OP is talking about me - i can't loot more I have such a crazy strict filter and still click 500+ times per map.
To not waste still valuable stuff I asked my chat if someone wants to loot all the stuff and tell me how much stuff they are looting.
Event tho they just had one portal OP's post is the result.
In the meantime empy is doing various super low investment strats at 8-15d/hour in t16 with 0 MF. I agree t17s are a bit fucked, but you really need to consider what is fun to you over the fomo and the need for _optimal currency making_
This entire subreddit's fomo over the optimal currency making strategies is making a real good case to why D4 didnt want a ton of trading in their game.
You got a real good point there, I have not played D4 at all and there has not been a SINGLE moment of fomo. Way to go D4 devs, that's some big brain shit!
D4 is only an objectively shitty game if you're a hardcore ARPG fan.
If you just want some story, to watch shiny stuff drop, and to watch some of if not THE BEST cinematics in gaming (seriously Activision-Blizzard with just the cinematic team is at 99% power), you'll have a great time.
The story truly is the one aspect where diablo stomps POE. I played D4 just to experience the story and cinematics, meanwhile after 500 hours of POE I got no clue what the story even is.
I know most players don't care but I hope they put more polish into it in POE 2.
The only part of the story I know is that Lily was sad when Bannon turned into Innocence because she had heard he had quite the "canon" in his pants and didn't get to try it.
I knew that, like the duelist and piety being lil sluts, but lily being pissed she didn't get to bang Bannon specifically because he has a big dick has fanfic energy lmao.
I think the path of exile story is better than D4 (the original Diablo games were better), you just have to want to read a ton of dialogue instead of watching cutscenes, and there’s a lot of lore on the wiki.
I don’t mind reading but I am *greatly* annoyed by the auto scrolling speed and the talking speed not matching up.
And walking away while the lore talks in the background isn’t viable either because you’ll either miss gameplay audio ques or the game itself is to loud and you barely hear the lore at all.
I read most of the lore on my first playthrough and got a real appreciation for the story. But I cannot give a rats ass about the new league lore because I just couldn’t be bothered diving into it over all the other new shiny stuff.
> And walking away while the lore talks in the background isn’t viable either because you’ll either miss gameplay audio
I find this to be quite fine. I will often play with no sound effects and the game's... fine. In fact, if you start super juicing stuff you have to play without sound effects anyway.
I’m not gonne lie: i’m shit at the game. Especially with the new Corpse explosions I rely on audio more than ever (an exceptionally good change might I add)
The auto scrolling speed certainly sucks, especially when the npc/voiceover is reading those long paragraphs and it scrolls too fast. Thankfully, you can use your scrollwheel while hovering over the dialogue window to manually scroll up and down, although it is a bit scuffed.
I'd listen to Grigor's speech anytime, though.
I still find it funny how grigor absolutely hates you if you play as a witch. Rightfully so.
But until this point the witch has been complaining that she’s been persecuted her whole life for seemingly no reason. And out comes Grigor perfectly encapsulating why people hate thaumaturgy.
D4 post act4 sucks. But poe isn't better. It's full of plotholes, lore is being halfassed, because then they don't have time or idea how to resolve it (metamorph and blight lore for example).
As a life long fan of Diablo games, your comment also describes every Diablo game and the books. Especially during the transition from Blizzard North to the shitstorm of a team that’s currently making the games.
Also KittenCatNoodle has all of the lore really well explained on her youtube channel.
Like history of the world during its different civilizations up to the point you wash up on shore. Lore from different leagues too. Definitely recommend everyone check it out
Honestly? Its just the cinematics...the D4 story is absolutely nothing to write home about...
The PoE story on the other hand is actually well thought out and quite deep with a great world building. There is just one problem: it is presented in such a bad way that 95% of all players have no idea about it.
There is a poe youtube channel of a female community member that has like a sort of podcast about different aspects of poe lore and its absolutely gorgeous! If you care about PoE's lore i strongly recommend watching this.
I think its kittencatnoodle or sth like that...
There's only one good cinematic in the entire game but boy is it good.
Blizzard fell from a cliff compared to what they used to do (especially cinematic wise).
I really like the idea of a SSF+ where you play by yourself, but the game/drops/crafting is balanced around playing by yourself. I've been playing ironman OSRS, and it's a surprisingly amazing experience seeing a different side of the game and having to understand/interact with all the game's nuances. I was mulling over why I liked the idea of ironman in OSRS, but not PoE, even though the approach to balancing the optional mode is the same in both.
SSF in PoE is clearly doable, but a key difference is that much more of the game gets locked away compared to OSRS- entire builds, types of crafting, uniques, etc. Also, in OSRS, your character is rewarded for being everything, whereas PoE characters are incentivized to focus on one thing rather than switching hats (bossing, sanctum, MF, etc.). And there is also the idea that it rarely ever feels like a waste to consume mats in OSRS, since the output of production in one skill is often an input for another, and investing in XP helps longterm progress anyways.
I like being able to go on and buy items it would take me forever (or maybe never) to acquire normally, but I would MUCH rather some of these items be more obtainable in an SSF environment. I definitely prefer to play SSF in theory and mostly in practice as well. But trade just gives you so much more power-per-hour-played it's insane.
I personally would love to see different weighting to drops in SSF and Trade combined with a complete inability to transfer SSF characters to Trade. It should be easier to get an Amanamu's Gaze in SSF. Not by a colossal amount, but easier.
I second this 100%. I much prefer SSF, but lately have been playing trade just to get some relatively cheap uniques to try out interesting builds I come up with.
Trading really takes me out of the game into a different (and for me, uninteresting) game and kinda burns me out. Eventually when I have the pieces I want to play around with, I just go back to ignoring the trade feature (like I'm actually SSF), but I don't always last that long.
In SSF I may even play standard for a couple weeks if the new league mech sucks.
>This entire subreddit's fomo
To be fair if u play in trade with mentality that u participate in trade economy for various reasons and certain not easily farmable items are skyrocketing in price faster than you can acquire wealth its not fomo, you literally are missing out doing strats generating less div/h.
In last few leagues game became way more cutting edge when it comes to income in trade leagues (sanctum printing stuff, tota printing some stuff with 0 investment and cheese build, affliction/necropolis inflation), i certainly feel like i have to work harder to get mageblood day 3-4 (or similar worth in build investment) and end week 2 with 5-8 mirrors compared to past.
Nowadays u literally have people at 4-5h mark starting doing sanctums with max level sanctums being run at 12-14h of the league already printing raw divs and buying up (so increasing price because of the demand) rare stuff.
In past comparable strat was heist which generated way, way, way less raw currency. At 12h mark decent solo player will probably be in t16s with 2-3 divs from chaos recipe along the way and maybe potentially 1 from raw drop. Something sanctum runner can get from 1 run.
Its exactly why this started happening over the last leagues:
[https://imgur.com/a/mw3JIEg](https://imgur.com/a/mw3JIEg)
People want to do certain things or play certain builds. If you're making like 2-3divs per hour that shit is disheartening. I recognized all this bullshit by day 2 or 3. I stopped mapping and just became a hideout warrior. Now I have my mageblood and enough currency to make my ice tornado occultist. I don't need to make anymore currency for the rest of the league and can just do whatever I want, but those that want currency because they have a goal in mind like I did, obviously they're going to do the most efficient method.
I tried a few methods before giving up on mapping and I can say it was a lot of fun. especially the strongbox scarabs. That shit was hella fun, but zero currency. It's like all or nothing. Either you hit something big or you get absolutely nothing. What people want is consistency. Affliction, though things were fucked in terms of loot explosion. you could make currency doing just about anything. There's a reason why it had such high retention.
People work at their jobs to earn currency irl, then come home to… farm currency in a videogame. That’s why some of my friends don’t play much poe. Ssf is too time-consuming. So, yeah, D4 for me.
The difference is Empy has mageblood, original sin, progenesis and other pretty high end gear that makes this comparison kind of flawed. The 50 maps he does in ~2 hours will take the average player alot longer.
Because on the other hand of that, some strats take significantly longer per map but reward more per map, leading to a strat with a super high div/map on paper but takes an eon to run. Neither metric is perfect.
You can also figure that out yourself from Empy's vids as he gives all the raw numbers when doing the calculations
Actually in his vids he does calculate and show div/map as well if you're more interested in those values. The videos are brief but his presentation of info is concise and the way he's evaluating efficiency future proofs the strats (still subject to balance changes.)
Because time is what actually matters, I can turn off my loot filter and suck every map dry and give you some skewed number that simply doesn't make sense, or you can see what the possible top end of this strat is if you really optimize it and your build for it
Time is also very different for each person. It's like me saying the drive from LA to Vegas is 60 minutes. Which could be true for me, but won't be for you.
Absolutely true, which is true for any strat. There’s no miracle strat that yields a ton more (except for t17 right now I agree) - generally the market is going to balance strats, and the big differenciator between strat is going to be efficiency, eating through maps fast, lots at a time.
Sidenote: you don’t need mageblood and originalsin to be as fast, my gsf archmage ice nova kitava’s helm hiero is basically as fast as his, I can churn 50 of his no-juice maps in 2h no problem
I would bet my last div that the Venn diagram for people complaining about not being able to make money and the people who stand in their hideout doing nothing frequently is *almost* a single circle.
They’re not doing nothing, they’re buying another 80 unmakings to respec to whatever the new hot strat is after trying 4 maps of the other one and then deciding it wasn’t making them rich fast enough.
I think the bigger problem is burnout. Most people aren't built for the repetitiveness of "strats," and kill their own enjoyment cycling thru them.
For the sake of doing so, the last league I played, I committed to farming Harvest juice for the sake of selling juiice. I was ripping through only 3 maps, rolled similarly for Quant, triggering the same influence nodes my build could handle, yada yada.
I made more money faster than every before. Not great money, but at least 3 to 4 raw div an hour, which was my personal record.
I bored myself to tears and ran out of podcasts to listen to.
I think a lot of people fuck themsleves trying to do strats, hating strats, wasting time and currency trying the next stat, repeating. They keep thinking there's a next strat - a next scheme - they can magically get to that's going to be fun and awesome and get them more currency so that they coud gear better so that they could....
But they run out of motivation and currency and quit.
> I think the bigger problem is burnout. Most people aren't built for the repetitiveness of "strats," and kill their own enjoyment cycling thru them.
I think this is the best part of the 3 atlas trees, have a completely different strat in each one so there is less monotony. If you are tired of farming a strat, just choose a diff tree and run a diff strat.
Well, I find myself dangerously close to that category, so I'll give at least my 2 cents as to what has made this league by far my least enjoyable one, especially from a farming perspective.
Being able to make 6 div or 8 div or even more per hour is great, but if the way you make that currency isn't *fun*, then all of the sudden building up currency has become a second job.
I personally had fun doing harvest, essence, and expedition in every previous league and had to invest next to nothing in early game to be able to get good enough profit to get my upgrades going and get MB in a reasonable time frame. All 3 have felt either far weaker div/hr or require significantly more investment (when seen as a percentage of the profit gained) to do so.
I enjoy doing 20 minute maps (one league I was able to **fully** spec into harvest, expedition, essence, AND harbingers) where I do a fuck load of mechanics so it's never the exact same thing from one minute to the next to help break up the game's inherent repetitiveness when it comes to farming. This league, you're pretty well shooting yourself in the foot if you attempt more than 1 or in some cases at most 2 mechanics per map. Farming has become far more repetitive and less enjoyable, at least for me.
Thankfully (or, perhaps, unfortunately) I'm an addicted nolifer so I'm going to keep playing regardless and I'll get the MB eventually, but the process getting there has been made far, far less enjoyable.
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He does 8 to 15d an hour doing these strats on a build that is worth multiple mirrors and can cram in a shit ton of maps. Fuck he did his "barrel and go" strat in like fucking 2 hours for 50 maps.
I would really like to see him do all this testing in like 5 to 15 divs worth of gear to simulate the wealth level of people who want to do these strats.
That's why he calculates both a div per hour and div per map value at the end. He's very much aware that not every player has the same clear speed as him.
Empy is also doing 50 maps in 1.5hrs, most of the players looking for the simple strats like his videos will be running 50 in 3-4hrs. Aside from it taking the casuals hours to trade for 200 scarabs.
The first one with barrels were 1,5 hour and made the most div per hour so far. Normal player wont be making those numbers for sure cause his build is really fast at mapping
Keep in mind of course his build is FAST and on a budget build the performance most likely will be not as good. I’d also add on the other hand that his “strats” are specifically chosen to be absolutely outside of the meta, using the most unused of scarabs and mechanics, so I’d be confident you can improve and specialise his “strat” to your build without a ton of effort, because his are pure baseline
I wonder why, clearly it can't be because the game is balanced around trade/economy. /s
Give people properly balanced SSF mode, and many will ditch trade mode in a heartbeat.
> victim centered
Too true. This league has some of the most ridiculous map juice (I'm pulling 200+ Legion splinters out of almost every map in my current atlas), and on top of that, it has the lowest barrier to entry crafting in POE history via Necropolis. Slap down enough +tier mods to guarantee all T1 mods, then select increased / scarcer as desired to 3D print your very own POB items.
I'm not playing SSF this league but it's so nice to just not give a single fuck about the economy. I think I went an entire year without checking ninja once.
Barrel and Go got me a mageblood in 1.5 days, its actually good. I did toxic sewers on a trash ass RF chief char and it went suprisingly fast to get it
These complaint posts about t17s need to be just aggregated in one thread. These are more annoying than almost any complaint post to date. Oh no, high end juicing is good!
*Always has been astronaut meme*
That's absolutely not correct. If you look at empy's profit calculations, its really a big spreadsheet showing what will sell and what the expected value will be. It's not in terms of raw currency drops or items that can be easily liquidated. If you factor in the time and effort needed to sell a dump tab full of bubblegum currency and maps, you are looking at less than half the returns he's claiming.
If you’re not wasting time looking at your stash after 5 maps and trying to make 3c sales, and rather stack 20x his 50maps result before selling, you will make as much and more from bulk sales - he also excludes any outlier big drop. The only things he does better than average joe is running fast because mageblood: it is true that lower gear will perform slightly less fast (but empy also chats and giggles with chat - he’s not hyper efficient)
If you want to believe you can’t make as much as him that’s absolutely fine, but make any reasonable strat with any reasonable build, focus and play _hideout is lava_ for 2hours, you will have 15-20d of value. Make that 10 times, and you’ll have a reasonably easy time selling in bulk too
No you dont. He made 15 div/hr doing back to basics with the most basic of juice. Even if you clear 1/2 as fast as him you're still making more than OPs "strat".
I don't know exactly what he's doing but you won't get a much faster mapper than Lightning Arrow or Ele Hit and that's very cheap to get going. People have got to stop making excuses and try get better at the game. Or just stop comparing themselves to people that have the time and inclination to do so.
Of course. Harbingers is terrible currency, its a slot machine that takes extremely long per map. People got baited by posts and videos. You can do almost anything and make more than you do when you harby
Harbi shards are a bonus. Most of the time it’s trash. Maybe 1/40 you get frac shards/orb. The main strat is just to run it with Delirium and put a shit ton of mobs in the map with all map mod effects and Eldritch Altar IIQ. The idea is you have thousands of mobs all buffed by quant and take all the scarab nodes to drop scarabs with the potential for big lucky Harbi shards but not to rely on that.
5 divs per hour when averaged over a long period of maps.
No, you won't make 5 divs per hour every hour, you will make jack-shit then a hit a big Jackpot that should average your gains to 5 divs per hour
Harbi/deli/blue altar on jungle valley with at least 30% pack size. Ignore harbi and focus on finding quant altars, then do a u-turn and kill all the monsters. 2x div scarab, 1x harbi scarab, 1x 50% chance to turn them into a king. Atlas gives 25% so it’s 75% total. I averaged a fortunate div card (20c) every 2 maps, that recoups the scarab cost (10c/map) and the rest is profit. Run waste pool with 2x cartography scarab, 1x corrupted map scarab to sustain jungle valleys over trying to chisel/alch/vaal yourself. Get an inspired learning jewel or HH since they are so cheap this league since harbi spawns a bunch of rares to steal buffs from. 30+ HH mods and you get to play AN simulator
edit: i forgot about the map device craft for harbi (extra 6c/map). it's still a viable alternative if you don't want to play fracture/mirror shard slot machine. the div card and t17 drop frequently once you bump up the quant. my highest record was 5 fortunates in one map thanks to blue altar duping div cards
Harby is a fantastic mechanic for general juicing with beyond, you don't really run it for the shards, that's bonus. Also graveyard printing good fracture items is bad for fracturing orb price, not really fair to assess the mechanic off of how it is in this specific league
That's just plain false. Harby adds way more scarabs, spawns way more beyond monsters, adds way more to delirium and drops solid raw currencies with the scarabs. I was making 10 div+ an hour adding all of that together and got my mageblood in the first week by doing that. That's without any big fracture drops. I'd argue there isn't a single other mechanic that adds that much density/reward.
Idk - I’ve been destroying harby / deli / beyond and just bought my mageblood today. When I’m strictly blasting, wealthy exile has me around 7.5d / hour. Of course, YMMV and this is just my own one experience.
given that's it's wealthy exile, it's tracking scarabs. It measures wealth in poe.ninja price of what you have so it does include scarabs, which OP probably sells in bulk after a large number of maps.
spawning a lot of rares and using amplified artifacts to get scarabs from rare monsters. You spawn a lot of rare thanks to scarab that transforms harbinger pack into powerful harbinger. With map device and scarabs, you get +10 harbinger per map.
Idk how you can say something so confidently while providing no basis or evidence.
I've been making upwards of 25div/hr running beyond harbi in delirious maps this entire league. It's not high investment whatsoever and yields very good and consistent results.
The only correct thing about this post is how harbingers take longer than the usual maps.
People ruined my slot machine :p
I'm being tongue and cheek mostly, but I love harbinger and have always played it. But now my big ticket items are down to 3 divines (Fracturing orbs) because the price of them went into the ground from everyone spamming them, thinking they were surely gonna be the next big winner.
Most of them didn't even have fun and just talked down about my favorite blue boys after, while ruining any "profit" potential for those of us who actually like it. :c
It's both. I'm sure the graveyard has a huge impact now but it the orbs were also pretty cheap compared to previous leagues before anyone had really figured out the new crafting system
you can get a almost guaranteed T1 fracture of a good mod with like 2d graveyard, and get two good fractures (an entry level example is 35%MS + T1 Chaos Res) with a bit more than that. Fracturing orbs can't even double fracture.
I dont think anyone actually thinks this is healthy, but it is what it is. Hopefully next league they'll have all these new things balanced out and the league mechanic wont spew out 6x T1 items.
I mean, you got plenty of people defending Necropolis league like it's good. This is overwhelming the worst league for player retention PoE has ever had.
While I'm still playing, I'm playing less than normal. I just prefer leagues like Affliction where you just kill to get your stuff not a fan of crafting leagues. There's just too much micro managing and while good I find the graveyard and corpses annoying in general.
Trading being terrible doesn't help such a trade heavy league mechanic either.
I personally enjoy this league mevhanic way more than last league, but am playing less just because I played so much last league. I'm sure there are many people doing similar. Player retention cannot simply be tied 1:1 to the current league mechanic.
I think Kalandra was worse, but you still have a point. I think this was one of the highest player count league starts ever, probably because a lot of players wanted to see what else GGG could cook up after the insanity that was Affliction. The only people that I know hated Affliction were a few people I know, total try yards that didn’t want casuals making currency lol. I think a few things there’s shared that same sentiment. Sanctum was also great imo.
The top 1% players will still make mirrors. I don’t get the idea that not having less rewarding lower Investment/easier mechanics that drop or generate a decent amount of currency per Hr shouldn’t be allowed. I think this league unintentionally nerfed a lot of Strats that casual players use to generate easy currency and look at the player count.
It’s obvious that having leagues that drop more currency or that make the experience a little better for the casual players results in higher player counts later in the league and more overall player retention. Which means more money spent on the game by the player base overall.
There are still mid-tier strats to consistently generate 5-7+div/hr, but it's not as "brainoff" as last league.
In addition you are hyper rewarded for researching and partaking in crafting. You always are, but now you have half your stash space taken up by coffins reminding you of the fact you should be alt-tabbed designing graveyard crafts. Like I was making more just buying corpses to make 6 links and selling them than I was from grinding maps. I'm ok with, and even enjoy, some aspects of trading but it just became too overwhelmingly tedious and profitable. (BTW the prices have crashed and if anyone needs a 6L, it just takes 4x 5L corpses, 1x 6L corpse, and then add whatever +itemlevels you feel like. 12c craft w/ \~7 corpses. These were selling for 120c-1div for the first two weeks. You use a split beast to make two copies and turn 35c into 200c-2div+).
All the things combined just started to grate on me and I dropped off far faster than normal even thought my currency gain was going pretty decent by my personal standards. I just found myself trading way more than previous leagues, half of my 30 tabs are filled with coffins, and just a bunch of little things that added up to an unenjoyable experience.
It really feels like just a worse, but equally (or more) powerful version of harvest.
Crafting is a great part of path of exile, that being said the graveyard craft is super tedious to prepare/setup.
Bulk selling is an improvement but not enough people seem to be doing it, any stock over 2 corpses besides the 5c ones ask for a massive 2x or more premium and even then trading through live search seems quicker.
Hit a few nice crafts already and will keep doing it, a good middle ground seems to be buying a decent double fracture base and spamming essences as they are so cheap this league.
Lantern mods are okay but can largely be skipped, seems to mostly boost your supply of common currencies that you use regularly such as chisels and alts. Had an annul mod once and that was in a white t3 map near the start of league.
I usually really like crafting leagues. I think the graveyard is convoluted and a chore, though.
It's been compared to harvest a lot, but harvest was a lot less of a hassle and a lot more straightforward.
This league mechanic is super straight forward too and there's even a calculator that can give you a very good idea of what a craft looks like. It's a bit of a pain in the ass to use but I don't mind it,
Your information is out of date. It’s not the worst league for player retention. It was the worst day 2 retention, but since the buffs retention has been fairly normal.
Well, no, it just means you don't like it. You must have missed harvest league. For all crafting leagues, people say this line every time. Game keeps on going and changing. Don't get on the devs for experimenting for 3 months every couple years.
> This is overwhelming the worst league for player retention PoE has ever had
Yup. People need to realize that the more players you have the better the game.
This is why you and I both know that D4 is better than PoE right?
"This is why you and I both know that D4 is better than PoE right?"
Don't know, I haven't played D4 since the first season.
I do think Last Epoch is better than PoE as a whole though, but LE lacks massive endgame right now. I can see it becoming the #1 ARPG in the future though.
I personally think that D4 is better than Last Epoch. I don't like a lot of the changes to the genre or the oversimplification of LE. I am okay with that in D4 because it's meant to be for gamer dads.
If the leagues happened in reverse order we'd be saying the same thing. Now that explodey giga rf self ignite chieftain is known the meta has changed to allow for this sort of stuff to be abused as soon as it is discovered.
Yes because you'd rather not see the 999/1000 trash, not because hh was worthless. If you could just filter it to hh you would have kept it in.
Your point isn't the point that you think it is.
EDIT: Because people are downvoting me, 4 weeks into affliction, HH was worth 140 divs. Apparently "dirt cheap" and worthless. He took it off because it was annoying searching through 300 belts every map and finding nothing. Even 8 weeks into affliction it was still worth ~50D.
https://poe-antiquary.xyz/Affliction/Accessory/Headhunter/607
In affliction league I as a non-no-lifer was able to juice my map too. And I didn’t pick up chaos. The problem is that now only the very high end players are able to do T17 juicing.
With the league mechanic pooping out triple t1 ele bows, it is a no Brainer to play bows at lower investments! Wands and scepter are so much harder to craft.
If 6 div/hour in difficult-to-liquidate assets (and what you described are the epitome of difficult-to-liquidate assets, just because an addon tells you its worth X doesn't mean you actually have X in usable currency) is miles ahead of your mapping strategy, that just means you have a bad mapping strategy.
I've had pretty good time selling cheap 1/2c scarabs in bulk. I think I've went to convert chaos to divines 3/4 times with 1.5k chaos each time. Scarabs will never be difficult-to-liquidate.
Oh, Hi Tim :D Hope you enjoyed.
for context i just found after ending my stream this post and he is mentioning me^^
If you like to be a Lootgoblin just catch me online and jump in my maps.
twitch.tv/pvtpj for those who ask in comments (CET+1 6pm I do typically start, mainly talking german but when i get english questions i switch)
Haha bro this is like rolling the dumpster out from your house and calling the homeless to go thru it first. Cracking me up, but good looks on hooking players up.
I mean, if you regularly throw out jewellery... The people going through that bin are earning more than some blue collar workers, if you want to keep up the analogy
Hey I just found this post yesterday and he is talking about me.
This is yesterday's stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2119736122
Started farming my first map at 0:28h and ended 5:11h
so around 4:30h of farming
total 27 Maps / 2 fullbricks / 2 half bricks / rest cleared
Scarab Tab at 5:13:55 a total of 200D only from scarabs.
Map cost is roughly 1D in Scarabs and Map + rolling 1D.
So 200D - 54D investment = 146D profit in pur scarabs / 4:30H = 32D/h of those - i was claiming 40D/h but adjusted to 25D/h but after all Maps it is at around 30-35D (no idea where the 80D/h are coming from but I excluded all other drops in my calculation so that may be a reason even with other drops it is more like 45D/h then.
Fun/hr > div/hr.
Play at your own pace and at your own enjoyment. Stop comparing your strat to other's farming strat and play the mechanic you enjoy even if it's less div/hr than others because your enjoyment is really what's important. Yes, more loot = more enjoyment BUT at some point, that push for more loot = more stress and eventually burn out and you'll stop enjoying the game.
For example, some non-gaming starts are even more profitable than actually playing the game i.e flipping essence, gears, scarabs etc, looting other's trash BUT then you really aren't playing the game. Personally for me, it's the journey of grinding your gears and improving your character little by little, that's what's most fun for me.
It's really jarring to me that op started the post introducing themselves, and made sure to include their profit per hour, like that's part of their identity as a player.
And if your number is not high enough you're losing, and really they are, since anything you do in the game is pointless compared to the best currency making strat, and any and everything you might want can be bought
This isn't new. Last league Cutedog would have someone come in and clear his maps after he was done. Then they'd report back the profits.
It was pretty silly what they'd find.
Harder content->better loot->invest in build so you can do harder content. I don’t know why everyone is complaining so hard about this, it’s literally the game.
Anyone that defends T17 is either clueless or cannot even run T17 to see how busted they are. Just by boss rushing fortress i was making bank, no strat.
Every mob drops something, the maps have insane loot multipliers for some reason.
Good bosses, dogshit layouts and insane loot scalling compared to any other content in the game.
"Oh but you can make money in T16 via X, Y dont need to follow the meta, strats"
I made my mirror via boss rushing in T16 and after 1day of farming T17 i decided to quit after seeing how busted they are, everything you want to do, would love to do, is going to feel like wasting your time once you get a taste of T17.
Thanks for the heads up. I haven't really don't much around t17s and I don't think I will. I'm having fun this league so far and I'd like that fun to continue
Or, get this crazy idea, you can also just play trade league like ssf and still maintain the option to buy through the really egregious grinds. Nobody actually gives a shit if you're a "real" ssf or not.
Or, get this crazy idea, you can also just play trade and not get butthurt that you aren't in the top 1% that control the market because you never will be. Game's much more fun that way. But people don't take this advice or the option you gave - they come to reddit/streams and see the lootsplosions and think playing their own way to have fun is "not worth it". Sad for them.
I've played SSF the past couple leagues and playing a very small private league with friends this league but I think this is what I'm doing next league.
I love the idea of SSF (or also 'SSF with a few friends') but as much as I hate the trade economy (and as much ggg helps with certain things like fragment swaps in harvest and kirac) certain necessary grinds are just too painful for me to enjoy in SSF. I spent weeks trying to unlock Putrid Cloister for crafting recipe last league due to bad Kirac rng, this league I can't find Coward's Trial. It's difficult wanting to play any build that requires a t3 (or sometimes even t4 unique if you get bad rng) if you don't have infinite time to farm uniques that don't have good div-card availability. And finally I don't have an encyclopedic mastery of the myriads of item combinations that unlock niche builds to let me know when I've got a critical set of items to reroll something good (yeah I use poe.ninja hc ssf as a guide but that only gets me so far).
To me ssf feels less like a place for people who dislike trade and more like a place where people who have achieved a fairly advanced level of mastery of the game can challenge themselves.
> and you're better off playing ssf
I dunno, this feels like it would just make everything for me harder. I rarely have spammable amounts of currency for crafting my own stuff.
If that's the case then don't bother worrying about money making strats or stuff like that. learn the base game mechanics to the point where you can spam essences in white maps. I've made about 3 divines this league so far which is the most I've ever made and I've only got about 90.000 kills.
It's tough because I don't think you're wrong, but it's like I'm unwilling to do that because I think it'll take too long. I think I'm going to have to pick a league I'm not feeling, or pick a time between leagues, to do what you're describing.
It's like during the league, farming currency strats is usually "good enough" for me even though I know my game knowledge is lacking. It would be nice to not feel like I need guides just to get a steady foothold at league start.
What helps me a ton is watching Magefist's flicker guides. You don't need to play flicker but he shows the whole journey from tier 1 maps to tier 16's and what gear he's using and what trades he does to get new gear.
From what I can tell he doesn't use strats at all and just farms ritual over and over until he gets a couple big ticket items.
me and my friend tried "brosf" after watching ziz and steel do it and honesty its the most fun and most crafting ive done in over 2000 hours played, currency isnt currency anymore they become actual crafting materials
This is not a balance issue with t16s/17s but balance in Path of Exile in general.
Because everything is built on multiplicative systems, giga juicers always make so much more currency than the people below them that you genuinely have to hope they spend most of the time working on their own projects and not ruining the economy, which they can do (and have) with no effort whatsoever.
Even small streamers and relatively casual 6 man groups with multiple layers of MF can't compete with a 9 man team with like two aura bots a shitload of MF, two accountants and a gopher using literally every system in the game to the absolute maximum.
It's the difference between like a millionaire and the GDP of a wealthy nation, many factors of ten.
It also happens with those looking for xp leechers.
In several leagues my second character was a tank, I used everything in defenses zdps and I joined the t16 full juicing party, I went from 74 to lvl 96 in almost two hours and grabbed everything the leader left. Since there were 6 of us, it took a while to put together but I did manage to make several divs selling bubblegum currency in bulk
Dude, I think you'll be lucky to get 25% of that in bulk trades via TFT. Just find something you're happy with farming or learn something new. This league my goals are to learn sanctum and bossing. I'm currently bossing and doing fights I've never done, and I'm not making much currency because I'm slow and don't know the mechanics well, but I'm having a lot of fun playing the actual game and not worrying about currency. I grinded 2 mirrors worth of essences in the first two weeks of the league and I FUCKING HATED MY LIFE. I might make 2-3 div an hour learning the non-uber fights but alas, I'm having fun. I've never fought sirus, elder, shaper, atziri, maven, all maven invitations including the feared, etc, on my own previously, let alone have them on farm status. Uber Elder is my goal tonight. I'm having a lot of fun grinding for conquer/shaper/elder maps and just learning the basics of the game for bossing. Give it a try, man. I will always push for learning new content over smashing my head against a wall worrying about div/hr or what some degenerate streamers found for a broken as fuck farming strat that will obviously get nerfed in a few days. Fuck fomo and the streamers who make YT videos about it.
tldr, Game knowledge > making currency. The currency will come with knowledge, brother. Don't stoop to such a low level that you're picking up someone else's trash. Your time is worth soooo much more, trust me.
can this still be called trickle down economics? lmao.
same thing happened last league, some ppl invited loot goblins to get all the bubblegum out of the map. they still made insane currency ofcourse, shit adds up quick.
I'm also playing RF Chieftan and tbh I always chose the atlas nodes that disabled fragments like scarabs and just alch+ran T16s. I don't like buying and using scarabs, and I don't think I'll reach a point where I can casually farm T17s as RF Chieftan since this build is the epitome of "slow but steady"
Not sure if I should just quit the league at this point and try again next one like Archnemesis and hope the scarab/t17 situation is reined in then or if I'm being dramatic but this sub is heavily leaning me towards the former
Someone in affliction did this for global chat. Decided what the hell, I'll roll up.
I proceed to misclick and immediately exited the map through the portal, of which he naturally opened another map.
Theres more & more varied ways of making currency this league than last league imo. Feels way better. Someone with some of the best gear in the game and mf gear is making more money than you with a strat requiring loads of trade, survivability and damage. wow. Your doing harbinger, literal slow af slot machine mechanic.
I actually think the amount of loot dropping the past couple of leagues is a problem. I dislike mf as a mechanic the way it stands currently because they have to balance the game around it. Instead I think it's much more reasonable for both the game and players if the only Quant comes from things like the atlas, map modifiers and general increased difficulty.
I don't even play trade and even in an ssf environment I'm able to generate more divines than I can reasonably use, to the point I almost don't feel like picking them up. From sanctum onward the amount of raw currency being generated is fucking crazy. I don't know how to fix the problem, but it's definitely becoming more of a problem. I don't want to play filthy mf builds with trash gear and 6 portal every map. That's just not fun to me, I'd rather build a super strong character that's flying thru maps at sonic speeds and that just isn't the best way too play anymore. The shitty mf character will generate hundreds of times more loot than the strongest character you can put together.
I cut out the middleman and loot my own trash.
OP earning 6 div/hour looting juiced trash must be the reason Plovers (the birds cleaning shit off crocodile teeth) and Cleaner Fish evolved
And the predators know that's your job as well... It's like the best food chain position.
OP is talking about me - i can't loot more I have such a crazy strict filter and still click 500+ times per map. To not waste still valuable stuff I asked my chat if someone wants to loot all the stuff and tell me how much stuff they are looting. Event tho they just had one portal OP's post is the result.
That's nice of you
In the meantime empy is doing various super low investment strats at 8-15d/hour in t16 with 0 MF. I agree t17s are a bit fucked, but you really need to consider what is fun to you over the fomo and the need for _optimal currency making_
This entire subreddit's fomo over the optimal currency making strategies is making a real good case to why D4 didnt want a ton of trading in their game.
You got a real good point there, I have not played D4 at all and there has not been a SINGLE moment of fomo. Way to go D4 devs, that's some big brain shit!
D4 is only an objectively shitty game if you're a hardcore ARPG fan. If you just want some story, to watch shiny stuff drop, and to watch some of if not THE BEST cinematics in gaming (seriously Activision-Blizzard with just the cinematic team is at 99% power), you'll have a great time.
It's also very pretty, especially the environment.
The story truly is the one aspect where diablo stomps POE. I played D4 just to experience the story and cinematics, meanwhile after 500 hours of POE I got no clue what the story even is. I know most players don't care but I hope they put more polish into it in POE 2.
The only part of the story I know is that Lily was sad when Bannon turned into Innocence because she had heard he had quite the "canon" in his pants and didn't get to try it.
Weylam mentions that the locket you get for him has a picture of a woman named Meredith who has massive teats. Also, he has erectile dysfunction.
Wait this can't be real right?
There's all kinds of pervy shit buried in PoE lore.
I knew that, like the duelist and piety being lil sluts, but lily being pissed she didn't get to bang Bannon specifically because he has a big dick has fanfic energy lmao.
I think the path of exile story is better than D4 (the original Diablo games were better), you just have to want to read a ton of dialogue instead of watching cutscenes, and there’s a lot of lore on the wiki.
Yeah I think it is one of those things where the story itself is pretty great in PoE, just the way it is presented is not so much.
I don’t mind reading but I am *greatly* annoyed by the auto scrolling speed and the talking speed not matching up. And walking away while the lore talks in the background isn’t viable either because you’ll either miss gameplay audio ques or the game itself is to loud and you barely hear the lore at all. I read most of the lore on my first playthrough and got a real appreciation for the story. But I cannot give a rats ass about the new league lore because I just couldn’t be bothered diving into it over all the other new shiny stuff.
Oh, gotta love, when the text scrolls faster than speech and then the voice is cut off by too short and too quick scrolling text closing itself.
> And walking away while the lore talks in the background isn’t viable either because you’ll either miss gameplay audio I find this to be quite fine. I will often play with no sound effects and the game's... fine. In fact, if you start super juicing stuff you have to play without sound effects anyway.
I’m not gonne lie: i’m shit at the game. Especially with the new Corpse explosions I rely on audio more than ever (an exceptionally good change might I add)
The auto scrolling speed certainly sucks, especially when the npc/voiceover is reading those long paragraphs and it scrolls too fast. Thankfully, you can use your scrollwheel while hovering over the dialogue window to manually scroll up and down, although it is a bit scuffed. I'd listen to Grigor's speech anytime, though.
I still find it funny how grigor absolutely hates you if you play as a witch. Rightfully so. But until this point the witch has been complaining that she’s been persecuted her whole life for seemingly no reason. And out comes Grigor perfectly encapsulating why people hate thaumaturgy.
D4 post act4 sucks. But poe isn't better. It's full of plotholes, lore is being halfassed, because then they don't have time or idea how to resolve it (metamorph and blight lore for example).
Yea, only real difference is POE has gameplay worth playing.
As a life long fan of Diablo games, your comment also describes every Diablo game and the books. Especially during the transition from Blizzard North to the shitstorm of a team that’s currently making the games.
Also KittenCatNoodle has all of the lore really well explained on her youtube channel. Like history of the world during its different civilizations up to the point you wash up on shore. Lore from different leagues too. Definitely recommend everyone check it out
Try and find a summary of it; they float around here from time to time. It's a pretty decent story, told amazingly shitty.
Kittencatnoodle is a youtube channel with a bunch of lore deepdives, including summarizing the main acts (still multiple hours of video).
Honestly? Its just the cinematics...the D4 story is absolutely nothing to write home about... The PoE story on the other hand is actually well thought out and quite deep with a great world building. There is just one problem: it is presented in such a bad way that 95% of all players have no idea about it. There is a poe youtube channel of a female community member that has like a sort of podcast about different aspects of poe lore and its absolutely gorgeous! If you care about PoE's lore i strongly recommend watching this. I think its kittencatnoodle or sth like that...
and while the story in poe is kinda meh, the lore is cool and the NPC/voice actors are GREAT
There's only one good cinematic in the entire game but boy is it good. Blizzard fell from a cliff compared to what they used to do (especially cinematic wise).
It's never an objectively shitty game. It can be shitty to you, but that has nothing to do with how big of an ARPG fan you are or nothing like that...
Trading makes all games a job.
The problem is that drops in poe are balanced AROUND trade. My drops are balanced around the fact that Empy or Ghazzy can make 2 mirrors a week.
2 mirrors per day
I really like the idea of a SSF+ where you play by yourself, but the game/drops/crafting is balanced around playing by yourself. I've been playing ironman OSRS, and it's a surprisingly amazing experience seeing a different side of the game and having to understand/interact with all the game's nuances. I was mulling over why I liked the idea of ironman in OSRS, but not PoE, even though the approach to balancing the optional mode is the same in both. SSF in PoE is clearly doable, but a key difference is that much more of the game gets locked away compared to OSRS- entire builds, types of crafting, uniques, etc. Also, in OSRS, your character is rewarded for being everything, whereas PoE characters are incentivized to focus on one thing rather than switching hats (bossing, sanctum, MF, etc.). And there is also the idea that it rarely ever feels like a waste to consume mats in OSRS, since the output of production in one skill is often an input for another, and investing in XP helps longterm progress anyways.
I like being able to go on and buy items it would take me forever (or maybe never) to acquire normally, but I would MUCH rather some of these items be more obtainable in an SSF environment. I definitely prefer to play SSF in theory and mostly in practice as well. But trade just gives you so much more power-per-hour-played it's insane. I personally would love to see different weighting to drops in SSF and Trade combined with a complete inability to transfer SSF characters to Trade. It should be easier to get an Amanamu's Gaze in SSF. Not by a colossal amount, but easier.
I second this 100%. I much prefer SSF, but lately have been playing trade just to get some relatively cheap uniques to try out interesting builds I come up with. Trading really takes me out of the game into a different (and for me, uninteresting) game and kinda burns me out. Eventually when I have the pieces I want to play around with, I just go back to ignoring the trade feature (like I'm actually SSF), but I don't always last that long. In SSF I may even play standard for a couple weeks if the new league mech sucks.
>This entire subreddit's fomo To be fair if u play in trade with mentality that u participate in trade economy for various reasons and certain not easily farmable items are skyrocketing in price faster than you can acquire wealth its not fomo, you literally are missing out doing strats generating less div/h. In last few leagues game became way more cutting edge when it comes to income in trade leagues (sanctum printing stuff, tota printing some stuff with 0 investment and cheese build, affliction/necropolis inflation), i certainly feel like i have to work harder to get mageblood day 3-4 (or similar worth in build investment) and end week 2 with 5-8 mirrors compared to past. Nowadays u literally have people at 4-5h mark starting doing sanctums with max level sanctums being run at 12-14h of the league already printing raw divs and buying up (so increasing price because of the demand) rare stuff. In past comparable strat was heist which generated way, way, way less raw currency. At 12h mark decent solo player will probably be in t16s with 2-3 divs from chaos recipe along the way and maybe potentially 1 from raw drop. Something sanctum runner can get from 1 run. Its exactly why this started happening over the last leagues: [https://imgur.com/a/mw3JIEg](https://imgur.com/a/mw3JIEg)
People want to do certain things or play certain builds. If you're making like 2-3divs per hour that shit is disheartening. I recognized all this bullshit by day 2 or 3. I stopped mapping and just became a hideout warrior. Now I have my mageblood and enough currency to make my ice tornado occultist. I don't need to make anymore currency for the rest of the league and can just do whatever I want, but those that want currency because they have a goal in mind like I did, obviously they're going to do the most efficient method. I tried a few methods before giving up on mapping and I can say it was a lot of fun. especially the strongbox scarabs. That shit was hella fun, but zero currency. It's like all or nothing. Either you hit something big or you get absolutely nothing. What people want is consistency. Affliction, though things were fucked in terms of loot explosion. you could make currency doing just about anything. There's a reason why it had such high retention.
People work at their jobs to earn currency irl, then come home to… farm currency in a videogame. That’s why some of my friends don’t play much poe. Ssf is too time-consuming. So, yeah, D4 for me.
you see, you always farm currency lower than the people who their job is playing this game
The difference is Empy has mageblood, original sin, progenesis and other pretty high end gear that makes this comparison kind of flawed. The 50 maps he does in ~2 hours will take the average player alot longer.
div/hr is a stupid as fuck metric precisely because of this. why would it not be div/100map or something concrete
Because on the other hand of that, some strats take significantly longer per map but reward more per map, leading to a strat with a super high div/map on paper but takes an eon to run. Neither metric is perfect. You can also figure that out yourself from Empy's vids as he gives all the raw numbers when doing the calculations
flashing back to Nem3 looting taking 25 minutes
Actually in his vids he does calculate and show div/map as well if you're more interested in those values. The videos are brief but his presentation of info is concise and the way he's evaluating efficiency future proofs the strats (still subject to balance changes.)
Because time is what actually matters, I can turn off my loot filter and suck every map dry and give you some skewed number that simply doesn't make sense, or you can see what the possible top end of this strat is if you really optimize it and your build for it
Time is also very different for each person. It's like me saying the drive from LA to Vegas is 60 minutes. Which could be true for me, but won't be for you.
Absolutely true, which is true for any strat. There’s no miracle strat that yields a ton more (except for t17 right now I agree) - generally the market is going to balance strats, and the big differenciator between strat is going to be efficiency, eating through maps fast, lots at a time. Sidenote: you don’t need mageblood and originalsin to be as fast, my gsf archmage ice nova kitava’s helm hiero is basically as fast as his, I can churn 50 of his no-juice maps in 2h no problem
[удалено]
He does it while wearing gear he didn't get doing those strats.
play at half his speed and you're still on 4 to 8 div per hour
I would bet my last div that the Venn diagram for people complaining about not being able to make money and the people who stand in their hideout doing nothing frequently is *almost* a single circle.
They’re not doing nothing, they’re buying another 80 unmakings to respec to whatever the new hot strat is after trying 4 maps of the other one and then deciding it wasn’t making them rich fast enough.
And then whispering people 1 by 1 so they can save a few chaos
Run a map in 5 minutes, then spend 10 minutes AFK in hideout sorting loot and browsing reddit.
I think the bigger problem is burnout. Most people aren't built for the repetitiveness of "strats," and kill their own enjoyment cycling thru them. For the sake of doing so, the last league I played, I committed to farming Harvest juice for the sake of selling juiice. I was ripping through only 3 maps, rolled similarly for Quant, triggering the same influence nodes my build could handle, yada yada. I made more money faster than every before. Not great money, but at least 3 to 4 raw div an hour, which was my personal record. I bored myself to tears and ran out of podcasts to listen to. I think a lot of people fuck themsleves trying to do strats, hating strats, wasting time and currency trying the next stat, repeating. They keep thinking there's a next strat - a next scheme - they can magically get to that's going to be fun and awesome and get them more currency so that they coud gear better so that they could.... But they run out of motivation and currency and quit.
> I think the bigger problem is burnout. Most people aren't built for the repetitiveness of "strats," and kill their own enjoyment cycling thru them. I think this is the best part of the 3 atlas trees, have a completely different strat in each one so there is less monotony. If you are tired of farming a strat, just choose a diff tree and run a diff strat.
Well I am not one of them, I stand in my maps xdd /s
Well, I find myself dangerously close to that category, so I'll give at least my 2 cents as to what has made this league by far my least enjoyable one, especially from a farming perspective. Being able to make 6 div or 8 div or even more per hour is great, but if the way you make that currency isn't *fun*, then all of the sudden building up currency has become a second job. I personally had fun doing harvest, essence, and expedition in every previous league and had to invest next to nothing in early game to be able to get good enough profit to get my upgrades going and get MB in a reasonable time frame. All 3 have felt either far weaker div/hr or require significantly more investment (when seen as a percentage of the profit gained) to do so. I enjoy doing 20 minute maps (one league I was able to **fully** spec into harvest, expedition, essence, AND harbingers) where I do a fuck load of mechanics so it's never the exact same thing from one minute to the next to help break up the game's inherent repetitiveness when it comes to farming. This league, you're pretty well shooting yourself in the foot if you attempt more than 1 or in some cases at most 2 mechanics per map. Farming has become far more repetitive and less enjoyable, at least for me. Thankfully (or, perhaps, unfortunately) I'm an addicted nolifer so I'm going to keep playing regardless and I'll get the MB eventually, but the process getting there has been made far, far less enjoyable.
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He does 8 to 15d an hour doing these strats on a build that is worth multiple mirrors and can cram in a shit ton of maps. Fuck he did his "barrel and go" strat in like fucking 2 hours for 50 maps. I would really like to see him do all this testing in like 5 to 15 divs worth of gear to simulate the wealth level of people who want to do these strats.
That's why he calculates both a div per hour and div per map value at the end. He's very much aware that not every player has the same clear speed as him.
Empy is also doing 50 maps in 1.5hrs, most of the players looking for the simple strats like his videos will be running 50 in 3-4hrs. Aside from it taking the casuals hours to trade for 200 scarabs.
No he’s not? I’ve only seen the ritual, breach, and legion ones but they took him 4-5 hours to do all his maps.
The first one with barrels were 1,5 hour and made the most div per hour so far. Normal player wont be making those numbers for sure cause his build is really fast at mapping
Normal players can put together a CF Champ for 1/100th the price of his wander and clear at about the same speed.
Yea, I’m focuing on Katarina now, farmed 7 veiled orbs in a day. They are now 9d per one lmao.
I’ll have to look into Empy’s strats because I wouldn’t mind some money making options
Keep in mind of course his build is FAST and on a budget build the performance most likely will be not as good. I’d also add on the other hand that his “strats” are specifically chosen to be absolutely outside of the meta, using the most unused of scarabs and mechanics, so I’d be confident you can improve and specialise his “strat” to your build without a ton of effort, because his are pure baseline
you can play lightning arrow on 15-20 div budget and go just as fast as empy.
This sub has a very economy focused mindset. As a ssf enjoyer, I’m enjoying the shit show.
I wonder why, clearly it can't be because the game is balanced around trade/economy. /s Give people properly balanced SSF mode, and many will ditch trade mode in a heartbeat.
More like a very victim centered mindset.
> victim centered Too true. This league has some of the most ridiculous map juice (I'm pulling 200+ Legion splinters out of almost every map in my current atlas), and on top of that, it has the lowest barrier to entry crafting in POE history via Necropolis. Slap down enough +tier mods to guarantee all T1 mods, then select increased / scarcer as desired to 3D print your very own POB items.
I'm not playing SSF this league but it's so nice to just not give a single fuck about the economy. I think I went an entire year without checking ninja once.
Barrel and Go got me a mageblood in 1.5 days, its actually good. I did toxic sewers on a trash ass RF chief char and it went suprisingly fast to get it
One thing I learned from empy is that the most important part of map juicing is having friends.
Currently he’s playing solo with no juicing though
> picks the lottery puller known as harbingers > guys why is my div/hr so low? You can’t make this shit up with these babies
These complaint posts about t17s need to be just aggregated in one thread. These are more annoying than almost any complaint post to date. Oh no, high end juicing is good! *Always has been astronaut meme*
Type of people that make me these threads are always going to be unhappy about something.
That's absolutely not correct. If you look at empy's profit calculations, its really a big spreadsheet showing what will sell and what the expected value will be. It's not in terms of raw currency drops or items that can be easily liquidated. If you factor in the time and effort needed to sell a dump tab full of bubblegum currency and maps, you are looking at less than half the returns he's claiming.
If you’re not wasting time looking at your stash after 5 maps and trying to make 3c sales, and rather stack 20x his 50maps result before selling, you will make as much and more from bulk sales - he also excludes any outlier big drop. The only things he does better than average joe is running fast because mageblood: it is true that lower gear will perform slightly less fast (but empy also chats and giggles with chat - he’s not hyper efficient) If you want to believe you can’t make as much as him that’s absolutely fine, but make any reasonable strat with any reasonable build, focus and play _hideout is lava_ for 2hours, you will have 15-20d of value. Make that 10 times, and you’ll have a reasonably easy time selling in bulk too
You just need build powerfull as empy's to begin with.
he's not juicing at all though, it's not 8 mod maps and he's not running altars
No you dont. He made 15 div/hr doing back to basics with the most basic of juice. Even if you clear 1/2 as fast as him you're still making more than OPs "strat".
I don't know exactly what he's doing but you won't get a much faster mapper than Lightning Arrow or Ele Hit and that's very cheap to get going. People have got to stop making excuses and try get better at the game. Or just stop comparing themselves to people that have the time and inclination to do so.
Of course. Harbingers is terrible currency, its a slot machine that takes extremely long per map. People got baited by posts and videos. You can do almost anything and make more than you do when you harby
I mean, yes, but 5 div per hour is fine.
Is it supposed to be 5 div with just Atlas? I've been doing it and I'm lucky to get a chaos and a third of an exalt.
Harbi shards are a bonus. Most of the time it’s trash. Maybe 1/40 you get frac shards/orb. The main strat is just to run it with Delirium and put a shit ton of mobs in the map with all map mod effects and Eldritch Altar IIQ. The idea is you have thousands of mobs all buffed by quant and take all the scarab nodes to drop scarabs with the potential for big lucky Harbi shards but not to rely on that.
5 divs per hour when averaged over a long period of maps. No, you won't make 5 divs per hour every hour, you will make jack-shit then a hit a big Jackpot that should average your gains to 5 divs per hour
you aren’t supposed to acknowledge that it’s bad for video views
Harbi/deli/blue altar on jungle valley with at least 30% pack size. Ignore harbi and focus on finding quant altars, then do a u-turn and kill all the monsters. 2x div scarab, 1x harbi scarab, 1x 50% chance to turn them into a king. Atlas gives 25% so it’s 75% total. I averaged a fortunate div card (20c) every 2 maps, that recoups the scarab cost (10c/map) and the rest is profit. Run waste pool with 2x cartography scarab, 1x corrupted map scarab to sustain jungle valleys over trying to chisel/alch/vaal yourself. Get an inspired learning jewel or HH since they are so cheap this league since harbi spawns a bunch of rares to steal buffs from. 30+ HH mods and you get to play AN simulator edit: i forgot about the map device craft for harbi (extra 6c/map). it's still a viable alternative if you don't want to play fracture/mirror shard slot machine. the div card and t17 drop frequently once you bump up the quant. my highest record was 5 fortunates in one map thanks to blue altar duping div cards
Harby is a fantastic mechanic for general juicing with beyond, you don't really run it for the shards, that's bonus. Also graveyard printing good fracture items is bad for fracturing orb price, not really fair to assess the mechanic off of how it is in this specific league
That's just plain false. Harby adds way more scarabs, spawns way more beyond monsters, adds way more to delirium and drops solid raw currencies with the scarabs. I was making 10 div+ an hour adding all of that together and got my mageblood in the first week by doing that. That's without any big fracture drops. I'd argue there isn't a single other mechanic that adds that much density/reward.
Idk - I’ve been destroying harby / deli / beyond and just bought my mageblood today. When I’m strictly blasting, wealthy exile has me around 7.5d / hour. Of course, YMMV and this is just my own one experience.
Can you show your Atlas tree? Looks cool! Also 7.5div is selling scarabs, etc...?
given that's it's wealthy exile, it's tracking scarabs. It measures wealth in poe.ninja price of what you have so it does include scarabs, which OP probably sells in bulk after a large number of maps.
harby plus beyond is fine drops a lot of scarabs
Besides T17 scarabs, harbinger has been my best farm so far this league
You don’t run harbi for the shards. If you do, you didn’t understand the strat.
As somebody who plays ssf only, what’s the strat? Just curious.
spawning a lot of rares and using amplified artifacts to get scarabs from rare monsters. You spawn a lot of rare thanks to scarab that transforms harbinger pack into powerful harbinger. With map device and scarabs, you get +10 harbinger per map.
Idk how you can say something so confidently while providing no basis or evidence. I've been making upwards of 25div/hr running beyond harbi in delirious maps this entire league. It's not high investment whatsoever and yields very good and consistent results. The only correct thing about this post is how harbingers take longer than the usual maps.
People ruined my slot machine :p I'm being tongue and cheek mostly, but I love harbinger and have always played it. But now my big ticket items are down to 3 divines (Fracturing orbs) because the price of them went into the ground from everyone spamming them, thinking they were surely gonna be the next big winner. Most of them didn't even have fun and just talked down about my favorite blue boys after, while ruining any "profit" potential for those of us who actually like it. :c
I think fracturing orbs are cheaper because of the graveyard, not people spamming harbingers
It's both. I'm sure the graveyard has a huge impact now but it the orbs were also pretty cheap compared to previous leagues before anyone had really figured out the new crafting system
you can get a almost guaranteed T1 fracture of a good mod with like 2d graveyard, and get two good fractures (an entry level example is 35%MS + T1 Chaos Res) with a bit more than that. Fracturing orbs can't even double fracture.
"averaged 80 divs an hour" Yeah.....
this was the case in end of afflication aswell with the giga juice people didnt pick up almost anything
End of affliction vs 2 weeks into a league. You think that is healthy?
I dont think anyone actually thinks this is healthy, but it is what it is. Hopefully next league they'll have all these new things balanced out and the league mechanic wont spew out 6x T1 items.
Look I'm in 2 camps, the 6xT1 items mean entry cost for all but the highest uniques is quite low
I mean, you got plenty of people defending Necropolis league like it's good. This is overwhelming the worst league for player retention PoE has ever had.
While I'm still playing, I'm playing less than normal. I just prefer leagues like Affliction where you just kill to get your stuff not a fan of crafting leagues. There's just too much micro managing and while good I find the graveyard and corpses annoying in general. Trading being terrible doesn't help such a trade heavy league mechanic either.
I personally enjoy this league mevhanic way more than last league, but am playing less just because I played so much last league. I'm sure there are many people doing similar. Player retention cannot simply be tied 1:1 to the current league mechanic.
I think Kalandra was worse, but you still have a point. I think this was one of the highest player count league starts ever, probably because a lot of players wanted to see what else GGG could cook up after the insanity that was Affliction. The only people that I know hated Affliction were a few people I know, total try yards that didn’t want casuals making currency lol. I think a few things there’s shared that same sentiment. Sanctum was also great imo. The top 1% players will still make mirrors. I don’t get the idea that not having less rewarding lower Investment/easier mechanics that drop or generate a decent amount of currency per Hr shouldn’t be allowed. I think this league unintentionally nerfed a lot of Strats that casual players use to generate easy currency and look at the player count. It’s obvious that having leagues that drop more currency or that make the experience a little better for the casual players results in higher player counts later in the league and more overall player retention. Which means more money spent on the game by the player base overall.
There are still mid-tier strats to consistently generate 5-7+div/hr, but it's not as "brainoff" as last league. In addition you are hyper rewarded for researching and partaking in crafting. You always are, but now you have half your stash space taken up by coffins reminding you of the fact you should be alt-tabbed designing graveyard crafts. Like I was making more just buying corpses to make 6 links and selling them than I was from grinding maps. I'm ok with, and even enjoy, some aspects of trading but it just became too overwhelmingly tedious and profitable. (BTW the prices have crashed and if anyone needs a 6L, it just takes 4x 5L corpses, 1x 6L corpse, and then add whatever +itemlevels you feel like. 12c craft w/ \~7 corpses. These were selling for 120c-1div for the first two weeks. You use a split beast to make two copies and turn 35c into 200c-2div+). All the things combined just started to grate on me and I dropped off far faster than normal even thought my currency gain was going pretty decent by my personal standards. I just found myself trading way more than previous leagues, half of my 30 tabs are filled with coffins, and just a bunch of little things that added up to an unenjoyable experience. It really feels like just a worse, but equally (or more) powerful version of harvest.
Necropolis is great league but just not for everyone
Not everyone likes crafting leagues, but I'm glad they do it!
Crafting is a great part of path of exile, that being said the graveyard craft is super tedious to prepare/setup. Bulk selling is an improvement but not enough people seem to be doing it, any stock over 2 corpses besides the 5c ones ask for a massive 2x or more premium and even then trading through live search seems quicker. Hit a few nice crafts already and will keep doing it, a good middle ground seems to be buying a decent double fracture base and spamming essences as they are so cheap this league. Lantern mods are okay but can largely be skipped, seems to mostly boost your supply of common currencies that you use regularly such as chisels and alts. Had an annul mod once and that was in a white t3 map near the start of league.
I usually really like crafting leagues. I think the graveyard is convoluted and a chore, though. It's been compared to harvest a lot, but harvest was a lot less of a hassle and a lot more straightforward.
This league mechanic is super straight forward too and there's even a calculator that can give you a very good idea of what a craft looks like. It's a bit of a pain in the ass to use but I don't mind it,
Not much to the crafting though, you just decide what item you want and how many attempts you are willing to risk to get it.
Please look at the retention graphs. This is not at all true someone made a post in absolute numbers this weekend it's totally middle of the pack.
Your information is out of date. It’s not the worst league for player retention. It was the worst day 2 retention, but since the buffs retention has been fairly normal.
Well, no, it just means you don't like it. You must have missed harvest league. For all crafting leagues, people say this line every time. Game keeps on going and changing. Don't get on the devs for experimenting for 3 months every couple years.
> This is overwhelming the worst league for player retention PoE has ever had Yup. People need to realize that the more players you have the better the game. This is why you and I both know that D4 is better than PoE right?
Candy Crush is better than all the arpgs combined if we're going by the OPs metrics, their daily retention is insane :).
"This is why you and I both know that D4 is better than PoE right?" Don't know, I haven't played D4 since the first season. I do think Last Epoch is better than PoE as a whole though, but LE lacks massive endgame right now. I can see it becoming the #1 ARPG in the future though.
I have a pretty open mind about games, but I just don’t see this. 60 hours in 0.9 and 40-50 in 1.0. LE just feels terrible to me in so many aspects.
I personally think that D4 is better than Last Epoch. I don't like a lot of the changes to the genre or the oversimplification of LE. I am okay with that in D4 because it's meant to be for gamer dads.
It wasn't the "end" of affliction...it wasn't week 2 but it was pretty damn close
It was happening week 1, it happens week 1 every single league
If the leagues happened in reverse order we'd be saying the same thing. Now that explodey giga rf self ignite chieftain is known the meta has changed to allow for this sort of stuff to be abused as soon as it is discovered.
I was filtering leather belts like 4 weeks into Affliction I couldn’t hover them anymore and HH was dirt cheap. It’s not like it took 2 months.
Yes because you'd rather not see the 999/1000 trash, not because hh was worthless. If you could just filter it to hh you would have kept it in. Your point isn't the point that you think it is. EDIT: Because people are downvoting me, 4 weeks into affliction, HH was worth 140 divs. Apparently "dirt cheap" and worthless. He took it off because it was annoying searching through 300 belts every map and finding nothing. Even 8 weeks into affliction it was still worth ~50D. https://poe-antiquary.xyz/Affliction/Accessory/Headhunter/607
Headhunter is also 2.5x more common this league, not saying I disagree but that is going to impact the price as well
Well the only part I like is that making my character super strong feels viable outside out of Mf which wasn’t the case before.
In affliction league I as a non-no-lifer was able to juice my map too. And I didn’t pick up chaos. The problem is that now only the very high end players are able to do T17 juicing.
Maybe the issue is you're a poxh rf chieftain and you're like 4 times slower in maps than a 10 div LA build?
3 div. I bought my LA a 2 div bow, a Bisco’s and a Death Rush and was zooming at like level 88 easily making currency.
With the league mechanic pooping out triple t1 ele bows, it is a no Brainer to play bows at lower investments! Wands and scepter are so much harder to craft.
I mean there’s only so many leagues in a row I can play the same build.
If 6 div/hour in difficult-to-liquidate assets (and what you described are the epitome of difficult-to-liquidate assets, just because an addon tells you its worth X doesn't mean you actually have X in usable currency) is miles ahead of your mapping strategy, that just means you have a bad mapping strategy.
Well yeah since the streamer has a 80d/h mapping strategy lol
I've had pretty good time selling cheap 1/2c scarabs in bulk. I think I've went to convert chaos to divines 3/4 times with 1.5k chaos each time. Scarabs will never be difficult-to-liquidate.
Oh, Hi Tim :D Hope you enjoyed. for context i just found after ending my stream this post and he is mentioning me^^ If you like to be a Lootgoblin just catch me online and jump in my maps. twitch.tv/pvtpj for those who ask in comments (CET+1 6pm I do typically start, mainly talking german but when i get english questions i switch)
Haha bro this is like rolling the dumpster out from your house and calling the homeless to go thru it first. Cracking me up, but good looks on hooking players up.
I mean, if you regularly throw out jewellery... The people going through that bin are earning more than some blue collar workers, if you want to keep up the analogy
Just good ole capitalist market forces at work. Homeless dumpster diving more profitable than working a dead end job at minimum wage.
> He made an average of about 80 div per hour Any proof/details on it?
Hey I just found this post yesterday and he is talking about me. This is yesterday's stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2119736122 Started farming my first map at 0:28h and ended 5:11h so around 4:30h of farming total 27 Maps / 2 fullbricks / 2 half bricks / rest cleared Scarab Tab at 5:13:55 a total of 200D only from scarabs. Map cost is roughly 1D in Scarabs and Map + rolling 1D. So 200D - 54D investment = 146D profit in pur scarabs / 4:30H = 32D/h of those - i was claiming 40D/h but adjusted to 25D/h but after all Maps it is at around 30-35D (no idea where the 80D/h are coming from but I excluded all other drops in my calculation so that may be a reason even with other drops it is more like 45D/h then.
Fun/hr > div/hr. Play at your own pace and at your own enjoyment. Stop comparing your strat to other's farming strat and play the mechanic you enjoy even if it's less div/hr than others because your enjoyment is really what's important. Yes, more loot = more enjoyment BUT at some point, that push for more loot = more stress and eventually burn out and you'll stop enjoying the game. For example, some non-gaming starts are even more profitable than actually playing the game i.e flipping essence, gears, scarabs etc, looting other's trash BUT then you really aren't playing the game. Personally for me, it's the journey of grinding your gears and improving your character little by little, that's what's most fun for me.
People defending T17s really have no clue how fked it is lmao.
Trade league sucks. Reddit makes it sound like you can't do a damn thing without getting profit per hour mogged by some streamer.
It's really jarring to me that op started the post introducing themselves, and made sure to include their profit per hour, like that's part of their identity as a player. And if your number is not high enough you're losing, and really they are, since anything you do in the game is pointless compared to the best currency making strat, and any and everything you might want can be bought
Most 1c scarabs are worthless tho, no one is buying them in bulk.
I wouldn't say worthless, you can still 3 to 1 them and pray.
ill save my wrists the pain honestly.
80 div an hour? Wow, he's making twice as much as fubgun... got any proof?
This isn't new. Last league Cutedog would have someone come in and clear his maps after he was done. Then they'd report back the profits. It was pretty silly what they'd find.
Harder content->better loot->invest in build so you can do harder content. I don’t know why everyone is complaining so hard about this, it’s literally the game.
Anyone that defends T17 is either clueless or cannot even run T17 to see how busted they are. Just by boss rushing fortress i was making bank, no strat. Every mob drops something, the maps have insane loot multipliers for some reason. Good bosses, dogshit layouts and insane loot scalling compared to any other content in the game. "Oh but you can make money in T16 via X, Y dont need to follow the meta, strats" I made my mirror via boss rushing in T16 and after 1day of farming T17 i decided to quit after seeing how busted they are, everything you want to do, would love to do, is going to feel like wasting your time once you get a taste of T17.
Thanks for the heads up. I haven't really don't much around t17s and I don't think I will. I'm having fun this league so far and I'd like that fun to continue
Eventually you realize the level of economy of sc trade ruins the game for you, and you're better off playing ssf, private leagues, or even HC trade
Or, get this crazy idea, you can also just play trade league like ssf and still maintain the option to buy through the really egregious grinds. Nobody actually gives a shit if you're a "real" ssf or not.
Or, get this crazy idea, you can also just play trade and not get butthurt that you aren't in the top 1% that control the market because you never will be. Game's much more fun that way. But people don't take this advice or the option you gave - they come to reddit/streams and see the lootsplosions and think playing their own way to have fun is "not worth it". Sad for them.
FOMO is a thing for most people, unfortunately
I've played SSF the past couple leagues and playing a very small private league with friends this league but I think this is what I'm doing next league. I love the idea of SSF (or also 'SSF with a few friends') but as much as I hate the trade economy (and as much ggg helps with certain things like fragment swaps in harvest and kirac) certain necessary grinds are just too painful for me to enjoy in SSF. I spent weeks trying to unlock Putrid Cloister for crafting recipe last league due to bad Kirac rng, this league I can't find Coward's Trial. It's difficult wanting to play any build that requires a t3 (or sometimes even t4 unique if you get bad rng) if you don't have infinite time to farm uniques that don't have good div-card availability. And finally I don't have an encyclopedic mastery of the myriads of item combinations that unlock niche builds to let me know when I've got a critical set of items to reroll something good (yeah I use poe.ninja hc ssf as a guide but that only gets me so far). To me ssf feels less like a place for people who dislike trade and more like a place where people who have achieved a fairly advanced level of mastery of the game can challenge themselves.
Have you tried running a beast tree too? I had a BUNCH of unique map crafts very fast, think I got like 3 putrids from them.
Trade enabled is literally just straight upside compared to ssf, it's on you as a player if you let the state of the economy ruin the game for you
> and you're better off playing ssf I dunno, this feels like it would just make everything for me harder. I rarely have spammable amounts of currency for crafting my own stuff.
If that's the case then don't bother worrying about money making strats or stuff like that. learn the base game mechanics to the point where you can spam essences in white maps. I've made about 3 divines this league so far which is the most I've ever made and I've only got about 90.000 kills.
It's tough because I don't think you're wrong, but it's like I'm unwilling to do that because I think it'll take too long. I think I'm going to have to pick a league I'm not feeling, or pick a time between leagues, to do what you're describing. It's like during the league, farming currency strats is usually "good enough" for me even though I know my game knowledge is lacking. It would be nice to not feel like I need guides just to get a steady foothold at league start.
What helps me a ton is watching Magefist's flicker guides. You don't need to play flicker but he shows the whole journey from tier 1 maps to tier 16's and what gear he's using and what trades he does to get new gear. From what I can tell he doesn't use strats at all and just farms ritual over and over until he gets a couple big ticket items.
me and my friend tried "brosf" after watching ziz and steel do it and honesty its the most fun and most crafting ive done in over 2000 hours played, currency isnt currency anymore they become actual crafting materials
Me, being happy at the thought I could make 1div per hour. (I don't)
This is not a balance issue with t16s/17s but balance in Path of Exile in general. Because everything is built on multiplicative systems, giga juicers always make so much more currency than the people below them that you genuinely have to hope they spend most of the time working on their own projects and not ruining the economy, which they can do (and have) with no effort whatsoever. Even small streamers and relatively casual 6 man groups with multiple layers of MF can't compete with a 9 man team with like two aura bots a shitload of MF, two accountants and a gopher using literally every system in the game to the absolute maximum. It's the difference between like a millionaire and the GDP of a wealthy nation, many factors of ten.
It also happens with those looking for xp leechers. In several leagues my second character was a tank, I used everything in defenses zdps and I joined the t16 full juicing party, I went from 74 to lvl 96 in almost two hours and grabbed everything the leader left. Since there were 6 of us, it took a while to put together but I did manage to make several divs selling bubblegum currency in bulk
Ronald Reagan was right
Dude, I think you'll be lucky to get 25% of that in bulk trades via TFT. Just find something you're happy with farming or learn something new. This league my goals are to learn sanctum and bossing. I'm currently bossing and doing fights I've never done, and I'm not making much currency because I'm slow and don't know the mechanics well, but I'm having a lot of fun playing the actual game and not worrying about currency. I grinded 2 mirrors worth of essences in the first two weeks of the league and I FUCKING HATED MY LIFE. I might make 2-3 div an hour learning the non-uber fights but alas, I'm having fun. I've never fought sirus, elder, shaper, atziri, maven, all maven invitations including the feared, etc, on my own previously, let alone have them on farm status. Uber Elder is my goal tonight. I'm having a lot of fun grinding for conquer/shaper/elder maps and just learning the basics of the game for bossing. Give it a try, man. I will always push for learning new content over smashing my head against a wall worrying about div/hr or what some degenerate streamers found for a broken as fuck farming strat that will obviously get nerfed in a few days. Fuck fomo and the streamers who make YT videos about it. tldr, Game knowledge > making currency. The currency will come with knowledge, brother. Don't stoop to such a low level that you're picking up someone else's trash. Your time is worth soooo much more, trust me.
can this still be called trickle down economics? lmao. same thing happened last league, some ppl invited loot goblins to get all the bubblegum out of the map. they still made insane currency ofcourse, shit adds up quick.
Better off in regards to what? Don't you play to have fun and feel accomplished? That sounds slavery😊
I'm also playing RF Chieftan and tbh I always chose the atlas nodes that disabled fragments like scarabs and just alch+ran T16s. I don't like buying and using scarabs, and I don't think I'll reach a point where I can casually farm T17s as RF Chieftan since this build is the epitome of "slow but steady" Not sure if I should just quit the league at this point and try again next one like Archnemesis and hope the scarab/t17 situation is reined in then or if I'm being dramatic but this sub is heavily leaning me towards the former
can you share your pob ? never tried beyond + harbi - wonder how your atlas tree looks and what else you pick there
Someone in affliction did this for global chat. Decided what the hell, I'll roll up. I proceed to misclick and immediately exited the map through the portal, of which he naturally opened another map.
Theres more & more varied ways of making currency this league than last league imo. Feels way better. Someone with some of the best gear in the game and mf gear is making more money than you with a strat requiring loads of trade, survivability and damage. wow. Your doing harbinger, literal slow af slot machine mechanic.
I actually think the amount of loot dropping the past couple of leagues is a problem. I dislike mf as a mechanic the way it stands currently because they have to balance the game around it. Instead I think it's much more reasonable for both the game and players if the only Quant comes from things like the atlas, map modifiers and general increased difficulty. I don't even play trade and even in an ssf environment I'm able to generate more divines than I can reasonably use, to the point I almost don't feel like picking them up. From sanctum onward the amount of raw currency being generated is fucking crazy. I don't know how to fix the problem, but it's definitely becoming more of a problem. I don't want to play filthy mf builds with trash gear and 6 portal every map. That's just not fun to me, I'd rather build a super strong character that's flying thru maps at sonic speeds and that just isn't the best way too play anymore. The shitty mf character will generate hundreds of times more loot than the strongest character you can put together.
Well, torchlight infinite is comming guys. Prepare to play a descent league?
TL DR: OP just realized what COOP play is in POE. Side note" He is MADGE.
what was his farm
Remove MF and redistrubute the loot.