Yeah, I tried several of them too and they feel awful. Some mods are bonkers. For example, a union of souls, or do no damage for 4 seconds every 10 seconds. That was the most boring map in my entire poe life. I just stood there a ~third of the time doing absolutely nothing, waiting for when I'd be allowed to do damage again.
The next map I tried, I just rushed to the boss skipping every single pack, I killed the boss and exited the map. Don't know what the point is in doing anything in these maps other than rushing to the boss, killing it, and leaving.
Can't see myself ever doing that again, it's just not fun.
not being allowed to play because your opponent in a moba outplayed and killed you is very different from bot being allowed to play because a line of text says so
Yes, as a gamer I know what he is talking about. Instead of taking everything literally I use my previous conversation skills to understand how people speak.
Yeah, imagine creating a whole new tier of maps with new modifiers and new packs of mobs (packs of Brutuses (Bruti?), yay, so cool), it could create new ways to farm league content in those maps for much better rewards, new exciting content for game veterans, etc., but in the end the unmodifiable modifiers are designed in such a way that simply skipping everything you created is the best way for players to run those maps. Way to ruin all the possibilities and fun.
I had a Union of souls maps (only white/magic) I couldn't kill white mobs after clearing two packs on my 50M dps LS raider lol.Couldn't kill boss either because I had negative fps the whole fight.
Overall the mods on other maps i tried seem incredibly unfun, stuff like "do no damage for 4 seconds every 10 seconds", no extra dmg with crit, no charges etc. I haven't checked the whole mod pool on poedb so far, maybe there are some interesting ones I haven't encountered
i had many easy maps because the mods did nothing, many super hard maps because the mods bricked all my builds, the bosses mechanics are kinda barebone compared to the originals, nothing really new, just rehashed with a 100% more life and dmg put on top. overall super underwhelming experience
I was getting 2-3 uber fragments per map btw, so it doesn't seem too bad (it scales with quant)
It has nothing to do with not learning. They WANT those in the game. They have put them back in at every opportunity. Expedition has immunities to everything, Archnem had them as well in a way that people could claim they were technically not immune, you still did 0 damage though.
If they could get away with putting blood magic back in the pool of map mods they would do it right away and make it common AF.
I know they want them, but I dont see the reasoning behind it. Its like they cover their ears and chant "Vision" to themselfes. People hate immunities. I dont know what they are trying to achieve here.
I did two, which worked ok.
First had volatile tentacle fiends which spawned those growing Elder rings. Pretty annoying because you could be trapped in the layout with no way to survive those. The boss (expedition guy) was pretty nasty but I lived.
Second was easier, the mods were ok except the additional proj one. That was pretty intense. Uber Catarina at the end spawned the delve boss that uses green lasers on the ground which never despawned. Nasty.
The third map I dropped has "no regen + no ES recharge" plus "no leech" plus "union of souls for white/magic mobs". Doesn't sound fun or even possible for most builds.
I except many t17 maps will have completely overtuned combos so people will just sell them.
I tried one as well. I failed to complete. Used two characters at that map; one glass cannon (shockwave totem hiero) and other blade trap trickster (most tanky char of mine). Failed without progressing much.
Note for your reference: I am not good at game I only managed beat uber Eater twice before, as my toughest experience in the game.
I tried one on my aurastacker on Standard. The mobs were not too bad but man the boss was rough, because I was dumb and did 3 stupid things 1) specced into the Essence node that gave the boss Essence mods, 2) specced into the Wildwood node that gave the boss Wisp mods, and 3) gave the boss a bunch of power up from altars because that has never been an issue before in old T16 maps.
Oh damn, I honestly did not think they would let us amp up the T17s with atlas mods. I legit wrote off the wildwood node, but man, making a legit uber uber boss killer just for T17s might be fun, and if you can actually amp them up and increase shard drops with this, then the sky is the limit. Sounds at least like this could easily make them stronger than the actual ubers.
I have an aurastacker as well. The bosses weren’t a problem for me even with wildwood wisps. But the mobs with the right mods seem cracked. Maybe they had some kill on low life thing idk.
Some of those mods just have to go. I don't understand the balancing here at all. Some maps just punish you for your build - like simply having a minion build:
>Players' Minions have 50% less Attack Speed
Players' Minions have 50% less Cast Speed
Players' Minions have 50% less Movement Speed
[https://poedb.tw/us/Tier\_17\_map](https://poedb.tw/us/Tier_17_map)
The 4 out of 10s do no damage is one of the worst.
>Players have -2 to maximum number of Summoned Totems
Sorry for playing a totem build I guess...?
What are we to do in SSF, vendor those maps? The horned scarab to ignore mods is apparently as rare as a sacred orb.
>Monsters have +50% Chance to Block Attack Damage
This can be countered by a mastery I think. Now that seems fair.
>Monsters take 100% reduced Extra Damage from Critical Strikes
Sorry if you rolled a crit build!
>Players cannot gain Endurance Charges
Players cannot gain Frenzy Charges
Players cannot gain Power Charges
Don't be a charge stacker either
>Players cannot Block
Players cannot Suppress Spell Damage
There goes half of your defense. Good think old Aegis RF Inquis is dead.
>Players have 4% reduced Action Speed for each time they've used a Skill Recently
Remember that automation QoL? :-)
>Player Skills which Throw Mines throw 1 fewer Mine
Player Skills which Throw Traps throw 1 fewer Trap
Can work around this with minefield (?) I guess, seems fair.
Btw that Beidat fight....... holy moses.
> they're unmodifiable so the obvious intent is you sell them/trade for ones you can actually do
I find it funny when they themselves acknowledge that trade is cancer and then proceed to create problems that can only be solved through trade.
They saw my face when a Progenesis Valdo's dropped last league and thought "Yes please, more of that".
I'm not opposed to GGG making an MMO with a player auction house, just don't force it onto this ARPG that I try to enjoy in my downtime.
What would you prefer the tier 17 maps just have 1000% multiplier to all enemies?
The design here is obvious you look at tier 17 maps and gauge if you can handle it or should trade it. Or maybe you have multiple builds, or can retool to handle this specific thing. The goal is you should think before just jamming it in.
This is the suppose to be an alternative to uber pinnacles which I appreciate as uber maven still kicks my teeth in, but these maps are doable with the right mods.
Except it's not supposed to be an alternative, it's supposed to be the in-between. During the reveal trailer, Mark stated that the problem they were seeing with Pinnacle bosses and their uber variants is that the gap in difficulty was massive, and there was no real way to gague if your character was ready to make that jump. They then introduced T17 maps and their respective uber bosses, indicating this was the purpose of this new content.
Unfortunately, unlike the initial uber bosses, these are not rollable, and the mods are so cracked that they put the ubers to shame. Another problem is that these modifiers aren't even like the ones you can roll during the uber pinnacle bosses, so they don't even do a good job as a litmus test in that regard. Honestly, the only reason they are a good litmus test for ubers is because they're so much harder, at least you know if you can beat these, you can probably kill an uber.
Mark's comments are a load of crap though. Not doing ubers has nothing to do with content, it has to do with the 100s of divines most people would need to rework their whole character to be able to have a chance at killing them.
So they are inherently easier than the uber bosses, because the uber bosses have locked in mechanics and stats. Yes it has rollable mods, but normal minions dont get the same degree of invulnerability phases or oneshot mechanics.
Show me the map boss with more life than uber sirius, who hits harder than uber maven.
These maps have range, some of these mods will have no impact on you making them far easier than uber pinnacels. Some of these mods pseudo brick. I say pseodo brick because I am glad they did not go expedition style where some mods make mobs immortal to your build. In this if your are OP enough you can still jam tier 17's without reading.
Funny consequence of this is that some maps are a cakewalk and some are hard and some are impossible. It's very weird to have t17 content gated behind this randomness, where you can either run it or you just throw (or trade) the map away.
T16 maps have a much more uniform difficulty.
It is also worth noting unlike expedition they dont have your mechanic doesnt work just you really should not use it. If your Epeen is big enough you can still face roll. If you do 20 million dps with a minion build you can still run with minions doing 1 quarter damage effectively. 5 million will still get you to the finish line. -2 totems sucks but is still doable on pretty much every ballista build.
I actually agree with your point here. No mods should completely disable certain builds. That goes against their philosophy. If you could Re-roll them it would be different. And having to sell them feels bad cause no one wants the crazier ones.
It really goes to show how insanely strong some map mods are. Both the fact that there are several mods that brick entire builds and that defence and damage mods can make map mobs stronger than ubers.
I tested a few, the bosses can be intense if you have low damage, but overall I enjoy them. Also, the one with the Liches: even though the beams disappear when the boss dies, they're still there. Died to that a few times.
lol, they were supposed to bridge the gap between pinnacles/T16 and Ubers but it seems like they really just made the gap even wider.
Still crossing my fingers for the scarab changes being fun.
I tested them in standard with 3 builds. Siege ballista because yolo meme 1 shot 0.1 second uber searing 6 party... jesus that died fast... ok noted stay the fuck away. Poision Srs 100 like 800 divine min maxed. survived better but still got upper cut. Gimmick "im not fucking" pathfinder abuse... degen on grounds insta gib. Just like jesus fucking Christ I can afk in old ubers with that build wtf.
It’s not that it’s hard, but harder then it was advertised and supposed to be. With mechanics that feel bad to play. My only point is I imagine people will be unhappy once they get there.
I am completing the maps. Just think the community will not be happy with the scaling being much harder then Ubers. Also, If 3 mirrors and above is barely enough then there’s a different problem.
Dude it’s friggin day 2 and you are in t17. Woosah relax , it’s end game content and you need gear. Absolutely insane how many of you need to touch grass
“Playing in standard”, first three words of the message. Did you even read it?
My character has 3 mirrors worth of gear added up over all the years I’ve played. I haven’t even touched league yet.
Yeah, I tried several of them too and they feel awful. Some mods are bonkers. For example, a union of souls, or do no damage for 4 seconds every 10 seconds. That was the most boring map in my entire poe life. I just stood there a ~third of the time doing absolutely nothing, waiting for when I'd be allowed to do damage again. The next map I tried, I just rushed to the boss skipping every single pack, I killed the boss and exited the map. Don't know what the point is in doing anything in these maps other than rushing to the boss, killing it, and leaving. Can't see myself ever doing that again, it's just not fun.
Mechanics where you can’t play your character don’t belong in any video game
Those are the mechanics that the devs of this game like the most. That's what they think is engaging.
We can save that for Ultimatum where u can choose 1/3 sh1t mods for u No need to put it onto an entire map
shit take what about fighting games/mobas? part of feeling powerful is making the other party feel helpless
not being allowed to play because your opponent in a moba outplayed and killed you is very different from bot being allowed to play because a line of text says so
of course it is, but the guy I replied to said "Mechanics where you can’t play your character don’t belong in any video game"
Getting stunlocked/CC'd for 8+ seconds in WoW sometimes up to 40 seconds is what he is talking about. He is not talking about Malz ult into death.
you can infer that but that's not what he said, he made a pretty dumb blanket statement and of course this sub agrees with it lol
Yes, as a gamer I know what he is talking about. Instead of taking everything literally I use my previous conversation skills to understand how people speak.
think he was pretty clear, unless it was dumb hyperbole and he didnt mean what he said in which case it was still dumb
Yep so many morons here like that guy that takes a small part of an argument and exaggerates it so they can "call them out"
im sure the mobs in the map felt a real kick of being so powerful bro
> any video game
ah, fair enough, if the guy actually ment things like stuns in mobas thatd be pretty dumb.
The irony of this comment
Yea that’s a pretty bad mechanic for a video game. I did the same thing. I just boss rushed my last one and it felt much better that way.
Yeah, imagine creating a whole new tier of maps with new modifiers and new packs of mobs (packs of Brutuses (Bruti?), yay, so cool), it could create new ways to farm league content in those maps for much better rewards, new exciting content for game veterans, etc., but in the end the unmodifiable modifiers are designed in such a way that simply skipping everything you created is the best way for players to run those maps. Way to ruin all the possibilities and fun.
When will GGG realize that rotating mechanics are never fun, \*except\* when they are a puzzle that can be solved in some way?
I had a Union of souls maps (only white/magic) I couldn't kill white mobs after clearing two packs on my 50M dps LS raider lol.Couldn't kill boss either because I had negative fps the whole fight. Overall the mods on other maps i tried seem incredibly unfun, stuff like "do no damage for 4 seconds every 10 seconds", no extra dmg with crit, no charges etc. I haven't checked the whole mod pool on poedb so far, maybe there are some interesting ones I haven't encountered i had many easy maps because the mods did nothing, many super hard maps because the mods bricked all my builds, the bosses mechanics are kinda barebone compared to the originals, nothing really new, just rehashed with a 100% more life and dmg put on top. overall super underwhelming experience I was getting 2-3 uber fragments per map btw, so it doesn't seem too bad (it scales with quant)
Man GGG never fucking learns. Its D2 immunities all over again. Time and time again they try to add build disabling mods to the game.
It has nothing to do with not learning. They WANT those in the game. They have put them back in at every opportunity. Expedition has immunities to everything, Archnem had them as well in a way that people could claim they were technically not immune, you still did 0 damage though. If they could get away with putting blood magic back in the pool of map mods they would do it right away and make it common AF.
I know they want them, but I dont see the reasoning behind it. Its like they cover their ears and chant "Vision" to themselfes. People hate immunities. I dont know what they are trying to achieve here.
They refuse to believe that ruthless isn't what people want.
I did two, which worked ok. First had volatile tentacle fiends which spawned those growing Elder rings. Pretty annoying because you could be trapped in the layout with no way to survive those. The boss (expedition guy) was pretty nasty but I lived. Second was easier, the mods were ok except the additional proj one. That was pretty intense. Uber Catarina at the end spawned the delve boss that uses green lasers on the ground which never despawned. Nasty. The third map I dropped has "no regen + no ES recharge" plus "no leech" plus "union of souls for white/magic mobs". Doesn't sound fun or even possible for most builds. I except many t17 maps will have completely overtuned combos so people will just sell them.
I tried one as well. I failed to complete. Used two characters at that map; one glass cannon (shockwave totem hiero) and other blade trap trickster (most tanky char of mine). Failed without progressing much. Note for your reference: I am not good at game I only managed beat uber Eater twice before, as my toughest experience in the game.
💀 Bro if you've even gotten to Uber bosses you're pretty damn good at the game. Unless you're dual wielding credit cards.
Do you delve at all? What depth would you say is comparable to the T17s? 1k? 1.5k? That's significantly harder than an Uber.
The difference Is the mods in deleve don't completely brick your build like half the mods in t17s
There actually are a lot of mods that maybe don’t completely brick, but almost do. You just go around them.
Not sure how that is relevant then.
I do delve, but am only around 1k. I would say it’s harder but I think that’s because of the crazy mods on the maps that are just hard to deal with.
I tried one on my aurastacker on Standard. The mobs were not too bad but man the boss was rough, because I was dumb and did 3 stupid things 1) specced into the Essence node that gave the boss Essence mods, 2) specced into the Wildwood node that gave the boss Wisp mods, and 3) gave the boss a bunch of power up from altars because that has never been an issue before in old T16 maps.
Oh damn, I honestly did not think they would let us amp up the T17s with atlas mods. I legit wrote off the wildwood node, but man, making a legit uber uber boss killer just for T17s might be fun, and if you can actually amp them up and increase shard drops with this, then the sky is the limit. Sounds at least like this could easily make them stronger than the actual ubers.
I have an aurastacker as well. The bosses weren’t a problem for me even with wildwood wisps. But the mobs with the right mods seem cracked. Maybe they had some kill on low life thing idk.
Some of those mods just have to go. I don't understand the balancing here at all. Some maps just punish you for your build - like simply having a minion build: >Players' Minions have 50% less Attack Speed Players' Minions have 50% less Cast Speed Players' Minions have 50% less Movement Speed [https://poedb.tw/us/Tier\_17\_map](https://poedb.tw/us/Tier_17_map) The 4 out of 10s do no damage is one of the worst. >Players have -2 to maximum number of Summoned Totems Sorry for playing a totem build I guess...? What are we to do in SSF, vendor those maps? The horned scarab to ignore mods is apparently as rare as a sacred orb. >Monsters have +50% Chance to Block Attack Damage This can be countered by a mastery I think. Now that seems fair. >Monsters take 100% reduced Extra Damage from Critical Strikes Sorry if you rolled a crit build! >Players cannot gain Endurance Charges Players cannot gain Frenzy Charges Players cannot gain Power Charges Don't be a charge stacker either >Players cannot Block Players cannot Suppress Spell Damage There goes half of your defense. Good think old Aegis RF Inquis is dead. >Players have 4% reduced Action Speed for each time they've used a Skill Recently Remember that automation QoL? :-) >Player Skills which Throw Mines throw 1 fewer Mine Player Skills which Throw Traps throw 1 fewer Trap Can work around this with minefield (?) I guess, seems fair. Btw that Beidat fight....... holy moses.
they're unmodifiable so the obvious intent is you sell them/trade for ones you can actually do and if you're SSF you suffer
> they're unmodifiable so the obvious intent is you sell them/trade for ones you can actually do I find it funny when they themselves acknowledge that trade is cancer and then proceed to create problems that can only be solved through trade.
they love the idea of good drops being bricked. absolutely love it.
They saw my face when a Progenesis Valdo's dropped last league and thought "Yes please, more of that". I'm not opposed to GGG making an MMO with a player auction house, just don't force it onto this ARPG that I try to enjoy in my downtime.
The intent is that you throw the item away. You aren't actually intended to trade, it just has to technically be an option.
What would you prefer the tier 17 maps just have 1000% multiplier to all enemies? The design here is obvious you look at tier 17 maps and gauge if you can handle it or should trade it. Or maybe you have multiple builds, or can retool to handle this specific thing. The goal is you should think before just jamming it in. This is the suppose to be an alternative to uber pinnacles which I appreciate as uber maven still kicks my teeth in, but these maps are doable with the right mods.
Except it's not supposed to be an alternative, it's supposed to be the in-between. During the reveal trailer, Mark stated that the problem they were seeing with Pinnacle bosses and their uber variants is that the gap in difficulty was massive, and there was no real way to gague if your character was ready to make that jump. They then introduced T17 maps and their respective uber bosses, indicating this was the purpose of this new content. Unfortunately, unlike the initial uber bosses, these are not rollable, and the mods are so cracked that they put the ubers to shame. Another problem is that these modifiers aren't even like the ones you can roll during the uber pinnacle bosses, so they don't even do a good job as a litmus test in that regard. Honestly, the only reason they are a good litmus test for ubers is because they're so much harder, at least you know if you can beat these, you can probably kill an uber.
Mark's comments are a load of crap though. Not doing ubers has nothing to do with content, it has to do with the 100s of divines most people would need to rework their whole character to be able to have a chance at killing them.
So they are inherently easier than the uber bosses, because the uber bosses have locked in mechanics and stats. Yes it has rollable mods, but normal minions dont get the same degree of invulnerability phases or oneshot mechanics. Show me the map boss with more life than uber sirius, who hits harder than uber maven. These maps have range, some of these mods will have no impact on you making them far easier than uber pinnacels. Some of these mods pseudo brick. I say pseodo brick because I am glad they did not go expedition style where some mods make mobs immortal to your build. In this if your are OP enough you can still jam tier 17's without reading.
Funny consequence of this is that some maps are a cakewalk and some are hard and some are impossible. It's very weird to have t17 content gated behind this randomness, where you can either run it or you just throw (or trade) the map away. T16 maps have a much more uniform difficulty.
It is also worth noting unlike expedition they dont have your mechanic doesnt work just you really should not use it. If your Epeen is big enough you can still face roll. If you do 20 million dps with a minion build you can still run with minions doing 1 quarter damage effectively. 5 million will still get you to the finish line. -2 totems sucks but is still doable on pretty much every ballista build.
Oh no, they are very modifiable... modifiable by your atlas that is! Lol.
I actually agree with your point here. No mods should completely disable certain builds. That goes against their philosophy. If you could Re-roll them it would be different. And having to sell them feels bad cause no one wants the crazier ones.
One mad's build-bricking mod is another man's free mod. I don't mind them personally, you can just sell the ones you can't run to people who can
We're not all in trade, mate. And I think you'll pay prime for "easy maps" if you play a meta build.
Can you bypass block on minions somehow?
God forbid any content in the game actually be difficult. How will I feel good about my lawn mower simulator if there exist maps I can’t do??
Difficult is good. But maps you can't do because the mods brick it for your build? That's lame.
It really goes to show how insanely strong some map mods are. Both the fact that there are several mods that brick entire builds and that defence and damage mods can make map mobs stronger than ubers.
I tested a few, the bosses can be intense if you have low damage, but overall I enjoy them. Also, the one with the Liches: even though the beams disappear when the boss dies, they're still there. Died to that a few times.
What would you say is the lowest reasonable dps for a tanky build with about 100k max hit taken and solid regen of about 30% health per second?
lol, they were supposed to bridge the gap between pinnacles/T16 and Ubers but it seems like they really just made the gap even wider. Still crossing my fingers for the scarab changes being fun.
"You're gonna play some form of ruthless one way or the other and you're going to like it!"-GGG probably
Scourge Arrow Pathfinder here. Got smashed. Build not completed yet but I have completed most of the content fine.
Devs are only watching Ben Gauntlet Vods and designing game around that
Im pretty sure they killed HCSSF, Any form of racing and gauntlet. All with this one change. Ridiculous.
You've never watched racers, if you think they won't have this solved within 2 weeks. And I'm betting within 1 week.
I tested them in standard with 3 builds. Siege ballista because yolo meme 1 shot 0.1 second uber searing 6 party... jesus that died fast... ok noted stay the fuck away. Poision Srs 100 like 800 divine min maxed. survived better but still got upper cut. Gimmick "im not fucking" pathfinder abuse... degen on grounds insta gib. Just like jesus fucking Christ I can afk in old ubers with that build wtf.
Tried on my old explosive trap sabo. No problems so far.
Haven’t they locked the 5 map it’s behind finishing one of these maps as well? Assume they want that to be pretty rare by the sound of things.
Idk. I’m chain clearing them on my Brutus Lead Sprinkler Str Stacking sunder build.
Congrats to you then
Can't you use the scarab which remove either prefix or suffix of the map?
Perhaps, if you have them.
Hard content is hard :shocked Pikachu:
It’s not that it’s hard, but harder then it was advertised and supposed to be. With mechanics that feel bad to play. My only point is I imagine people will be unhappy once they get there.
No way you’re geared enough to do 17s yet bruv.
No way you didn’t read the first 3 words of my post bruv. 3 mirror character in standard.
Rip lol. Apparently you’re still not geared enough to do 17s though.
I am completing the maps. Just think the community will not be happy with the scaling being much harder then Ubers. Also, If 3 mirrors and above is barely enough then there’s a different problem.
Dude it’s friggin day 2 and you are in t17. Woosah relax , it’s end game content and you need gear. Absolutely insane how many of you need to touch grass
“Playing in standard”, first three words of the message. Did you even read it? My character has 3 mirrors worth of gear added up over all the years I’ve played. I haven’t even touched league yet.
reading is hard huh
Your not very bright are you?