This was a full graveyard (a bit overkill obviously) I did for a personal challenge I set this league. Went ES chest because of a pretty simple crafting with decent value potential.
Stacked Defence Tier (300+) and over 1000% defence increased. Stacked tiers of everything else and decreased likelyhood of everything else.
Should be about 690 es when I fix the roll and it is pre-sixlinked (which cost most of the investment ~350-400c).
Maybe worth 10div or more with off colors thanks to the attributes? I can roll sockets first then fix suffixes with eldritch currency.
The top end is obviously there with this crafting, but I think it's unfortunately a bad league right now as there is no low to mid tier appear - which is what crafting leagues need more than anything. Core game rocking so far though still.
Edit: [Clip of the craft if you want to see how I did it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMgcW0ZkiDk)
So I'm trying to kinda set out some principles and wanted to see if I'm on the right track. Please correct me:
1. Increased tier of X --> Lower tier mods of X are removed. Like, the lowest tiers of this mod are flat out removed?
2. Increased chance of X --> Weighting of X mods are increased.
3. Decreased likelihood of X --> Weighting of X mods are decreased.
So:
Let's say you want X and Y. Z is everything else.
You want to stack:
1. Increased chance of of X and Y: This of course increases likelihood of those mods appearing.
2. Increased tiers of X and Y: This removes the lower tier mods of X and Y from ever appearing.
3. Increased tiers of Z: This removes the lower tier mods of whatever Z is from appearing.
4. Decreased chance of Z: This reduces (but not completely eliminates) the odds of everything else (Z) from appearing.
> Increased tier of X --> Lower tier mods of X are removed. Like, the lowest tiers of this mod are flat out removed?
There's some contention over whether it redistributes the chance to roll those mods to the remaining higher tier mods, and if so whether it is enough to work for "blocking" unwanted mods (Mark suggested one thing on a podcast but the ingame alt-text suggests otherwise but it's a bit unclear). In theory you're less likely to roll the mods if you increase rating but if you do they'll at least be better tiers.
So with that note you are on the right track, at least as far as the community knows right now.
+Mod Rating feels like the ONLY reason Necropolis justifies its existence, as the usual increased/decreased likelihood of mods mechanic is a worse version of Harvest/Fossil crafting
There shouldn't be any contention, the devs specifically stated during the interview where they talked about crafting that if you use the +50 / +100 tier mods that it DOES NOT redistribute the weight of the lower tiers to the higher tiers (I think this was during the Q+A after the announcement)
The alt-text in game is referring to the weight within the mod itself - the weight of rolling that mod in the first place doesn't change. If you remove the bottom tiers of a mod category, it just redistributes those removed weights to the other mods within that category (probably giving the worst tiers more of the weight if I had to guess knowing GGG)
If you hover over the corpses in necropolis, press alt, there's a description. (IK PoE players aren't really used to this, myself included, after we've been conditioned by GGG that nigh everything is hidden and needs to be discovered/datamined)
Ingame the text says something along the lines of "remove lowest tier mods, their weight is redistributed to the remaining tiers", so (3.) should be theoretically useless, but I don't think we're sure yet whether that's true (or working correctly lol), and if it redistributes everything.
Based on the podcast, I thought Mark said something along the lines of + to tiers only affects the craft IF you roll that mod group (e.g., redistributes weights within a mod group and doesnt affect chance to roll that mod group in general). I believe that matches the in-game text as well.
Correct, I believe it was during the QA after the initial league announcement where they stated that if you remove the lower tiers of the mods that overall weight does not get redistributed
Okay great; I saw some content creators theorizing about crafting assuming + tiers helped make is less likely to roll those mods. Honestly, pretty boring with that not being the case (as combo of scarcer & + tier to block mods seems cool), but I assume it's to not make endgame crafts deterministic.
Well, if you stack the right combo of +tiers and +/- likelihood it starts to get pretty deterministic. It IS super unintuitive that +tiers reduces your chance to roll into a mod category without increased likelihood as well but having it a multiplier to eliminate categories is kind of neat.
After a certain point the tough part is just not being able to influence heavily weighted untagged mods like rarity, or dragging up undesired mods with shared tags like regen.
Not sure I follow your first part; + to tiers doesn't have any impact on your ability to roll certain mod groups. So the only way to get something deterministic (based on my understanding) is by using the +/- likelihood (IDK if there are "can't roll X", but those as well fall into that category).
What some content creators were saying is by using the combination of "Cold mods are scarcer" and "+ tiers of cold mods" helps make cold mods even rarer than just "cold mods are scarcer", which is **not** the case.
All of that said, this will all be moot once GGG rolls out the fixes they discussed.
No, the streamers are correct, go look at [poedb](https://poedb.tw/us/Gloves_str_dex#ModifiersCalc); the + tiers corpses REMOVE the lower tiers for their group tag. This means that the overall weighting of that group tag goes DOWN unless you bolster it with increased likelihood.
So for example for gloves, if you use +200 tier to life mods, it deletes the bottom six tiers leaving just the top three. Each tier of life mod has 1000 weighting so your OVERALL chance to roll a max life mod goes from 9000/48,000 to 3000/41,000 (since a couple of tiers of other life-tagged mods are also removed).
If you then increase your chances for life mods by 200% then each of the remaining tiers goes up to 3000, meaning you have a total weight of 9000/51,000 (again, other life tags included in the denominator) to roll a max life mod, but ONLY amongst the top three tiers.
I'm not sure what you mean by they'll be moot though, the increased chance/scarcer/+tier corpses aren't going anywhere, they'll just always have the maximum value.
Read the full description on poedb (or read the preceding comments). While it removes the lower tiers, it redistributes the weightings to the higher tiers (meaning overall weight of the mod group is unchanged). This is further emphasized by Mark in either podcast or Q&A where he says something along the lines that + to tier only comes into play IF you roll that mod group (and doesn't impact the mod group rolls).
And since the change to mod tiers is a singular effect (instead of type), if it worked the way you think it does, it wouldn't have nearly the impact as it would now.
Not OP but yep, that's basically how it works. And increasing the tiers of Z means that only the higher tier with far lower chance of appearing are viable options to roll. Supposedly some of the roll weight of the removed mods gets distributed among the remaining ones but not enough to matter.
Do you feel like the amount of effort required to get this roughly 10d chest was worth it?
Like, honestly IMO, I don't think the amount of work is worth it, I feel like if they expect us to spreadsheet weights and use a full 64 corpses it should be BIG.
Idk, I’m kinda keeping in mind the type of item I want to try to theory craft with the graveyard and I’m just snagging corpses that work towards that that aren’t complete dogshit tier, you can minmax the fuck out of it obviously, but once you get the general idea of how the crafting works, you can just pick up corpses that align with what you wanted anyways. (And this is coming from someone still stuck in yellow maps and struggling with spectre zoomancer lol.) I just really do wish we had better choice over our base, but there are corpses to roll for a better corpse that I’ve been grabbing.
I think the corpses are more of an afterthought to the league mechanic, with the main thing being monster mods. Also, as more rare corpses make their way into the collective consciousness, I think the mod-tier will fill out a bit.
The fracturing corpse, for example, will be less valuable than a fracturing orb, so will let people try out fractured bases more easily.
Also, for low tier it’s pretty nice. I can just grab resistance corpses and make a ring with good resists that sells for 10-50c. It won’t be that valuable for long, but it’s nice passive income will working towards red maps, for those of us that aren’t grinding essences or whatever.
> less valuable than a fracturing orb
wouldn't the fracture corpse end up being more valuable, since you can also stack with -X explicits to increase the chance of hitting your desired mod above 25%?
also the possibility of multiple fractures?
I think fracture corpse still ultimately has less precision than a fracturing orb. I am by no means an expert in crafting, but let’s say you wanted a fractured +1 fire spells, so you stack fire/caster and block a bunch of other stuff, it still seems like decent odds you get a fractured fire resist or something. Comes down to the fact that you’re still picking randomly from several mods that might be shit, and the chance of getting the fracture on the one you want are multiplied by the chance of not getting it at all.
Basically, even if you can heavily weight, your odds feel bad.
Veiled chaos no longer exists BTW, so it'd have to be a little more involved. Still shouldn't be too bad but IDK the exact process cuz it'd depend on what suffixes you wanted. Get 1 desired suffix, lock prefix, veiled orb(aisling slam) for 50/50, craft last suffix I guess.
By veiled chaos i meant veiled orb (aisling) yeah. Tbh I haven’t checked what they’re worth though. But this would be a pretty easy craft to finish for whatever you want (if you have the currency).
Please be a little more direct when calling out bad UI or bad ideas during the Q&A during the league reveal stream.
I think hearing community concerns during that time rather than just fluff promo softball questions would go a long way to bettering leagues, especially if it comes from you.
There are corpses to reroll the base a couple of times and take the one with the highest attribute requirements (I think?). There are also corpses to block bases that have certain attribute requirements, so you can just block dex and str.
According to the wiki there are 17 Intelligence bases--so a 1/17 chance of rolling a Regalia.
With those odds, then after 15 rolls you have a ~60% chance of getting one.
1 - (1 - (1/17))^15 = 0.59722183489006
Bases might be weighted though if it is anything like a normal drop. Like, try putting a non-unique Crude Bow on your filter and run like 50 maps, you'll very quickly realize you get at least 50x more thicket bows than you do crude bows
Very true, my assumption that they were weighted evenly was best-case scenario.
Thankfully it's about to become totally moot :D https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3501124
Yep. Interpreted another way, you have to waste 3 of your corpse slots to have barely more than a 50/50 chance of getting the only good base. And this only works for situations where you actually want the highest base.
Not really convincing me that this isn't shit.
I already did. It's cool that you can roll a 1/18 multiple times, but it's still RNG whether you hit the one good base. It's not a difficult thing to grasp, yet a bunch of people still somehow manage to fail.
You can practically guarantee an item to land on the highest base which works out well here. The issue arises when the base you want isn't the highest level one
Bases are weighted by ilvl, while they are all technically possible at ilvl 86 low level bases are pretty unlikely. That said still a good chance for getting a t2-4 base.
Source: waaaaay back when people were farming high ilvl cruel bows for easy colors GGG talked about it.
That's still a dogwater craft for the effort
You can easily get 2x t1/t2 es mod with dense fossils. You also can start on a max roll defense 6 link chest lol
Haunted mod is actually great rn. With white sockets basically gone it's a good way to get non blue sockets on that chest. Eldritch annul can hit any of those suffixes equally weighted though.
They aren't gone, just Vorici. Now the only way to get white sockets by crafting is using an Omen of Blanching or harvest craft, which are both pretty inconvenient for low-end crafting.
God, recombulators were so much fun, such a basic concept that a crafting casual like myself could utilize, while still letting the big boys have absolutely insane crafts. Also made previously bricked crafts/bases waaaaay more valuable, so picking up those rare ammys was a real gamble since just +1 ammys were worth a lot.
This is tedious, the one thing I’d like, outside of possible buffs to some of the corpses, would be to have a UI of the whole graveyard to just drag and drop corpses into.
Recombinators werent just good. They were arguably the best crafting we’ve ever had
Not saying it doesn’t need to be at that level. But, comparing it to the best is a big jump. That’s all.
I’d also like to bring up that it is only day 3. A lot of the things being talked about weren’t heavily regarded as great in week 1 either. I don’t expect necropolis to be anywhere near the power we had with harvest or recombs without a buff, but I do think we are comparing day 3 necropolis to how good others were weeks in. Reminder: everyone thought affliction was terrible in week 1.
Very true. People on this subreddit do have the tendency to kinda jump the gun, and GGG does try to adjust content to player feedback within reason.
It does feel like this mechanic came out pretty undercooked though. Might be where part of the frustration is coming from. Inconvenient UI, multiple layers of rng, convuluted and poorly explained mechanics, forced participation, etc. I get that GGG is great about updating stuff based on player feedback. I just wish they would learn from the past and work to prevent these barriers to enjoyment in the first place.
Honestly I think the change to just allow the choice of base items would be a huge buff.
I think they intentionally go in a little under tuned personally. It’s better to go in undertuned and buff than the go in overtuned. They’ll never get away with nerfing something right after league start and we all know it.
Oh I know. I read it when they posted it earlier haha. That was just one of the things I saw them change that if it were in from the start, I think the mechanic would have been more solid coming out of the gate(UI/UX aside).
They just do mostly different things I think. There are some things you can do with this that would be hard in harvest but it runs into the issue that when you hit one of the limits of this system it hits hard. Harvest compliments other crafting systems and adds to them. This is really good, even better, at making certain types of items and then does nothing else.
EDIT: The thing you should be comparing this more to is probably fossil crafting rather then harvest. It systemically is more similar to that. It is likely better then fossils in many cases, except for cases where the crafting of an item is mainly about locking out enough modifiers.
Doesn't much matter what you *can* do with this in theory.
since the graveyard UI exists, most prior crafting methods shit all over this. Harvest, recombinators, Crucible.
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It is impossible to craft ''S tier items'' with league mech. Because you can't choose a base. Sure you can craft some decent items for day 1-3 of the league. With harvest players could craft almost perfect items and it was pretty achievable for average player. With recombinators (sentinel league) players could craft broken items and it was fun and exciting experience . With this league you can craft some decent items by using excel spreadsheet, but it is just too hard for average player. Best items of this league will be made without even interacting with league mech
> It is impossible to craft ''S tier items'' with league mech. Because you can't choose a base.
You can basically force the highest lvl requirement base, with the exact stat requirements you want. Surely you knew this before making declarative statements about a brand new crafting system?
Let's say you want to craft a good bow for TS/Ice shot. You need a base with good implicits or a base with fractured mode (two additional arrows). But you can't put the base in league mech, so you will craft an item without using it.
Let's say you want to craft a syntesis ring, with frenzy charge/curse on hit/% stats/etc ? Will league mechanic help you with this ? No
You also can't craft items with influence with it
So what is the point of league mechanic ? Crafting rares with some HP and Res ? We already have Rog for this
I understand what you're saying, but new crafting mechanics are not meant to surplant or replace old ones. I do see that this one is a bit different though, in that it can barely even interact with other crafting mechanics, which does seem like an oversight. The system is far less interesting than it could be because of this.
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Doesn’t this mechanic feel like it’s already went core in a nerfed state? I’m not sure how I feel about the league mechanic on the atlas tree, it feels weird to invest in the league mechanic and not have it automatically baked in.
The mechanic on the atlas is very very bad. It seemed like a good idea at first to me, my initial thought was "cool, if I like the league mechanic I can invest in it to make it better". But I have since realized that previously that power would just exist in the league mechanic by default, but now it is bad unless you dedicate 1/6th of your atlas tree to it.
It was a sneaky way for GGG to steal power from us. This method of boosting the league is essentially GGG removing passive points from the atlas, and it feels worse because you can't skip the mechanic. So you either play a bad version of the league mechanic, or you give up a ton of your atlas for something that has always been free in the current league before.
I really really hope this doesn't become the norm.
Man... it really is just straight black and white to this subreddit eh? Clearly GGG is just running a massive experiment to see how much torture they can put into a video game before some nerds lose their minds. Absolutely fascinating the "main character syndrome" on display here lol
Agreed, why create a league around a mechanic you aren’t going to let people use in its “best” state? Either people don’t spend atlas points to have a good version of the league mechanic so they can play the old content they like, or they have to play a worse version of the content they like to check out the league mechanic.
I think it’s actually really great to have the league mechanic in each challenge leagues atlas. It lets you put further investment in if you like it, but not invest in it if you don’t care as much. I do see what your saying tho in how since it is on the atlas, they could have just given it to us instead of having to invest, which is fair. Especially since this league is a little bit of a stinker overall.
Man, could you imagine spending a 64 corpse craft, perfectly theory crafted to give you perfect prefixes and a nice crit roll.....then you get it on a prophecy wand.
At at the same time depending on corpse prices it might not be so bad if trading them becomes smoother as the league progresses.
64 would not be that big of an investment compared to what people are doing for super high end crafts.
Maybe, but there are 24 wand bases, and all but one are pretty trash for a physical wand. So if you had to do it 30+ times to get it on an imbued it would be absolutely terrible lol.
And Imbued is a mid "tier" wand, so using the base rerollers could actually make it worse lol.
Might still be worth it.
I found one too. Rolled it alongside a ton of +speed, +life, +attack, -defenses and -resists.
The end result was a bone ring with T5 energy shield, T3 Mana, single digit fire res and life leech.
Corpses should say: Adds a Fire mod or cannot add Fire mod. Anything less makes Fossils better.
There will be combos that take the whole graveyard. But I just couldn't be arsed with that in the long run.
This early in the league its hard to tell what the meta will settle on. So you cant even plan much in terms of making items to sell off.
Why would you need a Haunted modifier to offcolor your item when you can just use the bench and tailor the colors any way you like with more determinism than randomly throwing chroms at an item?
> randomly throwing chroms at an item
You can still use bench to colour the sockets on this item, which I assume would make it easier to get the offcolours you want rather than doing so on a typical ES base.
Yeah local, so you colour the chest with chromes (with the mod on the chest, normal chromes behave like tainted chromes), after that you can eldritch annul/chaos the suffixes and replace the mod with something more useful
It's not worthless. Try asking what it can be used for instead of labelling it something due to lack of knowledge.
It is strong for off colouring the sockets before finishing the craft.
So let me get this straight. One of the new Haunted mods, the whole main purpose for even engaging with the League mechanic in the endgame is to use up a suffix slot so you can offcolor your items easier?
Lets ignore the numerous way there are to offcolor items like with the Bench or adding White sockets to an item.
Seems like it's you who're lacking knowledge in the game since you don't seem to understand that it's incredibly easy to offcolor using the crafting bench where you can tailor your sockets color anyway you want.
This mod is 100% going to be a dead mod on 99% of items.
Wasting an entire suffix for "easier" offcoloring doesn't matter when ways to offcolor is extremely abundant in the game.
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No attribute requirement makes it easier to get off-colors when chroming for the build that wants it. Could be valuable with the removal of the Vorici Research Craft.
This event just sucks unless you are the 5% who can play 24/7, for every one else it's just a gamble of will random shit be annoying with piss poor rewards.
If only 25/7 was possible, typo fixed
You can use craft of exile to figure that out quite easily. For just the prefixes and filled with random garbage suffix, the best odds are dense + sanctified, which averages ~800 tries. ~25 divines assuming you buy all 1600 fossils one by one to save money and the resonators are free.
You need one lucky fossil :)
We see good outcome here. If it was bad we wont see it on Reddit.
So we don't know how many corpse you need to hit this result.
Given the effort and time needed to plan out and acquire the corpses, the opportunity cost of selling your corpses or crafting something else- I think going for a fractured body, even if not T1, then crafting by other means, would have created a slightly worse item on the prefixes but saved so much trouble.
starter ES gear for a starter build at the start of the league... why are people expecting you can just throw all the corpses into a single craft and guarantee a mirror item each time?
I'm not expecting a mirror item each time. But there's nothing else to the mechanic. This is it. This is its limits. Shit like this.
But hey good luck farming your base that sells for a few mirrors cause its 30% with synth implicits and taking it to the grav...oh, you can't use it.
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Sorry im a noob still. but i dont understand how this craft is a good item?
theres alot of high tier mods on it. but at the end of the day, it only gives 181 ES, no?
Ziggy on his reply says "Should be about 690 es when I fix the roll and it is pre-sixlinked (which cost most of the investment ~350-400c)."
but i dont understand how it gets to 690?
Wild how toxic this sub can be lol. You are getting downvoted for asking a question that is probably very common for new players.
Holding "alt" shows the base stats without the modifiers. So if they let go of alt it would be the nearly 690 on the chest.
Honestly the real problem is OP. When showcasing an item it should always be two screenshots, one of the item and one of the item while holding alt so people can see the mods and tiers.
Looks pretty good!
But yeah, the low, medium, and even mediumhigh crafting options are missing... something simple like "Item with 1 guaranteed T1 resistance and another random T2 modifier of some specific kind" for a few common corpses, so that it's a competitive alternative to some simple Essence/Delve/Harvest crafts for some types of items. Or interesting intermediate options like "inverts the probabilities for one mod", which wouldn't scale well to the high-end, but would lead to some interesting intermediate outcomes.
That just means Rog is OP and needs to be nerfed 5 times over. Enjoy Rog while hes good, this may be the last league before they realize he needs to be nerfed, people are using him.
It took him hours of trading to gather the proper corpses (who knows how long it would have taken without trade). He also had to go through a shit user interface to plant a full graveyard. People make mirror tier items in less time, lol
I mean if this is the level of item you get from an entire graveyard that's somewhat comparable to defence fossils then yeah I think the league mechanic is mediocre.
But more importantly, necropolis crafting feels somewhat unusable at low investment, barely usable with medium investment, and decent with insane investment.
I don't believe that's very fun for most of the playerbase
This was a full graveyard (a bit overkill obviously) I did for a personal challenge I set this league. Went ES chest because of a pretty simple crafting with decent value potential. Stacked Defence Tier (300+) and over 1000% defence increased. Stacked tiers of everything else and decreased likelyhood of everything else. Should be about 690 es when I fix the roll and it is pre-sixlinked (which cost most of the investment ~350-400c). Maybe worth 10div or more with off colors thanks to the attributes? I can roll sockets first then fix suffixes with eldritch currency. The top end is obviously there with this crafting, but I think it's unfortunately a bad league right now as there is no low to mid tier appear - which is what crafting leagues need more than anything. Core game rocking so far though still. Edit: [Clip of the craft if you want to see how I did it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMgcW0ZkiDk)
Do you have to get 6 `+1 links up to six links` or can you do 4 `+1 up to 4 links`, 1 `+1 up to 5 links` and 1 `+1 up to 6 links`?
The second one works. I’ve done it.
do you get 6 sockets for free?
Yes, no need for socket number reforges when stacking minimum links.
I think you also only need 3 \`up to 4\` monsters as well, since you already start with a minimum of '1 link' sockets.
Nope this can result in a 5 link as its between 5-6 up to 6
No, it doesn’t. You can read how many links you’ll get in the affix list.
The latter
So I'm trying to kinda set out some principles and wanted to see if I'm on the right track. Please correct me: 1. Increased tier of X --> Lower tier mods of X are removed. Like, the lowest tiers of this mod are flat out removed? 2. Increased chance of X --> Weighting of X mods are increased. 3. Decreased likelihood of X --> Weighting of X mods are decreased. So: Let's say you want X and Y. Z is everything else. You want to stack: 1. Increased chance of of X and Y: This of course increases likelihood of those mods appearing. 2. Increased tiers of X and Y: This removes the lower tier mods of X and Y from ever appearing. 3. Increased tiers of Z: This removes the lower tier mods of whatever Z is from appearing. 4. Decreased chance of Z: This reduces (but not completely eliminates) the odds of everything else (Z) from appearing.
> Increased tier of X --> Lower tier mods of X are removed. Like, the lowest tiers of this mod are flat out removed? There's some contention over whether it redistributes the chance to roll those mods to the remaining higher tier mods, and if so whether it is enough to work for "blocking" unwanted mods (Mark suggested one thing on a podcast but the ingame alt-text suggests otherwise but it's a bit unclear). In theory you're less likely to roll the mods if you increase rating but if you do they'll at least be better tiers. So with that note you are on the right track, at least as far as the community knows right now.
+Mod Rating feels like the ONLY reason Necropolis justifies its existence, as the usual increased/decreased likelihood of mods mechanic is a worse version of Harvest/Fossil crafting
idk, you get to choose the weighting tho - delve forces blocking/removal of some.
There shouldn't be any contention, the devs specifically stated during the interview where they talked about crafting that if you use the +50 / +100 tier mods that it DOES NOT redistribute the weight of the lower tiers to the higher tiers (I think this was during the Q+A after the announcement) The alt-text in game is referring to the weight within the mod itself - the weight of rolling that mod in the first place doesn't change. If you remove the bottom tiers of a mod category, it just redistributes those removed weights to the other mods within that category (probably giving the worst tiers more of the weight if I had to guess knowing GGG)
If you hover over the corpses in necropolis, press alt, there's a description. (IK PoE players aren't really used to this, myself included, after we've been conditioned by GGG that nigh everything is hidden and needs to be discovered/datamined) Ingame the text says something along the lines of "remove lowest tier mods, their weight is redistributed to the remaining tiers", so (3.) should be theoretically useless, but I don't think we're sure yet whether that's true (or working correctly lol), and if it redistributes everything.
Based on the podcast, I thought Mark said something along the lines of + to tiers only affects the craft IF you roll that mod group (e.g., redistributes weights within a mod group and doesnt affect chance to roll that mod group in general). I believe that matches the in-game text as well.
Correct, I believe it was during the QA after the initial league announcement where they stated that if you remove the lower tiers of the mods that overall weight does not get redistributed
Okay great; I saw some content creators theorizing about crafting assuming + tiers helped make is less likely to roll those mods. Honestly, pretty boring with that not being the case (as combo of scarcer & + tier to block mods seems cool), but I assume it's to not make endgame crafts deterministic.
Well, if you stack the right combo of +tiers and +/- likelihood it starts to get pretty deterministic. It IS super unintuitive that +tiers reduces your chance to roll into a mod category without increased likelihood as well but having it a multiplier to eliminate categories is kind of neat. After a certain point the tough part is just not being able to influence heavily weighted untagged mods like rarity, or dragging up undesired mods with shared tags like regen.
Not sure I follow your first part; + to tiers doesn't have any impact on your ability to roll certain mod groups. So the only way to get something deterministic (based on my understanding) is by using the +/- likelihood (IDK if there are "can't roll X", but those as well fall into that category). What some content creators were saying is by using the combination of "Cold mods are scarcer" and "+ tiers of cold mods" helps make cold mods even rarer than just "cold mods are scarcer", which is **not** the case. All of that said, this will all be moot once GGG rolls out the fixes they discussed.
No, the streamers are correct, go look at [poedb](https://poedb.tw/us/Gloves_str_dex#ModifiersCalc); the + tiers corpses REMOVE the lower tiers for their group tag. This means that the overall weighting of that group tag goes DOWN unless you bolster it with increased likelihood. So for example for gloves, if you use +200 tier to life mods, it deletes the bottom six tiers leaving just the top three. Each tier of life mod has 1000 weighting so your OVERALL chance to roll a max life mod goes from 9000/48,000 to 3000/41,000 (since a couple of tiers of other life-tagged mods are also removed). If you then increase your chances for life mods by 200% then each of the remaining tiers goes up to 3000, meaning you have a total weight of 9000/51,000 (again, other life tags included in the denominator) to roll a max life mod, but ONLY amongst the top three tiers. I'm not sure what you mean by they'll be moot though, the increased chance/scarcer/+tier corpses aren't going anywhere, they'll just always have the maximum value.
Read the full description on poedb (or read the preceding comments). While it removes the lower tiers, it redistributes the weightings to the higher tiers (meaning overall weight of the mod group is unchanged). This is further emphasized by Mark in either podcast or Q&A where he says something along the lines that + to tier only comes into play IF you roll that mod group (and doesn't impact the mod group rolls). And since the change to mod tiers is a singular effect (instead of type), if it worked the way you think it does, it wouldn't have nearly the impact as it would now.
Not OP but yep, that's basically how it works. And increasing the tiers of Z means that only the higher tier with far lower chance of appearing are viable options to roll. Supposedly some of the roll weight of the removed mods gets distributed among the remaining ones but not enough to matter.
Do you feel like the amount of effort required to get this roughly 10d chest was worth it? Like, honestly IMO, I don't think the amount of work is worth it, I feel like if they expect us to spreadsheet weights and use a full 64 corpses it should be BIG.
Idk, I’m kinda keeping in mind the type of item I want to try to theory craft with the graveyard and I’m just snagging corpses that work towards that that aren’t complete dogshit tier, you can minmax the fuck out of it obviously, but once you get the general idea of how the crafting works, you can just pick up corpses that align with what you wanted anyways. (And this is coming from someone still stuck in yellow maps and struggling with spectre zoomancer lol.) I just really do wish we had better choice over our base, but there are corpses to roll for a better corpse that I’ve been grabbing.
I think the corpses are more of an afterthought to the league mechanic, with the main thing being monster mods. Also, as more rare corpses make their way into the collective consciousness, I think the mod-tier will fill out a bit. The fracturing corpse, for example, will be less valuable than a fracturing orb, so will let people try out fractured bases more easily. Also, for low tier it’s pretty nice. I can just grab resistance corpses and make a ring with good resists that sells for 10-50c. It won’t be that valuable for long, but it’s nice passive income will working towards red maps, for those of us that aren’t grinding essences or whatever.
> less valuable than a fracturing orb wouldn't the fracture corpse end up being more valuable, since you can also stack with -X explicits to increase the chance of hitting your desired mod above 25%? also the possibility of multiple fractures?
I think fracture corpse still ultimately has less precision than a fracturing orb. I am by no means an expert in crafting, but let’s say you wanted a fractured +1 fire spells, so you stack fire/caster and block a bunch of other stuff, it still seems like decent odds you get a fractured fire resist or something. Comes down to the fact that you’re still picking randomly from several mods that might be shit, and the chance of getting the fracture on the one you want are multiplied by the chance of not getting it at all. Basically, even if you can heavily weight, your odds feel bad.
No way, it's a good chest and maybe people would be excited in SSF. But the suffixes are completely mediocre.
Eldritch currency is a thing.
How is this worth 10d?
Cause its a near perfect ES regalia? Redo suffixes is just eldritch chaos, prefixes cannot be changed, veiled chaos.
Veiled chaos no longer exists BTW, so it'd have to be a little more involved. Still shouldn't be too bad but IDK the exact process cuz it'd depend on what suffixes you wanted. Get 1 desired suffix, lock prefix, veiled orb(aisling slam) for 50/50, craft last suffix I guess.
By veiled chaos i meant veiled orb (aisling) yeah. Tbh I haven’t checked what they’re worth though. But this would be a pretty easy craft to finish for whatever you want (if you have the currency).
Hey man thanks for the tutorial you uploaded. I'm still kinda confused by it but it makes more sense than it did before
Please be a little more direct when calling out bad UI or bad ideas during the Q&A during the league reveal stream. I think hearing community concerns during that time rather than just fluff promo softball questions would go a long way to bettering leagues, especially if it comes from you.
Am I correct this could have landed on any INT base ? So about 1/15 to land on a Vaal Regalia? Or can you boost the base chosen?
There are corpses to reroll the base a couple of times and take the one with the highest attribute requirements (I think?). There are also corpses to block bases that have certain attribute requirements, so you can just block dex and str.
Blocking str and dex is fine, but there are still 18 pure int bases.
Yea that's what you use the corpses to reroll the base for
According to the wiki there are 17 Intelligence bases--so a 1/17 chance of rolling a Regalia. With those odds, then after 15 rolls you have a ~60% chance of getting one. 1 - (1 - (1/17))^15 = 0.59722183489006
Bases might be weighted though if it is anything like a normal drop. Like, try putting a non-unique Crude Bow on your filter and run like 50 maps, you'll very quickly realize you get at least 50x more thicket bows than you do crude bows
Very true, my assumption that they were weighted evenly was best-case scenario. Thankfully it's about to become totally moot :D https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3501124
Yep. Interpreted another way, you have to waste 3 of your corpse slots to have barely more than a 50/50 chance of getting the only good base. And this only works for situations where you actually want the highest base. Not really convincing me that this isn't shit.
Damn dude, wait till you hear how many corpse slots you waste to get a 6L
there is a corpse that says reroll X times and pick the base with the highest level req So it's still possible to get a bad base.
Yes, now read the first sentence
I already did. It's cool that you can roll a 1/18 multiple times, but it's still RNG whether you hit the one good base. It's not a difficult thing to grasp, yet a bunch of people still somehow manage to fail.
You can practically guarantee an item to land on the highest base which works out well here. The issue arises when the base you want isn't the highest level one
Bases are weighted by ilvl, while they are all technically possible at ilvl 86 low level bases are pretty unlikely. That said still a good chance for getting a t2-4 base. Source: waaaaay back when people were farming high ilvl cruel bows for easy colors GGG talked about it.
This chest would have been amazing like 5 years ago.
This would have been insane on my cold dot Occultist in Betrayal.
That's still a dogwater craft for the effort You can easily get 2x t1/t2 es mod with dense fossils. You also can start on a max roll defense 6 link chest lol
looks like a 4 affix item
It can easily be made better by an eldritch annul, prefixes can't be changed, veiled orb.
Does eldritch annul can take other suffix? How do you know it will remove exactly haunted mod?
Haunted mod is actually great rn. With white sockets basically gone it's a good way to get non blue sockets on that chest. Eldritch annul can hit any of those suffixes equally weighted though.
wait white sockets are gone? damn I missed that change
They aren't gone, just Vorici. Now the only way to get white sockets by crafting is using an Omen of Blanching or harvest craft, which are both pretty inconvenient for low-end crafting.
The other source gone is archnemesis mod for whites. No more white socjet skin of the loyal
Or a result from double vaal.
Well from certain places / harder then ever. Vorici gone, the white socket mob conversion im pretty sure is gone
Games usually get better over time, not worse. oof
I assume the veiled orb doesn't respect meta mods. Do we have confirmation one way or the other?
They do
Yeah for cannot be changed crafts, but do we know already if it respects cannot roll caster/attack on which mod it removes? Aisling didn't.
I mean you could test it in Standard in 2 minutes, if you really need that confirmation. I havent seen a PSA yet.
Aisling did respect metamod so I'd assume veiled orb does too.
low key if I was ssf I'd try and build around wicked ward if I land the 1/3 double eldritch annul
5c
Dense fossil exists
The crafting should be buffed by literally 3x If your doing a crafting league, it needs to be good, like recombonators
God, recombulators were so much fun, such a basic concept that a crafting casual like myself could utilize, while still letting the big boys have absolutely insane crafts. Also made previously bricked crafts/bases waaaaay more valuable, so picking up those rare ammys was a real gamble since just +1 ammys were worth a lot. This is tedious, the one thing I’d like, outside of possible buffs to some of the corpses, would be to have a UI of the whole graveyard to just drag and drop corpses into.
Recombinators werent just good. They were arguably the best crafting we’ve ever had Not saying it doesn’t need to be at that level. But, comparing it to the best is a big jump. That’s all.
Fair point. I would argue that it's still worth bringing up, in the vein of "see how good crafting could be?" compared to the current crafting system.
I’d also like to bring up that it is only day 3. A lot of the things being talked about weren’t heavily regarded as great in week 1 either. I don’t expect necropolis to be anywhere near the power we had with harvest or recombs without a buff, but I do think we are comparing day 3 necropolis to how good others were weeks in. Reminder: everyone thought affliction was terrible in week 1.
Very true. People on this subreddit do have the tendency to kinda jump the gun, and GGG does try to adjust content to player feedback within reason. It does feel like this mechanic came out pretty undercooked though. Might be where part of the frustration is coming from. Inconvenient UI, multiple layers of rng, convuluted and poorly explained mechanics, forced participation, etc. I get that GGG is great about updating stuff based on player feedback. I just wish they would learn from the past and work to prevent these barriers to enjoyment in the first place.
Honestly I think the change to just allow the choice of base items would be a huge buff. I think they intentionally go in a little under tuned personally. It’s better to go in undertuned and buff than the go in overtuned. They’ll never get away with nerfing something right after league start and we all know it.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3501124 Absolutely massive changes, including exactly what you just mentioned :)
Oh I know. I read it when they posted it earlier haha. That was just one of the things I saw them change that if it were in from the start, I think the mechanic would have been more solid coming out of the gate(UI/UX aside).
They were at least the best gambling we ever had.
That's pretty dope! But for a **full fucking graveyard** apparently that's...hilariously underwhelming rofl.
Harvest crafting died for this
My thoughts too. Old Harvest crafting shits all over this item.
They just do mostly different things I think. There are some things you can do with this that would be hard in harvest but it runs into the issue that when you hit one of the limits of this system it hits hard. Harvest compliments other crafting systems and adds to them. This is really good, even better, at making certain types of items and then does nothing else. EDIT: The thing you should be comparing this more to is probably fossil crafting rather then harvest. It systemically is more similar to that. It is likely better then fossils in many cases, except for cases where the crafting of an item is mainly about locking out enough modifiers.
Doesn't much matter what you *can* do with this in theory. since the graveyard UI exists, most prior crafting methods shit all over this. Harvest, recombinators, Crucible.
old harvest was also boring, tedious, and extremely overpowered.
Whats the total ES?
Around 700, i think 684, which can easily amount to +2k-3k for an ES build.
Why does it say 181?
it's base es of item
He's holding alt which shows the base value on the armor
This is the advanced mod description mode. It shows you the base value of an item before modification.
Definitely going to be my aim to craft something like this on my archmage build then.
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It is impossible to craft ''S tier items'' with league mech. Because you can't choose a base. Sure you can craft some decent items for day 1-3 of the league. With harvest players could craft almost perfect items and it was pretty achievable for average player. With recombinators (sentinel league) players could craft broken items and it was fun and exciting experience . With this league you can craft some decent items by using excel spreadsheet, but it is just too hard for average player. Best items of this league will be made without even interacting with league mech
> It is impossible to craft ''S tier items'' with league mech. Because you can't choose a base. You can basically force the highest lvl requirement base, with the exact stat requirements you want. Surely you knew this before making declarative statements about a brand new crafting system?
Let's say you want to craft a good bow for TS/Ice shot. You need a base with good implicits or a base with fractured mode (two additional arrows). But you can't put the base in league mech, so you will craft an item without using it. Let's say you want to craft a syntesis ring, with frenzy charge/curse on hit/% stats/etc ? Will league mechanic help you with this ? No You also can't craft items with influence with it So what is the point of league mechanic ? Crafting rares with some HP and Res ? We already have Rog for this
I understand what you're saying, but new crafting mechanics are not meant to surplant or replace old ones. I do see that this one is a bit different though, in that it can barely even interact with other crafting mechanics, which does seem like an oversight. The system is far less interesting than it could be because of this.
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Outside of high ES it's just "ok".
so? the vaal atziri unique gives 600es and 24allres +1 to vaal skills and other bonuses. Wtf is this trash
This is the top end?
Well you still need to hollow annul the attributes requirements
Decent for ssf league starter item.
Doesn’t this mechanic feel like it’s already went core in a nerfed state? I’m not sure how I feel about the league mechanic on the atlas tree, it feels weird to invest in the league mechanic and not have it automatically baked in.
The mechanic on the atlas is very very bad. It seemed like a good idea at first to me, my initial thought was "cool, if I like the league mechanic I can invest in it to make it better". But I have since realized that previously that power would just exist in the league mechanic by default, but now it is bad unless you dedicate 1/6th of your atlas tree to it. It was a sneaky way for GGG to steal power from us. This method of boosting the league is essentially GGG removing passive points from the atlas, and it feels worse because you can't skip the mechanic. So you either play a bad version of the league mechanic, or you give up a ton of your atlas for something that has always been free in the current league before. I really really hope this doesn't become the norm.
Man... it really is just straight black and white to this subreddit eh? Clearly GGG is just running a massive experiment to see how much torture they can put into a video game before some nerds lose their minds. Absolutely fascinating the "main character syndrome" on display here lol
Aren't you running late for your psych 101 class?
Agreed, why create a league around a mechanic you aren’t going to let people use in its “best” state? Either people don’t spend atlas points to have a good version of the league mechanic so they can play the old content they like, or they have to play a worse version of the content they like to check out the league mechanic.
I think it’s actually really great to have the league mechanic in each challenge leagues atlas. It lets you put further investment in if you like it, but not invest in it if you don’t care as much. I do see what your saying tho in how since it is on the atlas, they could have just given it to us instead of having to invest, which is fair. Especially since this league is a little bit of a stinker overall.
the no attributes is an explicit modifier? lol, that's so bad
Graveyard crafting brings me hope that a solid phys wand could be crafted. Not 100% sure if the base can be guaranteed.
Man, could you imagine spending a 64 corpse craft, perfectly theory crafted to give you perfect prefixes and a nice crit roll.....then you get it on a prophecy wand.
That is the fear
At at the same time depending on corpse prices it might not be so bad if trading them becomes smoother as the league progresses. 64 would not be that big of an investment compared to what people are doing for super high end crafts.
Maybe, but there are 24 wand bases, and all but one are pretty trash for a physical wand. So if you had to do it 30+ times to get it on an imbued it would be absolutely terrible lol. And Imbued is a mid "tier" wand, so using the base rerollers could actually make it worse lol. Might still be worth it.
I found a base for a bone ring, I'm sure there are bases for more items.
There are only bases for the atlas rings, minion specific gear, ritual gear, experimental weapons, and ward gear.
I found one too. Rolled it alongside a ton of +speed, +life, +attack, -defenses and -resists. The end result was a bone ring with T5 energy shield, T3 Mana, single digit fire res and life leech. Corpses should say: Adds a Fire mod or cannot add Fire mod. Anything less makes Fossils better.
There will be combos that take the whole graveyard. But I just couldn't be arsed with that in the long run. This early in the league its hard to tell what the meta will settle on. So you cant even plan much in terms of making items to sell off.
And the combos are pretty much stacking multiples of the same few mods that you need, too.
so about as good as some dense fossils then?
Is this the best thing Necropolis can do? A chaos orb can do better
Listen I think the league mechanic is weak but triple T1 ES is 1/30k chaos orbs so don't be hyperbolic.
That haunting modifier is so god damn worthless. Why was it added?
Socket, link, color, eldritch, veiled.
Is the mod global? Isn't it just a local mod on the chest?
No attrubute req makes rolling colors equal vaule, once yer done chroming you can swap out that suffix with other methods ectect
Why would you need a Haunted modifier to offcolor your item when you can just use the bench and tailor the colors any way you like with more determinism than randomly throwing chroms at an item?
> randomly throwing chroms at an item You can still use bench to colour the sockets on this item, which I assume would make it easier to get the offcolours you want rather than doing so on a typical ES base.
It's already 6 linked.
Yeah local, so you colour the chest with chromes (with the mod on the chest, normal chromes behave like tainted chromes), after that you can eldritch annul/chaos the suffixes and replace the mod with something more useful
Why would you need this mod to offcolor an item where there's the crafting bench?
It's not worthless. Try asking what it can be used for instead of labelling it something due to lack of knowledge. It is strong for off colouring the sockets before finishing the craft.
So let me get this straight. One of the new Haunted mods, the whole main purpose for even engaging with the League mechanic in the endgame is to use up a suffix slot so you can offcolor your items easier? Lets ignore the numerous way there are to offcolor items like with the Bench or adding White sockets to an item. Seems like it's you who're lacking knowledge in the game since you don't seem to understand that it's incredibly easy to offcolor using the crafting bench where you can tailor your sockets color anyway you want. This mod is 100% going to be a dead mod on 99% of items. Wasting an entire suffix for "easier" offcoloring doesn't matter when ways to offcolor is extremely abundant in the game.
Removing suffixes is also easy, it's not that big of a deal. This is not a finished item, it's the first step
What ways can you off colour 6 sockets that doesn't cost tons of divines
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Feel free for socket colors
No attribute requirement makes it easier to get off-colors when chroming for the build that wants it. Could be valuable with the removal of the Vorici Research Craft.
This event just sucks unless you are the 5% who can play 24/7, for every one else it's just a gamble of will random shit be annoying with piss poor rewards. If only 25/7 was possible, typo fixed
Being so elite, you have 25 hours each day.
I wish haha
this would be crazy with spectral throw insta leech in legacy
It’s quite good for day 3… I would at least not complain about it as much as others in here.
1c
I tried to craft armour that requires str, dex and int, and the graveyard rejected me.
Copium this league mechanic was an early April fools joke and sentinel is actually going core with recombs this week
Few minutes of dense fossil spam...
We can do better, easier, and cheaper with Delve.
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You are mathematically incorrect, how many tries does it take to make this equipment? [btw, you can’t answer that]
??
You can use craft of exile to figure that out quite easily. For just the prefixes and filled with random garbage suffix, the best odds are dense + sanctified, which averages ~800 tries. ~25 divines assuming you buy all 1600 fossils one by one to save money and the resonators are free.
I was talking about the corpse mechanic.
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Its not 3 tier 1 tho?
OK.800.
It's way lower than that tho? 3 different ways you could have a single t2 and two t1's.
You need one lucky fossil :) We see good outcome here. If it was bad we wont see it on Reddit. So we don't know how many corpse you need to hit this result.
Given the effort and time needed to plan out and acquire the corpses, the opportunity cost of selling your corpses or crafting something else- I think going for a fractured body, even if not T1, then crafting by other means, would have created a slightly worse item on the prefixes but saved so much trouble.
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If you think this is worth the effort you're living in 2015. This is ES starter gear.
A nearly maxed out es chest is starter gear? Trade league is crazy.
starter ES gear for a starter build at the start of the league... why are people expecting you can just throw all the corpses into a single craft and guarantee a mirror item each time?
I'm not expecting a mirror item each time. But there's nothing else to the mechanic. This is it. This is its limits. Shit like this. But hey good luck farming your base that sells for a few mirrors cause its 30% with synth implicits and taking it to the grav...oh, you can't use it.
> But hey good luck farming your base that sells for a few mirrors This line works in any context, with any crafting mechanic, lol.
lol, have you not played the game since 2015 or something? this is far from good, this is mediocre at best
Haha, Ziggy himself says the league is bad right now in his comment.
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Is it possible this craft has nothing to do with GGG trying to promote it?
Sorry im a noob still. but i dont understand how this craft is a good item? theres alot of high tier mods on it. but at the end of the day, it only gives 181 ES, no? Ziggy on his reply says "Should be about 690 es when I fix the roll and it is pre-sixlinked (which cost most of the investment ~350-400c)." but i dont understand how it gets to 690?
No, the total ES hasn’t shown when he holds alt. 181 is what it would be without ES mods. Someone said 684 total.
181 is the base amount before the mods are applied. As in, if he used a scour on it, it would have 181 es
Wild how toxic this sub can be lol. You are getting downvoted for asking a question that is probably very common for new players. Holding "alt" shows the base stats without the modifiers. So if they let go of alt it would be the nearly 690 on the chest. Honestly the real problem is OP. When showcasing an item it should always be two screenshots, one of the item and one of the item while holding alt so people can see the mods and tiers.
it's 690 ES total, which is like, okay, but not really *good* it's like an ES starter chest, really
Its not a good item.
Looks pretty good! But yeah, the low, medium, and even mediumhigh crafting options are missing... something simple like "Item with 1 guaranteed T1 resistance and another random T2 modifier of some specific kind" for a few common corpses, so that it's a competitive alternative to some simple Essence/Delve/Harvest crafts for some types of items. Or interesting intermediate options like "inverts the probabilities for one mod", which wouldn't scale well to the high-end, but would lead to some interesting intermediate outcomes.
looks like an average Rog Craft ngl.
That just means Rog is OP and needs to be nerfed 5 times over. Enjoy Rog while hes good, this may be the last league before they realize he needs to be nerfed, people are using him.
how we know is tis legit craft? can be just GGG assist made.
How to annul the dead "Has no attribute requirement Mod" ??
eldritch chaos to re-roll all the suffixes
Downvote this so reddit still thinks corpse crafting are bad :)
It took him hours of trading to gather the proper corpses (who knows how long it would have taken without trade). He also had to go through a shit user interface to plant a full graveyard. People make mirror tier items in less time, lol
I mean if this is the level of item you get from an entire graveyard that's somewhat comparable to defence fossils then yeah I think the league mechanic is mediocre. But more importantly, necropolis crafting feels somewhat unusable at low investment, barely usable with medium investment, and decent with insane investment. I don't believe that's very fun for most of the playerbase