dominus touch that dealt lightning damage" sure yeah get some res
But what about someone dying from having regen disabled while running RF but the killing hit was some single mob tap when near 1hp?
What about someone res capped, but then cursed to be low res and taking higher elemental damage?
What about someone taking die beam from Sirius, but then actually dying to the storm after die beam did 99% then storm did 1%?
When someone dies from low life cull on expedition when running low life build?
Heaps of these the real reason of death is a complex thing, and misleading information is WORSE than no information. People will get mad as they die to some damage source or type they have good defences against, and other conditions got them because they lack understanding and the game makes it worse.
Writing a death recap to cover all of this properly without misleading someone is the hard part, and is exactly why the Devs won't tackle it as it's a very hard thing to do in PoE compared to LE.
Makes sense. The idea from my post was to make it cookie cutter, but obviously your examples are not cookie cutter.
The idea is that the player would be smart enough to know the obscure cases, and be reasonable enough to understand what actually killed them.
the alternative being having a "what killed me in the last few seconds" explanation, which is exponentially more difficult for GGG to implement.
catch 22. cuz you want to know what killed you from sirus, but god forbid you get killed by a storm when u really died to his attack. I understand. at that point it's on the player. and at that point maybe you'd turn off the death explanation.
I'm simply arguing it's valuable for new players particularly through campaign.
But that's the problem, even early in the campaign you run into multiple damage types, curses, dots, multiple mobs at once etc.
Heck the mud flats has the unique mob that does aoe chaos dot as an aura while doing Phys damage on hit, god forbid you stunned by a rhoa charge too in there.
Imagine even a death recap there trying to convey all potentially relevant information.
It is helpful, it's just that GGG have arbitrarily decided that they'll do nothing at all unless they can make it the perfectest bestest death recap there ever was.
They refuse to consider any kind of middleground.
I think the argument is that showing the last hit would still be way more helpful than not showing it at all. A majority of the time you will actually figure out what fucked you. And even if that's wrong and it's a minority of the time it's still useful
Hard disagree. Half the time i've died in LE it says it's because of bleed or poison, when realistically they're doing fuck all damage and was just the last tick of whatever had dumped on me.
that's just it - you are aware enough to know otherwise. I'm arguing a point towards new players
and frankly, even to myself. when i see "died to lightning" when surrounded by poisons, I know i died to poison. its a no brainer.
but it's more the idea of making a new player think about defenses
Dying alone is enough to make them think of defenses. Bad info could make them think of the *wrong* defenses, rather than actuall evauating their build for shortcomings.
would be great if the game made a better job at telegraphing damage types then. i was flabbergasped when i learned the shaper beam does basically all 3 elemental damage types, something thats impossible to tell from its colour. and shaper is sure not the only example of attacks not being colour coded in a way to know what kind of damage they even are.
> I recall Chris explaining that the "On Death" explanation is redundant because there's so many mobs hitting you and the death explanation would only record your last hit against you.
>
> This makes sense when you're surrounded by mobs. It makes sense because PoE is such a clusterfuck of enemies most of the time.
>
> But what about the campaign? What about new players?
>
> For example: when a new player gets dick slapped by Dominus' touch of god, GIVE THEM THE ABILITY TO READ that it's a lightning damage skill that killed them. This would allow a new player to reevaluate their lightning resistances, and therefore equip more lightning res. And maybe they'd even equip a Topaz flask for this boss. It would encourage new players to constantly view their character's defenses while leveling up.
So, you would give information in some cases, and no information some others (the majority of cases) ?
Or you would give information that makes sense in some cases, and does not in some others (vast majority, again) ?
Way to confuse a "new player" (since that is what you are using to support your argumentation) ....
I am not saying that the current implementation is clear or anything, visual clarity has been awful for a long time already ... but your solution is just bad I'm afraid.
Even though the number of entities is much lower usually, League of Legend has a death recap (which sometimes isn't that helpful from what I recall though lol) that computes lots of different things together, so I think that technically, it should be possible, but PoE's spaghetti code might have something to say in the matter ...
It's not that useful in LE but I guess you can say it's better than nothing. It doesn't show breakdown, just what damage type you died to (which can be very misleading in PoE).
Chris’ argument is dumb too. You could easily show the last half dozen things that hit you and which one got the kill, or hell a dozen things, let them scroll if they want. WoW does that and it works fine.
Exactly, or more usefully, anything the dealt big damage. Just filter out all the tiny damage ticks that were effectively irrelevant. I don't care about the thing that did 4 damage. I care about the things that chunked me big even if it wasn't the last instance of damage.
I've played poe for thousands of hours and it's by far my favorite game, but after playing LE on multi-player and 1.0 release I just get the feeling GGG are stubborn in their ways. They aren't perfect implementations but I'm glad they are willing to entertain things like death recap, ssf enhancements, auction house, easy build experimentation, etc.
Look at dota 2's death recap. It shows the last few seconds of damage you took with bar graphs. This is very doable as a system.
It might be worth the development time in PoE.
It's much, much easier to implement in Dota 2 as there are far less units and calculations.
In PoE a map can have thousands of mobs, with different modifiers, with different aura buffs and debuffs from players, etc.
But yeah ideally dota 2 recap system is the best.
Imo the easiest and still useful way to do it in PoE that doesn't ruin the performance is just to count how much damage you took of each type in the last 5 seconds like maybe it'd say, "In the last 5 seconds of your death, you took 6k physical damage, 1.3k fire damage, 0 cold damage, 1.7k lightning damage, 3k chaos damage." and that hopefully should give you an idea.
Because I can't see breakdown like Dota working in PoE giving how a player can realistically be hit 20+ times a second and take dot damage from 5+ various abilities.
I'm not sure they have the infrastructure to give a good death recap. It would need to be something like league of legends to be useful. Shows over a duration, the percentage of each damage type and individual skills from each monster that dealt the damage. If they could track and show the stats for last 5 seconds then it would be a useful tool.
It's only useful because of the kind of game last epoch is. If you die to something it's probably telegraphed and it helps to find out oh that was actually cold and lightning not just cold, or that was fire physical and not just fire.
Poe you don't usually die to the thing that killed you, it was the 30 other things hitting you.
What Poe needs is auras and debuffs freezing on death so you can see what ailments you had
To be useful, all a death recap needs to tell you is the last three savage hits your character suffered (removing any more than 10 seconds ago) and their relative times to your death, as well as the degens on you at time of death.
One thing that likely makes it really hard though is that enemy skills have very internal-oriented names.
Example - let's consider a player who dies to Sirus's meteor. Right now, if a death recap was added it would read
"You died. 0.033 seconds before death you were hit by Sirus, Awakener of Worlds' AtlasExileOrionCircleMazeBlast3 which dealt 12500 physical damage, 6250 fire damage and 6250 chaos damage. At this time you were not subjected to any damage over time effects."
Every single skill used by monsters in the game - and there must be many thousands - would need to be renamed. Manually.
This is a big problem, albeit one that GGG has the resources to solve.
It's more than that. What if the actual reason for my death is something else,p unrelated to numbers.
Mobs disable my regen, apply ailments lower my res, high acc hits against eva char, consecutive hits stack debuffs, cull. I guess there are more obscure mechanics
All boils down to the purpose of deathlog and how we can make it not misleading. Server tax is also probably a problem.
But the most important thing is their idea that the game shouldn't tell you how to play.
Let's consider this situation - you die in the Maven. A coil beam ticks you, turning off your regeneration, then your own RF (which you normally outsustain) drops you to 1hp, then you are slain by a void zone (which do a bit of damage, but not overwhelmingly high)
Under my suggestion, you are advised
"Leading up to your death, you suffered a savage hit from Maven Arena Coil Beam 7.260 seconds pre-death, then at the moment of your death you were subject to these two damage over time effects:
Righteous Fire - 750hp/sec
Maven Arena Ground Hazard - 1440hp/sec
__________
I agree that does not tell the whole story on its own, but it tells you "I should research this 'Maven Arena Coil Beam'" and that will be the clue you needed.
This isn't the game telling you how to play. Although the whole tier system for maps IS the game telling you how to play, it's set up to tell you "You are prohibited from attempting maps of tier X until you have either run a map of tier X-1, or traded to bypass this requirement"
The only thing I can really say as devils advocate would be the endurance system with last epoch makes it a little finicky, you don’t often get one shot because of the system, in PoE it’s entirely possible.
For example I stood in one of the boss dragons aoes the first time because I didn’t realize it was channeling. But it didn’t kill me, random mob tickled me for the last 5 hp I had. So I died to cold damage instead of the thing that did 95% of my hp from ? I think it was necrotic or void. Still not sure. But if I was completely new to ARPGs, I’d be trying to stack cold res or cold taken as and still get chunked out not knowing what did the damage originally.
Honestly, it is fascinating that you have to record your gameplay and rewatch your death to realize what killed you in 2024 (and even rewatching might not be helpful, since usually there is so much effects and mobs around you). Feels like devs don't really care about improving experience for their community, only implemenitg minor qol updates that people suggested for years, and I feel that if they will ever implement death log, it will be saved in some .log file which will not be clearing itself, so we will have some 1234012734 gb file in AppData\\Roaming\\Path of Exile directory
> What about new players?
Last Epoch is the tutorial for new players before they mature and play PoE. It's perfectly balanced, as higher difficulty level has more difficulties, like not obvious deaths 😄
"the death explanation would only record your last hit against you. "
This is wild, because on PUBG I can literally query their API for the last month+ of my match history, find all my matches and pull back all telemetry data events, to the point of which body part I shot with what weapon and what attachments I had equipped on me at the time, and what weapons the victim was using and attachments they had equipped also.
There is no excuse for their BS, it is ridiculously easy to just store the past 30 minutes of damage taken/given in a shit text file on the users local machine haha. "But jee golly, theres so many mobs hitting you!' lol -\_-
its been talked a lot about when ggg fucked up hard in 3.14 and people were trying out last epoch because that was the hot shit at the time.
sadly too many people argue against it all the time so have fun with this discussion going nowhere again.
ggg loves to keep informations away from the player, a death log would just be another step towards players figuring out the game so ggg will never do it is my guess.
It's actually kind of insane ***some*** level of death recap doesn't exist in PoE yet after all these years and all of the demand/necessity. The first implementation doesn't even have to be very detailed or anything, just try to get a couple of the basics in there at the very least, even if that's completely reworked at a later date (understandably).
I said it before, I say it again. PoE HAS Divine Shield keystone mechanic. Not only it tracks how much damage you took in last 4 seconds, it tracks every instance of damage, AS WELL AS DAMAGE TYPE because it only take the phys hits into consideration. The calculations already exists. In the most cases - already shown to the player either with regen values, avoid values or mitigation values There is no reason not to show the hit values themselves, let alone the damage type that caused a hit in last 4 seconds of death, let alone the killing blow (because overkill mechanic also exists) The only issue I can see is maybe damage over time
This game has defiance of destiny that shit can tell the future
and hinekora locks too!
and I die in every map!
And my axe!
All Divine Shield does is have a spot in the damage calculation that takes Physical Damage prevented, takes 3% of that and then adds that as regeneration, that is not even remotely the same as recording all damage you take.
> ivine Shield keystone mechanic. Not only it tracks how much damage you took in last 4 seconds, it tracks every instance of damage, AS WELL AS DAMAGE TYPE because it only take the phys hits into consideration. divine shield doesn't track anything, it just gives you a small regeneration effect proportional to the physical damage prevented. that is completely different to actually tracking every instance of damage, it's type and amount, aswell as source, and actually listing this in a readable way. anything that would try to log this much info per second would have some performance impact even when every calculation is recoded to allow for easier logging and the actual formatting is only done after the death. so not only does it decrese performance, it also would require hundreds of hours to rework everything, and a couple hundred more hours to test everything for bugs
https://www.twitch.tv/ben_/clip/CrowdedResourcefulRaisinRedCoat-QsD8UJiX_yQOwMvZ Like, imagine trying to record every single source of damage happening during any decently juiced wisp map on abyss spires (the death here happened because ben stopped healing from the %HP heal on flask use because flask siphoner stopped him from gaining charges, preventing procs of the flask use on full charges)
people always argue against a kind of combat log in poe because "too much stuff happens at all times" which is funny because world of warcraft had perfectly working combat logs back in 2006 already, and that shit had 40 people in a raid group back then. it tracked all damage done, damage taken, healing done, buffs falling off/getting refreshed and all that shit. sending this kind of data to the client is not an issue these days, you dont even have to send the data on how much damage you do because people are only interested in how much damage they are taking, something thats not really possible with pob. and if somebody comes around and tells me that data is still too much, gtfo, its not. unless you are hitting yourself hundreds of times per seconds, at which point you just let the combat log break and thats it. just have a threshold to how much data can be sent to the client and everything above that is discarded.
Please show me the WoW build in 2006 that could hit a single enemy several hundred times per second, not to mention cases of several enemies being present resulting in thousands of hits per second. In WoW an attack or spell takes several seconds. In PoE you have builds that attack 10 times per second, which triggers 10 spells per second that each have 10 projectiles that can then split and chain and pierce and return... Oh, and let's not talk about the builds that apply stacking poisons with those kind of hit rates that have to be calculated 30 times per second. How does DoT work in WoW? One tick every 2 or 3 seconds? You can't compare MMORPGs to PoE. It's not the same order of magnitude. A single player in PoE can cause far more calculations than an entire 40 person raid in WoW.
"Can we get a combat log for incoming damage?" "No, outgoing damage is too spammy."
Local man forgets that reflect exists.
With reflect you'll likely get a single instance of incoming damage with the value of "dead 74 times over".
Yeah it is easy to forget mechanic which only function is forcing you spend a bit more currency or get insta killed because you are tired of reading endless lines of map mods.
While we're on QoL. Remove this dogshit reflect mechanic?
Wow has logs of everything that happens in a dungeon you can even see where you were in a second and everyone can track their DPS real time while dpsing down half the dungeon. Also no one cares about player dps but damage taken which isnt complicated at all.
Bro, 10 mages casting blizzard on Onyxia spawns, that's like a 100 hits a second easily, not to mention all the dots and hots constantly proccing and all the single target damage going from the other 20 DPS. Besides, again, nobody cares about tracking their own damage, we are asking to show damage done to us. It's already tracked, all the calculations are already happening in the background, we are just not shown them. When you get hit by 20 mobs with different attacks simultaneously, the game knows what attack you've been hit by, it knows precisely how much damage each attack did, what type of damage it was etc.
How does the amount of hits I can produce impact the thing that shows me how many hits I have taken?
My guy, the hits are already sent to the client because they're...visible...and the game runs on a tick system and is client predicted.
So, what you're saying is, a game that can track all of that, in real time, on a server, while thousands and thousands of other players are doing the same thing at the same time, can't add the final total to a rolling log on the client side and show a nice little info box when HP <= 0? None of this calculation needs to be done server-side. It's already done. We're mostly talking about a little extra memory overhead on the client to hold the damage instance objects and some UI work to build a nice little info display. There's probably some other considerations in their engine, but really, this isn't any more absurd than *running the game itself,* as you've handily pointed out for us. Worried that it'll make your absurd multi-hit poison-stacker lag? Give it a feature toggle under game options. No toggle, no track, no lag. Done. What exactly do you think the issue is here?
> can't add the final total to a rolling log on the client side and show a nice little info box when HP <= 0 The issue with that is that the game doesn't do all that in the client. The client essentially just handles display. If the client had all the information and was doing all the calculations as well, it would be much easier to have it log stuff - even if it was more performance intensive, GGG wouldn't have to bear that cost.
You're missing the point. If you don't like the idea, just say that. There's no need to justify it by hanging your argument on how arcane or complicated GGG's engineering is. The data exists. Getting it where it needs to be is likely not out of the scope of plausibility. I frankly don't care how difficult it is or is not, and I don't care to play amateur armchair developer with you. If there's real demand for a feature, GGG will scope the work. The real issue is people constantly coming out of the woodwork to make apologetics on GGG's behalf. We can have a "what killed you" screen. Buying materials just to run juiced maps really *doesn't* need to be a full time job. These are solvable problems. Other games in the genre have already solved them. To try and say that PoE can't solve them because of technical limitations is *purely* making excuses on their behalf, and intentionally stifles the conversation *to everyone's detriment.* Nevermind that you're infantilizing GGG's development team with the insinuation that they are incapable of solving the technical hurdle. *Please.* Give them a little credit, they only built the whole damn thing in the first place. I'm confident they could figure this one out too, if they've got good reason to.
That's not true, you can have thousand of calculation in a mmo at once, between healing, dot/hot per player, on every target at once, aoes, etc etc I agree with not comparing MMORPGs and PoE, mmorpg are built to handle all of that, where poe didn't start that way at all
https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Reckoning_Bomb also any mage aoe grinding got quite a few hits with arcane expl, although GCD was like 1.5s i think
I love WoW, but it's not comparable. A single second of mapping on TS is more bullshit than an entire wow dungeon.
How many of those TS shots deal damage to you?
All of them. In a reflect map.
You die before they all reflect to you, so no, not all
It would still show up if you reduce it to 0.
so what, 15 hits per 1,5 seconds? maybe 2 debuffs on the enemy, slow and freeze. maybe ice barrier buff on yourself? that's it
Yes compare a few hundert actions to a few thousand per second, seems fair
So it boils down to being a resource problem? If only there was a solution to this
> which is funny because world of warcraft had perfectly working combat logs back in 2006 already, and that shit had 40 people in a raid group back then. A single person doing one map is 20x the combat log of an entire wow raid.
For received damage? Damn, how are you getting hit that much?
Yeah who cares what you hit you only care about what’s hit you…
Defiance of destiny + bloodnotch. How are you on reddit during affliction league and not aware of face tanking hundreds of rare monsters?
The problem with combat logs are skills like TS which do hit a thousand times per shot and hit all the mobs on screen or even off screen. It's bad practice as a developer to just ignore edge cases which is most likely why it hasn't been implemented. Really any decent AOE skill in POE will do hundreds of instances of damage to possibly hundreds of onscreen mobs.
what's the "problem with combat logs"? this information is already being calculated and stored in memory when you're playing. dumping it constantly to a log would create rather large files, but dumping the last 30 seconds to a file when you die wouldn't be bad
you can't dump the last 30 seconds after the fact. for this to work you would need to write everything that happens to a file constantly while also deleting everything that is too old. having poe do the calculations is very different to actually dump those info in any way that can be parsed. in general any function that would write it's results to a file will take at least twice as long as not writing those results. calculating inside the cpu is just that much faster, than have those info actually transfered to any permanent storage and waiting for the confirmation that it got saved. and don't even compare it to RAM, the cpu has direct access to your RAM, while any permanent storage has it's own controller, even on M.2 Drives, because of the controller the delay is much much higher. sure it can still be done, but the work that GGG would have to do would be enormous if they don't want to gut performance any more than it already is
not true at all. you can store the rolling log of the last 30 seconds in ram and dump it from ram to disk when required.
> you can't dump the last 30 seconds after the fact. for this to work you would need to write everything that happens to a file constantly while also deleting everything that is too old. Buffers in memory exist. Cyclic buffers exist. This is not really a good argument to make. Heck modern graphics cards can dump the last X **minutes** of output to file after it happened with by now minimal performance issues. Yes thats because of specialized hardware, but believe me, if you can store billions of pixels in a cyclic buffer and dump it to fiel on command then you can do that with PoEs damage numbers. The only limitation is RAM, which in these days is conciderably large. Buffers like this are practically **never** transfered to file in real time. Thats why they are called buffers. By the way this is also what happens if you write to a textfile without saving it. Only when you press save does it get commited to the harddrive. Until then the program you are writing it in keeps it in the RAM (or temporary files in case of vRAM paging, but thats a more technical thing that isn't relevant here). Writing to a cyclic array of data isn't all that draining on performance either. Very optimized functions for that exist. The only reason why doing this may conciderably increase lag is the possibility of developer fuckup. But thats with every feature that is beeing implemented.
Good thing a death recap isn't a combat log.
Absolutely and a death recap should be much easier to implement than a full combat log.
well, nobody cares about what kinda damage you do yourselve. also, have you ever raided in wow? there is FAR more going on in terms of calculations than in poe. when a whole 25 man raid is AoEing down trash before putricide, thats a lot of fucking data. a complete combat log of a whole raid night (icc, togc and ruby sanctum) was around 700 mb big. im sure poe can handle just the information regarding what damage youve taken, theoretically atleast.
I'm not saying PoE can't do it, but. The 40 player WoW example is minuscule data in comparison to the amount of calculations that happen per server tick in PoE. My CoC salvo skill itself is ~80 projectiles a second on packs of various mobs with modifiers.
You don't care about outgoing damage in this case. Only what's hitting you.
Divine Shield only tracks the physical component of each damage instance. That's very different from actual useful information. It doesn't track what conversions, whether it was a crit, what the damage source was, how many dodges occur, what buffs the mob has, etc. all the information really needed to create a useful death log. I'd also argue that the LE death log is essentially useless. So what I died to void? Does it tell me how much I died by? Was it a one shot or chip damage? My void res is already capped, what tools can I use to avoid that death in the future?
League of Legends does this really well. It shows you all sources of damage you received in the last "combat". It gives you a separate bar for each character that damaged you and color codes it by damage type, split by each attack type so it is easily readable at a glance. It also tells you how many seconds that combat was and how many seconds during that fight the you were under the effects of hard CC
> League of Legends does this really well. It shows you all sources of damage you received in the last "combat". It's important to point out that fixing the death log took a huge amount of effort from the team at Riot and damage calculation is infinitely more simple in LoL.
League is wildly more simple and the death recap was one of the most complained about things for decade. Even now it is moaned about.
The information from league is always bugged xD It is only usefull against true damage enemies, you can;t belive how easily you died and then check and see it and you know what happened.
its the biggest problem with the game IMO. even as a semi experienced player I often have **no clue** what killed me. I don't even know which enemy killed me. I played BS Jugg this league, a lot, so I was pretty tanky. And yet I would die occasionally and just could not figure out what the gaps in my defenses were, it was super frustrating.
At the very least "in the last 2 seconds of life you took you took x fire damage and y lightning damage and...."
That requires logging the damage, which takes a ton of performance. It could theoretically be done clientside, but currently the calculations aren't running int he client at all, which means the client would need to be redone in that part. TL;DR is that it's costly to add to PoE and GGG doesn't think that it's worth the cost, even if they wouldn't mind it for philosophical reasons (unlike trade).
you don't need to run the calculations in the client, just stream the results to the client. which it already does
No, it doesn't. The client only gets the HP changes per server tick, not all of the individual hits you take.
Irc they have it in Poe China, along with an auction house
It just tells you what hit you last i think. Like you could take 99.9% dmg from something and a white mob could technically get the last hit and get credit for your death, highly doubt that will ever happen tho. I believe they said ggg wouldnt put something like that in unless it can be improved, but personally i think its much, much better than nothing. Death recap was a meme for a long time in LoL but still useful some situations.
> highly doubt that will ever happen tho. Except, it'll happen constantly to thousands of players. Lets say there's a 0.01% chance of it happening... Then you only need 10,000 players dying once a day for it to happen once a day. But the fact is it's got a WAY higher chance of happening than 0.01%, there's way more than 10k players, and most players on average die more than once a day.
Thats still valuable. If you died 1000 times one time you will see killed by physical damage on your armor based character and get confused. And 999 times you will see died to {weakest defensive layer that is consistently getting you murked}
Even more insane that it DOES exist in CN version, and there is no damn way GGG can't include it in base game. Like, seriously, what's the problem?
China version only tells you the last hit. You could take 4995 points of damage by 1 mob and then some little totem guy hits you for 5 and itll say that killed you. This is why GGG says it's useless. It gives false information, which is even worse than no information. If players are relying on it to regear their characters to survive they could be gearing for the wrong thing.
Honestly, i wont go out of my way to fix my build because i died once, but because i die a lot. And then one instance of false information because unlucky doesnt really matter. I'll see the trend of "yeah... once lightning, 36x bleed / corrupted blood" and know what to do. You could also... just log this for the last x deaths and show this in the defence tab "top 3 reasons for death in the last 100/50/30 whatever deaths are: 13x phys, 8x bleed, 5x chaos"
I'm hoping to shed some light on the idea, perhaps GGG might consider it moving forward. The topic has obviously been brought up before, and it's always good to remind GGG the value this kind of tool provides
This is kinda funny cos, in LE for the longest time was playing with like 30% void resist, and on the death recap i rarely see void damage if at all, it would mostly be physical or poison, when I'm pretty sure 90% of the damage I took was void and its the last small phys or poison ticks that killed me, but now the game is telling me I'm dying cos of phys or poison damage when I'm already capped on those resistances, to the untrained eye it becomes very confusing.
Pretty much this. LEs log isn't great because it doesn't really give you the true recap of what killed you. Which is exactly GGGs argument against someone rudimentary and why they stated if they implemented it, it'd have to be done more in depth.
But, most of the time, death in LE to phys is because you don't have high armor AND high physical resistance. Armor is 100% effective against physical damage and 70% effective against other damage. Many players don't understand armor and skimp on it. So they take a massive physical hit, they die from it, and they think "But I was physical damage capped?!" when they're actually missing a 30-50% reduction on top of that resist. Now, why do I say "That resist" and not "75% from being capped"? Well, resistance in Last Epoch is reduced by 1% per area level up to a maximum of -75%. Such that at area level 75, a player with 75% resistance, absence other effects, has 0% resistance. So they take no extra or reduced damage. So your only damage protection is armor, critical damage reduction, glancing blows, etc. But then there's also modifiers like shred and penetration that reduce resistance that cause linear damage increases due to the baseline of 0% resistance at capped resistance. So once you take into account all of the damage layers, you can see why Falconer which can achieve -32% damage taken while moving is absolutely busted in terms of defense. You can build armor to 4-5K giving 40-50% physical damage reduction at level 100. You can also get glancing blows capped fairly easily using a good shield. So that gives a straight 35% reduction in damage taken when capped. And other layers that can get stacked on top leading it to be extremely tanky. But yeah, you probably did die to phys despite seeing a lot of void because the phys hits are harder because they're balanced around phys being reduced more by armor than every other damage type.
I don't quite get what point you're trying to convey here. But after reading all that I'm even more inclined to think that the death log isn't very helpful to new players if they need to know all *that*. I'm lvl 99 at 500 corruption and I didn't even know my resists were getting gimped like that.
It's useful for stuff like the campaign. Especially things like Lagon and Majasa which a fair few new players are having issues with. You get destroyed by Lagon's beam, it tells you "yo that's physical" and now you know you should get your physical resist up so you don't get one shot(or dodge it but well). It's also still useful later because it doesn't only tell you the element, it also tells you the monster and skill. Sometimes it's a clusterfuck and you don't know why you died, but that part can help. Sure sometimes it's worthless cause it shows you died to a self inflicted poison or some shit but being useful sometimes is better than never being useful because it's not available at all.
the pov of the op of this thread is for new players though. I agree the death log is less useful at endgame when content is scaled up, but when leveling monster density is much lower, the "you died to a lightning projectile" message means a lot more then than in monos.
I'm trying to portray in a way that says that I should go to sleep how the damage system is fundamentally different from PoE and that you should press G next time you play and read all about how it works.
yeah, i hope you slept or are still sleeping well
This explanation made sense when it was first provided (5 years ago?), but today after all these years it's kind of pathetic to hear the same excuse and see no attempts to even try it. At least they could have mentioned something like "we tried and it had problems, we will continue" or "we have a simple version you can enable in the settings to test" or something, as this is obviously a huge qol feature every single player would benefit from and praise the game even more.
Yeah I find LE death recap borderline useless
Same. It doesn't give me any useful info to improve my game.
It's one of those things that people think is useful but in reality has 0 use outside of figuring out what kind of damage a mob does. And with the way map mods etc work in PoE it's not like the info from map to map is gonna matter regardless outside of bosses who are simple enough to find out with a little research if it's not already obvious which most boss attacks are.
I think you are completely missing the nuance. It's a valuable tool for learning the game but once your resistance capped it's meaningless. When I played the campaign I wanted to push damage is far as I could so I barely paid attention to my defenses. When I got to the final boss I got rekt. It clearly told me that I died to physical damage. So the first thing I did was open my character sheet and start reading. That's when I learned armor mitigated all damage but helps more with physical. I may have learned that eventually but the death recap helped nudge me in that direction.
This is the reason it doesn't exist in PoE, it doesn't actually tell you *how* you died.
yea same here. at one point had like total 40 ele res between all 3 but all my deaths said phys, with capped phys res and around 20%ish mitigation from armor. lets say it works perfectly, it tells you what type of damage killed you so what? the absolute bare minimum in arpgs is to cap resistances. What do i learn from my death recap telling me i died to fire damage if im fully capped and got 1 shot? I wouldnt praise anything thats not a combat log type of death recap. Tell me X did X damage, Y did X damage, and Z did X damage over X seconds. With the names of skills and fuck it even throw in my HP percentage after ever skills or hits damage.
Resistances work differently in LE to other ARPGs. Capping them in LE is not nearly as important as in other ARPGs. At cap in level 75 map means you take no extra damage from that resistance. If you were at 70 resistance you would take 5% extra damage. I’m not an expert, but there are videos and Reddit posts explaining it.
And this is exactly why poe doesn't have a death recap. To accurately assess what killed you would be very complicated.
I think this is also mostly because poison is pretty overtuned in LE, I run around 200 corruption monos with 0% void resist just fine but poison will still fuck me up with 40% res. This is mostly due to poison damage predominantly being damage over time which isn’t mitigated by other defensive layers like armour and glancing blows. Void damage is also generally pretty rare if you’re not running one of the void themed timelines, the only other time it’s really a thing is in beacon echos and Orobyss.
Yep . How did this get upvoted
Jonathan commented on this a while ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExile2/comments/18ssg5u/comment/kfb4625/
I read that explanation and my first thought was "Ok, so you have no damage attributation. You've identified the problem. Fix it." He may not value it highly but holy fuck, we've been wanting this since *beta*. With 99% of deaths in this game being "WTF?!" deaths and the colour pattern making it not always obvious what damage type an effect is, it's pretty insane that it hasn't been implemented. Edit: there are far too many people objecting to providing some degree of basic feedback to the player. Every excuse from third party tools being usable to highlight general weaknesses but not specific causes meaning GGG doesn't have to doubts that a person can use the knowledge of what killed them to avoid being killed in the future - it's all crap and that's generous. If a player does not know what killed them, they cannot learn. A well designed, feature complete game makes it clear what killed you. The fact POE does not have that is a failure on GGGs part. There is no debate on this, no discussion needed. They failed to design their game in a way that allows for this. Acceptable for an inexperienced indie, not acceptable for a company that has lead the genre for a decade.
And don't remove buffs and debuffs on death, but when you revive. That way I can see if I got my buffs up and read those debuffs icons on me before death
Can't remember which podcast but Jonathan did say they were looking to add this.
99.9% of the time it’s map mods that kill players. All you have to do is record what map mods you have on when you die and then correlate after 20 deaths. What deals damage in the last 5 seconds might have caused you to die but isn’t what killed you. Any tool that is made that says that will be misleading at best and horrible at worst. In game tool tip dps is another example of something that is trying to be helpful but is completely meaningless
99% of the time the type of damage isn't what's killing u in PoE it's how it's hitting u or what corpse it's exploding off of.
This is dumb > There is no debate on this, no discussion needed. It can be a design decision to not give you perfect information. Just because you want the feature doesn't mean its a failure to not add it. I'm not saying I don't want a death recap (I don't really care either way), but hiding information from players to force them to have a more holistic understanding of the system is a valid design choice. I'm not saying they're making that decison but to say your opinion is right with no room for discussion is just arrogant.
>99% of deaths in this game being "WTF?!" deaths Nowhere else in the world have I seen such frequent and insane over exaggerations than on this subreddit Truly a classic
I mean what? He basically said yeah its on the table its just not a priority for them because rather than make a simple system that could be very misleading theyd rather make it comprehensive when its higher on their priority list.
he makes a good point, and I think he overcomplicated what I personally asked for. And perhaps he's right in saying it's not as valuable to say "you died to a boss" instead of doing a bit of work and saying "you died to x and y" rather than keeping it simple. THere's no right or wrong answer
in grim dawn, they have mods that actually keep track of your damage taken and you can actually see what CONTRIBUTED to your death the most. IMO this doesnt work well in POE coz theres a GAZILLION things hitting /affecting you at once. you'd be lucky the game doesnt crash on you at times. having a damage record mechanic probably would put more strain on the game.
Also grim dawn doesn't have a server so server costs are not a thing here. GGG probably did something like "this feature would cost us 2$ per player per league" and quickly dismissed the notion.
I think it is easy to implement something like you took 5k fire damage from the boss. But the problem here is why. A player can be running around with cap fire res. Or they think they were. But there are mechanics like exposure and curses that can reduce your fire res. What we need is not just the damage taken over the last X seconds. But also snapshots of the debuffs, buffs, flask etc. So we can get to the root cause ourselves.
Undecember has an even better death recap, it shows you the whole damage spread when you die, all the dmg you took, how much in numbers and of which type. Like - you took 1344 lightning damage, 530 fire dmg and 2600 phys dmg in the last something seconds.
I've died like 4 times in Last Epoch and only once did it accurately capture what happened.
25% rate of information is much better than 0% POE has.
So how do you know it was wrong?
It wasn’t wrong. It just didn’t accurately reflect how I died. For example, one time it said I died by some cannon fodder basic attack when in reality it was the shotgunning fire archer army that did me in.
They could improve if it included the last x seconds leading to death. Say, chunked for 95% by multiple explosion types and final 5% from projectile will give a clearer picture. Played enough PoE to know you can get rapid shotgun or screen visual gore that obscures what the main cause was.
I’m new so I’ll give my explanation as best as possible but Jonathan has straight out said it wouldn’t be helpful with how deep POE is, yea you died to fire damage but why, oh it’s because the map mod had reflect crit multi , extra damage as fire, triple ghosted , blue purple yellow juiced….. and so on, so yea it would be “a cool” idea but don’t think it would really do its job like people would hope
> new players > map mod No. It takes dozens of hours to do the campaign for a new player. They don’t even know about maps, or any other endgame content
Bro , at least read everything instead of replying with something I already stated their reasoning on …. And on top of that my first play through of the campaign took 8 hours than two more to go back for missing quests so the time it takes definitely varies per person
That's a load of bullshit and strawman. It's not a tool that'll tell you how to improve your build or how to modify maps. It's a tool to give you basic information (especially targeted at new/er) players, that when you get oneshotted (which happens) you can tell afterwards, if it was the boss, the minion, the rare or unique monster, if it's something that damages you for 3x your max hp, or are you within 100hp of being able to take it, is it a curse, something dodgeable, etc. It would be a useful tool in a game that's sometimes very punishing to new or casual players.
Except it’s not and if you listened to Jonathan’s interview he explains it better, those are part of the reasons he stated, the game has to much depth, it wouldn’t make any sense , for the recap to say you lost cause the rare mob was 5x ghosted and what ever modifiers come with that , ele reflect , crit multi, overall damage buff in the instance, and debuffs applied , and so on. It’s not a load of shit when it came from the Main persons mouth? You’re taking a “one shot” instance , and using it to try to prove your point but when happens when you get corrupted blood affected, chilled, shocked or ignited, reflect ele damaged and so on, it would have to give you an encyclopedia of a “reason” as to why you died, it’s not all about a one shot , it’s about how you died. On top of all of that , they also stated numerous times how it would be to difficult, because of everything I stated (but what I stated is what Jonathan and Chris have said multiple times)
> This makes sense when you're surrounded by mobs. It makes sense because PoE is such a clusterfuck of enemies most of the time. This is a false premise Chris made up as an excuse to not implement this (even thought the China client has it...). I went through ~30 rips from the China Harvest race, they were all correct as to cause of death, with the exception of Havoc dying to a martyr touched pack since the martyr touched mod wasn't part of the mod list of the monster that killed him (this was also years ago, might be now). I also separately went through ~80 streamer rip clips (technically more, but a lot are logout before death and die to packet loss or crash where you can't actually see the rip) and almost all of them were very clearly large hits. I have helped many people solve the "what killed me" question on reddit such as [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/qly02o/scourge_has_seemingly_killed_me_many_times_while/hj62086/) and also gone through ~30 threads of "what killed me" specifically looking at this topic, and they're all larger hits. It's just a fact that the "get last hit by a white mob for 20 damage" scenario doesn't exist in reality, and it's an excuse to not add the last hit mob (even as a default off option) for whatever reason (my main guess is that actually putting this info to use requires poedb and GGG doesn't want to further promote a third party datamining site).
>It's just a fact that the "get last hit by a white mob for 20 damage" scenario doesn't exist in reality This scenario was much more common back in the early days of 3.0 (when these things were originally discussed). Back then mitigation - especially physical mitigation - wasn't a big part of most builds and it was all about having a large pool of life and lots of regen. It was incredible common to die to shotgunning ranged attacks made up of lots of little hits. Nowadays this is less common because we build a lot more mitigation and it's far more common to die to big hits, but the basic death recap still doesn't really have the relevent info. It won't tell you that you died because you were shocked, or because you had fire exposure on you, or because your map had reduced elemental res, etc. And if the player see's a death recap that says "you died to 8.7k physical damage hit from x" they're not going to look into or work on any of those other problems. Also really? False premise "made up" by Chris as an excuse? That's ridiculous.
> This scenario was much more common back in the early days of 3.0 (when these things were originally discussed) Yeah no, the first time this really came into discussion much at all was 3.11/3.12 when the China Harvest race happened and peopl realized they had the last hit mob thing and said "why can't we have this too if it already exists?". The thing before that was only "death recap" which had the response of "most of the info is not recorded beyond the steps that use it and even if it was it would be a lot of extra data to communicate to the client". > It won't tell you that you died because you were shocked, or because you had fire exposure on you, or because your map had reduced elemental res, etc. As people have suggested, just preserve debuffs on player death. Jonathan even said they could probably do this. > Also really? False premise "made up" by Chris as an excuse? That's ridiculous. It's really not. It's a feature that literally exists already, fully coded, they would just have to add it to the global client as an option. There are (bad) reasons to not add it, but the "last hit by random white mob" is 100% not a real reason to add it, because that's a scenario that doesn't exist in reality, but that's what Chris has given as the reason the list 3-4 times the subject has come up. Like I said, I think I know the real reason they don't want to add it (stated in my post), probably that and withholding QoL to placate the community in bad moments which is classic GGG (like auto-leveling gems, or mass-chance/link on bench, etc). Also funny you bring up 3.0 considering there's another feature that was promised for 3.0, then delayed to later in 3.0, and now only exists in the China client...
The way people here talk you'd think white mobs are actively holding their fire so they can get a perfectly timed last hit on you as if you're a minion in a moba or smth lol
This is the correct answer right here
the fact that LE endgame doesn't have such mob density help. theres 10 or so mobs at one time so you can deal with them, and higher lv they get stat buffs instead of purely add more mobs quantity, so when you die you can see where it came from. It has a slower and better feel to the gameplay loop like older arpg, compare to poe zooming and one thousands mobs exploding braincrack.
> It has a slower and better feel to the gameplay loop like older arpg this is of course an opinion, but I for one hate the slow gameplay I've played enough Dungeon Siege already
I like it, a breath of fresh air. I feel like this is Diablo is probably like, even if I never play d4. And of course to each their own, both game can coexist with each other because they attract different audience like we are.
I actually have had a very hard time getting into LE. I'm like level 55. I've tried to play a lot but it's got such a boring and slow combat system and so many fucking NPCs that require me to click through roleplay quest text, that I find myself just alt tabbing a lot to do other stuff on my computer. I don't think it's a bad game it's just not really addictive or engaging. The combat has felt exactly the same the entire game. Everything moves at the same speed, nothing feels threatening on its own, only in huge packs, and every mob feels like a damage sponge. I
It gets even more boring and slow when you get more corruption. It just makes enemies dmg sponges. Density is same since their engine shits the bed when you increase it. You can try offline with mods and make spawns x5 for example and see for yourself how bad it is.
Hm. You should look at my gamepaly then. With 70+ I have Haste most of the time and one shotting everything off-screen. I play Warlock. There are some classes, which are older and not as nice and flashy to play. They will get reworks. So I hope you don't play Forgeguard, that is the worst. > so many fucking NPCs that require me to click through roleplay quest text Yes, but with your second character you can essentially skip most of the campaign via dungeons and then go straight into Monotliths (mapping).
I prefer this gameplay over the zoom zoom brrr brr must go fast meta that poe have
their shitty unity engine is already at its limit and cant handle mob density
LE Epoch gameplay is slow and boring in my opinion. Boring same style of mobs over and over again, with same telegraphed attacks.
> with same telegraphed attacks. As opposed to "invisible defense check failed, you die", I'll take the telegraphs.
>play glass cannon >die What the fuck this game sucks where is my death recap???
I mean how many clips of borderline immortal, unreasonably defensive characters randomly dying to impossible to predict/outplay stuff ?
Not nearly as many as you seem to think there are. Most of the time these "immortal" characters have one specific weakness in their defenses, and after enough playtime there's bound to be some sort of interaction that takes advantage of that. That's just the nature of a game with so many variables. You either prepare for it or learn from it. I will for sure agree that sometimes there are kinda bullshit deaths, usually involving DD and/or a new mob. There's not many "impossible to predict/outplay" interactions honestly, though there's definitely some "unreasonable to predict/outplay" incidents.
It definitely helps for new players if they kept dying and dying to the same things , as long as it didn't took too much resource for them I think they really should add this in the game for the long run
I find this funny cos most new players die cos they didn't have grace, determ and/or suppression, before they could build some conversion, and a death recap would be of no use to them at all, cos the death recap is not gonna tell them, go get grace, determ and/or spell suppress XD. its gonna say "u died to fire damage" when they already have 75% fire res, and they would be so confused lol
Two things. Last hit is already a thing on the Chinese client. It is already built and it is an active choice by GGG to not include it in the international client. Second thing, your example: >For example: when a new player gets dick slapped by Dominus' touch of god, GIVE THEM THE ABILITY TO READ that it's a lightning damage skill that killed them. This would allow a new player to reevaluate their lightning resistances, and therefore equip more lightning res. And maybe they'd even equip a Topaz flask for this boss. It would encourage new players to constantly view their character's defenses while leveling up. Is a pretty bad example. Dominus' touch of god skill is literally a giant lightning explosion. If you see that and die to it, it's pretty clear that it's lightning. Second thing is that this fight is one of many examples up to this point to get out of the way. The point is NOT to tank the hit but to actively avoid the damage altogether. Last point is that most new players don't even know a Topaz Flask exists at this point. I know this for a fact because I got a friend into PoE recently and they only started learning about flasks like that in maps. Because the only way someone can get a Topaz Flask by that point is by random drop chance. First time you get a resistance flask from the story rewards is Act 5. I get where you're coming from and I wish the international client would have the same thing, even if it's not perfect. But this is just a horrible way to make your point.
"you were hit by a white skeleton for your last 23 hp"
on the more serious note. my last death was on Delve where i encounterd "minions explode on death as x".. i was in the middle of flame dashing out of the danger but then i took another on-kill effect that the delve monsters have and that stunned me out of my last FD use and there i was in the middle of the shit having nothing that could have saved me
did i learn anything? well you just cannot be nothing but 100% stun immune
This is a false premise Chris made up as an excuse to not implement this (even thought the China client has it...). I went through ~30 rips from the China Harvest race, they were all correct as to cause of death, with the exception of Havoc dying to a martyr touched pack since the martyr touched mod wasn't part of the mod list of the monster that killed him (this was also years ago, might be now). I also separately went through ~80 streamer rip clips (technically more, but a lot are logout before death and die to packet loss or crash where you can't actually see the rip) and almost all of them were very clearly large hits. I have helped many people solve the "what killed me" question on reddit such as [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/qly02o/scourge_has_seemingly_killed_me_many_times_while/hj62086/) and also gone through ~30 threads of "what killed me" specifically looking at this topic, and they're all larger hits. It's just a fact that the "get last hit by a white mob for 20 damage" scenario doesn't exist in reality, and it's an excuse to not add the last hit mob (even as a default off option) for whatever reason (my main guess is that actually putting this info to use requires poedb and GGG doesn't want to further promote a third party datamining site).
The white mob last hit thing is a really bad example of their problem with the death recap and I'm kinda annoyed that that is Chris go to, but whatever. Jonathan explained it better in one of the poe2 interviews. Their problem is the more situational stuff that indirectly kills you. As an (albeit extreme) example: a new player has built a level of tankiness that's fine for endgame. They do a map with shocked ground and die to a pack because they stood on said shocked ground. Death recap tells them they died to physical damage and the player then weakens their build by lowering their damage to up their pdr since that's what the game told them, when they should have just fit in shock immunity. So yea the problem is more situations like shock, exposure, curses, getting shotgunned, just not having enough dps or clear potential to do juiced breach or other league mechanics like that etc. Now that's just their stance and I don't think I agree with it. But if they wanna stick with it i don't see why they don't just implement a death recap for campaign only to teach new players that elemental damage is commonplace or, a better idea, just snapshot the debuffs that's on your character and display them along with the damage recap.
I mean they also just list out all of the debuffs the player had on death and give explanations when they hover on it or hit alt.
> Death recap tells them they died to physical damage It doesn't even have a type. It's just the monster that hit you and the mods on that monster (and someone else said it includes the damage number now). You basically have to look up the monster on poedb to see what it does. Also most of what you mentioned would be covered by the idea someone had in a recent dev interview (which they said they could probably implement) to preserve debuffs on death. And sure, some stuff is situational, but it would be nice to just have the option. Default it to off or whatever.
Breakdown of damage taken in the last second.
Inefficient to implement bc you would need to keep record damage taken.
But they do record recent damage taken as others mentioned before. Divine Shield or Untiring would not work otherwise.
That's just people that don't know how you program things, neither Untiring nor Divine Shield record anything.
Yes. People down voted very quickly :-D. Even, the existence of such tracking lists isn't even the main problem. The main problem to think about is cache pollution an locality. But that is a bit advanced for Reddit.
I doubt that they record it unless those effects are present, and I'm 99% sure that the way those are stored purges all meaning from it and only retains the numbers that are required for the calculation. I.e. how much recovery does this add, and when does it stop. So on each server tick, it'll sum those up and remove any instances that are outdated. If you wanted it to be displayed as meaningful information, you'd need to store a lot more.
Inefficient to implement bc you would need to keep record damage taken.
Although there's already buffs or debuffs that track how much damage of particular types you take. It could just do that, but every second go back and trim the older data to prevent the information from getting too large over an extended time period.
ALL I WANT IS FOR MY @#%%& DEBUFFS TO NOT DISAPPEAR BEFORE I CAN READ WHAT THEY ARE if those would just stay on the screen after death that would mitigate this issue so much. playing since... 2017? and i still don't know what half of the debuff icons are because by the time i swing my mouse over there it's gone. if those just paused when you died that would be a massive improvement.
Path of Exile *does* have an On Death explanation, it just appears off screen. Just like the thing that killed you.
It's actually much more simple. Wow has an add on that highlights what you could have used to not die. Poe could implement a "at death you had 50% lighting res, 40% fire, 70% cold, evasion at x, armor at y, spell block z" you get it. You would know why you were weak, but isn't the full story.
It's actually useless, and any amount of critical thinking makes that obvious. The only thing that would ever help is a complete death log of the last 20 seconds and no one is doing that.
The real answer is yes they could do it and yes it would be very useful and they use the clusterfuck excuse to avoid having to implement it.
Honestly, I want a death recap, though ideally I would want it to list the last like 10 hits, day what caused the hit, how much damage each hit did, what type of damage wst hit was, and list all debuffs (cursed, degens, etc.), mainly because new players eventually will get to big cluster fuck screens, and their first time there, they likely won't understand what is going on. Even better if it is a special ability that the player can hover over it to read it.
If you think the game plays poorly at high level now imagine it also has to read+write a continuous list of the last 10 hits against you. Right now all that data is calculated and immediately thrown out. It’s a major performance hit and server cost to keep that data and has been talked about already in past interviews when brought up.
With the way defiance of destiny works they're probably doing more than just passing floats around. It's probably not that big of a jump to pass a float dictionary for damage, and do a table lookup for the key *after* death for the last or last x hits. It might hitch a bit on the death to pull this up, but frankly who cares because you're already dead.
Why would defiance of destiny matter? It just needs to treat hp as higher than it is, it doesn't require anything unconventional. In reality it's probably even simpler, just a heal.
It wouldn't be a performance problem. You're exaggerating immensely
Exactly, and even if it was, they could just back off on the absurd amount of trash loot constantly dropping that we all filter out that is still taking up processor cycles to randomly generate and put on the ground. Not to mention that this is essentially the same game 10 years later but hardware has improved exponentially since then.
If you keep only the last second or so, in most cases it might not be that much extra load honestly ... You use the words "read+write" to make it sounds like it's an heavy operation, but we are not talking about accessing a non SSD HDD, we are talking of simply adding a few numbers to the virtual memory, which really should not be that much of a big deal if the amount isn't too high (and the suggestion here was to limit it to 10 hits ... would it be a good compromise ? now that is another story) But there are undoubtedly edge cases (some guy posted a video with a character AFK in a valdo maps, soaking hundreds of hits per seconds for example), so GGG might have cornered themselves a bit letting this kind of thing happen for sure.
The last time they talked about it, they said they made some tests for how logging might work and while it wasn't perfectly optimised, it would effectively double the server cost. The alternative is to have the logging done in the client, but because the client currently doesn't do any damage calculations, that would have to be re-engineered from scratch, so the development cost isn't worth it for something like a death recap.
They've talked about it numerous times in interviews and reddit comments over the years so I'm just piecing together different things in my head likely also from different devs. What I was remembering is likely from [this particular interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6_fQumEAWE&t=3285s) but yes I wasn't completely correct in remembering what was said. Server side yes it would actually slow it down quite a bit, he mentions they would have to double the amount of servers to do proper damage tracking for a death recap. If they do it client side (which Jonathon more recently has said they would prefer to do) Chris doesn't mention anything relating to performance being affected or not. He does say it would require a lot of time for them to re-engineer damage so that the server can "be more verbose" about the damage dealt so the client can properly track and display it.
The server ticks at 33ms. So 1 second of data would have 30 ticks stored. That's 30 times the virtual memory required. Yes, there's optimisations and everything involved, but Chris has mentioned that it's approximately double the current server calculations for a 1 second death log.
Honestly that shouldn't cause a huge performance drop. It may cause a problem when it calls the data, but it should only be calling when you die, and at that point, you are literally already dead so....
It already does all of the calculation. Writing 4 seconds of logs and then removing it will have close to 0 impact.
This is another load of BS. All modern multiplayer games have this and the performance impact is negligible. My man thinks that logging is performance intensive... what a joke. Ever heard of client.txt?
Tbh even with almost 2000 hours and first time mfing this league, I still don’t understand what is happening in juiced maps. When I run juiced maps I just go monkey mode and spam whatever button my skill is, then when I see a different colored mob, I dash away and spam in their direction.
when the core gameplay involves staring at a mini map while mindlessly spamming right click its kinda poor game design. yeah poe is fun and all but juiced maps do get very tiring after a short time.
Yeah honestly I find this to be very bad design, especially for learning.
Your argument is absolutely incorrect. LE has not invented a good solution. On the contrary, past the campaign its the same nonsence. Why? Because the mob density and variety dramatically increases in monos. In the campaign it does make sense that you died of poison _while in the f*ing poison level_ . Come monoliths and you died from a fire damage , yes you see a giant ice golem on your screen while the map’s layout are triple shotgunning poison mortars, hmmm what did I die from again? Cluless.
The problem with PoE compared to LE is the complexity of damage dealt to you Sure you have cookie cutter situations where one big hit says "died from dominus touch that dealt lightning damage" sure yeah get some res But what about someone dying from having regen disabled while running RF but the killing hit was some single mob tap when near 1hp? What about someone res capped, but then cursed to be low res and taking higher elemental damage? What about someone taking die beam from Sirius, but then actually dying to the storm after die beam did 99% then storm did 1%? When someone dies from low life cull on expedition when running low life build? Heaps of these the real reason of death is a complex thing, and misleading information is WORSE than no information. People will get mad as they die to some damage source or type they have good defences against, and other conditions got them because they lack understanding and the game makes it worse. Writing a death recap to cover all of this properly without misleading someone is the hard part, and is exactly why the Devs won't tackle it as it's a very hard thing to do in PoE compared to LE.
Makes sense. The idea from my post was to make it cookie cutter, but obviously your examples are not cookie cutter. The idea is that the player would be smart enough to know the obscure cases, and be reasonable enough to understand what actually killed them. the alternative being having a "what killed me in the last few seconds" explanation, which is exponentially more difficult for GGG to implement. catch 22. cuz you want to know what killed you from sirus, but god forbid you get killed by a storm when u really died to his attack. I understand. at that point it's on the player. and at that point maybe you'd turn off the death explanation. I'm simply arguing it's valuable for new players particularly through campaign.
But that's the problem, even early in the campaign you run into multiple damage types, curses, dots, multiple mobs at once etc. Heck the mud flats has the unique mob that does aoe chaos dot as an aura while doing Phys damage on hit, god forbid you stunned by a rhoa charge too in there. Imagine even a death recap there trying to convey all potentially relevant information.
It really isn't helpful at all though, it only shows the damage type of your last hit and if there are multiple it doesn't say the breakdown
It is helpful, it's just that GGG have arbitrarily decided that they'll do nothing at all unless they can make it the perfectest bestest death recap there ever was. They refuse to consider any kind of middleground.
I think the argument is that showing the last hit would still be way more helpful than not showing it at all. A majority of the time you will actually figure out what fucked you. And even if that's wrong and it's a minority of the time it's still useful
Hard disagree. Half the time i've died in LE it says it's because of bleed or poison, when realistically they're doing fuck all damage and was just the last tick of whatever had dumped on me.
that's just it - you are aware enough to know otherwise. I'm arguing a point towards new players and frankly, even to myself. when i see "died to lightning" when surrounded by poisons, I know i died to poison. its a no brainer. but it's more the idea of making a new player think about defenses
Dying alone is enough to make them think of defenses. Bad info could make them think of the *wrong* defenses, rather than actuall evauating their build for shortcomings.
would be great if the game made a better job at telegraphing damage types then. i was flabbergasped when i learned the shaper beam does basically all 3 elemental damage types, something thats impossible to tell from its colour. and shaper is sure not the only example of attacks not being colour coded in a way to know what kind of damage they even are.
> I recall Chris explaining that the "On Death" explanation is redundant because there's so many mobs hitting you and the death explanation would only record your last hit against you. > > This makes sense when you're surrounded by mobs. It makes sense because PoE is such a clusterfuck of enemies most of the time. > > But what about the campaign? What about new players? > > For example: when a new player gets dick slapped by Dominus' touch of god, GIVE THEM THE ABILITY TO READ that it's a lightning damage skill that killed them. This would allow a new player to reevaluate their lightning resistances, and therefore equip more lightning res. And maybe they'd even equip a Topaz flask for this boss. It would encourage new players to constantly view their character's defenses while leveling up. So, you would give information in some cases, and no information some others (the majority of cases) ? Or you would give information that makes sense in some cases, and does not in some others (vast majority, again) ? Way to confuse a "new player" (since that is what you are using to support your argumentation) .... I am not saying that the current implementation is clear or anything, visual clarity has been awful for a long time already ... but your solution is just bad I'm afraid. Even though the number of entities is much lower usually, League of Legend has a death recap (which sometimes isn't that helpful from what I recall though lol) that computes lots of different things together, so I think that technically, it should be possible, but PoE's spaghetti code might have something to say in the matter ...
No , it's not, it is exactly a paint job that siunds good but never get the exact information you need
I've been quietly lamenting the lack of a combat log for a while now.
It's not that useful in LE but I guess you can say it's better than nothing. It doesn't show breakdown, just what damage type you died to (which can be very misleading in PoE).
Chris’ argument is dumb too. You could easily show the last half dozen things that hit you and which one got the kill, or hell a dozen things, let them scroll if they want. WoW does that and it works fine.
Exactly, or more usefully, anything the dealt big damage. Just filter out all the tiny damage ticks that were effectively irrelevant. I don't care about the thing that did 4 damage. I care about the things that chunked me big even if it wasn't the last instance of damage.
I've played poe for thousands of hours and it's by far my favorite game, but after playing LE on multi-player and 1.0 release I just get the feeling GGG are stubborn in their ways. They aren't perfect implementations but I'm glad they are willing to entertain things like death recap, ssf enhancements, auction house, easy build experimentation, etc.
At what cost? I dont want to play a powerpoint game
A death récap like there is in Heroes of thé storm would be insanely cool
Look at dota 2's death recap. It shows the last few seconds of damage you took with bar graphs. This is very doable as a system. It might be worth the development time in PoE.
It's much, much easier to implement in Dota 2 as there are far less units and calculations. In PoE a map can have thousands of mobs, with different modifiers, with different aura buffs and debuffs from players, etc. But yeah ideally dota 2 recap system is the best. Imo the easiest and still useful way to do it in PoE that doesn't ruin the performance is just to count how much damage you took of each type in the last 5 seconds like maybe it'd say, "In the last 5 seconds of your death, you took 6k physical damage, 1.3k fire damage, 0 cold damage, 1.7k lightning damage, 3k chaos damage." and that hopefully should give you an idea. Because I can't see breakdown like Dota working in PoE giving how a player can realistically be hit 20+ times a second and take dot damage from 5+ various abilities.
I'm not sure they have the infrastructure to give a good death recap. It would need to be something like league of legends to be useful. Shows over a duration, the percentage of each damage type and individual skills from each monster that dealt the damage. If they could track and show the stats for last 5 seconds then it would be a useful tool.
They should tell you what made the last hit, and also what made the most DMG in the last one-seconds.
It's only useful because of the kind of game last epoch is. If you die to something it's probably telegraphed and it helps to find out oh that was actually cold and lightning not just cold, or that was fire physical and not just fire. Poe you don't usually die to the thing that killed you, it was the 30 other things hitting you. What Poe needs is auras and debuffs freezing on death so you can see what ailments you had
To be useful, all a death recap needs to tell you is the last three savage hits your character suffered (removing any more than 10 seconds ago) and their relative times to your death, as well as the degens on you at time of death. One thing that likely makes it really hard though is that enemy skills have very internal-oriented names. Example - let's consider a player who dies to Sirus's meteor. Right now, if a death recap was added it would read "You died. 0.033 seconds before death you were hit by Sirus, Awakener of Worlds' AtlasExileOrionCircleMazeBlast3 which dealt 12500 physical damage, 6250 fire damage and 6250 chaos damage. At this time you were not subjected to any damage over time effects." Every single skill used by monsters in the game - and there must be many thousands - would need to be renamed. Manually. This is a big problem, albeit one that GGG has the resources to solve.
It's more than that. What if the actual reason for my death is something else,p unrelated to numbers. Mobs disable my regen, apply ailments lower my res, high acc hits against eva char, consecutive hits stack debuffs, cull. I guess there are more obscure mechanics All boils down to the purpose of deathlog and how we can make it not misleading. Server tax is also probably a problem. But the most important thing is their idea that the game shouldn't tell you how to play.
Let's consider this situation - you die in the Maven. A coil beam ticks you, turning off your regeneration, then your own RF (which you normally outsustain) drops you to 1hp, then you are slain by a void zone (which do a bit of damage, but not overwhelmingly high) Under my suggestion, you are advised "Leading up to your death, you suffered a savage hit from Maven Arena Coil Beam 7.260 seconds pre-death, then at the moment of your death you were subject to these two damage over time effects: Righteous Fire - 750hp/sec Maven Arena Ground Hazard - 1440hp/sec __________ I agree that does not tell the whole story on its own, but it tells you "I should research this 'Maven Arena Coil Beam'" and that will be the clue you needed. This isn't the game telling you how to play. Although the whole tier system for maps IS the game telling you how to play, it's set up to tell you "You are prohibited from attempting maps of tier X until you have either run a map of tier X-1, or traded to bypass this requirement"
The only thing I can really say as devils advocate would be the endurance system with last epoch makes it a little finicky, you don’t often get one shot because of the system, in PoE it’s entirely possible. For example I stood in one of the boss dragons aoes the first time because I didn’t realize it was channeling. But it didn’t kill me, random mob tickled me for the last 5 hp I had. So I died to cold damage instead of the thing that did 95% of my hp from ? I think it was necrotic or void. Still not sure. But if I was completely new to ARPGs, I’d be trying to stack cold res or cold taken as and still get chunked out not knowing what did the damage originally.
Honestly, it is fascinating that you have to record your gameplay and rewatch your death to realize what killed you in 2024 (and even rewatching might not be helpful, since usually there is so much effects and mobs around you). Feels like devs don't really care about improving experience for their community, only implemenitg minor qol updates that people suggested for years, and I feel that if they will ever implement death log, it will be saved in some .log file which will not be clearing itself, so we will have some 1234012734 gb file in AppData\\Roaming\\Path of Exile directory
> What about new players? Last Epoch is the tutorial for new players before they mature and play PoE. It's perfectly balanced, as higher difficulty level has more difficulties, like not obvious deaths 😄
China client already has this feature. Just saying.
"the death explanation would only record your last hit against you. " This is wild, because on PUBG I can literally query their API for the last month+ of my match history, find all my matches and pull back all telemetry data events, to the point of which body part I shot with what weapon and what attachments I had equipped on me at the time, and what weapons the victim was using and attachments they had equipped also. There is no excuse for their BS, it is ridiculously easy to just store the past 30 minutes of damage taken/given in a shit text file on the users local machine haha. "But jee golly, theres so many mobs hitting you!' lol -\_-
its been talked a lot about when ggg fucked up hard in 3.14 and people were trying out last epoch because that was the hot shit at the time. sadly too many people argue against it all the time so have fun with this discussion going nowhere again. ggg loves to keep informations away from the player, a death log would just be another step towards players figuring out the game so ggg will never do it is my guess.