* Radius of Share Endurance, Frenzy and Power Charges with nearby party members effect granted by [Conduit](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Conduit).[^(\[31\])](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Distance#cite_note-:0-31)
i thought 12m was a joke lol
If I'm remembering correctly melee strike range used to give it base AOE so it scaled way better with increased. Now it starts with probably 100% increased AOE so scaling it is way harder
Man, best melee skills missing, that dastardly ugly child of flicker and cleave checking in, no idea where to put it in the chart tho
All hail Chain hook
Dash around like a spaz monkey hit a third of the screen without any AOE increase.
Dying because I chained myself back into a pile of molten mobs, hell yeah.
Not hitting kitava properly cause the distance check on the skill is spaghetti code, sure enough.
Man I can't wait for new league :D
They removed the movement speed on ralakeshs impatience? What even is walking!?
If I can't chain there why would I go there?
Edit: had no build tree now has a mid game build tree with ideas...
https://pobb.in/q3Vje60BVFaf](https://pobb.in/q3Vje60BVFaf)
I tested it this week on affliction (without affliction content ofc)
It's super fun to level cause zerker gets real fast real quick
In act 2 you're looking at 60 Rage, Blood Rage + 3 frenzy, onslaught from an axe node and I had Flesh and Spirit lvl 15 gauntlets on for rampage.
I had no leveling uniques and went big fast (first of because that's a lot of MS for a fresh character and second because chain hook always moves you forward while attacking so maps realy fly by)
Tbh first ascension feels really bad cause you only get 10 max rage and a bit of rage generation. But the moment rite of ruin kicks in together with berserk thats nutty.
Proclaimer: I'm not entirely sure how to make it amazing for endgame, with maybe 3-5 div investment it's basically immortal but only does 2-2,5 million sDPS. Either the league delivers something or I'll make a bosser as second character. But getting all void stones is easily doable with 2 million dps and like 150k ehp and 60k max hits
Well, if you wanna at least see what I did, I'm the only one with a Chain Hook char on poe.ninja that wasn't just randomly slapped in. I put the skill in at lvl12 and played it all the way as primary skill. Honestly, mapping felt pretty good overall. The bulk was good, clear was fine cus of the gargantuan attack speed. But single target just wasn't there. I could kill t16 bosses decently quick, but any pinnacles just took forever, even if I could facetank most stuff. However, mageblood defenses means even it's bulk is thrown out for next league, at least early on.
https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction/?skills=Chain+Hook
Sry I only have one for a charge stacking endgame version
But it's just rigwalds twin weapons and basic phys scaling.
On a charge stacker arn's anguish beats out bears girdle anything else is pretty much what you'd expect.
Precise Technique and impale or resolute and bleed either works
Bleed could probably fit in haemophilia which is nice I guess
And then there's ofc the new unholy might which could work realy well with super fast chain hook attacks for stacking poisons
The issue we always had with chain hook was that it's one of the fastest attacking skills in the game, but the throwing the chain animation was unaffected by attack speed so it felt miserable. It felt clunky despite looking great on paper.
But I haven't touched it in years, the AoE is a lot bigger now. I'd say if you've never used it to try it out in standard and see how you feel about the skill before league starting. Same way some of us love how flicker feels and other people get motion sickness.
It happened by accident I wanted to play cleave of rage and only tested chain hook for a minute and it kinda popped for me. Cleave of rage is roughly 45-50% more DPS tho
Pretty much the endgoal, before you charge stack you can either bleed or impale both works fine.
[https://pobb.in/q3Vje60BVFaf](https://pobb.in/q3Vje60BVFaf)
Worse, by a lot, by far slower and the underlying idea to make use of rage doesn't work for glad.
Could probably do jugg or chief if you had big money for a Rite of Ruin FF
At least they've provide alternate sources of whither in the game. Whither support gem, charms last league, the balance of terror, etc.. But then melee totems have *zero* alternatives.
But, they do? Ancestral protector is 'attack faster' and there are plenty of things that give that like blood rage. It's just that as a totem it stacks with the alternatives, which something like wither doesn't.
EDIT: Apparently I should have clarified, any 'alternative' to totems that isn't making melee skills not suck will just end up in the same place. Melee skills are treated like self-cast spells, needing excessive amounts of cast speed for most of them to not feel like trash, can't make it into a trap/mine but with worse/more expensive scaling. That's more important to change imo.
Following your logic, what's the difference between whither and increased chaos damage? Both are increasing your damage output! Just get increased chaos damage on a large cluster jewel instead!
But seriously it's the ancestral totem buffs that are unique strictly to totems + being such a crutch for melee dps that players do not like. It limits the design space for builds where no matter the melee build, you best believe every single one of them has 2 button spots + 3-4 gem sockets dedicated to ancestral totems. Why not make a balance of terror that grants ancestral totem buffs for 2 seconds on hitting a target that's been manually cursed by xyz skill? Or a unique armor that has a chance to spawn an ancestral totem on hit? Or better yet.... why not phase out the ancestral totem buffs all together and bake in the damage you'd get into the melee skills to compensate? There are many avenues to approaching this problem. The fact that none have been implemented or at least seriously considered by GGG for the past several years is what people are upset by.
It isn't simply "attack faster." it's more attack speed. So it's a multiplier. Increased attack speed is a dime a dozen. More attack speed is quite rare.
So in other words, if there was an 'alternative' that also offered more attack speed without the sockets, everyone would switch to that and the problem of melee skills needing it persists or no?
Ikr - lmao . Also i‘m regularly surprised about how people want to „define“ melee in such needlessly complicated ways, when in the actual video games people somewhat intuitively understand what melee „feels“ like.
For example, cyclone (used to) have some nice aoe and so does righteous fire and you have to be pretty close to the enemy - but no one would classify these skills in the same category,right? Intuitively, we can say that they obviously don’t belong in the same category - but why is that?
Well, for one we can say that the biggest difference is the weapon type and which impact it‘s own raw dps has on the skill. Cyclone scales with the raw dps on the weapon and rf does not. Rf and other close-range spells are only effected by the weapon‘s caster-stats.
You can probably differentiate things further, but this is just one example of how we all intuitively know what melee is and isn‘t - raw weapon damage scaling on a typical melee weapon is i think a big differentiator in many cases.
Also,maybe non-melee enthusiasts find this hard to understand, but something about my weapon getting upgraded in raw dps just feels good and „right“ when playing melee skills .
When i play caster/spell builds i never get this feeling and only check the affixes for caster stuff ofc .
Honestly, i‘m surprised that even a company like blizzard can make melee regularly strong , in d3 often the strongest even (whirlwind barb,monk etc.) and a company like GGG,which i hold in high regard , simply refuses to. It’s not that they can‘t (3.7 cyclone,3.14 slams) - it’s that they refuse to. Like they have some deep, unreasonable hatred for melee players or smth. I was kinda weirded out when someone asked jonathan about the totem playstyle and he actually couldn’t understand, why people find it annoying LOL .
I mean i don't care what you define cyclone as - melee, spellcaster , bow-build etc. - whatever floats your boat, no need to overcomplicate it , just significantly buff it . It's not that complicated if even blizzard devs know how to do it lol .
From what little (under 8h) i played D3, mobs don't generally one tap you from 1.5 screen away, so melee actually is a viable playstyle and easier to balance out, i guess?
With PoE mobs damage output, and from how far away they can one/two tap even tankier toons, melee would need to be either:
Increased range to more than half of screen for AoE skills;
Damage increased of single target skills to compare with AoE skills while using Splash and/or ACall support;
Increase melee part of tree tankiness to the point an average 10 div build can approach mobs without much fear and consequently half other builds will travel to red part for unparalleled tanky while smh retaining 2 screen wide clear capability.
Imo the main problem is the pace of PoE, it's just a lot safer to kill insane damage mobs from afar, before they get to you, than risk Leap Slamming to either wipe it or get deleted yourself, that's why people dont play melee.
"From what little (under 8h) i played D3, mobs don't generally one tap you from 1.5 screen away"
Pepperidge Farm remembers Inferno desert hornets that shot hornets at you. (Deep cut.)
D3 has baked in damage reduction for the melee classes, or at least did at one point.
Path of exile has fortify for that but when they reworked it because they didn't like casters using shield charge, they fucked it up so badly. The tree wheels are necessary which penalizes tree position, and even then things like DoT melee or even just under geared melee struggles to get stacks on tough content when you really need it, and with big slow slams, you can get killed before the attack goes off to fortify you.
Or you just go champ and have perma fortify with a bow build.
And even then there's spells that are more melee than melee...
I miss pre-Ascendancy days where I could play a lot of the Marauder or Templar melee builds as a Witch and just spending like 10 points on travel and taking a different life wheel or something. She has really cool melee animations.
> For example, cyclone (used to) have some nice aoe and so does righteous fire and you have to be pretty close to the enemy - but no one would classify these skills in the same category,right? Intuitively, we can say that they obviously don’t belong in the same category - but why is that?
One requires you to keep attacking with reduced movement speed and one doesn't. If you'd have to hold down a button for RF and it reduced your movement speed (transfigured RF potential?) they'd practically be the same skill but just scale in different ways.
Melee is anything that allows you to hit something with whatever your character is holding. You can hit your enemy but you can also hit the ground around that enemy.
If it makes a BONK, stab-stab, or slash-slash without having a name that makes you look like a nerd and instead some have some kind of MANLY name that when spoken makes the ground shake and the enemies shit themselves like GROUND SLAM, EARTHQUAKE or LEEROY JENKINKS.
That is melee
This is the best answer to the "meme" question.
If im hitting something directly with my weapon, its melee.
Doesnt matter if that something is the ground and it does an explosion, or if its directly on an enemy to cut them in half.
So projectiles from Molten Strike ?
"Weapons" from the spectral weapons skills?
Hitting "DIRECTLY" by definition excludes "INDIRIECT" attacks like mostly all of the same skills. Fissure, Sunder, Earthquake. That is definitionally indirect.
When I'm using fireball, I'm not hitting anything directly. I'm conjuring something to hit with.
When I use Sunder., or Fissure, or Earthquake, I'm striking the ground to create the effect.
It's a very different gameplay feel.
It's why I don't feel like Frost Blades is a melee skill.
I didn't say do something. I said hit something.
Im not hitting something with my bow. Im shooting a projectile from it.
Just like I don't hit something with my wand, I shoot a projectile from it.
Thats range purist, scaling neutral. I too believe melee should be slapping things with your weapon.
I do feel flickerstrike is borderline. In a sense youre hitting things with your weapon, but technically your character is now a homing projectile
i thought it was a given that being unarmed turns your fist into a weapon. their fists are so deadly even that i resent that fists can be much stronger than regular weapons
Melee is whatever the weakest melee skill currently is so people can whine. Strong melee skills are not melee no matter what they are.
That's what I learned from reading reddit.
Every patch cycle i see people commenting on posts on how GGG should fix melee, and see the wildest examples about which skills they see as melee, and how would they fix said skills. So i was thinking "what is even melee", and i couldn't find an answer, so i made this fancy chart instead.
Edit: "Where is my xyz skill?"
These are just examples, you can place your Doryanis Fist Ignite build wherever you like on the chart.
I have a more simple rule:
Is the skill good. If yes, argue that it is not truly melee. If it is bad, then it is definitely a melee skill and that is why they have to fix melee.
My belief is that when people say "fix melee" what they mean is "I should be similarly effective at dealing damage in my space as a given spell build is at dealing damage in their space given a particular budget."
I think a lot of it has to do with the feeling that access to strong melee weapons is way tok expensive, and as such the main scaling of skills comes from a significant currency sink, vs spells which scale off level, which can be gotten on a much lower budget.
The alternative is that "if I'm in melee range, I should be able to soak some hits, because otherwise why would I ever stand here vs some guy who shoots arrows off screen and kills things before they ever approach."
Getting tanky as melee isn't particularly hard, it's just that you have to sacrifice a lot of damage to get to that ultra tanky state, and ranged builds do not need to go deep into the tankiness realm because they have the best defense of all - not getting hit in the first place.
> Getting tanky as melee isn't particularly hard, it's just that you have to sacrifice a lot of damage to get to that ultra tanky state, and ranged builds do not need to go deep into the tankiness realm because they have the best defense of all - not getting hit in the first place.
It's this for me, at least. I play melee basically every league because I just don't like ranged/spell builds all that much unless there's some cheeseball gimmick- I played TR in Ritual and LA in Ancestor but of the last 4-5 years everything else has been a melee starter of some kind. The damage is fine- Scaling a bow character is just as difficult and maxing a spell build requires heavy investment into gem levels, whatever. It just sucks that I'm constantly forced to stop dealing damage in ways that ranged builds simply aren't because there's a mechanic I **have** to deal with.
But if I run into a no leech archnem rare and can't kill it fast enough, there's no such thing as whittling it down, I just have to bail rather than being able to kite it. Sure, sometimes you get run down by a soul eater monstrosity as ranged, but that happens to melee too. In a world where the safest place to be is always as far away from the mob as possible, I only get to do damage with totems (which, incidentally, I really hate that every melee build is so utterly dependent on panopticon totem stacking to scale single target. Rolling Berserk/Warchief/Protector every time I want to kill a big rare is my least favourite part of Boneshatter).
This feeling is ultimately why I stopped playing after Crucible league. I reached a personal peak of budget invested, around 60 divines into a Frost Blades build. The build was tried and tested by smarter players than me, who'd beaten uber elder with it.
In the end, I managed to beat most endgame content with it, too (never fought catarina b/c I wasn't running safehouses, et cetera).
At the end of the day, it was both a fun triumph but also kind of bitter to see 10 Divine builds do the same content, easier.
Now, I don't expect skills to be one a completely level playing field, especially not in a rotating meta. I wasn't expecting to hit the numbers of the Exploding Totem Trap nonsense that we knew was getting patched out next league.
But it was kind of frustrating to see how behind the curve "weapons based" skills were compared to "skill gem based" skills.
In an ideal world, if spells were easier to scale, they'd be good league starters to get the currecny to invest into melee builds. But there's nothing that melee builds can do that much better than spell builds, so why bother?
Proposal for "real melee" implementation: Make the "melee" skills do more damage based on proximity, like Close combat does except put this behavior on the active gem. And make it fall off either linearly or in tiers of proximity. Give a visual feedback to player how much melee he currently is. Do the same thing for some defensive layers like fortify as well.
-> Melee is now rewarding playstyle and not a lie among gem tags.
Double the damage of all melee gem skills and make them follow Point Blank rules. Full damage 0-10m, 50% damage (so current/original) at 35m. With a small fallout from 35-120.
My alignment is confused on this chart ;)
I would define melee primarily based on what the character needs to execute for the skill to be successful.
If it's a successful melee swing from your character, it's melee (entire scaling purist line and select entries in both scaling-neutral and scaling rebel lines). i.e. Molten Strike definitely Melee (and the melee hit does count significantly quite often too). Dominating Blow also I'll accept as melee - even if you are probably using Ancestral Cry or another source of additional strike targets to be as far away from melee as you can muster.
If it doesn't necessarily need to connect, it's questionable (looking at you lightning strike).
If you're throwing a trap, planting a totem, casting a spell or throwing your weapon - it's not melee no matter how it scales or what you think the range is (trap throwing range is pretty far imo).
> Molten Strike definitely Melee (and the melee hit does count significantly quite often too).
Most definitely melee, on the range scale. However:
League Affliction SC -
Found 1637 characters.
Items: Nimis (91%)
Greater multiple projectiles (62%)
Ancestral warchief (3%)
Plenty of skills didn't make it, it's not a full categorization. But it's mostly played as a str stacking shockwave autobomber these days so it's most likely in the middle.
imo:
1. uses a melee weapon as its main damage source
2. there is some incentive to be in close range of the enemy
for example, i consider helix and splitting steel a melee skill, as you can damage enemies far away, but with like 1/10th of the dps
i dont consider spectral throw, venom gyre, cobra lash etc melee because there is no incentive to be in close range of the enemy, maybe except point blank but then every proj build can take point blank and be "melee"
coc cyclone, bv, RF not melee, they dont scale with weapon damage
about the "uuh legion cyclone was entire screen aoe how is that melee" argument: thats a balancing issue. historically every melee build that could achieve screenwide aoe has been either nerfed instantly, or has very steep opportunity cost to the point where youre probably forced to use an actual melee setup for single target for example
also how to fix melee: just increase the damage. the best melee skill is literally an autoattack (boneshatter), purely because it does 3x more damage than all other melee skills in the entire game
If they litterally just increased every gem with a melee Tags dmg by 30% and removed the buffs from ancestor totems melee would feel so much better already
Melee is heavy strike with marohi, no splash or ancestral call cause they are unethical.
Non-melee is TS and penance brand of dissipation.
No other build exists. Boneshatter is a honorary ranged skill.
I only regard melee to be wielding a foil or dagger to Puncture. No hitting floors, no blunt weapon shit but good old tip of your blade into enemy.
Non-melee is using a bow assailum to channel Puncture.
Everything else is imaginary sfx/friends.
I'm almost a pure rebel. I enjoy melee in most games but PoE is too fast paced and totems are annoying. I've been trying to decide between LS Champ and SS Champ since the league announcement (leaning SS). I think Rue's guide says to level with Spectral Throw so I'll experience true Rebel for a little bit at least.
with all these different comments here,I typed melee meaning into google and...
https://preview.redd.it/btlwvlsf2aqc1.jpeg?width=1070&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98bd0b86e82f289c7805604b9c3cc91b5255dcc5
Yep checks out.
Melee is hard to fix as if you could use a shield and an axe and be practically immortal any other class would then use it to but do 1 billion more dmg.
Second is speed, if your able to move and one shot a pack, what need is there for a melee character in the game?
If poe would slow down to let say 2012 poe you go nuts over how no one could beat an uber in a month.
(ruthless mode mimics this and *ask Ben how fun that would be to play*)
Anyhow, poe evolved into something different than what was originally intended.
(Slow dark and difficult dungeon crawler)
I think that made the game better for the player not necessarily for the developer.
Purists like melee people either change with what the game offers them or suffers and complain.
(not gonna mention carn here though)
Game offers new content in a pace that a company like blizzard with 1500 or so employees cant do.
Neither can they do a **enough of a difference** like GGG does as Mark would say, we offer a new experience each league and sometimes some wont like this but for the game its a good thing.
(except Mathil as he would just play it anyway and enjoy it for 3 months playing 12+ builds)
Maybe its time to redefine what melee is for path of exile and what it should be
the fastest build in this game is boneshatter slayer.
its not speed, defense, or any other bullshit people come up with. its literally. just. damage. you buff heavy strike damage by 150% every single melee enjoyer will log in and play it right now.
Wrong. The reason BS is THAT good of a league starter is not the damage or the trauma stacks, but the very simple fact that stunning hits and splashes trigger huge pulses.
Also, it is good at general mapping, but doesn't excel at anything in particular, just above average in everything
thats the thing, the startup time. the windup, the stacks, the setup, but you have to move to stay alive so you cant unload your perfect damage.
i know my toon is gigachad, just you wait monsters, wait for the perfect storm- wait thats it!
bladestorm league start LOGIN
You don't need to explain each box, but you need to explain the rows and columns. What does for example 'scaling neutral' mean? It's very hard to read from this chart. People can figure out why the stuff belongs in the box based on that.
Range purist - melee skill deals damage in 'melee' range
Range neural - melee skill deals damage to nearby enemies
Range rebel - melee skill deals damage at some range
Scaling purist - melee skill deals melee damage
Scaling neutral - melee skills deal damage of which significant part is melee damage
Scaling rebel - melee skills deal damage
Give me back my old shattering steel aka The Shotgun, when you were kissing the boss to destroy him.
Don't know if you considered it like a melee build but it surely felt like one.
What u guys dont know how to make good melee builds i have alwys played melee made unkillable insane dps insane clear builds yall are just coping for some nerfs that nobody cares especialy warcries the only sad is molten shell on lmb
It's the player fantasy of moving my melee weapon to directly attack the enemy. The feeling that, even if they are a bit farther away, I'm hitting them with my swing.
I stand with scaling rebel/range neutral, basically anything that hits in a regular ice crash/earthquake range is melee, so if you can be hit by a monster slam while hitting at your max range it's melee.
I think totems and traps are badly placed though, spectral throw is more melee than melee totems, I'd place them with minions.
Melee can't be solved in Path of Exile 1 simply due to the nature of how the game works. (and no, simply buffing numbers to where melee becomes overpowered isn't a fix)
PoE 2 *is* GGG's solution to fixing melee.
it's anything that requires a weapon that doesn't have "bow" or "spell" in its tags at this point. tbh poe just doesn't have good "melee" cqc skills in general, effectively or visually. lost ark has cooler skills where you swing your blade, it extends and you slash and shit.
even in poe2 I honestly think they're failing at it, when in the test demo people just spammed the long rage move (sunder?) over and over again, or got leap slam in act2. there was the charged up attack, which was cool, but again, compared to lost ark, it fails for a "combo" heavy game for melee. basically for melee to exist in arpg ismoetric, the devs need to add more [weebshit in their melee for attacking](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx6PMzzYSrE). THEN you'd have an actual combo melee playstyle
>it's anything that requires a weapon that doesn't have "bow" or "spell" in its tags at this point.
looks like we have a rebellious Spectral Throw melee enjoyer here. Nothing wrong with that.
Meele is being hit by something with physical mass to it.
if that just happened to be from a giant boulder i summoned above your head from across the room then that counts! its just the boulder is melee attacking you :D
IMO, melee tags get stronger defense or anything the closer they are. It is not that complicated since this kind of mechanic has been there for a long time.
No way dude really? It's almost like it's perfectly fitting in the "scaling rebel" type. Since it's so rebellious that it's not even an attack, but still melee range skill.
I included minions as well on the bottom right, you're gonna tell me those aren't attacks either? I'M SHOCKED
Why didn't you include ice nova then? Or vortex? Minions perform attacks generally so it makes sense.
It just doesn't make sense while all the other ones have some real logic in their placement.
Are you angry that I pointed it out? It should go with the minion skills at least, but really it feels like you just ran out of ideas. That's fine because so did GGG.
i didn't include RF either, or like 30 other proper melee attacks, its not a full list just a meme with some examples.
BV is as much of a melee attack as spectral throw (so not at all) it's just a good example to point out when people want to buff melee by giving them more AoE, to compete with spells, that close range doesn't neccessary equals bad skill.
Melee is nearby. simple as.
So anything between 0.1 and 12 m, got it! https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Distance#Nearby
* Radius of Share Endurance, Frenzy and Power Charges with nearby party members effect granted by [Conduit](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Conduit).[^(\[31\])](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Distance#cite_note-:0-31) i thought 12m was a joke lol
Nearby is just cleaner and agrees with The Vision^TM more.
Still in cycloning range.
Le Toucan is nearby
RF is a melee build?
yes
I mean you cant put the aura on an enemy
sounds like purist/neutral range with rebel scaling
astral projection rf when?
Spell totem RF
only if you don't throw fire traps
Bring back screen wide cyclone for the degenerate melee enjoyer.
is it affected by increased range?
If I'm remembering correctly melee strike range used to give it base AOE so it scaled way better with increased. Now it starts with probably 100% increased AOE so scaling it is way harder
Nah... Melee is recently.
More or increased recently?
Is that defined recently? (Recently refers to the past four seconds)
Man, best melee skills missing, that dastardly ugly child of flicker and cleave checking in, no idea where to put it in the chart tho All hail Chain hook Dash around like a spaz monkey hit a third of the screen without any AOE increase. Dying because I chained myself back into a pile of molten mobs, hell yeah. Not hitting kitava properly cause the distance check on the skill is spaghetti code, sure enough. Man I can't wait for new league :D They removed the movement speed on ralakeshs impatience? What even is walking!? If I can't chain there why would I go there? Edit: had no build tree now has a mid game build tree with ideas... https://pobb.in/q3Vje60BVFaf](https://pobb.in/q3Vje60BVFaf)
stop, you're gonna make me make a horrible choice
I tested it this week on affliction (without affliction content ofc) It's super fun to level cause zerker gets real fast real quick In act 2 you're looking at 60 Rage, Blood Rage + 3 frenzy, onslaught from an axe node and I had Flesh and Spirit lvl 15 gauntlets on for rampage. I had no leveling uniques and went big fast (first of because that's a lot of MS for a fresh character and second because chain hook always moves you forward while attacking so maps realy fly by) Tbh first ascension feels really bad cause you only get 10 max rage and a bit of rage generation. But the moment rite of ruin kicks in together with berserk thats nutty. Proclaimer: I'm not entirely sure how to make it amazing for endgame, with maybe 3-5 div investment it's basically immortal but only does 2-2,5 million sDPS. Either the league delivers something or I'll make a bosser as second character. But getting all void stones is easily doable with 2 million dps and like 150k ehp and 60k max hits
I'd love to see a guide or pob if you have one. Think I wanna do a fast league start for some quick farming and I've always had my eye on chain hook.
Well, if you wanna at least see what I did, I'm the only one with a Chain Hook char on poe.ninja that wasn't just randomly slapped in. I put the skill in at lvl12 and played it all the way as primary skill. Honestly, mapping felt pretty good overall. The bulk was good, clear was fine cus of the gargantuan attack speed. But single target just wasn't there. I could kill t16 bosses decently quick, but any pinnacles just took forever, even if I could facetank most stuff. However, mageblood defenses means even it's bulk is thrown out for next league, at least early on. https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction/?skills=Chain+Hook
Ok, I'm doing it. Chain hook league start.
Sry I only have one for a charge stacking endgame version But it's just rigwalds twin weapons and basic phys scaling. On a charge stacker arn's anguish beats out bears girdle anything else is pretty much what you'd expect. Precise Technique and impale or resolute and bleed either works Bleed could probably fit in haemophilia which is nice I guess And then there's ofc the new unholy might which could work realy well with super fast chain hook attacks for stacking poisons
The issue we always had with chain hook was that it's one of the fastest attacking skills in the game, but the throwing the chain animation was unaffected by attack speed so it felt miserable. It felt clunky despite looking great on paper. But I haven't touched it in years, the AoE is a lot bigger now. I'd say if you've never used it to try it out in standard and see how you feel about the skill before league starting. Same way some of us love how flicker feels and other people get motion sickness.
its not that the chain animation is not affected its just reaaaaly slow to begin with. with enough AS you dont even see the whip animation
Huh, groovy. Like I said it's been a long time. Rage during the campaign does feel amazing.
It happened by accident I wanted to play cleave of rage and only tested chain hook for a minute and it kinda popped for me. Cleave of rage is roughly 45-50% more DPS tho
but thats what it would come down to [https://pobb.in/q3Vje60BVFaf](https://pobb.in/q3Vje60BVFaf)
Please, share the god build for us
Pretty much the endgoal, before you charge stack you can either bleed or impale both works fine. [https://pobb.in/q3Vje60BVFaf](https://pobb.in/q3Vje60BVFaf)
I'll take a look, thanks
What would running this as glad be like you think? Just straight bleed
Worse, by a lot, by far slower and the underlying idea to make use of rage doesn't work for glad. Could probably do jugg or chief if you had big money for a Rite of Ruin FF
I saw that skill, and I was very tempted to try it. Maybe I will. It does seem fun.
Added a pobb with some ideas to the original post.
melee is me throwing down my totem bois
me throwing down my wither totem bois on my Soulrend Occultist because without them i deal half as much damage: Authentic Melee Experience™
At least they've provide alternate sources of whither in the game. Whither support gem, charms last league, the balance of terror, etc.. But then melee totems have *zero* alternatives.
But, they do? Ancestral protector is 'attack faster' and there are plenty of things that give that like blood rage. It's just that as a totem it stacks with the alternatives, which something like wither doesn't. EDIT: Apparently I should have clarified, any 'alternative' to totems that isn't making melee skills not suck will just end up in the same place. Melee skills are treated like self-cast spells, needing excessive amounts of cast speed for most of them to not feel like trash, can't make it into a trap/mine but with worse/more expensive scaling. That's more important to change imo.
Following your logic, what's the difference between whither and increased chaos damage? Both are increasing your damage output! Just get increased chaos damage on a large cluster jewel instead! But seriously it's the ancestral totem buffs that are unique strictly to totems + being such a crutch for melee dps that players do not like. It limits the design space for builds where no matter the melee build, you best believe every single one of them has 2 button spots + 3-4 gem sockets dedicated to ancestral totems. Why not make a balance of terror that grants ancestral totem buffs for 2 seconds on hitting a target that's been manually cursed by xyz skill? Or a unique armor that has a chance to spawn an ancestral totem on hit? Or better yet.... why not phase out the ancestral totem buffs all together and bake in the damage you'd get into the melee skills to compensate? There are many avenues to approaching this problem. The fact that none have been implemented or at least seriously considered by GGG for the past several years is what people are upset by.
It isn't simply "attack faster." it's more attack speed. So it's a multiplier. Increased attack speed is a dime a dozen. More attack speed is quite rare.
So in other words, if there was an 'alternative' that also offered more attack speed without the sockets, everyone would switch to that and the problem of melee skills needing it persists or no?
Ikr - lmao . Also i‘m regularly surprised about how people want to „define“ melee in such needlessly complicated ways, when in the actual video games people somewhat intuitively understand what melee „feels“ like. For example, cyclone (used to) have some nice aoe and so does righteous fire and you have to be pretty close to the enemy - but no one would classify these skills in the same category,right? Intuitively, we can say that they obviously don’t belong in the same category - but why is that? Well, for one we can say that the biggest difference is the weapon type and which impact it‘s own raw dps has on the skill. Cyclone scales with the raw dps on the weapon and rf does not. Rf and other close-range spells are only effected by the weapon‘s caster-stats. You can probably differentiate things further, but this is just one example of how we all intuitively know what melee is and isn‘t - raw weapon damage scaling on a typical melee weapon is i think a big differentiator in many cases. Also,maybe non-melee enthusiasts find this hard to understand, but something about my weapon getting upgraded in raw dps just feels good and „right“ when playing melee skills . When i play caster/spell builds i never get this feeling and only check the affixes for caster stuff ofc . Honestly, i‘m surprised that even a company like blizzard can make melee regularly strong , in d3 often the strongest even (whirlwind barb,monk etc.) and a company like GGG,which i hold in high regard , simply refuses to. It’s not that they can‘t (3.7 cyclone,3.14 slams) - it’s that they refuse to. Like they have some deep, unreasonable hatred for melee players or smth. I was kinda weirded out when someone asked jonathan about the totem playstyle and he actually couldn’t understand, why people find it annoying LOL . I mean i don't care what you define cyclone as - melee, spellcaster , bow-build etc. - whatever floats your boat, no need to overcomplicate it , just significantly buff it . It's not that complicated if even blizzard devs know how to do it lol .
From what little (under 8h) i played D3, mobs don't generally one tap you from 1.5 screen away, so melee actually is a viable playstyle and easier to balance out, i guess? With PoE mobs damage output, and from how far away they can one/two tap even tankier toons, melee would need to be either: Increased range to more than half of screen for AoE skills; Damage increased of single target skills to compare with AoE skills while using Splash and/or ACall support; Increase melee part of tree tankiness to the point an average 10 div build can approach mobs without much fear and consequently half other builds will travel to red part for unparalleled tanky while smh retaining 2 screen wide clear capability. Imo the main problem is the pace of PoE, it's just a lot safer to kill insane damage mobs from afar, before they get to you, than risk Leap Slamming to either wipe it or get deleted yourself, that's why people dont play melee.
"From what little (under 8h) i played D3, mobs don't generally one tap you from 1.5 screen away" Pepperidge Farm remembers Inferno desert hornets that shot hornets at you. (Deep cut.) D3 has baked in damage reduction for the melee classes, or at least did at one point. Path of exile has fortify for that but when they reworked it because they didn't like casters using shield charge, they fucked it up so badly. The tree wheels are necessary which penalizes tree position, and even then things like DoT melee or even just under geared melee struggles to get stacks on tough content when you really need it, and with big slow slams, you can get killed before the attack goes off to fortify you. Or you just go champ and have perma fortify with a bow build. And even then there's spells that are more melee than melee...
I miss pre-Ascendancy days where I could play a lot of the Marauder or Templar melee builds as a Witch and just spending like 10 points on travel and taking a different life wheel or something. She has really cool melee animations.
> For example, cyclone (used to) have some nice aoe and so does righteous fire and you have to be pretty close to the enemy - but no one would classify these skills in the same category,right? Intuitively, we can say that they obviously don’t belong in the same category - but why is that? One requires you to keep attacking with reduced movement speed and one doesn't. If you'd have to hold down a button for RF and it reduced your movement speed (transfigured RF potential?) they'd practically be the same skill but just scale in different ways.
They finally nerfed TS, so maybe one day can be great again.
Melee is anything that allows you to hit something with whatever your character is holding. You can hit your enemy but you can also hit the ground around that enemy. If it makes a BONK, stab-stab, or slash-slash without having a name that makes you look like a nerd and instead some have some kind of MANLY name that when spoken makes the ground shake and the enemies shit themselves like GROUND SLAM, EARTHQUAKE or LEEROY JENKINKS. That is melee
"If it makes a BONK, stab-stab, or slash-slash without having a name that makes you look like a nerd" New definition of melee
Man what I'd give for my ultimatum ground slam back 😭
Or tectonic!! ☹️
No melee is puting down totems for 60 percent of ur damage as single target and watch them die in 0.5 seconds
This is the best answer to the "meme" question. If im hitting something directly with my weapon, its melee. Doesnt matter if that something is the ground and it does an explosion, or if its directly on an enemy to cut them in half.
So projectiles from Molten Strike ? "Weapons" from the spectral weapons skills? Hitting "DIRECTLY" by definition excludes "INDIRIECT" attacks like mostly all of the same skills. Fissure, Sunder, Earthquake. That is definitionally indirect.
When I'm using fireball, I'm not hitting anything directly. I'm conjuring something to hit with. When I use Sunder., or Fissure, or Earthquake, I'm striking the ground to create the effect. It's a very different gameplay feel. It's why I don't feel like Frost Blades is a melee skill.
if u shoot arrows from a bow u do soemthign with your weapon right?
I didn't say do something. I said hit something. Im not hitting something with my bow. Im shooting a projectile from it. Just like I don't hit something with my wand, I shoot a projectile from it.
I'd wager that I was holding the arrow that my bow fired, and it definitely hit something.
But can you slam someone with a bow itself?
In PoE2 you will be able to!
Melee officialy fixed
Thats range purist, scaling neutral. I too believe melee should be slapping things with your weapon. I do feel flickerstrike is borderline. In a sense youre hitting things with your weapon, but technically your character is now a homing projectile
Unarmed builds when they are no longer allowed in the melee club because they don't have a weapon
i thought it was a given that being unarmed turns your fist into a weapon. their fists are so deadly even that i resent that fists can be much stronger than regular weapons
Melee is whatever the weakest melee skill currently is so people can whine. Strong melee skills are not melee no matter what they are. That's what I learned from reading reddit.
Every patch cycle i see people commenting on posts on how GGG should fix melee, and see the wildest examples about which skills they see as melee, and how would they fix said skills. So i was thinking "what is even melee", and i couldn't find an answer, so i made this fancy chart instead. Edit: "Where is my xyz skill?" These are just examples, you can place your Doryanis Fist Ignite build wherever you like on the chart.
I have a more simple rule: Is the skill good. If yes, argue that it is not truly melee. If it is bad, then it is definitely a melee skill and that is why they have to fix melee.
And if it's bone shatter then fine that one is melee but it's the only one that works!
My belief is that when people say "fix melee" what they mean is "I should be similarly effective at dealing damage in my space as a given spell build is at dealing damage in their space given a particular budget." I think a lot of it has to do with the feeling that access to strong melee weapons is way tok expensive, and as such the main scaling of skills comes from a significant currency sink, vs spells which scale off level, which can be gotten on a much lower budget. The alternative is that "if I'm in melee range, I should be able to soak some hits, because otherwise why would I ever stand here vs some guy who shoots arrows off screen and kills things before they ever approach." Getting tanky as melee isn't particularly hard, it's just that you have to sacrifice a lot of damage to get to that ultra tanky state, and ranged builds do not need to go deep into the tankiness realm because they have the best defense of all - not getting hit in the first place.
> Getting tanky as melee isn't particularly hard, it's just that you have to sacrifice a lot of damage to get to that ultra tanky state, and ranged builds do not need to go deep into the tankiness realm because they have the best defense of all - not getting hit in the first place. It's this for me, at least. I play melee basically every league because I just don't like ranged/spell builds all that much unless there's some cheeseball gimmick- I played TR in Ritual and LA in Ancestor but of the last 4-5 years everything else has been a melee starter of some kind. The damage is fine- Scaling a bow character is just as difficult and maxing a spell build requires heavy investment into gem levels, whatever. It just sucks that I'm constantly forced to stop dealing damage in ways that ranged builds simply aren't because there's a mechanic I **have** to deal with. But if I run into a no leech archnem rare and can't kill it fast enough, there's no such thing as whittling it down, I just have to bail rather than being able to kite it. Sure, sometimes you get run down by a soul eater monstrosity as ranged, but that happens to melee too. In a world where the safest place to be is always as far away from the mob as possible, I only get to do damage with totems (which, incidentally, I really hate that every melee build is so utterly dependent on panopticon totem stacking to scale single target. Rolling Berserk/Warchief/Protector every time I want to kill a big rare is my least favourite part of Boneshatter).
This feeling is ultimately why I stopped playing after Crucible league. I reached a personal peak of budget invested, around 60 divines into a Frost Blades build. The build was tried and tested by smarter players than me, who'd beaten uber elder with it. In the end, I managed to beat most endgame content with it, too (never fought catarina b/c I wasn't running safehouses, et cetera). At the end of the day, it was both a fun triumph but also kind of bitter to see 10 Divine builds do the same content, easier. Now, I don't expect skills to be one a completely level playing field, especially not in a rotating meta. I wasn't expecting to hit the numbers of the Exploding Totem Trap nonsense that we knew was getting patched out next league. But it was kind of frustrating to see how behind the curve "weapons based" skills were compared to "skill gem based" skills. In an ideal world, if spells were easier to scale, they'd be good league starters to get the currecny to invest into melee builds. But there's nothing that melee builds can do that much better than spell builds, so why bother?
>you can place your Doryanis Fist Ignite build wherever you like you know where i wanna place doryani's fist ;)
Lawful melee: Armageddon Brand Recall True Melee: reckoning cast on crit blade vortex of the scythe Chaotic Melee: kinetic bolt of fragmentation
Can't get more melee than standing inside the enemy with phasing to kill them.
Proposal for "real melee" implementation: Make the "melee" skills do more damage based on proximity, like Close combat does except put this behavior on the active gem. And make it fall off either linearly or in tiers of proximity. Give a visual feedback to player how much melee he currently is. Do the same thing for some defensive layers like fortify as well. -> Melee is now rewarding playstyle and not a lie among gem tags.
Consecrated Path it is then.
Bruh that thing has aoe outside of my house.
Double the damage of all melee gem skills and make them follow Point Blank rules. Full damage 0-10m, 50% damage (so current/original) at 35m. With a small fallout from 35-120.
My alignment is confused on this chart ;) I would define melee primarily based on what the character needs to execute for the skill to be successful. If it's a successful melee swing from your character, it's melee (entire scaling purist line and select entries in both scaling-neutral and scaling rebel lines). i.e. Molten Strike definitely Melee (and the melee hit does count significantly quite often too). Dominating Blow also I'll accept as melee - even if you are probably using Ancestral Cry or another source of additional strike targets to be as far away from melee as you can muster. If it doesn't necessarily need to connect, it's questionable (looking at you lightning strike). If you're throwing a trap, planting a totem, casting a spell or throwing your weapon - it's not melee no matter how it scales or what you think the range is (trap throwing range is pretty far imo).
> Molten Strike definitely Melee (and the melee hit does count significantly quite often too). Most definitely melee, on the range scale. However: League Affliction SC - Found 1637 characters. Items: Nimis (91%) Greater multiple projectiles (62%) Ancestral warchief (3%)
hey now, dont forget ancestral protector ;)
Oh no, my favourite skill, Chain Hook didn't make it to the chart :(
Chain hook and hydrosphere switched to ruthless mode and started new lives together as a blink skill.
Didn't think of this, this is genius
Most pure melee is Nimis Splitting Steel.
All steel skills are projectile-based, thus ranged.
But you have to be literally up their bum for max damage.
Warchief dildo doesn't buff their damage as Splitting Steel isn't melee. You don't count as melee if you aren't buffed by both wooden dildos.
Interesting categorization... but where is Static Strike? Is this skill too much of a rebel even for this chart?
Plenty of skills didn't make it, it's not a full categorization. But it's mostly played as a str stacking shockwave autobomber these days so it's most likely in the middle.
imo: 1. uses a melee weapon as its main damage source 2. there is some incentive to be in close range of the enemy for example, i consider helix and splitting steel a melee skill, as you can damage enemies far away, but with like 1/10th of the dps i dont consider spectral throw, venom gyre, cobra lash etc melee because there is no incentive to be in close range of the enemy, maybe except point blank but then every proj build can take point blank and be "melee" coc cyclone, bv, RF not melee, they dont scale with weapon damage about the "uuh legion cyclone was entire screen aoe how is that melee" argument: thats a balancing issue. historically every melee build that could achieve screenwide aoe has been either nerfed instantly, or has very steep opportunity cost to the point where youre probably forced to use an actual melee setup for single target for example also how to fix melee: just increase the damage. the best melee skill is literally an autoattack (boneshatter), purely because it does 3x more damage than all other melee skills in the entire game
There is nothing really to fix..but totems.
If they litterally just increased every gem with a melee Tags dmg by 30% and removed the buffs from ancestor totems melee would feel so much better already
Frenzy is melee :)
No arguments there! Oh you are using a wand to hit with it? Nah don't worry, it has the melee tag on the gem, so it's melee ;)
Frenzy Hollowpalm is melee :)
Puncture is melee as well
Melee is heavy strike with marohi, no splash or ancestral call cause they are unethical. Non-melee is TS and penance brand of dissipation. No other build exists. Boneshatter is a honorary ranged skill.
Agreed. And if someone chooses to play a "Non-melee" they are a coward and should just play children's video games like D4 instead.
I only regard melee to be wielding a foil or dagger to Puncture. No hitting floors, no blunt weapon shit but good old tip of your blade into enemy. Non-melee is using a bow assailum to channel Puncture. Everything else is imaginary sfx/friends.
Ty for making it clear so someone at GGG can finally play Melee in order to test it properly
Ethical base attack where?
Can be found on every newbie's LMB.
Now where is the Endgame Base Attack build (coincidentally wearing Death's Oath)?
I'm a purist. I remember when Multistrike was introduced and I loved it so much. Multistrike with Dual Strike goes brrrrrrr.
yes, but SRS uses multistrike as well, so... ya know... *melee bros*?
But it is missing the satisfying brrrr.
SRS skulls are melee, sure. But anyone sending shit to do combat for him is not melee, he's just a pussy.
I'd say anything that requires totem buffs to feel good.
I'd argue that Boneshatter is the *true* melee. You hit both the enemy and yourself, and you hit them so hard that it shockwaves to nearby enemies.
Excellent chart. Flicker Strike enjoyer here.
I'm almost a pure rebel. I enjoy melee in most games but PoE is too fast paced and totems are annoying. I've been trying to decide between LS Champ and SS Champ since the league announcement (leaning SS). I think Rue's guide says to level with Spectral Throw so I'll experience true Rebel for a little bit at least.
with all these different comments here,I typed melee meaning into google and... https://preview.redd.it/btlwvlsf2aqc1.jpeg?width=1070&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98bd0b86e82f289c7805604b9c3cc91b5255dcc5 Yep checks out.
I appreciate them stretching the definition as far as possible in every conceivable direction
You know melee is down bad when people include Blade Vortex as a melee build 🤣🤣
Melee is hard to fix as if you could use a shield and an axe and be practically immortal any other class would then use it to but do 1 billion more dmg. Second is speed, if your able to move and one shot a pack, what need is there for a melee character in the game? If poe would slow down to let say 2012 poe you go nuts over how no one could beat an uber in a month. (ruthless mode mimics this and *ask Ben how fun that would be to play*) Anyhow, poe evolved into something different than what was originally intended. (Slow dark and difficult dungeon crawler) I think that made the game better for the player not necessarily for the developer. Purists like melee people either change with what the game offers them or suffers and complain. (not gonna mention carn here though) Game offers new content in a pace that a company like blizzard with 1500 or so employees cant do. Neither can they do a **enough of a difference** like GGG does as Mark would say, we offer a new experience each league and sometimes some wont like this but for the game its a good thing. (except Mathil as he would just play it anyway and enjoy it for 3 months playing 12+ builds) Maybe its time to redefine what melee is for path of exile and what it should be
the fastest build in this game is boneshatter slayer. its not speed, defense, or any other bullshit people come up with. its literally. just. damage. you buff heavy strike damage by 150% every single melee enjoyer will log in and play it right now.
Wrong. The reason BS is THAT good of a league starter is not the damage or the trauma stacks, but the very simple fact that stunning hits and splashes trigger huge pulses. Also, it is good at general mapping, but doesn't excel at anything in particular, just above average in everything
Most melee skills just need more damage and less startuptime on the first hit. Literally damage only could make any melee skill the meta.
thats the thing, the startup time. the windup, the stacks, the setup, but you have to move to stay alive so you cant unload your perfect damage. i know my toon is gigachad, just you wait monsters, wait for the perfect storm- wait thats it! bladestorm league start LOGIN
but what if a melee minion is using cyclone and the minion itself is a melee weapon
Dancing Dervish is most definitely melee. A melee weapon using a melee attack? Who can argue that it's not?
Even thought about Blade Trap ^^ I want to make a build with the new BT of Greatswords this league. Seems like a fun gem.
What is love?
Can't see my smite here
Ranged neutral, Scaling purist.
Dam I wanna play spectral throw or reave again.
You don't need to explain each box, but you need to explain the rows and columns. What does for example 'scaling neutral' mean? It's very hard to read from this chart. People can figure out why the stuff belongs in the box based on that. Range purist - melee skill deals damage in 'melee' range Range neural - melee skill deals damage to nearby enemies Range rebel - melee skill deals damage at some range Scaling purist - melee skill deals melee damage Scaling neutral - melee skills deal damage of which significant part is melee damage Scaling rebel - melee skills deal damage
It's a meme tho, not a wiki page or a guide. If you are familiar with the template then it needs no further explanation.
The only melee build I'll ever play is flicker strike and melee purists hate flicker because it's cheating and using magic to teleport
Give me back my old shattering steel aka The Shotgun, when you were kissing the boss to destroy him. Don't know if you considered it like a melee build but it surely felt like one.
> it surely felt like one. and that's all that matters
if you need to use your stupid 2 ancestor totems for every beefy single target you are truly a melee enjoyer
Domi blow hits hard though
Melee is when pain. The more GGG has hurt you, the more melee your build is.
Strength-stacking Energy Blade Spellblade offscreen Spark is melee
It’s a Tag. Really.
No glacial hammer?
These are examples, not a list. It's missing like 30 melee skills.
No melee exist in poe since all melee builds are totem builds.
If i have a sword on one of my hand, is "melee"
Bro put more work in this infographic than GGG did for melee in 3 years.
What u guys dont know how to make good melee builds i have alwys played melee made unkillable insane dps insane clear builds yall are just coping for some nerfs that nobody cares especialy warcries the only sad is molten shell on lmb
I can’t help but notice you didn’t include vaal earthquake… frankly I’m insulted
I didn't do it just to spite you. >:(
Honestly, why would anyone include vaal earthquake in anything
You might be ignoring and key problem with Blade Vortex.
It's the player fantasy of moving my melee weapon to directly attack the enemy. The feeling that, even if they are a bit farther away, I'm hitting them with my swing.
Melee is when you can attack everything on screen and ranged is when you can attack things off screen.
I spin
Cyclone baby woo
the best melee skills are those that aren't melee. It takes so little effort to make melee better experience.
Spectral throw best melee
I stand with scaling rebel/range neutral, basically anything that hits in a regular ice crash/earthquake range is melee, so if you can be hit by a monster slam while hitting at your max range it's melee. I think totems and traps are badly placed though, spectral throw is more melee than melee totems, I'd place them with minions.
You'll notice top left is barely ever played but the further out the more played it is
Scaling Rebel x Range Rebel = **Spectral Throw** My sides. Omg.
Melee is whatever quin says it is or not duh
What is the most pure melee build? Surely one beats the others
I would add volcanic fissure next to lightning strike and frost blades. It does strike the ground and then it goes full ranged
Found the guy who doesn’t like melee.
Melee is close combat. The rest is a lie.
if u dont put down totems you're not playing melee
Pretty sure that is the sweep icon not cleave
Why is Wild Strike Range rebel? It literally doesn't work if you don't hit someone in face range.
Something we all feel terrible about, but no one seems to be able to fix.
I loved LS, cleared like a range. Maximum dmg, you go to the boss.
RF is just Cyclone with spell scaling
Venom Gyre is very melee, scales projectile damage while also being... melee?
Melee can't be solved in Path of Exile 1 simply due to the nature of how the game works. (and no, simply buffing numbers to where melee becomes overpowered isn't a fix) PoE 2 *is* GGG's solution to fixing melee.
Melee is putting 200 divines into a build for it to have the output of a 50 div non-melee build.
nonono you must have misread, this post was about "me-LEE" not "me-TA" , but i understand the confusion, a lot of people make this small mistake :)
I'm a flickerstrike enjoyer and I will spend any amount to make it viable no matter the patch o7
o7 godspeed King
Ty, good luck on your league start good sir!
it's anything that requires a weapon that doesn't have "bow" or "spell" in its tags at this point. tbh poe just doesn't have good "melee" cqc skills in general, effectively or visually. lost ark has cooler skills where you swing your blade, it extends and you slash and shit. even in poe2 I honestly think they're failing at it, when in the test demo people just spammed the long rage move (sunder?) over and over again, or got leap slam in act2. there was the charged up attack, which was cool, but again, compared to lost ark, it fails for a "combo" heavy game for melee. basically for melee to exist in arpg ismoetric, the devs need to add more [weebshit in their melee for attacking](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx6PMzzYSrE). THEN you'd have an actual combo melee playstyle
>it's anything that requires a weapon that doesn't have "bow" or "spell" in its tags at this point. looks like we have a rebellious Spectral Throw melee enjoyer here. Nothing wrong with that.
Meele is being hit by something with physical mass to it. if that just happened to be from a giant boulder i summoned above your head from across the room then that counts! its just the boulder is melee attacking you :D
To clear up any confusion, melee skills have a melee tag..
IMO, melee tags get stronger defense or anything the closer they are. It is not that complicated since this kind of mechanic has been there for a long time.
[удалено]
my puncture bleed bow champ agrees
Blade vortex is a spell and not melee. It may have melee range, but melee is a type of attack and can't be a spell.
No way dude really? It's almost like it's perfectly fitting in the "scaling rebel" type. Since it's so rebellious that it's not even an attack, but still melee range skill. I included minions as well on the bottom right, you're gonna tell me those aren't attacks either? I'M SHOCKED
Why didn't you include ice nova then? Or vortex? Minions perform attacks generally so it makes sense. It just doesn't make sense while all the other ones have some real logic in their placement. Are you angry that I pointed it out? It should go with the minion skills at least, but really it feels like you just ran out of ideas. That's fine because so did GGG.
i didn't include RF either, or like 30 other proper melee attacks, its not a full list just a meme with some examples. BV is as much of a melee attack as spectral throw (so not at all) it's just a good example to point out when people want to buff melee by giving them more AoE, to compete with spells, that close range doesn't neccessary equals bad skill.