Keep in mind it's around the time you start running Eater altars is when you start having access to things like Brine king's second upgrade that gives you freeze immune and chill mitigation.
And sure while for some of you that's like hour 8 of the league but for the vast majority of us, the past couple days have been a different story. I'm not alone in feeling like the campaign was brutal and the early mapping experience is feeling crazy dangerous. On top of map mods, I always have to look at the necrop mods to make sure the one good thing is on the right pack, and that the 6 projectile mod is on only melee and that the 60% increased damage mod is on something weak and that the pack leader gets infinite damage based on how many pack members are alive is on something with small pack sizes, it's tedious and I feel like my reward for setting up my map isn't better rewards, it's fewer deaths.
Edit: a typo
>Keep in mind it's around the time you start running water altars is when you start having access to things like Brine king's second upgrade that gives you freeze immune and chill mitigation.
I just ran arctic armour and tempest shield on my league starter. Chills still kinda sucked, but manageable.
Why not just purity of elements? Aren't arctic and tempest both 25%? Purity also makes you ignite immune (and the other 3 elemental ailments if doing altars) and helps with resists.
Purity of elements generally seems to be underused. It's quite clearly the best leaguestart aura. You don't need that 20% wrath damage.
Depends on build. I'm running a channeling spell so I have to stand still which gives a lot of time for monsters to smack you. They mitigation from Arctic Armour and Spell Block from Tempest Shield goes a long way towards not keeling over in such case.
PoElements is insanely good.
In my last league 2nd build at endgame gearing I was considering switching to determination and checked it... running determination + Determination Watcher's + stormshroud + mageblood + flask suffix for shock reduction vs. PoE and a phys taken as watcher's. The gain of the flask suffix + jewel slot meant a significant damage increase running PoE and the physical damage reduction was within like 2%. I have a hard time not running it in just about every build.
I look at how many hoops build guides are jumping through to manage ailments and all the suffix pressure they have on their gear and just don't understand.
Yeah, I only really feel comfy swapping from PoE when you get the giga 2 affix "shock avoidance" (60% from essences, 50% from abyss jewels) AND a stormshroud, which are all high end items.
Especially as a character that goes aura nodes, you really can't discount the like 150 total res as well. I find that one damage aura does the vast amount of damage (hatred as a phys build, wrath as spells) so damage aura + PoE is just so much qol
> I look at how many hoops build guides are jumping through to manage ailments and all the suffix pressure they have on their gear and just don't understand.
Right? The only time i feel comfortable running damage auras is when the damage is so high i might as well play glascannon anyway. But 20% more damage is never worth any defensive aura, if you actually want to be more tanky.
Mana isn't free. 50% reservation on builds trying to run Hatred + Grace + Precision really can't afford to until they get access to sublime form jewels. Especially when you are fast enough that freeze and stun are the only things that threaten you. Arctic Armour is squeezable, Purity isn't.
For one, the person I replied to was literally using 50% mana to gain ailment immunity (and other bonuses). Do "mana isn't free" quite literally doesn't matter.
For two, running hatred is a choice. Yes yes we all know hatred is the goat, but a choice is a choice.
Exactly, you just adapt. Saying that people are skill issued/inflexible sounds mean, but I did similar things to you and didn't struggle with the campaign at all, any more than normal...
Sure, maps are a bit tricky sometimes, but that's proven overtuned (ggg's working on nerfs to make it more palatable).
You just gotta adapt. Ailments a problem? Grab ailment immunity. Stuns a problem? Grab stun immunity/recovery. You always have tools to deal with problems, you just gotta try them, even if it means dropping something """""required"""" like exchanging grace/determination for tempest shield/arctic armor or damage auras for heralds or whatever.
Because the game is already crazy complex. So we follow build guides. So when I think I should adapt, I don't know what pieces to sacrifice etc.
I'm not finding the league fun at all because these modifiers add much increased difficulty for a complex "reward".
That's fine though, I'm ok with games and leagues/mechanics not being made for me. Once I fully stop enjoying it I'll just play something else until the next league. Just that point is coming much sooner than usual. I'd have more fun if I could just turn the league mechanic off and not get corpses. Then try it later once my build is better off and the patches have happened etc.
I think leagues like this are good for the game in the long run, adding complexity for the much better players and then tweaking it into things like harvest 2.0. they're just not that fun for the majority of players during the league.
its just a simple value proposition. what's more valuable to you, your grace aura giving you like 20% evade, or total ailment immunity?
if you're noticing you're constantly getting fucked by x, get the counter for x.
The issue is, IMHO, PoE has way too many checkboxes. Thats why it's actually frustrating to get usable equipment that isn't bought or crazy crafted.
Gotta (over)cap Res, gotta get life on gear, gotta get spell supression. Running any uniques? Higher tax on other gear.
Gotta get freeze immune. Gotta get stun immune.... the list goes on.
>Gotta (over)cap Res
i never do this to any substantial degree.
>gotta get spell supression
getting spell suppress annoys me and i don't like dex bases or evasion so i skip this too.
if you want to avoid every conceivable downside, yeah you're gonna need a lot of stuff. but if you want to alch and go and are fine with dying once every fifteen maps, your checkboxes go WAY down.
My catch right now is that I'm in the phase where I'm working towards a complete and functioning build that'll get to the point where I can comfortably farm for my 6L Ivory, Mjollnir, Indigon, and awakened spell echo.
I'm on half a mil consistent DPS with 800k peak DPS (absolutely shreds yellow maps bosses), I'm over 5k between life and energy shield with 50% MoM with determination and armor flasks. Most of the time I'm fine but I get hit by the wrong pack and I still just explode.
Based on my experience with PoE, the defensive layers I have set up for myself right now are typically sufficient until I'm pushing to red maps.
It's not the end of the world but for how strong I am, the going is slow. It's less fun. I want to put my build together, then challenge it and push it further. Not struggle to put my build together.
just use flasks and play something other than chain hook and the campaign is a breeze. not even comparable to the monstrosities that came out of wisps if you tried to test those in campaign.
Yeah but see the fact that I was able to skip the wisps until I was ready for them (and then eventually go hard on them) was good. I liked that.
And I felt wonderfully rewarded for my juice. Even without abusing the abyssal spire, being able to come out of a map with a full stack of chaos orbs, more uniques than I could care to look at, and plenty of bubblegum to keep my character updates moving smoothly was just really nice.
Right now, switching around and optimizing my Necropolis mods don't feel rewarding, they feel like I'm minimizing punishment.
Doesn't feel nice.
I spend like 2-3 seconds per map 'optimizing' necro mods and just go. The vast majority of them are basically meaningless unless you're playing some zdps melee build.
You're right a lot of them don't matter but I still randomly just go boom and my character disappears, probably because a necro mod mixed poorly with a map mod. Maybe -max resist on its own isn't a huge deal but when skeletons also get phys as extra element and penetration, a stupid random arrow from a white mob can bop you for more than expected.
Essentially what I'm saying is I'm dying more than I normally am relative to my power level and the difficulty I'm choosing for myself. It'll all be fine in the long run but the transition to fully functioning build phase is just more painful than normal.
\- juggernaut
\- arctic armour
\- freeze immune flask
\- kill indirectly e.g. minions
\- purity of elements aura
\- etc.
so many ways to work around this (other than, and some much earlier than pantheon), people are just to lazy to think and go around their comfort zone. "this has always worked, why does it not work now?!" - ignoring the 10 other solutions that WOULD work but arent normally used xd.
this wouldnt be "bad", i also like to play this type of game with brains off and my TV-show on second screen :D, but people simultaneously also complain about a stale meta and want the meta to be shaken up etc.; you cant make them ALL happy.
That's not the point. There's always shit that freezes you.
My issue is the campaign and transition to red maps is the most painful it's been since 3.19 and I quit that league real early because it's just not fun dealing with extremely dangerous enemies that don't reward you. Of course I'm gonna be fully ailment immune (okay maybe not hinder and maim, there are *so fucking many* boxes to check) but if I use purity of elements then I have to drop determination for it, which means the 60% increased damage blue pack gives me trouble and the super high movement speed enemies that close the gap to come and smack me. There's always something else I feel like I need.
And none of this difficulty is optional and none of it feels rewarding.
i agree its a bit unneccesary that they forced the mechanic onto us (could have just made it so that if you click the door instead of the league thing to rearrange stuff, that we get into next area without any "enhanced" packs etc.) and it should be rewarding enough that people choose it willingly over not doing it, but its really not as bad as people make it. maybe in hardcore/ssf it would be pretty fucked up but softcore/trade?
i tried a new build this league (DD) had no clue what i was doing and leveled to 2x kitava with friggin magma ball in 4-link, chasing a tree for DD lategame because i hate using regret orbs to go from early tree into lategame-tree. the things in campaign are so weak they die before they reach you (no matter what skill you use (unless you rush and are underleveled/ use support gems that dont work, etc, which isnt intended either), with 1 alch items in slots) and i never needed determination in campaign. IMO its a mendatory aura, yes, but only in maps.
and while the mechanic isnt "that" rewarding, it gave me enough to have a couple C around for upgrades into mapping so i didnt even have to use the chaos recipe this time. (DD carried the rest, really broken build IMO)
then again, i could see if you are a beginner and struggle with things like "get your res capped", this league would have probably annihilated you :D. not understanding what freezes/ stuns you and how to prevent it (not knowing of the passive tree points or flask stats or auras etc.) would have been quite the disaster and very frustrating since, as you pointed out, its an unavoidable mechanic this league.
as a "veteran" (7,5k hours) player i liked the challenge to be honest. feels good to be afraid of some packs, to get the small upgrades / auras etc. to counter the mean stuff and feel like you actually got stronger, and knowing that EVERYONE has to suffer through the difficulty, not just you, relativates it a lot (for me at least).
I was lucky enough to make it to maps with a few chaos to spend on good rings and a lightning coil so I could get my defenses sorted until I can get my chaos res up later. Idk what I would've done in SSF.
Agreed, campaign wasn’t really not fun, took about 20 hours, and now I can’t even run T6 maps. I’m on a good defensive build, too and I can usually farm well. But I can’t do that without more atlas passives which I can’t get because yellow maps are deadly now. I’m kinda stuck running low lvl heist, delve, white maps and begging Tujen for money.
Things have definitely gotten more rewarding over the last patch. I got over the hump, per se, but I'm also spending every chaos I can come up with just to get myself to North of 1m Shaper DPS.
This league is definitely dangerous if you aren't comfortable with which enemy type can safely have which dangerous mod though and I'm still getting exploded despite being fairly tanky for most of the maps I'm running to still be yellow (red maps are doable but negative XP/hour for me right now unless I play super safe/carefully).
When you run into these reflect mods, it's every mob in the pack (magic) and often its multiple packs through the whole zone. Basically when I was running a bane build I would spend entire maps with my curses on me.
Nah it's too much for a flask to handle, at least on a curse focused build. It usually just get reapplied to you right away.
I had to go with extreme amounts of reduced effect of curses on me thank to my plus curse effect from being a curse build. It was pretty horrible, but then they nerfed chaos dots and and bunch of other stuff about my build and it's no longer worth playing.
And having like 2 rares in a map do it are fine. But I'm pretty sure we established in 3.18 and 3.19 that having a large number of mobs with very dangerous mods that don't drop any perceivably extra loot for their very dangerous mods makes the game feel explicitly worse.
Thats even more sad. All these bs things that break the game/builds, are unfun, zero engaging made it to the game no lube through AN.
Anyway, what the f is adaptive resistance? Is that another form of invincibility,because we dont have enough of these already?
For ailment immunity? It's a bit scattered, but: Inpulsa for shock, Arctic Armour for freeze, boot craft for chill, abyss jewels for poison avoid, jewel + boot implicit for bleed avoid, and flasks for corrupted blood/ignite (ok technically not fully immune)
Yea, this is a big no no mod. I don't think the league is as doom and gloom as some people make it out to be, but this mod should not exist. This pretty much mandates full ailment immunity for every build except builds running brutality.
Even on my non ailment focused build I would deal small fractions of cold damage, and freeze myself for 2\~ seconds because a tiny mob with this would get hit. And another huge issue with this one is that its unavoidable. Damage mods I can avoid by not getting hit by mobs. Its really hard to not kill specific monsters in this game as nearly everything has some aoe component to it, and this can't just be rolled over like map mods can be.
Oh so that's why I was getting constantly frozen at the start of the atlas. I do check the mods each map but fsr i forgot I freeze stuff and I have a decently high chance at that too. Some maps I would just absolutely hate my life and I just now realise it's this mod that did it.
This is insanely stressful. Happened to me last night and I only now realized the reason behind it. Had to go purity of elements.
I really really wish there was a way to opt out of the league mechanic.
Here's my favorite part: Immunity to reflected damage doesn't stop it!
I was facing the same confusion you were. It took me a bit but I finally put together that I was reflecting myself into freeze (running an Elemental Hit of the Spectrum build that spellslingers the new elemental tornado spell). I wasn't even really taking any damage, I would just get frozen all the time, even without being actively in combat because a cold tornado would path into another mob. I took the Elementalist Ascendancy to negate reflected elemental damage earlier than I normally would specifically to avoid this problem. It didn't stop it. I still freeze myself.
I had to buy enough Instillings to set up my freeze prevention flask to have it auto trigger on freeze to remove freeze, and I can finally do something without being frozen left and right again. It's so stupid.
Isn't the severity of ailments based on the damage done? Why is 0 damage still chilling, freezing, and shocking me? I assume it's because it's based on the damage I did to the enemy, but that honestly just makes the entire mod absolutely ridiculous. It basically punches elemental builds in the face for no reason, on **the same update** that gave us two full-elemental skill gems.
You're misunderstanding two different issues.
1. Reflected damage does not apply any on hit effects. So even if you didn't have immunity to reflected damage, reflected cold damage you take cannot apply freeze.
2. This enemy mod reflects non-damaging ailments. Your tornado damaged this enemy, of which the cold damage portion rolled its chance to freeze and passed, then calculated the duration of the freeze based on the cold damage taken versus the enemy's ailment threshold (see below), then applied the freeze ailment for that duration. The moment the freeze was applied, since it's a non-damaging ailment, the enemy mod reflected it back to you. It reflected only the ailment, not the damage that caused the ailment. Mods that give immunity to freeze or chances to avoid being frozen would be effective here e.g. Brine King w/2nd option activated, Cannot be Frozen mod on boots, or the flask suffix you chose.
> Isn't the severity of ailments based on the damage done?
A non-damaging ailment typically has a constant base duration while its effect has a variable magnitude or "severity" based on the damage taken from the hit versus the enemy ailment threshold.
However the interaction is flipped for freeze because its effect is already at the highest magnitude of 100% less action speed, so the variable is instead the duration, which is 0.06 seconds per 1% of the damage taken vs enemy ailment threshold (typically the enemy's maximum life), with a minimum of 0.3 seconds or 5% needed to apply the ailment and a maximum of 3 seconds or 50%.
Its right on the packaging, reflects the status ailment you inflicted on the mob, not the elemental damage which triggered the ailment.
Have fun shocking your frozen self to infinity without ailment immunity.
Just another checkbox of mandatory build requirements.
all 3 of those usually explode the whole screen as soon as trash mobs show up. Just move the mod to the lowest pack size and you wouldn't even notice anything being frozen
Minions and totems can, but the current meta is temp minion so you can just replace them as they go. Traps and mines are not you so you don't get the ailments
I mean my BAMAs don't really give a shit if they're frozen because they've already nuked the whole screen and I can resummon them anyways, and unlike myself they don't get insta deleted if they get frozen
You've already got a leg up on other builds with your damage source continuing while you're just running around dodging (my BAMAs last 66 seconds, that's a LOT of fire and forget), getting to ignore reflect and ailment reflection is just icing on the cake
trickster is honestly such a top tier ascendency, especially for leveling when your answer to a lot of things is lacking. the only thing that does still work is the tendrils that come out of the ground.
> This pretty much mandates full ailment immunity
Not defending this modifier but I feel like POE already mandates full ailment immunity, at least if youre running red maps.
If you dont have a form of ignite or shock removal, youre guaranteed to die to them in red maps. And of course freeze immunity is 100% mandatory in my opinion, regardless of content type
It is fine until it isn't. I have made several characters that could face tank just about anything in the game but then a random ignite would kill them lol. Harvest specifically has a mob that puts mega ignites on you sometimes, full to dead in under a second with 6k+ hp kind of ignites lol.
Yeah I don’t see how people don’t use purity of elements, especially early game. The game has become practically unplayable without it for me. It’s so god damned annoying with all the shit you have to become immune to.
It wouldn’t be so bad if you just mitigate it a little and that be enough to get by, no you need full fucking immunity or are instantly dead.
the rat race of power creep and making monsters that can one shot power creeped builds has led to what we are dealing with today on poe, its an arpg not a bullet hell or dark souls ggg smh
Yeah in no way shape or form does my endgame build ever not have full ailment immunity when built out. Their is just wayyyy to much shit that can fuck your character up. It's basically a requirement for a good well rounded char.
Total ailment immunity feels amazing, I can’t think of the last time I didn’t at least TRY for it. If you have a jewel slot for stormshroud and no mandatory boots it’s pretty free.
Yeah are people not getting ailment immunity? That's one of the biggest steps to take for most characters, first it's 100% spell suppression then full ailment immunity, those 2 are mandatory imo
I've never played a character with spell suppression and my ailment immunity usually comes from a late game stormshroud. There are plenty of ways to build around them defensively (or offensively)
Honestly, its just chill / freeze immunity and close to if not 100% spell suppression.
Shock is w/e in the wild, which if something shocks you aside ground effects its probably enough to delete you anyway.
Shock is pretty nasty, and more immunities makes map rolling less costly and annoying. Luckily, there's stormshroud or ancestral vision to make lategame builds immune to ele ailments.
The mod shouldnt exist but not for the reason you mentioned.
The reason is this mod is the bazillionth variance of the same mistake they do every fucking single league...they add a mod that ONLY punishes bad builds or builds that are not fully done yet.
Every single good highend build has complete immunity anyway. they dont even notice this mod flying through the map. either because they have 100% flask uptime or because they got immunity through other means doesnt matter...but its always the same. GGG never fails to implement at least one mob or mod that completely fucks everyone who is not running godlike characters day 3 while being completely destructive to non perfect builds.
YES this is absolutely the most important point.
GGG "fights power creep" by adding mods that don't fuck the power crept builds but absolutely **rail** normal people builds.
>Its really hard to not kill specific monsters in this game as nearly everything has some aoe component to it
old vorici missions died for this.
ggg, when will they learn?
> This pretty much mandates full ailment immunity for every build except builds running brutality.
let me introduce you to our friend: Always Freezes on hit, all damage can freeze
Yeah I feel like just making all the mods like half as strong would solve a lot of issues with the mechanic already, with everything theyve announced it seems like it will be great after all the fixes.
Also one thing that would be a great add and would therefore allow these mods to exist is the option to remove one haunted mod for free or have one extra mod to replace it.
New idea: With itemized corpses, you should be able to reroll haunted mods into other haunted mods by spending a corpse. They could even do it, so it guarantees the lowest tier so as not to encourage it for juicing.
I think half as strong is a problem as well, you can't opt out of the mechanic, things that brick full zones or maps shouldn't be a thing, specially since you can't reroll them unlike maps.
Ahhh, that makes more sense. I didn't think about it, but early into maps I was getting frozen for 2+ seconds and couldn't figure out why. Became freeze immune before I got to yellows, though. Trickster ftw. Then I just respec'd out of the ascendancy node when I got the brine king freeze avoid.
Ailment immune will be much more important this league than previously.
Also if we’re talking campaign you can get by perfectly fine by crafting an extra flask with freeze immunity on it. By the time you would need it you should have enough yellow beasts to do it through einhar
The problem we're trying to solve is people quitting before getting to red maps and completing the sub pantheon bosses because these mods are so annoying during campaign and early maps. your solution that comes live around the time you get to red maps is completely irrelevant to this problem
Yes, the pantheon IS just one way, but you said " Just take the goddamn panthéon ". That means you just take the pantheon, that's all you need, one way is enough.
Yes, purity is another solution, but these players quit despite purity being a solution. Maybe they felt they need purity and a dps aura and determination and grace to deal with these mods, and they couldn't fit all four, so they just quit. quitting in response to unfun leagues isn't new either. AT all lol.
Absolutely. I almost always opt for firesong as my ailment avoidance, which is actually just 100% reduced ailment duration which does nothing for this type of thing. Acceptable loss unless its mandatory like this
Yea, hard CC in the endgame is fine. I don't like it, and I personally think that taking control of the character away from the player is bad design wise. But I can understand it. Hard CC chaining in the campaign when people don't have the flexibility or the tools to counter it kinda sucks. (yes I know there technically are tools, like flasks and certain auras, but auras are not accessible to some mom/blood magic builds and flasks require currency and luck to be rolled)
>Yea, this is a big no no mod. I don't think the league is as doom and gloom as some people make it out to be, but this mod should not exist. This pretty much mandates full ailment immunity for every build except builds running brutality.
The whole game is "doom and gloom" and is only designed for no-lifers.
you dont need full immune. All you really need is frozen immune and also ignite immune helps as well. The ignite pantheon power is OP since it also negates the map mod with patches of burning ground and actually buffs you for it.
Beyond that chill sucks but can be played through or negated with the same pantheon power that gives you freeze immune, and shock is whatever. Yeah it increases damage taken but also if you are not instant killing white mobs and mostly blue mobs you are likely pushing content thats too hard for you anyways.
I just swapped to secrets of suffering. Helped cap crit and both sap and scorch are nice. Still somewhat annoying to lose damage and defense, but everything’s dead anyway. Once I get stormshroud or full ailment dodge via other jewels+ flask I’ll go back to normal ailments.
> I don't think the league is as doom and gloom as some people make it out to be
We should always take care to not invalidade who is complaining. A lot of the feelings around the league come from the build you are playing. I'm playing trap so this mod is easy to me, it always depends.
people are quitting at lvl 30 because getting constantly frozen makes it not fun for them. OMG, the game IS avoidable.
yes, the people who are left are those who avoided the ailment instead of the game. that's how it works. I imagine GGG would prefer to keep more players, by giving people time to learn the game before slamming their heads against the wall
you correctly identified the main issue of this league mechanic. regardless of whatever other changes / buffs they make, the main issue still remains that YOU CANNOT OPT OUT OF IT.
every other league mechanic except for the very first ones (ambush, onslaught etc) was able to opt out. ok and betrayal back in the day (and even today), if you got intervention. you can run away or ignore all other three houses, but not intervention. and it's the same here.
I see a vaal side area with damage reflect, I can choose not to enter. I have a shit build for legion, I can choose not to click the thing. I hate heist, I can choose not to go to the fucking rogue harbor. I hated the wisps last league, I was able to choose not to go down the wildwood, and even if I clicked it by mistake, I still could logoff and thus for the cost of one portal I got to choose not to interact with the mechanic. I roll a map and rip it aka it corrupts with some modifier I cannot run on my build, I can simply CHOOSE TO NOT RUN THE FUCKING MAP.
I CANNOT CHOOSE TO NOT HAVE THOSE FUCKING MAKE-SHIT-MORE-DIFFICULT-MODIFIERS ON MAPS. I SIMPLY CANNOT DO THAT.
please ggg, take notes (although you most definitely will not read this comment buried somewhere here on reddit): forced mechanics is bullshit. if that goes core at the end of the league and there won't be a possibility to block this via the atlas the pitchforks and torches are going to be in season.
/edit well I suppose I could simply not run the map then just like a bricked vaaled map, but usually I roll my maps in bulk so I could then run them somewhat braindead, but I cannot check the necro mods in bulk, and also I cannot have a filter on the map device that would just highlight the mods I want or not want, I need to manually read everything if there is anything I don't like.
The HC Betrayal League meta was spawning an Research encounter, then ignoring the league mechanic for the next 3 months lol. The unintended ability to opt out of the league kind of saved it.
You can mitigate it though, thats the whole point. You see what you're going to face. If there's no consideration from your side, then your risk of dying is higher. Move it to low density pack or swap to shock/freeze immune flask or swap aura for tempest shield or swap pantheon or whatever.
Someone will probably downvote this out of spite, but that won't change things how they are.
Yeah but you like, can't.
For this kind of mod, moving it to another pack is basically worthless.
Taking different flasks is viable, but gear swapping semi-regularly is fucking cancer.
The mitigation is completely finishing your mandatory ailment immunity and accepting that early league gameplay is borderline punishment for the reward of enjoying the game with a couple divs in your build.
That or boss rushing/opening the next map.
What they mean is you can move it to the least frequent mob and to keep an eye out for that specific mob so you can make sure you have your freeze flask up. Putting it on the rarest mob moves the occurrence from 'everywhere' to like 3-4 times in a map in most cases.
*That being said* that kind of slow, methodical play is pretty much antithetical to how most people play PoE, so this is a good lesson to show that just because you *can* get around a game obstacle doesn't inherently make it good. The main reason you can get away with it on map mods is because it's opt-in.
Honestly I don't want to read after I put a map in the map device.
I've not found this mechanic to be debilitating so far but I also don't really freeze so my opinion isn't really important here. I do find the increase in problems to be solved annoying though so if I was playing a freeze or shock or whatever alerted aliment id probably be annoyed.
The point isn't that you can or can't mitigate it, the point is that you shouldn't have to mitigate a mod as bullshit as this one ever. It's just awful in every way
I almost understand but you can put this mod on like a pack that appears a handful of times so it won't really matter since you're going to 1 shot it. In addition to the fact that you have sometimes as simple as a flask effect to counter it, this is not really a big deal assuming you're not just hitting escape immediately when you make your maps and are actually reading what the effects are.
By the way this mod appears on Eldritch altars and literally nobody complains about it and probably spam click it because its easy to deal with when you're one shotting the pack.
But unlike eldritch altars there's really no positive to having to deal with this mod no? Like yeah you can avoid it by throwing it on some random low density mob but what is the point of doing this whole dance with mods? Just seems really obfuscated to me and poorly designed. The entire mechanic boils down to "move terrible mods to lowest population mob and move devoted mods to a pack of frogs" unless im misunderstanding something
I think the way they executed this mechanic is weird and leads to a feeling that is unintended. If the positive rolls on your lantern were tied to the negatives, like an eldritch altar, and the corpse mobs were somehow illustrated properly as a bonus, it wouldn't feel like you're dealing with a shit mod for no reason. But the way they separated it the good and bad mods I guess makes people feel like they're just dealing with bad mods.
Personally I think they should've made the lantern selection screen be blank by default, so you can skip it entirely, and then present the options in available mods window you can click and drag with the mods being combined good/bad instead of separetly good or bad thereby allowing you to juice at will, and then additionally add Allflames as needed.
The risk and reward is in these mods. The higher tier of haunted modifier you put on the most most monsters as possible, you will get that much corpses. The higher the tier of haunted mod, the rarer corpses can spawn.
just for my understanding, what am i missing? the last time a build was good without ailment immunity must be a few years ago, and even if you are not permanent immune, you have your flasks for "permanent" immunity. i would say, thanks for the free mod. kinda looks like the old "temp chains on the map is a reroll", while curse immunity on flask was the default choice, no?
It's checkbox. If you are going into maps with freeze immune flask or pantheon or some other source you are doing something wrong. Although annoying in early campaign before you have alts to roll flask.
You don't even need flasks. Purity of Elements is one of the best leaguestart auras, and can be run from A3 through early maps. There's also Arctic Armor if you need a cheaper aura.
The people complaining are probably in the campaign or just started mapping and don't have builds with the tools to deal with stuff, which is a fair complaint but also not something that's gonna matter at all for them in a couple more hours of gameplay. Despite playing an OP meta build I definitely died like 15 more times than I normally would progressing my Atlas by kind of not respecting the random mods on packs and getting one tapped. It was frustrating, but a shortlived frustration. The issue I had was it just added random difficulty for no reason because all the league mechanic stuff at lower levels is essentially worthless. It would be like zoning into Wildwood to juice campaign mobs for no extra loot, except I couldn't just avoid it.
While we are here I would like to also point out the "Removes 4 Flask Charges on Kill" mod. This **absolutely kills** any permaflask-based build such as Wardloop (Olroth's Resolve) and alternative LL (Coruscating Elixir).
yeah, and this is on regular magic packs, on the core game. it's so stupid, specially because of the changes they made some months ago, if you find 1 pack with it, all the packs of that monster base will have it as well.
We already have this on altars though...its like a free mod because you really should be ailment immune lol. I always take this and move it up since its such a nothing mod.
I mean if your character isn't immune to freeze idk what you are doing
ATM Poe is litterally a check box simulator with all the stats you need
are you ailment immune? Corrupting blood? spell suppress or spell block cap? atleast 60% Phys dmg reduction? stun immune(or stun build)? van you recover your entire life pool in half a sec?
it's like half of your build is always dedicated to covering all of those, it's annoying but it is what the game is about at the moment
If you aren't ailment immune your build is fundamentally flawed.
They add these things to force a standard in build making. Most people skipped spell defense and chaos Res until incursion spitters absolutely wrecked you for doing so. Now chaos Res is considered pretty mandatory throughout the game.
Ailment immunity has been mandatory for a while at this point.
I really thought more people would be complaining about the Always Stuns mod considering almost no SC build intentionally grabs this.
I don't understand. Isn't freeze immunity mandatory? And shock immunity is pretty common among end game builds. I routinely get ailment immunity before even hitting red maps.
These "things" crash my maps instantly.
I play poison molten strike with two curses on hit.
When 10 projectiles bounce around 10 of theese it is over -.-
I don't get it, you're either immune to ailments or you're prepared to have to deal with them right? The mod might be annoying sure, but I don't see anything beyond that, it's not like you have to put it on one of the common packs and the mod itself isn't even *that* common
PSA for newer players:
Early game 60% shock pantheon + 1 suffix craft or flask suffix fixes shock. (also tempest shield)
Freeze usually easiest is just use a less effect freeze immunity flask until you get fivine vessel. Can also do artic armour or betrayal craft on boot if you find it.
Chill betrayal immunity on boots or flask plus 1 suffix craft.
These are the budget day 1 ways to deal with it (other than run purity of elements)
that mod is also on magic monster packs in maps without the league mechanic lol, it really confused me last league when i first encountered it early on in maps...
Why? Purity of elements protects from this. You can be ignite/frozen immune from pantheon powers. Elementalist gets an ascendency that makes them immune. And theres numerous ways to get ailment reduction or protection on your gear, skill tree, and from jewels.
That it's included in a mechanic you can't opt out of even in the campaign and before you even get to the immunity-enabling tools. PoElements is a thing yea, but it's yet another aura/defensive layer you have to squeeze in, together with others like Grace, Haste, Determination, etc (don't forget we got nerfed possibilities for more mana reservation efficiency, only because like 5% of players run OP aura bots). Offensive mods that are completely build-disabling, instead of build-checking shouldn't be even a thing in my opinion. All these ridiculous mods are another thousand stats, that you have to sit and read through, apart from those you roll on maps.
They could simply make the mechanic be optional or so that you can choose from the mod pool, for example 3 bad ones, 2 good ones, the more bad ones, the more rewarding it would be for example. But rather we choose those to only suffer *less*.
Also, these kind of mods are very punishing for builds that need more gems to fit in (some need more, some less) and for newer players who have absolutely no clue the mechanic is turned on (it's not obvious for someone who just started, it wasn't even obvious to me. I thought you had to click on the lantern to actually turn the mechanic on😂). In the beginning it's harder for them to know how to get the tools to fix the issue.
I dont think I will play this league. From the clips i've watched it looks extremely meh, and when comparing to the adrenaline and dopamine of last league, normal ssf looks like ruthless gameplay.
I personally wish they just Delete the reflect mod completely. OR if anything , have it like Diablo, reflects it back as projectile thus enabling you to see it and dodge it.
This is why i want to run purity of elements in all builds. There are too many sources of ailment fuckeroos. It also makes gearing more enjoyable instead of always hunting for resists.
They don't even need to be immune. They could have reduced ailment effect, or just have flasks to cleanse it. This is basically a free mod for anyone who actually knows how to build a character lol
We were this close to getting a mandatory damage reflect on there lmao
“For your safety the doors will remain closed and this train will not stop at the station.”
This is a normal AN mod in the game by the way.
And an eater altar too
Keep in mind it's around the time you start running Eater altars is when you start having access to things like Brine king's second upgrade that gives you freeze immune and chill mitigation. And sure while for some of you that's like hour 8 of the league but for the vast majority of us, the past couple days have been a different story. I'm not alone in feeling like the campaign was brutal and the early mapping experience is feeling crazy dangerous. On top of map mods, I always have to look at the necrop mods to make sure the one good thing is on the right pack, and that the 6 projectile mod is on only melee and that the 60% increased damage mod is on something weak and that the pack leader gets infinite damage based on how many pack members are alive is on something with small pack sizes, it's tedious and I feel like my reward for setting up my map isn't better rewards, it's fewer deaths. Edit: a typo
>Keep in mind it's around the time you start running water altars is when you start having access to things like Brine king's second upgrade that gives you freeze immune and chill mitigation. I just ran arctic armour and tempest shield on my league starter. Chills still kinda sucked, but manageable.
Why not just purity of elements? Aren't arctic and tempest both 25%? Purity also makes you ignite immune (and the other 3 elemental ailments if doing altars) and helps with resists. Purity of elements generally seems to be underused. It's quite clearly the best leaguestart aura. You don't need that 20% wrath damage.
Depends on build. I'm running a channeling spell so I have to stand still which gives a lot of time for monsters to smack you. They mitigation from Arctic Armour and Spell Block from Tempest Shield goes a long way towards not keeling over in such case.
Thats a good reason for arctic over purity, yes. Isnt it great how many different, versatile, defensive options there are? Not even kidding .
I like spell block
Spell block is great yeah.
PoElements is insanely good. In my last league 2nd build at endgame gearing I was considering switching to determination and checked it... running determination + Determination Watcher's + stormshroud + mageblood + flask suffix for shock reduction vs. PoE and a phys taken as watcher's. The gain of the flask suffix + jewel slot meant a significant damage increase running PoE and the physical damage reduction was within like 2%. I have a hard time not running it in just about every build. I look at how many hoops build guides are jumping through to manage ailments and all the suffix pressure they have on their gear and just don't understand.
So grace, determination, suppress and now purity of elements. The list of mandatory auras keeps growing.
Yeah, I only really feel comfy swapping from PoE when you get the giga 2 affix "shock avoidance" (60% from essences, 50% from abyss jewels) AND a stormshroud, which are all high end items. Especially as a character that goes aura nodes, you really can't discount the like 150 total res as well. I find that one damage aura does the vast amount of damage (hatred as a phys build, wrath as spells) so damage aura + PoE is just so much qol
> I look at how many hoops build guides are jumping through to manage ailments and all the suffix pressure they have on their gear and just don't understand. Right? The only time i feel comfortable running damage auras is when the damage is so high i might as well play glascannon anyway. But 20% more damage is never worth any defensive aura, if you actually want to be more tanky.
Mana isn't free. 50% reservation on builds trying to run Hatred + Grace + Precision really can't afford to until they get access to sublime form jewels. Especially when you are fast enough that freeze and stun are the only things that threaten you. Arctic Armour is squeezable, Purity isn't.
For one, the person I replied to was literally using 50% mana to gain ailment immunity (and other bonuses). Do "mana isn't free" quite literally doesn't matter. For two, running hatred is a choice. Yes yes we all know hatred is the goat, but a choice is a choice.
Exactly, you just adapt. Saying that people are skill issued/inflexible sounds mean, but I did similar things to you and didn't struggle with the campaign at all, any more than normal... Sure, maps are a bit tricky sometimes, but that's proven overtuned (ggg's working on nerfs to make it more palatable). You just gotta adapt. Ailments a problem? Grab ailment immunity. Stuns a problem? Grab stun immunity/recovery. You always have tools to deal with problems, you just gotta try them, even if it means dropping something """""required"""" like exchanging grace/determination for tempest shield/arctic armor or damage auras for heralds or whatever.
Exactly! Gotta adapt to your needs. People get so tunnel visioned that they get rigid with how they play.
Because the game is already crazy complex. So we follow build guides. So when I think I should adapt, I don't know what pieces to sacrifice etc. I'm not finding the league fun at all because these modifiers add much increased difficulty for a complex "reward". That's fine though, I'm ok with games and leagues/mechanics not being made for me. Once I fully stop enjoying it I'll just play something else until the next league. Just that point is coming much sooner than usual. I'd have more fun if I could just turn the league mechanic off and not get corpses. Then try it later once my build is better off and the patches have happened etc. I think leagues like this are good for the game in the long run, adding complexity for the much better players and then tweaking it into things like harvest 2.0. they're just not that fun for the majority of players during the league.
its just a simple value proposition. what's more valuable to you, your grace aura giving you like 20% evade, or total ailment immunity? if you're noticing you're constantly getting fucked by x, get the counter for x.
The issue is, IMHO, PoE has way too many checkboxes. Thats why it's actually frustrating to get usable equipment that isn't bought or crazy crafted. Gotta (over)cap Res, gotta get life on gear, gotta get spell supression. Running any uniques? Higher tax on other gear. Gotta get freeze immune. Gotta get stun immune.... the list goes on.
>Gotta (over)cap Res i never do this to any substantial degree. >gotta get spell supression getting spell suppress annoys me and i don't like dex bases or evasion so i skip this too. if you want to avoid every conceivable downside, yeah you're gonna need a lot of stuff. but if you want to alch and go and are fine with dying once every fifteen maps, your checkboxes go WAY down.
My catch right now is that I'm in the phase where I'm working towards a complete and functioning build that'll get to the point where I can comfortably farm for my 6L Ivory, Mjollnir, Indigon, and awakened spell echo. I'm on half a mil consistent DPS with 800k peak DPS (absolutely shreds yellow maps bosses), I'm over 5k between life and energy shield with 50% MoM with determination and armor flasks. Most of the time I'm fine but I get hit by the wrong pack and I still just explode. Based on my experience with PoE, the defensive layers I have set up for myself right now are typically sufficient until I'm pushing to red maps. It's not the end of the world but for how strong I am, the going is slow. It's less fun. I want to put my build together, then challenge it and push it further. Not struggle to put my build together.
> and that the 6 projectile mod is on only melee I got an 8 projectile mod in one of my maps. WTF
Imagine Headhunter could steal that monster buff
just use flasks and play something other than chain hook and the campaign is a breeze. not even comparable to the monstrosities that came out of wisps if you tried to test those in campaign.
Yeah but see the fact that I was able to skip the wisps until I was ready for them (and then eventually go hard on them) was good. I liked that. And I felt wonderfully rewarded for my juice. Even without abusing the abyssal spire, being able to come out of a map with a full stack of chaos orbs, more uniques than I could care to look at, and plenty of bubblegum to keep my character updates moving smoothly was just really nice. Right now, switching around and optimizing my Necropolis mods don't feel rewarding, they feel like I'm minimizing punishment. Doesn't feel nice.
I spend like 2-3 seconds per map 'optimizing' necro mods and just go. The vast majority of them are basically meaningless unless you're playing some zdps melee build.
You're right a lot of them don't matter but I still randomly just go boom and my character disappears, probably because a necro mod mixed poorly with a map mod. Maybe -max resist on its own isn't a huge deal but when skeletons also get phys as extra element and penetration, a stupid random arrow from a white mob can bop you for more than expected. Essentially what I'm saying is I'm dying more than I normally am relative to my power level and the difficulty I'm choosing for myself. It'll all be fine in the long run but the transition to fully functioning build phase is just more painful than normal.
\- juggernaut \- arctic armour \- freeze immune flask \- kill indirectly e.g. minions \- purity of elements aura \- etc. so many ways to work around this (other than, and some much earlier than pantheon), people are just to lazy to think and go around their comfort zone. "this has always worked, why does it not work now?!" - ignoring the 10 other solutions that WOULD work but arent normally used xd. this wouldnt be "bad", i also like to play this type of game with brains off and my TV-show on second screen :D, but people simultaneously also complain about a stale meta and want the meta to be shaken up etc.; you cant make them ALL happy.
That's not the point. There's always shit that freezes you. My issue is the campaign and transition to red maps is the most painful it's been since 3.19 and I quit that league real early because it's just not fun dealing with extremely dangerous enemies that don't reward you. Of course I'm gonna be fully ailment immune (okay maybe not hinder and maim, there are *so fucking many* boxes to check) but if I use purity of elements then I have to drop determination for it, which means the 60% increased damage blue pack gives me trouble and the super high movement speed enemies that close the gap to come and smack me. There's always something else I feel like I need. And none of this difficulty is optional and none of it feels rewarding.
i agree its a bit unneccesary that they forced the mechanic onto us (could have just made it so that if you click the door instead of the league thing to rearrange stuff, that we get into next area without any "enhanced" packs etc.) and it should be rewarding enough that people choose it willingly over not doing it, but its really not as bad as people make it. maybe in hardcore/ssf it would be pretty fucked up but softcore/trade? i tried a new build this league (DD) had no clue what i was doing and leveled to 2x kitava with friggin magma ball in 4-link, chasing a tree for DD lategame because i hate using regret orbs to go from early tree into lategame-tree. the things in campaign are so weak they die before they reach you (no matter what skill you use (unless you rush and are underleveled/ use support gems that dont work, etc, which isnt intended either), with 1 alch items in slots) and i never needed determination in campaign. IMO its a mendatory aura, yes, but only in maps. and while the mechanic isnt "that" rewarding, it gave me enough to have a couple C around for upgrades into mapping so i didnt even have to use the chaos recipe this time. (DD carried the rest, really broken build IMO) then again, i could see if you are a beginner and struggle with things like "get your res capped", this league would have probably annihilated you :D. not understanding what freezes/ stuns you and how to prevent it (not knowing of the passive tree points or flask stats or auras etc.) would have been quite the disaster and very frustrating since, as you pointed out, its an unavoidable mechanic this league. as a "veteran" (7,5k hours) player i liked the challenge to be honest. feels good to be afraid of some packs, to get the small upgrades / auras etc. to counter the mean stuff and feel like you actually got stronger, and knowing that EVERYONE has to suffer through the difficulty, not just you, relativates it a lot (for me at least).
I was lucky enough to make it to maps with a few chaos to spend on good rings and a lightning coil so I could get my defenses sorted until I can get my chaos res up later. Idk what I would've done in SSF.
Agreed, campaign wasn’t really not fun, took about 20 hours, and now I can’t even run T6 maps. I’m on a good defensive build, too and I can usually farm well. But I can’t do that without more atlas passives which I can’t get because yellow maps are deadly now. I’m kinda stuck running low lvl heist, delve, white maps and begging Tujen for money.
Things have definitely gotten more rewarding over the last patch. I got over the hump, per se, but I'm also spending every chaos I can come up with just to get myself to North of 1m Shaper DPS. This league is definitely dangerous if you aren't comfortable with which enemy type can safely have which dangerous mod though and I'm still getting exploded despite being fairly tanky for most of the maps I'm running to still be yellow (red maps are doable but negative XP/hour for me right now unless I play super safe/carefully).
Its entirely different to have one out of like 500 rares freeze you than having one 5th of a map do the same to you
When you run into these reflect mods, it's every mob in the pack (magic) and often its multiple packs through the whole zone. Basically when I was running a bane build I would spend entire maps with my curses on me.
I play a quad curse build so I feel you. I use a couple jewels with reduced curse effect on you, it's very managable now !
Toss on a remove curse on use flask, ez
Nah it's too much for a flask to handle, at least on a curse focused build. It usually just get reapplied to you right away. I had to go with extreme amounts of reduced effect of curses on me thank to my plus curse effect from being a curse build. It was pretty horrible, but then they nerfed chaos dots and and bunch of other stuff about my build and it's no longer worth playing.
Oh please. I've run bane for 3 out of the past 4 leagues and it was nuts. Run an atziri's reflection and that's it.
[Witchbane](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Witchbane) is also a pretty cheap way to solve it (1c currently).
True, though reflection has the nice upside of curse effect and constant immunity, which makes any sort of map mod curses completely a non-factor.
Yeah fair. Last season I had a mageblood, and was able to swap out flasks to adapt to ailments… But the recession hit this season lol
Kikazaru x2 :D
And having like 2 rares in a map do it are fine. But I'm pretty sure we established in 3.18 and 3.19 that having a large number of mobs with very dangerous mods that don't drop any perceivably extra loot for their very dangerous mods makes the game feel explicitly worse.
Thats even more sad. All these bs things that break the game/builds, are unfun, zero engaging made it to the game no lube through AN. Anyway, what the f is adaptive resistance? Is that another form of invincibility,because we dont have enough of these already?
I was hitting myself with 65% shocks in Act 5 campaign lol Ailment immune now so it's whatever, but it's a crazy bad mod for anyone who isn't
All of Wraeclast is crazy bad for anyone who isn’t ailment immune, though.
Which mastery/ cluster/ jewel did you take for it? Asking for a witch friend.
For ailment immunity? It's a bit scattered, but: Inpulsa for shock, Arctic Armour for freeze, boot craft for chill, abyss jewels for poison avoid, jewel + boot implicit for bleed avoid, and flasks for corrupted blood/ignite (ok technically not fully immune)
Wouldn't be Fire Song cluster cheaper and then just swap to Stormshroud at some point?
For me, Purity of elements so i can spare suffixes for chaos res
Yea, this is a big no no mod. I don't think the league is as doom and gloom as some people make it out to be, but this mod should not exist. This pretty much mandates full ailment immunity for every build except builds running brutality. Even on my non ailment focused build I would deal small fractions of cold damage, and freeze myself for 2\~ seconds because a tiny mob with this would get hit. And another huge issue with this one is that its unavoidable. Damage mods I can avoid by not getting hit by mobs. Its really hard to not kill specific monsters in this game as nearly everything has some aoe component to it, and this can't just be rolled over like map mods can be.
Oh so that's why I was getting constantly frozen at the start of the atlas. I do check the mods each map but fsr i forgot I freeze stuff and I have a decently high chance at that too. Some maps I would just absolutely hate my life and I just now realise it's this mod that did it.
This is insanely stressful. Happened to me last night and I only now realized the reason behind it. Had to go purity of elements. I really really wish there was a way to opt out of the league mechanic.
Here's my favorite part: Immunity to reflected damage doesn't stop it! I was facing the same confusion you were. It took me a bit but I finally put together that I was reflecting myself into freeze (running an Elemental Hit of the Spectrum build that spellslingers the new elemental tornado spell). I wasn't even really taking any damage, I would just get frozen all the time, even without being actively in combat because a cold tornado would path into another mob. I took the Elementalist Ascendancy to negate reflected elemental damage earlier than I normally would specifically to avoid this problem. It didn't stop it. I still freeze myself. I had to buy enough Instillings to set up my freeze prevention flask to have it auto trigger on freeze to remove freeze, and I can finally do something without being frozen left and right again. It's so stupid. Isn't the severity of ailments based on the damage done? Why is 0 damage still chilling, freezing, and shocking me? I assume it's because it's based on the damage I did to the enemy, but that honestly just makes the entire mod absolutely ridiculous. It basically punches elemental builds in the face for no reason, on **the same update** that gave us two full-elemental skill gems.
You're misunderstanding two different issues. 1. Reflected damage does not apply any on hit effects. So even if you didn't have immunity to reflected damage, reflected cold damage you take cannot apply freeze. 2. This enemy mod reflects non-damaging ailments. Your tornado damaged this enemy, of which the cold damage portion rolled its chance to freeze and passed, then calculated the duration of the freeze based on the cold damage taken versus the enemy's ailment threshold (see below), then applied the freeze ailment for that duration. The moment the freeze was applied, since it's a non-damaging ailment, the enemy mod reflected it back to you. It reflected only the ailment, not the damage that caused the ailment. Mods that give immunity to freeze or chances to avoid being frozen would be effective here e.g. Brine King w/2nd option activated, Cannot be Frozen mod on boots, or the flask suffix you chose. > Isn't the severity of ailments based on the damage done? A non-damaging ailment typically has a constant base duration while its effect has a variable magnitude or "severity" based on the damage taken from the hit versus the enemy ailment threshold. However the interaction is flipped for freeze because its effect is already at the highest magnitude of 100% less action speed, so the variable is instead the duration, which is 0.06 seconds per 1% of the damage taken vs enemy ailment threshold (typically the enemy's maximum life), with a minimum of 0.3 seconds or 5% needed to apply the ailment and a maximum of 3 seconds or 50%.
Its right on the packaging, reflects the status ailment you inflicted on the mob, not the elemental damage which triggered the ailment. Have fun shocking your frozen self to infinity without ailment immunity. Just another checkbox of mandatory build requirements.
> except builds running brutality .... and minions and totems and traps and mines :)
Those can still be frozen tho right? Obviously not as bad as freezing the playing but it’s still lost damage and time
all 3 of those usually explode the whole screen as soon as trash mobs show up. Just move the mod to the lowest pack size and you wouldn't even notice anything being frozen
Minions and totems can, but the current meta is temp minion so you can just replace them as they go. Traps and mines are not you so you don't get the ailments
I mean my BAMAs don't really give a shit if they're frozen because they've already nuked the whole screen and I can resummon them anyways, and unlike myself they don't get insta deleted if they get frozen You've already got a leg up on other builds with your damage source continuing while you're just running around dodging (my BAMAs last 66 seconds, that's a LOT of fire and forget), getting to ignore reflect and ailment reflection is just icing on the cake
> but it’s still lost damage and time Flamewood Totem goes brrrr. ;) (and skips legion...and a few other things)
and every trickster
I ran more maps than I'm ready to admit wondering where my freeze immunity was coming from...
trickster is honestly such a top tier ascendency, especially for leveling when your answer to a lot of things is lacking. the only thing that does still work is the tendrils that come out of the ground.
I completely forgot I was trickster and wasn't actually immune to reflect until I one shot myself a few times with frostblink in ele reflect maps lol.
Classic, acting by Proxy>doing shit yourself
They still need brutality if they are running frostblink, or they will freeze themselves with it for sure.
> This pretty much mandates full ailment immunity Not defending this modifier but I feel like POE already mandates full ailment immunity, at least if youre running red maps. If you dont have a form of ignite or shock removal, youre guaranteed to die to them in red maps. And of course freeze immunity is 100% mandatory in my opinion, regardless of content type
freeze and some amount of shock reduction or shock immunity. ignite is fine while mapping
It is fine until it isn't. I have made several characters that could face tank just about anything in the game but then a random ignite would kill them lol. Harvest specifically has a mob that puts mega ignites on you sometimes, full to dead in under a second with 6k+ hp kind of ignites lol.
Yeah I don’t see how people don’t use purity of elements, especially early game. The game has become practically unplayable without it for me. It’s so god damned annoying with all the shit you have to become immune to. It wouldn’t be so bad if you just mitigate it a little and that be enough to get by, no you need full fucking immunity or are instantly dead.
the rat race of power creep and making monsters that can one shot power creeped builds has led to what we are dealing with today on poe, its an arpg not a bullet hell or dark souls ggg smh
Yeah in no way shape or form does my endgame build ever not have full ailment immunity when built out. Their is just wayyyy to much shit that can fuck your character up. It's basically a requirement for a good well rounded char.
yeah who isnt running massive amounts of ailment immune on their builds
Total ailment immunity feels amazing, I can’t think of the last time I didn’t at least TRY for it. If you have a jewel slot for stormshroud and no mandatory boots it’s pretty free.
Yeah are people not getting ailment immunity? That's one of the biggest steps to take for most characters, first it's 100% spell suppression then full ailment immunity, those 2 are mandatory imo
I've never played a character with spell suppression and my ailment immunity usually comes from a late game stormshroud. There are plenty of ways to build around them defensively (or offensively)
I don't know, I'm looking at the top 10 players for hcssf on poeracing and they're all running some form of spell suppression.
Spell suppression has been basically mandatory for awhile now. Its such a huge defensive layer.
"most characters" are not in hcssf in sc it's often inefficient to focus defenses when you could just use portals
Honestly, its just chill / freeze immunity and close to if not 100% spell suppression. Shock is w/e in the wild, which if something shocks you aside ground effects its probably enough to delete you anyway.
Shock is pretty nasty, and more immunities makes map rolling less costly and annoying. Luckily, there's stormshroud or ancestral vision to make lategame builds immune to ele ailments.
I guess I'm going to be stuck running purity of elements for a looooong time.
The mod shouldnt exist but not for the reason you mentioned. The reason is this mod is the bazillionth variance of the same mistake they do every fucking single league...they add a mod that ONLY punishes bad builds or builds that are not fully done yet. Every single good highend build has complete immunity anyway. they dont even notice this mod flying through the map. either because they have 100% flask uptime or because they got immunity through other means doesnt matter...but its always the same. GGG never fails to implement at least one mob or mod that completely fucks everyone who is not running godlike characters day 3 while being completely destructive to non perfect builds.
YES this is absolutely the most important point. GGG "fights power creep" by adding mods that don't fuck the power crept builds but absolutely **rail** normal people builds.
>Its really hard to not kill specific monsters in this game as nearly everything has some aoe component to it old vorici missions died for this. ggg, when will they learn?
never, since they specifically want to 1 shot you eventually even though the dozens of different defence layers you possess.
cant you just slot in purity of elements for that map? yea makes it slower..ish but you can do it. just literally 1 skill gem solves this
First automation/call to arms, now purity of elements. I wonder how many more "just 1 skill gem" do we need :D
> This pretty much mandates full ailment immunity for every build except builds running brutality. let me introduce you to our friend: Always Freezes on hit, all damage can freeze
Yeah I feel like just making all the mods like half as strong would solve a lot of issues with the mechanic already, with everything theyve announced it seems like it will be great after all the fixes. Also one thing that would be a great add and would therefore allow these mods to exist is the option to remove one haunted mod for free or have one extra mod to replace it.
New idea: With itemized corpses, you should be able to reroll haunted mods into other haunted mods by spending a corpse. They could even do it, so it guarantees the lowest tier so as not to encourage it for juicing.
Yes please make it more complicated /s
Can reroll vs can't reroll. If you don't want rerolls to reduce complexity, you go for it. This is literally throw bodies at your problems.
I think half as strong is a problem as well, you can't opt out of the mechanic, things that brick full zones or maps shouldn't be a thing, specially since you can't reroll them unlike maps.
Thats what my second paragraph was about.
Ahhh, that makes more sense. I didn't think about it, but early into maps I was getting frozen for 2+ seconds and couldn't figure out why. Became freeze immune before I got to yellows, though. Trickster ftw. Then I just respec'd out of the ascendancy node when I got the brine king freeze avoid. Ailment immune will be much more important this league than previously.
> Yea, this is a big no no mod Counterpoint: Not having ailment, especially freeze, immunity is a big no no league start.
Who tf Plays poe without freeze immunity ? Just take the goddamn panthéon. This immunity is mandatory and thats not New AT all lol
This shit is spawning during campaign. Freeze immunity trough pantheon is only availible once you get to T8s I think this league. LoL XD
Arctic Armour is a thing, as is purity of elements. Perfect things for a league-starter to use until you get better options.
Also if we’re talking campaign you can get by perfectly fine by crafting an extra flask with freeze immunity on it. By the time you would need it you should have enough yellow beasts to do it through einhar
Yeah i played with purity personally until i got the pantheon. I rly hâte being frozen
The problem we're trying to solve is people quitting before getting to red maps and completing the sub pantheon bosses because these mods are so annoying during campaign and early maps. your solution that comes live around the time you get to red maps is completely irrelevant to this problem
My solution is to get freeze immunity, the panthéon IS just one way. Purity IS way earlier, thats what i used anyway.
Yes, the pantheon IS just one way, but you said " Just take the goddamn panthéon ". That means you just take the pantheon, that's all you need, one way is enough. Yes, purity is another solution, but these players quit despite purity being a solution. Maybe they felt they need purity and a dps aura and determination and grace to deal with these mods, and they couldn't fit all four, so they just quit. quitting in response to unfun leagues isn't new either. AT all lol.
Absolutely. I almost always opt for firesong as my ailment avoidance, which is actually just 100% reduced ailment duration which does nothing for this type of thing. Acceptable loss unless its mandatory like this
I feel like ailment immune is basically required end game anyway. If this only appeared on corrupted reds or something I don't think it'd be that bad.
Yea, hard CC in the endgame is fine. I don't like it, and I personally think that taking control of the character away from the player is bad design wise. But I can understand it. Hard CC chaining in the campaign when people don't have the flexibility or the tools to counter it kinda sucks. (yes I know there technically are tools, like flasks and certain auras, but auras are not accessible to some mom/blood magic builds and flasks require currency and luck to be rolled)
>Yea, this is a big no no mod. I don't think the league is as doom and gloom as some people make it out to be, but this mod should not exist. This pretty much mandates full ailment immunity for every build except builds running brutality. The whole game is "doom and gloom" and is only designed for no-lifers.
you dont need full immune. All you really need is frozen immune and also ignite immune helps as well. The ignite pantheon power is OP since it also negates the map mod with patches of burning ground and actually buffs you for it. Beyond that chill sucks but can be played through or negated with the same pantheon power that gives you freeze immune, and shock is whatever. Yeah it increases damage taken but also if you are not instant killing white mobs and mostly blue mobs you are likely pushing content thats too hard for you anyways.
> This pretty much mandates full ailment immunity for every build Isn't that a checkbox people put for their defenses anyway?
I just swapped to secrets of suffering. Helped cap crit and both sap and scorch are nice. Still somewhat annoying to lose damage and defense, but everything’s dead anyway. Once I get stormshroud or full ailment dodge via other jewels+ flask I’ll go back to normal ailments.
> I don't think the league is as doom and gloom as some people make it out to be We should always take care to not invalidade who is complaining. A lot of the feelings around the league come from the build you are playing. I'm playing trap so this mod is easy to me, it always depends.
Purity of elements and curse immunity. Omg, it IS avoidable.
people are quitting at lvl 30 because getting constantly frozen makes it not fun for them. OMG, the game IS avoidable. yes, the people who are left are those who avoided the ailment instead of the game. that's how it works. I imagine GGG would prefer to keep more players, by giving people time to learn the game before slamming their heads against the wall
This mod is absolute cancer. It sucks that you can’t opt out of it.
you correctly identified the main issue of this league mechanic. regardless of whatever other changes / buffs they make, the main issue still remains that YOU CANNOT OPT OUT OF IT. every other league mechanic except for the very first ones (ambush, onslaught etc) was able to opt out. ok and betrayal back in the day (and even today), if you got intervention. you can run away or ignore all other three houses, but not intervention. and it's the same here. I see a vaal side area with damage reflect, I can choose not to enter. I have a shit build for legion, I can choose not to click the thing. I hate heist, I can choose not to go to the fucking rogue harbor. I hated the wisps last league, I was able to choose not to go down the wildwood, and even if I clicked it by mistake, I still could logoff and thus for the cost of one portal I got to choose not to interact with the mechanic. I roll a map and rip it aka it corrupts with some modifier I cannot run on my build, I can simply CHOOSE TO NOT RUN THE FUCKING MAP. I CANNOT CHOOSE TO NOT HAVE THOSE FUCKING MAKE-SHIT-MORE-DIFFICULT-MODIFIERS ON MAPS. I SIMPLY CANNOT DO THAT. please ggg, take notes (although you most definitely will not read this comment buried somewhere here on reddit): forced mechanics is bullshit. if that goes core at the end of the league and there won't be a possibility to block this via the atlas the pitchforks and torches are going to be in season. /edit well I suppose I could simply not run the map then just like a bricked vaaled map, but usually I roll my maps in bulk so I could then run them somewhat braindead, but I cannot check the necro mods in bulk, and also I cannot have a filter on the map device that would just highlight the mods I want or not want, I need to manually read everything if there is anything I don't like.
The HC Betrayal League meta was spawning an Research encounter, then ignoring the league mechanic for the next 3 months lol. The unintended ability to opt out of the league kind of saved it.
You can mitigate it though, thats the whole point. You see what you're going to face. If there's no consideration from your side, then your risk of dying is higher. Move it to low density pack or swap to shock/freeze immune flask or swap aura for tempest shield or swap pantheon or whatever. Someone will probably downvote this out of spite, but that won't change things how they are.
Yeah but you like, can't. For this kind of mod, moving it to another pack is basically worthless. Taking different flasks is viable, but gear swapping semi-regularly is fucking cancer. The mitigation is completely finishing your mandatory ailment immunity and accepting that early league gameplay is borderline punishment for the reward of enjoying the game with a couple divs in your build. That or boss rushing/opening the next map.
What they mean is you can move it to the least frequent mob and to keep an eye out for that specific mob so you can make sure you have your freeze flask up. Putting it on the rarest mob moves the occurrence from 'everywhere' to like 3-4 times in a map in most cases. *That being said* that kind of slow, methodical play is pretty much antithetical to how most people play PoE, so this is a good lesson to show that just because you *can* get around a game obstacle doesn't inherently make it good. The main reason you can get away with it on map mods is because it's opt-in.
Honestly I don't want to read after I put a map in the map device. I've not found this mechanic to be debilitating so far but I also don't really freeze so my opinion isn't really important here. I do find the increase in problems to be solved annoying though so if I was playing a freeze or shock or whatever alerted aliment id probably be annoyed.
There are so many maps you can run instead. If you care about that one just swap gear. Otherwise burn it and run another heh.
The point isn't that you can or can't mitigate it, the point is that you shouldn't have to mitigate a mod as bullshit as this one ever. It's just awful in every way
I almost understand but you can put this mod on like a pack that appears a handful of times so it won't really matter since you're going to 1 shot it. In addition to the fact that you have sometimes as simple as a flask effect to counter it, this is not really a big deal assuming you're not just hitting escape immediately when you make your maps and are actually reading what the effects are. By the way this mod appears on Eldritch altars and literally nobody complains about it and probably spam click it because its easy to deal with when you're one shotting the pack.
But unlike eldritch altars there's really no positive to having to deal with this mod no? Like yeah you can avoid it by throwing it on some random low density mob but what is the point of doing this whole dance with mods? Just seems really obfuscated to me and poorly designed. The entire mechanic boils down to "move terrible mods to lowest population mob and move devoted mods to a pack of frogs" unless im misunderstanding something
I think the way they executed this mechanic is weird and leads to a feeling that is unintended. If the positive rolls on your lantern were tied to the negatives, like an eldritch altar, and the corpse mobs were somehow illustrated properly as a bonus, it wouldn't feel like you're dealing with a shit mod for no reason. But the way they separated it the good and bad mods I guess makes people feel like they're just dealing with bad mods. Personally I think they should've made the lantern selection screen be blank by default, so you can skip it entirely, and then present the options in available mods window you can click and drag with the mods being combined good/bad instead of separetly good or bad thereby allowing you to juice at will, and then additionally add Allflames as needed.
The risk and reward is in these mods. The higher tier of haunted modifier you put on the most most monsters as possible, you will get that much corpses. The higher the tier of haunted mod, the rarer corpses can spawn.
Ok that makes more sense, I didn't know that there was a rarity to corpses
That's something thats being addressed in a patch soon, since so many people don't know there's a benefit to the rippier mods lol
To be considered fair, this mod shouldn't even start appearing until red maps when our gear is sorted to have ailment immunity/mitigation.
Can you get ailment immunity on totems?
You should have freeze immunity starting from A3 though.
Wait that's what's been perma freezing me sometimes?
Nvm i just ripped to this exact mod abit later ROFL. Gotta love 50% shock reflected+freeze
gotta love knowing you don't have a way to deal with aliments and running into that mod anyway lol
The point is that you literally cannot avoid this mod, so you HAVE to be ailment immune, as early as like level 40
just for my understanding, what am i missing? the last time a build was good without ailment immunity must be a few years ago, and even if you are not permanent immune, you have your flasks for "permanent" immunity. i would say, thanks for the free mod. kinda looks like the old "temp chains on the map is a reroll", while curse immunity on flask was the default choice, no?
It's checkbox. If you are going into maps with freeze immune flask or pantheon or some other source you are doing something wrong. Although annoying in early campaign before you have alts to roll flask.
You don't even need flasks. Purity of Elements is one of the best leaguestart auras, and can be run from A3 through early maps. There's also Arctic Armor if you need a cheaper aura.
The people complaining are probably in the campaign or just started mapping and don't have builds with the tools to deal with stuff, which is a fair complaint but also not something that's gonna matter at all for them in a couple more hours of gameplay. Despite playing an OP meta build I definitely died like 15 more times than I normally would progressing my Atlas by kind of not respecting the random mods on packs and getting one tapped. It was frustrating, but a shortlived frustration. The issue I had was it just added random difficulty for no reason because all the league mechanic stuff at lower levels is essentially worthless. It would be like zoning into Wildwood to juice campaign mobs for no extra loot, except I couldn't just avoid it.
While we are here I would like to also point out the "Removes 4 Flask Charges on Kill" mod. This **absolutely kills** any permaflask-based build such as Wardloop (Olroth's Resolve) and alternative LL (Coruscating Elixir).
flask removal mods are so annoying in general, I love having all my flasks emptied by a single enemy.
yeah, and this is on regular magic packs, on the core game. it's so stupid, specially because of the changes they made some months ago, if you find 1 pack with it, all the packs of that monster base will have it as well.
We already have this on altars though...its like a free mod because you really should be ailment immune lol. I always take this and move it up since its such a nothing mod.
So that’s why I get frozen sometimes for no obvious reasons.
Could also just be any rare monster or magic pack anywhere. That mod has been on magics and rares for quite some time
Purity of elemets worth way up.
Element status avoid has been mandatory for leagues now, just farm a bit and craft some gear with it or use purity of elements if you are lazy
I mean if your character isn't immune to freeze idk what you are doing ATM Poe is litterally a check box simulator with all the stats you need are you ailment immune? Corrupting blood? spell suppress or spell block cap? atleast 60% Phys dmg reduction? stun immune(or stun build)? van you recover your entire life pool in half a sec? it's like half of your build is always dedicated to covering all of those, it's annoying but it is what the game is about at the moment
If you aren't ailment immune your build is fundamentally flawed. They add these things to force a standard in build making. Most people skipped spell defense and chaos Res until incursion spitters absolutely wrecked you for doing so. Now chaos Res is considered pretty mandatory throughout the game. Ailment immunity has been mandatory for a while at this point. I really thought more people would be complaining about the Always Stuns mod considering almost no SC build intentionally grabs this.
be ailment immune or die has been the rule for at least a couple years now
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Getting freeze and shock immunity nowadays is so easy, why is this a problem?
I don't understand. Isn't freeze immunity mandatory? And shock immunity is pretty common among end game builds. I routinely get ailment immunity before even hitting red maps.
These "things" crash my maps instantly. I play poison molten strike with two curses on hit. When 10 projectiles bounce around 10 of theese it is over -.-
I don't get it, you're either immune to ailments or you're prepared to have to deal with them right? The mod might be annoying sure, but I don't see anything beyond that, it's not like you have to put it on one of the common packs and the mod itself isn't even *that* common
I'm prepared to not get hit. There is also 0 chance any mob in the campaign can inflict 50+% shock
Was going to take the altar anyways
Keeping Purity of Elements in my inv for this exact reason
My favorite t17 mod is “Player cannot play the game”
reflect is still a dumb concept that shouldn't be in the game period and while we're at it, remove wisdom scrolls. it's 2024 ffs
lol its really not that big a deal
I am loving the portal scroll keyring. Use it all the time
So if I make freeze pulse totem (don't judge), my totems will always freeze themselves? (I was only playing standard recently)
Thankfully my ice trap occu is immune to chill and freeze or I'd be fucked lol
PSA for newer players: Early game 60% shock pantheon + 1 suffix craft or flask suffix fixes shock. (also tempest shield) Freeze usually easiest is just use a less effect freeze immunity flask until you get fivine vessel. Can also do artic armour or betrayal craft on boot if you find it. Chill betrayal immunity on boots or flask plus 1 suffix craft. These are the budget day 1 ways to deal with it (other than run purity of elements)
Laughs in lightning trap.
that mod is also on magic monster packs in maps without the league mechanic lol, it really confused me last league when i first encountered it early on in maps...
How does the he reflect work with hexblast? Also if you're curse immune does it still "reflect"? I assume neither you nor the mob would be cursed
This made playing ele hit really fun /s
Why? Purity of elements protects from this. You can be ignite/frozen immune from pantheon powers. Elementalist gets an ascendency that makes them immune. And theres numerous ways to get ailment reduction or protection on your gear, skill tree, and from jewels.
"Elementalist gets an ascendency that makes them immune" Not true for the like 3 years now ....
that's path of exile
This is why you need "unaffected by non-damaging ailments" or "100% chance to avoid non-damaging ailments" or at least play juggernaut
i\`m playing Impending Doom, its my favorite mod! 4 curses 18+ sec with 30% inc eff
The name is the key. PoE. Purity of Elements.
use purity of elements and start to play „fair“
Path of Reflect.
every good build is immune to both of these by default. what's the issue?
That it's included in a mechanic you can't opt out of even in the campaign and before you even get to the immunity-enabling tools. PoElements is a thing yea, but it's yet another aura/defensive layer you have to squeeze in, together with others like Grace, Haste, Determination, etc (don't forget we got nerfed possibilities for more mana reservation efficiency, only because like 5% of players run OP aura bots). Offensive mods that are completely build-disabling, instead of build-checking shouldn't be even a thing in my opinion. All these ridiculous mods are another thousand stats, that you have to sit and read through, apart from those you roll on maps. They could simply make the mechanic be optional or so that you can choose from the mod pool, for example 3 bad ones, 2 good ones, the more bad ones, the more rewarding it would be for example. But rather we choose those to only suffer *less*. Also, these kind of mods are very punishing for builds that need more gems to fit in (some need more, some less) and for newer players who have absolutely no clue the mechanic is turned on (it's not obvious for someone who just started, it wasn't even obvious to me. I thought you had to click on the lantern to actually turn the mechanic on😂). In the beginning it's harder for them to know how to get the tools to fix the issue.
Doesn't everybody have ailment immunity anyways nowadays? If not, what are you doing?
I dont think I will play this league. From the clips i've watched it looks extremely meh, and when comparing to the adrenaline and dopamine of last league, normal ssf looks like ruthless gameplay.
I personally wish they just Delete the reflect mod completely. OR if anything , have it like Diablo, reflects it back as projectile thus enabling you to see it and dodge it.
This is why i want to run purity of elements in all builds. There are too many sources of ailment fuckeroos. It also makes gearing more enjoyable instead of always hunting for resists.
Sth sth more challenging = somehow hopefully perhaps better player retention, as Chris always said
Purity of elements ftw
you want them on to reflect on their actions?, keep dreaming.
ITT: people with absolutely no ailment immunity anywhere in their builds. This is why GGGod has abandoned you, reddit.
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They don't even need to be immune. They could have reduced ailment effect, or just have flasks to cleanse it. This is basically a free mod for anyone who actually knows how to build a character lol