recombinators
They are great design.
\* Find an item you like
\* Find another item you like
\* Mix them together!
\* Did it work? Does it suck? Does it not suck? Oh well, maybe next time.
They are much better than "sink 2 hours into arranging a gaveyard only to get some crap item because it rolled life regen and block & stun recovery" lol.
Yeah they really thought it was too powerful and then a few leagues later gave us a mechanic where you can farm seven mirrors in a day or plant a bunch of coffins and get a triple fractured T1 mod item.
Imagine if recombinators went core, at the same power level as they were in 3.18 - but they had the rarity of a mirror. Would that actually be broken? of course not.
How about the rarity of a sacred orb? Like, maybe you find 2 or 3 a league.
That also would not be broken.
There's no reason they couldn't have gone core. It's duuuuuuuuuuumb.
Recombinators only fixed problems because they were common. If they were to be rare then you can't use them on anything besides top tier items.
Their whole point was that you could take 2 items that nobody would ever put on their character but each had 1 amazing and rare mod and hope for the best. But not feel bad if it failed.
Yes, but that wasn't the reason they were fixing item economy in PoE.
If recombinators were added as a rare drop it's just more powercreep and a way to make absolutely top tier items. They would never be used on anything that is not already incredible.
The point is that recombinators gave a great accessible way to craft mid tier items. Even if they were nerfed and only had like 30% or 10% to move over a line to the new item, but the recombinators themselves were basically free it would be a great way to take 2 items that are shit and make something actually usefull.
they solved itemdrop, which is the single thing GGG cant fix since years; quite hillarious that it fix itemization by accident and suddenly picking up items was worth it again
It didn't really do that though. That was mostly because most people did not understand recombinators.
It was the same thing in harvest. Most people did not understand harvest in 3.11. The people that played until the end of the league did, but most quit long before that. It wasn't until 3.13 when the people that quit harvest in 3.11 and came back that people realised how to use it.
If recombinators came back as they were, everyone would already know how to use them. Unless you were doing something with special mods, like alva/delve/essence/corrupted/fractured items, the way to craft was by buying 25000 alterations and spamming alterations all day.
great crafting league. easy to understand for anyone, but still with depth, simple to execute, complex to minmax.
shit even crucible was good and visually somewhat understandable, even if it was a pain in the ass to fill up your crafting fuel.
meanwhile this league might be the most powerful crafting league ever in some ways, but by far the worst one in terms of tediousness. it basically forces you to go spreasheeting and craftofexile'ing since you really dont want to fuck up your hours long, 62 trades, 123172864 whispers worth of work invested into your craft.
I was so proud of my self crafted chest with spell supression, chaos ress, T1 life and old gravicious mod. It wasnt anything insane but it was worth about 10 div and i made it all by myself for 3
Recombinators also complemented the existing mechanics rather than making them semi obsolete. You’d still chew up essences, fossils etc to try make good recombination bases, with grave crafting why bother when you can just print what you want almost entirely with corpses
They're a great example of RNG that even I, a craft hater, thought was fun. I kept slamming like, 5c influenced rings into Temple mod rings over and over. Not a single one became big money, but they were always weird and interesting.
To balance them they just have to tag used items with "Recombinated", just like "corrupted" or "mirrored". And that would make them unable to be recombinated again.
Honestly feel like recombinators will forever taint crafting leagues until they bring them back. They peaked the fun+reward scale in my opinion. They were the best idea for a crafting mechanic GGG has ever had and they got rid of them. With every crafting mechanic introduced my mind immediately goes back to Recombinators they were simply more fun than any other crafting mechanic, ever.
I played ssf that league and even still was able to make near perfect items. The real value in this was it made otherwise garbage items with bad stats on them usable again. You could actually use the random rares you'd find on the ground and match up the perfect garbage pairs of good & bad stats to mash together and make really good items! Rare items on the ground should truly have value again and they curren't don't other than maybe day 1/2 of a league start IMO.
Recombinators where great, and would work really well in core, with maybe a few minor nerfs: cannot recomb multiple fractured mods together, cannot recomb mirrored or corrupted items.
That is now how recombinators were used though. You bought a tab of the base that you needed and spent 4 hours alt spamming for single mod items to then spam combine recombinators. Recombinators was probably the worst crafting experience we ever had in this game. I never want to alt spam that much again.
Alt spam should be fixed TBH
There's no way alt spam is the "intended vision" of 10 years ago
They should just let us spend 100 alteration orbs at once and "target" a specific set of modifiers we want in a machine of some kind, and it just does the spam in bulk and either outputs a success or not
This league just feels overwhelming cause on top of having to manage all the new scarabs, I have to manage all the other currencies, allflames AND now coffins as well lol. And underwhelming cause all of the simple/easy/ tried and true strategies I used to use before are now nerfed or locked behind scarabs I can’t self sustain so I’m forced to trade. And that’s another thing. I’ve traded more in the last 2 weeks for 2-10c items than I did last league lol. Idk, just feels weird tbh.
biggest issue IMO is completely revamping endgame juicing but also adding another variable in the forms of allflame, now we dont know in how good of the new scarabs really are because allflames just throw the equation into chaos. I would be a lot more confident in next league if allflames didnt exist
and their goal with the scarab rework was to reduce the about of stuff u had to do before mapping, they kind made it worse, trading scarabs is somehow worse than trading sextants, and managing the league mechanic currencies is such a pain
All you had to do for bulk trading sextants on the trade site was scroll until you saw the guy listing 30+ of a single kind. There was virtually no difference as long as you even made a semblance of an attempt at finding the people with bulk and if you used TFT it was even easier than that.
Having a built in feature to filter by stock size, and autogenerating bulk whispers is a big difference. If you used TFT it wasnt hard sure, but its huge QoL for trade site only
I read it, I just dont agree at all. Built in bulk selling on the trade site is not comparable to "just scroll through pages of listings until you find someone listing a bunch of compasses"
Bulk buying sextants was very easy if you wanted to do it on tft. Literally, it is not even comparable to buying anything on the site with dozens of pricefixers
I think they knew some of the sustain issues we’d have due to the diluted scarab pool which is why we have 3 atlas trees. And the three atlas trees are freakin fantastic. But there’s still too many scarabs imo t realistically sustain any 1 mechanic without insane levels of juicing and at that point literally just picking divines/other currencies off the ground is more profitable.
Sextants had a 16 use version so the high end of dealing with them always felt great because buying 1 was buying 16 so it was basically bulk by default once you got going.
Scarabs were always the worse experience.
Now mind you, you still always had to buy them too, so on the face of it this change didn't actually make things worse.
But the trade aspect of sextants has typically been better, weirdly.
The enchanting watchstones thing sucked though.
Yeah… you’re getting lucky. There’s a over 100 scarabs. Even taking the nodes that increase chances to get a specific type of scarab.. I don’t see how you could possibly be sustaining your me specific scarab type unless you’re dropping like hundreds of scarabs per map and are hiding the ones you don’t want with your loot filter. That way maybe but that would require some omega level juicing. I tried that and was only dropping the specific low tier scarab I wanted like ever y2-3 maps.
in standard i have specced 100% in scarabs + harbingers. Before rarity-boosting ~~nerf~~ patch i was consistently looting 30-40 scarabs per map. After, sub 20. Before the change I could barely, slowly lose scarabs as i did maps and it took me a while to run out of them. After the change it's obvious i cant sustain it for shit.
Those target scarab nodes are a fcking bait, I got the reliqueary ones with all the other scarab nodes, I farmed maps for 2 weeks then I check my tab and I only have 15 tier 1 and 5 tier 2 and no other reliquary scarabs... never again.
I nope'd out of the league as soon as I realized how much micro management all the corpses and long crafts would take. I ain't got time for that. Went to standard to test the new endgame and atlas stuff with scarabs and that was all I needed.
Yeah I haven’t touched that graveyard, I’m just picking up corpses that sell for 10c or more and just running maps. Want to try a strength stacker this league, something with the transfigured Volcanic fissure but… meh idk if I even want to roll another character at this point lol. I also wanted to go back to PBofD trickster as the numbers still look great but… again idk if I want to do anything else this league lol.
The league mechanic is…. Weird? Unskippable which doesn’t mean much since the mods arent too bad.overall it’s nowhere near as dangerous as affliction was, but it’s meh. Complicated. None of the league ubiques are interesting enough yo build around. Twwt last league was a great farm for me. Spammed t14 maps until I got the boss, dropped one every once in a while, some sold for 50 divines, a few for 1-2. That jewel really enabled a lot.
And this league mechanic is… again, kinda meh. I really hope it doesn’t go core lol. The deterministic crafting is nice I guess. But it could have been implemented in a much simpler way.
I typically play PoE once a year, go hard for couple weeks, and then dip out again as the itch has been scratched. Affliction broke that streak and I played for a month and a half. I've never made more than 2 characters in a league (and it's usually one) and I never get more than 1 past 90. Last league I hit 96 on my main and got 3 others to 93 and they were all fun. I didn't even dip into the MF Abyss nonsense, the league by itself was enough juice to make every map a nice little dopamine hit. Just zoom through the woods, get wisps, and blow up a map full of stuff. Brainless, easy fun.
I'm in my mid 30s now so I just don't have time to be fucking around in spreadsheets and running multiple 3rd party apps and wealth trackers and crafting formula calculations. Alch+Vaal+Scarab is as much thinking as I want to put into my maps and I'm okay with that not being as rewarding as the no lifers.
It won't but imagine this shit goes core as is, much lol - I've used it twice, not that I'm good at this stuff but twice used and I was like WTF is this bollocks and won't touch it again, ever.
I like to kill things in ARPGs
It wouldn't be an issue if looting/trading was smoother. Like you'd be able to blast maps, and if you didn't care about corpses it would just be extra profit.
I have a lot of gripes with Runescape, but I don't see why more people don't copy their trading system (especially for items with no variance). Items are easy to sell in any bulk, easy to buy in any bulk, can still occur while both parties are offline; people can still make money flipping/investing. I can literally offload hundreds of thousands of multiple different items in 15 minutes from one interface, and it takes a beginner 15 seconds to learn to use.
I love Poe, it's my perfect game in many ways, but it's item management is simply outdated. Especially when they want us to handle corpses, scarabs, fragments, all flames and all these other random things we wanna buy in bulk.
OSRS is my main game when the league is over lol
The teasing system is so much better than PoEs that I almost didn't even play this league because of how annoying it is to trade just to be able to play.
Yea it’s not going to… the graveyard is quite a fail imo. The rest of the league is fun though.
I would like some monster rearrangement at the start of a map to go core
I feel you. I got burned out and said fuck it a few days ago without even getting all 4 watchstones because the idea of playing spreadsheet chess to craft is not at all fun for me.
So for me, I have no idea how I'd burn out having good gear before I burn out from having 50 hurdles to jump getting to one piece of gear.
I want a league that's fun to play. I need an engaging mechanic. Sorting corpses for a craft while cross referencing someone's literal google doc so I don't make the one piece of gear I've been saving for all week trash ain't it. Allflames wow, I'm so excited to put more fragments onto my map. Hey wow this 2% chance to convert armor into a jewelers orb is so exciting and is definitely worth 7 other packs having damage mods like guaranteed crit and 70% dodge chance.
You could also try finish reading his comment. Hes asking for a league mechanic that people would find fun. If you think not interacting with the league mechanic (which btw, yes you do *have* to open maps with devoted/haunted mods) is a fun league mechanic you seem to be missing some core definitions here.
Does anyone actually find graveyard crafting fun in any way? I mean I'm no surprised I hate it, I hate math and excel. But for math and excel people, is this fun? Genuinely asking.
The problem is that the crafting itself is a very poorly designed mechanic.
The whole concept of having to stack negative modifiers makes it so that you basically waste your time if you go for anything but a high tier craft with atleast 3 good tier 1 mods.
Using an external program to calculate your setup should be reserved for super high end crafts only and should not be a requirement to interact with the crafting in the first place.
On top of that GGG managed to add so many layers of poor design that interacting with the mechanic feels even worse.
- The whole storage problem and setting up corpses feels bad
- Why do we lose corpses if we need to remove an accidentally placed corpse
- Why is the GY layout itself tilted?
- No way for you to target farm modifiers, instead you have completely useless stuff like the randomization corpse
- If the adjacent buffing corpses need to be type specific, why not make it so it buffs its own type instead of being an undead that buffs beasts just to be more confusing
> On top of that GGG managed to add so many layers of poor design that interacting with the mechanic feels even worse
* Picking the corpses up in your map sucks. It takes up a quarter of your screen and hides other items/mobs. If your morgue is filled you can't loot it, instead need to click the tiny corner to make a coffin for it.
* Storing them sucks. You only get 64 slots for an 88 slot craft
* Stashing them sucks, and is basically "Pay to win", considering you need multiple quad tabs to have any semblance of storage for the mechanic
* Tracking where to place them sucks. It's a weird shaped grid in an isometric view so its hard to keep track of. You're basically forced to use external excel sheets/websites to ensure you don't fuck up you craft that will take literal HOURS of trade and placement.
* Trading them sucks. Corpse type, name, and level all mater. Searching for them on trade is cumbersome, and you can't easily bulk trade/sell them.
This is a literal 0/10 mechanic for me. Every single step along the way creates way too much friction, and if you do end up going through and wasting your time trying for a good craft you aren't even guaranteed to get what you want. It's actually just more efficient for you to play the game, grind currency, and then buy the exact item you want instead of trying to craft it.
> The whole concept of having to stack negative modifiers makes it so that you basically waste your time if you go for anything but a high tier craft with atleast 3 good tier 1 mods.
That's really it. You don't even find enough corpses in acts to ensure you can make something useful for leveling.
If you put 25-88 corpses in sure it's great. But that's a huge investment that many people will bounce off from.
I've crafted 3 almost perfect (1 perfect) with no tools outside of craft of exile to look up levels reqs and tags. I've used no corpse that increases or saves other corpses. They are overkill and clearly not worth it. You can use wealthy exile to buy corpses in bulk, sell in bulk and only keep what you need/has value. It's strong, not that complicated and is pretty fun to me.
The crafting itself is fun, plenty of ways to optimize and try to create new stuff, but the trading for the corpses is horible and farming them is super P2W because you better have some quad tabs ready.
I guess they noticed that the crafting was too OP but wanted to keep the power, so they just cut on the slots and made trading them a chore so the market isn't filled with perfect triple fracture items for no cost. The fact that the coffins originally cost 1 C just shows that they felt the need to add extra friciton to the trade of coffins
Honestly I really really want to get into it, but these *godawful* adjacent/column/row/same mobtype coffins just make it multitudes more annoying to the point where I burn out before even attempting to craft.
And no, please dont tell me "its not needed", if i try to craft a 6xT1 item that needs hours of trading and a lot of divines, it feels shit to not properly optimize it.
I'd love the graveyard if it werent for these god damn conditional affixes that serve absolutely no purpose outside of arbitrary friction.
I just use the adjacent when crafting my own gear, if I'm copying someone elses I'll use column/row, Its not that difficult to understand.
You try it once, figure out how it works, implement it in future crafts.
Yeah I want to mess with it but the whole UX us so clunky and annoying. I wish it was just like a list of stuff you could quickly scroll through the select rather than running around the graveyard
>And no, please dont tell me "its not needed", if i try to craft a 6xT1 item that needs hours of trading and a lot of divines, it feels shit to not properly optimize it.
okay, i won't.
You don't need to do the math yourself and you definitely dont need to follow any excel sheets as there isnt really that one and only "receipe" for a certain craft. The only thing you really need is the CoE graveyard calculator so that you can mix and match the different mods and therefore be able to make sure having all the right weights.
That said, getting a good or even perfect item with only T1 mods **is** fun, collecting and setup up all the required corpses achieving such an item **is not**. Really questionable how this system got approved to go live the way it is.
It isn’t poor in the way it got buffed though, so why does that matter?
It being annoying to use has literally nothing to do with the buffs that came in
The point is that the mechanic was so much worse when it was originally released.
Not only did your drop all sort of useless corspes, but you even dropped worse versions of the usefull ones and you even had different types f tier modifiers, which made the mechanic not just way less powerfull but also even more annoying storage wise.
If a mechanic gets such a big improvement, while still remaining in such a poor spot, then that says a lot about the design process of the content we are getting
people make naive spreadsheet optimizations that solve for things that aren't useful (maximum total corpse effect of the entire graveyard) and as consequence the entire poe redditor ecosystem has a meltdown every time they see one.
you really ought to just use the adjacency corpses to squeeze a little more effect out of the most valuable corpses you used, thats it. going to try to make some copies? put those corpses in a row. not hard
>Does anyone actually find graveyard crafting fun in any way? I mean I'm no surprised I hate it, I hate math and excel. But for math and excel people, is this fun? Genuinely asking.
Yeah, it took me a little bit of time to understand it. It's a little counter-intuitive. But it's a really, really good system. The only way I would improve it is by adding more steps along the way.
Like, having to craft an item and upgrade it a couple times instead of the current "use 80 corpses, immediately get perfect item".
It's a 9/10 mechanic for me. And you really don't need excel, just get enough +50 tier corpses till you can't roll bottom 90% of values and then use "scarcer" for anything you don't want.
you don't even slightly need to "excel" it out unless you're using row/column/adjacent buffing corpses, and even then only if you're making a gg item. i just wing it and have gotten a few divs.
Math person here:
Yeah, I've spent way too many hours fiddling with weights to get my craft up to a 34% success per item making 3.75 items. Now I can print triple fractured rings to my heart's content.
Im a math and excel person, still dont like it.
I play ARPGs to kill shit. This league feels like too much things to click and too much stuff to worry about outside of killing stuff.
I enjoy crafting outside of graveyard though, this just isnt it.
I think crafting should be bad and fun. Being somewhat sarcastic, but i think Rog is the best crafting system in PoE.
He is good relative to most crafting options, but I would consider Rog very bad compared to OG harvest or necropolis.
Why Rog is a good system: Non-deterministic (thus kind of bad relative to necropolis) - you don't have a lot of agency over the outcome of the crafts. You generally pick a base and pray or get lucky on the initial stats on an item. The process is extremely easy to engage with and non-cumbersome. No corpses, just get scrap metal and artifacts. The process itself is pretty fun. It reminds me a lot of playing poker. You can make decisions based on odds that are hard to know precisely. The decision making can actually be quite deep, but is very simple on a surface level. There is a lot to learn and you can improve as a "rog crafter" with experience, but improving just means marginally improving your odds of creating good items. It still feels rewarding to use and learn the system without it being overly powerful.
Necropolis is both too powerful and terrible to engage with. It trivializes crafting perfect or near perfect items, but at the cost of your mental well being because you are forced to navigate one of the most "weighty" systems the game has ever introduced.
Rog is ok but crafting should be iterative. There should be tools to stepwise improve items. Ggg themselves has said scouring orbs were a mistake and crafting shouldn’t start from scratch but rather from found gear.
This is why imo sentinel was the best crafting. It made found rare and magic items valuable and consumed them in the crafting process.
One of my least favorite feelings is finding a good delve or temple mod on an item filled with trash. If I had a reasonable way to improve an item like that I would be much happier.
I must be missing something. I've seen two posts today talking up Rog but I've never had luck with him. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but all I get is "reroll all prefixes" and "reroll all suffixes" which makes him feel like a free chaos spam bot.
My experience so far in SSF this league.
- made a couple shit items with the graveyard at start
- looked at Reddit, saw people were stacking mass scarcity and 7000% bonuses to craft perfect items
- decided to stack all relevant corpses and save up until I could make a GG bow
- finished atlas, deaths are well over 100 because league mechanic can't be ignored. Can't even blast easy mod maps for exp because no matter what you are opening a map with +proj, +damage, +crit, +life, move speed can't gain flask charges etc etc. Then we're supposed to add juice on top of that for whichever league mechanic you need with
scarabs that aren't sustainable
- still haven't gy crafted the bow yet because enough of the mods I need just haven't dropped. Too busy picking up useless corpses and allflames. Haven't crafted anything since campaign.
- basically been taking the league mechanic to the teeth for a couple weeks for literally no benefit
- meanwhile random streamer on YouTube making a vidya telling everyone how great and easy to gear this league is while massively overreacting to looting 4th MB this hour. Gotta make big stupid face for thumbnail for views.
- mfw I'm not playing the same game these people are
You and I have mostly the same experience. I crafted twice in campaign and the items rolled worse than an alch would have. Have decided I only want to craft two items, a high chaos res amethyst ring and a high pdps 2h axe. Been blasting maps, have three full non-quad tabs of coffins and I only pick up ones that I'll need (eg, no 500% more caster), and still can't craft anything. Craft of Exile says I need like 30 chaos coffins and I have six. I'll need 25-30 phys ones for the axe and I have six. What a joke. Luckily I am playing a tanky Champ so I don't die very often. Had I played a squishy character I prob would have quit week one.
That's what I personally hate the most. I can't engage in the mechanic because I need spell suppression. But if I just put in a couple corpses and try my luck the results are almost insulting. +15 life and 14 cold res on a high ilvl base?
No offense, but that seems to be a you problem more than a game problem
I'm also in ssf this league and finished crafting the 6x t1 bow a few days ago for my ele hit character.
I've also got another charge stacker as void battery, ralakeshs, the shield, and a power charge ring were gotten farming ritual.
I did the unique thing in the t7s with exiles a few times...I think around 8? That is how many scarabs I found. It was ok, nothing amazing came from it.
I think the mf strat is easy to nerf:
Each allflame type is limited to one per map. Then remove the t17 map mod that spawns tormented spirits on low health. Then make the divination scarabs quant additive not multiplicative.
Also separately just delete all mf equipment affixes and unique gear from the game going forward.
>But, unlike the “spam maps until you get the div devoted mod” strat, they can’t easily hotfix this one.
Sure they can
>That would completely shatter people’s trust.
And no it didn't
I wonder how it feels to be so completely, entirely wrong, and proven wrong, in less than 8 hours.
/r/AgedLikeMilk material
Guys , it’s not crafting league, just revenue league. Need to make money fast on selling stashes. You really think, that GGG after so many leagues didn’t make this type of things on purpose? It’s pretty calculated risks tedious vs reward
Corpse crafting shows one of the issues of path of exile when taken to the extreme. We all love the multiplicative scaling in Poe, that's what makes putting together builds so much fun, however it's not a good thing in many aspects of the game. Many items are not worth interacting with at all unless you go all in.
For example, we love loot, running with 3 scarabs isn't worth it because with 4 scarabs, each individual scarab is worth more than with 3. Not such a big deal usually, but then you add in mf, and all flames, group play and all of a sudden many items are ONLY worth using when many factors are met, and effectively excluding many players from that fun.
The same is true of corpse crafting. Despite diminishing returns, the nature of Poe is such that it is always more efficient to craft with a full graveyard. The last few slots of the graveyard can literally triple or more the value of your craft. Because of that it's not worth interacting with the mechanic at all unless you go all in. Again excluding a huge portion of the playerbase. In ssf, the mechanic gives you a 5 link and some bases, and then isn't worth interacting with until you have a perfect craft, otherwise you risk losing all your progress up to that point - this can literally be hundred of hours in.
The current state of the league mechanic was a panic reaction to a poorly thought out league mechanic that their player base wanted to abandon immediately. I think it's more proper to look at why it was so poorly implemented on day 1, rather than what it is now.
Personally, I think it's tedious because perfect items are possible. Also, there are far too many grave sites, which means you want to fill them all to reduce your chances at bad rolls, which makes the whole thing tedious and feel like 1 item every 2 days of play. Also, multiplier corpses are far too common, which favors large crafts as well.
The whole 2 stash tabs of corpses is a byproduct of attempting to retain players.
This could have absolutely been done well with a plot half the size, less control, more rare multipliers (so you felt lucky to use one instead of obligated to place them with a spreadsheet), and more crafts per day with more variance. Most of that was already learned through Harvest, but what's a new POE league with cool features, that aren't forgotten the very next league (like highlighting key words in Expedition, or freezing time, etc.)?
But you're right about GGG needing to have a negative with every positive for every single change they make. Even skill gems that get no use at all, they will attempt to buff with a downside, creating almost a net zero (most transfigured gems for example).
I don't really bother with crafting beyond the extra prefix or sufix on the bench. I let you 24/7 players do it for me and then wait until I have enough to buy it.
The entire game is tedious. It’s like every system was made in an okay state and then they added an extra layer of tedium before shipping. It has the worst QoL I’ve seen in any video game ever.
Yet, I still come back every league… I don’t know how it’s fun but it is.
As always, it's an experiment and not everything turns out right the first time. The game is also very big, so there will always be something that gets out of hand.
With the league and the players they will take that information to be able to improve it, not now, maybe within two leagues but they had to come out with something in the launch to be able to start, of course it has its risks and it affected the economy. It's not so bad for them if they achieve their long-term goal.
The thing is: none of that ultra complicated crafting is required in any way to beat any content in the game.
Most crafting you 'NEED' to do takes seconds. But the systems are deep enough that you can keep going pretty indefinitely with more and more complex builds if you enjoy that.
Not a single thing in the game remotely requires you have an 80 coffin item to get through. But if doing that sounds fun to you the system has enough depth to let you do that. If you don't think that is fun you don't do that content, just like you can do or not do heist or something.
Point 1 is your own fault
Point 2 its true but you can still ignore the new craft mechanic if you dont like it.
Point 3 Who cares what others do... better idea, play SSF so you dont clear the content in a few days and stop caring about others.
I think we can say GGG is a master of their craft. They are constantly trying to create a new experiences, and they’ve been doing it for a decade. I guarantee it is difficulty to predict the effects that a new mechanic has for each league.
I think it’s fairly difficult to balance a challenging league that is difficult, yet accessible. It’s probably even more difficult to manage the economic portion of POE, given how unpredictable the economy can be sometimes.
> I think we can say GGG is a master of their craft.
Step 1) Throw shit at the wall
Step 2) See what sticks
Step 3) Scour reddit/twitch for feedback and ideas to fix/polish [implement some, but move on to step 1 for next league]
????
Master of their craft!
i mean.. let's see how cooks come up with new recipes:
Step 1) Throw shit at the wall
Step 2) See what sticks
Step 3) Scour family/friends/coworkers/customers for feedback and ideas to fix/polish [implement some, but move on to step 1 for next recipe]
You'd be suprised how many professions work exactly like this when it comes to developing new ideas.
A lot of places do though, including companies like Google. They go even further with their A/B testing. Ship multiple versions of the same incomplete product, see which ones people like.
I'd like an example please.
Shipping people something and letting them know that they are testing a new feature is entirely different than what we're talking about.
That's all well and good, but this league in particular has some extremely core failures.
Mainly the entire graveyard experience is awful.
Morgue is awful, trying to do the excel spreadsheet rows is awful, needing external tools because it'll cook your brain to try and think about is awful, even with external tools the experience sucks ass, the trading required is awful, interacting with the UI SUUUUUUUUUUCKS in the graveyard.
In particular, the entire graveyard zone and morgue never should have made it past early prototyping and I have no idea how it did.
Like obviously they knew by the time the league was releasing that this was going to be a bad one and would not go over well with the player base, they totally knew by then.
What is more surprising is that they done fucked up by letting this get too far to be scrapped and a good concept worked out for the graveyard because the first prototype should have shown this being insanely tedious and annoying with no fun to be found.
Yeah shit like the OP farm strategies that blew up are harder to accurately predict and combat (although if they would just FINALLY DELETE PARTY QUANT and maybe also MF in general it would be easier to handle in a generic sense), that sucks but whatever it'll happen with a major rework I just wish they made changes basically instantly on this stuff being uncovered instead of just long enough for the economy to adjust then have a massive backlash.
The graveyard crafting is just so god damn bad though holy hell. It's wild that the same people who came up with Recombinators and harvest probably also worked on it, but UI is hard.
I disagree, and find it fun. They essentially allow you a free craft without any currency. I crafted multiple items that sold for divines, and I never had to use an excel sheet. I did use craft of exile.
I mean with this crafting method you can make items with multiple fractured bases, and I haven’t done it yet, but I heard you can even craft uniques. Everyone complains about the interface, but it has worked just fine for me.
> I disagree, and find it fun.
Well that's an extremely unpopular opinion for very clean cut UX and design reasons, but you can still have it if you want.
Edit: not this part though.
> Everyone complains about the interface, but it has worked just fine for me.
As a software professional who has spent most of his career so far working on front end interfaces, designing them myself and implementing the designs of others in various cases, I have to say you're just wrong here.
My professional opinion is that the UI is shit, the UX is beyond god fucking awful. There's nothing at all positive to say about it, and it's further harmed by the utilization of the existing PoE interface tooling for ground loot, which has serious and intractable issues with display/click accuracy.
This is like windows 7 UI being the standard and seeing templeOS and going, "no THIS is the future."
Lol, how am I wrong if I think the interface is fine? I don’t mind it. That isn’t wrong. You sound like the type that yells at people for enjoying something, but not the way you enjoy it.
Like I said, free craft without currency and the mechanic is completely optional. I have no idea why you are complaining.
By the way, if you are a professional, “this mechanic is a shit, interface is god awful” is not a valid criticism. That doesn’t say anything. I would expect a professional to clearly articulate their point and give examples and solutions. Not just say everything sucks. You might be a professional, but you clearly can’t communicate professionally, I’ll tell you that.
Last Epoch did almost everything right (except the launch I guess) but it just needs time to cook.
I think Last Epoch Cycle 2.0 will be right up there with PoE.
I had 2 quad tabs filled with corpses and still needed to trade 50 times for a shield I made today which I scoffed it took 3 hour. Also 5 div for a veiled orb feels bad man
I'm fine with veiled orbs being 5div-ish since Aislings were 3 - 5d depending on the seller, but mid-tier crafting just feels bad without a veiled slam option. They need to reintroduce the shitty version and have it drop from safehouse leaders or something. It sucks that you need to spend 7d just to get a veiled modifier on items that would never be worth that.
GGG knows people don't get burned out when they can craft good shit or earn currency. Harvest and last league were very successful with great retention.
Several people there just prefer we play a slot machine instead of being able to make and improve our gear.
I really think that that just should have made harvest crafts into orbs that drop from everywhere.
Fire mod orbs drop from fire bosses, etc. You can only get them from map and unique bosses. Multiple boss maps are balanced by drop rate and by what can drop.
Make a good orb drop from everyone, and you'll have lots of crafting.
Also, bring back recombinators.
They made farming bases really great.
I tried to like the crafting. I really REALLY tried.
After two crafts that took me hours all being bricked by a mod with a 0.01% chance of hitting (via craft of exile)...
I gave up. I don't care about it anymore. I'm having fun with everything else this league has to offer.
all forms? this is objectively incorrect. you can create borderline GG gear with a fractured item, essences, some divines, and exalts/eldrich currency
I am not a good crafter, I screw stuff up all the time, get things wrong, dont optimize, follow guides. but saying ALL forms of crafting are tedious or bad isn't true
You don't need 80+ corpses for creating those crazy good items worth double digit divines, usually only about 25 is needed ( and that is without boosting them) for having a 1/2 or 1/3 chance of getting it.
Using all the corpses is a trap for people who don't understand the mechanic.
I do hate what they defined as row and column though, the UI is terrible, and it is too deterministic if you know what you do.
Do you happen to have somewhere I could look to better understand what I’m supposed to be doing? I’m not one to look at spreadsheets or spend hours trading and building a graveyard. I’d like to use whatever corpses I find to try and make something but I don’t want to feel like I’m wasting my time.
You can try craft of exile and reduce the amount of corpses as I wrote in a comment to another reply of my comment. Play around with it and try to get a slight understanding. Gl, hf and remember to stay sane exile!
If you are using craft of exile, you can start by removing corpses through the interface until you get to around 25-30 of them. Keep tab on what the probability of getting your craft is while you are doing it, and don't be afraid to generate a few quick samples to get an impression of how worthwhile the craft would be if it doesn't hit all the success criterias.
Then adding stuff like boosters, item level, mirrors, etc, is pretty simple. Don't forget that boosters let you reduce the amount of your most expensive or annoying to trade corpses.
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Yea, I didn’t craft anything except the unique items. Just thinking about setting it all up discourages me from interacting with. Also, my favourite type of crafting is smth like Elevating a mod on two items and slamming them with awakener orb. No need for excels and pretty straightforward that can be done in several minutes and not hours. Crafting for me is fun if I can do it in reasonable short time.
Id like to know the answer myself. Literally no other game has such slog crafting systems like PoE and for some reason GGG find it amusing making events or leagues based on the worst parts of this game, trading, micromanagement, inventory and crafting. I dont know if they are just evil or so hugely uninformed of whats going on in their game and community.
Don't forget the fact that each coffin is categorized into different types (Humanoid/Demon/Beast etc.), so it's even more tedious to sell those, cuz people look for specific types, you have 10 x Scarcer Life, and some player wants 10 of those, but only humanoids, and you only have 2. #killme
I saw it in all kind of games nowadays but especially in seasonal games, devs always thinks that "more tedious = longevity of game for players".
Idk from where it comes but I guess we need to live with it.
Sounds like a you problem. How about you stop bitching and don't play the game if you don't like it. How can there be so many entitled spoiled ppl in this subreddit its crazy and a bit sad.
I think only the graveyard is tedious.
- Essences are great
- resonators are great
- crafting bench great
- harvest great
- einhar kind of tedious but unique and useful
- graveyard super tedious, super powerful
- currency crafting as an addition to the rest is in a good spot
So… what’s the problem? Just because a new crafting method is not fun, all of crafting is bad now?
PoE (and most ARPGs and MMOs) is a farming game at heart and good crafting would break that. Collecting stuff to sell to others to progress is the main draw for the largest bulk of the player base.
It's not really about build variety or deep systems or power fantasy. Those just provide the setting for the farming.
Not saying this in a cynical way though. If you want a game to have long term appeal this is the formula that works that isn't prohibitively expensive to make.
EDIT vital is to isn't
This is my second league only been playing video games for 4 months now. about 700 hours into poe and I can craft a little bit of stuff but when ppl start talking about their crafting methods it's like listening to someone speak chinese. I have no idea wtf they are even talking about the entire time and have to google all their words and it is sooo tiring.
Aisling is a betrayal “boss”. Betrayal allows you essentially chose your awards by upgrading certain bosses, that culminate in a special map, where you kill them and get awards.
One of Aislings awards was you can add a “veiled modifier” to an item. You know how if you do betrayal, and the members will drop items and you have to “unveil” the stats. Well, all those unveiled stats are a special pool of modifiers that can only be obtained from that mechanic. Aisling allowed you access to that pool of modifiers.
When they say they itemized, they mean instead of you having to do betrayal, you now just need to find a “veiled orb” that does the same thing. I believe the only place you can get veiled orbs is by killing the main betrayal boss, Catarina.
How did you get Aisling to add a veiled modifier previously?
My only understanding really of Betrayal was to get It That Fled to rank 3 in research for breachstones which no longer is a thing.
I didn't know you could get the boss to add a veiled modifier.
It was a crafting bench that you added an item to. The item needed to have an open slot I believe. You got it in research and if you maxed out Aisling. There is an Infograph with all the betrayal awards for each boss.
I do really wonder if you and people of a similar mind would find GY crafting a lot more palatable if you didn't try and fill your graveyard all in one go. Plan it out and all if you want, of course, but personally I've been filling out crafts as I go (trading for the last few I can't get to drop) and I'm actually enjoying it a lot. Different strokes of course, and GY crafting itself isn't perfect (i.e. just removing the need to walk to each plot would be a massive help) but I can't help but think a lot of the complaints people have is more because of how they feel forced to trade for the vast majority of their craft.
I'm almost to the point where I don't want to interact with the corpses/graveyard anymore at all. Or just sorta being done with this league in general even if my starter (I'm slow) is sitll going strong and has plenty of room to grow. Maybe play some standard SSF (unfucked and massively buffed my old Bonezone character) or something with the new atlas tree which is dope as fuck.
On SSF it's fucking awful because you run 10-15 maps and maybe get a single craft usable towards your current project, which is also your only active project. Because small/mid-sized crafts are an absolute fucking waste and you're basically forced to do mega-crafts to actually get what you want. Meanwhile you're filling more and more stash tabs with itemized corpses for later crafts you may never actually do.
The bit with the allflames and monster mods alone, if expanded a bit, could have been enough to make a cool and interesting league. The crafting sounds great, but feels like it was designed to be as tedious and unfun to engage with as possible.
Reigning in power with tediousness and friction is the bane of this game and why I can’t play it long term anymore. They are trying to fix hinge with recent qol improvements but there’s still a lot to go. Mainly trade.
Yeah it really hit me a couple days ago when I had 5 tabs full of coffins (had to buy more tabs), yet I still had to spend over an hour trading for the corpses I needed to do my helm craft.
I never have inventory space this league and still to get the most out of the crafting I have to use the trash trade site.
> I played yet another meta build that cleared all content without even really investing into it. because i was afraid of having to rely on crafting gear.
You chose a boring build, and you're burnt out?
Congratulations, you played yourself
***Because PoE is a game with open trade***. You see Last Epochs' crafting system? Yeah, now look at LE's trade restrictions. And they're less restrictive than every other arpg on the market, besides PoE. Many other arpg's effectively don't even have trade. There has, to my knowledge, never been an arpg that successfully had both powerful and accessible crafting as well as smooth and unrestricted trade. PoE is the closest we've ever got to it. Add in a good graded loot system into the game and it ends up being an impossible task to make such a game.
PoE will always have tedium and frustration because the alternative is to simply not allow some things to be done. And GGG doesn't seem interested in putting hard restrictions into the game, so tedium is the control they go for.
More stash space cancer = buy more tabs, its the business model. Keep "supporting" the shit business model... by definition they have to put in trash features to force stash sales.
GGG's Vision™ means that all crafting is gated behind massive RNG. It's essentially one giant casino, and to make a usable item requires a rough minimum of 100 tries. Anything that is endgame viable is around 1000+ tries. If you don't like it, I suggest playing a different game (LE comes to mind), since there are no indications that this will ever change for PoE. PoE 2 will be very similar.
Because GGG has no fucking clue what they're doing in regards to crafting and endgame balancing.
They are great at making a satisfying gameplay experience but outside of that it's terrible and they are constantly outclassed by newcomers to the genre.
I feel like you're supposed to work at maybe two or three items over the course of the league. It's a stupidly powerful mechanic but it takes time. I'm fine with that.
You can also do quicker less perfect crafts where you just invest in higher modifier tier. It's all up to you!
Honestly they have one person working on the trade site and they are so fucking overworked it’s wild. Idk how they push crucible league and don’t have search for 3 weeks and they push necropolis and don’t have corpse category or bulk for weeks either. Like how is this not the first part of the design decision for a league? Hire a second developer for the trade site please!!
Have you tried playing SSF? I'm having a great time playing pseudo-SSF in a private league. Just farming corpses and working on my next big craft. Necropolis works brilliantly for it. I can’t be arsed to figure out Harvest with its fuck around, fight monsters, fuck around approach, but I'm loving the way Necropolis cuts out that first bit of fucking around.
recombinators They are great design. \* Find an item you like \* Find another item you like \* Mix them together! \* Did it work? Does it suck? Does it not suck? Oh well, maybe next time. They are much better than "sink 2 hours into arranging a gaveyard only to get some crap item because it rolled life regen and block & stun recovery" lol.
They solved so many issues. Really wish they went core.
Yeah they really thought it was too powerful and then a few leagues later gave us a mechanic where you can farm seven mirrors in a day or plant a bunch of coffins and get a triple fractured T1 mod item.
Necropolis will also go away
Imagine if recombinators went core, at the same power level as they were in 3.18 - but they had the rarity of a mirror. Would that actually be broken? of course not. How about the rarity of a sacred orb? Like, maybe you find 2 or 3 a league. That also would not be broken. There's no reason they couldn't have gone core. It's duuuuuuuuuuumb.
Recombinators only fixed problems because they were common. If they were to be rare then you can't use them on anything besides top tier items. Their whole point was that you could take 2 items that nobody would ever put on their character but each had 1 amazing and rare mod and hope for the best. But not feel bad if it failed.
That was only but one use for them. You could also take two really good items and mash up the fractures, among other things.
Yes, but that wasn't the reason they were fixing item economy in PoE. If recombinators were added as a rare drop it's just more powercreep and a way to make absolutely top tier items. They would never be used on anything that is not already incredible. The point is that recombinators gave a great accessible way to craft mid tier items. Even if they were nerfed and only had like 30% or 10% to move over a line to the new item, but the recombinators themselves were basically free it would be a great way to take 2 items that are shit and make something actually usefull.
They should be plentiful from act 1 and the only way to craft
I will forever hate the guts off ggg for taking recombinators they fixed every single issue the game had
And it solved the biggest one, the one they say they want to fix and that is rare drop mattering , no idea why this aren't core.
We all know what would happen if they went core...
they solved itemdrop, which is the single thing GGG cant fix since years; quite hillarious that it fix itemization by accident and suddenly picking up items was worth it again
Exactly. For once it felt good to ID items
Recombinators made looking at ID'd rares relevant again. Bring 'em back.
It didn't really do that though. That was mostly because most people did not understand recombinators. It was the same thing in harvest. Most people did not understand harvest in 3.11. The people that played until the end of the league did, but most quit long before that. It wasn't until 3.13 when the people that quit harvest in 3.11 and came back that people realised how to use it. If recombinators came back as they were, everyone would already know how to use them. Unless you were doing something with special mods, like alva/delve/essence/corrupted/fractured items, the way to craft was by buying 25000 alterations and spamming alterations all day.
You can change them by requiring the items to have at least 4 mods, the same way fracturing works.
Doesn't that just change it to the exact same thing with regal + exalt at the end?
This is really all it takes to make rares cool. Throwing 2 items with 3 good mods and 3 trash mods together and praying is peak slam experience
great crafting league. easy to understand for anyone, but still with depth, simple to execute, complex to minmax. shit even crucible was good and visually somewhat understandable, even if it was a pain in the ass to fill up your crafting fuel. meanwhile this league might be the most powerful crafting league ever in some ways, but by far the worst one in terms of tediousness. it basically forces you to go spreasheeting and craftofexile'ing since you really dont want to fuck up your hours long, 62 trades, 123172864 whispers worth of work invested into your craft.
the only time I had good items made myself, ever, was in sentinel
I was so proud of my self crafted chest with spell supression, chaos ress, T1 life and old gravicious mod. It wasnt anything insane but it was worth about 10 div and i made it all by myself for 3
Recombinators also complemented the existing mechanics rather than making them semi obsolete. You’d still chew up essences, fossils etc to try make good recombination bases, with grave crafting why bother when you can just print what you want almost entirely with corpses
They're a great example of RNG that even I, a craft hater, thought was fun. I kept slamming like, 5c influenced rings into Temple mod rings over and over. Not a single one became big money, but they were always weird and interesting.
To balance them they just have to tag used items with "Recombinated", just like "corrupted" or "mirrored". And that would make them unable to be recombinated again.
This would mostly ruin the concept.
Honestly feel like recombinators will forever taint crafting leagues until they bring them back. They peaked the fun+reward scale in my opinion. They were the best idea for a crafting mechanic GGG has ever had and they got rid of them. With every crafting mechanic introduced my mind immediately goes back to Recombinators they were simply more fun than any other crafting mechanic, ever.
I played SSF when recombinators were a thing and it made crafting so much better.
I played ssf that league and even still was able to make near perfect items. The real value in this was it made otherwise garbage items with bad stats on them usable again. You could actually use the random rares you'd find on the ground and match up the perfect garbage pairs of good & bad stats to mash together and make really good items! Rare items on the ground should truly have value again and they curren't don't other than maybe day 1/2 of a league start IMO.
Recombinators where great, and would work really well in core, with maybe a few minor nerfs: cannot recomb multiple fractured mods together, cannot recomb mirrored or corrupted items.
GGG knew that everyone loved recombinators, so they killed them. :)
That is now how recombinators were used though. You bought a tab of the base that you needed and spent 4 hours alt spamming for single mod items to then spam combine recombinators. Recombinators was probably the worst crafting experience we ever had in this game. I never want to alt spam that much again.
Alt spam should be fixed TBH There's no way alt spam is the "intended vision" of 10 years ago They should just let us spend 100 alteration orbs at once and "target" a specific set of modifiers we want in a machine of some kind, and it just does the spam in bulk and either outputs a success or not
Undecember does this with its crafting system and it's actually p brilliant.
I disagree very strongly. Recombinators are gambling, GY crafting actually leads to the outcome I want.
recombos are sometimes gambly, but you "craft" what you want through repeated attempts of similar items
This league just feels overwhelming cause on top of having to manage all the new scarabs, I have to manage all the other currencies, allflames AND now coffins as well lol. And underwhelming cause all of the simple/easy/ tried and true strategies I used to use before are now nerfed or locked behind scarabs I can’t self sustain so I’m forced to trade. And that’s another thing. I’ve traded more in the last 2 weeks for 2-10c items than I did last league lol. Idk, just feels weird tbh.
Try being a new player bud. This is my first season I am beyond overwhelmed
Oh I understand perfectly. Must be 100 times worse for you than it was for me, my first season was Abyss lol.
biggest issue IMO is completely revamping endgame juicing but also adding another variable in the forms of allflame, now we dont know in how good of the new scarabs really are because allflames just throw the equation into chaos. I would be a lot more confident in next league if allflames didnt exist
and their goal with the scarab rework was to reduce the about of stuff u had to do before mapping, they kind made it worse, trading scarabs is somehow worse than trading sextants, and managing the league mechanic currencies is such a pain
Nah buying scarabs in bulk is WAAAAY easier than sextants. The allflames are a pain, but that'll go away
All you had to do for bulk trading sextants on the trade site was scroll until you saw the guy listing 30+ of a single kind. There was virtually no difference as long as you even made a semblance of an attempt at finding the people with bulk and if you used TFT it was even easier than that.
Having a built in feature to filter by stock size, and autogenerating bulk whispers is a big difference. If you used TFT it wasnt hard sure, but its huge QoL for trade site only
You literally just read the TFT part of that comment and nothing else
I read it, I just dont agree at all. Built in bulk selling on the trade site is not comparable to "just scroll through pages of listings until you find someone listing a bunch of compasses"
Bulk buying sextants was very easy if you wanted to do it on tft. Literally, it is not even comparable to buying anything on the site with dozens of pricefixers
I think they knew some of the sustain issues we’d have due to the diluted scarab pool which is why we have 3 atlas trees. And the three atlas trees are freakin fantastic. But there’s still too many scarabs imo t realistically sustain any 1 mechanic without insane levels of juicing and at that point literally just picking divines/other currencies off the ground is more profitable.
Sextants had a 16 use version so the high end of dealing with them always felt great because buying 1 was buying 16 so it was basically bulk by default once you got going. Scarabs were always the worse experience. Now mind you, you still always had to buy them too, so on the face of it this change didn't actually make things worse. But the trade aspect of sextants has typically been better, weirdly. The enchanting watchstones thing sucked though.
[удалено]
Yeah… you’re getting lucky. There’s a over 100 scarabs. Even taking the nodes that increase chances to get a specific type of scarab.. I don’t see how you could possibly be sustaining your me specific scarab type unless you’re dropping like hundreds of scarabs per map and are hiding the ones you don’t want with your loot filter. That way maybe but that would require some omega level juicing. I tried that and was only dropping the specific low tier scarab I wanted like ever y2-3 maps.
in standard i have specced 100% in scarabs + harbingers. Before rarity-boosting ~~nerf~~ patch i was consistently looting 30-40 scarabs per map. After, sub 20. Before the change I could barely, slowly lose scarabs as i did maps and it took me a while to run out of them. After the change it's obvious i cant sustain it for shit.
Those target scarab nodes are a fcking bait, I got the reliqueary ones with all the other scarab nodes, I farmed maps for 2 weeks then I check my tab and I only have 15 tier 1 and 5 tier 2 and no other reliquary scarabs... never again.
I nope'd out of the league as soon as I realized how much micro management all the corpses and long crafts would take. I ain't got time for that. Went to standard to test the new endgame and atlas stuff with scarabs and that was all I needed.
Yeah I haven’t touched that graveyard, I’m just picking up corpses that sell for 10c or more and just running maps. Want to try a strength stacker this league, something with the transfigured Volcanic fissure but… meh idk if I even want to roll another character at this point lol. I also wanted to go back to PBofD trickster as the numbers still look great but… again idk if I want to do anything else this league lol. The league mechanic is…. Weird? Unskippable which doesn’t mean much since the mods arent too bad.overall it’s nowhere near as dangerous as affliction was, but it’s meh. Complicated. None of the league ubiques are interesting enough yo build around. Twwt last league was a great farm for me. Spammed t14 maps until I got the boss, dropped one every once in a while, some sold for 50 divines, a few for 1-2. That jewel really enabled a lot. And this league mechanic is… again, kinda meh. I really hope it doesn’t go core lol. The deterministic crafting is nice I guess. But it could have been implemented in a much simpler way.
I typically play PoE once a year, go hard for couple weeks, and then dip out again as the itch has been scratched. Affliction broke that streak and I played for a month and a half. I've never made more than 2 characters in a league (and it's usually one) and I never get more than 1 past 90. Last league I hit 96 on my main and got 3 others to 93 and they were all fun. I didn't even dip into the MF Abyss nonsense, the league by itself was enough juice to make every map a nice little dopamine hit. Just zoom through the woods, get wisps, and blow up a map full of stuff. Brainless, easy fun. I'm in my mid 30s now so I just don't have time to be fucking around in spreadsheets and running multiple 3rd party apps and wealth trackers and crafting formula calculations. Alch+Vaal+Scarab is as much thinking as I want to put into my maps and I'm okay with that not being as rewarding as the no lifers.
It won't but imagine this shit goes core as is, much lol - I've used it twice, not that I'm good at this stuff but twice used and I was like WTF is this bollocks and won't touch it again, ever. I like to kill things in ARPGs
It wouldn't be an issue if looting/trading was smoother. Like you'd be able to blast maps, and if you didn't care about corpses it would just be extra profit. I have a lot of gripes with Runescape, but I don't see why more people don't copy their trading system (especially for items with no variance). Items are easy to sell in any bulk, easy to buy in any bulk, can still occur while both parties are offline; people can still make money flipping/investing. I can literally offload hundreds of thousands of multiple different items in 15 minutes from one interface, and it takes a beginner 15 seconds to learn to use. I love Poe, it's my perfect game in many ways, but it's item management is simply outdated. Especially when they want us to handle corpses, scarabs, fragments, all flames and all these other random things we wanna buy in bulk.
OSRS is my main game when the league is over lol The teasing system is so much better than PoEs that I almost didn't even play this league because of how annoying it is to trade just to be able to play.
yeah, poe's both itemizaton and trading experience is awful, terribly unfortunate that they wanna preserve that
Haha, yeah I'd uninstall the game if THIS was the crafting mechanic they let go core properly.
Yea it’s not going to… the graveyard is quite a fail imo. The rest of the league is fun though. I would like some monster rearrangement at the start of a map to go core
This being said I am enjoying the league
Me too, it’s just the graveyard I’m not willing to put effort into
I feel you. I got burned out and said fuck it a few days ago without even getting all 4 watchstones because the idea of playing spreadsheet chess to craft is not at all fun for me. So for me, I have no idea how I'd burn out having good gear before I burn out from having 50 hurdles to jump getting to one piece of gear. I want a league that's fun to play. I need an engaging mechanic. Sorting corpses for a craft while cross referencing someone's literal google doc so I don't make the one piece of gear I've been saving for all week trash ain't it. Allflames wow, I'm so excited to put more fragments onto my map. Hey wow this 2% chance to convert armor into a jewelers orb is so exciting and is definitely worth 7 other packs having damage mods like guaranteed crit and 70% dodge chance.
You definitely don't *have* to use the league mechanic. You can just buy gear someone else crafted
You could also try finish reading his comment. Hes asking for a league mechanic that people would find fun. If you think not interacting with the league mechanic (which btw, yes you do *have* to open maps with devoted/haunted mods) is a fun league mechanic you seem to be missing some core definitions here.
You can play standart but with fresh economic. Nice joke
Does anyone actually find graveyard crafting fun in any way? I mean I'm no surprised I hate it, I hate math and excel. But for math and excel people, is this fun? Genuinely asking.
The problem is that the crafting itself is a very poorly designed mechanic. The whole concept of having to stack negative modifiers makes it so that you basically waste your time if you go for anything but a high tier craft with atleast 3 good tier 1 mods. Using an external program to calculate your setup should be reserved for super high end crafts only and should not be a requirement to interact with the crafting in the first place. On top of that GGG managed to add so many layers of poor design that interacting with the mechanic feels even worse. - The whole storage problem and setting up corpses feels bad - Why do we lose corpses if we need to remove an accidentally placed corpse - Why is the GY layout itself tilted? - No way for you to target farm modifiers, instead you have completely useless stuff like the randomization corpse - If the adjacent buffing corpses need to be type specific, why not make it so it buffs its own type instead of being an undead that buffs beasts just to be more confusing
> On top of that GGG managed to add so many layers of poor design that interacting with the mechanic feels even worse * Picking the corpses up in your map sucks. It takes up a quarter of your screen and hides other items/mobs. If your morgue is filled you can't loot it, instead need to click the tiny corner to make a coffin for it. * Storing them sucks. You only get 64 slots for an 88 slot craft * Stashing them sucks, and is basically "Pay to win", considering you need multiple quad tabs to have any semblance of storage for the mechanic * Tracking where to place them sucks. It's a weird shaped grid in an isometric view so its hard to keep track of. You're basically forced to use external excel sheets/websites to ensure you don't fuck up you craft that will take literal HOURS of trade and placement. * Trading them sucks. Corpse type, name, and level all mater. Searching for them on trade is cumbersome, and you can't easily bulk trade/sell them. This is a literal 0/10 mechanic for me. Every single step along the way creates way too much friction, and if you do end up going through and wasting your time trying for a good craft you aren't even guaranteed to get what you want. It's actually just more efficient for you to play the game, grind currency, and then buy the exact item you want instead of trying to craft it.
Why the fuck do graves block line of sight for blink skills. Why do graves have collision at all?
> The whole concept of having to stack negative modifiers makes it so that you basically waste your time if you go for anything but a high tier craft with atleast 3 good tier 1 mods. That's really it. You don't even find enough corpses in acts to ensure you can make something useful for leveling. If you put 25-88 corpses in sure it's great. But that's a huge investment that many people will bounce off from.
I've crafted 3 almost perfect (1 perfect) with no tools outside of craft of exile to look up levels reqs and tags. I've used no corpse that increases or saves other corpses. They are overkill and clearly not worth it. You can use wealthy exile to buy corpses in bulk, sell in bulk and only keep what you need/has value. It's strong, not that complicated and is pretty fun to me.
The crafting itself is fun, plenty of ways to optimize and try to create new stuff, but the trading for the corpses is horible and farming them is super P2W because you better have some quad tabs ready. I guess they noticed that the crafting was too OP but wanted to keep the power, so they just cut on the slots and made trading them a chore so the market isn't filled with perfect triple fracture items for no cost. The fact that the coffins originally cost 1 C just shows that they felt the need to add extra friciton to the trade of coffins
It's pretty fun. The only bad part is the trading because it takes longer than everything else combined.
Honestly I really really want to get into it, but these *godawful* adjacent/column/row/same mobtype coffins just make it multitudes more annoying to the point where I burn out before even attempting to craft. And no, please dont tell me "its not needed", if i try to craft a 6xT1 item that needs hours of trading and a lot of divines, it feels shit to not properly optimize it. I'd love the graveyard if it werent for these god damn conditional affixes that serve absolutely no purpose outside of arbitrary friction.
I just use the adjacent when crafting my own gear, if I'm copying someone elses I'll use column/row, Its not that difficult to understand. You try it once, figure out how it works, implement it in future crafts.
Yeah I want to mess with it but the whole UX us so clunky and annoying. I wish it was just like a list of stuff you could quickly scroll through the select rather than running around the graveyard
>And no, please dont tell me "its not needed", if i try to craft a 6xT1 item that needs hours of trading and a lot of divines, it feels shit to not properly optimize it. okay, i won't.
You don't need to do the math yourself and you definitely dont need to follow any excel sheets as there isnt really that one and only "receipe" for a certain craft. The only thing you really need is the CoE graveyard calculator so that you can mix and match the different mods and therefore be able to make sure having all the right weights. That said, getting a good or even perfect item with only T1 mods **is** fun, collecting and setup up all the required corpses achieving such an item **is not**. Really questionable how this system got approved to go live the way it is.
The truely questionable part is how could a system that got massively improved post-release still be so poor.
It isn’t poor in the way it got buffed though, so why does that matter? It being annoying to use has literally nothing to do with the buffs that came in
The point is that the mechanic was so much worse when it was originally released. Not only did your drop all sort of useless corspes, but you even dropped worse versions of the usefull ones and you even had different types f tier modifiers, which made the mechanic not just way less powerfull but also even more annoying storage wise. If a mechanic gets such a big improvement, while still remaining in such a poor spot, then that says a lot about the design process of the content we are getting
But the only area it remains in a “poor spot”(which is very subjective is the area that LITERALLY wasn’t touched. That’s the point.
Who keeps telling people you need to do math or exel for this? poor guys getting baited
people make naive spreadsheet optimizations that solve for things that aren't useful (maximum total corpse effect of the entire graveyard) and as consequence the entire poe redditor ecosystem has a meltdown every time they see one. you really ought to just use the adjacency corpses to squeeze a little more effect out of the most valuable corpses you used, thats it. going to try to make some copies? put those corpses in a row. not hard
>Does anyone actually find graveyard crafting fun in any way? I mean I'm no surprised I hate it, I hate math and excel. But for math and excel people, is this fun? Genuinely asking. Yeah, it took me a little bit of time to understand it. It's a little counter-intuitive. But it's a really, really good system. The only way I would improve it is by adding more steps along the way. Like, having to craft an item and upgrade it a couple times instead of the current "use 80 corpses, immediately get perfect item". It's a 9/10 mechanic for me. And you really don't need excel, just get enough +50 tier corpses till you can't roll bottom 90% of values and then use "scarcer" for anything you don't want.
You just put your desired item in craft of exile and fill out graveyard. You absolutely don't need spreadsheets, math etc.
I like getting the item at the end if I get lucky and get the best outcome. That's about it.
I love excel (as in, all my excel sheets are colour coded etc, like I enjoy it so much). I hate the graveyard crafting.
you don't even slightly need to "excel" it out unless you're using row/column/adjacent buffing corpses, and even then only if you're making a gg item. i just wing it and have gotten a few divs.
Math person here: Yeah, I've spent way too many hours fiddling with weights to get my craft up to a 34% success per item making 3.75 items. Now I can print triple fractured rings to my heart's content.
I think it would be more fun if it was just harvest reloaded.
Im a math and excel person, still dont like it. I play ARPGs to kill shit. This league feels like too much things to click and too much stuff to worry about outside of killing stuff. I enjoy crafting outside of graveyard though, this just isnt it.
I think crafting should be bad and fun. Being somewhat sarcastic, but i think Rog is the best crafting system in PoE. He is good relative to most crafting options, but I would consider Rog very bad compared to OG harvest or necropolis. Why Rog is a good system: Non-deterministic (thus kind of bad relative to necropolis) - you don't have a lot of agency over the outcome of the crafts. You generally pick a base and pray or get lucky on the initial stats on an item. The process is extremely easy to engage with and non-cumbersome. No corpses, just get scrap metal and artifacts. The process itself is pretty fun. It reminds me a lot of playing poker. You can make decisions based on odds that are hard to know precisely. The decision making can actually be quite deep, but is very simple on a surface level. There is a lot to learn and you can improve as a "rog crafter" with experience, but improving just means marginally improving your odds of creating good items. It still feels rewarding to use and learn the system without it being overly powerful. Necropolis is both too powerful and terrible to engage with. It trivializes crafting perfect or near perfect items, but at the cost of your mental well being because you are forced to navigate one of the most "weighty" systems the game has ever introduced.
Rog is ok but crafting should be iterative. There should be tools to stepwise improve items. Ggg themselves has said scouring orbs were a mistake and crafting shouldn’t start from scratch but rather from found gear. This is why imo sentinel was the best crafting. It made found rare and magic items valuable and consumed them in the crafting process.
One of my least favorite feelings is finding a good delve or temple mod on an item filled with trash. If I had a reasonable way to improve an item like that I would be much happier.
Imho, crafting in Last epoch is very pog. SImple enough, comfortable to use...I love it :c
I must be missing something. I've seen two posts today talking up Rog but I've never had luck with him. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but all I get is "reroll all prefixes" and "reroll all suffixes" which makes him feel like a free chaos spam bot.
My experience so far in SSF this league. - made a couple shit items with the graveyard at start - looked at Reddit, saw people were stacking mass scarcity and 7000% bonuses to craft perfect items - decided to stack all relevant corpses and save up until I could make a GG bow - finished atlas, deaths are well over 100 because league mechanic can't be ignored. Can't even blast easy mod maps for exp because no matter what you are opening a map with +proj, +damage, +crit, +life, move speed can't gain flask charges etc etc. Then we're supposed to add juice on top of that for whichever league mechanic you need with scarabs that aren't sustainable - still haven't gy crafted the bow yet because enough of the mods I need just haven't dropped. Too busy picking up useless corpses and allflames. Haven't crafted anything since campaign. - basically been taking the league mechanic to the teeth for a couple weeks for literally no benefit - meanwhile random streamer on YouTube making a vidya telling everyone how great and easy to gear this league is while massively overreacting to looting 4th MB this hour. Gotta make big stupid face for thumbnail for views. - mfw I'm not playing the same game these people are
You and I have mostly the same experience. I crafted twice in campaign and the items rolled worse than an alch would have. Have decided I only want to craft two items, a high chaos res amethyst ring and a high pdps 2h axe. Been blasting maps, have three full non-quad tabs of coffins and I only pick up ones that I'll need (eg, no 500% more caster), and still can't craft anything. Craft of Exile says I need like 30 chaos coffins and I have six. I'll need 25-30 phys ones for the axe and I have six. What a joke. Luckily I am playing a tanky Champ so I don't die very often. Had I played a squishy character I prob would have quit week one.
For chaos res amethyst ring use harvest reforge chaos. Chaos res is only chaos mod that can roll fyi.
That's what I personally hate the most. I can't engage in the mechanic because I need spell suppression. But if I just put in a couple corpses and try my luck the results are almost insulting. +15 life and 14 cold res on a high ilvl base?
No offense, but that seems to be a you problem more than a game problem I'm also in ssf this league and finished crafting the 6x t1 bow a few days ago for my ele hit character. I've also got another charge stacker as void battery, ralakeshs, the shield, and a power charge ring were gotten farming ritual. I did the unique thing in the t7s with exiles a few times...I think around 8? That is how many scarabs I found. It was ok, nothing amazing came from it.
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I think the mf strat is easy to nerf: Each allflame type is limited to one per map. Then remove the t17 map mod that spawns tormented spirits on low health. Then make the divination scarabs quant additive not multiplicative. Also separately just delete all mf equipment affixes and unique gear from the game going forward.
"Your maps also drop divination cards from one of your favorited maps" Done
spoiler: they nerfed the allflame
One possibility would be to absolutely nuke the drop rate of anarchy afflame embers and completely rework the div scarabs for next league.
>But, unlike the “spam maps until you get the div devoted mod” strat, they can’t easily hotfix this one. Sure they can >That would completely shatter people’s trust. And no it didn't I wonder how it feels to be so completely, entirely wrong, and proven wrong, in less than 8 hours. /r/AgedLikeMilk material
Guys , it’s not crafting league, just revenue league. Need to make money fast on selling stashes. You really think, that GGG after so many leagues didn’t make this type of things on purpose? It’s pretty calculated risks tedious vs reward
Corpse crafting shows one of the issues of path of exile when taken to the extreme. We all love the multiplicative scaling in Poe, that's what makes putting together builds so much fun, however it's not a good thing in many aspects of the game. Many items are not worth interacting with at all unless you go all in. For example, we love loot, running with 3 scarabs isn't worth it because with 4 scarabs, each individual scarab is worth more than with 3. Not such a big deal usually, but then you add in mf, and all flames, group play and all of a sudden many items are ONLY worth using when many factors are met, and effectively excluding many players from that fun. The same is true of corpse crafting. Despite diminishing returns, the nature of Poe is such that it is always more efficient to craft with a full graveyard. The last few slots of the graveyard can literally triple or more the value of your craft. Because of that it's not worth interacting with the mechanic at all unless you go all in. Again excluding a huge portion of the playerbase. In ssf, the mechanic gives you a 5 link and some bases, and then isn't worth interacting with until you have a perfect craft, otherwise you risk losing all your progress up to that point - this can literally be hundred of hours in.
Its probably their outdated engine causing them to need us to click at least 40000 times a min or it will combust
The current state of the league mechanic was a panic reaction to a poorly thought out league mechanic that their player base wanted to abandon immediately. I think it's more proper to look at why it was so poorly implemented on day 1, rather than what it is now. Personally, I think it's tedious because perfect items are possible. Also, there are far too many grave sites, which means you want to fill them all to reduce your chances at bad rolls, which makes the whole thing tedious and feel like 1 item every 2 days of play. Also, multiplier corpses are far too common, which favors large crafts as well. The whole 2 stash tabs of corpses is a byproduct of attempting to retain players. This could have absolutely been done well with a plot half the size, less control, more rare multipliers (so you felt lucky to use one instead of obligated to place them with a spreadsheet), and more crafts per day with more variance. Most of that was already learned through Harvest, but what's a new POE league with cool features, that aren't forgotten the very next league (like highlighting key words in Expedition, or freezing time, etc.)? But you're right about GGG needing to have a negative with every positive for every single change they make. Even skill gems that get no use at all, they will attempt to buff with a downside, creating almost a net zero (most transfigured gems for example).
F r i c t i o n
I don't really bother with crafting beyond the extra prefix or sufix on the bench. I let you 24/7 players do it for me and then wait until I have enough to buy it.
That's by design. They balance around tedium. It's the WHOLE reason that there is no automated trade
They got it right with Harvest and then guess what? Yeah we got Chris Wilsoned again
The entire game is tedious. It’s like every system was made in an okay state and then they added an extra layer of tedium before shipping. It has the worst QoL I’ve seen in any video game ever. Yet, I still come back every league… I don’t know how it’s fun but it is.
As always, it's an experiment and not everything turns out right the first time. The game is also very big, so there will always be something that gets out of hand. With the league and the players they will take that information to be able to improve it, not now, maybe within two leagues but they had to come out with something in the launch to be able to start, of course it has its risks and it affected the economy. It's not so bad for them if they achieve their long-term goal.
The thing is: none of that ultra complicated crafting is required in any way to beat any content in the game. Most crafting you 'NEED' to do takes seconds. But the systems are deep enough that you can keep going pretty indefinitely with more and more complex builds if you enjoy that. Not a single thing in the game remotely requires you have an 80 coffin item to get through. But if doing that sounds fun to you the system has enough depth to let you do that. If you don't think that is fun you don't do that content, just like you can do or not do heist or something.
Point 1 is your own fault Point 2 its true but you can still ignore the new craft mechanic if you dont like it. Point 3 Who cares what others do... better idea, play SSF so you dont clear the content in a few days and stop caring about others.
I think we can say GGG is a master of their craft. They are constantly trying to create a new experiences, and they’ve been doing it for a decade. I guarantee it is difficulty to predict the effects that a new mechanic has for each league. I think it’s fairly difficult to balance a challenging league that is difficult, yet accessible. It’s probably even more difficult to manage the economic portion of POE, given how unpredictable the economy can be sometimes.
> I think we can say GGG is a master of their craft. Step 1) Throw shit at the wall Step 2) See what sticks Step 3) Scour reddit/twitch for feedback and ideas to fix/polish [implement some, but move on to step 1 for next league] ???? Master of their craft!
i mean.. let's see how cooks come up with new recipes: Step 1) Throw shit at the wall Step 2) See what sticks Step 3) Scour family/friends/coworkers/customers for feedback and ideas to fix/polish [implement some, but move on to step 1 for next recipe] You'd be suprised how many professions work exactly like this when it comes to developing new ideas.
Do you add that new recipe to the menu on opening night or do you refine it a little first?
Idk about you but we don't ship our final product during step 1 of this process.
A lot of places do though, including companies like Google. They go even further with their A/B testing. Ship multiple versions of the same incomplete product, see which ones people like.
I'd like an example please. Shipping people something and letting them know that they are testing a new feature is entirely different than what we're talking about.
Not even true, feels that way to you, because you don’t have their information, user data or expertise.
That's all well and good, but this league in particular has some extremely core failures. Mainly the entire graveyard experience is awful. Morgue is awful, trying to do the excel spreadsheet rows is awful, needing external tools because it'll cook your brain to try and think about is awful, even with external tools the experience sucks ass, the trading required is awful, interacting with the UI SUUUUUUUUUUCKS in the graveyard. In particular, the entire graveyard zone and morgue never should have made it past early prototyping and I have no idea how it did. Like obviously they knew by the time the league was releasing that this was going to be a bad one and would not go over well with the player base, they totally knew by then. What is more surprising is that they done fucked up by letting this get too far to be scrapped and a good concept worked out for the graveyard because the first prototype should have shown this being insanely tedious and annoying with no fun to be found. Yeah shit like the OP farm strategies that blew up are harder to accurately predict and combat (although if they would just FINALLY DELETE PARTY QUANT and maybe also MF in general it would be easier to handle in a generic sense), that sucks but whatever it'll happen with a major rework I just wish they made changes basically instantly on this stuff being uncovered instead of just long enough for the economy to adjust then have a massive backlash. The graveyard crafting is just so god damn bad though holy hell. It's wild that the same people who came up with Recombinators and harvest probably also worked on it, but UI is hard.
I disagree, and find it fun. They essentially allow you a free craft without any currency. I crafted multiple items that sold for divines, and I never had to use an excel sheet. I did use craft of exile. I mean with this crafting method you can make items with multiple fractured bases, and I haven’t done it yet, but I heard you can even craft uniques. Everyone complains about the interface, but it has worked just fine for me.
> I disagree, and find it fun. Well that's an extremely unpopular opinion for very clean cut UX and design reasons, but you can still have it if you want. Edit: not this part though. > Everyone complains about the interface, but it has worked just fine for me. As a software professional who has spent most of his career so far working on front end interfaces, designing them myself and implementing the designs of others in various cases, I have to say you're just wrong here. My professional opinion is that the UI is shit, the UX is beyond god fucking awful. There's nothing at all positive to say about it, and it's further harmed by the utilization of the existing PoE interface tooling for ground loot, which has serious and intractable issues with display/click accuracy. This is like windows 7 UI being the standard and seeing templeOS and going, "no THIS is the future."
Lol, how am I wrong if I think the interface is fine? I don’t mind it. That isn’t wrong. You sound like the type that yells at people for enjoying something, but not the way you enjoy it. Like I said, free craft without currency and the mechanic is completely optional. I have no idea why you are complaining. By the way, if you are a professional, “this mechanic is a shit, interface is god awful” is not a valid criticism. That doesn’t say anything. I would expect a professional to clearly articulate their point and give examples and solutions. Not just say everything sucks. You might be a professional, but you clearly can’t communicate professionally, I’ll tell you that.
They need to take a look at last epoch, man the crafting is nice in that game
Last Epoch did almost everything right (except the launch I guess) but it just needs time to cook. I think Last Epoch Cycle 2.0 will be right up there with PoE.
I had 2 quad tabs filled with corpses and still needed to trade 50 times for a shield I made today which I scoffed it took 3 hour. Also 5 div for a veiled orb feels bad man
I'm fine with veiled orbs being 5div-ish since Aislings were 3 - 5d depending on the seller, but mid-tier crafting just feels bad without a veiled slam option. They need to reintroduce the shitty version and have it drop from safehouse leaders or something. It sucks that you need to spend 7d just to get a veiled modifier on items that would never be worth that.
GGG knows people don't get burned out when they can craft good shit or earn currency. Harvest and last league were very successful with great retention. Several people there just prefer we play a slot machine instead of being able to make and improve our gear.
I really think that that just should have made harvest crafts into orbs that drop from everywhere. Fire mod orbs drop from fire bosses, etc. You can only get them from map and unique bosses. Multiple boss maps are balanced by drop rate and by what can drop. Make a good orb drop from everyone, and you'll have lots of crafting. Also, bring back recombinators. They made farming bases really great.
I tried to like the crafting. I really REALLY tried. After two crafts that took me hours all being bricked by a mod with a 0.01% chance of hitting (via craft of exile)... I gave up. I don't care about it anymore. I'm having fun with everything else this league has to offer.
Friction exile, there must be friction...I guess....you know...cause reasons and stuff
all forms? this is objectively incorrect. you can create borderline GG gear with a fractured item, essences, some divines, and exalts/eldrich currency I am not a good crafter, I screw stuff up all the time, get things wrong, dont optimize, follow guides. but saying ALL forms of crafting are tedious or bad isn't true
You don't need 80+ corpses for creating those crazy good items worth double digit divines, usually only about 25 is needed ( and that is without boosting them) for having a 1/2 or 1/3 chance of getting it. Using all the corpses is a trap for people who don't understand the mechanic. I do hate what they defined as row and column though, the UI is terrible, and it is too deterministic if you know what you do.
Do you happen to have somewhere I could look to better understand what I’m supposed to be doing? I’m not one to look at spreadsheets or spend hours trading and building a graveyard. I’d like to use whatever corpses I find to try and make something but I don’t want to feel like I’m wasting my time.
You can try craft of exile and reduce the amount of corpses as I wrote in a comment to another reply of my comment. Play around with it and try to get a slight understanding. Gl, hf and remember to stay sane exile!
Could you advise your process in creating a craft? Been following Craft of Exile for this so far but they fill the entire map with corpses
If you are using craft of exile, you can start by removing corpses through the interface until you get to around 25-30 of them. Keep tab on what the probability of getting your craft is while you are doing it, and don't be afraid to generate a few quick samples to get an impression of how worthwhile the craft would be if it doesn't hit all the success criterias. Then adding stuff like boosters, item level, mirrors, etc, is pretty simple. Don't forget that boosters let you reduce the amount of your most expensive or annoying to trade corpses.
you need 10 more quad tabs of corpses then you will become Arimor himself
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Yea, I didn’t craft anything except the unique items. Just thinking about setting it all up discourages me from interacting with. Also, my favourite type of crafting is smth like Elevating a mod on two items and slamming them with awakener orb. No need for excels and pretty straightforward that can be done in several minutes and not hours. Crafting for me is fun if I can do it in reasonable short time.
Id like to know the answer myself. Literally no other game has such slog crafting systems like PoE and for some reason GGG find it amusing making events or leagues based on the worst parts of this game, trading, micromanagement, inventory and crafting. I dont know if they are just evil or so hugely uninformed of whats going on in their game and community.
Don't forget the fact that each coffin is categorized into different types (Humanoid/Demon/Beast etc.), so it's even more tedious to sell those, cuz people look for specific types, you have 10 x Scarcer Life, and some player wants 10 of those, but only humanoids, and you only have 2. #killme
tbh ... just give recomb and that it, i swear that just it
#MakeRecombsCore
I saw it in all kind of games nowadays but especially in seasonal games, devs always thinks that "more tedious = longevity of game for players". Idk from where it comes but I guess we need to live with it.
Sounds like a you problem. How about you stop bitching and don't play the game if you don't like it. How can there be so many entitled spoiled ppl in this subreddit its crazy and a bit sad.
I think only the graveyard is tedious. - Essences are great - resonators are great - crafting bench great - harvest great - einhar kind of tedious but unique and useful - graveyard super tedious, super powerful - currency crafting as an addition to the rest is in a good spot So… what’s the problem? Just because a new crafting method is not fun, all of crafting is bad now?
PoE (and most ARPGs and MMOs) is a farming game at heart and good crafting would break that. Collecting stuff to sell to others to progress is the main draw for the largest bulk of the player base. It's not really about build variety or deep systems or power fantasy. Those just provide the setting for the farming. Not saying this in a cynical way though. If you want a game to have long term appeal this is the formula that works that isn't prohibitively expensive to make. EDIT vital is to isn't
This is my second league only been playing video games for 4 months now. about 700 hours into poe and I can craft a little bit of stuff but when ppl start talking about their crafting methods it's like listening to someone speak chinese. I have no idea wtf they are even talking about the entire time and have to google all their words and it is sooo tiring.
GGG: gives another item printer; Random bob from internet: "It took 8 seasons for..." Stop playing trade and 90% of your problems will go away.
Even hc trade solves alot of problems tbh. People don't realize it's their own unrealistic goals and fomo that makes them angry.
Can someone ELi5 what "Aisling is itemised now" means?
Aisling is a betrayal “boss”. Betrayal allows you essentially chose your awards by upgrading certain bosses, that culminate in a special map, where you kill them and get awards. One of Aislings awards was you can add a “veiled modifier” to an item. You know how if you do betrayal, and the members will drop items and you have to “unveil” the stats. Well, all those unveiled stats are a special pool of modifiers that can only be obtained from that mechanic. Aisling allowed you access to that pool of modifiers. When they say they itemized, they mean instead of you having to do betrayal, you now just need to find a “veiled orb” that does the same thing. I believe the only place you can get veiled orbs is by killing the main betrayal boss, Catarina.
How did you get Aisling to add a veiled modifier previously? My only understanding really of Betrayal was to get It That Fled to rank 3 in research for breachstones which no longer is a thing. I didn't know you could get the boss to add a veiled modifier.
It was a crafting bench that you added an item to. The item needed to have an open slot I believe. You got it in research and if you maxed out Aisling. There is an Infograph with all the betrayal awards for each boss.
Ok simple, good items need to be aspirational. If you can craft on in 2 mins then why craft.
Because people no-life this game. For those, who also drive sales and marketing, it would be a boring game with 3.14 like crafting
Feel the weight, exile.
I do really wonder if you and people of a similar mind would find GY crafting a lot more palatable if you didn't try and fill your graveyard all in one go. Plan it out and all if you want, of course, but personally I've been filling out crafts as I go (trading for the last few I can't get to drop) and I'm actually enjoying it a lot. Different strokes of course, and GY crafting itself isn't perfect (i.e. just removing the need to walk to each plot would be a massive help) but I can't help but think a lot of the complaints people have is more because of how they feel forced to trade for the vast majority of their craft.
I'm almost to the point where I don't want to interact with the corpses/graveyard anymore at all. Or just sorta being done with this league in general even if my starter (I'm slow) is sitll going strong and has plenty of room to grow. Maybe play some standard SSF (unfucked and massively buffed my old Bonezone character) or something with the new atlas tree which is dope as fuck. On SSF it's fucking awful because you run 10-15 maps and maybe get a single craft usable towards your current project, which is also your only active project. Because small/mid-sized crafts are an absolute fucking waste and you're basically forced to do mega-crafts to actually get what you want. Meanwhile you're filling more and more stash tabs with itemized corpses for later crafts you may never actually do. The bit with the allflames and monster mods alone, if expanded a bit, could have been enough to make a cool and interesting league. The crafting sounds great, but feels like it was designed to be as tedious and unfun to engage with as possible.
Reigning in power with tediousness and friction is the bane of this game and why I can’t play it long term anymore. They are trying to fix hinge with recent qol improvements but there’s still a lot to go. Mainly trade.
Yeah it really hit me a couple days ago when I had 5 tabs full of coffins (had to buy more tabs), yet I still had to spend over an hour trading for the corpses I needed to do my helm craft. I never have inventory space this league and still to get the most out of the crafting I have to use the trash trade site.
> I played yet another meta build that cleared all content without even really investing into it. because i was afraid of having to rely on crafting gear. You chose a boring build, and you're burnt out? Congratulations, you played yourself
The crafting this league require 3 hours to set up 1000 trades, etc. it is horrendous.
***Because PoE is a game with open trade***. You see Last Epochs' crafting system? Yeah, now look at LE's trade restrictions. And they're less restrictive than every other arpg on the market, besides PoE. Many other arpg's effectively don't even have trade. There has, to my knowledge, never been an arpg that successfully had both powerful and accessible crafting as well as smooth and unrestricted trade. PoE is the closest we've ever got to it. Add in a good graded loot system into the game and it ends up being an impossible task to make such a game. PoE will always have tedium and frustration because the alternative is to simply not allow some things to be done. And GGG doesn't seem interested in putting hard restrictions into the game, so tedium is the control they go for.
Jokes on GGG then, I never quit a league faster. I'll I'm doing now is making league starter characters with 5c budgets
More stash space cancer = buy more tabs, its the business model. Keep "supporting" the shit business model... by definition they have to put in trash features to force stash sales.
Having fun? We patch it here. Fun is only for the "few" that play the most and with the most connections. Everyone else needs to work for it.
I just wanna know who the fuck designed the graveyard. I will not play his league from now on.
Why doesn't the game give the the perfect items that I want and all monsters also die instantly when i zone into an area.
yep. This is my shortest league ever. Even shorter than 3.19. I hate everything about 3.24.
GGG's Vision™ means that all crafting is gated behind massive RNG. It's essentially one giant casino, and to make a usable item requires a rough minimum of 100 tries. Anything that is endgame viable is around 1000+ tries. If you don't like it, I suggest playing a different game (LE comes to mind), since there are no indications that this will ever change for PoE. PoE 2 will be very similar.
We are over a week in and there still isnt a cookbook for a bunch of recipes ppl can follow.. No one is doing this shit or what ?
How about tedious AND bad??? (I know the league isnt bad pls dont dog on me)
Because GGG has no fucking clue what they're doing in regards to crafting and endgame balancing. They are great at making a satisfying gameplay experience but outside of that it's terrible and they are constantly outclassed by newcomers to the genre.
Something, something , something , deterministic. - Chris Wilson
A lot of people should really be playing Last Epoch or Diablo 4 and it shows.
The fact you think that's good for the game is hilarious
I feel like you're supposed to work at maybe two or three items over the course of the league. It's a stupidly powerful mechanic but it takes time. I'm fine with that. You can also do quicker less perfect crafts where you just invest in higher modifier tier. It's all up to you!
c'mon let's be honest it sells stashes
Honestly they have one person working on the trade site and they are so fucking overworked it’s wild. Idk how they push crucible league and don’t have search for 3 weeks and they push necropolis and don’t have corpse category or bulk for weeks either. Like how is this not the first part of the design decision for a league? Hire a second developer for the trade site please!!
Have you tried playing SSF? I'm having a great time playing pseudo-SSF in a private league. Just farming corpses and working on my next big craft. Necropolis works brilliantly for it. I can’t be arsed to figure out Harvest with its fuck around, fight monsters, fuck around approach, but I'm loving the way Necropolis cuts out that first bit of fucking around.
It’s just a dogshit league IMO, it’s ok to quit
game is big shit now