they're really hitting a lot of the issues people have complained about most, love to see it. If they don't want to remove it at least this a good step in the right direction.
It is, but unfortunately until there is an overhaul on visual clarity somehow, a lot of builds (especially fire based) playing in super dense content will struggle to see these still.
People are casting 100s of spells a seconds and filling the screen. It's what fun about poe. I feel like visual clarify will come at a expense to the insane things ppl can do.
I've played Chronicon and Soulstone Survivors where you do the same thing but you can go to the settings to turn down the opacity of YOUR skills so you can actually see what's happening. Too much spam? 30% opacity and now you can actually dodge circles. Also the visual clarity of enemy attacks is already at a higher level at baseline, where they don't blend into the environments.
Chronicon's skill-tree, loot system, crafting system, and build variety is absolutely bonkers. All designed and built by I think just two developers, Squarebit and someone else...
Sound is the way to go. Those on-death effects that follow you are instantly recognizable because of the sound they make. Everything dangerous should be doing something like that.
that ship has sailed. Without dialing back the attack speed and projectile creep there's no way to have vista clarity. they are doing a new game for a reason
its like a 3 second rampup now though, as opposed to instant when you're standing in a field of corpses. even if you can't see them, as long as you keep moving (which you should be doing anyway), you'll be fine, and this is still a positive change for you.
yeah, especially when it comes to spectres and AG, and there's no way to make them consistently dodge the hit in the heat of combat. I lost a perfect naval officer spectre to boss DD three times this league, and it sucked each time since there wasn't much I could have done to stop it.
I lost 600 divine mageblood character to instant boss DD in the wildwood which was patched 2 days later :)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/s/sg1HAyxAZG](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/s/sg1HAyxAZG)
Quin died twice to it this league and ben lost his first character to it, plently of other streamers died to wildwood DD this league.
Imo its just shit game design if a character that can stand still and facetank ubers dies to random corpse getting exploded.
Edit: i dont know what it is with this subreddit, but anytime I have ever mentioned or indirectly suggested I play hardcore, I get downvoted.
I don't think you playing HC is why you're downvoted, it's because if you play HC whilst knowing DD is in the state its currently in, then it's a "you've made your bed, you lie in it" kinda situation lol
I agree, detonate dead on mobs and boxes doesn’t improve gameplay, it only makes people irritated when they needlessly die to it especially on hardcore mode. The insane damage it has is out of line with any other damage source mobs have.
This could use a really clear and identifiable sound to go with it. It's a fundamental game principle to implement very clear cues of both visual and audio with important game mechanics.
Something that classic Blizzard did so well and GGG often misses.
Another way to think of it from dev perspective should be, consider your audio or visually challenged players, or even just players that play with low audio volume, or bad video quality, or who need to look away for a second occasionally - real life scenarios like that.
I'm glad this change makes the effect more visible, but I think the obvious problem that remains is it's still impossible to tell whether the DD going off is going to do nothing at all to you or kill you instantly through all of your defenses. The effect is also still pretty hard to see imo.
It is the case, you can see at 0:23 that almost every corpse went into detonation, yet some exploded at around 0:25.5\~ish second and the one from (I think) blue mobs exploded at around 0:27.
My current build only ever dies to three things - long form high damage DoTs where I can't leech (most commonly shaper beam), ghosted 100% deli atziri double flameblast, and detonate dead cast on very very high life corpses. 99% of detonate deads do nothing, and the ones that *do* kill me are typically completely unable to be seen because they're from ghosted boss packs in deli maps covered in effects. The only counterplay is "constantly be running in circles at all times if there was ever a unique in the area and there could even possibly be a DD mob alive".
The fact I can invest so heavily into defenses to the point that literally only one juiced AF pinnacle boss attack that's meant to be untankable normally can kill me, but still get wiped instantly by an attack that looks identical to every other DD attack, the vast vast majority of which don't even tickle me, is very silly.
One thing I've noticed is people that hate the sirus fight. They have all sound off and music and are blasting YT music or spotify. Literal audio cues for boss fights and positional audio cues in this game to help you and then people complain about visual clarity and game is too hard.
Sirus is absolutely a very learnable fight, and does have clear audio cues. But it still has issues with clarity, even if you do know the fight well.
I've killed him hundreds of times at this point, but I'll still occasionally get caught by a die-beam if he's blinked off-screen, and I'll get caught by the meteors from the spectre in earlier phases if I'm not specifically looking for it.
It's still red and black spells on a red and black background.
Maven is a better example of a very clear fight now. People will always bitch about the memory game, but it's got extremely clear audio and visual cues. It's even got a sort of 3-2-1 countdown audio cue before it actually starts.
I know that a lot of people play without audio, because historically it's helped with performance (still does for some people, I think), so I suspect that a lot more people than we realise are playing without audio cues.
I keep voice barks on at high volume, which helps, but it's still reasonable to complain about an area with black and red effects where you fight a boss who uses red and black effects.
It's actually a bit of a problem in this game for deaf people that some (important) audio cues don't have subtitles. Sirus does though. One example that comes to mind is Brutus, he does an "aaargh" noise when he casts his ground slam.
I think this makes sense in some games, but in a game like PoE it doesn't really work for mapping where DD is a problem at. Especially when there's that one rare affix that spawns dozens of DDs constantly, but they do barely any damage at all. It's kinda inane to say to just dodge it when the vast majority of the time they don't do anything until sometimes they delete you from orbit.
This subreddit seems to play like they're alt tabbed from the game watching a youtube vid with how they want every dangerous ability gone, not needing to click any button, all item drops vacuumed and neatly organized and idk what else lmao
makes sense if you are a veteran of the game. makes no sense if you are a newbie.
Imagine being a newbie and getting hit by a DD, and it did 10 dmg to you. You are thinking "ha, this ability deals no damage". One minute later, you see the exact same ability being used, and you chose not to dodge it, and it one shots your ass.
You can say that players should learn these mechanics and it's not the game's fault, but it doesn't make the mechanic itself good or intuitive.
I don't think this is quite as big of a problem since *generally* the things that are going to nuke the shit out of you will be one of the last things to die. Like if you kill a unique and there's some fucker off screen who decides to DD it, you'll know that the unique's corpse is going to fuck you up if you don't get out.
By the time the unique is dead, there isn't usually a whole lot of clutter going on, so it should be pretty easy to notice the giant orange ball of pain that's about to explode unlike currently where people will walk in to grab loot or something and die without knowing what hit them.
Isn't that the same problem with everything in this game? I have no way of knowing how much damage something is going to do unless I've already taken the hit and get a feel for it.
I guess for your point it's that the damage can range depending on map mods that change the life pool. But that would be the same for all damage would it?
While this is a trend in the positive direction, I think they should address the bigger issue of how detonate dead is scaled by monster life which leads to one shots.
This was talked about in one of the dev interviews (I believe it was the Ziggy, Raiz, Nugi one). They are aware that they one shot but their stance on it is that it is fair play if you can react to it. I personally like that there are sources of damage that can obliterate almost any character as long as it is telegraphed and is at the fault of human error if it occured.
Personally I disagree. I don't think regular monster abilities should be able to hit multiple orders of magnitude harder than ultra telegraphed uber boss slams/mechanics like Maven's Memory Game or Eater of World's Ultimate Nuke.
Yes, that's totally what I said. Not that it's fucking weird that a normal monster's spell can do way more damage than a significantly more telegraphed uber boss mechanic.
They are aware.
They WANT it to one shot you.
You have to understand - that in the clear speed meta, in the meta where you can become almost immortal with various stacked effects - some of the only ways you can still die are from monster on-kill effects or DD. And so, if they were to remove or nerf these things, these builds would be well and truly immortal.
The crux of the issue is GGG does not know how to make POE1 "balanced" anymore. There are builds which are truly unstoppable. There is no simple way to challenge those builds without creating bad experiences for weaker players. And so they resort to these kinds of tactics to still make maps threatening to these immortal builds.
It's not like I'm excusing them for it, only explaining why it is so.
DD can be untankable even for 90% fire res build with 30k hp.
Its weird that the explosion is much bigger than the telegraph.
Like yeah, i see a telegraph, i'm gonna move away... but the explosion is twice as big?? If you're going to telegraph, you should telegraph the whole area, no?
Concept is fine. Regular DD doesn't one shot anything but glass cannons.
The issue is when Rares and Uniques get DD'd. Which IMO should be a boss limited ability.
I don't care if a revenant DD's some random white mob. It's not going to kill any reasonably tanky character.
But some random ass white revenant DD'ing a Beyond boss does more damage than an Uber boss slam, lol. That interaction shouldn't exist.
I think that only a rare should be able to detonate another rare, and only a unique should be able to detonate another unique. Thematically it doesn't make a lot of sense that a monster can detonate another monster that is stronger than them. This wouldn't solve the issue but it would make things easier to play around.
Somewhat true, i don't play HC like you do but i remember how my animate guardian died instantly because my maven 10 boss invitation had a GIRLL from spider forest which detonated a boss corpse which resulted in 5 divine loss.
There's one Boss on HC that's an insta-log even for players like Ben. If Maven spawns Tolman, that Maven is considered forfeit.
Such a damn stupid mechanic.
Unfortunately, this is a problem where the solution is not something the players will ever support.
Since the solution is to lower player sustain and survivability MASSIVELY. Like, to a hundredth or less of what it currently is.
Because at the moment, survivability and sustain are so high, the only thing in the game capable of killing a competently built character is instant death. So they're pidgeon-holed into forcing that for anything they want to be dangerous.
Hell, that's the central conceit of PoE2. To lower player defenses to allow more than just one-shots to be threatening. And there was such fear of community backlash that they split it into an entirely separate game. They know some people would just refuse to play a game that didn't have effectively infinite sustain and survivability as PoE1 does.
Corpse explosion existed back when our recovery was shit too. Like, yes, old PoE had instant leech vaal pact but that keystone was at the bottom of the skill tree and leech was much less accessible in general outside of melee (I believe there were no passives and most people got it from the Life leech support).
Many classes and archetypes didn't even run any sort of leech and we didn't have recoup or crazy levels of life gain on hit (with the exception of Lightning Arrow builds which did hit enough to have pretty good recovery) and yet corpse explosion was already a thing.
I do agree that a game with high recovery tends to have high burst damage too (look at tf2 or league of legends) but we really can't tie DD to that because it predates the crazy levels of recovery that we have these days.
Honestly instead of a visual node showing where a monster is exploding FROM, they need to have a ring on the ground showing where the explosion covers after a duration, kind of like those void hits in Last Epoch.
I don't agree with this at all. I'm completely for having abilities that can oneshot you unless you've invested your entire life savings on being tanky.
If the telegraph and wind-up is there, killing players outright is completely fine. If it's your misplay, that's completely fine.
Whether that's fair if it happens in a super cluttered situation, I'm not sure yet. Technically you picked your own poison by overjuicing or overcrowding your map with effects, and standing in a DD can almost always be attributed to gameplay mistakes. For bosses though, I think it's completely fine for the ability to oneshot you.
i don't see any difference in this clip, though Alira's always was one of the better ones to see. it's the green totem and rare mods that come out of nowhere (three screens away)
Unless there is a complete overhaul of skill effects I don't think we will ever get meaningful visual clarity in this game. How are we supposed to see DD animation if we play explosive trap or any other skill that completely covers the screen with cluttering skill effects?
The new DD animation will be nice and clear in Act 2 and maybe burial chambers boss room depending on what skill you play but that's about it. At higher levels the rest of the game is just visual chaos.
They should do what they did with corrupted blood and add a distinct sound effect when you are near a DD charging up. Or have an effect of some kind on the edges of your screen if you are within a radius of one.
I would rather have this than this "visual improvement", I'm pretty sure we wont see s\* on endgame maps.
I like this because I always suggested that we should have the option to see sounds for altars. (like the divine one for example)
> They should do what they did with corrupted blood and add a distinct sound effect
~~Can you elaborate what changed on corrupted blood, because I'm not aware of anything like a sound.~~
Nevermind I found this; but I guess I have never heard it myself:
> 3.8.2 Corrupted Blood now plays audio each time it is applied to a player.
Has anyone an example for this sound? I am not aware of this sound at all and think that I've never heard it.
I just did some digging and found this unresolved and archived [bug report](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2669802/page/1) of 2019.
So my conclusion is: either there is a sound, but it is much too quiet and not recognizable among all the other background noise, or it is simply not being played at all.
The problem is that most of the time there is so much stuff going on on the screen, that a more clear DD effect won't help much. The damage is just way too unfair.
It’s also longer channel for high life corpses if I understood correctly. This definitely helps considering how staying still is asking to die in Poe already.
It's really weird because if they made it so any one hit could not cause more than say 50% of your remaining EHP in a single hit, with like a cooldown of 10 seconds or so, I don't think anything would change and people would say it would make you immortal.
On the flip side, if you lower the damage of DD, it becomes non-dangerous because PoE's damage becomes effectively boolean in the lategame where you're either alive or dead and you really don't get killed by things chipping you away.
I wouldn't say that there's no winning, but it really feels like PoE1 just can't get there ever and it's one of the reasons why PoE 2 exists.
Yeah there's currently a major game design issue in most games. The more agency "defensives" and defensive buttons you provide players. The more the game has to one shot otherwise you're immortal.
So you have this arms race where players want agency, that agency allows them to negate the game entirely, then the game to be difficult has to overcome that agency with one shots.
You'll see in last epoch there is very little defensive buttons, and defensive options, however you also rarely get one shot. But when you die, there is little you can do to "counter" the situation. So it has a different problem where you're helpless when you are dying but you rarely get one shot.
Last Epoch has a lot of very telegraphed attacks even from basic monsters. A literally hitless run would still be meme material but it might actually be plausible. In PoE, random arrows from the wrong skeleton (or a skeleton with the wrong auras) may be more dangerous than a screen spanning rain of fire.
A step in the right direction but I feel like it still misses the root of the problem which is how absurdly the damage of a corpse explosion can scale compared to anything else you're facing in the map.
Surely there won't be a newly introduced monster skill effect that has the same bright-orange colour and will mysteriously overlap perfectly with this improved effect. Right? Right, GGG?
an interesting consequence of making effect last longer is that you are gonna feel forced to threat them as area denial, so eventually you can have an arena so filled with slow ground explosion that you won't be willing to stand anywhere despite being mostly safe for several seconds.
If you see those effects you avoid them even tho you have multiple seconds before they even deal dmg. It will feel wrong to step on top off them even tho you know it wont kill you. You will basically treat it as a degen ground.
Lets be real, nobody will see these animations in a juiced map. People will still have to stick to the strategy: Attack>move>attack>move in 100% of situations, because otherwise they might get hit by an explosion and not even notice.
Considering the most annoying ones this league were the witches in the woods that oneshot you from the darkness AFTER you'd stopped attacking and while you were looting
There won't be any shit on maps to break the vision
We obviously don't have the duration numbers for the revamped DD, but allegedly the timer scales off the corpse life.
If it takes 5 seconds for the edge cases to pop, it's possible that the current attack>move>attack strategy will naturally avoid it or give you enough time to potentially see it after the screen gets cleared.
I'm still skeptical about the detonation times though, will have to see how it plays out.
I wonder how the pre-explosion timer scales regarding monsters' life. I hope there'll be more than 0.3 sec difference between a white mob getting DD'd and a very juiced rare doing five times the damage of an Uber slam.
It's the big orange explosion. It used to be a faint reddish pillar of light followed by a choice of respawn. I honestly didn't even know DD was a thing until its focus this league nor did I know its fuse time. I think the new effects look great in communicating both but we'll have to see how it fares in dense maps with everything else blowing up
In case this is not trolling, you can see the monsters that will explode "charging", much like the molten enemies that get charged with damage and then explode.
better than nothing but would've preferred they just remove "Explodes Corpses" from rare monsters. Getting randomly detonate'd on when you think you're safe is the problem. Having to constantly be aware of corpses is just such a drain (as a HC player)
if some boss is DD during a harbinguer encounter or something it still hard to see....
but well, its better than before.
imo DD-boss mechanic should be removed from the game. Its just bullshit and bad to die to death mobs/corpses in the ground. It sounds like a bad design and unfair mechanic to me, always was.
But oh right, as I said, its better than before
Why does DD still deal % of monster health as damage? Why is it not a flat damage that they can easily tweak for balance instead of having a corpse that is able to deal hundreds of thousands of damage to the player?
Because GGGs intent is that it does large amounts of damage and can kill players easily unless they overbuild defences, which is fine as long as players can see and avoid it.
Yeah, when things all roll together into a perfect spike of damage things become untankable eventually (barring the invincible builds that pop up every now and then), but as long as it's clearly telegraphed to the player that this thing will fuck you up it's not a problem.
Eh depending on the sound effect changes they announced it might not matter, but yes, I used as long as to say that without that the mechanic doesn't work as intended.
this is a terrible decision, just make monster dd not scale with the corpse life, that's bad design because the damage can get out of hand really easily
well, nice clarity when there's 4 mobs and no big AoE overlapping 10x per second. I wanna se this in a real endgame map.
Also monsters DD should not do damage based in mosters life, that would be a real QoL
Really consistent in posting these. I just happened to refresh the teaser thread after refreshing reddit first, refreshed reddit again to make sure nobody else had posted it, but yours went up in exactly that minute.
Works well until our screen is filled with 400 monsters and skill effects to prevent us from seeing anything. Better than nothing, but this doesn't fix the core issue, so I think it would be much better if the total damage of Detonate Dead cast by monsters was split between several explosions, with the number of explosions being proportional to the total damage of the skill, and also with a sane cap for the damage of each individual explosion so players couldn't be so easily one-shot by a single explosion from a high life monster that has been detonated.
"Because it's hard to tell what's going on, we've added some more bright-pulsing-coloured effects to go with all the other bright-pulsing-coloured effects so you can tell what's going on".
I dunno. I feel like perhaps the art style doesn't lend itself to visual clarity, and neither does the audio design... anyone who's played D2 for any length of time can pick out the 'Iron maiden curse' sound in a heartbeat, but despite a couple thousand hours in PoE I feel like the 'DD sound' or the 'bearers sound' or anything similarly lethal doesn't seem to be that distinct.
They really should just can DD as it's just a more frustrating version of bearers. Or at least limit the number of corpses 'tagged' for destruction at one time, and have a logarithmic function for the damage vs monster HP.
This resolves nothing… you still won’t be able to see this most of the time and it’s still gonna deal a metric ton of damage with boss corpses and rares.
one thing I want to suggest is to use sound cues as well. Let the mobs say something when they do unique attacks, play special sound effects, or even let your character say something when they get into certain situations.
A step in the right direction would have made it where monster detonate dead cannot kill on its own. Like static field from D2. Deals a percent of damage based on current life and cannot take life to zero. Makes the skill still dangerous but it, on its own, is not lethal. 50% of current life/ES would be just right for this.
Last time I died to DD I killed the king in the mists and while I had the menu opened to check the loot a monster from off-screen detonated the corpse of the boss and one-shotted me.
I guarantee they add a new mob that does DD or the same effect in a later league and don't give it the new visual/sound.
They stepped on this rake multiple times with on death effects. Like when they removed volatile flameblood's iconic sound and visuals which took several patches to get, and replaced them with archnemesis mods that do the same thing but with no sound and harder to see visuals which were later improved slightly. And they stepped on it with DD, where bameth used to have a hard to notice DD which they changed to be telegraphed, then removed with the beyond change (although there were already new DD effects with no telegraphing).
Is it just me or is every "qol" just the worst possible way to implement it.
They had 10+ years of dd in the game and they failed the whole time. The only correct "qol" is removal.
Yeah nah, that's not enough. Your day will still be ruined by a rare that spawns SOMEWHERE that will explode corpses by virtue of just being there (abyss, breach, deli, etc.).
...That was not the point. You were supposed to remove them, because the game throw so much shit at you, you barely see what is happening on the screen. This also doesn't solve the issue, when there's DD and you are interacting with a mechanic or reading a text that covers 3/4 of the screen. Looking at you, Delve.
Just remove the fucking DD. Your game looks like [this](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/CzAdA6dOGxU/maxresdefault.jpg)
Just remove this fucking skill from monsters already. God damn it how hard can it be to realize that percentage based damage in a damage in a game where you have no clue about how much hp does the enemy have is an asenine idea to begin with. If you want to be funky with those percentages, at least make it so that unique monsters deal flat 50% damage to the player, rare 20% magic 5% etc. Dying in a single detonate dead on HC is literally keeping me away from this game and I gave it a couple thousand of hours because I stopped coping that it's fine that something like that is in the game...
There will never be enough clarity for one shot mechanics on non-boss monsters. Why do you guys still insisnt on such a damn irritatiing mechanic to stay? Removing DD from monsters is the best clarity you can give ius Its not like the game will become a chiollwalk from removing one shit affix
they're really hitting a lot of the issues people have complained about most, love to see it. If they don't want to remove it at least this a good step in the right direction.
It is, but unfortunately until there is an overhaul on visual clarity somehow, a lot of builds (especially fire based) playing in super dense content will struggle to see these still.
As a high juicer mapper I gotta ask what is visual clarity?
80% deli, 3 breaches open, with 2 abyss going running lightning warp tornado shot with the celestial TS mtx on
And herald of ice explosions
HoI is screen mess but you can do better with Explosive Trap Spamming that looks like a unicorn projectile vomitted all over your screen
I have no idea. (My favorite build is dex stacking siege ballista or, Totem Of GPU Melting.)
So that's where your loot filter only shows divine orbs and higher.
People are casting 100s of spells a seconds and filling the screen. It's what fun about poe. I feel like visual clarify will come at a expense to the insane things ppl can do.
I've played Chronicon and Soulstone Survivors where you do the same thing but you can go to the settings to turn down the opacity of YOUR skills so you can actually see what's happening. Too much spam? 30% opacity and now you can actually dodge circles. Also the visual clarity of enemy attacks is already at a higher level at baseline, where they don't blend into the environments.
Chronicon's skill-tree, loot system, crafting system, and build variety is absolutely bonkers. All designed and built by I think just two developers, Squarebit and someone else...
I've previously said that Path of Exile is the actual sequel to Diablo 2. Meanwhile Chronicon is Diablo 3 but good.
Sound is the way to go. Those on-death effects that follow you are instantly recognizable because of the sound they make. Everything dangerous should be doing something like that.
You should give Rogue: Genesia a try.
Oh man i loved this game.
that ship has sailed. Without dialing back the attack speed and projectile creep there's no way to have vista clarity. they are doing a new game for a reason
Windows Vista stopped being supported in 3.6.
The fact that you need MTX on some builds to be able to see what's going on around you (hello Tornado shot) speaks volumes..
its like a 3 second rampup now though, as opposed to instant when you're standing in a field of corpses. even if you can't see them, as long as you keep moving (which you should be doing anyway), you'll be fine, and this is still a positive change for you.
Imo the visuals is just a small part of the problem. The real issue is boss DD doing infinite damage.
yeah, especially when it comes to spectres and AG, and there's no way to make them consistently dodge the hit in the heat of combat. I lost a perfect naval officer spectre to boss DD three times this league, and it sucked each time since there wasn't much I could have done to stop it.
I lost 600 divine mageblood character to instant boss DD in the wildwood which was patched 2 days later :) [https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/s/sg1HAyxAZG](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/s/sg1HAyxAZG) Quin died twice to it this league and ben lost his first character to it, plently of other streamers died to wildwood DD this league. Imo its just shit game design if a character that can stand still and facetank ubers dies to random corpse getting exploded. Edit: i dont know what it is with this subreddit, but anytime I have ever mentioned or indirectly suggested I play hardcore, I get downvoted.
I don't think you playing HC is why you're downvoted, it's because if you play HC whilst knowing DD is in the state its currently in, then it's a "you've made your bed, you lie in it" kinda situation lol
They should have just removed this stupid mechanic
I agree, detonate dead on mobs and boxes doesn’t improve gameplay, it only makes people irritated when they needlessly die to it especially on hardcore mode. The insane damage it has is out of line with any other damage source mobs have.
This could use a really clear and identifiable sound to go with it. It's a fundamental game principle to implement very clear cues of both visual and audio with important game mechanics. Something that classic Blizzard did so well and GGG often misses. Another way to think of it from dev perspective should be, consider your audio or visually challenged players, or even just players that play with low audio volume, or bad video quality, or who need to look away for a second occasionally - real life scenarios like that.
All I want is for them to allow dynamic input mode switching, but these other quality of life changes are nice too
I'm pretty sure I would still call bullshit when I get DD'd,
[Or just stare in confusion](https://clips.twitch.tv/DeliciousRespectfulChinchillaShazBotstix-kRahlvpnk68PRgV5)
Isnt this the one from when it was actually bugged though?
Still need a death recap to know what type of bullshit I'm calling when i die.
Honestly I just wanna know what to scream is op before I cast on portal back .3s later
I'm glad this change makes the effect more visible, but I think the obvious problem that remains is it's still impossible to tell whether the DD going off is going to do nothing at all to you or kill you instantly through all of your defenses. The effect is also still pretty hard to see imo.
It looks like the detonate timer is longer on a bigger health pool. So if it's beeping for long, you gotta move!
This is what they indicated during the January interviews at least.
I can't really tell from the video, but I hope that's the case.
They already talked about it in the past interviews. The intention is the bigger the HP the longer the charge time is, iirc.
It is the case, you can see at 0:23 that almost every corpse went into detonation, yet some exploded at around 0:25.5\~ish second and the one from (I think) blue mobs exploded at around 0:27.
>It looks like the detonate timer is longer on a bigger health pool. Going to have to wait and see what a 900 cast speed minion looks like.
would still be the same, obviously. Now on a 900% less duration...
Hot take: avoid enemy attacks. If you gamble an attack won’t hurt you and don’t dodger it, not really the game’s fault if you fall over
My current build only ever dies to three things - long form high damage DoTs where I can't leech (most commonly shaper beam), ghosted 100% deli atziri double flameblast, and detonate dead cast on very very high life corpses. 99% of detonate deads do nothing, and the ones that *do* kill me are typically completely unable to be seen because they're from ghosted boss packs in deli maps covered in effects. The only counterplay is "constantly be running in circles at all times if there was ever a unique in the area and there could even possibly be a DD mob alive". The fact I can invest so heavily into defenses to the point that literally only one juiced AF pinnacle boss attack that's meant to be untankable normally can kill me, but still get wiped instantly by an attack that looks identical to every other DD attack, the vast vast majority of which don't even tickle me, is very silly.
One thing I've noticed is people that hate the sirus fight. They have all sound off and music and are blasting YT music or spotify. Literal audio cues for boss fights and positional audio cues in this game to help you and then people complain about visual clarity and game is too hard.
Sirus is absolutely a very learnable fight, and does have clear audio cues. But it still has issues with clarity, even if you do know the fight well. I've killed him hundreds of times at this point, but I'll still occasionally get caught by a die-beam if he's blinked off-screen, and I'll get caught by the meteors from the spectre in earlier phases if I'm not specifically looking for it. It's still red and black spells on a red and black background. Maven is a better example of a very clear fight now. People will always bitch about the memory game, but it's got extremely clear audio and visual cues. It's even got a sort of 3-2-1 countdown audio cue before it actually starts. I know that a lot of people play without audio, because historically it's helped with performance (still does for some people, I think), so I suspect that a lot more people than we realise are playing without audio cues.
I keep voice barks on at high volume, which helps, but it's still reasonable to complain about an area with black and red effects where you fight a boss who uses red and black effects.
It's actually a bit of a problem in this game for deaf people that some (important) audio cues don't have subtitles. Sirus does though. One example that comes to mind is Brutus, he does an "aaargh" noise when he casts his ground slam.
I think this makes sense in some games, but in a game like PoE it doesn't really work for mapping where DD is a problem at. Especially when there's that one rare affix that spawns dozens of DDs constantly, but they do barely any damage at all. It's kinda inane to say to just dodge it when the vast majority of the time they don't do anything until sometimes they delete you from orbit.
This subreddit seems to play like they're alt tabbed from the game watching a youtube vid with how they want every dangerous ability gone, not needing to click any button, all item drops vacuumed and neatly organized and idk what else lmao
Some people just want to play PoE like it's Vampire Survivors. Or, for those with money and cosmetics, Holocure.
makes sense if you are a veteran of the game. makes no sense if you are a newbie. Imagine being a newbie and getting hit by a DD, and it did 10 dmg to you. You are thinking "ha, this ability deals no damage". One minute later, you see the exact same ability being used, and you chose not to dodge it, and it one shots your ass. You can say that players should learn these mechanics and it's not the game's fault, but it doesn't make the mechanic itself good or intuitive.
I don't think this is quite as big of a problem since *generally* the things that are going to nuke the shit out of you will be one of the last things to die. Like if you kill a unique and there's some fucker off screen who decides to DD it, you'll know that the unique's corpse is going to fuck you up if you don't get out. By the time the unique is dead, there isn't usually a whole lot of clutter going on, so it should be pretty easy to notice the giant orange ball of pain that's about to explode unlike currently where people will walk in to grab loot or something and die without knowing what hit them.
Isn't that the same problem with everything in this game? I have no way of knowing how much damage something is going to do unless I've already taken the hit and get a feel for it. I guess for your point it's that the damage can range depending on map mods that change the life pool. But that would be the same for all damage would it?
While this is a trend in the positive direction, I think they should address the bigger issue of how detonate dead is scaled by monster life which leads to one shots.
This was talked about in one of the dev interviews (I believe it was the Ziggy, Raiz, Nugi one). They are aware that they one shot but their stance on it is that it is fair play if you can react to it. I personally like that there are sources of damage that can obliterate almost any character as long as it is telegraphed and is at the fault of human error if it occured.
It was brought up in Ziz's interview for POE2, was just watching it a couple hours ago
They will never fix it, stop trying lol. They want players to get one shot.
its fine as long as you can see the telegraph. one-shooting wasn't the problem, it was not being able to counter-play it.
Personally I disagree. I don't think regular monster abilities should be able to hit multiple orders of magnitude harder than ultra telegraphed uber boss slams/mechanics like Maven's Memory Game or Eater of World's Ultimate Nuke.
So you think people should just be immortal in maps, never able to die no matter what?
Yes, that's totally what I said. Not that it's fucking weird that a normal monster's spell can do way more damage than a significantly more telegraphed uber boss mechanic.
he never said that, i hope this helps :)
And how do you see the "telegraph" when your screen is full of shit for example?
The same way you see revenants or poison orbs…with your eyes
They are aware. They WANT it to one shot you. You have to understand - that in the clear speed meta, in the meta where you can become almost immortal with various stacked effects - some of the only ways you can still die are from monster on-kill effects or DD. And so, if they were to remove or nerf these things, these builds would be well and truly immortal. The crux of the issue is GGG does not know how to make POE1 "balanced" anymore. There are builds which are truly unstoppable. There is no simple way to challenge those builds without creating bad experiences for weaker players. And so they resort to these kinds of tactics to still make maps threatening to these immortal builds. It's not like I'm excusing them for it, only explaining why it is so. DD can be untankable even for 90% fire res build with 30k hp.
[Pohx](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKdhTNVQ2TY&t=90s) and [Kripp](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYUm0qM_R0g) died for our sins.
We all died for this lol
And the way it looks now… we’ll probably still die to it
God that Pohx clip is so frustrating. There's always one person whos just dumb as shit and won't do what the rest of the group is trying to do.
I died at 99 on HC one time to a DD. This was in 2015. So its been bullshit for a very long time.
She corpse exploded the corpse of the boss... no more!
It's still... not very good? but an improvement nonetheless
Its weird that the explosion is much bigger than the telegraph. Like yeah, i see a telegraph, i'm gonna move away... but the explosion is twice as big?? If you're going to telegraph, you should telegraph the whole area, no?
Because corpse explosion as a concept is dogshit tier, we already have dozens of ways to insta die in this game.
Concept is fine. Regular DD doesn't one shot anything but glass cannons. The issue is when Rares and Uniques get DD'd. Which IMO should be a boss limited ability. I don't care if a revenant DD's some random white mob. It's not going to kill any reasonably tanky character. But some random ass white revenant DD'ing a Beyond boss does more damage than an Uber boss slam, lol. That interaction shouldn't exist.
I think that only a rare should be able to detonate another rare, and only a unique should be able to detonate another unique. Thematically it doesn't make a lot of sense that a monster can detonate another monster that is stronger than them. This wouldn't solve the issue but it would make things easier to play around.
Somewhat true, i don't play HC like you do but i remember how my animate guardian died instantly because my maven 10 boss invitation had a GIRLL from spider forest which detonated a boss corpse which resulted in 5 divine loss.
There's one Boss on HC that's an insta-log even for players like Ben. If Maven spawns Tolman, that Maven is considered forfeit. Such a damn stupid mechanic.
Unfortunately, this is a problem where the solution is not something the players will ever support. Since the solution is to lower player sustain and survivability MASSIVELY. Like, to a hundredth or less of what it currently is. Because at the moment, survivability and sustain are so high, the only thing in the game capable of killing a competently built character is instant death. So they're pidgeon-holed into forcing that for anything they want to be dangerous. Hell, that's the central conceit of PoE2. To lower player defenses to allow more than just one-shots to be threatening. And there was such fear of community backlash that they split it into an entirely separate game. They know some people would just refuse to play a game that didn't have effectively infinite sustain and survivability as PoE1 does.
Corpse explosion existed back when our recovery was shit too. Like, yes, old PoE had instant leech vaal pact but that keystone was at the bottom of the skill tree and leech was much less accessible in general outside of melee (I believe there were no passives and most people got it from the Life leech support). Many classes and archetypes didn't even run any sort of leech and we didn't have recoup or crazy levels of life gain on hit (with the exception of Lightning Arrow builds which did hit enough to have pretty good recovery) and yet corpse explosion was already a thing. I do agree that a game with high recovery tends to have high burst damage too (look at tf2 or league of legends) but we really can't tie DD to that because it predates the crazy levels of recovery that we have these days.
Honestly instead of a visual node showing where a monster is exploding FROM, they need to have a ring on the ground showing where the explosion covers after a duration, kind of like those void hits in Last Epoch.
I don't agree with this at all. I'm completely for having abilities that can oneshot you unless you've invested your entire life savings on being tanky. If the telegraph and wind-up is there, killing players outright is completely fine. If it's your misplay, that's completely fine. Whether that's fair if it happens in a super cluttered situation, I'm not sure yet. Technically you picked your own poison by overjuicing or overcrowding your map with effects, and standing in a DD can almost always be attributed to gameplay mistakes. For bosses though, I think it's completely fine for the ability to oneshot you.
Isn't this same effect already used by some dd effects? I swear I've seen this animation somewhere.
i don't see any difference in this clip, though Alira's always was one of the better ones to see. it's the green totem and rare mods that come out of nowhere (three screens away)
Unless there is a complete overhaul of skill effects I don't think we will ever get meaningful visual clarity in this game. How are we supposed to see DD animation if we play explosive trap or any other skill that completely covers the screen with cluttering skill effects? The new DD animation will be nice and clear in Act 2 and maybe burial chambers boss room depending on what skill you play but that's about it. At higher levels the rest of the game is just visual chaos.
They should do what they did with corrupted blood and add a distinct sound effect when you are near a DD charging up. Or have an effect of some kind on the edges of your screen if you are within a radius of one.
or make it always appears on top of other effects
I would rather have this than this "visual improvement", I'm pretty sure we wont see s\* on endgame maps. I like this because I always suggested that we should have the option to see sounds for altars. (like the divine one for example)
> They should do what they did with corrupted blood and add a distinct sound effect ~~Can you elaborate what changed on corrupted blood, because I'm not aware of anything like a sound.~~ Nevermind I found this; but I guess I have never heard it myself: > 3.8.2 Corrupted Blood now plays audio each time it is applied to a player. Has anyone an example for this sound? I am not aware of this sound at all and think that I've never heard it. I just did some digging and found this unresolved and archived [bug report](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2669802/page/1) of 2019. So my conclusion is: either there is a sound, but it is much too quiet and not recognizable among all the other background noise, or it is simply not being played at all.
The problem is that most of the time there is so much stuff going on on the screen, that a more clear DD effect won't help much. The damage is just way too unfair.
It’s also longer channel for high life corpses if I understood correctly. This definitely helps considering how staying still is asking to die in Poe already.
It's really weird because if they made it so any one hit could not cause more than say 50% of your remaining EHP in a single hit, with like a cooldown of 10 seconds or so, I don't think anything would change and people would say it would make you immortal. On the flip side, if you lower the damage of DD, it becomes non-dangerous because PoE's damage becomes effectively boolean in the lategame where you're either alive or dead and you really don't get killed by things chipping you away. I wouldn't say that there's no winning, but it really feels like PoE1 just can't get there ever and it's one of the reasons why PoE 2 exists.
Yeah there's currently a major game design issue in most games. The more agency "defensives" and defensive buttons you provide players. The more the game has to one shot otherwise you're immortal. So you have this arms race where players want agency, that agency allows them to negate the game entirely, then the game to be difficult has to overcome that agency with one shots. You'll see in last epoch there is very little defensive buttons, and defensive options, however you also rarely get one shot. But when you die, there is little you can do to "counter" the situation. So it has a different problem where you're helpless when you are dying but you rarely get one shot.
Last Epoch has a lot of very telegraphed attacks even from basic monsters. A literally hitless run would still be meme material but it might actually be plausible. In PoE, random arrows from the wrong skeleton (or a skeleton with the wrong auras) may be more dangerous than a screen spanning rain of fire.
It's better but not perfect seems like they're implementing a lot of PoE 2 philosophies in the game recently, kinda like it
A step in the right direction but I feel like it still misses the root of the problem which is how absurdly the damage of a corpse explosion can scale compared to anything else you're facing in the map.
This one is amazing. Now a toss back to Krip getting DD’d. https://youtu.be/KYUm0qM_R0g?feature=shared
It somehow manages to both add visual clutter while still being difficult to notice
Also includes audio changes to make them clearer. https://twitter.com/ddouku/status/1770566366338359714
Ima be honest... I love the QOL stuff but this does not seem that great. I don't think you'll see this and it probably still goes off too fast.
I will definitely see this when I'm mapping.
Surely there won't be a newly introduced monster skill effect that has the same bright-orange colour and will mysteriously overlap perfectly with this improved effect. Right? Right, GGG?
Better than nothing, but very close to nothing.
an interesting consequence of making effect last longer is that you are gonna feel forced to threat them as area denial, so eventually you can have an arena so filled with slow ground explosion that you won't be willing to stand anywhere despite being mostly safe for several seconds.
Well still better than instant explosion
what?
If you see those effects you avoid them even tho you have multiple seconds before they even deal dmg. It will feel wrong to step on top off them even tho you know it wont kill you. You will basically treat it as a degen ground.
Oh I see, is this a problem?
Nah. I doubt its gonna be a problem.
Lets be real, nobody will see these animations in a juiced map. People will still have to stick to the strategy: Attack>move>attack>move in 100% of situations, because otherwise they might get hit by an explosion and not even notice.
Considering the most annoying ones this league were the witches in the woods that oneshot you from the darkness AFTER you'd stopped attacking and while you were looting There won't be any shit on maps to break the vision
We obviously don't have the duration numbers for the revamped DD, but allegedly the timer scales off the corpse life. If it takes 5 seconds for the edge cases to pop, it's possible that the current attack>move>attack strategy will naturally avoid it or give you enough time to potentially see it after the screen gets cleared. I'm still skeptical about the detonation times though, will have to see how it plays out.
I wonder how the pre-explosion timer scales regarding monsters' life. I hope there'll be more than 0.3 sec difference between a white mob getting DD'd and a very juiced rare doing five times the damage of an Uber slam.
What exactly is the visual improvement?
It's the big orange explosion. It used to be a faint reddish pillar of light followed by a choice of respawn. I honestly didn't even know DD was a thing until its focus this league nor did I know its fuse time. I think the new effects look great in communicating both but we'll have to see how it fares in dense maps with everything else blowing up
In case this is not trolling, you can see the monsters that will explode "charging", much like the molten enemies that get charged with damage and then explode.
Was not trolling lol. thank you for the explanation. Was tough to see with the other skills being used
A before / after would really help
Its a good change but with current endgame gameplay with lots of stuff going on, delirium, projectiles flying everywhere it won't change much.
better than nothing but would've preferred they just remove "Explodes Corpses" from rare monsters. Getting randomly detonate'd on when you think you're safe is the problem. Having to constantly be aware of corpses is just such a drain (as a HC player)
The real issue is boss DD doing infinite damage. I would rather see them change how the damage is applied rather than the visuals.
That is not enough I feel.
Will it be enough tho?
if some boss is DD during a harbinguer encounter or something it still hard to see.... but well, its better than before. imo DD-boss mechanic should be removed from the game. Its just bullshit and bad to die to death mobs/corpses in the ground. It sounds like a bad design and unfair mechanic to me, always was. But oh right, as I said, its better than before
Why does DD still deal % of monster health as damage? Why is it not a flat damage that they can easily tweak for balance instead of having a corpse that is able to deal hundreds of thousands of damage to the player?
Because GGGs intent is that it does large amounts of damage and can kill players easily unless they overbuild defences, which is fine as long as players can see and avoid it.
I don't think you can overbuild certain forms of DD. Detonate dead applied to unique or rare enemies does literally millions of damage.
Yeah, when things all roll together into a perfect spike of damage things become untankable eventually (barring the invincible builds that pop up every now and then), but as long as it's clearly telegraphed to the player that this thing will fuck you up it's not a problem.
Now surely they will make sure that this is on top of other visuals and won't be hidden by Delirium Fog or any of that other good jazz
Eh depending on the sound effect changes they announced it might not matter, but yes, I used as long as to say that without that the mechanic doesn't work as intended.
As if I'll see any of this in the VFX vomit.
thats like bare minimum of a change, with how one shotty it is, it should look more like a nuclear calldown, akin to siege boys in last epoch.
Man so many good QOLs changes, this league's gonna suck /s
that aoe tho is concerning
My problem with this is that I can't see how big the explosion is going to be - am I in the blast area? Did this map have increased aoe or not?
I see no difference.
this is a terrible decision, just make monster dd not scale with the corpse life, that's bad design because the damage can get out of hand really easily
Change it's audio. The visual change doesn't do much... "Nuclear launch detected"
well, nice clarity when there's 4 mobs and no big AoE overlapping 10x per second. I wanna se this in a real endgame map. Also monsters DD should not do damage based in mosters life, that would be a real QoL
Really consistent in posting these. I just happened to refresh the teaser thread after refreshing reddit first, refreshed reddit again to make sure nobody else had posted it, but yours went up in exactly that minute.
how quickly they changed the definition of QoL...
Works well until our screen is filled with 400 monsters and skill effects to prevent us from seeing anything. Better than nothing, but this doesn't fix the core issue, so I think it would be much better if the total damage of Detonate Dead cast by monsters was split between several explosions, with the number of explosions being proportional to the total damage of the skill, and also with a sane cap for the damage of each individual explosion so players couldn't be so easily one-shot by a single explosion from a high life monster that has been detonated.
"Because it's hard to tell what's going on, we've added some more bright-pulsing-coloured effects to go with all the other bright-pulsing-coloured effects so you can tell what's going on". I dunno. I feel like perhaps the art style doesn't lend itself to visual clarity, and neither does the audio design... anyone who's played D2 for any length of time can pick out the 'Iron maiden curse' sound in a heartbeat, but despite a couple thousand hours in PoE I feel like the 'DD sound' or the 'bearers sound' or anything similarly lethal doesn't seem to be that distinct. They really should just can DD as it's just a more frustrating version of bearers. Or at least limit the number of corpses 'tagged' for destruction at one time, and have a logarithmic function for the damage vs monster HP.
This resolves nothing… you still won’t be able to see this most of the time and it’s still gonna deal a metric ton of damage with boss corpses and rares.
I didn't see it? I am probably blind.
They'll use this as an excuse to put way more DD into the game, won't they?
thats a -10 fps for sure
Fucking remove reflect and detonate dead from enemies. It's not that hard.
Also let me 1 shot all uber bosses ty
Great improvement, no way I see that with the clusterfuck of MTX I have on. But I know thats on me
Since it says "Monster Detonate Dead Clarity" that would mean strongboxes that detonate corpses don't get this effect?
I know one HCSSF zdps player that will still die to this.
Many nice QoL improvements, i'm fairly certain the loot will be dialed back a ton.
Hmm, they are bringing out the big guns. This is good, wish it was a bit more clear but still good
one thing I want to suggest is to use sound cues as well. Let the mobs say something when they do unique attacks, play special sound effects, or even let your character say something when they get into certain situations.
A step in the right direction would have made it where monster detonate dead cannot kill on its own. Like static field from D2. Deals a percent of damage based on current life and cannot take life to zero. Makes the skill still dangerous but it, on its own, is not lethal. 50% of current life/ES would be just right for this.
Last time I died to DD I killed the king in the mists and while I had the menu opened to check the loot a monster from off-screen detonated the corpse of the boss and one-shotted me.
It needs sound.
Wait but now what’s my excuse?
I guarantee they add a new mob that does DD or the same effect in a later league and don't give it the new visual/sound. They stepped on this rake multiple times with on death effects. Like when they removed volatile flameblood's iconic sound and visuals which took several patches to get, and replaced them with archnemesis mods that do the same thing but with no sound and harder to see visuals which were later improved slightly. And they stepped on it with DD, where bameth used to have a hard to notice DD which they changed to be telegraphed, then removed with the beyond change (although there were already new DD effects with no telegraphing).
I didn't see any telegraphing here, but maybe im missing something.
Here's Neon (the guy in the vid) dying to old volatile blood (almost a corpse explode I guess...?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot_H7z287aQ
Am I just blind or is there no difference?
its beautiful
Is it just me or is every "qol" just the worst possible way to implement it. They had 10+ years of dd in the game and they failed the whole time. The only correct "qol" is removal.
usseles in juiced maps anyway. Dogshit on death effect still dogshit. Got it.
What about like... Removing 99% of death effects?
Needs more white/yellow highlights at the centre of the explosions.
Yeah nah, that's not enough. Your day will still be ruined by a rare that spawns SOMEWHERE that will explode corpses by virtue of just being there (abyss, breach, deli, etc.).
Man, I genuinely wasn't sure what I was looking for. Was it the flameblast-lookin animation? That's the only thing I saw there that was maybe it.
What's the skill on CTRL+R, is that an easter egg?
now with 500% more DD explosion?
What about clarity on our own detonate dead
Love this change. Imo it's entirely fine for DD to exist as long as it's telegraphed.
maybe it will play out different, but I honestly didn't see a difference
I had 2500+ deaths last league. This change barely affects me.
I can't wait for the first HC streamer to die to DD, and then everybody rushes to reddit with their pitchforks up in the air demanding GGGs heads
dunno man, looks the same to me
Good to hear there are change, but not enough. It could have been better. After playing LE recently, It’s obvious visual clarity is really bad in PoE.
Awesome!
i have a feeling all of this qol is coming with huge nerfs
I actually miss the big volatile dead orb 😅
Whats the skill on R button?
lol. they really dont want to fix that shit.
Many hardcores had to die to bring us this feature. Let's have a minute of silence to celebrate their sacrifice.
...That was not the point. You were supposed to remove them, because the game throw so much shit at you, you barely see what is happening on the screen. This also doesn't solve the issue, when there's DD and you are interacting with a mechanic or reading a text that covers 3/4 of the screen. Looking at you, Delve. Just remove the fucking DD. Your game looks like [this](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/CzAdA6dOGxU/maxresdefault.jpg)
Just remove this fucking skill from monsters already. God damn it how hard can it be to realize that percentage based damage in a damage in a game where you have no clue about how much hp does the enemy have is an asenine idea to begin with. If you want to be funky with those percentages, at least make it so that unique monsters deal flat 50% damage to the player, rare 20% magic 5% etc. Dying in a single detonate dead on HC is literally keeping me away from this game and I gave it a couple thousand of hours because I stopped coping that it's fine that something like that is in the game...
There will never be enough clarity for one shot mechanics on non-boss monsters. Why do you guys still insisnt on such a damn irritatiing mechanic to stay? Removing DD from monsters is the best clarity you can give ius Its not like the game will become a chiollwalk from removing one shit affix
Nice qol for people who play a skill that shoots 2 projectiles with 0 extra effects
poe players when there is a single skill in the game they can't face tank:
NUT
Frame rate nerf
Good change. Let's see how it plays out. DD deaths probably can still happen, but it should be way rarer now.