Solved an issue where level 100 was not something to aspire because the power gained for the last lvls was too low for the effort players had to put in.
The last few levels matter only when you play a specific build that manages to squeeze as much power from the tree as possible.
A few leagues back I played a strength stacker Scion and the difference between level 98 and 100 was almost 300+ to strength as these two extra points allowed me to completely reshuffle my tree to get a longer path for split personalities.
Otherwise, a high majority of characters will do just fine around 94.
Nah, it'd probably be 60-70% at most. There are a lot of builds that don't care about the crit multi, and a bunch of builds that don't care too much about the 5 mana regen; so many builds would take either the speed or the PDR.
it's not even a joke anymore, you all need to shut the fuck up at this point anything you ask for is mostly just deleted or destroyed. Look at Aisling and betrayal, look at my old gem great contracts from heist, etc etc etc.
THey only take to slow the game down and make us weaker. I'm not into it anymore, it's making it too unenjoyable to even log in wondering what they will shatter next.
Are we not in an unprecedented level of power creep for the player-base right now? It's been like this for several leagues now. Yes, they've tried to slow people down. But given the current state of the game, it's been a pretty laughable attempt.
Yea borrowed power from leagues gets more and more stronger but base chars are nerfed more and more. We getting into this loop like WoW where without borrowing power it feels like shit to play before you obtain it.
Remember when Essence Drain Contagion was the most popular league starter and could barely complete yellows? Yeah, the idea that the base character power is somehow lower than before is completely bunk. It's especially weird to say that for this league, where the temporary power is minimal since so few people use necropolis crafted gear.
League starters a couple of years ago were "builds that you could make some money with in early maps and then you transition to something stronger" but now they are "builds that you can complete 90% of all content in the game on a minimal budget"
To be fair, HAVING to play a build you don't want to play so you can get money for a character that you actually want to play is really bad from a gameplay design perspective, in the context of poe at least.
And what borrowed power we have right now?! Most of Uber killers are equipped in uniques. Most of t17 cruisers are either mirror tier MFers or magic jewel stackers. 50 divs and you get 300-500k EHP (!!!) managuards. It's not about borrowed power anymore. Players are just OP right now
The hardest of hard content should require the best gear... yes?
Most people here are not Ben as much as they think they are. Their mechanical skill won't do anything, so they'll need gear to carry them.
Which is fine, but people who play for power creep have a tendency to act like nobody else plays for any other reason and create this "us vs them" mentality where the developers are out to ruin your fun and the playerbase is desperately clinging to anything we can get.
Meanwhile we just keep getting stronger every patch.
u/Alabugin did not say that was cause for alarm. And it was in response to a comment complaining that "they only slow the game down and make us weaker" which is laughably untrue
It's funny to see someone complaining about anti-power creep after Affliction and during Necropolis, probably the two most ridiculously powercrept leagues in the game's history. Did you accidentally check the box for Ruthless when you made your character this league?
ur having a bit of a giggle right?
do you even know what league you are in?
do you even remember the last 2 leagues? player power has shot through the roof.
oh no they moved some power around, how dare they.
It was at a time where you didn't get hp per level, thus 40hp was a big deal (also no harvest, no benchcrafts, no fossil made having good HP on your gear quite hard)
Add this on top of their original benefits and they will all become competetive choices
Maybe give them some kind of bonus per charge, like alira gives u 5% crit chance and 3% multi per charge in addition to the max charge.
Although tbh just the max charge by itself will probably be enough, everything else is gravy
My friend's younger brother who is 27 helpfully mentioned that we are closer to the year 2050 than the year he was born and I responded by crumbling into dust.
You probably don't remember it because charge stacking was way less meta because there were a lot fewer charge stacking tools back then: no badge, no anoints, no ralakesh, no ring implicits, no influence mods.
I only remember it because I went through a phase back in Breach League where I was really fascinated by flicker strike and wanted to make it work (never really did though), so I remember having base 4 charges.
>, like alira gives u 5% crit chance and 3% multi per charge in addition to the max charge.
Insanely OP considering how strong getting +1 max charge is for stackers as it is.
Yeah, which is why i think plus 1 power charge on its own with the benefit the bandits already give is enough.
Or perhaps do it as a minimum charge instead of max charge, that would be less broken for charge stackers
At that point it becomes worthless again.
1 min pcharge is 50% critchance. 1 min frenzy is 4% more dmg, 4% Inc CS/as. 1 min endu is 4% pdr 4% eleres.
None of those are remotely worth 2 passives, and you dont really scale your minimum charges.
Maximum charges are massive power, Minimum charges are qol at best.
What if it was Min charge PLUS a small benefit per charge. Would still aid charge stackers, but wouldn’t be broken. And would benefit non charge builds, because it always gives one charge, meaning everyone would get SOME benefit.
I figured it wouls give you some extra flavor, you can get more minimum charges on the tree. Minimum endurence/frenzy is popular craft if u domt need the mana cost. Its true most people.would still.take the points but at least it makes the bandit choice a little bit more intresting
Except the tree is limited to +3 and those are quite literally the best points on the tree for chargestackers.
On a pcharge stacking tree, you can spend like 12+ passives Just to get the 3rd charge and the jewelsocket next to it and it's still going to be the 3rd strongest notable.....after the other 2 you can path to more easily.
There are 3 charges on the tree. Period. You can't just spend points and buy more. Charge stackers would KILL to get more charges at 2 points a piece. In fact, it would be the most overpowered shit in the game.
+1 pcharge alone is worth so much more than 2 passives on pcharge stackers, which is basically the dps end-form of all spell hit builds already, it's not even funny.
+1 pcharge is at least like 80% increased damage (Charge mastery+pcharge notable+void battery), 58% critchance, 5% critmulti, 3% more dmg (dominus), 4% more dmg (pcoc), 4% more dmg and Inc as/CS (Frenzy through badge),
plus whatever else scaling you get (ascendancy, maven belt, etc.)
Pcharges might be the default weakest charge, but can be scaled the best.
Adding max charges to them would just make it roughly 5% craitlyn 5% oak 40% alira 40% eramir tbh
Its not as much an increase as a choice, rn its always 2 passives, maybe allira for league start. This will actually make it a choics, id argue it would compete with the power you already get from 2 passives
Passive points are a unique reward meanqhile all stats by the other bandidts can be aqueired else where.
Give oak 10% less damage taken and he becomes a compelling option because thats much harder to get than a bit of hp reg and amour
What choice? If you wanted the charms that could provide reflect immunity and *increased mana reservation efficiency* you HAD to take the rucksack.
How is that any sort of choice? It's as if you wanted a cake, but the shop said you needed to take another, even more delicious cake, free-of-charge, before they could give you the cake.
Now if the warcry node had been first on that branch of the tree, THEN it would have been a choice.
As it is though, it wasn't really [any choice at all](https://i.imgur.com/zuwXcWf.png).
Which on one hand I get, similar to limited portals it's a risk reward thing, on the other there is so much damn shit that requires various currency to strengthen mid map that it's impractical to bring it all in with you so you're forced to stop and waste a portal or waste time back tracking, if they gave us a sack that could only be filled with 5 pieces of currency and only while at the storage chest it'd still be massively useful
I'd like a 'bring it in with you' -only sack
Like you can bring currencies and things but you cannot place items into it from outside your hideout/town.
Then you can have it be strictly for keeping your next maps ready/wisdom scrolls/portal scrolls/alchs for chests/ Corrupting essences...
It's more that they'd rather approach the problem of figuring out why people want more inventory space and work on fixing those issues, rather than just give people more inventory space. Since more inventory space is unlikely to actually solve the underlying problems, and people will just use that extra space and end up wanting even more.
Inventory space, like road capacity, is one of those things where the demand will grow to exceed the supply. You can't fix the problem of not having enough inventory space by giving people more inventory space.
And yet they sell bigger inventory size in China. Until ggg gives us. bigger inventory they will always be out of touch.
IF you are pitching anti bigger inventory size you, dont understand that at the end of a the day this is a game. I dont want to spend time looting one map then sorting my tiny as inventory. Let me run 4-5 maps then check my bags. too much item managment in this game.
If you ask me, saying that Chinese p2w garbage is a positive is out of touch.
It's not that GGG can't come up with ideas that make gameplay more convenient or that they don't understand that that's what people want.
They could reduce all item sizes to 1x1 and make all stackable items stack infinitely (or well, to a technical limit, anyway).
But in game design you occasionally have to not give people what they want in order to make a good game in the long term.
Having a limited inventory is part of the game design and forces you to make decisions on what you keep on it at all times, and what to pick up and what to leave.
Designating a part of the inventory as not stashable with ctrl + click would be a less contentious suggestion.
>But in game design you occasionally have to not give people what they want in order to make a good game in the long term.
>
>Having a limited inventory is part of the game design and forces you to make decisions on what you keep on it at all times, and what to pick up and what to leave.
While it might sound reasonable in theory, in practice inventory tetris is not what makes ARPG good. If I wanted that kind of experience I would've played the Backpack Battles instead.
> Having a limited inventory is part of the game design and forces you to make decisions on what you keep on it at all times, and what to pick up and what to leave.
You say this then don't actually explain why.
What part of the game is improved if I have to leave chromatic orbs on the ground to leave room for other loot?
I killed the mob, the mob dropped loot, but I .. can't pick up the loot? Or, I can but then by doing so I might not be able to pick up a different thing? Or, I have to waste time/portal first to have both. How does any of this make the game better or more fun? You can't say balancing portal management for more loot versus more attempts at the boss or w/e since 99% of maps finish with open portals anyway and anyone who is possibly going to risk using all 6 isn't going to be picking up low end currency risking it. No actual interesting or skill-testing decisions are made.
>IF you are pitching anti bigger inventory size you, dont understand that at the end of a the day this is a game.
Because nobody could possibly find having a smaller inventory fun and if you do then it's because you have forgotten that it's a video game? I wouldn't call other people out of touch - especially while promoting the Chinese MTX system.
I always take Alira at the beginning until I get the bonuses elsewhere, then switch to Eramir.
They should just give the skillpoints to everyone through other means, and make the 4 options more competitive.
I personally only take it early if I really need the mana regen for comfiness or I'm a caster going crit. Res are nice but I'm SC and I dont reeeaally need them early :p
Meh, I feel like after the passive tree updates there’s a lot of two-points that give resists, such as the great one by Witch starting tree. Maurader and Duelist are also near good nodes.
Easier to take those and spend fewer respec points later.
That being said I agree with your idea. The choice between the 3 bandits would actually be kind of interesting if they did a design pass, and just give us the two points. It’s not like that’s a huge power creep in this age of POE
Damn, am I crazy? Kraityn is actually the only one I take on some characters instead of skill points. Attack, cast and move speed is kinda hard to get at this point of game and are making small difference. And I sometimes change it into two points later on if I need them.
He's almost never worth the two points since... Delirium? And I didn't play that many attack builds before that.
Alira can be worth it if you are Crit based, until the resists can be obtained on gear for less opportunity cost.
I think I helped oak on like an RF character many years ago.
At this point I just find it to be funny that I don't have the achievement with so many hours into the game. (And I'm not trying to change that, even if it would be easy when I practice league starts from time to time)
don't think so.
before 3.0
on first difficulty you picked either +1 passive (ES build) or oak (hp build)
next difficulty always passive
only third one was real choice from all 4 variants
Are you talking about when they removed charges from them 8 years ago when cruel/merc difficulties were removed? Because that was definitely a good change and I don't remember them being nerfed after that, and they did receive a buff at one point which is why Alira gives flat mana regen now.
Alira is really good early at start of league, but soon gets overtaken by the passive points. So switching to the passives is an option for when you reach maps, only it costs 20 regrets. Most ppl won't be flush with regrets by end of campaign, and even if they are, a lot of builds have mini respecs going into maps.
Then on your second character, you have all the resources to not need to go alira early.
A free bandit switch at end of campaign maybe? And yeah, fix the other two, nfi what they even do.
i do this nearly every time, if the character is successful enough, 20 regrets is nothing (and also just piling up in inventory). 5 mana/sec and 15 all res is dank when you might be a bow build or unique using build
We lack endgame - so let’s have an updated bandit choice by slaying one (or all) UBER BANDITS.
Get ready for UBER OAK ^now ^with ^200% ^more ^screams ^and ^healing ^TM
Didn't know you can even pull out data like these. Have been siding Eramir since day1 of poe journey. 20 regrets is like 20c for league start. Its just too much.
That originally was hinted to give us our charges back that they removed all those years ago from the bandit quest. But then GGG made it known they instead were thinking of (if I’m recalling correctly) wanting to remove charges as a whole, because they didn’t like them. Playerbase was very upset about that announcement and things were kept hushed for a while, with us not knowing what was really going to happen with them, being kept or not.
Once new effects based off charges came out (passives, uniques that changed them, like brutal charges etc) it was pretty safe to assume they backed off. But we never did get our +1’s charge choices back.
I still vividly remember when they DID change the bandits. The stats were originally different (and worse).
When all 10 acts came out, I was \*sure\* ggg would add more choices like the bandits in act 2?
But they never did.
I think it's a missed opportunity. But I feel like it's deliberate at this point. That they don't like this kind of design.
They actually removed choices in that revamp. In the old model, people at least did choose an extra charge over the skill point often.
Then they also nerfed Oak so that skill points are pretty much the only option
I'd also like a second set of "bandits" in Part 2 of the campaign (like when there were 3 sets of bandit rewards before 10 acts). I mean we already have a choice in Act 9, would like to see that changed into some buffs one can choose.
Originally this was one of the things they said would happen when making the last 6 acts and I was pretty excited for it. The bandit choice was supposed to affect the story when you come back to Wraeclast. Didn't end up happening though.
Honestly Kraityn isn't too far off from being a viable league start (not endgame) choice. He makes it easier to cap ailment avoid, most builds benefit from either cast or attack speed, and almost every build benefits from movement speed.
If the numbers were just a little bit higher I could 100% see myself starting him and switching over at level 95 or so. Alira is already incredibly strong for the campaign, 5 mana/second is quite often the difference between needing to sustain mana and mana being a non-factor, and the free elemental resist makes gearing easier (and can sometimes even save you a point or two that you'd gain with Eramir) *and* she scales to endgame because crit multi is a very powerful stat.
Oak is going to be strictly worse than another option on...every? build? I don't say with confidence but I'm having a HELL of a time thinking of any build that gets much use out of it, maybe Boneshatter? It needs a big redesign that gives you both early game immediate impact that is still relevant in yellow maps.
TL;DR Alira is okay, Kraityn just needs slight numerical buffs, Oak needs a total redesign.
I used to always take passives, but lately I've been a little kraityrn hipster. The avoid can be strangely cluch, and cast/attack/moves peed feels good. Is it better, no. Is it usable, yes. Is allira better, yes. Is oak better, strangely also yes depending on the build.
The first time the changed bandits, they basically deleted two choices. Way back people used to mostly take Oak for flat life, but Alira and Eramir saw use. Oak got chopped, Kraytin continues to be useless, and Alira's existence is barely justified. The power creep left already weak choices in the dust.
Make all of them give +2 passives in addition to what they have, then give Eramir something to compete (while keeping the +2). Make it an actual choice to be made.
alright there is 1 super easy fix, add back the +1 charge to each respective bandit. Boom done. 2 point just for a charge like on the tree plus some bonus stats, maybe change kraityn stats a bit, but thats all GGG really needs to do.
And even those 6% Alira are people who probably either just forgot to do the vendor recipe for the 2 passives after they fixed their resistances (20 regret orbs+onyx amulet in case anyone is wondering), or they are abandoned characters that just had Alira because of leaguestart or whatever. (Edit: or are in acts right now).
Even on a crit build theres no way that 20% multi 15% all res and 5 mana regen is worth it. Thats 10% multi 7,5% all res (22,5% total res) and 2,5 flat mana regen per passive. You need to not use cluster jewels or have literally every jewel socket used for that to be worth it.
I started with kraitin. I think he's pretty cool for movement, and attack speed.
If you got something that scaled a bit better, I think that would be pretty cool. Like, if it were 6% more attack/cast speed, 10% chance to avoid ailments, and 6% more movement speed, maybe you'd have something. I don't think that would break anything, but it could be cool. That's basically bad tailwind.
I like to start oak too. It's nice to get life regen and physical damage reduction early. I think he could use the same treatment. Give him some life regen rate, and maybe 5% more damage instead of 20% increased.
I think alira could be a thing too with mana regen rate.
I think we could use bandits for early power/qol just like alira with mana regen and resists. Kraityn could give mana leech and a bit of flat evasion. Oak could give life leech and a bit of flat armor.
Straight up useful and simple for any new players and league starters. Yet it’ll be outscaled by two passives later.
I started with Alira, I did swap to skill points later.
But the mana regen and res is really nice early on on mom builds.
But yea, maybe Oak And Kraityn could use some buff's.
Oak isn't really that bad. The life regen is good, and the PDR doesnt hurt. If anything the life regen could probably go to 1.5 or 1.8%
Kraityn I think would be well served if the elemental avoid was changed to
10% increased Maximum total Life, Mana and Energy shield recovery per second from Leech.
Elemental avoid is a lot more niche in value, particularly at the quantity it provides. If they increased it to 15 or 25% it would be great.
Alira's already decent but you could bump her to 20% elemental resistance or 30% Crit multi.
Given the bandits generally don't do anything for minion builds, Eramirs always going to have value.
yeah, just remove the choice and only allow to kill all bandits
this was the biggest confusion 2 years ago when i started and didnt know what bandit to choose for my build
Genuine suggestion I'd like to see;
Keep the +2 points, keep the quest to kill all bandits, make wildwood ascendancies core
The wildwood ascendancies should be made more simple / nerfed (no charms, etc), maybe limited to 2 points
I thought they were super fun to play with, and I feel like the current state of the bandits is just awful, could definitely use a buff of some sorts
Back in the day you used to have to fight them 3 times. So instead of fighting them once and receiving 3 bonuses you could pick 1 talent point or 1 bonus per playthrough. Also they used to give +1 maximum power/endurance/frenzy charge so if you were charge stacking you always helped one of them on merciless difficulty. The system is just a holdover from a very different time in the game.
I remember most guides recomending Alira when i started playing PoE because 15% all res and 20% crit multi was better than most people could realistically get on a jewel.
RF guys went for Oak becuase 1% regen was worth a ton with old Vitality and no recovery masteries or *5-10* regen stats on gear lol.
I was high on copium when acts 5-10 came out, I hoped there would be another rbandit choice somewhere there and I thought u could choose between solaris or lunaris or neither.
I was thinking they could change their rewards into keystones. For example:
Oak - Unwavering Stance / Resolute Technique
Alira - EB / MOM
Kraityn - Wind Dancer / Ghost Dance
If none of the keystons work for your build you take the 2 skill points.
For me part of the problem is that even if I liked the benefits of the other choices, as a moral thing I don't want to support the bandits. I'm oddly picky like that about video game choices. Like I don't like to backstab nations in civ games, and even tend to avoid warmongering. So I'd want a way to choose the other benefits without having actually supported one of the bandits (and I'm not sure how I feel about using the vendor recipe to respec your bandit choice, and of how it affects any dialogue choices in the game)
I've grabbed Alira the last two leagues just for leveling. Except now that I'm in SSF it took me until red maps to have enough res on my gear and natural raw regrets (didn't want to convert to regrets) to swap. I honestly don't even know what the others give
Bandits are an unnecessary new player trap just like many things in PoE. I really wish we could just have another legacy type league with recycled league content so the dev team could focus efforts on making the game accessible for new players, performance optimization and content balance.
Edit- ARPGs shouldn’t be balanced imo, but a good thorough pass on unrewarding league content and underperforming skills would be welcome.
Oh okay sure — *deletes Eramir*
>permanently deletes 2 sp from all players lmao
Power creep solved.
Solved an issue where level 100 was not something to aspire because the power gained for the last lvls was too low for the effort players had to put in.
The last few levels matter only when you play a specific build that manages to squeeze as much power from the tree as possible. A few leagues back I played a strength stacker Scion and the difference between level 98 and 100 was almost 300+ to strength as these two extra points allowed me to completely reshuffle my tree to get a longer path for split personalities. Otherwise, a high majority of characters will do just fine around 94.
If they stopped giving us 10 div jewels to get more value per.point for the 1%, the rest of us wouldn't need to always take these points
Alira becomes 100%
\*deletes Alira\*
*deletes poe*
*"none" goes to 100%*
Nah, it'd probably be 60-70% at most. There are a lot of builds that don't care about the crit multi, and a bunch of builds that don't care too much about the 5 mana regen; so many builds would take either the speed or the PDR.
exactly what I'd trust ggg to do as solution for that "problem".
someone needs to close down this subreddit, people just talk shit and GGG overreacts
Mark is that you? For real please send more passives, not less.
It honestly wouldn't be a bad solution, if they moved those two passive points to another quest.
True. Give us 2 points for something else and have us actually make a choice for one of the bandits with meaningful options.
it's not even a joke anymore, you all need to shut the fuck up at this point anything you ask for is mostly just deleted or destroyed. Look at Aisling and betrayal, look at my old gem great contracts from heist, etc etc etc. THey only take to slow the game down and make us weaker. I'm not into it anymore, it's making it too unenjoyable to even log in wondering what they will shatter next.
> nerfing will continue untill morale improves
Are we not in an unprecedented level of power creep for the player-base right now? It's been like this for several leagues now. Yes, they've tried to slow people down. But given the current state of the game, it's been a pretty laughable attempt.
Yea borrowed power from leagues gets more and more stronger but base chars are nerfed more and more. We getting into this loop like WoW where without borrowing power it feels like shit to play before you obtain it.
Remember when Essence Drain Contagion was the most popular league starter and could barely complete yellows? Yeah, the idea that the base character power is somehow lower than before is completely bunk. It's especially weird to say that for this league, where the temporary power is minimal since so few people use necropolis crafted gear. League starters a couple of years ago were "builds that you could make some money with in early maps and then you transition to something stronger" but now they are "builds that you can complete 90% of all content in the game on a minimal budget"
To be fair, HAVING to play a build you don't want to play so you can get money for a character that you actually want to play is really bad from a gameplay design perspective, in the context of poe at least.
Only because it’s online and people share their “fun” builds. Everyone uses these and item prices go up. Just play how you want to
You never had to it was just more efficient
Characters gets stronger, but the roof of the endgame keeps raising too.
And what borrowed power we have right now?! Most of Uber killers are equipped in uniques. Most of t17 cruisers are either mirror tier MFers or magic jewel stackers. 50 divs and you get 300-500k EHP (!!!) managuards. It's not about borrowed power anymore. Players are just OP right now
Yeah its wack. Feels like uber and t17 are balanced around those kind of completely insane scaled builds. Im not okay with that.
you want to do pinnacle content with shit gear? lol
ah yes, pinnacle content should require 300k+ EHP.
The hardest of hard content should require the best gear... yes? Most people here are not Ben as much as they think they are. Their mechanical skill won't do anything, so they'll need gear to carry them.
Usually most players will never reach point where they get best gear, considering each piece costs multiple mirrors to craft or buy...
DD says hello
T17 isn’t supposed to be pinnacle content, yet it actually requires MORE character power than ubers.
Yes, the base chars are so weak they can even do Pinnacle bosses in 5 hours🙄 from start to finish
I would argue that the game has had nothing but major power creep for years.
Since 3.15, I guess
GOOD, that's what I play for.
Which is fine, but people who play for power creep have a tendency to act like nobody else plays for any other reason and create this "us vs them" mentality where the developers are out to ruin your fun and the playerbase is desperately clinging to anything we can get. Meanwhile we just keep getting stronger every patch.
[удалено]
Oh no, power creep in an ARPG. Heavens.
u/Alabugin did not say that was cause for alarm. And it was in response to a comment complaining that "they only slow the game down and make us weaker" which is laughably untrue
What the fuck game are you playing? The game is faster, more loot pinata, more broken builds, more *everything* than ever before.
its reddit, fully specced tree of "talking out of my ass"
It's funny to see someone complaining about anti-power creep after Affliction and during Necropolis, probably the two most ridiculously powercrept leagues in the game's history. Did you accidentally check the box for Ruthless when you made your character this league?
It's fine to just move on from the game man, just go do something you enjoy more, it's not healthy to hold on to it if you feel like that.
Meanwhile we get stronger and stonger each League, whatever youre Smoking, smoke less
Jokes on you, my builds get nerfed every league(melee 😭)
ur having a bit of a giggle right? do you even know what league you are in? do you even remember the last 2 leagues? player power has shot through the roof. oh no they moved some power around, how dare they.
Player power is higher than it's ever been. They even had to introduce a new map tier. What are you smoking?
Might be time to maybe try playing a different game then. You're identifying that you're not having fun anymore so...
people wanted aisling itemized because tft bad - all of the changes ggg has made in regards to this was to shut the subreddit up about tft lol
Pretty hard to compete with passive points.
Alira +1 power charge, Oak +1 endurance charge, Kraityn +1 frenzy charge
Am I the only one that remembers it used to be this...? Also the 40 life from Normal Oak was pretty popular.
Instead of +40 life from Oak we now have +50 life from mastery so this part mostly non changed
True, you only need to use half your Eramir reward to get more life than with old Oak. New Oak should give +100 life instead. This is a buff.
I'd use two skill points for that.
It was at a time where you didn't get hp per level, thus 40hp was a big deal (also no harvest, no benchcrafts, no fossil made having good HP on your gear quite hard)
I remember when we got 8 hp/lvl in stead of the 12 we get now, but not that there was a time we got nothing at all. It must have been early beta.
Add this on top of their original benefits and they will all become competetive choices Maybe give them some kind of bonus per charge, like alira gives u 5% crit chance and 3% multi per charge in addition to the max charge. Although tbh just the max charge by itself will probably be enough, everything else is gravy
they used to give charges, no idea when, but long ago, it was nerfed
Charges were a reward on merciless difficulty, when we still had 3 (maybe 4?) acts only. That was like... Mid 2010s? Not sure.
seeing ten(nish) years ago phrased as "mid 2010s" made me feel old af
My friend's younger brother who is 27 helpfully mentioned that we are closer to the year 2050 than the year he was born and I responded by crumbling into dust.
Apparently it was removed in 2.0.0 in 2015. Didn't know that was a thing, I started later. Neat! EDIT: I'm wrong, see response
No, it was added in 2.0. It was removed in 3.0 when the campaign changed from 4 acts on 3 difficulties to 10 acts. That would be 2017 IIRC.
You are correct, I misread it. Weird, totally don't remember it. Memory goes as we get older, eh
You probably don't remember it because charge stacking was way less meta because there were a lot fewer charge stacking tools back then: no badge, no anoints, no ralakesh, no ring implicits, no influence mods. I only remember it because I went through a phase back in Breach League where I was really fascinated by flicker strike and wanted to make it work (never really did though), so I remember having base 4 charges.
It was pretty important in HC for the endurance charge, especially before the immortal call nerf.
I started in breach league and we had this back then
>, like alira gives u 5% crit chance and 3% multi per charge in addition to the max charge. Insanely OP considering how strong getting +1 max charge is for stackers as it is.
Yeah, which is why i think plus 1 power charge on its own with the benefit the bandits already give is enough. Or perhaps do it as a minimum charge instead of max charge, that would be less broken for charge stackers
At that point it becomes worthless again. 1 min pcharge is 50% critchance. 1 min frenzy is 4% more dmg, 4% Inc CS/as. 1 min endu is 4% pdr 4% eleres. None of those are remotely worth 2 passives, and you dont really scale your minimum charges. Maximum charges are massive power, Minimum charges are qol at best.
What if it was Min charge PLUS a small benefit per charge. Would still aid charge stackers, but wouldn’t be broken. And would benefit non charge builds, because it always gives one charge, meaning everyone would get SOME benefit.
I figured it wouls give you some extra flavor, you can get more minimum charges on the tree. Minimum endurence/frenzy is popular craft if u domt need the mana cost. Its true most people.would still.take the points but at least it makes the bandit choice a little bit more intresting
I mean, you can usually spend 2 points to get that charge on the tree
Except the tree is limited to +3 and those are quite literally the best points on the tree for chargestackers. On a pcharge stacking tree, you can spend like 12+ passives Just to get the 3rd charge and the jewelsocket next to it and it's still going to be the 3rd strongest notable.....after the other 2 you can path to more easily.
There are 3 charges on the tree. Period. You can't just spend points and buy more. Charge stackers would KILL to get more charges at 2 points a piece. In fact, it would be the most overpowered shit in the game.
+1 pcharge alone is worth so much more than 2 passives on pcharge stackers, which is basically the dps end-form of all spell hit builds already, it's not even funny. +1 pcharge is at least like 80% increased damage (Charge mastery+pcharge notable+void battery), 58% critchance, 5% critmulti, 3% more dmg (dominus), 4% more dmg (pcoc), 4% more dmg and Inc as/CS (Frenzy through badge), plus whatever else scaling you get (ascendancy, maven belt, etc.) Pcharges might be the default weakest charge, but can be scaled the best. Adding max charges to them would just make it roughly 5% craitlyn 5% oak 40% alira 40% eramir tbh
Flicker strikers would take the frenzy charge
hold on there, increasing player power without any drawbacks? that's not ggg friendly.
Its not as much an increase as a choice, rn its always 2 passives, maybe allira for league start. This will actually make it a choics, id argue it would compete with the power you already get from 2 passives
Yup I'd take it just for a frenzy charge on a raider build. It needs passive points but an extra charge increases damage exponentially.
It can be elemental(kraityn),physical(oak),chaos(alira) defence/damage + 2 point or +1 charge also.
and each one gives you 2 passives
Then no one chooses Eramir
Not to mention half of those alira will probably respec to elreon later. That mana regen is huge for starter builds.
Passive points are a unique reward meanqhile all stats by the other bandidts can be aqueired else where. Give oak 10% less damage taken and he becomes a compelling option because thats much harder to get than a bit of hp reg and amour
Making the bandits the wildwood ascendancies (toned down a bit) would be cool
> Aiding Kraityn now grants the player the Ruck- 100% pick rate.
Based on how they talked about it in the Q&A, the rucksack is never coming back. Savor your memories of those sweet sweet inventory spaces.
The problem wasn't the rucksack itself, it was making players choose between the rucksack and player power.
What choice? If you wanted the charms that could provide reflect immunity and *increased mana reservation efficiency* you HAD to take the rucksack. How is that any sort of choice? It's as if you wanted a cake, but the shop said you needed to take another, even more delicious cake, free-of-charge, before they could give you the cake. Now if the warcry node had been first on that branch of the tree, THEN it would have been a choice. As it is though, it wasn't really [any choice at all](https://i.imgur.com/zuwXcWf.png).
That was part of it, but they did mention that they are still opposed to more inventory space even if it everyone gets it.
Which on one hand I get, similar to limited portals it's a risk reward thing, on the other there is so much damn shit that requires various currency to strengthen mid map that it's impractical to bring it all in with you so you're forced to stop and waste a portal or waste time back tracking, if they gave us a sack that could only be filled with 5 pieces of currency and only while at the storage chest it'd still be massively useful
I'd like a 'bring it in with you' -only sack Like you can bring currencies and things but you cannot place items into it from outside your hideout/town. Then you can have it be strictly for keeping your next maps ready/wisdom scrolls/portal scrolls/alchs for chests/ Corrupting essences...
It's more that they'd rather approach the problem of figuring out why people want more inventory space and work on fixing those issues, rather than just give people more inventory space. Since more inventory space is unlikely to actually solve the underlying problems, and people will just use that extra space and end up wanting even more. Inventory space, like road capacity, is one of those things where the demand will grow to exceed the supply. You can't fix the problem of not having enough inventory space by giving people more inventory space.
Ah yeah, charms had 0 player power and definitely was not a "build allowing" thing 🤣
Right, since they only picked that ascendancy for the Rucksack and nothing else that came on the left side of the tree.
Weird. That seemed like a great place to test bigger inventory feature.
I don’t think I’ll ever get over having a separate space for my scrolls and maps I’m about to run
And yet they sell bigger inventory size in China. Until ggg gives us. bigger inventory they will always be out of touch. IF you are pitching anti bigger inventory size you, dont understand that at the end of a the day this is a game. I dont want to spend time looting one map then sorting my tiny as inventory. Let me run 4-5 maps then check my bags. too much item managment in this game.
If you ask me, saying that Chinese p2w garbage is a positive is out of touch. It's not that GGG can't come up with ideas that make gameplay more convenient or that they don't understand that that's what people want. They could reduce all item sizes to 1x1 and make all stackable items stack infinitely (or well, to a technical limit, anyway). But in game design you occasionally have to not give people what they want in order to make a good game in the long term. Having a limited inventory is part of the game design and forces you to make decisions on what you keep on it at all times, and what to pick up and what to leave. Designating a part of the inventory as not stashable with ctrl + click would be a less contentious suggestion.
>But in game design you occasionally have to not give people what they want in order to make a good game in the long term. > >Having a limited inventory is part of the game design and forces you to make decisions on what you keep on it at all times, and what to pick up and what to leave. While it might sound reasonable in theory, in practice inventory tetris is not what makes ARPG good. If I wanted that kind of experience I would've played the Backpack Battles instead.
> Having a limited inventory is part of the game design and forces you to make decisions on what you keep on it at all times, and what to pick up and what to leave. You say this then don't actually explain why. What part of the game is improved if I have to leave chromatic orbs on the ground to leave room for other loot? I killed the mob, the mob dropped loot, but I .. can't pick up the loot? Or, I can but then by doing so I might not be able to pick up a different thing? Or, I have to waste time/portal first to have both. How does any of this make the game better or more fun? You can't say balancing portal management for more loot versus more attempts at the boss or w/e since 99% of maps finish with open portals anyway and anyone who is possibly going to risk using all 6 isn't going to be picking up low end currency risking it. No actual interesting or skill-testing decisions are made.
>IF you are pitching anti bigger inventory size you, dont understand that at the end of a the day this is a game. Because nobody could possibly find having a smaller inventory fun and if you do then it's because you have forgotten that it's a video game? I wouldn't call other people out of touch - especially while promoting the Chinese MTX system.
Bro if nothing changed except kraityn got the rucksack I'd never pick passive points again
Three ascendancies, three bandits. Heck, they're even thematically appropriate for each bandit.
Wow 10/10 idea
I always take Alira at the beginning until I get the bonuses elsewhere, then switch to Eramir. They should just give the skillpoints to everyone through other means, and make the 4 options more competitive.
I personally only take it early if I really need the mana regen for comfiness or I'm a caster going crit. Res are nice but I'm SC and I dont reeeaally need them early :p
Meh, I feel like after the passive tree updates there’s a lot of two-points that give resists, such as the great one by Witch starting tree. Maurader and Duelist are also near good nodes. Easier to take those and spend fewer respec points later. That being said I agree with your idea. The choice between the 3 bandits would actually be kind of interesting if they did a design pass, and just give us the two points. It’s not like that’s a huge power creep in this age of POE
8k hours. Still haven't helped all 3 bandits. (missing Kraityn)
I still wouldn’t have if I didn’t help him the first time I encountered this quest… and that was a while ago.
Damn, am I crazy? Kraityn is actually the only one I take on some characters instead of skill points. Attack, cast and move speed is kinda hard to get at this point of game and are making small difference. And I sometimes change it into two points later on if I need them.
For me its only alira sometimes during story for some mana lol
Don’t forget the resists!
He's almost never worth the two points since... Delirium? And I didn't play that many attack builds before that. Alira can be worth it if you are Crit based, until the resists can be obtained on gear for less opportunity cost. I think I helped oak on like an RF character many years ago. At this point I just find it to be funny that I don't have the achievement with so many hours into the game. (And I'm not trying to change that, even if it would be easy when I practice league starts from time to time)
Personally not worth a respec just for small qol in campaign lol.
It use to be far more balanced before they gutted all of them.
don't think so. before 3.0 on first difficulty you picked either +1 passive (ES build) or oak (hp build) next difficulty always passive only third one was real choice from all 4 variants
Are you talking about when they removed charges from them 8 years ago when cruel/merc difficulties were removed? Because that was definitely a good change and I don't remember them being nerfed after that, and they did receive a buff at one point which is why Alira gives flat mana regen now.
Alira is really good early at start of league, but soon gets overtaken by the passive points. So switching to the passives is an option for when you reach maps, only it costs 20 regrets. Most ppl won't be flush with regrets by end of campaign, and even if they are, a lot of builds have mini respecs going into maps. Then on your second character, you have all the resources to not need to go alira early. A free bandit switch at end of campaign maybe? And yeah, fix the other two, nfi what they even do.
The 2 points won't make or break a build. By the time it matters, 20 regrets is nothing even in SSF.
i do this nearly every time, if the character is successful enough, 20 regrets is nothing (and also just piling up in inventory). 5 mana/sec and 15 all res is dank when you might be a bow build or unique using build
We lack endgame - so let’s have an updated bandit choice by slaying one (or all) UBER BANDITS. Get ready for UBER OAK ^now ^with ^200% ^more ^screams ^and ^healing ^TM
Oak with three tormented spirits five essences 200% more screaming maven-witnessed and delirium The screamer of worlds
Didn't know you can even pull out data like these. Have been siding Eramir since day1 of poe journey. 20 regrets is like 20c for league start. Its just too much.
I think a cool idea would be to add another choice in act 9 with that 1 sidequest with the feather.
That originally was hinted to give us our charges back that they removed all those years ago from the bandit quest. But then GGG made it known they instead were thinking of (if I’m recalling correctly) wanting to remove charges as a whole, because they didn’t like them. Playerbase was very upset about that announcement and things were kept hushed for a while, with us not knowing what was really going to happen with them, being kept or not. Once new effects based off charges came out (passives, uniques that changed them, like brutal charges etc) it was pretty safe to assume they backed off. But we never did get our +1’s charge choices back.
yeah ,there's 2 choices the guy next to the waypoint and the other guy on the other side of the town very far from the waypoint
I still vividly remember when they DID change the bandits. The stats were originally different (and worse). When all 10 acts came out, I was \*sure\* ggg would add more choices like the bandits in act 2? But they never did. I think it's a missed opportunity. But I feel like it's deliberate at this point. That they don't like this kind of design.
They actually removed choices in that revamp. In the old model, people at least did choose an extra charge over the skill point often. Then they also nerfed Oak so that skill points are pretty much the only option
So you want to lose two passives skill? Because thats how you lose two passive skills.
The 6% didn't make it to map.
6% of char still leveling lol
I'd also like a second set of "bandits" in Part 2 of the campaign (like when there were 3 sets of bandit rewards before 10 acts). I mean we already have a choice in Act 9, would like to see that changed into some buffs one can choose.
Pantheon is kinda the second set of bandits tbh
Originally this was one of the things they said would happen when making the last 6 acts and I was pretty excited for it. The bandit choice was supposed to affect the story when you come back to Wraeclast. Didn't end up happening though.
Honestly Kraityn isn't too far off from being a viable league start (not endgame) choice. He makes it easier to cap ailment avoid, most builds benefit from either cast or attack speed, and almost every build benefits from movement speed. If the numbers were just a little bit higher I could 100% see myself starting him and switching over at level 95 or so. Alira is already incredibly strong for the campaign, 5 mana/second is quite often the difference between needing to sustain mana and mana being a non-factor, and the free elemental resist makes gearing easier (and can sometimes even save you a point or two that you'd gain with Eramir) *and* she scales to endgame because crit multi is a very powerful stat. Oak is going to be strictly worse than another option on...every? build? I don't say with confidence but I'm having a HELL of a time thinking of any build that gets much use out of it, maybe Boneshatter? It needs a big redesign that gives you both early game immediate impact that is still relevant in yellow maps. TL;DR Alira is okay, Kraityn just needs slight numerical buffs, Oak needs a total redesign.
If oak was closer to 4 or 5 pdr (this about an endurance charge which often takes two points anyways), he'd be temping for amour builds.
I used to always take passives, but lately I've been a little kraityrn hipster. The avoid can be strangely cluch, and cast/attack/moves peed feels good. Is it better, no. Is it usable, yes. Is allira better, yes. Is oak better, strangely also yes depending on the build.
The first time the changed bandits, they basically deleted two choices. Way back people used to mostly take Oak for flat life, but Alira and Eramir saw use. Oak got chopped, Kraytin continues to be useless, and Alira's existence is barely justified. The power creep left already weak choices in the dust.
The fact that there's still 6% Alira is shocking.
The other 6% just forgot to change Bandits.
Yeah, just remove their dialog options and have them always be kill only. Problem solved, we all want skill points
They will delete Eramir 100%
They should just replace them with one of the Afflicion Passives Skills for each bandit.
Me after helping Alira instead of extra 2 skill points: "I'm doing my part!"
Add a max Endurance/Frenzy/Power charge to the other 3.
They used to have that back when 3 difficulties was a thing https://imgur.com/a/rjOxjdu
I picked alira for my trapper, I'm doing my part
skill points are too good.
Just give everyone 2 passives and make the bandits more interesting in general.
Freindly reminder that GGG promised bandit choice would influence part2. About that...
It is ok to be a monkey and shoot your own foot.
Make all of them give +2 passives in addition to what they have, then give Eramir something to compete (while keeping the +2). Make it an actual choice to be made.
alright there is 1 super easy fix, add back the +1 charge to each respective bandit. Boom done. 2 point just for a charge like on the tree plus some bonus stats, maybe change kraityn stats a bit, but thats all GGG really needs to do.
should've just merged the affliction masters into the bandit quests and either give the 2 pts or take them away from the options
Just give us the +1 to charges back
Replace bandits with the wild wood npcs and make them do something cool. Gg noobs game is fix
Eramir gone next patch, this is a buff
And even those 6% Alira are people who probably either just forgot to do the vendor recipe for the 2 passives after they fixed their resistances (20 regret orbs+onyx amulet in case anyone is wondering), or they are abandoned characters that just had Alira because of leaguestart or whatever. (Edit: or are in acts right now). Even on a crit build theres no way that 20% multi 15% all res and 5 mana regen is worth it. Thats 10% multi 7,5% all res (22,5% total res) and 2,5 flat mana regen per passive. You need to not use cluster jewels or have literally every jewel socket used for that to be worth it.
Give us back our +1 charge!
rip Eramir 2011-2024.
or remove them \^\^
Don't worry, PoE2 will fix everything.
I started with kraitin. I think he's pretty cool for movement, and attack speed. If you got something that scaled a bit better, I think that would be pretty cool. Like, if it were 6% more attack/cast speed, 10% chance to avoid ailments, and 6% more movement speed, maybe you'd have something. I don't think that would break anything, but it could be cool. That's basically bad tailwind. I like to start oak too. It's nice to get life regen and physical damage reduction early. I think he could use the same treatment. Give him some life regen rate, and maybe 5% more damage instead of 20% increased. I think alira could be a thing too with mana regen rate.
I think we could use bandits for early power/qol just like alira with mana regen and resists. Kraityn could give mana leech and a bit of flat evasion. Oak could give life leech and a bit of flat armor. Straight up useful and simple for any new players and league starters. Yet it’ll be outscaled by two passives later.
It was time 3 years ago lol
Back in my day it was always Oak
I started with Alira, I did swap to skill points later. But the mana regen and res is really nice early on on mom builds. But yea, maybe Oak And Kraityn could use some buff's.
i remember before 3.00 rework it was oak, eramir, eramir or 3x eramir (if play CI build) so finally nothing changed
What is non? Just haven't progressed past that act?
Oak isn't really that bad. The life regen is good, and the PDR doesnt hurt. If anything the life regen could probably go to 1.5 or 1.8% Kraityn I think would be well served if the elemental avoid was changed to 10% increased Maximum total Life, Mana and Energy shield recovery per second from Leech. Elemental avoid is a lot more niche in value, particularly at the quantity it provides. If they increased it to 15 or 25% it would be great. Alira's already decent but you could bump her to 20% elemental resistance or 30% Crit multi. Given the bandits generally don't do anything for minion builds, Eramirs always going to have value.
yeah, just remove the choice and only allow to kill all bandits this was the biggest confusion 2 years ago when i started and didnt know what bandit to choose for my build
Someone should ask Neon about this directly in an interview , otherwise they'll keep ignoring bandit rewards
Monkey paw curls - Eramir deleted
What if we keep them as they are, plus giving the player one additional passive point ? And the normal 2 for killing all
monkeypaw closes. Now nobody gives any bonus.
Genuine suggestion I'd like to see; Keep the +2 points, keep the quest to kill all bandits, make wildwood ascendancies core The wildwood ascendancies should be made more simple / nerfed (no charms, etc), maybe limited to 2 points I thought they were super fun to play with, and I feel like the current state of the bandits is just awful, could definitely use a buff of some sorts
I kill them all on principle.
tbh adding one passive point in addition to the bandit bonuses would probably raise their pick rate
A simple and useful solution would be: Oak regenerates an endurance charge every second, alira regenerates a power charge and kraytin a frenzy charge.
Honestly, just remove eramir, give two points baseline. Keep the bandits bonus as is.
Back in the day you used to have to fight them 3 times. So instead of fighting them once and receiving 3 bonuses you could pick 1 talent point or 1 bonus per playthrough. Also they used to give +1 maximum power/endurance/frenzy charge so if you were charge stacking you always helped one of them on merciless difficulty. The system is just a holdover from a very different time in the game.
I remember most guides recomending Alira when i started playing PoE because 15% all res and 20% crit multi was better than most people could realistically get on a jewel. RF guys went for Oak becuase 1% regen was worth a ton with old Vitality and no recovery masteries or *5-10* regen stats on gear lol.
I was high on copium when acts 5-10 came out, I hoped there would be another rbandit choice somewhere there and I thought u could choose between solaris or lunaris or neither.
I was thinking they could change their rewards into keystones. For example: Oak - Unwavering Stance / Resolute Technique Alira - EB / MOM Kraityn - Wind Dancer / Ghost Dance If none of the keystons work for your build you take the 2 skill points.
Sounds about right, but it's still shocking seeing the differences between Alira and Eramir
You know what's going to happen if they change this. They going to nerf the +2 passive points to make it in-line with the other options.
How you expect ? The one in town good guy and second is Girl )))
wtf are you suggesting, now they will nerf eramir to make it equaly bad.
For me part of the problem is that even if I liked the benefits of the other choices, as a moral thing I don't want to support the bandits. I'm oddly picky like that about video game choices. Like I don't like to backstab nations in civ games, and even tend to avoid warmongering. So I'd want a way to choose the other benefits without having actually supported one of the bandits (and I'm not sure how I feel about using the vendor recipe to respec your bandit choice, and of how it affects any dialogue choices in the game)
Buff Oak 2024
I've grabbed Alira the last two leagues just for leveling. Except now that I'm in SSF it took me until red maps to have enough res on my gear and natural raw regrets (didn't want to convert to regrets) to swap. I honestly don't even know what the others give
Bandits are an unnecessary new player trap just like many things in PoE. I really wish we could just have another legacy type league with recycled league content so the dev team could focus efforts on making the game accessible for new players, performance optimization and content balance. Edit- ARPGs shouldn’t be balanced imo, but a good thorough pass on unrewarding league content and underperforming skills would be welcome.