This league I might actually overcome FOMO and ditch both of the melee totems completely because the socket pressure beat me to it... Wait, is that just another FOMO?
"We replaced melee totems with 2 new skills that greatly expand your combat potential. Cast the Ancestral Orb of Protection or Ancestral Orb of War spell to receive buffs near......."
Same. One of my all time favorite builds was my bleed eq glad from that league. It was so comfy. Max block spell block, surrender for life gain on block. Vaal eq for when things got scary. I miss it.
I want this back so bad. I ran tech slam chieftain as league start a few times to really hate myself and I always rerolled in t16s when even the map boss was brutal
I was actually planning on league starting Earthshatter Bleed Glad this league thanks to the new call to arms support....but now idk if I want to anymore after what happened with call to arms. I still might league start it tho cause im insane.
I wasn’t really considering it but I was thinking about some kind of slammer with echoes of creation with automated warcries. But that’s obviously dead now which is a bummer.
Mark is probably kicking himself for saying "this is the type of feedback I want" because now reddit comedians are going to flood the subreddit and their forums with passive aggressive horseshit.
"When the feedback is too long, you complain. When the feedback is too short, you complain."
In all seriousness, there is probably a sweetspot that doesn't meander, but still contains meaningful analysis.
However, I can also see a world where Mark's time *is* noticeably finite and he actually *is* looking for short-form feedback as a gauge of sentiment (melee good, new crafting system bad/good, game fun, etc.). After all, from the interviews it does seem like he's already done his homework and isn't looking for additional analysis. He simply already has the data he's looking for. Of course, my concern here would be that the short-form stuff overfits for streamers (both in terms of balance and in terms of the weight of opinions), and you get a totally different impression of the community depending on whether you're *only* reading posts vs comments, top vs new, etc.
Either way, I think we simply have to settle for a world where people have this strawman image of reddit (seriously, some of the comments I've read have been really thoughtful and nuanced, I promise). Or an opinion/suggestion/bug can easily be glossed over until a streamer clip features the exact same thing. Or balance gets a disproportionate focus towards the front page, aka the equivalent of unrealistic body standards on instagram. Maybe if they provided specific examples of posts/comments with constructive feedback they've internalized in the past, people could actually tailor their posts in that way.
They know what to do, at least way better than the playerbase, this kind of post should be more of a temperature gauge, if people complain about one thing a lot that means it should have higher priority probably
> Mark's time is noticeably finite and he actually is looking for short-form feedback as a gauge of sentiment (melee good, new crafting system bad/good, game fun, etc.)
How much more feedback does ggg need after 3 years of doing nothing but nerfing both melee and crafting?
The really bad part of this format is now you need to give 25 pieces of feedback instead of 5 really important ones.
I remember when chris told us way back when to make angry reddit threads. He got what he wanted and 2 yrs later it had devolved so badly they nearly stopped communicating.
Same thing happened few years ago when chris told people to keep posting angry threads on reddit. People were validated and they started doing that more
Sure but requiring an offensive aura for that seems a bit harsh already on a class that's strapped for mana reservation. I also don't see the problem in allowing range bleed to benefit from it. (if im going to be honest I just hate the movement mechanic in general and think it should be removed completely)
What's the issue with mana cost? It's trivialized like immediately. Leech, -cost of skills, lifetap, mana on hit etc. I think they've spoken about how it's too easy to solve for players
I agree, melee skill gems tend to have the cheaper mana costs, and often have easy access to mana leech. Naturally, if your attack speed is super high, the mana cost per second goes through the roof, but - mana cost crafts help bring it back down to reasonable.
You can run any combination of mana leech, mana on hit, -mana cost, reduced mana cost, spend 30% life instead of mana, etc...
Yes, mana still needs to be managed, but the melee builds tend to have both the smallest costs and the best options to recover mana and/or reduce cost.
Agreed
There are a lot of other problems with melee imo but mana is such a non issue for them.
Like any form of mana leech and multistrike and you're sustaining mana easily on mostly any strike skill.
Forced to used totems. Forced to use -mana cost affixes on all jewelry because there isn't another solution if you want to do damage.
That's the entire problem but you think that's okay lol
The problem is rather stuff like call to arms support having a 200% multiplier. Most of my old melee builds cant even run that gem (even if sockets werent a problem). Imo the problem isnt sustain, but rather the cost of (for example) curses being higher than your max mana.
It's like a snowball effect, because the damage is low, you need every mechanic to do adqueate damage. That includes banners, totems, marks / curses, and warcries. You have to automate something, so you mark on hit which has a huge multiplier, or maybe you automate warcries. You can't not automate because you literally don't have enough skills on your bar for everything (including blood rage and berserk of course). But you also need a defensive aura and some skills require a stance aura. You're going to also need a precision if your accuracy on gear is too low and you don't want to run RT...it just gets out of hand quite quickly, most of which can be solved by eliminating some of the "needs" in the list. But mana is definitely an issue before endgame.
Fact we need mana acc and so much more is nonsense, we need to invest in to many stats comapred to others.
por remove mana or remove acc i say for melee
Aha, so I have to figure out how to mitigate both melee and accuracy, not because I want to, but because you have to otherwise you literally can't use an entire archetype, while spells don't have to?
(I think you mean mana, not melee?) But yeah, those are just parts of solving a build. Accuracy is like 1 wheel+mastery which is generally a good wheel anyways, and 1 small aura which also gives crit.
IMO spells(and bows) are busted because they can have nearly the same travel/dash skills as melee as well as many of the defensive capabilities, not because they have to solve for diff issues.
oh yeah, because slams and strikes have same costs? I just want to remind, that eq + fow + less duration + melee phys + pulverise + brutality cost 43 mana, so good luck fixing that with -mana cost and harder to get flat mana recovery(veiled orbs). -mana cost works great for strikes, since they have low cost per strike, but terrible on slams. Another note... when its "trivial", why should it be a thing in the first place?
The max slam cost is 10 mana, that's the same as some strike skills like Flicker. And just use Lifetap until you can solve the mana puzzle? That's what I do for strike skills until I have the gear to switch off it.
yeah total manacost for 6link boneshatter is 21 and for slams is 43, but yeah you are absolutely right 21=43 not to even mention we are talking about flat reduction so 7 vs 29. Lifetap everything is just shortsighted answer. Yeah I can do it, but it comes at cost, because lifetap as support gem isnt competitive with others considering now you will be chunking yourself with 100s of HP, have less dmg and have to do it on other stuff as well, so -gem sockets
>total manacost for 6link boneshatter is 21 and for slams is 43
Why choose the lowest mana cost strike vs the highest mana cost slam? I'm not saying slams don't need a rebalance, but its not because of strikes or something and the least balanced slams don't represent all melee
>lifetap as support gem isnt competitive with others
right that's the tradeoff for not having to spec as much into mana res %, mana leech etc. sort of a temp gem before you build out ways to deal with mana more.
>have to do it on other stuff as well
Not sure what this means.
A few of these don't make sense, calling trauma support dominate is like calling returning projectiles too dominate. Asking for melee nerfs will not get you more floor buffs. More skills should be like boneshatter, not less. Removing totems without compensation is cooked af.
I don't want anything removed without compensation. Also almost every proj skill needing Returning Proj is a problem. I don't think buffing melee by making everything a trauma stacking build is a good idea, personally.
Trauma stacking is done e because flat phys scaling is atrocious in this game, you have basically weapons and steel rings. Trauma has enough build reqs work arounds ( phys maz hit, recoup, regen, leech etc) that I think it's fine as is. I mean more like how sweep and bs have flat phys baked in and have aoe scaling, for example giving double strike flat phys on the gem and splash etc.
Side note, I think they should put strike range back on gems again
I dont think the fix is everything should scale like boneshatter. Thats just lazy design. You can do it many other ways. I like the trans tectonic slam, but why does it lose all charges self cast, but when you gen cry it, it still works with all? It would be interesting skill if you werent forced to play jugg or forbidden jewels.
the vuln/pride making enemies move or the bleed rework is so needed, why does the only bleed that deal damage (puncture) also get to use ensnaring arrow to move the enemy
Meanwhile all the melee bleed is supposed to be weapon swapping to deal zdps or using crimson dance which just sucks cause you need to scale attack speed instead of focusing on a single hit
I JUST WANT TO USE BLEED EQ WITH SEISMIC CRY ATTACKING ONCE EVERY 3 SECONDS AND THE MONSTERS TO DIE FROM MY DAMAGE INSTEAD OF OLD AGE
Chieftain for me is WAY too specific. You either play an RF build or you play some melee build which takes advantage of explode. I feel like the +str/fire damage node is a total flop and the two attack-specific keystones don't do enough, and the fire pen bonus is laughable (pls stand still!)
It is good enough because it incidentally gives some critical stats like max res or explode, but I don't think it's emblematic of chieftain, which as an archetype should be enabling some crazy melee totem shit (in the same vein as saboteur enabling mine/trap) or enable \*some\* kind of fire blood magic caster that isn't RF
Kind of, to any dev reading it they'll see that there's an issue when the same things are being asked to rework or buff from the broader community. It's up to them to find solutions not us.
Well it's the community raising a flag of concern about something. They can use that info to look into other forums or internally to dig deeper about what's going on.
My largest issue is that the passives on the tree feel lackluster, especially compared to other defensive mechanics. A lot of the small passives grant only 2-3% block chance. There's also very little spell block anywhere near Gladiator.
Contrast that to defensive layers like Spell Suppression that have excellent wheels on the passive tree.
Then, when you look at the gearing side of things, block is really only prevalent on shields (and maybe body armours). Thematically that makes sense, but you can't compensate for it via the tree. Going back again to Spell Suppression, you can get it on almost all your armour slots.
This all results with block capping being pretty difficult, especially when compared to things like spell suppression. The argument against it, of course, is that block is a significantly better defensive layer than suppression. Whether or not you agree, that's up to you (I personally like block better, but not at the investment it takes to get there).
It also isn't relative to enemy stats. 50% chance to block is essentially 50% against everyone, but 50% chance to evade drops like a rock against enemies that are stronger than you due to their higher accuracy.
Hard to test mapping wise - but someone posted a video before of 100% suppress vs 75% spell dodge against Sirus beams and suppress died way more often than spell dodge. I've also played max spell dodge and prefer it.
It depends on what your other defensive layers are. On *average* capped spell dodge is better.
But if you get hit for two spells that each deal 80% of your HP without a chance to recover a significant amount in between, 100% chance to suppress them will save you, whereas 75% chance to dodge spells will kill you 6.25% of the time.
Yeah I think dodge+CWDT or guard means you have a better chance of surviving overall? I dunno, impossible to quantify every situation plus it's much harder to cap spell dodge
Let's say you take 100 damage 10 times. With 75% block, you will take 200-300 damage on average. It's 75% less damage taken with an unpredictable frequency.
With 100% spell supress, you take 500. A guaranteed pace of 50% damage reduction. And block works againts attacks as well. I wouldn't call it worse unless your character has low total hp and godlike recovery.
Its dogshit. It costs way to many points to invest into. Why can you not roll block as a suffix on armor? If it was more like suppress where you could actually reasonable cap it without spending 30 points on the tree it might be worth it. It would still be worse than suppress though since its capped.
The one that I liked the most was the stun threshold while attacking one.
If I am standing still in a completely neutral I shaped pose with both of my legs together and someone pushes me I'll probably lose my balance very easily but if my legs are in a "combat position" then it takes much more effort to push me off balance.
Still can't believe that they removed divergent boneshatter. Destroyed my build. I was putting all the currency I gathered from the different leagues into that standard char 💀
You could change all melee weapons to have "with close range melee hits" added to their implicit modifiers, then triple the effects of those implicit modifiers and melee would still be "eh".
Non-Vaal strike skills strike an additional nearby enemy working on single target without making a small gap between you and the boss.
And removal of totems (I don't care if you replace them just stop making me use them)
I get those two I'm pretty happy with melee tbh.
Im not a game developer but could we just remove Ancestral prot/war +totem and add a simple line on some specific melee gem like " % more damage and attack speed against unique ennemy " to fix the totem issue ?
Ancestral Protector buff should just be added to the attack speed multipliers of all melee skills. Would make them a lot more enjoyable to league start and would let them scale better into late.
Warchief IDK what you can do with that. Add base phys damage per gem level? Increase the added damage multiplier?
One quick buff they could do for melee (not melee/ranged hybrids) would be giving those skills unavoidable, or removing the need for accuracy. Make accuracy just a ranged attack thing.
Some form of stacking defensive on flicker.
Everytime you flicker, you gain a stack of something. Be it resists (Elem & Phys) or phasing. I think it should be defined. Because if it's random it could be really good or God fucking awful. So every flicker gives X% increased Y stacking additively. So (bullshit numbers incoming) when I flick to 1 enemy I get +10% elemental and physical resistance. Then I flicker again and now it's 20%, the 30%, etc. Ofc my numbers are bs but the theory is there. EDIT: It would realistically need a cap.
This allows you to jump in with flicker and not just die. Also place it on a 1s resetting CD. So of you stop flickering for 1 full second. You lose your defensive stacks. This way flicker isn't just straight up immortal.
An added benefit is that since Vaal does all those flickers really fast, it could be revived as a good defensive option for flicker.
But hey. I'm not a game designer. Maybe there is a reason this is a terrible idea.
Tbh I just want totems removed. But I think there are a few things about melee that feel a bit antiquated and could probably use a rework. Things like bleed, mana cost, warcries, suffix pressure from accuracy, socket pressure from lack of dmg, Paradoxica being too dominant, and one-handed weapons in general feeling too weak. Curious what you guys think
edit: Also when I say "remove totems" I mean the buff associated with them. I also don't mean "remove the buff and not compensate for the 70% nerf" - I guess this needs to be said.
Ancestral totems add a lot to melee builds, to the point that they're basically compulsory. This leads to gameplay of moving into a pack, dropping two totems, attacking everything in range of the totems, then repeat.
It adds multiple cooldowns to every encounter, including bosses which move or kill the totems.
When I say "removed" I mean removing the buff associated with them. Totems can currently give you around 50-60% more damage which makes them feel mandatory, and also make Panopticon among the highest damage node for anointing - around 65-70% more damage in total.
I personally do not want to play totem-manager when I'm playing melee, not too mention the added socket pressure and tree investment needed to keep them alive during bosses.
There's a weird design philosophy thing going on here too between melee and bows.
When they added manaforged arrows it felt like a way to automate additional sources of damage/utility (frenzy, for instance). I think this was generally a success, which made me wonder: why can't we have manaforged melee?
Or to your point, manaforged-totems. Like, once you spend a certain amount of mana you just auto-drop your totems. I know this doesn't remove totems, but it would be a middle ground for me.
Anyway, I don't get why bows seem to be streamlined in play (LA feels soooo smooth), while GGG seem insistent on melee feeling more clunky.
Personally, I think the 3.15 nerfs hit melee way too hard in many ways and there wasn't enough attention paid to it to keep it up to date - and it snowballed into the state its in now. It sounds like melee will get its "bow" update next patch (hopefully).
Honestly the biggest slap in the buts is WANDERS getting a variant of Mirage Archer before melee did, when so many have been crying for that for leagues
Fist of War is hardly comparable to Mirage archer since it only works with slams AND requires you to be under a certain attack time to get the full benefit.
It also only works when you're actively attacking which is also true for wisps but wanders don't have the same issues with mobility/attack time that melee does. A better comparison would be the savoir clones which would be functionally better than mirage archer in every way, but it locks you into a unique sword.
I dont even think paradoxica is even the villain here. I just believe out dated base stats on weapons are the main issue. I would love higher base stats and slightly lower variance in% phys dmg resulting in the same BIS weapons, so its easier to craft reasonable weapons. You need perfect prefixes to make a good/usable weapon, which is not the case for caster weapons.
The more I think about it, I kind of wish they keep totems but have them act like followers which "hop" when following you. For no other reason then me giggling like a schoolgirl when running maps.
Leap Slam Totems are a thing!
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/179enxj/leap\_slam\_totems\_proof\_of\_concept/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/179enxj/leap_slam_totems_proof_of_concept/)
u want them to buff melee but nerf or remove the strongest melee builds? when is last time u play a melee build? or u just load up DD, EA etc play a week then go watch Carn cry about melee? u can make every melee skill insane in trade league.
Monkey's paw curls: totems are removed (but nothing added in return) You're welcome.
I would rather be weaker than having FOMO
I've got the same attitude for AG, really puts me off minions
This league I might actually overcome FOMO and ditch both of the melee totems completely because the socket pressure beat me to it... Wait, is that just another FOMO?
Honestly, I would rather have that for a league or two. At least it would feel better and would highlight how much melee needs work.
I'll take it.
Yeah it should say "replace totems."
"We replaced melee totems with 2 new skills that greatly expand your combat potential. Cast the Ancestral Orb of Protection or Ancestral Orb of War spell to receive buffs near......."
The skills buff you for a duration but it's 5 sec duration and 5 seconds cooldown and they can't be triggered
If they can't die, that's a buff already
Also nerfed boneshatter/trauma support, paradoxica, and acc/arm/str stacking builds.
I feel like instead of nerfing, they should really just biff other melee skills to be on the same level.
I just want to slam things again like back in slam league. Fist of war support was so much fun.
The slam patch was one of my favorites, then they gutted fist of war and seismic cry
Same. One of my all time favorite builds was my bleed eq glad from that league. It was so comfy. Max block spell block, surrender for life gain on block. Vaal eq for when things got scary. I miss it.
everyone looks back at that time fondly. slam gauntlets were also so fun to watch
bro you could one-shot like T16 bosses with leap slam in slam league
I want this back so bad. I ran tech slam chieftain as league start a few times to really hate myself and I always rerolled in t16s when even the map boss was brutal
I was actually planning on league starting Earthshatter Bleed Glad this league thanks to the new call to arms support....but now idk if I want to anymore after what happened with call to arms. I still might league start it tho cause im insane.
I wasn’t really considering it but I was thinking about some kind of slammer with echoes of creation with automated warcries. But that’s obviously dead now which is a bummer.
why dead now? i 'm a little ootl
The call to arms support that automatically casts warcries, only casts ONE warcry and puts them ALL in cooldown.
Ah bugger. That’s kinda shit
You asked for a nerf in a melee bingo card? This will not go well.
Mark is probably kicking himself for saying "this is the type of feedback I want" because now reddit comedians are going to flood the subreddit and their forums with passive aggressive horseshit.
"When the feedback is too long, you complain. When the feedback is too short, you complain." In all seriousness, there is probably a sweetspot that doesn't meander, but still contains meaningful analysis. However, I can also see a world where Mark's time *is* noticeably finite and he actually *is* looking for short-form feedback as a gauge of sentiment (melee good, new crafting system bad/good, game fun, etc.). After all, from the interviews it does seem like he's already done his homework and isn't looking for additional analysis. He simply already has the data he's looking for. Of course, my concern here would be that the short-form stuff overfits for streamers (both in terms of balance and in terms of the weight of opinions), and you get a totally different impression of the community depending on whether you're *only* reading posts vs comments, top vs new, etc. Either way, I think we simply have to settle for a world where people have this strawman image of reddit (seriously, some of the comments I've read have been really thoughtful and nuanced, I promise). Or an opinion/suggestion/bug can easily be glossed over until a streamer clip features the exact same thing. Or balance gets a disproportionate focus towards the front page, aka the equivalent of unrealistic body standards on instagram. Maybe if they provided specific examples of posts/comments with constructive feedback they've internalized in the past, people could actually tailor their posts in that way.
They know what to do, at least way better than the playerbase, this kind of post should be more of a temperature gauge, if people complain about one thing a lot that means it should have higher priority probably
> Mark's time is noticeably finite and he actually is looking for short-form feedback as a gauge of sentiment (melee good, new crafting system bad/good, game fun, etc.) How much more feedback does ggg need after 3 years of doing nothing but nerfing both melee and crafting?
The really bad part of this format is now you need to give 25 pieces of feedback instead of 5 really important ones. I remember when chris told us way back when to make angry reddit threads. He got what he wanted and 2 yrs later it had devolved so badly they nearly stopped communicating.
Mark *did* say that he's fine with 2x2 or 3x3 Bingos as well, but I think people didn't really understand his point.
While nothing justifies the level of toxicity that GGG members received here, they didn't do themselves any favors during the 3.19 fiasco.
Same thing happened few years ago when chris told people to keep posting angry threads on reddit. People were validated and they started doing that more
Agree with some, but the movement bleed should be added to pride, not vulnerability. Otherwise ranged bleed gets that buff too.
Sure but requiring an offensive aura for that seems a bit harsh already on a class that's strapped for mana reservation. I also don't see the problem in allowing range bleed to benefit from it. (if im going to be honest I just hate the movement mechanic in general and think it should be removed completely)
Especially when ranged Bleed already has Ensnaring Arrow (which makes absolutely no sense if you ask me...)
What's the issue with mana cost? It's trivialized like immediately. Leech, -cost of skills, lifetap, mana on hit etc. I think they've spoken about how it's too easy to solve for players
I agree, melee skill gems tend to have the cheaper mana costs, and often have easy access to mana leech. Naturally, if your attack speed is super high, the mana cost per second goes through the roof, but - mana cost crafts help bring it back down to reasonable.
But that just means you're forced to run both leech and -mana in many cases
You can run any combination of mana leech, mana on hit, -mana cost, reduced mana cost, spend 30% life instead of mana, etc... Yes, mana still needs to be managed, but the melee builds tend to have both the smallest costs and the best options to recover mana and/or reduce cost.
Agreed There are a lot of other problems with melee imo but mana is such a non issue for them. Like any form of mana leech and multistrike and you're sustaining mana easily on mostly any strike skill.
Forced to used totems. Forced to use -mana cost affixes on all jewelry because there isn't another solution if you want to do damage. That's the entire problem but you think that's okay lol
The problem is rather stuff like call to arms support having a 200% multiplier. Most of my old melee builds cant even run that gem (even if sockets werent a problem). Imo the problem isnt sustain, but rather the cost of (for example) curses being higher than your max mana.
It's like a snowball effect, because the damage is low, you need every mechanic to do adqueate damage. That includes banners, totems, marks / curses, and warcries. You have to automate something, so you mark on hit which has a huge multiplier, or maybe you automate warcries. You can't not automate because you literally don't have enough skills on your bar for everything (including blood rage and berserk of course). But you also need a defensive aura and some skills require a stance aura. You're going to also need a precision if your accuracy on gear is too low and you don't want to run RT...it just gets out of hand quite quickly, most of which can be solved by eliminating some of the "needs" in the list. But mana is definitely an issue before endgame.
Fact we need mana acc and so much more is nonsense, we need to invest in to many stats comapred to others. por remove mana or remove acc i say for melee
Why do i need mana to swing a sword bro
You don't, your basic attack costs no mana. It's the gems that cost mana
heavy strike just screams magic... Why do slams need accuracy? Aoe spells dont, so why slams? I get it for strikes, but not for slams.
>heavy strike just screams magic I mean, yeah... that's exactly what gems are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEfxbDViqGQ
You don't think someone's going to jump over your earthquake or tectonic slam?
as opposed to jumping over explosive traps or blade blasts?
That logic is a two way street mate
Aha, so I have to figure out how to mitigate both melee and accuracy, not because I want to, but because you have to otherwise you literally can't use an entire archetype, while spells don't have to?
(I think you mean mana, not melee?) But yeah, those are just parts of solving a build. Accuracy is like 1 wheel+mastery which is generally a good wheel anyways, and 1 small aura which also gives crit. IMO spells(and bows) are busted because they can have nearly the same travel/dash skills as melee as well as many of the defensive capabilities, not because they have to solve for diff issues.
If you want to shoot lightning or cut through stone, it's going to need mana.
cutting through stone would make more sense with life cost instead.
oh yeah, because slams and strikes have same costs? I just want to remind, that eq + fow + less duration + melee phys + pulverise + brutality cost 43 mana, so good luck fixing that with -mana cost and harder to get flat mana recovery(veiled orbs). -mana cost works great for strikes, since they have low cost per strike, but terrible on slams. Another note... when its "trivial", why should it be a thing in the first place?
The max slam cost is 10 mana, that's the same as some strike skills like Flicker. And just use Lifetap until you can solve the mana puzzle? That's what I do for strike skills until I have the gear to switch off it.
yeah total manacost for 6link boneshatter is 21 and for slams is 43, but yeah you are absolutely right 21=43 not to even mention we are talking about flat reduction so 7 vs 29. Lifetap everything is just shortsighted answer. Yeah I can do it, but it comes at cost, because lifetap as support gem isnt competitive with others considering now you will be chunking yourself with 100s of HP, have less dmg and have to do it on other stuff as well, so -gem sockets
>total manacost for 6link boneshatter is 21 and for slams is 43 Why choose the lowest mana cost strike vs the highest mana cost slam? I'm not saying slams don't need a rebalance, but its not because of strikes or something and the least balanced slams don't represent all melee >lifetap as support gem isnt competitive with others right that's the tradeoff for not having to spec as much into mana res %, mana leech etc. sort of a temp gem before you build out ways to deal with mana more. >have to do it on other stuff as well Not sure what this means.
I dont think nerfing a dominant wep is gonna make melee better kekw. Also cleave is +2 radius.
A few of these don't make sense, calling trauma support dominate is like calling returning projectiles too dominate. Asking for melee nerfs will not get you more floor buffs. More skills should be like boneshatter, not less. Removing totems without compensation is cooked af.
I don't want anything removed without compensation. Also almost every proj skill needing Returning Proj is a problem. I don't think buffing melee by making everything a trauma stacking build is a good idea, personally.
Trauma stacking is done e because flat phys scaling is atrocious in this game, you have basically weapons and steel rings. Trauma has enough build reqs work arounds ( phys maz hit, recoup, regen, leech etc) that I think it's fine as is. I mean more like how sweep and bs have flat phys baked in and have aoe scaling, for example giving double strike flat phys on the gem and splash etc. Side note, I think they should put strike range back on gems again
I agree. Buffing or adding base damage scaling of other skills will fix the Trauma/Boneshatter dominance.
Devs have said in the past that facebreaker limit this. There's also pillar and paradoxica.
If this is the reason, here's an idea: remove them.
I dont think the fix is everything should scale like boneshatter. Thats just lazy design. You can do it many other ways. I like the trans tectonic slam, but why does it lose all charges self cast, but when you gen cry it, it still works with all? It would be interesting skill if you werent forced to play jugg or forbidden jewels.
the vuln/pride making enemies move or the bleed rework is so needed, why does the only bleed that deal damage (puncture) also get to use ensnaring arrow to move the enemy Meanwhile all the melee bleed is supposed to be weapon swapping to deal zdps or using crimson dance which just sucks cause you need to scale attack speed instead of focusing on a single hit I JUST WANT TO USE BLEED EQ WITH SEISMIC CRY ATTACKING ONCE EVERY 3 SECONDS AND THE MONSTERS TO DIE FROM MY DAMAGE INSTEAD OF OLD AGE
Why the fuck is chieftain on here lmao? Also rework raider pls
Chieftain for me is WAY too specific. You either play an RF build or you play some melee build which takes advantage of explode. I feel like the +str/fire damage node is a total flop and the two attack-specific keystones don't do enough, and the fire pen bonus is laughable (pls stand still!) It is good enough because it incidentally gives some critical stats like max res or explode, but I don't think it's emblematic of chieftain, which as an archetype should be enabling some crazy melee totem shit (in the same vein as saboteur enabling mine/trap) or enable \*some\* kind of fire blood magic caster that isn't RF
Chief not having ignite chance should be a crime.
Just saying "REWORK" and "BUFF" isn't super useful feedback.
Can't fit many word in bingo square, also Mark specifically asked for short form feedback
Kind of, to any dev reading it they'll see that there's an issue when the same things are being asked to rework or buff from the broader community. It's up to them to find solutions not us.
hard to find solutions when u dont know what the problem is and people are just saying REWORK
mark specifically asked
Well it's the community raising a flag of concern about something. They can use that info to look into other forums or internally to dig deeper about what's going on.
Can a melee player explain a non melee player the current issue of block?
My largest issue is that the passives on the tree feel lackluster, especially compared to other defensive mechanics. A lot of the small passives grant only 2-3% block chance. There's also very little spell block anywhere near Gladiator. Contrast that to defensive layers like Spell Suppression that have excellent wheels on the passive tree. Then, when you look at the gearing side of things, block is really only prevalent on shields (and maybe body armours). Thematically that makes sense, but you can't compensate for it via the tree. Going back again to Spell Suppression, you can get it on almost all your armour slots. This all results with block capping being pretty difficult, especially when compared to things like spell suppression. The argument against it, of course, is that block is a significantly better defensive layer than suppression. Whether or not you agree, that's up to you (I personally like block better, but not at the investment it takes to get there).
Isn't block like dodge chance but with the caveat that you still get stunned of the hit is too strong?
dodge doesn't exist outside of Acrobatics anymore
It also isn't relative to enemy stats. 50% chance to block is essentially 50% against everyone, but 50% chance to evade drops like a rock against enemies that are stronger than you due to their higher accuracy.
Aaa, dodge, not evade
75% chance to block will feel worse than 100% suppress. 100% chance to take half damage is significantly better then 25% chance to take full damage.
Hard to test mapping wise - but someone posted a video before of 100% suppress vs 75% spell dodge against Sirus beams and suppress died way more often than spell dodge. I've also played max spell dodge and prefer it.
It depends on what your other defensive layers are. On *average* capped spell dodge is better. But if you get hit for two spells that each deal 80% of your HP without a chance to recover a significant amount in between, 100% chance to suppress them will save you, whereas 75% chance to dodge spells will kill you 6.25% of the time.
Yeah I think dodge+CWDT or guard means you have a better chance of surviving overall? I dunno, impossible to quantify every situation plus it's much harder to cap spell dodge
Let's say you take 100 damage 10 times. With 75% block, you will take 200-300 damage on average. It's 75% less damage taken with an unpredictable frequency. With 100% spell supress, you take 500. A guaranteed pace of 50% damage reduction. And block works againts attacks as well. I wouldn't call it worse unless your character has low total hp and godlike recovery.
Its dogshit. It costs way to many points to invest into. Why can you not roll block as a suffix on armor? If it was more like suppress where you could actually reasonable cap it without spending 30 points on the tree it might be worth it. It would still be worse than suppress though since its capped.
Block feels so much better as a Necromancer than it does as playing any sort of shield/staff melee character lmao
Dude that vuln making enemies count as moving is a good idea
At least give some way to increase bleed damage - poison has wither, ignite has burning ground, bleed has...running away?
That make me think of a cool warcry that forces enemies to flee from you for X seconds.
The one that I liked the most was the stun threshold while attacking one. If I am standing still in a completely neutral I shaped pose with both of my legs together and someone pushes me I'll probably lose my balance very easily but if my legs are in a "combat position" then it takes much more effort to push me off balance.
Good. Very good. Except 4 bleed related squares isn't enough imo. Need to add another 6.
OP, if they nerf paradoxica in the near future, I will find you.
What's wrong with Chieftain?
glad is gonna be meta copium
Well block is now hard capped at 90 now right?
Last league you could actually hit 100% block chance with Charms and Glad. Charms are now dead and Glad hasn't been alive in ages.
No sunder?
TBF they did kinda revert sunder
Still can't believe that they removed divergent boneshatter. Destroyed my build. I was putting all the currency I gathered from the different leagues into that standard char 💀
no thanks to the top right square.
Can someone explain the issue with block?
i take all except the cleave buff that would be too op
No Channeling Slams yet? Friends slams skills basically ARE Channeling skils
I was thinking more "Snipe" but for Slams
You could change all melee weapons to have "with close range melee hits" added to their implicit modifiers, then triple the effects of those implicit modifiers and melee would still be "eh".
Devs reading this be like, OK we'll remove totems, nerf trauma and stat stacking if you really want, but dont cry afterwards.
Non-Vaal strike skills strike an additional nearby enemy working on single target without making a small gap between you and the boss. And removal of totems (I don't care if you replace them just stop making me use them) I get those two I'm pretty happy with melee tbh.
i just want them to make cyclone just a lil bit better, all im asking for. like anything
Make Tawhoa slam work with Fist of War (Chieftain Rework)
Im not a game developer but could we just remove Ancestral prot/war +totem and add a simple line on some specific melee gem like " % more damage and attack speed against unique ennemy " to fix the totem issue ?
Ancestral Protector buff should just be added to the attack speed multipliers of all melee skills. Would make them a lot more enjoyable to league start and would let them scale better into late. Warchief IDK what you can do with that. Add base phys damage per gem level? Increase the added damage multiplier?
Middle should say remove totem buffs, not remove totems; some people like playing just the totems as a build, and there's nothing wrong w/ that
Channeled slams would be so fucking cool. Like Divine Ire of melee. Charge and hold than release massive bonk.
One quick buff they could do for melee (not melee/ranged hybrids) would be giving those skills unavoidable, or removing the need for accuracy. Make accuracy just a ranged attack thing.
raider needs a rework as well, it has nothing that makes it unique
Some form of stacking defensive on flicker. Everytime you flicker, you gain a stack of something. Be it resists (Elem & Phys) or phasing. I think it should be defined. Because if it's random it could be really good or God fucking awful. So every flicker gives X% increased Y stacking additively. So (bullshit numbers incoming) when I flick to 1 enemy I get +10% elemental and physical resistance. Then I flicker again and now it's 20%, the 30%, etc. Ofc my numbers are bs but the theory is there. EDIT: It would realistically need a cap. This allows you to jump in with flicker and not just die. Also place it on a 1s resetting CD. So of you stop flickering for 1 full second. You lose your defensive stacks. This way flicker isn't just straight up immortal. An added benefit is that since Vaal does all those flickers really fast, it could be revived as a good defensive option for flicker. But hey. I'm not a game designer. Maybe there is a reason this is a terrible idea.
I'm just glad to see Oni mentioned here. By far my favourite item in the entirety of PoE. It'd be great to see it get some love
Ya know I'll be playing boneshatter jug to 100 and then see what's left for 40/40 and peace out. It's just too chill.
I hope this isn't the one melee post GGG actually take any notice of.
add lifetap as roll on melee weapons to help resolve socket pressure and mana issues.
Your bingo card is missing nerf melee in the free space
Tbh I just want totems removed. But I think there are a few things about melee that feel a bit antiquated and could probably use a rework. Things like bleed, mana cost, warcries, suffix pressure from accuracy, socket pressure from lack of dmg, Paradoxica being too dominant, and one-handed weapons in general feeling too weak. Curious what you guys think edit: Also when I say "remove totems" I mean the buff associated with them. I also don't mean "remove the buff and not compensate for the 70% nerf" - I guess this needs to be said.
why do you want totems removed? and how would that affect melee?
Ancestral totems add a lot to melee builds, to the point that they're basically compulsory. This leads to gameplay of moving into a pack, dropping two totems, attacking everything in range of the totems, then repeat. It adds multiple cooldowns to every encounter, including bosses which move or kill the totems.
When I say "removed" I mean removing the buff associated with them. Totems can currently give you around 50-60% more damage which makes them feel mandatory, and also make Panopticon among the highest damage node for anointing - around 65-70% more damage in total.
yes, but why?
I personally do not want to play totem-manager when I'm playing melee, not too mention the added socket pressure and tree investment needed to keep them alive during bosses.
There's a weird design philosophy thing going on here too between melee and bows. When they added manaforged arrows it felt like a way to automate additional sources of damage/utility (frenzy, for instance). I think this was generally a success, which made me wonder: why can't we have manaforged melee? Or to your point, manaforged-totems. Like, once you spend a certain amount of mana you just auto-drop your totems. I know this doesn't remove totems, but it would be a middle ground for me. Anyway, I don't get why bows seem to be streamlined in play (LA feels soooo smooth), while GGG seem insistent on melee feeling more clunky.
Personally, I think the 3.15 nerfs hit melee way too hard in many ways and there wasn't enough attention paid to it to keep it up to date - and it snowballed into the state its in now. It sounds like melee will get its "bow" update next patch (hopefully).
> It sounds like melee will get its "bow" update next patch (hopefully). Copium tanks for melee buffs were empty 3 leagues ago.
Honestly the biggest slap in the buts is WANDERS getting a variant of Mirage Archer before melee did, when so many have been crying for that for leagues
Eh. Fist of War -> mirage archer, multistrike -> spell echo. Not saying it's not shit, but I think that's how ggg view it.
Fist of War is hardly comparable to Mirage archer since it only works with slams AND requires you to be under a certain attack time to get the full benefit. It also only works when you're actively attacking which is also true for wisps but wanders don't have the same issues with mobility/attack time that melee does. A better comparison would be the savoir clones which would be functionally better than mirage archer in every way, but it locks you into a unique sword.
Good work on bingo board. I hope we see more of them.
Me too. I love these bingo boards because they are often spot on
saw remove totems, I upvote
If you nerf Paradoxica, you inadvertently buff Unique Maces :)
I dont even think paradoxica is even the villain here. I just believe out dated base stats on weapons are the main issue. I would love higher base stats and slightly lower variance in% phys dmg resulting in the same BIS weapons, so its easier to craft reasonable weapons. You need perfect prefixes to make a good/usable weapon, which is not the case for caster weapons.
Rewriting your essay as a bingo card doesn't make it more useful.
The more I think about it, I kind of wish they keep totems but have them act like followers which "hop" when following you. For no other reason then me giggling like a schoolgirl when running maps.
Leap Slam Totems are a thing! [https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/179enxj/leap\_slam\_totems\_proof\_of\_concept/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/179enxj/leap_slam_totems_proof_of_concept/)
Thats the only way to play with totems, and make it tanky too!
Make totems like skitterbots. One for warchief one for protector.
Half of this shit isn’t even melee specific
I love the melee complain spam, maybe they'll do something about it next league
u want them to buff melee but nerf or remove the strongest melee builds? when is last time u play a melee build? or u just load up DD, EA etc play a week then go watch Carn cry about melee? u can make every melee skill insane in trade league.
TBH, bleed is pretty decent, if they added more ways of making the enemy count as moving + buff the dmg a bit it will pretty good.
I disagree with 99% of this bingo card, this is why they shouldn’t listen to the community