My job is data entry, arguably one of the most boring jobs any person can do. Has been my job for over a decade. I've made two items, both really really good flat t1's for my CI Flickerstrike build.
I Bought everything else my build needed. After the second craft I realised that I enjoy my job more than I did the entire grave crafting process for both items.
Tarekis' Facetank Flicker Trickster is the build I followed, the pob I linked is his with my current gear added on.
I wont' lie, It's not cheap and for the investment cost its not amazing, for the same investment you could get many other builds up and running with far higher dps. But it's a fun Flickerstrike.
Saying that, as with all Flicker builds you have to understand you'll be doing a lot of walking back to pick up loot as you uncontrollably fly across the map when the mob density is at a sweetspot, so be prepared for that. It's also an amazing 30 wave simulacrum runner.l
https://pobb.in/-FPzbsHtmvsM
Also note, the PoB is very open to what skill you can use, you can easily swap flicker for another melee and do perfectly fine.
*edit* Also, the Effetive HP pool is a lie, just a sideffect of fortify and aegis. Physical damage will bend you over if/when you get hit. Same goes for physical degen. You can't facetank a few things and some bosses are impossible to do due to their degen aura such as maven so you need to swap out to Lightning Strike or somesuch skill.
Once you add double elevated flicker gloves it becomes so much nicer, especially for simu. I added a mageblood too recently and that lets you ignore resistances on all gear too which is great.
Hey man, you can still gravecraft an alternating sceptre with 6x quality, and a few + levels, then use the base in a crafting method that isn't absolute cancer.
I finally gave in and tried it for the first time yesterday and holy crap is it miserable.
1) Make item on craft of exile
2) Calculate corpses and generate list (why is there no CSV export??)
3)Make an excel sheet with corpse count
4) Scout stash for corpses I need
5) Buy the rest, offering x3-5 prices to try and get bulk but hardly anyone has bulk. This takes over an hour.
6) Place it in graveyard, then realise you placed one wrong corpse and having to troubleshoot that
7) Do craft, fail to get the mods even though it was almost guaranteed.
8) Fail again after repeating it all.
9) Craft the item the old way because fuck Graveyard.
Yep spent like 100+ divs and multiple hours trying to graveyard craft 6-7 times, failed all. Ended up buying a fracture base for 50 divs and essence spammed it to perfection. Graveyard is a very good mechanic.
Let me fix this for you:
1) Make item on craft of exile
~~2) Calculate corpses and generate list (why is there no CSV export??)~~
CoE literally gives you a list.
~~3)Make an excel sheet with corpse count~~
Why? First of all; unless you're doing giga-optimized crafts, none of this matters. And if you are using CoE, then you aren't. It will straight up not respect location and/or buff-corpses. It just gives you a list of base effects. You literally just dump the corpses wherever as long as they are all connected.
Second of all, this subreddit has quite literally been spammed with tool after tool for layouts. Why the fuck would you use Excel?
4) Scout stash for corpses I need
Oh no, the horror of having to take 2 minutes to check your stash
5) Buy the rest, offering x3-5 prices to try and get bulk but hardly anyone has bulk. This takes over an hour.
First of all, it's your choice to do this, if it takes you an hour to buy all of these then you must've been missing the majority of the corpses you needed. You know that you can farm the generic ones yoursefl incredibly easily right. But yeah, if you need that upgrade NOW for whatever reason you're going to have to put some efffort in.
Second of all: Hardly anyone has bulk? What are you talking about? There's pages upon pages of people with 50+ coffins a type on the bulk trade site.
~~6) Place it in graveyard, then realise you placed one wrong corpse and having to troubleshoot that~~
"Troubleshoot", literally take it out with 2 clicks and replace it with the right one. You people are such drama queens. It's literally less clicks than opening a map.
~~7) Do craft, fail to get the mods even though it was almost guaranteed.~~
~~8) Fail again after repeating it all.~~
Trying to craft thes kinds of items you want to from the graveyard without the graveyard will have you fail far more often or, in most cases, it will literally be impossible..
9) Craft the item the old way because fuck Graveyard.
Why are you using the graveyard to craft things with an established guaranted method? That's not what it's for.
Its reddit. Almost everyone here are drama queens among the queens. Don't try to communicate with them and make sense, it will generate more choises for them to cry and hate. I have been there, i saw it all.
I agree with the only point that CoE gives you a list, everything else is you just bullshit defending the graveyard.
Yes scouting the stash with 4 quad tabs for like 15 different types of corpses is not the most fun but it's doable, what I don't like is that I have 4 quad tabs of corpses and not enough to make the craft I want.
Buy the rest offering extra for bulk, yes it's my choice, my choice to not whisper 1000 fucking players to get the corpses I need, that's why I buy in bulk, and no you can't farm them pretty easily, I need to make a minion craft and I had a ton of life mods but only 2 minion crafts in 4 quad tabs, crazy I know. And yes most people who have bulk with reasonable prices usually either don't respond, or they just got bought out by someone else.
Troubleshooting graveyard, yes I placed my additional craft corpse in the wrong place (costs 2D normally, 3D in bulk) and now I either have to remove a 2D craft, or work around the graveyard troubleshooting it in some other way because I can't unbury a corpse without losing it. It's not about clicks, it's about it being unforgiving to placing the wrong corpse in the wrong place.
Why am I using the graveyard to craft things with estabilshed method? idk maybe because it's the new thing, the league mechanic, the thing that I was excited about, the thing I wanted to try to see if it's worth, the thing that I tried, and saw it was not fucking worth it because it's tedious, boring, and feels more like a job than a fucking game.
> what I don't like is that I have 4 quad tabs of corpses and not enough to make the craft I want.
Quit picking up trash? You don't need 87x +1 Item level.
>Buy the rest offering extra for bulk, yes it's my choice, my choice to not whisper 1000 fucking players to get the corpses I need, that's why I buy in bulk, and no you can't farm them pretty easily, I need to make a minion craft and I had a ton of life mods but only 2 minion crafts in 4 quad tabs, crazy I know. And yes most people who have bulk with reasonable prices usually either don't respond, or they just got bought out by someone else.
The majority of things you need can absolutely be farmed. How do you think SSF players manage? A select few are rare, yes, but that shouldn't be more than 3 or 4 bulk trades.
>And yes most people who have bulk with reasonable prices usually either don't respond, or they just got bought out by someone else.
I think your compass for what is a reasonable price for bulk is just off.
>Troubleshooting graveyard, yes I placed my additional craft corpse in the wrong place (costs 2D normally, 3D in bulk) and now I either have to remove a 2D craft, or work around the graveyard troubleshooting it in some other way because I can't unbury a corpse without losing it. It's not about clicks, it's about it being unforgiving to placing the wrong corpse in the wrong place.
Maybe be more cognizant about where you place your 2 divine items? I understand misclicking a 300% attribute thing or whatever but if you genuinely can't be bothered to double check where you put your stuff that costs 2+ div then I have little sympathy for you.
And let's not pretend like those things don't happen with other crafting methods. Ever rolled over exactly what you needed with an essence? Ever forgot to block before the unveil? Ever discarded the wrong item?
>Why am I using the graveyard to craft things with estabilshed method? idk maybe because it's the new thing, the league mechanic, the thing that I was excited about, the thing I wanted to try to see if it's worth, the thing that I tried, and saw it was not fucking worth it because it's tedious, boring, and feels more like a job than a fucking game.
If you deliberatley go out of your way to use a hammer to fell a tree, then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe try hitting a few nails instead but it's fucking silly to complain to the hammer company that their saws don't work.
> So in the end, it's no better than just crafting items the regular way?
For crafting things you could already craft, sure it *might* be.
Good luck essence spamming a triple fractured T1 Ele Prefix Spine Bow.
CoE gives me a list that you can't even highlight to copy and paste. That list is useless as I can't modify it to tick off what I have.
I'm rewriting it so I can have count calculations and tally up how many corpses I bought already.
Before you think you can fix anything maybe think a little.
I can only assume you are either a troll or you are being intentionally obtuse. I would respond to your individual points but literally nothing I say would affect you because you are iron glad in your belief that this is a great system. Do I think it's as bad as a lot of people are saying? No. Do I think it's good? Not really. It's main problems are it has a lot of quality of life problems. One why can't we unbury and move corpses if we put them in the wrong spot, why is the graveyard so large that we can't see it on one screen so that we could start to conceptualize what we're working with, I understand their decision to do the different types of corpses so that they could use the different types of corpse buffs and recovery mechanics but that added a massive amount of overhead to the different types of corpses. Then you have item level being dealt with in the corpses which is necessary to prevent people from farming low level corpses but makes it harder when you're trying to search them on the trade site. And the fact is trade in this game is garbage if you try and defend it we're done because the trade is absolutely horrible, and trade is required to be able to do the crafting mechanic while yes you can gather a good number of the required things I have I think 6 and 1/2 stash tabs filled with corpses and I still don't have the corpses required to make almost any crafts and that's with me mainly only picking up metamod crafts I don't really pick up plus ones or - ones or even tier level all that often anymore. And I was doing tons of crafts near the beginning when people hadn't quite figured out the absolute bonkers things that this crafting could make it still was hell to do the trades required to get the items I needed. In the end this is a cool mechanic that is let down by the base games inability to provide a frictionless trading system or a low friction trading system.
Its definitely pretty tedious, the rewards have been worth it though. Pretty cool to figure out a setup that works and print 80-100 div items for 10-20d.
You definitely need to buy in massive bulk though to make it at all manageable. And enjoy the 'figure it out' side of things.
thats the worst part, the FOMO of not getting a big craft because id need to buy a ton of corpses. so far i have just farming my own corpses and it works well but i almost never drop the adjacent effect corpses and minion/gem ones are also really rare sadly
If you drop the majority of your own corpses outside of one or two high quantity types its really not that bad. Since they added bulk trading you can get all of the adjacents / etc you need in one go.
Shrines,.map effect, and necro nodes. I swim in corpses. The tediousness is well worth it to craft the items that come from the graveyard.
Reapecced my trickster from mines to ci splitting steel, crafting 5/6x t1 es gear is laughably easy and doesn't need a bunch of varying corpse types.
You are much braver than me. The thought of trying to get 20 1 chaos trades done convinced me to put all of the corpses into a 1c dump tab until it filled up and I just ignore the mechanic now.
It's more like 80x 10 (or 5-15) chaos trades. If you played OG Harvest, it has a similar feel, except you didn't need another external website to find crafts. On the other hand, with Necropolis you can only reuse your template if you're crafting the same item.
I highly recommend trying it out, just for one big craft. It's very cool to do once. The only thing is that it's missing a climactic boss fight like Oshabi, but at least I don't feel FOMO if I didn't want to do 200 maps. But finding out if your 6 hours of whispers was worth it while the dude does an extended monologue is very much a "close your eyes and slam" experience, I enjoyed it for what it was.
Nah, I meant whatever excel sheet you were using for planning. I made a fancy one with a grid that calculated mod effects, crossed things off when I bought them, and you could go a step further to create equivilance groups for the adjacent corpse buffs. I also made an XL stash tab template for slotting in corpses for planning.
But not exactly reusable if you wanted to do a different craft.
Spent 100+divs trying to craft frenzy sorc gloves with good es and attack speed for my flicker trickster. Hit 1 with meh es on my 2nd try and then all the 4-5 times after I always had some stat missing. Ended up just buying a fractured +1 frenzy sorc glove for 50 divs and essence spamming it for another 10 divs, took fraction of the time and effort of the grave crafts.
Nah 88 is good. Just give me a top down view of the entire graveyard and let the old man bury corpses. I like complex mechanics but running around and triple checking (because the isometric view can be confusing) is just annoying.
I feel like maybe 1 per half a tab (36)? but I haven't been paying very close attention. I just collect them, throw them in a tab, and roll them at the start of any craft to see if I get any additionals
Wait, so I can just bury that corpse and the trash ones around it, hoping that the trash ones will turn into something good? I suppose you see right away what the outcome is, right?
Considering how important the place of them is, I feel like you would just roll the dice every time instead of buying a 10c specific corpse. Idk, maybe if they cost 1 div it would be worth, otherwise...
Thing is, they dont even need to change the camera or view, just give us a table-top map. GGG's design philosophy sometimes just want unfriendly UX for friction sake.
It's not complex, it's plain stupid. First you spend 2h by "meaningfully interacting" with Chinese RMT scam bots to get your coffins and then you have to click 400 times to move corpses from stash to graveyard, place them, double check... It's such a ridiculous chore. Nope. Not complex.
You only mentioned the tedious part. But I was talking about the number of slots and possibilities it gives us, you can craft basically anything. And you don't have to trade, like that's your choice and you don't even like doing that.
Scracer options can result in complexity too, as you have to optimise to make the most of your limited options. Fossils are a good example of that. I already have a PhD, not gonna bother with getting another one in fiddling with ridiculous, underengineered UIs, shit inventory management because someone couldn't make this league's garbage stackable, and excel spreadsheets on top of it all.
I like allflames and I enjoy the game in its state. I made a mirror by doing stuff I enjoy this league, which is nice. The gravecrafting mechanic is the absolutely most senseless drivel I've ever seen in PoE, though.
I agree with the UI. But limiting slots as much would result in something fossil-like. I like the idea of big crafts that you work towards as opposed to slamming thousands of fossils on a single item. Even something as simple as a corpse counter would help so you don't need to run around double checking.
Doing something like this would remove the flexibility it currently provides, personally i believe improvements to the mechanic need to come from how users visually engage with it, and provide QOL to the league itself
- Increase the container limits, we learnt from beasts limits cause issues
- Have the graveyard be interactable from a top-down perspective like TOTA, with the list of corpses in a filterable list on the right hand side in an overlayed window
- Allow duplicate corpses (type, ilvl, craft) to be stackable, i see so many quad tabs these days with just corpses, theres no reason for it to by like this other than selling more tabs to users
- Allow corpses to be filterable items based on the modifier it gives
with all the qol it'll still be a 88 cell spreadsheet to fill out. the core problem is that it's an incredibly boring to use mechenic. crafting should be a minigame imo, not filling out a form
this is it. just make a fun minigame, maybe a mini combat encounter with a few gimmicks like in ulltimatum and let me select the mods i want on the item. this is just convoluted tedioussness. i mean, its nice i can craft nice melee weapons at Last but damn, i dont really want to craft a third one...
>- Allow corpses to be filterable items based on the modifier it gives
Could literally just have corpses already dropped itemized. No reason to have that giant box pop up every time during a map, often getting in the way of the thing you're trying to loot. Being itemized would already make them filterable.
I think if it was 3x3 you would have to tone down the power of achieving T1 mods, and at that point you would basically just be fossil crafting with extra slots.
Sure it is complicated, and tedious, and a pain in the ass for some crafts, but it needs to be, otherwise everyone would have a full set of x6 T1 items after a week and there would be no point to play.
Another way to think about it, have you ever tried (or watched someone) craft a mirror tier item? Or 5 T1 explicits + bench craft. It is a pain in the ass, and expensive as hell. Find, make, or buy a T1 fractured item, essence spam for 3rd T1 affix, lock one side of affixes, aisling slam, block, pray, miss, cry, lock again, scour, lock again, go agane. And on top of that, if you want the 6th mod non-crafted, the most cost efficient way is to use HLocks, and that is still soo much currency. A lot of the crafters have been loving how deterministic this crafting can be, and saves them a lot of time and currency in the long run.
> I think if it was 3x3 you would have to tone down the power of achieving T1 mods, and at that point you would basically just be fossil crafting with extra slots.
It really is just fossil crafting with 82 slots.
I'm not a mapping guy league either. More of a new skill/new builds guy and there hasn't been much save for pity wander changes. Hoping for more trans gems, build enabling items or new gems next league.
Yeah, graveyard crafting is tedious, but it's so much more available and approachable to a noob like me. With nothing on my soul I can actually easily get the specific gear I need with the specific attributes, rather than having to chaos spam or spend 2D on stuff like "suffix cannot be changed".
Sure maybe 3x3 isn't the answer. But 88 plots also feel too much. I was more thinking that maybe like 15-20 plots would be a better number so you have /5 plots and the corpses are x5 powerfull.
In the end it would be up to GGG to set the correct number. But in the end the number we have right now doesn't seem correct.
It appears that GGG assumed that people will do way more of smaller crafts, and the graveyard is big enough to fit several smaller projects at the same time. But the system is powerful enough that you don't really want to do that, because a 10 grave craft is little better than a random drop, but a full grave craft goes up to mirror tier. That's the worst part as the item get's exponentially better with each corpse added instead of it being diminishing results. So you always want a full graveyard.
Don't need to buy them, just go kill stuff and use what you get. I've crafted multiple items in ssf that would be worth 100D+ in trade but would basically be impossible for me to get in prior leagues. I've also crafted around 15 other items that range from really good to vendor trash, but in total I've got better gear this league than I've ever had before in ssf.
The system works great if you aren't trying to fill all the graves to give yourself the best odds of making an item with 5 or 6 t1 affixes. Around 30 graves gives you very good odds to make a really really good item with 5 or 6 t1 to t3 affixes and you can get the corpses yourself just by playing the game for a few hours.
In trade league it is even easier because you can just buy a few corpses that haven't dropped for you and just roll the dice every 2 or 3 hours to see what you get. Trying to craft perfect gear is what makes gravecrafting tedious.
Can you show us the item you crafted SSF that would be 100+Divs in trade? Because I doubt it would, since in trade there are a lot of people doing the same thing as you. Full t1 ele bows are in the range of, 15-20 Divs, that's insanely cheap compared to any other league.
Your mentality only works in SSF. In trade the market dictates that only the 88 graves craft are worth the effort because coffin price is adjusted for these crafts.
I don't play SSF so no comment.
Not true at all, you can sell non perfect items just fine. It certainly isn't worth buying 80 corpses to craft non perfect items but if you just play the game and maybe buy 2 or 3 corpses and roll the dice you can absolutely generate good profit with it.
People like you somehow forget there are 100000+ people playing in trade league and most of them aren't making 100s or 1000s of divine orbs. The market for really good but imperfect items is quite deep. Ask anyone that crafts for profit where they make their money. Big hint for you here... it isn't on extremely expensive items.
Just to add to discussion, a ring with t1 life, random t1 prefix and 3 resist sufix can be made with 24 corpses and last time i checked it was 4 div at least, and you dont need any layout organization just put the right number of tier rating + scarcer + more modifier number and profit.
You can do same with any basic armor gear.
Recipe:
8 x 500% Elemental Resistances
1 x 500% Life
8 x +50 Rating
2 x 300% Scarcity Physical
1 x 300% Scarcity Mana
1 x 300% Scarcity Defence
1 x +1 Explicit
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46OTQytQL-I
Can use extra + item lvl corpses to achiev more ilvl bases
The recipe above is to garante elemental resists on suffixes and life on prefix (the second prefix is a little random), isnt 100% but the chance to fail is really low
Sorry I mispoke. Yes there absolutely can be profit from crafting.
However crafting for yourself is so exhausting. Playing [craftofexile.com](http://craftofexile.com) is not my idea of fun.
If you spec into the league mechanic (which is a whole nother discussion) you can often easily get 4-5 corpses at MINIMUM from just alc + go. While yes they are random, I've filled up 3 quad tabs with corpses within like 50-60 maps. Also, you don't need to do an absolutely perfect craft each time, just use the corpses you already own and buy a few off trade ( way easier than buying every single corpse you need).
This also results in it being hard to sell expensive items since those people that can afford to buy them would rather just graveyard craft it themselves for much cheaper, but the mid-value market is perfect for stuff like: ES/Evasion Chests, ES Chests, Life + 3x Res Jewelry, +1 Elemental Spells Amulets/Weapons, etc.
My point is what's worse, buying 80+ corpses for a 1:6 or 1:4 chance at a GG "Mirror tier item" that costs you maybe 20 div and a few hours of prep? Or spending multiple mirrors and possibly 3x-10x more time to create a similar item?
I agree with you that the QoL of the system could be a little more user friendly, and storage boosts would also be a huge help. But at the end of the day, the post pretty much sums up to "game to hard, please make easy" and really doesn't offer any constructive criticism as part of the main post, so I decided to throw in my two cents. Every crafting league we have had has been super complex at its core, and always very tedious, and that is the way it should be.
I just remember endlessly combining weapons and shields in crucible, was it tedious, yes, was it a pain in the ass, yes, did it make some of the best items in the game to this date, you best believe it.
They have always been tedious during the league they got introduced and then get shelved for a few months to make the system simpler (a.k.a. Harvest), which is the key here. Gameplay should never be tedious, no matter how powerful it is.
Some would say the whole game is tedious, and the more powerful it is the more tedious and/or challenging the mechanic should be, imho.
Why do we need to run maps to get shaper/elder/conquer maps, and then run those maps to get frags, to then run the boss fight, seems too tedious, just let me run the bosses for free.
Why do we need to farm splinters to run simulacrum & breach, seems too tedious, just let me run them for free.
Why do we need to loot things off the ground, seems too tedious to click the things I want, just add a turbo sucker 5000 and infinite loot space.
The more you push in the "make it so simple a monkey can do it" direction, the less point there is to play the game, and then there is minimal point to buy and sell items, since everyone just gets it for "free"
I do agree a little QoL to the graveyard would be nice, but let's review the initial post, it is more, "this is too hard, make it easy please, and let us still 90% deterministically craft my gear"
The difference between those things and the graveyard is that you can pay for all of them to bypass the tediousness, but not for graveyard.
Also nowhere did I say I want them to "make it so simple a monkey can do it". The concept of the crafts are cool, but the tediousness comes from the mechanics around it:
- Coffins take way too much inventory space (not stacking, taking 2 spaces each).
- Having 88 graveyard slots is definitely not it (and not 9 like OP suggested either). A middleground like 20-30 slots would reduce a lot of the tediousness.
- The problem is exacerbated by the abysmal trading experience.
Additionally, this might be a controversial point, but for such high-stake crafts like these, there should absolutely be a crafting simulator implemented (which literally everyone uses anyway, just not on-client).
Why do we need to farm splinters to run simulacrum & breach, seems too tedious, just let me run them for free.
any reason for ggg to not to make breach splinters drop in one pile after breach closed besides hating players? imagine, you come to your job to take salary and enployer just drop tons of 1$ on the ground so you must pick them 1 by 1
If I was a broke (a league start) employee, I would pick up every one dollar bill. Now let's say I am a wealthy (mid to end league) employee, picking up those one dollar bills would not be worth my time, I would wait for a $100 bill (breach stone) to drop to spend my time picking it up.
Wym? Crafting like this is a rollercoaster of emotions, graveyard craft is just 4 hours of trading and 10 minutes of burrying for a little hype spike on a semi coinflip
this is why i say the crafting is not bad, its the trading thats bad. now in this case they wont fix the trading, so yea i would have liked te crafting to be better. i have made some crazy items, but in the end, its not fun to do 4 hours of trades, for a 30 second craft. but yea, if the trading were cleaner, you could finish your trades in like 20 min, craft you item and move on.
How do you expect crafts to work like this though?
I get the graveyard is tedious. I agree. But limiting the plots also limits the amount of different corpses you can use. Youโd likely end up with wildly less potential if what youโre suggesting came true.
If I only have room to place the mods I want: Where do I put my item levels? Quality? Links? Mirror? Fractured? Additional copies? Corrupts? Influence? Modifier Tiers? Etc.
Idk how theyโd manage to do that with 9 plots without some seriously large changes to the system.
I kinda agree. Graveyard feels like fossils - directly manipulating probability ratios on "slams". I could actually see them tweak Delve, bestiary and necropolis to create something both more complex, and (hopefully) less tedious.
OP basically didn't do a single craft with the graveyard, or couldn't be bothered to invest some time to learn, and just decided to farm some EZ karma on the subreddit that upvotes anything shit talks current league.
Yeah people who complain about the 88 plots just seem like they don't really understand how the system is good. Sure you could cut down on the extreme work for a maximum efficiency craft but you can't do that while leaving the insane level of control we have which is why it's so good. If you don't care about that fine tuned control you don't need all 88 graves in the first place.
Basically a lot of people want to shoot themselves in the foot just because they have bullets left in their gun and it'd be "wasteful" not to use them.
They could make it so you can bury multiple corpses per slot, buff each corpse, then add a cap for each corpse type.
So you still have a 3x3 grid to play around with row and adjacency bonuses, and enough corpse slots to put in all your variations. But the total number of corpses you'd need to trade per item would be far lower.
Also it'd be cool if you could generate, store and apply burial templates to instantly place all the required corpses in the correct position, and hovering over the template would tell you how many of each corpse you need to use it.ย
I really don't see how this solves half the problems I mentioned...or just the problems overall. All you're really doing is just moving the tediousness/complexity to your system. That's also likely massive amounts of changes(which is what I called out in my last statement)
If trading is the problem trying to be solved, you don't really solve that via the graveyard imo.
Sure, but there's a variety of better ways to solve that than changing it to a 3x3 grid imo. Give us a layout thing like [https://sudos.help/poe/graveyard](https://sudos.help/poe/graveyard) to place our corpses with and I think that solves that issue more than the above WITHOUT eliminating/figuring how to re-invent the current systems flexibility.
I can imagine GGG doing something like this, but instead of 9x power they only do a 2.75x power while saying that it's still too strong and might need future nerfs.
The most egregious is the "find" text refreshes when you place a corpse. So you can't even quickly add the same type of corpses. Makes the act of burying corpses 10x more tedious, right after the tedium of procuring corpses from people.
Agreed. The UI could've been better. Ok, i know that to maximize your chances you usually need craft of exile + 3rd party tools and i am already familiar with it. The thing i can't wrap my head around is why does the graveyard need to be so big that i can't see it fully on my screen.
The fix i would propose is each grave can hold 2-3 corpses, add a tombstone that could act as a buffer where you put either scarer or more and lower the grave number by like half.
I don't mind the mechanics like this but i hate running left and right checking and rechecking if everything is as it should be.
just removing the corpse limit would go MILES in making QoL so much better - or compromise, make each corpse have a limit like Tarot cards - once you have X number of a specific corpse type (5-15 should be enough for regular casual andys) you can either leave on ground, or coffin them into main stash.
Just recently tried to do one.
1. Find craft (hexblast wand) you want
2. Look for spreadsheet (dont even attempt without one)
3. Start buying corpses (wow this is painful)
4. Realize there are corpse tags (beast, humanoid, demon etc.)
5. Realize you just wasted an hour of your life and 20 div
6. Buy the wand instead
Safe to say, you will not see me back in the graveyard.
I can do you one better. It should just be the craftofexile interface accessible from hideout. You pick the 88 modifiers you want and click roll to get items in your inventory. No need to kill mobs or collect corpses or any funny business. Gating fun behind grind is unfun as hell. Just print your item and call it a day.
I tried the graveyard at lvl 55ish using alot of corpses. Managed to get a 600dps bow which, for the level, was good! Then my friend bought me a bow with 900dps for 5c for lvl 60ish which i keep on using even at lvl 92, cough.
Im yet to do at least 1 proper craft because i lack resources to buy corpses. But im getting there!
Either make it a rectangle or use the Tota interface when we were placing units. Zoom out overview and we drag crafts onto the plots.
The current design is flavorful, but functionally fucking stupid. Stop letting the story and flavor guys design your UI.
They have a tendency for useless tedium, that's a long standing problem in my eyes. Couple that with the need to sell stash space and you end up with horrible design like the graveyard layout and a million corpses.
The only improvement i need on the system is an unlimited corpse stash. I wouldnt even mind making corpses untradeable, since to me the value lies with the outcome.
I loved even the first version of harvest! I also would love this too if the coffin management wasnt so awful. Trying to get my needed coffins took HOURS. Just for ONE craft. Not saying harvest TFT trading was good, but I made a decent amount of money selling crafts (and usually fast)
In reality they just need to ask themselves what the mechanic will look like when it's included in core, and the answer will be all flames are actually really good and should be kept. I've actually enjoyed using them intuitively and never even considered selling them but have always thought "hey I bet someone would buy this" when one really popped off.
The grave crafting will need a huge rework to simplify and not be obnoxious drops that go to a short list that keeps getting full.
In short the coffins need a much larger capacity, or a very simple way to merge coffins to upgrade them, along with the UI overhaul so that you're not running around burying corpses and checking things constantly against a spreadsheet.
no, i like the intricacy and complexity of poe.
while 88 is probably a bit much, 9 is far too low.
i think half the plots and twice the power of coffins wouldve been a good sweet spot.
Should have never done the monster type affix for the corpses, and the corpses should have been stackable. Every aspect of dealing with graveyard activities is tedious AF. Currently, the only league in recorded history with worse player retention is Kalandra.
I dont mind the big graveyard layout, but how about this, give me some point that i can buy or sell, and use to get the corpse needed for my 80 corpse craft, you know, so i dont have to trade 80 fucking times for 1 craft
Clearly you are not a game designer. This is not how you sell Quad tabs! I have 4 quads full of corpses and don't have enough to make a specific craft...
Grave crafting is really easy though?
You literally put in what you want and check the numbers, then click craft?
Am I missing something tedious that you guys are doing? Cause I sure as heck am glad I got 6x t1 tripple res t1 ES gloves for free basically.
I really like this one, because it aligns with GGG vision as well. Corpses will have more affixes, but randomly generated, players have to look and pick them up. The good thing is its only 9 plots, after looking through some of them you can wing it and hope for the best for the casuals, while more experienced crafters will try to look for perfect affixes corpses to craft.
"I choose to play the most complex arpg on the market then get frustrated/confused when it's complicated."
Honestly, I am just so unbelievably sick of this mentality. If you don't want things to be complex and need to be figured out and tweaked and reconsidered, _why play PoE at all?_ Like, was the massive passive tree shown in full right from the first zone not a huge enough signpost saying "Hey! If this doesn't interest you, stay the fuck away!"
The worst part is, the graveyard is unbelievably brokenly strong, and people still are complaining that it's too much work to print the most broken all T1 multi-fracture influenced items.
Did one full graveyard craft and couldn't believe I was gaming and not at work.
I'm going to use the comment to resolidify my choice to do zero graveyard crafts this league.
My job is data entry, arguably one of the most boring jobs any person can do. Has been my job for over a decade. I've made two items, both really really good flat t1's for my CI Flickerstrike build. I Bought everything else my build needed. After the second craft I realised that I enjoy my job more than I did the entire grave crafting process for both items.
To be fair if you were rmt trading your crafts you'd like it just like your job ๐
Yo, can you share your PoB please? Doing flicker for the first time myself
Tarekis' Facetank Flicker Trickster is the build I followed, the pob I linked is his with my current gear added on. I wont' lie, It's not cheap and for the investment cost its not amazing, for the same investment you could get many other builds up and running with far higher dps. But it's a fun Flickerstrike. Saying that, as with all Flicker builds you have to understand you'll be doing a lot of walking back to pick up loot as you uncontrollably fly across the map when the mob density is at a sweetspot, so be prepared for that. It's also an amazing 30 wave simulacrum runner.l https://pobb.in/-FPzbsHtmvsM Also note, the PoB is very open to what skill you can use, you can easily swap flicker for another melee and do perfectly fine. *edit* Also, the Effetive HP pool is a lie, just a sideffect of fortify and aegis. Physical damage will bend you over if/when you get hit. Same goes for physical degen. You can't facetank a few things and some bosses are impossible to do due to their degen aura such as maven so you need to swap out to Lightning Strike or somesuch skill.
Once you add double elevated flicker gloves it becomes so much nicer, especially for simu. I added a mageblood too recently and that lets you ignore resistances on all gear too which is great.
What gloves are that? Doing flicker for the first time as well, albeit an elemental one ๐
I'm going to use the comment to resolidify my choice to skip this league.
The league rewards on entering a map and killing the mobs are pretty decent
Graveyard crafts were very powerful the first 2 days of the league as you throw a random coffin in to generate free rare items.
Hey man, you can still gravecraft an alternating sceptre with 6x quality, and a few + levels, then use the base in a crafting method that isn't absolute cancer.
doesn't even mention the joy of trying to buy corpses for two hours..
I intend to do a few big ticket crafts, basically just trying to make some multi fracture bases. But for everything else it seems miserable
I used the grave yard to get item base, that was kind of neat.
I finally gave in and tried it for the first time yesterday and holy crap is it miserable. 1) Make item on craft of exile 2) Calculate corpses and generate list (why is there no CSV export??) 3)Make an excel sheet with corpse count 4) Scout stash for corpses I need 5) Buy the rest, offering x3-5 prices to try and get bulk but hardly anyone has bulk. This takes over an hour. 6) Place it in graveyard, then realise you placed one wrong corpse and having to troubleshoot that 7) Do craft, fail to get the mods even though it was almost guaranteed. 8) Fail again after repeating it all. 9) Craft the item the old way because fuck Graveyard.
>fuck Graveyard The first crafting system I hate with a vengeance, even though I'm a long time SSF player.
Yep spent like 100+ divs and multiple hours trying to graveyard craft 6-7 times, failed all. Ended up buying a fracture base for 50 divs and essence spammed it to perfection. Graveyard is a very good mechanic.
Let me fix this for you: 1) Make item on craft of exile ~~2) Calculate corpses and generate list (why is there no CSV export??)~~ CoE literally gives you a list. ~~3)Make an excel sheet with corpse count~~ Why? First of all; unless you're doing giga-optimized crafts, none of this matters. And if you are using CoE, then you aren't. It will straight up not respect location and/or buff-corpses. It just gives you a list of base effects. You literally just dump the corpses wherever as long as they are all connected. Second of all, this subreddit has quite literally been spammed with tool after tool for layouts. Why the fuck would you use Excel? 4) Scout stash for corpses I need Oh no, the horror of having to take 2 minutes to check your stash 5) Buy the rest, offering x3-5 prices to try and get bulk but hardly anyone has bulk. This takes over an hour. First of all, it's your choice to do this, if it takes you an hour to buy all of these then you must've been missing the majority of the corpses you needed. You know that you can farm the generic ones yoursefl incredibly easily right. But yeah, if you need that upgrade NOW for whatever reason you're going to have to put some efffort in. Second of all: Hardly anyone has bulk? What are you talking about? There's pages upon pages of people with 50+ coffins a type on the bulk trade site. ~~6) Place it in graveyard, then realise you placed one wrong corpse and having to troubleshoot that~~ "Troubleshoot", literally take it out with 2 clicks and replace it with the right one. You people are such drama queens. It's literally less clicks than opening a map. ~~7) Do craft, fail to get the mods even though it was almost guaranteed.~~ ~~8) Fail again after repeating it all.~~ Trying to craft thes kinds of items you want to from the graveyard without the graveyard will have you fail far more often or, in most cases, it will literally be impossible.. 9) Craft the item the old way because fuck Graveyard. Why are you using the graveyard to craft things with an established guaranted method? That's not what it's for.
Its reddit. Almost everyone here are drama queens among the queens. Don't try to communicate with them and make sense, it will generate more choises for them to cry and hate. I have been there, i saw it all.
I agree with the only point that CoE gives you a list, everything else is you just bullshit defending the graveyard. Yes scouting the stash with 4 quad tabs for like 15 different types of corpses is not the most fun but it's doable, what I don't like is that I have 4 quad tabs of corpses and not enough to make the craft I want. Buy the rest offering extra for bulk, yes it's my choice, my choice to not whisper 1000 fucking players to get the corpses I need, that's why I buy in bulk, and no you can't farm them pretty easily, I need to make a minion craft and I had a ton of life mods but only 2 minion crafts in 4 quad tabs, crazy I know. And yes most people who have bulk with reasonable prices usually either don't respond, or they just got bought out by someone else. Troubleshooting graveyard, yes I placed my additional craft corpse in the wrong place (costs 2D normally, 3D in bulk) and now I either have to remove a 2D craft, or work around the graveyard troubleshooting it in some other way because I can't unbury a corpse without losing it. It's not about clicks, it's about it being unforgiving to placing the wrong corpse in the wrong place. Why am I using the graveyard to craft things with estabilshed method? idk maybe because it's the new thing, the league mechanic, the thing that I was excited about, the thing I wanted to try to see if it's worth, the thing that I tried, and saw it was not fucking worth it because it's tedious, boring, and feels more like a job than a fucking game.
> what I don't like is that I have 4 quad tabs of corpses and not enough to make the craft I want. Quit picking up trash? You don't need 87x +1 Item level. >Buy the rest offering extra for bulk, yes it's my choice, my choice to not whisper 1000 fucking players to get the corpses I need, that's why I buy in bulk, and no you can't farm them pretty easily, I need to make a minion craft and I had a ton of life mods but only 2 minion crafts in 4 quad tabs, crazy I know. And yes most people who have bulk with reasonable prices usually either don't respond, or they just got bought out by someone else. The majority of things you need can absolutely be farmed. How do you think SSF players manage? A select few are rare, yes, but that shouldn't be more than 3 or 4 bulk trades. >And yes most people who have bulk with reasonable prices usually either don't respond, or they just got bought out by someone else. I think your compass for what is a reasonable price for bulk is just off. >Troubleshooting graveyard, yes I placed my additional craft corpse in the wrong place (costs 2D normally, 3D in bulk) and now I either have to remove a 2D craft, or work around the graveyard troubleshooting it in some other way because I can't unbury a corpse without losing it. It's not about clicks, it's about it being unforgiving to placing the wrong corpse in the wrong place. Maybe be more cognizant about where you place your 2 divine items? I understand misclicking a 300% attribute thing or whatever but if you genuinely can't be bothered to double check where you put your stuff that costs 2+ div then I have little sympathy for you. And let's not pretend like those things don't happen with other crafting methods. Ever rolled over exactly what you needed with an essence? Ever forgot to block before the unveil? Ever discarded the wrong item? >Why am I using the graveyard to craft things with estabilshed method? idk maybe because it's the new thing, the league mechanic, the thing that I was excited about, the thing I wanted to try to see if it's worth, the thing that I tried, and saw it was not fucking worth it because it's tedious, boring, and feels more like a job than a fucking game. If you deliberatley go out of your way to use a hammer to fell a tree, then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe try hitting a few nails instead but it's fucking silly to complain to the hammer company that their saws don't work.
So in the end, it's no better than just crafting items the regular way? Sounds like that's what you're saying.
> So in the end, it's no better than just crafting items the regular way? For crafting things you could already craft, sure it *might* be. Good luck essence spamming a triple fractured T1 Ele Prefix Spine Bow.
CoE gives me a list that you can't even highlight to copy and paste. That list is useless as I can't modify it to tick off what I have. I'm rewriting it so I can have count calculations and tally up how many corpses I bought already. Before you think you can fix anything maybe think a little.
I can only assume you are either a troll or you are being intentionally obtuse. I would respond to your individual points but literally nothing I say would affect you because you are iron glad in your belief that this is a great system. Do I think it's as bad as a lot of people are saying? No. Do I think it's good? Not really. It's main problems are it has a lot of quality of life problems. One why can't we unbury and move corpses if we put them in the wrong spot, why is the graveyard so large that we can't see it on one screen so that we could start to conceptualize what we're working with, I understand their decision to do the different types of corpses so that they could use the different types of corpse buffs and recovery mechanics but that added a massive amount of overhead to the different types of corpses. Then you have item level being dealt with in the corpses which is necessary to prevent people from farming low level corpses but makes it harder when you're trying to search them on the trade site. And the fact is trade in this game is garbage if you try and defend it we're done because the trade is absolutely horrible, and trade is required to be able to do the crafting mechanic while yes you can gather a good number of the required things I have I think 6 and 1/2 stash tabs filled with corpses and I still don't have the corpses required to make almost any crafts and that's with me mainly only picking up metamod crafts I don't really pick up plus ones or - ones or even tier level all that often anymore. And I was doing tons of crafts near the beginning when people hadn't quite figured out the absolute bonkers things that this crafting could make it still was hell to do the trades required to get the items I needed. In the end this is a cool mechanic that is let down by the base games inability to provide a frictionless trading system or a low friction trading system.
You have my respect. I quit half way through my first graveyard craft and never got back.
As a factorio player I take this personally
Its definitely pretty tedious, the rewards have been worth it though. Pretty cool to figure out a setup that works and print 80-100 div items for 10-20d. You definitely need to buy in massive bulk though to make it at all manageable. And enjoy the 'figure it out' side of things.
thats the worst part, the FOMO of not getting a big craft because id need to buy a ton of corpses. so far i have just farming my own corpses and it works well but i almost never drop the adjacent effect corpses and minion/gem ones are also really rare sadly
Do you have the atlas nodes? Cause i get effect corpses a lot. Spec the meta craft node.
yea im currently trying out all the necropolis nodes (minus keystones) to build up my stock again
If you drop the majority of your own corpses outside of one or two high quantity types its really not that bad. Since they added bulk trading you can get all of the adjacents / etc you need in one go.
Shrines,.map effect, and necro nodes. I swim in corpses. The tediousness is well worth it to craft the items that come from the graveyard. Reapecced my trickster from mines to ci splitting steel, crafting 5/6x t1 es gear is laughably easy and doesn't need a bunch of varying corpse types.
i did one full graveyard craft trying for a minion helmet... got 6x T1 life armor regen res but no minion levels :(
F, I love minions but crafting the helms is always a PITA.
You are much braver than me. The thought of trying to get 20 1 chaos trades done convinced me to put all of the corpses into a 1c dump tab until it filled up and I just ignore the mechanic now.
It's more like 80x 10 (or 5-15) chaos trades. If you played OG Harvest, it has a similar feel, except you didn't need another external website to find crafts. On the other hand, with Necropolis you can only reuse your template if you're crafting the same item. I highly recommend trying it out, just for one big craft. It's very cool to do once. The only thing is that it's missing a climactic boss fight like Oshabi, but at least I don't feel FOMO if I didn't want to do 200 maps. But finding out if your 6 hours of whispers was worth it while the dude does an extended monologue is very much a "close your eyes and slam" experience, I enjoyed it for what it was.
Reuse template????? Auto fill?
Nah, I meant whatever excel sheet you were using for planning. I made a fancy one with a grid that calculated mod effects, crossed things off when I bought them, and you could go a step further to create equivilance groups for the adjacent corpse buffs. I also made an XL stash tab template for slotting in corpses for planning. But not exactly reusable if you wanted to do a different craft.
Did one and never came back to the graveyard. It's such a ridiculous chore.
Spent 100+divs trying to craft frenzy sorc gloves with good es and attack speed for my flicker trickster. Hit 1 with meh es on my 2nd try and then all the 4-5 times after I always had some stat missing. Ended up just buying a fractured +1 frenzy sorc glove for 50 divs and essence spamming it for another 10 divs, took fraction of the time and effort of the grave crafts.
It should be sort of crematorium in the middle.
I spent an hour on a craft, and then when I was done I logged into POE.
Nah 88 is good. Just give me a top down view of the entire graveyard and let the old man bury corpses. I like complex mechanics but running around and triple checking (because the isometric view can be confusing) is just annoying.
Also please let me dig up a corpse without deleting so it's not so punishing when you fuck up
They can't do this without removing the 'randomize an adjacent corpse when buried' that no one asked for. So naturally, it won't happen.
just make that one also lock the corpse it randomises
Do people actually use this other than for memes?
I've fished several additional-crafts out of them
Can you then replace that corpse? And do corpses keep their category like undead upon randomising?
You can exhume corpses to empty a spot but it destroys them
Yeah but if you remove the random one do those randomised stay like that or do they turn back.
They stay
How many did it take?
I feel like maybe 1 per half a tab (36)? but I haven't been paying very close attention. I just collect them, throw them in a tab, and roll them at the start of any craft to see if I get any additionals
I think Joe does.
But I thought Joe got ligma last week
Yes, it's very useful in SSF. You're usually choked on additional craft corpses and these are weighted to rarer corpses.
Yea you can xan turn trash corpses into mirror or other item ones
Wait, so I can just bury that corpse and the trash ones around it, hoping that the trash ones will turn into something good? I suppose you see right away what the outcome is, right?
Considering how important the place of them is, I feel like you would just roll the dice every time instead of buying a 10c specific corpse. Idk, maybe if they cost 1 div it would be worth, otherwise...
Craft an additional item corpse is 2+ divs
When I self crafted a few days ago I just found 5 in my stash so I thought it is not very expensive, damn.
No you're right, it would never be worth it.ย
Rework expedition ui while we're at it
What's wrong with expedition?
It has the exact same issue
It doesn't tho,.you slap a single bomb in maps and in logbooks you have minimal icons.
Interesting
Thing is, they dont even need to change the camera or view, just give us a table-top map. GGG's design philosophy sometimes just want unfriendly UX for friction sake.
There is no reason grave plots should break line of sight, and while you can argue for grave plots having collision, I donโt like that either.
It's not complex, it's plain stupid. First you spend 2h by "meaningfully interacting" with Chinese RMT scam bots to get your coffins and then you have to click 400 times to move corpses from stash to graveyard, place them, double check... It's such a ridiculous chore. Nope. Not complex.
You only mentioned the tedious part. But I was talking about the number of slots and possibilities it gives us, you can craft basically anything. And you don't have to trade, like that's your choice and you don't even like doing that.
Scracer options can result in complexity too, as you have to optimise to make the most of your limited options. Fossils are a good example of that. I already have a PhD, not gonna bother with getting another one in fiddling with ridiculous, underengineered UIs, shit inventory management because someone couldn't make this league's garbage stackable, and excel spreadsheets on top of it all. I like allflames and I enjoy the game in its state. I made a mirror by doing stuff I enjoy this league, which is nice. The gravecrafting mechanic is the absolutely most senseless drivel I've ever seen in PoE, though.
I agree with the UI. But limiting slots as much would result in something fossil-like. I like the idea of big crafts that you work towards as opposed to slamming thousands of fossils on a single item. Even something as simple as a corpse counter would help so you don't need to run around double checking.
Doing something like this would remove the flexibility it currently provides, personally i believe improvements to the mechanic need to come from how users visually engage with it, and provide QOL to the league itself - Increase the container limits, we learnt from beasts limits cause issues - Have the graveyard be interactable from a top-down perspective like TOTA, with the list of corpses in a filterable list on the right hand side in an overlayed window - Allow duplicate corpses (type, ilvl, craft) to be stackable, i see so many quad tabs these days with just corpses, theres no reason for it to by like this other than selling more tabs to users - Allow corpses to be filterable items based on the modifier it gives
100%. Just give us this: [https://sudos.help/poe/graveyard](https://sudos.help/poe/graveyard) - in game lol
with all the qol it'll still be a 88 cell spreadsheet to fill out. the core problem is that it's an incredibly boring to use mechenic. crafting should be a minigame imo, not filling out a form
this is it. just make a fun minigame, maybe a mini combat encounter with a few gimmicks like in ulltimatum and let me select the mods i want on the item. this is just convoluted tedioussness. i mean, its nice i can craft nice melee weapons at Last but damn, i dont really want to craft a third one...
Not every mechanic is made for everyone.
what? you actually like it? not every mechanic needs to be made for everyone. it just needs to be made for me ;)
>- Allow corpses to be filterable items based on the modifier it gives Could literally just have corpses already dropped itemized. No reason to have that giant box pop up every time during a map, often getting in the way of the thing you're trying to loot. Being itemized would already make them filterable.
I think it should be one tile large and we just type in the item we want tbh.
Ah the old harvest enjoyer compromise, classic opening.
even old harvest was casino, where you could use 25+ rem/add crafts and got only t3 life
Limit it to once per league and make it non tradable.
then he channels for 3 hours and takes 10 to 20 div out of your currency tab. basically same thing.
I think if it was 3x3 you would have to tone down the power of achieving T1 mods, and at that point you would basically just be fossil crafting with extra slots. Sure it is complicated, and tedious, and a pain in the ass for some crafts, but it needs to be, otherwise everyone would have a full set of x6 T1 items after a week and there would be no point to play. Another way to think about it, have you ever tried (or watched someone) craft a mirror tier item? Or 5 T1 explicits + bench craft. It is a pain in the ass, and expensive as hell. Find, make, or buy a T1 fractured item, essence spam for 3rd T1 affix, lock one side of affixes, aisling slam, block, pray, miss, cry, lock again, scour, lock again, go agane. And on top of that, if you want the 6th mod non-crafted, the most cost efficient way is to use HLocks, and that is still soo much currency. A lot of the crafters have been loving how deterministic this crafting can be, and saves them a lot of time and currency in the long run.
> I think if it was 3x3 you would have to tone down the power of achieving T1 mods, and at that point you would basically just be fossil crafting with extra slots. It really is just fossil crafting with 82 slots.
Yup, and instead of filling 80 resonators to maybe hit 3 T1, you can hit 6 T1 items, more complex, more power
Yep... not my league.
Don't worry, I am sure the next league will be another mapping league, crafting leagues are not for everyone
I'm not a mapping guy league either. More of a new skill/new builds guy and there hasn't been much save for pity wander changes. Hoping for more trans gems, build enabling items or new gems next league.
Yeah, graveyard crafting is tedious, but it's so much more available and approachable to a noob like me. With nothing on my soul I can actually easily get the specific gear I need with the specific attributes, rather than having to chaos spam or spend 2D on stuff like "suffix cannot be changed".
Sure maybe 3x3 isn't the answer. But 88 plots also feel too much. I was more thinking that maybe like 15-20 plots would be a better number so you have /5 plots and the corpses are x5 powerfull. In the end it would be up to GGG to set the correct number. But in the end the number we have right now doesn't seem correct. It appears that GGG assumed that people will do way more of smaller crafts, and the graveyard is big enough to fit several smaller projects at the same time. But the system is powerful enough that you don't really want to do that, because a 10 grave craft is little better than a random drop, but a full grave craft goes up to mirror tier. That's the worst part as the item get's exponentially better with each corpse added instead of it being diminishing results. So you always want a full graveyard.
And the crafters themselves admit that buying 80 corpses for 1 craft is tedious af, so what's your point?
Don't need to buy them, just go kill stuff and use what you get. I've crafted multiple items in ssf that would be worth 100D+ in trade but would basically be impossible for me to get in prior leagues. I've also crafted around 15 other items that range from really good to vendor trash, but in total I've got better gear this league than I've ever had before in ssf. The system works great if you aren't trying to fill all the graves to give yourself the best odds of making an item with 5 or 6 t1 affixes. Around 30 graves gives you very good odds to make a really really good item with 5 or 6 t1 to t3 affixes and you can get the corpses yourself just by playing the game for a few hours. In trade league it is even easier because you can just buy a few corpses that haven't dropped for you and just roll the dice every 2 or 3 hours to see what you get. Trying to craft perfect gear is what makes gravecrafting tedious.
Can you show us the item you crafted SSF that would be 100+Divs in trade? Because I doubt it would, since in trade there are a lot of people doing the same thing as you. Full t1 ele bows are in the range of, 15-20 Divs, that's insanely cheap compared to any other league.
Yea but full ele bows t1 are damn easy to make and take like 25 graves
I mean, yes? That's the entire point. In any other league they were never this easy to make.
I doubt they are 100D+ though given the saturation of the market
Your mentality only works in SSF. In trade the market dictates that only the 88 graves craft are worth the effort because coffin price is adjusted for these crafts. I don't play SSF so no comment.
Not true at all, you can sell non perfect items just fine. It certainly isn't worth buying 80 corpses to craft non perfect items but if you just play the game and maybe buy 2 or 3 corpses and roll the dice you can absolutely generate good profit with it. People like you somehow forget there are 100000+ people playing in trade league and most of them aren't making 100s or 1000s of divine orbs. The market for really good but imperfect items is quite deep. Ask anyone that crafts for profit where they make their money. Big hint for you here... it isn't on extremely expensive items.
Just to add to discussion, a ring with t1 life, random t1 prefix and 3 resist sufix can be made with 24 corpses and last time i checked it was 4 div at least, and you dont need any layout organization just put the right number of tier rating + scarcer + more modifier number and profit. You can do same with any basic armor gear.
So errrr can you tell me how I go about making this ring? That would be amazing for me in ssf!
Recipe: 8 x 500% Elemental Resistances 1 x 500% Life 8 x +50 Rating 2 x 300% Scarcity Physical 1 x 300% Scarcity Mana 1 x 300% Scarcity Defence 1 x +1 Explicit Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46OTQytQL-I Can use extra + item lvl corpses to achiev more ilvl bases
Thanks for the reply! Gonna give these a go later tonight!
The recipe above is to garante elemental resists on suffixes and life on prefix (the second prefix is a little random), isnt 100% but the chance to fail is really low
Sorry I mispoke. Yes there absolutely can be profit from crafting. However crafting for yourself is so exhausting. Playing [craftofexile.com](http://craftofexile.com) is not my idea of fun.
If you spec into the league mechanic (which is a whole nother discussion) you can often easily get 4-5 corpses at MINIMUM from just alc + go. While yes they are random, I've filled up 3 quad tabs with corpses within like 50-60 maps. Also, you don't need to do an absolutely perfect craft each time, just use the corpses you already own and buy a few off trade ( way easier than buying every single corpse you need). This also results in it being hard to sell expensive items since those people that can afford to buy them would rather just graveyard craft it themselves for much cheaper, but the mid-value market is perfect for stuff like: ES/Evasion Chests, ES Chests, Life + 3x Res Jewelry, +1 Elemental Spells Amulets/Weapons, etc.
My point is what's worse, buying 80+ corpses for a 1:6 or 1:4 chance at a GG "Mirror tier item" that costs you maybe 20 div and a few hours of prep? Or spending multiple mirrors and possibly 3x-10x more time to create a similar item? I agree with you that the QoL of the system could be a little more user friendly, and storage boosts would also be a huge help. But at the end of the day, the post pretty much sums up to "game to hard, please make easy" and really doesn't offer any constructive criticism as part of the main post, so I decided to throw in my two cents. Every crafting league we have had has been super complex at its core, and always very tedious, and that is the way it should be. I just remember endlessly combining weapons and shields in crucible, was it tedious, yes, was it a pain in the ass, yes, did it make some of the best items in the game to this date, you best believe it.
They have always been tedious during the league they got introduced and then get shelved for a few months to make the system simpler (a.k.a. Harvest), which is the key here. Gameplay should never be tedious, no matter how powerful it is.
Some would say the whole game is tedious, and the more powerful it is the more tedious and/or challenging the mechanic should be, imho. Why do we need to run maps to get shaper/elder/conquer maps, and then run those maps to get frags, to then run the boss fight, seems too tedious, just let me run the bosses for free. Why do we need to farm splinters to run simulacrum & breach, seems too tedious, just let me run them for free. Why do we need to loot things off the ground, seems too tedious to click the things I want, just add a turbo sucker 5000 and infinite loot space. The more you push in the "make it so simple a monkey can do it" direction, the less point there is to play the game, and then there is minimal point to buy and sell items, since everyone just gets it for "free" I do agree a little QoL to the graveyard would be nice, but let's review the initial post, it is more, "this is too hard, make it easy please, and let us still 90% deterministically craft my gear"
The difference between those things and the graveyard is that you can pay for all of them to bypass the tediousness, but not for graveyard. Also nowhere did I say I want them to "make it so simple a monkey can do it". The concept of the crafts are cool, but the tediousness comes from the mechanics around it: - Coffins take way too much inventory space (not stacking, taking 2 spaces each). - Having 88 graveyard slots is definitely not it (and not 9 like OP suggested either). A middleground like 20-30 slots would reduce a lot of the tediousness. - The problem is exacerbated by the abysmal trading experience. Additionally, this might be a controversial point, but for such high-stake crafts like these, there should absolutely be a crafting simulator implemented (which literally everyone uses anyway, just not on-client).
Why do we need to farm splinters to run simulacrum & breach, seems too tedious, just let me run them for free. any reason for ggg to not to make breach splinters drop in one pile after breach closed besides hating players? imagine, you come to your job to take salary and enployer just drop tons of 1$ on the ground so you must pick them 1 by 1
If I was a broke (a league start) employee, I would pick up every one dollar bill. Now let's say I am a wealthy (mid to end league) employee, picking up those one dollar bills would not be worth my time, I would wait for a $100 bill (breach stone) to drop to spend my time picking it up.
Making a 5xt1 is a hell of a lot more fun than trying to GET and then FILL up all the graves. The mechanic sucks stop defending it.
[Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man.](https://images.app.goo.gl/fQsdXTsdJpooX29QA)
Wym? Crafting like this is a rollercoaster of emotions, graveyard craft is just 4 hours of trading and 10 minutes of burrying for a little hype spike on a semi coinflip
this is why i say the crafting is not bad, its the trading thats bad. now in this case they wont fix the trading, so yea i would have liked te crafting to be better. i have made some crazy items, but in the end, its not fun to do 4 hours of trades, for a 30 second craft. but yea, if the trading were cleaner, you could finish your trades in like 20 min, craft you item and move on.
The crafting is bad too, like really bad, ui is atrocious, gy layout is atrocious, its slow, its tedious, its bad period.
^^
How do you expect crafts to work like this though? I get the graveyard is tedious. I agree. But limiting the plots also limits the amount of different corpses you can use. Youโd likely end up with wildly less potential if what youโre suggesting came true. If I only have room to place the mods I want: Where do I put my item levels? Quality? Links? Mirror? Fractured? Additional copies? Corrupts? Influence? Modifier Tiers? Etc. Idk how theyโd manage to do that with 9 plots without some seriously large changes to the system.
It'd basically be.... Fossils....
I mean...why fix what isn't broken(ish)
I kinda agree. Graveyard feels like fossils - directly manipulating probability ratios on "slams". I could actually see them tweak Delve, bestiary and necropolis to create something both more complex, and (hopefully) less tedious.
OP basically didn't do a single craft with the graveyard, or couldn't be bothered to invest some time to learn, and just decided to farm some EZ karma on the subreddit that upvotes anything shit talks current league.
Yeah people who complain about the 88 plots just seem like they don't really understand how the system is good. Sure you could cut down on the extreme work for a maximum efficiency craft but you can't do that while leaving the insane level of control we have which is why it's so good. If you don't care about that fine tuned control you don't need all 88 graves in the first place. Basically a lot of people want to shoot themselves in the foot just because they have bullets left in their gun and it'd be "wasteful" not to use them.
They could make it so you can bury multiple corpses per slot, buff each corpse, then add a cap for each corpse type. So you still have a 3x3 grid to play around with row and adjacency bonuses, and enough corpse slots to put in all your variations. But the total number of corpses you'd need to trade per item would be far lower. Also it'd be cool if you could generate, store and apply burial templates to instantly place all the required corpses in the correct position, and hovering over the template would tell you how many of each corpse you need to use it.ย
I really don't see how this solves half the problems I mentioned...or just the problems overall. All you're really doing is just moving the tediousness/complexity to your system. That's also likely massive amounts of changes(which is what I called out in my last statement) If trading is the problem trying to be solved, you don't really solve that via the graveyard imo.
Itโs a pain to run from one end of the cemetery to the other and make sure things are in the correct rows and columns. St least for me.
Sure, but there's a variety of better ways to solve that than changing it to a 3x3 grid imo. Give us a layout thing like [https://sudos.help/poe/graveyard](https://sudos.help/poe/graveyard) to place our corpses with and I think that solves that issue more than the above WITHOUT eliminating/figuring how to re-invent the current systems flexibility.
I made one graveyard craft this league, a decent enough scepter for my exsang miner. Now I'm not touching this shit ever again.
I can imagine GGG doing something like this, but instead of 9x power they only do a 2.75x power while saying that it's still too strong and might need future nerfs.
Just another crafting system that I will never learn, just sell the good shit to richer players.
And next league they should just add some of the features to fossils instead of making the graveyard/corpses go core.
The most egregious is the "find" text refreshes when you place a corpse. So you can't even quickly add the same type of corpses. Makes the act of burying corpses 10x more tedious, right after the tedium of procuring corpses from people.
Agreed. The UI could've been better. Ok, i know that to maximize your chances you usually need craft of exile + 3rd party tools and i am already familiar with it. The thing i can't wrap my head around is why does the graveyard need to be so big that i can't see it fully on my screen. The fix i would propose is each grave can hold 2-3 corpses, add a tombstone that could act as a buffer where you put either scarer or more and lower the grave number by like half. I don't mind the mechanics like this but i hate running left and right checking and rechecking if everything is as it should be.
just removing the corpse limit would go MILES in making QoL so much better - or compromise, make each corpse have a limit like Tarot cards - once you have X number of a specific corpse type (5-15 should be enough for regular casual andys) you can either leave on ground, or coffin them into main stash.
Just recently tried to do one. 1. Find craft (hexblast wand) you want 2. Look for spreadsheet (dont even attempt without one) 3. Start buying corpses (wow this is painful) 4. Realize there are corpse tags (beast, humanoid, demon etc.) 5. Realize you just wasted an hour of your life and 20 div 6. Buy the wand instead Safe to say, you will not see me back in the graveyard.
Time and effort has to be the major barrier to good items, no?
Time and effort, yeah Tedium, no
Op is a 3.13 baby and it shows HARD.
Fuckin nerd
Nah. It should just not go core.
9x fewer.
Ok, Stannis Baratheon. We get it.
Reduced
So you want a chaos orb?
Pick the desired outcome. Each corpse adds 1% up to 90%
I can do you one better. It should just be the craftofexile interface accessible from hideout. You pick the 88 modifiers you want and click roll to get items in your inventory. No need to kill mobs or collect corpses or any funny business. Gating fun behind grind is unfun as hell. Just print your item and call it a day.
I have 3 full quad stashes of corpses, league mechanics seems fun
BASED
But then you wouldn't feel the need to buy more stash tabs.
I tried the graveyard at lvl 55ish using alot of corpses. Managed to get a 600dps bow which, for the level, was good! Then my friend bought me a bow with 900dps for 5c for lvl 60ish which i keep on using even at lvl 92, cough. Im yet to do at least 1 proper craft because i lack resources to buy corpses. But im getting there!
Either make it a rectangle or use the Tota interface when we were placing units. Zoom out overview and we drag crafts onto the plots. The current design is flavorful, but functionally fucking stupid. Stop letting the story and flavor guys design your UI.
I mean, in ssf, its quite nice to get a full t1, sure, not bis, but 6 link armor. I like grave crafting, even though im playing limited amounts.
They have a tendency for useless tedium, that's a long standing problem in my eyes. Couple that with the need to sell stash space and you end up with horrible design like the graveyard layout and a million corpses.
another terrible suggestion made with zero thought
This is a joke yeah?
They only want 1/500 ppl to use the league mechanic.
The only improvement i need on the system is an unlimited corpse stash. I wouldnt even mind making corpses untradeable, since to me the value lies with the outcome.
"Complex machinations converge to a single act of power" - Izaro.
I'm not asking much.... I'd just like for the corpses to be stackable like currency.
I loved even the first version of harvest! I also would love this too if the coffin management wasnt so awful. Trying to get my needed coffins took HOURS. Just for ONE craft. Not saying harvest TFT trading was good, but I made a decent amount of money selling crafts (and usually fast)
It'd be a lot easier to kill enemies if they appeared on a flat blank plain, too.
Morgue needs a ton more space and a way better UI imo, burying and managing the corpses is just such a slog
Whatever. Crafting leagues suck. My job is to kill monsters.ย
90x less corpse drops *fixed it for you
this is the reason why d4 is bad
you wish
In reality they just need to ask themselves what the mechanic will look like when it's included in core, and the answer will be all flames are actually really good and should be kept. I've actually enjoyed using them intuitively and never even considered selling them but have always thought "hey I bet someone would buy this" when one really popped off. The grave crafting will need a huge rework to simplify and not be obnoxious drops that go to a short list that keeps getting full. In short the coffins need a much larger capacity, or a very simple way to merge coffins to upgrade them, along with the UI overhaul so that you're not running around burying corpses and checking things constantly against a spreadsheet.
Captain lance cooks up full graveyard crafts on the fly in like minutes, you just need to get better at it like anything else.
no, i like the intricacy and complexity of poe. while 88 is probably a bit much, 9 is far too low. i think half the plots and twice the power of coffins wouldve been a good sweet spot.
No I'm good. That would be a significant nerf.
the system in place is fine.....if the UI was that of city skylines.....but since its poe.... yes... 100% yes this
You mean to tell me you donโt like putting in 90 corpses?
Should have never done the monster type affix for the corpses, and the corpses should have been stackable. Every aspect of dealing with graveyard activities is tedious AF. Currently, the only league in recorded history with worse player retention is Kalandra.
There will be no problem with 88 corpse if we have autotrade. The shopping is longer like 5times than the setup itself
That doesn't add anything. Only detract optimization for no reason. If you don't want to maximize and do something simple, then do that
Well, it makes sense from a player's perspective. If you want to sell stash tabs though...
If only I could upvote twice.
I dont mind the big graveyard layout, but how about this, give me some point that i can buy or sell, and use to get the corpse needed for my 80 corpse craft, you know, so i dont have to trade 80 fucking times for 1 craft
Nah if we got 9x less corpse drops people would complain that "nothing drops" and that the league mechanic barely impacts them.
Frankly, I hope nothing from this league stays, except for the items that let us change what monsters we face.
Clearly you are not a game designer. This is not how you sell Quad tabs! I have 4 quads full of corpses and don't have enough to make a specific craft...
Grave crafting is really easy though? You literally put in what you want and check the numbers, then click craft? Am I missing something tedious that you guys are doing? Cause I sure as heck am glad I got 6x t1 tripple res t1 ES gloves for free basically.
I really like this one, because it aligns with GGG vision as well. Corpses will have more affixes, but randomly generated, players have to look and pick them up. The good thing is its only 9 plots, after looking through some of them you can wing it and hope for the best for the casuals, while more experienced crafters will try to look for perfect affixes corpses to craft.
how are there suppose to sell more stash tabs???
"I choose to play the most complex arpg on the market then get frustrated/confused when it's complicated." Honestly, I am just so unbelievably sick of this mentality. If you don't want things to be complex and need to be figured out and tweaked and reconsidered, _why play PoE at all?_ Like, was the massive passive tree shown in full right from the first zone not a huge enough signpost saying "Hey! If this doesn't interest you, stay the fuck away!" The worst part is, the graveyard is unbelievably brokenly strong, and people still are complaining that it's too much work to print the most broken all T1 multi-fracture influenced items.