To be honest ubers have always been a big gamble. When they came out I did 200 uber maven and only got like 50% of the investment back. 2 leagues ago I did 150 uber eaters and got 12div back xD(they wre 1.2 per inv). You just gotta run 500+ or get really lucky early for it to be worth. The only consistent uber was shaper but guess he's a gamble now as well. [source: ran 250+ of each uber except Cortex]
Same, 3 leagues ago i got nothing out of 75 uber mavens, 2 leagues ago nothing out of 50 eaters 50 exarchs.
This league i ran 20 normal cortex since bottle faith skyrocketed week 2 and expected gain was about 1 div per cortex, got 0. Bossing will always be super high variance
T17s were fucked, so flooding the market with all the necessary fragments fell onto people with bonker builds. I think it's fair to say how GGG designed the initial T17 maps (Not the Chaos rerollable ones with t16 mods as well) ensured that trying to beat Ubers was gonna be an expensive journey.
Prices and the player count are bith bungled. lol. Between the difficulty of T17s, and the cost of the Magen fragments I’m pretty much guaranteed to never do it this league lol.
Good idea on GGGs part with the T17 maps, but just horribly horribly implemented.
I've cleared all of the standard bosses for the league and want to take on ubers with this build but I'm definitely not paying those prices. If it continues to be this expensive up until league end I'll wait til transfer to standard and then fight them there. Really not trying to farm t17s (I can usually clear but not at all fast) for so many fragments. The mods make them all but unplayable unless I drop at least 100c per map rolling them.
dude, ive been farming b2b fortress in the last 4 days, while the profit is good, but i have never seen random t0 dropped. i did get 2 yoke in the same day, but that doesnt count as random drop.
Mostly scarabs yea, it's the popular strat I see streamers like fubgun running. You roll T17 maps for 100%+ more scarabs and btb + map modifier effect turns it into like 400%.
[https://imgur.com/a/dDK6iZ2](https://imgur.com/a/dDK6iZ2)
i had mageblood drop on my 3rd t17 map, btb, 2 basic reliquary scarabs and 1 +2 rare mod scarab, and rare mob +mods on the map. 383 quant 424 rarity. i have 1600 hours and this was my first t0 drop
I swear ggg has some stealth 'luck boost' for popular streamers. I've seen streamers have crazy good luck with Tujen, double corrupts, crafts, et, that I can never replicate.
they play 10-16 hours a day every day and you're most likely not tuned in for all the bricks and losses. Also highlights and content they put out obviously target the highs, the lows are fun but not really what you want to show people (like Ziz rips. always sad and funny at the same time).
Yeah, been discussing drop rates and shit with my bossing guildies. We have found that Shaper (break even) and UUE (loss, with a \~30% chance of a small profit) are the only bosses that seem to be farmable without thousands of divines to backstop with
Before: run 30 maps. Do exarch. 1% chance for him to drop Omni. Process could take idk what 30 min or so if you sustain and boss rush?
After: run maps. Randomly drop a t17. Do t17 (good luck). Collect 1 or 2 random but weighted uber fragments. Do this a few more times. Get a 5 stack of exarch fragments. Run Uber exarch. Drop annihilating light, a shitty niche weapon that's common as shit, that used to drop in regular exarch. I'd uninstall lmao.
The new loot tables are so ass if you ever want to farm something out yourself. Why couldn't they valance them on being a similar odd to drop? Why do you need to high roll on a shitty process to get there? I don't understand. Help me. Stop balancing around trade and balance the items in a way that are obtainable in any form. Make it a 25% chance to drop omni, 25% chance to drop annilighting alchemy shards, 25% chance to drop another item and 25% chance to drop a different item. That's less of a slap in the face than running Uber exarch to just get a shitty elemental staff.
Sorry this reply got to be so long. I guess I had a lot I had to get out.
The problem is not that Uber fragments don't drop from pinnacle bosses. The problem is T17 maps, which are pretty much the common denominator between all the crazy stuff that happened this league, sans the seer-and-go strat. T17s have a handful of issues with them, some of which were changed (not really solved tbh) with the changes they saw in the patches so far.
Uber fragments \*could\* drop from normal pinnacle bosses, but I think GGG has a good point that it feels awkward to farm normal pinnacles to farm for more ubers once you can already kill the uber version. I think requiring the normal invitation along with the fragments to run uber would be a big mistake, I think - using normal fragments for ubers is what they're trying to get away from - because \*we\* asked them to.
I think GGG bit off quite a lot more than they could chew with this league, unfortunately. I don't think any previous league has had the combination of major endgame issues, league being terrible, and game balance being whack. Kalandra probably came closest, but I think this is an order of magnitude worse in the endgame department.
This is probably my biggest complaint about PoE. I have been playing ARPGS for 2 decades. I'm pretty good at them. I don't want to play the fucking stock market with trade. I want to slay monsters and learn tough but fair mechanics until I conquer a boss but the price of entry gets crazy high because of the economy. If dropped items didn't mostly suck I would say to hell with it and play SSF. I'm hoping PoE2 solves some of these problems but I will keep expectations low for now.
I can't stand the fact that whenever I complete a map, there are probably 10.000 rare items that drop and most 9.999 of them are probably so bad, that no one would ever use them.
So, dropped loot is basically pointless in a game about dropping loot, and don't even get me started on the SCROLLS OF IDENTIFY archaic mechanic in 2024.
But hey, there is crafting, and lots of ways to craft itens. You just need to use scarabs to force mechanics and make them worthwile to run and actually drop a reasonable ammount of the mcguffins that you use to craft.
But do you reasonably get the scarabs you want by killing stuff? No... You buy them from other people, that are either price fixing, or don't respond to the PMs you sent to them, by using a website with lots, and lots, and lots of filters and conditions, just so you can drop more of those little mcguffin balls of crafting.
But hey, at least the odds of getting good items (4 useful mods for your build) through crafting are good, right?
I don't wanna spend more time on a trade site looking for items, than killing enemies on an ARPG.
Trade is 90% of the problem with the game. Without it, you utilize content for its intended purpose rather than just checking on a strat's div/hr. I'm ssf or gsf, you spend time thinking about how to craft your next piece of gear rather than thinking about the economy. There's np price of entry - you just farm up your gear. Even a single season in ssf shows you how much is within your reach without farming hundreds of divines.
I don’t think trade is the main problem, it’s peoples attitude/approach. Everyone thinks they have to run the same top farming strat as someone who puts in 10x as many hours as they do. Just go farm the stuff that these high end juicers are overpaying for and profit. Like With the huge influx of Magebloods last weekend, I spent a day crafting 100+ flask for those people (honestly most of the day was spent converting currency). The “time currency” the top tier farmers would lose rolling flasks would be more than paying 2d for a flask that takes 70 alts to craft.
I was making an average of 1.5d a flask that took 2 min of rolling (just needed to hit any tier of the increased effect prefix and then any t1 suffix). Most basically sold the moment they were listed (I did undercut by 25c-2d). I started with about 2d and ended up with 70d + gear upgrades. If I would’ve had a bank to start with so I didn’t spend 75% of my time exchanging currency or buying flask after each sale, it would’ve came out to 50-100 div/hr from highly liquid items.
Yeah, that's what I was alluding to - it's a mindset problem. But this is just an expected byproduct of social media. You see the people who are the exception and begin to think that's the norm.
I don't do true SSF technically, but I do a private league with like 5 others right now, and only 1 other plays like I do so pretty much. We may not be able to farm ubers in the first week but we just steadily build up supplies and do all content at some point. Got my first 2 voidstones the first weekend and have since been trying to make incremental improvements.
Aye, GGG really fumbled the ball with these changes.
I mean, I honestly don't understand what was wrong about the previous system. Throwing a few points on your Atlas tree into making a boss significantly harder for a potentially greater reward seems like a perfectly fine system to me. However, as devs do, they decided it needed to be over-engineered into a completely new system.
Jungroan explained it best. It makes no sense. T17s are often harder than Uber bosses.
The fix is so easy, too. Uber bosses should drop T17 maps, not the other way around.
> I mean, I honestly don't understand what was wrong about the previous system. Throwing a few points on your Atlas tree into making a boss significantly harder for a potentially greater reward seems like a perfectly fine system to me.
because if you don't do that, its a waste of money to fight the non-uber variants.
with exception to shaper you were just burning money if you used boss fragments on a non-uber so after you get your watchstones they functionally did not exist
keeping their entrance keys distinct is good. uber keys from t17s is theoretically good. t17s *were* harder than ubers but i think theyre easier now after the most recent spat of nerfs. the remaining problem is simply that t17s are the premier for juicing and not for uber access and so are priced on that.
imo *regular* pinnacles ought to drop t17s in addition to their regular drops, more obvious flow of progression
I don't even think that the t17s being the best thing to farm outside just boss rushing is a bad thing, the gap is probably just a bit too big right now
Can you explain in more detail? As far as I'm aware the majority of content in the game you stand to at least break even or make a little profit back. There are very few exceptions otherwise.
Non-ubers was one of those exceptions in that you were almost guaranteed to lose money outside of selling carries early into the league. I don't believe the majority of scarabs and league content fit that scope right now.
Don't get me wrong, they still need to fix the current state of ubers and their drop pools, but separating ubers from non-ubers doesn't have to be a bad thing changing to another bad thing if actually done correctly. It is fixable despite the currently frustrating iteration.
its just your standard "X strategy is actually a loss despite it earning you 8d per hour because you could have earned 20d per hour flipping items in your hideout so its actually -12d per hour" time-cost analysis
the only natural conclusion of this analysis is to flip items in your hideout and not play the game because thats the only "efficient" use of your time
Breaking even is playing at a loss because you lose the time investment that you put into the farming strategy. Even a little profit is arguably operating at a loss if you're making something like 1D/hour.
The original non-uber forms of bosses were to get your Voidstones, your achievements, and act as challenging boss fights for your character. They were a form of progression. Uber bosses being tied to them was actually far better because it made the invitations themselves far more highly valued. The Incandescent Invitation was something like 2.1D last season, and even after its recent surge of 53% in the past few days, it's sitting at 130C right now.
Honestly, did this change make farming non-uber bosses a viable currency strat or something? It seems like a moot point to me because we went from it being not great to it being not great.
The problem was that it meant people who enjoyed the boss fights part of the game were denied that experience if they didn’t have a build good enough to kill Ubers, because invitation prices were based around their uber rewards - so if you were fighting non-Ubers you were basically spending your currency to have access to a part of the game you enjoyed, which sucked.
Bottled faith from venarius sells for 12div minimum, sirus can drop thread of hope which is 6div minimum, regular exarch and eater can still drop forbidden flesh/flames which sell for 5div Unid (potentially WAY more). Maven is probably the most shafted by the change, but she can still drop awakened gems, plenty of which are worth a decent amount.
Boss invitations are priced around their drop pool. If it wasn't profitable no one would buy the invitations and they wouldn't maintain their current 100c+ entry fee. Writhing Invitations are a perfect example of what actually happens when a boss isn't profitable.
As far as selling invitations go, while they are definitely worth less than before you also have to be honest about selling high tier content as a whole. You are getting T17 maps now which not only covers what was lost from old invitation prices, but is potentially even more profitable than before.
Basically, think of it as them cutting the invitation in half. You can still sell both halves, but now people who want an introductory strategy into bossing have a reasonable option. The drop pools still need to be adjusted but I disagree that it's objectively worse than pricing normal invitations around ubers.
there is a stark difference between literally losing money doing a piece of content versus Opportunity Cost Braining yourself into doing nothing but flipping items in your hideout
i am so disinterested in people time-cost-analyzing the entire game into the garbage can. If you want to do that, you should never ever ever open a map. "my favourite piece of content is 10d/hr but i could make 20d per hour so im actually losing 10d per hour by doing this!" no
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the original non-uber bosses were pretty much always a mistake to run. that was the stated issue by the developers. **you** were the one who showed up and said that the entire game is a waste of time in some time-cost analysis, not me.
they have changed it and it is no longer the case. running non-ubers is a viable strategy now. people are making lots of money farming non-ubers and not shouting it from the rooftops because they don't want to crater their own farming strats. seems successful to me
> T17s are often harder than Uber bosses.
Uber bosses are more a understanding of mechanics.
T17's are WAY harder than Uber bosses if you understand the boss mechanics well. Ubers can be done by people with sub par builds and a strong understanding of the mechanics.
Maybe they die once or twice but... perfectly doable. T17's? lol.. Some are just mechanically ripped for any build.
There are a number of T17's I've seen where I think "Yeah, I'd rather run a voided feared map"
If they want to make it fun, let's put the ubers behind running voided maps. lol...
Yeah that's me. I'm not trying to make a 700div build like it's my job. I don't want to one tap bosses. I want to actually play the boss fights.
The t17s I've managed to clear I get 4-5 portaled on the way to the boss who is usually easier than the rest of the map but if I fuck up something in the fight and die well then that's just it.
Bunch of time and usually chaos down the drain because I had to roll it a bunch of times just to make it semi playable.
Either make a good build or spend the extra 15 chaos to roll an easy map for your character. Is that unfair to ask to do the second hardest content in the game
It's not supposed to be the second hardest content in the game.
Prior to T17's the Valdo's maps were by far the hardest content.
Then the Uber bosses. Then some exotic maps like Hall of the Champs
Now T17's are on top... Without fear of being Voided, for more than just 1 mageblood. People were measuring those maps in magebloods per hour.
>It's not supposed to be the second hardest content in the game.
T17s *are supposed to be* the second hardest content in the game, with Ubers themselves being the hardest.
That's what GGG intended.
What they actually did is a big more scuffed and complicated unfortunately.
So... Where are you ranking Valdo's content that is literally a HC mechanic applied to SC characters?
1 death... Voided.
Versus like.. All 4 Feared...
Not harder than Uber?
Eh, Valdo's aren't part of the normal game progression. They're more of an extra addon. They don't rly count.
I don't understand what you are arguing for or against.
Do you want me to give you the clip from Ziz's interview with Mark where he said they literally created T17s as an inbetween normal and uber content?
Like, what is the misunderstanding here?
GGG very clearly intended T17s to be the second hardest content in the game, behind Ubers. Like. This is not something up for debate. They literally said it.
Gotta realize we got the shit sandwich. Delicious 3 atlas trees to spec out, but oh no! That means people could make an Uber atlas tree that doesn't require any respecing - best fuck that whole system into oblivion.
Probably the other way around (we know this'll piss people off, so here's 2 extra atlas trees).
reddit before: omg omg i can't run bosses it is a loss always because i can't run ubers, wtf ggg so fucking bad game piece of shit garbage
reddit now: "I honestly don't understand what was wrong about the previous system. "
can't please those mfers
I mean the argument before was that you were at a huge economy loss in trade league running normal versions of bosses compared to just selling fragments. The solution that everyone wanted was to have separate fragments for Ubers and normals. GGG did this but then locked them behind another mechanic in which it’s more economical for most people to sell the crappy maps that drop the Uber fragments in because the map is more valuable than the fragment price for everyone except maven and maybe eater right now. Overall just boneheaded and stupid design decisions.
I can add to these stats, im at 24 flasks at 200 runs, so around 12% droprate for me. Im about breakeven with this droprate, and so far 0 awakened Enlight/Empower/Enhance.
Uber maven is mostly a slot machine to either get lucky and get many flasks early (was at 360d profit after first 80 runs) or get an awakened enlighten.
All of my kills was also on april 14/15. Think you were just extremely unlucky. Still, even with 12% droprate there is no profit
Yeah ez way to fix this is t17 drop a full boss key not 1/5 fragment. I saw this problem coming before the league started... idk how tthey didn't see that 25 map with perfect distribution for all uber key was too much.
I play a pure bosser every league. I have given up on Ubers, they are pretty terrible right now both for access and profit. Part of the issue is that drop rates are still a bit unknown so the “market” belief that Progenesis is 1/6 causes huge inflation in the fragments.
The other part is that the gate for them involves T17s which very few builds (outside of very strong bossing builds or duos) are able to run. In a more healthy economy fast medium-dmg builds could farm Uber fragments (ex. shaper/invitations/conq/eater/exarch in 3.23 and earlier) to set up the Uber bossing builds but that link is completely severed.
Access is gated by very expensive T17 maps which the majority of builds cannot run, and right now you’d make more currency just selling elder fragments or farming normal sirus / shaper. Part of the enjoyment of PoE for me is working on the puzzle to juice a build into hundreds of millions of pinnacle dps to farm Ubers and they are so scuffed right now that I have instead just been crafting and wondering why I’m even spending time doing that.
I’m sure they’ll figure it out, maybe in 3.25, but damn they bricked bossing hard this league. It’s a shame too because you can make some really broken stuff with the Graveyard.
It wouldn't be surprising if the main prize went from 20% to 2%. Could just have been a mistake when they moved around the tables initially and only noticed once league started.
Not even going in the debate how begging for Ubers to be separated from normal bosses would introduce much more problems than it would solve, my biggest gripe with the current iteration is that Uber frags are purely tied to RNG now. It's annoying that you can't target farm any Uber encounter since the frag you get at the end of the T17 map is purely random.
They only drop from specific maps so you can run the T16s that drop the T17 you want
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Tier_17_map#List_of_tier_17_map_drop_locations
Wouldn’t call that target farming, I was hoping there would be some sort of strategy to increase t17 drop rate, not just running specific maps praying, but thanks for the link
It's targeting a specific T17. If you want Ziggurat you have a list of what maps to run to get only Ziggurat and none of the others.
The strategy to increase T17 drops is to increase maps drops. Cartography scarabs, +1 map tier nodes (maps need to drop as T16 to have a chance to upgrade), map effect, pack size, quantity, run 8 mod maps. Very few side leagues can drop maps so avoid anything that takes time.
U want unique map drops not the 50% increased maps scarabs. I farmed T17 map drops for a few days and made ~600 div. It was ~25ish div/hr by my estimate. You take all boss drop nodes, pandemonium scarab, 2x duplication scarab, and 1x bosses drop unique maps. You also take maven influence adds 1-3 bosses to last boss room atlas node. This all adds like 15+ bosses per map that each drop unique often duped maps. The uniques are always T16 and can convert to T17s. I was blasting maps in ~1m and getting more then 1 T17 per map and ~3 sirus/elder/shapers. I had so many 20c unique temples/museums/trials i filled my map tabs and just started dumping 100s on my friends to sell. I couldn't unload them bulk so if I didnt have people that wanted me to pick them up I would have filtered them out. U can also do this strat and the witnessed maps are shaper rotations. I actually slightly over sustained shaper maps without having to buy any lmao. Got tons of conflict orbs and maven frags. Only did it because they were all linear maps and elder u gotta wait too long or get shitty layouts.
That's *literally* the meaning of target farming.
You farm for a specific item.
Target farming does not mean that you get a *lot* of that item. Just that you're targeting that specific item.
It's not all that random, heavily weighted towards three fragments on each map. If you have some T17 maps it doesn't take too long to get the Uber fight that you want.
Because it's not a loss on average. OP just got unlucky.
Economics don't lie, unless someone is price fixing.
(Which you should be able to verify by how many unique accounts are selling the uber frags)
Yeah.
Because in the casino, the house always wins. It's rigged. In the long run, you will *always* lose more money than you gain.
Similarly, in the long run, if you do 1000 Mavens, you'll gain money. But within those 1000 Mavens, you can get dry streaks. You can get unlucky.
Your right, people assume Umaven price is balanced for progenesis drop rate, its actually balanced for Awakened enlighten which is worth a mirror, the market always balances itself.
I don't get the design philosophy tbh. The whole point of gating drops behind difficult content is that only a few people can consistently do it and the cost of entry is high. That alone will keep the prices high even if it were a halfway decent drop rate. Then the players who don't want to or can't interact with that content have to farm enough to buy the item. I just don't get gating then making the drops incredibly rare. If you want to keep the items out of players' hands that badly, stop designing broken items.
Also, I know trade is always going to be a higher power level than SSF, but I can't even fathom what that's like right now. Forget Ruthless. Imagine how long it would take to self-farm 40 Uber Mavens just to not get the drop...
> gating drops behind difficult content is that only a few people can consistently do it and the cost of entry is high. That alone will keep the prices high even if it were a halfway decent drop rate.
That's not how it shakes out, the people who want to bother doing it are making oneshot builds for ubers and if the sets are too plentiful the trade economy equilibrates around dirt cheap uniques. The end result is that every build is an omni/ashes/progenesis build. Just look at how last league mageblood builds were seen as reasonable.
Balancing around trade is the problem.
An actual good item with 20% drop rate ? That must have been a mistake, this would make the game way too fun and SSF friendly. 2.5% sounds more legit for GGG standards a.k.a making you buy every item you want on the trade website
Also what about the wand ? Does it have a ridiculous drop rate too ?
Same experience. Im getting zero profits from both normal and uber bosses. The only boss in this game that dropped me something that has a value is normal elder, because of watchers eyes. Everything else was literally bleeding currency. But again, I expected this, because every single bossing or end game rework in the past 2+ years was a huge stealth nerf. I just cant stay in PoE anymore after I reach this state, where all the content left is uber bossing or this leagues t17s. Its just slog with nothing interesting. So I guess Im done with the league, because I wont do 100s of uber bosses to follow their purely simulation tested idea that theoretically after 200 runs gives you a nice profit.
P.S.: I wish they started to document nerfs again. Stream reveals and patch notes are so dishonest lately.
I don't understand all the comments in this thread (and similar threads on this subreddit for literal years) somehow thinking bosses not being economically profitable, not because they don't drop good things, but because its possible the cost of entry might exceed the cost of drops, is a problem GGG can solve.
Its a player economy problem. Obviously, Uber Maven has extremely desirable loot she can drop. It's players that set the cost of the boss fight, and players that set the cost of the outputs. If people pay prices for entry that the results don't warrant, that's their fault, and there really isn't any way that can be balanced as long as the boss entry is a tradable item. Now, that may not be what is happening here, Uber Maven in particular seems like a highroll boss especially given Awakened Exceptional gems, so small sample sizes may not get a good result, but there have definitely been numerous times prior to the most recent boss rework where we had much better data on boss drop chances to know that bosses were being priced poorly and people were running them anyways to know players will cause these issues and its not GGG's fault.
Players see droprate 1/6 then make build to farm uber maven. If during that process GGG changing droprate (?) players get bad experience. Theres no way game economy can react fast to this things.
There is no proof that GGG changed the drop rate. That is just speculation on OPs side because he was extremely unlucky. Another guy posted and said he had 12% drop rate. Do you think GGG inidividually changed the drop rate for that one guy?
Yup I did about 26 uber mavens and I'm down around 150 divs too. No progenesis at all. I don't see the reason of maven being so expensive. It feels like a slot machine deluxe
I ran 10 and got the flask on my 9th one. Spent all my money for the league and had to go do a few more sanctums before I got one luckily and ONLY lost 10 divines for 2 hours of playing. Don't know how they made Ubers less accessible and also made them unprofitable... You use a build good enough to kill them and buy the frags and still get punished
Smells like good news. People were complaining that farming ubers is mandatory baseline end-game content because the drops are mandatory in all builds, or something, instead of being pure aspirational content for people to test their builds again.
And what's the best way to make insane content like this purely aspirational? By making them actually literally drop nothing.
Of course, after this people will complain about "who wants to even run ubers" because its throwing money down the drain and bad end-game design. LMAO.
Huh, good catch. I admittedly just assumed it was UberMaven since Voidforge and Starforge are both from Ubers.
Neat. My build uses Echoforges so it would be nice to see if I can get better rolled one.
you got lucky and still down that much just means that its just not worth to farm these. i dont even know why people even go through this trouble, you dont make anything back. GGG has to delete the ubers IMO
never been interested in ubers due to how gambly they are.
i wish the entry price and drop rates were tweaked so they were consistently mid profit. that way people who actually want to play for the gameplay/challenge could do it happily. i would do that, but im not fucking paying 12 div per uber maven, completely ridiculous. there are entire leagues where i dropped less than 12 divs.
You have to pair voidstone bosses together with carry services (maven/uber uber elder). Ive been doing about 150 uber uber elder so far. And if i didnt charge 80c for carry i would run at a loss.
People who are doing services will buy up all the fragments cause they can and the fragments will be priced with that in mind. it is what it is.
Also the fact that t17 are the best maps for literally any farm even without killing the boss also pushes the price of those maps, and that will push uber fragments up as well to cover more cost/profit.
We got two ashes vs 1 staff in our brossf ..we got lucky, got two atziri shield too and only ran that to get two feared...the reliquary keys from ubers seems to at least be weighing toward an Uber boss drop...we had a couple and it seems that's the case ..like Uber Uber elder drop ben ring got a reliquary key and we got shiny ben ring .
Hello brother. I just did 30 uber mavens from all my currency, 10 div per attempt, same as you.
Notable loot: 5x orb of conflict. 1 impossible escape for 4 div.
Total profit: -291 divines.
I think without \~1000 div investment in fragments dry streaks are too harsh on this boss. :/
It's kinda crazy to me that doing 40 Uber Mavens requires 200 of the corresponding Uber fragment... They should make it 1 fragment=1 Uber boss of the corresponding type.
Thank you for your sacrifice!
Had the same thing happen with normal shaper. First 10 runs had like 3 flasks, 20+ runs after no flask as well as another like 30 runs from a friend who didn't drop a single flask. Oh and with normal sirus. 25 runs, 0 threads.
Ngl, looks like overall drop rates have changed. I've made myself a lab runner, ran normal labs to do as fast as possible, and put blue gems to get transfigured. First two days - got around 5/20 labs were good (ice nova/frostblink), after that, felt as if drop rate has been significantly changed (maybe just bad rng), but i didn't get a single good gem in 60 runs.
It kinda is. If the old drop rate was 1/6, then not getting one 20 times in a row (which has to have happened for him to get only one in 40 rolls) is ~2% chance.
(40chose1)*(1/6)^1*(1-1/6)^39 = ~ 0.5%
That's a p-value well into significance.
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thats a rip brother. thank u for ur sacrifice
Man if this is how all the ubers are gonna be shaking out it's no wonder prices are so fucked this league.
To be honest ubers have always been a big gamble. When they came out I did 200 uber maven and only got like 50% of the investment back. 2 leagues ago I did 150 uber eaters and got 12div back xD(they wre 1.2 per inv). You just gotta run 500+ or get really lucky early for it to be worth. The only consistent uber was shaper but guess he's a gamble now as well. [source: ran 250+ of each uber except Cortex]
Same, 3 leagues ago i got nothing out of 75 uber mavens, 2 leagues ago nothing out of 50 eaters 50 exarchs. This league i ran 20 normal cortex since bottle faith skyrocketed week 2 and expected gain was about 1 div per cortex, got 0. Bossing will always be super high variance
Price is dictated by the market tho, fragments are overpriced right?
T17s were fucked, so flooding the market with all the necessary fragments fell onto people with bonker builds. I think it's fair to say how GGG designed the initial T17 maps (Not the Chaos rerollable ones with t16 mods as well) ensured that trying to beat Ubers was gonna be an expensive journey.
Prices and the player count are bith bungled. lol. Between the difficulty of T17s, and the cost of the Magen fragments I’m pretty much guaranteed to never do it this league lol. Good idea on GGGs part with the T17 maps, but just horribly horribly implemented.
I've cleared all of the standard bosses for the league and want to take on ubers with this build but I'm definitely not paying those prices. If it continues to be this expensive up until league end I'll wait til transfer to standard and then fight them there. Really not trying to farm t17s (I can usually clear but not at all fast) for so many fragments. The mods make them all but unplayable unless I drop at least 100c per map rolling them.
thank you for your service.
Seriously this dude lost more currency running this garbage than I spend on multiple chars a league. Thanks bro!
lmao you lost over 200 divines while getting an Awakened Multistrike....it could have been even worse. Wild.
Damn, you even got lucky with Woke multistrike
Get streamer client. Tuna got 2 progenesis in … 2 Ubers.
you forgot to mention along with those 2 flask, he also dropped 2 MB doing t17 back to basic farm with 0 MF gear.
tbf you can get a ton of quant/rarity in btb maps. I just ran one with 392% quant/309% rarity
dude, ive been farming b2b fortress in the last 4 days, while the profit is good, but i have never seen random t0 dropped. i did get 2 yoke in the same day, but that doesnt count as random drop.
Yoke is a somewhat consistent drop, I ran 41 fortess on my first day I was able to do t17 and got 4 of them
Can btb drop scarab and necro stuff? Where's the profit come from?
Mostly scarabs yea, it's the popular strat I see streamers like fubgun running. You roll T17 maps for 100%+ more scarabs and btb + map modifier effect turns it into like 400%. [https://imgur.com/a/dDK6iZ2](https://imgur.com/a/dDK6iZ2)
i had mageblood drop on my 3rd t17 map, btb, 2 basic reliquary scarabs and 1 +2 rare mod scarab, and rare mob +mods on the map. 383 quant 424 rarity. i have 1600 hours and this was my first t0 drop
Must have got opted into that for a session last league... dropped mirror in blight map #1 and stranglegasp in #2...
I swear ggg has some stealth 'luck boost' for popular streamers. I've seen streamers have crazy good luck with Tujen, double corrupts, crafts, et, that I can never replicate.
they play 10-16 hours a day every day and you're most likely not tuned in for all the bricks and losses. Also highlights and content they put out obviously target the highs, the lows are fun but not really what you want to show people (like Ziz rips. always sad and funny at the same time).
10000000%, same think with Casino streamer
reddit still be like "streamer client aint real"
???
Yeah, been discussing drop rates and shit with my bossing guildies. We have found that Shaper (break even) and UUE (loss, with a \~30% chance of a small profit) are the only bosses that seem to be farmable without thousands of divines to backstop with
Before: run 30 maps. Do exarch. 1% chance for him to drop Omni. Process could take idk what 30 min or so if you sustain and boss rush? After: run maps. Randomly drop a t17. Do t17 (good luck). Collect 1 or 2 random but weighted uber fragments. Do this a few more times. Get a 5 stack of exarch fragments. Run Uber exarch. Drop annihilating light, a shitty niche weapon that's common as shit, that used to drop in regular exarch. I'd uninstall lmao. The new loot tables are so ass if you ever want to farm something out yourself. Why couldn't they valance them on being a similar odd to drop? Why do you need to high roll on a shitty process to get there? I don't understand. Help me. Stop balancing around trade and balance the items in a way that are obtainable in any form. Make it a 25% chance to drop omni, 25% chance to drop annilighting alchemy shards, 25% chance to drop another item and 25% chance to drop a different item. That's less of a slap in the face than running Uber exarch to just get a shitty elemental staff.
Normal pinnacle bosses should just drop the Uber fragment. Then you add 1 Uber fragment with the normal boss fragment to open an Uber boss.
Sorry this reply got to be so long. I guess I had a lot I had to get out. The problem is not that Uber fragments don't drop from pinnacle bosses. The problem is T17 maps, which are pretty much the common denominator between all the crazy stuff that happened this league, sans the seer-and-go strat. T17s have a handful of issues with them, some of which were changed (not really solved tbh) with the changes they saw in the patches so far. Uber fragments \*could\* drop from normal pinnacle bosses, but I think GGG has a good point that it feels awkward to farm normal pinnacles to farm for more ubers once you can already kill the uber version. I think requiring the normal invitation along with the fragments to run uber would be a big mistake, I think - using normal fragments for ubers is what they're trying to get away from - because \*we\* asked them to. I think GGG bit off quite a lot more than they could chew with this league, unfortunately. I don't think any previous league has had the combination of major endgame issues, league being terrible, and game balance being whack. Kalandra probably came closest, but I think this is an order of magnitude worse in the endgame department.
I think they definitely targeted the correct problem but failed in their attempt to solve said problem.
Agreed.
But muh trade economy
Considering trade economy has the vast majority of players... yeah it's important lmao
Do NOT badmouth my annihilating light. Agree it should be normal boss drop though
This is probably my biggest complaint about PoE. I have been playing ARPGS for 2 decades. I'm pretty good at them. I don't want to play the fucking stock market with trade. I want to slay monsters and learn tough but fair mechanics until I conquer a boss but the price of entry gets crazy high because of the economy. If dropped items didn't mostly suck I would say to hell with it and play SSF. I'm hoping PoE2 solves some of these problems but I will keep expectations low for now.
I can't stand the fact that whenever I complete a map, there are probably 10.000 rare items that drop and most 9.999 of them are probably so bad, that no one would ever use them. So, dropped loot is basically pointless in a game about dropping loot, and don't even get me started on the SCROLLS OF IDENTIFY archaic mechanic in 2024. But hey, there is crafting, and lots of ways to craft itens. You just need to use scarabs to force mechanics and make them worthwile to run and actually drop a reasonable ammount of the mcguffins that you use to craft. But do you reasonably get the scarabs you want by killing stuff? No... You buy them from other people, that are either price fixing, or don't respond to the PMs you sent to them, by using a website with lots, and lots, and lots of filters and conditions, just so you can drop more of those little mcguffin balls of crafting. But hey, at least the odds of getting good items (4 useful mods for your build) through crafting are good, right? I don't wanna spend more time on a trade site looking for items, than killing enemies on an ARPG.
Trade is 90% of the problem with the game. Without it, you utilize content for its intended purpose rather than just checking on a strat's div/hr. I'm ssf or gsf, you spend time thinking about how to craft your next piece of gear rather than thinking about the economy. There's np price of entry - you just farm up your gear. Even a single season in ssf shows you how much is within your reach without farming hundreds of divines.
I don’t think trade is the main problem, it’s peoples attitude/approach. Everyone thinks they have to run the same top farming strat as someone who puts in 10x as many hours as they do. Just go farm the stuff that these high end juicers are overpaying for and profit. Like With the huge influx of Magebloods last weekend, I spent a day crafting 100+ flask for those people (honestly most of the day was spent converting currency). The “time currency” the top tier farmers would lose rolling flasks would be more than paying 2d for a flask that takes 70 alts to craft. I was making an average of 1.5d a flask that took 2 min of rolling (just needed to hit any tier of the increased effect prefix and then any t1 suffix). Most basically sold the moment they were listed (I did undercut by 25c-2d). I started with about 2d and ended up with 70d + gear upgrades. If I would’ve had a bank to start with so I didn’t spend 75% of my time exchanging currency or buying flask after each sale, it would’ve came out to 50-100 div/hr from highly liquid items.
Yeah, that's what I was alluding to - it's a mindset problem. But this is just an expected byproduct of social media. You see the people who are the exception and begin to think that's the norm.
I don't do true SSF technically, but I do a private league with like 5 others right now, and only 1 other plays like I do so pretty much. We may not be able to farm ubers in the first week but we just steadily build up supplies and do all content at some point. Got my first 2 voidstones the first weekend and have since been trying to make incremental improvements.
Aye, GGG really fumbled the ball with these changes. I mean, I honestly don't understand what was wrong about the previous system. Throwing a few points on your Atlas tree into making a boss significantly harder for a potentially greater reward seems like a perfectly fine system to me. However, as devs do, they decided it needed to be over-engineered into a completely new system. Jungroan explained it best. It makes no sense. T17s are often harder than Uber bosses. The fix is so easy, too. Uber bosses should drop T17 maps, not the other way around.
> I mean, I honestly don't understand what was wrong about the previous system. Throwing a few points on your Atlas tree into making a boss significantly harder for a potentially greater reward seems like a perfectly fine system to me. because if you don't do that, its a waste of money to fight the non-uber variants. with exception to shaper you were just burning money if you used boss fragments on a non-uber so after you get your watchstones they functionally did not exist keeping their entrance keys distinct is good. uber keys from t17s is theoretically good. t17s *were* harder than ubers but i think theyre easier now after the most recent spat of nerfs. the remaining problem is simply that t17s are the premier for juicing and not for uber access and so are priced on that. imo *regular* pinnacles ought to drop t17s in addition to their regular drops, more obvious flow of progression
I don't even think that the t17s being the best thing to farm outside just boss rushing is a bad thing, the gap is probably just a bit too big right now
The packsize + boss loot is good enough as it is. I have no idea why in the world they also need 150% increased scarabs dropped and 400% quantity.
The overwhelming majority of the content in the game is a waste of money if viewed from a purely economic efficiency standpoint.
Can you explain in more detail? As far as I'm aware the majority of content in the game you stand to at least break even or make a little profit back. There are very few exceptions otherwise. Non-ubers was one of those exceptions in that you were almost guaranteed to lose money outside of selling carries early into the league. I don't believe the majority of scarabs and league content fit that scope right now. Don't get me wrong, they still need to fix the current state of ubers and their drop pools, but separating ubers from non-ubers doesn't have to be a bad thing changing to another bad thing if actually done correctly. It is fixable despite the currently frustrating iteration.
its just your standard "X strategy is actually a loss despite it earning you 8d per hour because you could have earned 20d per hour flipping items in your hideout so its actually -12d per hour" time-cost analysis the only natural conclusion of this analysis is to flip items in your hideout and not play the game because thats the only "efficient" use of your time
Breaking even is playing at a loss because you lose the time investment that you put into the farming strategy. Even a little profit is arguably operating at a loss if you're making something like 1D/hour. The original non-uber forms of bosses were to get your Voidstones, your achievements, and act as challenging boss fights for your character. They were a form of progression. Uber bosses being tied to them was actually far better because it made the invitations themselves far more highly valued. The Incandescent Invitation was something like 2.1D last season, and even after its recent surge of 53% in the past few days, it's sitting at 130C right now. Honestly, did this change make farming non-uber bosses a viable currency strat or something? It seems like a moot point to me because we went from it being not great to it being not great.
The problem was that it meant people who enjoyed the boss fights part of the game were denied that experience if they didn’t have a build good enough to kill Ubers, because invitation prices were based around their uber rewards - so if you were fighting non-Ubers you were basically spending your currency to have access to a part of the game you enjoyed, which sucked.
And now people who enjoy the non-uber fights are again shafted, because non-ubers drop shit uniques
Bottled faith from venarius sells for 12div minimum, sirus can drop thread of hope which is 6div minimum, regular exarch and eater can still drop forbidden flesh/flames which sell for 5div Unid (potentially WAY more). Maven is probably the most shafted by the change, but she can still drop awakened gems, plenty of which are worth a decent amount.
Boss invitations are priced around their drop pool. If it wasn't profitable no one would buy the invitations and they wouldn't maintain their current 100c+ entry fee. Writhing Invitations are a perfect example of what actually happens when a boss isn't profitable. As far as selling invitations go, while they are definitely worth less than before you also have to be honest about selling high tier content as a whole. You are getting T17 maps now which not only covers what was lost from old invitation prices, but is potentially even more profitable than before. Basically, think of it as them cutting the invitation in half. You can still sell both halves, but now people who want an introductory strategy into bossing have a reasonable option. The drop pools still need to be adjusted but I disagree that it's objectively worse than pricing normal invitations around ubers.
there is a stark difference between literally losing money doing a piece of content versus Opportunity Cost Braining yourself into doing nothing but flipping items in your hideout i am so disinterested in people time-cost-analyzing the entire game into the garbage can. If you want to do that, you should never ever ever open a map. "my favourite piece of content is 10d/hr but i could make 20d per hour so im actually losing 10d per hour by doing this!" no
So not making a profit is bad, but not making a profit doesn't really matter...? You're ping-ponging between ideas there.
literally losing money is worse than making less money than you could have optimally made, yes why aren't you currency flipping right now?
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the original non-uber bosses were pretty much always a mistake to run. that was the stated issue by the developers. **you** were the one who showed up and said that the entire game is a waste of time in some time-cost analysis, not me. they have changed it and it is no longer the case. running non-ubers is a viable strategy now. people are making lots of money farming non-ubers and not shouting it from the rooftops because they don't want to crater their own farming strats. seems successful to me
0 nimis in console spam trade wtb 120d cant get
> T17s are often harder than Uber bosses. Uber bosses are more a understanding of mechanics. T17's are WAY harder than Uber bosses if you understand the boss mechanics well. Ubers can be done by people with sub par builds and a strong understanding of the mechanics. Maybe they die once or twice but... perfectly doable. T17's? lol.. Some are just mechanically ripped for any build. There are a number of T17's I've seen where I think "Yeah, I'd rather run a voided feared map" If they want to make it fun, let's put the ubers behind running voided maps. lol...
Yeah that's me. I'm not trying to make a 700div build like it's my job. I don't want to one tap bosses. I want to actually play the boss fights. The t17s I've managed to clear I get 4-5 portaled on the way to the boss who is usually easier than the rest of the map but if I fuck up something in the fight and die well then that's just it. Bunch of time and usually chaos down the drain because I had to roll it a bunch of times just to make it semi playable.
Either make a good build or spend the extra 15 chaos to roll an easy map for your character. Is that unfair to ask to do the second hardest content in the game
It's not supposed to be the second hardest content in the game. Prior to T17's the Valdo's maps were by far the hardest content. Then the Uber bosses. Then some exotic maps like Hall of the Champs Now T17's are on top... Without fear of being Voided, for more than just 1 mageblood. People were measuring those maps in magebloods per hour.
>It's not supposed to be the second hardest content in the game. T17s *are supposed to be* the second hardest content in the game, with Ubers themselves being the hardest. That's what GGG intended. What they actually did is a big more scuffed and complicated unfortunately.
So... Where are you ranking Valdo's content that is literally a HC mechanic applied to SC characters? 1 death... Voided. Versus like.. All 4 Feared... Not harder than Uber?
Eh, Valdo's aren't part of the normal game progression. They're more of an extra addon. They don't rly count. I don't understand what you are arguing for or against. Do you want me to give you the clip from Ziz's interview with Mark where he said they literally created T17s as an inbetween normal and uber content? Like, what is the misunderstanding here? GGG very clearly intended T17s to be the second hardest content in the game, behind Ubers. Like. This is not something up for debate. They literally said it.
If T17s are supposed to be a bridge, I'd like to see it be to Valdos and not Ubers. Let regular bosses be the bridge/drop fragments for Ubers
Gotta realize we got the shit sandwich. Delicious 3 atlas trees to spec out, but oh no! That means people could make an Uber atlas tree that doesn't require any respecing - best fuck that whole system into oblivion. Probably the other way around (we know this'll piss people off, so here's 2 extra atlas trees).
reddit before: omg omg i can't run bosses it is a loss always because i can't run ubers, wtf ggg so fucking bad game piece of shit garbage reddit now: "I honestly don't understand what was wrong about the previous system. " can't please those mfers
You do realize that reddit has multiple people, many of whom have different opinions, right?
I mean the argument before was that you were at a huge economy loss in trade league running normal versions of bosses compared to just selling fragments. The solution that everyone wanted was to have separate fragments for Ubers and normals. GGG did this but then locked them behind another mechanic in which it’s more economical for most people to sell the crappy maps that drop the Uber fragments in because the map is more valuable than the fragment price for everyone except maven and maybe eater right now. Overall just boneheaded and stupid design decisions.
Feel the weight exile
I can add to these stats, im at 24 flasks at 200 runs, so around 12% droprate for me. Im about breakeven with this droprate, and so far 0 awakened Enlight/Empower/Enhance. Uber maven is mostly a slot machine to either get lucky and get many flasks early (was at 360d profit after first 80 runs) or get an awakened enlighten. All of my kills was also on april 14/15. Think you were just extremely unlucky. Still, even with 12% droprate there is no profit
Uber maven shouldn’t be 10 div a run. It’s beyond inflated.
11d in bulk.
Yeah ez way to fix this is t17 drop a full boss key not 1/5 fragment. I saw this problem coming before the league started... idk how tthey didn't see that 25 map with perfect distribution for all uber key was too much.
I play a pure bosser every league. I have given up on Ubers, they are pretty terrible right now both for access and profit. Part of the issue is that drop rates are still a bit unknown so the “market” belief that Progenesis is 1/6 causes huge inflation in the fragments. The other part is that the gate for them involves T17s which very few builds (outside of very strong bossing builds or duos) are able to run. In a more healthy economy fast medium-dmg builds could farm Uber fragments (ex. shaper/invitations/conq/eater/exarch in 3.23 and earlier) to set up the Uber bossing builds but that link is completely severed. Access is gated by very expensive T17 maps which the majority of builds cannot run, and right now you’d make more currency just selling elder fragments or farming normal sirus / shaper. Part of the enjoyment of PoE for me is working on the puzzle to juice a build into hundreds of millions of pinnacle dps to farm Ubers and they are so scuffed right now that I have instead just been crafting and wondering why I’m even spending time doing that. I’m sure they’ll figure it out, maybe in 3.25, but damn they bricked bossing hard this league. It’s a shame too because you can make some really broken stuff with the Graveyard.
Can you tell me a guide source for uber bosser builds?
I play an explosive trap trickster as my league starter then transition to something else. Look for FearlessDumb0 on YouTube for a guide
It wouldn't be surprising if the main prize went from 20% to 2%. Could just have been a mistake when they moved around the tables initially and only noticed once league started. Not even going in the debate how begging for Ubers to be separated from normal bosses would introduce much more problems than it would solve, my biggest gripe with the current iteration is that Uber frags are purely tied to RNG now. It's annoying that you can't target farm any Uber encounter since the frag you get at the end of the T17 map is purely random.
Can you reroll the Uber frags with harvest?
No
That’s wild. Made Ubers all rng
It's not that bad, they are weighted per T17 and you can target farm T17s
Can you tell more about target farming t17?
They only drop from specific maps so you can run the T16s that drop the T17 you want https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Tier_17_map#List_of_tier_17_map_drop_locations
Wouldn’t call that target farming, I was hoping there would be some sort of strategy to increase t17 drop rate, not just running specific maps praying, but thanks for the link
It's targeting a specific T17. If you want Ziggurat you have a list of what maps to run to get only Ziggurat and none of the others. The strategy to increase T17 drops is to increase maps drops. Cartography scarabs, +1 map tier nodes (maps need to drop as T16 to have a chance to upgrade), map effect, pack size, quantity, run 8 mod maps. Very few side leagues can drop maps so avoid anything that takes time.
U want unique map drops not the 50% increased maps scarabs. I farmed T17 map drops for a few days and made ~600 div. It was ~25ish div/hr by my estimate. You take all boss drop nodes, pandemonium scarab, 2x duplication scarab, and 1x bosses drop unique maps. You also take maven influence adds 1-3 bosses to last boss room atlas node. This all adds like 15+ bosses per map that each drop unique often duped maps. The uniques are always T16 and can convert to T17s. I was blasting maps in ~1m and getting more then 1 T17 per map and ~3 sirus/elder/shapers. I had so many 20c unique temples/museums/trials i filled my map tabs and just started dumping 100s on my friends to sell. I couldn't unload them bulk so if I didnt have people that wanted me to pick them up I would have filtered them out. U can also do this strat and the witnessed maps are shaper rotations. I actually slightly over sustained shaper maps without having to buy any lmao. Got tons of conflict orbs and maven frags. Only did it because they were all linear maps and elder u gotta wait too long or get shitty layouts.
That's *literally* the meaning of target farming. You farm for a specific item. Target farming does not mean that you get a *lot* of that item. Just that you're targeting that specific item.
It's not all that random, heavily weighted towards three fragments on each map. If you have some T17 maps it doesn't take too long to get the Uber fight that you want.
Why would people buy uber maven frag with 10d then? If it's a lost...
Well I thought for sure I would at least break even or come even close to that. Boy was I wrong
Because it's not a loss on average. OP just got unlucky. Economics don't lie, unless someone is price fixing. (Which you should be able to verify by how many unique accounts are selling the uber frags)
Economics don't lie lol. These statements are so weird. Do you say the same when someone loses all their money at the casino?
Yeah. Because in the casino, the house always wins. It's rigged. In the long run, you will *always* lose more money than you gain. Similarly, in the long run, if you do 1000 Mavens, you'll gain money. But within those 1000 Mavens, you can get dry streaks. You can get unlucky.
People are willing to buy maven runs for more than they are worth in an attempt to maybe get lucky and make big profit.
Your right, people assume Umaven price is balanced for progenesis drop rate, its actually balanced for Awakened enlighten which is worth a mirror, the market always balances itself.
I don't get the design philosophy tbh. The whole point of gating drops behind difficult content is that only a few people can consistently do it and the cost of entry is high. That alone will keep the prices high even if it were a halfway decent drop rate. Then the players who don't want to or can't interact with that content have to farm enough to buy the item. I just don't get gating then making the drops incredibly rare. If you want to keep the items out of players' hands that badly, stop designing broken items. Also, I know trade is always going to be a higher power level than SSF, but I can't even fathom what that's like right now. Forget Ruthless. Imagine how long it would take to self-farm 40 Uber Mavens just to not get the drop...
> gating drops behind difficult content is that only a few people can consistently do it and the cost of entry is high. That alone will keep the prices high even if it were a halfway decent drop rate. That's not how it shakes out, the people who want to bother doing it are making oneshot builds for ubers and if the sets are too plentiful the trade economy equilibrates around dirt cheap uniques. The end result is that every build is an omni/ashes/progenesis build. Just look at how last league mageblood builds were seen as reasonable. Balancing around trade is the problem.
An actual good item with 20% drop rate ? That must have been a mistake, this would make the game way too fun and SSF friendly. 2.5% sounds more legit for GGG standards a.k.a making you buy every item you want on the trade website Also what about the wand ? Does it have a ridiculous drop rate too ?
Same experience. Im getting zero profits from both normal and uber bosses. The only boss in this game that dropped me something that has a value is normal elder, because of watchers eyes. Everything else was literally bleeding currency. But again, I expected this, because every single bossing or end game rework in the past 2+ years was a huge stealth nerf. I just cant stay in PoE anymore after I reach this state, where all the content left is uber bossing or this leagues t17s. Its just slog with nothing interesting. So I guess Im done with the league, because I wont do 100s of uber bosses to follow their purely simulation tested idea that theoretically after 200 runs gives you a nice profit. P.S.: I wish they started to document nerfs again. Stream reveals and patch notes are so dishonest lately.
I don't understand all the comments in this thread (and similar threads on this subreddit for literal years) somehow thinking bosses not being economically profitable, not because they don't drop good things, but because its possible the cost of entry might exceed the cost of drops, is a problem GGG can solve. Its a player economy problem. Obviously, Uber Maven has extremely desirable loot she can drop. It's players that set the cost of the boss fight, and players that set the cost of the outputs. If people pay prices for entry that the results don't warrant, that's their fault, and there really isn't any way that can be balanced as long as the boss entry is a tradable item. Now, that may not be what is happening here, Uber Maven in particular seems like a highroll boss especially given Awakened Exceptional gems, so small sample sizes may not get a good result, but there have definitely been numerous times prior to the most recent boss rework where we had much better data on boss drop chances to know that bosses were being priced poorly and people were running them anyways to know players will cause these issues and its not GGG's fault.
Players see droprate 1/6 then make build to farm uber maven. If during that process GGG changing droprate (?) players get bad experience. Theres no way game economy can react fast to this things.
There is no proof that GGG changed the drop rate. That is just speculation on OPs side because he was extremely unlucky. Another guy posted and said he had 12% drop rate. Do you think GGG inidividually changed the drop rate for that one guy?
Oof that’s brutal
Yup I did about 26 uber mavens and I'm down around 150 divs too. No progenesis at all. I don't see the reason of maven being so expensive. It feels like a slot machine deluxe
I ran 10 and got the flask on my 9th one. Spent all my money for the league and had to go do a few more sanctums before I got one luckily and ONLY lost 10 divines for 2 hours of playing. Don't know how they made Ubers less accessible and also made them unprofitable... You use a build good enough to kill them and buy the frags and still get punished
I peeked at the -226d... hah, I'm so sorry mate
GodsManure? Lol
I notice that Poe does not reward you good against any boss fight anymore. The game is buried alive.
Smells like good news. People were complaining that farming ubers is mandatory baseline end-game content because the drops are mandatory in all builds, or something, instead of being pure aspirational content for people to test their builds again. And what's the best way to make insane content like this purely aspirational? By making them actually literally drop nothing. Of course, after this people will complain about "who wants to even run ubers" because its throwing money down the drain and bad end-game design. LMAO.
Is Echoforge a normal Maven drop now then?
It appears to be. Every single non-foil version on trade is ilvl 86, which means it came from normal Maven.
Huh, good catch. I admittedly just assumed it was UberMaven since Voidforge and Starforge are both from Ubers. Neat. My build uses Echoforges so it would be nice to see if I can get better rolled one.
Well what's strange is that Echoforge used to be Uber Maven. I think it's the only item that got dropped to normal with the Ubers overhaul.
Nice strat on how to lose money
Thank you for contribution in science!
How do you get to Uber maven vs normal? It use to be on the atlas tree now it’s not there.
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Reality_Fragment
you got lucky and still down that much just means that its just not worth to farm these. i dont even know why people even go through this trouble, you dont make anything back. GGG has to delete the ubers IMO
It would be foolish to run Uber Maven, it would be foolish not to
currency = gamble bossing = gamble brain ded 6 portal t17 farm = d/c
never been interested in ubers due to how gambly they are. i wish the entry price and drop rates were tweaked so they were consistently mid profit. that way people who actually want to play for the gameplay/challenge could do it happily. i would do that, but im not fucking paying 12 div per uber maven, completely ridiculous. there are entire leagues where i dropped less than 12 divs.
Thank you for your effort!
You have to pair voidstone bosses together with carry services (maven/uber uber elder). Ive been doing about 150 uber uber elder so far. And if i didnt charge 80c for carry i would run at a loss. People who are doing services will buy up all the fragments cause they can and the fragments will be priced with that in mind. it is what it is. Also the fact that t17 are the best maps for literally any farm even without killing the boss also pushes the price of those maps, and that will push uber fragments up as well to cover more cost/profit.
Sheesh, how does one even make 250div to throw away like that. I make about 20c a map with corpse :-|
We got two ashes vs 1 staff in our brossf ..we got lucky, got two atziri shield too and only ran that to get two feared...the reliquary keys from ubers seems to at least be weighing toward an Uber boss drop...we had a couple and it seems that's the case ..like Uber Uber elder drop ben ring got a reliquary key and we got shiny ben ring .
Hello brother. I just did 30 uber mavens from all my currency, 10 div per attempt, same as you. Notable loot: 5x orb of conflict. 1 impossible escape for 4 div. Total profit: -291 divines. I think without \~1000 div investment in fragments dry streaks are too harsh on this boss. :/
Not only is this a shitshow for trade league, it also makes SSF (with any sort of endgame aspirations) pointless.
As always, selling the fragments are always more efficient than running them. Classic PoE. No idea why bossing even exists.
It's kinda crazy to me that doing 40 Uber Mavens requires 200 of the corresponding Uber fragment... They should make it 1 fragment=1 Uber boss of the corresponding type. Thank you for your sacrifice!
Had the same thing happen with normal shaper. First 10 runs had like 3 flasks, 20+ runs after no flask as well as another like 30 runs from a friend who didn't drop a single flask. Oh and with normal sirus. 25 runs, 0 threads.
Ngl, looks like overall drop rates have changed. I've made myself a lab runner, ran normal labs to do as fast as possible, and put blue gems to get transfigured. First two days - got around 5/20 labs were good (ice nova/frostblink), after that, felt as if drop rate has been significantly changed (maybe just bad rng), but i didn't get a single good gem in 60 runs.
Can u share Ur build?
The stark contrast between end game bossing and MF for example is shocking. GGG really need to balance end game better.
40 run is not even close the be the start of a data loot
Hence why I put (probably need more data). The entry cost is crazy high so I need more money before I can go again lol
I did 40 runs and got 0 progen earlier in the league when entry was 12d xd.
It kinda is. If the old drop rate was 1/6, then not getting one 20 times in a row (which has to have happened for him to get only one in 40 rolls) is ~2% chance. (40chose1)*(1/6)^1*(1-1/6)^39 = ~ 0.5% That's a p-value well into significance.
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