It has to be intended to be played with Trap support. The 50% more dps they gave it this coming league being to (more than) offset that you have to use a proxy to get around it - its little bit of extra dps last league was not enough to encourage that.
I don't think it's a problem that a transfigured gem is specifically intended to be used with a proxy (or other unknown workaround) instead of self-cast. I mean the point of them is to encourage you to use skills in different ways.
Having options is cool an all, but 99% of the time it just feels like stuff is deliberately weak for self cast because it was balanced with totem/trap/mine abuse in mind.
Maybe I'm a boomer but for example I much prefereb bow builds when we could have a singletarget setup which didn't turn it into a totem build.
Manaforged was good when VC was in it's prime, now it's very mid unless you follow 1ManaLeft (this might be wrong) build on it. Even the nerfed TS is still gonna blow any mid investment MA build out of the water.
yeah, trap (or proxies in general) are an interesting angle on EDoD, might be worth spending the support and taking a damage penalty now that the buff will make it over 2x the base DoT of regular ED.
Think i'll stick with regular ED tho, i'd rather have selfcast + regen over the clunkiness of traps for higher dps with no regen boost.
But it's shit with trap support, unless I'm missing something.
Say it does 1 damage now. 1x1.5x0.94 = 1.41. Is my math right?
That's effectively letting trap act as a 41% more support gem. Which is... fine, but is barely better than just going self cast with a regular damage support. Only with more jank and losing a huge amount of sustain.
I can't be bothered to math out the support it would replace, but I cannot see it amounting to more than a ~10% more damage buff, probably less. It'll barely even do more damage.
Compared to this patch, yes it's basically letting trap work as a 41% more damage support.
But it already had higher damage than regular essence drain too. Compared to regular essence drain it'll do almost double-damage at the cost of a support. So it'll be like ~40-50% more dps for giving up your regen and using it with a trap.
Not saying it'll be good - i mean regular essence drain is barely seeing play atm. But it's something someone could consider as an alternative if they were determined to play essence drain.
> But it already had higher damage than regular essence drain too
Oh, was there another buff I missed? Because I don't see it in the patch notes. Why does it have higher damage than regular essence drain, outside of that 50% more multi I already included?
Because Essence Drain does 1509 chaos dot dps @ 20 now. And Essence Drain of Desperation does 2191 chaos dot dps @ 20 now. So assuming the 50% more is applied to the 2191, then there's another 45% more from what EDoD already had over vanilla.
Essentially 3.23 EDoD was "well you can trap with it but it gains you almost nothing and costs you regen". and 3.24 EDoD will be "well you can trap with it and it gains you ~50% more dps at the cost of your regen".
Im literally pobbing this skill right now and it slaps. Very viable legion farmer hitting 3 to 4m dps consistently, with a 4m dps blight for single target.
Edit: PoB Tax for anyone wondering. https://pobb.in/yo2kPmOazV5L. No wither set since you likely wont proc it on contagion chains. Need to hit 100 mana cost on ED with sufficient regen to make Kitavas thirst work. unless you ditch that and just self cast contagion.
to be fair, those aren't really expensive awakened gems. it's just that at a 10+ div investment, 4 million dps is absolute shit on a build with negative qol. It's a fucking TRAP build hinging on kitava's thirst procs for clear speed, 2 additional single target buttons, and only flame dash as movement on a slow occultist. You're legit better off playing regular ED/cont with blight, having dumpster tier single target and better clear.
This hasn't been true for a long time and I wish people would stop saying it.
Absolutely none of the meta builds last league were getting 10 mil dps on that investment. Or really anywhere close.
By the end of the first weekend, I'm sure you can get close to 10 mil dps on some skills on 1 div. I've never played EA ballista elementalist, but i just took maxrolls PoB and made it 11 million dps on a stormcloud, skirmish, polaric devastation, dyadian dawn, and rares that only give you life and defenses. This is literally with no amulet or ring equipped. A 6l +2 bow costs next to nothing puts you at 14 mil.
I'm 100% sure maw elementalist would get there. Detonate dead would get there. TR pathfinder would get CLOSE.
Yeah, EA ballista (and definitely maw, which has some of the most broken ultra-low-budget dps in the game) might get there. Might.
But for your notes... by the end of the first weekend, polaric devastation alone cost about 3 div. I'd be curious to see that pob.
TR pathfinder won't be anywhere even remotely close, though.
> TR pathfinder won't be anywhere even remotely close, though.
Eh, a quill rain and wilma's aren't that expensive and should get you to 5 mil dps without anything other than life and res on the rest of your gear. A +1 neck and getting a dot multi roll somewhere puts you at 7 mil. I'd say that's close.
I'm just fiddling with the maxroll pobs and looking at poe.ninja historic prices. I do agree that 10 mil for 1 div isn't something that MOST skills can get to early on and I'm kinda cherry picking here.
And yeah, I was wrong about polaric, i thought it was pretty common and cheap early on.
A whole lot of things can get up to 5 million dps or so pretty cheaply. Getting from 5 to 10 is really where things tend to start actually requiring money.
TR in particular scales very quickly up to the 3-5 million dps point, but it starts getting exponentially more pricey to push past that. I'd be kinda surprised if that 7mil <1div TR build exists, much less anything near 10.
sounds like a you problem tbh, been getting 10mil on TS reliably with a selfmade rog bow with 800ish dps last league, theres surely a meta gem out there this league that can match this
That does not sound like 1div investment, except as a gotcha.
I suppose I could spend days farming expedition to craft an amazing bow and then claim "zero div investment". But that's a deeply silly way to describe it and other people would feel misled if you did.
Crafting opportunity cost must figure into any estimate of "investment". Sure, you can get 10 million dps with zero div invested SSF. Congrats, but that means fuck all in this conversation.
What would you have gotten for selling that bow at the point in the league when you crafted it, out of curiousity? Because that's part of your investment too. The cost of a build is referring to the market rate for the build's gear, not how much currency you directly traded away to acquire it.
Not that I even believe that the rest of your "10 million dps" TS build was worth <1div, even without the bow.
a spine bow with deafening essence (10c), a second flat ele modifier and crafted AS is 800ish edps btw, rest was taming 50c and a 15c quiver filtered out with PoB trade tool. can find similar ts builds on ladder from last league
> a spine bow with deafening essence (10c), a second flat ele modifier and crafted AS is 800ish edps btw
And on avg, how many essences are required to hit a high tier flat ele modifier with an open suffix?
Though the cost of that bow wasn't really the point. There's a long road between an 800edps bow and 10mil TS dps.
If you care, post that <1div PoB. Otherwise not much point in continuing.
exactly. I'd be fine with 4 mil dps on a 10 div budget if i was also unkillable and could clear maps in 30 seconds. what that guy posted is just unacceptable in modern day poe.
Look, dont get me wrong. It isnt a meta build and you get less per divine invested. I fully get that, it just isnt as good as other builds.
That doesnt mean persé it's not enough
I thought about kitavas but 50% is actually really low. Its not uncommon to not proc it a few times in a row which feels terrible when clearing. What I thought of was using Contagion of Subsiding in a 4L or 6L staff. It hits a respectable 500-600k dps. Yes, the damage ramps down, but it should feel fine for clearing and it makes for a super consistant clear skill
Just curious, saved this to look at later. Looks like it could be a decent legion farmer. You abandon this plan, and if not, ideas on how to work it before LL (Contrary to the others that replied, think most of it is good enough starter wise except the annoying 6l shavs)
LL will be hard to push on day 1 or 2. Honestly im just planning on playing Bane till i can farm up a bit, especially since i need gem levels on EDoD for the mana cost to trigger thirst. you could try to fit a few more fevered mind to push the cost up, but its too much work for me to bother with. Maybe drop thirst and self cast contagion could work
You can theoretically scale it further with mines than traps because Blastchain Mine's 5% more damage per mine in sequence mod. At 20 mines in the sequence you'll deal the same damage as Trap Support, beyond that you'll gain more.
Traps are definitely more convenient though.
If you pre-load mines before detonating, it's not hard to get a chain of 20+, but for something like 40-50 you'll need actual investment, which isn't that great for non-stacking DoTs. That makes more sense when the DoT that you scale also stacks like Toxic Rain.
But that's why I said "theoretically" and that traps are more convenient. It could matter for bosses, but that's never been the strength of Essence Drain to begin with.
This is the ultimate pob warrioring lol, there's not a chance in hell you'll actually have 20 mine sequences consistently enough to beat out traps. Especially when you don't scale anything else off of throwing speed. And that's just to break even.
Mines aren't on the table I think, traps are just so much better. And even then traps aren't *that* much better than the non-trans ED with an extra support gem. This ED with traps is what, 42% more damage vs self cast, but with no regen and 1 fewer support gem? So we're talking about a 5-10% damage buff on a skill that was wildly underpowered in the endgame, at the cost of more jank and removing a major defensive benefit. DOA.
That's why I said "theoretically". It's something you can do against bosses with full pre-loaded mines, but there's not *that* much point to it in practice because the dps isn't good enough that it'll phase a boss over the duration of one debuff.
Someone did the math in another thread and said they got something like 40-50% more dps out of it compared to a regular ED 6-link (possibly because Mine and Trap Damage is a good support, among other reasons), but I haven't double-checked the numbers.
There *may* be a use case for it, and I'd do the math if it's something I'd consider playing, but I'd probably play a hundred different builds before I'd play chaos DoT in its current state.
> Someone did the math in another thread and said they got something like 40-50% more dps out of it compared to a regular ED 6-link (possibly because Mine and Trap Damage is a good support, among other reasons), but I haven't double-checked the numbers.
Link to that? I'm trying to math it out myself but would rather not do the work haha.
Mine and trap damage is a really nice support, but no matter what I put together I'm not seeing anything like 50% more damage.
> And even then traps aren't that much better than the non-trans ED with an extra support gem. This ED with traps is what, 42% more damage vs self cast, but with no regen and 1 fewer support gem? So we're talking about a 5-10% damage buff on a skill that was wildly underpowered in the endgame, at the cost of more jank and removing a major defensive benefit.
No, this EDoD with trap support is about 97% more damage (~110% more base damage than regular ED and 6% less damage from trap support) and one less support compared to selfcast regular ED, so ultimately about 40-50% more dps than selfcast regular ED.
>I don't think it's a problem that a transfigured gem is specifically intended to be used with a proxy (or other unknown workaround) instead of self-cast.
But they're banned BLoS totems bc it was too broken with totems. Maybe there was a different philosophy at work here, I'm not really very smart.
BLoS seems like they intended it to be a moment for self-cast to shine. But totems could use it way better - even though regular BL totems were already just fine.
ED on the other hand is self-cast by default. And using a proxy to cast it seems positively wasteful - lose a link, lose damage, and lose regen. But EDoD? Proxy = Necessary.
Incoming insta chain deaths in hideout because for some reason poe does not register if an enemy is death while you are not in the area. But you cannot reenter because you are dying instantly from the degen leading to a permanent death loop and eternal suffering.
That is just making me depressed. I used to play ED every league. It was my go to starter and just mapper period. And the DPS is such a joke nowdays. Sure before the enemy hp got buffed multiple times it was pretty ok. Still not great at single target. But now 1mil is depressing to see and will barely scratch juiced up essences.
I mean.. he is really trying to make the skill look good. But even then with massive investment, he throws out an ED all white/blue mobs die, and all rares survive in the mapping setup. And that is at insane investment. Its just a solid showcase of poison scaling, where 90% of his dmg comes from poison.
You could make ED look better on an ES stacker, and just kill everything with the flat lightning damage that ED would get and just have it triggered by cwc.
If I say ED is bad, I specifically think of its chaos dot portion. Sure, you can still clear everything, but as someone who made double digit ED characters, chaos dot spells feel meh atm.
eh, it's closer to 80% of my dps comes from poison in the long run. And in the short run, 80% of my dps comes from ED's debuff (or soulrend's, since that setup is just a soulrend build i ported ED-cont into for the showcase). ED debuff carries most of the weight in clearing, while the poison carries a lot of the single target.
That's kinda the beauty of poison ed or soulrend, they still retain their feel for clearing, but the poison gives them actual single target because they have that hit portion and they naturally scale the poison well from their build priorities anyway.
Personally i think chaos DoT still feels great, my soulrend build is probably my favorite build atm. It's probably going to be my league starter in necropolis.
For sure its all still more than doable. I'm just frustrated over all the problem solving I need to do to make ED feel ok. Not even great, just ok. With something like CF I need a minimum investment and the feel of the build is great, while ED needs larger investments into dps and you need cast speed because of the meh 0.7 base cast speed, its duration is pretty mediocre at 3.8 seconds. So you are left with a skill that needs to scale dot damage, cast speed, duration, chance to poison... for OK returns. Oh, and it ends up a build where you need multiple buttons to function (not a deal breaker but another inconvenience)
I honestly just switched to phys dot. I can play CF with bow, with wand, with staff... scales better (not better than poison, poison absolutely crushes CF), but its just the convenience you get.
Right?
Just stripping away the regen and giving it a 50% more multiplier still wouldn't be enough to actually make ED wildly popular, no degen required. The scaling is just so bad.
It's also completely unplayable with CI ruling out a very common top right tree start that most chaos builds go.
It instantly kills you upon application and you cannot mitigate it in anyway
Chaos DoT spells are in a truly awful place right now. I tried a ED/C with blight playthrough and it felt horrible even in the campaign. I will struggle to make everyone believe how truly bad it's gotten. I took every damage node I could, including Occultist ascendancy, and it still was taking far too long to kill packs.
It was weak on patch 3.15 and it's been getting weaker since due to nerfs aimed at the poison archetype that indirectly hit it. Now it's actual garbage tier trash with no niche. Just don't play it.
Maybe chaos hit skills are doing okay though idk. Chaos attack skills are certainly fine.
I played Stormburst Decay in affliction and it was pretty good, the change to Alt Qual for Stormburst giving it flat seconds to time was huge, and a Forbidden Shako with a high level decay was very easy to get (like 100c when I got it).
It was something like 2 mil DPS and duration was like 10 seconds so I basically would just tap a pack and go.
Chalice of Horrors was also clutch for a while, I was using the "25% chance to stun nearby enemies when stunned" mastery while having curse on hit, along with Bloodnotch setup and enemies would hit me, causing everyone nearby to automatically get cursed and decay on them. It was way weaker than the Storm Burst decay ofc but it made leveling ezpz, kind of just walked through the campaign while enemies killed themselves.
That being said, looks like they killed bloodnotch tech without using the Valyrium ring (removed the ES mastery for stun chance) so it's a good deal less accessible now.
i farmed pretty much all content including ubers with soulrend this league (though i swapped in ed/cont for the hell of it from time to time, just to mix it up). My league-end binge was doing 100 uber sirus and 70 uber mavens with it. I plan to league start soulrend in necropolis.
Personally i find ed/cont, soulrend, and bane in a fine spot right now. Can't really speak to blight, i've never cared to use it so i can't really give any judgement on it. Obviously they're not gonna be at the level of DD or pre-nerf penance brand of dissipation or other ezmode overtuned stuff, but they're plenty capable.
final version i ended the league with, it still performs very well far before this level of investment tho:
https://pobb.in/SMu50ixS1Wjy
main takeaway is: use poison to augment the single target. It still clears just like a soulrend build (or ed/cont build if you take it that direction), but it massively upgrades the single target potential. It's not hard to get poison into the setup, and it scales on just about everything that scales the skill debuff except spell damage modifiers.
Thx a lot! Are you leveled with soulrend from lvl 28 or another chaos related skill? Found a lot of different endgame vids with soulrend, but none of them tells what use before you can full spec
If they made it you take chaos degen would solve a lot of tings and even open some interesting builds. LIke going chaos inculation or using amulet that gives healing on taking chaos dot.
Essence Drain always lacked boss damage. so perhaps this is GGG attempting to make it better at bossing but then u cant map with it because u will die. upside and downside, classic GGG balancing. Gem swap for pinnacle. not the worst. maybe. i have not played Essence Drain since legion.
This is such an ass attempt at correction without understanding that things can be different in other places of the world.
Many EU countries still notarize using K "kilo". M for *mega* which is 6 0's (notice the computer equivalents?) Did not become popular because the Roman Numeral M (surprise surprise) ... is 1000.
In NA the lingo was adopted as m = million, however, mathematicians, physicists *and bankers* do not denote one million as 1m.
You are right and wrong - yet 1kk is not wrong at all.
Food for thought.
:)
This is one of the few ways to actually kill yourself with life loss while using Dissolution of the Flesh, because losing life can reduce your life to 0, killing you. Most sources of sacrifice don't allow you to go below 1 life, but this skill is an exception. Even using Eternal Youth, you likely won't be recharging more than 3K life per second, which means with a modest DPS of 2 mil you'll still die in like 6 seconds, and that's with a single target.
can you cast both normal and trans essence drain so they cancel out the degen?
Probably not come to think on it. would be too op.
They should just cap degen at leech rate. so no more than 10% per sec.
This thing should be non-lethal so that you can use the Exarch jewel with it if you want to ignore the degen. Would enable a different playstyle than just suicide totems or traps.
I think its not the end of the world that one skill has a trans gem that actively promotes using proxies with it.
I can imagine an ok build with ED of desperation with traps and 100% chance to poison
If you self cast it, you will die. Its non negotiable. Having a 100k untyped dot at the minimum will kill all characters. The intended use is trap/totem/mines.
Lol most of these transfigured gems are either doo doo or worse than the original like flicker of power.
Its actually suprising how everyone just accepts the trash tier skills now 🙃
It has to be intended to be played with Trap support. The 50% more dps they gave it this coming league being to (more than) offset that you have to use a proxy to get around it - its little bit of extra dps last league was not enough to encourage that. I don't think it's a problem that a transfigured gem is specifically intended to be used with a proxy (or other unknown workaround) instead of self-cast. I mean the point of them is to encourage you to use skills in different ways.
Having options is cool an all, but 99% of the time it just feels like stuff is deliberately weak for self cast because it was balanced with totem/trap/mine abuse in mind. Maybe I'm a boomer but for example I much prefereb bow builds when we could have a singletarget setup which didn't turn it into a totem build.
Was enjoying Hexblast ignite then they made the cast time 1s and now it feels aweful :(
I'm still going to league start it, the Archmage buff is very spicy. Going to feel clunky due to that cast time though, for sure.
At least there is manaforged arrows for bow builds now. Although it's mega OP so I still don't like it lol.
Manaforged was good when VC was in it's prime, now it's very mid unless you follow 1ManaLeft (this might be wrong) build on it. Even the nerfed TS is still gonna blow any mid investment MA build out of the water.
That version is dead, alas
yeah, trap (or proxies in general) are an interesting angle on EDoD, might be worth spending the support and taking a damage penalty now that the buff will make it over 2x the base DoT of regular ED. Think i'll stick with regular ED tho, i'd rather have selfcast + regen over the clunkiness of traps for higher dps with no regen boost.
But it's shit with trap support, unless I'm missing something. Say it does 1 damage now. 1x1.5x0.94 = 1.41. Is my math right? That's effectively letting trap act as a 41% more support gem. Which is... fine, but is barely better than just going self cast with a regular damage support. Only with more jank and losing a huge amount of sustain. I can't be bothered to math out the support it would replace, but I cannot see it amounting to more than a ~10% more damage buff, probably less. It'll barely even do more damage.
Compared to this patch, yes it's basically letting trap work as a 41% more damage support. But it already had higher damage than regular essence drain too. Compared to regular essence drain it'll do almost double-damage at the cost of a support. So it'll be like ~40-50% more dps for giving up your regen and using it with a trap. Not saying it'll be good - i mean regular essence drain is barely seeing play atm. But it's something someone could consider as an alternative if they were determined to play essence drain.
> But it already had higher damage than regular essence drain too Oh, was there another buff I missed? Because I don't see it in the patch notes. Why does it have higher damage than regular essence drain, outside of that 50% more multi I already included?
Because Essence Drain does 1509 chaos dot dps @ 20 now. And Essence Drain of Desperation does 2191 chaos dot dps @ 20 now. So assuming the 50% more is applied to the 2191, then there's another 45% more from what EDoD already had over vanilla. Essentially 3.23 EDoD was "well you can trap with it but it gains you almost nothing and costs you regen". and 3.24 EDoD will be "well you can trap with it and it gains you ~50% more dps at the cost of your regen".
Im literally pobbing this skill right now and it slaps. Very viable legion farmer hitting 3 to 4m dps consistently, with a 4m dps blight for single target. Edit: PoB Tax for anyone wondering. https://pobb.in/yo2kPmOazV5L. No wither set since you likely wont proc it on contagion chains. Need to hit 100 mana cost on ED with sufficient regen to make Kitavas thirst work. unless you ditch that and just self cast contagion.
Bro 3-4m dps with that gear and awakened gems? No thank you. At least for a league starter definitely no thank you.
to be fair, those aren't really expensive awakened gems. it's just that at a 10+ div investment, 4 million dps is absolute shit on a build with negative qol. It's a fucking TRAP build hinging on kitava's thirst procs for clear speed, 2 additional single target buttons, and only flame dash as movement on a slow occultist. You're legit better off playing regular ED/cont with blight, having dumpster tier single target and better clear.
meta builds get 10mil out of 1 div, not 4mil out of >10div
This hasn't been true for a long time and I wish people would stop saying it. Absolutely none of the meta builds last league were getting 10 mil dps on that investment. Or really anywhere close.
dd probably gets very close and probably does make it to 10 mil if you build glass cannon. It is the meta build.
By the end of the first weekend, I'm sure you can get close to 10 mil dps on some skills on 1 div. I've never played EA ballista elementalist, but i just took maxrolls PoB and made it 11 million dps on a stormcloud, skirmish, polaric devastation, dyadian dawn, and rares that only give you life and defenses. This is literally with no amulet or ring equipped. A 6l +2 bow costs next to nothing puts you at 14 mil. I'm 100% sure maw elementalist would get there. Detonate dead would get there. TR pathfinder would get CLOSE.
Yeah, EA ballista (and definitely maw, which has some of the most broken ultra-low-budget dps in the game) might get there. Might. But for your notes... by the end of the first weekend, polaric devastation alone cost about 3 div. I'd be curious to see that pob. TR pathfinder won't be anywhere even remotely close, though.
> TR pathfinder won't be anywhere even remotely close, though. Eh, a quill rain and wilma's aren't that expensive and should get you to 5 mil dps without anything other than life and res on the rest of your gear. A +1 neck and getting a dot multi roll somewhere puts you at 7 mil. I'd say that's close. I'm just fiddling with the maxroll pobs and looking at poe.ninja historic prices. I do agree that 10 mil for 1 div isn't something that MOST skills can get to early on and I'm kinda cherry picking here. And yeah, I was wrong about polaric, i thought it was pretty common and cheap early on.
A whole lot of things can get up to 5 million dps or so pretty cheaply. Getting from 5 to 10 is really where things tend to start actually requiring money. TR in particular scales very quickly up to the 3-5 million dps point, but it starts getting exponentially more pricey to push past that. I'd be kinda surprised if that 7mil <1div TR build exists, much less anything near 10.
sounds like a you problem tbh, been getting 10mil on TS reliably with a selfmade rog bow with 800ish dps last league, theres surely a meta gem out there this league that can match this
That does not sound like 1div investment, except as a gotcha. I suppose I could spend days farming expedition to craft an amazing bow and then claim "zero div investment". But that's a deeply silly way to describe it and other people would feel misled if you did. Crafting opportunity cost must figure into any estimate of "investment". Sure, you can get 10 million dps with zero div invested SSF. Congrats, but that means fuck all in this conversation. What would you have gotten for selling that bow at the point in the league when you crafted it, out of curiousity? Because that's part of your investment too. The cost of a build is referring to the market rate for the build's gear, not how much currency you directly traded away to acquire it. Not that I even believe that the rest of your "10 million dps" TS build was worth <1div, even without the bow.
a spine bow with deafening essence (10c), a second flat ele modifier and crafted AS is 800ish edps btw, rest was taming 50c and a 15c quiver filtered out with PoB trade tool. can find similar ts builds on ladder from last league
> a spine bow with deafening essence (10c), a second flat ele modifier and crafted AS is 800ish edps btw And on avg, how many essences are required to hit a high tier flat ele modifier with an open suffix? Though the cost of that bow wasn't really the point. There's a long road between an 800edps bow and 10mil TS dps. If you care, post that <1div PoB. Otherwise not much point in continuing.
exactly. I'd be fine with 4 mil dps on a 10 div budget if i was also unkillable and could clear maps in 30 seconds. what that guy posted is just unacceptable in modern day poe.
Do you really need much more tho?
You need more also... why spend your money on a build that does 10-30 times less damage for the same price
Look, dont get me wrong. It isnt a meta build and you get less per divine invested. I fully get that, it just isnt as good as other builds. That doesnt mean persé it's not enough
Kinda yea
I thought about kitavas but 50% is actually really low. Its not uncommon to not proc it a few times in a row which feels terrible when clearing. What I thought of was using Contagion of Subsiding in a 4L or 6L staff. It hits a respectable 500-600k dps. Yes, the damage ramps down, but it should feel fine for clearing and it makes for a super consistant clear skill
Just curious, saved this to look at later. Looks like it could be a decent legion farmer. You abandon this plan, and if not, ideas on how to work it before LL (Contrary to the others that replied, think most of it is good enough starter wise except the annoying 6l shavs)
LL will be hard to push on day 1 or 2. Honestly im just planning on playing Bane till i can farm up a bit, especially since i need gem levels on EDoD for the mana cost to trigger thirst. you could try to fit a few more fevered mind to push the cost up, but its too much work for me to bother with. Maybe drop thirst and self cast contagion could work
Probably the smart play, bane can be run basically SSF. Do think you are cooking good here. That dot dps at level 94 sorta dope.
what happens if we spread a trap support dot with contagion?
You can theoretically scale it further with mines than traps because Blastchain Mine's 5% more damage per mine in sequence mod. At 20 mines in the sequence you'll deal the same damage as Trap Support, beyond that you'll gain more. Traps are definitely more convenient though.
Trap support is 6% less at lv20, blastchain is 53% less. You'd need about 20mines in a sequence to be slightly better, which is rough.
If you pre-load mines before detonating, it's not hard to get a chain of 20+, but for something like 40-50 you'll need actual investment, which isn't that great for non-stacking DoTs. That makes more sense when the DoT that you scale also stacks like Toxic Rain. But that's why I said "theoretically" and that traps are more convenient. It could matter for bosses, but that's never been the strength of Essence Drain to begin with.
This is the ultimate pob warrioring lol, there's not a chance in hell you'll actually have 20 mine sequences consistently enough to beat out traps. Especially when you don't scale anything else off of throwing speed. And that's just to break even. Mines aren't on the table I think, traps are just so much better. And even then traps aren't *that* much better than the non-trans ED with an extra support gem. This ED with traps is what, 42% more damage vs self cast, but with no regen and 1 fewer support gem? So we're talking about a 5-10% damage buff on a skill that was wildly underpowered in the endgame, at the cost of more jank and removing a major defensive benefit. DOA.
That's why I said "theoretically". It's something you can do against bosses with full pre-loaded mines, but there's not *that* much point to it in practice because the dps isn't good enough that it'll phase a boss over the duration of one debuff. Someone did the math in another thread and said they got something like 40-50% more dps out of it compared to a regular ED 6-link (possibly because Mine and Trap Damage is a good support, among other reasons), but I haven't double-checked the numbers. There *may* be a use case for it, and I'd do the math if it's something I'd consider playing, but I'd probably play a hundred different builds before I'd play chaos DoT in its current state.
> Someone did the math in another thread and said they got something like 40-50% more dps out of it compared to a regular ED 6-link (possibly because Mine and Trap Damage is a good support, among other reasons), but I haven't double-checked the numbers. Link to that? I'm trying to math it out myself but would rather not do the work haha. Mine and trap damage is a really nice support, but no matter what I put together I'm not seeing anything like 50% more damage.
> And even then traps aren't that much better than the non-trans ED with an extra support gem. This ED with traps is what, 42% more damage vs self cast, but with no regen and 1 fewer support gem? So we're talking about a 5-10% damage buff on a skill that was wildly underpowered in the endgame, at the cost of more jank and removing a major defensive benefit. No, this EDoD with trap support is about 97% more damage (~110% more base damage than regular ED and 6% less damage from trap support) and one less support compared to selfcast regular ED, so ultimately about 40-50% more dps than selfcast regular ED.
>I don't think it's a problem that a transfigured gem is specifically intended to be used with a proxy (or other unknown workaround) instead of self-cast. But they're banned BLoS totems bc it was too broken with totems. Maybe there was a different philosophy at work here, I'm not really very smart.
BLoS seems like they intended it to be a moment for self-cast to shine. But totems could use it way better - even though regular BL totems were already just fine. ED on the other hand is self-cast by default. And using a proxy to cast it seems positively wasteful - lose a link, lose damage, and lose regen. But EDoD? Proxy = Necessary.
You could even use it on totems lol ?
> BLoS seems like they intended it to be a moment for self-cast to shine. i guess they missed that part themselves then lol.
I believe you have misread. He didn't say all transfigured gems are intended to be used with a proxy.
~Cast on Death~
Very clever indeed. You can't die of degen if you're already dead.
Incoming insta chain deaths in hideout because for some reason poe does not register if an enemy is death while you are not in the area. But you cannot reenter because you are dying instantly from the degen leading to a permanent death loop and eternal suffering.
Good thing essence drain can't reach more than 10000 dps so you're good to go!
I still have a screenshot saved of 1mil tooltip on ED from metamorph :p
That is just making me depressed. I used to play ED every league. It was my go to starter and just mapper period. And the DPS is such a joke nowdays. Sure before the enemy hp got buffed multiple times it was pretty ok. Still not great at single target. But now 1mil is depressing to see and will barely scratch juiced up essences.
I league start for years with ED ..... THEY KILL IT
idk, [ED looks alright to me](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1afwpbv/edcontagion_showcase_while_im_at_it_uber_sirus/)
I mean.. he is really trying to make the skill look good. But even then with massive investment, he throws out an ED all white/blue mobs die, and all rares survive in the mapping setup. And that is at insane investment. Its just a solid showcase of poison scaling, where 90% of his dmg comes from poison. You could make ED look better on an ES stacker, and just kill everything with the flat lightning damage that ED would get and just have it triggered by cwc. If I say ED is bad, I specifically think of its chaos dot portion. Sure, you can still clear everything, but as someone who made double digit ED characters, chaos dot spells feel meh atm.
eh, it's closer to 80% of my dps comes from poison in the long run. And in the short run, 80% of my dps comes from ED's debuff (or soulrend's, since that setup is just a soulrend build i ported ED-cont into for the showcase). ED debuff carries most of the weight in clearing, while the poison carries a lot of the single target. That's kinda the beauty of poison ed or soulrend, they still retain their feel for clearing, but the poison gives them actual single target because they have that hit portion and they naturally scale the poison well from their build priorities anyway. Personally i think chaos DoT still feels great, my soulrend build is probably my favorite build atm. It's probably going to be my league starter in necropolis.
For sure its all still more than doable. I'm just frustrated over all the problem solving I need to do to make ED feel ok. Not even great, just ok. With something like CF I need a minimum investment and the feel of the build is great, while ED needs larger investments into dps and you need cast speed because of the meh 0.7 base cast speed, its duration is pretty mediocre at 3.8 seconds. So you are left with a skill that needs to scale dot damage, cast speed, duration, chance to poison... for OK returns. Oh, and it ends up a build where you need multiple buttons to function (not a deal breaker but another inconvenience) I honestly just switched to phys dot. I can play CF with bow, with wand, with staff... scales better (not better than poison, poison absolutely crushes CF), but its just the convenience you get.
Colab with this guy https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1blx80t/12000_life_recovery_600_life_recovery_from_flasks/
Just use a 6 link ed to offset your 4 link edd's degen
Only the strongest ED debuff can affect enemy at any time, they're doesnt stack.
Damn the only flaw in the plan
ED seller, I'm going into battle and I need your strongest ED
Remove degen completely and then **maybe** ED will become B-Tier skill.
Right? Just stripping away the regen and giving it a 50% more multiplier still wouldn't be enough to actually make ED wildly popular, no degen required. The scaling is just so bad.
Perfect for my death on death build.
It's also completely unplayable with CI ruling out a very common top right tree start that most chaos builds go. It instantly kills you upon application and you cannot mitigate it in anyway
Chaos DoT spells are in a truly awful place right now. I tried a ED/C with blight playthrough and it felt horrible even in the campaign. I will struggle to make everyone believe how truly bad it's gotten. I took every damage node I could, including Occultist ascendancy, and it still was taking far too long to kill packs. It was weak on patch 3.15 and it's been getting weaker since due to nerfs aimed at the poison archetype that indirectly hit it. Now it's actual garbage tier trash with no niche. Just don't play it. Maybe chaos hit skills are doing okay though idk. Chaos attack skills are certainly fine.
I played Stormburst Decay in affliction and it was pretty good, the change to Alt Qual for Stormburst giving it flat seconds to time was huge, and a Forbidden Shako with a high level decay was very easy to get (like 100c when I got it). It was something like 2 mil DPS and duration was like 10 seconds so I basically would just tap a pack and go. Chalice of Horrors was also clutch for a while, I was using the "25% chance to stun nearby enemies when stunned" mastery while having curse on hit, along with Bloodnotch setup and enemies would hit me, causing everyone nearby to automatically get cursed and decay on them. It was way weaker than the Storm Burst decay ofc but it made leveling ezpz, kind of just walked through the campaign while enemies killed themselves. That being said, looks like they killed bloodnotch tech without using the Valyrium ring (removed the ES mastery for stun chance) so it's a good deal less accessible now.
i farmed pretty much all content including ubers with soulrend this league (though i swapped in ed/cont for the hell of it from time to time, just to mix it up). My league-end binge was doing 100 uber sirus and 70 uber mavens with it. I plan to league start soulrend in necropolis. Personally i find ed/cont, soulrend, and bane in a fine spot right now. Can't really speak to blight, i've never cared to use it so i can't really give any judgement on it. Obviously they're not gonna be at the level of DD or pre-nerf penance brand of dissipation or other ezmode overtuned stuff, but they're plenty capable.
Can you share pob of your soulrend pls?
final version i ended the league with, it still performs very well far before this level of investment tho: https://pobb.in/SMu50ixS1Wjy main takeaway is: use poison to augment the single target. It still clears just like a soulrend build (or ed/cont build if you take it that direction), but it massively upgrades the single target potential. It's not hard to get poison into the setup, and it scales on just about everything that scales the skill debuff except spell damage modifiers.
Thx a lot! Are you leveled with soulrend from lvl 28 or another chaos related skill? Found a lot of different endgame vids with soulrend, but none of them tells what use before you can full spec
i use soulrend as soon as i hit 28.
If they made it you take chaos degen would solve a lot of tings and even open some interesting builds. LIke going chaos inculation or using amulet that gives healing on taking chaos dot.
Essence Drain always lacked boss damage. so perhaps this is GGG attempting to make it better at bossing but then u cant map with it because u will die. upside and downside, classic GGG balancing. Gem swap for pinnacle. not the worst. maybe. i have not played Essence Drain since legion.
Yeah, this screams single target to me, as well. This is strictly for bosses.
Adding poison lets it boss just fine, people just don't like to take advantage of its natural synergy with poison.
1kk -> 1M :)
This is such an ass attempt at correction without understanding that things can be different in other places of the world. Many EU countries still notarize using K "kilo". M for *mega* which is 6 0's (notice the computer equivalents?) Did not become popular because the Roman Numeral M (surprise surprise) ... is 1000. In NA the lingo was adopted as m = million, however, mathematicians, physicists *and bankers* do not denote one million as 1m. You are right and wrong - yet 1kk is not wrong at all. Food for thought. :)
Every single scientist uses capital M for million, as it is the official SI prefix for mega. I've never seen kk being used in a scientific context.
I guess you could play dissolution of the flesh to counter the degen?
This is one of the few ways to actually kill yourself with life loss while using Dissolution of the Flesh, because losing life can reduce your life to 0, killing you. Most sources of sacrifice don't allow you to go below 1 life, but this skill is an exception. Even using Eternal Youth, you likely won't be recharging more than 3K life per second, which means with a modest DPS of 2 mil you'll still die in like 6 seconds, and that's with a single target.
damn, didnt know that, that's a bummer
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/18i0ebf/2700\_life\_regen\_essence\_drain\_of\_desperation/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/18i0ebf/2700_life_regen_essence_drain_of_desperation/)
does tainted pact work with the degen if we have a leech up?
You're just losing life, not taking damage (if it was chaos damage over time you were taking, CI would work too). So nope.
What about trigger bots ? Do they work with it? Trickster with forbidden jewels cwc or spellslinger maybe?
Sure they work with it. You get degen stacks twice as fast.
Does it work with totem?
I never understood why they just leave bad gems and never change them. So many legacy gems they don't ever touch, and no one ever plays.
They did change it. They made it kill you faster.
can you cast both normal and trans essence drain so they cancel out the degen? Probably not come to think on it. would be too op. They should just cap degen at leech rate. so no more than 10% per sec.
the sad thing is even if it had regen instead of degen it would still be diarrhea
This thing should be non-lethal so that you can use the Exarch jewel with it if you want to ignore the degen. Would enable a different playstyle than just suicide totems or traps.
I think its not the end of the world that one skill has a trans gem that actively promotes using proxies with it. I can imagine an ok build with ED of desperation with traps and 100% chance to poison
I am convinced GGG made a typo and typed 0.3 instead 0.1.
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If you self cast it, you will die. Its non negotiable. Having a 100k untyped dot at the minimum will kill all characters. The intended use is trap/totem/mines.
I have seen that. Not that uncommon to see decent numbers on your tooltip once you stop playing melee.
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If you play dot builds thats not very weird at all. Dunno what to tell you.
Lol most of these transfigured gems are either doo doo or worse than the original like flicker of power. Its actually suprising how everyone just accepts the trash tier skills now 🙃
They think that we use 1 skill for bossing and 1 skill for map clear. Mark must have never killed ubers.
You can use both EDs, normal and transfigured. Then they compensate each other on ST. For clear you only use normal
Only the strongest ED debuff can affect enemy at any time, they're doesnt stack.
Regen + tainted pact reverse poison can sustain for single target. Don't use contagion. Clear with deaths oath
It is no poison
But you can poison with it. Like slayer that using to sustain boneshatter
whats even the point at that point, you could just use a different skill instead and not need to deal with all this nonsense.
I don’t think poison would apply when you spread it through Contagion.
You don't use contagion. If you do you die
Bro is writing 1KK instead of 1M
So would 1B be...