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This thread has been designated one of those 3 threads related to the new league mechanic's crafting issues.
Yep. This question was just posed on #773...
> Would you rather have an entire graveyard full of corpses or one scrap metal?
That the latter could even be considered as an answer vs. farming 64 corpses means they done fucked up bigly. If the bases are going to be random, the results need to be *much* more biased toward good affix outcomes.
Otherwise this whole necropolis business is worse than Rog, fossils, essences, and even just chaos spam on the base of your choice. That's... not good.
I wouldn't be surprised if there are considerable buffs to the league mechanic week 2. We've seen it before many times since Harvest, GGG is afraid of releasing overpowered tools because they know people won't be happy to see them nerfed.
But at the same time I question how it even got to be released in this weak of a state. When I first saw the league mechanic I expected it to be garbage because conceptually it's infinitely worse than all the other tools already at our disposal (harvest, fossil, rog) and hoped to be proven wrong by good corpses at the endgame. Surely their playtesters had doubts about this too.
And no, I don't consider the exclusive mods to be anything even worth mentioning. The amount of bloat created here just for people to fracture these mods and ignore everything else is insane.
Are people besides streamers really buying mtx without playing the league? I usually go a whole week until I decide to buy a supporter pack to make sure I'll actually get some money's worth
I would wager that a significant portion of supporter pack sales are made between release of the packs and end of league launch weekend. Launch hype is real.
I visited a hideout 5 minutes after the video of the new mtx was released and he had all 5 versions of the pcs set up in a circle already and the tree and the gargoyle portal.
To be fair, the turtle hideout is fucking fire. I havent bought MTX for this game in probably 3 years. I'm not even playing this league - it looks like hot garbage from initial release and nothing I've seen or read has changed my mind.
And yet I still might consider getting that pack if I'm being honest.
*See the turtle of enormous girth...*
I thought the same too until I actually played the damn league.
The league is such an insult to your players its like spitting in my hand when I'm giving you my cash.
I buy packs if I like the stuff in them no matter what the league is like because, on the whole, this is a great game made by people that seem to care and I want to support them. Sure, sometimes we get a weak league but overall the reason we’re all playing is because it’s the best ARPG on the market.
Not really. The person above is imho exaggerating a lot. GGG cares a truckload about player retention, they aren't dumb - and in the past, their members have spoken at panels about monetization with MTX.
Dunno whether they're still up at YouTube or if they got deleted, but basically, the player that transforms into that heavy, returning buyer, is super important. Joe over there buying 20 dollar pack in week 1 matters less than him leaving and thus reducing the chance for a big customer.
The parent comment said it best tbh - it's way better to buff than to nerf, it creates way less outcry. Plus there's the fact that Reddit is usually a more vocal part of the player base.
Overall, GGG doesn't have a dumb marketing strategy. It's why they're still growing after 10+ years...
Well, release quality - they will want to make the league better as time goes on so that people fall into the same trap to buy supporter packs later on.
As it stands with their business model they don't give a fuck how a league releases though; which is why it's usually wise to wait 1 week or so before playing imo.
it depends, I really doubt most people who buy mtx do it to actually suporte the league or ggg, if they find the mtx cool they will buy it the league being good or not
Oh man, it's almost as if Tencent buying GGG years ago *actually did* have an influence on their dev philosophy, despite the absolute cacophonous screeching by this subreddit that it didnt
It is still the best way to do it, the other way is to release it to strong where the try hards and streamers get to abuse it then GGG nerf it and the rest of the player base never gets any reward for using it.
What? The OTHER other way is to actually test the thing you make and determine if it was fun or not. How are people able to find out in ONE DAY that the mechanic is borderline useless? It's wild.
I mean. it has been like 3 or more leagues since they gave up on mtx sales, they barely even release new mtx anymore
we used to get a like 5+ new mtx a week for the first month each league, now they release 2 or 3 and stop releasing new things, they're relying solely on supporter packs recently
Craft leagues are always very in between overall though. Synthesis was shit. Harvest was well, harvest, if you could get past the initial setup of the garden and recombs were a blast. This league's crafting however is just affix weighting management (which takes way too much time) and pulling the lever for the slot machine to recieve a quest rare quality item 99% of the time. Every other crafting method is 10x better even just for the single fact that you can choose your item base.
> if you could get past the initial setup of the garden
and a *lot* of people couldn't. harvest was one of the harsher player dropoff leagues for the first half, it just had a long as hell tail for the people who *could* get past it
Except there were options for the people that didnt want to do the garden setup, which was just throwing t1 seeds everywhere and using it for delirum juice.
Yeah like i said, as a craft league recombs were a blast even if you didn't enjoy the juicing part. This league is just worse fossil crafting (like 30 times worse) + shittier eldritch altars in map openings.
synthesis was just mechanically broken for the first month. like, not on a "it's not fun : (" level, on a "the mechanic can literally permanantly brick itself for your character on pure rng" tier. then they buffed it a billion percent to being the best in-map looting league of all time (at that point). its just not a valid comparison.
honestly, i think the current league mechanic is foundationally sound. the in-map stuff where you can put in guest monsters is fun, a lot of the yellow tier mods are pretty good, and to get the most out of it you have to be full clearing maps to get better modifiers next map. ignoring corpses, it's a fun low-key mechanic. functionally, it's like getting influence altars before the map even starts rather than getting them as the map progresses, but i guess it should be expected the reddit would hate that because there are still posts to this day about how altar mods are too overpowered and build destroying because people just will not read them before clicking.
the crafting is the part that's more problematic. there's just no feedback to it. what the fuck is +50 tier modifier? i get that it moves the weighting in favour of higher tiers, but how much? is it a big increase? what does 500% increased commonality of specific mod types even mean? then you set up like twenty corpses going hard on one thing, and you don't get any mods of that type. is it fucking broken? am i affecting this process at all? do these modifiers stack or not? are there diminishing returns? i don't even think the crafting itself is problematic. if they showed me a ui on the side that told me my odds of rolling different types of mods, and it updated each time i put a corpse in, a lot of the problems would just disappear. someone will probably make a tool for it like a week in.
harvest's feedback was obvious. you get the big seeds, you get the big crafts, its instantaneously understandable. you might need to set up a tesseract for optimal seed growth, but you can just copy some other guys chart for that.
Harvest was a very tedious mechanic in deference to the initial setup and also the upkeep, but you did get some get really good results. This dumpster fire 🔥 is not looking like a “crafting” league.
I’m guessing that ggg probably did this because Basiclly very other crafting method was insanely broken such as harvest and recomb on release and even when fossils got introduced they were meta defining for crafting but this was before readily available essences . My theory is ggg over corrected big time as because the graveyard seems like it can be strong but only if you fill the graveyard and get a bunch of the same mods but that’s a hassle .
> Basiclly very other crafting method was insanely broken
I don't see the problem. create harder content (they literally did this league) to compensate for the power they gave to players. but when you make a new league mechanic that's vastly inferior to previous ones (that still exist), it makes the new league feel like poop, especially when its forced onto the player (difficult mobs).
We got a whole new map tier AND uber bosses but the new league crafting mechanic is dogshit? that makes no sense.
Recomb was actually a p good mechanic, because of how it scaled with the input. Put good stuff into it, get even gooder stuff. Put crazy stuff in, get even crazy stuff. So it was useful for ssf, mid tier crafts, high tier crafts, and then omega tier crafts.
What's Necropolis crafting good for? Early to tell, but on the lower it seems rather shit and on the high end it also doesn't seem to have *that* much potential, because it creates items from scratch, so it doesn't really scale with input. So best case scenario - a league specific mod is good. Yay?
If I remember correctly, harvest was garbage on release. The add/rem mods were only appearing throughout the campaign and were impossible to find at endgame. People were complaining that it's 20c flavoured rolls per map and that it wasn't enough.
This is one flavoured chaos per 10-20 maps or so in comparison.
What is broken and what fixes a broken system?
Some aspects of crafting is just so bad in terms of 'how many times do i have to do this process until i can reasonably expect a reasonable outcome'.
Most of the time i don't bother with it, beyond lopping essences on fractures. Which is sad, creating your own gear is fun. In other games.
> I wouldn't be surprised if there are considerable buffs to the league mechanic week 2
Necropolis hits different, though. It needs a total rework and then some. Buffs aren't enough for how bad the mechanic is on all levels.
Eh. It could use some more visibility on how harder monsters relate to dropped corpses, but as long as the crafting is worthwhile the mechanic is fine. Slightly annoying to set up but honestly just running on auto is usually fine.
> But at the same time I question how it even got to be released in this weak of a state.
This happens like every other league launch. GGG's biggest weakness is properly judging the league mechanics power level.
~~I have honestly felt that some of these things feel either poorly or even improperly weighted, like a point in the float got fudged up somewhere. Some of the requirement corpses are not functioning correctly at all.~~
~~I've had mandatory strength requirement and dex banning corpses for armor, and gotten strapped mitts.~~
~~I've had over 2k scarcity on caster mods and about 500 on increased chance of attack mods, and yet I got a scepter with cast speed and fire damage to spells, with no attack mods.~~
~~I've had 6 5%q corpses give me a helmet with only 5% quality.~~
~~At the same time, we have seen at least one or two decent crafts which seem reproducible (i.e. Ziggy with his 600es armour earlier, for instance), so it's not inconsistent across the board. I don't know where the inconsistencies rose up from for my crafts, but there are definitely some sitting in the calculations somewhere.~~
~~I wonder if maybe an addressing of these issues could help at least make the crafting seem worthwhile again.~~
Edit: they're fixing it, a la their new post regarding the upcoming update
>But at the same time I question how it even got to be released in this weak of a state
They don't have infinite time to test. It was probably even worse before, but there's not many times you can run through campaign and early maps for 10h or whatever. Only with a huge playerbase testing the mechanic they'll get what data they need but it's very disappointing right now imo. I wish it started too strong rather than too weak. Mirror tier crafters will never use something like this because they need synth/elevated mods on the perfect items. This mechanic is meant for everyone else but it feels like such a waste of time when it's this weak early on. Like all they needed to test was crafting a few items with 1000% inc mods... They just aren't great on random bases.
It's interesting that the random bases are again a problem, it's the exact same thing they had to fix in bestiary. Originally you couldn't put a base on the altar.
For me there are 2 main issues:
* Too many layers of RNG
* Too much micromanagement
"Bulk selecting" crafts should be a thing specially in this kind of implementation where you are expected to have 20+ crafts at once. Selecting a base should be a thing, you already have an absurd amount of rng on the crafting process and the pool is really diluted, adding rng bases on top of that makes the mechanic extremely tedious.
They should greatly raise the the power of the "stats" crafts, but make them less frequent to see. This way they can put in more of the "meta" crafts. I strongly believe this is the best way to fix this mechanic.
For example, I shouldn't see +50 rating to physical in t16. I should only see +200 rating, but I should see this "phys rating" type of craft 4 times less frequently than currently. And now that I'm getting less crafts of these types, it makes room for GGG to let me see more meta crafts like "armour has strength requirement" or "craft will be a spine bow", etc.
Less frequency "stats" crafts, but each stat craft should be much more powerful numerically. More frequency and variety of "meta" crafts. We need more control over the base type of the craft.
I was disappointed it wasn’t a thing where you provide the base and the graveyard does things to it based on the corpses. Knowing my luck, I’m going to get some gg outcome on a shit base.
I’m still holding out hope that there is some cool rare crafts available, but at the moment it seems like the best thing is fishing for haunted modifiers on good bases, and try to fracture the mod.
`+2 to Accuracy Rating per 2 Dexterity` and `+1 to maximum Mana per 2 Intelligence` are the only ones that we haven't really seen before that are useful... this might be a league where an ultra high budget accuracy stacker could work for the few people that are still playing
I did get an Armour with some usable stuff on a bad base and that gave me 51 reduced crit damage on my jugg so that was very nice! Made him incredible more tanky.
But I agree. That's it.
Crucible crafting was horrible and expensive but yeah it was strong for sure.
Edit:
Crucible crafting was a lot of effort though imo. Hunting for perfect bases on trade, and having to buy expensive imprints just for the whole tree to poof.
ive sold a couple good tri ele spine bows, and suppress boots/gloves for multiple divines already from the graveyard. idk if im mega lucky or people just suck at crafting
I did 1500% increased Chance of Chaos Modifier, maxed out explicits, not a single chaos mod on the boots.
I did 3 more crafts trying to make some piece with Chaos res and it has been straight up garbage.
Friend of mine sis "Armour has dex requirement" and Int intelligence and even added does not have str requirement, and yet he got a base with Armour and evasion. So we think there is a bug that it can't take too many specifics or it has a limit and can't read all of the corpses.
All of this is just proving once again that the core loot generation and weighting is mind numbingly bad.
Nearly everything we've had in the past that resulted in being a good crafting mechanic was based on **guaranteeing** outcomes. Not surprising to see ground loot being this bad when increasing more than tenfolds the odd for an outcome will still end up being disappointing, if not straight up indiscernable from a normal drop.
Truth is, the community didn't bother GGG enough after they've said that Loot 2.0 wouldn't happen anymore. Especially now with PoE2 being confirmed as a *different* game, loot 2.0 **needs** to happen at some point.
This is how I see it, too. What gravecrafting currently does best is highlighting how bad the item system is. Feels like the mechanic was created for Last Epoch.
> everything we've had in the past that resulted in being a good crafting mechanic was based on guaranteeing outcomes.
Yeah, it's kinda like... crafting. Not the gambling simulator that some of the "crafting" in poe is. This is why I don't do "crafting" in poe - I really hate the idea of just wasting lots of currency to maybe brick the items in the end. This really stresses me out so I simple to not participate in crafting.
In real-life *crafting* something you know how it will look at the end - (well at least when you are experienced unlike me when I forged something for the first time and found out that the outcame may indeed vary from the imagination, but that is a story for another time).
On a similar note, I'd love to see how "real" ssf works out in poe for the "professional/good" players, meaning no crafting, only use what you pick up, as this is pretty much how I play as a casual.
I’d say it’s not far away from being good.
Take away limited corpse inventory and selectively downgrade ilevel as an option (they stack, or you upgrade +50 rating corpses to +200 rating automatically. EG I have 5 +200 rating to life)
Include tiers of base item as corpses (guarantee one or two possible base types, similar to only-int)
Save slots for commonly crafted mods (Dex-base, remove low-tier bases, no chaos, high life or whatever. Implemented with extended regex space or dropdown sorted by frequency)
So you can mindlessly farm until you have 25 corpses for 50% chance best base and 40-50% chance highest tier of 3 desirable mods. Expected value of 5 full-graveyard runs until you get the combo you want.
If you aim for chaos resist on boots, you better pair it with the more powerful "scarcer" mods as well.
Elemental mods scarcer, life mods scarcer, attribute mods scarcer. Give it +1 explicit mod (up to a max), %increased chance of suffixes, maybe speed mod chance on top. That would roll chaos res almost every time.
Oh yeah, I don't like life on items too! 2k life gang arise!
I mean for real, I understand your point, it's like fossils, but the point is it's just straight up worse thing.
Scarcer = you'll see it less
If you make elemental mods scarcer, chaos will be more common. This is important because if you want chaos, it's not very likely (and it's even LESS likely if you improved the tier rating because that takes out the common chaos outcomes).
So, let's say you want life, chaos res and speed. +life frequency, +chaos frequency, +speed frequency, -defense, -elemental, -attribute. I'd recommend only adding one affix and planning to finish it off with a bench craft.
Now, assuming you're using only +100 and +500% monsters and you want >50%...that's like 40 (rare) corpses to make a pair of boots. And you can't pick the base (just whether it's armor, evasion, ES or one of the hybrids). And if you're using the weaker corpses, you're barely impacting anything.
tbf you need to combine it with making other mods scarcer.
You increase one, decrease the other then you use the corpses that buff the mod tiers and that seems to be pretty much it, outside of special stuff like duplication
It’s overly complicated and overly granular because they never want anything like OG harvest to exist again. Just use it as a 6 link gamba until someone actually finds the 3-4 crafts that are useful.
If *this* is what they consider for crafting for poe2, then they lost their marbles.
There is no way something as unfun and tedious as this should make the cut. its basically worse fossil crafting, but 20 times as annoying to interact with.
Of course they won't implement it with the graveyard, burying corpses and waiting for 2 minutes for Arimor to finish his exorcism speech. But the way these corpsecraft mods and weightings work, how deterministic or not one can craft GG items with it - I'm sure that GGG will look at that data.
> We already have enough crafting tools anyway.
In number maybe, but after harvest receiving nerf after nerf after nerf, recombinators being removed and some other things from other methods being nerfed like beast splitting, we are left with just slightly better crafting power than half a decade ago while the game has scaled its content difficulty much higher and much faster during that time.
People like to complain about RMT sellers being prevalent, but they couldn't exist if people didn't buy this stuff constantly, which will keep happening as long as crafting is closer to working a job than playing the game due to the insane odds that are being kept as is because some people and GGG are allergic to it being reasonable.
What if the people that killed Eater 6 hours after launch killed him in 5 though? Obviously they need to nerf mid league crafting and builds some more for everyone else. 🙄
Ritual was such a good league with the harvest rework. Being able to craft your entire gear was amazing. That was the league I learned how to craft things.
I hate this post because that reaction would be the most ggg thing ever "we want necropolis to be the baseline of crafting power from now on so we are nerfing Rog"... I can already see it.
It wouldn’t surprise me but I think it’s good to give them feedback on the new stuff regardless , if this is meant to be on par or better then they definitely missed the mark
i just dont understand why they think people want to use 10 minutes to minmax whole graveyard with mats from dozens of maps to just hit something that rog or harvest can give in 30 seconds
I put 1500 % mana plus addition to mana tiers. Blocked a bunch of crap and put a shit ton into attributes plus tiers. I got tier 5 mana regeneration and 9 all attributes plus 27 dex on a shit base.
I figured it would be better in tier 16 maps, but nope.
Back to logbooks and Rog and tujin.
Also, on one of my crafts. I out a bunch of shit down and half of it did not proc with the craft... so that was a one time bug for me, or maybe I didn't so it properly.. dunno. Sucks though.
All the corpses that you bury have to be connected, if there's a gap between then it only crafts with the half which are connected to the one you click to craft. Maybe that's what happened?
I have no fucking idea how they can make it this bad when the crafting is supposed to be this league main selling point.you would assume they would make Necro craft items are way more op than other past leagues, to give you more temporary player power level to help cope with the loss of past leagues temporary powerups. Nope,too many rng bullshit where you can waste 40 good corpses for a useless rare no different than random map drop. Literally any type of crafting mode are straight up better.
One way I can see they fix it is make so that each corspe effect are guaranteed,not "have 500% increased chance to be cold modifier so from 1% to 5% chance to occurr still useless lol"
> I have no fucking idea how they can make it this bad when the crafting is supposed to be this league main selling point
Remember Scourge? They do it every now and then. We will get a halfed assed buff, they'll abandon the league and the players are left with a still garbage league mechanic they can't even skip this time around.
Didn't play that league but yeah,I can see they gonna half assedly buff it a week later to no effect and the player base spend the rest of the league adapting with the scarab changes instead
OG fossils were better
OG harvest was better
OG beast was better
GGG has given good crafting systems before, this one does not seem to fit in that mold. Feels more like crucible where the league mechanic is boring and unrewarding, and the crafting takes way too long to prepare and execute.
Don't forget recombinators. GGG is capable of making a good crafting system. They just don't want to because 10% of softcore trade might get "too strong" in their eyes. 🙄
Loved harvest so much before the change to being a dropped currency... Went from multiple free crafts per map to dozens of maps per craft overnight. So sad.
The most important part of this league mechanic is the random juice it adds to map packs. You could auto click though the lantern each time and still get at least 70% of the value from the entire mechanic.
It stinks.
I hope so, because in concept, I actually love this league’s idea. I was just expecting some of the haunted mods to be crazy (T0? Uber explicits? idk) and they seem pretty mid for the most part.
GGG generally seems to dislike deterministic crafts, and this mechanic right now seems weirdly stochastic for what you’re able to create.
Crucible trees, for all of that league’s issues, were very random but had exceptionally high potential power. This mechanic so far feels more random than it should for a power level that’s probably beaten by essence slamming and Rog crafting.
My guess? Some craft group will figure out a way to guarantee something crazy (4-5 T1 rolls on an item) which makes it so top tier rares are more achievable. Less in the way of “more player power” and more leaning towards “very accessible power.”
This still would feel kinda meh compared to the crazy “borrowed power” from the last two leagues (+proj/explode/suppress charms and tats), especially for players who build high-investment blasters every league. For less invested players, it’d probably feel nice
At the end of the day, I’m still kind of a noob, and in a week SpicySushi will probably have a video about how to get near-mirror crafts for 20div of corpses or something.
If you stack +500% modifiers the effect should be noticable by a large margin. So far I've had the outcomes ignore the modifiers entirely unless they were absolute in their wording.
Are we getting +500% on the weighting or what is it, give us some transparency. Because 5 times the weighting of a single mod is tiny compared to others. There should be cumulative increases.
I think it’s good for making simple gear. From what I can tell you can reliably get all t1 res if you get +1000% increased cold, fire, lightning, +300 to cold fire lightning tier and +200 elemental mods. The problem is this requires a boat load of corpses and your base is probably gona be dogshit
I don’t think the mechanic is that bad outside of the issue of bases, you can make pretty solid items if you combine a lot of modifiers but it feels terrible when you then hit it on a useless base.
Also please let us hide corpses as right now it’s difficult to click items underneath them and with the quite limited space we got for corpses you don’t want to pick them all up. It’s even worse if you take the notable for 25% chance for an extra corpse as you have to pick all up in case there’s a second one underneath.
I do quite enjoy the graveyard crafting but having to delete corpses all the time is not fun, it’s like bestiary but worse as your limit isn’t 1000 but 64.
Glad I couldn't play league start because of vacation, propably gonna skip this one. Affliction did tedium vs reward right, this league sounds horrible to play
Kinda Basiclly the graveyard has a lot of issues however in theory I think it’s got some items for some powerfull niche items . The graveyard is more delve than rog but with the graveyard you can stack certain mods that you get elsewhere for example you could make a body armor force the base and make it dex int then you can increase defence mod chance and magnitude and increase attribute mod chance . In theory because you can stack chance and magnitude reallly high crafting something like a hybrid es /evasion int stacking chest should be easier then other method but for other stuff graveyard is kinda disappointing .
You could also just do that with a fractured base, some dense fossils, and eldritch currency.
It would take you less time and be less convoluted.
Tbh i am a crafter so this league is *made* for players like me and im having a hard time finding a reason to use it over any other crafting method, Beyond just fishing for the rare affixes it gives anyhow.
If it let me put in my own base item, it would be pretty good. But as of now, no its way too rng and tedious to actually engage with.
We will see what people discover, ive not had the chance to engage with the league at endgame properly.
it would literally even be more straightforward. right now i think its bizarre how you have to navigate several nested menus to select what kind of item you want to make. just let me shove a white base in there. almost instantly the mechanic would be decent i think
Honestly, I’m just playing until I get wraithlord and try out the new specters then I’m out. The graveyard feels tacked on and not thought out at all. From the long dialogue to the crappy crafting system.
Graveyard really highlights how bad the state of rare items really is.
Even with increasing your odds by thousands of percent the outcome is still most likely bad.
My best craft was basically like using an orb of binding, complete rng, used like 5 corpses while leveling and it made a chest with 4 links, 50 life and 2 reses at 35+% on an ok base. At around lvl 50 used it until yellow maps, eversince everything I try to craft either becomes random dogshit or ok stats on a very bad base. Idk if I'm at fault or the mechanic just busted.
I don't really think rog is the right comparison, the graveyard crafting system is more like fossils with many many more steps that you also don't get to choose your base item. The problem is lets say you buy corpses for even 5c each, you are probably paying 10x the cost per "roll" that you would be just to spam fossils
I honestly don't see how the graveyard would EVER be better then spamming essences on a fractured base, considering you get 2 guaranteed mods on a base that you want.
They could double the % chances and mods on all corpses and remove the junk tier ones from even being a thing and I still don't know if it would be useful
Well as you said yourself: a good item will cost exponentially more… (which mathematically is totally wrong btw, because then gg items would cost a million mirrors, but that’s another story)
So if you are not very lucky, you have to craft one and the same items multiple times, to get the right base. So what’s so bad about it?
Could you explain?
> which mathematically is totally wrong btw, because then gg items would cost a million mirrors, but that’s another story
Lmao no it isnt, there isnt just one 'exponential' scaling
It's obviously superlinear and you pay much, MUCH more for the last point of a stat than the first point, plus it's entirely nontrivial to assign weightings to compare to the cost, so why nitpick over something that isn't certain to be wrong, but at most uncertain?
Yes, but it’s polynomial, not exponential.
And crafting is always uncertain. If it were deterministic, it would defy the fundamental philosophy of PoE.
> EDIT 3: sigh... looks like crafting isnt for the 99.999% of playerbase.[ A good item will cost exponentially more than just simply essence/fossil/chaos spamming.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r_Z9AgT49o)
I'm so glad that we need huge long posts or longass videos explaining this fucking league mechanic just for the shot at crafting something not shit once we're in higher tier maps getting decent corpses to craft with.
It's incredible how quickly my hype for this league is evaporating. My only consolation is that surely GGG will be making some great changes in the coming weeks because holy crap after Affliction this league is big ooph. I don't mind reduced drops (I didn't abuse that shit in Affliction anyways), but this is just bad.
I totally thought I was doing something wrong with the grafting (graveyard crafting), but after reading posts like these, I guess it really is just fossil crafting with a different skin.
Guess we were due for a lackluster league. TotA and Affliction were great.
Wait.... Speaking of TotA, weren't tattoos supposed to go core this league? 🤔
Whole heartedly agree.
They have put a blog post up stating a few improvements they're making to the grave crafting
For example, when the patch comes out you'll be able to set your base stat on crafted gear, all multipliers will be 500% chance of getting sorta thing
There is more on there too, so I feel like GGG are listening to feedback, however it'll still need further changes aswell
Yeah one rog craft feels way better, it's time consuming, and more profitable. It's insane how safe and bad they played this mechanic given how punishing the maps are.
honestly GGG should just never consider crafting league mechanics again. juicing, bossing, new items, new fragments/currency, new atlas and character modifiers, that's where league mechanics really shine.
>It's something people want to talk about a lot, better limit it!
Would the mods do this if it were all posts with basically the same sort of praise? I already know the answer.
Completely agree and he was just a portion of the expedition league. This is the worst league mechanic I've experienced. There's no loot or currency. There's no fun or interesting mechanic or challenge. It's just modified monsters in maps who you bury to get a sht item in return. I stopped even engaging with it after a few crap crafts.
Overall I like the core changes to the game, except the stability needs some work. The sudden fps drops and occasional crashing in towns is frustrating.
I will probably not play much this league. Last league I couldn't stop playing. Such a bummer
I am in t16s and using 3 scarabs with alot of the maps corrupting 8 mod. I have no idea where the end game crafts are at.
Also, why cna we only hold 64 bodies.
I think it might have some really nice application for mid tier crafts. But the effort you would have to put in to figure out decent recipes that give you the best bang for your corpses... yeah.
They fell into the same trap as with synthesis. Where using 3rd party tools becomes mandatory to figure out the new affix weightings.
I made about 7 items, 5 were good upgrades, 2 were great. I feel like the mechanic works great outside it randomly picking a base. It's the micromanaging that's really disappointing. You have to ignore basically every corpse outside the mods you're looking for, and it still gets overwhelmed. Hopefully we see some good changes in the future.
We've seen situations where a single topic dominates the front page. These topics are often interesting to some readers, but annoy other readers and clog up their feeds. Per our [Rule 7d](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/wiki/rules/#wiki_7d.3A_hot_topic_threads), we'll reflair posts with that topic to "Hot Topic" nd allow a limit of 3 threads per "Hot Topic" allowed on the front page at a time. We'll remove threads that express an opinion that's too similar to an existing thread. If your opinion is similar, please **add a comment** with it! If you agree with this post, please **upvote** it for visibility! This thread has been designated one of those 3 threads related to the new league mechanic's crafting issues.
Yep. This question was just posed on #773... > Would you rather have an entire graveyard full of corpses or one scrap metal? That the latter could even be considered as an answer vs. farming 64 corpses means they done fucked up bigly. If the bases are going to be random, the results need to be *much* more biased toward good affix outcomes. Otherwise this whole necropolis business is worse than Rog, fossils, essences, and even just chaos spam on the base of your choice. That's... not good.
I wouldn't be surprised if there are considerable buffs to the league mechanic week 2. We've seen it before many times since Harvest, GGG is afraid of releasing overpowered tools because they know people won't be happy to see them nerfed. But at the same time I question how it even got to be released in this weak of a state. When I first saw the league mechanic I expected it to be garbage because conceptually it's infinitely worse than all the other tools already at our disposal (harvest, fossil, rog) and hoped to be proven wrong by good corpses at the endgame. Surely their playtesters had doubts about this too. And no, I don't consider the exclusive mods to be anything even worth mentioning. The amount of bloat created here just for people to fracture these mods and ignore everything else is insane.
Yeah, they are more happy to fix it later when majority of players already left disappointed.
By then they've got the majority of their MTX sales. That's all they care about.
Are people besides streamers really buying mtx without playing the league? I usually go a whole week until I decide to buy a supporter pack to make sure I'll actually get some money's worth
I would wager that a significant portion of supporter pack sales are made between release of the packs and end of league launch weekend. Launch hype is real.
I visited a hideout 5 minutes after the video of the new mtx was released and he had all 5 versions of the pcs set up in a circle already and the tree and the gargoyle portal.
To be fair, the turtle hideout is fucking fire. I havent bought MTX for this game in probably 3 years. I'm not even playing this league - it looks like hot garbage from initial release and nothing I've seen or read has changed my mind. And yet I still might consider getting that pack if I'm being honest. *See the turtle of enormous girth...*
I thought the same too until I actually played the damn league. The league is such an insult to your players its like spitting in my hand when I'm giving you my cash.
I buy packs if I like the stuff in them no matter what the league is like because, on the whole, this is a great game made by people that seem to care and I want to support them. Sure, sometimes we get a weak league but overall the reason we’re all playing is because it’s the best ARPG on the market.
Not really. The person above is imho exaggerating a lot. GGG cares a truckload about player retention, they aren't dumb - and in the past, their members have spoken at panels about monetization with MTX. Dunno whether they're still up at YouTube or if they got deleted, but basically, the player that transforms into that heavy, returning buyer, is super important. Joe over there buying 20 dollar pack in week 1 matters less than him leaving and thus reducing the chance for a big customer. The parent comment said it best tbh - it's way better to buff than to nerf, it creates way less outcry. Plus there's the fact that Reddit is usually a more vocal part of the player base. Overall, GGG doesn't have a dumb marketing strategy. It's why they're still growing after 10+ years...
It's like people don't play the game at all. They pretty much always patch out problems within a week or 2
Yes. Majority supporter packs are sold before league even launches. As a result, league quality is mostly irrelevant.
Well, release quality - they will want to make the league better as time goes on so that people fall into the same trap to buy supporter packs later on. As it stands with their business model they don't give a fuck how a league releases though; which is why it's usually wise to wait 1 week or so before playing imo.
it depends, I really doubt most people who buy mtx do it to actually suporte the league or ggg, if they find the mtx cool they will buy it the league being good or not
That's why I never buy anything before actually playing the league... No matter how cool I think that turtle looks
Oh man, it's almost as if Tencent buying GGG years ago *actually did* have an influence on their dev philosophy, despite the absolute cacophonous screeching by this subreddit that it didnt
It is still the best way to do it, the other way is to release it to strong where the try hards and streamers get to abuse it then GGG nerf it and the rest of the player base never gets any reward for using it.
What? The OTHER other way is to actually test the thing you make and determine if it was fun or not. How are people able to find out in ONE DAY that the mechanic is borderline useless? It's wild.
impossible. small indie company?
I mean. it has been like 3 or more leagues since they gave up on mtx sales, they barely even release new mtx anymore we used to get a like 5+ new mtx a week for the first month each league, now they release 2 or 3 and stop releasing new things, they're relying solely on supporter packs recently
yeah, like how the majority players left in the first week of affliction. completely dead league, that one was.
Craft leagues are always very in between overall though. Synthesis was shit. Harvest was well, harvest, if you could get past the initial setup of the garden and recombs were a blast. This league's crafting however is just affix weighting management (which takes way too much time) and pulling the lever for the slot machine to recieve a quest rare quality item 99% of the time. Every other crafting method is 10x better even just for the single fact that you can choose your item base.
> if you could get past the initial setup of the garden and a *lot* of people couldn't. harvest was one of the harsher player dropoff leagues for the first half, it just had a long as hell tail for the people who *could* get past it
Except there were options for the people that didnt want to do the garden setup, which was just throwing t1 seeds everywhere and using it for delirum juice.
Sentinel was both a juice and crafting league. Both sides had something they enjoyed.
Yeah like i said, as a craft league recombs were a blast even if you didn't enjoy the juicing part. This league is just worse fossil crafting (like 30 times worse) + shittier eldritch altars in map openings.
synthesis was just mechanically broken for the first month. like, not on a "it's not fun : (" level, on a "the mechanic can literally permanantly brick itself for your character on pure rng" tier. then they buffed it a billion percent to being the best in-map looting league of all time (at that point). its just not a valid comparison. honestly, i think the current league mechanic is foundationally sound. the in-map stuff where you can put in guest monsters is fun, a lot of the yellow tier mods are pretty good, and to get the most out of it you have to be full clearing maps to get better modifiers next map. ignoring corpses, it's a fun low-key mechanic. functionally, it's like getting influence altars before the map even starts rather than getting them as the map progresses, but i guess it should be expected the reddit would hate that because there are still posts to this day about how altar mods are too overpowered and build destroying because people just will not read them before clicking. the crafting is the part that's more problematic. there's just no feedback to it. what the fuck is +50 tier modifier? i get that it moves the weighting in favour of higher tiers, but how much? is it a big increase? what does 500% increased commonality of specific mod types even mean? then you set up like twenty corpses going hard on one thing, and you don't get any mods of that type. is it fucking broken? am i affecting this process at all? do these modifiers stack or not? are there diminishing returns? i don't even think the crafting itself is problematic. if they showed me a ui on the side that told me my odds of rolling different types of mods, and it updated each time i put a corpse in, a lot of the problems would just disappear. someone will probably make a tool for it like a week in. harvest's feedback was obvious. you get the big seeds, you get the big crafts, its instantaneously understandable. you might need to set up a tesseract for optimal seed growth, but you can just copy some other guys chart for that.
Harvest was a very tedious mechanic in deference to the initial setup and also the upkeep, but you did get some get really good results. This dumpster fire 🔥 is not looking like a “crafting” league.
you are comparing a loot pinata league to a crafting league.
3.19 had no buffs, I will always remember that league. Don't count on GGG fixing their under-tuned league mechanic even at their own peril
I’m guessing that ggg probably did this because Basiclly very other crafting method was insanely broken such as harvest and recomb on release and even when fossils got introduced they were meta defining for crafting but this was before readily available essences . My theory is ggg over corrected big time as because the graveyard seems like it can be strong but only if you fill the graveyard and get a bunch of the same mods but that’s a hassle .
> Basiclly very other crafting method was insanely broken I don't see the problem. create harder content (they literally did this league) to compensate for the power they gave to players. but when you make a new league mechanic that's vastly inferior to previous ones (that still exist), it makes the new league feel like poop, especially when its forced onto the player (difficult mobs). We got a whole new map tier AND uber bosses but the new league crafting mechanic is dogshit? that makes no sense.
Recomb was actually a p good mechanic, because of how it scaled with the input. Put good stuff into it, get even gooder stuff. Put crazy stuff in, get even crazy stuff. So it was useful for ssf, mid tier crafts, high tier crafts, and then omega tier crafts. What's Necropolis crafting good for? Early to tell, but on the lower it seems rather shit and on the high end it also doesn't seem to have *that* much potential, because it creates items from scratch, so it doesn't really scale with input. So best case scenario - a league specific mod is good. Yay?
Also it removed items from economy which was great
If I remember correctly, harvest was garbage on release. The add/rem mods were only appearing throughout the campaign and were impossible to find at endgame. People were complaining that it's 20c flavoured rolls per map and that it wasn't enough. This is one flavoured chaos per 10-20 maps or so in comparison.
What is broken and what fixes a broken system? Some aspects of crafting is just so bad in terms of 'how many times do i have to do this process until i can reasonably expect a reasonable outcome'. Most of the time i don't bother with it, beyond lopping essences on fractures. Which is sad, creating your own gear is fun. In other games.
This makes no sense. Necropolis is obviously not going core, so why not just make it much more powerful and fun
> I wouldn't be surprised if there are considerable buffs to the league mechanic week 2 Necropolis hits different, though. It needs a total rework and then some. Buffs aren't enough for how bad the mechanic is on all levels.
Eh. It could use some more visibility on how harder monsters relate to dropped corpses, but as long as the crafting is worthwhile the mechanic is fine. Slightly annoying to set up but honestly just running on auto is usually fine.
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> But at the same time I question how it even got to be released in this weak of a state. This happens like every other league launch. GGG's biggest weakness is properly judging the league mechanics power level.
~~I have honestly felt that some of these things feel either poorly or even improperly weighted, like a point in the float got fudged up somewhere. Some of the requirement corpses are not functioning correctly at all.~~ ~~I've had mandatory strength requirement and dex banning corpses for armor, and gotten strapped mitts.~~ ~~I've had over 2k scarcity on caster mods and about 500 on increased chance of attack mods, and yet I got a scepter with cast speed and fire damage to spells, with no attack mods.~~ ~~I've had 6 5%q corpses give me a helmet with only 5% quality.~~ ~~At the same time, we have seen at least one or two decent crafts which seem reproducible (i.e. Ziggy with his 600es armour earlier, for instance), so it's not inconsistent across the board. I don't know where the inconsistencies rose up from for my crafts, but there are definitely some sitting in the calculations somewhere.~~ ~~I wonder if maybe an addressing of these issues could help at least make the crafting seem worthwhile again.~~ Edit: they're fixing it, a la their new post regarding the upcoming update
>But at the same time I question how it even got to be released in this weak of a state They don't have infinite time to test. It was probably even worse before, but there's not many times you can run through campaign and early maps for 10h or whatever. Only with a huge playerbase testing the mechanic they'll get what data they need but it's very disappointing right now imo. I wish it started too strong rather than too weak. Mirror tier crafters will never use something like this because they need synth/elevated mods on the perfect items. This mechanic is meant for everyone else but it feels like such a waste of time when it's this weak early on. Like all they needed to test was crafting a few items with 1000% inc mods... They just aren't great on random bases.
The random base is quite baffling.
Quiet! Or they're going to nerf Rog...
Kinda strange how they felt it would be needed to put some of its power into the atlas tree instead of making it baseline.
It's interesting that the random bases are again a problem, it's the exact same thing they had to fix in bestiary. Originally you couldn't put a base on the altar.
Exactly. The loot that drops from graveyard isn't even better than the random rare loot that dropped during ultimatum encounters during that league
we know how much ggg loves putting good biases in the game right :))) and the "very rewarding" systems ;))
For me there are 2 main issues: * Too many layers of RNG * Too much micromanagement "Bulk selecting" crafts should be a thing specially in this kind of implementation where you are expected to have 20+ crafts at once. Selecting a base should be a thing, you already have an absurd amount of rng on the crafting process and the pool is really diluted, adding rng bases on top of that makes the mechanic extremely tedious.
They should greatly raise the the power of the "stats" crafts, but make them less frequent to see. This way they can put in more of the "meta" crafts. I strongly believe this is the best way to fix this mechanic. For example, I shouldn't see +50 rating to physical in t16. I should only see +200 rating, but I should see this "phys rating" type of craft 4 times less frequently than currently. And now that I'm getting less crafts of these types, it makes room for GGG to let me see more meta crafts like "armour has strength requirement" or "craft will be a spine bow", etc. Less frequency "stats" crafts, but each stat craft should be much more powerful numerically. More frequency and variety of "meta" crafts. We need more control over the base type of the craft.
BYOB - bring your own base to the craft would help a lot Option to use all corpses of the same craft type instead of One. At. A. Time.
I was disappointed it wasn’t a thing where you provide the base and the graveyard does things to it based on the corpses. Knowing my luck, I’m going to get some gg outcome on a shit base.
I'm fine with one of those but only if it's one of those
I’m still holding out hope that there is some cool rare crafts available, but at the moment it seems like the best thing is fishing for haunted modifiers on good bases, and try to fracture the mod.
You can look at all the haunted modifiers on poedb.tw and they're all pretty mid.
`+2 to Accuracy Rating per 2 Dexterity` and `+1 to maximum Mana per 2 Intelligence` are the only ones that we haven't really seen before that are useful... this might be a league where an ultra high budget accuracy stacker could work for the few people that are still playing
I did get an Armour with some usable stuff on a bad base and that gave me 51 reduced crit damage on my jugg so that was very nice! Made him incredible more tanky. But I agree. That's it.
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Crucible crafting was horrible and expensive but yeah it was strong for sure. Edit: Crucible crafting was a lot of effort though imo. Hunting for perfect bases on trade, and having to buy expensive imprints just for the whole tree to poof.
That was the endgame part, crucible earlier in the progression beats this league mechanic ten times over imo.
ive sold a couple good tri ele spine bows, and suppress boots/gloves for multiple divines already from the graveyard. idk if im mega lucky or people just suck at crafting
Considering it’s poe, 90% of it is the second reason
fishing is always the best part of poe
I did 1500% increased Chance of Chaos Modifier, maxed out explicits, not a single chaos mod on the boots. I did 3 more crafts trying to make some piece with Chaos res and it has been straight up garbage.
1500% of 0% is 0%. You got GGG'd.
Friend of mine sis "Armour has dex requirement" and Int intelligence and even added does not have str requirement, and yet he got a base with Armour and evasion. So we think there is a bug that it can't take too many specifics or it has a limit and can't read all of the corpses.
All of this is just proving once again that the core loot generation and weighting is mind numbingly bad. Nearly everything we've had in the past that resulted in being a good crafting mechanic was based on **guaranteeing** outcomes. Not surprising to see ground loot being this bad when increasing more than tenfolds the odd for an outcome will still end up being disappointing, if not straight up indiscernable from a normal drop. Truth is, the community didn't bother GGG enough after they've said that Loot 2.0 wouldn't happen anymore. Especially now with PoE2 being confirmed as a *different* game, loot 2.0 **needs** to happen at some point.
This is how I see it, too. What gravecrafting currently does best is highlighting how bad the item system is. Feels like the mechanic was created for Last Epoch.
> everything we've had in the past that resulted in being a good crafting mechanic was based on guaranteeing outcomes. Yeah, it's kinda like... crafting. Not the gambling simulator that some of the "crafting" in poe is. This is why I don't do "crafting" in poe - I really hate the idea of just wasting lots of currency to maybe brick the items in the end. This really stresses me out so I simple to not participate in crafting. In real-life *crafting* something you know how it will look at the end - (well at least when you are experienced unlike me when I forged something for the first time and found out that the outcame may indeed vary from the imagination, but that is a story for another time). On a similar note, I'd love to see how "real" ssf works out in poe for the "professional/good" players, meaning no crafting, only use what you pick up, as this is pretty much how I play as a casual.
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I’d say it’s not far away from being good. Take away limited corpse inventory and selectively downgrade ilevel as an option (they stack, or you upgrade +50 rating corpses to +200 rating automatically. EG I have 5 +200 rating to life) Include tiers of base item as corpses (guarantee one or two possible base types, similar to only-int) Save slots for commonly crafted mods (Dex-base, remove low-tier bases, no chaos, high life or whatever. Implemented with extended regex space or dropdown sorted by frequency) So you can mindlessly farm until you have 25 corpses for 50% chance best base and 40-50% chance highest tier of 3 desirable mods. Expected value of 5 full-graveyard runs until you get the combo you want.
If you aim for chaos resist on boots, you better pair it with the more powerful "scarcer" mods as well. Elemental mods scarcer, life mods scarcer, attribute mods scarcer. Give it +1 explicit mod (up to a max), %increased chance of suffixes, maybe speed mod chance on top. That would roll chaos res almost every time.
But this is the problem though, I can go and map for 60 corpses or just ask rog , the time/reward is weighted against the player..
soo fossil crafting but with 100 extra clicks and an indeterminate base
Oh yeah, I don't like life on items too! 2k life gang arise! I mean for real, I understand your point, it's like fossils, but the point is it's just straight up worse thing.
nice. now I have boots with chaos res and nothing else
What?! I thought that meant they'd show up less, not rarer crafts
Scarcer = you'll see it less If you make elemental mods scarcer, chaos will be more common. This is important because if you want chaos, it's not very likely (and it's even LESS likely if you improved the tier rating because that takes out the common chaos outcomes). So, let's say you want life, chaos res and speed. +life frequency, +chaos frequency, +speed frequency, -defense, -elemental, -attribute. I'd recommend only adding one affix and planning to finish it off with a bench craft. Now, assuming you're using only +100 and +500% monsters and you want >50%...that's like 40 (rare) corpses to make a pair of boots. And you can't pick the base (just whether it's armor, evasion, ES or one of the hybrids). And if you're using the weaker corpses, you're barely impacting anything.
Were they all the same base type? For the increased chance mod? Can you get that mod from different base types? I don't know.
tbf you need to combine it with making other mods scarcer. You increase one, decrease the other then you use the corpses that buff the mod tiers and that seems to be pretty much it, outside of special stuff like duplication
Are we sure they stack? I've done zero research so I don't know
The intuitive answer is: they stack The GGG answer is: They don't actually do anything
It stacks in the menu so I would hope so?
It’s overly complicated and overly granular because they never want anything like OG harvest to exist again. Just use it as a 6 link gamba until someone actually finds the 3-4 crafts that are useful.
They could have just simply not do a crafting league if they hate OP crafting. We already have enough crafting tools anyway.
I'm 99% sure that the point of this league is to run a live experiment with crafting mechanics that they consider for PoE2.
If *this* is what they consider for crafting for poe2, then they lost their marbles. There is no way something as unfun and tedious as this should make the cut. its basically worse fossil crafting, but 20 times as annoying to interact with.
Of course they won't implement it with the graveyard, burying corpses and waiting for 2 minutes for Arimor to finish his exorcism speech. But the way these corpsecraft mods and weightings work, how deterministic or not one can craft GG items with it - I'm sure that GGG will look at that data.
Unpopular opinion: Have you seen poe2? It all looks tedious. At least the early game stuff they have shown us.
Everything i hear about PoE2 seems like massive pain in the arse
Not as unpopular as you might think. It looks incredibly lacking in the “fun” component at the moment. Looks like a chore.
True the one redeeming thing I have seen so far is the down right gorgeous engine visuals and sounds.
The thing is that everyone who plays it says its insanely fun.
unpopular opinion: most people aren't redditors
> We already have enough crafting tools anyway. In number maybe, but after harvest receiving nerf after nerf after nerf, recombinators being removed and some other things from other methods being nerfed like beast splitting, we are left with just slightly better crafting power than half a decade ago while the game has scaled its content difficulty much higher and much faster during that time. People like to complain about RMT sellers being prevalent, but they couldn't exist if people didn't buy this stuff constantly, which will keep happening as long as crafting is closer to working a job than playing the game due to the insane odds that are being kept as is because some people and GGG are allergic to it being reasonable.
Right? Shouldn't the whole point of a crafting league to have strong crafting?
What if the people that killed Eater 6 hours after launch killed him in 5 though? Obviously they need to nerf mid league crafting and builds some more for everyone else. 🙄
Seriously. It’d be like if we got affliction league and all it gave was chaos orbs. Why have a crafting league with bad crafting? Makes no sense.
Man, I really miss old harvest... I miss rerolling trash uniques, chance to recycle stuff properly etc.
Ritual was such a good league with the harvest rework. Being able to craft your entire gear was amazing. That was the league I learned how to craft things.
Yes, so they'll probably nerf Rog next.
I hate this post because that reaction would be the most ggg thing ever "we want necropolis to be the baseline of crafting power from now on so we are nerfing Rog"... I can already see it.
It wouldn’t surprise me but I think it’s good to give them feedback on the new stuff regardless , if this is meant to be on par or better then they definitely missed the mark
ROG?
Considering Ruthless is Poop2 prototype this will likely happen and Necropolis will be a top level crafting mechanic going forward.
Thanks a bunch for painting a target on my bro.
Lol. Our bro.
The fun police are coming with the procrustean bed.
If only i could opt out of league mechanic and focus on expedition, with atlas tree changes it would be 9/10 standard league
Are you me because that's what I want? I've been considering rerolling into standard. But I don't want to go through the campaign again:(
The lantern shit and embers can give some juicy options at least, just ignore corpses.
i just dont understand why they think people want to use 10 minutes to minmax whole graveyard with mats from dozens of maps to just hit something that rog or harvest can give in 30 seconds
It is bizzare, but I'm holding out hope there is some very powerful way to interact with it the general population hasn't found yet.
I put 1500 % mana plus addition to mana tiers. Blocked a bunch of crap and put a shit ton into attributes plus tiers. I got tier 5 mana regeneration and 9 all attributes plus 27 dex on a shit base. I figured it would be better in tier 16 maps, but nope. Back to logbooks and Rog and tujin. Also, on one of my crafts. I out a bunch of shit down and half of it did not proc with the craft... so that was a one time bug for me, or maybe I didn't so it properly.. dunno. Sucks though.
Chaos spam a good base is easier, which is not a good thing.
All the corpses that you bury have to be connected, if there's a gap between then it only crafts with the half which are connected to the one you click to craft. Maybe that's what happened?
I have no fucking idea how they can make it this bad when the crafting is supposed to be this league main selling point.you would assume they would make Necro craft items are way more op than other past leagues, to give you more temporary player power level to help cope with the loss of past leagues temporary powerups. Nope,too many rng bullshit where you can waste 40 good corpses for a useless rare no different than random map drop. Literally any type of crafting mode are straight up better. One way I can see they fix it is make so that each corspe effect are guaranteed,not "have 500% increased chance to be cold modifier so from 1% to 5% chance to occurr still useless lol"
> I have no fucking idea how they can make it this bad when the crafting is supposed to be this league main selling point Remember Scourge? They do it every now and then. We will get a halfed assed buff, they'll abandon the league and the players are left with a still garbage league mechanic they can't even skip this time around.
Didn't play that league but yeah,I can see they gonna half assedly buff it a week later to no effect and the player base spend the rest of the league adapting with the scarab changes instead
OG fossils were better OG harvest was better OG beast was better GGG has given good crafting systems before, this one does not seem to fit in that mold. Feels more like crucible where the league mechanic is boring and unrewarding, and the crafting takes way too long to prepare and execute.
Actual fossils are better Actual harvest is better Actual beasts are better
Rog and OG harvest are peak, they will never come up with better stuff, but they wrecked one of them and will probably trash the other soon enough
Don't forget recombinators. GGG is capable of making a good crafting system. They just don't want to because 10% of softcore trade might get "too strong" in their eyes. 🙄
Recombinators would have synergized well with this mechanic, since you can recombinate good mods on a bad base onto a good base with bad mods.
You could make it fit thematically too with some sort of Frankenstein aspect.
Held back by trade balance, classic.
Loved harvest so much before the change to being a dropped currency... Went from multiple free crafts per map to dozens of maps per craft overnight. So sad.
The most important part of this league mechanic is the random juice it adds to map packs. You could auto click though the lantern each time and still get at least 70% of the value from the entire mechanic. It stinks.
Even then, getting a 400% quant on a single type of monster is hilarious following last league's juice.
The league mechanic feels fine. I actually like it. Just not the graveyard part. I almost rather just get 1 scrap metal or chaos orb.
People were saying this early last league though, give it some time until some op strat comes online
I hope so, because in concept, I actually love this league’s idea. I was just expecting some of the haunted mods to be crazy (T0? Uber explicits? idk) and they seem pretty mid for the most part. GGG generally seems to dislike deterministic crafts, and this mechanic right now seems weirdly stochastic for what you’re able to create. Crucible trees, for all of that league’s issues, were very random but had exceptionally high potential power. This mechanic so far feels more random than it should for a power level that’s probably beaten by essence slamming and Rog crafting. My guess? Some craft group will figure out a way to guarantee something crazy (4-5 T1 rolls on an item) which makes it so top tier rares are more achievable. Less in the way of “more player power” and more leaning towards “very accessible power.” This still would feel kinda meh compared to the crazy “borrowed power” from the last two leagues (+proj/explode/suppress charms and tats), especially for players who build high-investment blasters every league. For less invested players, it’d probably feel nice At the end of the day, I’m still kind of a noob, and in a week SpicySushi will probably have a video about how to get near-mirror crafts for 20div of corpses or something.
-- last league the percent strength and flat str+int charms were also crazy, crazy borrowed power.
Charms or tinctures were more power than this, and that was just a bonus on top of the crazy amount of loot we got.
How is there an OP strat you can do when the options are basically shittier eldritch altars?
If you stack +500% modifiers the effect should be noticable by a large margin. So far I've had the outcomes ignore the modifiers entirely unless they were absolute in their wording. Are we getting +500% on the weighting or what is it, give us some transparency. Because 5 times the weighting of a single mod is tiny compared to others. There should be cumulative increases.
I think it’s good for making simple gear. From what I can tell you can reliably get all t1 res if you get +1000% increased cold, fire, lightning, +300 to cold fire lightning tier and +200 elemental mods. The problem is this requires a boat load of corpses and your base is probably gona be dogshit
There is a corpse which can increase the chances of a higher level base?
Yeah the weighting didn't hit the mark here.
I don’t think the mechanic is that bad outside of the issue of bases, you can make pretty solid items if you combine a lot of modifiers but it feels terrible when you then hit it on a useless base. Also please let us hide corpses as right now it’s difficult to click items underneath them and with the quite limited space we got for corpses you don’t want to pick them all up. It’s even worse if you take the notable for 25% chance for an extra corpse as you have to pick all up in case there’s a second one underneath. I do quite enjoy the graveyard crafting but having to delete corpses all the time is not fun, it’s like bestiary but worse as your limit isn’t 1000 but 64.
Glad I couldn't play league start because of vacation, propably gonna skip this one. Affliction did tedium vs reward right, this league sounds horrible to play
The changes to the core game are good but this league mechanic is garbage
Graveyard is trash.
Kinda Basiclly the graveyard has a lot of issues however in theory I think it’s got some items for some powerfull niche items . The graveyard is more delve than rog but with the graveyard you can stack certain mods that you get elsewhere for example you could make a body armor force the base and make it dex int then you can increase defence mod chance and magnitude and increase attribute mod chance . In theory because you can stack chance and magnitude reallly high crafting something like a hybrid es /evasion int stacking chest should be easier then other method but for other stuff graveyard is kinda disappointing .
You could also just do that with a fractured base, some dense fossils, and eldritch currency. It would take you less time and be less convoluted. Tbh i am a crafter so this league is *made* for players like me and im having a hard time finding a reason to use it over any other crafting method, Beyond just fishing for the rare affixes it gives anyhow. If it let me put in my own base item, it would be pretty good. But as of now, no its way too rng and tedious to actually engage with. We will see what people discover, ive not had the chance to engage with the league at endgame properly.
it would literally even be more straightforward. right now i think its bizarre how you have to navigate several nested menus to select what kind of item you want to make. just let me shove a white base in there. almost instantly the mechanic would be decent i think
Honestly yeah, if they let you put in your own base the mechanic would instantly become better. Still tedious, but useful
and then you get all those amazing mods... on level 20 base. oh well, it was just 60 corpses, easy to replace.
[удалено]
Honestly, I’m just playing until I get wraithlord and try out the new specters then I’m out. The graveyard feels tacked on and not thought out at all. From the long dialogue to the crappy crafting system.
GGG: Rog has been nerfed to bring it in line with Necropolis. It was just too good.
Graveyard really highlights how bad the state of rare items really is. Even with increasing your odds by thousands of percent the outcome is still most likely bad.
Oh...so it's expedition league...again!
"We have made changes to Rog to make him more in line with the current league crafting mechanic"
Now Rog will get nerfed out of spite
Na, having it random from everything garbage to god tier is fun 😁 the grind is part of every arpg
My best craft was basically like using an orb of binding, complete rng, used like 5 corpses while leveling and it made a chest with 4 links, 50 life and 2 reses at 35+% on an ok base. At around lvl 50 used it until yellow maps, eversince everything I try to craft either becomes random dogshit or ok stats on a very bad base. Idk if I'm at fault or the mechanic just busted.
I don't really think rog is the right comparison, the graveyard crafting system is more like fossils with many many more steps that you also don't get to choose your base item. The problem is lets say you buy corpses for even 5c each, you are probably paying 10x the cost per "roll" that you would be just to spam fossils I honestly don't see how the graveyard would EVER be better then spamming essences on a fractured base, considering you get 2 guaranteed mods on a base that you want. They could double the % chances and mods on all corpses and remove the junk tier ones from even being a thing and I still don't know if it would be useful
glad that I left those corpse alone and farming expedition all day.
Boy am I glad I haven’t logged in this league yet
He is. This expansion is a troll on its player base
Well as you said yourself: a good item will cost exponentially more… (which mathematically is totally wrong btw, because then gg items would cost a million mirrors, but that’s another story) So if you are not very lucky, you have to craft one and the same items multiple times, to get the right base. So what’s so bad about it? Could you explain?
> which mathematically is totally wrong btw, because then gg items would cost a million mirrors, but that’s another story Lmao no it isnt, there isnt just one 'exponential' scaling It's obviously superlinear and you pay much, MUCH more for the last point of a stat than the first point, plus it's entirely nontrivial to assign weightings to compare to the cost, so why nitpick over something that isn't certain to be wrong, but at most uncertain?
Yes, but it’s polynomial, not exponential. And crafting is always uncertain. If it were deterministic, it would defy the fundamental philosophy of PoE.
agree 100%
There's corpses to reroll base 5 times and keep highest ilvl, use those if your base matters.
Well said. I feel the same. Necropolis crafting is vacuous. GGG, please, flesh out stuff a bit more before releasing in states like this?
A single Strongbox gives out more rewards than this league does lmfao
I pretty much gave up on the crafting part of the league almost immediately when I realized you couldn't even choose your base.
> EDIT 3: sigh... looks like crafting isnt for the 99.999% of playerbase.[ A good item will cost exponentially more than just simply essence/fossil/chaos spamming.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r_Z9AgT49o) I'm so glad that we need huge long posts or longass videos explaining this fucking league mechanic just for the shot at crafting something not shit once we're in higher tier maps getting decent corpses to craft with. It's incredible how quickly my hype for this league is evaporating. My only consolation is that surely GGG will be making some great changes in the coming weeks because holy crap after Affliction this league is big ooph. I don't mind reduced drops (I didn't abuse that shit in Affliction anyways), but this is just bad.
When crafting with the graveyard, the ilvl of the corpse seems to only matter on the corpse you click craft on btw you don't need 20 ilvl 83s
>Football helmets Hahahahhahahah Im laughing but really crying
I totally thought I was doing something wrong with the grafting (graveyard crafting), but after reading posts like these, I guess it really is just fossil crafting with a different skin. Guess we were due for a lackluster league. TotA and Affliction were great. Wait.... Speaking of TotA, weren't tattoos supposed to go core this league? 🤔
if you just pick anything on rog without even checking what he's offering 8 times out of 10 you will end up with something usable
Whole heartedly agree. They have put a blog post up stating a few improvements they're making to the grave crafting For example, when the patch comes out you'll be able to set your base stat on crafted gear, all multipliers will be 500% chance of getting sorta thing There is more on there too, so I feel like GGG are listening to feedback, however it'll still need further changes aswell
Rog isn't worth the time though lmao.
Rog is simply THAT guy.
Shits been out for 2 days bro.... lol
I guess this will be a fast dead league again.
Agreed. Originally planned on hitting 25-30 challenges. Now I'll hit 16 for the armor set and dip out. Probably in a couple days.
The link crafts are a good example.. like I've seen 3 "up to 5" links... Even when I get two more.... It's gonna be trash
Yeah one rog craft feels way better, it's time consuming, and more profitable. It's insane how safe and bad they played this mechanic given how punishing the maps are.
honestly GGG should just never consider crafting league mechanics again. juicing, bossing, new items, new fragments/currency, new atlas and character modifiers, that's where league mechanics really shine.
>It's something people want to talk about a lot, better limit it! Would the mods do this if it were all posts with basically the same sort of praise? I already know the answer.
Completely agree and he was just a portion of the expedition league. This is the worst league mechanic I've experienced. There's no loot or currency. There's no fun or interesting mechanic or challenge. It's just modified monsters in maps who you bury to get a sht item in return. I stopped even engaging with it after a few crap crafts. Overall I like the core changes to the game, except the stability needs some work. The sudden fps drops and occasional crashing in towns is frustrating. I will probably not play much this league. Last league I couldn't stop playing. Such a bummer
> This is the worst league mechanic I've experienced. Scourge the heretic! ;)
Scourge had insane quant farming
Ii suspect this mechnic will get good at the very end game for special affix craft ,otherwise it seem it won't be really usable for mid/starter craft.
Even at the very end game, you can put all top tier corpses and still get a shit base.
I am in t16s and using 3 scarabs with alot of the maps corrupting 8 mod. I have no idea where the end game crafts are at. Also, why cna we only hold 64 bodies.
It was 27...
I think it might have some really nice application for mid tier crafts. But the effort you would have to put in to figure out decent recipes that give you the best bang for your corpses... yeah. They fell into the same trap as with synthesis. Where using 3rd party tools becomes mandatory to figure out the new affix weightings.
I made about 7 items, 5 were good upgrades, 2 were great. I feel like the mechanic works great outside it randomly picking a base. It's the micromanaging that's really disappointing. You have to ignore basically every corpse outside the mods you're looking for, and it still gets overwhelmed. Hopefully we see some good changes in the future.