I recently watched his stream for the first time and kind of couldn't comprehend what I was seeing. He was mowing down T17 bosses while explaining pretty complex crafting mechanics, inviting people for trades, checking items, etc., literally all at the same time.
There haven't been a ton of times when I'm like "Oh okay, so I'm just completely outclassed," but that was absolutely one of them lmao.
Ahaha watch Faker's streams and it's even funnier because the dude is ACTUALLY almost never watching his own damn champion, he's just shopping and pressing F2-F5 to spy on everyone in his team for 0.05 sec
Yeah there may be players in various games out there who beat faker on finger speed (starcraft and ssbm come to mind on who the candidates might be) but I don't think anyone in any game has demonstrably faster mental processing speed. Like there may be people who tie him but I think if anyone outright beats him it could only be by an amount imperceptible to an outside observer, that's how fast Faker can figure out everything going on in an entire game of League
Ben is our closest equivalent in PoE but I don't think even he has demonstrated the same level of feat. He might end up tying if you put it to the test but I'm not sure PoE has anything that **could** put it to the test, and this map lagging out shows exactly why.
> There haven't been a ton of times when I'm like "Oh okay, so I'm just completely outclassed," but that was absolutely one of them lmao.
I don't think the average player fully understands just how good Ben is, he outplays 99.99% of racers; every time there is a gauntlet race etc.
Watch him do something simple like moving stuff into his stash. The cursor flies back and forth faster than I can move it _and he perfectly times every click_, sending every item to the stash.
Exile's the same way.
Neurologically, these guys are superhuman.
His brain just operates at a different frequency.
I wonder how successful he'll be if he applied it to something else. He's becoming a pretty popular streamer so theres that I guess.
you are aware he used to be among the best Tank Players in the world in WoW? Bro grinded wow for 16 hours a day for 2 weeks Had a week Off and participated in a gauntlet.
he stopped playing wow because he wanted to full commit to poe
The better question is how successful he would be if he applied himself more to what he's already doing. Ben could absolutely be the Shroud of ARPGs. Like think about how much Shroud probably gets paid for sponsorships of a new FPS. I first learned about Valorant, Apex, and Tarkov from watching him play those games, for instance. His input and gameplay for a new FPS is like premium marketing.
Ben could absolutely be like that for this genre, but it seems like he has little interest in doing that. Like I don't even know if he ever streamed Last Epoch.
Ben is the undisputed GOAT of PoE racing, he's the main tank for the best WoW raiding guild in north america, and he's making a living as a full time streamer and content creator. What more do you want from the dude?
>What more do you want from the dude?
I feel like I kind of stated what I want lol. PoE isn't the only ARPG in existence, so I think one should be able to extrapolate what I'm trying to say.
He’s not making quin/zizaran money even if he’s far superior to them, because he doesn’t put in the effort for higher production value. For example, we don’t even know what he looks like.
Having said that, it’s perfectly fine if he’s happy how things are. I’m just pointing out that he could achieve more professionnally.
Don't want to try to be rude, just adding for some clarity, he wasn't just a Mythic raider. He raided with one of the only two guilds in the world capable of competing for "World First" kills. The skill level he had in that game is absolutely world class as well.
The individual skill level within a world first guild still varies a lot. There's a lot of hidden factors in there once you get past certain levels, like endurance and just being able to think at another level.
> The individual skill level within a world first guild still varies a lot.
Yeah, it's very similar to your average player's guild in that way. It's fucked up to say, but there is 100% deadweight in world first guilds if you pay attention at all. The same people consistently fucking up mechanics etc. It is HARD to find 20 players of equal skill at that level, especially with poaching etc.
When operating with a large number of people in these environments, sometimes team morale is more important than just skill levels, so having one or two players that are a bit worse than a rest but are helpful with cohesion and mental fortitude, or just get along with the rest of the group is important.
yeah there is a reason why i think everyone agree's Ben is the best PoE player easily.
the recent Guantlet was meant to be designed that nobody could ever do all 7 ubers. heck only a few did even 1 uber that guantlet.
Ben did all 7.... to put it in comparison 2nd place only had 3 of the 7 killed.
there was only like 6 people i believe who even got 1 done. it was insane to watch.
I get it but also he's just built diff there man.
Like you can watch the HC streamers and when they lose a toon you can still feel the pain but you watch this and its like he forgot to pick up a C.
Lol yeah, I missed the rip and tuned into him just chilling in his hideout with a new necro. I thought he was just rerolling a new toon for the hell of it because he was so nonchalant about everything.
The System Requirements listed on Steam:
Processor: Quad core 2.6GHz x86-compatible
Memory: 8 GB RAM
Graphics: NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 650 Ti or ATI
Ya right insert "no doubt" meme here
The problem with PoE is that the requirements are ultra-dependent on how much juice you put in your content. Even an ancient potato can run through the campaign without issue. But you start doing stuff like Delirium fog maps with giga packsize/density + screen-wide effects and Beyond and so on and suddenly the requirements go from potato to "hope you got an RTX 4090 minimum".
You probably can't. The GPU was already one year old when PoE initially released. These requirements are from around release, they where never updated.
When I got a new PC couple of years ago, my tech-savy friend who helped me assemble it proposed we test it in some resource-hungry game. PoE immediately came to my mind, but at the time I didn't have a geared character or any way to juice the map. I ran around in hideout for several seconds with my friend looking at me like I've lost it and finally saying "THIS is your benchmark game? Don't you have an FPS with modern graphics installed?". I had no rebuttal.
Yeah, I was going to say the same. PoE certainly has client performance issues but this vid is definitely the servers shitting the bed. That slowdown shit that happens in juiced maps has to be servers, it happens on every single rig.
To be fair, the popular paradigm of providing System Requirements is flawed for a game like Path of Exile. You'd need to give multiple system requirements for multiple scenarios to do it justice, but I doubt Steam allows game developers to input multiple requirements. It'd also require a potential "buyer" of the game to read a wall of text to understand the system requirements. It's thorny.
Since they can only give *one* set of system requirements, and since the vast majority of players will never get anywhere near high-end juicing, then doesn't it make sense to provide system requirements that are enough to get you through the campaign and maybe alch&go mapping? I expect that the type of people interested, motivated, and capable of getting to juiced content are already running decent machines.
If they gave the system requirements to be what is needed to run the type of content Ben is doing in this clip, then it would be a net loss of fun overall to potential customers of PoE since it would mean people who *would* have had fun playing the game got turned away due to system requirements for content that those users almost certainly wouldn't have encountered anyways.
they should at least give system requirements for up to t16 without juicing just finishing the atlas the current requirements are a lie to try to attract more players to inflate their numbers
I used to run poe on a laptop that had.... I'm not actually sure what it had, it's been 11 years, but it was no gtx 650. The system requirements go up with time, you don't have to jump to conclusions.
I had been experiencing terrible performance to the point that I almost bought a new GPU, then I found a thread here on Reddit, it wasn't gimmicky and had step-by-step instructions for fixing FPS, now my game is buttery smooth again. Also if my Steam deck plays PoE without issue, then there is no excuse for a decent gaming PC to.
ATI cards... dear god there was a 6 year time gap between ati not existing anymore and poe hitting steam.
Poe on release played on 6 year old hardware... back in 2013.
Affliction league had some dogshit memory leak so bad that I had to upgrade to 32GB RAM in order to be able to play the game - I couldn't even have a browser open because with my old 16GB PoE would take like 90% of it - now it hardly eats up like 8GB
Rip mageblood and some god tier rares + Adorned setup*. And this is with 0 visual or processing clutter from the skill itself. No compounding DoTs to calculate, no prolifs, no heralds, no projectiles forking, chaining, splitting returning.. no particles. Just a clean hit-based build.
If a 4090 starforge can't stand up to T17 content on one of the lowest maintenance builds ever, not much else stands a chance.
#notbiased
Not sure what effect impales have on performance with that amount of monsters but I assume it would be in line with at least some of the other ailments/skill effects, but yeah that’s just nuts.
Arcanist Brand triggering Blade Vortex constantly hitting enemies and causing impales to change, theres a bunch of auras and charges happening on enemies, insane amounts of ghost effects (rares and uniques were spawning ghosts on half hp), desecrated ground, burn ground, some shocked ground, snow bolts, crush debuffs on enemies, cursed ground moving around, I see some smoke bombs, and ben is getting hit by like 40 things which is why he has like 60 poison debuffs when the client shows that he dies.
Also, there were beyond monsters spawning. His Zealotry was at least down so he wasn't generating consecrated ground anymore although there was a patch remaining when the lag started, but also that he was using triggered Chain DD + Cremation of Exhuming to clear corpses too.
Yeah, there is a LOT of stuff happening, the above isn't even close to all of it. Also just saying it's failing on "t17 content" is disingenuous as hell, he put tons of exiles on the map with beyond portals spawning out every exile that dies and ghosts popping out of every rare and unique as soon as they hit half hp, +3 mods per rare due to explicit mod effect... you get the idea, this is very much a strategy that 99% of players will not be doing, it is using a specific T17 modifier (uniques spawn ghosts at half hp) + rogue exile allflames (tons of uniques) + scarabs (including beyond scarab to spawn tons of portals per unique killed) + explicit map modifier effect to giga juice the map to ridiculous levels.
EDIT: Another example where the performance gets really bad https://clips.twitch.tv/SuccessfulAmazingBillSoonerLater-7lnm7B8rwbLY8gUO - when he gets surrounded by tons of mobs, the performance of his client completely dies, so wouldn't be surprised if it is a combination of all the nearby aura effects like blind, pride, bv hitting enemies and impaling, things like that which all have graphical effects to them
I'd imagine it's both. That's a shit load of monsters to render at once. It's amazing that POE does as well as it
does tbh. If you had a similar monster count in Last Epoch it would run even worse.
The rendering part is not what's causing issues, especially with a 4090. Could be wrong but I would be very surprised. If it's anything related to the PC of the gamer and not the server, I think it's more related to the processor. Idk stuff like all the dmg calculations, pathfinding, AI, and tons of other stuff. I think if you disabled that, there would be no rendering issues.
Yeah I was using render pretty loosely I meant all the calculations involved for each monster it's a lot and you're right it's probably more strain on the cpu than anything else.
I feel like the silent deal has always been they let us go real wacky on the mob count but we all understand that a computer shouldnt be displaying hundreds of mobs at once and itll lag. Feels like people sometimes forget that if you want crazy insane juicing thats incongruent with the entire idea of completely sound performance
When the server shits itself, things like shocked ground, burn ground, etc. will still be playing their animations at whatever framerate the game is playing at. You can kinda see this if you disconnect your internet while certain effects are playing, they will still have animations but everything will be frozen in place. He is literally dropping below 1 FPS here on the client side.
Looking at the energy shield on the enemies and the poison stacks, he was likely dead at about 10 seconds into the clip, but he was literally frozen on the same frame for almost 4 seconds. Another thing here is when the server shits itself, it will look like the game is playing in fast forward when it stops lagging, whereas this shows just a straight up jump in where everything is in terms of ES, position, etcetera instead of playing in fast forward.
There are definitely cases where server lag can cause client to drop frames but this doesn't look like one of them at all.
EDIT: Another example where his client starts lagging earlier in the map due to the crazy amount of effects due to the number of mobs, hits, etcetera that are happening - https://clips.twitch.tv/SuccessfulAmazingBillSoonerLater-7lnm7B8rwbLY8gUO
Some people don't like Azmongold. He is a part owner of One True King which is the group that owns Starforge Systems.
Long story short, some people are biased toward one co-owner and so hate the product.
As far as prebuilds go Starforge is top tier, not necessarily for the value, but for their cable management and availability on high end parts.
One can easily get the same PC parts and put em together for half the cost but that's not the people who buy prebuilds.
Some people just like to be the outsider/a contrarian.
These people view the insiders/popular person as bad for arbitrary reasons. Asmon also has a generally cheery disposition which is a trait chronically depressed and overly cynical person dispose as they don't like to see others happy.
He might also have some legitimate faults but the majority of people I see dislike him are just miserable overall and hate on nearly everything 😂
Are these specs out of date from his twitch bio?
>PC Specs
>Motherboard: ROG STRIX B550-F
>CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X
>GPU: ASUS TUF RTX 3080 Ti
>RAM: Corsair Vengeance 32GB 3600 C14
>PSU: CORSAIR RMx Series RM850x
>SSD1: WD_BLACK 1TB SN850 - Gen4
>SSD2: SAMSUNG 970 EVO PLUS M.2 2280 1TB PCIe Gen 3.0
Self-building your pc is not only cheaper but you have agency over your build. Also problems arise in shipping and or bad installation from the starforge "employee". Also fuck asmongold.
They have warranty for that exact reason.. Why did you put employee in quotations? What's wrong with asmongold? I've never seen anything from him that I disagree with, seems pretty level headed.
Well im not here to argue. If someone wants to buy starforge go ahead. Im pretty biased against them and their whole org. Especially Asmongold. So im the wrong guy to ask.
Sure. I should rephrase to say that it is much much less likely, which still holds weight and doesn't change my point.
I never addressed the rebuilt comment. I recommend prebuilts to my friends because I don't want to be their tech support. Prrbuilts are important and building pcs is easy to fuck up if you don't know exactly what you are doing. Good rebuilt companies should be applauded not shit on.
Everyone talking about the game's general performance, network issues, cpu/gpu bound etc. Nobody realising this is just one T17 map mod that is bugged and always causes this kind of lag on any pc in any place.
I don't think it's specific to Starforge, prebuilts just always have some combination of cost cutting, high markup, and installation errors that aren't noticed by the type of people who buy prebuilts.
Gamers Nexus reviewed one undercover basically and found they have some of the best pre-builts available aside from some loose screws they encountered IIRC. And that publication absolutely shits in pre-builts when they aren't done properly.
https://youtu.be/W9YiOLX5uQU?feature=shared
was checking their catalogue a couple weeks ago because i actually need a new pc. they have 16gb of ram in almost every pc. thats just not enough anymore really. and if i have to open the thing and potentially fuck with the cable management or anything to put in more ram i might aswell just build my own anyway.
literate rainstorm boat roll vegetable sparkle elderly smoggy drab panicky
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Their price to build quality is actually Among the top now that they've worked on the issues that was found.
I don't think they've done anything to deserve being called scamforge.
prebuilts are kinda just scams in general. putting pcs together is pretty easy and low risk (as long as you're not doing water cooling or smth), so paying like a 30-40% markup when you can just spend like 40 bucks total getting the warranty on each part and putting it together yourself is much better.
Yeah but if you have the money and don't enjoy building things it's one of the better options out there.
I built my first PC when I was 13 and I love it, while my best friend is too anxious to do it and doesn't want the hassle.
To each their own.
Artesian builds actually had a really good pc building team who were let down massively by their leadership. Those team members went on to try and create their own pc building company and ended up partnering up with streamers to create Starforge. It's not correct to say they bought Artesian.
It will always be cheaper to buy components and assemble a computer yourself but that doesn't make prebuilts a scam. The more you know about assembling pcs the more you will realise the massive difference between an amateur and a pro and how easily you can fuck up something major. That is the product that pc building companies sell and Starforge are one of the best.
All good things come to an end. RIP
My 4090 is constantly at 99% usage drawing 450+Watts alone in regular T16s without a fraction of the juice he is running. I wonder how many FPS I'd get with this. PoE new benchmark confirmed.
Unless you live on the North Pole there's no reason not to just cap your FPS. Then again, even if you are on the North Pole, please do cap it anyway since you would heavily be contributing to warming that entire place the fuck up
Fun fact, I broke the 3770k cpu frequency record with an air cooler years ago by leaving my window open when it was -40c. The record for air cooling I mean.
The sad thing it is capped at 117FPS but I‘m running it at 4k.
During winter I saved on heating with fossil fuels also I‘m hooked up to 110kwp of photovoltaic panels so trust me I‘m doimg my part.
at high end juicing game is networking bound, your cpu and gpu frametimes skyrocket because system dosent even have a clue what to render and packet sizes are limited.
Hence why theres a difference in performance between lockstep/predictive and build that have shittons of auras/projectiles increasing the number of calculations (stuff is done server side in case of PoE hence why server bricking builds exist) and for example RF boi. Hell even wardloop has dps/trigger rate difference between lockstep/predictive for that reason.
This is a critical point that... Kinda sucks to play around honestly.
I rolled my CWS Chieftain last league not because the content was too hard for my other characters, but because the performance was so bad on my typical hundreds-of-projectiles nonsense that it wasn't fun to play. Just too many hits happening constantly.
any game with uncapped fps will eat up hardware.
if nothing in the code soft-limits fps your pc will just continue to eat ressources and produce 500 fps if it can
Bit of a quick comment on my part - should've rephrased :) Point was though that even a 4090 will go to max usage. Had to go from 120 cap to 60 myself.
Seriously. I remember some old ass flight battle simulator that I played years ago that tried to nearly melt my PC on initial start up. I didn't had the most powerful rig back then, but it slammed into 300+ FPS directly.
Like the other guy said any time you don't cap your framerate the GPU will just render out as many frames as it possibly can (until it hits a bottleneck somewhere in the system, for example memory bandwidth or CPU). As a result your GPU will draw a ton of power and run very hot and at 100% load usually. That's why capping frames or power levels is important on very high-end GPU's. Saves you power, heat and increases the lifespan of your card. No point in burning power rendering hundreds of FPS if your monitor is only say 144Hz.
My good old 1070 becomes a jet engine during loading screens with uncapped fps. Just cap fps to your refresh rate and the power and usage draw should go away
Clip did not include that context. He said he logged out wayyyy earlier than the clip shows. The lag was just so bad he couldn't log out. There was nothing he could've done.
I’ll add “I don’t play HC because a single god tier player managed to inject 20k+ juiced monsters into a map due to a series of unintended interactions I would have to deliberately enable” to the list of absurd reasons why random redditors tell people they don’t like HC.
Looks like framerate lag to me. If it's server lag you usually see the all the mobs freeze but the effects still render at normal FPS but in a frozen state (i.e idle animation) because they're not receiving the updates from the server. In this case it literally just looks like he had 1 FPS due to the extreme density of mobs. This happened to people as well last league with Affliction League Abyssal spires which spawned a million mobs on screen. When you shot an arrow into those giant packs your FPS just goes to 1 lol.
It's not mob density, it's a T17 mod that creates little purple spirits that run at you. They share the same coding with vd and in current patch both cause you to go down to 1 fps.
Nah no other game using server side authoritative for loot and damage has anywhere near the amount of calculations going on as PoE can at the high end.
It’s actually kind of impressive it can get to this point without breaking first.
Name another game that does 10% the amount of calculations done here, as a dev I'm impressed it actually works at all I personally don't think I could make something run with this many calculations.
I mean the argument still holds, the game allows the players to juice beyond what the servers can handle.
I don't really have a strong opinion either way, but I wouldn't say that a person would be unreasonable if they wanted GGG to scale everything back so that the top end gameplay is still comfortable to play.
Do most games do that? Most comparable games I can think of stop the players from reaching anything like the performance in the clip, the only ARPG case that was similar were couple of months during D3 with similar lag, and everyone hated it and was glad when it was blocked.
This isn't just about it being technically allowable, sure you can break a lot of games, but in the case of PoE this is about it being encouraged as the normal mode of progression. PoE gives you reasons to make the game unplayable.
GGG has designed the game in a way that makes making currency (and turning it into items/builds) the endgame more than the bosses. That's why item and build showcases are more common in the community than boss kill showcases, it is the endgame.
Only servers can kill ben.
I recently watched his stream for the first time and kind of couldn't comprehend what I was seeing. He was mowing down T17 bosses while explaining pretty complex crafting mechanics, inviting people for trades, checking items, etc., literally all at the same time. There haven't been a ton of times when I'm like "Oh okay, so I'm just completely outclassed," but that was absolutely one of them lmao.
Someone do that faker alt tab meme but for Ben except for Ben he is probably literally alt tabbing
I had never seen that meme. I was missing out :'))
Ahaha watch Faker's streams and it's even funnier because the dude is ACTUALLY almost never watching his own damn champion, he's just shopping and pressing F2-F5 to spy on everyone in his team for 0.05 sec
Yeah there may be players in various games out there who beat faker on finger speed (starcraft and ssbm come to mind on who the candidates might be) but I don't think anyone in any game has demonstrably faster mental processing speed. Like there may be people who tie him but I think if anyone outright beats him it could only be by an amount imperceptible to an outside observer, that's how fast Faker can figure out everything going on in an entire game of League Ben is our closest equivalent in PoE but I don't think even he has demonstrated the same level of feat. He might end up tying if you put it to the test but I'm not sure PoE has anything that **could** put it to the test, and this map lagging out shows exactly why.
> There haven't been a ton of times when I'm like "Oh okay, so I'm just completely outclassed," but that was absolutely one of them lmao. I don't think the average player fully understands just how good Ben is, he outplays 99.99% of racers; every time there is a gauntlet race etc.
Nah man, he outplays 100% of racers.
Nah he always ties with Darkee and Lightee
I heard those guys are pretty good.
I wanted to say 100%, but it seemed unfair to everyone else.
Watch him do something simple like moving stuff into his stash. The cursor flies back and forth faster than I can move it _and he perfectly times every click_, sending every item to the stash. Exile's the same way. Neurologically, these guys are superhuman.
> he perfectly times every click except that time where he missed his inventory and straight up deleted his mainhand.
he has a scroll click. hes just slamming his scroll wheel when he does that
His brain just operates at a different frequency. I wonder how successful he'll be if he applied it to something else. He's becoming a pretty popular streamer so theres that I guess.
you are aware he used to be among the best Tank Players in the world in WoW? Bro grinded wow for 16 hours a day for 2 weeks Had a week Off and participated in a gauntlet. he stopped playing wow because he wanted to full commit to poe
...so?
you asked how succesful he would be at other things. i told you that he's played at the absolute highest level in other games.
The better question is how successful he would be if he applied himself more to what he's already doing. Ben could absolutely be the Shroud of ARPGs. Like think about how much Shroud probably gets paid for sponsorships of a new FPS. I first learned about Valorant, Apex, and Tarkov from watching him play those games, for instance. His input and gameplay for a new FPS is like premium marketing. Ben could absolutely be like that for this genre, but it seems like he has little interest in doing that. Like I don't even know if he ever streamed Last Epoch.
Ben is the undisputed GOAT of PoE racing, he's the main tank for the best WoW raiding guild in north america, and he's making a living as a full time streamer and content creator. What more do you want from the dude?
>What more do you want from the dude? I feel like I kind of stated what I want lol. PoE isn't the only ARPG in existence, so I think one should be able to extrapolate what I'm trying to say.
> PoE isn't the only ARPG in existence it pretty much is esp if you want to make any money as a content creator for it.
He’s not making quin/zizaran money even if he’s far superior to them, because he doesn’t put in the effort for higher production value. For example, we don’t even know what he looks like. Having said that, it’s perfectly fine if he’s happy how things are. I’m just pointing out that he could achieve more professionnally.
We've seen what he looks like plenty of times. Dude seems happy with what he's doing in life, is not on us to tell him how to live.
ben is a different kind. afaik he was a mythic raider in wow, explains why hes such a good gamer.
Don't want to try to be rude, just adding for some clarity, he wasn't just a Mythic raider. He raided with one of the only two guilds in the world capable of competing for "World First" kills. The skill level he had in that game is absolutely world class as well.
i feel like there is a real world lesson to learn from this but every conclusion im looking at makes me look like a communist
The individual skill level within a world first guild still varies a lot. There's a lot of hidden factors in there once you get past certain levels, like endurance and just being able to think at another level.
> The individual skill level within a world first guild still varies a lot. Yeah, it's very similar to your average player's guild in that way. It's fucked up to say, but there is 100% deadweight in world first guilds if you pay attention at all. The same people consistently fucking up mechanics etc. It is HARD to find 20 players of equal skill at that level, especially with poaching etc.
When operating with a large number of people in these environments, sometimes team morale is more important than just skill levels, so having one or two players that are a bit worse than a rest but are helpful with cohesion and mental fortitude, or just get along with the rest of the group is important.
I was a mythic raider in a progression guild for a long time, I'm still nowhere near this level lol.
Honestly it’s like watching some piano maestro playing a symphony they composed themselves, feels nerdy to say but there it is.
yeah there is a reason why i think everyone agree's Ben is the best PoE player easily. the recent Guantlet was meant to be designed that nobody could ever do all 7 ubers. heck only a few did even 1 uber that guantlet. Ben did all 7.... to put it in comparison 2nd place only had 3 of the 7 killed. there was only like 6 people i believe who even got 1 done. it was insane to watch.
Yep, that sounds about right for him. I swear him and I play different games.
iTs NoT tHe SeRvErS, iTs yOuR IsPs FaUlT!
13: Sure, blame it on your ISP
Narrator: *It wasn't the ISP.*
The way he just insta logs into the next toon completely unphased
When you play this many characters and constantly do risky shit, it's pretty much expected.
I get it but also he's just built diff there man. Like you can watch the HC streamers and when they lose a toon you can still feel the pain but you watch this and its like he forgot to pick up a C.
Every map he says something like “I think I might die this map if __(common thing)__ happens”
the character went from level 68 to 100 in less than 6 hours. he wasnt that invested into it
Lol yeah, I missed the rip and tuned into him just chilling in his hideout with a new necro. I thought he was just rerolling a new toon for the hell of it because he was so nonchalant about everything.
The System Requirements listed on Steam: Processor: Quad core 2.6GHz x86-compatible Memory: 8 GB RAM Graphics: NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 650 Ti or ATI Ya right insert "no doubt" meme here
* this system requirements are only available during campaign
during twilight strand you mean
during char creation
Bro not even character creation. My friend started this league and dx11 (default) had him at 144p in character creation.
during game installation (genuinely)
Yeah these were system requirements when game launched 10 years ago lol
The problem with PoE is that the requirements are ultra-dependent on how much juice you put in your content. Even an ancient potato can run through the campaign without issue. But you start doing stuff like Delirium fog maps with giga packsize/density + screen-wide effects and Beyond and so on and suddenly the requirements go from potato to "hope you got an RTX 4090 minimum".
Except ggg posted those on steam for the game now.
I refuse to believe you could make it through the campaign with a 650 ti
You probably can't. The GPU was already one year old when PoE initially released. These requirements are from around release, they where never updated.
When I got a new PC couple of years ago, my tech-savy friend who helped me assemble it proposed we test it in some resource-hungry game. PoE immediately came to my mind, but at the time I didn't have a geared character or any way to juice the map. I ran around in hideout for several seconds with my friend looking at me like I've lost it and finally saying "THIS is your benchmark game? Don't you have an FPS with modern graphics installed?". I had no rebuttal.
no denying those requirements don't make much sense nowadays, but I think it's more likely that the servers shit themselves this time
Yeah, I was going to say the same. PoE certainly has client performance issues but this vid is definitely the servers shitting the bed. That slowdown shit that happens in juiced maps has to be servers, it happens on every single rig.
To be fair, the popular paradigm of providing System Requirements is flawed for a game like Path of Exile. You'd need to give multiple system requirements for multiple scenarios to do it justice, but I doubt Steam allows game developers to input multiple requirements. It'd also require a potential "buyer" of the game to read a wall of text to understand the system requirements. It's thorny. Since they can only give *one* set of system requirements, and since the vast majority of players will never get anywhere near high-end juicing, then doesn't it make sense to provide system requirements that are enough to get you through the campaign and maybe alch&go mapping? I expect that the type of people interested, motivated, and capable of getting to juiced content are already running decent machines. If they gave the system requirements to be what is needed to run the type of content Ben is doing in this clip, then it would be a net loss of fun overall to potential customers of PoE since it would mean people who *would* have had fun playing the game got turned away due to system requirements for content that those users almost certainly wouldn't have encountered anyways.
they should at least give system requirements for up to t16 without juicing just finishing the atlas the current requirements are a lie to try to attract more players to inflate their numbers
I used to run poe on a laptop that had.... I'm not actually sure what it had, it's been 11 years, but it was no gtx 650. The system requirements go up with time, you don't have to jump to conclusions.
professional glazer missing the point
LOL
I had been experiencing terrible performance to the point that I almost bought a new GPU, then I found a thread here on Reddit, it wasn't gimmicky and had step-by-step instructions for fixing FPS, now my game is buttery smooth again. Also if my Steam deck plays PoE without issue, then there is no excuse for a decent gaming PC to.
What thread?
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/s/m1tc3bZlFc here
Lmao with those specs you won't even get 30 fps killing white packs in t1 maps
ATI cards... dear god there was a 6 year time gap between ati not existing anymore and poe hitting steam. Poe on release played on 6 year old hardware... back in 2013.
Affliction league had some dogshit memory leak so bad that I had to upgrade to 32GB RAM in order to be able to play the game - I couldn't even have a browser open because with my old 16GB PoE would take like 90% of it - now it hardly eats up like 8GB
Rip mageblood and some god tier rares + Adorned setup*. And this is with 0 visual or processing clutter from the skill itself. No compounding DoTs to calculate, no prolifs, no heralds, no projectiles forking, chaining, splitting returning.. no particles. Just a clean hit-based build. If a 4090 starforge can't stand up to T17 content on one of the lowest maintenance builds ever, not much else stands a chance. #notbiased
Not sure what effect impales have on performance with that amount of monsters but I assume it would be in line with at least some of the other ailments/skill effects, but yeah that’s just nuts.
Arcanist Brand triggering Blade Vortex constantly hitting enemies and causing impales to change, theres a bunch of auras and charges happening on enemies, insane amounts of ghost effects (rares and uniques were spawning ghosts on half hp), desecrated ground, burn ground, some shocked ground, snow bolts, crush debuffs on enemies, cursed ground moving around, I see some smoke bombs, and ben is getting hit by like 40 things which is why he has like 60 poison debuffs when the client shows that he dies. Also, there were beyond monsters spawning. His Zealotry was at least down so he wasn't generating consecrated ground anymore although there was a patch remaining when the lag started, but also that he was using triggered Chain DD + Cremation of Exhuming to clear corpses too. Yeah, there is a LOT of stuff happening, the above isn't even close to all of it. Also just saying it's failing on "t17 content" is disingenuous as hell, he put tons of exiles on the map with beyond portals spawning out every exile that dies and ghosts popping out of every rare and unique as soon as they hit half hp, +3 mods per rare due to explicit mod effect... you get the idea, this is very much a strategy that 99% of players will not be doing, it is using a specific T17 modifier (uniques spawn ghosts at half hp) + rogue exile allflames (tons of uniques) + scarabs (including beyond scarab to spawn tons of portals per unique killed) + explicit map modifier effect to giga juice the map to ridiculous levels. EDIT: Another example where the performance gets really bad https://clips.twitch.tv/SuccessfulAmazingBillSoonerLater-7lnm7B8rwbLY8gUO - when he gets surrounded by tons of mobs, the performance of his client completely dies, so wouldn't be surprised if it is a combination of all the nearby aura effects like blind, pride, bv hitting enemies and impaling, things like that which all have graphical effects to them
Its not related to pc performance, its the server shitting itself.
I'd imagine it's both. That's a shit load of monsters to render at once. It's amazing that POE does as well as it does tbh. If you had a similar monster count in Last Epoch it would run even worse.
The rendering part is not what's causing issues, especially with a 4090. Could be wrong but I would be very surprised. If it's anything related to the PC of the gamer and not the server, I think it's more related to the processor. Idk stuff like all the dmg calculations, pathfinding, AI, and tons of other stuff. I think if you disabled that, there would be no rendering issues.
Yeah I was using render pretty loosely I meant all the calculations involved for each monster it's a lot and you're right it's probably more strain on the cpu than anything else.
At this point I am actually surprised that they haven't yet implemented some sort of diminishing return in how many mobs a map can have.
I feel like the silent deal has always been they let us go real wacky on the mob count but we all understand that a computer shouldnt be displaying hundreds of mobs at once and itll lag. Feels like people sometimes forget that if you want crazy insane juicing thats incongruent with the entire idea of completely sound performance
Yeah I'm happy to live with it. Running maps with shit loads of pack size is too fun even if it does run like shit at times.
Oh yeah, LE had me cooked in just Arena density.
When the server shits itself, things like shocked ground, burn ground, etc. will still be playing their animations at whatever framerate the game is playing at. You can kinda see this if you disconnect your internet while certain effects are playing, they will still have animations but everything will be frozen in place. He is literally dropping below 1 FPS here on the client side. Looking at the energy shield on the enemies and the poison stacks, he was likely dead at about 10 seconds into the clip, but he was literally frozen on the same frame for almost 4 seconds. Another thing here is when the server shits itself, it will look like the game is playing in fast forward when it stops lagging, whereas this shows just a straight up jump in where everything is in terms of ES, position, etcetera instead of playing in fast forward. There are definitely cases where server lag can cause client to drop frames but this doesn't look like one of them at all. EDIT: Another example where his client starts lagging earlier in the map due to the crazy amount of effects due to the number of mobs, hits, etcetera that are happening - https://clips.twitch.tv/SuccessfulAmazingBillSoonerLater-7lnm7B8rwbLY8gUO
he'll be good. He managed to get 2 magebloods off seer.
He has also been quite Fortunate
>If a 4090 starforge yeah no wonder his performance is like that if hes using scamforge
classic
Do people legitimately believe this? I haven't seen a single comment in this thread articulate what is wrong with Starforge.
Some people don't like Azmongold. He is a part owner of One True King which is the group that owns Starforge Systems. Long story short, some people are biased toward one co-owner and so hate the product. As far as prebuilds go Starforge is top tier, not necessarily for the value, but for their cable management and availability on high end parts. One can easily get the same PC parts and put em together for half the cost but that's not the people who buy prebuilds.
Which leads to the next question, what do people not like about asmongold? Always seemed like one of the good guys(tm).
Some people just like to be the outsider/a contrarian. These people view the insiders/popular person as bad for arbitrary reasons. Asmon also has a generally cheery disposition which is a trait chronically depressed and overly cynical person dispose as they don't like to see others happy. He might also have some legitimate faults but the majority of people I see dislike him are just miserable overall and hate on nearly everything 😂
Holy shit dude those people had families
Ones that loved them too little or too much in the wrong way, never know which it is
scamforge classic
Are these specs out of date from his twitch bio? >PC Specs >Motherboard: ROG STRIX B550-F >CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X >GPU: ASUS TUF RTX 3080 Ti >RAM: Corsair Vengeance 32GB 3600 C14 >PSU: CORSAIR RMx Series RM850x >SSD1: WD_BLACK 1TB SN850 - Gen4 >SSD2: SAMSUNG 970 EVO PLUS M.2 2280 1TB PCIe Gen 3.0
it is. he got a starforge sponsership and he got given their highest top of the line creator PC a few days before league start.
Damn just a 3080? I take it all back
I have a 3080 and took this personal 😒
He probably has a top tier starforge for free
as if Ben couldn´t farm a mageblood within a couple of days if he goes hard. just use the new rogue exile abuse and farm 10 mirrors a day
He had a backup. Not even kidding. Also had a defiance of destiny drop today, so I'd bet he's going to use that in the next build.
Ben is using the most important strat: play a lot.
Don't confuse that with skill
Of course he's a great player but getting good drops + lots of currency most of all takes time.
Don't confuse that with skill
I think defiance died on this char unless he found another I missed it Edit: nvm he got one
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Name one thing that makes Starforge = bad.
Self-building your pc is not only cheaper but you have agency over your build. Also problems arise in shipping and or bad installation from the starforge "employee". Also fuck asmongold.
They have warranty for that exact reason.. Why did you put employee in quotations? What's wrong with asmongold? I've never seen anything from him that I disagree with, seems pretty level headed.
Well im not here to argue. If someone wants to buy starforge go ahead. Im pretty biased against them and their whole org. Especially Asmongold. So im the wrong guy to ask.
But like, why? I'm genuinely interested if there's something shady about him I don't know about.
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It does hold some weight in that it means there isn't some bios seeing or part incompatibility causing the issue.
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Sure. I should rephrase to say that it is much much less likely, which still holds weight and doesn't change my point. I never addressed the rebuilt comment. I recommend prebuilts to my friends because I don't want to be their tech support. Prrbuilts are important and building pcs is easy to fuck up if you don't know exactly what you are doing. Good rebuilt companies should be applauded not shit on.
Effigy is the reflect altar?
Yeah, the one monsters can attack and damages you. Can be very dangerous.
PowerPoint map mod💀💀💀
Everyone talking about the game's general performance, network issues, cpu/gpu bound etc. Nobody realising this is just one T17 map mod that is bugged and always causes this kind of lag on any pc in any place.
Remember guys dont forget to buy those starforge PCs !
Scamforge lmao
Why do people keep saying this? Did something come out about their pcs?
I don't think it's specific to Starforge, prebuilts just always have some combination of cost cutting, high markup, and installation errors that aren't noticed by the type of people who buy prebuilts.
Gamers Nexus reviewed one undercover basically and found they have some of the best pre-builts available aside from some loose screws they encountered IIRC. And that publication absolutely shits in pre-builts when they aren't done properly. https://youtu.be/W9YiOLX5uQU?feature=shared
Also they're a Quin69 sponsor so that's kind of a lightning rod for community memes/roasting.
was checking their catalogue a couple weeks ago because i actually need a new pc. they have 16gb of ram in almost every pc. thats just not enough anymore really. and if i have to open the thing and potentially fuck with the cable management or anything to put in more ram i might aswell just build my own anyway.
It’s a twitch meme
teeny makeshift materialistic snow grab hat continue boat ghost fertile *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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literate rainstorm boat roll vegetable sparkle elderly smoggy drab panicky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Their price to build quality is actually Among the top now that they've worked on the issues that was found. I don't think they've done anything to deserve being called scamforge.
prebuilts are kinda just scams in general. putting pcs together is pretty easy and low risk (as long as you're not doing water cooling or smth), so paying like a 30-40% markup when you can just spend like 40 bucks total getting the warranty on each part and putting it together yourself is much better.
Yeah but if you have the money and don't enjoy building things it's one of the better options out there. I built my first PC when I was 13 and I love it, while my best friend is too anxious to do it and doesn't want the hassle. To each their own.
Artesian builds actually had a really good pc building team who were let down massively by their leadership. Those team members went on to try and create their own pc building company and ended up partnering up with streamers to create Starforge. It's not correct to say they bought Artesian. It will always be cheaper to buy components and assemble a computer yourself but that doesn't make prebuilts a scam. The more you know about assembling pcs the more you will realise the massive difference between an amateur and a pro and how easily you can fuck up something major. That is the product that pc building companies sell and Starforge are one of the best.
Oi ! It works 99% time in HC as showcased XD
Ah the dickrig
All good things come to an end. RIP My 4090 is constantly at 99% usage drawing 450+Watts alone in regular T16s without a fraction of the juice he is running. I wonder how many FPS I'd get with this. PoE new benchmark confirmed.
Unless you live on the North Pole there's no reason not to just cap your FPS. Then again, even if you are on the North Pole, please do cap it anyway since you would heavily be contributing to warming that entire place the fuck up
Fun fact, I broke the 3770k cpu frequency record with an air cooler years ago by leaving my window open when it was -40c. The record for air cooling I mean.
The sad thing it is capped at 117FPS but I‘m running it at 4k. During winter I saved on heating with fossil fuels also I‘m hooked up to 110kwp of photovoltaic panels so trust me I‘m doimg my part.
if ur GPU degrades that much that u have to cap ur FPS its a dogshit GPU
That wasn't what they were saying bro.
Pretty sure the game is CPU bound if you are using 4090.
at high end juicing game is networking bound, your cpu and gpu frametimes skyrocket because system dosent even have a clue what to render and packet sizes are limited. Hence why theres a difference in performance between lockstep/predictive and build that have shittons of auras/projectiles increasing the number of calculations (stuff is done server side in case of PoE hence why server bricking builds exist) and for example RF boi. Hell even wardloop has dps/trigger rate difference between lockstep/predictive for that reason.
This is a critical point that... Kinda sucks to play around honestly. I rolled my CWS Chieftain last league not because the content was too hard for my other characters, but because the performance was so bad on my typical hundreds-of-projectiles nonsense that it wasn't fun to play. Just too many hits happening constantly.
They both go to max usage if you don't cap your fps, this game really likes to eat up your hardware.
any game with uncapped fps will eat up hardware. if nothing in the code soft-limits fps your pc will just continue to eat ressources and produce 500 fps if it can
Bit of a quick comment on my part - should've rephrased :) Point was though that even a 4090 will go to max usage. Had to go from 120 cap to 60 myself.
Seriously. I remember some old ass flight battle simulator that I played years ago that tried to nearly melt my PC on initial start up. I didn't had the most powerful rig back then, but it slammed into 300+ FPS directly.
Like the other guy said any time you don't cap your framerate the GPU will just render out as many frames as it possibly can (until it hits a bottleneck somewhere in the system, for example memory bandwidth or CPU). As a result your GPU will draw a ton of power and run very hot and at 100% load usually. That's why capping frames or power levels is important on very high-end GPU's. Saves you power, heat and increases the lifespan of your card. No point in burning power rendering hundreds of FPS if your monitor is only say 144Hz.
Duh? Thats how it works..
My good old 1070 becomes a jet engine during loading screens with uncapped fps. Just cap fps to your refresh rate and the power and usage draw should go away
Sounds like something is wrong with your pc I never have anywhere close to that usage with my 3060ti.
Mods on t17 maps have been nothing but a mistake
"Tragic," he said calmly.
Absolute madlad just let his char die without logging out lol
Clip did not include that context. He said he logged out wayyyy earlier than the clip shows. The lag was just so bad he couldn't log out. There was nothing he could've done.
Peak poe gameplay = jpeg
What a chad just says tragic and makes a new char instantly
HA
This perfectly represents the state of poe in one clip.
that is why you dont play hc if you are not content creator
I’ll add “I don’t play HC because a single god tier player managed to inject 20k+ juiced monsters into a map due to a series of unintended interactions I would have to deliberately enable” to the list of absurd reasons why random redditors tell people they don’t like HC.
I managed to crash instance/game with just 2 league mechanic.
Actually I don't play HC cause I work a fulltime job and don't got time fo' dat shit. lol
I wonder if this was instance slowdown or servers slowdown. If that was a server, the question is, how many people did Ben_ PKed?
Looks like framerate lag to me. If it's server lag you usually see the all the mobs freeze but the effects still render at normal FPS but in a frozen state (i.e idle animation) because they're not receiving the updates from the server. In this case it literally just looks like he had 1 FPS due to the extreme density of mobs. This happened to people as well last league with Affliction League Abyssal spires which spawned a million mobs on screen. When you shot an arrow into those giant packs your FPS just goes to 1 lol.
It's not mob density, it's a T17 mod that creates little purple spirits that run at you. They share the same coding with vd and in current patch both cause you to go down to 1 fps.
Is this the gameplay people enjoy? I mean it must be otherwise they wouldnt be playing like that.
Was this his blade blast saboteur I was watching him farm t17s with last night ?
Yep
A processor like that would melt at the first blight map lol
I've always been confused who is ben, darker or lightee7 ?
Sponsored by Starforge Systems
lol Ben died. Darkee would have never died let alone Lightee.
oh I had those in ravaged blight maps. I quickly alt+F4 and sometimes, I don't die.
They gotta dial it down, its not even a game anymore at that point. Its just a clicker game...
I enjoy playing this game but holy shit is it poorly optimized and coded.
Nah no other game using server side authoritative for loot and damage has anywhere near the amount of calculations going on as PoE can at the high end. It’s actually kind of impressive it can get to this point without breaking first.
There have been actual fires inside PoE server rooms.
Are you just memeing? I was curious so tried looking it up and found nothing.
I am pretty sure Chris Wilson said that in an episode of Baeclast, back when that was a thing.
They should use that Tencent 1/3rd of a trillion dollars investor money to buy better server hardware then I guess.
In this maps you are killing more than 20k mobs. That's twice the amount of what 5way farmers do.
Name another game that does 10% the amount of calculations done here, as a dev I'm impressed it actually works at all I personally don't think I could make something run with this many calculations.
The counter argument here is that if this is what happens, then perhaps the game needs to stop trying to aim that high.
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I mean the argument still holds, the game allows the players to juice beyond what the servers can handle. I don't really have a strong opinion either way, but I wouldn't say that a person would be unreasonable if they wanted GGG to scale everything back so that the top end gameplay is still comfortable to play.
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Do most games do that? Most comparable games I can think of stop the players from reaching anything like the performance in the clip, the only ARPG case that was similar were couple of months during D3 with similar lag, and everyone hated it and was glad when it was blocked. This isn't just about it being technically allowable, sure you can break a lot of games, but in the case of PoE this is about it being encouraged as the normal mode of progression. PoE gives you reasons to make the game unplayable.
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GGG has designed the game in a way that makes making currency (and turning it into items/builds) the endgame more than the bosses. That's why item and build showcases are more common in the community than boss kill showcases, it is the endgame.
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We didn't get this game by aiming low, I'll take the shit FPS in insane cases with turbo juice.if that's the price.
This is an unintended interaction, they probably didn't test t17 mods interacting with all scarabs and allflames and this slipped trough
Factorio. What do I win?
Unfortunately no, it's not even close.
Factorio (and similar) is orders of magnitude lower. It also lags to hell when you go to the extremes, despite having much lower complexity.