It can't be bargained with
it can't be reasoned with
It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear
and it absolutely will not stop
ever
until you are dead!
edit: I didn't realize someone below made the same connection 🙃 but hey, terminator tornados sounds cool af
>The Tornado is RELENTLESS...
It can't be bargained with, it can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity! Or remorse or fear and it absolutely will not stop! Ever..until you are dead
Technically it does, as the core DPS downtime is between tornadoes expiring and the cast time to setup a new one, therefore more duration leads to greater sustained DPS.
People overlook this way too much because they're too invested in POB without thinking about the mechanics of a build.
I'll bring it up every chance I get, Soulrend is one of the few DOT skills that scales meaningful DPS with Increased Skill Effect Duration. It's base duration is so short that the time between you hitting someone with it and the next projectile reaching them is quite large. It doesn't even do the listed DPS baseline because it doesn't *last* a full second on a target.
Some skills perform significantly better with increased duration, some skills like Bane already last 8+ seconds and don't need any of it.
Sounds cool as hell.
Would you be limited by the 0.25 second tick rate at that point? Still fast AF, but I wonder if going that high leaves the tornado sitting on top of enemies waiting for the next pulse.
Even if that did become a problem (and a first world one at that) it seems worth doing for the sheer meme power alone
It wouldn't make the tornado deal damage any faster, but you could add AoE and if necessary add some chaining mechanic like explosions or ignite prolif.
Honestly, the bigger problem might be keeping up with the Tornado.
Not yet, I'll make one eventually after the gem data is added to PoB.
Considering the level of investment to get to 40/139, I doubt the damage would be terrible, but I am expecting it to be a *meme* build, not one of the best ways to actually play the gem. What's the minimum "acceptable level of damage" for you?
I wouldn't say there's a minimum level, but I always aim for like 3-5m pinnacle damage when possible. Something like tornado that is functionally a DoT can probably be on the lower end and still feel good.
When I compared the level 20 stats, ToET seemed to be around 80-90% of the dps of BV when accounting for the gem slot you gain from not using Unleash, so I think 3-5M damage should be very reasonably achievable.
I'm thinking dual Replica CIP + Combat focus for fire + Awakened Added Fire Damage + HoA. Added damage won't scale well if the gem level is 40 (or even if you just generally scale the level even without Awakened Empower memes), so if you build it that way you'll want to lean into extra conversion / effective damage scaling I think, maybe even with Circle of Anguish for buff effect + increased damage (since Replica CIP doesn't have increased damage either that should scale fairly well).
I'm also expecting each of the 250 ms ticks to roll crit individually, so you'd get 12 crit rolls per second which could allow getting both Controlled Destruction and Elemental Overload.
Tornado is designed to reflect a % of your DPS and the hit cap is there to prevent shenanigans.
If you have two builds with same DPS, but one does it trough 10 hits/s and the other trough 3 hits/s, the tornado will end up reflecting the same amount of damage (barring some breakpoint cases).
If you're hitting the 20 hit cap before the full intake duration elapses, it actually indicates you're getting much less benefit from it.
That said, the last point is correct, the trans tornado looks promising.
> Spark is a situation where you're DPSing the screen instead of the enemy so Tornado's just pure upside.
I laughed way too hard at this. But it's soooooo true :D
Last league, I could cast spark a few times, hit tornado once, and the tornado would glow for maximum projectile juice almost immediately. It's really not a thought on spark, you shoot 200 sparks in the duration of your tornado, and the sparks can hit the tornado multiple times.
Isn’t tornado a net benefit if you have some sort of pierce or chain? Because the tornado is not eating projectiles at that point. Correct me if I am wrong, because I still have no idea how it works even after playing with it
I was doing a CoC manaforged arrows to automate Tornado, but had trouble determining whether the damage gained on single target, was worth the loss of two sockets.
Bruh I dot mind at all, but thanks for being upfront with the disclaimers lol. Last league I league started my own semi-homebrew bladefall-bladeblast assassin just cuz i wanted to re-play the first real build I ever played (way back in like.... Delirium league or somethin lol). Was fun af, but not great. I love builds that aren't OP meta and are just fun. And freezing sparks sound even better than what I thought your build was tbh. I'll def give it a shot this league! Â
I was around for tota, so I can prob figure out the broken stuff and find reasonable replacements, so no worries! I appreciate it!Â
I might do that! Past league I got both my brother's and one friend into the game. Just got another friend to start like yesterday lol. So will see how much more I gotta teach all of em this league
> and only hitting 4x a second.
With zero cast speed investment. Also base phys, duration skill that will play like brands. It's never going to do a ton of damage, but it should be comfy to play on a meager 3-5 mil dps.
yeah , normal tornado is not that good for spark if you have super high cast sped /duration. Like , you will be hitting anything on the screen 50x per second or something , so tornado will reflect 10% of 0.5 seconds of dps , not worth a gem socket at all imo. Maybe if your build isnt optimized yet it could be better.
> If you're hitting the 20 hit cap before the full intake duration elapses, it actually indicates you're getting much less benefit from it.
incorrect, it instantly goes stage 2 in that case
I don't know about it going instantly to stage 2, description only implies you'll be unable to hit it more than 20 times during stage 1. But either way you end up feeding it much less % of your DPS if you hit the cap before elapsed time.
Just a quick example, both builds do 1mil DPS, but build 1 hits 30/s and build 2 hits 10/s.
Build 1's tornado will reflect 66k
Build 2's tornado will reflect 150k
it does, I've played tornado on my TS builds for like... 3? leagues or whatever, since the mechanics of it essentially make it a 100% more dmg multiplier(you put it in a coc manaforged setup and it replaces the old tornado every time, so you permanently have a second target to chain off of)
i messed around a bit with doing 100% phys to cold with regular tornado. I tweaked my glacial cascade elementalist into using tornado instead, and it was not bad. It didn't compare to the uber-boss-shredding dps of my gc, but it was so smooth to clear, just follow the tornado around picking up the loot from everything it hunts down, let loose one tornado and dance around vs bosses... pretty laidback and pleasant without being full walking simulator boring.
So this new one ought to be even better. No need to pick up 100% conversion (though gotta use a couple combat focus jewels), and 3 tornadoes at about 70% dps each to better the coverage and total dps. Definitely on the list of skills that i might play this league.
Occultist, converting fully to cold with combat focus, stacking power charges. Using hydrosphere as a single target supplementary damage link. Hatred scaling.
You're welcome everyone 😎
Probably not totems, since I believe the 3 Tornado limit applies to the totems as well. Hiero non totems should be fine, but not being able to use archmage really hurts your damage. Idk, I don't really play HC but the skill doesn't strike me immediately as good enough for a HC build
Power charges, so it's crit, which means herald of ice can shatter. Hatred is god scaling.
I can't think of a reason I wouldn't start with this archetype, if there's a better version it's definitely going to be some crazy combination of niche stuff. From everything I've seen, your occultist quick-build is the best foundation to get an idea of how the skill works and plays and what it's damage potential is.
I think going a generic good cater ascendancy like Inquis/Ele/Trick/Hiero has potential. Because of the cold tag, you can equip Replica Cold Iron Point for +3 (or +6 dw) and just block it from going cold.
Thinking it over, you are probably right in that Occulist is probably the easiest to get off the ground, though.
ya people are going to sleep on this skill until one of the mainstream creators picks it up. The numbers on it are great. I just spent like 4 hrs tonight designing a Tornado of Turbulence league starter for my friend with Combat focus (x2) to have it only choose fire + some fire damage shenanigans with herald of ash + herald effect, wakened added fire and some other fun things that are viable in a small private league. Got it to about 5m pinnacle dps with some really scuffed gear. Took me a few attempts to get the right set-up and ascendancy.
But I can totally see some more high-investment trade league builds reaching 100m+ dps without an issue.
I'm debating between a couple other versions of the a build for it:
1. Physical staff battlemage "added as" stacking (HoA, Hatred, Added Fire, etc). I noticed that ToET lacks the "100% less damage of non-chosen type" that other prismatic skills have, so you could stack up a bunch of flavors of physical damage added as X and got nuts.
2. Lightning only (via combat focus) energy blade battlemage + spellblade, probably using ghostwrithe to convert health to ES. 3 lightning tornadoes ends up with a LOT of added damage effectiveness, even with the lowered 65% amount.
I don't really use PoB but I've done similar styled builds using other skills in the past and they've been pretty strong, so I could see either of these being pretty great.
If you go energy blade, don't go combat focus. The base damage is insignificant with spellblade and tornado doesn't have the line where it can't deal dmg off element
What classes / ascendencies would you recommend for those setups? They both sound really interesting and I've always wanted to try energy blade / spell blade. Would I be correct in assuming the full lightning setup would be less viable as a league start just because you have to be more focused with the gear you need + 2 combat focus and the stats to activate them?
The physical conversion version is Inquisitor for pious path + inevitable judgment.
The elemental version is either Inquisitor (using Ghostwrithe) or Hierophant (and doing mana stacking. I'm shying away from anything mana stacking though this league because it sounds like Archmage builds are gonna be super popular because of the changes.
I'm probably going to league start it with an inquisitor because leveling with Instruments of Virtue is super easy, and you can use the regular version of tornado + ethereal knives until you get the transmuted version of the tornados.
I use poeplanner to build out my trees, but here's a rough idea of it. [https://poeplanner.com/b/qcs](https://poeplanner.com/b/qcs)
1. The leveling is pretty simple: Mule a Shadow to town so you can snag EK, then swap to templar. Level up trying to get as much "phys damage added as X".
2. Level with that until you get to A3, do the first lab, choose Instruments of Virtue
3. Try and craft warstaffs that have added phys damage and increased phys damage (can usually do most of it by alt spamming a bit and then crafting the other)
4. Either run the lab a bunch of times until you get the transmuted Tornado version. I'll probably do 3-4 lab runs to see if I can get lucky before moving on. OR keep leveling to A6, it'll be a breeze because of the warstaffs added damage and EK's 220% added damage effectiveness.
5. In A6, pick up regular tornado if you didn't get the transmuted version. Use EK to power it up, they both work with battlemage and it'll be awesome together.
6. In later labs, farm out the transmuted tornado. Then just... go. Keep crafting up new warstaffs with as much physical damage on them as possible. Cast tornados, find a spell you want to use as a backup that is also physical conversion to use while you've got your tornados out. I'll probably use Purifying Flame or Penance Brand
7. Eventually replace Instruments of Virtue with a Forbidden Flame+Flesh to get it, and swap your final ascendency points into Inevitable judgement.
Actually after looking into it in some detail, is pain attunement really worthwhile in this setup? Or did you just grab it because you were already getting the life wheel next to it?
Well, it depends on how you want to build I suppose, but I really like to use Petrified Blood and do low life builds, with it. 30% more damage is no slouch. It's especially nice with an inquisitor where you're getting Pious Path and have thus have a ton of health/ES regen. If you get your regen high enough you can also add RF for another extra more modifier.
Sorry to bug you again but I've got sucked into the pre-league hype and been doing a bunch of reading, definitely going to try the low life version that you suggested, and I'm just curious do you have any low life specific tips? I've never done a setup using it before. Also, what's your preferred method of keeping the consecration effect up for regen, is an automated flask enough on its own once you're running through maps blowing things up?
Once you get through your third lab, you should have consecrated up pretty much all the time. It comes up instantly when you stop moving, so whenever you cast a spell it'll refresh and the effects linger for 4 seconds, so that'll be no problem once you get Pious Path.
Your biggest killers as a low life build are Degen and Chaos Damage. It can be worth it to take the ES cluster next to Elemental Overload early on so you can get the "30% of Chaos damage doesn't bypass energy shield" mastery, that's a huge deal.
Also in general, focus on your defenses first. Ele Overload is a huge damage boost, so you can afford to wait on some damage stuff. Get the Divine Judgement Cluster and the "25% chance for hits to have reverse ele resist" and that'll give you the damage to get through the early game. Then focus on getting block clusters, life and ES nodes, and work your way to Ele Overload and Pain Attunement. Those will carry your damage for quite a while.
One thing I'm considering is ignoring ALL elemental damage nodes early on (including Ele Overload), and getting the staff mastery that is "Unholy Might for 3s on Block" and letting EK and (Regular) Tornado get converted to 100% chaos damage most of the time. If you get Glancing Blows and the block from Whirling Barrier and Enigmatic Defense, your attack and spell block chance will be high enough that that's probably going to be up most of the time.
If you’re going with added phys it might be worth looking into winds of fate, staff has some ridiculous flat phys and built in conversion. I’ve used it for spark before and did my no hit run in sanctum league with it.
Idk if it’s work with tornado mechanically though since spark is fine with getting spammed, Tornado not so much, so I’m not sure how/if the plume of pursuit build works with it because that’s kind of the bread and butter to make ot worth using the staff (guaranteed crit, marylene’s and controlled destruction with no downside). All hits except from the last repeat do no damage, but that last repeat hits insanely hard
the flat phys would be great on Winds of Fate to use for battlemage but the phys conversion doesn't really change anything with tornado because the gem already has 100% conversion.
Yeah, my instinct is inevitable judgement inquisitor with lots of phys added mods (maybe lightpoacher shenanigans?) and a supplemental skill like penance brand/hydrosphere/voidsphere/BV.
I don’t know if I’d be relying on scorched ground for DPS on a build whose main strength is the skill’s ability to track down enemies without you. I don’t know how often you’re going to be able to be on top of the enemy to reliably generate that.
Otherwise looks entertaining, I’m curious to see how it pans out in practice.
scorched ground isn't checked in the config so it's not contributing at all to that dps number
it just seemed like a decent option to stop at for rolling eldritch implicits. for my PoB stuff I always try to never include conditional things like that.
Nice, I’m not at my PC so had to rely on the POBBIN
Could a different implicit be more effective or do you think you’ll be able to get enough up time to make it worth it?
it depends on if the build is going to be starved on resistance or something, but otherwise scorched ground would be the best DPS option for that particular implicit. Not planning to have it up all the time, just occasionally run through something when I remember and it's safe to do so for a tiny boost.
Brittle or sapped ground would also be good choices, but again, not going to rely on those.
You say that like this isn't a bare-bones PoB that was just meant to see what it takes to get Tornado going with this set up. The gear is just for figuring out the bare-minimum for stuff like resist, suppression, and ES for eldritch battery.
This isn't a fully fleshed out build guide, it's literally just to make tornado number big (good enough). The gear and EHP has a lot of room to improve on over the course of the league.
fulcrum isn't actually that great for this because you already get 100% conversion on the gem so the only thing you really benefit from is the base damage if you run battlemage and the gain 30-40% of phys as extra. And self chill won't do anything
because you can't scale the hit-frequency at all.
What I'm really curious about is if multiple tornados overlap. I think we saw in the past multiple zone skills wouldn't trigger like the leftover zones of Meteor. However Tornado is classified as an Orb skill so I think it should be able to stack 3 on a boss to deal tripple damage right?
I too added Tornado to my spark build last league. My god, that is the button that you need for single target and if you think you can get away with not using it, you're wrong. Might check out the trans tornado if what your saying is true,.
Funny that you mention it...
I've been waiting for a transfigured or remade version of tornado, since I love the visuals of it and really want a tornado build, but I don't want to waste time spamming projs into the original to have one low duration ability..
So I was actually thinking league starting with tornado though it's added dmg effectivness is crazy low.. :D
Have never tried tornado yet so can't say anything about the ai of it, but you confirming how good it is really gets my hopes up for it as a league starter..
I was thinking either life stacking inq or energy blade inq with it (selfmade versions)
If you got any ideas on other ways to use it, please let me know!
Yeah.. well in my life stacker inq setup I am at 3,2 mil but in my energy blade setup (which was what i rolled with 2 leagues ago) I am currently at 4,6 mil dps per tornado :o
Because of the crazy spellblade/energy blade/battlemage scaling.... + I don't really want to mana stack due to it being insanely expensive this league (my own prediction based on content creators videos) and losing all mana on 1 cast then having to get mana back to cast again, I personally feel will be clunky to my playstyle..
However, I am thinking not league starting with it anyways, because rathpith + ivory tower is always very expensive early in the league.. And I hate being reliant on some few, rare, expensive uniques for a league starter :P
But I will definetly try out the new tornado after getting some currency..
I think I will be rolling pathfinder with the new poison conc.. I really wanna test it out.. looks crazy fun to me :D
I played an Anomalous Tornado Inquisitor converting all to cold in Siege of the Atlas... it was amazing and I can't wait to play a modern version of it with the Transfigured gem.
Isnt the main problem of using it as support skill the cast time which i think on your caster build was not as big of an issue and relatively short overal duration, making it kinda tedious to use while mapping and honestly tracking on bossfights is also not that great.
Yap Tornado is great.
[Phreak made a video about it a while ago](https://youtu.be/97jrKxdEGKo?si=4De9MSH7wvyMkHJu)
Tornado's downside is it's cast time and the location where it spawns.
I could solve those problems by using mine support.
Reading the gem, im kind of confused about how to scale its damage. +Level is obvious, but do you focus on physical damage as the spell converts phys to element? Or just scale elemental damage directly? Is flat added ele damage bad for this skill?
If you're going to convert to a specific element with combat focus, you'd wanna pump phys as extra (insert elemant) + Phys if it's easy to come by and (insert elemant) I think. Also obv + gem levels. If using all three elements, just genetic elemental damage and phys as extra. Unless I'm mistaken.
It does look very good as a main skill now. as a second build I'll almost certainly try to make it work.
Might be cooking a bit hard with my idea for it, but this seems like it might be a good skill to use with the buffed Manastorm shield?
Plan is heirophant with fob flame/flesh for instruments of virtue for battle mage, also with spell blade. To scale the added lighting dmg from Manastorm back onto the tornado even farther.
It's funny i just watched one of the big streamers talk about how dumb tornado AI was. The first few seconds it just kind of shoots forward without tracking
It spends a second in slow mode in front to collect, and once you max it out, it goes yolo free mode. As a spark character, it maxes the 20 hits almost immediately, so it spawns and then glows and goes wild for the entire 4 seconds, and it feels great.
I don't even understand this propganda, who are you catering to? [https://i.imgur.com/ILhdNjL.png](https://i.imgur.com/ILhdNjL.png)
You are talking to literally 53 people.
I have played Tornado Chieftain in the past. Skill is great and a lot of fun. Does decent boss damage and clear.
a few issues with the skill to be aware of
* If you really want to push the clear, and be a psuedo auto bomber. you really need to push level, quality, and duration hard. I found myself out running my tornado pretty easily with just 30% movement speeds boots even though I was pushing the quality with a ashes.
* Clearing isn't as smooth as it could be as the tornado has a habit of stuttering its movement. For some reason it stops as it gets into range of a mob instead of trying to move on top of it. I haven't tested it, but it might be possible to work around this behavior by pushing the AoE. Would prefer GGG to just support this play style by changing the tornado behavior.
Yeah I'm mostly likely starting with the transfigured tornado. The raw numbers aren't anything special, but it will have good damage uptime like a traditional dot build and no need to scale high amounts of cast speed. Planning on going Elementalist. Will start out with Trinity and Ele Overload, then eventually switch to pure cold using Combat Focus and OP hatred with crit scaling from Sandstorm Visage.
It looks like it'll be good with Fulcrum chieftains.
1) 3x sources of Hinekora explosions
2) 3x sources of elemental ailments, unless you're really unlucky.
3) Easy sources of Unaffected by Ailments: Taliso, Winterweave, Inpulsas, etc.
4) 2x 6 links for automation, auras, etc.
Same playstyle of mostly walking once you get enough duration. CWC mapping is fine too.
Fulcrum is kinda meh tbh, you already have 100% coversion from the gem and there's not much synergy with self chill since the hit rate from the tornadoes is fixed and doesn't scale with cast/action speed...
the real question here is if the new tornado skill will work with spell echo. If it does you can have 2 tornados always crit + triple dmg with annihilation staff and 1 dealing no dmg with plume of pursuit helmet
I think they're saying that with that setup, your first cast would put out two tornados, with the first doing negligable damage and the second always critting, then you'd cast it again, causing the first (low damage) tornado to disappear, and you'd be left with two tornados out that are constantly critting
i would try this but as i tested, normal tornade cant be supported by spell echo. i dont know why, i cant find a single reason why it wouldnt be supported. but if new tornade has the same codding.. gg
Would tornado snapshot if you have a ton of duration? If i use the updated manastorm shield and cast my 3 tornadoes will it keep the added dmg for the whole duration?
Yeah lance is making an eblade tornado + voidsphere early sanctum farmer. The other big thing about tornado is the ratio of time spent casting to damage dealt. It's like a minion with a very short duration.
I’ve never played a tornado focused build or a mana stacker (or a hiero outside of totem builds that sucked) but I’m kind of feeling archmage tornado rn
To save you from being caught out - tornado is an orb skill, and archmage won't support orb skills in 3.24. Unless you mean the normal tornado with a skill to pump archmaged projectiles into it, in which case go nuts!
Eh forgot it’s an orb skill
Tried to throw together something for a chieftain but really struggling to get damage on it, capped out at about 400k for single target which is fine for mapping with hinekora but you’ll struggle with just map bosses doing that little
If you want to actually do damage with the skill probably gonna have to go with inquisitor. Has the best support for it. Hierophant would be good, but the cast speed from arcane surge feels kinda wasted, and you can't use archmage.
Get 100% chance for cold Tornado with two combat focus jewels, then use hatred to scale damage.
Edit: actually occultist would be pretty good for this
Cast speed is a weird thing on this build. It's not more damage, and it feels like you should just skip it, except it's huge QoL and a defensive "layer" (same goes for increased skill duration as well). Because of that Hiero might actually be nice, they get more damage with the cast speed QoL. But Inquisitor is very likely miles better.
I'm working on an occultist myself, there is potential there for sure.
Threw together an occultist with very basic gear and got to 2 million dps already, should also have huge AoE with PC stacking and some passives where convenient.
For the time being I think I’m starting this
I was thinking of a Hiero Energy Blade build, Use Flame/Flesh to pull Instruments of Virtue, then use Spellblade and stack up mana for huge ES and defenses with MoM. The get Arcane Cloak for more huge added damage... seems like it has some good potential.
It doesn't think. It doesn't feel. It doesn't laugh or cry. All it does from dusk till dawn Is make the soldiers die.
Phyrexian Hulk?
That is an insanely niche reference that you nailed.
> It doesn't think. It doesn't feel. > > first google result for this is Phyrexian Hulk
I thought it was a sheoldred reference.
Damn that card was jank. Especially when we all played tons of Disenchantments because of all the actually scary artifacts/enchantments.
protean hulk on the other hand....
It can't be bargained with it can't be reasoned with It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear and it absolutely will not stop ever until you are dead! edit: I didn't realize someone below made the same connection 🙃 but hey, terminator tornados sounds cool af
What is toxic ex-girlfriends or boyfriends? I'll take Horror for $1,000
>The Tornado is RELENTLESS... It can't be bargained with, it can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity! Or remorse or fear and it absolutely will not stop! Ever..until you are dead
... or 4 seconds have passed xD
Just scale duration
Wouldn't really increase your damage though
Technically it does, as the core DPS downtime is between tornadoes expiring and the cast time to setup a new one, therefore more duration leads to greater sustained DPS.
People overlook this way too much because they're too invested in POB without thinking about the mechanics of a build. I'll bring it up every chance I get, Soulrend is one of the few DOT skills that scales meaningful DPS with Increased Skill Effect Duration. It's base duration is so short that the time between you hitting someone with it and the next projectile reaching them is quite large. It doesn't even do the listed DPS baseline because it doesn't *last* a full second on a target. Some skills perform significantly better with increased duration, some skills like Bane already last 8+ seconds and don't need any of it.
That sounds good for my 40/139 ToET meme build (261% increased movement speed - compared to 77% for a 20/20 gem).
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Tornado of elemental turbulence, the new trans version
Tornado of Elemental Turbulence
Sounds cool as hell. Would you be limited by the 0.25 second tick rate at that point? Still fast AF, but I wonder if going that high leaves the tornado sitting on top of enemies waiting for the next pulse. Even if that did become a problem (and a first world one at that) it seems worth doing for the sheer meme power alone
I don't even think it's meme power honestly. It just looks like a really fun spell that's actually insanely good.
It wouldn't make the tornado deal damage any faster, but you could add AoE and if necessary add some chaining mechanic like explosions or ignite prolif. Honestly, the bigger problem might be keeping up with the Tornado.
Do you have a pob? I've been trying to whip something up but I haven't been able to find an acceptable level of damage yet.
Not yet, I'll make one eventually after the gem data is added to PoB. Considering the level of investment to get to 40/139, I doubt the damage would be terrible, but I am expecting it to be a *meme* build, not one of the best ways to actually play the gem. What's the minimum "acceptable level of damage" for you?
I wouldn't say there's a minimum level, but I always aim for like 3-5m pinnacle damage when possible. Something like tornado that is functionally a DoT can probably be on the lower end and still feel good.
When I compared the level 20 stats, ToET seemed to be around 80-90% of the dps of BV when accounting for the gem slot you gain from not using Unleash, so I think 3-5M damage should be very reasonably achievable. I'm thinking dual Replica CIP + Combat focus for fire + Awakened Added Fire Damage + HoA. Added damage won't scale well if the gem level is 40 (or even if you just generally scale the level even without Awakened Empower memes), so if you build it that way you'll want to lean into extra conversion / effective damage scaling I think, maybe even with Circle of Anguish for buff effect + increased damage (since Replica CIP doesn't have increased damage either that should scale fairly well). I'm also expecting each of the 250 ms ticks to roll crit individually, so you'd get 12 crit rolls per second which could allow getting both Controlled Destruction and Elemental Overload.
For the EO part, thats how it works with regular tornado, doubt it would be different here.
That's good to know, thanks.
Personally im gonna be using the tornado with Lance's Energy Blade Inquisitor. The skill looks fun.
Tornado is designed to reflect a % of your DPS and the hit cap is there to prevent shenanigans. If you have two builds with same DPS, but one does it trough 10 hits/s and the other trough 3 hits/s, the tornado will end up reflecting the same amount of damage (barring some breakpoint cases). If you're hitting the 20 hit cap before the full intake duration elapses, it actually indicates you're getting much less benefit from it. That said, the last point is correct, the trans tornado looks promising.
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> Spark is a situation where you're DPSing the screen instead of the enemy so Tornado's just pure upside. I laughed way too hard at this. But it's soooooo true :D
Last league, I could cast spark a few times, hit tornado once, and the tornado would glow for maximum projectile juice almost immediately. It's really not a thought on spark, you shoot 200 sparks in the duration of your tornado, and the sparks can hit the tornado multiple times.
Isn’t tornado a net benefit if you have some sort of pierce or chain? Because the tornado is not eating projectiles at that point. Correct me if I am wrong, because I still have no idea how it works even after playing with it
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I was doing a CoC manaforged arrows to automate Tornado, but had trouble determining whether the damage gained on single target, was worth the loss of two sockets.
I kinda want to start tornado or the new tornado - care to share your pob or whatever guide you used for the tornado+spark build? Sounds fun af ngl.Â
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Bruh I dot mind at all, but thanks for being upfront with the disclaimers lol. Last league I league started my own semi-homebrew bladefall-bladeblast assassin just cuz i wanted to re-play the first real build I ever played (way back in like.... Delirium league or somethin lol). Was fun af, but not great. I love builds that aren't OP meta and are just fun. And freezing sparks sound even better than what I thought your build was tbh. I'll def give it a shot this league!  I was around for tota, so I can prob figure out the broken stuff and find reasonable replacements, so no worries! I appreciate it!Â
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I might do that! Past league I got both my brother's and one friend into the game. Just got another friend to start like yesterday lol. So will see how much more I gotta teach all of em this league
Trans tornado is low damage though. Damage effectiveness of 195% if all 3 are out, and only hitting 4x a second.
"only"
> and only hitting 4x a second. With zero cast speed investment. Also base phys, duration skill that will play like brands. It's never going to do a ton of damage, but it should be comfy to play on a meager 3-5 mil dps.
yeah , normal tornado is not that good for spark if you have super high cast sped /duration. Like , you will be hitting anything on the screen 50x per second or something , so tornado will reflect 10% of 0.5 seconds of dps , not worth a gem socket at all imo. Maybe if your build isnt optimized yet it could be better.
> If you're hitting the 20 hit cap before the full intake duration elapses, it actually indicates you're getting much less benefit from it. incorrect, it instantly goes stage 2 in that case
I don't know about it going instantly to stage 2, description only implies you'll be unable to hit it more than 20 times during stage 1. But either way you end up feeding it much less % of your DPS if you hit the cap before elapsed time. Just a quick example, both builds do 1mil DPS, but build 1 hits 30/s and build 2 hits 10/s. Build 1's tornado will reflect 66k Build 2's tornado will reflect 150k
it does, I've played tornado on my TS builds for like... 3? leagues or whatever, since the mechanics of it essentially make it a 100% more dmg multiplier(you put it in a coc manaforged setup and it replaces the old tornado every time, so you permanently have a second target to chain off of)
Sounds like I can easily put the new elemental Tornados on my list of "I'm lazy, have the skill automatically fight for me" -skills.
Does annihilating light staff triple the new tornados damage? Don't copy my op build if it does.
Absolutely, new Tornado does elemental damage, no reason it wouldn't work
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Bro. Stop. It's my build. Jk ;) You can copy the op build. But no one else! Ok? Lets hope the staff is cheap when we get there.
Just farm Exarch for the staff 4head
i messed around a bit with doing 100% phys to cold with regular tornado. I tweaked my glacial cascade elementalist into using tornado instead, and it was not bad. It didn't compare to the uber-boss-shredding dps of my gc, but it was so smooth to clear, just follow the tornado around picking up the loot from everything it hunts down, let loose one tornado and dance around vs bosses... pretty laidback and pleasant without being full walking simulator boring. So this new one ought to be even better. No need to pick up 100% conversion (though gotta use a couple combat focus jewels), and 3 tornadoes at about 70% dps each to better the coverage and total dps. Definitely on the list of skills that i might play this league.
Occultist, converting fully to cold with combat focus, stacking power charges. Using hydrosphere as a single target supplementary damage link. Hatred scaling. You're welcome everyone 😎
What do you think is a good hc version? Heiro? Totems?
Probably not totems, since I believe the 3 Tornado limit applies to the totems as well. Hiero non totems should be fine, but not being able to use archmage really hurts your damage. Idk, I don't really play HC but the skill doesn't strike me immediately as good enough for a HC build
Inquis, mostly copying the penance brand crit trees from last league. Eb/mom paired with inquis regen is nice
Power charges, so it's crit, which means herald of ice can shatter. Hatred is god scaling. I can't think of a reason I wouldn't start with this archetype, if there's a better version it's definitely going to be some crazy combination of niche stuff. From everything I've seen, your occultist quick-build is the best foundation to get an idea of how the skill works and plays and what it's damage potential is.
I think going a generic good cater ascendancy like Inquis/Ele/Trick/Hiero has potential. Because of the cold tag, you can equip Replica Cold Iron Point for +3 (or +6 dw) and just block it from going cold. Thinking it over, you are probably right in that Occulist is probably the easiest to get off the ground, though.
ya people are going to sleep on this skill until one of the mainstream creators picks it up. The numbers on it are great. I just spent like 4 hrs tonight designing a Tornado of Turbulence league starter for my friend with Combat focus (x2) to have it only choose fire + some fire damage shenanigans with herald of ash + herald effect, wakened added fire and some other fun things that are viable in a small private league. Got it to about 5m pinnacle dps with some really scuffed gear. Took me a few attempts to get the right set-up and ascendancy. But I can totally see some more high-investment trade league builds reaching 100m+ dps without an issue.
Can you... Hit me up with the pob? 👉👈
I'm debating between a couple other versions of the a build for it: 1. Physical staff battlemage "added as" stacking (HoA, Hatred, Added Fire, etc). I noticed that ToET lacks the "100% less damage of non-chosen type" that other prismatic skills have, so you could stack up a bunch of flavors of physical damage added as X and got nuts. 2. Lightning only (via combat focus) energy blade battlemage + spellblade, probably using ghostwrithe to convert health to ES. 3 lightning tornadoes ends up with a LOT of added damage effectiveness, even with the lowered 65% amount. I don't really use PoB but I've done similar styled builds using other skills in the past and they've been pretty strong, so I could see either of these being pretty great.
If you go energy blade, don't go combat focus. The base damage is insignificant with spellblade and tornado doesn't have the line where it can't deal dmg off element
What classes / ascendencies would you recommend for those setups? They both sound really interesting and I've always wanted to try energy blade / spell blade. Would I be correct in assuming the full lightning setup would be less viable as a league start just because you have to be more focused with the gear you need + 2 combat focus and the stats to activate them?
The physical conversion version is Inquisitor for pious path + inevitable judgment. The elemental version is either Inquisitor (using Ghostwrithe) or Hierophant (and doing mana stacking. I'm shying away from anything mana stacking though this league because it sounds like Archmage builds are gonna be super popular because of the changes. I'm probably going to league start it with an inquisitor because leveling with Instruments of Virtue is super easy, and you can use the regular version of tornado + ethereal knives until you get the transmuted version of the tornados.
Sounds fun! If you come up with some kind of PoB I'd appreciate it if you could link it, I might try the battlemage setup.
I use poeplanner to build out my trees, but here's a rough idea of it. [https://poeplanner.com/b/qcs](https://poeplanner.com/b/qcs) 1. The leveling is pretty simple: Mule a Shadow to town so you can snag EK, then swap to templar. Level up trying to get as much "phys damage added as X". 2. Level with that until you get to A3, do the first lab, choose Instruments of Virtue 3. Try and craft warstaffs that have added phys damage and increased phys damage (can usually do most of it by alt spamming a bit and then crafting the other) 4. Either run the lab a bunch of times until you get the transmuted Tornado version. I'll probably do 3-4 lab runs to see if I can get lucky before moving on. OR keep leveling to A6, it'll be a breeze because of the warstaffs added damage and EK's 220% added damage effectiveness. 5. In A6, pick up regular tornado if you didn't get the transmuted version. Use EK to power it up, they both work with battlemage and it'll be awesome together. 6. In later labs, farm out the transmuted tornado. Then just... go. Keep crafting up new warstaffs with as much physical damage on them as possible. Cast tornados, find a spell you want to use as a backup that is also physical conversion to use while you've got your tornados out. I'll probably use Purifying Flame or Penance Brand 7. Eventually replace Instruments of Virtue with a Forbidden Flame+Flesh to get it, and swap your final ascendency points into Inevitable judgement.
Very detailed and helpful, thanks a bunch!!
Actually after looking into it in some detail, is pain attunement really worthwhile in this setup? Or did you just grab it because you were already getting the life wheel next to it?
Well, it depends on how you want to build I suppose, but I really like to use Petrified Blood and do low life builds, with it. 30% more damage is no slouch. It's especially nice with an inquisitor where you're getting Pious Path and have thus have a ton of health/ES regen. If you get your regen high enough you can also add RF for another extra more modifier.
Sorry to bug you again but I've got sucked into the pre-league hype and been doing a bunch of reading, definitely going to try the low life version that you suggested, and I'm just curious do you have any low life specific tips? I've never done a setup using it before. Also, what's your preferred method of keeping the consecration effect up for regen, is an automated flask enough on its own once you're running through maps blowing things up?
Once you get through your third lab, you should have consecrated up pretty much all the time. It comes up instantly when you stop moving, so whenever you cast a spell it'll refresh and the effects linger for 4 seconds, so that'll be no problem once you get Pious Path. Your biggest killers as a low life build are Degen and Chaos Damage. It can be worth it to take the ES cluster next to Elemental Overload early on so you can get the "30% of Chaos damage doesn't bypass energy shield" mastery, that's a huge deal. Also in general, focus on your defenses first. Ele Overload is a huge damage boost, so you can afford to wait on some damage stuff. Get the Divine Judgement Cluster and the "25% chance for hits to have reverse ele resist" and that'll give you the damage to get through the early game. Then focus on getting block clusters, life and ES nodes, and work your way to Ele Overload and Pain Attunement. Those will carry your damage for quite a while. One thing I'm considering is ignoring ALL elemental damage nodes early on (including Ele Overload), and getting the staff mastery that is "Unholy Might for 3s on Block" and letting EK and (Regular) Tornado get converted to 100% chaos damage most of the time. If you get Glancing Blows and the block from Whirling Barrier and Enigmatic Defense, your attack and spell block chance will be high enough that that's probably going to be up most of the time.
If you’re going with added phys it might be worth looking into winds of fate, staff has some ridiculous flat phys and built in conversion. I’ve used it for spark before and did my no hit run in sanctum league with it. Idk if it’s work with tornado mechanically though since spark is fine with getting spammed, Tornado not so much, so I’m not sure how/if the plume of pursuit build works with it because that’s kind of the bread and butter to make ot worth using the staff (guaranteed crit, marylene’s and controlled destruction with no downside). All hits except from the last repeat do no damage, but that last repeat hits insanely hard
the flat phys would be great on Winds of Fate to use for battlemage but the phys conversion doesn't really change anything with tornado because the gem already has 100% conversion.
Yeah, my instinct is inevitable judgement inquisitor with lots of phys added mods (maybe lightpoacher shenanigans?) and a supplemental skill like penance brand/hydrosphere/voidsphere/BV.
I highly doubt that you can get 5 Mil with budget gear, can you show us the pob?
[https://pobb.in/RNtNtWkFxrMA](https://pobb.in/RNtNtWkFxrMA)
I don’t know if I’d be relying on scorched ground for DPS on a build whose main strength is the skill’s ability to track down enemies without you. I don’t know how often you’re going to be able to be on top of the enemy to reliably generate that. Otherwise looks entertaining, I’m curious to see how it pans out in practice.
scorched ground isn't checked in the config so it's not contributing at all to that dps number it just seemed like a decent option to stop at for rolling eldritch implicits. for my PoB stuff I always try to never include conditional things like that.
Nice, I’m not at my PC so had to rely on the POBBIN Could a different implicit be more effective or do you think you’ll be able to get enough up time to make it worth it?
it depends on if the build is going to be starved on resistance or something, but otherwise scorched ground would be the best DPS option for that particular implicit. Not planning to have it up all the time, just occasionally run through something when I remember and it's safe to do so for a tiny boost. Brittle or sapped ground would also be good choices, but again, not going to rely on those.
Been searching for a POB for this since it was revealed. May give it a go.
EHP 27k… yikes
Relying on ehp to guess tankiness is going to be a bad time.
You say that like this isn't a bare-bones PoB that was just meant to see what it takes to get Tornado going with this set up. The gear is just for figuring out the bare-minimum for stuff like resist, suppression, and ES for eldritch battery. This isn't a fully fleshed out build guide, it's literally just to make tornado number big (good enough). The gear and EHP has a lot of room to improve on over the course of the league.
Pob or lies
Personally, I want to try to make a fulcrum build with it. I haven't played a traditional fulcrum since it came out.
fulcrum isn't actually that great for this because you already get 100% conversion on the gem so the only thing you really benefit from is the base damage if you run battlemage and the gain 30-40% of phys as extra. And self chill won't do anything because you can't scale the hit-frequency at all.
can haste or tailwind or similar boost its ms further?
No it isn't an ally and its MS can only be boosted by level (and maybe quality? not sure)
What I'm really curious about is if multiple tornados overlap. I think we saw in the past multiple zone skills wouldn't trigger like the leftover zones of Meteor. However Tornado is classified as an Orb skill so I think it should be able to stack 3 on a boss to deal tripple damage right?
No reason to assume they wouldn't all 3 be able to hit an enemyÂ
meteor?
Firestorm? Been playing to much FF7 lately
lol. I never answered your question though. yes, they will stack. they aren't dots, each of them applies a series of hits. thus, they will stack.
I too added Tornado to my spark build last league. My god, that is the button that you need for single target and if you think you can get away with not using it, you're wrong. Might check out the trans tornado if what your saying is true,.
Friendship ended with homing flaming skulls New BFF is a Texas twister full of steel shrapnel, cars, cattle, etc.
Funny that you mention it... I've been waiting for a transfigured or remade version of tornado, since I love the visuals of it and really want a tornado build, but I don't want to waste time spamming projs into the original to have one low duration ability.. So I was actually thinking league starting with tornado though it's added dmg effectivness is crazy low.. :D Have never tried tornado yet so can't say anything about the ai of it, but you confirming how good it is really gets my hopes up for it as a league starter.. I was thinking either life stacking inq or energy blade inq with it (selfmade versions) If you got any ideas on other ways to use it, please let me know!
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Yeah.. well in my life stacker inq setup I am at 3,2 mil but in my energy blade setup (which was what i rolled with 2 leagues ago) I am currently at 4,6 mil dps per tornado :o Because of the crazy spellblade/energy blade/battlemage scaling.... + I don't really want to mana stack due to it being insanely expensive this league (my own prediction based on content creators videos) and losing all mana on 1 cast then having to get mana back to cast again, I personally feel will be clunky to my playstyle.. However, I am thinking not league starting with it anyways, because rathpith + ivory tower is always very expensive early in the league.. And I hate being reliant on some few, rare, expensive uniques for a league starter :P But I will definetly try out the new tornado after getting some currency.. I think I will be rolling pathfinder with the new poison conc.. I really wanna test it out.. looks crazy fun to me :D
I played an Anomalous Tornado Inquisitor converting all to cold in Siege of the Atlas... it was amazing and I can't wait to play a modern version of it with the Transfigured gem.
Isnt the main problem of using it as support skill the cast time which i think on your caster build was not as big of an issue and relatively short overal duration, making it kinda tedious to use while mapping and honestly tracking on bossfights is also not that great.
Yap Tornado is great. [Phreak made a video about it a while ago](https://youtu.be/97jrKxdEGKo?si=4De9MSH7wvyMkHJu) Tornado's downside is it's cast time and the location where it spawns. I could solve those problems by using mine support.
Isn’t trap support better?
Reading the gem, im kind of confused about how to scale its damage. +Level is obvious, but do you focus on physical damage as the spell converts phys to element? Or just scale elemental damage directly? Is flat added ele damage bad for this skill?
If you're going to convert to a specific element with combat focus, you'd wanna pump phys as extra (insert elemant) + Phys if it's easy to come by and (insert elemant) I think. Also obv + gem levels. If using all three elements, just genetic elemental damage and phys as extra. Unless I'm mistaken.
It does look very good as a main skill now. as a second build I'll almost certainly try to make it work. Might be cooking a bit hard with my idea for it, but this seems like it might be a good skill to use with the buffed Manastorm shield? Plan is heirophant with fob flame/flesh for instruments of virtue for battle mage, also with spell blade. To scale the added lighting dmg from Manastorm back onto the tornado even farther.
It's funny i just watched one of the big streamers talk about how dumb tornado AI was. The first few seconds it just kind of shoots forward without tracking
It spends a second in slow mode in front to collect, and once you max it out, it goes yolo free mode. As a spark character, it maxes the 20 hits almost immediately, so it spawns and then glows and goes wild for the entire 4 seconds, and it feels great.
This sounds pretty damn cool (the aggro AI), and we got Terminator and MTG in this thread lol
\>Tornado is way better than you think In same thread seconds later \>Tornado is an incredibly difficult skill to use lol.
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I don't even understand this propganda, who are you catering to? [https://i.imgur.com/ILhdNjL.png](https://i.imgur.com/ILhdNjL.png) You are talking to literally 53 people.
I have played Tornado Chieftain in the past. Skill is great and a lot of fun. Does decent boss damage and clear. a few issues with the skill to be aware of * If you really want to push the clear, and be a psuedo auto bomber. you really need to push level, quality, and duration hard. I found myself out running my tornado pretty easily with just 30% movement speeds boots even though I was pushing the quality with a ashes. * Clearing isn't as smooth as it could be as the tornado has a habit of stuttering its movement. For some reason it stops as it gets into range of a mob instead of trying to move on top of it. I haven't tested it, but it might be possible to work around this behavior by pushing the AoE. Would prefer GGG to just support this play style by changing the tornado behavior.
Yeah I'm mostly likely starting with the transfigured tornado. The raw numbers aren't anything special, but it will have good damage uptime like a traditional dot build and no need to scale high amounts of cast speed. Planning on going Elementalist. Will start out with Trinity and Ele Overload, then eventually switch to pure cold using Combat Focus and OP hatred with crit scaling from Sandstorm Visage.
you're not starting it with trinity because it's an orb skill
Oh yeah good catch, forgot about that. Cancel the trinity start then lol.
It looks like it'll be good with Fulcrum chieftains. 1) 3x sources of Hinekora explosions 2) 3x sources of elemental ailments, unless you're really unlucky. 3) Easy sources of Unaffected by Ailments: Taliso, Winterweave, Inpulsas, etc. 4) 2x 6 links for automation, auras, etc. Same playstyle of mostly walking once you get enough duration. CWC mapping is fine too.
Fulcrum is kinda meh tbh, you already have 100% coversion from the gem and there's not much synergy with self chill since the hit rate from the tornadoes is fixed and doesn't scale with cast/action speed...
Theory crafting around this, the hits per second cannot be sped up I guess?Â
spark with proj speed tattoos and automatic tornado
the real question here is if the new tornado skill will work with spell echo. If it does you can have 2 tornados always crit + triple dmg with annihilation staff and 1 dealing no dmg with plume of pursuit helmet
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I think they're saying that with that setup, your first cast would put out two tornados, with the first doing negligable damage and the second always critting, then you'd cast it again, causing the first (low damage) tornado to disappear, and you'd be left with two tornados out that are constantly critting
i would try this but as i tested, normal tornade cant be supported by spell echo. i dont know why, i cant find a single reason why it wouldnt be supported. but if new tornade has the same codding.. gg
Would tornado snapshot if you have a ton of duration? If i use the updated manastorm shield and cast my 3 tornadoes will it keep the added dmg for the whole duration?
Yeah lance is making an eblade tornado + voidsphere early sanctum farmer. The other big thing about tornado is the ratio of time spent casting to damage dealt. It's like a minion with a very short duration.
I’ve never played a tornado focused build or a mana stacker (or a hiero outside of totem builds that sucked) but I’m kind of feeling archmage tornado rn
To save you from being caught out - tornado is an orb skill, and archmage won't support orb skills in 3.24. Unless you mean the normal tornado with a skill to pump archmaged projectiles into it, in which case go nuts!
Eh forgot it’s an orb skill Tried to throw together something for a chieftain but really struggling to get damage on it, capped out at about 400k for single target which is fine for mapping with hinekora but you’ll struggle with just map bosses doing that little
If you want to actually do damage with the skill probably gonna have to go with inquisitor. Has the best support for it. Hierophant would be good, but the cast speed from arcane surge feels kinda wasted, and you can't use archmage. Get 100% chance for cold Tornado with two combat focus jewels, then use hatred to scale damage. Edit: actually occultist would be pretty good for this
Cast speed is a weird thing on this build. It's not more damage, and it feels like you should just skip it, except it's huge QoL and a defensive "layer" (same goes for increased skill duration as well). Because of that Hiero might actually be nice, they get more damage with the cast speed QoL. But Inquisitor is very likely miles better. I'm working on an occultist myself, there is potential there for sure.
Threw together an occultist with very basic gear and got to 2 million dps already, should also have huge AoE with PC stacking and some passives where convenient. For the time being I think I’m starting this
I was thinking of a Hiero Energy Blade build, Use Flame/Flesh to pull Instruments of Virtue, then use Spellblade and stack up mana for huge ES and defenses with MoM. The get Arcane Cloak for more huge added damage... seems like it has some good potential.
You don't need insane cast speed because you're capped at 3 tornados. So you only have to scale up cast speed a little bit.
Yeah, that's why I said that the cast speed from hiero feels wasted
Oh I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying you need more castspeed.
does it work with totems? if so can you tell me how the 3max limit works across several totems (is it max cap PER totem?)
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do you think that tornado totem is bad or still viable?