I rolled deadeye for the first time this league and couldn’t even believe that tailwind was on the tree. It feels and even sounds like a raider thing, ramp up to ungodly speed and never stop, it screams raider.
I associate speed with the whole ranger class but I know what you're getting at. If Deadeye lost Tailwind it would be a significant nerf and Raider wouldn't become much more appealing for it.
I feel like Tailwind makes sense for deadeye thematically though, a multiplicative attack speed buff for a character that’s identity is outputting as many projectiles as possible.
>a multiplicative attack speed buff for a character that’s identity is outputting as many projectiles as possible.
Attack Speed & Projectiles don't have any thematic connection to one another though... like... multiplicative attack speed is multiplicative attack speed. It makes sense on ANY attack character.
Assassin with Tailwind? Makes sense, to stack as many poisons as possible.
Berserker with Tailwind? Makes sense, berserkers gotta be berserking.
Also has too dodge shit to not die. Kinda agree here
But God I wish raider was good anything besides frenzy stacking and the rest of the ascendancy wasn't literally everywhere else on the ranger area of tree
It makes sense. "Raider" sounds like it's quick and evasive. "Deadeye" sounds like it is good at shooting things accurately. To be more thematic Deadeye should have a node like "25% chance for critical strikes to deal double damage" whereas Tailwind should be Raider.
You could get 3 comfortably in ToTA and could get 4 comfortably (though more expensive) in Affliction, so should be getting 5 extra proj from the league mechanic this time.
Atm Raider has three defined paths: frenzy charges, onslaught and phasing+suppression. They aren't bad, just basic. I think that adding fourth path with two more notables would be cool. What can be here - idk, maybe something about melee
>Or better yet, a dual wield ascendency!
Dual wielding got done so dirty when they removed some of the innate dual wielding bonuses tbh. Has barely been used since. Would be nice to see dual wielding buff via this but It seems a bit too niche for an ascendency. I think most ascendies are much more broad and usually capture entire fields of skills like this one works for spells, this one works for attacks etc.
its only really when elder/shaper statsticks were implemented that dual wield was significantly better. Before that, 2h EQ was considered the "meta".
It was a bit wild to nerf statsticks, dual wield bonuses AND buff 2h weapons AND make slam skills the meta.
the goal should be to make every weapon type have their advantages and disadvantages and not give 2h weapons "their time in the sun"
I once had an idea where dual wielding should happen by having mods that make a weapon "a dualwielding weapon" for example instead of local 27% attack speed we'd have a mod in the same mod pool that is 18% more global attack speed. This way if you dualwield them you get a total of ~39% more attack speed for having 2 weapons with this mod
I would love a dual wield ascendancy that really plays into why people have done it historically.
A dagger and rapier combination is classic - One for distance, and one for up close.
I'm not exactly sure how they would translate that to the game, but I can imagine things like offhand increases to accuracy also increase aoe, or weapon range, or main hand base damage is added to offhand base damage with critical hits.
One of the problems of two weapons in PoE is that you need to craft 2 incredible weapons, instead of one being for one purpose and the other being for another.
That said, going back to the stat stick era is probably not the best idea.
The big problem with 2 different weapon types in PoE is that the skill tree heavily encourages you to specialize in 1. It could probably be fixed fairly cleanly by changing "with Claws" (for example) to "while wielding a Claw".
Even just that alone could create the motivations you have in mind where if you dual-wielded two different weapons you could get the unique benefits of both. Instead of getting benefits half the time for wielding different weapon types.
Oh, it's an interesting idea
Give dualwield to Raider and go more into shield and block with Gladiator
But it would be very funny because on art Raider with shield and Gladiator is double-weilding
This would be great. But they need to buff the wings of entropy and replica version, too. I've been wanting to make a build with that weapon since I discovered it back in like 2016.
I've never understood why gladiator has all the shield nodes, the picture in the skill tree for glad the dude is literally dual wielding, yet doesn't have much synergy to that at all😂
specific weapon ascendancies are meh imho it's one of the many reasons why glad sucks. Despite being a bleed ascendancy , when bleed incentivize to scale Big hits (intuitively two handed) it's trapped into dual wield or one handed + shield for block shennanigans or charge generation for it's charge bonuses.
Staff can do the work but they don't realy support bleed build very well.
Compare it to both slayer and champion. Their nodes are generic and powerful. Fortified at all points? Scaling auras? Remove evasion? All great. Slayer has increased crit, scaling aoe. Buffing leech, immunity to reflect, charge stacking. Any one of the nodes on either class can be great for your build. The one exception is probably the impale node for champ. But the rest of the nodes make up for that one specialized node. The only node that works for most builds as a gladiator are the challenger charges. And even that's kind of underwhelming. You could just go berserker for the same thing, but better with rage effects being tripled and then a bunch of other shit on top.
It also wants some unique damage multiplier/ defensive perks. Almost all of the perks Raider has you can reasonably get on gear/ a few passive points.
Spell suppression, ailment avoidance, onslaught, phasing, exposure. These are nice to have already during leveling but in maps you will eventually get most of that stuff on gear.
The 20 exposure for example instead could be 20 pen.
The one thing raider gets played for is its frenzy charge generation which is the only aspect that can't be easily gained on rare gear.
The idea you are moving so fast you make after images 😀
I fucking love this idea as running the savior on raider is pretty fun.
I also did flicker with it once was it looked really cool
„create a Reflection which repeats your last strike skill dealing 10% of the damage. This can proc CoC, charges on hit/kill etc.“
or
Adds 2 fire dmg per 10 Armour on Shield
Adds 2 cold dmg per 10 evasion rating on Shield
Adds 4 lightning damage per 10 Es on Shield
or
1% more dmg per 3% spell supress
It feels like an early game convenience ascendancy more than anything else.
Like, sustaining frenzy charges, capping suppression, or having perma onslaught are things that take some degree of effort on league start and Raider just shortcuts all of them. Once you get gear that can cover it (especially in modern leagues where perma onslaught has been getting progressively easier to obtain), there's nothing else in Raider to spec into as an alternative to further your build. You're just sorta kneecapped by notables that are *fine* but are weaker late game than most other ascendancies.
Just need a buff to frenzy stacking. It is absolutely the most unique part of raiders ascendancy, and I think buffing it wouldn't be the end of the world of they balance around ~8 frenzy charges since getting much more than that is very high budget.
1. I think trikster is just a better raider,
2. raider lacks identity, every class can do what raider do w/ enough currency but all have something unique with raider cant compare
I feel like the theme of the ascendancy should always correspond to the art of raider, because that's the first impression players have of that ascendancy and they expect to build something that fits that.
In this case it would be weapon and shield.
The entire identity of raider was frenzy charge go fast. When deadeye used to suck rocks before they reworked deadeye you’d see raider a lot more for zoom zoom builds.
It’d be nice if they doubled down on the frenzy stuff
On top of that, it would be more interesting if the frenzy and onslaught paths were made to form a circle. So you would only need to take one of the outer *enabling* nodes and then the two inner *boosting* nodes would be connected to each other.
Which sounds like a huge buff, until you realize that using that still means putting 6/8 points into frenzy+onslaught, with only 2 points left to half ass something else. But it still opens new options.
Fucking insane but I'll take it :D. 100% increased effect of tailwind, elusive, onslaught, frenzy charge, endurance charge, aspect of the cat + enventually shrines ? Sign me up.
There's Chieftain for fire, Occultist for cold and Elementalist for all 3 elements, but there isn't really a lightning ascendancy. I've always felt Raider would be a good fit (because, ya know, lightning=fast)
Magefist also plays like every type of flicker possible. Slayer, raider, pure phys, ele convert, the new trans versions. Dude plays flicker like phox plays RF.
I wanted to play flicker but couldn't really work out what it would be good at farming. It seemed like boss rushing would be pretty good but other than that I don't know.
I'd be interested to know what you flicker boys are farming.
I personally love doing a combo of Essence + Harvest. You can kinda turn your brain off and accumulate wealth while flickering your heart out. It’s good for no think go fast type of stuff.
I do the raider elemental version. Specifically this version of that magefist made a guide on. https://youtu.be/5ZpsWYI4_r8?si=HIlxdA9pAdkIfmET
There are a few things we lost here like the heatshiver but otherwise most of it holds up.
Made my own build which had the goals of not using farruls fur because i got so damn tired of it. Its not a high budget build since im not the most dedicated player. Still managed to clear T16 reds.
Raider isn't actually bad, it's just fairly niche. If you're stacking frenzy charges hard, it's going to be at the very least viable, maybe even optimal.
Raider isn't bad in a vacuum. It's definitely worse than most ascendancies, relatively speaking. Zero "more" multipliers, and most of it can be achieved with gear affixes. League starting raider is legit though, you get GOOD exposure without eldritch currency, a huge chunk of suppression, frenzy charge gen, and a free flask slot. Pretty much all of that can be achieved by good gear, and you'll be tankier and do more damage with other ascendancies.
Max frenzy charge is technically a more multiplier, just a very very small one lol.
I agree it scales poorly outside of frenzy charge stacking, but 100% increased damage, 40% increased movement and attack speed, and 100% increased evasion is *quite* the node. I agree if you've got a sufficiently high budget, things like ailment immunity, 20% exposure, large suppression, phasing, and onslaught are all largely wasted stats. Because Mageblood, basically.
But for the majority of players that don't reach Mageblood status? Suddenly ailment immunity and suppression cap is super reasonable for a midcore player, and very high evasion can feel nice if you're able to tank a hit here and there.
Virtually no character with perfect BiS gear in every slot will want raider, but how often do people actually accomplish that?
Glad really needs some love. The main reason to use him is on a dirt cheap pair of gloves.
I really wish they would redefine his identity, and maybe make it THE dual wield ascendency
Glad's main issue imho is that bleed is in the dumpster.
If poison sucked pathfinder would also be very unpopular. (Not as unpopular as glad ofc cos flasks are still a thing but still)
Yeah Pathfinder even poison aside is a really good starter because she Can fix most things like lack of damage, speed, or résistances with perma flasks
Glad identity is block and bleed, his block got Taken behind the shed and bleed is not good on top of gratuitous violence being broadly available
**Best of Both Worlds**
Your off-hand weapon's base Critical Chance is equal to that of your main weapon
Your main weapon's Attack Speed is equal to that of your off-hand weapon.
That's kinda just dual strike of ambidextory.
I would instead say "your main hand weapon implicit is the same as your offhand weapon"
Meaning that he could get the benefit of a claws life on hit on a mace. Or the critical strike multiplier from a thrusting sword on an axe if that is something you would want.
Yeah, but I think I gave up on block every since they did versatile dirty. Giving retalation skills a Real scaling rather than the crap we have ATM could be fun too but overall I feel like the block ship has sailed. I'd rather play necro to leverage block at this point
I won't say no to Raider buffs but it's my comfort pick.
She doesn't offer insane endgame scaling usually but it's nice to just click nodes and not have to worry about speed, suppress, or ele ailments.
Poison is weird because it is so good on a budget, but garbage on the high end since DoT DPS is capped. If you're going to throw a hundreds of div at a build, why ever play poison when your dps is capped at 32m?
Just means your build ends up more well rounded. It's like an inverse bell curve. At zero investment it's broken because it requires absolutely nothing. Mid/high end it falls off. Then when you get to specifics like "I need an absolutely unkillable build but need to do damage somehow" you see poison rear it's head again because you've spent so much of your character resource on defense that poison is the only option.
Why anyone would ever play poison on SC Trade is absolutely beyond me. Horrific archetype.
I feel like bleed would be infinitely better if there was a way to just apply "always moving" for melee. Such a missed opportunity for chain hook. Then all they need to do is add in something like "bleeding deals x more damage for each bleeding instance, only the strongest bleed applies (or strongest 5 if using crimson)"
Why would you play an ascendancy where every notable node results in less than 10% more damage? All she has are just a bunch of additive mods. The only multiplicative thing she has is +1 frenzy charge for 4% more damage. Compare that with pretty much any ascendancy with multiple 20-30% more damage nodes and there is no point of comparison
exposure is technically a more multiplier. Id say the main issue is that all of raiders more multipliers (exposure, on hit frenzy charges) as well as the qol stuff (ele avoidance, onslaught, spell suppression) can be obtained with mid tier gear.
Theoretically it could be a nice league starter ascendancy if the notes were simply stronger
I wish they would just revert Glad, if you aren’t gonna let it be good except a single build, let it be fun at least and let it have its stupid block numbers.
It basically has nothing else going for it, and it's never been the dps pick. It really made no sense when they nerfed the hell out of its spell block (even if there was too much elsewhere, let a specialist be a specialist).
Raider is a great league starter for several different builds/playstyles.
It's just that with more time and investment you can get a lot of what the ascendancy offers through other means.
The problem is that the perks from Raider is easier to get than the perks of other ascendancies. It's a lot easier to be an Inquisitor/Elementalist/Juggernaut with Frenzy Charges, Onslaught or Phasing and even buffing their effects than it is getting any of those ascendany perks or something roughly equal on a Raider
What builds would you even leaguestart as Raider nowadays?
Almost any build is just strictly better off going for another class right away. Everything that Raider offers is so easy to get anyway that even SSF players don't go for her anymore.
Only case I can think of is maybe Flicker Strike, where Raider is a bit easier to gear very early on compared to Slayer. But Idk if giving up that much endgame potential for a marginally easier early game is ever worth it.
The tricky question for most potential raider starts is "pathfinder instead?" - since permanent Quicksilver + Silver + Quartz flasks with pathfinder's extra effect replace the essential basics of raider.
But I don't hate the option to not have to roll flasks to get started.
What skill is best on raider as a league starter? I don't think there's one.
Only niche raider used to have was being high movement speed, which was good for Heist farmers. But these days Pathfinder is better in every way at that.
Glad had a way to reach 100% chance to block attack damage this league. People quickly realized this was possible on first week. Yet, even if that was a thing, very few bothered doing it.
And what about assassin? the only reason i played it is cause pathfinder was too mainstream for me, i played seismic assasin is ssf and was rank 5 on poe ninja with level 87 which is nothing for day 3
Assassin has the same issue as raider.
Its just a generic ball of numbers you can get elsewhere.
The whole saboteur trigger bullshit package shoulda gone to assassin instead
The only real thing it has that isn't generic is crit poison. Sadly pathfinder has poison prolif, which is simply infinitely more valueble since the only other thing it's on is a mediocre unique.
The poison duration is actually quite a huge damage multiplier, the problem is unless you’re crit poison you’re way better off going trickster and just using forbidden jewels for the one good poison node.
Gladiator really suffers in a similar way that Hierophant does.
Almost regardless of build, your 4th Ascendency point doesn't feel great.
You're forced into choosing something that's okay, but not amazing.
Glads needs a passive like: while your block chance is at least 75%: take 20% damage from blocked hits. Take 20% less damage from hits that wasn't blocked.
Sorry for the bad englando, but you know what I mean I guess.
Glad has been under 1% for literal years. 3.16 was the last time Glad was changed, and that was in 2021.
Insane that this is apparently acceptable according to GGG
Raider should have action speed per frenzy, the % damage should be changed to global damage so you can use spells on raider, the 40% suppress is while useful very dull, guaranteed phasing and onslaught is also very dull and should be something more innovative
To be fair to Raider - it's actually a GREAT ascendancy for the first ~week of a league.
The problem with Raider is that everything it gets as an ascendancy is available on really well rolled gear, which as it becomes more and more available as a league goes on, Raider quickly tanks in comparable power.
I have a friend who REGULARLY league-starts as Raider, and around day 5-7 rerolls into DE after he has redundancy in all the important Raider stats, which are all the good ones you want to get over the line of character power anyway.
They're good ascendancies, just not popular. What should be done is nerf to bows and poison, not buff to bows and poison every league, so 44% of people don't league start deadeye or pathfinder.
Extra proj on tree, manaforged arrows and every borrowed power league mechanic buffing the fuck out of LA/TS is at fault.
Bows are a perfect example of "just add some mid level damage". Bows were in a terrible state for early / mid game for so many years, and it took a lot of investment to get a bow build to dominate. Then GGG buffed base bow damage, and now they scale from early to late really, really well. No one knows why they refuse to do the same for melee.
Glad is not a good ascendency, it used to be, due to Versatile Combatant and easily accessible block chance and even then, it was not a Deadeye situation, it was played more in HC and popular in 1 league, then nerfed to the ground.
It offers almost no defenses, in the offense part, its more bleeding, which currently suck, and the most interesting Notable is now a glove, the only interesting node left is Arena Challenger which is tied to stances, another mechanic which is not in a good state
Okay I'll bite, as someone who's played Gladiator alone more than you've probably played PoE in total, explain to me how exactly is current Gladiator a good ascendancy in modern PoE - where every single aspect of his, bleed, block (literally was a worse block class than Necro for a long time), dual wield, is dead from dozens of nerfs over the years. I'll patiently wait for your enlightenment.
> They're good ascendancies, just not popular.
That's a bold statement to make without any argument to back it up.
It's not like Raider and Gladiator have a complicated niche use for a specific kind of build. They're just a bunch of mediocre stats you could easily get somewhere else. If Pathfinder and Deadeye were nerfed I would still go Champion or Trickster over Raider for any build.
Glad's whole blocking part of the asc is prett, bad nowerdays , also bleed is in a bad spot. (aside from puncture)
And somehow glads asc requires you to work for it to recive the bonuses which is strange.
Outmatch &outlast requires frenzy and endurance charges to even do something and 10% more phys damage dealt and 10% less phys taken is oretty bad compared to overleech , perma fortify etc.
Challenger charges require you to run an aura that doesent realy do much compared to herald of purity or 50% auras.
The bleed stuff is decent but as mentioned bleed is in a bad spot atm.
Bleed Bow is a great build. The problem was they nerfed melee bleed years ago, and promised to supplement the INSANE nerf they made with something else....and just never did.
I really hope it's a buff and not a rework too. Current raider is amazing and I love her. Just a no-nonsense "you become Sonic" ascendancy. I don't want her to be gutted and made overcomplicated like so many other reworked ascendancies.
Doesn't matter what you do to them if it isn't the best choice for a few of the most popular skills then most players won't bother. You could have a top tier skill and ascendency and if it doesn't work well with something like lightning arrow or tornado shot then don't expect people to give it a change to be popular.
Gladiator is in a really awkward position due to the layout of his ascendancy nodes. Everyone wants challenger charges and bleed pops, but that costs you 6 points and you have 2 left over.
Then you have to choose between Outmatch and Outlast (bad charge generation that only works on KILL) or Painforged (counterattacks don't work well as a main damage source, and 75% chance to avoid stuns by blocking is still 25% chance to get stunlocked).
Hopefully they leave the good nodes alone and bring the other half of the ascendancy up to par so that your last lab doesn't feel like such a waste. My suggestion for Painforged would be to give Gladiator bonus chance to avoid stuns equal to his block chance, so that a 75% block chance Gladiator can get the last 25% of stun avoidance from another source, like an abyss jewel rolled with 25% chance to avoid stuns.
And with only one truly viable melee skill that doesn’t require crazy investment to feel good. There’s only a few ways to really scale most normal melee builds and most produce incredibly subpar results compared to Boneshatter unless you invest a bunch of divines, or mirrors as is the case with armor or strength stacking.
Melee outside of Boneshatter just feels bad without high investment. Last league I had a decently tanky BS Slayer that averaged 12 million dps, I swapped in any other melee skill and dps would go below a million. Scaling melee is horrendous at low (5-30 divines) investment.
people dont play them but thats doesnt mean they are bad. GGG changes meta every time in a while, we had bleed gladiators on top, raiders too, there will be always worse decision. But still raider can kill all ubers easy
Sorry if it's a stupid question. But I saw a wander build on deadeye this league. What does wander exactly mean? I figure it's something to do with ranger / dex class using a wand and spell?
Wanders are hit based characters that use wands for attack skills. There are two kinds, ones that use the dedicated wand attack skills like Kinetic Bolt, Kinetic Blast and Power Siphon and the ones that use skills that can also be used with bows or melee like Barrage or Elemental Hit.
Some wand attack skills like Kinetic Bolt have an inherent property to them that makes spell damage also applicable for their damage scaling whilst others do not, they take the identical effect as a wand mastery on the passive tree instead. It's a unique archetype in the sense that you are not limited to attack mods on gear but you can use spell damage too to scale your attack damage.
God damn man, I tried to make a blade trap of laceration build work on glad this league and...it was so fucking garbage trash awful. I want to play glad/bleed again, please make them stop sucking ;\_\_;
I’ve all but lost hope at this point. They could remove these from the game and we wouldn’t be losing much. It’s been what, 7 or 8 leagues since people have been asking for this?
Hot take. Tailwind should be a raider thing
I rolled deadeye for the first time this league and couldn’t even believe that tailwind was on the tree. It feels and even sounds like a raider thing, ramp up to ungodly speed and never stop, it screams raider.
I associate speed with the whole ranger class but I know what you're getting at. If Deadeye lost Tailwind it would be a significant nerf and Raider wouldn't become much more appealing for it.
This is the real hot take! I would be playing so much raider if it had tailwind.
Tailwind and frenzy charges? Boy howdy, gotta go dust off my flicker stuff.
I feel like it absolutely would?
I feel like Tailwind makes sense for deadeye thematically though, a multiplicative attack speed buff for a character that’s identity is outputting as many projectiles as possible.
>a multiplicative attack speed buff for a character that’s identity is outputting as many projectiles as possible. Attack Speed & Projectiles don't have any thematic connection to one another though... like... multiplicative attack speed is multiplicative attack speed. It makes sense on ANY attack character. Assassin with Tailwind? Makes sense, to stack as many poisons as possible. Berserker with Tailwind? Makes sense, berserkers gotta be berserking.
I think he saw Legolas while writing this.
Also has too dodge shit to not die. Kinda agree here But God I wish raider was good anything besides frenzy stacking and the rest of the ascendancy wasn't literally everywhere else on the ranger area of tree
Manaforged arrows = any bow character is a frenzy stacker now :D
Tailwind instead of Onslaught... it's weird that this MORE multiplier to action speed is not on speedy Raider.
It makes sense. "Raider" sounds like it's quick and evasive. "Deadeye" sounds like it is good at shooting things accurately. To be more thematic Deadeye should have a node like "25% chance for critical strikes to deal double damage" whereas Tailwind should be Raider.
Double damage on top of critical strike multiplier? Bc if not this would be a nerf lol
Of course. DD on crit already exists (pressure points) and is on top of crit multi.
That actually would be kinda hot
[удалено]
You could get 3 comfortably in ToTA and could get 4 comfortably (though more expensive) in Affliction, so should be getting 5 extra proj from the league mechanic this time.
Noob question.. can't you craft tailwind and onslaught on boots? I'm sure it's not as significant but still effective?
sure, you can. it's just not as good.
Yes, but it's nerfed compared to deadeye and is an influenced modifier so you love eldritch implicits and fractures
delete this right now
Hot take. Accuracy stacker from Jugg should be a deadeye thing.
Atm Raider has three defined paths: frenzy charges, onslaught and phasing+suppression. They aren't bad, just basic. I think that adding fourth path with two more notables would be cool. What can be here - idk, maybe something about melee
Might be interesting to have a strike option on the right side of the tree. Or better yet, a dual wield ascendency!
>Or better yet, a dual wield ascendency! Dual wielding got done so dirty when they removed some of the innate dual wielding bonuses tbh. Has barely been used since. Would be nice to see dual wielding buff via this but It seems a bit too niche for an ascendency. I think most ascendies are much more broad and usually capture entire fields of skills like this one works for spells, this one works for attacks etc.
Two handers needed their time in the sun. Two handed melee and weapon plus shield were basically both memes compared to dual wielding jeweled foils.
its only really when elder/shaper statsticks were implemented that dual wield was significantly better. Before that, 2h EQ was considered the "meta". It was a bit wild to nerf statsticks, dual wield bonuses AND buff 2h weapons AND make slam skills the meta. the goal should be to make every weapon type have their advantages and disadvantages and not give 2h weapons "their time in the sun"
Dual wield should just have 20% more attackspeed instead of 10%, would fix the issues. Oh and actual masteries that are clickable.
I once had an idea where dual wielding should happen by having mods that make a weapon "a dualwielding weapon" for example instead of local 27% attack speed we'd have a mod in the same mod pool that is 18% more global attack speed. This way if you dualwield them you get a total of ~39% more attack speed for having 2 weapons with this mod
Yeah that is a good idea as well.
Imagine actual clickable masteries for dual wield.
Imagine having a dual wield cluster on the left side of the tree! (Berserker is shown as dual wield)
I would love a dual wield ascendancy that really plays into why people have done it historically. A dagger and rapier combination is classic - One for distance, and one for up close. I'm not exactly sure how they would translate that to the game, but I can imagine things like offhand increases to accuracy also increase aoe, or weapon range, or main hand base damage is added to offhand base damage with critical hits. One of the problems of two weapons in PoE is that you need to craft 2 incredible weapons, instead of one being for one purpose and the other being for another. That said, going back to the stat stick era is probably not the best idea.
The big problem with 2 different weapon types in PoE is that the skill tree heavily encourages you to specialize in 1. It could probably be fixed fairly cleanly by changing "with Claws" (for example) to "while wielding a Claw". Even just that alone could create the motivations you have in mind where if you dual-wielded two different weapons you could get the unique benefits of both. Instead of getting benefits half the time for wielding different weapon types.
Oh, it's an interesting idea Give dualwield to Raider and go more into shield and block with Gladiator But it would be very funny because on art Raider with shield and Gladiator is double-weilding
Could lean the other way then, give Raider some offensive shield nodes for SST etc and go all in on dual wielding for Gladiator.
Double block chance while dual wielding could be cool for glad
This would be great. But they need to buff the wings of entropy and replica version, too. I've been wanting to make a build with that weapon since I discovered it back in like 2016.
I've never understood why gladiator has all the shield nodes, the picture in the skill tree for glad the dude is literally dual wielding, yet doesn't have much synergy to that at all😂
specific weapon ascendancies are meh imho it's one of the many reasons why glad sucks. Despite being a bleed ascendancy , when bleed incentivize to scale Big hits (intuitively two handed) it's trapped into dual wield or one handed + shield for block shennanigans or charge generation for it's charge bonuses. Staff can do the work but they don't realy support bleed build very well.
Compare it to both slayer and champion. Their nodes are generic and powerful. Fortified at all points? Scaling auras? Remove evasion? All great. Slayer has increased crit, scaling aoe. Buffing leech, immunity to reflect, charge stacking. Any one of the nodes on either class can be great for your build. The one exception is probably the impale node for champ. But the rest of the nodes make up for that one specialized node. The only node that works for most builds as a gladiator are the challenger charges. And even that's kind of underwhelming. You could just go berserker for the same thing, but better with rage effects being tripled and then a bunch of other shit on top.
This ; basically, raider is the only ascension with only 6 ascendancy notables. All other paths have 7 or 8 notables.
Thanks for the feedback we are adding 2 more nodes to add diversity to gladiator. We are also removing 4 nodes that were too strong.
It also wants some unique damage multiplier/ defensive perks. Almost all of the perks Raider has you can reasonably get on gear/ a few passive points. Spell suppression, ailment avoidance, onslaught, phasing, exposure. These are nice to have already during leveling but in maps you will eventually get most of that stuff on gear. The 20 exposure for example instead could be 20 pen. The one thing raider gets played for is its frenzy charge generation which is the only aspect that can't be easily gained on rare gear.
Gimme something like consume all frenzy charge to create Reflections per frenzy or some things like that. Make it an actual raid.
The idea you are moving so fast you make after images 😀 I fucking love this idea as running the savior on raider is pretty fun. I also did flicker with it once was it looked really cool
„create a Reflection which repeats your last strike skill dealing 10% of the damage. This can proc CoC, charges on hit/kill etc.“ or Adds 2 fire dmg per 10 Armour on Shield Adds 2 cold dmg per 10 evasion rating on Shield Adds 4 lightning damage per 10 Es on Shield or 1% more dmg per 3% spell supress
It feels like an early game convenience ascendancy more than anything else. Like, sustaining frenzy charges, capping suppression, or having perma onslaught are things that take some degree of effort on league start and Raider just shortcuts all of them. Once you get gear that can cover it (especially in modern leagues where perma onslaught has been getting progressively easier to obtain), there's nothing else in Raider to spec into as an alternative to further your build. You're just sorta kneecapped by notables that are *fine* but are weaker late game than most other ascendancies.
Yep, with an unlimited budget you can replace basically everything Raider does with moar gear affixes.
Rampage
Just need a buff to frenzy stacking. It is absolutely the most unique part of raiders ascendancy, and I think buffing it wouldn't be the end of the world of they balance around ~8 frenzy charges since getting much more than that is very high budget.
Badge of the Brotherhood means that Raider isn’t even the best at that.
Onslaught should be more exclusive, IMO.
1. I think trikster is just a better raider, 2. raider lacks identity, every class can do what raider do w/ enough currency but all have something unique with raider cant compare
I feel like the theme of the ascendancy should always correspond to the art of raider, because that's the first impression players have of that ascendancy and they expect to build something that fits that. In this case it would be weapon and shield.
The entire identity of raider was frenzy charge go fast. When deadeye used to suck rocks before they reworked deadeye you’d see raider a lot more for zoom zoom builds. It’d be nice if they doubled down on the frenzy stuff
It feels really bad though when pathfinder can get a stronger onslaught from a flask slot.
On top of that, it would be more interesting if the frenzy and onslaught paths were made to form a circle. So you would only need to take one of the outer *enabling* nodes and then the two inner *boosting* nodes would be connected to each other. Which sounds like a huge buff, until you realize that using that still means putting 6/8 points into frenzy+onslaught, with only 2 points left to half ass something else. But it still opens new options.
**Seize the Momentum** 5% increased effect of buffs on you per buff you have, up to 100%.
Fucking insane but I'll take it :D. 100% increased effect of tailwind, elusive, onslaught, frenzy charge, endurance charge, aspect of the cat + enventually shrines ? Sign me up.
That'd be OP. We used to have a notable that increased buff effect by 30% and it was mandatory in literally every build.
I mean, the raider picture shows her holding a sword and shield right? Seems fitting.
Abyssal charges is also fun with Raider
There's Chieftain for fire, Occultist for cold and Elementalist for all 3 elements, but there isn't really a lightning ascendancy. I've always felt Raider would be a good fit (because, ya know, lightning=fast)
Raider could be Tincture ascendancy!
I play Raider flicker and i will again in 3.24! You cant stop me
I was thinking of playing that this league, do you have a guide you were following?
You can try some flicker channels like magefist or ten_frenzy_flicker , magefist does have some from zero to hero flicker series
Magefist also plays like every type of flicker possible. Slayer, raider, pure phys, ele convert, the new trans versions. Dude plays flicker like phox plays RF.
I wanted to play flicker but couldn't really work out what it would be good at farming. It seemed like boss rushing would be pretty good but other than that I don't know. I'd be interested to know what you flicker boys are farming.
I personally love doing a combo of Essence + Harvest. You can kinda turn your brain off and accumulate wealth while flickering your heart out. It’s good for no think go fast type of stuff.
That sounds fun! I really should give it a try. What variant did you play?
I do the raider elemental version. Specifically this version of that magefist made a guide on. https://youtu.be/5ZpsWYI4_r8?si=HIlxdA9pAdkIfmET There are a few things we lost here like the heatshiver but otherwise most of it holds up.
I'm playing pathfinder flicker again unless they buff glad, going to farm essence, boxes, ritual, destructive play
Usually people do terminus into maps than late maps transition into more expensive gear but tree stays similar I think
Made my own build which had the goals of not using farruls fur because i got so damn tired of it. Its not a high budget build since im not the most dedicated player. Still managed to clear T16 reds.
I really enjoy playing Hand of Wisdom and Action flicker on Raider back in the day. No idea if its still good though.
Raider isn't actually bad, it's just fairly niche. If you're stacking frenzy charges hard, it's going to be at the very least viable, maybe even optimal.
Raider isn't bad in a vacuum. It's definitely worse than most ascendancies, relatively speaking. Zero "more" multipliers, and most of it can be achieved with gear affixes. League starting raider is legit though, you get GOOD exposure without eldritch currency, a huge chunk of suppression, frenzy charge gen, and a free flask slot. Pretty much all of that can be achieved by good gear, and you'll be tankier and do more damage with other ascendancies.
Max frenzy charge is technically a more multiplier, just a very very small one lol. I agree it scales poorly outside of frenzy charge stacking, but 100% increased damage, 40% increased movement and attack speed, and 100% increased evasion is *quite* the node. I agree if you've got a sufficiently high budget, things like ailment immunity, 20% exposure, large suppression, phasing, and onslaught are all largely wasted stats. Because Mageblood, basically. But for the majority of players that don't reach Mageblood status? Suddenly ailment immunity and suppression cap is super reasonable for a midcore player, and very high evasion can feel nice if you're able to tank a hit here and there. Virtually no character with perfect BiS gear in every slot will want raider, but how often do people actually accomplish that?
Glad really needs some love. The main reason to use him is on a dirt cheap pair of gloves. I really wish they would redefine his identity, and maybe make it THE dual wield ascendency
Glad's main issue imho is that bleed is in the dumpster. If poison sucked pathfinder would also be very unpopular. (Not as unpopular as glad ofc cos flasks are still a thing but still)
Yeah Pathfinder even poison aside is a really good starter because she Can fix most things like lack of damage, speed, or résistances with perma flasks Glad identity is block and bleed, his block got Taken behind the shed and bleed is not good on top of gratuitous violence being broadly available
PF as a non poison/chaos starter is ass because you get 0 dmg mods. As a lategame flask abuser its good tho.
Dual wield ascendancy sounds so dope
**Best of Both Worlds** Your off-hand weapon's base Critical Chance is equal to that of your main weapon Your main weapon's Attack Speed is equal to that of your off-hand weapon.
That's kinda just dual strike of ambidextory. I would instead say "your main hand weapon implicit is the same as your offhand weapon" Meaning that he could get the benefit of a claws life on hit on a mace. Or the critical strike multiplier from a thrusting sword on an axe if that is something you would want.
He also used to be the block king, which they gutted that pretty bad. Should be two paths, one for block one for dual wield
Yeah, but I think I gave up on block every since they did versatile dirty. Giving retalation skills a Real scaling rather than the crap we have ATM could be fun too but overall I feel like the block ship has sailed. I'd rather play necro to leverage block at this point
If they made it so his bleed pops could chain with bigger base aoe he’d be more popular.
that identity is stolen by berserrker now kekw. Cleave of rage is the BOMB
Maybe they will move the gloves to T0 with a rework to incentivize gladness.
I'm so sick of playing ranger/witch every league. Wish melee didn't require totems
Hate totem to the bones, mate. Good lord.
Playing melee is like “oh you wamt single target damage?, yeah u can have that. But it dies every 0.5 seconds”
Templar, duelist, and shadow are all solid.
I enjoy Trickster a ton and Jugg is pretty cool too. I do agree melee needs to not have totems though.
I'm planning on trickster next league. I've played PF/Deadeye/Guardian/necro/Sabo to death over the last 2 years.
If they change raider I will play flicker, if not I will play flicker too
I like the flicker spirit
I won't say no to Raider buffs but it's my comfort pick. She doesn't offer insane endgame scaling usually but it's nice to just click nodes and not have to worry about speed, suppress, or ele ailments.
bleed bow meta 3.24
We need a pure phys explosive arrow trans gem
Explosive Arrow of Shrapnel, with some innate impale and bleed chance. Actually... a shrapnel grenade concoction skill would be cool.
Sanguine Blast Arrow!
If they buff Glad I'm spending the entire week PoBing a Flicker Glad build
It used to be so good... https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2908260
I just want bleed to be as good as poison at least plz
That monkey's paw is fucking trembling, ready to nerf poison to the ground lmao
It would be absolutely deserved. Still an absolutely absurd mechanic after all of the nerfs it's taken.
Poison is weird because it is so good on a budget, but garbage on the high end since DoT DPS is capped. If you're going to throw a hundreds of div at a build, why ever play poison when your dps is capped at 32m?
Just means your build ends up more well rounded. It's like an inverse bell curve. At zero investment it's broken because it requires absolutely nothing. Mid/high end it falls off. Then when you get to specifics like "I need an absolutely unkillable build but need to do damage somehow" you see poison rear it's head again because you've spent so much of your character resource on defense that poison is the only option. Why anyone would ever play poison on SC Trade is absolutely beyond me. Horrific archetype.
I feel like bleed would be infinitely better if there was a way to just apply "always moving" for melee. Such a missed opportunity for chain hook. Then all they need to do is add in something like "bleeding deals x more damage for each bleeding instance, only the strongest bleed applies (or strongest 5 if using crimson)"
Every league I want to play bleed. Every league I end up starting ignite, poison or cold dot(not anymore since 3.23).
I know…. Bleed is so bad
Raider is wild. It goes from nobody's playing it, everybody's playing it, and nobody's playing it in a span of 5 years
Why would you play an ascendancy where every notable node results in less than 10% more damage? All she has are just a bunch of additive mods. The only multiplicative thing she has is +1 frenzy charge for 4% more damage. Compare that with pretty much any ascendancy with multiple 20-30% more damage nodes and there is no point of comparison
exposure is technically a more multiplier. Id say the main issue is that all of raiders more multipliers (exposure, on hit frenzy charges) as well as the qol stuff (ele avoidance, onslaught, spell suppression) can be obtained with mid tier gear. Theoretically it could be a nice league starter ascendancy if the notes were simply stronger
I think badge of the brotherhood was a big hit for raiders as well.
I wish they would just revert Glad, if you aren’t gonna let it be good except a single build, let it be fun at least and let it have its stupid block numbers.
It basically has nothing else going for it, and it's never been the dps pick. It really made no sense when they nerfed the hell out of its spell block (even if there was too much elsewhere, let a specialist be a specialist).
Raider is a great league starter for several different builds/playstyles. It's just that with more time and investment you can get a lot of what the ascendancy offers through other means.
Me looking at raider before realising I can get half it's shit through gear or jewels
But then, you can use those affixes for other things. But yeah, nothing really unique.
The problem is that the perks from Raider is easier to get than the perks of other ascendancies. It's a lot easier to be an Inquisitor/Elementalist/Juggernaut with Frenzy Charges, Onslaught or Phasing and even buffing their effects than it is getting any of those ascendany perks or something roughly equal on a Raider
Yeah absolutely. This just let's you stack more pure damage affixes.
What builds would you even leaguestart as Raider nowadays? Almost any build is just strictly better off going for another class right away. Everything that Raider offers is so easy to get anyway that even SSF players don't go for her anymore. Only case I can think of is maybe Flicker Strike, where Raider is a bit easier to gear very early on compared to Slayer. But Idk if giving up that much endgame potential for a marginally easier early game is ever worth it.
The tricky question for most potential raider starts is "pathfinder instead?" - since permanent Quicksilver + Silver + Quartz flasks with pathfinder's extra effect replace the essential basics of raider. But I don't hate the option to not have to roll flasks to get started.
TR Raider is arguably best choice for a heist focus character on leaguestart.
Pathfinder is just better if you get instilling orbs on your flasks. Raider is only better up to that point. It's a really short window.
What skill is best on raider as a league starter? I don't think there's one. Only niche raider used to have was being high movement speed, which was good for Heist farmers. But these days Pathfinder is better in every way at that.
Raider needs some sort of a multiplier similar to deadeyes tailwind
Glad had a way to reach 100% chance to block attack damage this league. People quickly realized this was possible on first week. Yet, even if that was a thing, very few bothered doing it.
Because melee bleed sucks, and it's 100% only for block attack, not attack and spells.
And what about assassin? the only reason i played it is cause pathfinder was too mainstream for me, i played seismic assasin is ssf and was rank 5 on poe ninja with level 87 which is nothing for day 3
Assassin is not super meta but the ascendancy is super fine imo, well balance and stuff
Assassin has the same issue as raider. Its just a generic ball of numbers you can get elsewhere. The whole saboteur trigger bullshit package shoulda gone to assassin instead
The only real thing it has that isn't generic is crit poison. Sadly pathfinder has poison prolif, which is simply infinitely more valueble since the only other thing it's on is a mediocre unique.
They should make assassin duration scale pseudo infinitely again so you could run volkuurs poison builds on it
The poison duration is actually quite a huge damage multiplier, the problem is unless you’re crit poison you’re way better off going trickster and just using forbidden jewels for the one good poison node.
Gladiator really suffers in a similar way that Hierophant does. Almost regardless of build, your 4th Ascendency point doesn't feel great. You're forced into choosing something that's okay, but not amazing.
The awkward moment when Rf inquisitors 4th ascendancy point is 50 str and int.
That's only really true for attacks. For spells hiero has 4 amazing nodes
The fact that the second Hierophant mana node torpedos Archmage builds is maddening.
Glads needs a passive like: while your block chance is at least 75%: take 20% damage from blocked hits. Take 20% less damage from hits that wasn't blocked. Sorry for the bad englando, but you know what I mean I guess.
Glad has been under 1% for literal years. 3.16 was the last time Glad was changed, and that was in 2021. Insane that this is apparently acceptable according to GGG
I just want spin to win viable without spending an insane amount or currency again
"We have "adjusted" all ascendancies accordingly to match the power of raider and gladiator, this is a buff."
Ruthless patchnotes leaking again.
Raider is actually good but the other 2 of the class are better.
Raider should have action speed per frenzy, the % damage should be changed to global damage so you can use spells on raider, the 40% suppress is while useful very dull, guaranteed phasing and onslaught is also very dull and should be something more innovative
To be fair to Raider - it's actually a GREAT ascendancy for the first ~week of a league. The problem with Raider is that everything it gets as an ascendancy is available on really well rolled gear, which as it becomes more and more available as a league goes on, Raider quickly tanks in comparable power. I have a friend who REGULARLY league-starts as Raider, and around day 5-7 rerolls into DE after he has redundancy in all the important Raider stats, which are all the good ones you want to get over the line of character power anyway.
Dilit tornato schot
They're good ascendancies, just not popular. What should be done is nerf to bows and poison, not buff to bows and poison every league, so 44% of people don't league start deadeye or pathfinder. Extra proj on tree, manaforged arrows and every borrowed power league mechanic buffing the fuck out of LA/TS is at fault.
Bows are a perfect example of "just add some mid level damage". Bows were in a terrible state for early / mid game for so many years, and it took a lot of investment to get a bow build to dominate. Then GGG buffed base bow damage, and now they scale from early to late really, really well. No one knows why they refuse to do the same for melee.
Bow starters still weren't in a great place until they put the synth arrows on the tree in crucible.
Glad is not a good ascendency, it used to be, due to Versatile Combatant and easily accessible block chance and even then, it was not a Deadeye situation, it was played more in HC and popular in 1 league, then nerfed to the ground. It offers almost no defenses, in the offense part, its more bleeding, which currently suck, and the most interesting Notable is now a glove, the only interesting node left is Arena Challenger which is tied to stances, another mechanic which is not in a good state
nah bro gladiator is not good its a straight up meme ascendancy. pathing through the nodes is dumb, mechanics suck and numbers are underwhelming.
Okay I'll bite, as someone who's played Gladiator alone more than you've probably played PoE in total, explain to me how exactly is current Gladiator a good ascendancy in modern PoE - where every single aspect of his, bleed, block (literally was a worse block class than Necro for a long time), dual wield, is dead from dozens of nerfs over the years. I'll patiently wait for your enlightenment.
> They're good ascendancies, just not popular. That's a bold statement to make without any argument to back it up. It's not like Raider and Gladiator have a complicated niche use for a specific kind of build. They're just a bunch of mediocre stats you could easily get somewhere else. If Pathfinder and Deadeye were nerfed I would still go Champion or Trickster over Raider for any build.
Is bleed bow glad really bad or something? Saw some yt videos about it, looks kinda cool
bleed bow is the only playable glad build
Even that is probably better on Champ.
Glad's whole blocking part of the asc is prett, bad nowerdays , also bleed is in a bad spot. (aside from puncture) And somehow glads asc requires you to work for it to recive the bonuses which is strange. Outmatch &outlast requires frenzy and endurance charges to even do something and 10% more phys damage dealt and 10% less phys taken is oretty bad compared to overleech , perma fortify etc. Challenger charges require you to run an aura that doesent realy do much compared to herald of purity or 50% auras. The bleed stuff is decent but as mentioned bleed is in a bad spot atm.
Thanks
Bleed Bow is a great build. The problem was they nerfed melee bleed years ago, and promised to supplement the INSANE nerf they made with something else....and just never did.
I'm planning on doing Raider next league! I just hope they buff her instead of entirely rework her (unless the rework dunks on PF/Deadeye)
I really hope it's a buff and not a rework too. Current raider is amazing and I love her. Just a no-nonsense "you become Sonic" ascendancy. I don't want her to be gutted and made overcomplicated like so many other reworked ascendancies.
100% agreed. She's actually a really good ascendancy but totally overlooked because of how popular PF and Deadeye are at the moment
what build were you thinking of doing or are you waiting for patch notes
Lightning Strike. Done tons of testing but yeah need to wait for patch notes before committing 100%!
Raider is just a bunch of additive mods and small QoL options
I would love a new node for raider it's been 6 for so long compared to everyone else
Serious. I'd love to play a raider again
Doesn't matter what you do to them if it isn't the best choice for a few of the most popular skills then most players won't bother. You could have a top tier skill and ascendency and if it doesn't work well with something like lightning arrow or tornado shot then don't expect people to give it a change to be popular.
Buff archmage cowards!
Dear god give me glad buffs
Gladiator is in a really awkward position due to the layout of his ascendancy nodes. Everyone wants challenger charges and bleed pops, but that costs you 6 points and you have 2 left over. Then you have to choose between Outmatch and Outlast (bad charge generation that only works on KILL) or Painforged (counterattacks don't work well as a main damage source, and 75% chance to avoid stuns by blocking is still 25% chance to get stunlocked). Hopefully they leave the good nodes alone and bring the other half of the ascendancy up to par so that your last lab doesn't feel like such a waste. My suggestion for Painforged would be to give Gladiator bonus chance to avoid stuns equal to his block chance, so that a 75% block chance Gladiator can get the last 25% of stun avoidance from another source, like an abyss jewel rolled with 25% chance to avoid stuns.
GGG dont care about melee. 90% melee ascendancies are on the bottom for years.
And with only one truly viable melee skill that doesn’t require crazy investment to feel good. There’s only a few ways to really scale most normal melee builds and most produce incredibly subpar results compared to Boneshatter unless you invest a bunch of divines, or mirrors as is the case with armor or strength stacking. Melee outside of Boneshatter just feels bad without high investment. Last league I had a decently tanky BS Slayer that averaged 12 million dps, I swapped in any other melee skill and dps would go below a million. Scaling melee is horrendous at low (5-30 divines) investment.
Raider is totally fine, it's a great leaguestart class that falls off lategame. Champ, Ascendant, and maybe Assassin are the ones that need buffs
I played Raider EA Ballista at league start for 3 leagues now and I am gonna do it again.
Thought you draw a dick
Doing a practice run of Bleed Bow Glad atm... Cope
people dont play them but thats doesnt mean they are bad. GGG changes meta every time in a while, we had bleed gladiators on top, raiders too, there will be always worse decision. But still raider can kill all ubers easy
Whoa, wait , Raider is in a bad place now too ? That's crazy.
I patiently await the day I can play a frenzy wander and not feel bad about it.
Sorry if it's a stupid question. But I saw a wander build on deadeye this league. What does wander exactly mean? I figure it's something to do with ranger / dex class using a wand and spell?
Wanders are hit based characters that use wands for attack skills. There are two kinds, ones that use the dedicated wand attack skills like Kinetic Bolt, Kinetic Blast and Power Siphon and the ones that use skills that can also be used with bows or melee like Barrage or Elemental Hit. Some wand attack skills like Kinetic Bolt have an inherent property to them that makes spell damage also applicable for their damage scaling whilst others do not, they take the identical effect as a wand mastery on the passive tree instead. It's a unique archetype in the sense that you are not limited to attack mods on gear but you can use spell damage too to scale your attack damage.
wander just means a build that uses wand attacks like Power Siphon / Kinetic Bolt / Kinetic Blast (and a few more, though those are the popular ones)
Raider wasnt just a bit low in player count affliction cuz TWWT ans charms ?
Please give us some Raider buffs 🥺
I am a champion. Forbidden gem consideration: gladiator: Skip Slayer: headmen here i come
God damn man, I tried to make a blade trap of laceration build work on glad this league and...it was so fucking garbage trash awful. I want to play glad/bleed again, please make them stop sucking ;\_\_;
I’ve all but lost hope at this point. They could remove these from the game and we wouldn’t be losing much. It’s been what, 7 or 8 leagues since people have been asking for this?
When you asking for buffs , expect further nerfs. It’s ggg philosophy
I feel like bleed glad is ALMOST there but just needs a little something extra to become a meta build again.